Civil War: Whos side are you on?

[supermarvelman]

Just because they already did it doesn't mean they cant do it again especially since they retconned it, this would be a much better way to kill off the old bag, I would all be because Peter revealed himself, something Aunt May herself wanted him to do, it would be ironic. MJ also pushed him to do it against his own judgement, there would be a lot of resentment built up between Peter and MJ.

How exactly did they kill her the first time around?

[Colossal Spoons]

S.H.I.E.L.D. really should offer some kind of Superhero Protection Program for all the heroes that comply and reveal their identities. They're not stupid, they know that villains will pounce on the opportunity to hit a hero where it hurts...his/her family.

[DOOM2099]

I'm on with G'Nort!!!!!!

[Dread]

Just because they already did it doesn't mean they cant do it again especially since they retconned it, this would be a much better way to kill off the old bag, I would all be because Peter revealed himself, something Aunt May herself wanted him to do, it would be ironic.

How exactly did they kill her the first time around?
She died of heart/age related issues in ASM #400. She passed on in a hospital after giving Peter a heartfelt farewell, including that she knew he was Spider-Man and was proud of him. This was in the midst of the Clone Saga stuff, though (almost immediately afterwards, Peter was arrested for murders Kaine committed, because they had the same fingerprints). But I could be off.

The loss of "the old female mentor" figure in the books was immediately felt, and MJ's Aunt Anna was trucked in to fill the gap. It obviously didn't work, because Mackie "revived" Aunt May shortly after "Revelations" (that brought back Norman Osborn and kick-started his "responsible for every evil act ever committed upon Spider-Man from now until the end of all recorded time" incarnation). He claimed that Norman secretly kidnapped May and held her captive while "an actress" who was modified to the point that even Peter was fooled impersonated May for some reason, and it was the actress who died. Definately not a high point.

The Kicker? After going through all that to revive her, May proceeded to do absolutely nothing worthwhile until JMS came along. Despite all his mistakes on ASM, revving up May's character was one of the positives of his run.

[supermarvelman]

Marvel already tried killing May once; Mackie pulled a major retcon to undo it, and JMS admittedly did well with May as a character some years since. So I doubt it.

Spider-Man's concern over the fate of his family was the major drawback of him revealing himself (or even registering to begin with). As stated, it is a bit of a shame that CW seems to hypocritically state that heroes who obey the law and register with the government are STILL hypocrites unless they just completely "come out", despite the fact that undercover cops, spy agents, and covert ops are a fact of life in the real world, and mostly are accepted. Still, Spider-Man's supposed to go through a ringer here, so his family may become at least threatened by it.

Plus, he has more people to care about than MJ or May. How about Betty Brant? Flash Thompson? Liz Allen? Heck, maybe Debra Whitman blows her brains out after calling it years ago and believing herself crazy. Or whatever. There's other "shock value" options that a bloodthirsty Marvel or Millar could pursue aside for killing MJ or May, something I doubt Marvel wants to do (especially with SPIDER-MAN 3 under a year away).

Well Cyclops is still alive and so is Prof X and the movie just came out, so in the end as much as you disagree I really dont think it matters what happens in the comics. Eddie Brock isnt even Venom but he will be in the movies so I dont think it matters.

[supermarvelman]

She died of heart/age related issues in ASM #400. She passed on in a hospital after giving Peter a heartfelt farewell, including that she knew he was Spider-Man and was proud of him. This was in the midst of the Clone Saga stuff, though (almost immediately afterwards, Peter was arrested for murders Kaine committed, because they had the same fingerprints). But I could be off.

The loss of "the old female mentor" figure in the books was immediately felt, and MJ's Aunt Anna was trucked in to fill the gap. It obviously didn't work, because Mackie "revived" Aunt May shortly after "Revelations" (that brought back Norman Osborn and kick-started his "responsible for every evil act ever committed upon Spider-Man from now until the end of all recorded time" incarnation). He claimed that Norman secretly kidnapped May and held her captive while "an actress" who was modified to the point that even Peter was fooled impersonated May for some reason, and it was the actress who died. Definately not a high point.

The Kicker? After going through all that to revive her, May proceeded to do absolutely nothing worthwhile until JMS came along. Despite all his mistakes on ASM, revving up May's character was one of the positives of his run.

So pretty much it was kinda pointless and stupid way to kill her off, I wouldnt have added crap to the character of Spider-man. But if she was killed because of Peter's dicicions in CW, it would add a lot to his character. Wasnt most of the Clone Saga stuff retconned?

[samurai black]

For my money? A "major arrest" is supposed to take place, and I'm calling it on Capt. America. I hope I'm wrong, though, because I would like to be surprised by Marvel for a change (and not in a bad way).

Although it's the obvious choice, it's the one that makes the most sense sotry wise. IfCap does get arrested, he may become somewhat of a matyr for the cause. If that happens, it could be the straw that broke the camel's back and gets Spider-man to change sides and possibly lead the resistance which would totally be the **** IMHO.

[Dread]

Well Cyclops is still alive and so is Prof X and the movie just came out, so in the end as much as you disagree I really dont think it matters what happens in the comics. Eddie Brock isnt even Venom but he will be in the movies so I dont think it matters.
Actually, Marvel's releasing a sequal to PHOENIX ENDSONG in the X-books that detailed art that looked a lot like stuff that happened in X3 (although many of us figured it was likely a dream or illusionary sequence).

As for Eddie Brock, now that SPIDER-MAN 3 is in the works, Marvel's editorial dept. is denying his "official" death from MKSM and playing coy. Meanwhile, the Gargan-Venom is set to show up in BEYOND!, and some people are guessing that BEYOND! could be used to seperate Gargan from the symbiote and launch a possible return of Brock as Venom. This is all pure speculation, but some of the pieces are in play.

[Dread]

So pretty much it was kinda pointless and stupid way to kill her off, I wouldnt have added crap to the character of Spider-man. But if she was killed because of Peter's dicicions in CW, it would add a lot to his character. Wasnt most of the Clone Saga stuff retconned?
More of it has been ignored and omitted than retconned. Norman was revealed to be responsible for a good deal of it, but some of the other niggling plot-points, such as Kaine, the "lost baby" or even Peter acting like he'd just lost a brother to death (Ben Rielly was like a brother to him when he was killed by Osborn) is usually forgotten and officially "ixnay" to mention because Marvel wants to distance itself from that maligned storyline.

[supermarvelman]

Actually, Marvel's releasing a sequal to PHOENIX ENDSONG in the X-books that detailed art that looked a lot like stuff that happened in X3 (although many of us figured it was likely a dream or illusionary sequence).

As for Eddie Brock, now that SPIDER-MAN 3 is in the works, Marvel's editorial dept. is denying his "official" death from MKSM and playing coy. Meanwhile, the Gargan-Venom is set to show up in BEYOND!, and some people are guessing that BEYOND! could be used to seperate Gargan from the symbiote and launch a possible return of Brock as Venom. This is all pure speculation, but some of the pieces are in play.

True they do have a whole year to get the symbiote back to Brock.

[Dread]

Although it's the obvious choice, it's the one that makes the most sense sotry wise. IfCap does get arrested, he may become somewhat of a matyr for the cause. If that happens, it could be the straw that broke the camel's back and gets Spider-man to change sides and possibly lead the resistance which would totally be the **** IMHO.
Very possible. The arrest would most likely deliver more punch to the storyline that the one mentioned in ULTIMATES 2 #9, almost to the point of the repetition being worthwhile. Some could argue, "Why NOT repeat yourself if you do it right the next time?" Unfortunately, this arguement results in comic companies repeating many of their mistakes every few years. But it could work in CW, as you stated.

[Image]

I'm on Cap's side and I wan't Spidey to be too! lol

[Colossal Spoons]

In time, I guess.

[SpideyInATree]

I haven't read # 2 yet but when I picked it up yesterday I had to AT LEAST look through it.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My 13 year wish has finally come true!!!! I had to freakin' pinch myself in the comic shop to make sure that I was seeing what I was seeing!!! My reaction was almost like JJJ's reaction!!!!! HAHA!!

Holy crap. I knew it was happening and in this issue...but it is still an awesome feeling and such an exciting thing! Man, I cannot wait to see what the other reactions to this are going to be! I wonder what JJJ is going to say when he wakes up, hahahaha!!!

That cover to # 5 confuses the hell out of me though. Spidey reveals his ID and they put Green Goblin and Venom on the cover? :confused:

The two rogues that have KNOWN Spider-Man was Peter Parker for a REALLY LONG TIME!!

Why not have it be Electro, who recently got his ass owned by the New Avengers, or Doctor Octopus? Those two would probably be really fired up about it too. And what the hell is Bullseye doing there? I thought that he was in jail! :eek:

I'm guessing that some crazy stuff is gonna go down in Daredevil for Bullseye to be out, which means there must be prison breaks or something....or Marvel flubbed their continuity....AGAIN!

But, man, I am so freakin' happy and excited about this. I've waited for this moment for 13 god damn years and I'm relishing every last damn second of it. And they actually have done it in a rather well done manner too, which surprises the hell out of me too. :up:

Kudos to the boys at Marvel for doing this though, especially JMS and Quesada who get torn apart daily on these boards. I may not like Quesada very much as an editor in chief...or as a person...but he's made a lot of ballsy decisions for Spider-Man. Most of them have been horrible for the character and the fans...but this is something I can respect them for. All the criticism that they take and the outrage that they've faced...they still step up and are doing something new and interesting with Spider-Man. I think it's right they get SOME kind of credit. Instead of being called names by faceless people on the Internet who wouldn't have the guts to say any of this stuff to his face.

But, definitely an exciting time to be reading Spider-Man! And if you dropped the titles because of the unmasking...well, you're loss. Because this is probably going to be one of the most exciting times to be a Spider-Man reader.

[deemar325]

I'm happy for you SpideyTree.

[jaydawg]

God damn, why is every other response about why GG and Venom are on the cover? I should make a thread just to say why so people can stop asking!!

[SpideyInATree]

God damn, why is every other response about why GG and Venom are on the cover? I should make a thread just to say why so people can stop asking!!

Because Spider-Man reveals his identity to the world and the two villains they put on the cover afterward are the two that have ALREADY KNOWN! :eek:

[Anubis]

Should have been some opportunistic douche like Electro or Doc Ock.

[SpideyInATree]

Should have been some opportunistic douche like Electro or Doc Ock.

Exactly. The villains who DON'T KNOW who he is and would piss them off when they found out.

Would make a LITTLE more sense.

Though Goblin I understand a little more because he'd be pissed off that his little secret over Pete's head would be rendered useless.

[Anubis]

You know what would really be cool? If GOblin actually was there to help Pete. Like, nobody is gonna off Spidey except the Green Goblin, and he aint finished f**king up his life yet.

[Tropico]

was that Mimic in the last page of Thunderbolts this week?

Yes, it look like him to me. There were also a couple of villains from the New Warriors which I guess Fabe had sneaked in there.;):D

[SpideyInATree]

You know what would really be cool? If GOblin actually was there to help Pete. Like, nobody is gonna off Spidey except the Green Goblin, and he aint finished f**king up his life yet.

That actually WOULD be kinda cool. And it would make sense. But by the looks of the cover that's not what it looks like, heh.

But it would be cool as hell and definitely an interesting team up.

[The Joker]

Exactly. The villains who DON'T KNOW who he is and would piss them off when they found out.

Would make a LITTLE more sense.

Though Goblin I understand a little more because he'd be pissed off that his little secret over Pete's head would be rendered useless.

Exactly. The two villains who do know his identity now no longer have that little threat over him. Spider-Man's secret life is open game to all of them. So it is natural that GG and Venom [though it should be Brock not Gargan] react first. The others need to time to let it sink in and plan something.

Though I hope they don't dwell on those two for too long. I want to see the other villain's reactions, especially Ock's.

That's about the only good thing to come out of this, seeing everyone's reaction.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd like to see Doc Ock's reaction too, considering he unmasked Peter before pretty much anyone else and got laughed at for it.

[The Leaguer]

He's used to being laughed at. He's fat.

[Anubis]

I'd like to see Doc Ock's reaction too, considering he unmasked Peter before pretty much anyone else and got laughed at for it.

Plus he could say he banged Spideys Aunt may. In da butt.

[Artistsean]

What if Civil War, in terms of Spider-Man, comes down to Peter having to kill to protect his family?
After trying to hide his family, running with them from attacks, and trying to defend himself and them, what if it comes down to Peter having to actually murder someone with his bare hands?

[Anubis]

If you think the fanboys are in a rage now.......

[TheCorpulent1]

I might drop the Spider-Man books altogether. Having Peter finally, intentionally kill someone after 40 years of steering clear of that, on top of the fact that his stories have been sucking in general lately, would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'd pull out, go into Spidey withdrawal like I did for the Clone Saga, and come back when things are better.

[The Leaguer]

If you think the fanboys are in a rage now.......
What? Are you going to give them noogies and Indian burns?

[TheCorpulent1]

Indian burns ****ing suck. :(

[Anubis]

probably just a shot in the crotch.

[SpideyInATree]

Exactly. The two villains who do know his identity now no longer have that little threat over him. Spider-Man's secret life is open game to all of them. So it is natural that GG and Venom [though it should be Brock not Gargan] react first. The others need to time to let it sink in and plan something.

Though I hope they don't dwell on those two for too long. I want to see the other villain's reactions, especially Ock's.

That's about the only good thing to come out of this, seeing everyone's reaction.

But I still don't understand why Bullseye is there though. He's in jail in Daredevil. So, obviously there is going to be some kind of jailbreak I figure. But why would Bullseye want to go after Spider-Man? Shouldn't they have drawn Doc Ock in there? Green Goblin, Venom, and Doc Ock is a little more frightening. :o And would definitely call for the Iron Spidey costume to be shredded and destroyed. :up:

[The Leaguer]

probably just a shot in the crotch.
Of what? Pencillin? That would be pretty cool, because I have this rash that just won't go away.

[TheCorpulent1]

You've gotta lay off the midgets, man.

[Artistsean]

Well now that Spider-Man has revealed his real identity to the world, and now that every villian (whether they are spider-villians or not) are going to go after him, and Peter would do anything to protect his family.
Something is going to happen.

[The Leaguer]

You've gotta lay off the midgets, man.
I can't. I have an addiction. I need help.

[The Joker]

Plus he could say he banged Spideys Aunt may. In da butt.

Jarvis would be more annoyed by that than Spider-Man :o ;)

But I still don't understand why Bullseye is there though. He's in jail in Daredevil. So, obviously there is going to be some kind of jailbreak I figure. But why would Bullseye want to go after Spider-Man? Shouldn't they have drawn Doc Ock in there? Green Goblin, Venom, and Doc Ock is a little more frightening. :o And would definitely call for the Iron Spidey costume to be shredded and destroyed. :up:

Yeah, Bullseye does seem out of place there. Why would he care?? He hardly has that many grudges against Spidey. Ock would have been more appropriate. Heck any Spidey villain would have.

Just wait til the other villains react, then the s*** will really hit the fan :up:

[Tropico]

But I still don't understand why Bullseye is there though. He's in jail in Daredevil. So, obviously there is going to be some kind of jailbreak I figure. But why would Bullseye want to go after Spider-Man? Shouldn't they have drawn Doc Ock in there? Green Goblin, Venom, and Doc Ock is a little more frightening. :o And would definitely call for the Iron Spidey costume to be shredded and destroyed. :up:

This week's Thunderbolts has a probable answer to your question.

[Anubis]

Of what? Pencillin? That would be pretty cool, because I have this rash that just won't go away.

How many times do I have to tell you, stay away from those hooker girly dudes.

[TheCorpulent1]

I can't. I have an addiction. I need help.
I'd offer it, but your endless parade of diseases is too funny to let go.

[Artistsean]

Bullseye is probably there as a hired assassin by someone.

What if Green Goblin sort of protects Spider-Man from some attacks, sort of like no one else gets to kill him but me.
Norman Osbourne is very obsessive and likes to see Peter suffer at his hands, maybe he would get upset that other villians were getting the chance to kill Peter.

[The Leaguer]

How many times do I have to tell you, stay away from those hooker girly dudes.
I moved on, now I am tortured by the burning desire for midgets.

And I do mean "burning."

[Tropico]

burnin? gonorreah?!?!?!?:eek:

[Anubis]

burnin? gonorreah?!?!?!?:eek:

Worse, Crotch rot

[The Leaguer]

Partly.

[SpideyInATree]

This week's Thunderbolts has a probable answer to your question.

I don't read Thunderbolts. I'm guessing that they break out Bullseye or something, or someone does.

If they do, that's poop because Daredevil is freakin' awesome. You've got Kingpin, Hammerhead, Black Tarantula, Bullseye, and Daredevil all in the same prison. Talk about kick ass drama. It's like Daredevil: Oz.

[Tropico]

Thunderbolt Spoiler! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/DDude/t-bolts-1.jpg)

[Ikaris-Eternal]

cool spoiler from t-bolts

[Ikaris-Eternal]

blahblah

[The Leaguer]

Is it a cool spoiler?

[Tropico]

YES!:up: The Eternal Ikaris said so!:D

[Artistsean]

OK, I'm starting to really think that Tony Stark is being mind controlled.

[Anubis]

Wouldn't be the first time.

[TheCorpulent1]

It would still be lame, though. Honestly, look at the Armor Wars and some of the other stuff he pulled on the West Coast Avengers. This really isn't that far out of character for him, especially given how the registration act is polarizing everything. Tony's always been a colossal douche.

[The Leaguer]

Maybe he's drunk.

[Tropico]

Or hasn't gotten any in a while. Jessica left him hangin'.:o:eek:

[Eric Draven]

Could it be Extremis? :confused:

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe he's drunk.
I would laugh for three weeks straight if that were true.

[Deathlok2001]

Or hasn't gotten any in a while. Jessica left him hangin'.:o:eek:

LMFAO :up:

[Artistsean]

What exactly is Extremis?
I haven't been buying those.

I'm just thinking they shouldn't really be making him the big villian in this whole thing since he is currently being made into a movie as we speak.
You don't want people coming in to think the star of the movie is a big douche.

[Marcdachamp]

It would still be lame, though. Honestly, look at the Armor Wars and some of the other stuff he pulled on the West Coast Avengers. This really isn't that far out of character for him, especially given how the registration act is polarizing everything. Tony's always been a colossal douche.
I don't see him being douchy here. Maria Hill? Oh, HUGE douche. But Tony? He's doing what he thinks is right, and I think JMS and Millar have done a great job of showing that. Tony isn't sitting in Stark Tower on a massive throne plotting world domination; he's trying to continue helping the world while working alongside SHIELD.

[supermarvelman]

I don't read Thunderbolts. I'm guessing that they break out Bullseye or something, or someone does.

If they do, that's poop because Daredevil is freakin' awesome. You've got Kingpin, Hammerhead, Black Tarantula, Bullseye, and Daredevil all in the same prison. Talk about kick ass drama. It's like Daredevil: Oz.

You should read Thunderbolts its a good comic.

[supermarvelman]

Bullseye is probably gonna comlpy and help the government. I think a lot of villians will take advantage of the registration.

[Artistsean]

I think the villians helping, whihc would be a good idea to add that in, will eventually blow up in the face of the government and only strengthen the superheroes case.

[iceberg325]

I think the villians helping, whihc would be a good idea to add that in, will eventually blow up in the face of the government and only strengthen the superheroes case.

Exactly.

[3dman27]

Could it be Extremis? :confused:
the extremis enhancement COULD be warping tony's personality at that

[daveswb]

Is this turning into a "The Government is Evil" Story?

Think about it? Recruiting bad guys?

Having heroes reveal them selves in public (yet they don't have to). which will only lead to negative repurcussions, they already promoting Spidey is going to get some bad beat downs for taking off his mask.

The fact that they wouldn't take Spider-man's testimony into record because he had on a mask.

Hinting at the fact that the event was planned and not an accident.

Also the fact that no one is concentrating on the actual cause of the event and really going after the guy that did it. Well one hero is, why the rest of the avengers aren't going after him is beyond me.

I also found it odd that they made the presidnet actually look like the president. I know they ocassionally do this, but in most cases they artist does this for the purpose of making a political statement.

The story is definetly a political statement. It feels like a commentary on the war in Iraq and how people become divided over what is going on. Look at Sue and Reed Richards. A lot of husbands and wives disagreed on the war.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't have an issue with using comics to make a political statment. That is what art is for a lot of times. What Im against is making the characters act so contridictary to thier normal behavior just to make the statement bigger.

[Spectre722]

no its turning into a government is stupid story, stupid for thinking they can pull this off.

[hippie_hunter]

Is this turning into a "The Government is Evil" Story?
Unfortunately yes. Take a look at who is the writer: Mark Millar, who is definetly a liberal. An Irish one by the way. Or is he Scottish, I can't remember.

Think about it? Recruiting bad guys?
No, the Pro-Registration just wants more Thunderbolts. Now that the superhero community is split right down the middle, the bad guys would be a problem. And there's a lot of bad guys. If you convert some of the bad guys into Thunderbolts/somewhat good guys then the problem of bad guys would be lifted somewhat.

Having heroes reveal them selves in public (yet they don't have to). which will only lead to negative repurcussions, they already promoting Spidey is going to get some bad beat downs for taking off his mask.

The fact that they wouldn't take Spider-man's testimony into record because he had on a mask.

Hinting at the fact that the event was planned and not an accident.

Also the fact that no one is concentrating on the actual cause of the event and really going after the guy that did it. Well one hero is, why the rest of the avengers aren't going after him is beyond me.

I also found it odd that they made the presidnet actually look like the president. I know they ocassionally do this, but in most cases they artist does this for the purpose of making a political statement.

The story is definetly a political statement. It feels like a commentary on the war in Iraq and how people become divided over what is going on. Look at Sue and Reed Richards. A lot of husbands and wives disagreed on the war.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't have an issue with using comics to make a political statment. That is what art is for a lot of times. What Im against is making the characters act so contridictary to thier normal behavior just to make the statement bigger.

The rest I have to agree with.

[thor87]

even though millar is very politically inclined in his writing, i havent felt that he has pushed us to one side or another, he has made the case for both sides and they are fairly compelling.

[deemar325]

I might drop the Spider-Man books altogether. Having Peter finally, intentionally kill someone after 40 years of steering clear of that, on top of the fact that his stories have been sucking in general lately, would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'd pull out, go into Spidey withdrawal like I did for the Clone Saga, and come back when things are better.


Everyone has their limits.

[deemar325]

the extremis enhancement COULD be warping tony's personality at that

That's a possibility.

[Eros]

i know i would be mad if a bunch of washed up former teenaged superheroes caused the death of many kids and adults alike. it would be if the new warrior caused 9/11 "excidently". i kind of agree with the goverment, i would hunt down all heroes and villains alike.

[gildea]

Unfortunately yes. Take a look at who is the writer: Mark Millar, who is definetly a liberal. An Irish one by the way. Or is he Scottish, I can't remember.


He's scottish.

Why does that have any bearing on the matter?

[SpideyInATree]

OK, I'm starting to really think that Tony Stark is being mind controlled.

Sort of. In the opening of the new Iron Man series Warren Ellis wrote the first arc called "Extremis". Basically to stop the bad guy infected with the Extremis virus, Tony elected to have it injected into himself as well.

When you've seen Tony controlling all the Iron Man units with his mind, that's the Extremis virus allowing him to do that.

It's been hinted at that the Extremis virus or something is messing with Iron Man, because he hasn't really been acting like himself lately.

Even in the latest story arc in his own title there is some crazy stuff going on with Tony and people are starting to get suspicious.

[deemar325]

He's scottish.

Why does that have any bearing on the matter?

I have no idea.

[supermarvelman]

I would almost gaurantee that it is extremis that is influencing Tony to act out of character and a lot more brash.

[SpideyInATree]

Me too. It's going to take it's toll on him.

[supermarvelman]

But I still think Tony believes in the registration, and would be on the registration side no matter what, he's just a lot more aggressive than he would've been. Look how he's been acting in the New Avengers, Amazing Spider-man, and Invincible Ironman in the last couple issues.

I dont want him to somehow get rid of Extremis though.

[deemar325]

Me too. It's going to take it's toll on him.

Then it's a cop-out.

[supermarvelman]

How's it a cop-out?

[deemar325]

How's it a cop-out?

It's a way to absolve Tony of his actions.

[supermarvelman]

But I still think Tony believes in the registration, and would be on the registration side no matter what, he's just a lot more aggressive than he would've been. Look how he's been acting in the New Avengers, Amazing Spider-man, and Invincible Ironman in the last couple issues.

I dont want him to somehow get rid of Extremis though.

Tony would still be making the same dicisions, even w/o extremis, he's just more aggresive with extremis, I dont think thats a cop-out, but thats just my opinion.

[SpideyInATree]

I don't look at it like a cop out either. If you've been reading the Iron Man title then you'll see for yourself that something is up and has been up with Tony. It's something that's been building for a long time too.

If this was something that Tony just had in himself for a few months, yeah I might consider it a cop out.

But this Extremis thing has been around for a while now.

[Darthphere]

I don't look at it like a cop out either. If you've been reading the Iron Man title then you'll see for yourself that something is up and has been up with Tony. It's something that's been building for a long time too.

If this was something that Tony just had in himself for a few months, yeah I might consider it a cop out.

But this Extremis thing has been around for a while now.


Wanda went crazy before, so thats been around, doesnt mean when bendis used it it wasnt a cop out.;)

[supermarvelman]

It's like if you had strong views on something like the government but you never really fully expressed those views, then oneday something lights a fire under your ass and you say these are my views whether you like them or not i'm expressing them no matter what you think, even if your my friend. Get what I'm saying.

Example: Lets say your okay with gay marriages but NONE of yours friends are, they're totally against it, so you never really express your view, you just kinda play along with there views. One day you say the fire gets lit under your ass and you express your views.

[supermarvelman]

I dont think what Wanda did was a cop-out either. Quicksilver had a big influence on what she did. It wasn't just her being a nut-ball.

[Darthphere]

I dont think what Wanda did was a cop-out either. Quicksilver had a big influence on what she did. It wasn't just her being a nut-ball.


Yeah, "Your honor, I didnt want to kill the guy, my brother told me to do it." Lets see how that holds up in court.

[Norman Osborn]

I don't look at it like a cop out either. If you've been reading the Iron Man title then you'll see for yourself that something is up and has been up with Tony. It's something that's been building for a long time too.

If this was something that Tony just had in himself for a few months, yeah I might consider it a cop out.

But this Extremis thing has been around for a while now.

Although I agree Extremis is going to play a big part in Civil War, it will appear to be a cop-out to anyone who doesn't read Iron Man as these people have no idea what it is, what it does etc....

[supermarvelman]

No kidding, if I pull the trigger technically I'm the guilty party, but that doesnt mean somebody couldn't influence me and get away with it.

[supermarvelman]

Although I agree Extremis is going to play a big part in Civil War, it will appear to be a cop-out to anyone who doesn't read Iron Man as these people have no idea what it is, what it does etc....

Well thats there fault for not reading Ironman, so really it isnt a cop-out, it only SEEMS like a cop-out if you dont read Ironman.

[SpideyInATree]

Wanda went crazy before, so thats been around, doesnt mean when bendis used it it wasnt a cop out.;)

I don't really see much of a comparison to Wanda's event and the Extremis virus in Iron Man. But, whatever, heh.

[Darthphere]

Although I agree Extremis is going to play a big part in Civil War, it will appear to be a cop-out to anyone who doesn't read Iron Man as these people have no idea what it is, what it does etc....


I know exactly what it is, its still a cop put. Heres the way I see it, it pretty much absolves Tony of any repsonsibility he has over the whole thing. "Dont blame Tony it was the Extremis" is a lame excuse even if it has been set up to be that. Its like what DC did with Hal Jordan pretty much saying oh it was the yellow impurity monster, not Hal. So what happens, Hal doesnt have to face up to anything and is now an extremely boring and generic character.

[Darthphere]

I don't really see much of a comparison to Wanda's event and the Extremis virus in Iron Man. But, whatever, heh.


Well you mentioned how the Extremis virus has been set up so it wouldnt be like they just made it up. Its the same with Wanda's sanity or lack thereof. Furthermore it was meant to push your buttons hince the ;) smiley.

[SpideyInATree]

Although I agree Extremis is going to play a big part in Civil War, it will appear to be a cop-out to anyone who doesn't read Iron Man as these people have no idea what it is, what it does etc....

So, Marvel finally gives people some story and interest...and nobody wants to read it? Heh.

I don't see how that would qualify it as a cop out simply because some people didn't read Iron Man. Well, I'll let them borrow my issues if that's what needs to be done, haha.

Or they could all do what they plan to do and read the comics for free at the shop.

[supermarvelman]

How would that hold up in court buddy.

Dont blame me blame Extremis.

Dont blame me it was the Yellow Impurity.

I didn't pull the trigger it was the voices in my head.

[Darthphere]

How would that hold up in court buddy.

Dont blame me blame Extremis.

Dont blame me it was the Yellow Impurity.


I used the Extremis as a way of getting out of a traffic ticket.

[supermarvelman]

See to me the difference is that Hal Jordan would've never made those dicisions in the fisrt place if he wasnt possesed by Parallax. But a lot of people in the DC universe still think it was all Hal who did what he did.

Tony Stark would've made these dicisions without Extremis, but like i said it just makes him more brash and aggressive

[Trask]

Why is everyone acting like Tony Stark has done anything wrong in Civil War. I mean what has he really done that is wrong? The way I see it, he has done nothing wrong. I mean if following the law and encouraging others to do so is a sin then you might as well point your finger at ever law abiding citizen. It is not as if the registration act was his idea. He is just a man tring to do the best he can in a bad situation while tring to minimise the death and distruction that is sure to follow. He is just a realist that knows that things dont always turn out the way you wish or the way they are meant to be.

From what I have seen so far, he has nothing to feel sorry or apologise for, if you belive different then tell me what he has done that has got everyone so pissed off.

[SpideyInATree]

Why is everyone acting like Tony Stark has done anything wrong in Civil War. I mean what has he really done that is wrong? The way I see it, he has done nothing wrong. I mean if following the law and encouraging others to do so is a sin then you might as well point your finger at ever law abiding citizen. It is not as if the registration act was his idea. He is just a man tring to do the best he can in a bad situation while tring to minimise the death and distruction that is sure to follow. He is just a realist that knows that things dont always turn out the way you wish or the way they are meant to be.

From what I have seen so far, he has nothing to feel sorry or apologise for, if you belive different then tell me what he has done that has got everyone so pissed off.

Spider-Man fans hate him because he's making Peter look like a "sidekick". Heh. I love that.

But if you've read the Illumnati special and read the past few months of the Amazing Spider-Man you'll see that Tony hasn't exactly been Mr. Wonderful, at least when it comes to Peter Parker. But Peter really has no idea yet...but we're guessing that he will. And when that happens Pete is gonna be pissed and it's going to be the "YES!" moment of the year in comics.

[supermarvelman]

I'm not pissed, I dont think he's done anything wrong, I just think he's acting more aggressive probabaly due to extremis.

[Darthphere]

Why is everyone acting like Tony Stark has done anything wrong in Civil War. I mean what has he really done that is wrong? The way I see it, he has done nothing wrong. I mean if following the law and encouraging others to do so is a sin then you might as well point your finger at ever law abiding citizen. It is not as if the registration act was his idea. He is just a man tring to do the best he can in a bad situation while tring to minimise the death and distruction that is sure to follow. He is just a realist that knows that things dont always turn out the way you wish or the way they are meant to be.

From what I have seen so far, he has nothing to feel sorry or apologise for, if you belive different then tell me what he has done that has got everyone so pissed off.


So in other words. Tony Stark isnt wrong.


Technically, Tony hasnt done anything wrong...yet. He just seems really shady with this whole thing, very manipulative, and hes pretty much going along with the capturing and if what reed showed us was right the imprisonment of superheros who he has been friends an allies with.

[supermarvelman]

Good point, noy wrong just shady. A little more shady than usual.

[Trask]

Spider-Man fans hate him because he's making Peter look like a "sidekick". Heh. I love that.

But if you've read the Illumnati special and read the past few months of the Amazing Spider-Man you'll see that Tony hasn't exactly been Mr. Wonderful, at least when it comes to Peter Parker. But Peter really has no idea yet...but we're guessing that he will. And when that happens Pete is gonna be pissed and it's going to be the "YES!" moment of the year in comics.

The only time he has been underhanded or lied to Spiderman was with the whole incident in Washington, besides that Tony has been truthful and honest with Peter. As for what happened in the Illumnati, it was not only Tony that was invovled, and the only thing they did that was questionable is sending the Hulk to space (for which I am sure there are a lot of people that will be thankful).

So in other words. Tony Stark isnt wrong.


Technically, Tony hasnt done anything wrong...yet. He just seems really shady with this whole thing, very manipulative, and hes pretty much going along with the capturing and if what reed showed us was right the imprisonment of superheros who he has been friends an allies with.

Well if you are pro-registration it basically means you are for the capturing and imprisonment of superheros. So how does that make him any different than the rest of the heroes that are pro-registration. I mean I dont see a lot of people bashing Reed or She-Hulk or any of the other heroes that are going with the program. They are all just obaying the law, and if you read ASM you would see that Tony has done everything in his power to have the act thrown or delayed before the whole Nitro disaster.

[SpideyInATree]

The only time he has been underhanded or lied to Spiderman was with the whole incident in Washington, besides that Tony has been truthful and honest with Peter. As for what happened in the Illumnati, it was not only Tony that was invovled, and the only thing they did that was questionable is sending the Hulk to space (for which I am sure there are a lot of people that will be thankful).

Hey, I understand that, heh. I'm one of the people who enjoys what is happening. But many of the Spider-Man fans dislike Stark because THEY say it makes Peter look like a "sidekick".

But, see, nobody wants to actually READ anymore. They'd just rather keep judging on what they WANT to see from the story. And instead of seeing a Peter Parker who's become an important member of a superhero team trying to reach out for some new friends...they just want to see how Tony treats Peter like "He's beneath him".

I guess everyone forgets that Peter lost his parents and his Uncle Ben at very young ages in his life. That while Uncle Ben served as his father figure, he lost that at the age of 15. And in the latest issue of the Amazing Spider-Man Peter basically laid down the relationship, how HE views it, with Stark.

Sidekick? Eh. If you're the Spider-Man fan who's been pissed off venomously since Sins Past and wants the blood of two humans, JMS and Quesada, who give two craps less about you....yeah, sidekick would sound about right.

But Pete was reaching for friendship and some fatherly guidance, especially from a man who Peter, recently, has come to respect a great deal. But, once again, nobody likes to read. Just judge.

[supermarvelman]

A lot of people have questioned Reed

Reed and Stark have been the two that most people have questioned, what about the others like She-Hulk or Ms marvel.

[supermarvelman]

when did Patriot become so durable?

[Darthphere]

A lot of people have questioned Reed

Reed and Stark have been the two that most people have questioned, what about the others like She-Hulk or Ms marvel.


Well She-Hulk is for it, but Jen Walters is against it, wierd huh? and Ms. Marvel works for the government already.

[Darthphere]

when did Patriot become so durable?


Read Young Avengers #12 on sale this month.:up:

[Trask]

Hey, I understand that, heh. I'm one of the people who enjoys what is happening. But many of the Spider-Man fans dislike Stark because THEY say it makes Peter look like a "sidekick".

But, see, nobody wants to actually READ anymore. They'd just rather keep judging on what they WANT to see from the story. And instead of seeing a Peter Parker who's become an important member of a superhero team trying to reach out for some new friends...they just want to see how Tony treats Peter like "He's beneath him".

I guess everyone forgets that Peter lost his parents and his Uncle Ben at very young ages in his life. That while Uncle Ben served as his father figure, he lost that at the age of 15. And in the latest issue of the Amazing Spider-Man Peter basically laid down the relationship, how HE views it, with Stark.

Sidekick? Eh. If you're the Spider-Man fan who's been pissed off venomously since Sins Past and wants the blood of two humans, JMS and Quesada, who give two craps less about you....yeah, sidekick would sound about right.

But Pete was reaching for friendship and some fatherly guidance, especially from a man who Peter, recently, has come to respect a great deal. But, once again, nobody likes to read. Just judge.

I was not repling to your "sidekick" comment, I gave up on that argument a while ago since people who think Peter has become Starks sidekick are unwilling to see it any other way. I know most of the people that hate Iron man and blame him for everything wrong in the Marvel universe since the dawn of time do so because of their perception of Peter's and Stark's relationship.

I just want people to stop and think of what Stark has done that is "wrong" that he is viewed as the "bad guy" in the whole Civil war and that will require some kind of plan to make him "good" again at the end of it all.

A lot of people have questioned Reed

Reed and Stark have been the two that most people have questioned, what about the others like She-Hulk or Ms marvel.

I have not seen a lot of people questioning Reed. There are some, but not to the level or intencity of Stark.

[SpideyInATree]

I was not repling to your "sidekick" comment, I gave up on that argument a while ago since people who think Peter has become Starks sidekick are unwilling to see it any other way. I know most of the people that hate Iron man and blame him for everything wrong in the Marvel universe since the dawn of time do so because of their perception of Peter's and Stark's relationship.

I just want people to stop and think of what Stark has done that is "wrong" that he is viewed as the "bad guy" in the whole Civil war and that will require some kind of plan to make him "good" again at the end of it all.



I have not seen a lot of people questioning Reed. There are some, but not to the level or intencity of Stark.

Heh, I know. I was just further adding to your point. No, Stark isn't a bad guy. But he isn't COMPLETELY innocent, and mostly because of the deception toward Peter.

[supermarvelman]

Read Young Avengers #12 on sale this month.:up:

Did it already come out?

[supermarvelman]

Someone can be in the army but not agree with Bush's point of views.

[Darthphere]

Did it already come out?


Nope, also read the upcoming Young Avengers/Runaways mini.

[supermarvelman]

Originally posted by Trask
[/quote]I have not seen a lot of people questioning Reed. There are some, but not to the level or intencity of Stark.[/quote]

Well I have seen a lot of people on these boards questioning Reed, so whatever.

[Trask]

Heh, I know. I was just further adding to your point. No, Stark isn't a bad guy. But he isn't COMPLETELY innocent, and mostly because of the deception toward Peter.

No one is COMPLETELY innocent, not even Peter.

Someone can be in the army but not agree with Bush's point of views.

And they have every right not to agree with Bush's point of view, but if they disobay his orders they will be sent to Jail.

Well I have seen a lot of people on these boards questioning Reed, so whatever.

Well it could be just me then.

[supermarvelman]

Thats your choice for being in the army, just like it's super-humans choice to be a hero. If there so worried about there family and they have super-powers either register and be a hero or register, hang up your boots and your family is safe or dont register leave your loved ones and be a vigilante.
Like I said they dont have to come out publicly so what the big deal about registering there powers and identities. If a black belt has to register himself because he is a deadly weapon, why should somebody who has a healing factor, adamantium claws, and is probably a black belt in ninjitsu(Wolverine) not have to register with the government.

[Dread]

Thats your choice for being in the army, just like it's super-humans choice to be a hero. If there so worried about there family and they have super-powers either register and be a hero or register, hang up your boots and your family is safe or dont register leave your loved ones and be a vigilante.
Like I said they dont have to come out publicly so what the big deal about registering there powers and identities. If a black belt has to register himself because he is a deadly weapon, why should somebody who has a healing factor, adamantium claws, and is probably a black belt in ninjitsu(Wolverine) not have to register with the government.
Great point! Just a shame that Marvel is blurring their own point with CW by seeming to believe "registering with the gov't" and "revealing your ID to the public at large" is the same thing. Its not.

Registering with the gov't as a professional fighter is not the same as every man, woman, and child in your state knowing your name, address, and the fact that you're a martial artist.

[gildea]

Great point! Just a shame that Marvel is blurring their own point with CW by seeming to believe "registering with the gov't" and "revealing your ID to the public at large" is the same thing. Its not.

Registering with the gov't as a professional fighter is not the same as every man, woman, and child in your state knowing your name, address, and the fact that you're a martial artist.


Tom breevort was quoted in an interview highlighting that you don't need to go public so marvel are well aware that they aren't the same thing.

Spidey went public cos in ASM tony asked him to and his family agreed it was the right decision, but they are aware he didn't need to.

[citizenpain]

i can't believe people are complaining about civil war involving the government and all that. comics have always reflected real life even though they're mostly fiction, but that's what makes them so appealing. hell, the x-men represent any minority in the real world, and world issues have always been the topic of many comics either directly or as some sort of a methaphor. right now in the U.S there's a lot of focus on government and a lot of people are torn on the issue of the iraq war. why shouldn't marvel's civil war reflect the real world? it makes the marvel universe into something a little bit more realistic. part of the reason i've always preferred marvel over dc.

[3dman27]

if jenifer walters and the she hulk are the same person how can she have TWO OPPOSING OPINIONS on the shra? [which btw i'd bet is ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL by marvels courts by the first of next year]

[rigel7soldiers]

One thing I love about Civil War is the Cap/Iron Man thing. Tony and Steve have been smacking each other around for years, and it's cool to see how it all boils over.

During the Armor Wars, Iron Man knocked Cap out so he could steal from Guardsmen at the Vault, eventually accidentally setting the prisoners free. When Tony hit rock bottom, Cap was there for him, to punch him in the face for letting himself go like he did. Iron Man feels he has more sway in Avengers business because he's a founder, but has skipped out on several key missions, including a conflict with Count Nefaria wherein ol' Luciano layed the smack down on the entire team. Cap wanted the Supreme Intelligence to stand Trial, Tony felt it should die, ad etceterum. It really adds a personal element to the War thing.

There should be a Cap/Iron Man: He Started It! one shot, or something.

[3dman27]

One thing I love about Civil War is the Cap/Iron Man thing. Tony and Steve have been smacking each other around for years, and it's cool to see how it all boils over.

During the Armor Wars, Iron Man knocked Cap out so he could steal from Guardsmen at the Vault, eventually accidentally setting the prisoners free. When Tony hit rock bottom, Cap was there for him, to punch him in the face for letting himself go like he did. Iron Man feels he has more sway in Avengers business because he's a founder, but has skipped out on several key missions, including a conflict with Count Nefaria wherein ol' Luciano layed the smack down on the entire team. Cap wanted the Supreme Intelligence to stand Trial, Tony felt it should die, ad etceterum. It really adds a personal element to the War thing.

There should be a Cap/Iron Man: He Started It! one shot, or something.speaking of the guardsmen are THEY the ones who become a virtual army of iron men" via an upgrade from guardsman to iron man/war machine armor?

[supermarvelman]

I'm bet Shang Chi and Iron Fist are already registered for there martial arts.

[Darthphere]

I'm bet Shang Chi and Iron Fist are already registered for there martial arts.


Shang is part of the new Heroes for Hire which is hunting down heroes, who knows about Iron Fist, hes supposed to show up.

[supermarvelman]

Shang probably has no problem registering because like I said he's probabaly been registered for years because of his martial arts.

[aidol]

On Jean Grey's side....phoenix force!

[dmor173]

How much time was there between issue one and two? Because that legislation got rushed through pretty quick.

Does anyone else think the two sides splitting have become like the democrats and republicans? Caps side all about the rights of the individual and tonys side all about the bigger picture. Im not picking sides but the ideaolgy has been pretty clear from the start.

Also who is in Caps secret avengers. I saw Falcon, Cap the Young Avengers and it looked like Cable?

[Vanguard07]

Yeah i noticed cable too. Although it didnt make much sense to me. With what's happening in Cable/Deadpool it doesnt make a lot of sense for him to be involved in Civil War much. And even if he was i'm inclined to believe that he'd be more likely to side with the pro-registering.

My guess is it's artistic liscense or something. Similar to Blob being one of the imprisoned "super villains" in Thunderbolts a few issues back despite the events of Generation M

[Artistsean]

I don't know if this has been delt with, but have they revealed who is wearing the Dearedevil costume while Matt's in prison?

[3dman27]

I'm bet Shang Chi and Iron Fist are already registered for there martial arts.
possibly

[supermarvelman]

Yea whats up did Blob get his powers back

[LouFerignoDemon]

Edit. Sorry, forgot about the Thunderbolts.

[Ben Grimm]

Don't worry. They will soon be ****ing with the very core of the FF's theme.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Sorry this is a little late...

I was at my local comic shop, and I overheard a rumor of A Sue and Reed split and possible divorce do to the events of CW. As unlikely as that sounds (atleast to me)... After Spidey's unmasking, I'm asking myself, what won't they do next to shake up the good ol 616?

[Harlekin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Daimoah/CivilWarGalac.png

[SpideyInATree]

I don't know if this has been delt with, but have they revealed who is wearing the Dearedevil costume while Matt's in prison?

No, not yet. It'll be revealed in the last part of the current arc in Daredevil. I'm not sure how many issues are left of it, but we should be finding out VERY soon. I know I want to, damnit. heh.

[iceberg325]

Im on cap americas side.

[Donnie Darko]

is there a web site with lots of those Civil War banners I can look at without searching all through this thread?

[Fred_Fury]

The marvel universe sucks. Granted I like the cartoons and movies set in the marvel universe but the comics just suck.

[Darthphere]

The marvel universe sucks. Granted I like the cartoons and movies set in the marvel universe but the comics just suck.


Thanks for sharing.

[Fred_Fury]

Thanks for sharing.

no u

[Kotagg]

....awesome.

[Frico]

Still waitin' for that Luke Cage issue......:(

[Tropico]

Ok, so I FINALLY got CW#2 and read it. I'll start off with the re-cap in the first page since it's the OFFICIAL version and to clarify a few things that people just don't seem to WANT to understand:
"On Capitol Hill, a SHRA is debated which would require ALL THOSE POSESSING PARANORMAL ABILITIES to register with the government, divulging their true identities to the authorities and submitting to training and sanctioning in the mannerer of FEDERAL AGENTS." OF course, Tony sells it differently and people believe it.:rolleyes:

It was extremely gratifying to see that the heroes are still trying to do their thing even though they have and additional "enemy" when they're trying to take the real bad guys down and that they're being effective. Of course, there's that incident with the SHIELD agent that gets thrown out of the truck and the cop cars fly all over the place. Pre-CW we would be saying "They're fine", but now I'm sure that there are chances that one of the cops might've died or suffered serious injuries. I laughed at Cap's eyeglasses thing since it's probably a dig at Supes.

There are a couple of things that are clearly done to manipulate the story like using the NW as a setup. The way Reed, Tony and Hank are acting in regards to "42" is disturbing, and to me seems pretty out of character. Of course, making the SHRA side gleeful at apprehending their old comrades is probably meant to cause a reaction in us. They express some kind of doubt in what they're doing but those moments are quickly dispelled by their actions which are supposed to have more weight than their words. It makes sense for Cap to organize a moment to protect themselves while still being able to do "the right thing", it doesn't look to me like "Cap's-Secret-Base-For-Taking-Down-The-Government" as other people have suggested. It still irks me, though, that SHIELD seems to be able ot keep tabs on these guys but Nitro still runs around. Old gripe, I know, sorry.:O

Finally, Spidey's unmasking wasn't as shocking as I though it would be. It was more like a "WTF?!" moment for me. Why? Because of this lil' sentence: "I'm not wearing my old mask because I'm ashamed of what I do." Again, WTF?! Anyway, I think you guys have heard it all in regards to the Spidey thing so I won't comment further on it.

[mr. black]

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8113/civrebel1lu.jpg