Civil War: Whos side are you on?

[TheCorpulent1]

To accentuate the anti-hero sentiment around the country. It's not just the Warriors, it's at every hero (masked or unmasked).
It seems odd that the FF would be targeted, though. They've never had secret identities, they've publicly demonstrated their heroism a number of times, they're generally loved by the people... they even coordinate with the government when they need to. They're like the goody two-shoes of the superhero community. Although I guess that could've been the point: if the FF are getting targeted, you can be pretty sure that all the "lesser" heroes will be, too.

[SpideyInATree]

HUH? Did you read Civil War Frontline? Spidey actually gives the best reasons why superheroes shouldn't reveal their identities. He talked about loved ones he's lost bc of being a superhero. He also explained that his family would be the 1st targets if he went public. It's one thing to reveal your id to the government, but to hold a press conference at the white house? That's a crazy idea. Spider-man knows the type of villains he attracts and how demented they are.Doc Ock almost married Aunt May for chrsit sakes! Can you imagine what they are gonna do to his loved ones? The Bugle? The school he taught at? All of the people at these places are now going to be in jeopardy. Peter Parker gonna wish he still had those clones once people start targeting his friends and family. Or hope Tony lends him some spare suits.

No I didn't read Frontline yet. It just came out yesterday. And whatever happens in Frontline doesn't change anything.

The point I was making in that post was toward another post made by another person. They were wondering why Spider-Man would want to reveal his identity in a press conference and make such a big deal out of it.

I was merely offering some examples as to why it makes sense for Spider-Man to reveal his identity like that.

Whether you agree or disagree with the revelation is up to you.

I'm always in the minority on subjects around here, especially with Spider-Man, and I have no problem being in the minority with this situation as I'm excited to see what Peter's life can be like with the mask off for once.

[samurai black]

With all major events in comics, it's always interesting to see how the ramifications of said event are played out. It's almost more fun to want to skip the event just to see how things are afterwards. But lately with Marvel, i feels like I'm reading a comic book version of Nick Cannon's Wildin Out(yes i watch it) After HOM, I was stunned and couldn't wait to see how it would affect the MU. But since then, people have gotten powers back, no new villains, not really much character development, etc. Then here comes The Other, again, big event "Life Changing Things Happen" and what happens? Spider-Man dies, HE Friggin Dies!!! But why the big shock if it serves only to have him come back a couple days later, fully clothed, and have dinner with friends and family. And to not mention the fact his eye was ripped out and eaten. Oh and let's make him a new suit and give him some retractable spikes. But what happened to the character development? Spidey actually took a step backwards after The Other.
My point is that although these so called "Events" are supposed to be life changing and have long term effects on the character, I don't think that the writers actually take the time to plan a long term story for these characters. So in the end, all we get is a cheap shock, then empty stories.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's a good point. Marvel tends to execute things a bit haphazardly more often than not. Maybe that's why people are embracing Civil War so much. You're finally getting to see some fully realized consequences based on the major, traumatic events Marvel likes to throw around in their crossovers. The Stamford disaster is actually creating ripples, people are reacting on various fronts, etc. It looks like that's being set up to happen for the superhero registration act, too. Marvel finally seems to be on the ball for milking the fallout properly this time around.

[3dman27]

It seems odd that the FF would be targeted, though. They've never had secret identities, they've publicly demonstrated their heroism a number of times, they're generally loved by the people... they even coordinate with the government when they need to. They're like the goody two-shoes of the superhero community. Although I guess that could've been the point: if the FF are getting targeted, you can be pretty sure that all the "lesser" heroes will be, too.
don't forget the ff are still being blamed for the latveria incedent

[gildea]

It seems odd that the FF would be targeted, though. They've never had secret identities, they've publicly demonstrated their heroism a number of times, they're generally loved by the people... they even coordinate with the government when they need to. They're like the goody two-shoes of the superhero community. Although I guess that could've been the point: if the FF are getting targeted, you can be pretty sure that all the "lesser" heroes will be, too.


authorative action happened pretty recently.

[stillanerd]

Just in case some of you have doubts about Spider-Man unmasking in Civil War:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2453/tb103p12eb.gif

[Darthphere]

Just in case some of you have doubts about Spider-Man unmasking in Civil War:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2453/tb103p12eb.gif



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOO!

[blah]

There goes our everyman superhero.

[Darthphere]

Still heres hoping Cap sows up or something hits him on his head with his shield and run out with him to his secret underground lair of awesomeness.

[rigel7soldiers]

Real quick, I just want to say, I'm looking forward to Ben Urich getting a repulsor ray through his head.

That guy is such a downer, it's a miracle it hasn't happened before.

[Darthphere]

Real quick, I just want to say, I'm looking forward to Ben Urich getting a repulsor ray through his head.

That guy is such a downer, it's a miracle it hasn't happened before.


Ben Urich is awesome.:mad:

[rigel7soldiers]

I'm kidding.
I don't actually want Ben Urich to die; I find the prospect of Iron Man just straight up shooting him to be hilarious, though.

[SpideyInATree]

There goes our everyman superhero.

Because he takes his mask off he's not an everyman anymore? :confused:

If you're going to say that then Peter Parker hasn't been an everyman since he married a supermodel.

How many every day men do you know married to a supermodel?

Sheesh.

[3dman27]

here's one line i'd love for spidey or wolverine to say to iron man during civil war
"hey tin woodsman
I'M SENDING YOU BACK TO OZ"

[PWN3R]

Just in case some of you have doubts about Spider-Man unmasking in Civil War:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2453/tb103p12eb.gif


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I don't even know how to respond to this....:(

[jaydawg]

I thought everyone was overreacting but...... my god. Q really has too far. I cant wait to see what jackass idea retcons this.

[Darthphere]

It truly is a sad day.

[samurai black]

Does this come out next week? It's too late to complain now. Just please let them write this correctly. All we can do now is sit back and cross our fingers.

[TheCorpulent1]

Just in case some of you have doubts about Spider-Man unmasking in Civil War:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2453/tb103p12eb.gif
Eh, who cares? Peter's powers have completely changed thanks to "The Other," he's unmasking in Civil War, Uncle Ben's come back in FNSM. Really, if you're still clinging to any hope that Spider-Man will remain the same old Spider-Man you know and love at this point, you're just deluding yourself. I don't know why--maybe because I've already worn myself out caring how Marvel ****s up my favorite characters with Thor--but I've managed to detach myself from Spider-Man entirely. I'll just wait and see how things play out, then see what the new status quo is when the whole thing blows over.

[Darthphere]

Eh, who cares? Peter's powers have completely changed thanks to "The Other," he's unmasking in Civil War, Uncle Ben's come back in FNSM. Really, if you're still clinging to any hope that Spider-Man will remain the same old Spider-Man you know and love at this point, you're just deluding yourself. I don't know why--maybe because I've already worn myself out caring how Marvel ****s up my favorite characters with Thor--but I've managed to detach myself from Spider-Man entirely. I'll just wait and see how things play out, then see what the new status quo is when the whole thing blows over.


Its ok Corp, dont cry.

[stillanerd]

Eh, who cares? Peter's powers have completely changed thanks to "The Other," he's unmasking in Civil War, Uncle Ben's come back in FNSM. Really, if you're still clinging to any hope that Spider-Man will remain the same old Spider-Man you know and love at this point, you're just deluding yourself. I don't know why--maybe because I've already worn myself out caring how Marvel ****s up my favorite characters with Thor--but I've managed to detach myself from Spider-Man entirely. I'll just wait and see how things play out, then see what the new status quo is when the whole thing blows over.

I'm pretty much thinking we're going to get something along these lines:

*Nick Fury will return as head of S.H.I.E.L.D. having himself and the rebels exposing that the Riverbank Massacre was orchestrated by the same "shadow government" that created and fianced the supervillains, and that Nitro, Agent Hill, and certain members of S.H.I.E.L.D. were in on it to created an event to get SHR passed.
*Iron Man's actions will be revealed to have been influenced due to being infected by the Extremis virus.
*Since the damage of the SHR has already been done, Doctor Strange casts a magic spell that removes any and all knowledge of the secret identities of the heroes who wish for their identities to remain secret, including S.H.I.E.L.D. files and any electronic evidence. Those whose identities that are already public, like the Fantastic Four, remain so, while those that don't are still considered outlaws. What's more, not only do some of the general public not trust certain heroes, but certain heroes don't trust each other, the events of Civil War and the "mindwiping" of certain identities cementing this.
*New Avengers is headed by Captain America and supervised by Nick Fury while Iron Man's group is sent off to Los Angeles to avoid the scandal of their involvement with Hill and reestablish the West Coast Avengers.
*Thor is back.
*Spider-Man, as a consequence of Dr. Strange, not only has the knowledge of his identity secret again, but no record or memory exists that he was ever married to Mary Jane. Only he really knows.

[CaptainStacy]

I'm pretty much thinking we're going to get something along these lines:

*Nick Fury will return as head of S.H.I.E.L.D. having himself and the rebels exposing that the Riverbank Massacre was orchestrated by the same "shadow government" that created and fianced the supervillains, and that Nitro, Agent Hill, and certain members of S.H.I.E.L.D. were in on it to created an event to get SHR passed.
*Iron Man's actions will be revealed to have been influenced due to being infected by the Extremis virus.
*Since the damage of the SHR has already been done, Doctor Strange casts a magic spell that removes any and all knowledge of the secret identities of the heroes who wish for their identities to remain secret, including S.H.I.E.L.D. files and any electronic evidence. Those whose identities that are already public, like the Fantastic Four, remain so, while those that don't are still considered outlaws. What's more, not only do some of the general public not trust certain heroes, but certain heroes don't trust each other, the events of Civil War and the "mindwiping" of certain identities cementing this.
*New Avengers is headed by Captain America and supervised by Nick Fury while Iron Man's group is sent off to Los Angeles to avoid the scandal of their involvement with Hill and reestablish the West Coast Avengers.
*Thor is back.
*Spider-Man, as a consequence of Dr. Strange, not only has the knowledge of his identity secret again, but no record or memory exists that he was ever married to Mary Jane. Only he really knows.

I nominate Stillanerd for Marvel EIC.

'Nuff said!

[TheCorpulent1]

I second the nomination because of the "Thor is back" point. :) Provided that MJ thing doesn't come to pass, I mean. I like MJ.

[Vanguard07]

Joe Q has mentioned that he doesnt Like MJ and Peter's marriage though so I wouldnt be TOO surprised

[TheCorpulent1]

I never said anything about it surprising me, I just don't want it to happen.

[Fantasyartist]

Definitely on the anti-registration side led by Captain America (stuffed shirt though he may be!). The issue is one of freedom- Avengers, FF, X-Men all were formed without government supervision (although the original X-Men had FBI liaison) Keep Government off the backs of the (super powered) people, as Ronald Reagan used to say as president! The red herring of "vigilanteism" is absurd. Most super hero groups( absent Punisher or Wolverine maybe) cooperate freely with NYPD, FBI, Pentagon, CIA. If you outlaw super heroes , only outlaws will be super heroes, as the NRA slogan runs!

Terry

[x-mutantwings-x]

www.the-new-institute.piczo.com

[warren_sparta27]

Captain America surfed on the top of a jet plane, how can you not side with him :)

[Darthphere]

Id think Id hate the idea that the government and SHIELD orchestrated the Stamford disaster.

[Zaptoitnow]

www.the-new-institute.piczo.com
WTF does this have to do with anything?

[stormcloud03]

Captain America!
What is a hero without a mask? Just another government agent

[kiuju2k]

I like how the ultimate universe is with shield regulating everything that makes alot of sense. Plus the ultimate universe pretty much started out being that way(shield running things). That whole universe has a good harmony so far. But, trying to establish it in 616 is a little late it doesn't interest me in the least. Plus they already had mutant registration and blah blah blah.... nice try though.


Who knows maybe Wanda comes back at the end of civil war when everything goes to hell then BOOM. There goes your retcon. Right there. As it stands this unmasking thing is terrible. Luckily I'm not too attached to spiderman like I used to.

[kiuju2k]

Yeah.... damn... more proof if you needed more I guess.

http://www.comicboards.com/smb/view.php?trd=060608041721

[stormcloud03]

what is wrong with spider man he used to be so... fun

[Superman \S/]

So Spidey reveals his identity?

[SpideyInATree]

what is wrong with spider man he used to be so... fun

Spider-Man still is fun, maybe you're just a party pooper.

[iloveclones]

I'm with you, SIAT. I think Spidey is still a lot of fun.

And as far as the reveal, I can't wait. I thought it was the best thing JMS did in his run, letting Aunt May find out. I think this reveal is going to be just as good. I can't wait to see Jonah's reaction, or for the first time Pete speaks with him. Or Flash. Or Robbie. Or the Stacy family.Or any myriad of people. I would love to see Deb Whitman come and just punch him right in the face. I think it opens up so many new opportunities, that it can't happen soon enough.

I know people will be upset, and I'm not trying to poke anyone with a stick. I'm just genuinely happy that they're doing this. And if it gets ret-conned in a few months/years, oh well. I just want to enjoy the stories in the here and now.

[cart1]

So Spidey reveals his identity?
It will be intresting to see JJJ's Reaction to it

[deemar325]

So Spidey reveals his identity?

What!!?

[Darthphere]

God, it makes me glad that I dont buy Spider-Man titles.

[SpideyInATree]

I'm with you, SIAT. I think Spidey is still a lot of fun.

And as far as the reveal, I can't wait. I thought it was the best thing JMS did in his run, letting Aunt May find out. I think this reveal is going to be just as good. I can't wait to see Jonah's reaction, or for the first time Pete speaks with him. Or Flash. Or Robbie. Or the Stacy family.Or any myriad of people. I would love to see Deb Whitman come and just punch him right in the face. I think it opens up so many new opportunities, that it can't happen soon enough.

I know people will be upset, and I'm not trying to poke anyone with a stick. I'm just genuinely happy that they're doing this. And if it gets ret-conned in a few months/years, oh well. I just want to enjoy the stories in the here and now.

Another ally!!! :eek:

So, it's me, you, and CaptStacy who so far seem to be the only ones excited for the unmasking.

But I am definitely pumped for the reactions. My personal favorite will be Norman Osborn. I think he won't take it very well, being that he's held Pete's identity over him for a while...and he doesn't have it anymore, heh. THAT'S the one I'm looking forward to.

And the other reactions will be how people will view Peter. I wonder how his former students would feel knowing that Spider-Man was teaching them science class. Talk about a mind blower!!!

[Darthphere]

Robbie Robertson:"Yeah I knew that back in 66."

[iloveclones]

JJJ: Can you believe that little punk working for me all those years, laughing his ass off, and..

Robbie: Jonah, seriously? You didn't know? Hell, I thought you were just jerkin' him around all these years. How can you own a newspaper and not know that? I mean, the kid was in freakin' LONDON when Spider-Man appeared. What kind of brick wall do you need?

[Darthphere]

Its gotten to the point where its not OMG Peter Parker is Spider-Man, its more like OMG! You didnt know Peter Parker was Spider-Man?"

[SpideyInATree]

Its gotten to the point where its not OMG Peter Parker is Spider-Man, its more like OMG! You didnt know Peter Parker was Spider-Man?"

Heh. Yeah, it has. Further proof that the unmasking needs to be done.

[Darthphere]

Heh. Yeah, it has. Further proof that the unmasking needs to be done.


I dont know if it has to be done, but Spider-Man is the last character in the MU that really has some seblance of a secret identity.

[deemar325]

JJJ: Can you believe that little punk working for me all those years, laughing his ass off, and..

Robbie: Jonah, seriously? You didn't know? Hell, I thought you were just jerkin' him around all these years. How can you own a newspaper and not know that? I mean, the kid was in freakin' LONDON when Spider-Man appeared. What kind of brick wall do you need?

LOL!!

[SpideyInATree]

I dont know if it has to be done, but Spider-Man is the last character in the MU that really has some seblance of a secret identity.

Yeah, but this is a character who's been protecting his identity since 1962. You mean to tell me in all those years of stories and comics that many people haven't figured out Peter is Spider-Man would just make everyone in the Marvel Universe retarded.

Ben Urich figured it out. And if Urich did than you know that Robbie Robertson has known...since like the 70's. I find it hard to believe that many other characters haven't figured it out.

It's why I liked that Aunt May knew he was Spider-Man for a while in ASM # 400. It would have EVENTUALLY caught up to him fighting super villains and what not. Your luck can't keep up like that forever unless writers are afraid to unmask him because of this very reason, the fans pitching the biggest fit in all comics. :o

[Darthphere]

Yeah, but this is a character who's been protecting his identity since 1962. You mean to tell me in all those years of stories and comics that many people haven't figured out Peter is Spider-Man would just make everyone in the Marvel Universe retarded.

Ben Urich figured it out. And if Urich did than you know that Robbie Robertson has known...since like the 70's. I find it hard to believe that many other characters haven't figured it out.

It's why I liked that Aunt May knew he was Spider-Man for a while in ASM # 400. It would have EVENTUALLY caught up to him fighting super villains and what not. Your luck can't keep up like that forever unless writers are afraid to unmask him because of this very reason, the fans pitching the biggest fit in all comics. :o


Funny since Batman and Superman have had secret identities since 1939.

[SpideyInATree]

Funny since Batman and Superman have had secret identities since 1939.

Batman and Superman are two horses of a completely different color. And from a completely different comic book company, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

[Darthphere]

Batman and Superman are two horses of a completely different color. And from a completely different comic book company, it's like comparing apples and oranges.


Not really.

[stillanerd]

Actually, if you want to know what the reactions will be, it may go something like this: (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9120936&postcount=59)

SPIDER-MAN: Okay, people, my real name is Peter Parker. I know, I know, it's a real shock.
VULTURE: So you're some guy name Peter Parker. Big deal. I unmasked you weeks ago.
SANDMAN: I once unmasked him, although I didn’t get a good look at his face cause he ran away like a chicken.
INMATES: Hey we unmasked him too, but it was too dark to see.
SCORPION: Oh yeah. I figured out who he was without unmasking him.
VENOM: Don’t make us laugh. On top of taking away our other, you we're told who he was. And you call yourself a private detective? Besides, we figured out Spider-Man was Parker long before any of you.
DOCTOR OCTOPUS: Correction. I had the distinct honor of being the very first to publicly unmask the meddlesome wall-crawler.
CAPTAIN STACY: You call what you did an unmasking? You only thought he was Parker in disguise as Spider-Man and not that they were one and the same. I, on the other hand, used logic and detective work to figure it out.
BEN URICH: All I needed was my journalistic instincts.
DEBRA WHITMAN: Um...no offense, sir. But I figured out Peter was Spider-Man simply by following Peter up some stairs and finding Spider-Man on the roof instead.
HARRY OSBORN: Hey, lady. I figured out who he was simply by watching Spidey fight my dad. And I was even strung out on drugs at the time.
CHAMELEON: That's nothing, I learned who he really was and I was insane.
ROBOT PARENTS: You would have NEVER known hadn't it been for us. Peter told us he was Spider-Man outright.
BLACK CAT: Oh yeah. I was the very first person who he willingly revealed his identity too. Of course, I can’t say I was thrilled when I found out, but...
TIM HARRISON: Sorry, toots. I was first. And all I had to do was ASK him.
BLACK CAT: That’s cause you were dying of cancer you stupid kid.
GWEN STACY: Actually, Peter revealed who he was willingly to me, my dad, Harry, and MJ.
BLACK CAT: Yeah, and from what I heard you cried like a little girl and went bawling to daddy.
GWEN STACY: Shut up, you hussy.
BLACK CAT: Oh that’s rich. Coming from a girl who slept with the father of Peter’s best friend and refused to mention that she gave birth to twins.
SARAH: Hey, don’t you dare ridicule our mom that way.
GABRIEL: Besides. We learned the truth after watching him jump over a wall to escape us.
AGENT MARIA HILL: Please. I used a psychic to figure out the truth.
MADAME WEB: Pish posh. I learned it through my own psychic powers before you did.
PROFESSOR X: Actually, that distinct honor belongs to me.
DOCTOR STRANGE: No, Charles. I discovered his identity in the same manner long before you did.
DAREDEVIL: Well, I didn’t need psychic powers. I learned who he was by listening to his heart rythums, voice patterns, and scent.
PUMA: All I needed smell, Hornhead.
WOLVERINE: I’m afraid you’ve come up short in that department, bub.
PUMA: Look who’s talking.
KA-ZAR: I’m afraid that I, Ka-Zar, lord of the Savage Land learned the truth in similar fashion long before then.
AUNT MAY: Goodness. All I did was walk in his room and found his costume lying on the floor.
BEN REILLY: Ha, I was BORN knowing that Peter and Spider-Man was one and the same, because I’m his clone.
KAINE: No, because I came before you did, Reilly!
JACKAL: Well, both of you wouldn’t have known if he hadn’t been for me, who learned the truth from a mere blood sample.
NICK FURY: We at S.H.I.E.L.D. already knew who he was long before you did.
AGENT HILL: We did?
MORLUN: I didn’t need any of that. I learned simply through his totemistic essence.
SHATHRA THE SPIDER-WASP: As did I.
EZEKIEL: What am I, chopped liver?
THE GREAT WEAVER: Which none of you would’ve known had it not been for me.
IRON MAN: Wait a minute, none of you should count. Peter origins were a product of science, not intelligent design.
DOCTOR STRANGE: So you say.
CAPTAIN AMERICA: People, people. Let’s not get so upset. Besides, I figured out who he was...
NICK FURY: Only through accessing our files. As did ALL the Avengers.
BATMAN: I didn't even need computer files.
CAPTAIN AMERICA: What are you doing here? You don't belong in our universe?
BATMAN: Guess you forgot about DC vs. Marvel and JLA vs. Avengers, then.
THE SPECTRE: Which of course were the fault of those two brothers.
SUPERBOY PRIME: *whispering* Don't tell anybody, but it was actually me and one of my retcon punches.
J. JONAH JAMESON: Well, I knew it was Parker all along. That’s why I accepted all those pictures he took of himself. Wanted to help a young man get his feet wet, being the kind soul I am.
JOE ROBERTSON: And I suppose that whole incident with you thinking that your own son was Spider-Man was just act, considering how they were seen together at the same time.
JAMESON: Oh, and I suppose you knew all along, eh smarty pants?
ROBERTSON: Maybe....
GREEN GOBLIN: Oh please. All of those attempts are pathetic compared to what I’ve accomplished. Why, I was the very first person to learn Spider-Man was really Peter Parker. And that’s more than any of you have ever done.
MARY JANE: Sorry, Norman. I was the very first person to ever learn the truth, and I’ve known who he was the very night his Uncle Ben died. So there. *Sticks out tounge*
THE WATCHER: Actually, it was I, the Watcher, who sees all things and all possibilities. I have known that the one you call Spider-Man was Peter Parker long before he ever became Spider-Man.
STAN LEE: Actually, it was me, since I was the one who created Spidey.
STEVE DITKO: No, it was me.
STAN LEE: Steve, let’s not start THAT again.
GOD: Don’t I get a say in this?
BRAIN MICHEAL BENDIS: Good thing they're not talking about the Ultimate universe.

[SpideyInATree]

Not really.

Yeah it is. Marvel and DC are two comic companies but they also have different outlooks on their superheroes and take them into different directions.

It's just like a thread in the Spidey comics forum. Another Hype user brought up a good subject on Spider-Man possibly passing down the mantle of the Spider-Man to other people, much like DC characters have passed down their mantles. Examples: The Flash. Green Lantern. Blue Beetle, etc.

But you can't really do that with Marvel characters.

Unmasking Spider-Man, to me, is something that has been waiting in the wings for about 5 years, in my opinion. And this Civil War storyline is basically the perfect place for them to work a story where Spidey goes public.

Batman and Superman are completely different from Spider-Man. As I said, apples and oranges.

[Norman Osborn]

Batman and Superman are completely different from Spider-Man. As I said, apples and oranges.

Well Superman anyway....since he doesn't even wear a mask.!!!.....yes 40 years later and I still can't suspend disbelief enough to buy into the whole damn city of Metropolis being either that blind or stupid!!!

[Darthphere]

Unmasking Spider-Man, to me, is something that has been waiting in the wings for about 5 years, in my opinion. And this Civil War storyline is basically the perfect place for them to work a story where Spidey goes public.


Yeah, only because one man and one editor have decided it so. Before JMS and Quesada, youre going to tell me this would ever have happened? Hell no.

[CaptainStacy]

I would love to see Deb Whitman come and just punch him right in the face. I think it opens up so many new opportunities, that it can't happen soon enough.


Lol, can you imagine? And she'd be TOTALLY in the right!

Yeah, initially, i was dreading this scenario, but when i read ASM #532...what can i say? The dialogue was excellent. Straz completely won me over.

It's almost like when the concept for Civil War was created, each Marvel character from that point on began to basically "write themselves"...Cap, Iron Man, Spidey....

I was initially against DD's recent outing as well, and the (apparent) murder of Foggy Nelson but both Bendis and Brubaker won me over too.

Moral of the story? "If you write it (and write it well)...they will come".

[masteryoda]

Lol, can you imagine? And she'd be TOTALLY in the right!

Yeah, initially, i was dreading this scenario, but when i read ASM #532...what can i say? The dialogue was excellent. Straz completely won me over.

It's almost like when the concept for Civil War was created, each Marvel character from that point on began to basically "write themselves"...Cap, Iron Man, Spidey....

I was initially against DD's recent outing as well, and the (apparent) murder of Foggy Nelson but both Bendis and Brubaker won me over too.

Moral of the story? "If you write it (and write it well)...they will come".
You're bang on as usual, my friend. I wasn't thrilled with this either but I finally read the latest issue of Amazing last night (twice!) and Aunt May and MJ made such great points that I couldn't help but agree with them. Peter doesn't have anything to be ashamed of and with this registration act he won't have to worry about the safety of his loved ones.
Except for the fact that the reality of working for the goverment and the government telling Peter who the bad guys are (like Cap. America said) will make him realise he made a mistake. Oh man, it's gonna be a fun ride. :up:

[masteryoda]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/UltimateThor/civilwar2.gif

[Zaptoitnow]

Exactly. There are way too many people that have had close relationships with Pete while he was more or less lying to them by keeping his secret identity. Imagine all the hardships Peter and Spider-Man have endured by certain people, that they only had to go through because they were not known as one and the same. I can't wait to see all the supporting cast come crawling out of the woodwork to see their reactions. Especially with Flash in FNSM.

[jaydawg]

:eek: . Looks like I'm going to war.

[Kotagg]

*shoots jaydawg*

Yes! Come to me, Elisha!

[Dread]

As for the "jumping" of Johnny Storm, circa CIVIL WAR #1 consisering the FANTASTIC FOUR's longtime "open" relationship regarding their secret identities, that just goes to show that being open means those that want to hurt you know EXACTLY where to look.

I definately feel sorry for poor Speedball.

Naturally, the big thing is "will he or won't he" with Spider-Man possibly revealing his identity. Frankly, I feel its a BIG mistake, one that DC made a few years ago with the Flash and other heroes that usually requires some big cheesy "spell" to undo, or some year long cosmic event to shift the world on its axis and create a world where that stuff just didn't ever happen. The problem with many longtime iconic characters is that if you breach them too far from what made them "popular" in the first place, then they become unrecognizable. Example? The Hulk has run around as "smart Hulk" for years in real time in the 90's. Where's that been now? Nowhere. Has it ever been used in a movie, TV series, etc? No. And it never will be, because "dumb Hulk" was part of the iconic status of the man/monster dynamic. Note that no Spider-Man cartoon or movie has DARED use anything from the canon 616 that happened in the past 10 years; the movies either stripmine Ultimate, or the Silver Age.

Part of Spider-Man's schtick was how he had a "real life" under the mask, and how his superhero life always inconvienced his moderate soap opera "normal life", that on some level a person could relate to. And NO, getting married to "a supermodel" (despite the fact that there've been stretches of time when she wasn't) didn't hurt him, because plenty of men get married to women they are sometimes in awe of. But when you make him an Avenger, move him out of a normal apartment and into Stark Tower with TALKING ROBOT BIRDS, when you remove almost all members of his supporting cast and hardly ever show him at a job, or having a life aside for webs, MJ, and his aunt, and give him nanobot armor and stand him aside Iron Man, well, he becomes more "generic".

Him "unmasking" himself opens some story oppurtunities, yes, if they are handled well. The notion that they will is dubious, considering that THE OTHER was trash, and that the core Spider-book has been reliant on crossovers to boost its sales and importance for the past 8 or so months. And it also takes away that "wall" between Spider-Man and Peter Parker, and between Spidey and the public, and so on. It basically makes him pretty much the same as a billion DC heroes, and if I wanted that...I'd be reading more DC comics. I'd get my fix on that kind of stuff from THE FLASH or GREEN ARROW or so on. I read Spider-Man because I expect some things according to his genre, just as X-Men readers expect things like a school, like Wolverine, like an X on the buckle and some commentary on race relations amidst the sci-fi melodrama. Strip all that away and its X-Men in name only.

The "open-ness" of Spider-Man's identity would be "hot" for about a year, and then Marvel and the fans would lose interest, want to go back (especially as 2007 looms in the corner), and then they'd be in a hole, because "undoing" an identity reveal is a very hard thing to undo without some chees-tastic "coverall" manuver. Dr. Strange rigs up a magic spell with the blood of Purple Man and the hair of Emma Frost, and POOF, all done, with happy thoughts and fairy-dust.

The reveal of DAREDEVIL's alias has also done nothing for him except for turn his life into a big pile of crap heaped on itself. It'll get old in a year. What more can you do to the man? Have the feds shave off his genitals while simultaneously hiring Bullseye to kill his mother? Pfft, I bet some readers would eat that with a spoon. Good as it is, some things become formulaic.

I don't want Spider-Man to share that fate. He's been bungled for years because the powers-that-be always insist on "fixing" what is wrong with him, yet every single damn storyline that has "ruined" Spider-Man within the past 15 or so years has been in an attempt to "jazz" him up, to "fix" him, into something "that is relatable". Meanwhile, what do the movies, the TV shows, usually do? Stick with what works. And when done well, it finds an audience, it grosses a billion worldwide. Heck, even USM sticks with that, and it outsold ASM easily for years, despite JMS, until the crossovers gave ASM a boost. Marvel is always the hare to DC's tortoise at times, always being so fast to race themselves into a corner. CIVIL WAR has some interesting tones to it, but I fear a burning of the bridges. Marvel of all companies should know how quickly editorial decisions can change, and how soon they may want to pull a 180 again, which gets harder if you burn too many bridges behind you. A nanobot suit, an Avengers member-card, a lease at Stark Tower, are all one thing. But revealing his identity to the public like Wally West once did...is a helluva big bridge to burn.

I'd be wary about that one.

[deemar325]

Well said Dread, right said Fred.

[kiuju2k]

Wanda.... have any of you seen her?

[deemar325]

She's waiting in the wings for when this whole 'Spidey reveals all' debacle happens.

Wanda: "No more knowing secret identities..."

[Darthphere]

As for the "jumping" of Johnny Storm, circa CIVIL WAR #1 consisering the FANTASTIC FOUR's longtime "open" relationship regarding their secret identities, that just goes to show that being open means those that want to hurt you know EXACTLY where to look.

I definately feel sorry for poor Speedball.

Naturally, the big thing is "will he or won't he" with Spider-Man possibly revealing his identity. Frankly, I feel its a BIG mistake, one that DC made a few years ago with the Flash and other heroes that usually requires some big cheesy "spell" to undo, or some year long cosmic event to shift the world on its axis and create a world where that stuff just didn't ever happen. The problem with many longtime iconic characters is that if you breach them too far from what made them "popular" in the first place, then they become unrecognizable. Example? The Hulk has run around as "smart Hulk" for years in real time in the 90's. Where's that been now? Nowhere. Has it ever been used in a movie, TV series, etc? No. And it never will be, because "dumb Hulk" was part of the iconic status of the man/monster dynamic. Note that no Spider-Man cartoon or movie has DARED use anything from the canon 616 that happened in the past 10 years; the movies either stripmine Ultimate, or the Silver Age.

Part of Spider-Man's schtick was how he had a "real life" under the mask, and how his superhero life always inconvienced his moderate soap opera "normal life", that on some level a person could relate to. And NO, getting married to "a supermodel" (despite the fact that there've been stretches of time when she wasn't) didn't hurt him, because plenty of men get married to women they are sometimes in awe of. But when you make him an Avenger, move him out of a normal apartment and into Stark Tower with TALKING ROBOT BIRDS, when you remove almost all members of his supporting cast and hardly ever show him at a job, or having a life aside for webs, MJ, and his aunt, and give him nanobot armor and stand him aside Iron Man, well, he becomes more "generic".

Him "unmasking" himself opens some story oppurtunities, yes, if they are handled well. The notion that they will is dubious, considering that THE OTHER was trash, and that the core Spider-book has been reliant on crossovers to boost its sales and importance for the past 8 or so months. And it also takes away that "wall" between Spider-Man and Peter Parker, and between Spidey and the public, and so on. It basically makes him pretty much the same as a billion DC heroes, and if I wanted that...I'd be reading more DC comics. I'd get my fix on that kind of stuff from THE FLASH or GREEN ARROW or so on. I read Spider-Man because I expect some things according to his genre, just as X-Men readers expect things like a school, like Wolverine, like an X on the buckle and some commentary on race relations amidst the sci-fi melodrama. Strip all that away and its X-Men in name only.

The "open-ness" of Spider-Man's identity would be "hot" for about a year, and then Marvel and the fans would lose interest, want to go back (especially as 2007 looms in the corner), and then they'd be in a hole, because "undoing" an identity reveal is a very hard thing to undo without some chees-tastic "coverall" manuver. Dr. Strange rigs up a magic spell with the blood of Purple Man and the hair of Emma Frost, and POOF, all done, with happy thoughts and fairy-dust.

The reveal of DAREDEVIL's alias has also done nothing for him except for turn his life into a big pile of crap heaped on itself. It'll get old in a year. What more can you do to the man? Have the feds shave off his genitals while simultaneously hiring Bullseye to kill his mother? Pfft, I bet some readers would eat that with a spoon. Good as it is, some things become formulaic.

I don't want Spider-Man to share that fate. He's been bungled for years because the powers-that-be always insist on "fixing" what is wrong with him, yet every single damn storyline that has "ruined" Spider-Man within the past 15 or so years has been in an attempt to "jazz" him up, to "fix" him, into something "that is relatable". Meanwhile, what do the movies, the TV shows, usually do? Stick with what works. And when done well, it finds an audience, it grosses a billion worldwide. Heck, even USM sticks with that, and it outsold ASM easily for years, despite JMS, until the crossovers gave ASM a boost. Marvel is always the hare to DC's tortoise at times, always being so fast to race themselves into a corner. CIVIL WAR has some interesting tones to it, but I fear a burning of the bridges. Marvel of all companies should know how quickly editorial decisions can change, and how soon they may want to pull a 180 again, which gets harder if you burn too many bridges behind you. A nanobot suit, an Avengers member-card, a lease at Stark Tower, are all one thing. But revealing his identity to the public like Wally West once did...is a helluva big bridge to burn.

I'd be wary about that one.


*slow clap*

*Deemar joins in*

[stillanerd]

As for the "jumping" of Johnny Storm, circa CIVIL WAR #1 consisering the FANTASTIC FOUR's longtime "open" relationship regarding their secret identities, that just goes to show that being open means those that want to hurt you know EXACTLY where to look.

I definately feel sorry for poor Speedball.

Naturally, the big thing is "will he or won't he" with Spider-Man possibly revealing his identity. Frankly, I feel its a BIG mistake, one that DC made a few years ago with the Flash and other heroes that usually requires some big cheesy "spell" to undo, or some year long cosmic event to shift the world on its axis and create a world where that stuff just didn't ever happen. The problem with many longtime iconic characters is that if you breach them too far from what made them "popular" in the first place, then they become unrecognizable. Example? The Hulk has run around as "smart Hulk" for years in real time in the 90's. Where's that been now? Nowhere. Has it ever been used in a movie, TV series, etc? No. And it never will be, because "dumb Hulk" was part of the iconic status of the man/monster dynamic. Note that no Spider-Man cartoon or movie has DARED use anything from the canon 616 that happened in the past 10 years; the movies either stripmine Ultimate, or the Silver Age.

Part of Spider-Man's schtick was how he had a "real life" under the mask, and how his superhero life always inconvienced his moderate soap opera "normal life", that on some level a person could relate to. And NO, getting married to "a supermodel" (despite the fact that there've been stretches of time when she wasn't) didn't hurt him, because plenty of men get married to women they are sometimes in awe of. But when you make him an Avenger, move him out of a normal apartment and into Stark Tower with TALKING ROBOT BIRDS, when you remove almost all members of his supporting cast and hardly ever show him at a job, or having a life aside for webs, MJ, and his aunt, and give him nanobot armor and stand him aside Iron Man, well, he becomes more "generic".

Him "unmasking" himself opens some story oppurtunities, yes, if they are handled well. The notion that they will is dubious, considering that THE OTHER was trash, and that the core Spider-book has been reliant on crossovers to boost its sales and importance for the past 8 or so months. And it also takes away that "wall" between Spider-Man and Peter Parker, and between Spidey and the public, and so on. It basically makes him pretty much the same as a billion DC heroes, and if I wanted that...I'd be reading more DC comics. I'd get my fix on that kind of stuff from THE FLASH or GREEN ARROW or so on. I read Spider-Man because I expect some things according to his genre, just as X-Men readers expect things like a school, like Wolverine, like an X on the buckle and some commentary on race relations amidst the sci-fi melodrama. Strip all that away and its X-Men in name only.

The "open-ness" of Spider-Man's identity would be "hot" for about a year, and then Marvel and the fans would lose interest, want to go back (especially as 2007 looms in the corner), and then they'd be in a hole, because "undoing" an identity reveal is a very hard thing to undo without some chees-tastic "coverall" manuver. Dr. Strange rigs up a magic spell with the blood of Purple Man and the hair of Emma Frost, and POOF, all done, with happy thoughts and fairy-dust.

The reveal of DAREDEVIL's alias has also done nothing for him except for turn his life into a big pile of crap heaped on itself. It'll get old in a year. What more can you do to the man? Have the feds shave off his genitals while simultaneously hiring Bullseye to kill his mother? Pfft, I bet some readers would eat that with a spoon. Good as it is, some things become formulaic.

I don't want Spider-Man to share that fate. He's been bungled for years because the powers-that-be always insist on "fixing" what is wrong with him, yet every single damn storyline that has "ruined" Spider-Man within the past 15 or so years has been in an attempt to "jazz" him up, to "fix" him, into something "that is relatable". Meanwhile, what do the movies, the TV shows, usually do? Stick with what works. And when done well, it finds an audience, it grosses a billion worldwide. Heck, even USM sticks with that, and it outsold ASM easily for years, despite JMS, until the crossovers gave ASM a boost. Marvel is always the hare to DC's tortoise at times, always being so fast to race themselves into a corner. CIVIL WAR has some interesting tones to it, but I fear a burning of the bridges. Marvel of all companies should know how quickly editorial decisions can change, and how soon they may want to pull a 180 again, which gets harder if you burn too many bridges behind you. A nanobot suit, an Avengers member-card, a lease at Stark Tower, are all one thing. But revealing his identity to the public like Wally West once did...is a helluva big bridge to burn.

I'd be wary about that one.

You summed up my thoughts exactly, but were far more articulate. :up: And of course, given that Spidey unmasks--wearing his original costume that everyone associates with I might add--in front of scores of reporters and on live TV to boot with millions of people watching, it's almost apparent that the only way to undo this is to have Doctor Strange pull a Zatanna or Spectre and "mindwipe" everybody on the planet. You have to look no further than Daredevil to see that Murdock couldn't spin his way out of it, no matter how hard he tried. And even after Tony Stark regained his secret identity as Iron Man, even the public at large knew that he was a "former" Iron Man. It's not like Peter can just say, "Oh, I was only pretending to be Spider-Man" this time. Not EVERYBODY is as obtuse as J. Jonah Jameson, after all.

[deemar325]

*slow clap*

*Deemar joins in*

LOL!!

:up:

[Dread]

Glad that so many people seem to share my sentiment on Spider-Man.

To wit, FRONTLINE #1 made the agruement that somehow superheroes who are for the SHRA act yet don't reveal their identities to the public are somehow hypocritical, which is what led to Iron Man definitively revealing his identity to the public (again). That agruement is dubious, too. Being affiliated with the government is not the same as outing yourself to the public at large, much as its not hypocritical for undercover agents or government spies to keep their ID's secret. Remember the whole Valerie Plame scandal when she was outed to the public as an agent? True, a Spider-Man whose identity is known by anyone with a badge is bad enough, but there is a line between registering with the gov't and outright public outing, and its a shame that apparently Marvel doesn't understand their own story.

Aunt May in ASM compared Spider-Man/Peter to members of Congress, which has been used in MB debates, and that's also a crock. Congress-members don't face dozens of nasty supervillians every week with the potential to be more dangerous than entire platoons of troops like half of Spidey's rogues. They don't personally capture crooks, taunt them, and leave them for hefty prison sentances. They don't have a gallery of said rogues routinely promising death, torture, and mayham upon them and their kin like Spider-Man does. And finally, when a member of Congress does get in trouble, they can easily buy their way out; you "contribute" to my campaign here, and I'll enact legislation to help you there. Its done at both sides of the political spectrum. Police often given government members more "benefit of the doubt" than anyone else; just look at a Kennedy. And no matter what they do, some media outlet somewhere will be on their side. Spider-Man has none of that. Superheroes themselves exist because something in the government is lacking, they can't properly deal with crime or handle the sorts of enemies that crop up without superheroes. Some could say, "Spider-Man's loved ones have been in danger or even killed even with a secret ID", and logic would counter, "then imagine what happens without it". Yeah, I can't picture the gov't keeping MJ & Aunt May any safer than anything else when the chips are down, without essentially making them prisoners.

Don't get me wrong, the issues are well written. But some of the agruements are shakey. The "slippery slope" agruement, of how soon is it until the government dictates who the enemies are, is also sound. Especially since Marvel's government, again, has been more than willing to cut deals with all sorts of ruthless and hard-lined criminals if they were willing to toe the line, from Puppet Master to the cast of THUNDERBOLTS to Jester to the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to even Venom and Sabretooth once upon a time. 90% of the time these villians turn on their "masters" when it becomes convient and go back to breaking the law and hurting others, but these deals contiue. Meanwhile, heroes that have tried to play on the straight and narrow are facing arrest if they don't toe the line themselves; its enough to make even the noblest a little bitter.

[TheCorpulent1]

Glad that so many people seem to share my sentiment on Spider-Man.

To wit, FRONTLINE #1 made the agruement that somehow superheroes who are for the SHRA act yet don't reveal their identities to the public are somehow hypocritical, which is what led to Iron Man definitively revealing his identity to the public (again). That agruement is dubious, too. Being affiliated with the government is not the same as outing yourself to the public at large, much as its not hypocritical for undercover agents or government spies to keep their ID's secret. Remember the whole Valerie Plame scandal when she was outed to the public as an agent? True, a Spider-Man whose identity is known by anyone with a badge is bad enough, but there is a line between registering with the gov't and outright public outing, and its a shame that apparently Marvel doesn't understand their own story.
As I understood it, Tony outed himself publically as a kind of atonement for the times he'd deceived the public with tricks and the technological equivalent of sleight-of-hand. It was his way of making amends and working to build trust between himself and the public. Spider-Man seems to be following suit simply because Tony asked him to and his family's encouraging him.

[Darthphere]

Glad that so many people seem to share my sentiment on Spider-Man.

To wit, FRONTLINE #1 made the agruement that somehow superheroes who are for the SHRA act yet don't reveal their identities to the public are somehow hypocritical, which is what led to Iron Man definitively revealing his identity to the public (again). That agruement is dubious, too. Being affiliated with the government is not the same as outing yourself to the public at large, much as its not hypocritical for undercover agents or government spies to keep their ID's secret. Remember the whole Valerie Plame scandal when she was outed to the public as an agent? True, a Spider-Man whose identity is known by anyone with a badge is bad enough, but there is a line between registering with the gov't and outright public outing, and its a shame that apparently Marvel doesn't understand their own story.

Aunt May in ASM compared Spider-Man/Peter to members of Congress, which has been used in MB debates, and that's also a crock. Congress-members don't face dozens of nasty supervillians every week with the potential to be more dangerous than entire platoons of troops like half of Spidey's rogues. They don't personally capture crooks, taunt them, and leave them for hefty prison sentances. They don't have a gallery of said rogues routinely promising death, torture, and mayham upon them and their kin like Spider-Man does. And finally, when a member of Congress does get in trouble, they can easily buy their way out; you "contribute" to my campaign here, and I'll enact legislation to help you there. Its done at both sides of the political spectrum. Police often given government members more "benefit of the doubt" than anyone else; just look at a Kennedy. And no matter what they do, some media outlet somewhere will be on their side. Spider-Man has none of that. Superheroes themselves exist because something in the government is lacking, they can't properly deal with crime or handle the sorts of enemies that crop up without superheroes. Some could say, "Spider-Man's loved ones have been in danger or even killed even with a secret ID", and logic would counter, "then imagine what happens without it". Yeah, I can't picture the gov't keeping MJ & Aunt May any safer than anything else when the chips are down, without essentially making them prisoners.

Don't get me wrong, the issues are well written. But some of the agruements are shakey. The "slippery slope" agruement, of how soon is it until the government dictates who the enemies are, is also sound. Especially since Marvel's government, again, has been more than willing to cut deals with all sorts of ruthless and hard-lined criminals if they were willing to toe the line, from Puppet Master to the cast of THUNDERBOLTS to Jester to the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to even Venom and Sabretooth once upon a time. 90% of the time these villians turn on their "masters" when it becomes convient and go back to breaking the law and hurting others, but these deals contiue. Meanwhile, heroes that have tried to play on the straight and narrow are facing arrest if they don't toe the line themselves; its enough to make even the noblest a little bitter.


Youre on the ball tonight.:up:

[Dread]

As I understood it, Tony outed himself publically as a kind of atonement for the times he'd deceived the public with tricks and the technological equivalent of sleight-of-hand. It was his way of making amends and working to build trust between himself and the public. Spider-Man seems to be following suit simply because Tony asked him to and his family's encouraging him.
Tony's "outing" also does what I fear will happen to Spider-Man -- doing it in a way in which the bridges are burned down behind him and the editorial department is almost gleefull in its ability to have no "exit strategy" for when the story wares thin, or they (or the fans) lose interest and want to "go back to basics" (how many times have I heard that one). This cost them dearly during the CLONE SAGA.

Marvel should know by now that the ability to "change their mind" and be flexible can be a good one, so leaving inflexible storylines behind them may not be a great aim.

Besides, the task of "undoing" a lot of some of this stuff will be left to the NEXT creative team on whatever book, who will then conviently get all the blame for how "cheesy" it is.

[storyteller]

:)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/UltimateThor/civilwar2.gif




I'm gonna need thors hammer for that........

[stillanerd]

Glad that so many people seem to share my sentiment on Spider-Man.

To wit, FRONTLINE #1 made the agruement that somehow superheroes who are for the SHRA act yet don't reveal their identities to the public are somehow hypocritical, which is what led to Iron Man definitively revealing his identity to the public (again). That agruement is dubious, too. Being affiliated with the government is not the same as outing yourself to the public at large, much as its not hypocritical for undercover agents or government spies to keep their ID's secret. Remember the whole Valerie Plame scandal when she was outed to the public as an agent? True, a Spider-Man whose identity is known by anyone with a badge is bad enough, but there is a line between registering with the gov't and outright public outing, and its a shame that apparently Marvel doesn't understand their own story.

It should be evident that they don't when they are trying to cast this as a "Civil Liberties vs. Security" debate when it's really the "vigilantism vs. police state" argument that Alan Morre demostrated in Watchmen (besides the concept of the public blaming heroes for liability comes straight out of The Incredibles.)

Aunt May in ASM compared Spider-Man/Peter to members of Congress, which has been used in MB debates, and that's also a crock. Congress-members don't face dozens of nasty supervillians every week with the potential to be more dangerous than entire platoons of troops like half of Spidey's rogues. They don't personally capture crooks, taunt them, and leave them for hefty prison sentances. They don't have a gallery of said rogues routinely promising death, torture, and mayham upon them and their kin like Spider-Man does. And finally, when a member of Congress does get in trouble, they can easily buy their way out; you "contribute" to my campaign here, and I'll enact legislation to help you there. Its done at both sides of the political spectrum. Police often given government members more "benefit of the doubt" than anyone else; just look at a Kennedy. And no matter what they do, some media outlet somewhere will be on their side. Spider-Man has none of that. Superheroes themselves exist because something in the government is lacking, they can't properly deal with crime or handle the sorts of enemies that crop up without superheroes. Some could say, "Spider-Man's loved ones have been in danger or even killed even with a secret ID", and logic would counter, "then imagine what happens without it". Yeah, I can't picture the gov't keeping MJ & Aunt May any safer than anything else when the chips are down, without essentially making them prisoners.

Somebody on another message board highlighted this particular dialogue:

May: Every day, prosecutors and judges and governors and senators go to work, knowing their loved ones may be jeopardized by their work. But they don't wear masks to work. Do you know why?

Peter: I don't know, Aunt May...why?

May: Because their loved ones want it that way. Because they would rather die than see the face they love, the face that gives so much to the world, covered in shame. Some things are worth the risk, Peter. You're one of them.

Okay, so in other words, the reason Aunt May (and thus JMS) thinks that Peter became Spider-Man was because he was ashamed of who he was and that if he unmasked then everybody will like him more? Um, news flash, Marvel, Peter originally wore a disguise because he realized he nobody would take a 15 year old kid seriously, much less let him compete, if he stepped into the wrestling ring. He wore the Spider-Man costume later on because it was supposed to be the kind of thing a colorful entertainer would wear. And, after his Uncle Ben died and he became a crimefighter, he kept the mask on in order to both protect his loved ones from reprisals, avoid getting arrested, and because his Aunt May's heart wouldn't be able to take the shock at the time. But more importantly, here's why he has a secret identity, and this guy sums it up nicely:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12531&PN=1&TPN=5

Do you know why "prosecutors and judges and governors and senators" don't wear costumes? Because they aren't superheroes. Do you know why Spider-Man does? Because he is. Period. End o' discussion. Not because he's ashamed of who he is, not because he's trying to hide from the world, and not because it's a promise he made at 16 (another f**king thing JMS had May say that pisses me off to no end). He does it because that's what superheroes do. He does it because he took his responsibility to his family and friends seriously. He does it, quite frankly, because it's fun.

[stillanerd]

Tony's "outing" also does what I fear will happen to Spider-Man -- doing it in a way in which the bridges are burned down behind him and the editorial department is almost gleefull in its ability to have no "exit strategy" for when the story wares thin, or they (or the fans) lose interest and want to "go back to basics" (how many times have I heard that one). This cost them dearly during the CLONE SAGA.

Marvel should know by now that the ability to "change their mind" and be flexible can be a good one, so leaving inflexible storylines behind them may not be a great aim.

Besides, the task of "undoing" a lot of some of this stuff will be left to the NEXT creative team on whatever book, who will then conviently get all the blame for how "cheesy" it is.

Bingo. It's the 90s all over again.

[TheCorpulent1]

Tony's "outing" also does what I fear will happen to Spider-Man -- doing it in a way in which the bridges are burned down behind him and the editorial department is almost gleefull in its ability to have no "exit strategy" for when the story wares thin, or they (or the fans) lose interest and want to "go back to basics" (how many times have I heard that one). This cost them dearly during the CLONE SAGA.

Marvel should know by now that the ability to "change their mind" and be flexible can be a good one, so leaving inflexible storylines behind them may not be a great aim.

Besides, the task of "undoing" a lot of some of this stuff will be left to the NEXT creative team on whatever book, who will then conviently get all the blame for how "cheesy" it is.
Well, they've always got the standard deus ex machinas in place still. Wanda or Franklin could spontaneously regain their powers, Loki could show up and magically set things back to the way they were for his debt to Spider-Man, Reed and Strange could pull their super-nifty Sentry Forget-O-Matic, only with all the heroes' secret IDs this time instead of the Sentry's existence... hell, Proteus could stop by the 616 universe with the Exiles on his tail and change things on a whim.

[CaptainStacy]

The reveal of DAREDEVIL's alias has also done nothing for him except for turn his life into a big pile of crap heaped on itself. It'll get old in a year. What more can you do to the man? Have the feds shave off his genitals while simultaneously hiring Bullseye to kill his mother? Pfft, I bet some readers would eat that with a spoon. Good as it is, some things become formulaic.


So you're concerned that the present storyline being used in DD is going to become "formulaic", yet right before that, you say you read an X-Men book expecting to see racial commentary, and X's on belt buckles, etc.....arent those "formulas" that have been used and used again for DECADES? Why is one formula acceptable, and another is not? Your statement makes zero sense.

Is it because the older formulas are "safe" in that we have become comfortable with them over time?

That's what grabs my ass with Spider-Man fans; I am SO sick of being told that Spider-Man is "about a guy who is inconvienienced wearing a costume"....or that he "has to work at the Daily Bugle", or whatever

No. It's not.

The only thing that Spider-Man has to "be about", is a young man with a tremendous level of guilt, and an extraordinary sense of responsibility.

Period.

The problem is, that every writer that comes on board feels the need to riff off of Lee & Ditko, and the end result is comfortable staleness.

I honestly believe that Spider-Man's story can still be told with the essence of the character fully intact, whether the public knows who he is, or not.

[deemar325]

Tony's "outing" also does what I fear will happen to Spider-Man -- doing it in a way in which the bridges are burned down behind him and the editorial department is almost gleefull in its ability to have no "exit strategy" for when the story wares thin, or they (or the fans) lose interest and want to "go back to basics" (how many times have I heard that one). This cost them dearly during the CLONE SAGA.

Marvel should know by now that the ability to "change their mind" and be flexible can be a good one, so leaving inflexible storylines behind them may not be a great aim.

Besides, the task of "undoing" a lot of some of this stuff will be left to the NEXT creative team on whatever book, who will then conviently get all the blame for how "cheesy" it is.

I'd like to add that Tony is a billionaire with security and other major resources at his disposal, plus he for the most part doesn't have any family let alone a wife and elderly Aunt.

Marvel if they reveal Spidey's ID are so gonna need a 'Crisis' after all the stunts Joey Q and his cronies have pulled over the last six years.

[deemar325]

Well, they've always got the standard deus ex machinas in place still. Wanda or Franklin could spontaneously regain their powers, Loki could show up and magically set things back to the way they were for his debt to Spider-Man, Reed and Strange could pull their super-nifty Sentry Forget-O-Matic, only with all the heroes' secret IDs this time instead of the Sentry's existence... hell, Proteus could stop by the 616 universe with the Exiles on his tail and change things on a whim.

Damn dude your right!! Sentry could pull his little forget-o-matic out of the box and cheaply clean things up for Marvel.

[Dread]

So you're concerned that the present storyline being used in DD is going to become "formulaic", yet right before that, you say you read an X-Men book expecting to see racial commentary, and X's on belt buckles, etc.....arent those "formulas" that have been used and used again for DECADES? Why is one formula acceptable, and another is not? Your statement makes zero sense.

Is it because the older formulas are "safe" in that we have become comfortable with them over time?

That's what grabs my ass with Spider-Man fans; I am SO sick of being told that Spider-Man is "about a guy who is inconvienienced wearing a costume"....or that he "has to work at the Daily Bugle", or whatever

No. It's not.

The only thing that Spider-Man has to "be about", is a young man with a tremendous level of guilt, and an extraordinary sense of responsibility.

Period.

The problem is, that every writer that comes on board feels the need to riff off of Lee & Ditko, and the end result is comfortable staleness.

I honestly believe that Spider-Man's story can still be told with the essence of the character fully intact, whether the public knows who he is, or not.
I just feel that the identity thing could be a big final straw. Especially since how it would be handled is debatable considering the quality of some of the more recent Spider-"events". It IS a delicate balance between being faithful to the character and straying so far beyond the borders of the character that it becomes something else, which may or may not fly so well. Like if the Punisher died and decided to be an angelic slayer of demons. It was a huge deviation from the "formula", and it tanked. It IS a delicate balance between making exciting new stories and totally moving into territory that may not suit the character. Hence why comic writing is an art, not to be taken lightly. When you watch a James Bond movie, there are certain things you expect. You don't expect him to fight aliens, or to see flashback sequences of him being bullied in a U.K. gradeschool by metal-toothed bullies. You can have new directions and characters and so on, but you can't stray too far without it becoming, or feeling, like something else. Many comic heroes, who've been around just as long as Bond and become as iconic, seem simular.

Good stories COULD be told with an "identity reveal", but inevitably there would be a return to the status quo, and then we'd have a whole "just kidding" sort of fixer upper that makes one question why they bother in the first place. I still contend that many comics get into their biggest issues with feeling the need to "jazz things up".

It all comes down to taste. I just miss solid storytelling over needs to "fix" or to "make events" or to "jazz up". The audience is there and you can build that sort of drama without needing to rebuild the foundations.

Well, they've always got the standard deus ex machinas in place still. Wanda or Franklin could spontaneously regain their powers, Loki could show up and magically set things back to the way they were for his debt to Spider-Man, Reed and Strange could pull their super-nifty Sentry Forget-O-Matic, only with all the heroes' secret IDs this time instead of the Sentry's existence... hell, Proteus could stop by the 616 universe with the Exiles on his tail and change things on a whim.
Quite true. Of course, it begs the question, "why go that far in the first place?" Isn't CIVIL WAR an interesting enough concept that it doesn't need to resort to the sort of "last ditch, no way out" shock tactics that need cosmic reset buttons? Can't it fly by questioning the very foundation of superhero genre, which is vigilante heroes?

It reminds me of those old movie serials, that would pile on one more ridiculous-to-escape senerio after the next, only to emerge with a solution that felt anti-climatic. The solution is to be more reasonable that your "outs" don't feel as extreme, but natural.

Granted, "natural" in comics can be a tricky thing. :D

[stillanerd]

So you're concerned that the present storyline being used in DD is going to become "formulaic", yet right before that, you say you read an X-Men book expecting to see racial commentary, and X's on belt buckles, etc.....arent those "formulas" that have been used and used again for DECADES? Why is one formula acceptable, and another is not? Your statement makes zero sense.

I it because the older formulas are "safe" in that we have become comfortable with them over time?

That's what grabs my ass with Spider-Man fans; I am SO sick of being told that Spider-Man is "about a guy who is inconvienienced wearing a costume"....or that he "has to work at the Daily Bugle", or whatever

No. It's not.

The only thing that Spider-Man has to "be about", is a young man with a tremendous level of guilt, and an extraordinary sense of responsibility.

Period.

The problem is, that every writer that comes on board feels the need to riff off of Lee & Ditko, and the end result is comfortable staleness.

I honestly believe that Spider-Man's story can still be told with the essence of the character fully intact, whether the public knows who he is, or not.

The only problem with that is that Peter Parker having a secret identity is also tied to who he is as a character. Besides the guilt factor and trying to live by the creed "With Great Power comes greater responsibility," one of the qualities that made the character attractive was that Peter always tried to maintain some sense of a normal life outside of being Spider-Man. The fact that he is unmasked and everyone knows flys in the face of that because, as the Fantastic Four shows, if everybody knows that you are a superhero with no secret identity, you're a public figure and having some form of any kind of a normal life outside of the public arena is practically nil given today's tabloid mentality. Behind the mask, Peter Parker is supposed to be an ordinary guy. Of course, you can say that him becoming a respected photographer; being married to a successful supermodel/actress; being a member of the Avengers; living in a luxury apartment rent free; and being the "chosen one" (or not) of some new age, mystical spider totems--heck, even his bitten by a radioactive (or is it magical) spider and being an underappreciated scientific genius also does that. However, the idea was that, outside of being Spider-Man, he had to work a regular job, pay his bills, study, maintain relationships, and take care of his loved ones like everybody else--all on top of his other life as a superhero. Plus, his supporting cast were mostly ordinary people as well, as opposed to say a super-soldier, a billionaire industrilist wearing high-tech armor, a mutant, a secret agent, etc.

And you know what? It IS going to be undone. It's apparently been Joe Q strategy for awhile now: start with a template, see how far you can tweak the template, and then attempt to fix it somehow back to the way it was for the next batch that comes along. Question is, just how much could get screwed up in the process trying to repair what was intentionally broken?

[TheCorpulent1]

The fact that he's been living with the New Avengers for a year kind of already took that factor out of the equation, didn't it? :confused:
Quite true. Of course, it begs the question, "why go that far in the first place?" Isn't CIVIL WAR an interesting enough concept that it doesn't need to resort to the sort of "last ditch, no way out" shock tactics that need cosmic reset buttons? Can't it fly by questioning the very foundation of superhero genre, which is vigilante heroes?

It reminds me of those old movie serials, that would pile on one more ridiculous-to-escape senerio after the next, only to emerge with a solution that felt anti-climatic. The solution is to be more reasonable that your "outs" don't feel as extreme, but natural.

Granted, "natural" in comics can be a tricky thing. :D
One could argue that last-minute solutions and deus ex machinas are as much a staple of comics as bright colors and spandex. I won't, but they've certainly been around as long as the latter. ;)

[Dread]

One could argue that last-minute solutions and deus ex machinas are as much a staple of comics as bright colors and spandex. I won't, but they've certainly been around as long as the latter. ;)
Touche'.

[stillanerd]

The fact that he's been living with the New Avengers for a year kind of already took that factor out of the equation, didn't it? :confused:

Exactly! My point is that the strategy going on with Spider-Man is "let's see how far we can get away from the traditional template of the character before we turn around and restore that template." It has to happen sooner or later because otherwise you end up with a character who calls himself "Spider-Man" but has little of the things that made him a popular character in the first place. The question being raised is "How far is too far?" and "What exactly is their back-up plan if their 'solution' doesn't work?" These were the kinds of things Marvel should've asked themselves during the whole "Clone Saga" debacle and people are starting to wonder if Marvel has actually learned anything.

Hopefully, one of the goals in mind for Civil War is to "restore" something resembling a "traditional" status quo for Spider-Man, but with the very public unmasking, the only "solution" that's out there seems to be the deus ex machina of the "magical mindwipe" already used countless times by DC.

[deemar325]

Stillanerd has a seriously valid point, what is it gonna take for Marvel to understand we love Spidey as is, just tell solid stories with good art and we'll be happy with the results.

It's almost if Marvel(Joey Q) feels that they have to completely destroy Spidey and the Marvel U. for that matter and piss us off enough so that they have too start a company wide reboot. It feels premeditated.

[deemar325]

Exactly! My point is that the strategy going on with Spider-Man is "let's see how far we can get away from the traditional template of the character before we turn around and restore that template." It has to happen sooner or later because otherwise you end up with character who calls himself "Spider-Man" but has little of the things that made him a popular character in the first place. The question being raised is "How far is too far?" and "What exactly is their back-up plan if their 'solution' doesn't work?" These were the kinds of things Marvel should've asked themselves during the whole "Clone Saga" debacle and people are starting to wonder if Marvel has actually learned anything.

Hopefully, one of the goals in mind for Civil War is to "restore" something resembling a "traditional" status quo for Spider-Man, but with the very public unmasking, the only "solution" that's out there seems to be the deus ex machina of the "magical mindwipe" already used countless times by DC.

I see no way out other than a total reboot, if they go through with revealing Spidey's ID.

You can't comeback from that without some lame cop-out.

[stillanerd]

^^^^
And not just for Spidey, either but probably for any Marvel hero who had his or her identity revealed in the past and wants it secret again, perhaps due to the courtesy of one Doctor Stephen Strange.

Stillanerd has a seriously valid point, what is it gonna take for Marvel to understand we love Spidey as is, just tell solid stories with good art and we'll be happy with the results.

It's almost if Marvel(Joey Q) feels that they have to completely destroy Spidey and the Marvel U. for that matter and piss us off enough so that they have too start a company wide reboot. It feels premeditated.

Not to mention a complete rip-off of the competition if that's what they're after.

[Vanguard07]

Yeah they're always on the verge of going too far but they're right to do that. It works. We're all here waiting to see if they're actually gonna cross that threshhold and most of us are interested in it. We may be pissed off to one degree or another but they're selling their comics either way. And they're gonna keep selling them because we're all hooked on that status quo and since they keep going back to it they keep getting fresh chances at hooking new readers with it.

Basically i'm saying Spiderman is awesome and everybody loves him. And they own Spiderman and they're in control of him. As long as they keep writing his stories they decide what's "true to the character" and what isnt.

For me personally. As long as Spiderman is still Peter Parker and he's still one of the most brilliant but underrated minds on the planet. And he's still a guilt driven ridiculously selfless, wise cracking guy in tights I'm sold. He's Spiderman and thats enough for me.

Everyone's life goes through changes, why can't Spidey's?

[deemar325]

Now I'm depressed.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah they're always on the verge of going too far but they're right to do that. It works. We're all here waiting to see if they're actually gonna cross that threshhold and most of us are interested in it. We may be pissed off to one degree or another but they're selling their comics either way. And they're gonna keep selling them because we're all hooked on that status quo and since they keep going back to it they keep getting fresh chances at hooking new readers with it.

Basically i'm saying Spiderman is awesome and everybody loves him. And they own Spiderman and they're in control of him. As long as they keep writing his stories they decide what's "true to the character" and what isnt.

For me personally. As long as Spiderman is still Peter Parker and he's still one of the most brilliant but underrated minds on the planet. And he's still a guilt driven ridiculously selfless, wise cracking guy in tights I'm sold. He's Spiderman and thats enough for me.

Everyone's life goes through changes, why can't Spidey's?
I think Ben Urich (the poster, not the character) summed it up nicely:
The difference being, of course, that the status quo in Marvel changes once or twice a month, while DC manages to keep continuity basically straight for a few years.
I can't speak for everyone, but I tend to favor a stable base for characters with the occasional shake-up couched in strong stories that show those characters at their best. DC delivered on that for years before Infinite Crisis hit, and it looks like things are now stabilizing again. My problem with Spider-Man lately is that he hasn't had time to let the dust settle and deal with any of the major shake-ups he's had. He's just been bouncing from life-altering event to life-altering event, from joining the New Avengers to "Sins Past" to "The Other" to Civil War, with no time to actually get any depth out of the changes each one brings. Lots of story potential is falling through the cracks, in my opinion.

[Dread]

I think Ben Urich (the poster, not the character) summed it up nicely:

I can't speak for everyone, but I tend to favor a stable base for characters with the occasional shake-up couched in strong stories that show those characters at their best. DC delivered on that for years before Infinite Crisis hit, and it looks like things are now stabilizing again. My problem with Spider-Man lately is that he hasn't had time to let the dust settle and deal with any of the major shake-ups he's had. He's just been bouncing from life-altering event to life-altering event, from joining the New Avengers to "Sins Past" to "The Other" to Civil War, with no time to actually get any depth out of the changes each one brings. Lots of story potential is falling through the cracks, in my opinion.
That's true. I mean, he barely had a chance to really use any of his "power boosts" from The Queen, circa 2004, before THE OTHER and so on, and that's only one example. You'd hardly know he's gotten new powers over the past two years for chrissakes. Not that he needed 'em...

[deemar325]

Damn you guys got a point yet again on Spidey.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's true. I mean, he barely had a chance to really use any of his "power boosts" from The Queen, circa 2004, before THE OTHER and so on, and that's only one example. You'd hardly know he's gotten new powers over the past two years for chrissakes. Not that he needed 'em...
Exactly. I hate Bucky's resurrection every bit as much as I hated "The Other," but the reason I've been able to deal with the former so much better--even to the point of accepting it and moving past it to just enjoy the story--is because Brubaker has devoted the necessary time to fleshing out Cap's reactions to it and letting the idea sink in before moving onto the next thing. If Bru had brought Bucky back, then gone to another arc where it's revealed that Sharon Carter's been an LMD for the last 15 years, then moved to another arc where the Super-Soldier Serum malfunctions and Cap has to go through some weird trials where he gains new powers, then moved to yet another arc with another major change, it'd be just as jarring and slipshod as Spider-Man's been lately and, Brubaker or not, I'd have dropped Cap's comic long ago.

[Ben Urich]

Spidey got new powers :confused:

[Dread]

Exactly. I hate Bucky's resurrection every bit as much as I hated "The Other," but the reason I've been able to deal with the former so much better--even to the point of accepting it and moving past it to just enjoy the story--is because Brubaker has devoted the necessary time to fleshing out Cap's reactions to it and letting the idea sink in before moving onto the next thing. If Bru had brought Bucky back, then gone to another arc where it's revealed that Sharon Carter's been an LMD for the last 15 years, then moved to another arc where the Super-Soldier Serum malfunctions and Cap has to go through some weird trials where he gains new powers, then moved to yet another arc with another major change, it'd be just as jarring and slipshod as Spider-Man's been lately and, Brubaker or not, I'd have dropped Cap's comic long ago.
Its like I've said before, too much focus on "events" or "jazzing him up" and all that, without the substance to go with it. A parade of events is not a story. A story requires something more.

[stillanerd]

Spidey got new powers :confused:

Uh huh. These included night vision, vibrational sensitivity thru his webbing, the ability to stick things all over his body (which he already had BTW) and these babies:

http://yourmomsbasement.com/images/General/spidey1.jpg

Which first manifested in this scene from the "saga" that would forever "change Spidey's status quo," "The Other: Evolve or Die"

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8775/badface37zp.jpg

Aka "Spider-Man dies and is reborn as a Wolverine knock-off."

[Ben Urich]

So with those things and the Iron Spider suit he's had 2 power upgrades in the past 2 years?
Why? :confused:

[deemar325]

Spidey got new powers :confused:

Yeah if you can call it that, for the most part it's enhancements on his original powers plus more spider-like attributes such as fangs w/venom and organic webbing and f-cking spikes that come out of his wrists!


So in a nutshell, Marvel has lost it's mind.

[Vanguard07]

Haha actually when you think about Spiderman's stories over the past couple of years he should be at least 50% stronger, faster, more agile etc than he was in the late 90's plus all kinds of other new stuff like the 360 degree vision, the talking to bugs, the hypersensitive motion detection through his webbing, the organic webbing, the stingers etc.

They should deffinitely update his bio and do an upcoming arc where he actually gets to USE his new stuff.
Give us a chance to really get a feel for the "2006" Spiderman and what he can really do.

... Actually i'm just looking for any excuse i can find for another chance for Spidey to really cut loose. When that man goes all out it's pants-creamingly epic.

[stillanerd]

So with those things and the Iron Spider suit he's had 2 power upgrades in the past 2 years?
Why? :confused:

Correction. THREE power upgrades in the past 2 years.

He transformed into a giant spider, gave birth to himself, and was able to have organic webbing and talk to insects (Spectacular Spider-Man: Avengers Disassembled)

Then came the Other and the "Iron Spidey" suit back-to-back within a period of five months. And guess what, Joe Q and JMS later admitted that "the Other" and the "Iron Spidey" suit kinda sucked so THIS TIME they're planning on another mini-series in 2007 to "fix" him.......again.

[deemar325]

Haha actually when you think about Spiderman's stories over the past couple of years he should be at least 50% stronger, faster, more agile etc than he was in the late 90's plus all kinds of other new stuff like the 360 degree vision, the talking to bugs, the hypersensitive motion detection through his webbing, the organic webbing, the stingers etc.

They should deffinitely update his bio and do an upcoming arc where he actually gets to USE his new stuff.
Give us a chance to really get a feel for the "2006" Spiderman and what he can really do.

... Actually i'm just looking for any excuse i can find for another chance for Spidey to really cut loose. When that man goes all out it's pants-creamingly epic.

*Groan*

If I have to look at those spidey stingers again I'm gonna fly to New York myself and b-tch slap Joey Q and JMS.

[deemar325]

Correction. THREE power upgrades in the past 2 years.

He transformed into a giant spider, gave birth to himself, and was able to have organic webbing and talk to incests (Spectacular Spider-Man: Avengers Disassembled)

Then came the Other and the "Iron Spidey" suit back-to-back within a period of five months. And guess what, Joe Q and JMS later admitted that "the Other" and the "Iron Spidey" suit kinda sucked so THIS TIME they're planning on another mini-series in 2007 to "fix" him.......again.

Spidey can talk to inbred hillbillies now?

West Virginia look out here comes the spider-man!!!

[stillanerd]

Spidey can talk to inbred hillbillies now?

West Virginia look out here comes the spider-man!!!

:O Cue the dueling banjos music:

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/07/36/39/image_339367.jpg

[Vanguard07]

*Groan*

If I have to look at those spidey stingers again I'm gonna fly to New York myself and b-tch slap Joey Q and JMS.

Haha agreed my friend.
to paraphrase vince vaughn from Anchorman: "deep down, with every inch of me I pure... Straight... HATE those stingers."

But still at least they've already set up their retcon to get rid of them.
(they're mystical in nature and only respond to mystical threats. I'm assuming that the mystical threat of "the other" in particular is their reasoning. They deal with "the other" character [the lady made of spiders] and they could just have the stingers go away forever.)

And In all fairness I dont mind the rest of the stuff they've given him. Even the new costume is pretty cool (aside from the iron man colors)

Like I said. I'm just really aching to see Spider-man let loose again. It's been too long and it's always oh so sweet.
I'm sick of most comic fans and the whole MU constantly underestimating Spidey's abilities.

[deemar325]

:O Cue the dueling banjos music:

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/07/36/39/image_339367.jpg

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeez louise!! that looks like a guy I work with.

[deemar325]

Haha agreed my friend.
to paraphrase vince vaughn from Anchorman: "deep down, with every inch of me I pure... Straight... HATE those stingers."

But still at least they've already set up their retcon to get rid of them.
(they're mystical in nature and only respond to mystical threats. I'm assuming that the mystical threat of "the other" in particular is their reasoning. They deal with "the other" character [the lady made of spiders] and they could just have the stingers go away forever.)

And In all fairness I dont mind the rest of the stuff they've given him. Even the new costume is pretty cool (aside from the iron man colors)

Like I said. I'm just really aching to see Spider-man let loose again. It's been too long and it's always oh so sweet.
I'm sick of most comic fans and the whole MU constantly underestimating Spidey's abilities.

I hear ya I'm just sick of the JMS crap, I haven't bought a Spidey comic consistantly going two years now, I hate that I'm forced to stop reading about my favorite superhero on a regular basis; because some hollywood has been sci-fi writer is taking a piss on my hero.

It's sickening.

[Vanguard07]

To be fair to JMS I absolutely LOVED his stuff around the time of the first appearance of Morlun and Ezekial and such. The little bit of exploration into the totem forces was really cool. But then he went and pushed it WAAAAAAY too far.
The Other was bull.

[kiuju2k]

Thats what i'm sayin. Bring wanda in to clean this all up if it goes really bad.

[Red]

Is anyone with Iron Man?

[Anubis]

There are a quite a few people that agree with IM's stance on this. He might be a prick, but he does have a point.

[SpideyInATree]

Yeah, only because one man and one editor have decided it so. Before JMS and Quesada, youre going to tell me this would ever have happened? Hell no.

How do you know? Without them it could have happened sooner. Or they could have messed up Spider-Man worse. There is no way of knowing.

[SpideyInATree]

The only problem with that is that Peter Parker having a secret identity is also tied to who he is as a character. Besides the guilt factor and trying to live by the creed "With Great Power comes greater responsibility," one of the qualities that made the character attractive was that Peter always tried to maintain some sense of a normal life outside of being Spider-Man. The fact that he is unmasked and everyone knows flys in the face of that because, as the Fantastic Four shows, if everybody knows that you are a superhero with no secret identity, you're a public figure and having some form of any kind of a normal life outside of the public arena is practically nil given today's tabloid mentality. Behind the mask, Peter Parker is supposed to be an ordinary guy. Of course, you can say that him becoming a respected photographer; being married to a successful supermodel/actress; being a member of the Avengers; living in a luxury apartment rent free; and being the "chosen one" (or not) of some new age, mystical spider totems--heck, even his bitten by a radioactive (or is it magical) spider and being an underappreciated scientific genius also does that. However, the idea was that, outside of being Spider-Man, he had to work a regular job, pay his bills, study, maintain relationships, and take care of his loved ones like everybody else--all on top of his other life as a superhero. Plus, his supporting cast were mostly ordinary people as well, as opposed to say a super-soldier, a billionaire industrilist wearing high-tech armor, a mutant, a secret agent, etc.

And you know what? It IS going to be undone. It's apparently been Joe Q strategy for awhile now: start with a template, see how far you can tweak the template, and then attempt to fix it somehow back to the way it was for the next batch that comes along. Question is, just how much could get screwed up in the process trying to repair what was intentionally broken?

The secret identity does have a lot to do with who he is as a character. It's why they are making such a big deal out of this revelation. But it's always been a battle between Peter Parker and Spider-Man throughout all these years.

How do I balance Peter Parker and Spider-Man?

We've seen him give up being Spider-Man and get rid of his costume because the toll of being Spider-Man was weighing heavily on his life as Peter Parker, causing so much disruption with his relationships.

But he realized that he had a responsibility to uphold as Spider-Man and returned.

Now Peter is going to take the mask off and show the world that Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Now do you think maybe how LIBERATING that might be for Peter to do that? After all those years of lying to peoples faces and having to make excuses to people. He can combine his life as Peter Parker with the life of Spider-Man and make them one. He no longer has to lie to people and walk around subjects as to not give up his identity.

Once again, I understand you're appoaching this from a fans point of view. But what about the character? Don't you think that after a little over a decade (in comic book time) of being Spider-Man that Peter might feel good about revealing it? About lifting all that weight and all that decieving off of his shoulders?

Maybe people should test themselves and see how long they can lead a double life without people suspecting something is wrong. And lying to loved ones, friends, and acquaintances because you have an undying fear of your enemies figuring out your secret.

Things have changed with the character since the beginning of the story. It's not the same Peter Parker we once read in Amazing Fantasy 15, he's grown up now. And as CaptainStacy pointed out earlier in the thread. Isn't what Peter is doing what is in his character to do? Taking responsibility? Making sure that he can step up and be the hero that he needs to be?

I understand that people are going to be upset. And it's pretty obvious in this thread and in the Spidey forums...but I think too many people are letting personal feelings on the character and the past storylines get in the way of what exactly is going on in the story.

I mean you're talking about a guy who's supporting cast was regular people. But things have seriously changed since then.

It basically sounds to me, and don't take it the wrong way, but you want Peter Parker/Spider-Man to live in circa 1970's for the rest of his comic book life. And that's not the case. Some people grow up and meet new and interesting people. And then some of us grow up and stay around the same old flock of people for the rest of our lives. Nothing is wrong with that, neither are wrong, but it's two different experiences.

But my personal feelings aside and with the Peter Parker character in mind. Don't you think it'd be the most liberating feeling to finally combine the life of Peter Parker and Spider-Man insteaed of hiding it from everybody? It feels good not to hide things from people anymore and I'm sure a lot of people can relate with that.

[stillanerd]

There are a quite a few people that agree with IM's stance on this. He might be a prick, but he does have a point.

Especially if you take what another Marvel scribe Dan Slott said about the issue: If the Marvel Universe is a place where, despite the Hulk leveling buildings, everybody still survives, which is part of the conciet of the superhero genre, then Captain America's side is right. But, the Marvel Universe is a place where heroes unintentionally cause the deaths of innocent poeple--just like the New Warriors in Stamford--then heroes need to be held accountable so Iron Man is right, end of discussion. Problem is that, it appears Millar is emphasizing the idea of "civil liberties vs. security" more so than the "vigilantism vs. centralized authority" argument. As a result, we're supposed to believe that the registering of superheroes violates their freedoms by telling them "either you work as federal agents for the government or be treated like any other person who takes the law into their own hands." And yet almost everyone of the superheroes in the Marvel Universe became crimefighters by choice. Nobody said they HAD to use their powers, abilities, or equipment for fighting against evil and injustice--they did that on their own. Spider-Man was once a wrestler/entertainer before the murder of his Uncle Ben made him become a crimefighter; Captain America volunteered for military service AND the super-soldier experiment; and Iron Man, even though his heart condition forced him to wear high-tech armor, still decided to use his technology to fight threats as a superhero. It seems like while on the one hand Marvel is presenting a world in which the heroes are held accountable for their actions, we're NOT supposed to be rooting for the registration side given the characterizations of we've been getting from Agent Hill and the Iron Man as of late, and how only the anti-registration heroes are interested in being superheroes while the pro-registration side just wants to hunt them down, even hiring questionable characters like Baron Zemo to do it. While we may be getting an understanding of where each side in Civil War is coming from, it seems evident that the "anti-registration" side of things are getting far more favorable treatment than those who are for registration.

[Anubis]

This is true.

[Dread]

Is anyone with Iron Man?
Logically speaking, the SHRA does make sense, in that it allows superheroes to get government training, possible protection for loved ones, a network of allies no doubt, and a paycheck most likely. They will have something bigger to fall back on. While of course the MU's government is almost more corrupt at times than our actual one, and that the SHRA is a slippery-slope away from just drafting a metahuman army like Russia used to do during their Soviet days, I could imagine some heroes would be for it. Who wouldn't want a cushy government paycheck for what they're already doing? If they don't happen to have too many loved ones, or much of a secret identity to begin with, why not?

The problem of course is that:

1). Comics in general are written by Liberals, and the SHRA is the obvious Conservative agruement. I am not trying to fan political flames here. I am not saying that this is in any way wrong. It is simply a fact. Most comics have a liberal bias because the writers are usually liberal and writing for mostly liberals (Marvel is based and run in NYC, one of the bluest states of the union, after all), and so you can be pretty sure that in the end, the liberal side will triumph, or be proven correct in some way. This is the way comics have been for a good long time, and they've made this point even moreso since our current President has been elected, and re-elected. But this fact didn't diminish when Clinton was around either, at least from a major standpoint in the medium.

2). If the SHRA passes, that means the end of the genre as we know it, because a fleet of titles about paid, sold, and registered super-soldiers won't fly (although I could imagine one title starring a "registered striketeam" could do quite well afterwards). Despite a lot of pessimism I have about Spider-Man and other things, we know, or hope, that Marvel won't dig themselves into THAT much of a hole and that they won't risk rewriting their entire genre.

Story-wise, Hank Pym and Reed "Narc" Richards are on Iron Man's side. Urich is only reporting on that side because his paper the BUGLE has a pro-SHRA bias (further showing that the more Liberal side is correct) and he's just towing the line to keep his job. Cover-art shows other heroes, but I'd rather wait for actual given material. Right now, Spider-Man is also on the SHRA side, but only because he's Stark's whore right now, and I expect that to change (otherwise there'd be no drama).

[Colossal Spoons]

Not only will Peter leave Stark's side, but it'll probably result in the loss of the Iron-Spidey suit :(

[Anubis]

It'll probally result in the death of Aunt May or MJ, or both.

[Colossal Spoons]

It'll probally result in the death of Aunt May or MJ, or both.

Yeah, I don't see them living through CW either :(

[SpideyInATree]

I highly doubt that. I believe someone in the Spider-Man forums had a great idea about the retcon that fit with what Quesada and JMS were hinting at when they said they were taking Spidey back to the Lee/Ditko roots.

I doubt we'll see any death but if MJ dies there will be no sympathy from me what so ever. :o

[Colossal Spoons]

Why not? Who dislikes MJ.

[SpideyInATree]

Why not? Who dislikes MJ.

I don't dislike her, she's a good character when written right. And only two writers have done that, JMS and J.M. DeMatteis.

But I've disliked the marriage to her. Not marriage but just to her. Never made sense to me, still doesn't. So, if she gets offed I have no sympathy.

Plus I love the single Peter Parker stories and wouldn't mind seeing those again sometime.

[Anubis]

I don't usually make silly statements like, I'll drop this book or whatever because this person got killed or whatever, because I have always felt it was a stupid reason to drop a book. But if they kill MJ off, I really will drop all the Spidey books. Not because I love MJ or anything like that. Over the last three or four years, i've soured on Spidey as a character. The stories written about him hasn't helped either. Not that they suck, just, nothing spectacular. Nothing that makes me get why people hold this loser in such high regard. If MJ dies, then, I guess a part of the Spidey books that I actually enjoy, which would be they're relationship, will die. And if thats the case, then i'd just as soon be done with the character all together.

[stillanerd]

The secret identity does have a lot to do with who he is as a character. It's why they are making such a big deal out of this revelation. But it's always been a battle between Peter Parker and Spider-Man throughout all these years.

How do I balance Peter Parker and Spider-Man?

We've seen him give up being Spider-Man and get rid of his costume because the toll of being Spider-Man was weighing heavily on his life as Peter Parker, causing so much disruption with his relationships.

But he realized that he had a responsibility to uphold as Spider-Man and returned.

Now Peter is going to take the mask off and show the world that Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Now do you think maybe how LIBERATING that might be for Peter to do that? After all those years of lying to peoples faces and having to make excuses to people. He can combine his life as Peter Parker with the life of Spider-Man and make them one. He no longer has to lie to people and walk around subjects as to not give up his identity.

But like I said, Peter was the kind of person who wanted to lead as normal of a life as he could outside of being a superhero. And yes, he comes clean about what he's been a superhero, making amends for lying to his friends and family for so many years. But there's a bigger problem: Spider-Man is more famous, or rather infamous, than Peter Parker. Once he's unmasked, the average person on the street doesn't see him as Peter Parker, they see him as Spider-Man who has developed a pretty mixed reputation over the years, thanks to the likes of J. Jonah Jameson. Despite what Aunt May told him, people wouldn't see him as Peter Parker if he unmasked--they'd still see him as either a wall-crawling menace or the friendly-neighborhood Spider-Man. Either way, there is virtually no way that Peter Parker could lead any sort of a normal life ever again. That should've been evident in House of M where everybody knew Spider-Man was Peter Parker and was subjected to the same kind of media attention most celebrities or public figures get. True, that makes for an interesting story, for awhile anyway before somebody realizes "Wait a minute! I thought this guy was supposed to be an ordinary person with an ordinary life with ordinary problems behind the mask. Now he's just another superhero with superhero problems." You also mentioned that Spider-Man was about balancing Peter Parker and Spider-Man. Well, if Peter Parker has no life outside of Spider-Man, then what sort of balance is there?

Once again, I understand you're appoaching this from a fans point of view. But what about the character? Don't you think that after a little over a decade (in comic book time) of being Spider-Man that Peter might feel good about revealing it? About lifting all that weight and all that decieving off of his shoulders?

Sure, Peter would feel good getting it off his chest only to have it come back and bite him in the ass. Besides, he already came clean about his double life as Spider-Man before (and, as I pointed out in this post: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9120936&postcount=59 he's had his secret identity compromised a ridiculous number of times already). Only this time, he's apparently doing so on live TV watched by millions--kind of hard to make up some lame excuse to get out of that one. Point is, there's usually always someway for a writer on Spider-Man to come up with a way to restore Spidey's ID. However, the way this has been set-up, it looks like the only way this can be done is for a magical "memory wipe." And since this will get all the reaction shots from the supporting cast and villains this time around, there goes the suspence of Peter trying to keep his identity as Spider-Man secret for future stories because we'll all know how they'll react.

Maybe people should test themselves and see how long they can lead a double life without people suspecting something is wrong. And lying to loved ones, friends, and acquaintances because you have an undying fear of your enemies figuring out your secret.

Except the convention of comic book superheroes is that they have secret identities because, to borrow a concept from Batman Begins, more people respond to a symbol than to a mere human being.

Things have changed with the character since the beginning of the story. It's not the same Peter Parker we once read in Amazing Fantasy 15, he's grown up now. And as CaptainStacy pointed out earlier in the thread. Isn't what Peter is doing what is in his character to do? Taking responsibility? Making sure that he can step up and be the hero that he needs to be?

A character has to change and develop, sure. However, at what cost to the original concepts of the character that made him popular to begin with?

I understand that people are going to be upset. And it's pretty obvious in this thread and in the Spidey forums...but I think too many people are letting personal feelings on the character and the past storylines get in the way of what exactly is going on in the story.

I'm just more upset, or rather annoyed, over the idea that this either shows that A. Marvel doesn't understand the character, B. That it's an obvious stunt that's going to have to be undone in order for the character to survive, and C. That the characters, instead of acting in character, seemed forced to comply with the demands of the story rather than the other way around. Still, like everybody else, I'll be wondering how long it will be before Peter Parker gets his secret identity back.

I mean you're talking about a guy who's supporting cast was regular people. But things have seriously changed since then.

The key phrase being WAS. Now his comic book reads like another version of Marvel Team-Up

It basically sounds to me, and don't take it the wrong way, but you want Peter Parker/Spider-Man to live in circa 1970's for the rest of his comic book life. And that's not the case. Some people grow up and meet new and interesting people. And then some of us grow up and stay around the same old flock of people for the rest of our lives. Nothing is wrong with that, neither are wrong, but it's two different experiences.

None taken, although that's an interesting statement coming from the guy who doesn't like the Spider-marriage. Even so, you do have a point about me wanting Peter Parker/Spider-Man to stay true to his roots (not the 70s mind you, I think the more we distance ourselves from that decade the better) but I still like to see the character grow and develop but still remain true to what the character was originally intended as, to have some consistancy to what made him popular. Sure, the idea of the whole world knowing that Peter Parker is Spider-Man can be an interesting story, but it's not something that can last long term. Otherwise Spider-Man, as a character, eventually suffers. After all, that the same argument being made over his being married to Mary Jane, is it not?

But my personal feelings aside and with the Peter Parker character in mind. Don't you think it'd be the most liberating feeling to finally combine the life of Peter Parker and Spider-Man insteaed of hiding it from everybody? It feels good not to hide things from people anymore and I'm sure a lot of people can relate with that.

In real life, sure. However, Spider-Man is part of a genre that has secret identities because, as I said, symbols are greater than a mere human being. Also, Peter Parker's dual life isn't just merely because the genre demands it, it also reflects the struggle he has between maintaining a balance between living the normal, everyday life as Peter Parker and for making up his failure to act by being Spider-Man and the responsibilities that come with both. If he sways too far into one area, problems arise for him. Since everybody knows who he is now, that will definately happen, so eventually, the scales will have to tip back the other way. However, if it's stretched out for too long like the mystical spider-totem crap (5 years and counting) the character, and the comic itself, will suffer.

[Colossal Spoons]

^you and Dread are gonna be good friends :p

[SpideyInATree]

But like I said, Peter was the kind of person who wanted to lead as normal of a life as he could outside of being a superhero. And yes, he comes clean about what he's been a superhero, making amends for lying to his friends and family for so many years. But there's a bigger problem: Spider-Man is more famous, or rather infamous, than Peter Parker. Once he's unmasked, the average person on the street doesn't see him as Peter Parker, they see him as Spider-Man who has developed a pretty mixed reputation over the years, thanks to the likes of J. Jonah Jameson. Despite what Aunt May told him, people wouldn't see him as Peter Parker if he unmasked--they'd still see him as either a wall-crawling menace or the friendly-neighborhood Spider-Man. Either way, there is virtually no way that Peter Parker could lead any sort of a normal life ever again. That should've been evident in House of M where everybody knew Spider-Man was Peter Parker and was subjected to the same kind of media attention most celebrities or public figures get. True, that makes for an interesting story, for awhile anyway before somebody realizes "Wait a minute! I thought this guy was supposed to be an ordinary person with an ordinary life with ordinary problems behind the mask. Now he's just another superhero with superhero problems." You also mentioned that Spider-Man was about balancing Peter Parker and Spider-Man. Well, if Peter Parker has no life outside of Spider-Man, then what sort of balance is there?



Sure, Peter would feel good getting it off his chest only to have it come back and bite him in the ass. Besides, he already came clean about his double life as Spider-Man before (and, as I pointed out in this post: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9120936&postcount=59 he's had his secret identity compromised a ridiculous number of times already). Only this time, he's apparently doing so on live TV watched by millions--kind of hard to make up some lame excuse to get out of that one. Point is, there's usually always someway for a writer on Spider-Man to come up with a way to restore Spidey's ID. However, the way this has been set-up, it looks like the only way this can be done is for a magical "memory wipe." And since this will get all the reaction shots from the supporting cast and villains this time around, there goes the suspence of Peter trying to keep his identity as Spider-Man secret for future stories because we'll all know how they'll react.



Except the convention of comic book superheroes is that they have secret identities because, to borrow a concept from Batman Begins, more people respond to a symbol than to a mere human being.



A character has to change and develop, sure. However, at what cost to the original concepts of the character that made him popular to begin with?



I'm just more upset, or rather annoyed, over the idea that this either shows that A. Marvel doesn't understand the character, B. That it's an obvious stunt that's going to have to be undone in order for the character to survive, and C. That the characters, instead of acting in character, seemed forced to comply with the demands of the story rather than the other way around. Still, like everybody else, I'll be wondering how long it will be before Peter Parker gets his secret identity back.



The key phrase being WAS. Now his comic book reads like another version of Marvel Team-Up



None taken, although that's an interesting statement coming from the guy who doesn't like the Spider-marriage. Even so, you do have a point about me wanting Peter Parker/Spider-Man to stay true to his roots (not the 70s mind you, I think the more we distance ourselves from that decade the better) but I still like to see the character grow and develop but still remain true to what the character was originally intended as, to have some consistancy to what made him popular. Sure, the idea of the whole world knowing that Peter Parker is Spider-Man can be an interesting story, but it's not something that can last long term. Otherwise Spider-Man, as a character, eventually suffers. After all, that the same argument being made over his being married to Mary Jane, is it not?



In real life, sure. However, Spider-Man is part of a genre that has secret identities because, as I said, symbols are greater than a mere human being. Also, Peter Parker's dual life isn't just merely because the genre demands it, it also reflects the struggle he has between maintaining a balance between living the normal, everyday life as Peter Parker and for making up his failure to act by being Spider-Man and the responsibilities that come with both. If he sways too far into one area, problems arise for him. Since everybody knows who he is now, that will definately happen, so eventually, the scales will have to tip back the other way. However, if it's stretched out for too long like the mystical spider-totem crap (5 years and counting) the character, and the comic itself, will suffer.

You make good and fine points. But the concerns you bring up is what is going to make the story dynamic and exciting to the readers.

You're right. If it goes on too long it's eventually going to get stale, like anything would if it's drug on for too long. But do you really think that they are going to keep the mask off of him forever? Seriously? Especially after Spidey ends up turning on Stark, the guy who basically gave him the push to reveal his ID to the world?

Personally, I see a lot of things being dealt with because of the Civil War storyline. It's a perfect element to do this with Spider-Man as opposed to just having him decide to go public with his ID. You can deal with all the issues of the new suit and the new powers and Spidey's employment with Stark and being on the Avengers.

I see this as a nice story to have it sink in on Peter that lately he's been ridiculously way in over his head. And will soon come to realize that maybe things were better when he was doing the hero work on a solo basis. Not involving himself around all those heroes and trying to find a way to fit in with them.

As Mark Millar wrote in his Marvel Knights run...Spidey was a loner hero not because he necessarily "wanted" to be but mostly because he never really ever fit in with the rest of them. Just like before he was Spider-Man he never really fit in with the kids in school.

You want a back door? Plenty of them, in all honesty. Remember the favor that Loki still owes Spider-Man? How about Doctor Strange? I believe it was CaptStacy who had an excellent theory about Doctor Strange using a spell to make everyone forget but in order for the spell to work it would cause MJ and Aunt May to also forget that Peter is Spider-Man. This would also assist and go along the lines with what Quesada and JMS were saying in Wizard, that they're taking him back to the Lee/Ditko roots. Just a theory, and NOT EVEN MINE! :eek: :o

This is a chance to really have everything come to a head and give the writers a chance to set Spidey back up with something....normal.

Hey, like I said, I can understand and, in ways, relate with some of the animosity toward the revelation. Everybody has a different view of where they want Spidey to go. But I think people are just still fired up and too upset over some of the other recent events that have happened and letting that cloud them. I don't blame people for it but so far it hasn't shown any signs that it's going to be a horrible decision and not handled well.

So far between Amazing Spider-Man # 532 and Civil War Frontline # 1 Marvel is handling it like a champion so far, compared to the way they've handled OTHER things, heh.

But you make excellent points but all possibly dealt with in the near future.

[Spectre722]

i really think joey q and the rest of marvel are making this "who's side are u on?" a bigger question than it really is. if u polled like every comic reader on earth, i guarantee u a large majority would side with the anti-registration.

plus u just know that spiderman's gonna switch to anti-registration. and spidey is marvel's everyman. everybody likes spiderman. it's impossible not to like spiderman. therefore almost every fan will be anti-registration.

[Kotagg]

I actually don't like Spiderman.

[SpideyInATree]

I actually don't like Spiderman.

Why? Did he shoot web in your eye?

[Kotagg]

Nah, he's just boring.

Edit: I've never really honestly looked into it before, but after a little introspection I think it's because he's touted as the "everyman" because an average person identifies well with him. Unfortunately, he's not MY "everyman." I was raised in the hood, ran around with guns and acted like an all-around idiot trying to be a glorified "gang member."

For me, Luke Cage is the everyman. Or Gambit.

[SpideyInATree]

Nah, he's just boring.

Edit: I've never really honestly looked into it before, but after a little introspection I think it's because he's touted as the "everyman" because an average person identifies well with him. Unfortunately, he's not MY "everyman." I was raised in the hood, ran around with guns and acted like an all-around idiot trying to be a glorified "gang member."

For me, Luke Cage is the everyman. Or Gambit.

You make a good point. Spidey isn't an everyman to all...but when people say everyman they basically mean that Peter Parker balances everyday life like a normal everyday citizen and the problems people all face while being Spider-Man.

You just don't relate to it as much.

I grew up in the same environment but thanks to Spider-Man I never became a part of it. :)

[Kotagg]

True that. And by the way, that exact quote from Runaways *is* one of the coolest things I've ever seen in a comic, and Spiderman got some cool points with me with that one. ;)

[Vanguard07]

Man... i just thought of something.
I really, really, REALLY hope they show JJJ's reaction to Spidey unmasking.

[Darthphere]

Man... i just thought of something.
I really, really, REALLY hope they show JJJ's reaction to Spidey unmasking.


They'd be stupid not to. Probably be the only good thing to come out of this horrible, idiotic idea.

[stillanerd]

I'll try to keep my responses shorter this time SIAT, just to make Colossal Spoons happy.:p

You make good and fine points. But the concerns you bring up is what is going to make the story dynamic and exciting to the readers.

Maybe.

You're right. If it goes on too long it's eventually going to get stale, like anything would if it's drug on for too long. But do you really think that they are going to keep the mask off of him forever? Seriously? Especially after Spidey ends up turning on Stark, the guy who basically gave him the push to reveal his ID to the world?

Of course not. It's just annoying how we got to this point. Especially since one can feel that, with Spider-Man, Marvel seems to be once again seeing how far they can race to the edge of the cliff without falling over, kind of like what happened during the Clone Saga and THAT ended up being a nightmare to fix because they didn't have a back door.

Personally, I see a lot of things being dealt with because of the Civil War storyline. It's a perfect element to do this with Spider-Man as opposed to just having him decide to go public with his ID. You can deal with all the issues of the new suit and the new powers and Spidey's employment with Stark and being on the Avengers.

As well as with everybody elses secret identities probably.

I see this as a nice story to have it sink in on Peter that lately he's been ridiculously way in over his head. And will soon come to realize that maybe things were better when he was doing the hero work on a solo basis. Not involving himself around all those heroes and trying to find a way to fit in with them.

As Mark Millar wrote in his Marvel Knights run...Spidey was a loner hero not because he necessarily "wanted" to be but mostly because he never really ever fit in with the rest of them. Just like before he was Spider-Man he never really fit in with the kids in school.

I hope that's what's being aimed for. Then again, one of the selling points for New Avengers was that Spider-Man, along with Wolverine--two of Marvel's most popular characters--were members. There's always the possibility that Marvel won't have them still be members of an Avengers team when this is all over for the sake of maintaining that sales draw. Of course, I really hope they don't have Spider-Man stay on the Avengers after this is all over, and I don't see how he could.

You want a back door? Plenty of them, in all honesty. Remember the favor that Loki still owes Spider-Man? How about Doctor Strange? I believe it was CaptStacy who had an excellent theory about Doctor Strange using a spell to make everyone forget but in order for the spell to work it would cause MJ and Aunt May to also forget that Peter is Spider-Man. This would also assist and go along the lines with what Quesada and JMS were saying in Wizard, that they're taking him back to the Lee/Ditko roots. Just a theory, and NOT EVEN MINE! :eek: :o

Yes, I think that's the most logical solution (although a bit of a redux of what happened in Flash) although his idea of Loki getting involved, returning the favor to Spidey (with a price of course) could be possible if, at the end of Civil War, Spidey's ID still remains public. However, if one of the goals of Civil War is to reestablish secret identities, then Doc Strange is the likely catalyst and can weave up a magic spell to make a hero's secret identity secret again if he or she wants it to be. And using Captain Stacy's idea, I imagined this scenario, which you might've seen on the Spider-Man message boards:

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9122105&postcount=100

As a consequence of him unmasking, Mary Jane is severely injured when a long time foe seeks revenge on Spider-Man and she's caught in the crossfire. She's hospitalized and in a coma, and so of course Peter blames himself. It also puts him at odds with Aunt May because he feels that she was the one who convinced him to go through with unmasking and, if he hadn't done so, MJ would be okay. This, BTW, is what makes him eventually switch over to the anti-registration side. Of course, by doing this, any and all knowledge of him being Peter Parker has to be erased eventually, courtesy of Doctor Strange (who will do so for ALL the unregistered heroes). This results in all the S.H.E.I.L.D. files being wiped out, heroes no longer remembering each other's secret identities, loved ones not knowing, etc. For Spider-Man, it results in his Aunt May no longer knowing that her nephew is Spider-Man, and also knowledge and documentation of the marriage.

However, MJ wakes up from her coma and is the only person able to remember that Peter is Spider-Man and that she was his wife. When Peter and MJ get back together again (this most likely takes place in the JMS/Joe Q mini that supposed to "fix" Spider-Man BTW), they find out there is no record of their marriage ever existing. They figure, might as well get married again, only a church wedding this time. However, this is when Joe Q's scenario of "MJ being abducted before the wedding happens" scenario, where after Spidey defeats the kidnapper, he and MJ realize it's too dangerous for them to be together and, even though they still love each other, feel as though they must go their seperate ways.

This is a chance to really have everything come to a head and give the writers a chance to set Spidey back up with something....normal.

Hopefully.

Hey, like I said, I can understand and, in ways, relate with some of the animosity toward the revelation. Everybody has a different view of where they want Spidey to go. But I think people are just still fired up and too upset over some of the other recent events that have happened and letting that cloud them. I don't blame people for it but so far it hasn't shown any signs that it's going to be a horrible decision and not handled well.
Well with good reason, I think, primarily because the events that have been hyped up to the hilt have usually been below people's expections. "House of M" and "The Other:Evolve or Die" anyone? Not to mention "Sins Past."

So far between Amazing Spider-Man # 532 and Civil War Frontline # 1 Marvel is handling it like a champion so far, compared to the way they've handled OTHER things, heh.

So far.

But you make excellent points but all possibly dealt with in the near future.

Maybe. And thanks.

[Dread]

Just offering a minor "past history" note, but didn't Capt. America used to have a gang of allies called the "Hotline"? This would have been during the mire of the 90's where he wore his "dying of the SSS" lame armor. This included Jack Flag and Free Spirit, both of whom were "supersoldiers" in their own right. They seemed like the type who Cap could probably count on to stand at his back and maybe gather helpers for his anti-SHRA cause (maybe appealing to younger heroes, who are in the most jeopardy). Of course, Cap leading a "rebellion" could backfire for his P.R. I was just curious if anyone remembered them and thought they would make sense to return here. They've done almost nothing for nearly 10 years.

I'd say I doubt the CW editorial staff or Millar are interested in these barely known D-Listers...but then again, they remembered Coldheard, Cobalt Man and Speedfreak, all of whom are hardly above D-List (Coldheart hadn't been seen in about 10 years either), and are amping up Nitro in a major way (as well as giving the surviving NEW WARRIORS the best chance at relaunching in a competant way in years). You never know.

[3dman27]

Just offering a minor "past history" note, but didn't Capt. America used to have a gang of allies called the "Hotline"? This would have been during the mire of the 90's where he wore his "dying of the SSS" lame armor. This included Jack Flag and Free Spirit, both of whom were "supersoldiers" in their own right. They seemed like the type who Cap could probably count on to stand at his back and maybe gather helpers for his anti-SHRA cause (maybe appealing to younger heroes, who are in the most jeopardy). Of course, Cap leading a "rebellion" could backfire for his P.R. I was just curious if anyone remembered them and thought they would make sense to return here. They've done almost nothing for nearly 10 years.

I'd say I doubt the CW editorial staff or Millar are interested in these barely known D-Listers...but then again, they remembered Coldheard, Cobalt Man and Speedfreak, all of whom are hardly above D-List (Coldheart hadn't been seen in about 10 years either), and are amping up Nitro in a major way (as well as giving the surviving NEW WARRIORS the best chance at relaunching in a competant way in years). You never know.i think it was established thatcap's hotline was shut down by the feds after steve was stripped of his captain america commission while free spirit and jack flag probably retired

[Dread]

i think it was established thatcap's hotline was shut down by the feds after steve was stripped of his captain america commission while free spirit and jack flag probably retired
I see. I just thought it'd be interesting if the pair came back to support Cap in the anti-SHRA side. Or, conversely, maybe they chose to register and could be some of the few heroes who've been on that "side" (much like, say, Tigra, who last I heard was still a police officer) who could offer more perspective rather than the knee-jerk hostility of Agent Hill, or even the "blatent douchebag" tactics of Iron Man.

[Spectre722]

i wouldnt count on spider unmasking himself. it just seems like this would be such an unfixable move. i think when it comes down to it, when he has to publicly unmask he turns on iron man and he gets the **** out of dodge.

[CaptainStacy]

For me, Luke Cage is the everyman.

I grew up in a predominantly white, middle class neighborhood, and i can remember getting into arguements with other white kids on the playground over who would be Luke Cage when we all played "superheroes", so i dont think environment is always a factor.

Im not sure what attracted me to the character...that was a LONG time ago...maybe his "in your face" attitude. Keep in mind that this was a few years before anyone had ever even HEARD of Wolverine.

[Fading]

Personally I like the whole cap being torn thing, and will probably end with some partial redifining of his character in a good way. Not that his core will change, just it'll re-show his colors better than ever, probably with him turning on a long time friend in Iron Man to help the other side.

Hopefully they'll do it right, personally I'm on the side against the registration act (spidey/wolvie). If they register heroes, mutants, and others with powers that could lead to much more control in the marvel universe of their respective government. Personally I like these 'period' type pieces that speak to a certain generation, and I think this will (if done right) speak to how ppl feel the government oversteps it's bounds now (spiderman/wolverine side), or how they feel they can relinquish rights if its for the greater good and protects us better in the long run (Iron Man).

Whats the saying again, "The first generation that doesn't fight for their rights will lose them", I believe that's it, kinda fitting for this fight IMO. Plus this could set up some good fights if nothing else :).

[stormcloud03]

I am with the cap!
And I hope spidey snaps out of it

[samurai black]

Plus this could set up some good fights if nothing else :).

The only fights i'm looking forward to are Cap vs. Tony and Tony vs. Pete. Other than that i think it's alittle lop-sided in terms of power and experience. I mean it's people like colossus, wonderman, ms.marvel, and the sentry hunting down the young avengers and the runaways. And it looks like wolverine will be anti, but won't be messed with (for obvious reasons).Plus with the U.S. Goverment on their side and Stark's resources, i don't see them putting up much of a fight. But this underdog factor actually works well and gives us a reason to root for the anti-registration heroes

[Vanguard07]

So far Cap's side doesnt look like it's got much chance.
And Iron Man vs Cap is a stupid fight. Why not say you want to see Cap get hit by a train? it'll have the same result.

[GNR]

As long as Cap and Cage are on the same side,it's cool.

[deemar325]

i wouldnt count on spider unmasking himself. it just seems like this would be such an unfixable move. i think when it comes down to it, when he has to publicly unmask he turns on iron man and he gets the **** out of dodge.

I hope that's how it pans out.

[samurai black]

So far Cap's side doesnt look like it's got much chance.
And Iron Man vs Cap is a stupid fight. Why not say you want to see Cap get hit by a train? it'll have the same result.

it's not bc they match up well, but bc it's true to the civil war mythos. brother against brother.

[TheCorpulent1]

I hope Cap fights Iron Man in the second issue and gets his ass kicked, then Thor shows up in the third issue and tears Iron Man apart. :)

Anyway, it's far from the first time Cap and Iron Man have fought. They'll be back to normal within a couple of years.

[Franklin Richards]

Sue vs. Iron Man might be interesting.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Vanguard07]

Yeah. Normally i'd say sue could take him.
With Extremis though? I'm not entirely sure anymore.

[TheCorpulent1]

I still say Sue could take him.

[Vanguard07]

Probably... but seriously who does Cap have on his side so far? cause I've been wracking my brain for a while now trying to figure out who their big guns are.

[Franklin Richards]

It's been suggested that there will be a split in the FF. So more than likely Sue will be on Cap's side. Maybe Ben or Johnny. We'll find out tomorrow I think.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[TheCorpulent1]

So that puts Reed on Iron Man's side? What is he, retarded? :o
Probably... but seriously who does Cap have on his side so far? cause I've been wracking my brain for a while now trying to figure out who their big guns are.
I don't know, I haven't been reading the Civil War stuff except for Frontline and a few comics I was already reading.

[Franklin Richards]

So that puts Reed on Iron Man's side? What is he, retarded? :o

I don't know, I haven't been reading the Civil War stuff except for Frontline and a few comics I was already reading.


He did the math and decided that the Registration Act was inevitable. He's trying to do damage control by embracing the Act. Plus the FF have always been public.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[TheCorpulent1]

Apparently you have to be dumb to believe in civil rights, I guess. All the smart people are voting for the unnecessarily extreme legislation.

[Franklin Richards]

Apparently you have to be dumb to believe in civil rights, I guess. All the smart people are voting for the unnecessarily extreme legislation.


I think Sue is gonna agree with you. :D


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, at least Cap's side gets the most powerful member of the FF and, eventually, Spider-Man when he stops taking orders from Tony.

[Vanguard07]

yeah but Spidey wont be much good against the Sentry or the like.

[TheCorpulent1]

My money's on Thor siding with Cap when he comes back, so it'll all even out. ;)

[thor87]

the question comes down to those who believe in the rights of a few over the so-called well being of the many. now im just being the devils advocate we live in a democracy and the majority of people want the superheros registered, as they say majority rules. The problem that caps side is gonna have is that they dont have that many people on their side, they dont have the people, they dont have the government, they dont even have all the superheroes, and the mutants who would have definitely sided with cap are mostly gone. Cap has very few heavy hitters, and even if thor does come back he is no match for sentry unless he comes back with the odinpower. Long and the short of it is I dont think cap and his merry band will last very long against the smartest people in the mu ie Tony, Reed, Pym, and the strongest Sentry.

[TheCorpulent1]

The Sentry couldn't even handle the ****ed up, lame version of Genis in Thunderbolts recently. I think Thor'll be ok.

[stillanerd]

Here's a question: How in the world would could you enforce the registration act on these guys?:

Hercules?--if he registered as himself, who would believe he was actually the real Hercules?

Thor?--He IS the Norse God of Thunder, after all.

Silver Surfer?--Let's see, former Herald of Galactus versus S.H.I.E.L.D. Guess we know who the winner of THAT would be. What's more, he's not a US citizen, let alone from planet Earth.

The Hulk?--Maybe it was a good thing the Illuminati send him out into space, there would be NO WAY anybody could even get him to register, let alone enforce it.

[Franklin Richards]

Reed defeated Galactus. I'm sure he can come up with a solution for any of those people.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Vanguard07]

Dude you picked four really bad examples. Those are mostly people that they wouldnt bother trying to register.
A better example would be Dr Strange. What are they gonna do about THAT good doctor?

[Artistsean]

(possible spoilers about DC's New Fronteir by Darwyn Cooke)

Ever read DC's the New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke? Like in that comic when heroes were forced to reveale their true identity,

some will retire, some will register thinking they can still do good, some will register not really thinking about it, some will become vigilantees, and some will be out of the reach of the government.

[stillanerd]

Dude you picked four really bad examples. Those are mostly people that they wouldnt bother trying to register.
A better example would be Dr Strange. What are they gonna do about THAT good doctor?

So are you saying there's exceptions to the rules? :) Anyway, my point with regards to Herc, let's say he goes to register and puts down his "True Name" as "Hercules." What then? Does that mean a society who no longer believes in polythesim say that this is the real Hercules? Okay, I'm just being silly, but still. Dr. Strange, BTW, is a good example. Astral projection, inter-dimensional travel, hypnotism, magic spells that can subdue virtually anything supernatural, plus he's immortal--heck, I'll bet he'll be the guy that restores most people's secret identities after this is all over. Bet his whole reaction is "Let them TRY to arrest me."

Reed defeated Galactus. I'm sure he can come up with a solution for any of those people.

Actually, you could be right about that. There was one website, I forgot which, that had an advance review where it talked about Iron Man asking Reed to build some kind of device

[Tropico]

So are you saying there's exceptions to the rules? :) Anyway, my point with regards to Herc, let's say he goes to register and puts down his "True Name" as "Hercules." What then? Does that mean a society who no longer believes in polythesim say that this is the real Hercules? Okay, I'm just being silly, but still. Dr. Strange, BTW, is a good example. Astral projection, inter-dimensional travel, hypnotism, magic spells that can subdue virtually anything supernatural, plus he's immortal--heck, I'll bet he'll be the guy that restores most people's secret identities after this is all over. Bet his whole reaction is "Let them TRY to arrest me."

Reed told Strange that he was one of the people the govt. wanted to reach an agreement with in the Civil War comic. I wonder why?:rolleyes:

As for the other examples you gave, I think that the govt (through SHIELD) would have to accept that there are other dimensional creatures that are considered gods. If there are other consequences besides compulsory registration like immigration, naturalization, threats of deportation or stuff like that...it'd be interesting to see what they would come up with. The same pretty much goes for Silver Surfer or any other alien currently living in the US. With the Hulk...well, there's no real need to register the Hulk since they already know who the Hulk is. The thing is what other measures would they take to try and contain him if/when he returns to Earth.

[Darthphere]

Well it looks like our worst fears came true.

[TheCorpulent1]

Seriously, Doc Strange ought to just get the Defenders together. They'd nip this registration nonsense in the bud, drop the opposition with ease, and probably establish dominion over the whole world, just for kicks.

[Darthphere]

Seriously, Doc Strange ought to just get the Defenders together. They'd nip this registration nonsense in the bud, drop the opposition with ease, and probably establish dominion over the whole world, just for kicks.


Sounds like a plan.

[TheCorpulent1]

It'd be hilarious if Dr. Strange's astral form appeared right in the middle of the Silver Surfer's fight against the Annihilation Wave and basically dragged him back to Earth by his nonexistent silver ear. :D

[GNR]

Just read #2.

Even though the ending was hinted at for a while,I still found myself saying holy ****e when I turned the page.

Sue is definitely going to turn somewhere down the line.

I'm really liking the looks of both squads at this point.

Iron Man,Ms Marvel,Mr.Fantastic,She-Hulk,Yellowjacket,and Doc Sampson.

Cap,Young Avengers,Hercules,Cloak,Cage,Cable,Daredevil,Falco n.

This is BIG stuff.The whole reveal at the end will definitely split fans.Alot of people on here look to be really upset.As long as Marvel sticks with the consequences and reprecussions of the past 2 issues,all should be good.

Great issue by the way.

[Marcdachamp]

Holy. ****ing. ****. Time will tell if this is a wise decision, but if the rest of Civil War is anywhere near this good, then this will be the greatest Marvel event ever.

Wow.

[DBM]

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CivilWar2_End_leader.html

[roach]

Holy. ****ing. ****. Time will tell if this is a wise decision, but if the rest of Civil War is anywhere near this good, then this will be the greatest Marvel event ever.

Wow.

I seem to recall people saying the same thing about House of M

[Trask]

Ok Just read CW 2 and I have only one problem with it.

How the hell did Wiccan teleport the transporter to the resistance's base when he does not even know its location?

Besides that it was a good read. It was fun to see JJJ faint when Peter reveals his ID, and I cant wait to see his reaction to it. I thought the reveal would have happened at the start and we would get to see some more reactions but I guess it is fine.

[Darthphere]

I havent gotten the issue yet, but I really hope that this horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, decision by Joey Q(Millar seemed to have disliked the idea) somehow turns out good.

[Doc Destruction]

Holy. ****ing. ****. Time will tell if this is a wise decision, but if the rest of Civil War is anywhere near this good, then this will be the greatest Marvel event ever.

Wow.

I guess I really must have "graduated" to DC. Why ANYONE would think that this pond scum is good is so beyond me. :(

[roach]

I guess I really must have "graduated" to DC. Why ANYONE would think that this pond scum is good is so beyond me. :(
c'mon it's Marcdachamp...if he didnt like it I'd worry

[Darthphere]

Well you know, I hate it already but im curious to find out what exactly they go with this. You know since theyve opened up SO many new story opportunites. Insert rolleyes smiley.

[GNR]

I guess I really must have "graduated" to DC. Why ANYONE would think that this pond scum is good is so beyond me. :(

Honestly dude,you're pro-DC beetching is getting really annoying.Yes,we know you hate Marvel and JQ.Yes,we know you've dropped every single Marvel book.Yes,we know you're not reading Marvel and have no plans to in the near future.WE KNOW.

You're like a god-damn broken record honestly.

[Spectre722]

that last shocker was a bold move and i applaud millar for taking it. but i'm wondering when all this is over...how can you possibly fix that?

otherwise i really liked this issue as much as the last one. we get to see some more of who's on what side...Doc Sampson on the pro-side, black goliath, hercules, cloak/dagger, and cable on the resistance. and i knew the YA would get out. cant wait to see how this leads into their crossover with the runaways.

[Colossal Spoons]

Ok Just read CW 2 and I have only one problem with it.

How the hell did Wiccan teleport the transporter to the resistance's base when he does not even know its location?



Yeah, I thought the same thing. Also, Vision got taken captive in the last issue of NA, how is was he apprehended with the rest of the Young Avengers? And Cable, I wouldn't think Cable would have an opinion about the SHRA at all.

that last shocker was a bold move and i applaud millar for taking it. but i'm wondering when all this is over...how can you possibly fix that?


I know it hasn't happened in a while, but time-travel is still an easy cop out fix. Also tampering with everybody's minds on a worldwide scale by some telepath.

[GNR]

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Also, Vision got taken captive in the last issue of NA, how is was he apprehended with the rest of the Young Avengers? And Cable, I wouldn't think Cable would have an opinion about the SHRA at all.



I know it hasn't happened in a while, but time-travel is still an easy cop out fix. Also tampering with everybody's minds on a worldwide scale by some

The Collective takes place before CW begins.

Cable is probably doing it for Cap out of respect.see Cable/Deadpool #25.:up:

[Kotagg]

I guess I really must have "graduated" to DC.

I'd say "relapsing" or "degenerating" is more applicable, but to each his own.

[Colossal Spoons]

Ah ha, good old time lapses in comics, thanks though :up: Yeah, I rememeber that issue, didn't think Cable and Cap were THAT good of friends for Cable to make himself a criminal out of respect to Cap.

[deemar325]

Steven Ditko comes out of hiding and beats up a biker steals his clothes,shades,shotgun and motorcycle, speeds to Marvel's Manhattan headquarters goes to the reception desk and asks for Joey Q. The receptionist states Mr.Quesada isn't taking any meetings today, Ditko say's "I'll be back." then leaves, 5 minutes later a puke yellow 71' buick LaBaron(He borrowed it from some Raimi guy.) crashes through the office building killing the receptionist. Ditko steps out with a Vulcan rapid mini-machinegun and starts murderizing everyone in sight! making his way up to the office of one Joseph Quesada, Ditko incounters a cowaring Bendis, he is mumbling something, " Um...yeah uh..hi heh *sweating* I'm uh..sorry um..Oiy V...." *Loud Bang! Spray of pulpy red and gray matter splatters against a desk full of un-used Frank Miller Daredevil scripts from 1989.*

Ditko: "Now that's Pulp Fiction."

Ditko steps closer to Mr.Quesada's office, "Are you Sarah Connor?" Joey Q is midway through finishing off a bacon,doughnut,lard and chili sandwich and to his suprise! Ditko is standing there like a dark spector of vengeance and dread! not unlike a octitarian Punisher with a Swartznegger fetish. Joey only utters one sentence, "I should've kept Geoff Johns and dumped Bendiiii........" *A hot flash of lead puckers his obese elephant-like flesh, each hot molten slug eviscerates his gluttonous fat like bacon on a frying pan, his face warps in agony as a slug shatters his jaw! making him look not unlike Jeff Goldblum at the end of the movie 'the Fly' or Kanye west, vicera and bile explodes from his rectum and splats the floor and walls. He thinks of Kevin Smith and how that f-cker never finished 'DD/Bullseye:the Target' then Joey accepts his fate and his eyes roll in the back of his fat melon of a head and he dies.*

Ditko stares out into the void, knowing his job is done. He slowly casually walks down to the streets of Manhattan, he smiles up to the heavens and it was good. He has returned the honor of Spider-man and all is well.


Epilouge:

January 1, 2007 Marvel announces Rob Liefeld as the new EIC of Marvel Comics.........

January 2, 2007 A crow lands on the gravestone of Jack Kirby..........

........a hands juts its way through the soil clenching a #2 pencil and James O'Barr laughs gleafully somewhere in Detriot.

The End.

[samurai black]

Just read issue 2 and i must say...........IT WAS A GOOD BOOK!!! i thought for sure that the big reveal would mess up my feelings about this story, but marvel keeps my interest and $ for another week. Although i do feel cheated we only got to see JJJ's initial reaction and we know all those heroes saw it, but damn we have to wait another month to hear what they're going to say. It was good to see how the teams have been divided, still cap's squad is waaaaay underpowered (i mean, i thought the YAs could take some sheild agents) good build up between sue and reed but why would reed keep secrets from his own wife? that doesn't seem right. Well we know that next issue there's going to be some fightin' and i for one can't wait. Good job Marvel, just hope you know you're going with this one.

[Colossal Spoons]

As for Reed keeping things from Sue, even I don't get the story he fed her about "#42". We find out it's a containment facility, but is that it?

[gliderpilotgirl]

Yes..I agree Issue 2 was very good..my jaw hit the floor at the revelation at the end, but Cap was awesome, rescuing the YA's. Definately got to say I like the anti-registration side better..especially with this new high tech prison being built..you can clearly see the split in the FF coming, I'd be willing to bet Sue and Johnny will go anti ( but this is from a non FF reading fan ) Am still in shock about Spidey..

[Dread]

What I posted in the BOUGHT/THOUGHT, only with spoiler tags

CIVIL WAR #2: The last issue of "a Marvel Comics Event in 7 parts" was a good issue by Millar, helped to no end by the fact that the issue's major spoiler, which was the Stamford Incident, was not a surprise and had been well known for months. The major spoiler of this issue wasn't quite as well-known but was fairly obvious by how the winds were shifting after the last issue of ASM a few weeks ago, and many of us, myself included, felt that this act was inevitable; Spider-Man revealing his identity to the media (shortly after his ally and "master", Iron Man, did so). To be fair to IM supporters, Peter was all but willing to go underground and was very conflicted about what was being asked of him until Aunt May and MJ sort of encouraged him to go public, even though the SHRA doesn't require superheroes to PUBLICALLY reveal their ID's; simply ID themselves to the government, like agents do. However, it appears that in CW's storyline, neither the Marvel public nor the writers can see the difference; heroes who obey the SHRA but don't unmask to the public are apparently "hypocrites", as FRONTLINE #1 put it. That, frankly, is mind-bogglingly naive. That would make any undercover cop or government intelligence agent, or in the UK, a Secret Service agent, a "hypocrite". In the real world, leaking an agent's identity turned into a massive scandal for "Scooter" Libby and other Bush Administration folks; in the MU, superhero agents are apparently EXPECTED to out themselves. Still, to be fair, I'd rather CW bungle some, but not all of their ideas, vs. Bendis' HOM, which just had HEAPLOADS of wasted potential. Plus, its nice to see a Marvel event that's not exclusively an X-event for a change. That's been rare in the past decade (ONSLAUGHT, for instance, began and ended with the X-books and mostly dealt with stuff from them). Still, at this point DC seems to be better at keeping their intimate details of their main "event" book a better kept secret; could people "forsee" things in an average issue of IC coming as easily as they can for CW so far? I'd say no.

Thankfully, Mark Millar is not in the same pit as Bendis or Brubaker (circa DEADLY GENESIS) were at the fact that most of his major reveals are not big secrets by the time the issue hits the stands. CW #2 offers more, and stuff I found mightily entertaining. It had Reed and Sue a bit divided over the SHRA as Reed is in full "narc" mode alongside "Wife-Beater" Pym and Iron Man, anticipating a full superhero crisis if the SHRA doesn't become law and seeing only half-interested in Johnny Storm's injuries. Even though Reed's been a narc before, I sort of found his almost complete seperation from his family a bit disturbing. One would think he'd be more concerned about what happened to Johnny, or how Sue and his "good friend" Ben feel. Aren't the Fantastic Four "Marvel's first family"? They don't seem like much of one here. But the other big bit about the issue is Captain America's "resistance" movement, which is going around and beating down rogue supervillians (Vulture & Grim Reaper for instance), perhaps explaining why they've all but been ignoring this MAJOR oppurtunity to beat their foes, exploit the gov't or commit crimes. DC villians in contrast seemed much more organized in IC, but that is because DC isn't afraid of admitting that things like "good" and "evil" actually exist; Marvel, in a typically stereotypical Liberal mindset, excuse "evil" by pretending it doesn't exist, and the whole world is "gray". Yeah, I'll bet Hitler really loved his dog, and Osama Bin Ladin is good to his mommy somewhere. Yes, most of the world has some gray, but using that as an excuse to blur the line between heroes and villians is a dangerous message. But I got sidetracked. After stomping some villian-butt, Cap's crew stages a daring rescue when the Young Avengers are hunted down and arrested by SHIELD agents after foiling a mugging. Naturally, as YA is hideously late (like EVERY comic, every one, ever written by a TV/movie writer), CW takes place after it, when Patriot has survived his Kree blast and somehow regained his "bulletproof" supersoldier powers (the main theories are: Blood-Transfusion, Sentry-Healing, or Wiccan Healing). Very noticeable is that speedster Thomas was nowhere to be found; does this mean he quits the team after being shoehorned into the last few issues? Cap's covert "resistance" force includes Falcon (his longtime partner), Luke Cage, Cloak & Dagger, Hercules, Cable, and I belive Bill Foster (a guy on the panel looked like him). In other CW tie-ins, the New Warriors (or at least Rage and Justice) are on Cap's side, as is Wolverine (but he is busy hunting down Nitro, a task too "unimportent" for the almighty SHIELD or Iron Man). And presumably Nick Fury, who is still underground circa SECRET WAR (despite continuity errors published to the contrary, which were retroactively blamed on "LMD's", much as Xena in THE SIMPSONS blamed episode errors on "magicians" once). As well as Daredevil, or "new DD who is possibly Hawkeye, although Swordsman turned out not to be Hawkeye over in T-Bolts". It was good seeing Cap going undercover and willing to rescue the YA, despite the fact that he's disapproved of them being heroes before. Of course, one could say that going "underground" could threaten Cap's legitmacy as he really has no option to thwarting SHRA unless he "convinces" the government to reconsider it, which would amount to "vigilantes" threatening the gov't. On the other hand, the anti-SHRA arguement is easily the Liberal agruement, and Marvel's never made a secret about their Left bias (nor do most other comics, including DC). Disagreeing with your country in the name of morals is the new black, and the best way for Cap to prove he loves America is by turning against it when he feels the country is headed in the wrong direction; he's done it twice before, both during administrations that, by sheer coincidence, were not Democrats (namely Reagan, that evil warlord). So just because I'm not claiming that all of this isn't out of character doesn't mean I don't see the writing on the wall.

The big dilemma of the story is this: If SHRA remains indefinately, it would mean the end of the Marvel Superhero genre as we know it, as all heroes would either be super-agents like SHIELD in costumes, living in hi-tech training facilities, or hunted anti-heroes like Punisher, with nothing in-between. The fact that superheroes are not all government agents is one of the key details to what makes the superhero genre work, and one doubts Marvel would be suicidal enough to not realize that. On the other hand, barring some major event, if a "group of vigilantes" are able to bully or threaten the government into reconsidering, one could claim it not as "realistic", as because the anti-SHRA can't brake the 4th wall and go, "we can't register because the medium demands otherwise", so all they are left with is "tradition". Of course, they could make the case about how historically corrupt the MU's gov't often is (turning against heroes for minor reasons while always willing to "pardon" or deputize whatever supervillian feels like towing the line, albeit temporarialy), or how easy it would be for supervillians to discover their identities and loved ones if they are all government employees through bribes, leaks, or hacking. But so far they haven't. And it is because of this dilemma that I wonder if Marvel actually has an "end" to this event, or is just using this to bridge the gap to ANOTHER event, much like HOM was little more than a primer for DECIMATION. If so, that's very lame, and a major cop-out. I simply fear Marvel writing themselves into a corner with CW, despite how "hot" it is.

Ah, yes, and Spider-Man revealing his identity. I already stated that requiring heroes who fully obey the SHRA and reveal their ID's to the government to also do it publically (and make their enemies' jobs a million times easier) is unfair and very naive. And it also takes Spider-Man outside of his realm of existance and into something that feels, well, generic. Not only is he living in an ivory tower in the sky, with nanobot armor, the right-hand of a psuedo politician-armored hero and member of his planet's premire superhero team, but now he is also an instant celebrity. He's basically Booster Gold with a family now. Or perhaps The Flash, back when his own ID was public. The problem, of course, is that those things weren't what made Spider-Man popular in the first place. What made him popular was his ability to mingle a soap opera lifestyle that was relatable to most readers while also mixing in a lot of superhero drama. Poor Peter would struggle to pay the bills, live an honest life and take care of May, but would have to miss his hot date with MJ because Shocker was robbing the mint again. Everyone knows what its like to have a day turn against you, and that's what Spider-Man had. Joe Q blames the loss of this on the simple act of "marrying a supermodel", but that was really nothing that couldn't have worked; in fact, it worked well since the 80's to the point where the cartoons and movies since couldn't have FUNCTIONED without MJ being key to Spidey's world. Using the Flash as an example, outing his ID proved to be a shocking plot development and one that "opened new doors for stories"...for about 1-2 years. Then it was obvious that DC regretted the decision, and so they did some major "cosmic baloney" to undo it and erase that knowledge from the minds of the general public (which wasn't a picnic for Wally either). The same will happen to Spider-Man. We'll have the "usual gang of people who support everything" in and outside Marvel talking about what a great chance this is for Peter to grow, and for some interesting plot developments to occur because of it, and they'd be right; assuming the Spider-writers use it efficiently (which, after THE OTHER, is debatable). But after 1-2 years, especially when SPIDER-MAN 3 is hitting theatres and Spidey's still a secret identity hero and adheres to most of his "formula", Marvel will backpeddle, and need an "out". Some say Loki, others say Dr. Strange, but it all amounts to "cosmic baloney" that makes you go, "What was the point? Couldn't Marvel's editorial staff forsee the effects of their own medium, or are they so eager to make bucks that they string us along anyway?" The reveal wasn't even a huge shocker, as I stated, the last ASM issue made it all but inevitable. Its simply a shame that I've not read Spider-books on a regular basis for years because they kept bungling him in the name to "reinvent" him or "change" something, and that process continues, into the point where Spider-Man is now all but generic. Incidentally, Peter now claims he started his career at 15, even though past sources and comics clearly stated him as being 16. The point? In Marvel time, "10 years" have passed since 1961 and now, which means that if Peter started at 16, he's now 26, maybe almost 27 -- gasp, "pushing" 30! Whereas if he was 15, he is now 25, which is apparently "safer".

Hence is the problem with "events" in the comic medium. American comics remain loyal to a "neverending story", and that means that you can't stretch a property too far from what made it work in the first place, or it becomes unrecognizable. But "events" only work if they mean permanent change, and Marvel's shown that anything from the past, present, or future can be undone at a whim with a "retcon" if it means getting another book in the Top 10. Rely on it too much and you get apathy.

Still, I liked CW #2, because despite it all, Millar gives the story enough punch that it entertains despite itself. And McNiven's art is fine as usual. Marvel may write itself into a loopy corner, but at least they'll succeed in the short term; that beats HOM, which failed in the long-term AND the short-term. I just wish Marvel would sometimes quit being afraid of "straightfoward superheroism" and quit relying on knee-jerk criticism to Conservative administrations to give their stories "political edge". And I wish they'd learn from mistakes, both their's and DC's, better than they usually do. Admittedly, J.J.'s initial reaction is priceless. But is one great but passing moment or two worth rewriting Spidey's entire purpose?

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

How many issues is this supossoed to go?

[Dread]

How many issues is this supossoed to go?
The core CIVIL WAR mini is 7 issues. If you include the other tie-ins, it clocks at a whopping 70 issues.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

WHat issue are they on now?

[Dread]

WHat issue are they on now?
CIVIL WAR is on #2 and most of the tie-in issues are in their 1st-2nd issue of the tie-in.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Thank you

[AnimeJune]

CIVIL WAR is on #2 and most of the tie-in issues are in their 1st-2nd issue of the tie-in.Huh. It's an interesting story, though, I must say. All those idiots saying "They've destroyed Spider-Man!" need to take a chill pill.

[Image]

I got the second issue today and I liked it. I don't think Spidey was ruined, but would rather he not did what he did, but it was cool and I think nothing was ruined. Fantastic Four will seem to be at odds I think in the future of the series. I want to read more!

[Spectre722]

i dont think theyve destroyed spiderman but theyve dug themselves into a deep hole. im hoping they have a plan to make this work and didn't just jump into it blindly.

[supermarvelman]

was that Mimic in the last page of Thunderbolts this week?

[GNR]

Huh. It's an interesting story, though, I must say. All those idiots saying "They've destroyed Spider-Man!" need to take a chill pill.

I hear ya buddy.

There's no arguing with them,all they'll do is fire off with their regular cynical comments about how DC rules,how they've dropped all their Marvel books and how JQ is a tool.

[Fading]

I forget who said it but I whole heartedly agree with someone else saying "what's wrong with change?".

Fact is most comic characters become stagnent, their core fans may always want a character to stay as is, but change is essential to character development. Before hand Spidey's biggest worry was villains finding out his identity, and it's happened. Sure Spidey coulda went until he died with no one finding out, but this extends the threat to him beyond the costume and brings a heck of a lot of new variables.

When Wolverine lost his adamantium some fans acted like it was the end of the comic book buisness. Then some of us absolutely enjoyed the change, Wolvie's life took an even further turn for the worse, created more drama setting up better stories. I think the same will happen here, Spidey's storyline potential has opened up far more.

It may be out of character, but this could be a good change if done right. Think of the first time Shocker shows up at Parker's house, or while MJ's serving up dinner Rhino busts through the wall. We'll finally see an impromt fight where spidey doesn't get the drop. He'll be taken by surprise in street clothes and not have to fake weakness to not tip off his secret.

My personal -guess- is because spidey came out first something will happen to him before the end of this event. A villain will harm/kill someone close to him giving him a reason to fight against it.

[Spectre722]

Steve McNiven's cover to Civil War 5

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CIVWAR005_cov_100.jpg

He looks to be in some deep ****! Glad to see that Iron Spidey costume worked out so well Tony!

[iceberg325]

Steve McNiven's cover to Civil War 5

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CIVWAR005_cov_100.jpg

He looks to be in some deep ****! Glad to see that Iron Spidey costume worked out so well Tony!

LoL Thats too funny lol. Venom looks crazy lol.

[Darthphere]

I hear ya buddy.

There's no arguing with them,all they'll do is fire off with their regular cynical comments about how DC rules,how they've dropped all their Marvel books and how JQ is a tool.


But its all true.:confused:

[Tropico]

Steve McNiven's cover to Civil War 5

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CIVWAR005_cov_100.jpg

He looks to be in some deep ****! Glad to see that Iron Spidey costume worked out so well Tony!

Did Quesada pencil the cover or do the layout? Peter's face reminds me A LOT of Quesada's style.

[gildea]

the biggest problem I have with spidey unmasking is whatever they do to get the secret identity back could be really cheesy.

[Darthphere]

the biggest problem I have with spidey unmasking is whatever they do to get the secret identity back could be really cheesy.


On top of that, whats the point if youre just going to retcon it anyway.

[roach]

On top of that, whats the point if youre just going to retcon it anyway.

I dont understand why Marvel continues to do stuff that has to be retconned away.

[Darthphere]

I dont understand why Marvel continues to do stuff that has to be retconned away.


I dont know if it has to, but they eventually will Wally West this away.

[roach]

I dont know if it has to, but they eventually will Wally West this away.

or just pull a Magneto
Spidey:"It wasnt me"
JJJ:"But I saw you unmask"
Spidey:"Nope wasnt me."
JJJ:"but..."
Spidey:"It was an imposter"
JJJ:"Huh?"

[Darthphere]

or just pull a Magneto
Spidey:"It wasnt me"
JJJ:"But I saw you unmask"
Spidey:"Nope wasnt me."
JJJ:"but..."
Spidey:"It was an imposter"
JJJ:"Huh?"


Or the famous, Spider-Man made me do it or he was going to kill me stuff.

[Colossal Spoons]

This who ordeal makes me feel so bad for Spidey. I hope somebody else goes through 1/2 the crap they're putting him through. And not just the usual "bad luck bunch" like Daredevil or Cyclops. Somebody new, innocent, and unexpected.

[Spectre722]

This who ordeal makes me feel so bad for Spidey. I hope somebody else goes through 1/2 the crap they're putting him through. And not just the usual "bad luck bunch" like Daredevil or Cyclops. Somebody new, innocent, and unexpected.

i think that somebody is speedball

[Franklin Richards]

Don't worry. They will soon be ****ing with the very core of the FF's theme.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Artistsean]

Why would anyone belive him saying he is Spider-Man? Did he show his powers right before taking off his mask or show his powers with the mask off?

[jaydawg]

That cover is a beauty. GG, Venom and Bullseye? I pray that cover isnt misleading.

[taskmaster]

That cover is awesome, glad to see they'll be doing some more with supervillians later in the series.

[torkibe]

Why would anyone belive him saying he is Spider-Man? Did he show his powers right before taking off his mask or show his powers with the mask off?

Well, in the first pic he appears in, he's "dropping in" from somewhere above, with his web...

[hippie_hunter]

I hear ya buddy.

There's no arguing with them,all they'll do is fire off with their regular cynical comments about how DC rules,how they've dropped all their Marvel books and how JQ is a tool.

1. DC does rule

2. Quesada is a tool

3. people dropping all of their Marvel books is a bit overreacting.

[Spider-Man™]

Steve McNiven's cover to Civil War 5

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CIVWAR005_cov_100.jpg

He looks to be in some deep ****! Glad to see that Iron Spidey costume worked out so well Tony!

That looks awesome!! :spidey: :up:

[Spider-Man™]

Well, in the first pic he appears in, he's "dropping in" from somewhere above, with his web...

......:(

[BrianWilly]

Is anyone seeing a bit of a similarity between Reed's "42" project and the Gulag from Kingdom Come?

[roach]

Is anyone seeing a bit of a similarity between Reed's "42" project and the Gulag from Kingdom Come?

I mentioned this before and people laughed at me....this story has a lot of similarities to Kingdom Come

[Spider-Man™]

^ I didn't laugh, i think you're right.

[kiuju2k]

JJJ's response was the only reason i even read the book.

[Dread]

Is anyone seeing a bit of a similarity between Reed's "42" project and the Gulag from Kingdom Come?
I thought that, too. But of course, after KINGDOM COME, any "metahuman detention facility" is going to be compared with the Gulag.

Especially since we know something has to go horribly wrong.

Am I the only person disturbed that Reed is all but gleefull about planning how to possibly imprison scores of fellow heroes alongside Hank "Beating My Wife Is The Only Plot-Point The Casual Fan Recalls" Pym? Talk about being a narc.

Millar mentioned in WIZARD that "the supervillian response will be covered in #5", and it looks like he meant what he said. At least Millar usually delivers on action, which is what an "event" needs. Much like the end of IC, the supervillian stuff may not happen until the very end of the series (although the Secret Society had been mobilized for a while, but in Marvel, all their decent villians are either Spidey's, overused, or Thunderbolts).

And for those keeping track:

Pro-SHRA:
Iron Man
Mr. Fantastic
Yellowjacket
Doc Samson
Tigra
Ms. Marvel
Spider-Man (for now; the conflict is yet to come)
She-Hulk
*Invisible Woman & Thing seem to be "toeing the line" behind Reed, despite being less gung-ho, especially after Torch's beating

Anti-SHRA:
Capt. America
Falcon
Daredevil (new or old)
Nick Fury (still in hiding)
Wolverine (busy tracking down Nitro, along with Namor presumably)
Bill Foster
Cable
Young Avengers (Vision 2.0 was shown in teaser art for YOUNG AVENGERS/RUNAWAYS, but not in CW#2; Thomas may be a mystery for now)
Cloak & Dagger
Luke Cage
Hercules
*Cyclops and some of the X-Men may also find themselves on this side.
*The Runaways presumably will also be on this side, even if they're very low on the power-scale
Rage, Justice, presumbly the rest of the New Warriors not dead or imprisoned

[King Of The sea]

i cant be on the registriton side cause people know they have powers but this would be exploting them and their abiltys and they would priob have limited rights

and thats the thanks they get for saveing them

[Dread]

Wasp also seems to be "standing by her man" a bit here. I'm still a bit disturbed at how easily Reed has seemed to become a shill for the SHRA side, even to the point where the beating of Johnny doesn't concern him much. Granted, maybe more of that will show up in the F4 tie-ins.

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm a little confused as to Hercues' place in this. Why does he care at all, his "identity" if you wanna call it that; is known to everybody in the world. I could understand if he was against the SHRA out of respect for a buddy but who are Herc's friends? :confused:

[Dread]

I'm a little confused as to Hercues' place in this. Why does he care at all, his "identity" if you wanna call it that; is known to everybody in the world. I could understand if he was against the SHRA out of respect for a buddy but who are Herc's friends? :confused:
Maybe he feels that its unjust to round up "honorable heroes" for not "paying tribute to Ceaser" or something. As a god (or ex-god or whatever the hell he is now), he may not understand the right of "mortals" to dictate authority over some fellow Avengers.

Or he's just in for a good brawl. :p

[Colossal Spoons]

Hehe, yeah I wouldn't be surprised of Herc is in this for a good fight. The opinions of gods or god-like beings will be very interesting to find out. Then to find out why they even care.

I feel bad for the S.H.I.E.L.D. agent who's in charge of documenting Robert Reynold's story :o

[Dread]

I dont understand why Marvel continues to do stuff that has to be retconned away.
Because that way they can use the "we are changing everything and 'putting the genie back in the bottle'" approach when it means selling a hot series, but are completely free to change direction in 1-2 years (the standard length of time for any major Marvel change to universal status quo) if it means selling the NEXT earth-scortching mini.

My concerns with CW aside, I have to at least admit that Millar is pacing the story effectively with plenty of action and so on, and this event is a major improvement over last year's HOM. I know whenever I say that, people go, "well, that's not saying much because HOM was crap". That may be true. But an improvement's an improvement, and we need to acknowledge it to be taken seriously. Marvel obviously wants the emotions to run high (a writer admitted as much in a WIZARD article about the group planning session for CW: the fact that "50% of fans may hate it" was seen as an advantage to some acts), and its working.

For my money? A "major arrest" is supposed to take place, and I'm calling it on Capt. America. I hope I'm wrong, though, because I would like to be surprised by Marvel for a change (and not in a bad way).

[Colossal Spoons]

You're prediction seems way too likely, I'd like a surprise too.

[PWN3R]

42 ruled June 14th. 42 was mentioned in Squadron Supreme and Civil War.

:eek:

JJJ is holding the gun to issue #5. :eek:;)

[BrianWilly]

Vision 2.0 was shown in teaser art for YOUNG AVENGERS/RUNAWAYS, but not in CW#2He was in the issue, actually; he only appears in one panel, and it's only his head, but it's when the kids were still inside the SHIELD detainment truck.
I'm a little confused as to Hercues' place in this. Why does he care at all, his "identity" if you wanna call it that; is known to everybody in the world. I could understand if he was against the SHRA out of respect for a buddy but who are Herc's friends? :confused:
Brevoort talks about Hercules' stance a bit on newsarama:
"I think each character's affiliation is unique to his or her personal circumstances. Hercules, for example, is allied with Cap not because he has any particular stake in the Registration Act, but because Cap is Cap, an old comrade and brother-in-arms who needs his assistance."

[Dread]

You're prediction seems way too likely, I'd like a surprise too.
Especially since Millar already pulled that card in ULTIMATES 2 #9 I believe. Some writers can learn new tricks, and some merely repeat themselves a lot of times. Hopefully Millar can pull off the former; I mean, he's at least capable of toning down his "extremism" from ULTIMATES 2 so that its not as bad in CIVIL WAR (or ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR, his most underrated work currently). Sure, all nameless soldiers are jackbooted, unreasonable bullies in CW, but at least the SHRA side aren't all evil.

I whipped up a little something, but before I post it, let me restate a few things:

1). Overall, I LIKED CIVIL WAR #2, although the storyline along many avenues concerns me because I fear a major retcon coming to avoid writing into a corner.

2). CIVIL WAR is loads better than HOM was, so far, on EVERY level. By #2, HOM was barely started or going in any direction, and squandered any sort of moral dilemma. CIVIL WAR is having a very tense storyline that delivers on action, and not only examines the moral dilemma, but makes a story of it. So in terms of yearly events (like them or brace for them), 2006's an improvement over 2005.

3). I didn't comment on the big "reveal" until after I read the entire comic; as troubling as it may become for Spider-Man in the longterm (if it even lasts more than a year, which is debatable), the last issue of ASM made the reveal inevitable in CW.

That all said...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/TrenchcoatMask/Motivational/motivatorececb1efeca55e8e2f053bac7a.jpg

[Dread]

He was in the issue, actually; he only appears in one panel, and it's only his head, but it's when the kids were still inside the SHIELD detainment truck.

Brevoort talks about Hercules' stance a bit on newsarama:
"I think each character's affiliation is unique to his or her personal circumstances. Hercules, for example, is allied with Cap not because he has any particular stake in the Registration Act, but because Cap is Cap, an old comrade and brother-in-arms who needs his assistance."
That makes sense for Hercules.

And thanks for the spot on Vision 2.0. I missed that. ;)

[supermarvelman]

Wasp also seems to be "standing by her man" a bit here. I'm still a bit disturbed at how easily Reed has seemed to become a shill for the SHRA side, even to the point where the beating of Johnny doesn't concern him much. Granted, maybe more of that will show up in the F4 tie-ins.

I'm sure it concerns Reed more than most people think. He got beat down because of what happened with the NW, if the NW where registered the big incident probably wouldn't have happened. So I think Reed cares for Johnny, but at the same time fully understands why Heroes should register themselves to the government.

[Dread]

I'm sure it concerns Reed more than most people think. He got beat down because of what happened with the NW, if the NW where registered the big incident probably wouldn't have happened. So I think Reed cares for Johnny, but at the same time fully understands why Heroes should register themselves to the government.
On the other hand, the Fantastic Four have been "open" for a good long time, and they've had no end of problems simply because all of their enemies could just knock on their door (and I don't just mean Dr. Doom, but he's the biggie). Of course, Sue underplayed this fact herself in CW #1, so whatever.

And that's not even getting into financial/government issues that the Four have had to deal with over the years that they've been "public".

Reed seemed more caught up in the "think tank" in CW #2 than anything else, but we'll have to see.

[Colossal Spoons]

I wonder if Sue and Reed's inevitable disagreement is gonna be bacause Sue feels differently about the SHRA or if it's just due to Reed's preoccupation with it?

[deemar325]

Wasp also seems to be "standing by her man" a bit here. I'm still a bit disturbed at how easily Reed has seemed to become a shill for the SHRA side, even to the point where the beating of Johnny doesn't concern him much. Granted, maybe more of that will show up in the F4 tie-ins.

Could it be Reed's not himself?

[supermarvelman]

I like whats going on with the Thunderbolts, I wonder whats up Helmut's sleeve?

[Eros]

so now that everyone knows Peter is spider-man, i hope this doesn't mean M.J. or aunt May are gonna have to pay for it with their lives.

[Dread]

I wonder if Sue and Reed's inevitable disagreement is gonna be bacause Sue feels differently about the SHRA or if it's just due to Reed's preoccupation with it?
Or both?

Could it be Reed's not himself?
Must...resist...yet another JLU reference...;)

That hadn't occured to me, but I don't know. Millar and Marvel have strictly said they "won't do a supervillian cop-out" with this storyline, and a possibly "brainwashed Reed" or "alternate dimensional Evil Reed" (i.e. The Brute yet again) would qualify as that. Of course, the "supervillain response" is said to come in #5, which is the beginning of the last third of the story. Marvel's been more than willing to change their stance if it meant "throwing" readers, so perhaps the issue is still up in the air.

[supermarvelman]

I hope Aunt May does so Peter totally regrets going public.

[Dread]

I hope Aunt May does so Peter totally regrets going public.
Marvel already tried killing May once; Mackie pulled a major retcon to undo it, and JMS admittedly did well with May as a character some years since. So I doubt it.

Spider-Man's concern over the fate of his family was the major drawback of him revealing himself (or even registering to begin with). As stated, it is a bit of a shame that CW seems to hypocritically state that heroes who obey the law and register with the government are STILL hypocrites unless they just completely "come out", despite the fact that undercover cops, spy agents, and covert ops are a fact of life in the real world, and mostly are accepted. Still, Spider-Man's supposed to go through a ringer here, so his family may become at least threatened by it.

Plus, he has more people to care about than MJ or May. How about Betty Brant? Flash Thompson? Liz Allen? Heck, maybe Debra Whitman blows her brains out after calling it years ago and believing herself crazy. Or whatever. There's other "shock value" options that a bloodthirsty Marvel or Millar could pursue aside for killing MJ or May, something I doubt Marvel wants to do (especially with SPIDER-MAN 3 under a year away).

[Eros]

well perhaps spider-man/peter parker will finally get rich and famous? Now that the world knows hes spider-man, no more bad luck and fame and fortune in his future. I could see peter useing the money he could make from commercial, and endorsements to finally get paid. I can see a whole new era.

[deemar325]

Or both?


Must...resist...yet another JLU reference...;)

That hadn't occured to me, but I don't know. Millar and Marvel have strictly said they "won't do a supervillian cop-out" with this storyline, and a possibly "brainwashed Reed" or "alternate dimensional Evil Reed" (i.e. The Brute yet again) would qualify as that. Of course, the "supervillain response" is said to come in #5, which is the beginning of the last third of the story. Marvel's been more than willing to change their stance if it meant "throwing" readers, so perhaps the issue is still up in the air.

LOl!