The Official Hype Fitness Thread

[ShadowBoxing]

Just started make on the exercise and diet, mostly working on diet right now.

So maybe this will help you kak, basically what I'm doing is eating all fresh foods (no bags or cans) and only drinking water. I basic meal is some sort of veggie and chicken or fish, and snack on celery and/or baby carrots. I haven't really hit the gym yet; just push-ups, crunches, and I have a heavy bag. And, no cardio at the moment, because it slows your metabolism.

So far great results, about 3 weeks in.
Eating clean as I call it is an excellent way to promote health and stimulate results.

[Super Kal]

Well it depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to not be overweight, then simply restricting your calorie intake and training 3 days a week on cardio, 3 on weights (basic routine) will yield pretty good results.

If you want that sleek, supermodel body, then you're going to have to go about things a little more scientifically.
for now, I just don't want to be overweight... lol, I can tell it's working just by the fact that the exercise bike doesn't moan and groan anymore

I can worry about the supermodel body later.

[Super Kal]

Training in the morning and again in the afternoon is for those of us on steroids. Just do one 45-60 minute work out 4-5 times a week. Make sure to include both cardio and resistance training. Vary it up too, make sure you aren't doing the same old thing everyday. Speed training, interval sprints are an excellent way to promote fat burn. Also train with intensity. Don't just half ass a 30 minute routine, not saying you are, but often people who don't see results don't see them because they don't put enough effort in outside of showing up.
when I do the interval thing, it's usually 5 minutes on the highest setting as fast as I can, and then 5 minutes on the lowest setting, going as fast as I can.

as far as how many times, I try to do it every day, but I may not do it on friday's, because the next day, I mow the lawn, and that takes an hour, but from now on , I think I'll start doing it then as well

[Super Kal]

I feel like I've gotten a lot accomplished over these past months... 45 pounds in 6 months is incredible

[Colossal Spoons]

:up::up:

[Badger]

I feel like I've gotten a lot accomplished over these past months... 45 pounds in 6 months is incerdible

Hell to the yeah, that's awesome.

Keep it up. :up:

[Super Kal]

i just wish weight was constant though... it would make it so much more easier

[ShadowBoxing]

:up::up:
Seconded.

[Super Kal]

i feel so happy :D



BTW, in case you haven't heard it yet, my goal is to get to 160 by next christmas

[ShadowBoxing]

i feel so happy :D



BTW, in case you haven't heard it yet, my goal is to get to 160 by next christmas
You could make that.

[AndThePickles]

I feel like I've gotten a lot accomplished over these past months... 45 pounds in 6 months is incredible

Congrats! :up:

[Super Kal]

You could make that.
I know... I use fitday, and it says that if I lose 1.25 lbs a week, I can make that

[Super Kal]

Congrats! :up:
thanks


I just don't want to fall behind... I think that's my biggest fear right now

[Fran]

I've gotta get something to help my weight loss. Although I'm doing good.

Steroids.

[Colossal Spoons]

I've gotta get something to help my weight loss. Although I'm doing good.

Steroids.

You been eating clean? Don't lie!

[Fran]

I've been eating clean! I'm just joking!

And get Bioshock, buttmunch

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm embarrassed that it took me this long to fix my benching problem. My grip was ENTIRELY too wide. It's no wonder my pecs were running away from each other. More of my pecs are sore the day after lifting, usually it's a lot of shoulder soreness. I'll try to bring my grip in even closer and hopefully I'll develop my inner chest more.

[jaguarr]

I'm embarrassed that it took me this long to fix my benching problem. My grip was ENTIRELY too wide. It's no wonder my pecs were running away from each other. More of my pecs are sore the day after lifting, usually it's a lot of shoulder soreness. I'll try to bring my grip in even closer and hopefully I'll develop my inner chest more.

I posted a link to a vid awhile back that I said was mandatory viewing for anyone doing any kind of chest work. If you didn't watch that, you ought to. :up:

jag

[Colossal Spoons]

I started watching it but had to leave, I'll fish for it now and bookmark it :up:

[Golgo-13]

I've had the flu for the last few days. I'll lay off ANY training until next Monday.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

So I tried to buy, no I did buy a Brita water filter faucet tap. I get home try to install it and the faucet adapters won't fit. SOB, so I call the 1-800 number and everything was pretty easy to follow.

All automated but they say it will take 1-3 weeks to get the additional adapters to fit my faucet. I get them in 5-7 days so pretty damn quick, none of them fit my damn faucet. I send an e-mail and they inform me that they have no additional adapters that will fit. SOB!

So they recommend I go to a plumbing store to find a piece that will fit. SOB!

[Charlie No-One]

I did sit-ups the other day, which I never do on a daily/monthly basis, and the next day (which would be today), I woke up with my ribs hurting very much to the point where I would prefer not to move. What did I do to myself this time?

[jaguarr]

I've had the flu for the last few days. I'll lay off ANY training until next Monday.

:up: Good for you for listening to your body. I took the night off as well. Was feeling pretty run down. Definitely would have just made myself sick if I'd tried to work through it. Rest up, live to fight another day.

So I tried to buy, no I did buy a Brita water filter faucet tap. I get home try to install it and the faucet adapters won't fit. SOB, so I call the 1-800 number and everything was pretty easy to follow.

All automated but they say it will take 1-3 weeks to get the additional adapters to fit my faucet. I get them in 5-7 days so pretty damn quick, none of them fit my damn faucet. I send an e-mail and they inform me that they have no additional adapters that will fit. SOB!

So they recommend I go to a plumbing store to find a piece that will fit. SOB!

Damn, son! What kind of f**ked up pipes you got in that house?

I did sit-ups the other day, which I never do on a daily/monthly basis, and the next day (which would be today), I woke up with my ribs hurting very much to the point where I would prefer not to move. What did I do to myself this time?

Either you used terrible form or you worked muscles your body forgot it had.

jag

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

:up: Good for you for listening to your body. I took the night off as well. Was feeling pretty run down. Definitely would have just made myself sick if I'd tried to work through it. Rest up, live to fight another day.



Damn, son! What kind of f**ked up pipes you got in that house?



Either you used terrible form or you worked muscles your body forgot it had.

jag


No ****, the threads are on the inside of the facuet and none of the adapters fit into it. Aggghhh this is such a headache. But for only (roughly) $20 for 100gal I;m making this ***** work!

[Charlie No-One]

:up: Good for you for listening to your body. I took the night off as well. Was feeling pretty run down. Definitely would have just made myself sick if I'd tried to work through it. Rest up, live to fight another day.



Damn, son! What kind of f**ked up pipes you got in that house?



Either you used terrible form or you worked muscles your body forgot it had.

jag

Terrible form probably. How bad does that affect you?

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

More than likely it's not terrible form, it's probably because you haven't used your abs in such a long time.

[mrvlknight21]

Well situps suck anyways. There is a reason the Marines dropped situps and are now doing crunches as a part of PT(they had a lot of back injuries). There are plenty of superior, safer exercises to work your abs (and dont forget your lower back as part of your core).

[Super Kal]

well, since I can't do lower body exercise right now, i might as well do upper body while I wait for my knee to heal up...

I thought that if I do only the exercise bike, all of my body will change... foolish me...

[jaguarr]

Last week wound up being a wash for me. My leg and back days sucked ass and I was tired to the point that I wound up bagging it both days after a warmup and a couple rounds of exercises. A weekend of rest did me some good and my chest/tri's workout tonight was outstanding, even with a nasty charlie-horse in the back side of my ribs I picked up on Sunday for some unknown reason. :up:

jag

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Ok, so I am a complete *******. I've had the required attatchment for my Brita water filter since they sent me the second package. Damn I'm such a jerk.

[Ghostvirus]

Well situps suck anyways. There is a reason the Marines dropped situps and are now doing crunches as a part of PT(they had a lot of back injuries). There are plenty of superior, safer exercises to work your abs (and dont forget your lower back as part of your core).

What are some of those ways? I am un-able to bend my back, so basically what ever I eat goes straight to my mid-section, so I look good every where but there.

[jaguarr]

Ok, so I am a complete *******. I've had the required attatchment for my Brita water filter since they sent me the second package. Damn I'm such a jerk.

http://www.maggiland.com/stuff/loser.gif

jag

[Super Kal]

What are some of those ways?
I'm curious about that myself...

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

http://www.maggiland.com/stuff/loser.gif

jag


Thanks Jag, I can always count on you to make me feel even worse about myself :up:

[Super Kal]

don't worry, BAH, I've done stupid things like that too...

[Dorian Gray]

.....haven't posted here in awhile, thought this thread died.

Last week sucked for me, got a little lazy....didn't lift at all but I tried to keep up the cardio, flexibility training and strict diet plan enough so as to not lose too much ground.

Today


Wing Chun (First Form): Siu Lum Tao

Sequence Training Routine
Jump Rope (1 minute)
Forward Bend (1 minute)
Cat Stetch (1 minute)
Jumping Jack (1 minute)
Squat (1 minute)
High Kick (1 minute)

Interval Trianing Routine
Shadow Boxing: 3 Minitues (I minute rest)
Shadow Kick Boxing: 2 Minutes (I minute rest)
Roling Vertival Punches: 2 Minutes (I minute rest)
Jump Rope: 5 Minutes (I minute rest)
Heavy Bag: 3 Minutes, Rolling Vertical Punches (I minute rest)
Heavy Bag: 3 Minutes, Jabs, Hook. Backfist (I minute rest)
Makiwara board: 2 Minutes, Straint Punches (I minute rest)

[ShadowBoxing]

.....haven't posted here in awhile, thought this thread died.

Last week sucked for me, got a little lazy....didn't lift at all but I tried to keep up the cardio, flexibility training and strict diet plan enough so as to not lose too much ground.

Today


Wing Chun (First Form): Siu Lum Tao

Sequence Training Routine
Jump Rope (1 minute)
Forward Bend (1 minute)
Cat Stetch (1 minute)
Jumping Jack (1 minute)
Squat (1 minute)
High Kick (1 minute)

Interval Trianing Routine
Shadow Boxing: 3 Minitues (I minute rest)
Shadow Kick Boxing: 2 Minutes (I minute rest)
Roling Vertival Punches: 2 Minutes (I minute rest)
Jump Rope: 5 Minutes (I minute rest)
Heavy Bag: 3 Minutes, Rolling Vertical Punches (I minute rest)
Heavy Bag: 3 Minutes, Jabs, Hook. Backfist (I minute rest)
Makiwara board: 2 Minutes, Straint Punches (I minute rest)

I mean if you're looking to be a serious martial artist...and this is a routine you routinely do more than twice a week, you're doing fine. Lifting is great, I reccomend it to anyone. But it all depends on what you're looking to achieve. If you want to get bigger, this kind of training will get in the way. If you want to get faster and more adept at your moves, I'd stick with this type of training more often and maybe do two days a week of lifting with one extra day of sports specific training lifts.

[Dorian Gray]

I mean if you're looking to be a serious martial artist...and this is a routine you routinely do more than twice a week, you're doing fine. Lifting is great, I reccomend it to anyone. But it all depends on what you're looking to achieve. If you want to get bigger, this kind of training will get in the way. If you want to get faster and more adept at your moves, I'd stick with this type of training more often and maybe do two days a week of lifting with one extra day of sports specific training lifts.

I've been doing Martial Arts for 20 years, Wing Chun being my primary art.

As for my routines, I use the Peripheral Heart Action Workout 3 times a week...I randomize what you see there 3 times a week. I keep an intense schedule. I'm not trying to gain huge muscle..but keep my lean physique.

[ShadowBoxing]

I've been doing Martial Arts for 20 years, Wing Chun being my primary art.

As for my routines, I use the Peripheral Heart Action Workout 3 times a week...I randomize what you see there 3 times a week. I keep an intense schedule. I'm not trying to gain huge muscle..but keep my lean physique.
I figured as much.

[Holly]

what are some healthy ways to be bulimic?

[Dorian Gray]

I figured as much.

I figured you figure as much.:o :cwink:

[ShadowBoxing]

I figured you figure as much.:o :cwink:
Yes, well...very few fighters try to combine bodybuilding (and or powerlifting/heavy weight training) in with their routines. Bruce Lee was one such martial artist who did, but it also helped that his insane genetics granted him pretty much super strength and a high capacity for training.

Aside from that, I've met only a few bodybuilders who incorporate martial arts, but the few I have met seem very skilled in their form. I'll probably re take up some art once I have competeted in my first Bodybuilding competition.

[mrvlknight21]

What are some of those ways? I am un-able to bend my back, so basically what ever I eat goes straight to my mid-section, so I look good every where but there.

You cant bend your back, so whatever you eat goes straight to your midsection? I dont think you understand how fat is formed on the body. It is not a result of a lack of situps.
There are plenty of core exercises that do not require you to pull yourself that far forward like sit ups do (I am assuming these are like police or military style training-fingers interlocked behind the head and elbows much touch the knees).

1) One form of V-ups (you can do them without the medicine ball obviously)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094330370024336215&q=v-ups&total=48&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

2) using a cheap ab wheel (try them from the knees to start)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8973041726018853048&q=ab+exercise&total=1380&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

3)leg raises while hanging from a bar
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1967136484843110220&q=leg+raise&total=239&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

4) bicycle move that everyone knows from Rocky (I like to do these at the end of a workout, as fast as possible, while still maintaining form).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7739614146801970983&q=ab+bicycle&total=176&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9

5) dont forget the obliques!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1752787302369827723&q=flag+ab&total=96&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

6) another version of the v-up (move your upper body towards the lower as well)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8472837602970808507&q=v-up&total=736&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

7) in case v-ups are too hard, here is how to work up to them
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2069375115332545332&q=janda+sit+up&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

and now, 3 moves that work the core without bending or moving (isometrics).
8) the plank-a tough ab and lower back strengthener, hold the position (strict form) as long as you can and gradually work up to a longer time
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137868652111782391&q=plank+ab&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

9) you can do a side plank also
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4418898269451337217&q=plank&total=2660&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

10) L-sit-this move is very advanced, you will feel it all over, but particularly in your core (you can do it from chairs, the floor or something other than the bars this guy has)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=259397781389607960&q=l-sit&total=109&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

To make your pullups harder, do them from the L position

of course, your basic crunch does not put as much strain on your back either, so continue to do those as part of your ab work.

I can think of about 16-20 more moves, but am tired of looking up video. But again, you dont get stomach fat as a lack of situps (or any ab work) and you dont get a 6 pack strictly from them. Also, dont forget about the opposing muscles of the lower back. Try supermans, or if you have the equipment, do hyperextensions.

[mrvlknight21]

what are some healthy ways to be bulimic?

??? I hope this isnt serious.

[Dorian Gray]

Yes, well...very few fighters try to combine bodybuilding (and or powerlifting/heavy weight training) in with their routines. Bruce Lee was one such martial artist who did, but it also helped that his insane genetics granted him pretty much super strength and a high capacity for training.

Aside from that, I've met only a few bodybuilders who incorporate martial arts, but the few I have met seem very skilled in their form. I'll probably re take up some art once I have competeted in my first Bodybuilding competition.


...I'm not much of a talker, which is why I answered you like that...apologizes

Anyways, a recommended read "Bruce Lee: The Art of Expressing the Human Body" by John Little. It details the insane routines he put himself through to acheive such feats.

I used to be one of those Martial Artist that relied only on his MA training. I jogged and perfomed ab exercises but didn't see any real progress other than a low bodyfat percentage....after picking up that book back when it hit shelves, it changed everything. I intensifed my workout adding weight training(which started out in a traditional manner then evolved to the PHA system I use now) and interval training. Now I can do a couple of those feats Bruce could(not to the extent he was able to), such at the elevated V-ups, and 2 finger push-ups on one hand.


...It's up to you which art you decide upon and I don't know how big you are considering you said you're enetering a Bodybuilding competition. I would recomened Wing Chun, for a big guy its perfect...it's also perfect for women(considering it was created by a woman).

[ShadowBoxing]

...It's up to you which art you decide upon and I don't know how big you are considering you said you're enetering a Bodybuilding competition. I would recomened Wing Chun, for a big guy its perfect...it's also perfect for women(considering it was created by a woman).
The comp is 362 days away, so I have a while before I'll start thinking about exactly what to pick up.

[Dorian Gray]

The comp is 342 days away, so I have a while before I'll start thinking about exactly what to pick up.

Yea, do the research, best of luck with it.

Me, I went though 3 other Martial Arts before I settled into Wing Chun....

Aikido
Kenpo
Jujitsu

Aikido 87-90
Kenpo and Jujitsu(Mixed Together) 91-96
Wing Chun 97 to present

[Super Kal]

You cant bend your back, so whatever you eat goes straight to your midsection? I dont think you understand how fat is formed on the body. It is not a result of a lack of situps.
There are plenty of core exercises that do not require you to pull yourself that far forward like sit ups do (I am assuming these are like police or military style training-fingers interlocked behind the head and elbows much touch the knees).

1) One form of V-ups (you can do them without the medicine ball obviously)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094330370024336215&q=v-ups&total=48&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

2) using a cheap ab wheel (try them from the knees to start)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8973041726018853048&q=ab+exercise&total=1380&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

3)leg raises while hanging from a bar
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1967136484843110220&q=leg+raise&total=239&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

4) bicycle move that everyone knows from Rocky (I like to do these at the end of a workout, as fast as possible, while still maintaining form).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7739614146801970983&q=ab+bicycle&total=176&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9

5) dont forget the obliques!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1752787302369827723&q=flag+ab&total=96&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

6) another version of the v-up (move your upper body towards the lower as well)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8472837602970808507&q=v-up&total=736&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

7) in case v-ups are too hard, here is how to work up to them
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2069375115332545332&q=janda+sit+up&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

and now, 3 moves that work the core without bending or moving (isometrics).
8) the plank-a tough ab and lower back strengthener, hold the position (strict form) as long as you can and gradually work up to a longer time
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137868652111782391&q=plank+ab&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

9) you can do a side plank also
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4418898269451337217&q=plank&total=2660&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

10) L-sit-this move is very advanced, you will feel it all over, but particularly in your core (you can do it from chairs, the floor or something other than the bars this guy has)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=259397781389607960&q=l-sit&total=109&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

To make your pullups harder, do them from the L position

of course, your basic crunch does not put as much strain on your back either, so continue to do those as part of your ab work.

I can think of about 16-20 more moves, but am tired of looking up video. But again, you dont get stomach fat as a lack of situps (or any ab work) and you dont get a 6 pack strictly from them. Also, dont forget about the opposing muscles of the lower back. Try supermans, or if you have the equipment, do hyperextensions.
I can't thank you enough for posting these :up:

[Super Kal]

Yea, do the research, best of luck with it.

Me, I went though 3 other Martial Arts before I settled into Wing Chun....

Aikido
Kenpo
Jujitsu

Aikido 87-90
Kenpo and Jujitsu(Mixed Together) 91-96
Wing Chun 97 to present
I gotta admit, dude, I'm jealous

[mrvlknight21]

I can't thank you enough for posting these :up:

No problem. You can always find new exercises on the net for free! :woot:

[MakeMineMarvel]

For the record - my official 90 day summer slim down program completed last week. Lost a total of 50lb with a combination of diet and exercise (280 down to 230.) Pant size dropped at least six (went from a 42 to a slightly loose 36.) The six-pack is thinly visible but while the last 90 days were all about dropping the weight, the next 90 will be all about chiseling it out. I'm less concerned about dropping more pounds at the moment (I'll probably lose another 10 in the next 3 months,) and more concerned about shredding. The programis in place and I'll be jumping into it over the next 2 weeks.

[mrvlknight21]

For the record - my official 90 day summer slim down program completed last week. Lost a total of 50lb with a combination of diet and exercise (280 down to 230.) Pant size dropped at least six (went from a 42 to a slightly loose 36.) The six-pack is thinly visible but while the last 90 days were all about dropping the weight, the next 90 will be all about chiseling it out. I'm less concerned about dropping more pounds at the moment (I'll probably lose another 10 in the next 3 months,) and more concerned about shredding. The programis in place and I'll be jumping into it over the next 2 weeks.

WOW! Awesome results!
Keep us updated on the progress!

[Super Kal]

For the record - my official 90 day summer slim down program completed last week. Lost a total of 50lb with a combination of diet and exercise (280 down to 230.) Pant size dropped at least six (went from a 42 to a slightly loose 36.) The six-pack is thinly visible but while the last 90 days were all about dropping the weight, the next 90 will be all about chiseling it out. I'm less concerned about dropping more pounds at the moment (I'll probably lose another 10 in the next 3 months,) and more concerned about shredding. The programis in place and I'll be jumping into it over the next 2 weeks.
congrats! :):up:
I recently dropped a pants size as well

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

...I'm not much of a talker, which is why I answered you like that...apologizes

Anyways, a recommended read "Bruce Lee: The Art of Expressing the Human Body" by John Little. It details the insane routines he put himself through to acheive such feats.

I used to be one of those Martial Artist that relied only on his MA training. I jogged and perfomed ab exercises but didn't see any real progress other than a low bodyfat percentage....after picking up that book back when it hit shelves, it changed everything. I intensifed my workout adding weight training(which started out in a traditional manner then evolved to the PHA system I use now) and interval training. Now I can do a couple of those feats Bruce could(not to the extent he was able to), such at the elevated V-ups, and 2 finger push-ups on one hand.


...It's up to you which art you decide upon and I don't know how big you are considering you said you're enetering a Bodybuilding competition. I would recomened Wing Chun, for a big guy its perfect...it's also perfect for women(considering it was created by a woman).

Yeah I have that book and it's actually written by Bruce Lee but John Little was able to collect all of this lost information and put it together into several books.

But...and no disrespect meant to Bruce at all, there are many more advanced and much newer and more efficient was of weight training available today.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

don't worry, BAH, I've done stupid things like that too...


Yeah I know we all do, but it doesn't make you feel any less like a jerk :up: :D

[Dorian Gray]

Yeah I have that book and it's actually written by Bruce Lee but John Little was able to collect all of this lost information and put it together into several books.

But...and no disrespect meant to Bruce at all, there are many more advanced and much newer and more efficient was of weight training available today.

Little did interviews with Bruce's students, wife/widow, and friends then complied all of Bruce's notes, some of his philosiphies and such into the book...so in some respects it was written by Bruce himself.

.....and of course there are more advanded and efficant methods out there today but I do use some of Bruce's training methods ...for martial arts that is. Weight Training, I have a personal trainer with a Marcy Circuit Trainer(she works out of her home) so that I can get the full effects of Circuit Training.

[Ghostvirus]

You cant bend your back, so whatever you eat goes straight to your midsection? I dont think you understand how fat is formed on the body. It is not a result of a lack of situps.
There are plenty of core exercises that do not require you to pull yourself that far forward like sit ups do (I am assuming these are like police or military style training-fingers interlocked behind the head and elbows much touch the knees).

1) One form of V-ups (you can do them without the medicine ball obviously)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094330370024336215&q=v-ups&total=48&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

2) using a cheap ab wheel (try them from the knees to start)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8973041726018853048&q=ab+exercise&total=1380&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

3)leg raises while hanging from a bar
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1967136484843110220&q=leg+raise&total=239&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

4) bicycle move that everyone knows from Rocky (I like to do these at the end of a workout, as fast as possible, while still maintaining form).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7739614146801970983&q=ab+bicycle&total=176&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9

5) dont forget the obliques!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1752787302369827723&q=flag+ab&total=96&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

6) another version of the v-up (move your upper body towards the lower as well)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8472837602970808507&q=v-up&total=736&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

7) in case v-ups are too hard, here is how to work up to them
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2069375115332545332&q=janda+sit+up&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

and now, 3 moves that work the core without bending or moving (isometrics).
8) the plank-a tough ab and lower back strengthener, hold the position (strict form) as long as you can and gradually work up to a longer time
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137868652111782391&q=plank+ab&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

9) you can do a side plank also
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4418898269451337217&q=plank&total=2660&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

10) L-sit-this move is very advanced, you will feel it all over, but particularly in your core (you can do it from chairs, the floor or something other than the bars this guy has)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=259397781389607960&q=l-sit&total=109&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

To make your pullups harder, do them from the L position

of course, your basic crunch does not put as much strain on your back either, so continue to do those as part of your ab work.

I can think of about 16-20 more moves, but am tired of looking up video. But again, you dont get stomach fat as a lack of situps (or any ab work) and you dont get a 6 pack strictly from them. Also, dont forget about the opposing muscles of the lower back. Try supermans, or if you have the equipment, do hyperextensions.

Cool. Thanks

[Colossal Spoons]

I tried out Superpump 250 today by Gaspari Nutrition. During the car ride to the gym and the first 20 mins of my workout, I was pumped! For the last 40 mins of my workout I was dizzy, lightheaded and nauseous. My heart was racing too; pretty much everything you'd expect being 3 weeks pregnant to feel like :( I was doing legs/shoulders today and I felt horrible midway through my squats(my 3rd exercise). I'm not sure if malnutrition, the muscle groups I was doing, etc had anything to do with the way I felt so I'm gonna give this stuff a try 1 more time on my back/triceps day before I write it off for good. It's funny because despite feeling like hell, I had a pretty productive workout(moved up in all my reps) :huh:


Also, SuperPump250 should also me called SuperDump250; cuz I was spending quality time in my bathroom about 1.5 hours post-workout

[ShadowBoxing]

My latest leg routine

Leg Day (Tuesday)

Leg Curls 2 x 12 (warm up)

Squat 4x 15,12,8,4
Supersetted with:
Leg Extensions 4x 12

Leg Press 3x8, 6, 4
Supersetted with:
Leg Extensions 3 x 10

Leg Extensions 1x drop sets

Leg Curls 2x 10, 8 (drop setted)
supersetted with
seated calf raises 2x25.

Time 60 minutes

Chest day (Monday)

Incline Bench Press 15 (WU) 4x 10, 8, 6, 5
Supersetted with
Incline flys 4x failure

Flat DB Press 3 x 10, 8, 6
Supersetted with
Cable Flys 3x failure

Dips (weighted) 3x 8,6,6
supersetted with
Planks.

[Colossal Spoons]

Alright, got my BCAAs in the mail yesterday. The recommended dosage for somebody my weight is 6 scoops a day(I'm assuming 2 pre-workout, 2 during, and 2 post-workout). That way this tub will last a month. I didn't expect to finish this thing off in a month :( Can I half the dosage and make it last 2?

[Super Kal]

I gotta admit, I really don't know how some of you don't check your weight so recently...

I'm on my second day to not check, and I'm scared as hell...

[Colossal Spoons]

That just goes to show that you checked it too much.

[AndThePickles]

I tried out Superpump 250 today by Gaspari Nutrition. During the car ride to the gym and the first 20 mins of my workout, I was pumped! For the last 40 mins of my workout I was dizzy, lightheaded and nauseous. My heart was racing too; pretty much everything you'd expect being 3 weeks pregnant to feel like :( I was doing legs/shoulders today and I felt horrible midway through my squats(my 3rd exercise). I'm not sure if malnutrition, the muscle groups I was doing, etc had anything to do with the way I felt so I'm gonna give this stuff a try 1 more time on my back/triceps day before I write it off for good. It's funny because despite feeling like hell, I had a pretty productive workout(moved up in all my reps) :huh:


Also, SuperPump250 should also me called SuperDump250; cuz I was spending quality time in my bathroom about 1.5 hours post-workout

:csad: :csad: :csad: :csad:


I'm really sore today, great workout last night! :woot:

[AndThePickles]

I gotta admit, I really don't know how some of you don't check your weight so recently...

I'm on my second day to not check, and I'm scared as hell...

Sounds like you're much too obsessive compulsive about it.

[Super Kal]

Sounds like you're much too obsessive compulsive about it.
probably...

[jaguarr]

I tried out Superpump 250 today by Gaspari Nutrition. During the car ride to the gym and the first 20 mins of my workout, I was pumped! For the last 40 mins of my workout I was dizzy, lightheaded and nauseous. My heart was racing too; pretty much everything you'd expect being 3 weeks pregnant to feel like :( I was doing legs/shoulders today and I felt horrible midway through my squats(my 3rd exercise). I'm not sure if malnutrition, the muscle groups I was doing, etc had anything to do with the way I felt so I'm gonna give this stuff a try 1 more time on my back/triceps day before I write it off for good. It's funny because despite feeling like hell, I had a pretty productive workout(moved up in all my reps) :huh:


Also, SuperPump250 should also me called SuperDump250; cuz I was spending quality time in my bathroom about 1.5 hours post-workout

Haha! Told you that stuff was crap. :down


Alright, got my BCAAs in the mail yesterday. The recommended dosage for somebody my weight is 6 scoops a day(I'm assuming 2 pre-workout, 2 during, and 2 post-workout). That way this tub will last a month. I didn't expect to finish this thing off in a month :( Can I half the dosage and make it last 2?

Try four scoops. Works well for me. :up:

I gotta admit, I really don't know how some of you don't check your weight so recently...

I'm on my second day to not check, and I'm scared as hell...

You are OCD with the scale. Stay away from it for at least a month.



Legs/Shoulders tonight if I can manage it. I somehow bruised the ball of my right foot right behind my big toe. Painful as hell. We'll see if squats are something I can manage or not. :o

jag

[Mr. Credible]

okay, so, like, back in january, i was up to about 215 lbs, and decided that was enough, so i started working out again, blah blah blah, and got down to about 175 (i was shooting for the 160's, but still) so, then i switched jobs: stress, different schedule, etc... and i haven't been to the gym since i started 3 months ago.

i've only put back on (maybe) 5 lbs, but i know i need to get back into my routine. i've just lost the will to.

not sure what that has to do with anything, i just felt like venting i guess.

[Super Kal]

You are OCD with the scale. Stay away from it for at least a month.


jag
I was going to give it a week... I'll see if I can hang in there for a month...

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha! Told you that stuff was crap. :down

I wonder if NO-Xplode or NanoVapor will be better. I sure hope so :(


Try four scoops. Works well for me. :up:

How do you break that up from before you workout to after. And what do I do on cardio days like today?

[jaguarr]

okay, so, like, back in january, i was up to about 215 lbs, and decided that was enough, so i started working out again, blah blah blah, and got down to about 175 (i was shooting for the 160's, but still) so, then i switched jobs: stress, different schedule, etc... and i haven't been to the gym since i started 3 months ago.

i've only put back on (maybe) 5 lbs, but i know i need to get back into my routine. i've just lost the will to.

not sure what that has to do with anything, i just felt like venting i guess.

Get your ass to work or we'll let Kritish and his new reticulated python sleep in your bed with you. Does that motivate you at all?

I was going to give it a week... I'll see if I can hang in there for a month...

:up: You can do it. I think you need to break this obsessive habit, dude. You're stressing yourself out with it. Stress produces cortisol in the body. Cortisol makes it harder for you to lose fat. See the vicious cycle?

I wonder if NO-Xplode or NanoVapor will be better. I sure hope so :(

You probably don't want my answer, then.


How do you break that up from before you workout to after. And what do I do on cardio days like today?

So, I actually use 6 scoops, but I break it up. Four scoops before and during my workout and then I mix two more in with my vitargo after my workout. On cardio days I do four scoops before and during and then just finish whatever's left afterwards before I get my shake. :up:

jag

[Colossal Spoons]

You probably don't want my answer, then.

I'm just as skeptical as you are. But I can get it dirt cheap and return is just as easily. Tons of people come in askin about the stuff and I can't sell it properly if idk how it makes you feel.



So, I actually use 6 scoops, but I break it up. Four scoops before and during my workout and then I mix two more in with my vitargo after my workout. On cardio days I do four scoops before and during and then just finish whatever's left afterwards before I get my shake. :up:

jag

Right. Wish they sold this stuff at retailers so I didn't have to wait for it to ship.

[Super Kal]

:up: You can do it. I think you need to break this obsessive habit, dude. You're stressing yourself out with it. Stress produces cortisol in the body. Cortisol makes it harder for you to lose fat. See the vicious cycle?

jag
I'll definitely keep that in mind... I recently started doing all my cardio in the morning, and already that's eased a lot of personal stress with dealing with the bike in the afternoon

[jaguarr]

I'm just as skeptical as you are. But I can get it dirt cheap and return is just as easily. Tons of people come in askin about the stuff and I can't sell it properly if idk how it makes you feel.


Here's the problem; this crap effects everyone differently. It may make you feel one way but effect someone else differently. At any rate, both of those products are horribly overrated. Maybe you should invest in some adult diapers if you're going to be experimenting with this stuff? :hyper:

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

Alright, got my BCAAs in the mail yesterday. The recommended dosage for somebody my weight is 6 scoops a day(I'm assuming 2 pre-workout, 2 during, and 2 post-workout). That way this tub will last a month. I didn't expect to finish this thing off in a month :( Can I half the dosage and make it last 2?
Yeah, as Jag said, 4 scoops should be fine. They love to give you these overblown loading phases and large doses...most of which you'll just pee out...to get you to use the product faster.

[jaguarr]

I'll definitely keep that in mind... I recently started doing all my cardio in the morning, and already that's eased a lot of personal stress with dealing with the bike in the afternoon

:up: Adapt and overcome! The added bonus of doing your cardio in the morning is that your glycogen stores are at their lowest which means you get to the fat burning part of your cardio a whole lot quicker than you would in the afternoon. Bonus, dude!

jag

[Super Kal]

your unending encouragement goes a long way with me, jag :up:

[jaguarr]

your unending encouragement goes a long way with me, jag :up:

That's what this thread is for! Now do work! :up:

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

:up: Adapt and overcome! The added bonus of doing your cardio in the morning is that your glycogen stores are at their lowest which means you get to the fat burning part of your cardio a whole lot quicker than you would in the afternoon. Bonus, dude!

jag
Gotta make sure you get in that protien before you hit the morning cardio though.

[jaguarr]

Gotta make sure you get in that protien before you hit the morning cardio though.

Just a liquid BCAA should suffice. A good whey shake would do that, too. That's really for folks looking to protect and build their muscle more than people just looking to burn fat, but both can benefit from it.

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

Just a liquid BCAA should suffice. A good whey shake would do that, too. That's really for folks looking to protect and build their muscle more than people just looking to burn fat, but both can benefit from it.

jag
I'm not suggesting a pound of turkey bacon of anything. I use the whey shake myself before my morning "fast paced walk". But it's never a bad idea to protect lean tissue, it will only help him get rid of more fat stores down the line.

[Colossal Spoons]

Here's the problem; this crap effects everyone differently. It may make you feel one way but effect someone else differently. At any rate, both of those products are horribly overrated. Maybe you should invest in some adult diapers if you're going to be experimenting with this stuff? :hyper:

jag

True. There are a few regulars who are absolutely in love with MuscleTech products and I think they're the scum of the Earth. Dude, they should come w/ diapers. I was so nervous during ATG squatting :O

Yeah, as Jag said, 4 scoops should be fine. They love to give you these overblown loading phases and large doses...most of which you'll just pee out...to get you to use the product faster.

Good stuff. Can't wait to try this stuff out though.

[AndThePickles]

True. There are a few regulars who are absolutely in love with MuscleTech products and I think they're the scum of the Earth. Dude, they should come w/ diapers. I was so nervous during ATG squatting :O


Ewwwww :csad:

[ShadowBoxing]

True. There are a few regulars who are absolutely in love with MuscleTech products and I think they're the scum of the Earth. Dude, they should come w/ diapers. I was so nervous during ATG squatting :O

I've never had that problem. I just hate how ineffective their products are overall...and how every month they come out with something "new and improved" which doesn't do much of anything and is neither "new" or "improved".

[terry78]

I'm trying to get that morning cardio in before it starts to snow. I prefer to run outside, but once the weather changes I'm gonna have to start going to the fitness center after work instead.

[AndThePickles]

I can never do cardio outside. Enjoy the good weather while it lasts though!

[terry78]

I can never do cardio outside. Enjoy the good weather while it lasts though!

I need to be getting somewhere when I run. I can't do treadmills, even if they have lcd tv screens on them.

[Super Kal]

well, every morning, I usually eat 3 Nutri-Grain bars for breakfast... been my breakfast for the past 4 months now

[jaguarr]

well, every morning, I usually eat 3 Nutri-Grain bars for breakfast... been my breakfast for the past 4 months now

Whoa! Mega sugar intake. Better off with some poached eggs and some whole-grain toast or some oatmeal and eggs (or even a whey shake).

jag

[Super Kal]

ok then

[AndThePickles]

Yeah, that's not a very healthy breakfast :csad:

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm trying to get that morning cardio in before it starts to snow. I prefer to run outside, but once the weather changes I'm gonna have to start going to the fitness center after work instead.
I'm saving up for a spin bike and a treadmill

[Super Kal]

Yeah, that's not a very healthy breakfast :csad:
considering my budget, I don't have much of a choice, but I'll give it a try

[jaguarr]

ok then

Notice how I paired something that has complex carbs (oatmeal, whole-grain toast) with a good protein (eggs or whey shake) and some omega fats (eggs again)? That's what you want to try to do with every meal. They balance and compliment each other extremely well from a nutritional standpoint. Throw in some greens and veggies in your later meals and you'll be doing great. :up:

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

considering my budget, I don't have much of a choice, but I'll give it a try
Eggs aren't expensive...actually nothing is if you get a CostCo membership.

[AndThePickles]

Eggs aren't expensive...actually nothing is if you get a CostCo membership.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure eggs are less than nutra-grain bars. Same with most healthy cereals.

[jaguarr]

considering my budget, I don't have much of a choice, but I'll give it a try

You should be able to get whole rolled oats for less than $1 per pound in bulk at your grocery store. Malt-O-Meal also packages them for $4 for almost 4 pounds as well, if you look in your oatmeal section of your store. Whole grain bread can be found for under $1 a loaf if you look around a bit. Cage-free, grain-fed chicken eggs can be had for under $2 per dozen. That's a week of food right there.

How much are you spending every morning to eat three of those Nutrigrain bars? Alot more than $8 per week, I'll bet.

jag

[terry78]

Here's a wacky idea...eat some damn fruit for breakfast. Add some turkey bacon which is pretty much protein and no carbs.

[ShadowBoxing]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure eggs are less than nutra-grain bars. Same with most healthy cereals.
Yeah, I'd imagine so. I don't know what my Organic Rasin Bran costs...but I know my Oatmeal is dirt cheap.

[Super Kal]

Here's a wacky idea...eat some damn fruit for breakfast. Add some turkey bacon which is pretty much protein and no carbs.
I'm not big on fruit... the closest I've gotten in mandarin oranges

[ShadowBoxing]

Here's a wacky idea...eat some damn fruit for breakfast. Add some turkey bacon which is pretty much protein and no carbs.
It's also a ton of sugar. And eggs have more protien than Turkey Bacon...that's only 2 grams of protien per slice.

[terry78]

It's also a ton of sugar.

I thought eating natural fruits and vegetables was the one thing you couldn't get enough of. Even too much fruit is a negative? WTF? :cmad:

[AndThePickles]

It's also a ton of sugar. And eggs have more protien than Turkey Bacon...that's only 2 grams of protien per slice.

It's still important to include fruit in your diet though...I think adding things like blueberries to breakfast is a good idea. Antioxidants FTW!

[ShadowBoxing]

I thought eating natural fruits and vegetables was the one thing you couldn't get enough of. Even too much fruit is a negative? WTF? :cmad:
Drink too much water and it'll kill ya.

Do anything out of moderation, or at the wrong intervals and it can have negative side effects.

[Manic]

Okay, folks. I've got a gym membership that's been going unused for some time. I'm ready to finally go back, as I'm pretty sure my combined fat and high stress are going to give me a young heart attack one day. I want my high school weight back. Like, freshman year weight.

Last time I went to the gym regularly, I lost about 20 pounds. Yay me. At the very least, I already know how to drop a few pounds on my own. But I don't think I did everything right, and I still have questions...

What's the deal with dinner and the gym? I work odd mid-shifts that get me off work between 7 and 9pm-- dinner time. Do I eat dinner before going to the gym, or after? Or does it matter at all?

Water. I've heard that drinking cold liquids forces your metabolism to work harder, thus making it a bit faster if you drink a lot of water. Is this true? And how much is appropriate? I've seen some people nurse a gallon of water all day. Others, I've seen carry a liter to work.

[jaguarr]

What's the deal with dinner and the gym? I work odd mid-shifts that get me off work between 7 and 9pm-- dinner time. Do I eat dinner before going to the gym, or after? Or does it matter at all?

Maybe have a light bite to eat on the way to the gym and then another light bite afterwards. :up:


Water. I've heard that drinking cold liquids forces your metabolism to work harder, thus making it a bit faster if you drink a lot of water. Is this true? And how much is appropriate? I've seen some people nurse a gallon of water all day. Others, I've seen carry a liter to work.

Urban myth. As long as you're getting a gallon of water through you over the course of the day, you're good. The temperature of it doesn't make a damn bit of difference other than whether you personally like it cold or not.

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

It's still important to include fruit in your diet though...I think adding things like blueberries to breakfast is a good idea. Antioxidants FTW!
I include it post-workout and in my second meal/meal replacement shake. Fruits are important, they also help expedite the process of getting nutrients to the body...but that can also work against you.

[Super Kal]

M
Urban myth. As long as you're getting a gallon of water through you over the course of the day, you're good. The temperature of it doesn't make a damn bit of difference other than whether you personally like it cold or not.

jag
that's something I've been wanting to know too

[ShadowBoxing]

that's something I've been wanting to know too
It's not entirely an urban myth. It's quite true that your body burns extra calories drinking ice water instead of room temperature. However...it only ends up burning 17.5 calories every 16 ounces you drink...so not very much.

[mrvlknight21]

Whoa! Mega sugar intake. Better off with some poached eggs and some whole-grain toast or some oatmeal and eggs (or even a whey shake).

jag

WOW! That is what I was thinking!
Try to stick with a nice balance like Jag mentioned (it will certainly add some variety as well). And yes, eggs.wheat toast would be cheaper, I am sure of it.

[terry78]

English muffin with some of that olive oil spread. Looks like butter, tastes like butter, but that **** ain't butter.

[Manic]

Maybe have a light bite to eat on the way to the gym and then another light bite afterwards. :up:
Examples?

[ShadowBoxing]

English muffin with some of that olive oil spread. Looks like butter, tastes like butter, but that **** ain't butter.
Kay, got some good fats...assuming it's the whole wheat kind, it's got some good carbs...but where is the protien.

[ShadowBoxing]

Examples?
Pre-workout I have a meal replacement (just a scoop of whey) with some BCAAs, post workout I have an isolate protien shake with some fruit.

I eat a meal/meal about an hour later.

[jaguarr]

It's not entirely an urban myth. It's quite true that your body burns extra calories drinking ice water instead of room temperature. However...it only ends up burning 17.5 calories every 16 ounces you drink...so not very much.

It's so small a difference that I'm content to call it an urban myth, personally.

jag

[Super Kal]

thanks for the info

[Golgo-13]

Are squats truly the most mutiple-muscle recruiting-single exercise out there?

[Colossal Spoons]

Yes sir. Growth hormone out the whazoo! It's a great compound lift that works everything short of your traps(I'm sure somebody could even find evidence of trap work too ;))

[ShadowBoxing]

Are squats truly the most mutiple-muscle recruiting-single exercise out there?
Yes. They release the most testosterone in the body of any exercise. Also the weight, and it's placement on your back recruit the most muscles.

[jaguarr]

Squats are great, indeed. I'd actually put deadlifts over squats for recruiting the most muscles in a single compound lift, though. :up:

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

Squats are great, indeed. I'd actually put deadlifts over squats for recruiting the most muscles in a single compound lift, though. :up:

jag
I've read reports that under heavy weight squats the body recruits almost all its available muscle fibers. I've never heard such things about a deadlift.

[jaguarr]

I've read reports that under heavy weight squats the body recruits almost all its available muscle fibers. I've never heard such things about a deadlift.

I have, actually. I'll see if I can find that article when I get a chance. It put the two pretty well on par with each other in terms of muscle recruitment. Squats do cause a bigger increase in testosterone and HGH, however. No argument there.

jag

[Golgo-13]

Thought so, which is why when i'm short for time and need a good workout i almost always make sure i do squats.

Also when i do kettlebell one arm snatch, my entire body just short of my calves are sore the next day.

http://www.gamespeed.biz/Renegade%20Training%20Kettlebells_files/kb_snatch_sequence.jpg

[Colossal Spoons]

Kettle bells scare me. I'm always so awkward and goofy when I use them.

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm not a big "one arm snatch" fan either.

[ShadowBoxing]

There is a chick in my gym who makes sex noises when she works out. Actually there is two. It's kinda erotic...but at the same time kind of annoying.

[Golgo-13]

Kettle bells scare me. I'm always so awkward and goofy when I use them.
Takes practice. Start with a light one to get the forms down right, then move up in weight. You'll be surprised at how effect they are at building practical strength. Strength that can be used in Martial Arts (I'm a Brazilain Jiu Jitsu/Muay Thai practitioner).

[mrvlknight21]

Takes practice. Start with a light one to get the forms down right, then move up in weight. You'll be surprised at how effect they are at building practical strength. Strength that can be used in Martial Arts (I'm a Brazilain Jiu Jitsu/Muay Thai practitioner).

I agree. I think you and I have some similar training modalities. I do like to do the 1 arm snatch. I have no kettlebells, but I do use dumbbells for it. A buddy of mine has kettlebells and I would ike to purchase a few, but I dont have the cash and have a good bit of my own equipment as it is.

[Colossal Spoons]

There is a chick in my gym who makes sex noises when she works out. Actually there is two. It's kinda erotic...but at the same time kind of annoying.

Women's tennis FTW!

[snwboarder88]

edit

[jaguarr]

Women's tennis FTW!


You make it sound like the girls at Shadow's gym are doing keigel's with tennis balls.


Decent legs/shoulders workout tonight. Had to pass on the squats, though. The ball of my foot is just too sore for it, still. Don't know what the hell I did to myself, but it f**king hurts. Particularly wakling. :(

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

bumpity. :cyclops:

[Super Kal]

picked up some protein bars, whey mix stuff, and a weight ball yesterday... trying to stay away from unneeded sugar and improve on my protein intake

[jaguarr]

picked up some protein bars, whey mix stuff, and a weight ball yesterday... trying to stay away from unneeded sugar and improve on my protein intake

:up:

Next stop, eggs, whole-grain toast and oatmeal! :up:

jag

[Super Kal]

oh yeah, picked that up too... and not just the regular stuff, either, got Egglands Best eggs and wheat bread...


already have rolled oats

[terry78]

One of our vendors was walking around yesterday passing out free Powerbars and Red Bull. Accident waiting to happen for people that aren't used to eating those things, as they decided to chug the drink along with scarfing down the bar all at once.

[jaguarr]

oh yeah, picked that up too... and not just the regular stuff, either, got Egglands Best eggs and wheat bread...


already have rolled oats


:up:

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

oh yeah, picked that up too... and not just the regular stuff, either, got Egglands Best eggs and wheat bread...


already have rolled oats
Some real good breads to take a look at are Ezekiel Bread.

[MakeMineMarvel]

Hate to jump back on previous supplement subjects, but I've been using Nitrix and I'm pretty happy with the results of that so far also. Fairly priced and works pretty well. Definitely a lot more vascularity as I lean out.

To help with the fat burning I used two products from ALRI. Hyperdrive and Lean Dreams. Both are excellent.

[Super Kal]

One of our vendors was walking around yesterday passing out free Powerbars and Red Bull. Accident waiting to happen for people that aren't used to eating those things, as they decided to chug the drink along with scarfing down the bar all at once.
lol, I bet that turned rotten pretty guick

[mrvlknight21]

picked up some protein bars, whey mix stuff, and a weight ball yesterday... trying to stay away from unneeded sugar and improve on my protein intake

good, good and good!

[jaguarr]

Hate to jump back on previous supplement subjects, but I've been using Nitrix and I'm pretty happy with the results of that so far also. Fairly priced and works pretty well. Definitely a lot more vascularity as I lean out.

To help with the fat burning I used two products from ALRI. Hyperdrive and Lean Dreams. Both are excellent.

Watch out with the nitro products. I seem to recall an article from awhile back that discussed the negative effects of L-arginine intake on HGH production in the body. I also know that L-arginine can cause some serious issues in people with asthma, inflaming the entire respiratory tract and causing serious breathing issues as a result.

Don't know anything about Lean Dreams or Hyperdrive, personally. Some of the fat burner products can be a huge stress on the metabolic and endocrine systems, though.

jag

[Golgo-13]

Just got back from doing legs. How many sets do you guys do on each exercise? I usually do 3 sets.

Here's my leg routine:

Squats - 3 sets of the heaviest weight i can lift without sacrificing form.
Leg extentions- 3 sets (weight varies). I usually do about 8-10 reps.
Straight Leg deadlifts - 3 sets of 8. I usually use the same weight as i used for squats, but wear a belt to protect my lower back.
Leg curls - 3 sets of 8-10(weight varies)
Seated calves raises -i do 4 sets of 25 on this one. I've learned the soleus consists of slow-twitch muscle fibers so responds better to higher reps.
Standing calves raises - 3 sets of 10 (usually the entire stack on the machine).

[doc ock rules!]

Had a good cardio workout today. Feeling more energetic than usual. :up:

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

How do you guys feel about power/strength exercises?

Dead lifts, squats, bench presses, etc. Should they be incorporated into your regular routine, or would I be better off performing one each day along with my regular routine?

So say on Mondays I do bench along with chest, triceps and shoulders.
Tues I just do deadlifts and cardio
Wed I do front squats along with biceps, upper back and abs

and so on....

[Colossal Spoons]

Hate to jump back on previous supplement subjects, but I've been using Nitrix and I'm pretty happy with the results of that so far also. Fairly priced and works pretty well. Definitely a lot more vascularity as I lean out.

New guy at work was chattin me up about that stuff. :up:

[Colossal Spoons]

Just got back from doing legs. How many sets do you guys do on each exercise? I usually do 3 sets.

Here's my leg routine:

Squats - 3 sets of the heaviest weight i can lift without sacrificing form.
Leg extentions- 3 sets (weight varies). I usually do about 8-10 reps.
Straight Leg deadlifts - 3 sets of 8. I usually use the same weight as i used for squats, but wear a belt to protect my lower back.
Leg curls - 3 sets of 8-10(weight varies)
Seated calves raises -i do 4 sets of 25 on this one. I've learned the soleus consists of slow-twitch muscle fibers so responds better to higher reps.
Standing calves raises - 3 sets of 10 (usually the entire stack on the machine).

I do 3 sets of everything.

How do you guys feel about power/strength exercises?

Dead lifts, squats, bench presses, etc. Should they be incorporated into your regular routine, or would I be better off performing one each day along with my regular routine?

So say on Mondays I do bench along with chest, triceps and shoulders.
Tues I just do deadlifts and cardio
Wed I do front squats along with biceps, upper back and abs

and so on....

No routine should exclude squats, bench press, or dead lifts IMO :up:

[AndThePickles]

So ****in sore!

[terry78]

So ****in sore!

You may want to elaborate on that. :o That was a little too vague, and you know how we think on here.

[jaguarr]

No routine should exclude squats, bench press, or dead lifts IMO :up:

:up:

jag

[AndThePickles]

You may want to elaborate on that. :o That was a little too vague, and you know how we think on here.

*sigh* Fine.

My thighs are ridiculously sore from deadlifts on Monday and then doing the eliptical last night. My lower back is sore and my upper back SUPER is.

[Colossal Spoons]

*sigh* Fine.

My thighs are ridiculously sore from deadlifts on Monday and then doing the eliptical last night. My lower back is sore and my upper back SUPER is.

lol

[AndThePickles]

lol


:cmad:

[Golgo-13]

I haven't done it in a while, but think i gonna start doing the 'Leonidas' workout again.

[ShadowBoxing]

I haven't done it in a while, but think i gonna start doing the 'Leonidas' workout again.
What "300" training. *cough*major overtraining*cough*

[Colossal Spoons]

Heh, that workout is a trip


Had a damn good back/bicep workout today. I'm going back to pull/pull and push/push after like 3 months of mix and matching the two. Expected mt biceps to be more useless after a back workout but they were good to go :up:

[mrvlknight21]

Yeah, you know Golgo, you may be the only one on this website who would still even consider doing the 300 workout.
I checked on the 300 thread about a month ago and nobody had posted their results, their photos and all that other big talk that they promised when they caught wind of that stuff.
I guess they showed me.
HA!

[Colossal Spoons]

What ever happened to the contest here at SHH? :D

[ShadowBoxing]

I had a dream this thread reached 20,000 posts and I had to restart it, but when I restarted it the mods had moved it to a subheader of the Community forum devoted entirely to Fitness.

[jaguarr]

I had a dream this thread reached 20,000 posts and I had to restart it, but when I restarted it the mods had moved it to a subheader of the Community forum devoted entirely to Fitness.

:martinlutherkingjr.:

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

One day, our fit brothers and sisters, will be able to segregate themselves to some forum on this SuperHeroHype....I have a dream.

[Super Kal]

I have a serious problem...

every time I start my exercise on my bike, my right knee always ends up in pain before I'm done, and it's definitely hurting my cardio time. It's gotten to the point that a few times, I have to stop the cardio all together because my knee can't handle the pain?

what's wrong? do I need a doc to look at it or something?

[AndThePickles]

Doing ab work with a medicine ball definitely makes a huge difference for me. Glorious pain :heart:

[ShadowBoxing]

I have a serious problem...

every time I start my exercise on my bike, my right knee always ends up in pain before I'm done, and it's definitely hurting my cardio time. It's gotten to the point that a few times, I have to stop the cardio all together because my knee can't handle the pain?

what's wrong? do I need a doc to look at it or something?
Yes. Worst mistake people make with PTs or Fitness types is assume that they are the people to go to for things like pain and discomfort. You should definitely see a doctor over this, especially since any type of "pain" as drastic as your describing could be a sign of something else around the bend.

[jaguarr]

Doing ab work with a medicine ball definitely makes a huge difference for me. Glorious pain :heart:


Remember those Murderball Crotch Pass crunches I posted about awhile back that had Jamal whining like a little *****? Try those with a medicineball. :massivestomachpain: :up:

jag

[jaguarr]

Yes. Worst mistake people make with PTs or Fitness types is assume that they are the people to go to for things like pain and discomfort. You should definitely see a doctor over this, especially since any type of "pain" as drastic as your describing could be a sign of something else around the bend.

:up:

jag

[Super Kal]

Yes. Worst mistake people make with PTs or Fitness types is assume that they are the people to go to for things like pain and discomfort. You should definitely see a doctor over this, especially since any type of "pain" as drastic as your describing could be a sign of something else around the bend.
OK then...

is there any kind of cardio that I can do that doesn't involve the legs?

[ShadowBoxing]

OK then...

is there any kind of cardio that I can do that doesn't involve the legs?
You could go outside and row a boat. Swimming laps is also about as low impact as you can get.

[Super Kal]

You could go outside and row a boat. Swimming laps is also about as low impact as you can get.
of course... it has to be something that I have no way of obtaining...


:(

[jaguarr]

of course... it has to be something that I have no way of obtaining...


:(

Nearby lake, FTW!!!!!! :up:

jag

[Super Kal]

lol, there is no nearby lake... believe me, if there was, I'd be spending an hour every day in it...
not to mention I don't have a car anymore...

[AndThePickles]

Remember those Murderball Crotch Pass crunches I posted about awhile back that had Jamal whining like a little *****? Try those with a medicineball. :massivestomachpain: :up:

jag

Yeah, I did those too, only not with a weighted ball. I can't even imagine the pain with weight added.

[Super Kal]

i recently got one of those... are those good for ab curls and the like?

[AndThePickles]

Yup

[Golgo-13]

What "300" training. *cough*major overtraining*cough*

Well at one point, i was doing it twice a week. I don't consider that over training. The thing i like about it is that it blasts just about every muscle group in a short amont of time.

I did it today, and almost fainted when i got to the final set of pull ups. Haven't done it in a while but i'll work it back into my routine fro sure.

[Cobblepot]

Doing ab work with a medicine ball definitely makes a huge difference for me. Glorious pain :heart:

Must try that, abs get boring after a while.

Any one have a 300 scedule?

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I do 3 sets of everything.



No routine should exclude squats, bench press, or dead lifts IMO :up:

Hmmm, ok I should have been more specific. Instead of including these exercises are part of my routine as they count as 1 set of the 3 sets I would do per body part.

Instead incorporate them at the end of my routine as the one total body exercise I perform....?

[Colossal Spoons]

I had a dream this thread reached 20,000 posts and I had to restart it, but when I restarted it the mods had moved it to a subheader of the Community forum devoted entirely to Fitness.

That would be fantastic. Breaking the stereotype of fat, lazy, comic-nerds.

[Colossal Spoons]

Remember those Murderball Crotch Pass crunches I posted about awhile back that had Jamal whining like a little *****? Try those with a medicineball. :massivestomachpain: :up:

jag

They're a fixture in my ab routine now. PT at the gym calls them Ball Journeys. I'm not saying "ball journey" out loud :(

[kainedamo]

I am getting so fat. Damnit.

[Colossal Spoons]

Do something about it then

[mrvlknight21]

Must try that, abs get boring after a while.

Any one have a 300 scedule?

You can google the 300 test. Good luck and may God be with you.

[strikezone89]

That would be fantastic. Breaking the stereotype of fat, lazy, comic-nerds.

i like being a sterotype

[Holly]

Do something about it then

like not eating spoonfuls of mayonnaise..:dry:

[Colossal Spoons]

That might help :up:

[jaguarr]

Hmmm, ok I should have been more specific. Instead of including these exercises are part of my routine as they count as 1 set of the 3 sets I would do per body part.

Instead incorporate them at the end of my routine as the one total body exercise I perform....?

I do all my compound lifts like squats, deads and bench FIRST in my routine when I am still fresh and have the most energy and strength to put in to them, since they are the most taxing. I want to be able to lift as heavy as I can on those and THEN supplement with some of the other lifts that I do. But the compound stuff is the most important and therefore gets the most priority.

They're a fixture in my ab routine now. PT at the gym calls them Ball Journeys. I'm not saying "ball journey" out loud :(

Tell that knob they're called Murderball Crotch Passes! :cmad:

jag

[Holly]

no one listen to jag, hes fat

[Colossal Spoons]

That "knob". Hahahahahahaha

[bullets]

ive gained almost twenty pounds since being shot in the foot

[Colossal Spoons]

20 lbs of.......



:(

[jaguarr]

no one listen to jag, hes fat

:whatever:

jag

[Holly]

:whatever:

jag

i can help you burn it off :****:

[jaguarr]

i can help you burn it off :****:

:whatever:

jag

[Holly]

someones grumpy

[jaguarr]

someones grumpy

:whatever:

jag

[Colossal Spoons]

You know, I've never seen Mr. Guarr post the ":whatever:" smiley...EVER. Surely not 3x in a row.

[ShadowBoxing]

Isn't Toven on the Kevin Trudeau "fast and colonic" diet?

[jaguarr]

You know, I've never seen Mr. Guarr post the ":whatever:" smiley...EVER. Surely not 3x in a row.

It's reserved only for the most special of people. :up:

jag

[Holly]

You know, I've never seen Mr. Guarr post the ":whatever:" smiley...EVER. Surely not 3x in a row.

i told you he hates me. you didnt believe me

[jaguarr]

i told you he hates me. you didnt believe me

:whatever:

jag

[AndThePickles]

Haha wtf

[Colossal Spoons]

It's reserved only for the most special of people. :up:

jag

I'm just glad to have witnessed it in my short time on this Earth.

i told you he hates me. you didnt believe me

Wonder why? :o


:(

[Electrix]

ARRGGHH

I'm back at college tomorrow and the pants I wore 6 weeks ago are tight! I have to breathe in to get them on!

Someone tell me the highest calorie burning exercise I can do in the house! :D

[terry78]

^I hope you don't plan on fitting into them in one day. :o

[Electrix]

^I hope you don't plan on fitting into them in one day. :o

Yes i'm going to go into overload!!!

:D

No. I know I haven't done exercise in a while. I've got some light dumbbells so I'll start using them and I have a field next to my house so may go for runs.

Water is no my only liquid, well apart from milk on my cereal.

I've become a bit lazy so need to get off my ass!

[ShadowBoxing]

Found this guy on Youtube. He hosts a show called the "Fitness Factor" and his name is Corey. He's been on CNN.

As far as fitness shows go, he hits the basic points on diet and exercise...nothing to goal specific, just the basics. What I like about him is he is accessible to people with no knowledge of fitness of how to accomplish their goals. That, and it has a high production value.

What I don't like about him is 1) his own personal fitness level doesn't appear to be all that astounding and 2) he pushes the instability ball a lot, a piece of equipment that I feel should only be used seldomly.

Just a sampling.

Boxing, Creatine
u1LFp8nxvmQ

5 step guide to fat loss, Abs, Shaker Bottle.
pSPn04QsTss

Travel Fitness
MZzfpdHtSKc

Quick HEALTHY Meals, Protein, Weight Watchers, Core/Abs
q0nTXltxEaI

[Super Kal]

nice :up:

[bullets]

you allneed to talk to richard simmons

[amazingfantasy15]

ARRGGHH

I'm back at college tomorrow and the pants I wore 6 weeks ago are tight! I have to breathe in to get them on!

Someone tell me the highest calorie burning exercise I can do in the house! :D

You're not gonna lose much, if any, weight in one day. Especially if you're out of shape because you won't be able to do much. Add to that, that you'll be too sore tomorrow to even get your pants on.

[Colossal Spoons]

Awesome back/biceps workout. Did 3 sets of 12(165lbs) for deads tonight. Hardly a lot of weight but I need to get my lower back defined before I load up the bar again :D

[jaguarr]

I'ma hit everything but chest & tri's in a little bit. Going on vacation for a few days later this week so I need to cram it all in tonight as I won't be lifting while I'm on my trip. Time for some R&R! :cool:

jag

[Super Kal]

turns out I had an irritated patella... just need to get a brace, put some ice on it, soak it in hot water for 15 minutes a day, and I'm good to go again :up:

[jaguarr]

turns out I had an irritated patella... just need to get a brace, put some ice on it, soak it in hot water for 15 minutes a day, and I'm good to go again :up:

That's good to hear, man. :up:

jag

[Super Kal]

I'm just glad I don't have to go to the doctor... it pays to have a relative in the medical department

[Colossal Spoons]

Quit pissing off your kneecap!

[CyberFaust]

must hit the gym again, i think i'm getting fat...

[jaguarr]

Quit pissing off your kneecap!

No, no, it's not angry with him it just finds him horribly irritating.

jag

[bullets]

must hit the gym again, i think i'm getting fat...


if your posting then your considered fat

[Colossal Spoons]

No, no, it's not angry with him it just finds him horribly irritating.

jag

I'd just cut it off if I were him. Resentment corrodes relationships.

[Super Kal]

No, no, it's not angry with him it just finds him horribly irritating.

jag
at least it's not enflamed

[Super Kal]

any suggestions on where to find knee supports?

[ShadowBoxing]

any suggestions on where to find knee supports?
Most athletic stores and suppliers have them.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

What do you guys think of the PX 90 system or whatever the hell it is called?

[jaguarr]

WTF is the PX 90 system? :huh:

jag

[Super Kal]

picked up a few things for my knee today... hope it works

[ShadowBoxing]

WTF is the PX 90 system? :huh:

jag
The at home workout system, P90X I believe I what he means. It's the one that touts it's muscle confusion technique so heavily on infomercials.

Frankly, IMO it's a workout for sure...but for the price just join a gym.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

The at home workout system, P90X I believe I what he means. It's the one that touts it's muscle confusion technique so heavily on infomercials.

Frankly, IMO it's a workout for sure...but for the price just join a gym.


Yeah that's what I meant. P90X. It looks like it works, my bro in law and sister are using it and he is getting more ripped than he has ever been and she has lost a good amount of weight in roughly a month or two.

But he's been at a gym for years and works out pretty consistently so he knows what he's doing and he seems to like it.

[jaguarr]

I suppose it comes down to what will you use on a regular basis? If you're not going to the gym regularly and working out, but having a system like that makes you work out consistently and can challenge you, then it's a good thing. I personally prefer real weight gear, but I've got the room to have it. If someone had limited space and that was all they could have in their home to use, then it would be better than nothing.

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

I suppose it comes down to what will you use on a regular basis? If you're not going to the gym regularly and working out, but having a system like that makes you work out consistently and can challenge you, then it's a good thing. I personally prefer real weight gear, but I've got the room to have it. If someone had limited space and that was all they could have in their home to use, then it would be better than nothing.

jag
The problem, IMO with P90x is you need various dumbells and a pull up bar...so the sunk costs are fairly high. Plus you need to follow their diet plan...again, sunk costs.

In addition BAH HUMBUG!, most of the guys pushing P90x on television are fitness models. Fitness models and bodybuilders spend a good portion of the year carrying around a little extra weight. It helps them to train and put on mass. The guys pushing the product and who have 'put it to the test', much like your brother are already in shape guys looking to drop vanity pounds. This exercise might challenge you, but it also might leave you with results not reflective of the advertisement. For the money you spend on it I'd go for a more sure thing. It's important that you learn how to train yourself, in the long run, and I think these videos act as a crutch a lot of times for people. P90x goal is to shed pounds and inches and increase definition, but as far as I can see their is no muscle building element to the program.

In addition most of the information they give you on diet, training and technique you can get for free online.

[jaguarr]

Too true that all the people you see using this equipment in advertisements are fitness models. I can guarantee they didn't get the bodies they have by using a Bowflex. Speaking of Bowflex, they've taken to using supposed real Bowflex owners/users in their commercials and if you look at them it supports what Shadow is saying about being toned and losing weight but not really building any muscle.

jag

[Colossal Spoons]

I talked to my mom(a nurse) about this new HCG injecting craze and she just shook her head at America. Haha

[jaguarr]

I talked to my mom(a nurse) about this new HCG injecting craze and she just shook her head at America. Haha

That kid won't provide me with his sources. I think he's avoiding me. :D

jag

[Colossal Spoons]

"Sources"? Can you use that in a sentence please? I'm unfamiliar with the term :D

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

The problem, IMO with P90x is you need various dumbells and a pull up bar...so the sunk costs are fairly high. Plus you need to follow their diet plan...again, sunk costs.

In addition BAH HUMBUG!, most of the guys pushing P90x on television are fitness models. Fitness models and bodybuilders spend a good portion of the year carrying around a little extra weight. It helps them to train and put on mass. The guys pushing the product and who have 'put it to the test', much like your brother are already in shape guys looking to drop vanity pounds. This exercise might challenge you, but it also might leave you with results not reflective of the advertisement. For the money you spend on it I'd go for a more sure thing. It's important that you learn how to train yourself, in the long run, and I think these videos act as a crutch a lot of times for people. P90x goal is to shed pounds and inches and increase definition, but as far as I can see their is no muscle building element to the program.

In addition most of the information they give you on diet, training and technique you can get for free online.

Right of course I understand that. I'm not going to buy it, I am sticking with the gym, I just want to pack on about 10 more lbs then I'm good. I'll start leaning out and changing up my workout routine adding different elements. Well at least I want to, hopefully I will have the time.

I just wanted to see what you guys thought of it. It does seem pretty legit.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Hey how does sleeping/matresses/pillows affect your shoulders/neck/upperback?

[jaguarr]

"Sources"? Can you use that in a sentence please? I'm unfamiliar with the term :D

Momma Spoons: SMH @ U

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

Hey how does sleeping/matresses/pillows affect your shoulders/neck/upperback?
You should have a firm matress...not too firm...but not one of those soft pillowy ones. Other than that, just stick with the basics. You don't need any of these froo froo matresses than claim to promote perfect posture or anything.

[jaguarr]

A bad mattress or poor neck support when you're sleeping can definitely FUBAR your back or neck, no doubt about that.

jag

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Well I think my pillows or the way I sleep may be affecting my shoulders. Grrr

[Colossal Spoons]

Been hearing some talk lately about the positive effects of stacking Beta-Alanine with creatine. Anybody give seeking out additional β-Alanine the thumbs down? It's main thing is acting against muscle failure via lactic acid buildup.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/southfacts_betalanine.htm

[jaguarr]

Been hearing some talk lately about the positive effects of stacking Beta-Alanine with creatine. Anybody give seeking out additional ?-Alanine the thumbs down? It's main thing is acting against muscle failure via lactic acid buildup.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/southfacts_betalanine.htm

They. Want. To. Sell. You. Stuff. ;)

jag

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha, I didn't hear about it from GNC or anything. We got 3 bottles of B-A in and some guys gobbled it up and when I asked why, they talked my ear off.

[jaguarr]

"They" being the supplement companies. Shut up and eat. Shut up and lift. :up:

jag

[Super Kal]

are pull ups a smart thing to do at 250?... or should I wait until I'm lighter?

[jaguarr]

are pull ups a smart thing to do at 250?... or should I wait until I'm lighter?

If you can do 'em, go for it. Just be careful of effing up your shoulders. The more muscle you build, the more fat you are going to burn. Muscle eats fat for fuel and stokes your metabolism up. So doing strength and muscle-building things is going to help you with your goals. You don't even need any weights. Just do pushups, squats, pull-ups, lunges, dips between two chairs, situps, etc. :up:

jag

[Super Kal]

"dips between 2 chairs"?

[jaguarr]

"dips between 2 chairs"?

Sure. Place two chairs so the seats are facing each other. Put your feet up on one end and your palms down somewhat behind you on the other and then let your bodyweight is supported and then lower yourself down and then back up again. Good for the triceps. Sort of like this pic, only your feet are up on a chair:

http://www.welbeck.mod.uk/Fitness/Website/img/chairdip.jpg

jag

[Super Kal]

can I do an hour of cardio and 30 minutes - an hour of weight lifting, or should I cut back on the weight lifting, because I feel I'm not getting enough done in the hour of cardio...

[jaguarr]

can I do an hour of cardio and 30 minutes - an hour of weight lifting, or should I cut back on the weight lifting, because I feel I'm not getting enough done in the hour of cardio...

Do your weight/strength training first for 30 minutes and then do 30 minutes of cardio afterwards three days a week, every other day with two days off the weights. And then on your days away from the weight, do 60 minutes of cardio. Give yourself one full day of rest every week to completely recover. :up:

jag

[Super Kal]

let me get this straight...

Monday
30 weightlifting
30 cardio

Tuesday
60 cardio

Wednesday
30 weightlifting
30 cardio

Thursday
60 cardio

Friday
30 weightlifting
30 cardio

Saturday
60 cardio

Sunday
rest


did I get it right?

[AndThePickles]

Wowza, switching up muscle groupings for lifting days sure does make a difference!