ssj4 vs ssj3

[buutenks]

Some guys just keep saying that ssj4 goku is more powerfull,but I think ssj3 is more powerfull then ssj4.I think ssj1 is stronger then ssj4,what do you guys think?

[Harlekin]

That would be highly illogical, since then there would be no need for Vegeta to turn SSJ4.

[buutenks]

That would be highly illogical, since then there would be no need for Vegeta to turn SSJ4.

But that is gt not z.ssj4 Goku's blasts in gt were weaker then those in the sayan saga.

[Jplaya2023]

Some guys just keep saying that ssj4 goku is more powerfull,but I think ssj3 is more powerfull then ssj4.I think ssj1 is stronger then ssj4,what do you guys think?


just keep quiet

[Harlekin]

But that is gt not z.ssj4 Goku's blasts in gt were weaker then those in the sayan saga.
Well, we are comparing the two aren't we. If SSJ1 was actually stronger than SSJ4, than there would be no need for Vegeta in GT to assume the SSJ4 form. Neither would Gokuu require it either.

[My vengeance]

I think Buutenks is confused by the fact that the feats of SSj 4 Gokou do not seem as impressive as they should.Take for example the time he blew up with Super Juunanagou.The explosion wasn't nearly as impressive as VEGETA SSJ 2 blowing himself up in order to dispose of Buu.It's logical that he should be stronger in the SSj 4 stage,but the creators just screwed it up.

[buutenks]

I think Buutenks is confused by the fact that the feats of SSj 4 Gokou do not seem as impressive as they should.Take for example the time he blew up with Super Juunanagou.The explosion wasn't nearly as impressive as VEGETA SSJ 2 blowing himself up in order to dispose of Buu.It's logical that he should be stronger in the SSj 4 stage,but the creators just screwed it up.

Your right,thats why I said that ssj4 is weaker then ssj1 because he was not that impressive like ssj1 was.But that city lift was impressiv,too bad he sucks at fighting though.

[sexysoccerstud8]

the difference between ssj4 and ssj3 is huge.........for example who is the strongest person goku fought as an ssj3? majin buu......weakest person ssj4 goku beat was bebi as the giant ape ok now compare the two....who is stronger? buu or the monkey bebi?

[Nathan]

It doesn't matter which on is stronger. All of them fall before the might of old man Kuririn.

[buutenks]

the difference between ssj4 and ssj3 is huge.........for example who is the strongest person goku fought as an ssj3? majin buu......weakest person ssj4 goku beat was bebi as the giant ape ok now compare the two....who is stronger? buu or the monkey bebi?

Bebi did no feats that puts him over Frieza let alone Buu,tell me what did Bebi Vegeta do that puts him over Frieza?

[The Hurricane]

SSJ4 is stronger, But i did sort of think sometimes when I was watching that when Goku went SSJ3 he had a better Ki out put thats why he was always drained

[sexysoccerstud8]

bebi vegeta was a GIANT MONKEY need i say more? no one else could hurt him except ssj4 goku the only time goku reverted was when he got the crap knocked out of. he never showed ne sign of being tired like he would have if he was ssj3 and that is b/c ssj3 can only be handled in the other world ne where else he gets tired quickly

[sexysoccerstud8]

it doesnt matter how impressive ssj3 was the enemies were still stronger in gt if ssj1 WAS stronger then old kai would not have made goku try to get his tail to grow back

[sexysoccerstud8]

when goku fought freiza and cell at the same time in H.F.I.L did he transform? noooo he didnt

[Warhammer]

Some guys just keep saying that ssj4 goku is more powerfull,but I think ssj3 is more powerfull then ssj4.I think ssj1 is stronger then ssj4,what do you guys think?

Wow, were you serious or were you just trying to start another meaningless thread?

:cool:

[Warhammer]

Buutenks?
Don't be dumb.

SSJ4 is stronger than SSJ and andything else below it.
Common sense would tell you that.
Obviously, 4 is a larger number than 1.
Come on now, by the evolutuion of the animes DBZ and DBGT, SSJ4 is stronger. There is no possible way you couldve came up with the conclusion that SSJ3 was stronger than SSJ4.

:cool:

[D.Rex]

There isn't a lot of sense to your theory buutenks. Obviously there would be no need for a 4 if 3 or 1 were stronger. I understand your complaints that he SSJ4 Goku didn't do anything to show his strength but at that level what more could the writers have done. At 18,000 power level Vegeta could destroy a planet, Ssj4 Goku is supposed to be in the hundreds of millions if not billions. He can already go faster than the speed of light he can make huge explosions. So without blowing up the universe and killing everyone (all but one of whom he is trying to protect) by blinking his eyes I don't see what more could have been done to show how strong he was. Maybe rip into another dimension who knows but there isn't alot left that Goku hadn't already done or accomplished. The city lift was pretty cool though.

[Silverstein]

None of you understood what the kid was saying. When Goku went super sayajin for the first time he was surging with energy and was lava proof and stuff. Yet as SSJ4 he was weak against the fire dragon.
When Goku went ssj3, he rattled the planet and was practically breaking reality. His blasts did LOTS of damage. Yet as SSJ4, his blasts did very little.

He's not saying that SSJ4 actually IS weaker, he's saying that the creators made him seem that way. His bits of stregnth were weaker looking in GT than his feats in DBZ.


Not that it matters, GT is not even real. They just wanted money so they milked the show(Z) by making a new series(GT). I bet you that if Akira ever wanted to bring back the series, he'd completely ignore GT.

Also Goku did less fighting in GT than he did in Z. Like DBZ is notorious for episodes full of talking and grunting instead of actual fighting, but when they DID fight, it was insane. In GT, most of the fight scenes were rather redundant or stale. Sure, a few may have been cool, but the series was horrid. Goku was portrayed horribly. The reason I'm mentioning that is because, that's probably why Goku appeared weaker.


By the way, it's not a giant monkey, it's called an oozaru..Regardless, Kaio-ken goku did a better fight against oozaru vegeta, than ssj4 goku did against beibi

[My vengeance]

None of you understood what the kid was saying. When Goku went super sayajin for the first time he was surging with energy and was lava proof and stuff. Yet as SSJ4 he was weak against the fire dragon.
When Goku went ssj3, he rattled the planet and was practically breaking reality. His blasts did LOTS of damage. Yet as SSJ4, his blasts did very little.

He's not saying that SSJ4 actually IS weaker, he's saying that the creators made him seem that way. His bits of stregnth were weaker looking in GT than his feats in DBZ.


Not that it matters, GT is not even real. They just wanted money so they milked the show(Z) by making a new series(GT). I bet you that if Akira ever wanted to bring back the series, he'd completely ignore GT.

Also Goku did less fighting in GT than he did in Z. Like DBZ is notorious for episodes full of talking and grunting instead of actual fighting, but when they DID fight, it was insane. In GT, most of the fight scenes were rather redundant or stale. Sure, a few may have been cool, but the series was horrid. Goku was portrayed horribly. The reason I'm mentioning that is because, that's probably why Goku appeared weaker.


By the way, it's not a giant monkey, it's called an oozaru..Regardless, Kaio-ken goku did a better fight against oozaru vegeta, than ssj4 goku did against beibi

Exactly what I said.:up:

[sexysoccerstud8]

actually no goku did better ssj4 then kaio ken.....remember kaio ken goku did lil damage to vegeta. while ssj4 goku pretty much owned bebi vegeta monkey form, and yes i kno that giant ape is actually oozaru i jus refer to it as a giant monkey cuz thats wut it is.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

actually no goku did better ssj4 then kaio ken.....remember kaio ken goku did lil damage to vegeta. while ssj4 goku pretty much owned bebi vegeta monkey form, and yes i kno that giant ape is actually oozaru i jus refer to it as a giant monkey cuz thats wut it is.
O MY FREAKING GOD!

Bebi was Ôgôn Ôzaru aka. Golden Oozaeu aka. SSJ Oozaru.
It incresses the power of the SSJ with 10.
Like Ordernery Ozau incresses the base stat with 10.

SSJ = 3x power
SSJ2 = 3^2 = 9x power
SSJ3 = 3^3 = 27x power
(Of course the stats are lower, since Gokou couldent go SSJ4 in the begining of Babidi saga)

SSJ4 = Ôgôn Ôzaru = 10*3(SSJ) = 30x power

But in GT it probobly was like this:
SSJ Gokou = 2x
SSJ2 Gokou = 2^2 = 4x
SSJ3 Gokou = 2^3 = 8x stats
SSJ4 Gokou = 2*10 = 20x stats
And chibi SSJ3 Gokou was weaker than SSJ adult Gokou.

[buutenks]

SSJ = 3x power
SSJ2 = 3^2 = 9x power
SSJ3 = 3^3 = 27x power
(Of course the stats are lower, since Gokou couldent go SSJ4 in the begining of Babidi saga)

I would say
ssj=3 times the power of base Goku
ssj2=12 times the power of ssj Goku
ssj3=15 times the power of ssj2 Goku

And don't say that ssj2 Goku was almost equal with Kid Buu because that was all filler,ssj2 Goku would lose in 2 seconds against kid buu.

[sexysoccerstud8]

ok so lets all agree that ssj4 is actually more powerful...jus b/c it doesnt seem as impressive as some of the other lvls doesnt mean it isnt stronger like the point proven b4 if ssj4 was weaker there would b no need 4 it. yes ssj3 is extremely powerful and 4 all we kno it could maybe go toe 2 toe wit an ssj4 at the beginning but eventually the ssj3 would shut down b/c of the physical weardown

[Warhammer]

^^ Agreed. :up:

:cool:

[SSJ4_Mikael]

ok so lets all agree that ssj4 is actually more powerful...jus b/c it doesnt seem as impressive as some of the other lvls doesnt mean it isnt stronger like the point proven b4 if ssj4 was weaker there would b no need 4 it. yes ssj3 is extremely powerful and 4 all we kno it could maybe go toe 2 toe wit an ssj4 at the beginning but eventually the ssj3 would shut down b/c of the physical weardown
Lets put it this way:
Gotenkusu who was a kid didn't change to adult when turning SSJ3.
Neither did chibi Gokou.
But when chibi Gokou went SSj4 he got a adult body, since the power was to great to be keept in a childs body.
His potential and power sky-rocket.

[sexysoccerstud8]

well no duh thats the only way goku could get his adult body bak b4 actually growing up. so having to change form like that 4rm kid to adult is enuff proof to say that ssj4 is stronger than ssj3

[Aidan06]

ssj3 powerfuller than ssj4? nonsence, it don't even look anywhere near as good, ssj4 goku looks badass and weird and mystic, ssj3 is just, well, pretty cool but not as tough looking, plus ssj4 goku is way powerfulelr than ssj3, he'd beat him in about 1-2 punchs, ssj3 wouldnt stand toe to toe...

[Spencer9]

Look people.. ss > normal, ss2 > ss, ss3 > ss2 ss4> ss3

[sexysoccerstud8]

there you go that mite help those who cant understand that ssj4 is stronger. and it mite be true that ssj3 couldn't go toe to toe but its possible, it would last a hell of alot longer than any of the other ssj levls.

[buutenks]

When you guys are going to show me a feat that puts ssj4 Goku above ssj3 then I'll say that he is stronger and not ssj3 Goku could not beat baby but ssj4 Goku could because thats GT it's not made by Toryama.

[Warhammer]

Look people.. ss > normal, ss2 > ss, ss3 > ss2 ss4> ss3

^^What is that crap?

[Gotenks]

^^What is that crap?

He is showing that every level is stronger then the one b4 it.............its not that hard.

[Gotenks]

When you guys are going to show me a feat that puts ssj4 Goku above ssj3 then I'll say that he is stronger and not ssj3 Goku could not beat baby but ssj4 Goku could because thats GT it's not made by Toryama.

ok then well we cant say anything from gt ( even tho thats the only time goku goes SSJ4), but besides that do u think two ssj3 fused together could beat omega shenlong?

[buutenks]

ok then well we cant say anything from gt ( even tho thats the only time goku goes SSJ4), but besides that do u think two ssj3 fused together could beat omega shenlong?

On what feats Omega Shenron showed I say Frieza could take him,Frieza could easily take him because when Omega Shenron was punching ssj4 Goku who was in a wall it did not destroy the wall which it should have and their ki attacks barely destroy buildings,their durability is not that good because ssj4 Goku could get cut with glas which ssj1,2,3 could not be cut with glas and ssj1 Goku was lava proof and had no trouble with heat but ssj4 Goku had trouble with 6000 C which is lower then what ssj1 Goku could stand,so Omega Shenron is weaker then Frieza.

[Ultra-Herald9]

ok then well we cant say anything from gt ( even tho thats the only time goku goes SSJ4), but besides that do u think two ssj3 fused together could beat omega shenlong?

I think that two fused ssj3 could easily have beaten omega sheron.

[Aidan06]

thats just the people making the episodes **** with the wlal thing, ssj4 is more powerful than ssj3 because it wouldnt make sence, goku wouild stay ssj3 if it was powerfuller to take shenlong, stop being an ssj3 fanboy it sucks compared to ssj4, goku evolves from ssj1 to 4, in power and physically, it wouldnt make sence that he would become weaker in ssj4, he also looks better and more stronger..

[Aidan06]

and actually 2 fused ssj3's MIGHT take omega shenlong, since the ssj4's played with him, but i doubt they would last the fight, since the energy drains quickly

[buutenks]

thats just the people making the episodes **** with the wlal thing, ssj4 is more powerful than ssj3 because it wouldnt make sence, goku wouild stay ssj3 if it was powerfuller to take shenlong, stop being an ssj3 fanboy it sucks compared to ssj4, goku evolves from ssj1 to 4, in power and physically, it wouldnt make sence that he would become weaker in ssj4, he also looks better and more stronger..

That is because it GT it's not made by Toryama and ssj4 Goku didn't do any feats that puts him above ssj1 let alone ssj2 or ssj3.

[Corinthian™]

That is because it GT it's not made by Toryama and ssj4 Goku didn't do any feats that puts him above ssj1 let alone ssj2 or ssj3.
if that you mention is true than it doesn't make sense for Goku to go all the way to level 4

I mean, by pure logic, ss4 is supposed to be stronger than ss3

[buutenks]

if that you mention is true than it doesn't make sense for Goku to go all the way to level 4

I mean, by pure logic, ss4 is supposed to be stronger than ss3

It is supposed to be more powerful but funimation made it weak.

[Jplaya2023]

It is supposed to be more powerful but funimation made it weak.

AT didnt make it so it dont count.

[Gotenks]

It is supposed to be more powerful but funimation made it weak.


Thats not true i saw the original japanese episodes and the only difference was cursing and more blood.

[Gotenks]

On what feats Omega Shenron showed I say Frieza could take him,Frieza could easily take him because when Omega Shenron was punching ssj4 Goku who was in a wall it did not destroy the wall which it should have and their ki attacks barely destroy buildings,their durability is not that good because ssj4 Goku could get cut with glas which ssj1,2,3 could not be cut with glas and ssj1 Goku was lava proof and had no trouble with heat but ssj4 Goku had trouble with 6000 C which is lower then what ssj1 Goku could stand,so Omega Shenron is weaker then Frieza.

You can't be serious. How would u know if they could not be cut by glass?

[Gotenks]

On what feats Omega Shenron showed I say Frieza could take him,Frieza could easily take him because when Omega Shenron was punching ssj4 Goku who was in a wall it did not destroy the wall which it should have and their ki attacks barely destroy buildings,their durability is not that good because ssj4 Goku could get cut with glas which ssj1,2,3 could not be cut with glas and ssj1 Goku was lava proof and had no trouble with heat but ssj4 Goku had trouble with 6000 C which is lower then what ssj1 Goku could stand,so Omega Shenron is weaker then Frieza.

o sorry i did not mean to quote it again

[Gotenks]

I think that two fused ssj3 could easily have beaten omega sheron.

No way!

[buutenks]

You can't be serious. How would u know if they could not be cut by glass?

Because Friezas ki attack didn't went through ssj Goku.

[Jplaya2023]

Because Friezas ki attack didn't went through ssj Goku.

You ever heard of the after image technique

[buutenks]

You ever heard of the after image technique

Frieza hit Goku in the face to and he didn't even had a cut, and Goku didn't do the after image technique he just moved so fast that it didn't hit him.

[Gotenks]

Because Friezas ki attack didn't went through ssj Goku.

um.......................ok anyways energy attacks have nothing to do with glass.

[Gotenks]

Frieza hit Goku in the face to and he didn't even had a cut, and Goku didn't do the after image technique he just moved so fast that it didn't hit him.


Ok first u say it hit him and now u say he was so fast it didn't hit him. What i remember when frieza threw the disk it did hit him and he had a cut on his cheek. So what ur saying is that when he goes ssj1 goku skin gets stronger but when he goes ssj4 it stays the same?

[SsM]

...this is a useless arguement.... sorry :x my opinion probably doesnt matter though and you will probably never see me in this thread again so i just figured I would add my input.

[Gotenks]

...this is a useless arguement.... sorry :x my opinion probably doesnt matter though and you will probably never see me in this thread again so i just figured I would add my input.

Yeah um ok you can leave now.

[Corinthian™]

DBZ fanboiz should die:up:

[buutenks]

Ok first u say it hit him and now u say he was so fast it didn't hit him. What i remember when frieza threw the disk it did hit him and he had a cut on his cheek. So what ur saying is that when he goes ssj1 goku skin gets stronger but when he goes ssj4 it stays the same?

It hit him one time and it didn't cut him and after that he moved so fast that the other attacks just went through him and I'm talking about the beam that Frieza killed Picolo with.Yes if ssj4 Goku is cut by glas.

[Gotenks]

It hit him one time and it didn't cut him and after that he moved so fast that the other attacks just went through him and I'm talking about the beam that Frieza killed Picolo with.Yes if ssj4 Goku is cut by glas.

no that makes no sense ssj4 is stronger the ssj1 so why would his skin get weaker!

[buutenks]

no that makes no sense ssj4 is stronger the ssj1 so why would his skin get weaker!

If he got cut by glas then his skin got weaker.

[Spencer9]

um SS4 is the strongest.. he got cut by glass because it was written up that way. doesn't mean nothing. ss4>ss3>ss2>ss>kaioken>normal

[Spencer9]

DBZ fanboiz should die:up:

maybe people who post pointless comments should

[Warhammer]

If he got cut by glas then his skin got weaker.

Spell that damn s*** right!
Thats the fifth time you did that.

Go away.

[Warhammer]

It hit him one time and it didn't cut him and after that he moved so fast that the other attacks just went through him and I'm talking about the beam that Frieza killed Picolo with.Yes if ssj4 Goku is cut by glas.

Wrong.

[Warhammer]

If he got cut by glas then his skin got weaker.

Wrong.

[Warhammer]

Frieza hit Goku in the face to and he didn't even had a cut, and Goku didn't do the after image technique he just moved so fast that it didn't hit him.

Wrong.
Dont say he's wrong. Jplaya is right.

[Gotenks]

maybe people who post pointless comments should


Agreed :up:

[Gotenks]

If he got cut by glas then his skin got weaker.


Well u must not have seen FUSION REBORN because it clearly shows SSJ3 goku getting cut on his shoulder!

[buutenks]

Well u must not have seen FUSION REBORN because it clearly shows SSJ3 goku getting cut on his shoulder!

Ssj3 Goku was cut by Janenbas sword.

[Corinthian™]

maybe people who post pointless comments should
my opinion towards fanboiz is not really out of context...

fanboiz should die... they try to over critique every single flaw of everything non-cannon... I can't say I don't do that as I'm baised towards Dragonball more than DBZ.. but sometimes fans turn into fanboiz and then they should be stopped or you'll have comments like Buutenks's.

It is illogical to have a ssj4 version when ssj3 is stronger.. it's pointless to argue that..

it's like saying that kaioken times four is better than times 10, because goku made much more fuzz with kaioken times 4...

[Gotenks]

Ssj3 Goku was cut by Janenbas sword.

Yes and u said that ssj1 could not get cut but ssj4 and ssj3 can!

it was only an orges club then he turned it into a sword.

[Gotenks]

my opinion towards fanboiz is not really out of context...

fanboiz should die... they try to over critique every single flaw of everything non-cannon... I can't say I don't do that as I'm baised towards Dragonball more than DBZ.. but sometimes fans turn into fanboiz and then they should be stopped or you'll have comments like Buutenks's.

It is illogical to have a ssj4 version when ssj3 is stronger.. it's pointless to argue that..

it's like saying that kaioken times four is better than times 10, because goku made much more fuzz with kaioken times 4...


I know its pointless but i want buutenks to realize his mistakes.

[buutenks]

Spell that damn s*** right!
Thats the fifth time you did that.

Go away.

glass,are you happy now?

[Warhammer]

Thank You.
No problem.
I wasnt mad though.

:)

[Aidan06]

the feats that put all db gt villains infront of frieza is that krillin and all the other weak dbz characters stopped fighting really after the android saga, because they were no match, thats why they just sit there and watch with their eyes shaking weirdly (e.g....piccolo..) to waste time instead of fighting because they know 1 hit would own them, where as krillin and gohan in the frieza saga took on some of friezas henchmen...and the elite four (dunno if thats right, forgot all about them by now)

[Warhammer]

They took on the Ginyu Force.
Elite Four are from Pokemon games.

:)

[Gotenks]

Gohan and krillen only took on Guldo. Then Vegeta came in and killed him. Then Vegeta got beatdown as well as Gohan by Recoome. So really Gohan and Krillen did nothing.

[Genesis 1.0]

Vegeta also took out Jase, which I found to be especially gratifying, not to mention coming in and beating down Ginyu in Goku's body. Some of the best material in the saga.

[Gotenks]

Vegeta also took out Jase, which I found to be especially gratifying, not to mention coming in and beating down Ginyu in Goku's body. Some of the best material in the saga.

Yeah Vegeta pretty much killed everyone except Ginyu. Goku just knocked them out.

[PhotoJones]

i agree.

[buutenks]

Yes and u said that ssj1 could not get cut but ssj4 and ssj3 can!

it was only an orges club then he turned it into a sword.

1.The movies are not canon.

2.That was Janenbas sword which is more powerful then a normal sword or glass so that's why ssj3 Goku was cut but still it does not matter because the movies are not canon.

[Gotenks]

1.The movies are not canon.

2.That was Janenbas sword which is more powerful then a normal sword or glass so that's why ssj3 Goku was cut but still it does not matter because the movies are not canon.

It does not matter if it is non canon he was still ssj3 and was still cut. When u said he could not be cut.

[buutenks]

It does not matter if it is non canon he was still ssj3 and was still cut. When u said he could not be cut.

To be cut by glass is not the same as being cut by a sword and it matters if it's non-canon because it's not made by Akira Toryama and if it's not made by him it's not true.

[XwolverineX]

What the *****?!? 4 > 3 >2 > 1.... :confused:

[Warhammer]

To be cut by glass is not the same as being cut by a sword and it matters if it's non-canon because it's not made by Akira Toryama and if it's not made by him it's not true.

I might have to teach you some logic, son.

Back from the post about Goku being cut by glass and being hit by Frieza's beam and all that other crap, I highly doubt that a Super Saiyan's skin would get weaker by reaching a higher power level.

Even though I dont believe that a saiyan's skin somehow gets stronger and more durable as he levels up, The most logical answer to this situation would be that Saiyan's skin gets stronger as a power level increases, not weaker.

:cool:

[Warhammer]

Because Friezas ki attack didn't went through ssj Goku.

An energy beam and glass are two different things,
Totally different substances, etc.

If I throw a rock at you, will it go through you?

I dont mean to dog on you, but i am just trying to make a point.

[Gotenks]

To be cut by glass is not the same as being cut by a sword and it matters if it's non-canon because it's not made by Akira Toryama and if it's not made by him it's not true.

Omg u just dont get it! Yes it is non canon but A.T had everything to do with it just was not part of the manga.I dont get it its like your being stupid on purpose!

[buutenks]

Omg u just dont get it! Yes it is non canon but A.T had everything to do with it just was not part of the manga.I dont get it its like your being stupid on purpose!

I don't think AT had something to do with the movies,those were made by funimation,AT had nothing to do with them.

[buutenks]

An energy beam and glass are two different things,
Totally different substances, etc.

If I throw a rock at you, will it go through you?

I dont mean to dog on you, but i am just trying to make a point.

But the ki beam went through Picolo and glass can't go through him.

[sexysoccerstud8]

so are we still arguing that ssj3 is stronger than ssj4? cuz if we are then you should stop trying to save it b/c there are plenty of points throughout this forum that say and prove that ssj4 is stronger.

[Warhammer]

^He speaks the truth.

:cool:

[Gotenks]

I don't think AT had something to do with the movies,those were made by funimation,AT had nothing to do with them.

wow u really dont know anything do u. so are saying that the people behind funimation made the dbz movies b/c if u think that u are dead wrong they just do voiceovers and edit scenes for theunited states they were made in japan by the one and only A.T

[Warhammer]

Buutenks.
Your wrong.

That ''being cut by glass'' thing was wrong.

SSJ4 is stronger than SSJ3.


The End.
Roll Credits.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

ok im new hear so hello everyone. i was so frustrated at this topic that i had 2 sign up and give my opinion..... now how can u actually think that a ssj3 and i think i heard even a ssj1 is stronger than a ssj 4? thats just crazy..i have some points on why i say this so tell me if im right.

1. chibi goku took on ssj gohan and i belive ssjgoten while he was in his base form when they were infected by baby

2. ssj3 goku faught baby and baby wasnt even bothered by the attacks.

3. uub couldnt beat baby and uub is way stronger than freeza and is about as or a little more stronger than a ssj 2

4. goku took on cell and freeza both on at the same time in hell in his base form never even transformed.

5. ssj4 goku beat baby vegeta , even after baby turned oozaru and had a power up....

one more thing...if ssj 3 is stronger then why didnt ss3 gotenks fight the dragon instead of ss4 gogeta

[November Rain]

although ssj4 was stronger, his antics and feats in comparison to other transformations were not noticeably bigger, the only difference is that we as viewers know he's stronger because we've watched him get stronger.

if we are going purely on the size of feats in comparison to which is the strongest then arguably 100% goku is the most dangerous guise he's taken up.

[Aidan06]

ss4 will always be the most powerful, thats how it goes, they ascend to new levels to defeat the challenge set ahead, they adapt to kill and overpower, they don't get new ****ty transformations to make them weaker than use them, thats not how it goes, ssj4 is way stronger than ss3, on a whole new level, dbz isnt about feats, they don't bench press mountains and lift extreme weights and get compared to supreme speed technology, this is japan, they don't neccessarily want dbz to look uber cool compared to anything else and mega powerful, they are about fighting, and we cannot tell wether or not goku in ssj4 is punching harder than ssj3 by looking, but its obvious ssj4 is the best and strongest

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

although ssj4 was stronger, his antics and feats in comparison to other transformations were not noticeably bigger, the only difference is that we as viewers know he's stronger because we've watched him get stronger.

if we are going purely on the size of feats in comparison to which is the strongest then arguably 100% goku is the most dangerous guise he's taken up.

yeah now that is wat the argument should have been , but some people arent sayin that, they are actually comparing strenght...and that the other forms are stronger not the feats but the strength

[Warhammer]

Wow, this thread was ressurected.

Let the chaos begin.

:(

[November Rain]

yeah now that is wat the argument should have been , but some people arent sayin that, they are actually comparing strenght...and that the other forms are stronger not the feats but the strengthit just comes down to poor communication.

if feats were a direct measurement of strength than there is a case, unfortunately we all know it isn't.

realistically ssj4 exhaling should be enough to destroy a planet, gogeta should be a universal destroying force of nature but it's all played way way way way way way way down for convinience.

it doesn't make them any less strong though.

[sexysoccerstud8]

omg u r still think that ssj3 is stronger than ssj4 buutenks? u really must be dumb, there is more than enough proof that ssj4 is stronger, just because goku got cut by glass as a ssj4 doesnt mean that form is weaker. u kno what? glass is sharp and most of the time it will cut someone. so let's be smart about this and just admit that ssj4 is stronger and will be stronger until the end of time.

[November Rain]

actually the only evidence we really have is simply comparative evidence based on what is implied in the story...

i.e. villains get stronger so he must get stronger to beat them...

however, as a ssj 4, if you compare feats, there's not so much to go on.

[sexysoccerstud8]

there you go, point proven, they wouldn't put out stronger villains if they weren't planning on making another STRONGER form of ssj. who cares about feats? i mean personally i think a form that is so strong that you must go through ozzaru(monkey) to pretty much get to it in the first place is cool. let's see here, incredible power, different hairstyles, a whole new look. yeah, i'm pretty sure ssj4 has feats to go on.

[November Rain]

having a different hairstyle isn't a feat

:confused:

[sexysoccerstud8]

i consider it to be. to be honest the whole blonde hair thing was starting to get old, point is there are good enough feats.

[buutenks]

I have learned that ssj4 Goku is stronger then 3,even though his feats are low.

[sexysoccerstud8]

please explain to me what you mean by feats.

[November Rain]

moving mountains, battle strategy+techniques, endurance, speed, power of blasts...

technically a well portrayed ssj 4 gogeta should have destroyed the earth and other planets simply by charging up.

as powerful as he seemed, his feats were somewhat mediocre.

things like that.

we all know that ssj4 was a powerful transformation in relation but going on purely what is seen, it's impossible to really tell where the gain in power went.

It's the only transformation that occurs that goku has problems with someone just after having it...

well, super saiyan transformation.

i mean goku did get beat up alot in ssj 4 form...

[buutenks]

please explain to me what you mean by feats.

Ssj4 Goku's feats were weak,he's ki blasts were weak,he's punching was weak etc.

[sexysoccerstud8]

well duh fighting a dragonball, a fusion of two androids that absorb energy, an alien that is using your friends body which is in the form of a giant monkey, wouldn't be easy things to take down in a couple of punches, so in dbz he got beat up ALOT in ssj1-ssj3. there weren't as many fights in the mountains in gt, you dont need strategies when you're in ssj4 just b/c of how strong you are. endurance, speed, and power of blasts get cancelled out b/c of how strong the new villains were. remember gogeta was trying to save the universe not blow it up so he wouldn't put all he had into "charging up". please again explain the problems goku had.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

He held back so he didnt destroy everything. the compressed the explotion so they didnt do so much damage, WTF is you prob?
When Bejiita launched that blast on Fruiza to kill him (which was able to destroy Namek) do you really think that blast was more powerful than the Ultimate Sacrefice preformed by Majin Bejiita to eradicate Boo? Cause that didnt even blow up earth...

[November Rain]

well duh fighting a dragonball, a fusion of two androids that absorb energy, an alien that is using your friends body which is in the form of a giant monkey, wouldn't be easy things to take down in a couple of punches, so in dbz he got beat up ALOT in ssj1-ssj3. there weren't as many fights in the mountains in gt, you dont need strategies when you're in ssj4 just b/c of how strong you are. endurance, speed, and power of blasts get cancelled out b/c of how strong the new villains were. remember gogeta was trying to save the universe not blow it up so he wouldn't put all he had into "charging up". please again explain the problems goku had.again, you're using comparative battles based on power levels to give implications of the strength capabilities of others to judge the ssj 4 state.

in the anime, goku only got beaten up once as a sjj and he was ill at the time, he drew with cell but didn't take a senzu bean to recover and carried on fighting. Even so, that's twice.

as ssj 2 when he fights vegeta he's already more powerful than him at this point and just carries on and vegeta sucker punches his 'victory' out of him. Even so, that's three times

as a super saiyan 3 he takes on fat buu and takes on kid buu well, doesn't get beaten up though as he wins. alright let's say he gets beaten once also in gt, so that's four altogether


now as super saiyan four in his very first outing, goku gets beaten bad enough to require a re-charge during battle, that's one. He also gets beaten real good by super 17 and also requires assistance to win. I'm pretty sure the other dragons give him a run for his money (not sure didn't watch it in great detail), but the no 1 dragon as well as the ice and fire ones wear him down pretty good, so that's another. so that's at least three from one transformation.

compared to arguable four from when he turned supersaiyan initially, i would say ssj4 takes a bit of a beating, considering that in super saiyan 1 he was potentially the most powerful being in the universe at that point and z brings in outside phenomena, some of the things that beat goku in gt have been around for quite a while... (not just talking about ssj4 but the series).

to an outise viewer, ssj 4 looks less spectacular/impressive in battle.

[sexysoccerstud8]

what happened when goku went ssj3 as a kid? was he able to hold it for very long? no he pretty much reverted back because his kid body couldn't hold it. but what happened when he went ssj4? he became an adult, so if ssj3 were stronger then y didn't he become an adult when he transformed?

[buutenks]

He held back so he didnt destroy everything. the compressed the explotion so they didnt do so much damage, WTF is you prob?
When Bejiita launched that blast on Fruiza to kill him (which was able to destroy Namek) do you really think that blast was more powerful than the Ultimate Sacrefice preformed by Majin Bejiita to eradicate Boo? Cause that didnt even blow up earth...

No it wasn't,Majin Vegeta made his blast smaller,and I can prove that he could do that if you want.

[November Rain]

He held back so he didnt destroy everything. the compressed the explotion so they didnt do so much damage, WTF is you prob?
When Bejiita launched that blast on Fruiza to kill him (which was able to destroy Namek) do you really think that blast was more powerful than the Ultimate Sacrefice preformed by Majin Bejiita to eradicate Boo? Cause that didnt even blow up earth...again an inconsistency of power outlets for convinience...

the only thing is that majin vegeta definitely looked far more impressive in a battle scenario relative to his earlier self while goku for me 'looked' at his best when up against perfect cell in the cell games...that's when i thought 'oh crap, this guy is really pushing it for all he's worth here...'

[buutenks]

what happened when goku went ssj3 as a kid? was he able to hold it for very long? no he pretty much reverted back because his kid body couldn't hold it. but what happened when he went ssj4? he became an adult, so if ssj3 were stronger then y didn't he become an adult when he transformed?

Dude ssj4 Goku is stronger then ssj3,it's just that Funimation ruined it.

[November Rain]

what happened when goku went ssj3 as a kid? was he able to hold it for very long? no he pretty much reverted back because his kid body couldn't hold it. but what happened when he went ssj4? he became an adult, so if ssj3 were stronger then y didn't he become an adult when he transformed?one could argue the energy exerted at ssj 3 is greater than that used in ssj 4 considering it's a parallel transformation rather than a step up from 3.

technically i think it should be golden oozaru 2 but what the hell...

[buutenks]

again an inconsistency of power outlets for convinience...

the only thing is that majin vegeta definitely looked far more impressive in a battle scenario relative to his earlier self while goku for me 'looked' at his best when up against perfect cell in the cell games...that's when i thought 'oh crap, this guy is really pushing it for all he's worth here...'

Majin Vegeta made his blast smaller so it wont destroy the planet,he made his final flash smaller so it wont destroy the planet,the same thing he did with that attack.

[sexysoccerstud8]

ok im pretty sure goku still got the crap knocked out of him when he fought kid buu. remember goku got hurt so badly that he could no longer stay in ssj3 he in fact used the spirit bomb and won. so id say that not being able to hold a form all together because you got beat that badly would be considered getting beaten up. he only got beat because golden ozzaru multiplies your pl by 100 so take super baby vegeta's pl and multiply it by 100 its gonna be pretty big. goku coulda won against 17 if he could use his energy attacks. the dragons did give him a run for his money they were the dragonballs.

[buutenks]

ok im pretty sure goku still got the crap knocked out of him when he fought kid buu. remember goku got hurt so badly that he could no longer stay in ssj3 he in fact used the spirit bomb and won. so id say that not being able to hold a form all together because you got beat that badly would be considered getting beaten up. he only got beat because golden ozzaru multiplies your pl by 100 so take super baby vegeta's pl and multiply it by 100 its gonna be pretty big. goku coulda won against 17 if he could use his energy attacks. the dragons did give him a run for his money they were the dragonballs.

Not true,like Goku stated that at fpssj3 he could have easily destroyed Kid Buu,and Goku couldn't do anything to kid Buu because Kid BUU could regenerate.And the Oozura makes you 10 times stronger,not 100 times.

[November Rain]

that's a normal one, not a golden one...

[November Rain]

in anycase this thread is just highlighting the lazy animation or un-inventive action scenes and scenarios of GT.

I'm sure if it was made properly, this discussion wouldn't ever occur.

if anyone's got a problem, just put it to lazy writing and cheaper animation costs and let's leave it at that...

[sexysoccerstud8]

yea but goku also held back to give vegeta a chance, so since he did hold back and got his butt handed to him after awhile. forgive me for the mess on the oozaru, i heard once that golden gives you a 100x and normal gives you a 10x but i just looked it up and they are the same

[November Rain]

don't believe that, the maths on teh golden state are certainly not the same as normal....otherwise what would be the point...

[buutenks]

yea but goku also held back to give vegeta a chance, so since he did hold back and got his butt handed to him after awhile. forgive me for the mess on the oozaru, i heard once that golden gives you a 100x and normal gives you a 10x but i just looked it up and they are the same

Where did you look?On a site made by Funimation?If that's so then it's correct.

[Warhammer]

I always believed that Golden Oozaru was way more stronger than Oozaru.
Funimation screwed that one up.

[sexysoccerstud8]

yea i was under that impression 2. but i dk i can't really go into the cartoon show and find out first hand so i have to go wit wut i can c.

[cjhill_14]

well ssj4 goku needed help from #18 to kill super17 he cant be that powerful.and this is a well bad question being that all the villien in dbgt are gay.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

I always believed that Golden Oozaru was way more stronger than Oozaru.
Funimation screwed that one up.

thats true...its like being normal oozaru and then turning ssj...thats wat the last ssj was b4 goku was... a golden oozaru..he could only maintain his ssj form in that state

[November Rain]

apparently that fact is only in anime, and not in manga.

[sexysoccerstud8]

i guess so seeing as how you could see the golden ozzaru when vegeta was explaining the legend of the ssj in the namek saga when he thought goku had transformed.

[Dark-Kenshin]

You people seem to forget that SSJ4 struggled moving a friggin building! A building for crying out loud. Whereas Gohan holds an airplane with one hand without SSJ or mystic. Goku in dragonball was able to easily push a mountain.

You also seem to forget that SSJ4 Gogeta found it impressive to make 3 punches in one second, which is pathetic.

[Jplaya2023]

how is this thread still alive

ssj4 >> ssj3

[Warhammer]

^:up:

Oh God.
Forget what you saw, the animators just didn't make Goku do some of the things that he did in DBZ.

Logic = ssj4>ssj3

[buutenks]

You people seem to forget that SSJ4 struggled moving a friggin building! A building for crying out loud. Whereas Gohan holds an airplane with one hand without SSJ or mystic. Goku in dragonball was able to easily push a mountain.

You also seem to forget that SSJ4 Gogeta found it impressive to make 3 punches in one second, which is pathetic.

First,Gohan holding an airplane is filler,and I don't think that they could lift that much in their normal form in the Buu saga.I say that in their normal form in the Buu saga they were class 100.
Now ssj4 Goku lifted half a city,that puts him above ssj3 Goku and going by logic ssj4 should be more powerful but if you go by feats,then no he isn't.
But I'll say that ssj4 Goku is stronger.


And yeah you're right,the 3 punches in one second is weak,Kid Goku kicked a guy 7 times and punched another guy at the same time 6 times in less then a second,that's 13 hits in less then a second and he wasn't even going all out.
I'll say that kid Goku could punch 100 in one second.
And the fact that Omega shenron kicked and punched Mr. Satan and Videl(you could see that he was trying a bit) and they still didn't died and there is alot of times where this happens.
But hey it happens in every show(though in GT,in almost in every episode this happens).
For e.g:Thanos and a powered up Thor were fighting in a building and they didn't even destroyed it,they just damaged it a bit and the same thing happened with Odin vs Thanos and many other fights,so you see it happens.

[Gotenks]

Yes Its over buutenks has seen the light.

[param]

^nice sig.

And yeah Toei didn't prepare good list of feats for GT. its why they screwed it up. Doesn't change the fact that villains and ssj4's are weaker than anyone in DBZ. lol.

[Gotenks]

O thank you someone else had it but i changed it around a little bit.

[Warhammer]

O thank you someone else had it but i changed it around a little bit.

*Giggles*

[Sloth7d]

Gt sucks. I'm just glad it was non-canon. Because it makes everyone look super pathetic compared to Dbz.