The Single Worst Comic Issue You Have Ever Read

[The Hero]

Mine would be the comic book adaptation of the PC game Doom.With such lines as "Stupid!Stupid!Stupid Imp!You are stupid!Now you're gonna be stupid and dead!" it's a true wonder why a second issue was never produced.

[The Question]

The worst would probably have to be "Batman: The Blue, the Grey, and the Bat". Basically, it's Batman in the old west as a secret agent for the union during the civil war.



Worst. Comic. Ever.

[nogap87]

I know there are far worst comics out there but the one comic that immediately came to my mind when I read the title to this thread was PAD's first Hulk issue after returning to the character after however many years it has been since he last wrote for the title. There was a lot of hype surrounding his return so I decided to pick up the title. To make a short story even shorter, Hulk spends the majority of the issue fighting a shark under water. Decompression at its worst. There was hardly any dialog (sp?) so it took me like 3 minutes to finish the entire issue. I have never regretted buying a comic as much as I did that day.

[nogap87]

Now that I think about it, the first issue of Hulk vs Thing by Bruce Jones was equally dissapointing.

[The Hero]

The worst would probably have to be "Batman: The Blue, the Grey, and the Bat". Basically, it's Batman in the old west as a secret agent for the union during the civil war.



Worst. Comic. Ever.
That's the kind of comic that you can almost respect for it's dedication to stupidity.Sometimes it's more entertaining when something fails spectacularly than when it succeeds mildly.

And other times it just plain sucks.:o

[The Question]

Oh, let me tell you about it. First of all, the reason he dressed like a bat is because one crashed in his window when he received orders from Lincoln to do the spy thing. The didn't have any of his parents dying. Then, he teamed up with his side kick, a native american named Red Bird. Then, they went into town and teamed up with the Dark Knights, former slaves who were now Union soldiers. And the diologue was terrible, and it was horribly sexist towards women, and it just plain sucked ass.

[MaskedManJRK]

Sins Remembered. The only thing that saved it from being torn apart and burned was that it was a library book.

[Super_Ludacris]

I cant remember the really bad ones from my childhood when I was really into comics and collected old and then current ones but the All-Star Batman first 2issues kinda had me looking at it like what the hell especially when I thought it was gonna be good (Miller, Lee)

[BlackSymbiote]

And the diologue was terrible, and it was horribly sexist towards women.

That's because it was set in a time when women were considered property, so OF COURSE it would be sexist.

[Not Jake]

I have had the good fortune (and good sense) to generally stay away from bad comics; however, as a kid I was more impressionable. So I would probably say that it was one of the first three issues of Venom: Lethal Protector, or maybe the issue of Spidey where for some contrived reason they had Doc Ock rescue Spidey from near-death by the Vulture, and then promptly had Doc Ock murdered by Kaine. Ah, yes, I had the misfortune of once owning and reading a few of those issues, with their clone crap:(

So...pretty much any of the very few 90s comics I read. Except for Age of Apocalypse, which seemed kind of cool, though I also thought that stupid issue where that guy with the world's worst haircut turned everyone to ice or diamond or something, thus starting the Age of Apocalypse, and I thought that issue was pure unadultered crap.

[The Question]

That's because it was set in a time when women were considered property, so OF COURSE it would be sexist.


No, it really didn't need to be. I've seen civil war set stories that weren't sexist at all. They just weren't feminist either. The comic I speak of was really bad. As in, the wome's rights group was portrayed as backstabing harpies who for some reason wanted to kill Batman.

[The Hero]

Oh, let me tell you about it. First of all, the reason he dressed like a bat is because one crashed in his window when he received orders from Lincoln to do the spy thing. The didn't have any of his parents dying. Then, he teamed up with his side kick, a native american named Red Bird. Then, they went into town and teamed up with the Dark Knights, former slaves who were now Union soldiers. And the diologue was terrible, and it was horribly sexist towards women, and it just plain sucked ass.Wow,that sounds pretty racist,too.Who the hell wrote that?

[The Question]

Not sure. But whoever it was, they suck ass.

[The Hero]

When was it published?

[The Question]

I don't know. Some times in the 90s.

[JewishHobbit]

I have had the good fortune (and good sense) to generally stay away from bad comics; however, as a kid I was more impressionable. So I would probably say that it was one of the first three issues of Venom: Lethal Protector, or maybe the issue of Spidey where for some contrived reason they had Doc Ock rescue Spidey from near-death by the Vulture, and then promptly had Doc Ock murdered by Kaine. Ah, yes, I had the misfortune of once owning and reading a few of those issues, with their clone crap:(

So...pretty much any of the very few 90s comics I read. Except for Age of Apocalypse, which seemed kind of cool, though I also thought that stupid issue where that guy with the world's worst haircut turned everyone to ice or diamond or something, thus starting the Age of Apocalypse, and I thought that issue was pure unadultered crap.

Huh,.. I actually liked all those things you just mentioned :(

Hmm, bad comic. The comic that comes to mind most is the first issue of Hulk 2099. I bought it because I wanted all those cool covers that the 2099 first issues had, but the story bored me so much that I didn't even desire to get any more of the series. So I guess that'd be mine (though I'm sure I'll think of worse when I'm done typing this)

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I'll hafta agree on PAD's return to Hulk, but most recently th' All-Star comics. They all suck th' big one. At least Batman made sense, Superman was one big WTF?! moment.

[Not Jake]

Huh,.. I actually liked all those things you just mentioned :(
well to be fair I didn't read any of the story before that issue of X-Men, and I DID think the Age of Apocalypse issues I had were cool, but c'mon, liking Venom: Lethal Protector is unforgivable:(

[MaskedManJRK]

but c'mon, liking Venom: Lethal Protector is unforgivable:(

The idea itself is an interesting one. I think it would make a pretty b***hin' comic now if you put it under the MAX label. :o:up:

[Not Jake]

you are beyond hope

[Darthphere]

Trouble.

[The Hero]

Oh,yeah.An entire mini-series based around the idea of making Aunt May a whore.Not to mention some of the most perplexing cover choices ever.

[Darthphere]

Oh,yeah.An entire mini-series based around the idea of making Aunt May a whore.Not to mention some of the most perplexing cover choices ever.


Those covers made me feel like a pedophile.:(

[MaskedManJRK]

Oh,yeah.An entire mini-series based around the idea of making Aunt May a whore.Not to mention some of the most perplexing cover choices ever.

Wha...? :confused:

Details, please.

[Darthphere]

Wha...? :confused:

Details, please.


Trust me, you dont wanna know.

[XFanTim]

Well, if you do want to know, you can see the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_%28comic%29)

[Roughneck]

Worst book EVERRRRRR!!!!


Ultimate Team Up #9

[The Hero]

Wha...?

Details, please.
It's hard to explain,since it was retooled so many,many times,but I'll try.

From the dark minds of Bill Jemas and Joe Quesada comes a new comic to attract preteen female readers...no,wait,it's now a revival of romance comics...no,wait,it's now the true origin of Peter Parker,revealing Aunt May to be Peter's mother...no,wait,it's just a comic about a bunch of dumb,horny kids with no real relevance whatsoever.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/Marvel_Trouble_1.jpg/384px-Marvel_Trouble_1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/77/Marvel_Trouble_2.jpg/384px-Marvel_Trouble_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/66/Marvel_Trouble_3.jpg/384px-Marvel_Trouble_3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/Marvel_Trouble_4.jpg/384px-Marvel_Trouble_4.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d0/Marvel_Trouble_5.jpg/384px-Marvel_Trouble_5.jpg

And now my soul weeps.:(

[Darthphere]

Those covers are almost pedophiliac. COnsidering its depicting 17 year olds.

[KingOfDreams]

Superman was one big WTF?! moment.

And that's why I like it. The stranger the better.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Trouble was pretty good as long as you forget th' Spidey ties.

[MaskedManJRK]

Well, if you do want to know, you can see the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_%28comic%29)

...Okay, that's...interesting...

[The Question]

Aunt May as Pete's mom?



And, how could May and Ben be the same age as Mary and Richard? Ben and May are, and have always been, about ten years older than Mary and Richard.

[The Hero]

That's one of the many reasons that they decided to say it was just some other Mary,Richard,Ben,and May.And a greatful nation thanked them.:up:

[Darthphere]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/Marvel_Trouble_4.jpg/384px-Marvel_Trouble_4.jpg


"Hey, im pregnant."


"Huh"

"Im pregnant"


"Thats nice honey, im watching the game"

[The Hero]

I own the last issue to Chuck Austin's "Holy War" arc in Uncanny X-Men.

Taking over the world using molecularly modified communion wafers=me crying.

[drastic_quench]

Wow. Trouble. That sucks.

Most recently I'd say All-Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder.

From the past... I think I have them all, but I've got to say that a good number of Master's of the Universe comics (the one's that came with the toys) sucked ass. Although they were somehow still better than the cartoon.

[Darthphere]

I own the last issue to Chuck Austin's "Holy War" arc in Uncanny X-Men.

Taking over the world using molecularly modified communion wafers=me crying.


Sad thing is, that couldve been anawesome arc too. Like most of Austen's stuff. I think the only issue he got right were the 2 issue Polaris wedding. But the art makes it unreadable. And a one shot where Husk and Jubilee get kciked out of a funeral home for ebing mutants by the owner and then he finds out Angel's blood cured his kid. Pretty good.:up:

[Erundur]

Well, if you do want to know, you can see the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_%28comic%29)

haha, I remember seeing that on my LCS shelf nobody even touched them from what I remember, I'm glad I stayed away from that :o

[Eric Draven]

I own the last issue to Chuck Austin's "Holy War" arc in Uncanny X-Men.

Taking over the world using molecularly modified communion wafers=me crying.

But they managed to somehow squeak in Mutant 143 just in time for the release of X2! :o

[The Hero]

Not to mention "Wow,that evil nun's kinda hot".

[JewishHobbit]

I loved the first issue of Holy War, but yeah, the second was lame.

[Addendum]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/57010137378.1.GIF
NFL Superpro.

Basically, it's about some football player Phil Grayfield who ****s his knee. He gets some special suit and fights crime. The issue above also has an "anti-steroid message" since the guy he fights took a large amount of 'roids and then suffers 'roid rage and becomes the size of a house. During the fight, the guy gets a heart attack and dies.

[twylight]

Sins Remembered. The only thing that saved it from being torn apart and burned was that it was a library book.

Funny..I felt the same way about Sins Past....Except Sins Remembered felt much more stilted and forced.

Oh,yeah.An entire mini-series based around the idea of making Aunt May a whore.Not to mention some of the most perplexing cover choices ever.

Then they moved to Gwen..:(


Can't say I've ever read a 'bad' comic..though those Marvel Age Team-Ups are really painful to read...>.<

[Sparta*]

WTF is Trouble?! I was going to say another comic was the worst i've ever read...but just looking at those makes me change my mind :down

[MaskedManJRK]

Funny..I felt the same way about Sins Past....Except Sins Remembered felt much more stilted and forced.

Past, though just as blasphonous to the lore, was at least written well enough for me to keep my lunch. Remembered felt like a stupid soap opera with an even stupider storyline.

[The Hero]

I'm sure there are many non-Trouble comics we haven't covered yet.

[Darthphere]

The 4th issue in the Draco arc of Uncanny X-Men, where Chuck Austen ruined Nightcrawler forever.

[The Hero]

Isn't that the one that said Nightcrawler was really a demon?

My soul weeps. :(

[Darthphere]

Yep.

[Sloth7d]

Well, if you do want to know, you can see the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_%28comic%29)
I feel sick.

List of failure Spiderman prodjects since Queseda came to Marvel
-The Other
-Sins Past
-and that

though I probably forgot some.

[Darthphere]

Trouble was really Jemas brainchild, Quesada gets a by for it.

[The Hero]

Question,I found the cover for that Batman story you were talking about.

http://comic.eck24.de/images/BATMANBGB.jpg


Damn,I can't believe that Elliot S. Maggin wrote this peice of ****e. :down

[Sloth7d]

This thread is making my stomach turn. I had no idea such bad ideas were put on the magazine rack. I was going to post my most hated comic, but between Trouble and that comic about Nightcrawler really being a demon... I'm just in aw...

[Ben Urich]

Spider-Man/Black Cat was shaping up to be pretty cool until Quesada nixed the rape idea... the rest was absolutely retarded. Spidey teams up with Daredevil and Nightcrawler (:huh: ) to fight this mutant coke dealer. Utter ****. I'm glad I didn't pay for the conclusion; I sat and read the trade at Barnes & Noble.

Trouble was pretty bad, but I've never been much of a Spidey fan anyway. That said, turning Aunt May into a whore is just beyond forgivable.

The winner (loser? :huh: ) has to go to Captain America: Ice by Chuck Austen and Jae Lee. Austen had a great setup from John Ney Reiber - did the US government know Cap's wherabouts but refuse to reanimate him because he would oppose the development of the atom bomb? I love conspiracy stories, and Jae Lee always does great work, so I had to pick thsi one up...
and Austen delivers an absolute turd of a story. The villain is some blue Atlantean guy, I forget his name, and it's basically six issues of Captain America bumbling around like a ****ing idiot after getting ****ed up by said Anlantean. :down

http://i17.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/64/5c/ba_1_b.JPG

[Phaedrus45]

When I was a kid, I thought one of the worst comics I had ever read was:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/73744081554.15.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=73744081554%2015)

Most recently, though, all the issues in this miniseries was just plain awful:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/52853208551.1.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=52853208551%201)

But, the absolute worst piece of crap Marvel has EVER put out would have to be:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/52244323983.1.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=52244323983%201)

[Ben Urich]

Dude, you read Megamorphs? :csad:

[Darthphere]

Spider-Man/Black Cat was shaping up to be pretty cool until Quesada nixed the rape idea... the rest was absolutely retarded. Spidey teams up with Daredevil and Nightcrawler (:huh: ) to fight this mutant coke dealer. Utter ****. I'm glad I didn't pay for the conclusion; I sat and read the trade at Barnes & Noble.

Trouble was pretty bad, but I've never been much of a Spidey fan anyway. That said, turning Aunt May into a whore is just beyond forgivable.

The winner (loser? :huh: ) has to go to Captain America: Ice by Chuck Austen and Jae Lee. Austen had a great setup from John Ney Reiber - did the US government know Cap's wherabouts but refuse to reanimate him because he would oppose the development of the atom bomb? I love conspiracy stories, and Jae Lee always does great work, so I had to pick thsi one up...
and Austen delivers an absolute turd of a story. The villain is some blue Atlantean guy, I forget his name, and it's basically six issues of Captain America bumbling around like a ****ing idiot after getting ****ed up by said Anlantean. :down

http://i17.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/64/5c/ba_1_b.JPG


Dude, thats the worst. Ice had so much potential.

[Ben Urich]

Dude, thats the worst. Ice had so much potential.

You should go to Amazon and read some of the reviews. Check this out:
Why would a writer whose entire political agenda amounts to a massive urination upon everything and all things that Captain America stands for, even WANT to do this? To tear down something that he hates because it is better than he can ever be himself?

Perhaps.

That would fit in with his extremist political POV. His side always tries to tear down that which is better than them, rather than exert the effort necessary to rise to the higher level.

Buy this book ONLY if you viscerally hate America and the ideals upon which it is based.

But if you are sickened by freedom, this one is for you.

He gave it 4 stars. :huh:

[The Hero]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/52244323983.1.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=52244323983%201)
Somebody buuuuuuuuy this
Jemas had to put out a second mortage on his home just to be able to puuuuuublish this
He doesn't care if you like it,as long as you buuuuuuuuy this

Okay,that kinda sucked.But still not as bad as Marville.

[Darthphere]

You should go to Amazon and read some of the reviews. Check this out:


He gave it 4 stars. :huh:


Maybe he really hates America.

[droogiedroogie2]

Oh, let me tell you about it. First of all, the reason he dressed like a bat is because one crashed in his window when he received orders from Lincoln to do the spy thing. The didn't have any of his parents dying. Then, he teamed up with his side kick, a native american named Red Bird. Then, they went into town and teamed up with the Dark Knights, former slaves who were now Union soldiers. And the diologue was terrible, and it was horribly sexist towards women, and it just plain sucked ass.You know, there was a lot of sexism back in the time of the Civil War...

And I don't notice Sin City getting posted in this thread for it's misogyny...or maybe it has, and I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[droogiedroogie2]

Anyway, my number-one worst of all time comic issue ever is:

King Batman. Can't remember which issue it was, sometime in the Silver Age. It sucked. Balls. All over town.

On a symbolic level, whichever issue was Stan Lee's first, is my most hated issue.

[droogiedroogie2]

No, it really didn't need to be. I've seen civil war set stories that weren't sexist at all. They just weren't feminist either. The comic I speak of was really bad. As in, the wome's rights group was portrayed as backstabing harpies who for some reason wanted to kill Batman.Well, that's not dialogue. That's story. Now I get your drift.

[droogiedroogie2]

I'll hafta agree on PAD's return to Hulk, but most recently th' All-Star comics. They all suck th' big one. At least Batman made sense, Superman was one big WTF?! moment.A Wolverine fan would think ASB made sense. If you had a sense of history, you'd recognize Morrison's references to Silver Age DC alongside his brilliant writing. Much better than the Batman book, and I'm a hardcore Batman fan.

[Ben Urich]

All Star Superman is ****ing brilliant. Too bad I had to drop it. :down
****ing college. :csad:

[The Question]

Question,I found the cover for that Batman story you were talking about.

http://comic.eck24.de/images/BATMANBGB.jpg


Damn,I can't believe that Elliot S. Maggin wrote this peice of ****e. :down

Who's Eliot S. Maggin?

You know, there was a lot of sexism back in the time of the Civil War...

Yeah. But the story didn't have to be intentionally sexist, which it was.

And I don't notice Sin City getting posted in this thread for it's misogyny...or maybe it has, and I just haven't gotten to it yet.

How can you accuse Sin City of misogyny when Miho is so ****ing badass?

[Wolfwood]

Spider-Man/Black Cat was shaping up to be pretty cool until Quesada nixed the rape idea... the rest was absolutely retarded. Spidey teams up with Daredevil and Nightcrawler (:huh: ) to fight this mutant coke dealer. Utter ****. I'm glad I didn't pay for the conclusion; I sat and read the trade at Barnes & Noble.

Trouble was pretty bad, but I've never been much of a Spidey fan anyway. That said, turning Aunt May into a whore is just beyond forgivable.

The winner (loser? :huh: ) has to go to Captain America: Ice by Chuck Austen and Jae Lee. Austen had a great setup from John Ney Reiber - did the US government know Cap's wherabouts but refuse to reanimate him because he would oppose the development of the atom bomb? I love conspiracy stories, and Jae Lee always does great work, so I had to pick thsi one up...
and Austen delivers an absolute turd of a story. The villain is some blue Atlantean guy, I forget his name, and it's basically six issues of Captain America bumbling around like a ****ing idiot after getting ****ed up by said Anlantean. :down

http://i17.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/64/5c/ba_1_b.JPG

Wow, that sounded like it could've been a fantastic story.

BTW what was Marville about? I'm guessing by the cover and tittle it was a take on Smallville?

The worst stories I've ever read were Sins Remembered, anything from Xtreme X-Men, most of the Batman stories written by Doug Moench and this comic called Xenobrood, that was written by Moench as well.

[The Hero]

Who's Eliot S. Maggin?
He wrote a bunch of classic Superman stories in the 70's.Do you have a copy of Kingdom Come? He's the guy who wrote the introduction.

[The Hero]

BTW what was Marville about? I'm guessing by the cover and tittle it was a take on Smallville?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marville_%28comics%29

I never read it,but the covers alone made me want to burn things.

http://www.thepunishercomics.com/comics/appearances/marville/marville_2.jpg


Pathetic. :down

[fifthfiend]

You know, there was a lot of sexism back in the time of the Civil War...

And I don't notice Sin City getting posted in this thread for it's misogyny...or maybe it has, and I just haven't gotten to it yet.

There's a difference between writing characters who live at a time when misogyny is commonplace, and just misogynistic writing.

Dunno which of those the particular book in question was, just thought that ought to be said.

Also to be honest, I've always thought that in the context of Sin City's overall misanthropy, women come off relatively well. In keeping with the above, it comes off more as a portrayal of a deeply misogynistic world, rather than a misogynistic piece of writing in and of itself.

misogynymisogynymisogynymisogynymisogynymisogynymi sogyny. Sorry I just wasn't going to be happy unless I wrote that word like eight or nine more times.

I never read it,but the covers alone made me want to burn things.

The covers are the absolute high points of those comics.

[gildea]

war machine the second mini by chuck austen was laughable
the first arc in the relaunch of cap had a story line that actually offended me but what I consider the best art of john cassaday that i've ever seen.
get kraven by ron zimmerman was terrible.

[OtepApe]

The first Reggie Hudlin issue of Spider-man: The Other.

Granted the entire story, concept and execution were horrendous. But I was honestly puzzled as to why Reggie Hudlin was allowed to write anything let alone comic books. Aunt May and MJ in Iron Man armour in Latveria??? Some weirdo emotional moment that wasn't emotional but really just poor with time travelling, Uncle Ben and well nothing.

Add in the art??? of Pat Lee and you have an incredibly bad issue of a comic book.

[yenaled]

I'm curious as to why Darth decided to buy Trouble in the first place to read it.

[The Hero]

Wikipedia's Trouble entry contains some valuable information:

Contrary to speculations among comic book fans, the models on the covers were confirmed legal adults.


And with that,one of the comic book world's greatest mysteries is finally put to rest.

[droogiedroogie2]

Funny how so many of these are Marvel issues...what?

Actually, the two worst comics I've ever read are the Batman/Onstar two-shot crossover. I mean really, it was a Batman/Onstar crossover miniseries, two issues, featuring Batman taking down the Riddler and Freeze with the help of Onstar. Of course, he had all the Onstar features and more in the Batmobile before, without the easily hackable call-in service, so he wouldn't really need it, which is exhibit A of why the books are bad. Exhibit B is the ****ty, ****ty, ****ty, Marvelly, ****ty writing. And subpar art.

[Max J Power]

This parody comic called "Elf Trek." My friend bought it for 10 cents. It was so unfunny that he thought about taking it back to the store and demanding his money back.

[Kool-Aid]

The Amazing Spider-Girl #1.

[DKR]

Batman: I Joker is without a doubt the worst piece of ***** ever published

[GNR]

Question,I found the cover for that Batman story you were talking about.

http://comic.eck24.de/images/BATMANBGB.jpg


Damn,I can't believe that Elliot S. Maggin wrote this peice of ****e. :down

That did make for one cool action figure though.

My choice without a doubt was Wolverine Origins and Endings by Daniel Way.(36-40)

Worst piece of crap I've ever read and 16 some odd dollars I'll never get back.

[Arkady Rossovich]

The worst issue?It would have to be Grant Morrison`s X-Men run.The run that took the X-Men down...

[Kraven]

Marvel Knights: Spider-Man #20

[droogiedroogie2]

The covers are the absolute high points of those comics.I hate to flog this dead horse, but you just don't run into guys talking this much **** on anything DC publishes. I mean, you guys are vicious.

[droogiedroogie2]

Does anybody want to read the Batman/Onstar miniseries? Because I could totally hook you up with some phat scans and ****.

[gildea]

I hate to flog this dead horse, but you just don't run into guys talking this much **** on anything DC publishes. I mean, you guys are vicious.

you should check the dc boards....

[droogiedroogie2]

you should check the dc boards....I'm there all the time, although I never bother to read the 96-page threads with the overly general title, "Official [Insert Title Here] Discussion Thread." ****in' moronic. But yeah, I don't jump into those, because I hate to pick up in the middle of a series, and I don't have the time or energy to read the back issues.

But on all the other threads, the only stuff like this I really hear is from The Leaguer, and he's too over-the-top to really be taken seriously.

[fifthfiend]

I hate to flog this dead horse, but you just don't run into guys talking this much **** on anything DC publishes. I mean, you guys are vicious.

Bull****, I talk like fifty times more **** about stuff DC publishes. Here: The high point of every Supergirl comic would be the covers, except the covers look like the awful, horrendous **** inside the pages of every Supergirl comic, therefore, the covers of Supergirl comics are just as ****ty and awful as everything else in a Supergirl comic.

If they only had the decency to put say a photograph of a baby being aborted on the cover of every Supergirl comic, then I could say with confidence that the covers are the least-awful part of any Supergirl comic. In fact, if the covers of Supergirl comics actually murdered you by looking at them then shoot, that would be awesome, because then I'd be spared the horrible fate of actually having to read a Supergirl comic.

There, see? Way more vicious.

[droogiedroogie2]

Bull****, I talk like fifty times more **** about stuff DC publishes. Here: The high point of every Supergirl comic would be the covers, except the covers look like the awful, horrendous **** inside the pages of every Supergirl comic, therefore, the covers of Supergirl comics are just as ****ty and awful as everything else in a Supergirl comic.

If they only had the decency to put say a photograph of a baby being aborted on the cover of every Supergirl comic, then I could say with confidence that the covers are the least-awful part of any Supergirl comic.

There, see? Way more vicious.Oh, you thilly goothe. I know you just made that up.

[fifthfiend]

Oh, you thilly goothe. I know you just made that up.

Aw shucks there good buddy, I'll even quote:

Kudos to you on your restraint and good sense. Her solo book is so awful that if you read it, you'll be forced to hate the Legion book on principle. May you continue to enjoy the only comic which portrays Kara Zor-El in a way that is actually somewhat likeable. Instead of violently and offensively awful on every level.

Sort of the problem was instead of writing an interesting, likable Supergirl, they had her turn up and be like "Hey losers! You HAVE to ****ing love me, I'm SUPERGIRL!"

Really for my money the whole thing pretty much went bad right where Wonder Woman showed up and was all "That's it I'm kidnapping her and making her an Amazon, because **** you." It just jammed the characater into a hard right and shot her off into total WTF?, and there's just been no good way since to pull her back. Waid's taken the best approach of anybody, by just ignoring all of that stupid **** and writing Supergirl like she should be, but I can't even read that just cause I know it's still the same girl who runs around the DCU screaming *****es, you'll love me cause I TELL YOU TO.

I still maintain the only way left to fix this awful mess is to have the real Kara Zor-El shoot down in a rocket ship, slap the **** out of Britney Zor-El, and be like sorry guys, that was my evil demented clone. And then they just go from there.

...I'd also like to take this opportunity to once again say that if they'd even just had the simple hack-sense to rip off the DCAU Supergirl wholesale, it would all have worked out fine.

Now that's not really fair. I mean if Supergirl showed up on my doorstep, I'd totally punch her for being there.

I mean I'm not even Kryptonian so I'd probably just break my hand, but just on general principle I mean come on, you kind of have to.

But anyway for my money those fights were lame less because of how they happened, and more because they happened and then Supergirl PWNZZ0R3D the **** out of everybody involved, in increasingly ridiculous and improbable ways, as part of DC's ongoing theme of 0MG SUPERGIRL = TEH AWESSUMZEST SUP3RH3R0 EVVAS ROFLMA0MGWTFBBQ!!!!!1111oneeleven!

It was like 0MG let's have Supergirl beat up Superboy cause she's more awesome than Superboy! 0MG let's have Wondergirl use Wondergirl's unbreakable Zeus-powered lasso on Wondergirl and then Supergirl beats the crap out of Wondergirl, cause Supergirl's more awesome than Wondergirl AND ZEUS! 0MG let's have Supergirl beat up the Outsiders wearing a KRYPTONITE BRACELET because Supergirl's more awesome than the Outsiders AND KRYPTONITE! 0MG let's have Supergirl beat up the ENTIRE JUSTICE LEAGUE, LEX LUTHOR, EVIL SUPERGIRL, THE SOURCE, AND THE GHOST OF JACK KIRBY, because Supergirl is so awesome that her awesomeness EXCEEDS INFINITY ITSELF. And then let's have Superman punch her in the face because we're DC comics and we like seeing men beat up girls.

I'm not saying that the tissue-thin, arguably non-existent pretexts established for said fights were not themselves mind-bogglingly stupid, it's just I look at that more as a symptom of DC deciding to do something as inherently stupid as SUPERGIRL PWNZ0RR3Z T3H DCU SG = TEH R0XXORZ ROFLLOL0MG!!!!11ELEVEN to begin with.

It could be Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Stan Lee, Oscar Wilde and Mark goddamn Twain on this book, it still wouldn't be any good.

The earth is salted, the well is poisoned, the bed is well and truly shat.

And that's all from just one thread, I'm pretty sure I've been even more vicious in my other condemnations of Supergirl.

Really and just so's I've said it, but I repeat all this here, not because I have some need to convince you that my hatred for DC Comics outstrips my hatred for Marvel comics, or to defend the truth of previous post, but simply because I will happy take any opportunity and excuse to reiterate just how goddamn much I goddamn hate Supergirl. The Worst Thing in All of Comics History, Ever.

... Oh wait, except for anything ever written by Frank Miller. Homoerotic pedophilia FTW!

[droogiedroogie2]

Aw shucks there good buddy, I'll even quote:

And that's all from just one thread, I'm pretty sure I've been even more vicious in my other condemnations of Supergirl.

Really and just so's I've said it, but I repeat all this here, not because I have some need to convince you that my hatred for DC Comics outstrips my hatred for Marvel comics, or to defend the truth of previous post, but simply because I will happy take any opportunity and excuse to reiterate just how goddamn much I goddamn hate Supergirl. The Worst Thing in All of Comics History, Ever.

... Oh wait, except for anything ever written by Frank Miller. Homoerotic pedophilia FTW!OK. No one except fifthfiend, who has a lovable mad-on for Supergirl, posts this kind of super-negative crap about DC books. At least, if they do, I must have missed it.

While we're on the subject, it was a little over the top to have Supergirl ROXXORZING (where did that ROXXORZ thing come from, anyway?) everybody, but I haven't felt that pissed about the character's treatment. Of course, given my metafictional philosophy of "it's a universe unto itself, blame the characters not the writers," I very rarely feel pissed about much of anything that goes on in fictional universes. Know what does piss me off though? You guessed it--senseless retcons that make no attempt to reconcile with previous continuity. Quesada's Marvel.

[Ben Urich]

The worst issue?It would have to be Grant Morrison`s X-Men run.The run that took the X-Men down...

Shut the **** up.

[The Hero]

You know,Grant Morrison being a good writer is a relatively new idea to me.During his run on X-Men everyone was *****ing about how it was the worst comic ever,how it destroyed everything good about the book,and how Morrison was a hack who was going straight to hell for offending them.I've since learned that the rants of hopeless fanboys usually don't reflect the majority.

Urich,didn't you used to have an avatar of Xorn with a hamburger back when you were Incurock?

[The Question]

OK. No one except fifthfiend, who has a lovable mad-on for Supergirl, posts this kind of super-negative crap about DC books. At least, if they do, I must have missed it.

I talk crap about DC all the time. The way they mishandle most of their characters who aren't the Big Seven, the fact that they constantly ignore the in continuity Virtigo characters such as The Endless, John Constantine, Lucifer, and Swamp Thing, pretty much everything Geoff Johns has done with Green Lantern and Teen Titans, the way that Superman's villains are being returned to theif far worse Pre-Crisis characterizations as opposed to their much more deep and well rounded Post-Crisis characterizations, Emoboy Prime having "retcon punches" as one of his powers, the return of Jason Todd, the pussifying of Darkseid, the blatant bending of characters in terms of characterization and apearance to reflect whatever TV shows and movies there are about said characters, and their seeming inability to let there be any character that Superman cannot defeat in personal combat are all things I've complained about in great detail.

[PaleRider]

There are some good choices here (Marville) but the first thing I think of is When Frank Dreams, the issue of the punisher writen by Ron Zimmerman during the break Ennis took on Marvel Knights. When Frank dreams of going back in time and killing Al Capone. The thing that really did it was when Reed Richards sends him back and he commants how smart Reed is and is Reed ever went bad he'd be a very dangerous villian so he might kill him just in case when he gets back. It took me like 2 weeks to read that comic it was so horrible I didn't want to pick it up.

[droogiedroogie2]

I talk crap about DC all the time. The way they mishandle most of their characters who aren't the Big Seven, the fact that they constantly ignore the in continuity Virtigo characters such as The Endless, John Constantine, Lucifer, and Swamp ThingI thought everyone was glad that the Vertigo characters got to be all "realistic" and all that crap. If they do ever bring them back in, they have to dispense with this real-time notion. Constantine can't be turning fifty while everyone in a costume is perpetually late-30s.

Emoboy Prime having "retcon punches" as one of his powers, the return of Jason ToddHey, at least there's an explanation for all the unexplained retcons since COIE. Not that I am at all pleased with the intellectually lazy explanation for Jason's resurrection, mind you.

I complain about DC stuff too, and I know a lot of people do. But it never quite seems to reach the same fever pitch, except with fifthfiend. Man, that guy does not like Supergirl. I never really sat back and thought about it until he showed me all those posts...but man, he does not like Supergirl.

[Darthphere]

Are we going to get back to talking about crappy comics again?

[fifthfiend]

We can talk about how Crisis on Infinite Earths was a crappy comic, I'm always down for that.

You guessed it--senseless retcons that make no attempt to reconcile with previous continuity.

You mean like "I punched reality, so now it's different" senseless retcons? Cause DC's got those.

Or maybe you mean like "Donna Troy died, and since we apparently all cared so much about Donna Troy, we're all going to start acting like totally different characters now" retcons? Cause those are great, too.

Or no wait, what about "Well we all had this secret from like forever ago, which is suddenly the most importantest thing in the entire universe ever, even though none of us have actually been at all concerned about it in any way, shape, or form, over the course of something like ten full years of continuity" senseless retcons? Those are sensational.

No wait wait my all time favorite: "Leslie Thompkins murders people now, and if that bothers you, then Bill Willingham will call you a queer." There's just no topping that, for stupid, senseless retcons.

[The Question]

I thought everyone was glad that the Vertigo characters got to be all "realistic" and all that crap. If they do ever bring them back in, they have to dispense with this real-time notion. Constantine can't be turning fifty while everyone in a costume is perpetually late-30s.

Not true. The members of the JSA age in real time. Besidfes, from what I understand, John stopped having real time birthdays a while ago.

Hey, at least there's an explanation for all the unexplained retcons since COIE. Not that I am at all pleased with the intellectually lazy explanation for Jason's resurrection, mind you.

I complain about DC stuff too, and I know a lot of people do. But it never quite seems to reach the same fever pitch, except with fifthfiend. Man, that guy does not like Supergirl. I never really sat back and thought about it until he showed me all those posts...but man, he does not like Supergirl.

I just have more self control, is all.

[fifthfiend]

I just have more self control, is all.

I just really enjoy hating things.:up:

OK. No one except fifthfiend, who has a lovable mad-on for Supergirl, posts this kind of super-negative crap about DC books.

Wasn't I your single example for people posting super-negative crap about Marvel books?

[Ben Urich]

You know,Grant Morrison being a good writer is a relatively new idea to me.During his run on X-Men everyone was *****ing about how it was the worst comic ever,how it destroyed everything good about the book,and how Morrison was a hack who was going straight to hell for offending them.I've since learned that the rants of hopeless fanboys usually don't reflect the majority.

Morrison is the best thing that ever happened to the X-Men. They were always so... stale.

Really, if the X-Men weren't such cash cows, Marvel would have been smart to stop printing X-Men comics after Here Comes Tomorrow. There's no way anyone will ever approach that level of brilliance again. His run can't be topped. :up:

Urich,didn't you used to have an avatar of Xorn with a hamburger back when you were Incurock?

Damn skippy :up:
As far as I'm concerned, it was Magneto under there all along. The contrived bull**** Quesada has fed us about there being twins, an impostor, all that... that's garbage.

[droogiedroogie2]

We can talk about how Crisis on Infinite Earths was a crappy comic, I'm always down for that. Boy, if it has Supergirl in it...

You mean like "I punched reality, so now it's different" senseless retcons? Cause DC's got those.Senseless retcon, yes, but it does reconcile with previous history because it gives a reason that history changed. But I didn't really get much enjoyment out of Batman Annual 25, no.

Or maybe you mean like "Donna Troy died, and since we apparently all cared so much about Donna Troy, we're all going to start acting like totally different characters now" retcons? Cause those are great, too.Not a retcon.

Or no wait, what about "Well we all had this secret from like forever ago, which is suddenly the most importantest thing in the entire universe ever, even though none of us have actually been at all concerned about it in any way, shape, or form, over the course of something like ten full years of continuity" senseless retcons? Those are sensational....? You refer perhaps to the people trapped in the post-Crisis pocket universe? Still not a retcon.

No wait wait my all time favorite: "Leslie Thompkins murders people now, and if that bothers you, then Bill Willingham will call you a queer." There's just no topping that, for stupid, senseless retcons.He called someone a queer? And again, it may be a retcon, it may be senseless, but it does reconcile with previous history. It's totally possible, going back and reading War Games, that Leslie could have killed Spoiler.

[The Hero]

He called someone a queer?
From Willingham's own mouth:

Yes, I'm a little put out by the (at least three and counting) reputedly male readers who posted testimony that they wept after reading this issue (one claiming it was for the loss of innocence). Not that I believe they actually did. But I'm still from an early enough American generation to find men claiming to act like overly dramatic little girls just a little bit cringe-making.


No, what I did was confess my reaction to such dramatic displays, and even in doing so was careful not to single anyone out. This is no more an insult than expressing other likes and dislikes. Let's use a silly example: The fact that you might be disgusted by the taste of lemon cake in no way insults me for enjoying it. I confessed to be from a generation that believes where little girls can be expected to carry on in overly dramatic ways in public, grown men shouldn't. I dislike it and always will.

http://fabletown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5902&sid=83d249607a39da430cba45c04452f82d#5902

[fifthfiend]

Boy, if it has Supergirl in it...

Senseless retcon, yes, but it does reconcile with previous history because it gives a reason that history changed. But I didn't really get much enjoyment out of Batman Annual 25, no.

Not a retcon.

...? You refer perhaps to the people trapped in the post-Crisis pocket universe? Still not a retcon.

He called someone a queer? And again, it may be a retcon, it may be senseless, but it does reconcile with previous history. It's totally possible, going back and reading War Games, that Leslie could have killed Spoiler.

So what standard are you using, that any silly Marvel retcon that you're presumably upset about, is presumably worse than any silly DC retcon that you're presumably okay with (and/or don't believe is a retcon)?

[nite-owl]

What hu?

[droogiedroogie2]

From Willingham's own mouth:





http://fabletown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5902&sid=83d249607a39da430cba45c04452f82d#5902To equate that with Willingham calling guys queers is almost as homophobic as what you're accusing him of. Since when does a guy crying like a little girl equal homosexuality? He doesn't specifically suggest homosexuality. He suggests certain gender role restrictions which I am not particularly comfortable with, but I don't see homophobia there.

[droogiedroogie2]

So what standard are you using, that any silly Marvel retcon that you're presumably upset about, is presumably worse than any silly DC retcon that you're presumably okay with (and/or don't believe is a retcon)?The standard I'm using is a case by case analysis. Characters changing because Donna died is not a retcon. And COIE is a perfectly explainable and adequately explained retcon. I don't see the same effort for reconciliation put into Marvel's retcons. Suddenly, they just up and publish Trouble.

[roach]

anything written by Austen

[The Hero]

To equate that with Willingham calling guys queers is almost as homophobic as what you're accusing him of. Since when does a guy crying like a little girl equal homosexuality? He doesn't specifically suggest homosexuality. He suggests certain gender role restrictions which I am not particularly comfortable with, but I don't see homophobia there.
We weren't saying that.We were making fun of the over-macho vibe to what he wrote.Overly-macho men usually accuse other men they think are weak of being gay.

[trustyside-kick]

The Nightwing OYL arc.

[November Rain]

in ultimate spidey, there was that issue after the hobgoblin end fight that was based solely around MJ, i didn't even bother getting to that


saying this, there were a lot of comics around the time of the reboot that were truelly horrific in 616 spidey.

[droogiedroogie2]

We weren't saying that.We were making fun of the over-macho vibe to what he wrote.Overly-macho men usually accuse other men they think are weak of being gay.Understood.