Why is All-Star Superman just owning All-Star Batman

[Ultimate_Superman]

Well issue 3 has just come out and once again I dont see why AS B&RTBW cant just follow the same format. I mean if I were DC I would pull As B&RTBW and redo the whole series and relunch it because A.S.S is just killing it.

[roach]

i didnt know AS.S and AS.BR were in competition. I guess Marvel should pull Ultimate Spiderman since it isnt selling as much as the Ultimates????

[Lackey]

AS Batman is selling more than AS Superman


so I don't think AS Superman is owning AS Batman

[roach]

I actually like AS B&R because I think that is how Batman would treat Dick. In the military you are broken down before you are trained up and Dick as Robin would be a 12-14 year old boy fighting men and watching his back.

[drastic_quench]

As anyone who read comics in the 90's knows, sales don't equal quality. All-Star Superman is a more well-written comic than All-Star Batman - that's why it's "just owning" ASB&RTBW.

[Super_Ludacris]

Quality wise All-star Batman is a huge dissapointment. But of course Batman is gonna outsell the Krypton Klown :)

[Brian Braddock]

As anyone who read comics in the 90's knows, sales don't equal quality. All-Star Superman is a more well-written comic than All-Star Batman - that's why it's "just owning" ASB&RTBW.

Damn, Beat me to it - although you said it better than I could have. :up:

[Lackey]

As anyone who read comics in the 90's knows, sales don't equal quality. All-Star Superman is a more well-written comic than All-Star Batman - that's why it's "just owning" ASB&RTBW.


just a matter of opinion, I happen to think AS Batman is great :)

so again, AS Superman isn't owning AS Batman

[That-Guy]

AS Superman isn't the greatest Superman comic I've read, but I did really like the first 2 issues... AS Batman has been complete crap every step of the way though, IMO... so, I guess I'm on the AS.S ownz AS.B side.

[Brian Braddock]

AS Batman is very pretty to look at but doesnt have the 'substance' that AS Superman has. Instantly forgettable is the best way I can describe it.

[Mogwai]

AS Batman is very pretty to look at but doesnt have the 'substance' that AS Superman has. Instantly forgettable is the best way I can describe it.

"I'm the Goddamn Batman" isn't that forgettable. I like the book and I bet it gets better in the next issue.

[drastic_quench]

"I'm the Goddamn Batman" isn't that forgettable. I like the book and I bet it gets better in the next issue.

True, but there's little substance there. It's just shock. Actually, Miller is somewhat analogous to a radio shock jock. He's got nothing original or thoughtful left to say so he's purposefully trying to be controversial just for the sake of shock value.

[Lackey]

True, but there's little substance there. It's just shock. Actually, Miller is somewhat analogous to a radio shock jock. He's got nothing original or thoughtful left to say so he's purposefully trying to be controversial just for the sake of shock value.


it's only controversial for those who don't like it :)

[Not Jake]

AS Batman is very pretty to look at but doesnt have the 'substance' that AS Superman has. Instantly forgettable is the best way I can describe it.
i would rather have Quitely than Lee

i would rather have Miller illustrate himself, too

[drastic_quench]

I don't particularly think this comic is controversial. I think Miller's visibly trying to be controversial. That's a lot worse.

I like a lot of Miller's work and I was rooting for this book to be good. Unfortunately it's pretty awful on all accounts (with the exception of Lee's art).

[Brian Braddock]

i would rather have Quitely than Lee

i would rather have Miller illustrate himself, too


Quitely's great IMO. His storytelling is excellent, not to mention that he can draw just about any kind of scene a writer would want. You want Action? Quitely can do it. You want intimate character-based moments? Science Fiction? Comedy? Quitely can do it. And do it well.

Some people say his characters faces are ugly - I say they have individual character with mannerisms and facial expressions (unlike some artists, who seem to copy the same face for everyone - Dave Finch springs to mind)

Lee's good, in a hollywood summer blockbuster kind of way, but I dont consider his artwork to be as well-rounded as Quitley's.

[XwolverineX]

I heard over in th' Marvel forums Bought/Though that ASS #3 sucked. :confused::o:down

[The Batman]

so again, AS Superman isn't owning AS Batman

You're right.

It's completely destroying it.

[Brian Braddock]

You're right.

It's completely destroying it.

;) lol

[The Sage]

Why is All-Star Superman owning All-Star Batman?

Grant Morrison is a better writer than Frank Miller. Plus, Miller's lost it.

[BrianWilly]

"I'm the Goddamn Batman" isn't that forgettable. I like the book and I bet it gets better in the next issue.I remember when people were saying that about the first issue of All-Star Batman. "It'll get better! It'll probably get better! Just wait!"http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/jjbemoticons/haha.gif

Actually, the better excuses were the ones that claimed Miller was just pranking us and having a big laugh. Like, you know, people would rather believe that it was all a trick than believe that Miller could ever write something so horrible, so plodding, and so ridiculous.

[The Batman]

You notice that miller claims the crappy comics he writes are satires or parodies?

[Not Jake]

Why is All-Star Superman owning All-Star Batman?

Grant Morrison is a better writer than Frank Miller. Plus, Miller's lost it.
morrison is not better than frank miller:o

[BrianWilly]

Oh he so is.

[XwolverineX]

Why is All-Star Superman owning All-Star Batman?

Grant Morrison is a better writer than Frank Miller. Plus, Miller's lost it.


Yeah? :confused: That IS why it's ownin' ASB? :confused:

[Not Jake]

he has put out better-regarded stuff in recent times but when one compares writers one tends to compare entire bodies of work. Franks Miller's body of work is up with the holy trinity of he, moore, and gaiman. You can put morrison in the holy...square.:confused:

[Lackey]

You're right.

It's completely destroying it.



only in your mind

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The writing. It's the writing. That's why ASBR has blown.

ASS (lol) has had a pretty interesting, very "out there" writing.....where, some crazy things are kinda happening....but they're making sense as being out of continuity.

Whereas, ASBR......not really making much sense to me.

[The Batman]

only in your mind


Not just mine. The majority seems to think that All Star supes kicks ASB's ass six ways to sunday. just the way it is, lackey.

[Lackey]

Not just mine. The majority seems to think that All Star supes kicks ASB's ass six ways to sunday. just the way it is, lackey.


oh, so we're going back to the popularity thing... well, look at my first post in this thread :)

[MaskedManJRK]

Am I the only one who's enjoying both titles equally? :confused:

[Lackey]

Am I the only one who's enjoying both titles equally? :confused:


I like them both. :)

[MaskedManJRK]

I like them both. :)

Yay! I have an All-Star buddy! :D

[The Batman]

oh, so we're going back to the popularity thing... well, look at my first post in this thread :)

and yet most people are still saying All Star Supes is better!

It's like saying that bush is still popular when his approval ratings are low...just because most people voted for him in the election.

[Lackey]

and yet most people are still saying All Star Supes is better!

It's like saying that bush is still popular when his approval ratings are low...just because most people voted for him in the election.


a handful of people on a message board versus thousands of sales


more people are buying AS Batman, it's as simple as that... so you have no argument of popularity. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

[Bullseye]

At this point, three issues into each book.. All Star Superman is the better title out of the two. Miller known for the unexpected so we will have to see what is next.

[Green Lantern]

And many of the people buying it are complaining about the quality. How many of those thousands are people who will keep buying it just because its Batman?

[Bullseye]

Well, I am buying because its Batman. Miller. Lee.

[LibrarianThorne]

Frank Miller's done some great stuff. DKR, Sin City, Daredevil, Year One, all simply phenomenal stuff.

Morrison's done New X-Men, Skrull Kill Krew, JLA, Seven Soldiers, 52, and All-Star Superman. Sure, no one thing that Grant Morrison has done is equal to the Dark Knight Returns, but if you look at the overall body of work, Morrison is more consistently excellent than Frank Miller. Moreover, Quitely and Morrison make for an amazing team (as seen in We3), and the two doing DC's homage to the Silver Age Superman is probably one of the best pairings DC could come up with.

[drastic_quench]

A year ago I never would've believed that I'd have three Superman books on my pull list and two Batman books. Two!?

[Green Lantern]

Frank Miller's done some great stuff. DKR, Sin City, Daredevil, Year One, all simply phenomenal stuff.

Morrison's done New X-Men, Skrull Kill Krew, JLA, Seven Soldiers, 52, and All-Star Superman. Sure, no one thing that Grant Morrison has done is equal to the Dark Knight Returns, but if you look at the overall body of work, Morrison is more consistently excellent than Frank Miller. Moreover, Quitely and Morrison make for an amazing team (as seen in We3), and the two doing DC's homage to the Silver Age Superman is probably one of the best pairings DC could come up with.I disagree that none of Morrison's is as good as DKR... Arkham Asylum Serious House destroys DKR in my opinion.

[Assassin]

Issue #3 was garbage. Pointles, and bull **** art.

And i never thought i would see the day when Lackey agrees with me (another thread) and I agree with him here.

The end of the world is coming!

and thats what i said, thats how batman would talk to robin if he was trying to scare him straight, but dick is a smartass.

[Lackey]

And i never thought i would see the day when Lackey agrees with me (another thread) and I agree with him here.



uh-oh, what are we agreeing about? maybe I should change my mind :(

[KingOfDreams]

It's better. There's your answer.

[MaskedManJRK]

Frank Miller's done some great stuff. DKR, Sin City, Daredevil, Year One, all simply phenomenal stuff.

Morrison's done New X-Men, Skrull Kill Krew, JLA, Seven Soldiers, 52, and All-Star Superman. Sure, no one thing that Grant Morrison has done is equal to the Dark Knight Returns, but if you look at the overall body of work, Morrison is more consistently excellent than Frank Miller. Moreover, Quitely and Morrison make for an amazing team (as seen in We3), and the two doing DC's homage to the Silver Age Superman is probably one of the best pairings DC could come up with.

You should also see Martha Washington Saves the World and 300. Both are great, severely underrated stories from Miller. :up:

[The Sage]

All-Star Superman issue 3 was great. Quitely has some great panels.

[That-Guy]

While issue #3 od All-Star Supes seemed a little... off to me, I still enjoyed it. AS Supes is pretty much a new Pre-Crisis continuity for Superman, complete with all of the goofy aspects of pre-crisis DC, just with a more modern flair. AS Bats, in contrast, doesn't feel like pre- or post-crisis... it's just felt... wrong. Wrong in that this characterization of Batman and Gotham feels as if its written by a 12 year old kid who thinks regular Batman comics suck because "BATMMAN DONT KILL NOBUDDY!!!!111" As for the art, I personally feel Lee is a better artist than Quitely, but Lee's talents in ASB are completely wasted. Frank Miller should just have just drawn the series himself because he obviously thinks that Gotham is Basin City and Batman is Marv. Quitely, in contrast, isn't the best artist out there (at least not tecnhically... a lot of his characters appear distorted and ill-proportioned) but somehow his style fits the light-heartedness of AS.S.

[Pksoze]

he has put out better-regarded stuff in recent times but when one compares writers one tends to compare entire bodies of work. Franks Miller's body of work is up with the holy trinity of he, moore, and gaiman. You can put morrison in the holy...square.:confused:


No it isn't...

Moore has never written anything as bad as Batman/Spawn, All Star, or DKSA.

Miller has never written anything close to Miracleman.

Miller had a great run on Daredevil, did great work with Ronin, had some nice Batman stuff.

But after the 80's he became stuck in a pulpy rut. He could never approach Moore.

As for Gaiman Sandman is still better than anything Miller has ever done.

[Pksoze]

a handful of people on a message board versus thousands of sales


more people are buying AS Batman, it's as simple as that... so you have no argument of popularity. Sorry, that's just the way it is.


All Star Superman is still a top 5 seller.

Put Jim Lee on it and it could approach All Star Bats.

Batman & the Monster Men is not near ASB, but the Monster Men kicks its butt.

[Pksoze]

You should also see Martha Washington Saves the World and 300. Both are great, severely underrated stories from Miller. :up:


I read them, you should read Atlas Shrugged instead from whom Miller shamelessly borrowed.

[The Sage]

All Star Superman is still a top 5 seller.

Put Jim Lee on it and it could approach All Star Bats.

Batman & the Monster Men is not near ASB, but the Monster Men kicks its butt.

Exactly. :up:

Jim Lee is carrying All-Star Bats on his back.

[roach]

yeah you are right.... no one is buying the book because they like it....

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I think both titles suck a big hairy wet one.

I'm still tryin' to figger out where all th' ASS love is comin' from. Title's been nuttin' but weird since it started.

[Assassin]

I think both titles suck a big hairy wet one.

I'm still tryin' to figger out where all th' ASS love is comin' from. Title's been nuttin' but weird since it started.

Thank you, now we must find others like us:O

[Brian Braddock]

I think both titles suck a big hairy wet one.

I'm still tryin' to figger out where all th' ASS love is comin' from. Title's been nuttin' but weird since it started.

Youve just summed up why I like it. In a time where it seems all the comics of today (since the 80's) are mostly dark and adult orientated affairs - it's nice to have an alternative that harks back to a time when comics were a little weird and off the wall......and a little more innocent.

Thats why I also like 'Iinvincible'.

It's all about a bit of fun - as opposed to some title which make you want to slit your wrists after reading they were so bleak.

[LibrarianThorne]

I think both titles suck a big hairy wet one.

I'm still tryin' to figger out where all th' ASS love is comin' from. Title's been nuttin' but weird since it started.

That's sort of the point, the weirdness I mean. It's a throwback to the halcyon days of the Golden and Silver Ages, when Superman adventures involved much more fantastic elements than they do today.

I don't love it because it's weird. I love it because it's epic. We haven't really had this kind of huge, sprawling adventure with Superman in quite some time, so it's refreshing to see it again.

[Assassin]

I love Invincible, and this book aint invincible

[roach]

He's Goddammed frank Miller

[Not Jake]

No it isn't...

Moore has never written anything as bad as Batman/Spawn, All Star, or DKSA.

Miller has never written anything close to Miracleman.

Miller had a great run on Daredevil, did great work with Ronin, had some nice Batman stuff.

But after the 80's he became stuck in a pulpy rut. He could never approach Moore.
I disagree with pretty much all of your points

I haven't gotten around to Sandman or Miracleman yet though so those could be better than Miller's stuff for all I know

still, DKR, Year One, Daredevil (original run, Born Again, Man Without Fear), Sin City, 300...that is an astounding body of work

[Brian Braddock]

I disagree with pretty much all of your points

I haven't gotten around to Sandman or Miracleman yet though so those could be better than Miller's stuff for all I know

still, DKR, Year One, Daredevil (original run, Born Again, Man Without Fear), Sin City, 300...that is an astounding body of work

DKR, Year One, Daredevil etc are all amazing reads but trust me, when you get to read Miracleman.................whoa.

Amazing stuff. :up:

[LibrarianThorne]

I disagree with pretty much all of your points

I haven't gotten around to Sandman or Miracleman yet though so those could be better than Miller's stuff for all I know

still, DKR, Year One, Daredevil (original run, Born Again, Man Without Fear), Sin City, 300...that is an astounding body of work

Moore has the Watchmen, V For Vendetta, From Hell, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Killing Joke, For the Man who has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, Top Ten, Promethea, and Miracleman.

Frank Miller who?

[Brian Braddock]

Moore has the Watchmen, V For Vendetta, From Hell, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Killing Joke, For the Man who has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, Top Ten, Promethea, and Miracleman.

Frank Miller who?


Now, thats an impressive body of work!!!

[roach]

im pretty sure we were just comparing Miller to Morrison

[Not Jake]

yeah, I already said Moore was part of the trinity. I do say however that I don't believe that Moore's works decimate Miller's in some sort of literary fisticuffs

[WOLVERINE25TH]

You people realized DC retconned all th' Silver Age stuff fer a REASON, right? I love retro as much as th' next guy, but Silver Age Supes was ****, an' so is this series.

Mission accomplished, I guess.

[Lackey]

Put Jim Lee on it and it could approach All Star Bats.



that's speculation... I'm talking about facts

[KingOfDreams]

Title's been nuttin' but weird since it started.

in my opinion, weird = good :up:

[KingOfDreams]

I haven't gotten around to Sandman

You must read it. Now.

[Pksoze]

DKR, Year One, Daredevil etc are all amazing reads but trust me, when you get to read Miracleman.................whoa.

Amazing stuff. :up:

I agree

I read all of them Miracleman is better.

And Moore hasn't even come close to Miller's mediocrity lately. Comparing a guy who wrote Batman/Spawn and putting him at Moore's level is something I find vaguely insulting.


So no I don't believe Miller is in the trinity of greatest writers. He's more in the Claremont range as a once great writer.

[Pksoze]

that's speculation... I'm talking about facts


Its reasonable deduction. The book is in the top 5 now, actually I think its in the top 3. Put the worlds hottest artist on it...its not unreasonable it wouldn't sell even better.

[Pksoze]

And I view Morrison as a superior writer to Miller. Morrison can be very weird and confusing. However, he has a very versatile style. He can go from writing Arkham Asylum to the JLA to Doom Patrol.

Morrison can also write good dialogue, Miller's dialogue is heavily influenced by Pulp Novels & Comics & it sounds cheesy in superhero comics.

[That-Guy]

Ironically, I think the best parts of All-Star Superman are the ones that are less fantastical and less charming... the concept of Superman being exposed to a radiation that can slowly kill him yet consistantly makes him more powerful is very interesting and scientifically more realistic than a Superman who is completely invincible except when there's Kryptonite in the room. However, when you pair that concept with a group of HUMANS attempting to LAND on the SUN, or a couple of mythological "heroes" who dupe a DINOSAUR who lives with a SECRET SOCIETY UNDER THE GROUND, it takes the story to a place where at least some readers don't want to see it go. It's kind of like the end of the film Vanilla Sky. If you haven't seen it, don't worry; I won't give away the ending... all I'm going to say is that it comes to a point where there are several directions the story could go, and they pick a route that is very unconventional (which I applaud them for), but is also a direction that feels so far out in left field that I personally wish they would have gone another way. But its all a matter of taste. Personally, I would like to see a gradually dying/strength increasing Superman during OYL, instead of a powerless Clark Kent running around and constantly needing someone to save his keister. If the canon Superman had something interesting like that going on, I probably wouldn't even bother with AS.S, because I'm not all that crazy about Silver Age elements in current comics. But that's just me.

[The Sage]

Youve just summed up why I like it. In a time where it seems all the comics of today (since the 80's) are mostly dark and adult orientated affairs - it's nice to have an alternative that harks back to a time when comics were a little weird and off the wall......and a little more innocent.

Thats why I also like 'Iinvincible'.

It's all about a bit of fun - as opposed to some title which make you want to slit your wrists after reading they were so bleak.

That and...

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2699/page00013panel42by.jpg

Stuff like this. I love this panel.

[The Sage]

You people realized DC retconned all th' Silver Age stuff fer a REASON, right? I love retro as much as th' next guy, but Silver Age Supes was ****, an' so is this series.


So why are they reintroducing the Silver Age stuff such as a pre-crisis like Krypton in Birthright, the costume being made out of Kryptonian blankets and tapestries, Supergirl as Superman's cousin, Krypto the dog, Lex as an evil genius/mastermind/scientist?

[Assassin]

you guys make me sick

[Lackey]

Its reasonable deduction. The book is in the top 5 now, actually I think its in the top 3. Put the worlds hottest artist on it...its not unreasonable it wouldn't sell even better.


you mean induction


but I don't doubt that AS Superman would sell better with Lee on the title, but would it sell better than AS Batman? I say no it wouldn't...and that's where your statement amounts to nothing more than pure speculation.

[The Sage]

you guys make me sick

Your existence makes me sick.

[Assassin]

and the only medicine is more cow bell!

[Green Lantern]

im pretty sure we were just comparing Miller to MorrisonAnd I still say that none of Miller's work compares to Morrison's JLA or Arkham Asylum, but thats only my opinion.

[el sensei]

Quality wise All-star Batman is a huge dissapointment. But of course Batman is gonna outsell the Krypton Klown :)Again fanboys. man if I like a comic and when i check it out it sucks i wouldnt buy it. Fanboys are amazing.:down

[droogiedroogie2]

i didnt know AS.S and AS.BR were in competition. I guess Marvel should pull Ultimate Spiderman since it isnt selling as much as the Ultimates????No, they should pull the entire line.

[Assassin]

^agreed

[Pksoze]

but I don't doubt that AS Superman would sell better with Lee on the title, but would it sell better than AS Batman? I say no it wouldn't...and that's where your statement amounts to nothing more than pure speculation.


Yeah but thats not what I said.

I said it would approach ASB not sell as much or sell more.

[Bullseye]

If the next few All Star titles turn out like the current two, then I have no hope for the All Star line.

[fifthfiend]

Youve just summed up why I like it. In a time where it seems all the comics of today (since the 80's) are mostly dark and adult orientated affairs - it's nice to have an alternative that harks back to a time when comics were a little weird and off the wall......and a little more innocent.

Thats why I also like 'Iinvincible'.

It's all about a bit of fun - as opposed to some title which make you want to slit your wrists after reading they were so bleak.

Didn't Invincible have Superman brutally murder the entire Justice League as a prelude to abandoning his wife and son?

[yenaled]

It wasn't Superman or the Justice League.

[Kitsune]

How about All Start Ambush Bug?

[fifthfiend]

It wasn't Superman or the Justice League.

And hillbillies prefer to be called "sons of the soil."

But it ain't happening.

[yenaled]

It wasn't Superman or the Justice League.

[Eros]

i read both ASB AND ASS, but i dun get half the crap that goes on in either of them at times. Especilaly in ASS, why is this weird crap happening, its like a child is writing the garbage the spews from the book[both of them]. I dun get how anybody can hate "campiness" in superman movies, when ASS has more camp then anything i have seen before. I was born in 1987, not 1967, the only think Morrisons superman book harkins back to is an age where jimmy Olsen cross dressed for fun and superman helped midgets get their jobs back.

[hippie_hunter]

If the next few All Star titles turn out like the current two, then I have no hope for the All Star line.

I don't think that Batgirl, Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern will be that great.

Honestly, DC should just cancel the All-Star line. The entire line up only has 8 issues so far and has already been plagued with far more delays than the Ultimate Marvel line.

Grant Morrison has way too much on his plate with Batman, All-Star Superman, WildC.A.T.s, the Authority, and 52.

Jim Lee has too much on his plate with All-Star Batman and Robin and WildC.A.T.s. And his talent would be much better used on an extremely high profile DC title like Justice League of America.

[Bullseye]

I don't think the three upcoming All Star titles will be good either. I'm willing to give the next titles a chance though.

[SouLeSS]

How about All Start Ambush Bug?

He'll turn out about as good as Ultimate DeadPool.

[bunk]

I thought All Star Superman was doing reasonable as far as the schedule considering who's drawing it, December for the next issue effing blindsided me.

[MaskedManJRK]

I don't think that Batgirl, Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern will be that great.

Honestly, DC should just cancel the All-Star line. The entire line up only has 8 issues so far and has already been plagued with far more delays than the Ultimate Marvel line.

Grant Morrison has way too much on his plate with Batman, All-Star Superman, WildC.A.T.s, the Authority, and 52.

Jim Lee has too much on his plate with All-Star Batman and Robin and WildC.A.T.s. And his talent would be much better used on an extremely high profile DC title like Justice League of America.

But you gotta admit, Frank's probably got the biggest plate. He's got this, Holy Terror, co-directing Sin City 2 and writing/directing The Spirit.

Nothing against Morrison or Lee, but a movie is a lot more complicated than writing/drawing comics.

[Ben Urich]

All-Star Superman is ****ing awesome. Sucks that I had to drop it.
****ing college. :csad:

[hippie_hunter]

But you gotta admit, Frank's probably got the biggest plate. He's got this, Holy Terror, co-directing Sin City 2 and writing/directing The Spirit.

Nothing against Morrison or Lee, but a movie is a lot more complicated than writing/drawing comics.

You're right there.