Jean/Logan: The Evolving Relationship.

[JustABill]

Not a fan of this relationship at all, but I feel you guys who do feel this little relationship needed your own thread because you were in the RoLo Thread ALOT.

[DarknessOfDeath]

WAAAAA :( My hopes of making a thead of my own is broken :( -cries-

[JustABill]

Oops. Sowwy. :(

[DarknessOfDeath]

-sighs- it was gonna be somewhat humorous :(

[JustABill]

Double sowwy???? :p

[DarknessOfDeath]

Apology accepted.

[Asteroid-Man]

they will begin to make out then Logan will pull away and jean will throw logan againts a wall and walk out of the room

[Darkie]

i love the idea of jean/logan relationship!!!

[Iceman]

It's all wrong.

The flirting is fine but I don't want to see these guys take it too far and have no honour.

[The Original Bamfer]

J-Lo... haha...

[Iceman]

J-Lo... haha...

:p
That's even better than ROLO

[Abaddon]

I hate it.Alot.

[ShadowBoxing]

I hate a Jean Logan relationship and I think most fans do to

[JustABill]

Believe me. If this thread was for me, it'd be all about the Jean/Scott!

[ShadowBoxing]

Honestly the whole Jean/Logan thing was a huge retcon done during the early ninties most prominently. During the Phoenix Saga Wolverine may have had a crush on Jean, but there was absolutely no indication that she had feelings for anyone but Scott

[grey_jeanie]

I like it when it's just flirting and sexual tension between Logan and Jean because that's sometimes the best bit of watching evolving relationship. It's alomost like their making out would be the climax and then there's nothing left. I think in the long run it's the deep, meaningfull love that is important to the fans and that should be between Jean and Scott!

[BMM]

Agreed. I think the deepest most important relationship is between Jean and Scott and should remain that way. To do otherwise just seems wrong.

[phoenix_force]

well if it givrs jean more screentime i'm all for it hehehe

[Halcohol]

I don't like how this relationship has evolved in the movies... in the first, it was entertaining how they'd flirt. In the second, though, it was good up until they kissed beneath the X-Jet, at which point I was disappointed they'd let Wolverine's "star role" in the movies overrule Jean's relationship with Scott.

I sincerely hope Jean dies at the end of X3 rather than having her end up with Logan.

[Scorupco]

I don't want Jean to end up with Logan, but I still want the flirting to continue. Threesome forever :D
But I hate the ROLO idea, rather J-Lo than ROLO.

[Halcohol]

J-Lo... lol oh man, it never ends does it :p

Call me traditional, but I don't wanna see Jean with anyone but Scott :)

Even if he's in a pail.

[CapBeerCino]

I sincerely hope Jean dies at the end of X3 rather than having her end up with Logan.

Same here. If scott dies and Jean stays with Logan... This board aint big enough for my ranting in that case...

[DarknessOfDeath]

... :( -sighs- They're just friends who care deeply for each other (besides being attracted to each other) and I think that Logan understands that he and Jean aren't meant for each other... I think he realizes and accepts it when Jean tells him she can't do this... and its not until the end of the film, he knows Scott and Jean are meant to be. Watch the scene in the president's office when Xavier mentions "and there has been casualities and losses on both sides..." Logan glances at Scott. Then in the end, he says "She did make a choice...it was you" near the end. I know he only said that to make Scott feel better and while at the same time Jean's death has affected them both, I think Logan really meant what he said. Hey, he even tried to cheer up Scott.

...

[grey_jeanie]

I sincerely hope Jean dies at the end of X3 rather than having her end up with Logan.

No way!

Cheer up DoD it will all be alright :)

[DarknessOfDeath]

what do u mean, Jeanie??

[Halcohol]

Oh, I know that, DoD. You can still see it from the ShoWest footage when she's basically about to rape 'im and he gets freaked.

Of course, if a dead girl was about to rape me, I'd be freaked too, but you can see he knows he shouldn't.

[grey_jeanie]

what do u mean, Jeanie??

Just from your *sigh*s and '...'s you sounded a bit sad

[DarknessOfDeath]

-scratches his head- Where in my post did i mention that scene from the Showest footage??

[grey_jeanie]

-scratches his head- Where in my post did i mention that scene from the Showest footage??

Yeah, I'm a bit confused now too.

[Halcohol]

Nowhere. But that's pretty much the most we've seen of Jean/Logan in X3 so far.

[DarknessOfDeath]

... well I guess after spending a long period of time at the bottom of the lake, makes you pretty horny... I kinda feel bad for Jean. :( :O

Anyway... I too don't want to see Jean/Logan together if Cykes dies. Cykes has been my all time fave cause he gets the girl. :) But I like these kind of triangles depending how believable it is but I've always been a fan of cykes and since then, I've fallen in love with Jean because she and Scott are meant to be. :D

Heh... In X2... Jean rejects Logan then in X3, Logan rejects Jean. lol

[ILuvCyclops]

I don't really like the relationship, I actually get bored during the films when it pops up.

[LEX]

JEOT people eat JLO for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All meals. Yum, yum. :D

[Halcohol]

Jeot =?

[LEX]

Jean/Scott

:p

[The Batman]

I do not support this relationship whatsoever, because, IMO, i realize that it wouldnt last in the long run.

It just seems, to me, that people like this relationship because they either hate cyclops or mistake lust for love....

In any event, fans'll get their wish. judging from the writers answers at the xverse, this movie will be about logan and jeans relationship instead of scott and jean

[LEX]

^Sadly, yeah. At least put Cyclops with Jean in the ending and I'll be happy.

[Halcohol]

I really think this movie will be spectacular except for a completely corny "re-integrating" of Scott at the end by Phoenix, just to show how strong she is.

I mean, if you're going to kill him, let him stay dead. Nobody comes back after being demolecularized.

[LEX]

And about what I said, I didn't mean killing him and bringing back. Just have Magneto kidnap him, put him in a coma or have me knocked unconscious and join the circus or whatever, but don't kill him. If he does get killed off, I just hope to God that when Jean comes to sense, she doesn't bring back Professor and Cykes in a lame-o way. :o Like how she blinks and then they pop out of nowhere in front of her.

[weatherwitch]

Thank you Bill for this thread. :D

I don't like Logan/Jean (duh) but it's not so much because I favor RoLo (though i do), it's that Jean and Scott are awe-inspiring. Truly. And i am probably the most love cynical gal on the planet, but reading them together, well it's deep. Jean/Logan are not. It's shallow. Show me anywhere that the two of them go beyond the physical and I will show you a surprised expression. I see a degree of love between Jean and Logan certainly and attraction (no surprise there, Logan's attracted to everyone), but Jean and Scott are timeless.

[FieryBalrog]

Thank you Bill for this thread. :D

I don't like Logan/Jean (duh) but it's not so much because I favor RoLo (though i do), it's that Jean and Scott are awe-inspiring. Truly. And i am probably the most love cynical gal on the planet, but reading them together, well it's deep. Jean/Logan are not. It's shallow. Show me anywhere that the two of them go beyond the physical and I will show you a surprised expression. I see a degree of love between Jean and Logan certainly and attraction (no surprise there, Logan's attracted to everyone), but Jean and Scott are timeless.

New X-men 148, its an awesome Jean-Logan comic. They dont get it on physically at all. And the relationship is so beautifully delineated, under the surface of the words. NXM 117 where they talk in the woods.

Phoenix Endsong #3. Some more great J-Lo moments.

Hell, even the first few times they interact. The Christmas issue (UXM 98). The issue where Jean pilots the shuttle back (UXM 100).

I might have been a fan of Scott-Jean, but its wrecked in the comics. I dont want them together again ever after what happened. "Timeless", heh :p. It took a pair of silicone fakes to break up their relationship.

Scott & Emma getting it on at Jean's grave:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ororocity]

Emma u b****
Sorry
I love Jean and Scott together not Jean and Logan. I loathe,hate,deteste,dislike that Idea. I feel sorry for Scott.

[Kira]

I hate it.Alot.

There is nothing more to add.

[grey_jeanie]

As long as the J-LO thing stays as flirting and the inevitable kiss I'm fine, I suppose it mixes things up a bit. In the end it should be Scott and Jean. Period.

[LEX]

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg

Such a pretty photo... *saves as* :p

[Halcohol]

Such a pretty photo of SIN!!! :ghost:

[Kira]

Such a pretty photo of SIN!!! :ghost:

True. :mad: They should just go ahead and have sex on top of Jean's grave.

[Obsidian]

As Wolverine himself said in X2, she chose Scott.

[LEX]

Jean's grave?

Oh...grr - now that you've mentioned it - :mad:

[grey_jeanie]

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg

Such a pretty photo... *saves as* :p

Evil

[Kazaire]

Hey look, I see our resident Angel in the background! :D

[weatherwitch]

New X-men 148, its an awesome Jean-Logan comic. They dont get it on physically at all. And the relationship is so beautifully delineated, under the surface of the words. NXM 117 where they talk in the woods.

Phoenix Endsong #3. Some more great J-Lo moments.

Hell, even the first few times they interact. The Christmas issue (UXM 98). The issue where Jean pilots the shuttle back (UXM 100).

I might have been a fan of Scott-Jean, but its wrecked in the comics. I dont want them together again ever after what happened. "Timeless", heh :p. It took a pair of silicone fakes to break up their relationship.

Scott & Emma getting it on at Jean's grave:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And for every one of those I could name two RoLo moments. It's a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that Jean and Scott are meant to be. She went to him when she was like 12, cloaked in golden flame and all. Jean loves Scott, lusts after Logan. Simple.

[Darkie]

^^i love the pic!!!

[ShadowBoxing]

... :( -sighs- They're just friends who care deeply for each other (besides being attracted to each other) and I think that Logan understands that he and Jean aren't meant for each other... I think he realizes and accepts it when Jean tells him she can't do this... and its not until the end of the film, he knows Scott and Jean are meant to be. Watch the scene in the president's office when Xavier mentions "and there has been casualities and losses on both sides..." Logan glances at Scott. Then in the end, he says "She did make a choice...it was you" near the end. I know he only said that to make Scott feel better and while at the same time Jean's death has affected them both, I think Logan really meant what he said. Hey, he even tried to cheer up Scott.

...Even in the comics he admitted this on several occasions...often referring to them as one person

[FieryBalrog]

And for every one of those I could name two RoLo moments. It's a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that Jean and Scott are meant to be. She went to him when she was like 12, cloaked in golden flame and all. Jean loves Scott, lusts after Logan. Simple.

Its a matter of opinion which couple you prefer, but the relationship is not simple. I dont think you haven't read that much about their relationship, because its not "lust. simple." Its a complicated relationship. See if you can read NXM 148 and you'll see just a glimpse of it.

As for Scott and Jean meant to be, its not happening. For a long, long time. Emma is here to stay. So how is that a viable relationship, even if you like it? :confused:

[ShadowBoxing]

Its a matter of opinion which couple you prefer, but the relationship is not simple. I dont think you haven't read that much about their relationship, because its not "lust. simple." Its a complicated relationship. See if you can read NXM 148 and you'll see just a glimpse of it.

As for Scott and Jean meant to be, its not happening. For a long, long time. Emma is here to stay. So how is that a viable relationship, even if you like it? :confused:Keep in mind though Jean died before Emma and Scott were official...and Jean had to change the timestream so that Scott would accept Emma and reform the X-Men. So really Scott and Jean were meant to be...Jean altered that to save the world.

[LittleMissVixen]

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg


Such a pretty photo... *saves as* :p


That was one of the tackiest moments in X-History....evvvver.


Followed by Astonishing X-Men 13....where Emma is doing sexual role-play dress-up as Jean/Phoenix...again.

[Intheknow101]

Its a matter of opinion which couple you prefer, but the relationship is not simple. I dont think you haven't read that much about their relationship, because its not "lust. simple." Its a complicated relationship. See if you can read NXM 148 and you'll see just a glimpse of it.

As for Scott and Jean meant to be, its not happening. For a long, long time. Emma is here to stay. So how is that a viable relationship, even if you like it? :confused:

There's also Wolverine #75, X-Men #25, issues of operation tolerance, when Logan goes beserk. those are a few on the top of my head that display more than lust, but a deep love between the two that go far deeper than the physical.

[FieryBalrog]

a nice Jean-Logan moment for us all :)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/555/jeanlogan6vg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CapBeerCino]

^ that wouldnt fit in the movieverse.

[weatherwitch]

Its a matter of opinion which couple you prefer, but the relationship is not simple. I dont think you haven't read that much about their relationship, because its not "lust. simple." Its a complicated relationship. See if you can read NXM 148 and you'll see just a glimpse of it.

As for Scott and Jean meant to be, its not happening. For a long, long time. Emma is here to stay. So how is that a viable relationship, even if you like it? :confused:

I've read comics for over 15 years. Yeah, I've read Jean and Logan. And it is indeed a matter of preference. Hell, I preferred Yukio over Mariko too. But that's another story.

All the X relationships have depths and levels of complexity. But the basic, most fundamental nature of Jean and Logan is lust and subconscious desire. But again, a matter of opinion. You prefer Jean and Logan, I don't. That is simple.

[FieryBalrog]

I've read comics for over 15 years. Yeah, I've read Jean and Logan. And it is indeed a matter of preference. Hell, I preferred Yukio over Mariko too. But that's another story.

All the X relationships have depths and levels of complexity. But the basic, most fundamental nature of Jean and Logan is lust and subconscious desire. But again, a matter of opinion. You prefer Jean and Logan, I don't. That is simple.

OK. :) I'll disagree with you about the "most fundamental nature" of their relationship, but whatever.

[freshandclean]

I actually agree with FieryBalrog. Jean and Logan's relationship is not only about lust. I recall the issue where Logan's adamantium gets ripped out of him by Magneto and it's Jean that Logan comes back from near death to save.

Plus, and this is probably a very unpopular opinion, but I feel (especially after Scott and Emma) that if given the chance Logan would be more loyal to Jean than Scott would. I always felt that even though Jean and Scott were very much in love, it just never grew out of the "first love" stage. I don't think Scott particulary understands Jean. He always seems to not understand the more eviceral/powerful/animalistic side of Jean, whereas Logan very much understood it and they were kindred spirits in that respect. I just think, when push comes to shove, Logan would be down for Jean moreso than Scott.

[DarknessOfDeath]

... :D :up:

[Darkie]

a nice Jean-Logan moment for us all :)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/555/jeanlogan6vg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:up:

[Lightning Strykez!]

Regardless of the relationship's complexion in the comics, the movieverse's version is based on strictly lust--nothing more. Heck, in the moviewerse Logan has only known Jean for all of 1 week between the first two films. Yet, his "heart belongs to her." :rolleyes:

[DarknessOfDeath]

his heart belongs to her... in a deep... friendship kind of way. :) two ppl who understand each other... :O

[Abaddon]

Regardless of the relationship's complexion in the comics, the movieverse's version is based on strictly lust--nothing more. Heck, in the moviewerse Logan has only known Jean for all of 1 week between the first two films. Yet, his "heart belongs to her." :rolleyes:


:up: x 1000

[Abaddon]

his heart belongs to her... in a deep... friendship kind of way. :) two ppl who understand each other... :O


and he wants to get his junk in her trunk.:)

[Lightning Strykez!]

his heart belongs to her... in a deep... friendship kind of way. :) two ppl who understand each other... :O


Um, I'd have to say "No" to that. You can only get so deep in a week. :o

[DarknessOfDeath]

and he wants to get his junk in her trunk.:)

so does she...if she ever wanted to have his junk in her trunk. :) :p

but really... I don't think he ever thought of having sex when they first met...i mean..they just met when he was rescued... and in X2, they're just really good friends who are still attracted to each other, regardless of the way they feel for each other... they're good friends. Jean is always there for logan if he wanted to talk...-shrugs- what can i say? they love each other but in a friendship kind of way. nothing wrong with that...

[Darkie]

and he wants to get his junk in her trunk.:)

:eek::eek::eek:

[vanillacyke]

Scott & Emma getting it on at Jean's grave:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Just like to point out that Jean encouraged this behavior with her powers.

[Abaddon]

so does she...if she ever wanted to have his junk in her trunk. :) :p

I think she's considered getting him lovedrunk off her hump.

but really... I don't think he ever thought of having sex when they first met...i mean..they just met when he was rescued...


You need to watch the scene again.

[FieryBalrog]

Just like to point out that Jean encouraged this behavior with her powers.

I would just like to point out that Jean told Scott to "Live". Get over his grief. Not "make-out-on-my-grave! hey, feel free!"

[Kurosawa]

Honestly the whole Jean/Logan thing was a huge retcon done during the early ninties most prominently. During the Phoenix Saga Wolverine may have had a crush on Jean, but there was absolutely no indication that she had feelings for anyone but Scott

That's 100% true. She never had feelings for him in the original stories. that's a retcon and a disgusting one. It's led to the complete, revolting blasphemous farce that is X3 and is partially responsable for Cyclops certain death in that idiotic piece of **** movie.

Stuff like that is why I will always ****ing hate Wolverine.

[FieryBalrog]

I actually agree with FieryBalrog. Jean and Logan's relationship is not only about lust. I recall the issue where Logan's adamantium gets ripped out of him by Magneto and it's Jean that Logan comes back from near death to save.

Plus, and this is probably a very unpopular opinion, but I feel (especially after Scott and Emma) that if given the chance Logan would be more loyal to Jean than Scott would. I always felt that even though Jean and Scott were very much in love, it just never grew out of the "first love" stage. I don't think Scott particulary understands Jean. He always seems to not understand the more eviceral/powerful/animalistic side of Jean, whereas Logan very much understood it and they were kindred spirits in that respect. I just think, when push comes to shove, Logan would be down for Jean moreso than Scott.

Thank you for putting it out so clearly. :up: :)

[Darkie]

Jean has attraction of him (wolvie) or maybe not?

[Kurosawa]

New X-men 148, its an awesome Jean-Logan comic. They dont get it on physically at all. And the relationship is so beautifully delineated, under the surface of the words. NXM 117 where they talk in the woods.

Phoenix Endsong #3. Some more great J-Lo moments.

Hell, even the first few times they interact. The Christmas issue (UXM 98). The issue where Jean pilots the shuttle back (UXM 100).

I might have been a fan of Scott-Jean, but its wrecked in the comics. I dont want them together again ever after what happened. "Timeless", heh :p. It took a pair of silicone fakes to break up their relationship.

Scott & Emma getting it on at Jean's grave:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/925/scottemma8yr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Anybody who understands the first thing about Cyclops knows that that scene and indeed the whole Emma relationship is COMPLETELY out of character for Scott and is 110% bull****.

[DarknessOfDeath]

I think she's considered getting him lovedrunk off her hump.




You need to watch the scene again.

Dude...I've seen that scene like 20 times. -sighs- its my fave... i mean come on...she tickled him. ;) hehe. oi... atleast he was gentle when he touched her hand..that time. :p i think the scene was a start of their "friendship" ... Damn that tickles... hehe. er... -sighs- I can't explain how I feel about the whole scene. Its cute and sad... :( That was my fave Jean/Logan moment. "U wanna be my best friend, Jean?" "Sure, Logan. Friends forever" errr not...:p hence X3.

[Abaddon]

I would just like to point out that Jean told Scott to "Live". Get over his grief. Not "make-out-on-my-grave! hey, feel free!"

He's referring to Jeans return post-Planet X.

[Abaddon]

Dude...I've seen that scene like 20 times. -sighs- its my fave... i mean come on...she tickled him. ;) hehe. oi... atleast he was gentle when he touched her hand..that time. :p i think the scene was a start of their "friendship" ... Damn that tickles... hehe. er... -sighs- I can't explain how I feel about the whole scene. Its cute and sad... :( That was my fave Jean/Logan moment. "U wanna be my best friend, Jean?" "Sure, Logan. Friends forever" errr not...:p hence X3.


Guys don't flirt that much with women,unless we want something.Something that rhymes with wussy.

[DarknessOfDeath]

-pouts- If anyone is interested in a website related to Jean/Logan... PM Me... Im also thinking of doing a Jean/Scott one too...

[FieryBalrog]

He's referring to Jeans return post-Planet X.

The only time she returns post Planet X is Endsong, and that happens before Endsong.

Unless you mean HCT, which is what my "Live" comment addresses.

Its meaningless to say anyone forced Cyke and Emma to tongue each other in a graveyard.

[FieryBalrog]

Anybody who understands the first thing about Cyclops knows that that scene and indeed the whole Emma relationship is COMPLETELY out of character for Scott and is 110% bull****.

Well I'd agree, but that's whats happening in comics right now and its pretty much here to stay by every indication. So Jean-Scott is wrecked, and Cyclops has become a bit pathetic.

The guy has never been very good with his romantic relationships, but this is a line I dont think he would cross. Regardless unless some major retconnage happens I hope its over between J and S.

[Abaddon]

Jean gave a psychic push to prevent the HCT reality

[Abaddon]

Well I'd agree, but that's whats happening in comics right now and its pretty much here to stay by every indication. So Jean-Scott is wrecked, and Cyclops has become a bit pathetic.


Well he did abandon Madelyne Pryor after Jean came back the first time.

[cookiva]

Anybody who understands the first thing about Cyclops knows that that scene and indeed the whole Emma relationship is COMPLETELY out of character for Scott and is 110% bull****.


Even I agree with this. Scott and Emma is scary...

[FieryBalrog]

Jean gave a psychic push to prevent the HCT reality
back to square one:

Originally Posted by FieryBalrog
I would just like to point out that Jean told Scott to "Live". Get over his grief. Not "make-out-on-my-grave! hey, feel free!"

And btw, the pic I posted is the second time. First is at the end of 154. This is a different time, as evidenced by the quotes. There's really no excuse.

[Abaddon]

Her telling him to live really isnt enough

[FieryBalrog]

Her telling him to live really isnt enough

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6066/livescott2fq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

There ya go. Thats all she does to repair HCT, the hole in Scott's heart.

And right, because unless Scott deepthroated Emma at Jean's grave, HCT would come to pass... :rolleyes:

[Abaddon]

well I was never so much talking about the incident itself.And I still believe there is something else at work in the relationship anyway.

[Bishop2]

Not a fan of this relationship at all, but I feel you guys who do feel this little relationship needed your own thread because you were in the RoLo Thread ALOT.

I agree that this is not a relationship I'm interested in at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I HATE how much Singer's pushed this on us in the first two films. It's always been about Scott/Jean. Everyone who's not Singer pretty much knows that.

[FieryBalrog]

I agree that this is not a relationship I'm interested in at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I HATE how much Singer's pushed this on us in the first two films. It's always been about Scott/Jean. Everyone who's not Singer pretty much knows that.

Everyone except Singer, Scott and Emma apparently.

[Loganbabe]

It just seems, to me, that people like this relationship because they either hate cyclops or mistake lust for love....

And many dislike the possibilty of a Jean/Logan relationship because they hate Wolverine and mistake his love for lust, like he´s only a sex crazed animal. I don´t care if the love he felt for Jean was only a platonic kind a love, he still loved her, deeply - ah, and I´m talking about the comics here, people. Maybe their relationship would never work out in the "real world", but so what? It´s still romantic and emotional, and Grant Morrison showed it quite well on his Planet X arc. Inside Asteroid M we could feel the love and understanding between Jean and Logan, much more than any other Scott and Emma scene.
But like I said, I really don´t care if Jean and Scott are destined to be the eternal couple in the minds of the strangely conservative X-Men fans, even if Scott is with Emma now. Just don´t say that Logan never loved Jean, only lusted after her, and that she never loved him back, even if in a platonic and fraternal kind of way. Now THAT would be a big retcon.

[Abaddon]

I think most of us are referring to the movie.

[Bishop2]

Everyone except Singer, Scott and Emma apparently.

You know what? I actually don't mind Scott/Emma, because I'm so sick of the on-again/off-again nature of the Scott/Jean relationship that it doesn't bother me if they finally move the hell on. But Logan/Jean has always made Logan look totally pathetic. Always trying to steal away another guy's wife, always pining for someone who's clearly taken because she looks like some chick he used to like before she was dead. Get over it, Howlett.

Of course, Scott/Emma didn't exist when Singer was making the movies and treating Scott like the ultimate ***** of the universe, so it's a moot point.

[Celestial]

We can see Jean evolving through the two movies. She's becoming more aware of her power and shows a wish to use it, and yet Scott (and Prof X) are trying to hold her back. They mean well, but it's like parents trying to protect a child who's eager to explore the world for herself. ("I'll take care of you") When Logan arrives, he challenges her. He suggests that Scott is holding her back. He shows belief in her and her ability to control her powers - something that appears to be lacking with Scott. So Scott represents a safe, controlled haven whereas Logan represents a new, dangerous and exhilarating future. It's not love vs lust so much as responsibility vs freedom.

[FieryBalrog]

You know what? I actually don't mind Scott/Emma, because I'm so sick of the on-again/off-again nature of the Scott/Jean relationship that it doesn't bother me if they finally move the hell on. But Logan/Jean has always made Logan look totally pathetic. Always trying to steal away another guy's wife, always pining for someone who's clearly taken because she looks like some chick he used to like before she was dead. Get over it, Howlett.

Of course, Scott/Emma didn't exist when Singer was making the movies and treating Scott like the ultimate ***** of the universe, so it's a moot point.

I have the opposite viewpoint. I think Scott/Emma had/to some extent has Scott as Emma's lapdog, and I dont get that pathetic feeling from Logan's love for Jean at all. Not to mention the whole process by which Cyke and Emma became an item made Scott out to be pretty sad.

One of the reasons I like Whedon is because Scott actually has a bit of backbone when written by him.

[Kurosawa]

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6066/livescott2fq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

There ya go. Thats all she does to repair HCT, the hole in Scott's heart.

And right, because unless Scott deepthroated Emma at Jean's grave, HCT would come to pass... :rolleyes:

Even if Jean tells Scott to "live", he would not respond to that by shacking up with a whore like Emma Frost.

No Jean=Scott living a quiet life of celibacy in her honor and due to his mourning. That's Cyclops written in character.

[JustABill]

Being celibate and mourning is not living, when she meant, live, she meant move on. Sure I don't think she intended for him to hook up with pretty much the opposite of her, but funny **** like that happens in life.

[FieryBalrog]

Being celibate and mourning is not living, when she meant, live, she meant move on. Sure I don't think she intended for him to hook up with pretty much the opposite of her, but funny **** like that happens in life.

true, she knew that Scott moving on meant moving on with Emma. Thats why she hesitates before doing it (Quentin says I'd just let it die).

[undomiel]

I have to say, I absolutely LOVE this relationship! I am so surprised that more people do not see it so. And I must say I definitely do not think that Logan and Jean have only lust and not love for each other.

Here's what I think: Jean is totally in love with this great guy named Scott. He asks her to marry him, and she happily says yes. But then this dark, dangerous, mysterious guy named Logan shows up and mocks her fiance and teases her and somehow manages to sweep Jean off her feet. He makes her feel things she's never felt before -- it's almost as if she never really knew what being in love was until this. But, alas -- it's too late! Jean is already committed, already engaged to Scott the Wonderful, and she is too honorable and too afraid and too proud to break it off, especially for this roguish wanderer. But inside, much to her own dismay, she's deeply drawn to him. They are both very passionate people, though Jean is in the habit of repressing this passion, whereas Logan makes no effort to hide his feelings (and Kudos! to Logan for having the guts to risk Jean's rejection by making his intentions so plain).

So I like it, because it sets up a great dynamic. It's more than just a love triangle plot device or a simple lust thing, because real love and real loss are involved. And I haven't even begun to speak of Logan's feelings for Jean -- he undoubtedly loves her, very deeply. And if he loves her partly because she reminds him of a long-lost love, so much the better -- I think that's touching. It shows more of tough Logan's tender side.

[Deep Thinkin'!]

I have to say, I absolutely LOVE this relationship! I am so surprised that more people do not see it so. And I must say I definitely do not think that Logan and Jean have only lust and not love for each other.

Here's what I think: Jean is totally in love with this great guy named Scott. He asks her to marry him, and she happily says yes. But then this dark, dangerous, mysterious guy named Logan shows up and mocks her fiance and teases her and somehow manages to sweep Jean off her feet. He makes her feel things she's never felt before -- it's almost as if she never really knew what being in love was until this. But, alas -- it's too late! Jean is already committed, already engaged to Scott the Wonderful, and she is too honorable and too afraid and too proud to break it off, especially for this roguish wanderer. But inside, much to her own dismay, she's deeply drawn to him. They are both very passionate people, though Jean is in the habit of repressing this passion, whereas Logan makes no effort to hide his feelings (and Kudos! to Logan for having the guts to risk Jean's rejection by making his intentions so plain).

So I like it, because it sets up a great dynamic. It's more than just a love triangle plot device or a simple lust thing, because real love and real loss are involved. And I haven't even begun to speak of Logan's feelings for Jean -- he undoubtedly loves her, very deeply. And if he loves her partly because she reminds him of a long-lost love, so much the better -- I think that's touching. It shows more of tough Logan's tender side.

I totally agree with you. Jean has Scott, and she is smart enough to not break it up. But I totally love the Jean/Logan relationship, even though in the comics they've never really had a relationship to be proud of because of Jean and Scott being together. I completely respect their relationship, but I just think the JeLo relationship is awesome, cause well....... Logan/Wolverine is basically my fav charater, and Jean is a close up second place, so...... but of course I don't want to disrespect the Scott/Jean or RoLo fans, cause I bet this puts salt into deep wounds for them, or for some of them at least. I love all relationships, all have their advantages and disadvantages.

[Endeavor]

Wolverine needs to be castrated and be forced to swallow his own stink-bags.
It's a pitty he'd regrow them again, the bastard. :mad:

[Redd_Angel]

lol!!! why is everyone against logan and jean? sure, jean might be meant for scott, but logan will always be for jean. and since scott is now with emma :mad:, i'm all the more for logan and jean. :up: :)

and i agree that logan doesn't only have lust for jean- i think they have genuine friendship now, and he respects jean a lot too!

[Mary]

I don't like Jean/Logan relationship at all. But i have nothing against it.

[Endeavor]

Simple. It's a forced relationship that's been further developed because Wolverine is popular. The stinky runt had no business going after her when she was a taken woman and if written right (which at first it was) Jean would have only tolerated him until he got on her nerve and awakened her fiery nature (which he did pretty soon after having met). But alas, the mindless masses follow the angry smelly runt and since he lusts for the redhead the powers-that-be have to manipulate things so that he gets his way.
The sad thing is that if they continue to make changes to appease the Wolvie fans they will end up screwing up the character. Hell they've already changed him considerably (in the comics AND the movies). Now he's a tall leading man... BARF

[RagingTempest]

I don't like Logan with Jean either!!! She and Scott are the All American mutant couple, they're meant for each other. Logan will never end up with Jean, she just keeps shooting him down!!!:o

[Eros]

Jean will give in eventually wolverine is the best at what he does afterall.

[Deep Thinkin'!]

yeah, all of us Jean/Logan fans know that the relationship isn't gonna happen, but we like to dream you know. Most of us (like myself) don't want to intrude on the Jean/Scott deal. We just like the idea of Logan/Jean. No need for all of you to be all fussy about it. Besides, you're bringing down the Wolvie fans. :p

[DarknessOfDeath]

back at home. deep_thinking had a thread like this and it should be merged with this one. I posted my opinions before on this topic and I don't want to do it all over again. so if LS is around, can u please merge the two? Thanx. If I feel like it, I'll post more of my thoughts about Jean and Logan's deep bond/relationship.

[Mary]

yeah, all of us Jean/Logan fans know that the relationship isn't gonna happen, but we like to dream you know. Most of us (like myself) don't want to intrude on the Jean/Scott deal. We just like the idea of Logan/Jean. No need for all of you to be all fussy about it. Besides, you're bringing down the Wolvie fans. :pHa! And you like Ororo/Logan as well hehe Cool

[Eros]

Thats the thing about Logan, he can have any X-woman he wants. He can also manage them all with one claw tied behind his muscualar back.

[Deep Thinkin'!]

Thats the thing about Logan, he can have any X-woman he wants. He can also manage them all with one claw tied behind his muscualar back.

totally.

Ha! And you like Ororo/Logan as well hehe Cool

and yep! I can't decide which one I like best! lol.

[Endeavor]

Jean will give in eventually wolverine is the best at what he does afterall.

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/puke2.gif

[Deep Thinkin'!]

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/puke2.gif

ha ha. Nice..... **coughnotcough** lol. It's basic logic that the two won't end up together in the movies. That would totally make the movie take a dive bomb. But some of us like the combination and to dream. lol

[eXperiment]

Thats just plain awesome.

[FieryBalrog]

I have to say, I absolutely LOVE this relationship! I am so surprised that more people do not see it so. And I must say I definitely do not think that Logan and Jean have only lust and not love for each other.

Here's what I think: Jean is totally in love with this great guy named Scott. He asks her to marry him, and she happily says yes. But then this dark, dangerous, mysterious guy named Logan shows up and mocks her fiance and teases her and somehow manages to sweep Jean off her feet. He makes her feel things she's never felt before -- it's almost as if she never really knew what being in love was until this. But, alas -- it's too late! Jean is already committed, already engaged to Scott the Wonderful, and she is too honorable and too afraid and too proud to break it off, especially for this roguish wanderer. But inside, much to her own dismay, she's deeply drawn to him. They are both very passionate people, though Jean is in the habit of repressing this passion, whereas Logan makes no effort to hide his feelings (and Kudos! to Logan for having the guts to risk Jean's rejection by making his intentions so plain).

So I like it, because it sets up a great dynamic. It's more than just a love triangle plot device or a simple lust thing, because real love and real loss are involved. And I haven't even begun to speak of Logan's feelings for Jean -- he undoubtedly loves her, very deeply. And if he loves her partly because she reminds him of a long-lost love, so much the better -- I think that's touching. It shows more of tough Logan's tender side.

I approve of your post :D Welcome to the dark side.

[Loganbabe]

But alas, the mindless masses follow the angry smelly runt and since he lusts for the redhead the powers-that-be have to manipulate things so that he gets his way

Mindless masses? So basically you´re calling all Wolverine fans stupid...yeah, what a nice thing to say! :mad:
Please, try to discuss the subject not insulting the fans here! Why do you come to this thread, anyway? :o

[Redd_Angel]

It's more than just a love triangle plot device or a simple lust thing, because real love and real loss are involved. And I haven't even begun to speak of Logan's feelings for Jean -- he undoubtedly loves her, very deeply.

:up: I couldn't have said it any better.

there's no question that logan loves (not lusts for) jean. and he knows that although jean truly loves scott, she still has some feelings for logan, and she just doesn't want to give in to it. the way i see it, if logan's really such a horrible person who just wants to get in the way of jean and scott's relationship, he would have really acted on his "lust" a long time ago (more than just steal a kiss). but he respects jean, and i think that shows logan's feelings towards jean is so much more than just the physical kind. :)

i could go on forever, but i must stop now.

[FieryBalrog]

Yes, its definitely true that Logan really does love Jean. Not only has it been confirmed on panel, he dreams about her (check out Wolverine #12, its a great comic, very well written) and he's the only one who loves her enough to kill her.

[Loganbabe]

Logan respected Jean a lot, and that´s love. Not lust. If you only lust after a person you don´t care about his/her feelings at all, you´re only interested in yourself, your own needs. I hate when people talk about Logan as if he´s a horny dog who only thinks about satisfying his sex-oriented mind. Logan is a guy full of feelings, he can be tender, honorable and loving, just like he was to Mariko. I´m sure that if he had the chance to be with Jean he would be exactly the same way. He would love her forever.

[Endeavor]

Mindless masses? So basically you´re calling all Wolverine fans stupid...yeah, what a nice thing to say! :mad:
Please, try to discuss the subject not insulting the fans here! Why do you come to this thread, anyway? :o
Nope. Mindless massess are those who "like" Wolverine because of the violence and cockyness he represents instead of really knowing the character and loving what used to make him unique. I used to be a Wolverine fan myself, until he became the equivalent of DCs Batman and was suddenly jammed down everybody's throat whether it made sense or not. I don't like a character because a corporate suit desides they will market him to insane levels, overusing and changing said character to what is considered "in" or "hip". But some people do fall for those tactics and those are the ones I call "mindless masses".

[genufine]

Simple. It's a forced relationship that's been further developed because Wolverine is popular.

Thats 100% right. Its forced, because of his popularity, NOTHING else. Scott and Jean are The Couple.

Jean will give in eventually wolverine is the best at what he does afterall.

Kindergarten/Junior High school strategies (or hopes), never succeed. Get over it.

Thats the thing about Logan, he can have any X-woman he wants. He can also manage them all with one claw tied behind his muscualar back.

I'm sorry, but Jean, Emma and Psylocke are probably the three hottest mutants (oh all of them went for scott at one point or another)

[FieryBalrog]

Logan/Scott rivalry is hilarious. Have you read Astonishing X-men 14?

[Lazmarquez]

I cannot believe that people are still insisting that one side dominates the other. How about this one? Maybe both ends of the spectrum are right! We as human beings are multi-faceted, just as these characters have been crafted to be. Yes, Jean and Scott are great, they represent a great iconic, stable couple.. BUT that doesnt change the fact that Wolverine and Jean also have a fantastic connection.. They are able to co-exist.. The films are different people. The films prefer one side, most obviously (without truly making a decision out of it).. So everyone should seriously cool down about it. Wolverine is popular, we all know that, but one should keep an open mind still.. I never liked Wolverine, Im not into the violence and Machismo attitude. But I will say that this relationship has made something about him likeable, it gives him a soul. It's multi-faceted and flawed for these characters to love one another and its what makes it so great.. On film and off..

[undomiel]

Thanks, by the way, to the person who started this thread. Seeing as how you aren't even a Jean/Logan fan, it was especially generous. First, a disclaimer: I mean no disrespect to Jean/Scott fans. I usually am all for the long-term love-eternal kind of relationships, but I've never read the comics, so I'm sure that makes a huge difference, because I know very little about Scott and the development of his relationship with Jean. However, that said, I expect Scott to die or at least disappear in X3, so I don't think anything that happens between Logan and Jean will intentionally violate their engagement status.

Good girls always fall for bad boys -- that's just kind of the way it goes, and Jean is no exception. Problem is, it doesn't usually work out, and I don't think Jean and Logan will end happily-ever-after. It will be a tragic love story (as many of the greatest are), which I think is going to be very intense, which is part of the reason why I like it.

Jean, up to this point in the films, has always been in denial of her feelings toward Logan. (Incidentally, that's how I'm interpreting the X3 kiss -- Jean's mental barriers and self-control have finally been broken down by the Phoenix force -- and everything inside comes flooding out, including her strongly suppressed passion for the Wolverine.)

And for Logan, Jean has long been the Unattainable thing. If there's one thing I love about Logan, it's his lowliness. He is a tragic hero. He has suffered again and again, but deep down he has retained his heroic qualities, his honor and his courage. Jean sees this -- it's precisely why she has such strong feelings for him and not just lust. But would the princess ever look twice at the peasant boy? Would the hand of the maiden ever caress the head of a mangy dog? Could Beauty love a beast? Never! But then...it happens. Logan will be elated, finally tasting the sweetness of Jean's returned affection -- something he yearned for, but had abandoned all hope of ever knowing.

And then, just a moment after the miracle, it all comes crashing down. Jean, deaf to Logan's desperate pleas, turns completely evil, and abandons Logan and the X-men for good. This is where it gets really good. Because Logan will now have nothing to hope to gain from loving Jean, but I'm guessing that love her he will -- until death parts them. And I think this will be a story that includes Logan, the hero, seeking the redemption of one who is totally and utterly lost to goodness, even to the point of being prepared to surrender his own life to bring her back. Does this story line sound familiar to anyone out there? A cyber-star to anyone who can name that theme!

[FieryBalrog]

I have read the comics, including most of Jean/Scott's greatest and worst moments, and I still prefer Jean/Logan.

[Redd_Angel]

I have read the comics, including most of Jean/Scott's greatest and worst moments, and I still prefer Jean/Logan.

thank you! :up:

[Deep Thinkin'!]

thank you! :up:

**sighs**

ok, i'm taking a count of how many different people like the relationship.... so far i have about 4..... i think.... lol, i duno

[undomiel]

I have read the comics, including most of Jean/Scott's greatest and worst moments, and I still prefer Jean/Logan.

You rock! I've never read the comics, so I feel obligated to give the benefit of the doubt, but it's hard for me to imagine preferring Scott over the Wolverine, especially in a relationship with Jean.

[Endeavor]

Yes of course, pair Jean and Logan up. They'll last what? 12 comics issues? What with Wolverine splitting his time up in 14 different titles you know he'll be hooking up with the likes of Yuriko, Silver Fox (you know she's not dead), Tiger Lilly, Elektra and any ol' tramp he can find. Then Jean can go ballistic and fry his worthless ass... with the added bonus that a lot more people will come to dislike the smelly runt. So yeah, let's do it! :up:

[The Batman]

Endeavor got it.

It'd be funny to watch these two gewt together, if only to see how fast the fans wouyld turn on this relationship. Marvel's smart enough to know that hooking them up is jumping the shark...

[DarknessOfDeath]

I don't see them hooking up in the end of x3. Why? Cause Scott will show his up and prove his love for Jean and in the end, she'll come back to her senses and realize what she has done. She'll see Scott... then she'll turn her back on the brotherhood and save her friends.

[Angry Sentinel]

LOL... when I first read the thread title, I thought it said "Revolving' Relationship....

Eeeww Jeany and Wovie are swingers!


Seriously, Let's just take all the good literature that writer's are stuggling to inject new ideas and put those ideas in movie adaptations. Once those concepts have a mass fandom following 'adapting' the source material will be no problem at all. I say we start with the Bible... Oops Davinci beat us to it!

[The Batman]

Only after the jean/logan part of the flick is so heavily focused on, we dont care about scott and jean

[DarknessOfDeath]

I predict this thread is gonna turn ugly... at some point...no matter how hard I try...-backs away from the thread-

[The Batman]

It dosent matter. No matter how much debate will happen, the fact is, is that its generally excepted that Scott and Jean are basically soulmates and that jean and logan are nothing more than close friends with a deep bond, or unrequited love. They tease it because it creates tension. I doubt they'll ever fully have a relationhsip, simply because the tension would be gone.

[DarknessOfDeath]

It dosent matter. No matter how much debate will happen, the fact is, is that its generally excepted that Scott and Jean are basically soulmates and that jean and logan are nothing more than close friends with a deep bond, or unrequited love. They tease it because it creates tension. I doubt they'll ever fully have a relationhsip, simply because the tension would be gone.

That I agree 100% and I've said it a lot in my other posts. Enough said.

[Redd_Angel]

It dosent matter. No matter how much debate will happen, the fact is, is that its generally excepted that Scott and Jean are basically soulmates and that jean and logan are nothing more than close friends with a deep bond, or unrequited love. They tease it because it creates tension. I doubt they'll ever fully have a relationhsip, simply because the tension would be gone.

:up:
but i also think that no matter who logan has had or will have a relationship with, he'll always care for jean the most- which makes it brilliant! because jean's actually the one person he most cares about but will never have coz jean's with scott. :o

but don't get me wrong, i still prefer logan over scott, but i like the tension that jean and logan have right now (even if i understand that their relationship won't go any further) :O

[Endeavor]

I like it. I want the smelly runt to suffer! :p

[grey_jeanie]

That I agree 100% and I've said it a lot in my other posts. Enough said.

That's always going to be true whether the movie confirms it or not. It only one depiction of the story. Nomatter what happens Jean and cott with be souldmates (from the comics and cartoons) so it really doesn't matter that much.

It would just be nice to have it confirmed on screen and convince me that the producers of the movies aren't unsentimental idiots.

[Deep Thinkin'!]

besides, they only made the Logan/Jean relationship (or what little of it) to add drama to the x movies. It'd be a little bit boring without it. You know, watching a perfect jean/scott relationship while Logan is happy for them? You know? It's not really like him to just leave things as it is. They just made them flirt in the movies cause Logan has been known to mess with the rules and be a badass. lol

[Endeavor]

besides, they only made the Logan/Jean relationship (or what little of it) to add drama to the x movies. It'd be a little bit boring without it. You know, watching a perfect jean/scott relationship while Logan is happy for them? You know? It's not really like him to just leave things as it is. They just made them flirt in the movies cause Logan has been known to mess with the rules and be a badass. lol

It would have been a LOT more interesting if they actually made it a two sided scenario, youw know where people can actually say 'hey Scott and Jean have this real deep thing going too". But no, thats not there. We've just been told they have a deep meaningful relationship and attraction for each other, but haven't seen evidence of it. Of course if people actually got to connect with Scott's side of the equation then there'd be more that would see Logan as the actual "dick" and we can't have anybody thinking badly of our "badass" hero, now can we? bleh

[Deep Thinkin'!]

It would have been a LOT more interesting if they actually made it a two sided scenario, youw know where people can actually say 'hey Scott and Jean have this real deep thing going too". But no, thats not there. We've just been told they have a deep meaningful relationship and attraction for each other, but haven't seen evidence of it. Of course if people actually got to connect with Scott's side of the equation then there'd be more that would see Logan as the actual "dick" and we can't have anybody thinking badly of our "badass" hero, now can we? bleh

Yes. That would have really spiced things up a bit to REALLY see Scott/Jean really act a little more romantic and get Scott's side. But yeah, since Logan is supposed to be the main charater, they make him look acceptable. **shrugs** But yet, him being a somewhat badass is what makes me a Logan fan.

[Redd_Angel]

oooh - "Jean and Logan" music in the soundtrack. uhhm... tearjerker perhaps? :p

[Mike059jig]

Wolveine is in love with jean but those feeling are unrequited..Jean cares for him...she loves cyclops and only cyclops...Jean/logan will never happen..this relationship in the movies is just blown out of proportion..My first post

[Redd_Angel]

welcome mike!!! :D

yeah, i agree that jean/logan relationship won't really get that far.

i think that the way the jean/logan relationship is portrayed in the movies is quite accurate - sure there's flirting going on between them, sure they kiss - but those things happened in the comics as well. i don't really think that cyclops or cyclops fans should feel betrayed or threatened at all coz although jean loves logan, it's a different kind of love, and it's still jean and scott, scott and jean in the end. :)

lol. i can't stop talking about this!!

[Mike059jig]

welcome mike!!! :D

yeah, i agree that jean/logan relationship won't really get that far.

i think that the way the jean/logan relationship is portrayed in the movies is quite accurate - sure there's flirting going on between them, sure they kiss - but those things happened in the comics as well. i don't really think that cyclops or cyclops fans should feel betrayed or threatened at all coz although jean loves logan, it's a different kind of love, and it's still jean and scott, scott and jean in the end. :)

lol. i can't stop talking about this!!
hey..wuzup...thats fine but the relationship is just one sided tell me scenes where you see jean cyke romatic in the movies...Jean loves logan thats funny..I just want thoughts and proof of that other that just fan speculation...in the movies i thinks its lust.in the comics jean never hinted she loves wovlerine she was just attracted to him..if you can find thought bubble that jean says i want logan show me...jean thinking of wolverine bubbles can be found in X2 novel by claremont who made wolverin and jean character.....and is responsible for the triangle....This is good for marvel anyway fanboys love whats goin on in the movie between jean and logan..$$$$

[undomiel]

I simply love the Wolverine. The fact that so many people hate him makes me love him all the more. I love an underdog! Would say soooo much more, but don't have time -- it'll have to wait till later.

[Endeavor]

i don't really think that cyclops or cyclops fans should feel betrayed or threatened at all coz although jean loves logan, it's a different kind of love, and it's still jean and scott, scott and jean in the end. :)


I disagree. Like I mentioned before, Cyclops' part of the love triangle isn't given equal representation, so in the viewers eyes (especially those unfamiliar with the comics history) Scott is at a disadvantage. On top of that this isn't just any random time in the Scott-Jean-Logan debacle, this is the reinterpretation of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Sagas. Wolverine should NOT be the pivotal person in this story, at least not where Jean is concerned, and from the looks of what we've see so far he is. So i think Cyclops fans have every reason to feel betrayed, cheated, threatened, angry, you name it... and rightly so. In fact, I think it should be more than just Cyclops fans who are outraged, it should be all X-Men and comics fans that would like to see things done right and realize that marketing one character should not be the focus of a good story.

[WorthyStevens]

welcome mike!!! :D

yeah, i agree that jean/logan relationship won't really get that far.

i think that the way the jean/logan relationship is portrayed in the movies is quite accurate - sure there's flirting going on between them, sure they kiss - but those things happened in the comics as well. i don't really think that cyclops or cyclops fans should feel betrayed or threatened at all coz although jean loves logan, it's a different kind of love, and it's still jean and scott, scott and jean in the end. :)

lol. i can't stop talking about this!!

Jean should have no 'love' for Logan in the first place though. It's more along the lines of lust.

[FieryBalrog]

Jean should have no 'love' for Logan in the first place though. It's more along the lines of lust.

Thats typical but wrong. See scan posted few posts down; see also NXM 148, Phoenix Endsong #3, etc.

[Endeavor]

I simply love the Wolverine. The fact that so many people hate him makes me love him all the more. I love an underdog! Would say soooo much more, but don't have time -- it'll have to wait till later.

I love an underdog too and used to love Logan when he was one. But he isn't anymore is he? Now he's like that "give him enough prep time and he can beat anyone" DC hero. He's no longer the short odd-looking hairball with a foul temperament and tortured soul looking for redemption of wrongs he barely remembers. Now he's the tall good looking leader with an adamantium ego! ... bah I don't even want to talk about this anymore, now Im all upset and nostalgic :(

[berzerko89]

Jean should choose who ever she loves. Period. lol. ;):p

[FieryBalrog]

Endeavor got it.

It'd be funny to watch these two gewt together, if only to see how fast the fans wouyld turn on this relationship. Marvel's smart enough to know that hooking them up is jumping the shark...

The Scott/Emma freakshow has lasted. If thats not jumping the shark then I dont see how Jean and Logan would do that.

[FieryBalrog]

It dosent matter. No matter how much debate will happen, the fact is, is that its generally excepted that Scott and Jean are basically soulmates and that jean and logan are nothing more than close friends with a deep bond, or unrequited love. They tease it because it creates tension. I doubt they'll ever fully have a relationhsip, simply because the tension would be gone.

Uh, Jean and Scott are done in the comics. Their relationship is over. They're not together; and they wont be together for at least 3-4 years, and hopefully never.

[berzerko89]

What happened to Jean Logan relationship then?

[FieryBalrog]

Jean loves logan thats funny..I just want thoughts and proof of that other that just fan speculation...in the movies i thinks its lust.in the comics jean never hinted she loves wovlerine she was just attracted to him..if you can find thought bubble that jean says i want logan show me...
Uh, gladly:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1527/resize11ck.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/my.php?image=resize11ck.jpg)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6581/resize28tc.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=resize28tc.jpg)

[DarknessOfDeath]

Jean should have no 'love' for Logan in the first place though. It's more along the lines of lust.

Lust...yes. love...hmm maybe but in a friendship kind of way. you know like yeah... Jean is attracted to him and he's attracted her but she knows she can't act on it the way she wants to cause she's devoted herself to Scott. Scott would do anything to prevent something from happening to her...except in X2...his promise was...rather short. Logan on the other hand, knows he can't have her, but in the end he realizes it even more than he did ...earlier in X2. Simon said the "Romantic" aspect has been resolved... to me...both jean and Logan are just two people who have a thing for each other but can't do anything about it so lets face it guys: Jean and Scott are one whereas Jean and Logan have a deep bond which makes them feel close to each other as friends.

Theres nothing wrong with lust...even if the other person understands how you feel about them and vice versa and yet they already have someone in their life, doesn't mean you can't be their friend... and I get that... and as long as you understand and respect them and with who they are with, then that friendship can lead into something deep. Its all about respecting and understanding someone's feelings wither you love them but at the same time you know you can't be with them. I can respect that and it hurts when u know u can't be with someone you really like. But atleast Jean understands Logan and he understands her...

she does like wild guys ;) hehe... but I don't think Scott is into the wild sidey-ness. Jean has a soft spot for bad boys. but hey...Scott can be a bad boy when he wants to be. lol... :o

[Endeavor]

The Scott/Emma freakshow has lasted. If thats not jumping the shark then I dont see how Jean and Logan would do that.

Yeah, after Scott was brainwashed by Phoenix herself to remain with Frost.

[Redd_Angel]

:D lol! the debate just keeps on going - i love it!! :o :wolverine :cyclops:

[DarknessOfDeath]

I could write more and spill my guts out but i have to go. i'll be back on in the morning.

[Mike059jig]

Uh, gladly:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1527/resize11ck.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/my.php?image=resize11ck.jpg)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6581/resize28tc.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=resize28tc.jpg)as im reading i see that she care's for him deeply in a tragic time...that doesn't prove she wants logan..she cares for him like i said and love him as a friend...

[FieryBalrog]

Yeah, after Scott was brainwashed by Phoenix herself to remain with Frost.

Scott was going to choose Emma before Jean died, her death got in the way by putting him in grief, Jean told him to move on and live.

I dont see how you can get anything about brainwashing or mind-control from the words "Live, Scott. Live" unless you are looking for it already.

[The Batman]

Unless I'm missing something, theres no indication scott was gonna choose emma.

[cyke93]

I simply love the Wolverine. The fact that so many people hate him makes me love him all the more. I love an underdog! Would say soooo much more, but don't have time -- it'll have to wait till later.

wolverine an underdog ?! in the comics yes, but in the movies.. hell no. i wondered why even bother doing this whole love triangle thing with scott and jean, when they don't even show scott and jean do anything !

[cyke93]

i wouldn't go into the realm of the comics anymore when dealing with the x-characters anymore ... its so completely different than what it was (in a bad way i think) that i dont even regard it . its so complex and and so confusing .. i say they should just end those series and start off in a brand new universe with original characters ... although i did follow ult-x but after a while stopped following

[Endeavor]

Scott was going to choose Emma before Jean died, her death got in the way by putting him in grief, Jean told him to move on and live.

I dont see how you can get anything about brainwashing or mind-control from the words "Live, Scott. Live" unless you are looking for it already.

Scott's mind had been messed up and controlled in one way or another since his possession by Appocalypse. Frost did manipulate him with her powers to further confuse him. As for Phoenix 'brainwashing' him. Ok, let's not call it that. Let's say that he was 'gently nudged' to follow a path by arguably the most powerful psi in the Marvel universe. Take that as you will, but keep in mind that before he was "gently nudged" he was grief striken as you said, however after Phoenix did what she did to eradicate the timeline where Sublime came to power he was so changed that he was pratically gropping Frost in front of Jean's grave.

[DarknessOfDeath]

How ... ewie!! :o

[Endeavor]

ewie?

[DarknessOfDeath]

he was pratically gropping Frost in front of Jean's grave.

:o :o

[Endeavor]

Ah, heh

[DarknessOfDeath]

thats a lot of gropping ;) er is that how u spell it? i thought it was groaping... yeah that looks right.

[undomiel]

I love an underdog too and used to love Logan when he was one. But he isn't anymore is he? Now he's like that "give him enough prep time and he can beat anyone" DC hero. He's no longer the short odd-looking hairball with a foul temperament and tortured soul looking for redemption of wrongs he barely remembers. Now he's the tall good looking leader with an adamantium ego! ... bah I don't even want to talk about this anymore, now Im all upset and nostalgic :(

lol...I meant that Logan is the underdog on these boards! Everyone (with a few exceptions) seems to hate him. And I didn't mean to upset you, but I do have to disagree that Wolverine's not the underdog in the movies. He is the tragic hero. He's born to suffer, he is suffering, and he will continue to suffer some more. I don't think anything's really going to work out for him. Even if Jean does finally admit her hidden attraction to him, she's going to go all Dark Phoenix on him and break his heart, which is not covered with adamantium and is very vulnerable, far more than the Wolverine cares to let on.

And the Wolverine is noble. Most of you seem to focus only on the surface -- the tough-guy thing is partly just a front that he puts up to protect himself, and it's partly who he is -- very masculine, utterly direct and unconcerned with what others think of him. But in the end, he always makes the right choice and is very self-sacrificing. (Remember how he rescued Rogue at great risk to his own life -- he would have died to save her.) I like how his rough edges conceal a more tender heart. You have to consider what he's been through -- so much pain and rejection, being used and manipulated by others more powerful than he is -- this is why he's so edgy and tough, not because he's just some macho jerk. You can't expect a guy who's been through all that to be all trusting and sweet. Conversely, Scott's led a relatively sheltered life, protected, loved and mentored by Prof. X while Logan has been abandoned, alone and betrayed, left to fend for himself at a young age. Can you not see why I so sympathize with this guy?!

And the Wolverine is a natural leader. It is interesting how there are different styles of leadership, and how they play out in X-men. Cyclops is definitely more calm and level-headed, which is very important, but the Wolverine is their go-to guy, their clutch man. In medieval times, he would have been considered their champion knight, the Lancelot to Cyke's Arthur. (And, incidentally, there are some interesting love-triangle parallels going on with that story and this one.) He possesses tremendous raw courage and he takes initiative where others would hesitate. The Wolverine is, fundamentally, a survivor. Though he may lack finesse, his animal-survival instincts serve the X-men well.

So I think there are plenty of reasons why Jeannie should absolutely love this guy. And I think she does, in spite of herself. I'm not wishing her to be unfaithful to Scott, mind you -- but it does all make for a great forbidden-love story.

[DarknessOfDeath]

lol...I meant that Logan is the underdog on these boards! Everyone (with a few exceptions) seems to hate him. And I didn't mean to upset you, but I do have to disagree that Wolverine's not the underdog in the movies. He is the tragic hero. He's born to suffer, he is suffering, and he will continue to suffer some more. I don't think anything's really going to work out for him. Even if Jean does finally admit her hidden attraction to him, she's going to go all Dark Phoenix on him and break his heart, which is not covered with adamantium and is very vulnerable, far more than the Wolverine cares to let on.

And the Wolverine is noble. Most of you seem to focus only on the surface -- the tough-guy thing is partly just a front that he puts up to protect himself, and it's partly who he is -- very masculine, utterly direct and unconcerned with what others think of him. But in the end, he always makes the right choice and is very self-sacrificing. (Remember how he rescued Rogue at great risk to his own life -- he would have died to save her.) I like how his rough edges conceal a more tender heart. You have to consider what he's been through -- so much pain and rejection, being used and manipulated by others more powerful than he is -- this is why he's so edgy and tough, not because he's just some macho jerk. You can't expect a guy who's been through all that to be all trusting and sweet. Conversely, Scott's led a relatively sheltered life, protected, loved and mentored by Prof. X while Logan has been abandoned, alone and betrayed, left to fend for himself at a young age. Can you not see why I so sympathize with this guy?!

And the Wolverine is a natural leader. It is interesting how there are different styles of leadership, and how they play out in X-men. Cyclops is definitely more calm and level-headed, which is very important, but the Wolverine is their go-to guy, their clutch man. In medieval times, he would have been considered their champion knight, the Lancelot to Cyke's Arthur. (And, incidentally, there are some interesting love-triangle parallels going on with that story and this one.) He possesses tremendous raw courage and he takes initiative where others would hesitate. The Wolverine is, fundamentally, a survivor. Though he may lack finesse, his animal-survival instincts serve the X-men well.

So I think there are plenty of reasons why Jeannie should absolutely love this guy. And I think she does, in spite of herself. I'm not wishing her to be unfaithful to Scott, mind you -- but it does all make for a great forbidden-love story.

Wow... that sounds so familiar...

Jean: Logan, we need you!! Your a natural leader...your a great help to us
Logan: NO! thats not it!
...

:p lol couldn't resist...

Jean: i've been dying a little bit each day since you back into my life...
Logan: damnit Jean... don't you dare get ur panties in a bunch. -rolls eyes-

[undomiel]

Uh...come again?

[WorthyStevens]

lol...I meant that Logan is the underdog on these boards! Everyone (with a few exceptions) seems to hate him. And I didn't mean to upset you, but I do have to disagree that Wolverine's not the underdog in the movies. He is the tragic hero. He's born to suffer, he is suffering, and he will continue to suffer some more. I don't think anything's really going to work out for him. Even if Jean does finally admit her hidden attraction to him, she's going to go all Dark Phoenix on him and break his heart, which is not covered with adamantium and is very vulnerable, far more than the Wolverine cares to let on.

And the Wolverine is noble. Most of you seem to focus only on the surface -- the tough-guy thing is partly just a front that he puts up to protect himself, and it's partly who he is -- very masculine, utterly direct and unconcerned with what others think of him. But in the end, he always makes the right choice and is very self-sacrificing. (Remember how he rescued Rogue at great risk to his own life -- he would have died to save her.) I like how his rough edges conceal a more tender heart. You have to consider what he's been through -- so much pain and rejection, being used and manipulated by others more powerful than he is -- this is why he's so edgy and tough, not because he's just some macho jerk. You can't expect a guy who's been through all that to be all trusting and sweet. Conversely, Scott's led a relatively sheltered life, protected, loved and mentored by Prof. X while Logan has been abandoned, alone and betrayed, left to fend for himself at a young age. Can you not see why I so sympathize with this guy?!

And the Wolverine is a natural leader. It is interesting how there are different styles of leadership, and how they play out in X-men. Cyclops is definitely more calm and level-headed, which is very important, but the Wolverine is their go-to guy, their clutch man. In medieval times, he would have been considered their champion knight, the Lancelot to Cyke's Arthur. (And, incidentally, there are some interesting love-triangle parallels going on with that story and this one.) He possesses tremendous raw courage and he takes initiative where others would hesitate. The Wolverine is, fundamentally, a survivor. Though he may lack finesse, his animal-survival instincts serve the X-men well.

So I think there are plenty of reasons why Jeannie should absolutely love this guy. And I think she does, in spite of herself. I'm not wishing her to be unfaithful to Scott, mind you -- but it does all make for a great forbidden-love story.

Logan's not a leader...

In hockey terms, he would be what's called an enforcer. While he's not the leader of the team, he acts to protect his teammates from harm, and isn't afraid to face anyone, bigger or smaller than him.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Uh...come again?

... NVM... I was...way over myself... I was in Star Wars mode... mauahahaha...

[undomiel]

Logan's not a leader...

In hockey terms, he would be what's called an enforcer. While he's not the leader of the team, he acts to protect his teammates from harm, and isn't afraid to face anyone, bigger or smaller than him.

No, sorry -- have to disagree on that point. Logan exhibits a particular style of leadership in the field. For example, in the first movie, when everyone else was trapped and didn't know what to do, Logan very quickly jumps into action (intiative-taking) and cuts through his own body to free himself (self-sacrificing) so he can then defeat Sabretooth and free his comrades. After that, it is Logan who comes up with the plan (decisive) and starts telling everyone what to do (commanding) so they can eventually rescue Rogue. He definitely leads. I agree that his leadership has not fully matured, partly because he was never fully committed to the X-men until the very end of X2, so it will be interesting to see how that all plays out in X3.

[DarknessOfDeath]

hmmm watch the scene between him and Storm... before whats his face shows up asking for Dr. Jean Grey.

[FieryBalrog]

Unless I'm missing something, theres no indication scott was gonna choose emma.
There is. He tells Emma he's made a decision. Jean's death causes him too much grief; he abandons the school and Emma. Jean from the White Hot Room tells him: "Live, Scott. Live" These words ("words from the future") appear at the time of her death back in regular reality. That allows Scott to get over grief and once he does, he chooses what he would have without her death: Emma.

Otherwise, you have to say that he was going to choose Jean, but with her death he abandons the school. Then Jean mind-controls him into getting with Emma. But since nothing in the story even mentions mind-control, its not what happened unless you are already convinced it did. For that matter, any OOC appearance could possibly be mind control. Doesnt mean it is.

[undomiel]

hmmm watch the scene between him and Storm... before whats his face shows up asking for Dr. Jean Grey.

I've seen it. Not exactly sure what your point is. Care to clarify?

[CapBeerCino]

lol...I meant that Logan is the underdog on these boards! Everyone (with a few exceptions) seems to hate him.


Not the general public... And I dont think its Wolverine hate (I know I dont hate him) I think people dont agree with how a story about a team is pushed to the side on his account.

[Mike059jig]

I think people are mixing logan character with his overexposure..its a reason they came to not like him IMO..I don't hate wolverine but i don't dislike him..he just their..all the time and people got sick of it...

[Endeavor]

And I didn't mean to upset you, but I do have to disagree that Wolverine's not the underdog in the movies.

Don't worry it wasn't you that upset me, it was remembering Marvel's stupidity as I was typing my answer to you... And I wasn't talking about the Movies character, I was talking about comics Wolverine.

Conversely, Scott's led a relatively sheltered life, protected, loved and mentored by Prof. X while Logan has been abandoned, alone and betrayed, left to fend for himself at a young age. Can you not see why I so sympathize with this guy?!

Well since we are talking about the movies I have to ask you, how do you know this? We know very little about the X-Men before the time they met Wolverine in X1 and Scott particularly since he is one of the characters less explored. We know nothing of his pain, we don't know at what point in his life he joined the X-Men or what happened to him before hand. One could argue that given proper characterization he might have had an even worse time, since he does remember his past and at least Wolverine doesn't know all thats happened to him or that he has done (from his conversations with Stryker it's obvious he wasn't an angel so he's at least spared from remembering those he has wronged). And that there is also a source for the resentment you see towards Wolverine on here (in part). Because those of us who know and love the X-Men know that the other characters are being changed, butchered up and ignored in order to focus on Wolverine and 'glorify' him. So that pisses us off. It is unfair because it's not the character's fault, but rather the business men and women trying to make a buck by using what they think is the more marketable character, but hey we gotta take it out on somebody and Wolverine is there front and center.

nd the Wolverine is a natural leader. It is interesting how there are different styles of leadership, and how they play out in X-men. Cyclops is definitely more calm and level-headed, which is very important, but the Wolverine is their go-to guy, their clutch man. In medieval times, he would have been considered their champion knight, the Lancelot to Cyke's Arthur. (And, incidentally, there are some interesting love-triangle parallels going on with that story and this one.) He possesses tremendous raw courage and he takes initiative where others would hesitate. The Wolverine is, fundamentally, a survivor. Though he may lack finesse, his animal-survival instincts serve the X-men well.
I'm sorry but I think you contradicted yourself here, especially with the example you provided. Being a go-to guy, a survivor or courageous doesn't make anybody a 'natural leader'. A leader cannot be 'the loner', he/she can't be the one who looses his cool and 'wings' it. That's ok when you're doing things solo, but not when you're coordinating with several people, which a good leader is supposed to be able to do. Nobody is questioning Logan's value in a fight. He's good to have on your team, yes, but he's no leader (if he is to be portrayed as his true comics self), just like Lancelot wasn't a leader. I found it interesting that you used Lancelot as a comparison to validate Logan's leadership abilities since Lancelot isn't ever portrayed as the leader type, Arthur is. A valiant, passionate and fearless warrior, true, but not a leader.

[undomiel]

Don't worry it wasn't you that upset me, it was remembering Marvel's stupidity as I was typing my answer to you... And I wasn't talking about the Movies character, I was talking about comics Wolverine.

I'm glad to know I didn't upset you. :)

Well since we are talking about the movies I have to ask you, how do you know this? We know very little about the X-Men before the time they met Wolverine in X1 and Scott particularly since he is one of the characters less explored. We know nothing of his pain, we don't know at what point in his life he joined the X-Men or what happened to him before hand. One could argue that given proper characterization he might have had an even worse time, since he does remember his past

Ah, but Scott hasn't had a worse time of life, has he? How do I know this? Because if he had, you surely would have set me straight about it right away and not bothered with all of these suppositional questions! *undomiel winks and smiles* And we do know a little about these things from the movies; the more carefully one observes, the more one is able to piece together.

and at least Wolverine doesn't know all thats happened to him or that he has done (from his conversations with Stryker it's obvious he wasn't an angel so he's at least spared from remembering those he has wronged). And that there is also a source for the resentment you see towards Wolverine on here (in part). Because those of us who know and love the X-Men know that the other characters are being changed, butchered up and ignored in order to focus on Wolverine and 'glorify' him. So that pisses us off. It is unfair because it's not the character's fault, but rather the business men and women trying to make a buck by using what they think is the more marketable character, but hey we gotta take it out on somebody and Wolverine is there front and center.


I'm sorry but I think you contradicted yourself here, especially with the example you provided. Being a go-to guy, a survivor or courageous doesn't make anybody a 'natural leader'. A leader cannot be 'the loner', he/she can't be the one who looses his cool and 'wings' it.

I'm not saying he is the (one and only) leader of the X-men; I'm simply saying he possesses certain leadership characteristics. For example, he takes charge in a situation, sometimes by telling others what to do, and sometimes just by doing what needs to be done on the fly.

That's ok when you're doing things solo, but not when you're coordinating with several people, which a good leader is supposed to be able to do.

Umm.. what about my X1 example?

Nobody is questioning Logan's value in a fight. He's good to have on your team, yes, but he's no leader (if he is to be portrayed as his true comics self), just like Lancelot wasn't a leader. I found it interesting that you used Lancelot as a comparison to validate Logan's leadership abilities since Lancelot isn't ever portrayed as the leader type, Arthur is. A valiant, passionate and fearless warrior, true, but not a leader.

I'm no expert in Arthurian legend, but I do know that Lancelot was Arthur's champion and field commander. As in: the leader of his armies. It's a good example because what differs are their styles and places of leadership. Lancelot is a great warrior, very inspiring to his fellow soldiers in battle. He is an action leader. So he makes a great field commander. Arthur, on the other hand, is very wise and self-controlled. He is excellent at governing the people. Both things involve leadership, but different manifestations of it.

I think I wasn't clear enough in my original post about this. I believe Logan is developing as a leader. He's not completely arrived yet, but I do believe he has shown potential. I agree with you that commitment is the first step, which he indicated at the very end of X2. But just because Logan's a reluctant leader doesn't mean he's got no leadership skills at all. That's why I said X3 will be so interesting -- we'll see what happens and who leads whom.

[Endeavor]

Ah, but Scott hasn't had a worse time of life, has he? How do I know this? Because if he had, you surely would have set me straight about it right away and not bothered with all of these suppositional questions! *undomiel winks and smiles* And we do know a little about these things from the movies; the more carefully one observes, the more one is able to piece together.

I see your point better now and I agree that it will be interesting to see what develops with his character in X3, even though I would prefer to see other characters explored instead of him, such as Cyclops...
About what i quoted above, are we still talking about the movies only or were you also mixing in the comics? Also please share on what careful observation you have made that has given you insight on Cyclops' history in the movie-verse?

[freshandclean]

Anyone seen the new Jean/Logan TV Spot that's being discussed in the other thread?

[Endeavor]

Anyone seen the new Jean/Logan TV Spot that's being discussed in the other thread?
I think you're talking about a fan-made trailer. I believe DarknessOfDeath created it.

[freshandclean]

I think you're talking about a fan-made trailer. I believe DarknessOfDeath created it.

No, apparently it aired during the O.C.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8690753&postcount=4483

[Endeavor]

Then I don't know

[DarknessOfDeath]

tsk tsk... ... tsk tsk.... Endeavor...ya like my video?

[Endeavor]

I wasn't able to see it DOD, there was a problem with the download page when I tried it :(

[DarknessOfDeath]

im sorry :(

[Endeavor]

Not your fault. FireFox fizzled on me

[DarknessOfDeath]

Well in that case... its firefox... Try using IE...

[undomiel]

I see your point better now and I agree that it will be interesting to see what develops with his character in X3, even though I would prefer to see other characters explored instead of him, such as Cyclops...
About what i quoted above, are we still talking about the movies only or were you also mixing in the comics? Also please share on what careful observation you have made that has given you insight on Cyclops' history in the movie-verse?

Gladly. But it's been a while since I've seen the movies...hmmm...maybe I'll just have to watch them again! :) But I do remember Xavier explaining to Logan about the school, and he says that Cyclops, Storm and Jean were some of his first students. It gave me the impression they had been with him for a long time, especially since it was a "school for gifted youngsters". Also, when Scott is talking to the unconscious Xavier and promising he'll take care of the students if Xavier doesn't recover -- that showed me how close he was to the professor, and how he looked upon the professor as a mentor.

[Endeavor]

Gladly. But it's been a while since I've seen the movies...hmmm...maybe I'll just have to watch them again! :) But I do remember Xavier explaining to Logan about the school, and he says that Cyclops, Storm and Jean were some of his first students. It gave me the impression they had been with him for a long time, especially since it was a "school for gifted youngsters". Also, when Scott is talking to the unconscious Xavier and promising he'll take care of the students if Xavier doesn't recover -- that showed me how close he was to the professor, and how he looked upon the professor as a mentor.

Correct, I know those scenes well, but they're no proof of anything. There are no specifics mentioned there and therefore no way you can accurately say "Cyclops had an easy life"... you couldn't say that for Storm either. It's a passing comment that doesn't really give much information. The fact that Beast is now in the 3rd movie being introduced as another of the '1st students' is proof of just how broad and vague that statement in X1 was.

[undomiel]

Correct, I know those scenes well, but they're no proof of anything. There are no specifics mentioned there and therefore no way you can accurately say "Cyclops had an easy life"... you couldn't say that for Storm either. It's a passing comment that doesn't really give much information. The fact that Beast is now in the 3rd movie being introduced as another of the '1st students' is proof of just how broad and vague that statement in X1 was.

Oh, no -- I didn't mean it was "proof" of anything -- that's just what I took away from it. The movies don't give details to prove that Wolverine had a really tough life, but it was the feeling I got from watching them.

Now, back to the topic at hand...Jean and Logan, the evolving relationship.

I posted this somewhere else, but I may as well say it here, too. The writers have done something very interesting with Jean's character. They've thrown her into an awful situation, a situation that no woman wants to be in. She appears to have fallen in love with two men -- both Scott and Logan. Now most people rail that Jean totally belongs to Scott and say that Logan is a bad guy for pursuing her while knowing she's already engaged. But I think Logan pursues her because he senses she does have real feelings for him. If Scott were a bad guy, it would all be very simple -- Jean could just run to Logan for rescue. But Scott's not bad, he's a great guy. So it's a mess, but it's an interesting mess.

And a broken engagement is not the same thing as a broken marriage vow. In fact, one could argue that it would be better to break off an engagement if one of the two realizes that he/she is really more in love with someone else. I'm not saying it will happen, or that it necessarily should -- just that it's a very difficult situation.

[Redd_Angel]

i think - i may be completely off here, so be nice! :o - but i think wolverine can understand people's feelings because of his heightened senses. like if someone's scared, perhaps he can sense their faster heartbeat or if they're sweating or something.

anyway, if that were true, then it makes the jean/logan relationship all the more interesting and complex! coz maybe jean hides her attraction toward logan because she loves scott, but logan can actually sense that jean somewhat has feelings for him so he pursues her. conversely, logan keeps his thoughts and past from everyone, and he isolates himself. but jean can also read minds, which can allow her to understand logan better than anyone. so there's a lot of things unsaid between them, and there's a lot of things beneath their outside demeanors even if jean's restricted by her loyalty to scott. :) :up:

[Darkie]

JeLo YES!!!

[Deep Thinkin'!]

i think - i may be completely off here, so be nice! :o - but i think wolverine can understand people's feelings because of his heightened senses. like if someone's scared, perhaps he can sense their faster heartbeat or if they're sweating or something.

anyway, if that were true, then it makes the jean/logan relationship all the more interesting and complex! coz maybe jean hides her attraction toward logan because she loves scott, but logan can actually sense that jean somewhat has feelings for him so he pursues her. conversely, logan keeps his thoughts and past from everyone, and he isolates himself. but jean can also read minds, which can allow her to understand logan better than anyone. so there's a lot of things unsaid between them, and there's a lot of things beneath their outside demeanors even if jean's restricted by her loyalty to scott. :) :up:

hmm.... you have an interesting point..... *thinks*

[Loganbabe]

One could argue that given proper characterization he might have had an even worse time, since he does remember his past and at least Wolverine doesn't know all thats happened to him or that he has done (from his conversations with Stryker it's obvious he wasn't an angel so he's at least spared from remembering those he has wronged).
Why would you believe in Stryker anyway? He was a villain, he was a terrible person, and he was still trying to use and manipulate Logan. It´s easy to do that to an amnsesiac - just check out "Memento". I never believed for a moment all the Stryker bull**** of Logan "being an animal then" and a horrible person. Logan isn´t an angel, of course - but then, no one is. But he certainly wasn´t the person Stryker described.

As for Logan being a leader or not, well of course he has the skills to be a wonderful leader, if he wants to. He´s simply not interested. And I like him that way, since I was never attracted to leader types anyway...

[Spidey 2007]

theres always room for jelo. :up:

[Endeavor]

I never believed for a moment all the Stryker bull**** of Logan "being an animal then" and a horrible person.
You didn't believe it because you didn't want to but there's no proof to validate one possibility over the other. Stryker was a villain yes, but everything out of his mouth wasn't a lie. How do you know he was lying in that scene? You can't know for sure.

[Darkie]

theres always room for jelo. :up:

:up::up: :eek:

[undomiel]

i think - i may be completely off here, so be nice! :o - but i think wolverine can understand people's feelings because of his heightened senses. like if someone's scared, perhaps he can sense their faster heartbeat or if they're sweating or something.

anyway, if that were true, then it makes the jean/logan relationship all the more interesting and complex! coz maybe jean hides her attraction toward logan because she loves scott, but logan can actually sense that jean somewhat has feelings for him so he pursues her. conversely, logan keeps his thoughts and past from everyone, and he isolates himself. but jean can also read minds, which can allow her to understand logan better than anyone. so there's a lot of things unsaid between them, and there's a lot of things beneath their outside demeanors even if jean's restricted by her loyalty to scott. :) :up:

You are right on, Redd Angel! Animals are extremely sensitive to the feelings of other creatures, and I agree with you completely -- Logan pursues Jean because he senses her attraction to him. I also agree that Jean hides her feelings because she's engaged to Scott and doesn't want to mess that up -- it's partly out of loyalty and partly out of fear, I think.

It's nice to know that there are at least a few other people out there who picked up on the same kinds of things.

[weatherwitch]

**yawn** Same old same old. LOL. :p

[DarknessOfDeath]

You are right on, Redd Angel! Animals are extremely sensitive to the feelings of other creatures, and I agree with you completely -- Logan pursues Jean because he senses her attraction to him. I also agree that Jean hides her feelings because she's engaged to Scott and doesn't want to mess that up -- it's partly out of loyalty and partly out of fear, I think.

It's nice to know that there are at least a few other people out there who picked up on the same kinds of things.

I agree with you and Redd_angel ... they pretty much sums up of what I've been trying to spill my guts out for the last two months or so. :up:

[Angry Sentinel]

Just to inject some new blood into the conversation about Wolverine's life vs Cyclop's... I agree with the comments made about the details not really being there to support much of an assumption. But the comparison is further lost when you consider that, by the movie's suggestion, Wolverine could quite possibly be older than the professor. So, how would one compare the life, or difficulty of life, of a 70 - 100 year old man (Wolverine), to a 20 - 24 year old man (Cyclops)?

[Murder]

All this articulating over which person they want Jean to end up with... What's wrong with a 3-Way or maybe Scott or Wolverine are closet beligamist!! Cheers my fellow Brothers!!!

[BobJM]

If not in this film, hopefully next film, I really want to see Logan push Scott too far and I want them to get into a physical, dangerous fight. I'm sure Scott has all this anger in him with Logan trying to steal his wife, even once she rises from the dead. It's just those two have never really been explored, well in relation to that particular plot line. They always just showcase Jean & Logan and Jean & Scott. Never Scott & Logan arguing. To me, that would be interesting with Jean caught in the middle, trying to break it up.

[DarknessOfDeath]

uh they're not married in the movies. you know that right? They were engaged...and Famke said so herself...

[BobJM]

In X2, Jean says to Logan outside the X-Jet.

"Girls flirt with the dangerous girl, Logan. They don't take them home. I married a good guy."

He says:

"I can be a good guy"

She says:

"Logan, the good guy sticks arou--"

Kiss blah blah blah

[DarknessOfDeath]

She says They...marry the good guy... I just happened to watch the clip.

[undomiel]

Just to inject some new blood into the conversation about Wolverine's life vs Cyclop's... I agree with the comments made about the details not really being there to support much of an assumption. But the comparison is further lost when you consider that, by the movie's suggestion, Wolverine could quite possibly be older than the professor. So, how would one compare the life, or difficulty of life, of a 70 - 100 year old man (Wolverine), to a 20 - 24 year old man (Cyclops)?

More time for poor Logan to suffer, I would think...

[undomiel]

If not in this film, hopefully next film, I really want to see Logan push Scott too far and I want them to get into a physical, dangerous fight. I'm sure Scott has all this anger in him with Logan trying to steal his wife, even once she rises from the dead. It's just those two have never really been explored, well in relation to that particular plot line. They always just showcase Jean & Logan and Jean & Scott. Never Scott & Logan arguing. To me, that would be interesting with Jean caught in the middle, trying to break it up.

But the interesting thing is that Jean's death kind of brought them together at the end of X2. I think in the beginning of X3 they'll relate more like brothers, and then we don't know what the heck happens to Scott -- whether he'll even live to be upset about what goes on between Logan and Jean. But she's not his wife yet -- she's just his fiancee.

[Karategirlx2001]

In X2, Jean says to Logan outside the X-Jet.

"Girls flirt with the dangerous girl, Logan. They don't take them home. I married a good guy."

He says:

"I can be a good guy"

She says:

"Logan, the good guy sticks arou--"

Kiss blah blah blah


I remember there was a heavy discussion on this a few months ago. It is in fact "they marry the good guy." I think it shows it that way on the subtitles and captions.

[BobJM]

But the interesting thing is that Jean's death kind of brought them together at the end of X2. I think in the beginning of X3 they'll relate more like brothers, and then we don't know what the heck happens to Scott -- whether he'll even live to be upset about what goes on between Logan and Jean. But she's not his wife yet -- she's just his fiancee.

The only reason said that "Jean picked you" at the end of X2 is because he thought there was zero chance of her ever coming back. He made ammends. But the second she comes back into his life, he forgets completely about his pact with Cyclops. I hope, if Scott is still breathing, they make a remark at that quote.

[Lazmarquez]

If I were Logan, I would most certainly comfort Cyclops, who took the death obviously very tough by saying that she chose him. She never truly made a choice.

Also, I think that the fact that in the X3 clips, Jean is so cozy with Logan, says something. The dark phoenix indulges on her inner wants and needs, without inhibition.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Well what do you tell yourself... after all that happened back at Alkali Lake, all of the sudden, Jean is Back!! What do you do, what do you say when your feelings resurfaces for someone you cared about as a friend and knowing it'll never work out if it ever turned into a love-like relationship?

I don't think he forgot about the remark he made to cykes about she chose you. Its just... I think he's confused cause she's back... and doesn't know that she's not herself...well. some could argue that...but I think he kinda knows she's kinda different cause prof x said so.

[undomiel]

The only reason said that "Jean picked you" at the end of X2 is because he thought there was zero chance of her ever coming back. He made ammends. But the second she comes back into his life, he forgets completely about his pact with Cyclops. I hope, if Scott is still breathing, they make a remark at that quote.

No, I disagree. Logan sincerely believes Jean was rejecting him after that kiss where she pushed him away. I think he'll be most surprised to discover that perhaps he was wrong! And Logan never, ever said that he had stopped caring for Jean. Just because he can't have her doesn't mean he has no feelings for her.

By the way -- did any of you catch the X3 TV spot that aired during Seabiscuit on Saturday night? WOOT!!! Je-Lo ALL THE WAY!!!

[Karategirlx2001]

So now that the movie is over...

[The Batman]

I'm SO GLAD when logan said "I love you" to Jean, she didnt say "I love you too"

[DarknessOfDeath]

Me Too...though Jean didn't really have to cause you know where her heart belongs to and Logan knew it but he had to admit his feelings for her. but yeah. anyway. moving on...

[The Batman]

I'm glad it didnt turn out as bad as i thought. It was clear that jean dosent love logan in that way.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Though she still cared about him...in a way. Friendly love-like :rolleyes:

[The Batman]

yeah. i liked that part.

"I love you logan, but i'm not in love with you..."

[DarknessOfDeath]

though she knew he would kill her... because she wanted him to...


I liked her redemption like expression... wow. beautifully done, I thought.



kinda looked like something else but im not going there :p

[The Caped Knight]

The scene in X3 where Dark Phoenix was making the moves on Logan was superhot. I wished I was Logan .

[oneteen]

I wanted Scott to atleast say "I love you." to Jean but he died too fast... :(

[DarknessOfDeath]

Me too... :(

[oneteen]

I don't know...when Scott reunited with Jean and smiled...that was beautiful.

[undomiel]

I'm glad it didnt turn out as bad as i thought. It was clear that jean dosent love logan in that way.

No, no, no! I totally disagree with you! Jean has long had feelings for Logan -- she had to make a choice between him and Scott, and Scott was the safer, more sensible, simpler choice. But isn't it interesting that in her fury she apparently killed Scott, but she let Logan live! And, come on, let's not forget the scene where Jean wakes up. Deepest desires rising to the surface.

[D-scythe]

Desires/lust does not equal love. She didn't choose Logan because she loved Scott, even though she may lust for Logan.

In any case, Scott and Jean never stood a chance. The movies were biased towards Logan from the start. Just compare the screentime each relationship got. It's no wonder why Jean/Logan is so popular.

[oneteen]

In any case, Scott and Jean never stood a chance. The movies were biased towards Logan from the start. Just compare the screentime each relationship got. It's no wonder why Jean/Logan is so popular.
That's what I find unfair. Every x-men fan knows that it's been Scott and Jean from the start. The movies are so opposite. I was even wishing they should've showed flashbacks of Scott and Jean together.:down

[Reptile_Orion]

The scene in X3 where Dark Phoenix was making the moves on Logan was superhot. I wished I was Logan .

Oh yeah....Logan was definitely the luckiest X-Man during that scene.... :up:

[ShadesOfRedd]

No, no, no! I totally disagree with you! Jean has long had feelings for Logan -- she had to make a choice between him and Scott, and Scott was the safer, more sensible, simpler choice. But isn't it interesting that in her fury she apparently killed Scott, but she let Logan live! And, come on, let's not forget the scene where Jean wakes up. Deepest desires rising to the surface.

Of course Logan's still alive Logan can heal just about everything in the movies so -.-

[undomiel]

Desires/lust does not equal love. She didn't choose Logan because she loved Scott, even though she may lust for Logan.

In any case, Scott and Jean never stood a chance. The movies were biased towards Logan from the start. Just compare the screentime each relationship got. It's no wonder why Jean/Logan is so popular.

I disagree with you -- Jean/Logan is not at all popular, especially not on these boards -- there are only about a half-dozen of us who support it!

And you guys are missing a huge point: if Jean really loved Scott and Scott alone, she would not lust after Logan. She would be completely satisfied with Scott and she would not be tempted by anyone else. If she does lust after Logan, then it shows that something is lacking in her relationship with Scott.

Another point: Jean is a woman and, up till X3 at least, a very decent woman at that. Yet most people have argued that, in all of the movies, she loves Scott and lusts after Logan. It is the only way they can think to "justify" the obvious attraction between the two. Yet most women, and certainly decent women like Jean Grey, do not have this dichotomous love/lust thing going on. That's generally a guy thing. In other words, women are only interested in physical relationships with men when they feel an emotional attachment. Yes, they may lust after a guy, but it is almost never devoid of emotional attachment ("love", if you will). Jean Grey is not like a guy -- she doesn't just "love" this person, and, entirely seperately, "lust" after this other guy over here. For women, the two things go hand in hand. My point? If Jean is sexually attracted to Logan (and it's obvious that she is), then she is emotionally involved as well.

Now that we have all this Dark Phoenix business, everything is up in the air. Who really is Jean Grey after all? It's only after we know the answer to that question that we can really understand the nature of her affections.

[D-scythe]

I disagree with you -- Jean/Logan is not at all popular, especially not on these boards -- there are only about a half-dozen of us who support it!

Ask your friends who aren't into comics who they were rooting for. Hint: it's not Scott/Jean.

And you guys are missing a huge point: if Jean really loved Scott and Scott alone, she would not lust after Logan. She would be completely satisfied with Scott and she would not be tempted by anyone else. If she does lust after Logan, then it shows that something is lacking in her relationship with Scott.

Nothing is lacking, because Jean never (openly) lusted for Logan. PHOENIX did. And she's schizophrenic, so any argument of Phoenix just showing Jean's hidden desires is utter crap.

[undomiel]

Ask your friends who aren't into comics who they were rooting for. Hint: it's not Scott/Jean.



Nothing is lacking, because Jean never (openly) lusted for Logan. PHOENIX did. And she's schizophrenic, so any argument of Phoenix just showing Jean's hidden desires is utter crap.

But it's the Jean/Cyclops fans who always claim that she lusted after Logan, even before X3!

And if she's truly schizophrenic, then all of her actions are a part of who she really is, like it or not.

[vinegar_q]

Nothing is lacking, because Jean never (openly) lusted for Logan. PHOENIX did. And she's schizophrenic, so any argument of Phoenix just showing Jean's hidden desires is utter crap.

well, you can't deny she is the one person who really accepted logan when he first joined the team. and before the phoenix saga and schizophrenia, she did confide iin the professor, telling him that she feels attracted to logan. :)

[PowersOfMind]

I would make for an interesting threesome. Even though I think the Phoenix persona would be perfect with Logan. Jean is this sweet, smart woman, whose love for Scott would never allow her to act on her lustly feelings toward Logan. While the Phoenix is the part of her that wants to make out with Logan.

DOD and I have been agreeing on the infirmary scene ever since we've seen the movie.

[DarknessOfDeath]

... im a little busy at the moment. Got a project to work on. lol ... I don't remember our discussion or agreeing on the infirmary scene ...nvm... I think I remember...gah. my brain hurts. I've got a project due tomorrow. So i'll be on later tonight...

[PowersOfMind]

It wasnt really a discussion is was more like you and me kept running the same commentary, if it was brought up in different threads, on the infirmary scene and how much we like it.

[DarknessOfDeath]

oh I see... Well I'll be back later.

[Lazmarquez]

I may be chiming in here a little late, but after seeing this film I have to support the cases i've made in the past. I am a fan of the comic books (I read them weekly), a fan of the cartoons, and a fan of the films. And not until the films have i come to really appreciate Logan and Jean's relationship. There is a very human conflict in this relationship. Many argue that Jean never loved Logan, only lusted for him. Like mentioned above, females tend to have a hand in hand idealism towards sexual acts and their attachment emotionally. Especially someone as wonderful as Jean. I think she feared her feelings for Logan, which is why she's always been so hesitant about it. In X2, she stated, "The good guy sticks around", as if to make an excuse to why she isnt going for him. His instability proves to frighten Jean. But obviously she's thought about it. She kissed the man, and barely pulled away at that. In X3, she called out to him when her other man was dead. And I dont believe its because she thought he'd kill her, but because he was the next person she felt such a strong connection with. She was reaching out. She could have reached out to anyone else, anyone more willing to kill her (Storm, for example). Generally, I feel as though this is a very relative idea and I understand and cherish both sides of it. Scott and Jean are the opitome of solidity in a relationship, very ideal.. but Logan loves Jean with all of his heart and refuses to give up on her, he fights for her.. and thats also commedable in the ideas of love, which is why im such a shipper..

[undomiel]

I may be chiming in here a little late, but after seeing this film I have to support the cases i've made in the past. I am a fan of the comic books (I read them weekly), a fan of the cartoons, and a fan of the films. And not until the films have i come to really appreciate Logan and Jean's relationship. There is a very human conflict in this relationship. Many argue that Jean never loved Logan, only lusted for him. Like mentioned above, females tend to have a hand in hand idealism towards sexual acts and their attachment emotionally. Especially someone as wonderful as Jean. I think she feared her feelings for Logan, which is why she's always been so hesitant about it. In X2, she stated, "The good guy sticks around", as if to make an excuse to why she isnt going for him. His instability proves to frighten Jean. But obviously she's thought about it. She kissed the man, and barely pulled away at that. In X3, she called out to him when her other man was dead. And I dont believe its because she thought he'd kill her, but because he was the next person she felt such a strong connection with. She was reaching out. She could have reached out to anyone else, anyone more willing to kill her (Storm, for example). Generally, I feel as though this is a very relative idea and I understand and cherish both sides of it. Scott and Jean are the opitome of solidity in a relationship, very ideal.. but Logan loves Jean with all of his heart and refuses to give up on her, he fights for her.. and thats also commedable in the ideas of love, which is why im such a shipper..

Yes, yes...and isn't it interesting? One the one side you have Logan and his unbridled, passionate love for Jean. On the other side you have Scott, offering stability and security. I can appreciate both. I know we argue a lot about which relationship we prefer (I as much as anyone), but I think one of the coolest things is how the writers set up this tension. It's one of the reasons why I don't like it when people say "It's only ever Scott and Jean, all the way." That's too simplistic; there's really no story there. The idea of this being a personal conflict that Jean has to deal with is so much more interesting.