Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #7 MAJOR SPOILERS SHOCKING RETURN

[CrimeMaster!]

Hey, I was over at the Spider-Man Message forum and come across this.Spoilers from FNSM #7 .Heres the poster OZ's whole text I copyed.




Guys, I was just picking up the comics in my pull list yesterday(Which Always come in on Thursday in this town. SIGH) when i Approached the advance copy rack.
I thumbed through Next Week's issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man #7. It Looks like a great issue with a nice battle. Everything I've come to expect from Peter David was there.
However I Was NOT Prepared for the final Pages!
I don't think Any Of us Are.
Aunt May is out on a Date with Edwin Jarvis when she sees...Uncle Ben watching her through a window! Ben Turns away sadly.
The Letters Page then makes it official. It Proclaims FNSM #8 as the Return of Uncle Ben! Apparantly the Future Hobgoblin from the year 2211 is attempting to erase all Spider-men from the timeline by eliminating Peter Parker's motivation for Becoming Spider-man. The Letters page promised that we would see what Happened if Uncle Ben had never died.
The Solicits for FNSm #8 and #9 have mentioned a Major Figure from the past returning(and I couldn't think of ANYONE Bigger) and the price Peter may have to pay to set things right.
Anyone In Shock Yet?

[Venom_uk]

Yet another reason why I'm gald I dropped this crap months ago. :):up:

[Gregatron]

Hey, I was over at the Spider-Man Message forum and come across this.Spoilers from FNSM #7 .Heres the poster OZ's whole text I copyed.




Guys, I was just picking up the comics in my pull list yesterday(Which Always come in on Thursday in this town. SIGH) when i Approached the advance copy rack.
I thumbed through Next Week's issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man #7. It Looks like a great issue with a nice battle. Everything I've come to expect from Peter David was there.
However I Was NOT Prepared for the final Pages!
I don't think Any Of us Are.
Aunt May is out on a Date with Edwin Jarvis when she sees...Uncle Ben watching her through a window! Ben Turns away sadly.
The Letters Page then makes it official. It Proclaims FNSM #8 as the Return of Uncle Ben! Apparantly the Future Hobgoblin from the year 2211 is attempting to erase all Spider-men from the timeline by eliminating Peter Parker's motivation for Becoming Spider-man. The Letters page promised that we would see what Happened if Uncle Ben had never died.
The Solicits for FNSm #8 and #9 have mentioned a Major Figure from the past returning(and I couldn't think of ANYONE Bigger) and the price Peter may have to pay to set things right.
Anyone In Shock Yet?


If not true...sigh.

If true....DEEP sigh.

[Joker]

So Marvel is possibly ressurrecting Uncle Ben?? This is supposed to be a surprise??

With what they've been doing lately,I'd be surpised if they didn't pull something like this next.It was the only logical way for them to go next.

[KingOfDreams]

That would suck a fat one. I would lose a lot of respect for David if he did that.

[Symbiotica]

Oh jeezus.... LMAO. What next, I tell you?

Harry coming back from the grave too, that's what'll be next.

[Gregatron]

Nothing surprises me these days. N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

I expect anything to come from The House of Painful Ideas.

[Shin-Natsume]

yeah. i bet stan *****slaps the responsible person day in and day out for that...

[Dope Nose]

so that's Uncle Ben & Bucky at Marvel, and Barry Allen over in the pages of Infinite Crisis.

[Gregatron]

Yep. It's all a big joke. Death has no meaning. "Just kidding, folks! We can do anything we want, and it doesn't have any reprecussions!"

[Gregatron]

Oh, and we've already seen what would happen if Ben Parker hadn't died:

http://www.samruby.com/OtherTitles/WhatIf/whatif46.htm

[Doc Destruction]

Oh...




my.....




frigging........



GOD.


Stop. Just stop. This is too much.

[Doc Destruction]

so that's Uncle Ben & Bucky at Marvel, and Barry Allen over in the pages of Infinite Crisis.

That hasn't been confirmed to be Barry yet. I'm personally thinking it's a grown up Bart.

[stillanerd]

:down:mad::down

Cue a doe-eyed little boy looking up a Joe Q, tattered issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man#7, with tears in his eyes--

BOY: Say it aint so, Joe. Say it ain't so!

Man, just how many sharks has this comic book jumped anyway? Of course, if it is Uncle Ben, that means will get some "personal crisis for Spidey" it whether he should let his Uncle live or die. Jezz, I didn't realize Superboy Prime's retcon punch also affected the Marvel Universe. All that needs to happen now is for Spidey to reveal his secret identity and his destruction as a character will be complete.

[Gregatron]

:down:mad::down

Cue a doe-eyed little boy looking up a Joe Q, tattered issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man#7, with tears in his eyes--

BOY: Say it aint so, Joe. Say it ain't so!

Man, just how many sharks has this comic book jumped anyway? Of course, if it is Uncle Ben, that means will get some "personal crisis for Spidey" it whether he should let his Uncle live or die. Jezz, I didn't realize Superboy Prime's retcon punch also affected the Marvel Universe. All that needs to happen now is for Spidey to reveal his secret identity and his destruction as a character will be complete.


That's the PLAN, obviously. To utterly destroy Marvel Universe Spidey in order to force people jump to Ultimate Spider-Man.

If all goes well, 50 years from now, historians will say that Spider-Man was created by Bendis and Bagley.

"Stan" who?

"Ditko"? What kinda name is that? Some shlub I never heard of...

[Rez]

...The future Hobgoblin? Uncle Ben? What the ****? Is this What If 2099?

[Rez]

And another thing, out of all the villians they chose to execute this dumbass idea, the Hobgoblin? He's one of the few that didn't have a personal vendetta against Spidey. Genius.

[Kraven]

Oh, great. I mean, the one guy that should just stay dead in Spidey's life, and what do they do? They bring him back. Hopefully it only lasts for the Hobgoblin arc, and by the time that's done he'll be erased again.

[Captivated]

Good grief... :mad: Is NOTHING sacred?!

So we have a time traveling Hobgoblin, who not only KNOWS who Spider-Man is, but knows Peter's deepest motivation for being a hero... and what does he mean "erase ALL Spider-Men" - plural?

This sounds pretty convoluted, and would screw up WAY to much, so surely it will not last.

Wasn't there a "What If" story that explored this, not to mention that House of M horror.

[stillanerd]

Good grief... :mad: Is NOTHING sacred?!

So we have a time traveling Hobgoblin, who not only KNOWS who Spider-Man is, but knows Peter's deepest motivation for being a hero... and what does he mean "erase ALL Spider-Men" - plural?

This sounds pretty convoluted, and would screw up WAY to much, so surely it will not last.

Wasn't there a "What If" story that explored this, not to mention that House of M horror.

Probably guys like Spider-Man 2099 and that other Spider-Man from the future with robotic arms (forgot what year he was from) (Hopefully, this includes all those totemistic Spider-Men Ezekiel talked about--that would be the only saving grace out of making such a boner like this.)

[CaptainStacy]

This book sucks.

Spidey vs...um..."wrestler-guy": Pass.

Return of "Jack-ass Flash Thompson: Pass.

Return of....um..."Future Hoboblin-guy": Pass.

Now the return of Uncle Ben?

Quite frankly, i'm too bored with this nonsense to be "SHOCKED" anymore.

You know, somewhere (i.e. the offices of DC Comics) Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, Brad Meltzer, and Mark Waid, are looking at this crap and just laughing their collective asses off.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

It's...happened.

My reason to drop comics.

I swore to quit if Uncle Ben ever returned, and now that day is upon is.

If this isn't gone by th' end of th' story, well, I guess that's it.

[Effect]

I had this long post typed out about this after reading this thread until I realized there was no point. Then I deleted it and started typing this. My feelings for this can be expressed in just the following words and actions.

Ugh. Sigh. When is the next issue of Amazing Spider-man and especially Ultimate Spider-man being released? *shake head and sighs again*

I knew there had to be something to the feeling I got when I thought about picking up FNSM (outside of The Other issues). That feeling just kept me away for some reason. Now I trust that feeling even more.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Of course, PAD can do no wrong. He's th' man. He's th' most awesomest Spidey writer ever who will restore Spidey's good name!

And that's what you yackasses get fer praising a title BEFORE IT EVEN COMES OUT!

[Citizen_Kaine]

Spider Girl?

Spider Girl anyone?

Aunt May is dead, Baby May is alive, Kaine is still here :up:, and The Real Hobgoblin as well, not to mention consistant quality month after month and respect for a characters history. And of course my personal favorite Spidey writer Tom Defalco

or you could read the other Spider Man What If? series, you know, the one featuring Iron Man's sidekick, Stingers, Mexican Wrestling, Uncle Ben and the villians from 2099 :o

[Norman Osborn]

Lol.....well thanks for making my mind up about keeping FNSM.....I truly wish Pete had stayed dead....I wouldn't miss him near as much as I do now!

[stillanerd]

Spider Girl?

Spider Girl anyone?

Aunt May is dead, Baby May is alive, Kaine is still here :up:, and The Real Hobgoblin as well, not to mention consistant quality month after month and respect for a characters history. And of course my personal favorite Spidey writer Tom Defalco

or you could read the other Spider Man What If? series, you know, the one featuring Iron Man's sidekick, Stingers, Mexican Wrestling, Uncle Ben and the villians from 2099 :o

LOL. Gosh, when you put it that way, maybe Ben Reilly should've stayed on as Spider-Man...wow, I can't believe I even said that.:)

[LarryLegend]

What crap. Everytime I thinks it can't get worse it does.

[Citizen_Kaine]

LOL. Gosh, when you put it that way, maybe Ben Reilly should've stayed on as Spider-Man...wow, I can't believe I even said that.


In your heart of hearts you know it to be true 'Nerd :) :up:

[stillanerd]

In your heart of hearts you know it to be true 'Nerd :) :up:

*sticks fingers in ears* I'm not listening. Hmmmmm.... :)

[Hoban]

As much as I despise the idea of Ben being resurrected, I honestly don't think it'll be that bad. It can't possibly be anything more than a "What if?" style story, simply becauseof this line "The Letters page promised that we would see what Happened if Uncle Ben had never died." And I doubt he'll be alive by the end of the arc.

So personally, I'll take it with a grain of salt, and (hopefully)enjoy it as a What if?. besides, it's written by Peter David, it can't really be that bad.


That being said, if it's not a what if tale, I'll be pretty depressed.

[Trevor Goodchild]

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to post this in...but since this is the current heated up topic:

Never in my not so long comic book reading career would’ve I imagined experiencing what must've experienced my comic book geek kin at the age of the Clone Saga...

[Dragon]

As much as I despise the idea of Ben being resurrected, I honestly don't think it'll be that bad. It can't possibly be anything more than a "What if?" style story, simply becauseof this line "The Letters page promised that we would see what Happened if Uncle Ben had never died." And I doubt he'll be alive by the end of the arc.

So personally, I'll take it with a grain of salt, and (hopefully)enjoy it as a What if?. besides, it's written by Peter David, it can't really be that bad.


That being said, if it's not a what if tale, I'll be pretty depressed.

A few weeks back I made a post about why I feel bothered over the new suit, despite the fact that we all know the suit is temporary.

Again the problem is that every story is the big life-altering event.

And at the same time, every story is the same old thing. We just saw Uncle Ben alive in House of M. We pretty much know what Peter's life would be like if Ben lived. So Marvel needs to cover new territory.

What I'd like to see- character driven stories- not gimmickry. Moving Peter and his supporting cast toward the future, and not rehashing the past. Over and over again.

[Dyeathrose]

I...wow, just...wow.

I honestly believed that was the one place Marvel would not go to; perhaps I gave them too much credit but, it feels like that's sacred grounds. What else can you possibly do to Uncle Ben? He's definately a fire in Peter's reasons for being Spider-man, so in essence he's always there, but...bringing him back? Even if it is temporary? Usually I try to stay laid back about those "life-altering, world shaking events" but...that just really takes the cake. Is there any real reason for Ben to return? Just to give May grief for dating Jarvis? I know nothing about this latest story with Future Hobgoblin, so I really can't say much, but...

The logic does not compute. I give comic science the benefit of almost any doubt, but this just doesn't remotely compute.

[Effect]

The thing isn't haven't we already seem something like this twice? There was that What If issue I think. Then there was House of M, the main storyline where Peter is awaken from Wanda's power to have all of his memories of growing up with Uncle Ben being alive, etc. Then there is the House of M Spider-man issues where he's alive and well there. We saw how Peter's life changed with Uncle Ben being alive, granted it was in a world rulled by Magento's family but still it was done.

Is there really a need to do it again? This one does seem like it could be being done just to give May grief over dating Jarvis which just seems wrong and stupid. Leave the woman alone seriously. She was already imagining he was with her when she had her converstations with him, let the woman live the rest of her life. As if she doesn't have enough to worry about with Peter being Spider-man and then the upcoming Civil War and the recent The Other situation.

Wasn't there a whole supporting cast of people when it comes to Spider-man. Where have they been lately?

[LarryLegend]

Supporting Cast

Harry: dead
Gwen: Dead
JJJ: Peter's a teacher so JJJ goes bye bye
Robbie: See above
Liz: Harry died and she seems to have fallen off the face of the earth
Ned Leeds: Dead
Betty: See reason for JJJ and the reason for Liz
Randy Robertson: Awol
Jill Stacy: Back in England
Paul Stacy: Back in England
Sha Shan: Limbo
Lance Bannon: Dead

[Dyeathrose]

Liz: Harry died and she seems to have fallen off the face of the earth

When was the last time Liz or Normie were around? I know she got the boot after Norman returned and took back Oscorp, but that's all I remember.

[Citizen_Kaine]

She was in the Paul Jenkins Peter Parker/Spectacular run. Haven't seen 616 Normie for a while though.....

[Captivated]

Yeah... just when May is starting to find happiness... :(

In taking a few deep breaths and thinking about it, this CAN NOT be a permanent change, and I don't think it will be. But, boy, it sure is going to mess with everyone's head. It could be touching... or just depressing and painful... like ripping open an old wound.

After the Vanessa story, which was a strange downer, I'm thinking it's probably going to be sad/bad. I really don't read Spider-Man to be depressed.

I know to be realistic, Peter and MJ have to have their share of troubles, but this is getting ridiculous... it's not that they can't pay the rent, it's that their home is burned down... and it's unending. Is it my imagination, or have they ramped up the torture on poor Spidey in the past 2 years?

I have a theory (it just popped into my head)... I think the editors and writers in some twisted way think Peter has to be TORTURED endlessly because he got back together with MJ...

Marvel Knight Spider-Man -
Aunt May kidnapped... Peter frantic, beaten within an inch of his life, forced to compromise his principles, betrayed, and on the verge of being defeated had MJ not made a phone call... not to mention the shock and horror at the bridge, yet again, seeing MJ dangling from the hands of the Goblin, who plans to kill her...

Sins Past -
Peter finds out that Gwen, his first real love and had cheated on him... getting skin to skin with his WORST enemy and bearing his children. She had months to tell him about it... and about her plan to have him raise the children, but she was killed before she could. He got to relive all that, with insult added to injury.

The Charlie Disaster -
Peter gets to have guilty flashbacks about how he mistreated a kid who was nerdier than himself... which eventually results in Peter, MJ and Aunt May losing both their homes and most all of their wordly belongings to a fire.

The Avengers/Hydra -
He gets a breather in this one... and a fun ride on a rocket full of anthrax. Of course, he realizes that something is not right, which is troubling...

The Other -
Peter finds out he is dying and there is nothing that can be done about it. Mental anguish all around on this one! Then he goes through the horror of being physically hurt worst than he's ever been hurt... defeated, maimed, and killed by Morlun. Then he has visions of a demonic looking spider-god(?) who tells him that he's just a pawn in the hands of mystic forces, and if he wants to live he better learn to like it. Talk about an identity crisis... Now, who the hell is he... what is true, what is just in his head, and who might be setting him up, yet again...

From what I've heard of the Civil War, Peter is going to have his life turned upside down, in new and creative ways... yeah, boy... can hardly wait. :(

[Calcinator]

This book sucks.

Spidey vs...um..."wrestler-guy": Pass.

Return of "Jack-ass Flash Thompson: Pass.

Return of....um..."Future Hoboblin-guy": Pass.

Now the return of Uncle Ben?

Quite frankly, i'm too bored with this nonsense to be "SHOCKED" anymore.

You know, somewhere (i.e. the offices of DC Comics) Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, Brad Meltzer, and Mark Waid, are looking at this crap and just laughing their collective asses off.
haha
I actually like this man

[Demogoblin]

Spider Girl?

Spider Girl anyone?

Aunt May is dead, Baby May is alive, Kaine is still here :up:, and The Real Hobgoblin as well, not to mention consistant quality month after month and respect for a characters history. And of course my personal favorite Spidey writer Tom Defalco

or you could read the other Spider Man What If? series, you know, the one featuring Iron Man's sidekick, Stingers, Mexican Wrestling, Uncle Ben and the villians from 2099 :o

A-friggin-men.

Unless they kill Uncle Ben in this story post haste, even I will be forced to drop ASM.

[Demogoblin]

When was the last time Liz or Normie were around? I know she got the boot after Norman returned and took back Oscorp, but that's all I remember.

Liz was last seen in the "Venomous" storyline in 2004. Normie hasnt been seen since ASM #25 in 2001.

[CrimeMaster!]

Alot of what Marvel is doing with Spider-Man hasn't impressed me,I will see how this story plays out when I read it before judging it.

PAD is one writer I trust after reading his 12 year Hulk run plus his short Spider-Man stint in the 80s which turned out the classic Death Of Jean Dewolf among others.

I guess he was right when he said a while back that issue 7 would light up the internet crowd .

Though after reading Spider-Girl 97 which was great,Im upset its not the original Hobgoblin coming back in the 616 Marvel.

[Grim Goblin]

:eek: Wow, ok so...Hobgoblin 2211 and uncle Ben....:rolleyes: riiiiiiight, that's a good idea. :(

Damn! And here I thought I only had to wait until Civil War was done before judging if 616 Spidey was worth buying again...Guess not.

I can't believe Marvel would have stooped so low...even after the crap they fed us with The Other.

[Grim Goblin]

While I think it's safe to say that Joe.Q is a real a**hole for continuously pulling these f***ing stunts, I blame the "collectors" even more for encouraging him to keep doing it.

I've got one question for those "collectors", what the f*** is it going to take for you people to open your eyes and take a stand? I mean, we're being force-fed this thrash month-in and month-out and we're all sick of it and yet you people keep going back for your monthly dose of ****!!!

Seriously, what is it going to take? You had Sins Past, Sins Remembered, approximately two years of totem-mystic-crap to react and still you go back. Yeah you're all pissed about the ****ty stories but YOU STILL GO BACK FOR MORE!!! And now they're bringing uncle Ben back and you know what?...As much as you're going to b**** about it when it happens, your going to stick around and "pray that it gets better". WTF does Marvel need to do to 616 Spidey before you've had enough???

I can understand not wanting to have gaps in your collections but dammit, buy the Goddamn back issues and show Joe.Q that he can't keep spitting in the fans' face and get away with it! 'Cause until you take a stand, the madness will go on...and you guys will be directly responsible!

[hulkamania85]

I think people may be overreacting a bit. It's about someone screwing up the timeline. What's to say that this won't go back to status quo when the arc is all said and done? Uncle Ben's ressurection probably won't be permanent.

With that being said it's still gimmicky, hopefully Peter David can make it work.

[Captivated]

[tongue in cheek] I have another item to add to my list of Spidey torture... His balloon was damaged in the Macy's Day parade and never replaced. :eek: There is NO Spider-Man balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade! I mean, what is the world coming to?! [/tongue in cheek]

But at least there is action you can take to right this wrong...

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8174205&postcount=1

http://www.petitiononline.com/mrvl2099/petition.html

[Grim Goblin]

I get what you're saying hulkamania85, but what pisses me off is that the story isn't only gimmicky, it's senseless and yet more harmful for 616 Spidey.

First of all, after reading the previews for June's issue, it mentions that this Hobgoblin has already killed the Spider-Men of latter ages. So coming back in time to make Peter quit being Spidey, in order to prevent his example from creating more spideys make absolutely no sense. He already killed the other ones so why bother?

Secondly, a lot of fans were expecting the original Hobgoblin to come back after PAD's comments and we get this lame rip-off instead. We already had a perfectly good Hobby (actually two if you count the one from Secret War) that are still fresh and full of potential but instead we're stuck with Hobgoblin from the year 2211. what a waste!

And I can't see how uncle Ben's revival can be helpfull either. I mean his death was the catalyst for Peter's super-hero career but it was the lesson it thought him that sealed the deal (with great power yadda yadda....). So ok, let's say Ben's back. Is Peter supposed to quit being Spider-Man because his uncle is no longer dead? Is the lesson Ben's death taught him no longer valid?
in fact it would be the total opposite. instead of remembering Ben's words about power & responsability, he'd get it straight from the horse's mouth accompanied by a slap in the back of the head whenever he gets one of his "Spider-Man no more" moods.

and if Ben dies again what does that teach Peter ? I'd say that at that point he should logicaly say "the hell with this" and poke his brains out with his stingers but it's a comic so that won't happen. and what about May? Another guilt trip for moving on with her life. Another depression for losing Ben again?

No my friend, this idea just plainly sucks!

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

I don't know how I'd react to Uncle Ben coming back. That's saying something because I've stuck through thick and thin with Spidey....I hope it's not true.


I'm speechless. :(

[The Infernal]

When I first heard about the HobGoblin from the future I knew the story surrounding it wouldn't be that great. I just hope they put the timeline back to what it was quickly.

[Dragon]

The one silver lining in this that I can see is that perhaps Hobgoblin killing the other Spider-Men is Marvel's attempt to close the book on the totem thing.

.....Maybe.

Not the best solution, as this would be explaining it was a hoax to begin with.

[Len N. Wallace]

If my eyes could roll out of my skull right now, they would. You people are the most overreactionary bunch of fanboys I've ever encountered. Wait for the book to come out before taking a blind leap into these conclusions.

This is Peter David we're talking about. The guy is notorious for screwing with readers heads. He's been doing it for years and everything about this Uncle Ben thing smacks of a Peter David "Oh man, I'm gonna totally piss off the fanboys before making them love me again" moments.

EVERYTHING about this Uncle Ben return is just screaming hoax. Even if he does come back, it'll probably be for the sum total of the whole arc, before he's revealed to be a goddamn robot or something, and then eeeeeeverything will go back to just like it was and you'll all still find something to spit bile about. If you don't like something, DON'T FRIGGIN' BUY IT! Come back when there's a creative team you'll actually like. You'll have an extra three dollars in your pocket and spend it on something else that will make you happy... Like candy bars! Everyone loves candy bars.

[spidey-dude]

maybe pete has to go back in time to stop the future hobgoblin who is back in time from killing ben, thus the price for setting things right is losing uncle ben again????

[CaptainStacy]

If my eyes could roll out of my skull right now, they would. You people are the most overreactionary bunch of fanboys I've ever encountered. Wait for the book to come out before taking a blind leap into these conclusions.

This is Peter David we're talking about. The guy is notorious for screwing with readers heads. He's been doing it for years and everything about this Uncle Ben thing smacks of a Peter David "Oh man, I'm gonna totally piss off the fanboys before making them love me again" moments.

EVERYTHING about this Uncle Ben return is just screaming hoax. Even if he does come back, it'll probably be for the sum total of the whole arc, before he's revealed to be a goddamn robot or something, and then eeeeeeverything will go back to just like it was and you'll all still find something to spit bile about. If you don't like something, DON'T FRIGGIN' BUY IT! Come back when there's a creative team you'll actually like. You'll have an extra three dollars in your pocket and spend it on something else that will make you happy... Like candy bars! Everyone loves candy bars.

That's good advice, and that's exactly what im doing. This book can sit on the shelf and rot. Id rather invest my three bucks in something more interesting.

Also; i think the point is going over your head somewhat. I don't presume to speak for everyone, but i think there's little doubt in our minds that this will be a hoax or a robot, or whatever...there by wasting everyone's time...i think a lot of us are just tired of the Spidey writers "screwing with our heads" and "turning Peter Parker's life upside-down" and just want to read good, entertaining, exciting stories.

Certainly the "GREAT" Peter David can still deliver on that level, but right now, he's apparently suffering from writer's block.

[Len N. Wallace]

That's good advice, and that's exactly what im doing. This book can sit on the shelf and rot. Id rather invest my three bucks in something more interesting.

Also; i think the point is going over your head somewhat. I don't presume to speak for everyone, but i think there's little doubt in our minds that this will be a hoax or a robot, or whatever...there by wasting everyone's time...i think a lot of us are just tired of the Spidey writers "screwing with our heads" and "turning Peter Parker's life upside-down" and just want to read good, entertaining, exciting stories.

Certainly the "GREAT" Peter David can still deliver on that level, but right now, he's apparently suffering from writer's block.Excluding The Other, David's last two issues have been massively entertaining to me. Issue 5 has been one of the best Spider-Man stories I've read since Paul Jenkins early run on PP:SM.

[ReaperFett]

You really think the actual Uncle Ben will appear unhyped in the 2nd 616 Spidey book?




Certainly the "GREAT" Peter David can still deliver on that level, but right now, he's apparently suffering from writer's block.
Or maybe he is writing a good, entertaining story? Have you read this book yet? Or the issues after?

[CaptainStacy]

You really think the actual Uncle Ben will appear unhyped in the 2nd 616 Spidey book?




Or maybe he is writing a good, entertaining story? Have you read this book yet? Or the issues after?

Have YOU?

I have as much right to form a negative opinion on the soliscit as you do to form a positive one.

In my opinion, there has been one decent issue in the series so far.

Here's an idea;

Why not fix the jumbled mess that is the continuity of Mysterio? We currently have TWO people laying claim to the mantle, and nothing interesting is being done

Or hey; how about taking great Lee/Ditko/Romita creations like Vulture, Rhino, and Shocker, and making them legitimate threats to Spider-Man again, instead of keeping them as walking jokes throughout the Marvel Universe. Cannon fodder, for Spidey and other heroes to spar with until the "REAL" villain of the story shows up.

And wouldn't it be GREAT if we eventually found out who, exactly, FACADE was?

But no. Instead, the "GREAT" Peter David has decided to "Shock" and "Get inside our heads", with a lovely time travelling Uncle Ben tale.

ENJOY!

[Flonk]

Of course, PAD can do no wrong. He's th' man. He's th' most awesomest Spidey writer ever who will restore Spidey's good name!

And that's what you yackasses get fer praising a title BEFORE IT EVEN COMES OUT!

Said the guy who's bashing a book before it comes out.:rolleyes:

[Grim Goblin]

If my eyes could roll out of my skull right now, they would. You people are the most overreactionary bunch of fanboys I've ever encountered. Wait for the book to come out before taking a blind leap into these conclusions.

This is Peter David we're talking about. The guy is notorious for screwing with readers heads. He's been doing it for years and everything about this Uncle Ben thing smacks of a Peter David "Oh man, I'm gonna totally piss off the fanboys before making them love me again" moments.

EVERYTHING about this Uncle Ben return is just screaming hoax. Even if he does come back, it'll probably be for the sum total of the whole arc, before he's revealed to be a goddamn robot or something, and then eeeeeeverything will go back to just like it was and you'll all still find something to spit bile about. If you don't like something, DON'T FRIGGIN' BUY IT! Come back when there's a creative team you'll actually like. You'll have an extra three dollars in your pocket and spend it on something else that will make you happy... Like candy bars! Everyone loves candy bars.

First of all, I already mentionned that I'm not buying the books. Secondly, praising someone because of past accomplishments instead of judging the present work is also a "fanboy" thing so think about that before using that term as an insult. Nothing against PAD but just because he dropped some gold in the past doesn't mean that this story will be any good.

And frankly, it doesn't matter if Ben is a clone, robot, or the real thing. it's effect on Peter & May would still be the same (robot parents anyone?) you feel like having more of the "Parker is gone, I am Spider" crap? be my guess but it annoys me 'cause it means yet more time to waste until the books are good enough for me to invest money on.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Who's bashin' th' book, Flonk? Just rubbin' people's noses in it based on their reactions is all. All I ever did was warn people to NOT sing a book's praises before th' first issue even came out just 'cause it's a guy who USED to write Spidey good.

[Flonk]

Who's bashin' th' book, Flonk? Just rubbin' people's noses in it based on their reactions is all. All I ever did was warn people to NOT sing a book's praises before th' first issue even came out just 'cause it's a guy who USED to write Spidey good.

Wh- why are you typing like you're Wolverine? That's just weird. Anyways, I've found PAD's Spider-Man to be quite good. Yes, he even managed to do a good job with his part of The Other. I just think it's funny that you're yelling at people for praising a book before it comes out, when you are bashing the book before it comes out. And PAD has had 5 issues to prove that he knows what he is doing with modern Spidey. You're coming accross as an angry fanboy with a Wolverine fetish who is just looking for something to complain about.

[ReaperFett]

Have YOU?

I have as much right to form a negative opinion on the soliscit as you do to form a positive one.
I haven't formed an opinion. I'll read it first :)

[Captivated]

Wh- why are you typing like you're Wolverine? That's just weird. Anyways, I've found PAD's Spider-Man to be quite good. Yes, he even managed to do a good job with his part of The Other. I just think it's funny that you're yelling at people for praising a book before it comes out, when you are bashing the book before it comes out. And PAD has had 5 issues to prove that he knows what he is doing with modern Spidey. You're coming accross as an angry fanboy with a Wolverine fetish who is just looking for something to complain about.Uh... did you know that you're coming across as cluelessly confrontational? Aren't you a little new here to be stepping on toes you don't know...

Most people are not saying the story IS going to suck... just expressing skeptism. But, sometimes, from the details you do know, you have a good idea... For example, if I know a story is going to be about Spider-man making out with his dead girlfriend, Gwen... I don't HAVE to read it to have a prediction about my enjoyment level of said story.

PAD is hit and miss, so who knows... but, bringing back Uncle Ben... hard to know HOW this can be a good thing, even temporarily. But, may-be he'll surprize us. I'll be reading and hoping for the best.

[Captivated]

The one silver lining in this that I can see is that perhaps Hobgoblin killing the other Spider-Men is Marvel's attempt to close the book on the totem thing.

.....Maybe.

Not the best solution, as this would be explaining it was a hoax to begin with.
It's hard to understand why PAD just seem to be trying to shove more of that totem crap, a la JMS, down our throats here. :(

But, that is my dream story... undoing the totem-mystic changes to his origin.

Yes... it was all a hoax. May-be the "mystical" forces that Dr. Stange eluded to when he said Peter's illness was part of a "curse," turn out to be deceiving him about all this crap. They want him to believe his life was preordained by some two-bit spider-god, who he is now beholden to... but it is just another plot to control/ruin Spidey. And it too shall be revealed and fail.

Think JMS will aid in it's destruction, or will he

[Dyeathrose]

Thank you Citizen_Kaine and Demogoblin; I do miss the supporting characters of Spider-man, I wish they might be brought back and do something instead of just kind of drop from the face of the earth or just show up as a quick plot convience.

[OtepApe]

I have to be honest, this idea is so ridiculous that I don't believe it. I think this is just a way of screwing around with us. If it's so that Uncle Ben does make an appearence, then it'll be like for an issue or two and then he's gone again.

Marvel won't bring back Uncle Ben to a main Spidey role...will they? :(

Damn, now bringing back Bucky just popped into my head.

[Flonk]

PAD is hit and miss, so who knows... but, bringing back Uncle Ben... hard to know HOW this can be a good thing, even temporarily. But, may-be he'll surprize us. I'll be reading and hoping for the best.

IF it is Uncle Ben and not some robot/clone/halucination/Chameleon/actor/alien/any number of things it has just as much chance of being a good story as it does a bad one. And since Peter David usualy writes a good story, I've got no reason to think this one will be different.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

First off, Flunk, PAD didn't even write every issue of FNSM that came out; a couple were done by th' other Other writers.

Second, what I'm sayin' is you can like a writer based on past perfomance, BUT, based on recent works by such "greats" as Claremont an' Miller an' reactions to said stories, past performance is NOT an indication of how good they'll still be.

Third, I HAVEN'T BASHED THE ****ING BOOK! If you bothered to READ A ****ING THING I POST, you'd see I said that I WARNED people not to get such a high opinion about a title that didn't come out yet back before #1 even hit stands, just fer th' reasons an' feelings bein' expressed in this thread, and fer th' reasons Captivated stated in response to you.

We clear now, rookie?

[Flonk]

Damn, now bringing back Bucky just popped into my head.

Perfect example. It sounds awful, but the story was incredibly well written, and it made sense. It makes Bucky a man out of time, just like Cap. That was a great story. I think I'll re read it tonight.

[Flonk]

First off, Flunk, PAD didn't even write every issue of FNSM that came out; a couple were done by th' other Other writers.

Second, what I'm sayin' is you can like a writer based on past perfomance, BUT, based on recent works by such "greats" as Claremont an' Miller an' reactions to said stories, past performance is NOT an indication of how good they'll still be.

Third, I HAVEN'T BASHED THE ****ING BOOK! If you bothered to READ A ****ING THING I POST, you'd see I said that I WARNED people not to get such a high opinion about a title that didn't come out yet back before #1 even hit stands, just fer th' reasons an' feelings bein' expressed in this thread, and fer th' reasons Captivated stated in response to you.

We clear now, rookie?

Sure thing, bub. :rolleyes:

[OtepApe]

Perfect example. It sounds awful, but the story was incredibly well written, and it made sense. It makes Bucky a man out of time, just like Cap. That was a great story. I think I'll re read it tonight.

Just because the story is good in one, doesn't mean it's good in another. Bringing back Jason Todd over in Batman, I didn't care for it myself. It depends on the character, and how it's written.

I personally don't want to see Uncle Ben back. Captain America was a hero before his death, Batman was a hero before Jason's death, the whole reason Spidey is a hero is because of Uncle Ben's death. What happens when that's taken away???

[Flonk]

Just because the story is good in one, doesn't mean it's good in another. Bringing back Jason Todd over in Batman, I didn't care for it myself. It depends on the character, and how it's written.
Good point. I didn't care for Jason's return either. (And the reason he came back was laughably bad) But that's kinda what I'm saying. The quality of the story depends on the writer, not the plot. If Chuck Austen had wrote Macbeth, no one would be reading it today.

I personally don't want to see Uncle Ben back. Captain America was a hero before his death, Batman was a hero before Jason's death, the whole reason Spidey is a hero is because of Uncle Ben's death. What happens when that's taken away???

Yes, what would happen when that's taken away? What an interesting story that could be.;)

[OtepApe]

Good point. I didn't care for Jason's return either. (And the reason he came back was laughably bad) But that's kinda what I'm saying. The quality of the story depends on the writer, not the plot. If Chuck Austen had wrote Macbeth, no one would be reading it today.



Yes, what would happen when that's taken away? What an interesting story that could be.;)

Again, a one stroke story. The intial return could make for an interesting story, but then what happens when that wears off???

Now I honestly think Spidey fans are an easy bunch to please. Really, we just want the writers to stay true to the character. And we only want three people to remain dead, because their deaths had a massive impact on Spidey. Gwen, Harry AND Uncle Ben.

The writers are intelligent people. They can come up with an abundance of ideas for Spidey. They don't have to bring people back from the dead all the time.

When a story lacks substance and may make for an explosive situation initially, what happens when the smoke clears and the debris is shifted??? They have to make sure what they are left with can carry on and not wither and die faster then a snail after salt has been poured on it. Marvel have only been thinking about the short term when it comes to Spidey lately, they haven't really thought if their ideas can hold up in the long term.

[Themanofbat]

Have YOU?

I have as much right to form a negative opinion on the soliscit as you do to form a positive one.

In my opinion, there has been one decent issue in the series so far.

Here's an idea;

Why not fix the jumbled mess that is the continuity of Mysterio? We currently have TWO people laying claim to the mantle, and nothing interesting is being done

Or hey; how about taking great Lee/Ditko/Romita creations like Vulture, Rhino, and Shocker, and making them legitimate threats to Spider-Man again, instead of keeping them as walking jokes throughout the Marvel Universe. Cannon fodder, for Spidey and other heroes to spar with until the "REAL" villain of the story shows up.

And wouldn't it be GREAT if we eventually found out who, exactly, FACADE was?

But no. Instead, the "GREAT" Peter David has decided to "Shock" and "Get inside our heads", with a lovely time travelling Uncle Ben tale.

ENJOY!

Well, to be fair, the "GREAT" Peter David may be under the directive of a higher power to tell such tales, and you're terrific aforementioned suggestions may unfortunately be on the back-burner.

:(

[Themanofbat]

I personally don't want to see Uncle Ben back. Captain America was a hero before his death, Batman was a hero before Jason's death, the whole reason Spidey is a hero is because of Uncle Ben's death. What happens when that's taken away???

Hence, the reason for the story. We get to examine (yet again... :rolleyes: ) Spidey's "raison d'etre".

:(

I wanna read a good Scorpion story.

:( :( :(

[LarryLegend]

Is Flonk a Marvel plant or just trying to piss people off?

[LarryLegend]

TMOB, good point about directives from the higher ups.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Eh, he's entitled to his opinion as long as he's arguin' against somethin' that was actually SAID.

[OtepApe]

Hence, the reason for the story. We get to examine (yet again... :rolleyes: ) Spidey's "raison d'etre".

:(

I wanna read a good Scorpion story.

:( :( :(

I have been waiting a long time for one to come along, it's not going to happen whilst 'Scorpem' is around I fear.

[Rez]

TMOB, OtepApe, what's the matter?

The brilliant Scorpem isn't good enough? ;)

[stillanerd]

You know, I was reading the thread over at comicboards.com where this spoiler was posted and naturally Peter David is pissed. In fact, when he blasted the guy for posting the revealation about Uncle Ben, he cited how the word has gotten out to comicbookresources.com as well. And since I was the one who posted the news over there, I felt so guilty that I ended up writing a letter of saying I was sorry. Maybe it's because I could sympathize with him as a writer. Maybe it was because my initial shock over the news has worn down somewhat. Even so, I still felt I owed him an apology.

But I still think bringing Uncle Ben back alive and well, even if it is only temporary, seems like a really bad move on his part, IMHO (at least in ASM #500 when JMS did it, he was still dead, technically). After all, we've had Jason Todd, Bucky, and now this? Hey, there's an idea...a comic book story in which Death itself has died and everybody who was dead comes back and no one can die, just to show how absurd the revolving door of death in comics have actually become.

[The Lizard]

This needs to be reposted on every page of this thread: http://www.samruby.com/OtherTitles/WhatIf/Whatif46.gif

I really wish that What If..? would come back, so that there would be an outlet for this type of lamebrained storyline other than the major Spidey titles.

[Citizen_Kaine]

And to hell with fans who judge without reading and to fans who blow carefully crafted and timed stories with precipitous reveals, for no other reason than to destroy comics and make it impossible for writers to do their job.

Movies and TV, here I come.

Goddamn what a little *****

[Citizen_Kaine]

This needs to be reposted on every page of this thread: http://www.samruby.com/OtherTitles/WhatIf/Whatif46.gif

I really wish that What If..? would come back, so that there would be an outlet for this type of lamebrained storyline other than the major Spidey titles.

Maybe my favorite What If? Story other that What If? Starring Spider Man!? (What If? 105) and What If? Punisher killed Daredevil (What If? 26)

http://www.spiderfan.org/cgi-bin/cover.pl?80123,what_if_one_shots,aunt_may_died.jpg

What an original idea David! :o

[The Lizard]

^ That was a good story. Actually, that whole one-shot What If series was quite good.

[stillanerd]

Goddamn what a little *****

Well, to be fair, I can sympathize, and did apologize to him for playing my part. Even so, the internet is not entirely to blame for ruining comics. The writers usually do that themselves.

BTW, just how many What If Uncle Ben was alive stories have we had anyway? I mean, along with the one you posted, you can also count ASM #500 with Uncle Ben's apperance, Spider-Man: House of M, and now this one--all of which happened within roughly TWO YEARS TIME.

[Citizen_Kaine]

Meh, I always though the ones released after Volume 1 ended were way too small to tell such stories. They always went really really quickly by and never really got into the whole What If? Idea (With the few exceptions of the ones mentioned above, and The one where the Punisher hooks up with the Symbiote)

[Citizen_Kaine]

Well, to be fair, I can sympathize, and did apologize to him for playing my part. Even so, the internet is not entirely to blame for ruining comics. The writers usually do that themselves.

BTW, just how many What If Uncle Ben was alive stories have we had anyway? I mean, along with the one you posted, you can also count ASM #500 with Uncle Ben's apperance, Spider-Man: House of M, and now this one--all of which happened within roughly TWO YEARS TIME.

He also showed up in Paul Jenkins last issue of Spectacular

[stillanerd]

^^^
Well, technically, that was Peter talking to himself and possibly imagining Ben was there, but yeah...

BTW. The What If with Punisher bonding with the symbiote just kicked so much ass. :up:

[Citizen_Kaine]

Now THAT What If with Punisher bonding with the symbiote just kicked ass.

Agreed, his "bullets", wings, and claws before Carnage was even dreamed of was very very cool

Unfortunatly Marvel ripped that idea off me along with the Thunderbolts :(

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Punvenom.gif

[LarryLegend]

Peter David does seem to cry foul alot. A bit sensitive me thinks.

[Dragon]

Peter David does seem to cry foul alot. A bit sensitive me thinks.

That's why he loves to go to Comic Boards. They kiss his ass like it was Angelina Jolie's lips. And woe be unto anyone who actually disagrees with him.

[TheWhiteSpider]

The following post contains expressions of disgust, frustration, and citations of rampant stupidity. Reader discretion is advised.

Damn. That's the entirety of my response in a nutshell. Damn.

Due to my heavy workload my next post was supposed to be another round in an engaging philosophical debate with Stillanerd. Now I pop in to find this. This to-be-expected slap in the face to Marvel's legacy, Spidey's history, and the hundreds of readers that have been the backbone of the Spider-Man franchise that grew from those 12 cent comics way back when -- into the billion dollar juggernaut it is today. I guess I should throw in a "should this be what it seems" to placate the "It's may not even be the real Ben" and "Wait until you read the issue" crowd. Never say I'm unreasonable.

Now, as for the Marvel execs, I'm disgusted with your fanboy pandering to writers who:
a) Have a 'name' that can draw headlines in Wizard magazine and on Newsarama.com
b) Had a successful-in-syndication T.V. show, or genre specific motion picture releases in the early '90s
c) Had a hit run on a comic series [or stand-alone] in the last 15 years.

Your writers have developed a self righteous attitude towards readers, the source material, and fundamental elements of what defines comics in general. This attitude is either cultivated or encouraged from the top down.
A lot has been said about how traditional fans of comics have hurt the industry. We've "poisoned the well for new readers with online diatribes, caused characters to stagnate by hating change, and refused to grow up because we don't understand the difference between 'good stories' and 'nostalgic tales.'"

You want the ironic truth, Marvel management? You're the fanboys.
You are the ones who have gotten so hot under the collar over the prospects of working with creators like JMS, that you've decided his version of the nature and life of a character like Gwen Stacy trumps the basic understanding of her, penned by writers acclaimed for their contributions to the art of comics, who laid the foundation you stand on -- because: "OMG! It's the guy who made Babylon 5!" (Excerpted from an after hours meeting in Marvel's E-I-C's office)*

You've concluded that the idea of Spider-Man being the product of ancient mystical lineage is equal or greater to the pre-2005 origin of the character, known worldwide, that borders on modern mythology -- because: "I mean, he even wrote some episodes of He-Man! How f**** cool is that?!" (Excerpted from cell phone recordings of Joey Quesada)*

Peter David is allowed to take up pages of a paid literary work to continue his online debate with comic book fans -- because: "Dude. He wrote the death of Jean De Wolfe, aaand he can get us at least a couple of write ups per month in the comic mags." (Excerpted from an Outlook Express account on a Marvel Executive's discarded laptop)*

Spider-Man can be brutally ripped to shreds on panel, with no thought to the thousands of children who follow the character's exploits, or his fans that don't hail from the "Mortal Kombat" school of pop culture -- because: "We maintain the highest quality in talent across the entertainment industry. The writer/director of House Party, for example, has been among our staple of creators in recent times." (Taken from a Marvel press release recently discovered on Yahoo.com)*


In all seriousness I take issue. I absolutely take issue with the predominate policies at Marvel comics over the last few years. We're lambasted for not desiring change, but it's OK for your writers to change practically every defining aspect of a character? We're poisoning the atmosphere in the industry with our online messages, but it's OK for writers to use the actual stories to launch counterpoints in real life arguments? You can't see why we have a problem with people making, according to their own comments, permanent changes to certain aspects of a character's mythos -- when those in question have a hard time keeping track of whether May Parker is Peter's Aunt or his Mother; better yet, when they want to retcon his Aunt into being his Mother?

You know what your problem is Marvel? What makes you different than the caretakers of the legacies of other literary works and tomes throughout the ages? It's that there is no respect in your halls for the work that established the characters you control and the offices you control them from -- or the spirit of what thoses works hoped to convey. Who's asking you to hold by every statement written in every issue that ever existed? I haven't seen such a person anywhere. It's when you trod on the spirit, premise and context of Spider-Man's stories, for example, that you make yourself appear to be self righteous opportunists who are more interested in writing your John Hancock on the character than actually telling good, character driven stories.


Part Two: The Amazing Nobody

Peter Parker, a lonely but brilliant teen was bitten by an accidentally radiated spider at an exhibition he attended due to his love of science.
Except he wasn't. Peter Parker, a lonely teen with an uncanny potential to be a hunter in an age-old lineage of spider-men, was driven by fate to gain the mystical power transferred to him by an agent of the spider-god. Oops!

Peter Parker, young, rash, and in pursuit of fame, failed to act -- contributing to the death of his beloved uncle, birthing a guilt that fuels an ever-burning drive to protect the innocent and never let death claim another's life through inaction. Except he didn't.*** His uncle was always alive, watching from the shadows (probably sharing a cup o' joe with Judas Traveler and Scrier #616).
Oops!

Peter Parker's first true love was Gwen Stacy. A sweet, also brilliant student at his university, and ever her father's daughter. Anyone could see how in love they were and how devoted to each other, until tragedy claimed Gwen's life.
Except they weren't. Gwen, as much as she cared for Peter, couldn't resist the pull of a certain man's powerful green mojo. Oops!

Peter Parker dons a costume and becomes the most colorful, spectacular crimefighter ever. Struggling to make ends meet, Spider-Man
allows Peter to counter the schemes of nefarious foes while protecting his secret identity and allowing him to maintain some semblance of normal life.
But not for long.**

Peter Parker may reveal his identity to the masses in order to support his friend, boss and commander -- Iron Man. Having recently become Iron Man's ward, blood brother and part time accountant at Stark Industries, Peter Parker no longer needs a secret identity, as all his loved ones will soon be fitted with Iron Man armours and taught to travel the wondrous currents of time! Don't miss: Mary & May: Featuring the Temporal Tempests, hitting shelves in Jan. '07.

I could on with this but I'll spare us all. [Looking forward to the thanks.]
The bottomline is, you make the events of Amazing Fantasy #15 into
a fantasy themselves, and you've got the adventures of the Amazing Nobody.


Part Three: Corporate Hyprocrisy

"He's the same as always!"

We are consistently being fed the line that Peter Parker is the same as always. This from the people who killed Peter Parker, introduced mysticism into his storylines, gave him uncharacteristic powers, and feature him gliding around as his primary means of travel. The focal point of all these things being a crossover called: The Other. Psst.. Marvel, I might think something's different about Spidey if the head writer asks me if he's: "one or The Other,"
in a "life changing" arc with the same name. A friendly public service announcement from The White-Spider.

"Spider-Man is still driven by the same motivations!"
Mm-hmm. We'll see Mr. David, we'll see.

Stop unfairly labeling Gwen! Everyone makes mistakes!

This from the geniuses that titled the storyline: Sins Past.
Maybe that's not what they meant. What's this you say?
They followed it up with: Sins Remembered?
'Nuff said.

Spider-Man's Marriage, Baby, Wealth, Lack of Acne is ruining him,
and making him unrelatable!
And.. forcing him to bury a child, blowing up his wife, making him an Avenger, transforming him into a kid brother figure for other characters, and making him the Sensational Spider-Man.. of this generation... helps me identify with him much better. Thanks Marvel!

"Spider-Man's traditional readers are fixated on the past and can't accept growth or development!"
Ahem. Who keeps dreaming of taking Spidey back to his swingin',
motorcycle riding, leather jacket wearing days? Marvel hasn't accepted the growth and development Spider-Man has experienced the last 20 years. Are they in any position to complain about the fact that I don't like the direction the stories have taken for the last 10?

Part Four: If That's How You Feel, You're No Spider-Man Fan!

Like hell I'm not. I've watched Peter Parker cocoon himself and discard his humanity. Twice. And I came back. I've watched him backhand his pregnant wife and hunt her down in a murderous rage. And I came back. I've seen him declared a clone and become a flunky to a psychopath. And I came back. How long can you hate what you're paying to read before you realize that it's not worth the financial and emotional investment anymore? I'll soon know the answer, it seems.

Bring back Ben, Marvel, and I'm finished. No 616, no Ultimate, no nothing until you restore the mythology and decide to actually use it as the basis of your stories, for once.


* These are not actual excerpts from the materials cited. They are my feeble
attempts at being "cute."
** It has not been confirmed that Spider-Man will reveal his I.D. during Civil War, and only an arrogant bastich would wholeheartedly believe, without a doubt, that this is what Marvel plans to do. I am one such bastich.
*** Take the above, apply it to uncle Ben, and add "supremely" before arrogant.

[CaptainStacy]

I haven't formed an opinion. I'll read it first :)

Indeed? Well, you were certainly quick to defend a proposed storyline that you say you "haven't formed an opinion on" yet, but.....ok.

[stillanerd]

That's why he loves to go to Comic Boards. They kiss his ass like it was Angelina Jolie's lips. And woe be unto anyone who actually disagrees with him.

Or any current writer who happens to be working on a character they love. It's amazing to me how, no matter how lously an idea that comes out, most of those posters always offer a variation of the "wait and see." Then when it actually is as bad as some have claimed, they then say it was the greatest thing they ever read/seen. Case in point: "The Other: Evolve or Die" which, by all accounts, while not a commerical failure, was still a criticial failure.

The following post contains expressions of disgust, frustration, and citations of rampant stupidity. Reader discretion is advised.

Damn. That's the entirety of my response in a nutshell. Damn.

Due to my heavy workload my next post was supposed to be another round in an engaging philosophical debate with Stillanerd. Now I pop in to find this. This to-be-expected slap in the face to Marvel's legacy, Spidey's history, and the hundreds of readers that have been the backbone of the Spider-Man franchise that grew from those 12 cent comics way back when -- into the billion dollar juggernaut it is today. I guess I should throw in a "should this be what it seems" to placate the "It's may not even be the real Ben" and "Wait until you read the issue" crowd. Never say I'm unreasonable.

Now, as for the Marvel execs, I'm disgusted with your fanboy pandering to writers who:
a) Have a 'name' that can draw headlines in Wizard magazine and Newsarama.com
b) Had a successful-in-syndication T.V. show, or genre specific motion picture releases in the early '90s
c) Had a hit run on a comic series [or stand-alone] in the last 15 years.

Your writers have developed a self righteous attitude towards readers, the source material, and fundamental elements of what defines comics in general. This attitude is either cultivated or encouraged from the top down.
A lot has been said about how traditional fans of comics have hurt the industry. We've "poisoned the well for new readers with online diatribes, caused characters to stagnate by hating change, and refused to grow up because we don't understand the difference between 'good stories' and 'nostalgic tales.'"

You want the ironic truth, Marvel management? You're the fanboys.
You are the ones who have gotten so hot under the collar over the prospects of working with creators like JMS, that you've decided his version of the nature and life of a character like Gwen Stacy trumps the basic understanding of her, penned by writers acclaimed for their contributions to the art of comics, who laid the foundation you stand on -- because: "OMG! It's the guy who made Babylon 5!" (Excerpted from an after hours meeting in Marvel's E-I-C's office)*

You've concluded that the idea of Spider-Man being the product of ancient mystical lineage is equal or greater to the pre-2005 origin of the character, known worldwide, that borders on modern mythology -- because: "I mean, he even wrote some episodes of He-Man! How f**** cool is that?!" (Excerpted from cell phone recordings of Joey Quesada)*

Peter David is allowed to take up pages of a paid literary work to continue his online debate with comic book fans -- because: "Dude. He wrote the death of Jean De Wolfe, aaand he can get us at least a couple of write ups per month in the comic mags." (Excerpted from an Outlook Express account on a Marvel Executive's discarded laptop)*

Spider-Man can be brutally ripped to shreds on panel, with no thought to the thousands of children who follow the character's exploits, or his fans that don't hail from the "Mortal Kombat" school of pop culture -- because: "We maintain the highest quality in talent across the entertainment industry. The writer/director of House Party, for example, has been among our staple of creators in recent times." (Taken from a Marvel press release recently discovered on Yahoo.com)*


In all seriousness I take issue. I absolutely take issue with the predominate policies at Marvel comics over the last few years. We're lambasted for not desiring change, but it's OK for your writers to change practically every defining aspect of a character? We're poisoning the atmosphere in the industry with our online messages, but it's OK for writers to use the actual stories to launch counterpoints in real life arguments? You can't see why we have a problem with people making, according to their own comments, permanent changes to certain aspects of a character's mythos -- when those in question have a hard time keeping track of whether May Parker is Peter's Aunt or his Mother; better yet, when they want to retcon his Aunt into being his Mother?

You know what your problem is Marvel? What makes you different than the caretakers of the legacies of other literary works and tomes throughout the ages? It's that there is no respect in your halls for the work that established the characters you control and the offices you control them from -- or the spirit of what thoses works hoped to convey. Who's asking you to hold by every statement written in every issue that ever existed? I haven't seen such a person anywhere. It's when you trod on the spirit, premise and context of Spider-Man's stories, for example, that you make yourself appear to be self righteous opportunists who are more interested in writing your John Hancock on the character than actually telling good, character driven stories.


Part Two: The Amazing Nobody

Peter Parker, a lonely but brilliant teen was bitten by an accidentally radiated spider at an exhibition he attended due to his love of science.
- Except he wasn't. Peter Parker, a lonely teen with an uncanny potential to be a hunter in an age-old lineage of spider-men, was driven by fate to gain the mystical power transferred to him by an agent of the spider-god. Oops!

Peter Parker, young, rash, and in pursuit of fame, failed to act -- contributing to the death of his beloved uncle, birthing a guilt that fuels an ever-burning drive to protect the innocent and never let death claim another's life through inaction. Except he didn't.** His uncle was always alive, watching from the shadows (probably sharing a cup o' joe with Judas Traveler and Scrier #616).
Oops!

Peter Parker's first true love was Gwen Stacy. A sweet, also brilliant student at his university, ever her father's daughter. Anyone could see how in love they were and how devoted to each other, until tragedy claimed Gwen's life.
Except they weren't. Gwen, as much as she cared for Peter, couldn't resist the pull of a certain man's powerful green mojo. Oops!

Peter Parker dons a costume and becomes the most colorful, spectacular crimefighter ever. Struggling to make ends meet, Spider-Man
allows Peter to counter the schemes of nefarious foes while protecting his secret identity and allowing him to maintain some semblance of normal life.
Except he won't.*

Peter Parker may reveal his identity to the masses in order to support his friend, boss and commander -- Iron Man. Having recently become Iron Man's ward, blood brother, employee and part time accountant at Stark Industries, Peter Parker no longer needs a secret identity, as all his loved ones will soon be fitted with Iron Man costumes and taught to travel the wondrous currents of time in: Mary & May: Featuring the Temporal Tempests.

I could on with this but I'll spare us all. [Looking forward to the thanks.]
The bottomline is, you make the events of Amazing Fantasy #15 into
a fantasy themselves, and you've got the adventures of the Amazing Nobody.


Part Three: Corporate Hyprocrisy

"He's the same as always!"

We are consistently being fed the line that Peter Parker is the same as always. This from the people who killed Peter Parker, introduced mysticism into his storylines, gave him uncharacteristic powers, and featuring him gliding around as primary means of travel. The focal point of all these things being a crossover called: The Other. Psst.. Marvel, I might think something's different about Spidey if the head writer asks me if he's: "one or The Other." A friendly public service announcement from The White-Spider.

"Spider-Man is still driven by the same motivations!"
Mm-hmm. We'll see Mr. David, we'll see.

Stop unfairly labeling Gwen! Everyone makes mistakes!
This from the geniuses that titled it: Sins Past.
Wait, maybe that's not what they meant. What's that?
They followed it up with: Sins Remembered?
'Nuff said.

Spider-Man's Marriage, Baby, Wealth, Lack of Acne is Ruining Him,
and making him unrelatable!
And.. forcing him to bury a child, blowing up his wife, making him an Avenger and transforing him into a kid brother figure for other characters is helping me identify with him much better. Thanks Marvel!

"Spider-Man's traditional readers are fixated on the past and can't accept growth or development!"
Ahem. Who keeps dreaming of taking Spidey back to his swingin',
motorcycle riding, leather jacket wearing days? Marvel hasn't accepted the growth and development Spider-Man has experienced the last 20 years. Are they in any position to complain about the fact that I don't like the direction the stories have taken for the last 10?

Part Three: If That's How You Feel, You're No Spider-Man Fan!

Like hell I'm not. I've watched Peter Parker cocoon himself and discard his humanity. Twice. And I came back. I've watched him backhand his pregnant wife and hunt her down in a murderous rage. And I came back. I've seen him declared a clone and become a flunky to a psychopath. And I came back. How long can you hate what you're paying to read before you realize that it's not worth the financial and emotional investment anymore?

Bring back Ben, Marvel, and I'm finished. No 616, no Ultimate, no nothing until you restore the mythology and decide to actually use it as the basis of your stories, for once.


* These are not actual excerpts from the materials cited. They are my feeble
attempts at being "cute."
** It has not been confirmed that Spider-Man will reveal his I.D. during Civil War, and only an arrogant bastich would wholeheartedly believe, without a doubt, that this what Marvel plans to do. I am such a bastich.

You know something, WS? Even though I was looking forward to the continuing debate over Ben Reilly, I can think the wait is justified...because this was quite possibly the best post you have ever written in your short time here. To elaborate on what you said would only diminish it because it contains so much truth and conviction. No dobut if you posted this on other forums then you'll incur the wrath of the fanboys, but hey, maybe they need to hear something like this once in awhile.

Excellent job:up::up:

[TheWhiteSpider]

Originally Posted by PAD
And to hell with fans who judge without reading and to fans who blow carefully crafted and timed stories with precipitous reveals, for no other reason than to destroy comics and make it impossible for writers to do their job.


Goddamn what a little *****

One more post before I resume my work.

I reject David's premise. I reject the notion that I can't judge a storyline based on its direction. That I must purchase each individual issue and examine its particular content before making an assessment. Peter David and Marvel expect us to be willing to buy based on a preview, but suddenly it's unethical to decline based on the same information?

David's logic: If you bought it up until now, but don't like the direction its heading in, buy the next issue. Otherwise you're not giving it a fair chance. If you don't want to buy it, don't discuss it.
If you bought it and didn't like, shut up.


You know what? To hell with writers who demand that we turn off our brains and pay money to judge the direction of storylines, instead of judging by extensive past experience. Ever heard of consumer confidence, Peter David? How
many times are we required to pay you and your employers to disappoint us, before our confidence in creative teams to tell stories we'll actually enjoy just plain dissipates.

It is your responsibility to create and nurture confidence in the product you market to your potential audience; and in that capacity, as far as many are concerned, you and Marvel have failed.

Furthermore, to hell with companies and writers that pen lengthy, poorly thought out tales that contradict bodies of work -- greater in significance and scope than anything their present run will contribute to the history of the character they currently write -- in order to create a legacy for themselves, put the money of others into their pockets and make it difficult to impossible for readers to enjoy what they're buying. Don't think that statement is fair? It's the exact counter-point to David's statement. I'm sure he wouldn't want to be addressed that way. What makes him feel he's justified in addressing segments of his audience that way?

Peter, we can give as good as we get, and I'm not going to let some self righteous writer make sweeping generalizations and ludicrous arguments to justify the slow destruction of a modern icon.
Not quietly, anyway.

Originally Posted by PAD
Movies and TV, here I come.

If that's his attitude, he can't get there soon enough, as far as I'm concerned.

[Dyeathrose]

TheWhiteSpider, I really love how you wrote out for the most part, quite a bit of what I was thinking, but did it without blowing your top off (pretty sure I would've if I even tried :)), but standing firm on your ground. For what it's worth, I applaude you; if only Marvel would come down from the pedastal long enought to read it.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

You know, seriously, Peter smackin' his wife was a HEAT OF THE MOMENT THING. Why is it NOBODY can see that? Even Spiderfan saw that in their write up of th' issue, an' they take Clone Saga shots whenever possible!

Other'n that, you said it all.

[Flonk]

Is Flonk a Marvel plant or just trying to piss people off?

Drats! I've been found out! What tipped you off? The part where I said you should read a story before judging it? Or the part where I said that I liked the current Spider-man books? God forbid you buy and read books because you enjoy them, not because you like to complain on the Interweb.

[James"007"Bond]

This book sucks.

Spidey vs...um..."wrestler-guy": Pass.

Return of "Jack-ass Flash Thompson: Pass.

Return of....um..."Future Hoboblin-guy": Pass.

Now the return of Uncle Ben?

Quite frankly, i'm too bored with this nonsense to be "SHOCKED" anymore.

You know, somewhere (i.e. the offices of DC Comics) Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, Brad Meltzer, and Mark Waid, are looking at this crap and just laughing their collective asses off.

Marvel must really want to rid the world of 616 and replace it with the ultimate line with the most relentless and unforgiving way possible.

[iloveclones]

Well, I went along for the ride for Gwen, and Bucky. So I might as well see how the trifecta plays out.

Truthfully though, as much as I like PAD, I've never cared for the majority of his Spidey stuff. I think an awesome writer would be able to pull something like this off (like Brubaker recently did), but an awesome writer would've been able to pull Sins Past off. I don't have much hope for it being that good of a story, but I'm not going to get all up in arms over it.

[LarryLegend]

Drats! I've been found out! What tipped you off? The part where I said you should read a story before judging it? Or the part where I said that I liked the current Spider-man books? God forbid you buy and read books because you enjoy them, not because you like to complain on the Interweb.

Flonk, here's a concept for you to learn, the Internet is for sharing opinions. My current opinion on the state of the Spider-Man books is that they are pretty bad. Welcome to the Internet and the wonderful world of message boards. :)

[Cullen]

EDIT: I changed my mind! No wisdom for you!

[Orko Is King]

No way this is the real Ben. I don't think Marvel is THAT stupid.

[Zenien]

Good grief... :mad: Is NOTHING sacred?!

So we have a time traveling Hobgoblin, who not only KNOWS who Spider-Man is, but knows Peter's deepest motivation for being a hero... and what does he mean "erase ALL Spider-Men" - plural?

This sounds pretty convoluted, and would screw up WAY to much, so surely it will not last.

Wasn't there a "What If" story that explored this, not to mention that House of M horror.

THis sounds like it's going to have some ties to the "Spider-Man meets Spider-Man 2099" oneshot. Both Spider-Men were warped to the year 2211 at some point, and there was also a GreenGoblin 2211 and a Spider-Man 2211. GreenGoblin 2211 was also trying to erase all the Spider-Men throughout time. It was actually a better issue then it sounds on paper.

[CConn]

I pretty much agree with CaptainStacy's opinion (I think it was his, at least. :confused: If not, whoever said it can pick their opinion up at the lost and found. :)); it's probably not going to be a disrepectful thing like Sins Past - I'm sure Uncle Ben's not really back - but it still seems like a waste of a good writer and artist.

[BLAQUE-SPIDERMAN]

Spider Girl?

Spider Girl anyone?

Aunt May is dead, Baby May is alive, Kaine is still here :up:, and The Real Hobgoblin as well, not to mention consistant quality month after month and respect for a characters history. And of course my personal favorite Spidey writer Tom Defalco

or you could read the other Spider Man What If? series, you know, the one featuring Iron Man's sidekick, Stingers, Mexican Wrestling, Uncle Ben and the villians from 2099 :o
Oh i'm feelin' you on that one, C.K.! Spider-Man's comics are in a complete disaray at the moment- with even Ultimate Spider-Man lacking, Bendis is WAAAY to busy with like 100 other books! Spider-Girl is the most consistent Spider-book out on the shelves. If only the other writers would pay attention to what Tom DeFalco is doing with that book- they could learn something....

[BLAQUE-SPIDERMAN]

I pretty much agree with CaptainStacy's opinion (I think it was his, at least. :confused: If not, whoever said it can pick their opinion up at the lost and found. :)); it's probably not going to be a disrepectful thing like Sins Past - I'm sure Uncle Ben's not really back - but it still seems like a waste of a good writer and artist.
Ok, but ask yourself this question: "How many more times will Marvel lean towards "SHOCK VALUE" stories that suck, until they've ran away the real hardcore Spidey fans?" Joe Q. and Tom B. can't beleive that this crap will continue to go over well with the fans without massive loses...

[Flonk]

Flonk, here's a concept for you to learn, the Internet is for sharing opinions. My current opinion on the state of the Spider-Man books is that they are pretty bad. Welcome to the Internet and the wonderful world of message boards. :)

You're the one who said I'm either "a Marvel plant or trying to piss people off" because I have a different opinion than you. Take your own advice.

[Flonk]

Oh i'm feelin' you on that one, C.K.! Spider-Man's comics are in a complete disaray at the moment- with even Ultimate Spider-Man lacking, Bendis is WAAAY to busy with like 100 other books! Spider-Girl is the most consistent Spider-book out on the shelves. If only the other writers would pay attention to what Tom DeFalco is doing with that book- they could learn something....

I used to like Spider-Girl. But Ron Frenz's art makes my eyes hurt. And about the same time he took over with the art, the writing quality took a sharp downturn. I had to drop the book with the painfully bad domestic violence issue.

[Grim Goblin]

Joe Q. and Tom B. can't beleive that this crap will continue to go over well with the fans without massive loses...

Sure they do. Just look at what people are doing right now, even after Sins Past, remembered and all the mystic-shatra-totem crap. In fact I think that Joe Q. is counting on it. Because a lot of people just keep telling themselves that things will eventually get better. Like I said....Damn collectors!

[Citizen_Kaine]

I used to like Spider-Girl. But Ron Frenz's art makes my eyes hurt. And about the same time he took over with the art, the writing quality took a sharp downturn. I had to drop the book with the painfully bad domestic violence issue.

Too bad, since your missing out on the best storyline since the Alison Mongrain/Kaine arc way back in Spider Girl 50.

Some people hate Frenz's art, other love it I'm a big fan of his eighties ASM work so put me in the latter catagory

Also I thought the domestic violence issue was a real gem, and I'm one of those guys who despises preachy psa style anything

[Flonk]

Too bad, since your missing out on the best storyline since the Alison Mongrain/Kaine arc way back in Spider Girl 50.

Cool. I liked that one. If the digests ever get this far, I'll probably pick it up.

And I thought Frenz's 80's stuff was OK. But the super cartoony and (in my opinion) poorly layed out stuff he's doing now I can't stand.

[Shin-Natsume]

well, who has not been brought back from teh dead yet?
we had the clone, aunt may, uncle ben, doc ock, mysterio and everyone else..
so whos left?
spidercyde? roflmao

[Dan Ketch]

What The F u c k?! Seriously?!

[SpLiCeR]

Reminds me of the first comic I picked up, ASM #350, on the cover it had "Spidey's reunion with Uncle Ben... wha?"
Spidey got beat up badly by Dr Doom that he was so delirious he had a conversation with Uncle Ben, maybe it's another one of those? :P

I think they are indeed killing the title off and it's being replaced with a warped "What If" series. (Someone's warped idea at a conference meeting)
What if Gwen slept with...
What if Uncle Ben didn't die...
What if Spidey's powers will still evolving...

etc. etc.

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Reminds me of the first comic I picked up, ASM #350, on the cover it had "Spidey's reunion with Uncle Ben... wha?"
Spidey got beat up badly by Dr Doom that he was so delirious he had a conversation with Uncle Ben, maybe it's another one of those? :P


I thought he was really sick, and that's why he saw Ben. And tried to introduce him to some of the people in his college.

[CConn]

Ok, but ask yourself this question: "How many more times will Marvel lean towards "SHOCK VALUE" stories that suck, until they've ran away the real hardcore Spidey fans?" Joe Q. and Tom B. can't beleive that this crap will continue to go over well with the fans without massive loses...I can't ask myself that right now. Currently, I'm involved in pondering this question: "How long am I going to put up with those stain removers that say they'll get things perfectly clean, but they never do, so I'm left with this damn grape juice stain on my pants for the rest of eternity? ****ing *****es!"

[UK_Stu]

Ok, if this isn't a hoax i'm disapointed. I was angry at Sins past, but the "fan" in me hoped things would improve and I continued to get the comics and up until The Other I thought things were improving. The Other storyline crushed the few strands of hope I had left. One of the few strands left was FNSM, I liked PADs previous work and clung to this thread - hoping the Spider-man I knew might appear again. Iron-spidey and now the possible return of Uncle Ben have snaped that thread.

I've been a Spider-man subscriber since 1988, but this is putting that in jeopardy.

I really can't think of anything positive about the proposed storyline at all.
Unless somehow all the time travelling involved will be able to retcon Sins past and The Other.

Plus to any writer who moans about future stories being exposed - simply keep them to yourself. DC managed to keep the details of Identity crisis and Infinite crisis a secret until the very last minutes - Marvel should be able to do the same unless its all part of their plan

[Captivated]

EDIT: I changed my mind! No wisdom for you!
Awwww.... well... can I at least get some soup?

[Captivated]

The following post contains expressions of disgust, frustration, and citations of rampant stupidity. Reader discretion is advised.

Damn. That's the entirety of my response in a nutshell. Damn.

Due to my heavy workload my next post was supposed to be another round in an engaging philosophical debate with Stillanerd. Now I pop in to find this. This to-be-expected slap in the face to Marvel's legacy, Spidey's history, and the hundreds of readers that have been the backbone of the Spider-Man franchise that grew from those 12 cent comics way back when -- into the billion dollar juggernaut it is today. I guess I should throw in a "should this be what it seems" to placate the "It's may not even be the real Ben" and "Wait until you read the issue" crowd. Never say I'm unreasonable.

Now, as for the Marvel execs, I'm disgusted with your fanboy pandering to writers who:
a) Have a 'name' that can draw headlines in Wizard magazine and on Newsarama.com
b) Had a successful-in-syndication T.V. show, or genre specific motion picture releases in the early '90s
c) Had a hit run on a comic series [or stand-alone] in the last 15 years.

Your writers have developed a self righteous attitude towards readers, the source material, and fundamental elements of what defines comics in general. This attitude is either cultivated or encouraged from the top down.
A lot has been said about how traditional fans of comics have hurt the industry. We've "poisoned the well for new readers with online diatribes, caused characters to stagnate by hating change, and refused to grow up because we don't understand the difference between 'good stories' and 'nostalgic tales.'"

You want the ironic truth, Marvel management? You're the fanboys.
You are the ones who have gotten so hot under the collar over the prospects of working with creators like JMS, that you've decided his version of the nature and life of a character like Gwen Stacy trumps the basic understanding of her, penned by writers acclaimed for their contributions to the art of comics, who laid the foundation you stand on -- because: "OMG! It's the guy who made Babylon 5!" (Excerpted from an after hours meeting in Marvel's E-I-C's office)*

You've concluded that the idea of Spider-Man being the product of ancient mystical lineage is equal or greater to the pre-2005 origin of the character, known worldwide, that borders on modern mythology -- because: "I mean, he even wrote some episodes of He-Man! How f**** cool is that?!" (Excerpted from cell phone recordings of Joey Quesada)*

Peter David is allowed to take up pages of a paid literary work to continue his online debate with comic book fans -- because: "Dude. He wrote the death of Jean De Wolfe, aaand he can get us at least a couple of write ups per month in the comic mags." (Excerpted from an Outlook Express account on a Marvel Executive's discarded laptop)*

Spider-Man can be brutally ripped to shreds on panel, with no thought to the thousands of children who follow the character's exploits, or his fans that don't hail from the "Mortal Kombat" school of pop culture -- because: "We maintain the highest quality in talent across the entertainment industry. The writer/director of House Party, for example, has been among our staple of creators in recent times." (Taken from a Marvel press release recently discovered on Yahoo.com)*


In all seriousness I take issue. I absolutely take issue with the predominate policies at Marvel comics over the last few years. We're lambasted for not desiring change, but it's OK for your writers to change practically every defining aspect of a character? We're poisoning the atmosphere in the industry with our online messages, but it's OK for writers to use the actual stories to launch counterpoints in real life arguments? You can't see why we have a problem with people making, according to their own comments, permanent changes to certain aspects of a character's mythos -- when those in question have a hard time keeping track of whether May Parker is Peter's Aunt or his Mother; better yet, when they want to retcon his Aunt into being his Mother?

You know what your problem is Marvel? What makes you different than the caretakers of the legacies of other literary works and tomes throughout the ages? It's that there is no respect in your halls for the work that established the characters you control and the offices you control them from -- or the spirit of what thoses works hoped to convey. Who's asking you to hold by every statement written in every issue that ever existed? I haven't seen such a person anywhere. It's when you trod on the spirit, premise and context of Spider-Man's stories, for example, that you make yourself appear to be self righteous opportunists who are more interested in writing your John Hancock on the character than actually telling good, character driven stories.


Part Two: The Amazing Nobody

Peter Parker, a lonely but brilliant teen was bitten by an accidentally radiated spider at an exhibition he attended due to his love of science.
Except he wasn't. Peter Parker, a lonely teen with an uncanny potential to be a hunter in an age-old lineage of spider-men, was driven by fate to gain the mystical power transferred to him by an agent of the spider-god. Oops!

Peter Parker, young, rash, and in pursuit of fame, failed to act -- contributing to the death of his beloved uncle, birthing a guilt that fuels an ever-burning drive to protect the innocent and never let death claim another's life through inaction. Except he didn't.*** His uncle was always alive, watching from the shadows (probably sharing a cup o' joe with Judas Traveler and Scrier #616).
Oops!

Peter Parker's first true love was Gwen Stacy. A sweet, also brilliant student at his university, and ever her father's daughter. Anyone could see how in love they were and how devoted to each other, until tragedy claimed Gwen's life.
Except they weren't. Gwen, as much as she cared for Peter, couldn't resist the pull of a certain man's powerful green mojo. Oops!

Peter Parker dons a costume and becomes the most colorful, spectacular crimefighter ever. Struggling to make ends meet, Spider-Man
allows Peter to counter the schemes of nefarious foes while protecting his secret identity and allowing him to maintain some semblance of normal life.
But not for long.**

Peter Parker may reveal his identity to the masses in order to support his friend, boss and commander -- Iron Man. Having recently become Iron Man's ward, blood brother and part time accountant at Stark Industries, Peter Parker no longer needs a secret identity, as all his loved ones will soon be fitted with Iron Man armours and taught to travel the wondrous currents of time! Don't miss: Mary & May: Featuring the Temporal Tempests, hitting shelves in Jan. '07.

I could on with this but I'll spare us all. [Looking forward to the thanks.]
The bottomline is, you make the events of Amazing Fantasy #15 into
a fantasy themselves, and you've got the adventures of the Amazing Nobody.


Part Three: Corporate Hyprocrisy

"He's the same as always!"

We are consistently being fed the line that Peter Parker is the same as always. This from the people who killed Peter Parker, introduced mysticism into his storylines, gave him uncharacteristic powers, and feature him gliding around as his primary means of travel. The focal point of all these things being a crossover called: The Other. Psst.. Marvel, I might think something's different about Spidey if the head writer asks me if he's: "one or The Other,"
in a "life changing" arc with the same name. A friendly public service announcement from The White-Spider.

"Spider-Man is still driven by the same motivations!"
Mm-hmm. We'll see Mr. David, we'll see.

Stop unfairly labeling Gwen! Everyone makes mistakes!

This from the geniuses that titled the storyline: Sins Past.
Maybe that's not what they meant. What's this you say?
They followed it up with: Sins Remembered?
'Nuff said.

Spider-Man's Marriage, Baby, Wealth, Lack of Acne is ruining him,
and making him unrelatable!
And.. forcing him to bury a child, blowing up his wife, making him an Avenger, transforming him into a kid brother figure for other characters, and making him the Sensational Spider-Man.. of this generation... helps me identify with him much better. Thanks Marvel!

"Spider-Man's traditional readers are fixated on the past and can't accept growth or development!"
Ahem. Who keeps dreaming of taking Spidey back to his swingin',
motorcycle riding, leather jacket wearing days? Marvel hasn't accepted the growth and development Spider-Man has experienced the last 20 years. Are they in any position to complain about the fact that I don't like the direction the stories have taken for the last 10?

Part Four: If That's How You Feel, You're No Spider-Man Fan!

Like hell I'm not. I've watched Peter Parker cocoon himself and discard his humanity. Twice. And I came back. I've watched him backhand his pregnant wife and hunt her down in a murderous rage. And I came back. I've seen him declared a clone and become a flunky to a psychopath. And I came back. How long can you hate what you're paying to read before you realize that it's not worth the financial and emotional investment anymore? I'll soon know the answer, it seems.

Bring back Ben, Marvel, and I'm finished. No 616, no Ultimate, no nothing until you restore the mythology and decide to actually use it as the basis of your stories, for once.


* These are not actual excerpts from the materials cited. They are my feeble
attempts at being "cute."
** It has not been confirmed that Spider-Man will reveal his I.D. during Civil War, and only an arrogant bastich would wholeheartedly believe, without a doubt, that this is what Marvel plans to do. I am one such bastich.
*** Take the above, apply it to uncle Ben, and add "supremely" before arrogant.
Ooooo... your eloquence has me all tingly! :up:

I am STILL so TWEAKED about The Other (not to mention the damnable Sins duo) that your post really struck a cord. Dead on... I think you nailed them to the wall.

But, about FNSM... I actually have calmed down a bit. I don't think they are REALLY going for a long-term Uncle Ben ressurection. FNSM #5 was a downer, but besides regurgitating JMS' nonsense, PAD hasn't done anything too offensive...yet, so I'll TRY to read with an open mind.

It SOUNDS convoluted and depressing to me, but then, I thought Fried Green Tomatoes sounded dumb, and it was wonderful... so... it might be good... stranger things have happened.

[Dangerous]

Gotta say I’ll be surprised if Marvel actually go through w/ it and bring back Uncle Ben as a supporting character. So May remembers him as she walks down the street for a date w/ Jarvis, maybe it's just a tease w/ the preview for #8 onwards saying that a major character is coming back.
Maybe that major character is just Hobby huh?

I'm fairly certain I read an interview w/ Joe Q non too long ago and he said that bringing Ben back would never be done. So if it does happen I will be surprised and obviously disappointed.
Like I say I'm not counting on it yet.

[Dangerous]

It might be that Ben is brought back for a few issues by Hobby2211 and then following this these events will be undone.

[shinlyle]

Hey, I was over at the Spider-Man Message forum and come across this.Spoilers from FNSM #7 .Heres the poster OZ's whole text I copyed.




Guys, I was just picking up the comics in my pull list yesterday(Which Always come in on Thursday in this town. SIGH) when i Approached the advance copy rack.
I thumbed through Next Week's issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man #7. It Looks like a great issue with a nice battle. Everything I've come to expect from Peter David was there.
However I Was NOT Prepared for the final Pages!
I don't think Any Of us Are.
Aunt May is out on a Date with Edwin Jarvis when she sees...Uncle Ben watching her through a window! Ben Turns away sadly.
The Letters Page then makes it official. It Proclaims FNSM #8 as the Return of Uncle Ben! Apparantly the Future Hobgoblin from the year 2211 is attempting to erase all Spider-men from the timeline by eliminating Peter Parker's motivation for Becoming Spider-man. The Letters page promised that we would see what Happened if Uncle Ben had never died.
The Solicits for FNSm #8 and #9 have mentioned a Major Figure from the past returning(and I couldn't think of ANYONE Bigger) and the price Peter may have to pay to set things right.
Anyone In Shock Yet?

Sorry I'm late, guys....what did I miss...?

No.

They.


Didn't.


Okay... one more book to drop from my pull list. I'm gonna wait to see if it's true, and then I'm going to drop this book like a bad habit.

Two (616) Spidey books gone off my pull list....only one left.

As for the story itself, I wonder how Uncle Ben's gonna feel when he sees his nephew stabbing someone through the arms and eating their head?

[Red X]

Its a shame because so far Uncle Ben is the only comic book character to stay dead, now thats out the window.

[Dangerous]

Gwen and Harry have stayed dead.
Those plus Uncle Ben make up the 3 characters that bringing back from the dead would be like commiting creative suicide.

[Norman Osborn]

Gwen and Harry have stayed dead.
Those plus Uncle Ben make up the 3 characters that bringing back from the dead would be like commiting creative suicide.

Yah had to say it out loud didn't ya!!??:thing:

[Dangerous]

I was touching wood at the time.
Right now I would not put anything past them, but bringing back Ben permanently?, I'm not gonna buy that.

[Norman Osborn]

I was touching wood at the time.
Right now I would not put anything past them, but bringing back Ben permanently?, I'm not gonna buy that.

I don't think anyone is of the mind that Marvel is stupid enough to bring him back permanently but if you're going to dicker around with silly gimmicks like this, bring back secondary characters, not iconic characters....

...hell you wanna mess with Aunt May so badly, bring back Nathan from the dead (was that his name?) ...oh that's right...where's the *bleepin* shock value in that ??..*sigh*

I can feel it...Gwen's coming back from the dead...it's just a matter of time :(....and all JMS has to say is "well PAD brought back Uncle Ben !!!

[The-Arachnoid]

Holy crud!
Uncle Ben coming back, that just plain sucks.

[Citizen_Kaine]

That's why he loves to go to Comic Boards. They kiss his ass like it was Angelina Jolie's lips. And woe be unto anyone who actually disagrees with him.

I'll say, the guy threw a little **** fit about advance spoilers, so now they're banned on the boards. No spoilers/disscussions/reviews of anything that hasn't gone on sale yet :o

Excuse me, Mr David if I tend to avoid the Gestapo Boards from now on :rolleyes:

[Dope Nose]

Gwen and Harry have stayed dead.

remember when we used to say that about Norman? sigh...

[Dragon]

I'll say, the guy threw a little **** fit about advance spoilers, so now they're banned on the boards. No spoilers/disscussions/reviews of anything that hasn't gone on sale yet :o

Excuse me, Mr David if I tend to avoid the Gestapo Boards from now on :rolleyes:

Yeah I saw that. PAD now wants to control how we read and discuss comic books. A bit of a God complex going on there..

[shinlyle]

Yeah I saw that. PAD now wants to control how we read and discuss comic books. A bit of a God complex going on there..

What is it about Spidey that attracts the writers with the biggest egos...? It'd be different if they could back it up, but when it's time to deliver....POOF....nothing worth a damn....imagine that.

[Grim Goblin]

yeah that was really stupid of PAD's part. Like Uk Stu said, if DC can manage to keep their plotlines secret I don't see how come Marvel can't?.

Hell, people are still waiting for the latest scoop from Spidey 3 and that involves keeping a lid on plots, props, scenes etc... and Sony still manages to keep everything secret so PAD should be pissed at Marvel for their lack of security. Ah who am I kidding, they leaked the news on purpose to test the fans' reaction.

[OtepApe]

The thing with Marvel is, they like to exploit the internet. They try and use it to their advantage, but when things don't quite go their way, they are quick to slam the fans.

Now I like a lot of PAD's work, and I really don't think he's bringing Ben back for keeps, just a one off story piece. But the guy has to keep a lid on his *****ing about the people who buy his stuff.

[Flonk]

Yeah I saw that. PAD now wants to control how we read and discuss comic books. A bit of a God complex going on there..

God complex because he wants to keep important plot points to his books secret? So people don't go rushing to conclusions, rather than reading the story and letting it play out on it's own? Can't imagine why that would annoy him.

[Hoban]

I was touching wood at the time.

Must...resist...dirty...joke...:o


But seriously, regarding PAD, I met him once, he's a nice guy, very opinionated, but a nice guy none the less. But with his reaction, which I can completely understand, he could have been a bit more eloquent.

[Dragon]

God complex because he wants to keep important plot points to his books secret? So people don't go rushing to conclusions, rather than reading the story and letting it play out on it's own? Can't imagine why that would annoy him.

Exactly. I can't imagine why either. Does Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg or George Lucas dictate to people how they should watch their films? Or moreover, how to DISCUSS THEM? They may certainly have their preferences, but they sure as hell don't go to message boards and and apply pressure. Why? Because these guys actually have lives and understand that it's only their job to make the product. PAD has control over the crappy stories he's telling. What the public does is not meant to be under PAD's scrutiny.

And if PAD actually put as much effort into his writing as he does policing how we read, and pass information, he might not have to worry about the conclusions people jump to or how the they react to spoilers.

[Flonk]

Exactly. I can't imagine why either. Does Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg or George Lucas dictate to people how they should watch their films? Or moreover, how to DISCUSS THEM? They may certainly have their preferences, but they sure as hell don't go to message boards and and apply pressure. Why? Because these guys actually have lives and understand that it's only their job to make the product. PAD has control over the crappy stories he's telling. What the public does is not meant to be under PAD's scrutiny.

And if PAD actually put as much effort into his writing as he does policing how we read, and pass information, he might not have to worry about the conclusions people jump to or how the they react to spoilers.

Once you've read the book, say what you want. I just think it's silly to go on these long, angry rants before the book is even out.

[Dragon]

Once you've read the book, say what you want. I just think it's silly to go on these long, angry rants before the book is even out.

Are you PAD's agent? You appear to be of one mind. Let's be clear. It doesn't matter what you or PAD think is silly. You don't get to make the decision for us how we read comic books or pass information about them, or discuss them.

The real irony is that the poster who released the spoilers at Comic Boards expressed his excitement about the comic based on the spoilers- intended to fully get the book, and when PAD expressed his ire, apologzed profusely. And yet, PAD continued to insult him and act like an overall jerk. I think that's silly. Furthermore, many posters myself included expressed that knowing spoilers in and of themselves wouldn't diminish the enjoyment of a good story. It's only the quality of the story itself that matters. Yet I accept that PAD has every right to be a jerk. I won't go on a campaign to stop PAD from being a jerk. See how that works?

[patrickbateman]

wow

[ben_reilly_s_s]

People who stayed dead:
- Nathan Lubenski
- George Stacy
- Gwen Stacy
- Ben Parker
- Mary Parker
- Richard Parker
- Timmy - The kid who collected Spider-Man
- Harry Osborn
- Ben Reilly
People who came back:
- Norman Osborn
- Mendel Stromm
- Miles Warren - although he is now fully dead after Maximum Clonage Omega
- Kaine
- Miles Warren
People who came back because of duplicates:
- Mary Parker
- Richard Parker
- Gwen Stacy

I know there are a lot more, but I cant remember right now

[Grim Goblin]

:rolleyes:yes Flonk, it's silly to criticize a story idea that has crap written all over it before we read it. It's not like people around here were ever proven right when they did it before.

Hum, :eek wait a min... Sins Past, Sins Remembered, The Other....it's all coming back to me. How could I forget these things :confused:


DAMN YOU WANDA, YOU DID IT AGAIN !!!! :mad:

[Marc]

I... just.... I... god... how... this... just.... god...

There are no words.

The pathetic thing is, there will still be people who will defend this **** and he'll probably get a sales boost. Marvel is dead to me.

Dragon - Actually Lucasfilms do apply pressure and Lucas does mind what you think about his films,a s does Spielberg. As exampled by their editing of their films and re-releasing them.

[CrimeMaster!]

Yeah I saw that. PAD now wants to control how we read and discuss comic books. A bit of a God complex going on there..

I like PAD lot as a writer but he has been taking alot of this stuff to heart.He might be on his way to becoming the 2nd comic writer banned from those boards.

[Citizen_Kaine]

Who was the first :confused:

[CrimeMaster!]

Who was the first :confused:

Ron Zimmerman

He really got into it with fans over the bashing of his Get Kraven mini.

[TheWhiteSpider]

Ooooo... your eloquence has me all tingly! :up:

I am STILL so TWEAKED about The Other (not to mention the damnable Sins duo) that your post really struck a cord. Dead on... I think you nailed them to the wall.

But, about FNSM... I actually have calmed down a bit. I don't think they are REALLY going for a long-term Uncle Ben ressurection. FNSM #5 was a downer, but besides regurgitating JMS' nonsense, PAD hasn't done anything too offensive...yet, so I'll TRY to read with an open mind.

It SOUNDS convoluted and depressing to me, but then, I thought Fried Green Tomatoes sounded dumb, and it was wonderful... so... it might be good... stranger things have happened.

Let me know how it turns out, Cap. I just don't have the patience or consumer confidence required to put up with the Marvel of the 2000s anymore. If posters like yourself, Still and Dragon -- whose tastes are similar to mine -- find the upcoming issues to be worthwhile, I'll give them a shot.

[stillanerd]

Are you PAD's agent? You appear to be of one mind. Let's be clear. It doesn't matter what you or PAD think is silly. You don't get to make the decision for us how we read comic books or pass information about them, or discuss them.

The real irony is that the poster who released the spoilers at Comic Boards expressed his excitement about the comic based on the spoilers- intended to fully get the book, and when PAD expressed his ire, apologized profusely. And yet, PAD continued to insult him and act like an overall jerk. I think that's silly. Furthermore, many posters myself included expressed that knowing spoilers in and of themselves wouldn't diminish the enjoyment of a good story. It's only the quality of the story itself that matters. Yet I accept that PAD has every right to be a jerk. I won't go on a campaign to stop PAD from being a jerk. See how that works?

Having read your arguments, Dragon over on comicboards, what you say has merit. However, I can understand why PAD was upset; after all, I’m sure if you had produced a movie that had a surprising twist and if that got spoiled all over the net, you’d probably be a little ticked off. This is why I ended up apologizing to PAD in a PM for revealing the comic boards poster’s thread over on the CBR boards feeling that I too had contributed in ruining his story by spreading it to a wider audience. Perhaps it would’ve have been prudent to wait until the issue itself, rather than an advanced copy, had hit the stands (although UK Stu has a very good point--if DC can keep their plots concerning Infinite Crisis secret, how is it that Marvel couldn’t in this case, especially with a revelation unquestionably as explosive as this one?) so I’ve decided I should do that from now on.

But you are absolutely right when it comes to PAD’s behavior towards the poster and to those message boards in general. And because most of those posters were intimidated by PAD due to his reputation, the guy who posted the amendment to their spoiler rule--even though he also said that the poster who spoiled FNSM #7 did nothing wrong--still capitulated. It’s one thing to express to them “I don’t appreciate you ruining a story I worked so hard on. Please be more considerate in the future;” It’s another to continually berate and bully the entire message board long after the apology has been made. Just because he visits there does not mean he can control them. While one may question how they run things, it’s still their board, and he is, despite being a professional comic book writer, a guest of their board. Interestingly enough, PAD doesn’t have control over the character of Spider-Man either--for that is a copyrighted property of Marvel--much less invent the character. Anything he writes regarding Spider-Man has to be approved of first, yet his attitude seems to suggest that Spidey is HIS character (not unlike JMS himself). I realize that, being a would-be writer myself, that creative types have inflated egos, but this was ridiculous.

And if want another example of irony, Dragon, even though this revealation about Uncle Ben occurs at the end of the issue, is not the ending of the story but rather the beginning of a whole new story.

I... just.... I... god... how... this... just.... god...

There are no words.

The pathetic thing is, there will still be people who will defend this **** and he'll probably get a sales boost. Marvel is dead to me.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if that happened. Because of the spoiler, how many people will actually go out and buy the issue just to see it for themselves (or whether or not the guy was telling the truth) as opposed to not saying anything at all. If FNSM #7 DOES get a boost because of this, then PAD couldn’t have asked for a better publicity agent. Man, all this irony makes me want to listen to an Alanis Morrisette CD. :)

[Dragon]

Having read your arguments, Dragon over on comicboards, what you say has merit. However, I can understand why PAD was upset; after all, I’m sure if you had produced a movie that had a surprising twist and if that got spoiled all over the net, you’d probably be a little ticked off. This is why I ended up apologizing to PAD in a PM for revealing the comic boards poster’s thread over on the CBR boards feeling that I too had contributed in ruining his story by spreading it to a wider audience. Perhaps it would’ve have been prudent to wait until the issue itself, rather than an advanced copy, had hit the stands (although UK Stu has a very good point--if DC can keep their plots concerning Infinite Crisis secret, how is it that Marvel couldn’t in this case, especially with a revelation unquestionably as explosive as this one?) so I’ve decided I should do that from now on.

But you are absolutely right when it comes to PAD’s behavior towards the poster and to those message boards in general. And because most of those posters were intimidated by PAD due to his reputation, the guy who posted the amendment to their spoiler rule--even though he also said that the poster who spoiled FNSM #7 did nothing wrong--still capitulated. It’s one thing to express to them “I don’t appreciate you ruining a story I worked so hard on. Please be more considerate in the future;” It’s another to continually berate and bully the entire message board long after the apology has been made. Just because he visits there does not mean he can control them. While one may question how they run things, it’s still their board, and he is, despite being a professional comic book writer, a guest of their board. Interestingly enough, PAD doesn’t have control over the character of Spider-Man either--for that is a copyrighted property of Marvel--much less invent the character. Anything he writes regarding Spider-Man has to be approved of first, yet his attitude seems to suggest that Spidey is HIS character (not unlike JMS himself). I realize that, being a would-be writer myself, that creative types have inflated egos, but this was ridiculous.

And if want another example of irony, Dragon, even though this revealation about Uncle Ben occurs at the end of the issue, is not the ending of the story but rather the beginning of a whole new story.



I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if that happened. Because of the spoiler, how many people will actually go out and buy the issue just to see it for themselves (or whether or not the guy was telling the truth) as opposed to not saying anything at all. If FNSM #7 DOES get a boost because of this, then PAD couldn’t have asked for a better publicity agent. Man, all this irony makes me want to listen to an Alanis Morrisette CD. :)

I completely understand PAD's feelings and respect them. What my problem is- is that he refuses to see anyone's side other than his own. And worse, the mods at Comic Boards knuckled under simply to please him. Most of the posters there had no problem with the way the spoilers were released.

And honestly, I applaud fans who come forward with such information and offer it- as Oz did- in a manner that allows those interested in spoilers to see it, and those who aren't to avoid them. It was hilarious to me over at CB the the ONE POSTER "Honey Bunny" continually blamed Oz for spoiling the book for him. He'd have to be functionally illiterate to have "accidently" read the spoilers. Plain and simple, he read them, then when PAD came out against it, he had to become PAD's lapdog, screaming bloody murder, hoping for a pat on the head.

We fans have been getting burned by Marvel for a good while now with cheap gimmickry and false leads down blind alleys, two issue stories padded out to run 6 months- only to be given the most disappointing and anti-climactic finishes. We're shelling out increasingly higher prices for comic books that they are putting less and less effort into. PAD wants us to buy a pig in a polk, simply because it was his brainchild. It isn't fair, and there's no reason that those who don't mind sharing and receiving the info in advance should be barred from doing so. In sopme cases- it actually leads to greater sales.

And again- Big deal- PAD brought back yet another dead character. Is something like this really a surprise ending? Is it clever? Did he have to rack his brain to show us Uncle Ben?

If Spidey is placed in a real cliffhanger- his back against the wall, facing certain death, and PAD had come up with a clever means by which Spidey escaped and defeated the villain (Yeah.. when was the last time that happened?)- then that's an ending I could understand his being protective of. But not this one. Not worth all the balleyhoo. Because as you said- it's merely the beginning of a whole new story- those who give a damn will still be intrigued to learn just how and why Ben is there, so it means nothing if they already know that he's there.

But the that's the pattern at Marvel. They reject things that would help them generate goodwill and would rather have an antagonistic realtionship with those who are keeping them in business.

[stillanerd]

I completely understand PAD's feelings and respect them. What my problem is- is that he refuses to see anyone's side other than his own. And worse, the mods at Comic Boards knuckled under simply to please him. Most of the posters there had no problem with the way the spoilers were released.

No kidding. They practically allowed themselves to be flogged by him simply because he's the writer of their favorite comic book character. Sure, I understood why he was upset and was sorry, but that doesn't mean a person has to make their nose brown for him.

And honestly, I applaud fans who come forward with such information and offer it- as Oz did- in a manner that allows those interested in spoilers to see it, and those who aren't to avoid them. It was hilarious to me over at CB the the ONE POSTER "Honey Bunny" continually blamed Oz for spoiling the book for him. He'd have to be functionally illiterate to have "accidently" read the spoilers. Plain and simple, he read them, then when PAD came out against it, he had to become PAD's lapdog, screaming bloody murder, hoping for a pat on the head.

Yeah, the whole "Wow, what great spoilers, but PAD hates them so I hate them too" defense he gave was fundamentally weak.

We fans have been getting burned by Marvel for a good while now with cheap gimmickry and false leads down blind alleys, two issue stories padded out to run 6 months- only to be given the most disappointing and anti-climactic finishes. We're shelling out increasingly higher prices for comic books that they are putting less and less effort into. PAD wants us to buy a pig in a polk, simply because it was his brainchild. It isn't fair, and there's no reason that those who don't mind sharing and receiving the info in advance should be barred from doing so. In sopme cases- it actually leads to greater sales.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the actual sales on FNSM #7 are going to be and whether the spoilers played a factor.

And again- Big deal- PAD brought back yet another dead character. Is something like this really a surprise ending? Is it clever? Did he have to rack his brain to show us Uncle Ben?

If Spidey is placed in a real cliffhanger- his back against the wall, facing certain death, and PAD had come up with a clever means by which Spidey escaped and defeated the villain (Yeah.. when was the last time that happened?)- then that's an ending I could understand his being protective of. But not this one. Not worth all the balleyhoo. Because as you said- it's merely the beginning of a whole new story- those who give a damn will still be intrigued to learn just how and why Ben is there, so it means nothing if they already know that he's there.

Especially since Uncle Ben has made recent appearances in one form or another in other Spidey stories. Who knows, maybe this Uncle Ben is a holdover from House of M--at least, that way the real Uncle Ben is still dead.

But the that's the pattern at Marvel. They reject things that would help them generate goodwill and would rather have an antagonistic realtionship with those who are keeping them in business.

While at the same time sucker them in with bloated event after bloated event and superficial alterations to powers and costumes and call those fundamental changes.

[MaxCarnage]

Well, most of us hardly give them a reason to change their ways. ***** about Spider-Man's new costume and Uncle Ben's return and whatever else all you want; nothing changes until you stop buying their comics.

[Flonk]

Are you PAD's agent? You appear to be of one mind. Let's be clear. It doesn't matter what you or PAD think is silly. You don't get to make the decision for us how we read comic books or pass information about them, or discuss them.

You haven't read it yet, that's my point.

[Flonk]

:rolleyes:yes Flonk, it's silly to criticize a story idea that has crap written all over it before we read it. It's not like people around here were ever proven right when they did it before.

Hum, :eek wait a min... Sins Past, Sins Remembered, The Other....it's all coming back to me. How could I forget these things :confused:


DAMN YOU WANDA, YOU DID IT AGAIN !!!! :mad:

I liked Sins Past. The Other was OK. Didn't read Sins Remembered. I thought it looked like crap (and stories written by JMS's assistants usualy are) so...wait for it....I DIDN'T READ IT. Life goes on, and I never even thought about the story again untill just now.

[Flonk]

Ron Zimmerman

He really got into it with fans over the bashing of his Get Kraven mini.

Now THAT was a piece of garbage. And I stupidly bought every single issue of that awful, awful book.

[stillanerd]

I liked Sins Past. The Other was OK. Didn't read Sins Remembered. I thought it looked like crap (and stories written by JMS's assistants usualy are) so...wait for it....I DIDN'T READ IT. Life goes on, and I never even thought about the story again untill just now.

You liked Sins Past...RELEASE THE HOUNDS! :D

Seriously, it was interesting until the whole "Gwen had pity sex with Norman" and Peter imagining Gwen and Norman doing the deed ruined everything.

GREEN GOBLIN: And I've got the pictures to prove it! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!:gg::bomb:

[Flonk]

You liked Sins Past...RELEASE THE HOUNDS! :D

Seriously, it was interesting until the whole "Gwen had pity sex with Norman" and Peter imagining Gwen and Norman doing the deed ruined everything.

GREEN GOBLIN: And I've got the pictures to prove it! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!:gg::bomb:

I thought it was decent. Not JMS's best, but not as bad as everyone made it out to be. (Though I was still holding out hope for hypno-gas, or something right untill the end) The only part I didn't like was how it took a pretty emotional and internal story and ended it with a standard, run of the mill Super Hero Fight.

[Dragon]

I liked Sins Past. The Other was OK. Didn't read Sins Remembered. I thought it looked like crap (and stories written by JMS's assistants usualy are) so...wait for it....I DIDN'T READ IT. Life goes on, and I never even thought about the story again untill just now.

You mean... You judged Sins Remembered without reading it?

So... what was your point again?

[Grim Goblin]

yeah Flonk, if your point was saying that if you judged the book was going to be crap and therefore didn't buy it, than read back to my first post because I already said I haven't bought a 616 spidey book in a long while. Good for you if you liked JMS' stuff but I don't. I don't need to "give the book a chance" before forming an opinion about it. I know what I like and that is not it.

I don't mind that people voice their displeasure of the books. It's the people who can tell in advance that a story will be crap, ***** about it, then go buy the book and ***** some more when they realize they've been had that irritates me. I can understand being caught off guard once, maybe twice. But dammit, they keep hoping Marvel will change its way while all they do is encouraging them not to do it by raising sales numbers.

I'm absolutely sure that Ben will not return in a permanent manner but it still pisses me off for reasons I already mentionned. The only way I could approve of this story is if the time travel angle is used to retcon all the mystic garbage that JMS introduced like a previous poster suggested. And even then, the means used to accomplish that would leave a bitter taste in my mouth. But at least the result would be worth it.

[shinlyle]

I liked Sins Past.

Well...there went your credibility. ;)

[Doc Destruction]

Omfg, remind me never to read any of your posts, Flonk.

[Hoban]

I'm absolutely sure that Ben will not return in a permanent manner but it still pisses me off for reasons I already mentionned. The only way I could approve of this story is if the time travel angle is used to retcon all the mystic garbage that JMS introduced like a previous poster suggested. And even then, the means used to accomplish that would leave a bitter taste in my mouth. But at least the result would be worth it.

And you know they're not gonna do that because:

A) Marvel loves all this JMS crap, so they dare not change a thing.

and

B) If they were going to do it, they'd do it in their main title rather than a secondary title, don't you think?


So I doubt we'll get any relief in that aspect.:mad:

[Flonk]

You mean... You judged Sins Remembered without reading it?

So... what was your point again?

No. I didn't read it. And I didn't go on-line complaining about it, and talking about how much Marvel hates their fans for publishing it, ect. I just didn't read it. I could have been the next Watchmen, I don't know, I didn't read it.

[Flonk]

Omfg, remind me never to read any of your posts, Flonk.

But how can I do that if you won't read my posts? :confused:



















;)

[Dragon]

No. I didn't read it. And I didn't go on-line complaining about it, and talking about how much Marvel hates their fans for publishing it, ect. I just didn't read it. I could have been the next Watchmen, I don't know, I didn't read it.

So... Your point was to come to a discussion board and expect to convince the users not to discuss the subject of the board? You've got a hard sell on your hands.

Again, you hope to dictate how and what people discuss.

Tell me, do you have any other items on your list of comic book edicate?

Should we wear formal dress?

Should we read in a certain area of the house?

Is there a suggested way by which we should turn the pages?

Note to you and PAD. You guys need to remember these are comic books we're discussing. Not religious scripture.. Not important scientific discoveries.

Unclinch.

As for our belief that Marvel hates (or at least takes for granted) the fans- that isn't based on the reveal of one spoiler. That's based on years of policy, even statements by the staff. Certainly when Peter David goes on a message board, condescends to the fans and insults anyone who dares disagree with him, it would make for some tension and ill will.

[Doc Destruction]

Conversely, you have Dan Slott and Geoff Johns, who continuously say that they do it for the fans. It shows...and we appreciate it.

[Grim Goblin]

And you know they're not gonna do that because:

A) Marvel loves all this JMS crap, so they dare not change a thing.

and

B) If they were going to do it, they'd do it in their main title rather than a secondary title, don't you think?


So I doubt we'll get any relief in that aspect.:mad:

Yeah I know...:( . I'm just saying that it's would have been the only reason I could approve of the uncle Ben gimmick. Damn Marvel.

[Grim Goblin]

You know Flonk, maybe you need to read a story to be sure if it stinks or not, but others (myself included) can tell by a solicit if we're going to like the story or not because we know what kind of stories appeal to us.

I grant you that sometimes stories that could have been "meh" actually surprised me by being quite good. But when it comes to bad stories, there's no amount of great art and good execution in the world that is going to make me enjoy a bad plot. And when people get those kinds of rushed plotlines, poor characterization, and stupid gimmicks that come out of nowhere simply for shock value, month in and month out, they have every right to ***** about it.

[shinlyle]

You know Flonk, maybe you need to read a story to be sure if it stinks or not, but others (myself included) can tell by a solicit if we're going to like the story or not because we know what kind of stories appeal to us.

I grant you that sometimes stories that could have been "meh" actually surprised me by being quite good. But when it comes to bad stories, there's no amount of great art and good execution in the world that is going to make me enjoy a bad plot. And when people get those kinds of rushed plotlines, poor characterization, and stupid gimmicks that come out of nowhere simply for shock value, month in and month out, they have every right to ***** about it.

Well said.

It's like saying that you can't judge a movie just because everyone else, all the critics, and anyoen you've talked to, all hate it.

Look: If it looks like a turd, it smells like a turd, and it feels like a turd, then you shouldn't have to taste the damn thing to know it's a turd.

Simple as that.

[CaptainStacy]

I completely understand PAD's feelings and respect them. What my problem is- is that he refuses to see anyone's side other than his own. And worse, the mods at Comic Boards knuckled under simply to please him. Most of the posters there had no problem with the way the spoilers were released.

And honestly, I applaud fans who come forward with such information and offer it- as Oz did- in a manner that allows those interested in spoilers to see it, and those who aren't to avoid them. It was hilarious to me over at CB the the ONE POSTER "Honey Bunny" continually blamed Oz for spoiling the book for him. He'd have to be functionally illiterate to have "accidently" read the spoilers. Plain and simple, he read them, then when PAD came out against it, he had to become PAD's lapdog, screaming bloody murder, hoping for a pat on the head.

We fans have been getting burned by Marvel for a good while now with cheap gimmickry and false leads down blind alleys, two issue stories padded out to run 6 months- only to be given the most disappointing and anti-climactic finishes. We're shelling out increasingly higher prices for comic books that they are putting less and less effort into. PAD wants us to buy a pig in a polk, simply because it was his brainchild. It isn't fair, and there's no reason that those who don't mind sharing and receiving the info in advance should be barred from doing so. In sopme cases- it actually leads to greater sales.

And again- Big deal- PAD brought back yet another dead character. Is something like this really a surprise ending? Is it clever? Did he have to rack his brain to show us Uncle Ben?

If Spidey is placed in a real cliffhanger- his back against the wall, facing certain death, and PAD had come up with a clever means by which Spidey escaped and defeated the villain (Yeah.. when was the last time that happened?)- then that's an ending I could understand his being protective of. But not this one. Not worth all the balleyhoo. Because as you said- it's merely the beginning of a whole new story- those who give a damn will still be intrigued to learn just how and why Ben is there, so it means nothing if they already know that he's there.

But the that's the pattern at Marvel. They reject things that would help them generate goodwill and would rather have an antagonistic realtionship with those who are keeping them in business.

Absolutely. Which is why i find myself slowly gravitating more and more towards DC Comics.

[Norman Osborn]

Absolutely. Which is why i find myself slowly gravitating more and more towards DC Comics.

Any in particular Cap?......I collected Action and Detective as a kid but sooooo much time has past I'm afraid of jumping back in....was considering picking up Infinte Crisis but felt there was far too much back history for me to understand what the hell's going on!

[CConn]

Any in particular Cap?......I collected Action and Detective as a kid but sooooo much time has past I'm afraid of jumping back in....was considering picking up Infinte Crisis but felt there was far too much back history for me to understand what the hell's going on!Currently, there's two crossovers going on in Superman and Action (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4945) and Batman and Detective (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4927). Both are quite excellent, IMO, and both are set up so that, you'll definitely have a lot of questions about things, but those questions will be supposedly answered in the books - no real back history needed.

I also thought the first issue of the new Blue Beetle (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4963) series was quite good. He's a very Spider-Man-like chatacter, and again, not a lot of knowledge is required (other than, basically, the Crisis happened, and now everyone's trying to get back to normal).

And stuff like Flash, Justice League, etc. are all restarting in a couple of months, so they should be easy to get into as well.

[Norman Osborn]

And stuff like Flash, Justice League, etc. are all restarting in a couple of months, so they should be easy to get into as well.

Now I actually went looking for the JLA but found the JSA, something just called "Justice" and some other books.....just more confusion.....

...so will the JLA have a new mag out soon?

One other question.....can you explain to me what "OYL" is?...I know it's an acronym for One Year Later but it almost seems like every damn character is being rebooted in DC....and if that's the case, then maybe getting back into Action and Detective won't be such a chore?...

...thanks

edited to add: Just realized this has absolutely nothing to do with Spidey....sorry all.....so if CCONN or anyone could PM me the particulars I'd be much obliged

[CConn]

PM sent.

[Hoban]

I just read it today, and the way the main story is written( the mexican wrestler thing) it seems like PAD doesn't like the totem crap.

[Dragon]

Okay.. First- why did we need this Mexican wrestler story? Spidey has plenty of enemies far more interesting than these. I mean PAD came up with an interesting character with the machine guy from issue #1 whose name escapes me at the moment. But the wrestlers were pretty weak, and it appears PAD intneds to bring them back.

Second, the whole deal with Ben. I am curious about how PAD intends to handle this, and I hope it's better than what he's done with Flash, or I'll lose whatever respect I have left for his writing skills. Ben must know about his death in this reality, or else his reaction to seeing the love of his life- the woman he died to protect (To hell with JMS' spin) with another man would be far different from what we saw.

[Dangerous]

Just bought this will read tonight...

[Nebins]

What's the deal with Ben returning? I'm really not enjoying the repercussions of The Other. Magic shouldn't be invovled in Spider-Man. It's always been about the science and human nature. Now we have to deal with a mystical line of Spider-men and whatnot. How will they fix this mess?

[TwilightPro101]

Okay, another reason to stop reading the titles. This is getting out of hand again. Reminds me of the revamp days post-Clone Saga Ben Reilly.

[TwilightPro101]

What's next Harry Osborn returns from the dead and becomes a heroic Green Goblin?

[Themanofbat]

What's next Harry Osborn returns from the dead and becomes a heroic Green Goblin?

Seeing as Harry is still a focal point in the movies, I have no doubt that we'll see a "Harry ressurection" by 2007.

:(

[Themanofbat]

Okay.. First- why did we need this Mexican wrestler story? Spidey has plenty of enemies far more interesting than these. I mean PAD came up with an interesting character with the machine guy from issue #1 whose name escapes me at the moment. But the wrestlers were pretty weak, and it appears PAD intneds to bring them back.


Well, I think the wrestler story was a way to perhaps introduce El Mueurto (sic) to the Marvel Universe... characters like these are hit or miss... remember Moon Knight? Anyway, through the years, we get new characters that last or they don't... Ned Leeds, the Rocket Racer, Mrs. Muggins, Marcy Kane, Debra Whitman, etc... all characters that were introduced into the Spidey mythos that either took off or disappeared. While I would like to see an old familiar nemesis for Spidey to tackle, I'm not going to fault PAD for introducing a new character in a two-part arc. At least it gave us a reason to fix Millar's John Jameson/Spidey thing, and we get to see Robbie again as well.

Second, the whole deal with Ben. I am curious about how PAD intends to handle this, and I hope it's better than what he's done with Flash, or I'll lose whatever respect I have left for his writing skills. Ben must know about his death in this reality, or else his reaction to seeing the love of his life- the woman he died to protect (To hell with JMS' spin) with another man would be far different from what we saw.

I'm not too impressed with the Ben deal as well, but all I know is that he shows up through a restaurent window for a brief second. Unless I see it in print, anything that I read/hear about on the Internet is speculation. As it stated in the letter pages, we'll get to see something about "blah blah what would have happened if Ben didn't die blah blah..." which leads me to believe that Peter will have to let Ben die (again) if things are to be normal.

The concept of such a story is cool, but it's coming at the wrong time in the Spidey mythos. The fans are still dealing with things like Sins Past, The Other, and all the other nonsense that's been in print the last few years that this type of tale just reeks of "Oh no... here we go again". I would rather have a few old-fashioned Spidey yarns, and perhaps some conclusions to all the crap, and THEN ... maybe this Uncle Ben story could have been told.

But what do I know...

:confused: :confused: :confused:

:(

[wolvie2020]

Look: If it looks like a turd, it smells like a turd, and it feels like a turd, then you shouldn't have to taste the damn thing to know it's a turd.

Simple as that.

Excellent, I'm going to work that phrase into my many phrases and philosohies on life :)

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

I thought this was a pretty good issue. I liked the action, and the art wasn't too bad. They talked a lot about the Totem theory behind Spidey's powers, and I'm glad that they didn't further cement it.

So the Uncle Ben's back sweepstakes begins....hopefully it's not the actual Uncle Ben. If it is....there is no god.

[Mister J]

I'm hoping this isn't what it seems. It could all be in May's head...or maybe the guy looks like Uncle Ben...or May had one too many cosmopolitans. Anything other than what it looks like.

The soliticitations at the back of the issue seemed to hype it up though. Of course, that's the purpose behind them.

*fingers crossed*

[spahn]

boy, they are getting desperate over at marvel.

[Flonk]

I'm hoping this isn't what it seems. It could all be in May's head...or maybe the guy looks like Uncle Ben...or May had one too many cosmopolitans. Anything other than what it looks like.

That's the impression I got from the story. Of course, the letters page says otherwise, but there you go.

[Brian Braddock]

That's the PLAN, obviously. To utterly destroy Marvel Universe Spidey in order to force people jump to Ultimate Spider-Man.

If all goes well, 50 years from now, historians will say that Spider-Man was created by Bendis and Bagley.

"Stan" who?

"Ditko"? What kinda name is that? Some shlub I never heard of...


>shudder<

I can only hope Uncle Ben coming back is false. Personally, I enjoyed the Winter Soldier arc but...........Uncle Ben?.........Thats just too much!