The Best and Worst Moments of Infinite Crisis

[That-Guy]

Okay, yes, I know... this should have been placed in the IC thread. But since that thread attempts to discuss the current events of IC and can often turn into a mess of unrelated conversations, I figured it wouldn't hurt TOO much to start a new thread for this.

Since IC is nearly coming to a close, and most of it's "big secrets" have been revealed, I was just curious what parts everybody thought were the "highlights" and the "low points" of the series. All in all, I think it's been pretty good... there have definitely been some problems (most likely the result of re-writes and last minute changes) but its certainly kept a good bit of us guessing and discussing and eagerly anticipating the next installment, and I think that says a lot about the story.

Some of my favorite moments were:

1. Batman's breakdown in IC # 3. Often, Batman is portrayed as emotionless and cold... and I think he has to be at times because his life is his work. Hence the reason he has such trouble establishing personal relationships. So when his humanity DOES creep in, it can be a very powerful moment. I think anyone who has pulled a 13 hour day at work can relate to feeling the same way... just wanting to throw in the towel because you can't take it anymore. This was very well done, I thought.

2. Black Adam killing Psycho Pirate. By far, the most badass and appropriate death scene I think I've EVER seen in a comic book. Sometimes, a villain needs to die. Someone like Psycho Pirate simply will never stop doing what he does because he can't... so there's pretty much only one solution. I loved when Barry beat him to a pulp in COIE... but the way Adam took him out even surpassed that.

3. Villains United... the whole damned series. This mini was so good, I didn't want it to end. I wasn't sure about it at first, but after issue #2, I was hooked and it just kept getting better as the series went on. Catman is now one of my favorite characters... I can't wait for the VU special and the Secret Six series. Gail Simone rocks my world.

Now... things I didn't like...

1. Alex and Superboy Prime being turned into villains. This was a bold twist to the story, I'll give them that. And the two of them are certainly powerful enough to be a genuine threat... but I just felt like it was a bit of a cop-out on DC's part. They were heroes in COIE... and I just feel like Didio and Johns were like, "Well, we haven't seen them in 20 years... no one really cares... let's turn them evil (sort of ) and have them try to destroy the universe." It wreaks of the whole Parallax thing, only I think it's a little worse because at least with Parallax and Zero Hour, we saw more of a progression of Hal turning to the dark side. This was just kinda like, BOOM, they're the villains. By the way, they've been f**king things up all year, we just didn't allude to it at all (making me think that maybe there was something else going on originally that DC decided to nix at the last minute and go with this idea instead).

2. Jason Todd's return. I don't mind that he's back. I don't even mind the whole 'Superboy punching the wall of reality" thing. I just don't like the two being put together. I really, REALLY wanted a good, mind-blowing explanation as to why Todd was still alive... and for a brief time I thought we were going to get it. We didn't, at least not in my opinion. It wasn't as horrible as some people made it out to be, but it really wasn't very good either.


Okay, I'll shut up now. Your opinions?

[gildea]

Best moment?

two words :

"Round Two"

[The Leaguer]

My favorite moment was Batman crying in issue 6 at the prospect of losing Nightwing.

[The Ether]

^^^ That was a pretty good moment too

I'll post my favourite's later. I'm at school

[Pksoze]

Worst Moment

Batman's condescending speech to Superman. Then Superman agreeing with Batman's dumb argument.


Best

Kal L busting out in part 1
The kryptonite ring being destroyed
Death of the Psycho Pirate
Superboy Prime's freakout

[GoldenAgeHero]

best part:conner getting the snot beat out of him.

worst part: geoff turning sb-prime into a maniac.

[GoldenAgeHero]

My favorite moment was Batman crying in issue 6 at the prospect of losing Nightwing.

i thought that was sweat.

[The Leaguer]

I thought it was pretty obvious that he was crying. Batman knew dismantling Brother Eye was more important than going to Nightwing's side, but the decision was killing him, and what Eye was saying while he did it made it all the more worse.

[XwolverineX]

Splash page of all th' hard hitters in th' Society was awesomness. :eek::up:

[The Question]

The good:


1. Superboy Prime VS. the Teen Titans. That fight was friggin' badass.

2. Superman VS. Superman. Words cannot describe.

3. Superman screaming over Lois' death. Ever so touching.


The bad:


1. Wonder Woman trying to kill Mongul. hat scene was incredibly out of character.

2. The death of Blue Beetle. Seemed unnecesairy. I know that some times a story begins to write itself, leading you to sometimes have to kill off a character for the sake of the story, but it didn't seem necesairy here. They could have gone without it, I think. Besides, the kid who replaced Ted is pretty much Ted but hispanic and with super powers.

3. Deathstroke dropping Chemo onto Bludhaven. Again, very out of character.

[Darthphere]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[The Leaguer]

I think DP fell asleep on the keyboard again.

[Darthphere]

I think DP fell asleep on the keyboard again.


It happens from time to time.

[The Leaguer]

I've found that keyboards are much more supportive of my neck and back than regular pillows.

[Darthphere]

I've found that keyboards are much more supportive of my neck and back than regular pillows.


Sealy Posturpedic can kiss my ass.

[LinternaVerde]

"Superman always saves Lois"

touching...

[ToddIsDead]

This:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Sam655321/psychopirate.jpg

Conner's death, and Batman crying at the prospect of Nightwing dying were some of my favorite moments. Plus when the Flashes took out SBP.

I didn't like Deathstroke's characterzation.

[BlackOpsTengu]

I suppose they can retcon Deathstroke's actions with Bludhaven as being under the influence of Psycho Pirate, like Bizarro was.

And isn't it a bit premature to start coming out with 'best moments'? We haven't seen the climax yet! :p

[Spike_x1]

The good: "No more silly faces." :D

Superboy Prime going nuts and the Flashes zipping in to save the day.

Alex and his "petri dish"

The Spectre finding his new host.

The not-so-good: Diana trying to kill Mongul. It's like, now that WW has the death of Max Lord under her belt, they're really taking efforts to solidify the fact that she has no mercy against some of the villains.

Batman's speech to Superman made me sigh. It was a great speech, but Batman's last line completely ruined it for me.

[yenaled]

"...Grandpa?"

[ToddIsDead]

That was great. Bart is like that whenever he sees a picture of Barry, not to mention the man himself.

[batnkevlar]

That was great. Bart is like that whenever he sees a picture of Barry, not to mention the man himself.

Like in "A World Without Grownups"... that was tearworthy...

[ToddIsDead]

Yeah, definitely. That was what I was refering to actually.

[Kurosawa]

The best: seeing Kal-L smash through the barrier and return to DC Comics after an unjustified 20-year absence.

The worst: almost everything else, except some of the cool alternate Earths in #6.

[CConn]

The best: seeing Kal-L smash through the barrier and return to DC Comics after an unjustified 20-year absence.

The worst: almost everything else, except some of the cool alternate Earths in #6.Your CT is ironic given the original definition of the word. :o

[BrianWilly]

making me think that maybe there was something else going on originally that DC decided to nix at the last minute and go with this idea insteadI don't know what plans might have been changed by DC at what point, but we know for certain that Alex Luthor was always going to be the main villain, and that Superman-2 and Lois-2 were always going to be a major factor in the Crisis. The evidence is that in Countdown to IC, Blue Beetle was shown a vision by the Wizard Shazam of Lex Luthor being instrumental in the Crisis, which didn't make sense at the time because there's nothing magical or otherworldly about Lex, but now we know that the Lex that was shown was actually Alex Luthor in disguise. Also, Mr. Mxy enigmatically told Lois and Clark of this Earth that everything that happens, happens because of them.

Anypoop...
Best
-"This looks like a job for SUPERMAN."

-Purple Death Ray and Themyscira's last stand.

-Flashes vs. Superboy-Prime.

-Infinite Earths in the night sky.

-The heroes in mass, led by Zauriel.

-Fckstorm in space.

-Batman breaking down in #3.

-Batman's scenes with Nightwing, Booster, Green Arrow, and Green Lantern.

-Showdown with Brother Eye.

-Of course, Superboy vs. Superboy-Prime and Conner's sacrifice.

-Far, far more.

Worst
- "But the only thing you haven't been for a very long time...is human."
That's just...inaccurate.

-Superman vs. Superman was a pretty big disappointment.

-Alex needed magic to be a certain way to power his tower so he...had Psycho Pirate manipulate the Spectre into destroying all magic?
WTF? Of all the catalysts for the Countdown minis, this one made the least sense. And by "least sense," what I actually mean is "none at all."

-The hazy status of Tempest. At this point I don't even care if they did kill him off, I just want to know if he's dead or alive!
Okay, so I'd care very, very much if they killed him off, but the point remains.

[The Leaguer]

Zauriel's appearance was f***ing incredible.

[Spike_x1]

Anypoop...
Best
-"This looks like a job for SUPERMAN."Am I the only one who heard Bud Collyer's voice from the Fleischer cartoons when reading that line?

[Pksoze]

I forgot

Seeing this was very cool.

http://zonanegativa.com/imagen/1267.jpg

[Darthphere]

Zauriel's appearance was f***ing incredible.


I gotta agree, shall I say orgasmic?

[The Question]

-Alex needed magic to be a certain way to power his tower so he...had Psycho Pirate manipulate the Spectre into destroying all magic?
WTF? Of all the catalysts for the Countdown minis, this one made the least sense. And by "least sense," what I actually mean is "none at all."


No, you see, he needed magic, but since he's not a sorcerer, he can't manipulate magic unless it's in it's raw, unrefined form. So, he had Psycho Pirate manipulate the now hosteless Spectre into destroying all magic. Since magic cannot be destroyed, it simply reverted into a more basic, chaotic form.

[Darthphere]

No, you see, he needed magic, but since he's not a sorcerer, he can't manipulate magic unless it's in it's raw, unrefined form. So, he had Psycho Pirate manipulate the now hosteless Spectre into destroying all magic. Since magic cannot be destroyed, it simply reverted into a more basic, chaotic form.


I dont think Psycho Pirate is at all that powerful.:confused:

[Pksoze]

I dont think Psycho Pirate is at all that powerful.:confused:


Its not really hard to give Spectre an excuse to kill someone.

[The Question]

The Spectre was without a host. It's basicaly an instinctual animal without a host.

[Darthphere]

The Spectre was without a host. It's basicaly an instinctual animal without a host.


Its a force of God.

[The Question]

Yeah. But without a host, said force is just that. A force. No real thought processes or goals besides filling out it's fucntion. Vengance. And, without a host, it can't properly decide who's deserving. Psycho Pirate manipulated that.

[Emerald Knight]

I thought Psycho Pirate manipulated Eclipso/Jean Loring in Arkham to get Spectre to do all the killing.

[Darthphere]

Yeah. But without a host, said force is just that. A force. No real thought processes or goals besides filling out it's fucntion. Vengance. And, without a host, it can't properly decide who's deserving. Psycho Pirate manipulated that.


Hes still a force of God, with what youre telling me Psycho Pirate could tell a Hurrican to destroy France. I just dont think its as simple as youre presenting it and that Psycho Pirate would be powerful enough to do that.

[The Question]

The Spetre has a mind. But it's basic. Instinctual. Like an animal. Psycho Pirate can manipulate an animal.

[Emerald Knight]

Hes still a force of God, with what youre telling me Psycho Pirate could tell a Hurrican to destroy France. I just dont think its as simple as youre presenting it and that Psycho Pirate would be powerful enough to do that.

without a human host to differentiate kinda sorta wrong from REALLY wrong, we see Spectre going all out on everybody committing ANY sort of crime. Hell, he buried a child under coins for taking a few bucks out of his mother's purse. Eclipso (thanks to Pycho Pirate) just gave Spectre (seduced him "to the dark side") a focus as to what was the "true root of evil" in the universe: magic.

[Darthphere]

The Spetre has a mind. But it's basic. Instinctual. Like an animal. Psycho Pirate can manipulate an animal.


You keep doing that animal comparison and it doesnt work. Its like telling a Christian Jesus was just some guy. Even without a host the Spectre is an instrument of God. I dont think some b-list villain like Psycho Pirate could do what youre saying he does, when look what Black Adam did to him. WOuld you say Black Adam is more powerful than the Spectre, host or not?

[Darthphere]

without a human host to differentiate kinda sorta wrong from REALLY wrong, we see Spectre going all out on everybody committing ANY sort of crime. Hell, he buried a child under coins for taking a few bucks out of his mother's purse. Eclipso (thanks to Pycho Pirate) just gave Spectre (seduced him "to the dark side") a focus as to what was the "true root of evil" in the universe: magic.


Fine, I got that. I just dont think its possible or has been explained properly.

[The Question]

You keep doing that animal comparison and it doesnt work. Its like telling a Christian Jesus was just some guy. Even without a host the Spectre is an instrument of God. I dont think some b-list villain like Psycho Pirate could do what youre saying he does, when look what Black Adam did to him. WOuld you say Black Adam is more powerful than the Spectre, host or not?



It's not a question of power. It's a question of willpower. And hostless, The Spectre has no will of it's own. Only it's function. It's instinct.

[Spike_x1]

Fine, I got that. I just dont think its possible or has been explained properly.Obviously it is possible since that's what happened.

[Darthphere]

Obviously it is possible since that's what happened.


:rolleyes: You know what I mean.

[CAPT. MARVEL]

By the way, they've been f**king things up all year, we just didn't allude to it at all (making me think that maybe there was something else going on originally that DC decided to nix at the last minute and go with this idea instead).

Ths isn't true. The clues are just well-hidden. Go back and re-read The Future is Now arc of Teen Titans(if you have it). Brainiac makes a comment about someone beating on the walls of reality. I believe there are others, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

[Spike_x1]

:rolleyes: You know what I mean.Not really. The Question and Emerald Knight already explained quite thoroughly how Psycho Pirate did it. It's not their responsibility if you refuse to believe any of it.

[Darthphere]

Not really. The Question and Emerald Knight already explained quite thoroughly how Psycho Pirate did it. It's not their responsibility if you refuse to believe any of it.


Are you having a bad day or being an ass on purpose. I never asked them to convince me of anything. Im just syaing why I think its wrong. "Oh Aunt May beat Galactus its true because it happened." Sorry, I just dont think all these big events in this book have been explained properly, especially the Superboy banging on the wall changed reality crap. If you want to buy into that thats fine, but dont come off with an attitude.

[Dr. Mid-Nite]

Zauriel's appearance was f***ing incredible.

Agree with this post, hope he joins the new JLA haha.

[Spike_x1]

Are you having a bad day or being an ass on purpose. I never asked them to convince me of anything. Im just syaing why I think its wrong. "Oh Aunt May beat Galactus its true because it happened." Sorry, I just dont think all these big events in this book have been explained properly, especially the Superboy banging on the wall changed reality crap. If you want to buy into that thats fine, but dont come off with an attitude.You seem to be the one freaking out in anger here. Not me. I'm simply stating what's right in front of you.

The situation in question has been explained very well, both in the comics and in this thread. It has been shown to be within the characters' abilities to do what they have done. It's your problem if you can't come to believe that a magical mind controller is capable of manipulating the Spectre, who has only the most instinctual concept of right and wrong without a host, and thus very easily manipulated.

[Darthphere]

You seem to be the one freaking out in anger here. Not me. I'm simply stating what's right in front of you.

The situation in question has been explained very well, both in the comics and in this thread. It has been shown to be within the characters' abilities to do what they have done. It's your problem if you can't come to believe that a magical mind controller is capable of manipulating the Spectre, who has no concept of right and wrong without a host, and thus very easily manipulated.


This isnt me angry, im calm as hell. Either way, I dont buy the explanations, and as you said thats my problem. It wont stop me however, from voicing my problems with said explanations. The posters in this thread have made great explanations to my problems but it still has flaws IMO. If you choose to believe it fine, im not getting on anyones ass about it, just that I dont. Either way im enjoying the hell out this event and the flawed logic hasnt stop me from doing so.

[I_am_budders]

I think someone allready hit it, but this pannel got to me the most:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/cbro57/BatsIC.jpg

It just reflects the true epic nature of the event, how out of control everything has gotten.

[Spike_x1]

This isnt me angry, im calm as hell. Either way, I dont buy the explanations, and as you said thats my problem. It wont stop me however, from voicing my problems with said explanations. The posters in this thread have made great explanations to my problems but it still has flaws IMO. If you choose to believe it fine, im not getting on anyones ass about it, just that I dont. Either way im enjoying the hell out this event and the flawed logic hasnt stop me from doing so.If you don't like the explanation, fine. But there's nothing flawed about its logic.

I don't happen like the explanation for the past continuity errors as simply being "Superboy punched his way through reality," but the logic does fit and is not flawed in any way because it perfectly explains how and why those continuity errors occured.

And about my accusations of you being angry; that stems from you calling me an ass, even though I was merely agreeing with the previous posters. Based on your insult, it seemed likely that I had angered you in some way. Now, if you're not angry, and you just called me an ass for the hell of it, then perhaps I should be the one getting angry at you, ass.

[batnkevlar]

I think someone allready hit it, but this pannel got to me the most:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/cbro57/BatsIC.jpg

It just reflects the true epic nature of the event, how out of control everything has gotten.

What's happening? Is he sneezing?

Oh, and what are Psycho Pirate's powers?

Oh, and man, face's getting punched in with eyeballs flying out, is DC getting more graphic?

[BlackOpsTengu]

"-Superman vs. Superman was a pretty big disappointment."

Not if you throw in the "This is your life Superman" issues! The fight panels done by Benes help capture, with the exception of Wonder Woman seeing the ruined Metropolis, just how massive a fight this really was.

Two Supermen, each convinced they're doing the right thing, going totally berzerk on each other.

Awesome.

[The Question]

Oh, and what are Psycho Pirate's powers?


He can mainpulate emotions. Sounds relatively harmless, but he's got it down to an artform. He can get you to do exactly what he wants you to do without you even realizing it.

[Spike_x1]

Just a random thought, but what happened to the Psycho Pirate's appearance that he had during "Underworld Unleashed"? Where he had a new (and cooler IMO) costume and the Medusa Mask became one with his face, transforming into more of an eyepatch?

Did that appearance revert at the end of that story and I just missed it, or did he just magically go back to his old look at some point over the years?

[BrianWilly]

For those who think that Psycho Pirate could never control the Spectre, Psycho Pirate never did control the Spectre. He controlled Jean Loring, who then seduced the Spectre. Much less difficult.

I personally just thought that the whole "MAGIC!" aspect of Alex Luthor's plans required far, far more leaps of faith or reason than any other part of his plans.

He just so happens to need raw magic in order to power his tower. It just so happens that you can get raw magic by destroying existing magic. And it just so happens that the Spectre and Eclipso were around and hostless for him to hoodwink.

How does Alex know any of these things, anyway? He's a scientist, not a magician. At any point, any part of this very methodical plan could have gone wrong; magic by nature is not very predictable, and are run by hosts of powers far, far more terrible than he. I can buy that none of the lords of the age could detect Alex Luthor's influence -- and even they could detect it a little -- but how did Alex know that they couldn't?

[CaptainStacy]

I thought the Flash family dog-piling Superboy Prime was pretty cool.

I also liked Black Adam confronting Superboy Prime, (for all the good it did).

Was a bit disappointed in Superman vs Superman.

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought the Supermen's fight was one of the highlights. The "Superman, This Is Your Life" arc was great.

[BrianWilly]

Oh, I thought we were just including scenes from the main series itself. "This is Your Life, Superman" was a pretty good story, but the scene as it played out in IC#5 was pretty lame, especially when it was the primary tease of the Perez cover.

If we're adding the tie-ins...

Rann/Thanager Special
-Jade's death, and subsequent Kyle as Ion.

-Full-page spread of all the ships converging on Alex's hands.

Teen Titans Annual
-All the heroes working together and helping and acting like heroes in Bludhaven.

-HARDCORE SEX!!!!

[The Leaguer]

What's happening? Is he sneezing?
He's crying.

[BlackOpsTengu]

I'm surprised the death of Jade isn't being listed here, considering how much smack gets talked about her. :D

[Darthphere]

For those who think that Psycho Pirate could never control the Spectre, Psycho Pirate never did control the Spectre. He controlled Jean Loring, who then seduced the Spectre. Much less difficult.

I personally just thought that the whole "MAGIC!" aspect of Alex Luthor's plans required far, far more leaps of faith or reason than any other part of his plans.

He just so happens to need raw magic in order to power his tower. It just so happens that you can get raw magic by destroying existing magic. And it just so happens that the Spectre and Eclipso were around and hostless for him to hoodwink.

How does Alex know any of these things, anyway? He's a scientist, not a magician. At any point, any part of this very methodical plan could have gone wrong; magic by nature is not very predictable, and are run by hosts of powers far, far more terrible than he. I can buy that none of the lords of the age could detect Alex Luthor's influence -- and even they could detect it a little -- but how did Alex know that they couldn't?


I think youre the only one that kind of understands what im saying.

[GOODT!MES]

...."HARDCORE SEX!!!!"

Wow, did I ever miss that annual.

[TheCorpulent1]

For those who think that Psycho Pirate could never control the Spectre, Psycho Pirate never did control the Spectre. He controlled Jean Loring, who then seduced the Spectre. Much less difficult.

I personally just thought that the whole "MAGIC!" aspect of Alex Luthor's plans required far, far more leaps of faith or reason than any other part of his plans.

He just so happens to need raw magic in order to power his tower. It just so happens that you can get raw magic by destroying existing magic. And it just so happens that the Spectre and Eclipso were around and hostless for him to hoodwink.

How does Alex know any of these things, anyway? He's a scientist, not a magician. At any point, any part of this very methodical plan could have gone wrong; magic by nature is not very predictable, and are run by hosts of powers far, far more terrible than he. I can buy that none of the lords of the age could detect Alex Luthor's influence -- and even they could detect it a little -- but how did Alex know that they couldn't?
Well, his plans have gone wrong already and he's just rolling with the punches. The heroes screwed up his big tower and freed everyone from it, but Superboy Prime showed up again and demanded his Earth back, so Alex just went with it and decided to make Earth-Prime the basis for his perfect world. It's possible that he's been doing that all along, changing his plans to work around whatever kinks have come up.

As for the magic question, I've always understood the DC universe to work on the fact that everything comes from the Source, magic included. Thus, Alex Luthor may have just been able to harness magic the same as he would any other energy. He's a scientist, yes, but he's a scientist operating on a level of science that puts just about everyone else to shame. It's possible that at his level of super-science, magic becomes just another form of energy.

Regarding the Spectre and Eclipso, it was fortuitous that they were both hostless, but I'm pretty sure Alex orchestrated Eclipso's hostlessness himself. He had Superboy Prime salvage what was left of Eclipso's stone after the JSA defeated him, as I recall. And the fluctuations in magic were suitably explained for me. The Spectre didn't just destroy magical beings; he took out pillars of magic--things that kept the raw magical energy of the universe in check and stabilized in the recognizable forms we've known. That's why he went after Atlantis, Shazam, the Phantom Stranger, etc. Those are all people and places that are integral to the structure of magic in the "Ninth Age" of magic that the DCU was apparently in up until DoV. Now those pillars have been shattered and magic has lost its cohesion, reverting to raw energy. New pillars will have to come up to stabilize it for the Tenth Age.

[The Batman]

The Good

*The return of Earth 2 Superman

*Villains United

*Batman leading his team of heroes against Brother Eye. The whole thing was awesome

*Connor goes out like a hero

*The Flashes stop SB Prime

*Batman being less of an ass in general

The Bad

*Superman vs Superman was a bit weak

*Not enough of Superman in the whole series

*Ted dying

[Amazing Afroman]

He's crying.

I actually thought that he was sweating. But that makes sense too I suppose.

[Spike_x1]

Regarding the Spectre and Eclipso, it was fortuitous that they were both hostless, but I'm pretty sure Alex orchestrated Eclipso's hostlessness himself. He had Superboy Prime salvage what was left of Eclipso's stone after the JSA defeated him, as I recall. And the fluctuations in magic were suitably explained for me. The Spectre didn't just destroy magical beings; he took out pillars of magic--things that kept the raw magical energy of the universe in check and stabilized in the recognizable forms we've known. That's why he went after Atlantis, Shazam, the Phantom Stranger, etc. Those are all people and places that are integral to the structure of magic in the "Ninth Age" of magic that the DCU was apparently in up until DoV. Now those pillars have been shattered and magic has lost its cohesion, reverting to raw energy. New pillars will have to come up to stabilize it for the Tenth Age.Good explanation :up:. You put it into more fancy terms than I would have done, but I originally thought that the basics of that were obvious to readers.

I guess that assumption was wrong on my part.

[Pksoze]

So I'm the only one who thought the Anti Monitor tower looked cool.

[ToddIsDead]

I thought it was pretty cool. Yet another thing that harkens back to the original Crisis.

[Pksoze]

I thought it was pretty cool. Yet another thing that harkens back to the original Crisis.

It really in my mind solidified Alexander Luthor as a true badass.

To have the corpse of the Anti Monitor (in some ways the ultimate villain) as a tuning fork was ultimately very cool.

[ToddIsDead]

It really in my mind solidified Alexander Luthor as a true badass.

To have the corpse of the Anti Monitor (in some ways the ultimate villain) as a tuning fork was ultimately very cool.
Can't agree more :up:

[Pksoze]

Can't agree more :up:

Actually this leads me to what I consider to be the worst thing about Infinite Crisis... it will take a long time before we ever get an epic as good.

Another sad fact is that lots of people don't realize (mostly the crybabies in the DC messageboards) is that this is a superior series to the Original Crisis.

It had a better build up, more interesting villains, better crossovers, and will probably have a more cohesive plan to pick up the pieces. Plus its just better written than the original Crisis.

Its raised the bar for epics so the question is can it be topped?

[ToddIsDead]

Whenever I want to read a big epic story again, I'll just gather my hundreds of IC comics and read them again. It's amazing how well this has been planned. It's been leading up to this for years. Which leads me to this question: Has Geoff Johns been behind this for a few years, and orchestrating the events that have happened in the DCU, or has it been all of DC working together to plan this and Geoff only happened to get to write the main series?

[Pksoze]

Whenever I want to read a big epic story again, I'll just gather my hundreds of IC comics and read them again. It's amazing how well this has been planned. It's been leading up to this for years. Which leads me to this question: Has Geoff Johns been behind this for a few years, and orchestrating the events that have happened in the DCU, or has it been all of DC working together to plan this and Geoff only happened to get to write the main series?


Johns said Rucka, Loeb, & Winnick helped him with the planning.

And everything from that issue in Superman/Batman where Luthor states there will be a Crisis has helped build it up.

[ToddIsDead]

I know the Superman/Batman issue kind of kicked everything off. That and Graduation Day, but I'm curious about the remark that Lex made. How would he know? The only way it makes sense to me is that it could have been Alex Luthor in disguise, like he was during Villians United. Maybe someone could elaborate for me.

[Pksoze]

I know the Superman/Batman issue kind of kicked everything off. That and Graduation Day, but I'm curious about the remark that Lex made. How would he know? The only way it makes sense to me is that it could have been Alex Luthor in disguise, like he was during Villians United. Maybe someone could elaborate for me.


Loeb said that was just his way of using Luthor as a mouthpiece to tell the readers that something big would come up.

[ToddIsDead]

Okay, I got it now. Thanks.

[Kurosawa]

Your CT is ironic given the original definition of the word. :o

Not really.

[The_Mystery]

I think someone allready hit it, but this pannel got to me the most:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/cbro57/BatsIC.jpg

It just reflects the true epic nature of the event, how out of control everything has gotten.


People, people, please. Batmans is not crying there. He's sweating. Not tears. Sweat.

[The Leaguer]

People, people, please. Batmans is not crying there. He's sweating. Not tears. Sweat.
No, he's crying.

[The_Mystery]

No, he's crying.

No, look at the picture again. The SWEAT is coming from his nose and chin. Tears wouldn't come down that way. They would get caught inbetween his mask and face. He's sweating. OR the tears would come directly from his eye. Batmans is in an intense situation where a computer is basically telling him that he can't save his "son" and he's sweating.

[Darthphere]

No, look at the picture again. The SWEAT is coming from his nose and chin. Tears wouldn't come down that way. They would get caught inbetween his mask and face. He's sweating. OR the tears would come directly from his eye. Batmans is in an intense situation where a computer is basically telling him that he can't save his "son" and he's sweating.


Hes crying, Dan Didio himself said it.

[The_Mystery]

Hes crying, Dan Didio himself said it.

I would like a link to that. I don't mind being proven wrong. Just like to see the facts for myself.

[Darthphere]

I would like a link to that. I don't mind being proven wrong. Just like to see the facts for myself.


www.google.com

[Lackey]

www.google.com


considering how recent the issue is, probably wouldn't be able to find it with google

[Darthphere]

considering how recent the issue is, probably wouldn't be able to find it with google


Probably, but im not going to waste my time looking for it either.

[Lackey]

well, it looked like sweat to me and I don't think Batman would be crying about Nightwing until he actually lost him...not before.

[Darthphere]

Lol, I just realized it really doesnt matter and I dont really care.

[roach]

No, look at the picture again. The SWEAT is coming from his nose and chin. Tears wouldn't come down that way. They would get caught inbetween his mask and face. He's sweating. OR the tears would come directly from his eye. Batmans is in an intense situation where a computer is basically telling him that he can't save his "son" and he's sweating.

you yourself have said it....crying while wearing a mask will change the direction of the tears

[Lackey]

Lol, I just realized it really doesnt matter and I dont really care.


http://misers.org/pictures/SomethingAwful/20050920-lol/lolcano.gif

[Darthphere]

http://misers.org/pictures/SomethingAwful/20050920-lol/lolcano.gif


:up:

[The_Mystery]

you yourself have said it....crying while wearing a mask will change the direction of the tears

I didn't say that it would change the direction. The tears wouldn't make it out of his mask if it is a tight as it's drawn. It wouldn't even make sense for Batman to be crying. Bruce knows Dick has been in great danger before and never cries. Sweating would make more sense considering the circumstances.

[I_am_budders]

Sweating would make more sense considering the circumstances.

Considering the universe is being ripped apart and he's taking alot of the blame, I would say this circumstance dictates tears just as well as any other ever might. Interpert it how you will I suppose. I just don't think they'd bother drawing sweaty Batman.

[Assassin]

Am I the only one who heard Bud Collyer's voice from the Fleischer cartoons when reading that line?

I did too :)

[That-Guy]

Until I see proof that those are tears, I'm going with sweat. I'm not saying Batman never cries... it just would feel completely out of context here, despite the fact that Nightwing's life was at stake. I mean, if there's one thing Batman knows how to do, it's keep his cool and remain level headed when he needs to (even our anti-social, jerk Batman can do this), and that's what he had to do here because he was providing a distraction for Brother Eye. Nevertheless, I don't think it matters all that much.

Other things I liked:

- This story as a whole was a lot more cohesive than the original Crisis. The original Crisis overall was a better concept, admittedly, but one thing I really hated about it was how plotlines were just completely dropped at random and we were told "Go buy this comic book now to see what happens!" IC has done that too to some extent, but as long as you've picked up the lead-ins, the main series and IC specials, you should have no problem understanding what is going on.

- Alex Luthor getting a haircut. I may not like him being turned into a villain, but at least he doesn't look like a teenage roadie for Dokken anymore.

- All the dialogue between Brother Eye and Batman. Too sweet.

- Sasha Bordeaux. The first interesting love interest I've seen for Batman since Catwoman and Talia.

Things I didn't like:

- Brainiac being almost completely absent (other than a reference to Brainiac technology being used in the creation of the OMACs and an appearance in a Teen Titans story I missed). He was a MAJOR player in COIE... I almost feel like now the comic books are adhering to the "all Superman villains suck except for Luthor" idea.

- Every picture Phil Jiminez drew of Earth 2 Lois Lane. She looked like a leper.

- "Our" Superman being pretty much a background character the whole time (one of my complaints about the original Crisis, as well). Issue # 7 had better make up for this.

[Pksoze]

- "Our" Superman being pretty much a background character the whole time (one of my complaints about the original Crisis, as well). Issue # 7 had better make up for this.


He has to play a major part imo, Superboy Prime & a Luthor are bad guys. In a sense the whole series feels like Superman II where you're waiting for Superman to make his appearance.

[TheCorpulent1]

I haven't been waiting for Superman to do anything. "Superman, This Is Your Life" was everything I really needed to see from Supes in the current Crisis.

That said, I think Superman'll be the big hero in the eleventh hour again, just like he and all his variants were in the first Crisis. #7 will probably be all about the Supermen sticking it to Alex Luthor. They've certainly got the motivation now, with Lois and Conner dead, and I doubt Superman is powerless for the next year because he accidentally tripped on some rainbow-colored Kryptonite or something.

[BlackOpsTengu]

And you also have to remember, however misguided he was, Earth II Superman was HELPING Alex and Superboy in their plans, even though he didn't know all they were planning.

Our Superman stopped him dead, Wonder Woman just knocked some truth into him. Yet it was our Superman who delivered the final, verbal blow.

"A perfect Earth doesn't need a Superman."

[Darthphere]

Until I see proof that those are tears, I'm going with sweat. I'm not saying Batman never cries... it just would feel completely out of context here, despite the fact that Nightwing's life was at stake. I mean, if there's one thing Batman knows how to do, it's keep his cool and remain level headed when he needs to (even our anti-social, jerk Batman can do this), and that's what he had to do here because he was providing a distraction for Brother Eye. Nevertheless, I don't think it matters all that much.


For the sake of argument, wasnt he crying or at least showing emotion during Identity Crisis.

[TheCorpulent1]

He cradled Tim with a sad look on his face when they found Jack's body, but I don't recall Bruce ever actually crying in IDC. I haven't looked at the issues since I read them the first time, though.

[Darthphere]

He cradled Tim with a sad look on his face when they found Jack's body, but I don't recall Bruce ever actually crying in IDC. I haven't looked at the issues since I read them the first time, though.


Well there was that cover for #6, I dont think hes crying but it kinda takes the cool under pressure argument for a loop.

[Pksoze]

The only time I remember Batman crying was during the Venom arc.

[SouLeSS]

Superboy Prime killing 5 of so of the Teen Titans.

[That-Guy]

Well, to be fair... covers ALWAYS lie or exaggerate what actually happens in the issue... and by the end of it, he did figure out who was behind Sue Didney's murder.


The only time I can remember Batman crying was during Death in the Family. Well, also when his parents were murdered too, but he was only like, 12 at the time.

[SouLeSS]

Forgive me if these are too big, a mod or admin can edit them to just the url if they are. Best parts are circled in a light blue color.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/Illae/191acedit.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/Illae/201riedit.jpg

[CAPT. MARVEL]

I thought Batman's nervous-breakdown/panic-attack was one of the best character moments. I also do not think he was crying when he was taking out Brother Eye.

[The Leaguer]

He was.

[PaleRider]

Best: The splash page with all the villians, Black Adam killing Psycho Pirate, Superboy Prime vs. Titans, Flashes vs. Superboy Prime, Batmans break down. and alot others.

I haven't been too disappointed except for the Superman vs. Superman fight, and when Black Adam was punching SB Prime and his punches did nothing but then conner shows up and his punches are effecting SB prime. I didn't think Conner was stronger then Black Adam, I'm not the biggest expert on Conner so maybe I'm wrong.

[That-Guy]

More Good:

- Alex's gigantic hands reaching through that hole in space. I think all of the heroes out there collectively went no. 2 in their pants when they saw that.

- The Rock of Eternity shattering over Gotham. I may not have liked DoV as a whole, but the end did rock. Just the thought of something like that occuring is beyond awesome.

More Bad:

- On that earth that Alex creates (and then destroys) where Batman and Superman appear to be some type of Aztec warriors about to kill each other, it appears as though Batman is wearing a costume with nipples. He's probably not actually wearing a shirt and just has gray warpaint on or something... but nevertheless it made me think of the Joel Shumacher Batman movies.

- Tom Cruise chowing down on placenta. Okay, I know this has nothing to do with Infinite Crisis, but it has to be the most f**ked up, repulsive thing I've heard all day.

[yenaled]

Earth-616 was funny, I especially liked the fact they were having a Civil War.

[ToddIsDead]

- Tom Cruise chowing down on placenta. Okay, I know this has nothing to do with Infinite Crisis, but it has to be the most f**ked up, repulsive thing I've heard all day.
I heard about that on the daily show last night. Tom Cruise is just so out-there.

[That-Guy]

I heard about that on the daily show last night. Tom Cruise is just so out-there.


What I want to know is, was he always this nuts? Or was it just Katie Holmes and making bad movies like War of the Worlds that brought out this really f**ked up side to him?

[ToddIsDead]

I remember him being a normal guy, like five to ten years ago. Maybe he was just "in the closet" with all of this scientology, weird-ass stuff.

[Trigger]

Or maybe he's ADD?

Favorites:
- SBP vs the Teen Titans
-Psycho Pirate's death
-Conner's death
-Earth 616 for sure!

Least Favorite:
-The actual idea of Conner dying
-Most of the other alternate Earth's
- WW possibly going to jail (it depresses me)

[Ultimate_Superman]

"-Superman vs. Superman was a pretty big disappointment."

Not if you throw in the "This is your life Superman" issues! The fight panels done by Benes help capture, with the exception of Wonder Woman seeing the ruined Metropolis, just how massive a fight this really was.

Two Supermen, each convinced they're doing the right thing, going totally berzerk on each other.

Awesome.Got that right that pretty much was a huge tie-in to that fight and the whole IC series.