Britain v the US who has the best comic writers, I choose you Alan Moore

[Whirlysplat]

In recent years all the best writers seem to be British. Weird huh, we lost the war of independance but we reinvented your only true art forms. A bit like the Beatles did with Rock n Roll. ;) At least you had Warhol :confused:

[LexCorp]

In recent years all the best writers seem to be British. Weird huh, we lost the war of independance but we reinvented your only true art forms. A bit like the Beatles did with Rock n Roll. ;)

Yeah lost the war but the USA hasn't exactly done much with it's freedom.

[Xofenroht]

Aww cripes...I'm going to have to go with Neil Gaiman, out of sworn allegiance.

[TheCorpulent1]

Pound-for-pound, I'd go with Britain (or the UK in general, if you're counting guys like Ennis and Millar). Moore and Gaiman are pretty much enough to settle it right there. Who does the US have that compare to those two?

[The Question]

The UK've got Moore, Gaiman, Millar, Morrison, Ennis, and Ellis. That group right there would make the greatest comic company anyone would have the honor of reading. The only U.S. writers who I think might compete are Miller, Waid, and Loeb.

[KingOfDreams]

Well, since Neil Gaiman is my favorite comic book writer I have to say that Britain wins.

[Whirlysplat]

Well, since Neil Gaiman is my favorite comic book writer I have to say that Britain wins.

I went to Gaimans book signing in Charing Cross road around Christmas time and sneaked my copy of Sandman 1 in for him to sign as well. :) He was at the Bookshop opposuite Foyles although the name eludes me right now.

:supes: - Whirly

[KingOfDreams]

Awesome. I would love to meet the man and have my Sandman Vol. 1 tpb signed by him.

[The Question]

Gaiman was at a comic convention in a town near mine, and ate dinner in the Japanese resturant I like to go to. I wasn't there, but the owner of my comic shop was. Talked to him. Said he was a nice guy.

[LibrarianThorne]

Don't discount the US, now. It's got Siegel, Shuster, Bob Kane, Elliot S! Maggin, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Jim Steranko, Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, and Frank Miller.

[KingOfDreams]

Yeah. I don't know, Stan the Man might just trump all considering all the characters he created.

[Sandman138]

We also have Speigleman and McCloud. That said, the combined might of Gaiman, Ellis, Ennis, and Moore just comes out on top.

[TheCorpulent1]

Hmm... I hadn't thought about past creators. America's got Eisner, Joe Kubert, and Kirby...

Isn't Spiegelman German or Polish? I was under the impression that he's certainly not American, which would take him out of the running for US writers.

[LibrarianThorne]

We also have Speigleman and McCloud. That said, the combined might of Gaiman, Ellis, Ennis, and Moore just comes out on top.

The question, I think, comes down to the characters. The US, with Bob Kane, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Siegel & Shuster, created the characters and stories that inspired Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.

Reading Astro City, The Fourth World, Waid's run on Fantastic Four, and other American-penned classics, I really think the US takes it. Sure, only Frank Miller has written a story that (in the opinion of most, mind) competes with the Watchmen or the Sandman. But Americans created Marvels and Kingdom Come. Americans created Astro City and Batman and Spider-Man.

I love Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, and Ellis' stuff is some of the best out there, but you can't face down Stan & Jack and Siegel & Shuster and the mythos they created.

[Sandman138]

Speigelman was born in Sweden, but he grew up Rego Park in Queens. He's American, and he certianly identifies as a New Yorker.

[Sandman138]

The question, I think, comes down to the characters. The US, with Bob Kane, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Siegel & Shuster, created the characters and stories that inspired Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.

Only in the vaguest sense. Eisner, now there's a man who inspired all of them. Lee, Kane, and Siegel? Not so much.

Reading Astro City, The Fourth World, Waid's run on Fantastic Four, and other American-penned classics, I really think the US takes it. Sure, only Frank Miller has written a story that (in the opinion of most, mind) competes with the Watchmen or the Sandman. But Americans created Marvels and Kingdom Come. Americans created Astro City and Batman and Spider-Man.

Out of those, Astro City is the only one that comes close to the work of UK artists. Now Maus, there's competition. Most of the superhero work was formulaic, and lacked variety. There was a long period of time where you could pick up a Superman, Batman, or Spider-Man comic and see no difference in the way that they told the story.

I love Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, and Ellis' stuff is some of the best out there, but you can't face down Stan & Jack and Siegel & Shuster and the mythos they created.

Watch me

[Sandman138]

Hmm... I hadn't thought about past creators. America's got Eisner, Joe Kubert, and Kirby...

Isn't Spiegelman German or Polish? I was under the impression that he's certainly not American, which would take him out of the running for US writers.

Eisner would put the US on top, hands down. However, I think this is about modern writers.

EDIT: On further consideration, I think it's fair to call Eisner a modern writer despite his recent passing. US on top then.

[Xofenroht]

Eisner is GREAT...

...but if someone made me choose, it would be either Gaiman or Moore.

[Whirlysplat]

We did give you guys John Byrne and what made me laugh is......

You took him. :)

[Sandman138]

Eisner is GREAT...

...but if someone made me choose, it would be either Gaiman or Moore.

I don't know about that. The Contract With God Trilogy, City People Notebook, Last Day In Vietnam are by far some of the greates works of sequential art ever made. The Spirit will always be my favorite "superhero". Eisner, along with Jerry Iger, also started Kane, Kirby, and Lou Fine on their careers. Sandman may be my all time favorite graphic novel, but Eisner was, in my opinion, the authority on the medium. Since he died only recently, and since he worked right up to his death, I think it would be fair to consider him a part of the modern US comics creators. Combined with Speigelman and McCloud (Boston baby!!!) I'd say that puts the US at the same level as the UK, if not above it.

[Whirlysplat]

I don't know about that. The Contract With God Trilogy, City People Notebook, Last Day In Vietnam are by far some of the greates works of sequential art ever made. The Spirit will always be my favorite "superhero". Eisner, along with Jerry Iger, also started Kane, Kirby, and Lou Fine on their careers. Sandman may be my all time favorite graphic novel, but Eisner was, in my opinion, the authority on the medium. Since he died only recently, and since he worked right up to his death, I think it would be fair to consider him a part of the modern US comics creators. Combined with Speigelman and McCloud (Boston baby!!!) I'd say that puts the US at the same level as the UK, if not above it.

Will all due respect the strips you are talking about are not the same as the deconstrctionist post modernism spin of Moore and the UK crew and whilst groundbreaking at the time are not on a level with twenty year old works like the Watchmen.

- Whirly

[Sandman138]

Bull****. You look at how those stories were told, not just content, and you'll find levels upon levels of complexity.

[Nasty-B]

If we look at it in terms of the amount of influential comic writers in relation to population, then the UK takes it hands down. The UK has about 1/10th the population of the US, yet in the past two decades it has produced at least as many, if not more, ground-breaking writers than we have. This shouldn't be surprising considering that this is the country that gave us Shakespeare, William Blake, George Orwell and all those other dead guys that we have to read about in English class. Of course if you want to talk about great comic artists, then I think the US has it no constest. Regardless, kudos to you Brits for helping to advance the medium.

[Elijya]

I agree that if you go by ratio, the UK certainly tops, but on the overall, more good and excellent work has come out of the US

[TheCorpulent1]

If we look at it in terms of the amount of influential comic writers in relation to population, then the UK takes it hands down. The UK has about 1/10th the population of the US, yet in the past two decades it has produced at least as many, if not more, ground-breaking writers than we have. This shouldn't be surprising considering that this is the country that gave us Shakespeare, William Blake, George Orwell and all those other dead guys that we have to read about in English class. Of course if you want to talk about great comic artists, then I think the US has it no constest. Regardless, kudos to you Brits for helping to advance the medium.
If we're going into artists, the UK's still not too shabby. Alan Davis, Bryan Hitch, Dave Gibbons, Dave McKean, and many other really, really great artists are from the UK.

[Whirlysplat]

I agree that if you go by ratio, the UK certainly tops, but on the overall, more good and excellent work has come out of the US

Like?

I remember reading ten year old Lee and Kirby in reprint in the seventies it did not hold up in the same way 20 year old Moore does today in my opinion.

Bull****. You look at how those stories were told, not just content, and you'll find levels upon levels of complexity.

I don't disagree, I just don't think you'll find the same levels Moore et al have.

- Whirly

[TheCorpulent1]

I read Eisner's Contract With God story recently and found it quite relevant, almost thirty years after it was first published. Moore and Gaiman probably have more works that stand the test of time, but Eisner and others are still no slouches.

[Xofenroht]

Exactly my point. But standing from where I am today, Neil Gaiman is the best, then there's Alan Moore, afterwhich comes Eisner, then Lee. Neil Gaiman, I will always back up, because he's my favorite and without his works I would never have had my interest in comicbook writing peak like it has.
Aside from that, you have to cut some of these guys some slack in comparing them to legends like Eisner. Eisner was what...80-something when he passed away? Still writing at that age and still shoving these things out to the masses. None of the people we're comparing to him have even hit 70 yet, which means that's at least leaving them 30-40 years behind.
Besides, Neil winning the World Fantasy Award for best Short Story with Sandman #19 (I think) speaks multitudes. Sure Eisner was a GREAT influence on his and the work of many others, but the fact that this was accomplished only once and may never be accomplished again cannot be ignored. The greatest students surpass the teacher...

[Sandman138]

Also getting his book on the NY Times Bestseller list. I'm not trying to degrade Gaiman (I mean come on, it's me we're talking about here). It's just that the question was who has turned out the best comic writers, and with the US having Eisner, Speigelman, and McCloud I feel that they are at least on the level of Gaiman, Moore, and Ellis.

[Whirlysplat]

The US also had in the early/ mid seventies Scwhartzs Batman run, still in my opinion better than Miller. It amazes me though in these discussions no one mentions that incredibly underrated child writer and eventual editor in chief at Marvel, creator of Valiant and other companies Jim Shooter. He wrote some gold for the time he was writing.

[TheFalcon]

From the thread title and first post I think the thread starter is talking about writers active today.

I also agree with him that UK writers come out on top. The americans have been closing in lately with guys like Johns, Rucka and Vaughan, but UK has Grant Morrison and Alan Moore as well as many other great writers so they take the top spot.

[Whirlysplat]

From the thread title and first post I think the thread starter is talking about writers active today.

I also agree with him that UK writers come out on top. The americans have been closing in lately with guys like Johns, Rucka and Vaughan, but UK has Grant Morrison and Alan Moore as well as many other great writers so they take the top spot.

I was but even I went off ata tangent :lol: It's so easy to do, but that was my initial idea.

- Whirly

[Xofenroht]

The US also had in the early/ mid seventies Scwhartzs Batman run, still in my opinion better than Miller. It amazes me though in these discussions no one mentions that incredibly underrated child writer and eventual editor in chief at Marvel, creator of Valiant and other companies Jim Shooter. He wrote some gold for the time he was writing.

You're referring to "Prince Valiant" right? I liked that strip.

[Whirlysplat]

You're referring to "Prince Valiant" right? I liked that strip.

No, "Valiant" it was an independant company in the early 90's set up by Shooter, Layton and others using new and old "Gold Key" characters. After some problems he then created another Universe inside a year - the Defiant Universe with original titles like "Warriors of Plasm".

NB. I also liked Prince Valiant.

- Whirly

[Nasty-B]

I miss Valiant, they had some really interesting characters and a very coherently ordered universe.

[TheCorpulent1]

From the thread title and first post I think the thread starter is talking about writers active today.
From the thread title, I thought the thread starter was talking about Pokemon.

[Whirlysplat]

From the thread title, I thought the thread starter was talking about Pokemon.

You got that huh?

I miss Valiant, they had some really interesting characters and a very coherently ordered universe.

Acclaims take on those characters was not as good in my opinion.

:)

- Whirly