You will believe a man can fly...that was then, this is NOW!?? [Archive]

Naite22

04-12-2006, 12:39 PM

I just saw ALL of the special features on the "SUPERMAN THE MOVIE" special edition dvd last night, and boy oh boy are they great! Love the three documentaries called "Taking Flight" - "Filming the legend" and "The Magic behind the cape"... they are so insightful, and it gave me goosebums for all the incredible special effects and such that was developed specifficly for that movie.. They really stressed that they did things with this film that had NEVER before been seen, mainly making every one believe that a man really could fly!

Now, there was a peace within these documentaries that explained the tag-line for the movie "You'll believe a man can Fly"... They knew that that speciffic tag-line wasn't JUST a line.. It had crusial MEANING. In other words it said that they had done things that had never before been possible or never before been seen in the history of movies (and they were right!) If you didn't truely believe that superman was actually flying on screen, then they had NO MOVIE! This is superman, and superman CAN FLY. Therefor if that didn't work, nothing else would... They pulled it off... Incredibly they pulled it off back in 1978, and to this date NOTHING compares to what was done in Superman 1! Lord of the Rings, King Kong GO HOME!!! What I'm trying to get across here is the fact that this movie was so big in every way...HOW ON EARTH WILL RETURNS LIVE UP TO THAT??? Can it live up to that?

Bryan said that his imaginary tag-line for RETURNS was "You'll believe a whole lot more is possible!"... What will RETURNS bring on, that we haven't seen in other movies? What will be revolutional for this epic picture (if any)? Bryan also said that they will have characters doing things in this movie that has never before been seen in that size of scope. What could he mean? What will be so damn special? Will RETURNS truely fly?

SolidSnakeMGS

04-12-2006, 01:14 PM

I have my doubts about the film, but one thing I am not concerned with is the special effects and how convincing Superman's flying will be. I have no doubts they'll nail that. As long as we see Routh adjusting his arms like Reeve did in-flight we should be ok. In fact, I saw a 'Bryan's Journal' where they talked exactly about that, so I'm not worried.

ROBOCOP CPU001

04-12-2006, 01:16 PM

No matter how good the effects..Rich donner said as much..chris Reeve made him think a man can fly. not the effects.

but listen to what they say in the previs blog.. (brandon is so great we hope we can live up to him)

I would say..we have nothing to worry about.

afan

04-12-2006, 01:51 PM

The flying effects in Superman the Movie were indeed sold by the performance of Reeve(just as George Reeves sold the flying in the effect handicapped Adventures of Superman), but even more important than an individual performance is the presence of the human actor in a majority of the flight FX.

The technology available to Donner dictated the methodology, but today it would be all to easy to succumb to the temptation of CGI for Superman's flights, however it would seem from the knowledge we have and the photographic evidence available that for the most part Routh will do most of the "flying". And that is a good thing for us.

Scooter

04-12-2006, 02:00 PM

Like others have said, Reeve sold the effects, not the other way around. Some of the special effects in that movie weren't even up to par for that time, and most of them have aged poorly.

djkris

04-12-2006, 02:00 PM

ROBOCOP CPU001

04-12-2006, 02:01 PM

well the only people to ask are the people who watched the footage of supes flying..did routh pull it off?

Showtime

04-12-2006, 02:02 PM

Routh doesn't have to sell the effects now though, it's not the 70's and 80's anymore.

ROBOCOP CPU001

04-12-2006, 02:05 PM

Routh doesn't have to sell the effects now though, it's not the 70's and 80's anymore.

I think he does..i never believed that keanu reeves could fly in the matrix..

dark_b

04-12-2006, 02:09 PM

I think he does..i never believed that keanu reeves could fly in the matrix..but he didnt fly. ;). it was not real hehehehhehe h he:eek:

Showtime

04-12-2006, 02:11 PM

I think he does..i never believed that keanu reeves could fly in the matrix..

I guess you're right, the difference is that I didn't expect much out of Keanu, but this is Superman. I guess I want him to sell the flying even more, so I have to backtrack.

ROBOCOP CPU001

04-12-2006, 02:27 PM

I know..just trying to make a point..that its the actor who sells it..not the effects.

M.E.H.Z.E.B

04-12-2006, 02:32 PM

I think its divided... 50% of the believability depends on the actor... and the other 50% on the effects. I have faith in the special effects... Routh is still a resounding "IF"...

SolidSnakeMGS

04-12-2006, 02:36 PM

I know..just trying to make a point..that its the actor who sells it..not the effects.

Co-signed. :up::up:

wobbly

04-12-2006, 02:56 PM

I think advances in techniques today can help the actor more so than when Reeve did it, who looked so natural in the wirework he did live up to the movies tagline (a lot of wirework you'll see in other flicks looks cumbersome and all too obvious by comparison). Basically Reeves take offs, landings and body language in flight seemed so effortlessly smooth he did make it feel real (favorite shots in the original movie are his taking off from the Planet rooftop after saving Lois & the fly-by past the office windows). Remains to be seen how well Routh will compare but it's fair to say his predesessor set a very high bench-mark.

dark_b

04-12-2006, 03:01 PM

to be honest routh can not be worst. only better .after all he can now look at reeve and correct hes mistakes. it was harder with reeve because he was teh first one.

Naite22

04-12-2006, 03:16 PM

Stuff like Supes flying will be as realistic as possible.

Having him lifting tons of weight either standing on the ground or in mid-flight, will also look realistic (not like hanging from cranes or something)

Heat vision will look better.

I personally expect SR to revolutionize the use of camera. The nature of Superman films plus the skill Singer's, I expect the movie to have some innovative shots.
Incredible... The point of this thread was to discuss what "might" be a true revolutional step up the latter in film-making(if any).. It wasn't to discuss wether or not Routh can "fly good".. That's exactly what I mentioned in the beginner post, Reeve already did that.. In 1978, they made every one believe a man can fly.. That's honnestly not too hard today (although the flying in the matrix sequels looked like crap and total cgi mania!) But for 1978 that was a HUUUGE leap in film techknowlegy.. What I'm asking is if there will be something just as revolutional in RETURNS??? Something to make THAT MOVIE stand out just as the first superman movie did.. So far no one has got a clue to what might be in store.. The only one even hinting at something that could make this movie stand out is djkris who's post I've added in this one... Doesn't any one have an idea to what we might see?? Other than the flying (cause that HAS to be in place)

grabmygladys

04-12-2006, 03:42 PM

Well I happened to think Clark flying in the season premiere episode of Smallville was incredibly impressive. I have no doubt they will blow us away.

Andy C.

04-12-2006, 03:48 PM

SuperDaniel

04-12-2006, 04:07 PM

I think in this movie we`ll see Superman using his powers much more than in the Reeve`s movies....

Naite22

04-12-2006, 04:33 PM

Well I happened to think Clark flying in the season premiere episode of Smallville was incredibly impressive. I have no doubt they will blow us away.
I 110% agree.. That WAS veeeery impressive indeed!:up: Especially when you take in the fact that it's "just" a tv-show... It looked so bad-ass:eek:
Many of my friends are asking why he doesn't fly more in the series, when they can do it so well.. My answer to that one is, that it WASN'T EASY! I'll bet you that they put in a whooole lot of work for that one sequence... They dont have time to do that for every single episode.. It was at the begining of season 4 he flew wasn't it?? or was it season 3, I can't remember.. All I remember was that it was when he was reborn and came back as Kal-El, with no recollection of his life as Clark Kent.. It was so cool, no one can take that away from them!

I'm sure that the flying in Returns will be more than impressive, I only hope that we get a fair taste of it in the up-coming trailer:)

Naite22

04-12-2006, 04:37 PM

Well Naite, what exactly is it that you want? Special effects have pretty much reached their peak when it comes to conventional FX and CGI. There have been countless films since the S:TM that have likewise "revolutionized" the effects industry, and the hard truth of the matter is that the audience has become so accustomed to effects-heavy movies (such as LotR) that they're hardly special anymore. Having a guy fly around or lift big objects isn't anything new; hell, there are fan-made movies that can pull that off to a convincing degree now.

What's important about this movie isn't the effects themselves, but the context in which they're used.
Actually I have NO idea what I expect you people to say:)... I just hoped there was some HARDCORE-geeks in here that could maybe tell a little of what they expect Returns to deliever.. Maybe they knew something most of us dont..?.. heck I dont know, I just needed to make a thread:)... I have no doubt that the flying in RETURNS will be revolutional in MANY ways.

SuperDaniel

04-12-2006, 05:36 PM

Naite22

04-12-2006, 07:19 PM

I thought that Welling was so stiff and motionless...Too much Matrix for my tastes so i was kinda disappointed with the flying in Smallville...The plane was obvious CGI. However, the scene in this season where Clark goes after the missile was much better in my opinion...That made me :eek:!!
That rocked also!:)... I thought the flying in SmallVille looked much much better than in the Matrix movies, which is big blocbuster films.. Therefor it was so impressive what they acomplished in smallville... I think SmallVille (just like with X-Files back in the days) is the most bad-ass series. When they revolve around Clark and his destiny the series couldn't be more successful.. But who cares about Lana's dead parents and all of that other Dawson's Creek BS.. Just with X-Files (for comparisons sake) I think the series was so damn cool.. I loved everything that had to do with Extra Terrestrials/ufo's and all that stuff. That was the central core of the show, and I LOVED THAT! They should stay on what they know works.. I could sum the entire SmallVille series down to 15-20 favorite episodes if I had too. They should really stop when this season is over, however many say that there will be a 6'th season.. They should really rap things up now.. It's getting a little too lame.

Whack Arnolds

04-12-2006, 07:24 PM

The flying effects for Superman weren't all that special, lol.

Naite22

04-12-2006, 07:25 PM

The flying effects for Superman weren't all that special, lol.
Yeah I have to agree, they sucked royaly....:)

Casius--J

04-12-2006, 07:28 PM

I personally thought the flyin in smallville was better than the matrix movies too. When i first saw them i was like woa lets see more of this!!

I have no doubt that the special effects will be amazing in this film and will be very convincing.

SuperDaniel

04-12-2006, 07:41 PM

The flying effects for Superman weren't all that special, lol.
What? It was made in 1978 and they still endure till today!! Yes they were VERY special and well done! The flying in the MaTRIX was lame and stupid. Too much CGI.

Scenes like Superman taking off the fortress of solitude, grabing the helicopter, taking off and waving goodbye to Lois Lane and the little girl, Superman with Lois, doing a loop in midle air and changing direction. The effects are still good even for today`s standards.

Naite22

04-12-2006, 07:47 PM

What? It was made in 1978 and they still endure till today!! Yes they were VERY special and well done! The flying in the MaTRIX was lame and stupid. Too much CGI.

Scenes like Superman taking off the fortress of solitude, grabing the helicopter, taking off and waving goodbye to Lois Lane and the little girl, Superman with Lois, doing a loop in midle air and changing direction. The effects are still good even for today`s standards.
How right you are my friend:)... But I think he ment it as a joke.. If not, I'll hurt himhttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Naite22

04-12-2006, 07:49 PM

The most bad-ass flying shot (for me) in STM is when he's about to save the train (I think it is) and you see him flying over canyons I think it is, and he does this loop thingy and the camera follows him.. It looks so cool!! I love that movie!

SuperDaniel

04-13-2006, 02:47 AM

Thats the loop i`m talking about...
http://www.christopherreevelegacy.com/gallery/images/Donner-years/superfeats/dambreak/flight-bank2.jpg

Bale

04-13-2006, 03:51 AM

Thats the loop i`m talking about...
http://www.christopherreevelegacy.com/gallery/images/Donner-years/superfeats/dambreak/flight-bank2.jpg

Wow cool.

dark_b

04-13-2006, 04:00 AM

i really want to see rouht flying. thats the only reason i am waitign for this trailer . because i want to see a clip of him flying in the clouds.

Mentok

04-13-2006, 05:13 AM

I personally thought the flyin in smallville was better than the matrix movies too. When i first saw them i was like woa lets see more of this!!.

Huh? You mean Kal/Clark flying after the Jet?

That sucked big time.

dark_b

04-13-2006, 05:15 AM

the flying in the matrix was very CGI. but saying that in smallville it looked better is just insane. sorry but this is not right.

Casius--J

04-13-2006, 06:09 AM

Huh? You mean Kal/Clark flying after the Jet?

That sucked big time.

Nah i really thought it looked good!

Nivek

04-13-2006, 07:43 AM

Nah i really thought it looked good!

Watch for films. The Peter Pan remake from a couple years ago had awesome flying effects and wirework in it.

You can see Smallvilles budget when they do FX shots.

SolidSnakeMGS

04-13-2006, 12:00 PM

Thats the loop i`m talking about...
http://www.christopherreevelegacy.com/gallery/images/Donner-years/superfeats/dambreak/flight-bank2.jpg

I was going to try and post an .avi of this but I couldn't figure out how to capture video from my DVD-ROM. This is one of my favorite flying bits. It's two parts, after he flies downward (as above), the camera changes for him to fly towards the camera.

It's such a great shot. I hope they 'redo' this one in SR as an homage.

dark_b

04-13-2006, 12:05 PM

Watch for films. The Peter Pan remake from a couple years ago had awesome flying effects and wirework in it.

You can see Smallvilles budget when they do FX shots.is there a lot of flying in the peter pan movie?

i remember when i was a kid and i watched the movie hook. the flying looked great.

Cinemaman

04-13-2006, 12:09 PM

I think they will make something greater than we saw before.

I hope so.

Metropolis_Man

04-13-2006, 10:29 PM

is there a lot of flying in the peter pan movie?

i remember when i was a kid and i watched the movie hook. the flying looked great.

Yeah, Hook is a great movie. The flying did look really good.

Whack Arnolds

04-13-2006, 10:32 PM

How right you are my friend:)... But I think he ment it as a joke.. If not, I'll hurt himhttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gifLOL, it was tongue in cheek. The effects were good for its time, but it certainly looks terribly dated today. You can practically visualize the wires holding him. You can't get a sense of propulsion or momentum with it at all. Looking at it from today's standards, and I just saw the movies for the first time last year, it looks incredibly fake and cheesy.

Metropolis_Man

04-13-2006, 11:02 PM

Thats the loop i`m talking about...
http://www.christopherreevelegacy.com/gallery/images/Donner-years/superfeats/dambreak/flight-bank2.jpg

Wow, that is a really great shot. I loved that part in the movie. I also hope we get to some some flying angles like this in Returns.

zanos

04-14-2006, 02:57 AM

SolidSnakeMGS

04-14-2006, 03:19 AM

Singer will have a hard enough time convincing ppl he's a competent filmmaker. Forget about trying to live up to Superman the movie. All you have to do is look to the X-Men movies to see how inept he is with characters and staying faithful to the source.

Weird, because he's apparently already proven it. REGARDLESS of your opinion on his respect to source integrity, three of the four films he has directed were very well recieved critically and two of those films, the X-Men films, also did extremely well at the box office. He's also won many awards and award nominations for his filmmaking skills.

He is MORE than a competent filmmaker. His ability to make a good movie is seperate from his ability to keep the integrity of the original story which is pretty debateable.

Gaurav Sharma

04-14-2006, 04:11 AM

Hey, I too watched the DVD yesterday and the effects even after all the CGI I have seen in Matrix, Spider Man, Hulk, seemed brilliant. Admittedly there are scenes where they look dated and maybe less than convincing but certainly not fake and cheesy. In fact, SM still remains a classic because of the human aspect it had in those flying scenes, where as Hulk even with all those heavy CGI effects fades into oblivion. Hopefully, Singer would avoid too much reliance on CGI and stick to real effects as much as possible. CGI should really be used for scenes which are physically impossible to achieve and should be a supportive rather than a dominant technology.

Gaurav Sharma

04-14-2006, 04:12 AM

Double post

djkris

04-14-2006, 07:33 AM

It can be a great movie. It wishes to be. It only lacks the trailer to show them the way.

:D Great sig, SolidSnakeMGS!

dark_b

04-14-2006, 07:36 AM

djkric awsome :). we need the trailer .............we need .

Brian Braddock

04-14-2006, 10:40 AM

Yeah, Hook is a great movie. The flying did look really good.

Not Hook (although the flying was good at points) - I think he's talking about the Peter Pan film from a couple of years ago. I had to endure that piece of rubbish as an in-flight movie when I was coming back off holiday. Horrible film but the flight stuff was really well done and made me wish for a new Superman film even more.

My favourite Reeve flying is after he drops the cat-burglar off to the beat-cop in 'S:the movie' and he banks just as he goes past the camera, when he waves goodbye to Lois atop the Dailey Planet and the loop that was mentioned previously.

I'm 100% convinced that we will see some really convincing, unhindered flying in Superman Returns.

Nivek

04-14-2006, 11:50 AM

Yeah, Hook is a great movie. The flying did look really good.

Yeah, I was talking about the actual Peter Pan live action film from a couple years ago, not Hook. The movie was kinda "meh" but the live action flight FX in it were damn impressive. The characters looked like they were flying, and not always simply weightless.

AsteroidMan

04-14-2006, 12:48 PM

What's important about this movie isn't the effects themselves, but the context in which they're used.

Truer words have never been spoken!

Naite22

04-14-2006, 01:36 PM

Thats the loop i`m talking about...
http://www.christopherreevelegacy.com/gallery/images/Donner-years/superfeats/dambreak/flight-bank2.jpg
That's EXACTLY the loop I ment toohttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
It looks so freaken bad-ass the way he flies in that shot!!! And just look how real it actually looks!:):up:

Nivek

04-14-2006, 02:34 PM

But they can do backgrounds better now, and better incorperate wind and blur effects better as well. Im very eager to see what they do now.

Naite22

04-17-2006, 10:46 PM

The new trailer had better show off just how incredible and utterly COOL it'll look like when supes fly!! Or else I'll hang my self.

SolidSnakeMGS

04-17-2006, 10:53 PM

The new trailer had better show off just how incredible and utterly COOL it'll look like when supes fly!! Or else I'll hang my self.

I don't even want to know what you'll do if the actual film is bad. :eek:

Not to worry. I think we'll get a nice balance of story and action in the trailer, not that hackjob of a trailer for X3. I still think the SR teaser is one of the best out there as it leaves you wanting much more, which is what it's supposed to do.

Naite22

04-17-2006, 11:28 PM

I don't even want to know what you'll do if the actual film is bad.

Not to worry. I think we'll get a nice balance of story and action in the trailer, not that hackjob of a trailer for X3. I still think the SR teaser is one of the best out there as it leaves you wanting much more, which is what it's supposed to do.
I agree 110%!:up: The teaser for SR is something I nearly cried over the first time seeing it.. Everyone complaining that it didn't show enough only goes through the aggrevation of a mad post BECAUSE they truely WANT to see more! This new trailer will knock all others out of the water!:eek: :up:

Kevin Roegele

04-18-2006, 03:20 AM

Superman Returns - 'You'll believe a man can be CGI'. :(

SuperDaniel

04-18-2006, 03:33 AM

^^^^:rolleyes:

SolidSnakeMGS

04-18-2006, 12:21 PM

Superman Returns - 'You'll believe a man can be CGI'. :(

I doubt it. They have lots of harnesses and machines to make him fly via wires, so that's what we'll see the most of. I'm sure they're taking a lessson from Spider-Man in that you don't want to have the character CGI because it looks fake (although people weren't too mad and the films killed at the BO). In fact, people will probably be saying something is CGI because it seems impossible with using a real person, when in fact it is probably real.

ROBOCOP CPU001

04-18-2006, 12:26 PM

From the report on the footage shown at show west.

superman flys down the street cape flapping.. its look photo realistic.

:up:

Hunter Rider

04-18-2006, 01:10 PM

From what i read they have devised some mannerisms for Supes when he is flying so Routh doesn't look static and rigid
I'm sure the SFX will be great and i am glad they haven't rushed a trailer out with unfinished effects,the key though will be that Singer will use the effects to drive the story rather than as "Wow" moments,at least that is my hope