Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Boom]

It happened without changing directors. Look at the dramatic difference between the two Burton movies. It just got to the point where it became a joke.
The change in the Burton costumes wasn't very drastic. It certainly didn't ruin continuity, if that's what you're arguing.

[Darkest Knight]

The change in the Burton costumes wasn't very drastic. It certainly didn't ruin continuity, if that's what you're arguing.
Yeah there was. Gotham looked and felt completely different. In B89, it looked like one giant hell hole. Rust, rotting, urban sprawl. The city had character. In Returns it was "german expressionism" or whatever, and everything looked clean and neat. Naked men statues all of a sudden popped up, etc. The costume itself changed dramatically. Different chest symbol, completely different look to the costume, etc. Burton has gone on record as saying he wasn't trying to make it a sequel. So yes, continuity wasn't "ruined", because it wasn't there at all. It ruined some of the sense of it being a continued story. It didn't feel the same ata ll.

[Saint]

Yeah there was. Gotham looked and felt completely different. In B89, it looked like one giant hell hole. Rust, rotting, urban sprawl. The city had character. In Returns it was "german expressionism" or whatever, and everything looked clean and neat.
Not really. The look for both of Burton's films was pretty much Art Deco--the only difference being that Batman Returns explored the city more thoroughly. Bigger sets, more detailed design and art direction, and so on.

Naked men statues all of a sudden popped up, etc.
Not till Batman Forever, I'm afraid.

The costume itself changed dramatically. Different chest symbol, completely different look to the costume, etc.
Hyperbole. The changes to that costume were minor at best, and perfectly within reason for a hero who is obviously going to update his equipment on a regular basis. Basically, this "Batman should always wear the same costume" attitude just isn't practical. Batman has always and will always strive for better equipment, and that means the suit is going to change from time to time. This "it ruins continuity" argument is laughable. How does Batman building himself a better batsuit ruin continuity? It's a fairly simple concept to understand.

It didn't feel the same ata ll.
Ridiculous. Stop exaggerating.

[Boom]

Hyperbole. The changes to that costume were minor at best, and perfectly within reason for a hero who is obviously going to update his equipment on a regular basis. Basically, this "Batman should always wear the same costume" attitude just isn't practical. Batman has always and will always strive for better equipment, and that means the suit is going to change from time to time. This "it ruins continuity" argument is laughable. How does Batman building himself a better batsuit ruin continuity? It's a fairly simple concept to understand.
That's essentially what I was trying to get at.

Why would Batman keep the same suit from Batman Begins if it becomes outdated?

[lujho]

The very idea that he wouldn't have to replace parts of the suit ALL THE TIME (how long do you think a glove would last, or that paintjob on the suit) is silly, and there's nothing stopping him keeping every component exactly the same whenever he fixes/replaces it. realistically the suit would naturally change as time went by, unless he really tried to keep it exactly the same.

The suit's going to wear out, get damaged, or just plain be superseded by new technology. I mean, once a piece of armour is actually hit by a bullet, it's no good - which really makes a one-piece design a little impractical - modular design is better. It's unrealistic for the suit to stay the same unless he has an endless supply of ALL the components. As far as we know, he's got 10000 cowl shells (and ONLY the skull-cap looking shells - not the whole cowl). He's got 2 gauntlets, one suit and one belt. If he wants to look the same forever, he better be damn careful.

It's unrealistic for the suit NOT to change a little. Changes do not ruin continuity at all. The only way a different looking suit would ruin continuity would be if they actually pretended it was the same one - i.e. they retconned the design, which they wouldn't do.

[batman44]

:up: I with Saint, Lujho, and Boom on this one.

[Darkest Knight]

Not really. The look for both of Burton's films was pretty much Art Deco--the only difference being that Batman Returns explored the city more thoroughly. Bigger sets, more detailed design and art direction, and so on.
Both were art deco, but they had completely different looks and feels to the city. How do you not notice a visible difference between Gotham in B89 and in Returns? You are ignoring it for the sake of your argument if you don't acknowledge it.

Not till Batman Forever, I'm afraid.
I'm afraid you're wrong. Go watch Returns again. You know the place where the entire movie takes place, in that small ass town square? Where magically everything in this HUGE city takes place? Yeah, there is naked men statues pulling huge rods or levers.

:dry:

Someone post a screen cap of the penguins walking into gotham plaza... cause they are there. Thank Burton, and German Expressionism. LMAO

Hyperbole. The changes to that costume were minor at best, and perfectly within reason for a hero who is obviously going to update his equipment on a regular basis.
Actually, it was significantly different from film to film. Main purpose? To sell toys.

Basically, this "Batman should always wear the same costume" attitude just isn't practical.
I never said this. I don't mind changes, as long as they are for PRACTICAL reasons, and the look of Batman keeps a similar theme, with no radical changes. Bruce wanting to update his costume in terms of practicality standards is perfectly within reason. But why in doing so would he change the fashion or look of the costume as well?

Batman has always and will always strive for better equipment, and that means the suit is going to change from time to time.
That I have no problem with. But to change the look, just for the sake of changing the look is an entirely different matter. And something that is pointless. Batman isn't a model, this isn't a fashion statement.

This "it ruins continuity" argument is laughable. How does Batman building himself a better batsuit ruin continuity?
Because a different costume creates a different feel, and a different look. All play together to making something feel different, when it should be a continuation. Not something seperate.

It's a fairly simple concept to understand.
Oh, it is very easy to understand. Especially when done for the right reasons. But like the Spider-man movies, it is intregal to keep a similar look to the costume through out the movies. Minor changes are acceptable. But keeping a similar look subtely build rapport with the audience. If it looks similar, it feels familar. It doesn't feel like an altered character and universe. That's why in a trilogy, or drawn out story it is important to keep the look of the universe similar and the look of the characters similar to how they were in previous chapters of the story.

Ridiculous. Stop exaggerating.
Ummm, that is exactly what Burton was aiming for. I'm not exaggerating anything. He said he wanted a new take on it. Watch the damn special features to Returns.

[Saint]

Both were art deco, but they had completely different looks and feels to the city. How do you not notice a visible difference between Gotham in B89 and in Returns? You are ignoring it for the sake of your argument if you don't acknowledge it.
I accounted for the differences in my post.


Actually, it was significantly different from film to film. Main purpose? To sell toys.
It had a re-tooled torso and a streamlined symbol. Same suit by any reasonable terms.

I never said this. I don't mind changes, as long as they are for PRACTICAL reasons, and the look of Batman keeps a similar theme, with no radical changes.
Sounds like Batman Returns to me.

Bruce wanting to update his costume in terms of practicality standards is perfectly within reason. But why in doing so would he change the fashion or look of the costume as well?
Because aesthetics are important, especially to a hero who uses them as a tool. As perception of Batman changes, so does the use of the suit's appearance. If Bruce says "You know, I think this yellow belt isn't working out, I'm going to make it black," that seems pretty reasonable. If he thinks he'll be more frightening with white lenses or longer ears, that's reasonable, too.

Because a different costume creates a different feel, and a different look. All play together to making something feel different, when it should be a continuation. Not something seperate.
Yeah, god forbid the films evolve, right? I'm sorry, but if everything is the same there doesn't seem to be much point in making a sequel. Obviously there are limitations (for example, Batman Forever was out of line, as far as changes go), but in-universe progression is a necessity.

Oh, it is very easy to understand. Especially when done for the right reasons. But like the Spider-man movies, it is intregal to keep a similar look to the costume through out the movies.
Just like Batman Returns.

Ummm, that is exactly what Burton was aiming for. I'm not exaggerating anything. He said he wanted a new take on it. Watch the damn special features to Returns.
I am aware of what he said on the matter, but the changes were simply not radical.

[Infinity9999x]

I never said this. I don't mind changes, as long as they are for PRACTICAL reasons, and the look of Batman keeps a similar theme, with no radical changes. Bruce wanting to update his costume in terms of practicality standards is perfectly within reason. But why in doing so would he change the fashion or look of the costume as well?




This caught my eye, basically for one reason. This reason doesn't really seem to have a basis, because when you get down to it, the begins suit wasn't practical itself. If it was really practial, Batman would cover his mouth and his eyes, and he would find a way to have his keep concealed and not billowing about so someone could grab him/get it stuck on a random obect. But this would drastically change the suit, so they're not going to do that.

See, what they did in Begins was really just take parts of the comic suit and try to explain them to make them seem more "realistic," but when it came down to it, many parts of the suit weren't very realistic or practical. They were just made to seem that way so they could give us a reason for Batman's look.

So arguing against making Batman's comics because of practical reasons really doesn't fit, seeing as how any elements of practicallity added into movies were to try and explain a reason for comicbook elements being introduced into the suit to begin with.

[The Only Woj]

to me, Gotham in Returns looks pretty cartoony. I think the big difference between B89 and Returns was the death of designer Anton Furst. the B89 suit was more organic, didn't look professionally made. Returns suit looked manufactured, mechanical. and the city, B89 looked depression era/gothic, Returns was cartoony gothic. Returns' Gotham looks like it is a bunch of indoor sets. It doesn't feel like a city to me.

As far as a change in costume, I'm fine with it, so long as it's discusses at some point in the movie if it's a drastic change (ie material used). people never really get a good look at Batman anyway, so, really, it would only be us audience members able to see the real difference. however, since they spent so much time explaining the suit in BB, I doubt they'll go the fabric route any time soon. They tested it during BB, and Nolan opted for the neoprene. and, honestly, I really like the suit as is. I would have preferred a little less mechanical body sculpt, but it does make more sense. the only issue they need to fix is the cowl sculpt for the neck and shoulder buldging ... or simply make a cowl already built with a slight head turn in the mold for those specific shots.

[Memphis Slim]

http://www.collorastudios.com/projects/bde/bdepics/bde-4.jpg


http://www.greatamericanink.com/big/41992.jpg


I think Dead End's suit was always the better version of any.......... Reminds me of the Alex Ross Batman.

[Memphis Slim]

http://rossfan.free.fr/perso/batman_1.jpg

[The Only Woj]

http://rossfan.free.fr/perso/batman_1.jpg

Fox: See this?
Bruce: Looks like a grey sweat shirt...
Fox: Yeah.
Bruce: So... it's bullet proof? Hardens when you run a current through it?
Fox: Nope. Just a grey sweat shirt. 100% cotton. Quite flexible. Keeps you warm when it's cold outside.
Bruce (to himself): Yeah. All I need is a stencil and a black sharpie and I'll be ready to fight crime. And then get shot or something and die.

[kenellard]

black rubber vs comic style suit, round #138


DING DING!

[cryptic name]

how about grey rubber? =P

[Darkest Knight]

Fox: See this?
Bruce: Looks like a grey sweat shirt...
Fox: Yeah.
Bruce: So... it's bullet proof? Hardens when you run a current through it?
Fox: Nope. Just a grey sweat shirt. 100% cotton. Quite flexible. Keeps you warm when it's cold outside.
Bruce (to himself): Yeah. All I need is a stencil and a black sharpie and I'll be ready to fight crime. And then get shot or something and die.
CLASSIC...

[Sun_Down]

black rubber vs comic style suit, round #138


DING DING!


They aren't exactly mutually exclusive. You can have a costume that looks like the above suit, but still provides more protection than spandex.

[kenellard]

They aren't exactly mutually exclusive. You can have a costume that looks like the above suit, but still provides more protection than spandex.

That's completely true, however the way this argument usually goes seems to be something like;

"I'd like to see a more comic-faithful suit"

"OOOOOOH SPANDEX!!!!"

"No, that's not what I mean at all"

"OOOOOOOH SPANDEX! GO WATCH BATMAN & ROBIN!!!!111"

And then someone says the word "camp" and it just goes round in circles for about ten pages

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I just prefer him to be decked out in all black.

Just one more thing he'd take from Zorro.

[Nivek]

All I got to point out to everyone, as I did 2 years ago here, that most modern body armor is not rigid and is actually cloth/fiber based. Regardless of what anyone can say about realism, if your talking about what he would wear if the Batman were real, it wouldn't be some full body semi-rigid armor.

[Mr. Socko]

Hopefully the suit only changes a little. Like the clamps, and do something with the jaw line.

[Rynan]

All I got to point out to everyone, as I did 2 years ago here, that most modern body armor is not rigid and is actually cloth/fiber based. Regardless of what anyone can say about realism, if your talking about what he would wear if the Batman were real, it wouldn't be some full body semi-rigid armor.

Yes, but the best body armor is. But it's more than just bullets, he also needs protection from falls, stabs and hard hits. The rigidness of the armor protects him while he doing stuff like...jumping off the roof of police headquaters. Sure, he got a little hurt, but the armor protected him somewhat from the impact. It would've worse if he didn't have it.

That's one thing I liked about begins. They didn't pretend that he could just wear a bullet proof vest and ignore the rest of his injuries. They gave him a suit which would protect him from things that aren't bullets.

[Rynan]

Hopefully the suit only changes a little. Like the clamps, and do something with the jaw line.

I don't know. I always assumed they gave him clasps to prevent him from strangling himself if the cape got caught on something.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Don't forget the costume is fire retardent, too. Otherwsie....Batman had had third degree burns all over his body while also breaking a few ribs from that fall. The armor is what protected him against BOTH.

Also.....something cool....the armor retains the heat, so there is absolutely no heat signature with the costume. So, even through thermal goggles or heat signature radar....Batman would be completley invisible.

[Crooklyn]

...except his mouth and eyes being exposed completely cancels that nifty feature out.

[Muziko]

Hopefully the suit only changes a little. Like the clamps, and do something with the jaw line.

I wont say "take away the clamps completely" but maybe make them smaller and not so overly-mechanical looking... I understand that was technically his "first" batsuit (Batman BEGINS) but... some time has passed, so he can do some minor adjustments and mods here and there.

As far as the jaw line goes... PLEASE do something about it... his head looks so wide in that cowl. The brow section of it is cool - I have no problem with it, in fact, the cowl looks good when he doesn't have it on (the scene where he opens up the wooden wardrobe/closet revealing the cowl...) but when he puts it on - it only looks good from certain angles. Slim the shiznit down a little TDK production. Please and Thank you.

Cambio y Fuera,

Muziko

[Rynan]

...except his mouth and eyes being exposed completely cancels that nifty feature out.

How? The heat produced by his mouth and eyes is minimal at best.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

nah, as we all know most of the heat from our bodies is let out through our mouth and eyes.

[Rynan]

nah, as we all know most of the heat from our bodies is let out through our mouth and eyes.

Somebody's been doing their homework. But anyway, I ment minimal as in a comparison to the rest of the suit. With that little amount of heat to see, it's easy to miss it or loose it on a moving target like Batman, so I wouldn't say that the entire feature is canceled out because of that.

[kenellard]

and so begins the needless over-analysis

[Nepenthes]

Hopefully the suit only changes a little. Like the clamps, and do something with the jaw line.

^ yep these are the only changes I want to see. mouth opening should be wider and square instead of curved....

grey duotone suit I wouldn't really mind, as long as it's a very dark grey

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Rynan......I was being sarcastic.

Man.....we need a sarcasim icon around here. Without a tonal voice, it loses it's magic.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Anyone still looking for the "Dead End" look will be disappointed, I'm sure.

Going for the more spandexy look was something that had to be done in Begins or never. As much as many fans would like to see it, a change now from the body armor of Begins would seem a jarring step down for most people.

The best you could hope for is a slight change of texture and/or color. Even that's highly doubtful.

[Rynan]

Rynan......I was being sarcastic.

I didn't know. These boards can be mine fields at times.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I still don't "get" the comic book look, though. It still in for nostaglic reasons, I'm thinking.

[Saint]

Actually, it's because it's awesome.

[abiwankenobi]

Yeah it is but won't translate well into Nolan's concept. It worked it Dead End in my opinion but that was supposed to look like the comic book.
Nolan isn't going for a comic book look he is going for 'movie look' if that can be a term for a moment.
The suit and cowl are basically going to look the same. All we know to be different is that it will be sleaker or streamlined and have a fabricky look. But like anyone else on here I can't wait to see it.
But yes FOR THE LOVE OF BRUCE SLIM DOWN THAT JAWLINE! Give us Bale and stop trying to make Bale look like a square jawed TAS Batman. He just isn't and that's fine just give us him and make it PRACTICAL! (the jaw line that is)

[Saint]

Yeah it is but won't translate well into Nolan's concept. It worked it Dead End in my opinion but that was supposed to look like the comic book.
I never said anything about looking like Dead End.

[Darkest Knight]

http://www.collorastudios.com/projects/bde/bdepics/bde-4.jpg


Man that suit looks retarded on a real person. Hahaha

[Comic Book Boy]

You have to remember Batman needs to look scary in order for him to get the job done. He can't be too sleek.

[cryptic name]

You have to remember Batman needs to look scary in order for him to get the job done. He can't be too sleek.

that doesn't make sense

[Comic Book Boy]

that doesn't make sense
Try harder.

[Clerk]

that doesn't make sense

What suit would scare criminals more: the Batman 89 suit or the Returns suit? Returns, though sleek, wasn't exactly as organic and threatening as the Batman 89 one.

I dunno if that example makes sense, but I think thats what the one dude was trying to get across.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Awesome? Is that why he wears the gray?

Because Batman has always been portrayed, atleast theoritcally, as someone who would just do what's best for the mission. It's a comic book, and the it's cool, but the only good reason he wears it is b/c it's easier for artists to draw. A Batman in armor would probably take longer for artists to draw. God knows how much more delayed Jim Lee's books would be for it.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What suit would scare criminals more: the Batman 89 suit or the Returns suit? Returns, though sleek, wasn't exactly as organic and threatening as the Batman 89 one.

I dunno if that example makes sense, but I think thats what the one dude was trying to get across.

I don't think it matters. They're both black, and in the dead of the night, both serve the same purpose: to look like a part of the night.

Which is why all black works for me. I think it works better for the character.

[Crooklyn]

I don't think it matters. They're both black, and in the dead of the night, both serve the same purpose: to look like a part of the night.
Exactly. Some of ya'll are taking these things too seriously. :huh:

[Saint]

Awesome? Is that why he wears the gray?
Pretty much, yeah.

[Saint]

I don't think it matters. They're both black, and in the dead of the night, both serve the same purpose: to look like a part of the night.

Which is why all black works for me. I think it works better for the character.
As BatScot would be happy to tell you--as he has been telling people for years--a study by the US military (if I recall correctly) showed that grey is as effective as black when used for night camo.

[Darkest Knight]

Either way, Batman looks completely bad a$$ in all black.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I'd buy that completely, Saint, if Batman wore ALL gray. But, the Black over gray creates a look that makes the body stand out....and an easier target. Gray-on-Gray would make sense as would Black-on-Black.

[Saint]

I'd buy that completely, Saint, if Batman wore ALL gray. But, the Black over gray creates a look that makes the body stand out....and an easier target. Gray-on-Gray would make sense as would Black-on-Black.
Even supposing that were true, we are in the fortunate position of discussing a fictional world where people dress up as bats, and can be black and grey.

[afan]

This has been posted before, but thought it was worthy of viewing again. I could see this working very easily in "Nolan's" world while being more faithful to the source.

[regwec]

Yeah it is but won't translate well into Nolan's concept.

I'm sure Mr Nolan would get ever so frustrated if he was witness to the legions of arm-chair directors who constantly tell the world what his concept and philosophy are, and why he would be unable to film certain ideas effectively.

[regwec]

http://www.military-kit.co.uk/images/blue_urban_camo_jacket.jpg http://www.military-kit.co.uk/images/black_white_urban_camo_jacket.jpg

Grey-and-black or blue-and-grey are obviously entirely inappropriate for combat in an urban arena.

[Mr. Thing]

This has been posted before, but thought it was worthy of viewing again. I could see this working very easily in "Nolan's" world while being more faithful to the source.

I love this design! :up:

[Pythenis]

I hope they do change the look out of necessity and show the old suit has taken a beating.......it's just time for an upgrade thats all...



(A big box is placed on Bruce Waynes desk, Bruce looks up to see Lucious Fox grinning at him)

Bruce- What's this?
Lucious- Consider it my retirement gift..
Bruce- Didn't you get the Wayne Enterprises coffee mug?
Lucious- Oh, I got that.....I particullary like the car that came with it.
Bruce- Just a little thank you....
Lucious- Yea, I liked my last check too...
Bruce- That was the big thank you.
Lucious- Well here is my big thank you to you.
Bruce- For what?
Lucious- For doing what you do.....and giving this city, my city...hope.

(Opens the gift to see a new Bat suit)

Bruce- Thanks lucious...

[hey yo its sean]

http://www.military-kit.co.uk/images/blue_urban_camo_jacket.jpg http://www.military-kit.co.uk/images/black_white_urban_camo_jacket.jpg

Grey-and-black or blue-and-grey are obviously entirely inappropriate for combat in an urban arena.

Oh yeah. When people wear things like this, they're almost invisible to the human eye.

[regwec]

When people wear black, they actually disappear. It completely sunk Johnny Cash's career, after the 60's.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Even supposing that were true, we are in the fortunate position of discussing a fictional world where people dress up as bats, and can be black and grey.

Well, by that thinking, you could justify Batman wearing pink and yellow without wanting to debate it.

One color scheme would make sense, b/c nothing would stand out. You say that the gray can be about as effective (which is kinda fishy to me anyways) but I think it could be if he wore all gray. Don't soliders wear camo all in one scheme?

That is, I have never seen a solider wear gray camo pants, with blue camo shirts.

But...hey....maybe that makes too much sense.

This has been posted before, but thought it was worthy of viewing again. I could see this working very easily in "Nolan's" world while being more faithful to the source.


What I like about that costume is that the gray is very very dark. Almost not gray, actually. It's pretty effective with the black cape and cowl.

Oh yeah. When people wear things like this, they're almost invisible to the human eye.


The blue guy stands out. But....I don't see the other guy. Where'd he go? Where'd he go? He could be anywhere!!

[ChrisBaleBatman]

When people wear black, they actually disappear. It completely sunk Johnny Cash's career, after the 60's.


Sacrasim?

Really, SHH.....we need a goddamn saracasm icon.....

[Crooklyn]

Well, by that thinking, you could justify Batman wearing pink and yellow without wanting to debate it.

One color scheme would make sense, b/c nothing would stand out. You say that the gray can be about as effective (which is kinda fishy to me anyways) but I think it could be if he wore all gray. Don't soliders wear camo all in one scheme?

That is, I have never seen a solider wear gray camo pants, with blue camo shirts.

But...hey....maybe that makes too much sense.
http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos8/nepalese-camo.jpg
http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos14/austrian-camo-shirt-b.jpg

Looks like a whole bunch of different colors to me...

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah, but I meant one scheme. That seems to be a green scheme, while the one the dummy's wearing looks like a brown scheme.

I was under the assumption that the spot colors are to create a tree-like leaves illusion.

[Crooklyn]

There's a whole bunch of bright green and dark turquoise on that dummy though. And I know it's for a 'leaf' effect, but I was just trying to make the point that when it comes to camouflage, it almost always uses more than one color.

As for Bats, I'd say a jet black/charcoal gray combo works just fine.

[regwec]

Deep blue makes a great deal of sense when he is going to spend a lot of time framed against a twilight sky. I seem to remember a panel drawn by Tim Sale where a blue-cloaked Batman swoops down from the inky heavens; his shape made clear only by his outline. Looked great.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

But, considering that they're in organic settings....like jungles and deserts...it makes sense.

While, being in an industrial setting, at night.....I dunno......maybe it's just crazy to say Batman would want to use one color overall......for the cape and the body. Notice how the dummy is wearing the same color for the shirt and the pants? That's kinda what I mean.

[Saint]

Well, by that thinking, you could justify Batman wearing pink and yellow without wanting to debate it.

Not really. Maybe this is news to you, but there is realm of reasonability in fiction. Pink camo is outside that realm, but black and grey is not. This realm also includes exploding gas tanks on cars (almost never happens in reality), sound traveling in space, people in batsuits, and chemicals that bleach your skin white, but turn your hair green.

Also of note is that you drone on about camo, but you don't actually want Batman to wear it. All black isn't camo. Camo has a pattern of shades (hint: black would have shades of grey). If you just think black looks better, that's cool, but don't waste my time with this visibility stuff, because it's a movie and aesthetics are as important as functionality. Or perhaps you were under the impression that The Dark Knight is a documentary?

One color scheme would make sense, b/c nothing would stand out. You say that the gray can be about as effective (which is kinda fishy to me anyways) but I think it could be if he wore all gray. Don't soliders wear camo all in one scheme?
Grey and black are the same scheme. It's called the greyscale. Perhaps you automatically assumed--as many on the Hype seem to do--that "grey" actually means "light grey."

That is, I have never seen a solider wear gray camo pants, with blue camo shirts.
How fortunate, then, that what I said is not at all similar to that situation.

[abiwankenobi]

I'm sure Mr Nolan would get ever so frustrated if he was witness to the legions of arm-chair directors who constantly tell the world what his concept and philosophy are, and why he would be unable to film certain ideas effectively.
I am only speculating from what I have heard and read about this movie. I don't know what his philosophy or concept is but I am pretty sure it doesn't involve Batman wearing gray armor or tights!
Can we please stop with terms like "arm chair directors" and keep to the topic on hand?

[The Batman]

Can we please stop with terms like "arm chair directors" and keep to the topic on hand?


why....too complex for you?

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Not really. Maybe this is news to you, but there is realm of reasonability in fiction. Pink camo is outside that realm, but black and grey is not. This realm also includes exploding gas tanks on cars (almost never happens in reality), sound traveling in space, people in batsuits, and chemicals that bleach your skin white, but turn your hair green.



And I accept it. But, Black is best, I think. I'm not going to simply say "oh ****, it works better your way just b/c the rules are obviously thrown out the window".


Also of note is that you drone on about camo, but you don't actually want Batman to wear it. All black isn't camo. Camo has a pattern of shades (hint: black would have shades of grey). If you just think black looks better, that's cool, but don't waste my time with this visibility stuff, because it's a movie and aesthetics are as important as functionality. Or perhaps you were under the impression that The Dark Knight is a documentary?



Yes. Yes I did. Obviously, Batman Begins was a documentary. I've been saying that for months, with clowns talking me off that ledge....like asses they are.

I think Black works best, and makes sense for a guy who's probably main concern is to not be seen clearly. That's all.

I'll drone on something else, just to shake it up for ya.


Grey and black are the same scheme. It's called the greyscale. Perhaps you automatically assumed--as many on the Hype seem to do--that "grey" actually means "light grey."



One color for both would be better though. Atleast, I'm thinking in practical terms. You can go with dark gray.....but why not just take it one step further and go all black? Not that big a deal, I think.


How fortunate, then, that what I said is not at all similar to that situation


Touche.

[Saint]

And I accept it. But, Black is best, I think. I'm not going to simply say "oh ****, it works better your way just b/c the rules are obviously thrown out the window".
What rules? I fail to see how your speculations on effective camo constitute rules.
Yes. Yes I did.
As I suspected.
I think Black works best, and makes sense for a guy who's probably main concern is to not be seen clearly. That's all.
You think wrong. We had this conversation: one colour is not camo. Camo is a pattern of shades. Since you ignore this (and the fact that grey is effective as black, according to the US Military), I can only conclude you don't really care about whether or not he can be seen, and you just pretend to care because you'd rather not admit you have no reason to support the use of black besides your own preference. I, on the other hand, have no problem admitting the only reason I want grey is because I like it. Oh, and because that's what Batman wears.
One color for both would be better though. Atleast, I'm thinking in practical terms. You can go with dark gray.....but why not just take it one step further and go all black? Not that big a deal, I think.
Because I don't like all black, and Batman does not wear all black.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What rules? I fail to see how your speculations on effective camo constitute rules.


Rules of logic.

Not rules of camo or anything.


As I suspected.



Yup. That part where the Tumbler jumps from rooftop to rooftop.......SUPER realism there.......


You think wrong. We had this conversation: one colour is not camo. Camo is a pattern of shades. Since you ignore this (and the fact that grey is effective as black, according to the US Military), I can only conclude you don't really care about whether or not he can be seen, and you just pretend to care because you'd rather not admit you have no reason to support the use of black besides your own preference. I, on the other hand, have no problem admitting the only reason I want grey is because I like it. Oh, and because that's what Batman wears.



I think wrong?

Well thank you for not being a dick about it, then.

I never said one color is camo. I didn't ignore it b/c I didn't say it.

And I still don't buy it, that grey is as effective as black. You said that BatScot heard they were still studying it....remember

Pretend the care? What's your malfunction, man?

Batman is often charactertized as man who's all about the mission. Doing what's most efficient, to get the job done. To be scary. I honestly....(maybe I can take a lie detector test for ya, huh??) think that wearing all black (or, all gray, if what you said about the military study group is true) would be most efficient and better suit how he's characterized and his mindset.

I think your the one who just wants to see what he wants to see, and pretending to care.....or whatever. You kinda jabbered a bit there.

Because I don't like all black, and Batman does not wear all black.

Well.....he has for the last decade on film. And, the comics tried all black as well.

It's nostagalic, which is what I said from the very beginning. Which....surprisingly, you responded with "awesome"......

[Saint]

Rules of logic.

Not rules of camo or anything.

Haha, and what logic is that? You think all-black is more effective camo, when it's not, so therefore Batman should wear black? We call that a false premise.

Yup. That part where the Tumbler jumps from rooftop to rooftop.......SUPER realism there.......
Exactly my point. You, like many, are taking this realism thing too far.

I think wrong?

Well thank you for not being a dick about it, then.
You're welcome.

I never said one color is camo. I didn't ignore it b/c I didn't say it.
Sure you did. That's all you've been saying; that Batman would be better hidden if he wore all black. That's not true--if it were, camo would be all black, because it's designed for hiding.

And I still don't buy it, that grey is as effective as black. You said that BatScot heard they were still studying it....remember
I never said they were "still" studying it. I said that their study showed grey was as effective, period. This "still studying it" business is something you must have dreamed.

Batman is often charactertized as man who's all about the mission. Doing what's most efficient, to get the job done. To be scary. I honestly....(maybe I can take a lie detector test for ya, huh??)
That might help your case.

think that wearing all black (or, all gray, if what you said about the military study group is true) would be most efficient and better suit how he's characterized and his mindset.
And I think you're wrong. Obviously we are not going to come to any mutual terms, so there's no point in talking about it any further.

I think your the one who just wants to see what he wants to see
You think? I said outright that was the case.

Well.....he has for the last decade on film.
How fortunate, then, that Christopher Nolan is adapting the comics--not the previous films, eh?

And, the comics tried all black as well.
Not accurate. People like to say that, but it never really happened. There was brief stint in the nineties (following his return to the mantle) where he did, indeed, wear a darker costume, but it was not really all black. If anything, it was blue and black, and most of the time was coloured as blue and dark grey. I'm sure there were occasions where it was coloured all-black (though none of these exist in my collection), but even if that's the case, it's still irrelevant (unless you want to argue that it's okay for Batman to wear purple gloves, or own a rainbow collection of batsuits, since he did those things, too).

It's nostagalic, which is what I said from the very beginning. Which....surprisingly, you responded with "awesome"......
Because that's what it is. It has nothing to do with nostalgia (if I wanted nostalgia, I would be rooting for all-black, as Tim Burton's Batman was my introduction to the character), and everything to do with awesomeness.

[The Watchman]

I enjoy Saint, for saving me my breath of saying the same things I feel...in my heart. :up:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Haha, and what logic is that? You think all-black is more effective camo, when it's not, so therefore Batman should wear black? We call that a false premise.



What do you mean? Him wearing one color for the entire costume makes sense to me instead of him wearing a two piece color.

I said all gray could work too. I didn't say it has to be black. I PREFER black, but I haven't thrown that in your face the way you claim.


Exactly my point. You, like many, are taking this realism thing too far.



http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:mpZV7lBwSmnWYM:http://www.smartpunk.com/product_images/11324.gif



You're welcome.


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:jAHhPaDUOHb2nM:http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/3825~National-Sarcasm-Society-Posters.jpg


Sure you did. That's all you've been saying; that Batman would be better hidden if he wore all black. That's not true--if it were, camo would be all black, because it's designed for hiding.




Not true.

I've said one color would be most effective. I prefer black, but gray would work too. You've just got your eyes set on attacking the black costume with me.


I never said they were "still" studying it. I said that their study showed grey was as effective, period. This "still studying it" business is something you must have dreamed.



Dreamed?

Uh.....okay.......:huh:

Btw, do you have a link or does Batscot have a link? I do think it sounds like something interesting to read.


That might help your case.



But, not yours, apparently.


And I think you're wrong. Obviously we are not going to come to any mutual terms, so there's no point in talking about it any further.



Are you calling a truce.....?


You think? I said outright that was the case.



Then why are you coming at me that "your pretending to care about if Bats can or can't be seen"?

I honestly think he'd work best in black...or gray. One color for me would work for what Batman is, supposedly, trying to acheive.

But, I guess I just like to "pretend" about "caring" here on the "boards" with other "people".....hmmm...too many quotation marks, I think...


How fortunate, then, that Christopher Nolan is adapting the comics--not the previous films, eh?



But, the films do count for something. They count, mainly, b/c that's what most people have seen.....and many have been introduced through. The comics count, obviously, but that's no reason to just dicount the films as whole.


Not accurate. People like to say that, but it never really happened. There was brief stint in the nineties (following his return to the mantle) where he did, indeed, wear a darker costume, but it was not really all black. If anything, it was blue and black, and most of the time was coloured as blue and dark grey. I'm sure there were occasions where it was coloured all-black (though none of these exist in my collection), but even if that's the case, it's still irrelevant (unless you want to argue that it's okay for Batman to wear purple gloves, or own a rainbow collection of batsuits, since he did those things, too).



He wore black.

I'd argue that the rainbow costumes and purple gloves don't count b/c they're not in continuity anymore since the Crisis.

Because that's what it is. It has nothing to do with nostalgia (if I wanted nostalgia, I would be rooting for all-black, as Tim Burton's Batman was my introduction to the character), and everything to do with awesomeness.

Not nostalgic to you.

Nostalgic to the comics. Your not the one deciding if the gray costume stays. The reason Batman still wears tights, and gray tights at that, is b/c he's worn it for a long time. Most of 70 years. When you keep it because of it's history, and not for practical reasons, that's nostalgic.

Who's said nostaglia was a bad thing too???? But, there's no practical reason for the cotume he wears. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, don't come at me and say I'm full of it b/c you think you know what your talking about.

And.....I dunno....I think, and always though, that all black was twice as awesome just b/c it's more of a badass color. Awesomness right there.

Yeah, the gray and the black make for a great color scheme on paper to play with for designs in a panel. I do not deny that. But, I'm pointing out things that do make sense here.

Atleast, I hope I am.

[Saint]

What do you mean? Him wearing one color for the entire costume makes sense to me instead of him wearing a two piece color.
...Oh dear. I can only advise you to review our conversation thus far.

I said all gray could work too. I didn't say it has to be black. I PREFER black, but I haven't thrown that in your face the way you claim.
Don't was my time with falsehoods.



http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:mpZV7lBwSmnWYM:http://www.smartpunk.com/product_images/11324.gif




http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:jAHhPaDUOHb2nM:http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/3825~National-Sarcasm-Society-Posters.jpg
I'm aware (and I don't even need "clever" images to point that out).




Not true.
Yikes, more falsehoods.



Dreamed?

Uh.....okay.......:huh:
Do I need to use one of your little sarcasm images?

Btw, do you have a link or does Batscot have a link? I do think it sounds like something interesting to read.
You'd have to ask him.

But, not yours, apparently.
Yeah, "random irrelevant one-liner," indeed.

Are you calling a truce.....?
No. If you continue to respond, I will continue to refute your points. If you don't, I will not. That is what I'm telling you.

Then why are you coming at me that "your pretending to care about if Bats can or can't be seen"?
Because you are. My point was that while you blather on about faulty reasons, some of us can just admit we like option X without feeling the need to fluff up our argument with bogus reasoning.

I honestly think he'd work best in black...or gray. One color for me would work for what Batman is, supposedly, trying to acheive.
We've been over this: you're wrong. One shade does not function as camo, and thus is NOT best for what he's "trying to achieve."

This would be a lot easier if you just said "I think all black looks better, and that's the only reason I want it." That I could respect. That was the entire point of my original "it's because it's awesome" post.

But, I guess I just like to "pretend" about "caring" here on the "boards" with other "people"
Obviously.

But, the films do count for something.
No, they do not. In fact, this entire series is based upon the premise that they do not count.

They count, mainly, b/c that's what most people have seen
Oh, okay--so I suppose nipples on the batsuit would be okay because most people have seen that, too? It doesn't matter what most people have seen: most people don't know crap about Batman.

.....and many have been introduced through. The comics count, obviously, but that's no reason to just dicount the films as whole.
It sure is: the comics are being adapted, not the films. That's pretty much the end of it, as far as I'm concerned, unless somebody in the production says they're adapting the other films, too.

He wore black.
I would respond to this, but it would merely involve me copying and pasting me previous response. Save me the time and just re-read it.

Not nostalgic to you.
Well, duh. When did I ever give you the impression that my opinion was not the only one that matters?

Nostalgic to the comics. Your not the one deciding if the gray costume stays.
I never said I was. I was explaining my reasons for being happy that it stays.

The reason Batman still wears tights, and gray tights at that, is b/c he's worn it for a long time. Most of 70 years. When you keep it because of it's history, and not for practical reasons, that's nostalgic.
Actually, no. The reason it stays is because it's still accepted as good design. When that changes, he won't wear the classic suit anymore. Superhero costuming goes through movements, just like any other kind of art.

Who's said nostaglia was a bad thing too???? But, there's no practical reason for the cotume he wears. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, don't come at me and say I'm full of it b/c you think you know what your talking about.
I never said there was a practical reason. Have fun arguing against points I never made, though.

[Wams]

http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5313

Hooray for costume change!!!:woot:

:batman:
:supes:

[regwec]

Yeah, but that story doesn't really mean anything. I mean, it could mean that Bale will be wearing a version of Batman's Bronze Age threads, or that he will need his existing suit adjusted because he has lost a few pounds.

[iwalktheline92]

I think the new suit should be the gray and black version.:batty:

[Agentsands77]

I think all-black looks a thousand times cooler and scarier than gray/black, and that's why the all-black suit should be used (besides, I have no doubt that it will be sticking around). I've never been a fan of the gray/black (especially with the black underwear, which has always looked silly).

[regwec]

Thanks, that really carried this debate forward.

[iwalktheline92]

No Golden Oval - it is......pointless. The black on black bat is 100% better IMO.
The whole point of the yellow oval is to draw attention to his chest and away from his head. His chest is the most padded

[iwalktheline92]

I think all-black looks a thousand times cooler and scarier than gray/black, and that's why the all-black suit should be used (besides, I have no doubt that it will be sticking around). I've never been a fan of the gray/black (especially with the black underwear, which has always looked silly).

It doesn't have to be like the spandex one it could be like the rubber ones just those colors.

[Octoberist]

the grey/black looks great in comics. It can work in movies, but then you got the underwear thing to explain. So that's why the black, to me, looks more believeable..I guess.

[COMPO]

Yup. That part where the Tumbler jumps from rooftop to rooftop.......SUPER realism there.......

People are taking this realism too far. What Nolan was doing was giving explanations to these unbelievable things to make them seem believable.

[iwalktheline92]

I hope they get rid of the tumbler it was kinda stupid.

[Brian Braddock]

I'm intrigued - please elaborate.................

[Agentsands77]

It doesn't have to be like the spandex one it could be like the rubber ones just those colors.
I know, and I don't like it even then. I don't think it looks all that great, and I think a solid color is much better for the "animal" look that keeps getting brought up.

[iwalktheline92]

It wasn't really a car it was more like a tank.

[Noir]

It wasn't really a car it was more like a tank.
Read TDKR.

[Brian Braddock]

It wasn't really a car it was more like a tank.


He's have a tough time fitting his poiny ears into a car.

More headroom in a tank.

;)

[Noir]

It wasn't really a car it was more like a tank.
The Batmobile has never had a set look, it changes from Artist to artist, He sometimes it just looks retarded.

[iwalktheline92]

The best batmobile was the one in the Keaton films.

[iwalktheline92]

The best batmobile was the one in the Keaton films.

[Brian Braddock]

http://www.batmobilehistory.com/index.html

[regwec]

Did this thread's IQ drop?

[The Watchman]

considerably

[Keyser Sushi]

The new kid has that effect on threads. :dry:

[Noir]

..I think he is the only one in the Universe that has a problem with the Batmobile/Tumbler..

[iwalktheline92]

im here you can talk to me you know

[Keyser Sushi]

..I think he is the only one in the Universe that has a problem with the Batmobile/Tumbler..

I wish that were true.

But according to this poll (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265235), there are at least 32 others... :(

[Noir]

I wish that were true.

But according to this poll (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265235), there are at least 32 others... :(
Well 111 people like it, and thats alot of Batman Fanboys who love it.

[Keyser Sushi]

Well 111 people like it, and thats alot of Batman Fanboys who love it.

Good point. :up:

[IamtheBatman]

I would like to see Nolan use the batmobile from Batman 89' and just update it so it looks more 07-08'.

[iwalktheline92]

Dont get me wrong i dont hate it. its just not my favorite.

[iwalktheline92]

I wouls like to see Nolan use the batmobile from Batman 89' and just update it so it looks more 07-08'.


Im all for that

[Keyser Sushi]

I would like to see Nolan use the batmobile from Batman 89' and just update it so it looks more 07-08'.

1.) Why would you want Nolan to use something that's already been used? Why would you want something that repetitive, especially when the current series is supposed to be a separate entity from the older one?

2.) The Tumbler is a far better vehicle for Batman to be driving. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Batmobile from BATMAN but that's over and done. The Tumbler has all the best aspects of the 89 Batmobile - armor, rocket engine, keyless remote entry - with the added benefits of better maneuverability, rampless jumps, stealth mode, and a more intimidating appearance.

I really don't see the problem...

[iwalktheline92]

im not saying use the exact one but maybe make some minor modifications to the tumbler like make it a little less bulky.

[Mr. Thing]

I really don't see the problem...

Maybe some people prefer a more sleek and "traditional" batmobile than the tumbler? It's not an outlandish theory, really.

But I do wish them to keep the tumbler, as I love it. But I can understand why some people do not.

[Keyser Sushi]

im not saying use the exact one but maybe make some minor modifications to the tumbler like make it a little less bulky.

What's wrong with bulky? Honestly, it's not really that big. The wide wheelbase gives it stability, but it's actually smaller than the Keatonmobile.

[iwalktheline92]

do you know how long the tumbler is by any chance?

[Noir]

im not saying use the exact one but maybe make some minor modifications to the tumbler like make it a little less bulky.
80% of the Batmobiles are bulky or look like a giant penis.

[Keyser Sushi]

Maybe some people prefer a more sleek and "traditional" batmobile than the tumbler? It's not an outlandish theory, really.

But I do wish them to keep the tumbler, as I love it. But I can understand why some people do not.

Aw, I just like making people defend their positions.

Besides, what exactly constitutes a "traditional" batmobile? Every artist draws it different. Some of them are little more than sports cars with a custom paint job and maybe some fins. Norm Breyfogle drew that crazy low-slung Batmobile that the Tumbler reminds me vaguely of. The only way the Keatonmobile was really any more "traditional" than the Tumbler was that it had fins and pontoon fenders. Which not all comic Batmobiles have, for that matter.

[iwalktheline92]

i know the keaton one was 10ft long

[iwalktheline92]

80% of the Batmobiles are bulky or look like a giant penis.


LOL

[Mr. Thing]

Aw, I just like making people defend their positions.

Besides, what exactly constitutes a "traditional" batmobile? Every artist draws it different. Some of them are little more than sports cars with a custom paint job and maybe some fins. Norm Breyfogle drew that crazy low-slung Batmobile that the Tumbler reminds me vaguely of. The only way the Keatonmobile was really any more "traditional" than the Tumbler was that it had fins and pontoon fenders. Which not all comic Batmobiles have, for that matter.

Exactly the reason I put traditional in inverted commas. They are all different, but in general, when I think of comic batmobiles I think of sleek beasts with bat-fins. I don't really think of a monster like the tumbler.

[Crooklyn]

Exactly the reason I put traditional in inverted commas. They are all different, but in general, when I think of comic batmobiles I think of sleek beasts with bat-fins. I don't really think of a monster like the tumbler.
Yup. :up:

I don't really mind the Tumbler too much, but let's face it...the car is ugly. The car has had a rep over the years to being the top-of-the-line in automotive design. I'd like to see that continue. :o

I sure as hell would love to see a redesign of the outer shell, and keep some aspects of the Tumbler to maintain some continuity. The engine's gotta stay though, it's awesome.

[Noir]

80% of the Batmobiles are bulky or look like a giant penis.
http://www.batmobilehistory.com/1988_kj-batmobile.gif

[iwalktheline92]

http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/batmobile.jpg

That was the worst batmoblie ever

[Keyser Sushi]

i know the keaton one was 10ft long

You're wrong. The Keaton car was 260 inches long, which breaks down to about 21 feet, and it was slightly less than 8 feet wide.

The Tumbler is 15 feet long, and about nine and a half feet wide.

All my facts came from here:

http://www.chickslovethecar.com/default.asp

[Crooklyn]

Heh, that site's name describes exactly why the Batmobile is so famous. :D

[Keyser Sushi]

Yup. :up:

I don't really mind the Tumbler too much, but let's face it...the car is ugly.

No, it's not. Of course, I like Hummers and monster trucks, so take that as you will.

The car has had a rep over the years to being the top-of-the-line in automotive design. I'd like to see that continue. :o

Actually it still is. If you watch the special features on the DVD, it's a pretty incredible design in every respect. Especially considering how it was actually able to do the things it does in the movie.

I sure as hell would love to see a redesign of the outer shell, and keep some aspects of the Tumbler to maintain some continuity. The engine's gotta stay though, it's awesome.

Ohhh, the engine. I see. :o

[Noir]

http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/batmobile.jpg

That was the worst batmoblie ever

Thats another penis inspired Batmobile.

[Keyser Sushi]

Heh, that site's name describes exactly why the Batmobile is so famous. :D

A stupid line of dialogue from Batman Forever?

[Keyser Sushi]

http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/batmobile.jpg

That was the worst batmoblie ever

It does bear a passing resemblance to the 1940's Batmobile, anyway.

IMO the worst one is the Clooneymobile. Hands down.

[Noir]

It does bear a passing resemblance to the 1940's Batmobile, anyway.

IMO the worst one is the Clooneymobile. Hands down.
Wasn't that thing like 50 FT long?

[Crooklyn]

No, it's not. Of course, I like Hummers and monster trucks, so take that as you will.
'Nuff said. :ninja:

Actually it still is. If you watch the special features on the DVD, it's a pretty incredible design in every respect. Especially considering how it was actually able to do the things it does in the movie.

It's a nicely designed vehicle, but not necessarily a nicely designed batmobile.

I mean I remember when Para made a thread way back when of "the NEW batmobile", everyone went in, and you could literally feel it, it was just a "what the..." type of thing. 'Course, as days passed, we explained the abnormality of it as simply a car that's still in early production. Lolz.

Thats another penis inspired Batmobile.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Confused/006.gif
*connects the dots*

So that's why chicks dig the car. :csad:

[Enriquespy]

Is This gonna be a cars thread?

[iwalktheline92]

Wasn't that thing like 50 FT long?

it was 33ft long.

[iwalktheline92]

the stupid thing about the kilmermobile was they had it drive up a wall

[iwalktheline92]

the stupid thing about the kilmermobile was they had it drive up a wall

[iwalktheline92]

the stupid thing about the kilmermobile was they had it drive up a wall

[iwalktheline92]

the stupid thing about the kilmermobile was they had it drive up a wall

[iwalktheline92]

the stupid thing about the kilmermobile was they had it drive up a wall

[iwalktheline92]

sorry my computer wasnt working and i hit the post button to many times.

[Noir]

....Why are you spaming?

[iwalktheline92]

i wasnt i just hit the post button too many times. i swear.

[iwalktheline92]

hey noir how do i set an avatar

[Noir]

hey noir how do i set an avatar
You don't have enough posts yet.

[iwalktheline92]

do you know how many i do need?

[iwalktheline92]

ur bday is really 12.21

[Noir]

yeah.

FYI, having a Convo like this is considered spaming, if you have any questions PM me, okay?

[iwalktheline92]

ok thanx for the info

[Noir]

No problem.

[regwec]

The tumbler, like the current Batsuit, is a great piece of logical, practical invention. Also like the Batsuit, it could be perfected by a couple of simple aesthetic changes- more bodywork would go a long way.

[BatScot]

The tumbler, like the current Batsuit, is a great piece of logical, practical invention. Also like the Batsuit, it could be perfected by a couple of simple aesthetic changes- more bodywork would go a long way.I like the Tumbler. I even like it as it is, but practical?

In the context of the film the Tumbler was designed for one purpose: to lay down a bailey bridge. But the way the vehicle is portrayed in the latter part of the film raises some “logical” and “practical” problems: 1). a vehicle designed for a rampless jump would need to be light, not the concrete busting monstrosity we see in Begins, and 2). hauling metal cables and running a bailey bridge is going to be clanky loud no matter how stealthy you try to make... well, suffice to say, you wouldn’t even bother trying to make the vehicle stealthy because it would be pointless to do so.

Still, I like the Tumber. And I don’t want to see it changed... I just don’t buy the backstory.

[regwec]

I agree that some of Lucius' explanations for things are a bit erratic. There is not point in a car in an urban environment being stealthy anyway- eveyone can see and hear it. I can just about accept the tumbler's jumps, if we imagine its engine is an absolute beast. In any case, we can now leave the awkward exposition of the first film behind us.

[iwalktheline92]

this site tells alot about the tumbler. http://www.batmobilehistory.com/2005-batmobile.php

[regwec]

Yes, someone posted it a couple of pages ago.

[iwalktheline92]

oh sorry

[ChrisBaleBatman]

People are taking this realism too far. What Nolan was doing was giving explanations to these unbelievable things to make them seem believable.

Go look at my previous posts....then get back to me. Seriously. Go. Now.

I like the Tumbler. I even like it as it is, but practical?

In the context of the film the Tumbler was designed for one purpose: to lay down a bailey bridge. But the way the vehicle is portrayed in the latter part of the film raises some “logical” and “practical” problems: 1). a vehicle designed for a rampless jump would need to be light, not the concrete busting monstrosity we see in Begins, and 2). hauling metal cables and running a bailey bridge is going to be clanky loud no matter how stealthy you try to make... well, suffice to say, you wouldn’t even bother trying to make the vehicle stealthy because it would be pointless to do so.

Still, I like the Tumber. And I don’t want to see it changed... I just don’t buy the backstory.


Well, this kinda goes back to the whole realsim thing.

It's not real. We're just given an illusion of realsim, so it makes sense that some stuff is a little less.....real, so to add to the story.

I mean, I'm into rampless jumps as the next guy......but there's something very unreal about a car bouncing from rooftop to rooftop. That was probably more shaky than the backstory for me.

I think when people say the Tumbler is practical.....they mean it in a broder sense. The Tumbler is a heavy duty vehicle, that can take a ton of abuse. So, Batman is in a car that provides enough protection to drive around a city as crazy as Gotham.

I agree that some of Lucius' explanations for things are a bit erratic. There is not point in a car in an urban environment being stealthy anyway- eveyone can see and hear it. I can just about accept the tumbler's jumps, if we imagine its engine is an absolute beast. In any case, we can now leave the awkward exposition of the first film behind us.


Well, I was actually under the impression that the stealth mode thing was real though. I mean, that it can be done. Isn't it?

[Crooklyn]

Well, I was actually under the impression that the stealth mode thing was real though. I mean, that it can be done. Isn't it?
I think he was criticizing the actual use of it's feature in a city environment, not whether it could be done.

[BatScot]

^^ OK, then I don't buy the illusion then. Same diff.

[iwalktheline92]

they actually made the tumbler its real. when they were filming in Chicago people thought it was a alien space craft

[BatScot]

I think he was criticizing the actual use of it's feature in a city environment, not whether it could be done.I nice to see someone has the capacity to read a critical comment in the context it was made ;)

[dark_b]

they actually made the tumbler its real. when they were filming in Chicago people thought it was a alien space craftoly a drunk guy

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, I'll buy you a cookie then.

Chocolate flavor, correct?

[lujho]

I like the Tumbler. I even like it as it is, but practical?

In the context of the film the Tumbler was designed for one purpose: to lay down a bailey bridge. But the way the vehicle is portrayed in the latter part of the film raises some “logical” and “practical” problems: 1). a vehicle designed for a rampless jump would need to be light, not the concrete busting monstrosity we see in Begins, and 2). hauling metal cables and running a bailey bridge is going to be clanky loud no matter how stealthy you try to make... well, suffice to say, you wouldn’t even bother trying to make the vehicle stealthy because it would be pointless to do so.

Still, I like the Tumber. And I don’t want to see it changed... I just don’t buy the backstory.

And you've got to agree, the second driving position is pretty ridiculous too. It's just something for the sake of having a "cool" visual feature that is really quite meaningless. If he can drive and shoot in that prone position then they could have built the car in such a way that he could do the same in a single, sitting position. That's related to the axle-less front wheels - it's just for the sake of looking different and sci-fi, and to enable vision from the (silly) prone driving position.

I like the Tumbler too, but it it's own way it's as silly and outlandish as all the previous cars, moreso in some ways. The best thing about it is that it doesn't look like it was specifically built for Batman.

A custom/concept sportscar would have been far more down-to-earth, practical (remember, it can be just as armoured as any other vehicle), and "realistic" than either the Tumbler or the Burton/Schumacher bat-rods.

[Crooklyn]

And you've got to agree, the second driving position is pretty ridiculous too. It's just something for the sake of having a "cool" visual feature that is really quite meaningless. If he can drive and shoot in that prone position then they could have built the car in such a way that he could do the same in a single, sitting position. That's related to the axle-less front wheels - it's just for the sake of looking different and sci-fi, and to enable vision from the (silly) prone driving position.
Lol, that had to be the most disappointing thing from the car for me. When I first heard the idea of him switching positions inside the car, I immediately thought of some crazy-cool gyroscopic deal to go with some crazy car-chase that flips the car or something....but alas, it was some pointless addition. :dry:

[BatScot]

Well, I'll buy you a cookie then.

Chocolate flavor, correct?Keep it... I can afford my own.

[Mr. Thing]

Shouldn't all this talk be in a thread about the car?

I was under the impression this thread was about Batman's threads.

[lujho]

Yeah, bit of thread drift going on. So yeah, I was thinking, Batman's suit should be sky blue and pale grey, like in the comics, preferably of the thinnest material available :)

[BatScot]

And you've got to agree, the second driving position is pretty ridiculous too...When I read this quote:

"The cabin seats a driver and one passenger, with a unique arrangement for the driver: for normal driving situations, the driver simply sits in the left seat. In "attack" mode, the driver's seat moves to the center of the car, and the driver is repositioned to lay face-down with his head in the center section between the front wheels. This serves two main purposes: first, it provides more substantial protection with the driver shielded by multiple layers of armor plating. Second, the prone position reduces the risk of injury a driver faces when making extreme driving maneuvers (stunt drivers are at risk of spine compression when doing jumps - laying down virtually eliminates this risk)."

... my initial reaction was to disagree with your assessment of the meaninglessness of the prone position, then it occurred to me: what about the passenger? The prone position of the driver does nothing to eliminate the risk of spine compression to the passenger, and since the Tumbler is designed for dual occupancy then this theory of injury prevention fails to hold up. So in the end I do agree.

And that's all I gots to say about that ;)

[iwalktheline92]

i never understood the blue and gray suit. light blue is hardly stealth like

[Paste Pot Pete]

the thinnest material available :)

All you'd need is some cold weather and bam! ...nipples on the Batsuit.

[not_a_victim]

I like the Tumbler. I even like it as it is, but practical?

In the context of the film the Tumbler was designed for one purpose: to lay down a bailey bridge. But the way the vehicle is portrayed in the latter part of the film raises some “logical” and “practical” problems: 1). a vehicle designed for a rampless jump would need to be light, not the concrete busting monstrosity we see in Begins, and 2). hauling metal cables and running a bailey bridge is going to be clanky loud no matter how stealthy you try to make... well, suffice to say, you wouldn’t even bother trying to make the vehicle stealthy because it would be pointless to do so.

Still, I like the Tumber. And I don’t want to see it changed... I just don’t buy the backstory.


Who said that the incarnation of the Tumbler given to Wayne by Fox was the original military design? Would it ever occur to you that if the military rejected it, theytried to improve or modify it to meet military needs? Or possibly modify it for law enforcement or even public sale? For example, the original civilian version of the Hummer was not identical to the military version. Fox'es department was "Research and Development", not, "Try Once and Give Up."
Also, your two arguments, (weight and purpose) contradict each other. Any vehicle that is going to fly through the air, even for a short amount of time, pulling steel cable behind it, would need to be VERY heavy to have the required inertia to continue sailing through the air dragging heavy steel cable behind it. A light vehicle would be dragged down by the weight of the cables, while a massive vehicle would have the needed inertia to continue moving forward.
That is one thing I liked about this movie, everything was grounded in a farily good state of realism. Most of the things he used either actually do exist, or could be easily made with current technology (the microwave emitter was pushing it, I will ceede that) Also, nothing was presented as perfect. The grapple gun had a weight limit, (300 lbs, I seem to recall). The suit shell could stop rounds up to a certain calibre, etc. What that did is set up the fact that while Wayne has a lot of cool toys, he is still going to have to be self reliant to get the job done.
*whew*

Also, the stealth mode would not be used to lay the bridge, as such a bridge would be forward of a main position. Getting TO A FORWARD, UNFORTIFIED/UNHELD POSITION MAY TAKE SOME STEALTH. The jump is made with the help of a jet engine, and they arent quiet, I will give you that, but the driver may still need to get to his position dark and silent.

[Atomicchuck3k]

and so begins the needless over-analysis

Ha!

[regwec]

i never understood the blue and gray suit. light blue is hardly stealth like

AAAAAAAaaaaarrrggghhh!

[iwalktheline92]

seriously its not.

[itsthebatman]

seriously its not.

I think Regwec's objection is in line with his previous observations that the 'stealth' argument is dubious at best for a comic-book movie. It's not realistic, its 'heightened reality'. Blue and grey could work if done right, it all depends whta looks best on FILM, not what possibly work in the real world, which is notoriously light on batsuit-clad vigilantes, mask-wearing villains and killer clowns.

[Katsuro]

i never understood the blue and gray suit. light blue is hardly stealth like

Black ink is expensive, so they used blue ink back in the day to stand in for black. That's all.

Of course, the look eventually became familiar, so even when they could afford black ink, they still went with blue sometimes.

[regwec]

I don't entirely accept that- Bob Kane drew Batman in black (with purple gloves!). Blue followed black as the standard of art in comics became more sophisticated and artists wished to show more detail despite basic printing mehods. After the "new look" Batman of the 50s (when we first saw the oval), blue and grey really became enshrined as Batman's colours. Black had a resurgence in the gloomy 90s, but blue is steadily becoming the predominant stylistic choice again.

[Octoberist]

anyway, in theory, the blue is just an artistic interpertation of the suit. I guess if you can get my drift, the blue/light blue in the comic world is actually 'black', if that makes sense.

in Hush, for example, it's just a way for Batman to stand out visually, and nothing more.

[regwec]

Again, I don't agree altogether. Modern printing methods have made it redundant to exchange blue for black- plenty of inkers manage to portray Batman in black, and those that prefer blue still have him appear in the same panel as characters wearing black. You're right that the original reason for the use of blue was a technical limitation, and some inkers might still use blue if they "mean" black purely because it looks better, but plenty of others prefer Batman to. de facto, wear blue.

[Nepenthes]

Yep, technical considerations and 'realism' aside it really is just a visual preference. That's all that matters.

I'd actually be very interested to see a poll on blue VS black. it seems a pretty even split on these boards.

[cryptic name]

i never thought i'd see the day where people were actually in favor of using blue on a live action batman. hmm, could be interesting, but it won't happen, not in this series at least. and i'm glad. you can argue about the levels of realism or stealth all you want, but at the end of the day, the idea of Bruce Wayne designing a bat suit that is grey and blue just seems stupid to me.

[Enriquespy]

¿And Gloves? those where some flacid gloves... cool (all the electric stuff and all... could be a cool weapon) but not so cool... Ideas?

[BatScot]

I don't entirely accept that- Bob Kane drew Batman in black ... I don't entirely accept that- Bob Kane drew Batman... period ;)

[BatScot]

i never thought i'd see the day where people were actually in favor of using blue on a live action batman...The archetype is Black&Gray. I accept that as absolute even when the stylistic history suggests otherwise. Having said that, I understand the reasoning behind an all-Black batsuit. But nothing will convince me that Blue&Gray—either in comic form or especially live action—is the better option.

[Brian Braddock]

I don't entirely accept that- Bob Kane drew Batman... period ;)


You may be interested in this thread from a while back then:-

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237901&highlight=BARBAR

;)

[Brian Braddock]

Ooops - my mistake - you've already seen it BatScot.

Oh well.

:o

[SamuraiSon6]

All you'd need is some cold weather and bam! ...nipples on the Batsuit.


hahahahaha:oldrazz:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Probably the only version of the Batman comic book costume I've seen done that feels practical and "right" to me...has got to be Paul Pope's Batman Year 100. The boots, the cowl, everything seemed to be hardnosed and pretty much for a purpose, I thought. The gray is something I'm already used to anyways with the books, but the costume was pretty damn cool in and of itself.

And, I'm not even getting into the Bob Kane discussion. I like to think that Bob Kane AND Bill Finger created Batman, and the world he inhabits. I like to leave it at that when it comes to the entitre controversy that exists.

[itsthebatman]

Probably the only version of the Batman comic book costume I've seen done that feels practical and "right" to me...has got to be Paul Pope's Batman Year 100. The boots, the cowl, everything seemed to be hardnosed and pretty much for a purpose, I thought. The gray is something I'm already used to anyways with the books, but the costume was pretty damn cool in and of itself.

And, I'm not even getting into the Bob Kane discussion. I like to think that Bob Kane AND Bill Finger created Batman, and the world he inhabits. I like to leave it at that when it comes to the entitre controversy that exists.

All well and good,but did you figure out what the sides are yet?
Have you read the TDK casting sides thread yet?

[ChrisBaleBatman]

LOL.....Yeah, I have. I figured it out.

Okay, what was the over/under on me figuring it out this soon?

[regwec]

Probably the only version of the Batman comic book costume I've seen done that feels practical and "right" to me...has got to be Paul Pope's Batman Year 100.
I didn't read that because the art made me want to throw up. Any good?

[Saint]

To get things a little more back on track, since we've been talking about an alternative to rubber, I think the Green Goblin II bodysuit from SM3 has a lot of potential. Take a look:
http://spiderman.sonypictures.com/downloads/wallpapers/spiderman3/images/800x600/goblin_harry3_800.jpg
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/trailer/10013473/trailer_64.jpg

While I can't speak to it's flexibility (though I assume it's more flexible than rubber) it seems well suited aesthetically. It's heavy enough to pass off as some sort of kevlar weave, and it would probably look good with some added detailing (seams or subtle plates).

[Noir]

To get things a little more back on track, since we've been talking about an alternative to rubber, I think the Green Goblin II bodysuit from SM3 has a lot of potential. Take a look:
http://spiderman.sonypictures.com/downloads/wallpapers/spiderman3/images/800x600/goblin_harry3_800.jpg
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/trailer/10013473/trailer_64.jpg

While I can't speak to it's flexibility (though I assume it's more flexible than rubber) it seems well suited aesthetically. It's heavy enough to pass off as some sort of kevlar weave, and it would probably look good with some added detailing (seems or subtle plates).


...IS HE GOING ****ING PAINTBALLING!?

[Nepenthes]

what a TURD of a design. it's actually quite mind boggling.


but you're right Saint that could be a better alternative to rubber

a downside might be it makes Bats look more like a man in costume. maybe too realistic. the sleek surface of the BB suit looks slightly unnatural, which is more threatening

[Crooklyn]

a downside might be it makes Bats look more like a man in costume. maybe too realistic. the sleek surface of the BB suit looks slightly unnatural, which is more threatening
Yes. Unnatural in the sense that he's clearly wearing armor. :huh:

[Nepenthes]

Yes. Unnatural in the sense that he's clearly wearing armor. :huh:

he wouldn't be 'clearly' wearing armour if we didn't already know it. the point is it looks more like skin or thin fabric than armour. there isn't actually any armor in real life that looks that sleek.

[Crooklyn]

he wouldn't be 'clearly' wearing armour if we didn't already know it. the point is it looks more like skin or thin fabric than armour.
You'd have to be pretty blind to not notice it's armor. Look at the chestplate and the abdominal design. Doesn't get more obvious than that.

there isn't actually any armor in real life that looks that sleek.
That's kinda because in real-life it's rubber...

[Nepenthes]

You'd have to be pretty blind to not notice it's armor. Look at the chestplate and the abdominal design. Doesn't get more obvious than that.

I'm talking in the reality of the movie. You can never actually identify the plating when Batman is in costume moving around (expect for the scene on the walkway with Rachel but here he's purposely revealing himself to a friend, standing still under lights) The crooks already think he's a demon before the hallucinations in the Narrows. He is perfectly smooth. That is damn weird for someone ho can take his kind of damage, like he's granite or something.

That's kinda because in real-life it's rubber...

What? Yeah that's my point. Rubber has an advantage because if you just call it Nomex it becomes an 'armour' that looks more unique and alien than anything we know to be real.

[Crooklyn]

I'm talking in the reality of the movie. You can never actually identify the plating when Batman is in costume moving around (expect for the scene on the walkway with Rachel but here he's purposely revealing himself to a friend, standing still under lights) The crooks already think he's a demon before the hallucinations in the Narrows. He is perfectly smooth. That is damn weird for someone ho can take his kind of damage, like he's granite or something.
Well then you're completely changing up the situation. The crooks either see the costume in plain view (which as I already said, would take a blind person to not see it's armor)...or they don't get a good look at it (in which case, it doesn't matter what material is being worn).

[Agentsands77]

I think there are fabric-y alternatives to rubber that avoid making the costume appear entirely like cloth, and I'm fine with going after those. The Green Goblin part II costume is crap, though - nothing about that is worthwhile.

The armor look has always appealed to me, though. It's just screams "The Dark Knight," even though I know that's a far more literal way of presenting the knight aspect that has traditionally been taken. It might not bring out an "animal" vibe for Batman, but it does look very cool.

[Nepenthes]

Well then you're completely changing up the situation. The crooks either see the costume in plain view (which as I already said, would take a blind person to not see it's armor)...or they don't get a good look at it (in which case, it doesn't matter what material is being worn).


I said "you never can never identify the plating" when he's action....not whether the suit is smooth or not. I think they CAN identify that it's not normal everyday armour, the kind worn by SWAT or military or Green GoblinII. It also wouldn't have the same texture when they're jumping all over him.

Even then, Rachael & Gordon must still look at him and go 'wtf is that costume'. The plating still looks pretty alien and formidable even though at this point they can see it's obviously not his natural form. Point is it doesn't look like armour they've seen before and so it heightens Batmans mystery and prowess. Even for his allies who are getting a good view.



Basically I'm saying a weave pattern or anything more realistic than the current BB suit makes Batman less imposing, because it resembles real life more closely. I'm a huge fan of Nolans 'realism' but I can allow that Batman should look 'different' from what's commonly known. I'm gonna leave it at that.


I think there are fabric-y alternatives to rubber that avoid making the costume appear entirely like cloth, and I'm fine with going after those.

If those fabrics are nice and smooth like rubber, then awesome. But still I don't really see the need, I really like the bulk of the BB suit and they only place he needs more flexibility is in the legs so he doesn't look funny when he runs. Otherwise he was doing roundhouse kicks and leaping of buildings, he's pretty flexible.

It might not bring out an "animal" vibe for Batman, but it does look very cool.

His has the neck and shoulders of a panther!

[Agentsands77]

If those fabrics are nice and smooth like rubber, then awesome.
Agreed. The suit shouldn't appear fabric-y.

But still I don't really see the need, I really like the bulk of the BB suit and they only place he needs more flexibility is in the legs so he doesn't look funny when he runs. Otherwise he was doing roundhouse kicks and leaping of buildings, he's pretty flexible.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I was VERY happy with the BEGINS suit. I personally wouldn't change much on the suit and would keep the rubber (sure, I'd try to streamline it a bit and improve upon the suit's functionality, but I thought it looked great.

His has the neck and shoulders of a panther!
This is true. If you ask me, the BEGINS suit looked the most animal-like of any of the Batman suits to date.

[Enriquespy]

...IS HE GOING ****ING PAINTBALLING!?

YOu are 3 months late...

I dont like it, It have not a "SKin-armour" feel to it... I mean the texture.

[Saint]

Why should it have a "skin" feel to it?

[Wams]

Silver chrome lenses can work.
http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs12/i/2006/286/3/d/Bat_scribble_at_the_BANK_by_BroHawk.jpg

:batman:
:supes:

[Agentsands77]

See, I think it will look very Daredevil-esque, and that didn't do anything for me.

[Octoberist]

it's always people online who are 'obsessed' with the lenses....i've always thought they were just an artistic choice to make batman mysterious, and then later, writers kinda used the lenses as a coy explaination.

[Saint]

it's always people online who are 'obsessed' with the lenses....i've always thought they were just an artistic choice to make batman mysterious, and then later, writers kinda used the lenses as a coy explaination.

What does it matter if they started out as artistic license? They're an integral part of Batman's appearance, regardless.

[BatScot]

Btw, do you have a link or does Batscot have a link?http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/warrior_96_may_camo.htm

Camouflage effectiveness tests performed at night... revealed that the black flight suit performed well because of its high reflectance in the NIR against a painted urban background. The two color medium grey urban camouflage uniform, and the monotone grey uniform also performed well in this setting.

[BatScot]

As BatScot would be happy to tell you--as he has been telling people for years--a study by the US military (if I recall correctly) showed that grey is as effective as black when used for night camo.Given that both mono black and mono gray work at night then a combination of the two must also work at night... wearing a gray jacket that works over black pants that work does not negate the effectiveness of one or the other—either the colors blend into the night environment or they do not, and as far as the FAS is concerned—and as Saint has said—they do blend effectively. Period.

[bdsproductions]

Silver chrome lenses can work.
http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs12/i/2006/286/3/d/Bat_scribble_at_the_BANK_by_BroHawk.jpg

:batman:
:supes:

Something 'bout that just don't look right...

[Rynan]

Silver chrome lenses can work.

Nice drawing. But what that has to do with costume design and actor's effectiveness is lost on me.

But thanks for posting.

[Muziko]

Something 'bout that just don't look right...

It's phuckin' hideous. That's what doesn't look right about it. People... for crying out loud let it go with the goddamn lenses already.

[Muziko]

Something 'bout that just don't look right...

It's phuckin' hideous. That's what doesn't look right about it. People!... for crying out loud let it go with the goddamn lenses already!

[Nepenthes]

Lenses are definitely not a good idea and we don't need to go into the reasons once again....


But I don't see why there could be isolated shots in the movie where his eyes appear blank. There were a few that almost looked like this in BB, I think the shot before he leaps at Ra's ninjas at the end. Only do it when it'd have maximum impact, and use CGI.

[BatScot]

Lenses are definitely not a good idea and we don't need to go into the reasons once again....I dunno, having some sort of protective eyewear so that you don't get crap in your eyes seems like a pretty good idea... Special Ops use 'em, SWAT use 'em... you gotta figure that Batman would at least consider them. It seems to me that protecting his eyes would be more important to Batman than having bad guys see into his baby browns.

[itsthebatman]

I dunno, having some sort of protective eyewear so that you don't get crap in your eyes seems like a pretty good idea... Special Ops use 'em, SWAT use 'em... you gotta figure that Batman would at least consider them. It seems to me that protecting his eyes would be more important to Batman than having bad guys see into his baby browns.

But he can hypnotise his enemies with those babies. It was one of the tricks he picked up in Bhutan.

[Wams]

Nice drawing. But what that has to do with costume design and actor's effectiveness is lost on me.

But thanks for posting.


The thread is called " A new look for Bats? " Duh!

:batman:
:supes:

[Nepenthes]

I dunno, having some sort of protective eyewear so that you don't get crap in your eyes seems like a pretty good idea... Special Ops use 'em, SWAT use 'em... you gotta figure that Batman would at least consider them. It seems to me that protecting his eyes would be more important to Batman than having bad guys see into his baby browns.


I prefer to consider these things in terms of how it will effect the story telling not whether it's realistic in the logic of the movie-verse. Otherwise Batman *should* be wearing a full face mask so his teeth don't get knocked out. But of course that would look stupid and hinder the movie.

Protecting his eyes is important though I admit, just not so important he should cover his eyes permanently - maybe a scene could show that there are actually thin lenses in his mask we just can't see. But really what would that add to the movie? It's doesn't carry as much weight as memory cloth or Nomex.


As I said before I'd like to see blank eyes in *some* scenes simply because it looks cool. Not lenses though, CGI.

[IzzyJG99]

Clearly there are better materials out there. Personally they should've used the same material they use on the Spidey Suit, but a bit more thicker and defined to show it's armored nature. This seems to be the legacy of Tim Burton come back to haunt us. He's the first to come up with a big black armored suit and the other shows followed suit and now it's the only way we see Batman on film and it's stuck.

It's sort of a flawed logic. On one hand Batman is a mortal man who needs armor. But on the other hand he does things that required a lycra suits for nimble movements. It's a catch twenty-two.

Eitherway the next suit I am sure will be good. Out of all the suits I felt the Begins Suit was the most realistic in design and had a great origin. That was important. The origin of the suit. That made the movie work. Some small improvements I am sure will be made on the new suit. Maybe a few different shades of black to dark gray and a better cowl/cape melding.

[Saint]

As I said before I'd like to see blank eyes in *some* scenes simply because it looks cool. Not lenses though, CGI.
You make no sense. The way to create occasionally blank eyes is not magic switch-o eyes that mystically become blank: the solution is retractable lenses. You know, since Batman doesn't have magic switch-o eyes, and he does have lenses.

[Nepenthes]

^ no because the existence of lenses doesn't need to be raised. I think it's unnecessary. we already know he has a hi-tech suit and we can believe in him with unprotected eyes the same way we can accept an unprotected mouth or that he can glide on a cape etc etc.

in BB there's shots where his eyes look blank, e.g. when he scowls at Ra's ninjas before grabbing that guy and leaping over the rail. it looks great. I'm just saying there should be more like that - it wouldn't be like 'WTF where did his eyes go'...they'd just be very dramatic, frightening shots as he's confronting his enemies. I doubt the average viewer would become confused here

sorry I should have said *shots* instead of scenes

[StorminNorman]

^ no because the existence of lenses doesn't need to be raised. I think it's unnecessary. we already know he has a hi-tech suit and we can believe in him with unprotected eyes the same way we can accept an unprotected mouth or that he can glide on a cape etc etc.

in BB there's shots where his eyes look blank, e.g. when he scowls at Ra's ninjas before grabbing that guy and leaping over the rail. it looks great. I'm just saying there should be more like that - it wouldn't be like 'WTF where did his eyes go'...they'd just be very dramatic, frightening shots as he's confronting his enemies. I doubt the average viewer would become confused here

sorry I should have said *shots* instead of scenes

If you are going to do the "classic white eyed Batman" - that is the way to pull it off. No lenses, no special technology - just play it off like a lighting trick.

[Saint]

^ no because the existence of lenses doesn't need to be raised. I think it's unnecessary.
Incorrect. You want blank eyes, which means lenses are necessary, unless Batman has magic powers I'm unaware of.

we already know he has a hi-tech suit and we can believe in him with unprotected eyes the same way we can accept an unprotected mouth or that he can glide on a cape etc etc.
It's not about protection; it's about giving him the tools that Batman has. Night vision, thermal vision, optical zoom, a targeting HUD--it's about Batman being Batman. Same reason he has pointy ears and little blades on his gloves.

in BB there's shots where his eyes look blank, e.g. when he scowls at Ra's ninjas before grabbing that guy and leaping over the rail.
No, his eyes do not look blank: in such shots he is only turning his eyes to the extreme right or left (hint: he's looking to his left because he's about to dive at the ninja there)--dark eyes mix with dark make-up, creating the illusion for those not bothering to look closely. There was similar confusion when the trailers came out--people thought the eyes were blank when he shouts "Rachel." HD trailers later revealed it to be an eye-turn, not magic switch-o eyes.
I doubt the average viewer would become confused here
What does the average viewer have to do with anything? I don't care if they're confused or not. What I do care about is the stupid idea that Batman should somehow have blank eyes without lenses. It makes no sense, and it omits a portion of his equipment for no good reason.

[bdsproductions]

I say just keep the suit basically the same, make the cowl a little less bulky, and change the bat-symbol to a darker shade of black.

[Nepenthes]

Saint you're either purposely ignoring the point of my post or you failed reading comprehension at school. It's a dramatic visual effect that doesn't need too involve the reality within the film - he doesn't have to have magic eyes or retractable lenses for it to work. It just looks nice when you're glimpsing 'the bat-man' in the shadow.

Or how's this then. Instead of CGI just ask Bale if he can do his little eye-turn in more scenes, to create the illusion of blank eyes. That's realistic for you right? It was friggin' scary when he looked at those ninjas - perhaps all he did was roll back his eyes. At this point if you can't see where I coming from we'll just leave it at that. You either agree or you don't. :up:

[BatScot]

I prefer to consider these things in terms of how it will effect the story...Ah yes, the dramatic context...

Otherwise Batman *should* be wearing a full face mask… Should he? While Special Ops, SWAT, etc., routinely wear protective eyewear it is only by exception that they wear full protective face masks.

The dramatic argument is by no means absolute. But from a practical perspective, protective eyewear—lenses, googles, whatever—makes absolute sense. And although I myself am not necessarily in favor of lenses—if only for dramatic reasons—the “grounded in reality” argument suggests that a character such as Batman whose field of operations exist in the “world as we know it” would more likely choose to protect his eyes than not. So I’m perfectly fine with a lensless Batman… but I reject any argument that states that the ‘character’ wouldn’t or shouldn’t.

[Saint]

Saint you're either purposely ignoring the point of my post or you failed reading comprehension at school. It's a dramatic visual effect that doesn't need too involve the reality within the film - he doesn't have to have magic eyes or retractable lenses for it to work. It just looks nice when you're glimpsing 'the bat-man' in the shadow.
I'm fairly certain I addressed that with all my "switch-o" sarcasm, the implication being that it's a stupid idea, especially given the established universe. If we were talking about a heavily stylized film in the realm of Sin City, or Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, it would be a different matter--but we are not.

Or how's this then. Instead of CGI just ask Bale if he can do his little eye-turn in more scenes, to create the illusion of blank eyes. That's realistic for you right?
No, just stupid.

It was friggin' scary when he looked at those ninjas - perhaps all he did was roll back his eyes.
He did not roll back his eyes; he turned them to the left. This is fairly obvious watching the film at regular speeds, but if you really don't see it perhaps you need to slow down your DVD. It would be ridiculous if he did roll his eyes; "I'm about to dive off this rooftop at a squad of ninjas--I'd better roll my eyes back so I can't see what I'm doing."

Retractable lenses are the obvious solution.

[abiwankenobi]

I think what Nepenthes is saying is that it should be done as a lighting effect. The scene in BB where Batman is talking to Gordon before he goes to interrogate Flass the light kind of reflects off his eyes making them look blank or white. It is a very practical way to include that supernatural look of Batmans eye's. Saint I know he has lenses in the comic book but on film I fear it will lack something really important. Does he have lenses in TAS? If not then the point is made over the lenses argument. They are meant to convey Batman's undying rage. I feel this is best conveyed on film through the actors eye's. Lenses on Spiderman are necessary for the overall look of the character but keep us detached from his emotional output. Granted his mouth is covered and Batman's isn't so there is a bit more that Batman has to work with but at the same time it is the combination of the two that gives us Bale's very authentic performance. But please no retractable lenses we already went there for BF and at the same time defeats the purpose of why you want them there in the first place.

[abiwankenobi]

Double Post

[Saint]

I think what Nepenthes is saying is that it should be done as a lighting effect.
I know that's what he's trying to say: I'm saying it's stupid.

It is a very practical way to include that supernatural look of Batmans eye's.
No, the practical way is to give him lenses. Artistic license to such a degree is out of place given the visual style of the film--it's simply not appropriate. It would be fine for a Batman film in the realm of 300, Sin City, or Sky Captain (would love to see the latter; modernized of course), but not for this film.

Saint I know he has lenses in the comic book but on film I fear it will lack something really important. Does he have lenses in TAS?
If not then the point is made over the lenses argument. They are meant to convey Batman's undying rage. I feel this is best conveyed on film through the actors eye's. Lenses on Spiderman are necessary for the overall look of the character but keep us detached from his emotional output.
Undying rage? Please. They exist for the sake of mystery, not rage (hint: when Batman is exceptionally angry, artists will often draw in the pupils--the example that comes to mind is the first issue of JLA: The Nail).

They Granted his mouth is covered and Batman's isn't so there is a bit more that Batman has to work with but at the same time it is the combination of the two that gives us Bale's very authentic performance.
Which is why I specify retractable lenses, so the eyes can be seen when necessary.

But please no retractable lenses we already went there for BF and at the same time defeats the purpose of why you want them there in the first place.
Ah yes, the classic "It sucked in Batman Forever, therefore it must suck no matter what!" By that logic, we'd best not make a Batman film at all, eh?

[COMPO]

does any one have an idea of what type of armour Batman shoudl have to protect himself in the next movie.

[iwalktheline92]

does any one have an idea of what type of armour Batman shoudl have to protect himself in the next movie.

Batman wears Kevlar.

[abiwankenobi]

I know that's what he's trying to say: I'm saying it's stupid.


No, the practical way is to give him lenses. Artistic license to such a degree is out of place given the visual style of the film--it's simply not appropriate. It would be fine for a Batman film in the realm of 300, Sin City, or Sky Captain (would love to see the latter; modernized of course), but not for this film.


Undying rage? Please. They exist for the sake of mystery, not rage (hint: when Batman is exceptionally angry, artists will often draw in the pupils--the example that comes to mind is the first issue of JLA: The Nail).


Which is why I specify retractable lenses, so the eyes can be seen when necessary.


Ah yes, the classic "It sucked in Batman Forever, therefore it must suck no matter what!" By that logic, we'd best not make a Batman film at all, eh?

Okay now you are just being a dick.

I also like that you fail to actually site my argument in its entirety. The eyes becoming blank did happen at one very specific point in the film. The light reflected off of them like it would an animal. It is the scene prior to Batman's interogation of Flass. After he says "storms coming" they cut to Batman crouched on a railing and his eyes are freaking white because of the angle he is at.

I am simply sighting where Nolan actually chose to do that. I am sighting an actual shot from the movie. Look closely, I happened to notice it on the first viewing because I LIKE THE WHITE EYES LOOK ON FILM, just not with lenses, it isn't natural enough for me, that is my opinion.

[Saint]

I also like that you fail to actually site my argument in its entirety. The eyes becoming blank did happen at one very specific point in the film. The light reflected off of them like it would an animal. It is the scene prior to Batman's interogation of Flass. After he says "storms coming" they cut to Batman crouched on a railing and his eyes are freaking white because of the angle he is at.
Yeah, that never happens. Perhaps you should watch the film more closely. I suggest using the slow play function of your player. His eyes are turned slightly to his right (because Gordon is moving towards the door when Batman says "Storm's coming," and thus Bale's eyes follow him) and as in all other cases where unobservant people think they see white eyes, the dark irises are merely blending with the dark make-up. Here is the screen shot:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3118/72464691ws4.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4651/42768645ws5.jpg
I am simply sighting where Nolan actually chose to do that.
Except he never did.
I am sighting an actual shot from the movie.
The shot that never happened.
that is my opinion.
And my opinion is that yours is stupid (and also based on false information). I thought that was clear?

[Enriquespy]

Batman wears Kevlar.

Kevlar is overrated, its kinda of the new Spandex in Comics costumes...

[Nepenthes]

He wears 'Nomex' and he should continue doing so.

[Saint]

He wears 'Nomex' and he should continue doing so.
No, he wears a kevlar and nomex bi-weave. Nomex isn't armour; it's just fire-retardant.

[abiwankenobi]

Saint,
Your point is well made and I humbly submit to your correction. It would seem that there are quite a few shots in the film where this is misconstrued.
Still I don't think they will go for lenses in TDK, retractable or permanent.
Thank you for taking the time to actually capture the screen shots, outline
Bale's cornea and throw my argument flat on its face. Yes I admit it I was wrong in my perspective of that viewing. I was probably too stoned to realize that when I first saw the film which by the way is a habit I have recently gave up doing, smoking grass that is.
I think I will enjoy the new film much more on a sober mind and avoid these confusions in the future.
I am also expecting a snide remark from you on the latter subject, my feeling is that you just cannot resist that tempation but then again I may be wrong about you.

[Saint]

Saint,
Your point is well made and I humbly submit to your correction. It would seem that there are quite a few shots in the film where this is misconstrued.
Still I don't think they will go for lenses in TDK, retractable or permanent.
Thank you for taking the time to actually capture the screen shots, outline
Bale's cornea and throw my argument flat on its face. Yes I admit it I was wrong in my perspective of that viewing. I was probably too stoned to realize that when I first saw the film which by the way is a habit I have recently gave up doing, smoking grass that is.
I think I will enjoy the new film much more on a sober mind and avoid these confusions in the future.
I am also expecting a snide remark from you on the latter subject, my feeling is that you just cannot resist that tempation but then again I may be wrong about you.

I certainly would have a snide remark, but I can't seem to think of one clever enough, oddly.

[Nepenthes]

as in all other cases where unobservant people think they see white eyes, the dark irises are merely blending with the dark make-up. Here is the screen shot:

dude you're hilarious- in a very lame way. you seriously think we 'not observing the film correctly'? No I think we're noticing that his eyes *appear* blank, because they do, because his pupils are almost invisible. oh my god, so unobservant!!!!!!!!!!

[COMPO]

hey, how did Batman's suit change after Knightfall.

[itsthebatman]

hey, how did Batman's suit change after Knightfall.
Went from blue and black, briefs look, to all-black.

[itsthebatman]

Or do you mean AzBats look during Knightquest and Knightsend?

[COMPO]

no i meant batman. Do you have a pic.

[itsthebatman]

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2003/dec17/azrael.jpg
AzBats.
http://images.quizilla.com/G/GhostmanX/1122387416_sbatshadow.jpg
Pre-Knightfall.
Can't find a decent one of the black suit. He wore it during Contagion, Legacy, Cataclysm and No Mans Land storylines, amongst others.

[Noir]

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2003/dec17/azrael.jpg
AzBats.
http://images.quizilla.com/G/GhostmanX/1122387416_sbatshadow.jpg
Pre-Knightfall.
Can't find a decent one of the black suit. He wore it during Contagion, Legacy, Cataclysm and No Mans Land storylines, amongst others.
Jean Paul is cool and all but I never ever want to see that suit in a movie.

[itsthebatman]

Jean Paul is cool and all but I never ever want to see that suit in a movie.

On, sweet mother of all that is divine, no bloody way.

[Noir]

On, sweet mother of all that is divine, no bloody way.
Exactly.

[Nepenthes]

hey, how did Batman's suit change after Knightfall.

http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/vodc/batmanhauntedgotham/2.jpghttp://www.comicsvf.com/scans/vodc/batmanhauntedgotham/1.jpg

that was basically it (except for the skull on the belt) . around this time his cape was also longer and blowy and he was generally more creepy looking

[itsthebatman]

Ah, Kelly Jones. So many covers, so little talent.

[Noir]

Kelly Jones is Satan.

[itsthebatman]

That's a bit harsh.
http://images.google.ie/url?q=http://media-cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/static/gaetano/satan.jpg&usg=__6GIqUR-FtB8sT6Bb_VDDqCkjBSs=
Satan's little helper maybe.

[kenellard]

I wouldn't trust kelly jones to draw a picture of my pet cactus, nevermind a whole comic book

[Noir]

Why the hell did he draw Batmans ears so f'n big?

[itsthebatman]

I wouldn't trust kelly jones to draw a picture of my pet cactus, nevermind a whole comic book
http://www.epcc.edu/nwlibrary/borderlands/09_11_1.jpg
Too late.