Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Gianakin_]

I'd really like to see a military looking Batsuit. Yellow belt comprised of pouches, leather cape, army boots, liquid armor and all that. I think it'd be an equally interesting look.

[The Dark Guybrush]

my biggest gripe about the new era of batsuit is...

the golden belt of doom.

[The Redux 714]

I'm talking in the context of real-life, not the movie. I'm more in favor of using the same material used in the Spider-Man suits than I am in the age-old rubber.

As has been mentioned hundreds of times in this thread, liquid armor exists as a military prototype, much in the same way as the glorified "electrical blanket" featured in BB was. Seeing as how no one complained when that was used, I don't see how this case is any different.

Liquid armor applied to thin fabric material (in the context of the movie) provides not only flexibility, but suitable protection.

Ah, see, I had no idea that was a real thing. Hell, i didn' teven know that was a fake thing.

That might work...

[BatScot]

Why?Because less black is gray and Batman wears gray and black & gray is realistic for stealth / urban night camo.

For god's sake people someone who's Ninja trained isn't going to wear a grey suit.This fantasy notion of the “all black ninja” has more to do with Kabuki theater than historical accuracy. In actual practice, ninja did not wear the commonly depicted “all black” suit. The Shinobi Shouzoku has various colors, gray, yellowish red, dark blue, camouflage and etc. And Ninja more often choose yellowish red rather than black. In the end, black—as being representative of the “ninja” and a color for stealth—is no more definitive than any other dark color. In fact, it is the least authentic

Shush. Don't tell ninjas that.See Nijna fallacy above.

[BatScot]

I respect where the comic book fans are coming from but being that I never really read the comics myself I can't really relate to wanting a cloth suit.
The term 'cloth suit' is an oversimplification.
The science behind the 'cloth suit' is actually far more advanced than anything that has been presented on screen as reasons for a rubber suit.
That science is based on existing technologies.
A traditional costume is realistic and feasible.

[The Dark Guybrush]

realistic and feasible but not ever gonna happen

[BatScot]

realistic and feasible but not ever gonna happenPerhaps, but at least it refutes all the BS arguments for why it couldn't happen... anyway, that a traditional approach has been proven to be realistic and feasible is a victory in and of itself.

[Hobodeluxe]

There's only a handful of things a batsuit can be made out of. Armor, cloth, and chainmail.

Wrong. There's liquid armor,carbon fiber technology and a number of other things either available or in the experimental stages.

There's no reason Bats couldn't wear a leather jumpsuit and it be believable when it blocks a bullet or knife.

I'd much rather see that than a thick ,bulky rubber suit or a suit of pads over mesh that still looks like rubber painted to look like pads over mesh.

And that's what the pants of the new Batsuit look like to me. Rubber pants that are made to look like they aren't rubber but failing miserably.

[The Dark Guybrush]

why not just airbrush the suit on?

[Silver Knight]

Honestly when should we be expecting a new pic?

[CConn]

Meaning?

There's only a handful of things a batsuit can be made out of. Armor, cloth, and chainmail.

Cloth ofers no protection, while any idiot with an arrow can shoot through chainmail. Armor seems the most likely candidate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LdfOFw7jy4

Can I call you an utter idiot now or would you just like to concede that fact yourself?

[The Redux 714]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LdfOFw7jy4

Can I call you an utter idiot now or would you just like to concede that fact yourself?

Depends. Can I call you an utter idiot for not being able to read?

Ah, see, I had no idea that was a real thing. Hell, i didn' teven know that was a fake thing.

That might work...

Here, I'll go ahead and state this again, one last time: I didn't know that liquid armor stuff exsisted, in any shape, form, or fashion. It might just work out if it was employed.

You people...moan and gripe about Heath Ledger's Joker, and do the same for the Batsuit...why bother even being a fan of something if all you're gonna do is ***** about it?

And before it starts in, and I know someone smartass is thinking this, I was discussing the suit, not griping about how much I hate one thing over another.

[jimmy]

Ladies, let's keep this civil.

[CaptainClown]

why not just airbrush the suit on?

Genius, they could just have Bale wear a green suit and they change his suit accordingly.

[bunk]

It's nice to see the old batsuit discussion thread gettin some play again.

All it took was another "armor and spandex" argument.

[CConn]

Depends. Can I call you an utter idiot for not being able to read?1). It would be reading comprehension, not reading, you child.

2). I DID comprehend what you were saying; you said cloth offers no protection. The video clearly shows that - when coated with that liquid, it does in fact offer a great deal of protection. Does it count as "armor"? Sure. But you and I both know that wasn't the type of armor you were talking about in your original post.
Here, I'll go ahead and state this again, one last time: I didn't know that liquid armor stuff exsisted, in any shape, form, or fashion. It might just work out if it was employed.

You people...moan and gripe about Heath Ledger's Joker, and do the same for the Batsuit...why bother even being a fan of something if all you're gonna do is ***** about it?

And before it starts in, and I know someone smartass is thinking this, I was discussing the suit, not griping about how much I hate one thing over another.And here it goes; you trying to cover your own ass by making up lame excuses. Do everyone a favor, be a man, just admit you were wrong and shut up.

[MagicPrime]

Tale as old as time.

I'm fine with the armor, I think spandex or spiderman-ish stuff would look crappy on batman.

[The Redux 714]

1). It would be reading comprehension, not reading, you child.

2). I DID comprehend what you were saying; you said cloth offers no protection. The video clearly shows that - when coated with that liquid, it does in fact offer a great deal of protection. Does it count as "armor"? Sure. But you and I both know that wasn't the type of armor you were talking about in your original post.
And here it goes; you trying to cover your own ass by making up lame excuses. Do everyone a favor, be a man, just admit you were wrong and shut up.

Ok, fine, I'll go ahead and spell this out for you, since I suppose assuming you could reason, as an intelligent person would do, is far too much.

I was speaking about cloth, yes, but I didn't know that super-duper nail polish crap exsisted. Cloth doesn't offer protection in the terms I was speaking of, i.e., spandex, cotton, what have you.

And I said, twice previous to this, almost in rapid succession, that it might just work. (#3) I also said I didn't know about it until it was brought up, and haven't argued against it.

I will not admit I was 100% wrong about what I said, and if anyone wants to bicker about that, I'd love to see you take a shot to the chest with the protection of your, 'I like guys in uniform' Spider-Man t-shirt.

I will, and basically have, admit that cloth might offer the protection need to be Batman, PROVIDED that it has that liquid armor stuff. It would also make use of the "classic" Batman uniform, so it's a win-win situation.

Now that I have made every possible letter of my posts mind-numbingly clear for all to see, if anyone else has any questions, feel free to PM me. (PM..ya know...personal message. I asked that because I won't be coming back in here from another 100 pages or so, and won't have any clue you people say...just so we are perfectly clear)

[CConn]

Ok, fine, I'll go ahead and spell this out for you, since I suppose assuming you could reason, as an intelligent person would do, is far too much.

I was speaking about cloth, yes, but I didn't know that super-duper nail polish crap exsisted. Cloth doesn't offer protection in the terms I was speaking of, i.e., spandex, cotton, what have you.I understand that, but, I also fully realized that you were using it as an argument as to why cloth could never be used, this liquid armor, however, allows cloth to be used believably. And yes, I realize you didn't know about it. Which is what's so stupid. Not only has it been posted on these boards about 40 times a week, it's also been talked about many, many times in the comics.

Because, if you didn't know, Batman DOES wear armor in the comics. And every single time he's in anyway attacked, it's mentioned. But it's not a bunch of pieces of plastic glued to a rubber suit, it's all underneath cloth. Anyone who's trying to have any meaningful impact in the discussion should realize this.
I will, and basically have, admit that cloth might offer the protection need to be Batman, PROVIDED that it has that liquid armor stuff. It would also make use of the "classic" Batman uniform, so it's a win-win situation.Exactly. And now I fully expect you never to argue against the idea of an (enhanced) cloth suit again.
Now that I have made every possible letter of my posts mind-numbingly clear for all to see, if anyone else has any questions, feel free to PM me. (PM..ya know...personal message. I asked that because I won't be coming back in here from another 100 pages or so, and won't have any clue you people say...just so we are perfectly clear)Since I won't be PMing this to you, and it's pretty much for the benefit of everyone else, allow me to just explain to everyone that what Redux is doing here is running away from the debate because he's embarrassed he was proven wrong on a subject.

[regwec]

Who cares? It seems everyone ends up getting annoyed with the Hype and abandoning it.

[Hobodeluxe]

what the armor fans don't realize is that to us who want cloth or some other lighter material the rubber suit is pushing our suspension of disbelief too far.

I'd believe a thin,light,high tech material could protect him far easier than I could believe a huge ,heavy rubber suit would allow him to move like he should be able to.

How in the world is he supposed to be able to fight wearing a suit that looks like it weighs 100+lbs
I'd much rather him dodge or block a punch than wear something so heavy that he can just absorb it.
Hell he might as well be Iron Man if that's the case. Who needs all that martial arts training if you can just tank your way through?

[regwec]

He just just buy a large, heavy, bullet-prove sphere; in which he can run around like a giant angry hamster.

[TheBatman072]

what the armor fans don't realize is that to us who want cloth or some other lighter material the rubber suit is pushing our suspension of disbelief too far.

I'd believe a thin,light,high tech material could protect him far easier than I could believe a huge ,heavy rubber suit would allow him to move like he should be able to.

How in the world is he supposed to be able to fight wearing a suit that looks like it weighs 100+lbs
I'd much rather him dodge or block a punch than wear something so heavy that he can just absorb it.
Hell he might as well be Iron Man if that's the case. Who needs all that martial arts training if you can just tank your way through?


Well, in the movie universe, it's not rubber.

In the movie universe, it was made for combat and/or advanced infantry. So it's lightweight and flexible. It's "wetsuit armor" basically.

So...there you go.

[teseract]

The point is, cloth does not look like the skin of a creature. Cloth does not look like the comics (no cloth whatsoever creates that kind of muscle definition). Black is a psychological colour associated with darkness, evil, misery and fear in western civilisation etc. (black ravens, black funeral dress). There were NO LENSES in the comic suit otherwise the Riddler in this shot would have worn lenses too.

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2004/jan14/riddler2.jpg

The lenses are a recent retcon to explain the white eyes, which have been there pretty much since the Bat's début and are nothing more than a relict of limited printing technologies back in the early days of comics (moire sauce) that survived into the modern era.

So, grey, while more comic accurate or even realistic doesn't contribute lick to the fear factor like black does (besides who wants a camouflage Batman in a movie anyhow, you're supposed to see him on screen). Cloth doesn't convey the "creature" factor it looks just like that, cloth. Black rubber combines the psychological effect of colours with a material that looks like second skin. Rubber is the way to go for Batman, Lenses are not necessary and only hinder the actor.

[The Redux 714]

I understand that, but, I also fully realized that you were using it as an argument as to why cloth could never be used, this liquid armor, however, allows cloth to be used believably. And yes, I realize you didn't know about it. Which is what's so stupid. Not only has it been posted on these boards about 40 times a week, it's also been talked about many, many times in the comics.

Because, if you didn't know, Batman DOES wear armor in the comics. And every single time he's in anyway attacked, it's mentioned. But it's not a bunch of pieces of plastic glued to a rubber suit, it's all underneath cloth. Anyone who's trying to have any meaningful impact in the discussion should realize this.
Exactly. And now I fully expect you never to argue against the idea of an (enhanced) cloth suit again.
Since I won't be PMing this to you, and it's pretty much for the benefit of everyone else, allow me to just explain to everyone that what Redux is doing here is running away from the debate because he's embarrassed he was proven wrong on a subject.

Well...ok, I lied, I'm back. I admit it. I'm liar. May God strike me down.

I'm curious as to exactly how I was wrong. It's one thing to be mistaken about something, but quite another to come to a conclusion about something without all knowledge. Yes, I admit I didn't check every possible source, nor did I read every page of this thread. Matter of fact, with few exceptions, this is my first dealings with this particular thread. I never bothered to come in here because I had a hunch it would be a bunch of whiny children, like yourself, debating over any possible suit there is and trying desperatly to prove their own point, rather than discuss and be open to others opinions. Boy was I wrong [/sarcasm]

Not only did I go so far to say I was wrong, but I even said I think it would work. How is this not good enough? What do I need to say, "Body armor sucks."? Tough ****, that ain't gonna happen. Yes, I do like the cloth suit. I think (with teh right color scheme) it makes Batman seem more of a bat than a guy in armor.

But even your "cloth suit" argument isn't even that. What you are talking is, indeed, armor. The only difference is that you are looking through a slightly different scope. The simple fact is, when you boil it down, simple cloth just is not gonna cut it, nor is any basic material, be it spandex or leather.

Armor, in some form, really is the only way to go.

[CaptainClown]

This is an endless debate with people who believe the cloth is more believable then the armor and the armor is more believable than the cloth. It is an endless cycle that should only end with a civil war.

[cryptic name]

what the armor fans don't realize is that to us who want cloth or some other lighter material the rubber suit is pushing our suspension of disbelief too far.

I'd believe a thin,light,high tech material could protect him far easier than I could believe a huge ,heavy rubber suit would allow him to move like he should be able to.

How in the world is he supposed to be able to fight wearing a suit that looks like it weighs 100+lbs
I'd much rather him dodge or block a punch than wear something so heavy that he can just absorb it.
Hell he might as well be Iron Man if that's the case. Who needs all that martial arts training if you can just tank your way through?

thin material letting him shrug off a bullet is just as unbelieveable to me. even if it's material with that spray on kevlar, the force of the bullet would still kill him without some serious padding or a trauma plate. unless you think he should be able to dodge bullets too

[jtfaria]

He just just buy a large, heavy, bullet-prove sphere; in which he can run around like a giant angry hamster.

Hamsters frighten me. It's time my enemies shared my dread.

[CaptainClown]

ya I know, the force from something like that would at least break a rib. Also him jumping from building to building he would break bones if he didn't have padding and so on and so forth in that matter

[BatScot]

Well, in the movie universe, it's not rubber.

In the movie universe, it was made for combat and/or advanced infantry. So it's lightweight and flexible. It's "wetsuit armor" basically.Anything can be explained in the "movie universe" even armored cloth.

Wayne: Is that spandex?
Fox: This is liquid Kevlar bi-weave supplemented with impact hardening plates.

So there you go... and that's as good as any explanation that Fox gave in Begins for the “it's not rubber” suit.

[The Dark Guybrush]

he'd most definitely have to go tagless. the tag would chafe.

[TheBatman072]

Anything can be explained in the "movie universe" even armored cloth.

Wayne: Is that spandex?
Fox: This is liquid Kevlar bi-weave supplemented with impact hardening plates.

So there you go... and that's as good as any explanation that Fox gave in Begins for the “it's not rubber” suit.


Umm, okay.

[bunk]

The point is, cloth does not look like the skin of a creature. Cloth does not look like the comics (no cloth whatsoever creates that kind of muscle definition). Black is a psychological colour associated with darkness, evil, misery and fear in western civilisation etc. (black ravens, black funeral dress). There were NO LENSES in the comic suit otherwise the Riddler in this shot would have worn lenses too.

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2004/jan14/riddler2.jpg

The lenses are a recent retcon to explain the white eyes, which have been there pretty much since the Bat's début and are nothing more than a relict of limited printing technologies back in the early days of comics (moire sauce) that survived into the modern era.

So, grey, while more comic accurate or even realistic doesn't contribute lick to the fear factor like black does (besides who wants a camouflage Batman in a movie anyhow, you're supposed to see him on screen). Cloth doesn't convey the "creature" factor it looks just like that, cloth. Black rubber combines the psychological effect of colours with a material that looks like second skin. Rubber is the way to go for Batman, Lenses are not necessary and only hinder the actor.

A combination lenses/color/material post. That's one way to heat up the thread.

[BatScot]

Black rubber combines the psychological effect of colours with a material that looks like second skin.That argument might have worked for B89 but the last thing the BB suit looks like is a second skin. In fact, the BB suit could hardly be less like a second skin... except when compared to the TDK suit that is.

[The Dark Guybrush]

should he wear 100% cotton or go with a 50/50 blend (polyester/cotton)?
OR
50/25/25 (cotton/nylon/polyester)?

each has its distinct advantages. SUBTLE but CRUCIAL.

[breyfogle_rules]

edit

[CaptainClown]

should he wear 100% cotton or go with a 50/50 blend (polyester/cotton)?
OR
50/25/25 (cotton/nylon/polyester)?

each has its distinct advantages. SUBTLE but CRUCIAL.
clearly nylon is the only fabric that can stop bullets

[SodaPop]

should he wear 100% cotton or go with a 50/50 blend (polyester/cotton)?
OR
50/25/25 (cotton/nylon/polyester)?

each has its distinct advantages. SUBTLE but CRUCIAL.
Cotton breathes easier, so a 100% cotton costume would work. But seriously the new suit is amazing.

[The Dark Guybrush]

but cotton clearly has a higher warmth holding threshold

[CaptainClown]

It does get cold in Gotham.

[SodaPop]

but cotton clearly has a higher warmth holding threshold
true. so a 50/50 mix it is.

[BatScot]

thin material letting him shrug off a bullet is just as unbelieveable to me. even if it's material with that spray on kevlar, the force of the bullet would still kill him without some serious padding or a trauma plate.Impact hardening plates; there that solves your problem. The science exists and could easily be applied in a fictional story... or can the "movie universe" only come with make believe ideas for rubber suits :rolleyes:

[CaptainClown]

after it is exposed to air it would harden and then his whole front plate would turn into B89 chest plate. Those suits really only have one time use and I think people at wayne tech might be suspicious that Mr. Wayne orders so many of these.

[BatScot]

A combination lenses/color/material post. That's one way to heat up the thread.Now all we need is for someone to say that it would look better on Keaton ;)

[teseract]

That argument might have worked for B89 but the last thing the BB suit looks like is a second skin. In fact, the BB suit could hardly be less like a second skin... except when compared to the TDK suit that is.

Depends, the TDK suit reminds me a bit of a gigeresque, biomechanical design with the lines and all, however it should look far more organic... hmmm, interesting idea actually, a Batsuit designed by H.R. Giger, it certainly would amp up the fright factor.

Generally speaking I agree though, the TDK suit isn't what I would call a "good" Batsuit. I still think the best one is the Panther suit of Batman Forever, sans Nipples and Kilmer, but with Keaton in it.

[The Dark Guybrush]

the funny thing about this is that- while your opinion counts- it will never be brought into physical fruition, nor captured on a single frame of hollywood owned celluloid.
the only thing to be reaped from this discussion, til the end of time, is an increase in post count.

[teseract]

Now all we need is for someone to say that it would look better on Keaton ;)

Done and done. Keaton is still umatched imho. ;)

[bunk]

Ah. Now it's complete.

[TheBatman072]

Done and done. Keaton is still umatched imho. ;)


Too bad he was probably the second worst Bruce Wayne/Batman live-action representation we've ever had.

First being Adam West(but I do so love the 60s Batman show).

[Luchastyle]

bale is better than keaton. keaton is a funny guy and a damn fine actor (jackie brown comes to mind), but bale IS bruce wayne. and bale IS batman. i know it's a matter of opinion, but c'mon. that's bale. sh-t, bob kane thought kilmer was better than keaton. i can't imagine what he'd think about bale. bale rocks.

[CaptainClown]

Keaton would have been a better Joker

[Luchastyle]

yeah you might be write cap'n. if he played it in any way like beetlejuice. (besides the voice of course.)

[CaptainClown]

I liked the voice, I think if he kept that it would have been an awesome Joker, but if you make a Heath Ledger messy Joker. But 89 was a neat clean Joker.

[BatScot]

after it is exposed to air it would harden and then his whole front plate would turn into B89 chest plate. Those suits really only have one time use...Well that's just patently incorrect. For example, d3o—under normal conditions the molecules within this material are weakly bound and can move past each with ease, making the material flexible. But the shock of sudden deformation causes the chemical bonds to strengthen and the moving molecules to lock, turning the material into a more solid, protective shield to protect you, returning to their original state when the impact is over.

... and I think people at wayne tech might be suspicious that Mr. Wayne orders so many of theseNot that it matters (see above) but I don't hear you complaining that Wayne only had one batsuit in Begins so why would he need more than one now?

[Luchastyle]

yeah. i like a messy joker. i know most people like to talk about how well-dressed he is and stuff, but you can be well-dressed and dirty. i think the way bale said it "punk rock anarchist" works well for joker. and then bermejo described his joker as dressing like tyler durden. i like that kind of joker. kind of sloppy, but still looking cool. an anarchist/terrorist is a good interpretation of the joker to me.

[DavidTyler]

With the material and decision to go matte-black, maybe. But previous batsuits were much darker, the 89 suit for example.

Plus you can alter any color during the post-production process. So to suggest it was completely out-of-their-hands to make the suit darker, if they wanted, is false.


The B89 suit may have been black but it LOOKED LIKE GREY RUBBER onscreen. There wasn't one shot I can recall where it looked really black.

Varying the materials would allow for the suit to be completely black but appear black and grey. Use that same rubber that they've used for years (including Begins - although it may be neoprene .. it still looks grey) for the bodysuit and use another material like the flocked silk of his cape or the plastic used in the Returns Catwoman suit for the cape, cowl, gloves, etc.

It would satisfy all parties.

[BatScot]

the funny thing about this is that- while your opinion counts- it will never be brought into physical fruition, nor captured on a single frame of hollywood owned celluloid. the only thing to be reaped from this discussion, til the end of time, is an increase in post count.That's just plain nonsense, but if that's the last stick you have to reach for... well, more the pity.

[BatScot]

Ah. Now it's complete.So is this your fault or my fault :woot:

[CaptainClown]

Looked it up your right it does go back to a liquid material, oh well I wasn't right about that. (shrug)

It still would look like this

http://express.howstuffworks.com/gif/bulletproof-3.jpghttp://www.firstshowing.net/img/darkknight-batsuit.jpg

[teseract]

Too bad he was probably the second worst Bruce Wayne/Batman live-action representation we've ever had.

First being Adam West(but I do so love the 60s Batman show).

Hmm, funny, Batman 89 is part of film courses here, Batman Begins is not.

[CaptainClown]

so? I did a report about Bubba Ho-tep in my film courses.

[The Dark Guybrush]

hmm. i don't see how you can confuse fact with nonsense, but whatever. and it's certainly not my last stick. you're proving my point right this second. i've just increased my post count by two, and not a single thing has happened to sway either of our opinions.

[Luchastyle]

Hmm, funny, Batman 89 is part of film courses here, Batman Begins is not.
they don't feel like rewriting the course and putting in another batmovie =D plus, depending on what you learn from each film, there's nothing you couldn't learn from begins, as far as production design and cinematography goes, that you can't learn from blade runner. and besides, ask critics and film buffs alike, 9 out of 10 will tell you that begins is the better film

[BatScot]

It still would look like thisAnd why would it have to look like that exactly?

[Luchastyle]

every thread here is turning into a good old fashioned nerd donnybrook. is it the lack of news? or is this just turning into any old message board? too many nerd fights. not enough intelligent arguments to back up either side. thus...nerd melee.

[CaptainClown]

because I said so (rolls eyes)

If you wanted to say something already exists having it on a t-shirt like material would look odd especially for me, that is when I am going to think he is going the route of Ironman, able to withstand bullets vs wearing armor that just really hurts.

[The Dark Guybrush]

nerd melee!! it's probably lack of news.
not trying to start an internet quarrel, just having a good-hearted debate.
no harm, no foul. TIS THE HYPE!

[Luchastyle]

yeah, i'm just sayin though. it's not like this everyday. but the last couple days, it's just like everyone is pissed and on edge. what's up with that?

[teseract]

so? I did a report about Bubba Ho-tep in my film courses.

Maybe but I don't think that Bubba Ho-tep is considered a “canonical classic". ;)

As for Bale, he may look the part but his performance left me unimpressed. He lacks the intensity and subtlety Keaton had. On the other hand, the whole Movie left me unimpressed, it was just okay, too pretentious for my taste, it lacked subtlety, was too in your face with its message. I prefer Burton's approach. The only thing I would keep is Oldman as Gordon, everything else I would gladly trade for the Burton movies... well, maybe I'd keep the tumbler too.

[CaptainClown]

I'm just in class bored as hell, gotta argue about something and the batsuit is the only one where I have a clear opinion on.

[SodaPop]

every thread here is turning into a good old fashioned nerd donnybrook. is it the lack of news? or is this just turning into any old message board? too many nerd fights. not enough intelligent arguments to back up either side. thus...nerd melee.
there's no fighting in the lounge. and yes the lack of news is killing everyone here, turning nerd against nerd, brother against brother. The WB just wants to watch us burn.

[CaptainClown]

DC civil war.

[teseract]

they don't feel like rewriting the course and putting in another batmovie =D plus, depending on what you learn from each film, there's nothing you couldn't learn from begins, as far as production design and cinematography goes, that you can't learn from blade runner. and besides, ask critics and film buffs alike, 9 out of 10 will tell you that begins is the better film

The those critics and movie buffs have no idea what they are talking about. I could tell you in a few words why the Burtons are better than Begins, ain't hard to do.

[CaptainClown]

Ok go tell us why it is better. I bet they are mostly opinions.

[Luchastyle]

Maybe but I don't think that Bubba Ho-tep is considered a “canonical classic". ;)

As for Bale, he may look the part but his performance left me unimpressed. He lacks the intensity and subtlety Keaton had. On the other hand, the whole Movie left me unimpressed, it was just okay, too pretentious for my taste, it lacked subtlety, was too in your face with its message. I prefer Burton's approach. The only thing I would keep is Oldman as Gordon, everything else I would gladly trade for the Burton movies... well, maybe I'd keep the tumbler too.
that's where you and i differ. while begins isn't subtle, i think it's well done. i think it is the best cinematic approach to developing batman and his universe. and i think it remaind faithful to the 60 years of history. whereas i find burton's to be pretentious. but i think everything burton does is pretentious. i don't see any subtley in his batfilms. i see very superficial comic book movies that look really nice. i do like b89 though. i dont like returns. but 89 was cool. so i think 89 is cool, but i think begins is a great film.

and keaton played it too comedically. i think bale played it more brooding, which i think wayne is. but the characters are all open to interpretation.

[The Dark Guybrush]

please, show us the ways of burton's superiority to nolan!!
make your 13th post one of ultimate enlightenment for us all.
:dry:

[BatScot]

hmm. i don't see how you can confuse fact with nonsense, but whatever. and it's certainly not my last stick. you're proving my point right this second. i've just increased my post count by two, and not a single thing has happened to sway either of our opinions.Well that's not quite true, one thing that has happened is that I've come to realize that your posts serve little function other than to raise your post count.

[CaptainClown]

It really all depends on taste, If BB was made at 89 they would be calling it a classic. 89 has years on BB, look at Pans Labryinth its too early to call it a classic.

[Luchastyle]

there's no fighting in the lounge. and yes the lack of news is killing everyone here, turning nerd against nerd, brother against brother. The WB just wants to watch us burn.
some comic book companies can't be bought, bullied or reasoned with. some comic book companies, just want to watch the world burn

[The Dark Guybrush]

Well that's not quite true, one thing that has happened is that I've come to realize that your posts serve little function other than to raise your post count.

shush! no one must know of my dreadful secret!!
:ninja: :whatever:

[Luchastyle]

well this nerd has shrimp to eat. so i shall return later...maybe. it'll be interesting to see teseract's almighty opinion on how burton's movie was better than begins. and then it'll be more interesting to see everyone poke holes in his flimsy argument. nooch.

[BatScot]

because I said soYes, well you also said that such materials "only have a one time use". Anyhoo, the funny thing about film costumes is that something can be made to look like anything... like rubber being armor, or an advanced 'cloth-like' material being armor. And at the end of the day, one explanation is as good as the other.

[CaptainClown]

Ya, I'm in class waiting for this

[CaptainClown]

Yes, well you also said that such materials "only have a one time use". Anyhoo, the funny thing about film costumes is that something can be made to look like anything... like rubber being armor, or an advanced 'cloth-like' material being armor. And at the end of the day, one explanation is as good as the other.
I like how you only quote a small segment to make you look right but sure why not I could do that also. I just choose not to. Again when it all comes down to it, is preference.

[teseract]

Ok go tell us why it is better. I bet they are mostly opinions.

I would but I don't think this thread is a good enviroment for it. However, if you want me to page you, no prob. ^^

[CaptainClown]

I would but I don't think this thread is a good enviroment for it. However, if you want me to page you, no prob. ^^

you can I will just post it on here. So your not going to explain your reasons? What a shame.

[MAKIEVELLI]

Well that's not quite true, one thing that has happened is that I've come to realize that your posts serve little function other than to raise your post count.

He has an average of less than 3 posts a day. I think if he was doing in just for the post count he could do a lot better.:whatever:

[teseract]

you can I will just post it on here. So your not going to explain your reasons? What a shame.
Oh, I can post it here I just didn't know if it is a good idea, considering that this is the Batsuit thread and me, explaining my reasoning why Burton's movie was better written would be kinda off topic but if no one objects I see no reason why not to post it.

[Saint]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/165/7/8/batman_concept_by_Bunk2.jpg
Anyone who says this wouldn't work is a compulsive liar, and should seek professional help. Moreover, the names of these individuals shall be added to the Universal Record of Individuals with No Credibility.

[The Dark Guybrush]

wouldn't work. is that corduroy?
dude needs a manicure :)

[Infinity9999x]

The those critics and movie buffs have no idea what they are talking about. I could tell you in a few words why the Burtons are better than Begins, ain't hard to do.


You can tell people why you think it's better, and there will be people who probably dislike the movie for some of the reasons you'll put forth. They'll disagree, say that Begins is better and put forth reasons. You'll probably dislike Begins for some of the very reasons they put forth, and it will go on in a circle until someone gets bored.

Bottom line, it's all a matter of opinion and taste.

[The Marvel]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/165/7/8/batman_concept_by_Bunk2.jpg
Anyone who says this wouldn't work is a compulsive liar, and should seek professional help.
I like that, that would be a cool batmovie costume. The hands need work though.

[The Dark Guybrush]

He has an average of less than 3 posts a day. I think if he was doing in just for the post count he could do a lot better.:whatever:

i've been practicing. i'll be real good at it soon. :ninja: :hyper:

[The Marvel]

Could the blue bat costume work? It haved to be a really really dull, washed out blue though. almost grayish blue.

[Ibn]

jesus. this drought has driven us back to our Neanderthal state, back to the bale vs. keaton arguement. We shouldn't be fighting each other. We should rally. And if that doesn't work...................... THEN WE ****IN RIOT!!!:cmad::cmad:

[The Dark Guybrush]

the blue suit looks good on paper, but translates poorly into live action use.

IMHO

[SodaPop]

i've been practicing. i'll be real good at it soon. :ninja: :hyper:
man. we need to learn to detect sarcasm better. and anyone who says 89 is better than BB i'd like to hear your opinion. and i'd also like to convert you to the good side of knowing BB is better than 89.

[teseract]

You can tell people why you think it's better, and there will be people who probably dislike the movie for some of the reasons you'll put forth. They'll disagree, say that Begins is better and put forth reasons. You'll probably dislike Begins for some of the very reasons they put forth, and it will go on in a circle until someone gets bored.

Bottom line, it's all a matter of opinion and taste.

Hmmm, depends, good writing is not as subjective as one might think. Good writing has a lot to do with applying the right "tools" so to speak. I recommend reading Sol Stein or Syd Fields on the topic.

[Saint]

It's funny how so many on these boards consider the cloth on the TDK costume to be "TOTaLlY AwESOMeS!!!11" but consider cloth on any other design to be the work of the devil. They should perhaps more critically.

[teseract]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/165/7/8/batman_concept_by_Bunk2.jpg
Anyone who says this wouldn't work is a compulsive liar, and should seek professional help. Moreover, the names of these individuals shall be added to the Universal Record of Individuals with No Credibility.

Quite honestly, doesn't look that different to the Begins or TDK suit imho. Less busy in design maybe but still looks like a hard armor and not like cloth.

[BatScot]

I like how you only quote a small segment to make you look right...Actually I chose it to make you look wrong... I was right.

[Saint]

Quite honestly, doesn't look that different to the Begins or TDK suit imho. Less busy in design maybe but still looks like a hard armor and not like cloth.

It looks hard? Those wrinkles at the joints seem hard to you? Moreover, it's not supposed to be cloth. It doesn't need to be cloth. It looks more like Batman (a hell of a lot more, actually), and that's pretty much the point.

[BatScot]

wouldn't work. is that corduroy?
dude needs a manicure :)

He has an average of less than 3 posts a day. I think if he was doing in just for the post count he could do a lot better.:whatever:A lot better, I agree.

[The Dark Guybrush]

it looks like batman's nose is running.
you know.. that drippy, clear kinda run.

[teseract]

It looks hard? Those wrinkles at the joints seem hard to you? Moreover, it's not supposed to be cloth. It doesn't need to be cloth. It looks more like Batman (a hell of a lot more, actually), and that's pretty much the point.

Looks to me like you did pretty much what the guys from TDK did, use a cloth basis with armor parts on top and yes, those parts like the chest, the legs, they look like armor to me, like a hard shell. As for it looking like Batman, hmmm, not like the one in the comics. The most comic accurate look still goes to the panther suit. If that one would have had blue boots, cape, cowl and gloves and a yellow belt, as well as a grey body suit you would have had an almost exact replica of the Neal Addams Batman look.

Oh, sorry, forgot, sans nipples of course. ^^

[Wams]

The new Bat suit is the Green Goblin suit painted black...:whatever:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/Wulverene/TDKSuit.jpg
Is like the Green Goblins...but not as good.
http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/266/spidey_goblin_aerobics.gif
http://www.thezreview.co.uk/images/goblin4.jpg

http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits/1b.jpg

http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits/4b.jpg
I can't wait till this trilogy is over.:dry:

[TheBatman072]

Could the blue bat costume work? It haved to be a really really dull, washed out blue though. almost grayish blue.


No. I've NEVER like blue in Batman's costume. Never.


And I've never seen a blue bat.

[TheBatman072]

The new Bat suit is the Green Goblin suit painted black...:whatever:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/Wulverene/TDKSuit.jpg
Is like the Green Goblins...but not as good.
http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/266/spidey_goblin_aerobics.gif
http://www.thezreview.co.uk/images/goblin4.jpg

http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits/1b.jpg

http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits/4b.jpg
I can't wait till this trilogy is over.:dry:


Yep. Just furthur shows that the TDK suit looks NOTHING like the Green Goblin suit.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Saint]

Looks to me like you did pretty much what the guys from TDK did
Not mine, actually. You'll notice my username is not "Bunk."

use a cloth basis with armor parts on top
And? I didn't say anything about taking a fundamentally different approach to the suit, did I? No. In fact, I didn't say anything, besides the fact that this more faithful Batman costume would work on film, despite the claims that Batman needs to be black and covered in piles of armour plating.

those parts like the chest, the legs, they look like armor to me, like a hard shell.
The legs have freaking wrinkles in them, and there's no indication the chest is made of different material than the limbs. Thicker, perhaps, and with a more defined sculpt, but otherwise there is no significant difference.

Similarly, there is no significant difference between the Begins torso and the Begins legs, besides the sculpt and thickness of the foam rubber used. The torso, though, looks like blocky, ugly, crap, while the legs looks much better.

That, of course, is my point: it doesn't matter if you use rubber or whatever. There are ways to design the costume that will make it look more or less like Batman. The TDK costume looks less, and the Bunk costume looks more.

As for it looking like Batman, hmmm, not like the one in the comics. The most comic accurate look still goes to the panther suit.
Haha! If you honestly believe the black nipplesuit looks more like Batman than this drawing, well... You're just too far gone for me to convince, I think.

[CaptainClown]

Actually I chose it to make you look wrong... I was right.

uh huh, I just don't like you, not that you have different opinions you come off as an @ss. Oh well this argument would reach no where.

[jimmy]

http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits/1b.jpg

http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits/4b.jpg
I can't wait till this trilogy is over.:dry:

That particular suit is from Dune. I think you simply copied someone else's post in this thread, and tried to sell the idea of the GG and Dune suit looking like TDK suit as your own. Nice try.

[CaptainClown]

certainly doesn't help they look really retro.
but ya Jimmy caught ya PAPA SPANK!

[jimmy]

Shh!! ;)

[TheBat812]

That particular suit is from Dune. I think you simply copied someone else's post in this thread, and tried to sell the idea of the GG and Dune suit looking like TDK suit as your own. Nice try.
Not only that but it's a completely ridiculous argument.:whatever:

[RogerW]

The term 'cloth suit' is an oversimplification.
The science behind the 'cloth suit' is actually far more advanced than anything that has been presented on screen as reasons for a rubber suit.
That science is based on existing technologies.
A traditional costume is realistic and feasible.
I'm aware of the types of "clothes" there are - by brother was a researcher in the chemical physics of carbon nanotubes.
These cloth armors at the moment protect from low to medium caliber bullets but other then a specific few which would be unfeasible do not proect from blunt force trauma and tears.

[Saint]

I'm aware of the types of "clothes" there are - by brother was a researcher in the chemical physics of carbon nanotubes.
These cloth armors at the moment protect from low to medium caliber bullets but other then a specific few which would be unfeasible do not proect from blunt force trauma and tears.

Which is why we call it "fiction." Nolan didn't mind a Magic Microwave Weapon, so stretching existing technologies shouldn't bother him, either.

[Luchastyle]

and the nerd battle rages on...

[jimmy]

Sait:- please post some of your Batsuit Photo manipulations. :)

[RogerW]

and the nerd battle rages on...
Clever response. You might be the first person to ever call a batman fan a nerd.

[Luchastyle]

Clever response. You might be the first person to ever call a batman fan a nerd.
mmm...your sarcasm is delicious. it's a reference to my earlier post from like 2 hours ago about how this whole board has turned into a nerd donnybrook of epic proportions. you don't have to be so offended. why so serious? (see what i did there?)

[Saint]

Sait:- please post some of your Batsuit Photo manipulations. :)

So be it. Admittedly, though, the fabric is not as tough-looking as I'd prefer, and I had to make a lot of ugly design comprimises thanks to the image I was working off of (Johnny Storm).

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1488/middelgraycb4.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5135/allblackzl7.jpg


And a drawing for good measure...
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4219/batsuitofdoomys0.jpg

[Luchastyle]

the drawing is pretty awesome

[luke1234]

So be it. Admittedly, though, the fabric is not as tough-looking as I'd prefer, and I had to make a lot of ugly design comprimises thanks to the image I was working off of (Johnny Storm).

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1488/middelgraycb4.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5135/allblackzl7.jpg


And a drawing for good measure...
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4219/batsuitofdoomys0.jpg
even though thats jonny storm still looks cool

[bunk]

Those are still pretty cool. I used the Johnny Storm suit for a Green Lantern manip a few days ago. Works well for GL.

[teseract]

Haha! If you honestly believe the black nipplesuit looks more like Batman than this drawing, well... You're just too far gone for me to convince, I think.

Actually, yes I do, the musculature looks exactly like the kind of defined musculature you see in the comics (the comics look like bodypainting, like someone put it once). The cowl, gloves boots even the scallops look almost exactly like a Neal Addams drawing. The belt also doesn't differentiate much from established Batman designs. The only thing that doesn't look like the comics are the nipples. Take them away and give the suit the "comic colors" and trunks and you got a 95% comic book accurate Batman

Now for the drawing. The armor doesn't look like the comics, it lacks the same musculature design. Legs design also doesn't look like the comics. The cod piece doesn't look like the comics the cloth under the armor parts (that striped design) doesn't look like the comics. The suit is nice but more comic accurate then the Panther Rubber suit? no, certainly not. It's as Comic accurate as the Begins suit, design wise and more comic accurate than the TDK suit but the 89 and Panther suit were much more comic accurate.

[CConn]

So be it. Admittedly, though, the fabric is not as tough-looking as I'd prefer, and I had to make a lot of ugly design comprimises thanks to the image I was working off of (Johnny Storm).

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1488/middelgraycb4.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5135/allblackzl7.jpg


And a drawing for good measure...
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4219/batsuitofdoomys0.jpg
No offense to your manips (they're nice), but I kinda always wondered what's the point of doing a more "comic-accurate" rubber suit if you're going to make it so it bares little resemblance to the suit from the comics?

[The Marvel]

So be it. Admittedly, though, the fabric is not as tough-looking as I'd prefer, and I had to make a lot of ugly design comprimises thanks to the image I was working off of (Johnny Storm).

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1488/middelgraycb4.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5135/allblackzl7.jpg


And a drawing for good measure...
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4219/batsuitofdoomys0.jpg
Cool. Can you manip it to make the very top one to have the ribbing part be black?

[teseract]

I still don' understand why people want cloth, cloth doesn't look like the comic without heavy touching up. No fabric gives the kind of muscle definition a comic drawing has. Oh, you can airbrush it sure, but what for, so it looks not as shiny as rubber? The rubber on the other hand does not only make it possible to replicate the exact look of muscle definition given in comics it also creates the sharp contrast between light and shadow that comic inking does. Cloth is too soft on this. Therefore, why cloth when the comics don't look like cloth to begin with?

Mobility? Batman managed to move pretty well in Forever. He was able to run, to jump, to do kicks, even do a sommersault. heck he could even turn his head.

So why cloth?

[Rorschach II]

I still don' understand why people want cloth,

I didn't understand it either, until I came to this realization: people generally don't want cloth, some crazy fanboys want cloth.

[RogerW]

I didn't understand it either, until I came to this realization: people generally don't want cloth, some crazy fanboys want cloth.
It's probably fair to say that most people who will actually see TDK have not read a comic or perhaps know it is even coming out yet.

[bunk]

Unless they saw Simpsons.

[teseract]

I didn't understand it either, until I came to this realization: people generally don't want cloth, some crazy fanboys want cloth.

Yeah, I mean really, can someone please show me the fabric that creates this kind of muscle definition and shadow contrast, I'm really curious.

http://www.dixonverse.net/images/gldbatbig.jpg

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/76/neal_adams.gif

http://www.virtualcomicartcon.com/0780.jpg

[Saint]

No offense to your manips (they're nice), but I kinda always wondered what's the point of doing a more "comic-accurate" rubber suit if you're going to make it so it bares little resemblance to the suit from the comics?

Well, the only significant difference between the suit you see there and the comic book suit is some fancy seamwork (the black one was done on request, and the collar was a compromise). Moreover, as I've said every time I post these, that detailing isn't the way I would like it--it's just the way it was on the Johnny Storm picture.

I may be a purist, but the truth is I'm only a moderate one. I do believe there are updates that--at the very least--look good and to not interfere with the classic design. I want the suit to look classic, but also like a functioning piece of equipment. Naturally, updating should be done subtly.

Following from that, I'm a huge fan of these images. The first one is from Lujho, the second is from Batsone. I don't know who did the third one. These are all pretty ideal Batcostumes, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and Bunk's, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/lujho/MyDesigns/batmantightscolour.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/nomad202/bbgrey.jpg

http://www.hethe.com/forums/batman.jpg

[bunk]

I've never seen those two from Lujho and Batsone. Really cool stuff.

[CConn]

Well, the only significant difference between the suit you see there and the comic book suit is some fancy seamwork (the black one was done on request, and the collar was a compromise). Moreover, as I've said every time I post these, that detailing isn't the way I would like it--it's just the way it was on the Johnny Storm picture.

I may be a purist, but the truth is I'm only a moderate one. I do believe there are updates that--at the very least--look good and to not interfere with the classic design. I want the suit to look classic, but also like a functioning piece of equipment. Naturally, updating should be done subtly.But the suit would be just as functional colored gray and missing the seams.

[CConn]

Yeah, I mean really, can someone please show me the fabric that creates this kind of muscle definition and shadow contrast, I'm really curious.

http://www.dixonverse.net/images/gldbatbig.jpg

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/76/neal_adams.gif

http://www.virtualcomicartcon.com/0780.jpg
In real life? It's called a muscle suit. It's been used on virtually every superhero costume made to date. Except for Batman...because he's under 100 lbs of solid rubber.

[RogerW]

In real life? It's called a muscle suit. It's been used on virtually every superhero costume made to date. Except for Batman...because he's under 100 lbs of solid rubber.
I've never seen a superhero costume show that much detail. No spiderman, superman, daredevil, etc costume to date has gotten even remotely that much muscle definition.
Maybe I'm wrong though, got a pic?

[CConn]

I've never seen a superhero costume show that much detail. No spiderman, superman, daredevil, etc costume to date has gotten even remotely that much muscle definition.
Maybe I'm wrong though, got a pic?
No, you're right, they don't show that much detail. Because comics are stylized. No one would want a real suit to look like that.

However, the muscle definition shown in most fabric-based superhero costumes would look perfectly fine on a life action fabric-based Batman costume.

[BatScot]

uh huh, I just don't like you, not that you have different opinions you come off as an @ss. Yeah, I get that quite a bit; it’s usually the last thing people say to me after their arguments have collapsed under the weight of a faulty premise... people just don’t seem to like when I point those errors out, but quite frankly—and at the risk of coming off as an @ss—I don't care whether you like me or not.

[CaptainClown]

well you certainly aren't getting a christmas card

[CConn]

And, honestly, having been someone who's played both sides of the fence; been the kind, quiet voice of moderation, and the bombastic prick who wants little more than to shove his opinion down others' throats and insult them while doing it, I find being a prick is MUCH more effective in both ending and winning disagreements.

That said, having known Batscot for a good 3 years now, I'm actually quite sure he's suffering from multiple psychological disorders.

[Saint]

But the suit would be just as functional colored gray and missing the seams.

But it would not look it. I said "look functional." Hence the addition of seams, textures, and more realistic belts, boots, and a harness.

In the comics, I prefer artists who draw the suit with wrinkles, seams (not decorative ones, though--one on the sides or up the middle should do it), texture, and realistic equipment (specifically, a belt that isn't lined with twenty identical pouches, but rather a variety of pouches, capsules, and so on). I like the suit to feel tough, and have some weight to it. I would love it if they started drawing Batman with harness straps attached to the briefs.

[CConn]

But it would not look it. I said "look functional." Hence the addition of seams, textures, and more realistic belts, boots, and a harness.

In the comics, I prefer artists who draw the suit with wrinkles, seams (not decorative ones, though--one on the sides or up the middle should do it), texture, and realistic equipment (specifically, a belt that isn't lined with twenty identical pouches, but rather a variety of pouches, capsules, and so on). I like the suit to feel tough, and have some weight to it. I would love it if they started drawing Batman with harness straps attached to the briefs.
Well, I believe reality is a wee-bit more important than perception, but whatever you say.

In any case, there'd be nothing wrong with realistic belts and boots and definitely some texture on the suit, but the seams do absolutely nothing, adding weird-ass harness straps just look stupid, and having a bat emblem that barely even looks like a bat isn't a great idea either.

[Saint]

Yeah, I get that quite a bit; it’s usually the last thing people say to me after their arguments have collapsed under the weight of a faulty premise... people just don’t seem to like when I point those errors out, but quite frankly—and at the risk of coming off as an @ss—I don't care whether you like me or not.

Yes, sadly for you, myself, and many other internet demagogues, jackassery and rudeness tend to spur stubborn response, even when it's obvious the argument has already been won. People like to fight back out of spite when the opponent is rude.

If only I would heed this teaching...

[Saint]

Well, I believe reality is a wee-bit more important than perception, but whatever you say.
In fiction, there is nothing more important than perception. Ever.

In any case, there'd be nothing wrong with realistic belts and boots and definitely some texture on the suit, but the seams do absolutely nothing, adding weird-ass harness straps just look stupid,
Clearly, I disagree.

and having a bat emblem that barely even looks like a bat isn't a great idea either.
You can take that one up with Alex Ross. And, for the record, it looks like a bat to me:
http://www.stephenrahn.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/WindowsLiveWriter/Robinwasunavailableforcomment_14599/070108-bat-sucker%5B14%5D.jpg
http://shopping.animazing.com/gallery/alex_ross/batman.jpg

[BatScot]

I'm aware of the types of "clothes" there are - by brother was a researcher in the chemical physics of carbon nanotubes.
These cloth armors at the moment protect from low to medium caliber bullets but other then a specific few which would be unfeasible do not proect from blunt force trauma and tears.Sigh...

IMPACT HARDENING MATERIAL IS REAL SCIENCE:


Anything can be explained in the "movie universe" (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12789212&postcount=13135)
The science exists and could easily be applied in a fictional story (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12789341&postcount=13147)
turning the material into a more solid, protective shield (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12789441&postcount=13159)

... that can be readily applied to a FICTIONAL costume as a solution for blunt force trauma.

[CConn]

In fiction, there is nothing more important than perception. Ever.Then we might as well stick to 100 lbs of rubber. It looks SO much more protective than cloth ever would.
Clearly, I disagree.Yes, but you're also wrong.
You can take that one up with Alex Ross.The letter's already been sent.

[Saint]

Then we might as well stick to 100 lbs of rubber. It looks SO much more protective than cloth ever would.
The extent to which you misunderstand is hilarious. I said perception is important--I did not say any particular perception is necessary (ie; the perception that Batman is covered in ballistic armour). If the perception is that Batman can dodge bullets and need no armour, so be it. It then becomes important that people buy that he can dodge bullets. If they don't buy it, it fails. Everything must seem realistic within the context of the existing universe, and that is a matter of perception. By the same token that TDK Batman wouldn't fit in "Sky Captain," Clayface doesn't fit in Nolan's films (Now, A Sky Captain-esque Batman film featuring Clayface? Drool).

Yes, but you're also wrong.
You did not spell "correct" properly. Just a heads up.

The letter's already been sent.
I made an edit to my previous post on the Alex Ross matter. Go look.

[BatScot]

And, honestly, having been someone who's played both sides of the fence; been the kind, quiet voice of moderation, and the bombastic prick who wants little more than to shove his opinion down others' throats and insult them while doing it, I find being a prick is MUCH more effective in both ending and winning disagreements.

That said, having known Batscot for a good 3 years now, I'm actually quite sure he's suffering from multiple psychological disorders.Playing on the prick side of the fence this evening are we... you dodgy little bugger.

[teseract]

No, you're right, they don't show that much detail. Because comics are stylized. No one would want a real suit to look like that.

However, the muscle definition shown in most fabric-based superhero costumes would look perfectly fine on a life action fabric-based Batman costume.

Why should no one want a real suit to look like that?

But why settle for something less? The rubber is capable of giving exactly the same definition as the comics... not only that, it also creates the same contrast.

[BatScot]

Yes, sadly for you, myself, and many other internet demagogues, jackassery and rudeness tend to spur stubborn response, even when it's obvious the argument has already been won. People like to fight back out of spite when the opponent is rudeAlas, such is our burden...

If only I would heed this teaching...... and our weakness.

[bunk]

I actually prefer it if he doesn't have the muscle look in the movies. I don't even really like it in the comics. It's the varying contrasts of his suit and the silhouette of the suit which I think is the most important.

[BatScot]

I actually prefer it if he doesn't have the muscle look in the movies. I don't even really like it in the comics. It's the varying contrasts of his suit and the silhouette of the suit which I think is the most important.:up:

[Saint]

:up:

Co-sign.

[Mr. Socko]

Hopefully a few years down the line, when we're at a new set of Batman films, the filmmakers may try something different with the suit other than the bulky all black rubber look. The TDK suit is fine for now, but I want something new, something better.

[jimmy]

Well, the only significant difference between the suit you see there and the comic book suit is some fancy seamwork (the black one was done on request, and the collar was a compromise). Moreover, as I've said every time I post these, that detailing isn't the way I would like it--it's just the way it was on the Johnny Storm picture.

I may be a purist, but the truth is I'm only a moderate one. I do believe there are updates that--at the very least--look good and to not interfere with the classic design. I want the suit to look classic, but also like a functioning piece of equipment. Naturally, updating should be done subtly.

Following from that, I'm a huge fan of these images. The first one is from Lujho, the second is from Batsone. I don't know who did the third one. These are all pretty ideal Batcostumes, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and Bunk's, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/lujho/MyDesigns/batmantightscolour.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/nomad202/bbgrey.jpg



HOLY BATBALLS, BATMAN!

Look at those Bat-garters!

Way to gayify this thread, dude. :dry:

[jimmy]

So be it. Admittedly, though, the fabric is not as tough-looking as I'd prefer, and I had to make a lot of ugly design comprimises thanks to the image I was working off of (Johnny Storm).


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5135/allblackzl7.jpg


Your cowl design is surprisingly close to the one in TDK. Funny how things work, huh?

[CConn]

Why should no one want a real suit to look like that?Because it's stylized to the point that it'd look ridiculous in real life.

Take Power Girl's boobs for example. They've gotta be a triple E, at least. Awesome in comics, but in the real world? The poor woman wouldn't be able to stand.
But why settle for something less?Oh, I get it now. You're trying to be cute. And failing at it rather horribly.
The rubber is capable of giving exactly the same definition as the comics... not only that, it also creates the same contrast.No, even the rubber suits usually don't have the muscle definition of some artists' interpretations (the Shumacher suits were pretty muscled...but they also had giant cod pieces and nipples, so...). Definitely not Bale's suits; they're more armor than actual fake muscle definition.

[Mr. Socko]

I like the Bale manip Jimmy quoted, but what's with the utility belt straps...

[jimmy]

Bat-Garters! :cmad:

[CaptainClown]

its like Rocky Horror live at gotham

[Mr. Socko]

Bat-Garters! :cmad:


And what purpose do they serve?

[jimmy]

They protect the Bat-Pods.

[CaptainClown]

hahahha

[Saint]

Your cowl design is surprisingly close to the one in TDK. Funny how things work, huh?
Yes; Lujho and I spoke at great length about the cowl design before the suit was revealed, and the method they went with seemed most plausible (though we both preferred a cape-attached collar, such as in my drawing posted earlier). The cowl is one of the three improvements made by the TDK suit (the other two being the fabric undersuit and the adjusted cape attachment).

[Saint]

And what purpose do they serve?

It's a harness. Anyone who has rock climbed can tell you a belt is simply not sufficient support. Batman could never do all the rappelling he does with his grapple attached to the belt, unless he had a harness for support. Since the trunks have no practical purpose, it makes sense to add harness straps and call them a harness. Though, that manip went a little overboard.

[teseract]

Because it's stylized to the point that it'd look ridiculous in real life.

Take Power Girl's boobs for example. They've gotta be a triple E, at least. Awesome in comics, but in the real world? The poor woman wouldn't be able to stand.
Oh, I get it now. You're trying to be cute. And failing at it rather horribly.
No, even the rubber suits usually don't have the muscle definition of some artists' interpretations (the Shumacher suits were pretty muscled...but they also had giant cod pieces and nipples, so...). Definitely not Bale's suits; they're more armor than actual fake muscle definition.
No it doesn't the B89 Batsuit doesn't look ridiculous the least, it looks like a Neal Addams comic come to life. My ideal Batman is close to that artists interpretation. Who cares about the real world? this is the movies.

It's not important what Schumacher did but what can be done with the material and it's FACT that a rubber suit could be created with EXACTLY the same muscle definition and contrast of light and shadow that the comics have. It can be even "functional" in the movie's context. After all, Forever showed kicks, sommersaults, jumps, him running and turning his head, what more proof does one need than what he sees with his own eyes?

As for Bale's armor, yes it doesn't look like the comics but not because it ain't cloth (which would also not look like the comics) but because they decided to go art deco with the chest plate. It looks good, but is even less comic accurate than the Schumacher suits were. Like I said, take away the nipples add the colors and bam, instant comic Batman.

Batman to me wears a suit, looking like a second skin with sharp muscle definition, a scalloped cape, fins on his gloves, a yellow belt and yes a yellow oval with a Bat. I don't care for functionality as long as the movie creates the adequate illusion I couldn't care less it the actor is sweating to death in real life.

The designs Saint showed are nice but that ain't the Batman I see when opening the comics. Now, don't mistake me I'm not a traditionalist. I have no problem getting rid of the grey and blue and making the suit all black or matte black but the shape of the costume should not be tampered with.

As good as the pics look, they stray to far from the comics imho.

[bunk]

They protect the Bat-Pods.

No, you're thinking of teh crotch.

[Mr. Socko]

I prefer the industrial chest plate look like in Begins and Returns as opposed to the muscle definition used in Forever and '89. I just think a rubber suit with a fake 6-pac looks flat out stupid. If Batman's going to wear a rubber armor suit, the chest plate should look like armor not a chiseled chest of an Olympian god. But that only applies to when he's wearing an all black rubber suit.

[CaptainClown]

isn't that the reason why Schumacher added nipples? He felt since it looked like roman generals body armor(with the muscles and all) he felt like he should just complete the look or something like that?

[CConn]

No it doesn't the B89 Batsuit doesn't look ridiculous the least, it looks like a Neal Addams comic come to life. My ideal Batman is close to that artists interpretation. Who cares about the real world? this is the movies.

It's not important what Schumacher did but what can be done with the material and it's FACT that a rubber suit could be created with EXACTLY the same muscle definition and contrast of light and shadow that the comics have. It can be even "functional" in the movie's context. After all, Forever showed kicks, sommersaults, jumps, him running and turning his head, what more proof does one need than what he sees with his own eyes?

As for Bale's armor, yes it doesn't look like the comics but not because it ain't cloth (which would also not look like the comics) but because they decided to go art deco with the chest plate. It looks good, but is even less comic accurate than the Schumacher suits were. Like I said, take away the nipples add the colors and bam, instant comic Batman.

Batman to me wears a suit, looking like a second skin with sharp muscle definition, a scalloped cape, fins on his gloves, a yellow belt and yes a yellow oval with a Bat. I don't care for functionality as long as the movie creates the adequate illusion I couldn't care less it the actor is sweating to death in real life.

The designs Saint showed are nice but that ain't the Batman I see when opening the comics. Now, don't mistake me I'm not a traditionalist. I have no problem getting rid of the grey and blue and making the suit all black or matte black but the shape of the costume should not be tampered with.

As good as the pics look, they stray to far from the comics imho.First off, I just want you to know I think you're an utter idiot.

That aside, your argument is a very good one...for the B89 suit. The B89 suit, however, happened 18 years ago. We've seen it, it's been done, and it's been done very well. That said, it's time for something new. And - while I don't like Saint's design - a fabric-based suit WOULD be something new, while being just as comic-accurate as the B89 suit was. Granted, different aspects of the suit would be accurate and non-accurate, but it would still be pretty damn close.

Lastly, it's probably better if you don't reply to me, as that will do little but make me think "man, this guy's a bigger ass than I thought."

[Wams]

That particular suit is from Dune. I think you simply copied someone else's post in this thread, and tried to sell the idea of the GG and Dune suit looking like TDK suit as your own. Nice try.


If you look at my original post the GG suit is in there...I also posted the Dune suits to show the other
influences....It's the same damn shop making the suits...
From Dune to the Keaton Batsuit to now.
I had enough.:cmad:

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/266/spidey_goblin_aerobics.gif

:whatever:

[jimmy]

If you look at my original post the GG suit is in there...I also posted the Dune suits to show the other
influences....It's the same damn shop making the suits...
From Dune to the Keaton Batsuit to now.
I had enough.:cmad:

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/266/spidey_goblin_aerobics.gif

:whatever:

If you've had enough, then why continue to post?

Tim Burton is over that way -->

:whatever:

[Starbird]

:whatever:

[Farren]

I prefer the industrial chest plate look like in Begins and Returns as opposed to the muscle definition used in Forever and '89. I just think a rubber suit with a fake 6-pac looks flat out stupid. If Batman's going to wear a rubber armor suit, the chest plate should look like armor not a chiseled chest of an Olympian god. But that only applies to when he's wearing an all black rubber suit.I agree.

[TheBatman072]

If you've had enough, then why continue to post?

Tim Burton is over that way -->

:whatever:


Heh. You're not wrong.

[Wams]

If you've had enough, then why continue to post?

Tim Burton is over that way -->

:whatever:

the "new suit" is from the same mind set as the Burton Batsuit..:dry:

[jimmy]

Right. Because Nolan's Batman uses his suit to strike dread into the hearts of his enemies, whereas Burton's Batman uses a suit because he's not pumped like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yeah, man, that's totally the same mind-set. :dry:

[CaptainClown]

Right. Because Nolan's Batman uses his suit to strike dread into the hearts of his enemies, whereas Burton's Batman uses a suit because he's not pumped like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yeah, man, that's totally the same mind-set. :dry:

Batman always has to show off his burly abs.

[TheBatman072]

Right. Because Nolan's Batman uses his suit to strike dread into the hearts of his enemies, whereas Burton's Batman uses a suit because he's not pumped like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yeah, man, that's totally the same mind-set. :dry:


High five for awesomeness and logic!

[Green Goblin 1964]

Batman always has to show off his burly abs.Double high five!

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/been-waiting-3-hourz-for-a-high-five.jpg

I'm just waiting for Wams to get banned LOL :oldrazz:

[TheWarMachine]

High five for awesomeness and logic!


You get a high five for having common sense? What do they teach in the schools nowadays.... :dry:

[TheBatman072]

You get a high five for having common sense? What do they teach in the schools nowadays.... :dry:


Common sense doesn't really exist anymore.


If you find it, you're lucky.

[TheWarMachine]

Common sense doesn't really exist anymore.


If you find it, you're lucky.


You bring up an interesting point.

[The Dark Guybrush]

i'm anxious to see the new suit's range of mobility, compared to the Begins suit..

[TheWarMachine]

i'm anxious to see the new suit's range of mobility, compared to the Begins suit..

Same. :woot:

[CaptainClown]

Double high five!

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/been-waiting-3-hourz-for-a-high-five.jpg

I'm just waiting for Wams to get banned LOL :oldrazz:

I couldn't find a cat doing a highfive back =( but (highfive)

[RogerW]

Was it ever said what the new feature on the cape is? That is something I've been curious about. I've also been wondering what it's going to be like when he shoots out the razors on his forearms.

[The Dark Guybrush]

i don't think they've said what the new cape feature is... i'm interested in knowing.

maybe something like in Batman Forever.. the flame shield thing?

[CaptainClown]

maybe its an extend O cape

[Luchastyle]

Double high five!

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/been-waiting-3-hourz-for-a-high-five.jpg

I'm just waiting for Wams to get banned LOL :oldrazz:
kittens are awesome =D

[TheBatman072]

Was it ever said what the new feature on the cape is? That is something I've been curious about. I've also been wondering what it's going to be like when he shoots out the razors on his forearms.


I really, REALLY don't think they shoot. I think the costumer was just joking. They might, MIGHT, detach.

[The Dark Guybrush]

retractability would be cool. kinda curious as to how they would shoot..

[Hobodeluxe]

I'm guessing the new feature of the cape will be a camouflage ability.
Maybe one that reflects light around it and appears to be invisible?

[The Dark Guybrush]

I'm guessing the new feature of the cape will be a camouflage ability.
Maybe one that reflects light around it and appears to be invisible?

sounds possible.. but kinda harry potter-ish...
it's probably something more practical.
but i can't figure it out.

[regwec]

If Batman has an "invisibility" cape, then we can finally put to rest all these silly comments about Nolan's outlook being "realistic" and other directors being "campy".

[metalhead971]

Yeah, an invisibility cape is a little too farfetched for my taste. I mean, Forever had the fireproof cape, which was cool, so it's gotta at least be as cool as that. Without taking it to ridiculous lengths like invisibility or spawn-type qualities or something, of course.

[teseract]

First off, I just want you to know I think you're an utter idiot.

That aside, your argument is a very good one...for the B89 suit. The B89 suit, however, happened 18 years ago. We've seen it, it's been done, and it's been done very well. That said, it's time for something new. And - while I don't like Saint's design - a fabric-based suit WOULD be something new, while being just as comic-accurate as the B89 suit was. Granted, different aspects of the suit would be accurate and non-accurate, but it would still be pretty damn close.

Lastly, it's probably better if you don't reply to me, as that will do little but make me think "man, this guy's a bigger ass than I thought."
Oh my, a faceless, voicless collection of letters on my screen considers me an idiot, I'm like so crushed right now. :woot:

My argument is not for the B89 suit (considering that I think that suit needed a lot of improvement) but for something that keeps with the shape of the comics. Fabric fails cause it can't reproduce the sharp muscle definition I consider essential. You can airbrush it, sure but even that isn't giving it the kind of sharpness I want. However, I was thinking, maybe something like the old Flash TV suit could be done. That one had a cloth covering, on the other hand it wouldn't look skin like anymore and like an ordinary costume. As for something new, new for new's sake? Nah, don't like that idea. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm realy not seeing it though, how would a cloth costume be more accurate? in Color? certainly not in design, so what would make it accurate?

Oh, and I want you to know, because you posted that little nugget of advice at the end made me reply again. I have this tendency to do the exact opposite of what I'm told to do, yes, I can be quite an ass if I want to:oldrazz:

[teseract]

I prefer the industrial chest plate look like in Begins and Returns as opposed to the muscle definition used in Forever and '89. I just think a rubber suit with a fake 6-pac looks flat out stupid. If Batman's going to wear a rubber armor suit, the chest plate should look like armor not a chiseled chest of an Olympian god. But that only applies to when he's wearing an all black rubber suit.

No prob, like I said, the Begins suit looks kinda cool, the TDK suit looks kinda cool too, The designs of Bunk looks interesting also. I just find it curious that people consider the rubber suits less comic accurate than a cloth costume while cloth isn't able to replicated the comic looks shape as good as the rubber does. What i want to know is, why cloth? What's so great about? Mobility? Batman has been quite mobile on screen since Forever, so that doesn't hold water. Believability? Heck, if I see Batman do stuff on screen it's enough, one doesn't need reassurance that the same could be done in real life as long as it ain't violating the laws of physics in too crass a fashion. So what is that strange fascination with cloth, it's an inferior Material to the rubber suits as far as comic accurancy, what's its merrit? Especially when the cloth suit desihns I see being lauded don't even look like the comics but more like swat gear with a cape and cowl attached.

[teseract]

If you look at my original post the GG suit is in there...I also posted the Dune suits to show the other
influences....It's the same damn shop making the suits...
From Dune to the Keaton Batsuit to now.
I had enough.:cmad:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much every creature suit is made out of a rubber like material. So if one wants him to look like a creature and not just like a man in a costume one wouldn't have much alternative than to go with a rubber type costume.

[Hobodeluxe]

Invisibility (camouflage) is less believable than the memory cloth glider cape?

I don't think so (http://www.gizmag.com/go/6357/)

another example
(http://www.i4u.com/article5404.html)

[bunk]

Invisibility (camouflage) is less believable than the memory cloth glider cape?

I don't think so (http://www.gizmag.com/go/6357/)

another example
(http://www.i4u.com/article5404.html)


Both are completely unbelievable imo. The invisibility cape would be outright laughable though.

[metalhead971]

Yes, it is less believable, because those two examples you gave are still in development stages, and one involves electromagnetic radiation. Memory cloth is just changing a cloak into a parachute, which makes more sense. I'm not saying they couldn't introduce the invisibility into the cloak, but it would seem a bit outlandish considering the only two people to use that kinda stuff so far have been Harry Potter (a wizard) and James Bond (an exaggerated superspy with an invisible car).

[Hobodeluxe]

Both are completely unbelievable imo. The invisibility cape would be outright laughable though.

not so much invisible as chameleon like properties. blend into the surroundings.

I find neither of them unbelievable.

[Hobodeluxe]

Yes, it is less believable, because those two examples you gave are still in development stages, and one involves electromagnetic radiation. Memory cloth is just changing a cloak into a parachute, which makes more sense. I'm not saying they couldn't introduce the invisibility into the cloak, but it would seem a bit outlandish considering the only two people to use that kinda stuff so far have been Harry Potter (a wizard) and James Bond (an exaggerated superspy with an invisible car).

Ok please link me to where I can buy some of that memory cloth then since something in the developmental stage is deemed unbelievable. I'll assume then that there is a working production version of the memory cloth available somewhere right?

[SantoAnderson]

I don't buy that his cape turns invisible. I'm reminded of an editorial done on BB when it first came out, and the writer said "This is not a Bond film. His watch doesn't conceal a rocket launcher. His glasses don't let him see through women's clothing. His car doesn't turn invisible." Besides an invisibility cape would totally go against his amazing stealthsman aspect of his persona. The only way I could see it work was if instead of making him absolutely invisible, it camoflauges him from certain points of view, but if you were to see him from the side he would be completely visible. I would take that as plausible with today's (or not too distant future's technology.)

[Hobodeluxe]

I don't buy that his cape turns invisible. I'm reminded of an editorial done on BB when it first came out, and the writer said "This is not a Bond film. His watch doesn't conceal a rocket launcher. His glasses don't let him see through women's clothing. His car doesn't turn invisible." Besides an invisibility cape would totally go against his amazing stealthsman aspect of his persona. The only way I could see it work was if instead of making him absolutely invisible, it camoflauges him from certain points of view, but if you were to see him from the side he would be completely visible. I would take that as plausible with today's (or not too distant future's technology.)

So you don't think it would be beneficial for him to have a cape that could change color? I disagree. Especially if he were hunted in the daylight. to be able to blend in against a red brick wall or a white snow drift or whatever could be very beneficial.
and for him to use this is no more of a slam on his stealth skills as is him not wearing a neon yellow suit to try to hide in the shadows.

[metalhead971]

I didn't say totally unbelievable, I said less believable. Memory cloth is also unbelievable, but it's less of a stretch than a cloth that turns the user invisible. Why the hell would Batman even need to be a ninja if he's got an invisible cloak? That totally undermines all the training aspects they showed us in Batman Begins. Memory cloth was used to explain how he gets around when he's not driving. It's a substitute for him swinging everywhere on grappling hooks (the way Spiderman swings around New York). An invisible cape takes away from Batman, imo.

[metalhead971]

Also, in case you've never read a single Batman comic, Batman has a no-daylight policy. It's just how he works.

[The Dark Guybrush]

well, let's take a step back and think about what practical, purposeful function could batman's cape serve that it already doesn't.

[The Dark Guybrush]

Also, in case you've never read a single Batman comic, Batman has a no-daylight policy. It's just how he works.

not true. ever read the long halloween?

[metalhead971]

I think it could serve several purposes it doesn't already serve. It could electrify people when they come in contact with it, at Batman's command. It could be fireproof (like in BF)...

hmm...now i'm stuck, lol....

[metalhead971]

Was he in daylight in TLH? I read that quite a while ago. Most recent comic I picked up was War Games, and that featured his first actual appearance in front of cameras, shattering his urban legend reputation.

[The Dark Guybrush]

whatever "function" they're adding to the cape is going to be practical.
maybe it doubles as a drag chute for the bat-pod?

[metalhead971]

That just gave me an awesome image of Batman riding the Bat-Pod at a group of thugs, and then opening his cape and floating into the air (similar to when he opens it in the train at the end of BB) and the Bat-Pod slamming into a group of guys while he throws Bat-stars at them from above.

Wow.

[Hobodeluxe]

That just gave me an awesome image of Batman riding the Bat-Pod at a group of thugs, and then opening his cape and floating into the air (similar to when he opens it in the train at the end of BB) and the Bat-Pod slamming into a group of guys while he throws Bat-stars at them from above.

Wow.

See now that's the way to think. :oldrazz:


and to the others..I've seen Batman operate during the day in a lot of comics.
I've even seen him use a suit that changed color to hide in the snow.
Not just his cape but his entire suit. It was a special suit though, not his everyday suit.

Of course he couldn't go around being all chameleon like all the time. It would require energy and run his battery down. :P
So he'd only use it when necessary.
And he'd have to remain still otherwise it wouldn't work very well.

[metalhead971]

Well, in that context, I could see a color-changing suit working. That would be badass, seeing Batman hiding out in the snow, his suit blended into the surroundings. That being said, I'd still like to see him electrify the **** out of someone with his cape. Lol.

[Crook]

whatever "function" they're adding to the cape is going to be practical.
maybe it doubles as a drag chute for the bat-pod?
There are many things that could be practical for the cape. Protection from fire & electricity, and camouflage are all beneficial. I wouldn't say any of the suggestions so far exceed that boundary.

That just gave me an awesome image of Batman riding the Bat-Pod at a group of thugs, and then opening his cape and floating into the air (similar to when he opens it in the train at the end of BB) and the Bat-Pod slamming into a group of guys while he throws Bat-stars at them from above.

Wow.
Yeeaaahhh.....don't really see Nolan going with any of that, considering his directing style. :o

[metalhead971]

Who cares? It would still be awesome.

[batsone]

Well, the only significant difference between the suit you see there and the comic book suit is some fancy seamwork (the black one was done on request, and the collar was a compromise). Moreover, as I've said every time I post these, that detailing isn't the way I would like it--it's just the way it was on the Johnny Storm picture.

I may be a purist, but the truth is I'm only a moderate one. I do believe there are updates that--at the very least--look good and to not interfere with the classic design. I want the suit to look classic, but also like a functioning piece of equipment. Naturally, updating should be done subtly.

Following from that, I'm a huge fan of these images. The first one is from Lujho, the second is from Batsone. I don't know who did the third one. These are all pretty ideal Batcostumes, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and Bunk's, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/lujho/MyDesigns/batmantightscolour.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/nomad202/bbgrey.jpg

http://www.hethe.com/forums/batman.jpg
the straps were not done by me. i dont mind people working after my stuff, but i dont really like this look. as someone said holy bat-garters
here is my manip.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/batsone/bbgrey.jpg

[Brian Braddock]

A cloak that becomes invisible?

Hell no!

As a Bond fan as well as a Batman fan - I've seen the damage having something turn invisible (the Aston Martin in DAD) can cause on a films plausability.

[jimmy]

I think someone has already developed a stealth jacket, so don't totally rule out of the idea of an invisible cape. It is, in fact, possible.

But I think even this is a little too far for Nolan.

In Batman Forever: all Batman does is tighten his cape around his body when he presses some button on his belt. I'm guessing that the cape is fire-proof already or something.

[CaptainClown]

They do have a stealth jacket but its more like advanced camo rather then being completely invisible.

[jimmy]

Completely invisible is a little too much. But something like a Metal Gear type stealth device might be cool.

[CaptainClown]

ya with the invisible jacket, you have to be in front of a backdrop thats motionless or else you could tell that something is there. Maybe for Batman Beyond but not the new series.

[blake]

Come on, there's really no point all in an invisible cape... it's Batman, he's supposed to hide in the shadows.

[jimmy]

I didn't know that. Like I said, it's a little too much, but It might be possible somewhere down the road.

[CaptainClown]

well we are stating that the technology exists but rther it being implemented is another story

[Hobodeluxe]

Why would Batman not avail himself of the latest technology?
All the arguments against this are weak. Other than simple "I don't like the idea" there seems to be no valid reason for not having a chameleon type cape.
It's like the silly lenses in the cowl argument.
Why not have them? The practical uses for them far outweigh the aesthetic reasons not to. Hell they don't have to be employed all the time. Just for specific instances.
To say that one who operates in the dark couldn't use night vision is silly.
To say that one who fights crime couldn't use eye protection from an attacker who might think to use something to disable his opponent is silly.
Batman isn't the only person who might use gas,smoke,flashbangs etc.
Makes sense to me that if he uses them he might think to protect himself against them.

I don't see what the big deal is.
Here's a guy with all these resources at his disposal and to think he wouldn't use them is silly.
My ideal of batman's lenses go as far as having a HUD display for targeting the grapple and other projectiles. (homing devices,throwing stars etc)
underwater visibility,high wind speed visibility,low light and intense light visibility,protection from irritants,video capturing,telephoto etc..

As far as the cape goes it protects from bullets and other projectiles,acids,fire,has chameleon like stealth capabilities and with that memory cloth could actually form a protective bubble around him in case he was surrounded he could employ it to push the attackers away for a second to regain his composure. Imagine him wrapping it around himself and hitting the juice..out pops what looks like an umbrella shaped circle with pointy tips.
certainly good enough to buy him a few precious second.

[BatScot]

Right. Because Nolan's Batman uses his suit to strike dread into the hearts of his enemies, whereas Burton's Batman uses a suit because he's not pumped like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yeah, man, that's totally the same mind-set. :dry:

High five for awesomeness and logic!

You get a high five for having common sense? What do they teach in the schools nowadays.... :dry:

Common sense doesn't really exist anymore. If you find it, you're lucky.

You bring up an interesting point.Not that interesting… while it’s true that Burton’s reasoning for the suit took Keaton’s physique into consideration, Burton's Batman ALSO uses his suit to ‘strike dread into the hearts of his enemies’. In fact, Burton’s Batman—for the very fact that he lacks the physicality of Bale—relies on the intimidation effect of the suit even more so than Nolan’s Batman.

So the ‘common sense’ answer—because it is THE primary reason why the character dresses as a bat in the first place—is that BOTH Burton’s and Nolan’s Batman use the suit in order to intimidate the opposition. That Burton’s Batman needs the help more than Nolan’s does not negate the fact that essentially both approaches are of ‘the same mindset’.

Awesomeness and logic. High Five!

[MAKIEVELLI]

First off, I just want you to know I think you're an utter idiot.

That aside, your argument is a very good one...for the B89 suit. The B89 suit, however, happened 18 years ago. We've seen it, it's been done, and it's been done very well. That said, it's time for something new. And - while I don't like Saint's design - a fabric-based suit WOULD be something new, while being just as comic-accurate as the B89 suit was. Granted, different aspects of the suit would be accurate and non-accurate, but it would still be pretty damn close.

Lastly, it's probably better if you don't reply to me, as that will do little but make me think "man, this guy's a bigger ass than I thought."

The narcissism on this board is astounding. What makes you think because you, a faceless number of words on his computer, really gives a **** how big of an ass you think he is. If you don't want him to reply you, don't start some stupid **** like this.

[blake]

Why would Batman not avail himself of the latest technology?
Yes, he should propably get an armour that enables him to fly and have repulsor gloves :whatever:

[MAKIEVELLI]

Yes, he should propably get an armour that enables him to fly and have repulsor gloves :whatever:

I know you're trying to be sarcastic but...........that was just pointless.

[teseract]

The narcissism on this board is astounding. What makes you think because you, a faceless number of words on his computer, really gives a **** how big of an ass you think he is. If you don't want him to reply you, don't start some stupid **** like this.
Yes, exactly, I was laughing pretty hard when I read it. I have been insulted by a couple of 1's and 0's Oh my god, my world is crushed. *lol* :woot:

[CaptainClown]

Only argument I could see is that Wayne Corp. didn't develop the technology. So he would have to get it from another group and they probably aren't willing to sell no matter what the price.

[jimmy]

So the ‘common sense’ answer—because it is THE primary reason why the character dresses as a bat in the first place—is that BOTH Burton’s and Nolan’s Batman use the suit in order to intimidate the opposition. That Burton’s Batman needs the help more than Nolan’s does not negate the fact that essentially both approaches are of ‘the same mindset’.

Awesomeness and logic. High Five!

Too bad Burton doesn't agree. :csad::up:

[BatScot]

Too bad Burton doesn't agree. :csad::up:Well, lets look at what Tim Burton's has to say about that:

"Why do you dress up as a bat? You’re trying to scare criminals, you’re putting on a show, you are trying to scare and intimidate people."
Burton on Burton (revised edition) faber and faber 2000

In other words:

Burton’s and Nolan’s Batman use the suit in order to intimidate the opposition.

Burton agrees. Period.

[Saint]

Well, lets look at what Tim Burton's has to say about that:

"Why do you dress up as a bat? You’re trying to scare criminals, you’re putting on a show, you are trying to scare and intimidate people."
Burton on Burton (revised edition) faber and faber 2000

In other words:



Burton agrees. Period.

http://www.brad-johnson.com/images/forum/owned3.jpg

On an unrelated note, I'm amused that stretching existing armour technologies to make a more faithful suit is said to be "NOT TEH RELISTICS!" but a camouflage cape is perfectly fine.

[jimmy]

Well, lets look at what Tim Burton's has to say about that:

"Why do you dress up as a bat? You’re trying to scare criminals, you’re putting on a show, you are trying to scare and intimidate people."
Burton on Burton (revised edition) faber and faber 2000

In other words:



Burton agrees. Period.

WTG? That's not what he said in another interview. There's another interview on youtube where he says that, the only reason Batman wears a suit is because he isn't pumped.

And kick back with the owned picture, Saint. You have a fetish for spandex.

[CConn]

The narcissism on this board is astounding. What makes you think because you, a faceless number of words on his computer, really gives a **** how big of an ass you think he is. If you don't want him to reply you, don't start some stupid **** like this.Maybe I do want him to reply. Maybe I'm starting stupid **** on purpose for a laugh. Y'know, generally, if something is too ridiculous to true, it's probably not true. I'm having fun. I'm having a ball. And, truth be told, the enjoyment is heightened by the knowledge that there's dudes like you who get all bent out of shape over it, and actually are stupid enough to think I'm at all serious.

[CConn]

Oh my, a faceless, voicless collection of letters on my screen considers me an idiot, I'm like so crushed right now. :woot:Would you care if I came to your house and called you an idiot?

My argument is not for the B89 suit (considering that I think that suit needed a lot of improvement) but for something that keeps with the shape of the comics. Fabric fails cause it can't reproduce the sharp muscle definition I consider essential. You can airbrush it, sure but even that isn't giving it the kind of sharpness I want. However, I was thinking, maybe something like the old Flash TV suit could be done. That one had a cloth covering, on the other hand it wouldn't look skin like anymore and like an ordinary costume.Technically, speaking, a fake muscle suit under fabric could be just as beefy as the rubber suits and look exactly like the comic Batman's physique. It's completely possible to make to make something like that exactly. Has it be done yet? No. Why? Because, I think most people - including myself - think the level of muscle definition looks ridiculous. I'm not saying that's true. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done because of it that (God knows enough people think a great character like Robin is ridiculous), but that's just why it probably hasn't been done outside of the TV Flash costume.
As for something new, new for new's sake? Nah, don't like that idea. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.And that's the mindset of an ignorance. You'd rather ignore everything you haven't seen rather than embrace it - which is very foolish. Y'know, I'm open to almost anything, I'm open to trying almost anything as long as it's of high quality. While I have my preferences, while I have my favorites, I'd rather explore the whole universe of Batman, really, than just stick to one rigid interpretation, one rigid costume design.

And I'm not saying it's foolish just be a jerk off. Psychologically, we're supposed to be drawn to new things. New things, and styles, and environments, and whatnot all stimulates brain function much more than the same old same old. It's not just new for new's sake, it's new so you can - hopefully - learn, experience, something more, something different. That may seem so...deep it's ridiculous to you, but I find it to be a very beautiful thing. A very human thing. To just soak up even the most subtle changes (especially in the arts), and just expand your knowledge and reality of something. Y'know, I'm not just a Batman fan, I love film. I love art design, and costumes, and sets, and all of it. And I - at least - am always hungry for more of it. Not just the same over and over again.

That all said, I'd be perfectly happy with the original suit. I loved the B89 It's still my favorite live action batsuit. The problem is, it's not the original suit anymore. It has changed. Dramatically. Just from B89 to BR it changed (and not for the better, IMO). So, even if, okay, change is bad, why change the B89 suit at all? That worked fantastically. All that needed to be done was updating on the materials. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the actual design, so why change it? But they changed it anyway. Because change is inevitable. They'll always be something new. Usually just for "new's sake".

The thing I find interesting about a fabric suit is that it could be so different from the whole rubber thing, that it wouldn't ever be just a lame redesign of an already perfectly done costume. There was no need for the armored abs in the BR. No need for the nipples and black bat emblem in the B&R suit, yet those changes happened. Whereas, with a fabric suit (even with TDK's suit, actually), it's such a drastic change from the original B89 design, that you're - I'm not, at least - left thinking "oh why did they make this little change, and that little change." No, the entire philosophy of the suit's design is changed. You may not like it as much as the old one, but it's not just a sub-par rip off. It's, at least, an attempt at something original. That, IMO, makes it better.

I'm realy not seeing it though, how would a cloth costume be more accurate? in Color? certainly not in design, so what would make it accurate?In color, materials, and DEFINITELY in design.

In the comics, Batman's suit is 99% of the time fabric, and 90% of the time grey and black/blue. A suit being fabric makes it more accurate than the B89 suit, a suit being gray makes it more accurate than a B89 suit, and, as I said a few paragraphs above, if the muscle definition is your main focus, even that can be replicated just as well - if not moreso - than the rubber suit did. So, with the muscle definition, material, color and design all exactly like the comics, there'd really be no area of the rubber suit that would be more comic accurate.
Oh, and I want you to know, because you posted that little nugget of advice at the end made me reply again. I have this tendency to do the exact opposite of what I'm told to do, yes, I can be quite an ass if I want to:oldrazz:Well, I just did my best to give you a perfectly personable, reasonable reply (as obvious, I am fully capable of doing so when I'm so inclined). But I know I'll get absolutely nothing from it. I hate to break it to you, but unless you've been trying to be an ass from your first post, you're quite an ass even when you don't want to be.

[Saint]

WTG? That's not what he said in another interview. There's another interview on youtube where he says that, the only reason Batman wears a suit is because he isn't pumped.
What he said--frequently--was that the actor playing Batman did not need to be pumped, because he had the suit for that. He never said the only function of the suit was to look pumped.

And kick back with the owned picture, Saint. You have a fetish for spandex.
Haha. This would've have almost been clever if I had ever, in the history of time, advocated the use of spandex, or anything even remotely similar to spandex. Actually, that's a lie: it wouldn't have been clever then, either.

[jimmy]

So let's be friends. I have many recipes. We can share them.

[Hobodeluxe]

[quote=Saint On an unrelated note, I'm amused that stretching existing armour technologies to make a more faithful suit is said to be "NOT TEH RELISTICS!" but a camouflage cape is perfectly fine.[/quote]

Who said that? All I've ever complained about was the design of the legs being busy looking and I had wished the suit had been more grey/black with a bat emblem that contrasted and stood out a little more.

I'm all for neat gizmos and better armor as long as he doesn't look like it would hurt his maneuverability. There's a trade off. Batman has always came down on the flexibility and maneuverability side and not the heavy ,cumbersome tank.
Otherwise he's just Iron Man with a cape and cowl.

[teseract]

Would you care if I came to your house and called you an idiot?

You can try, but I doubt you would want to spend approximately 1000$ just to call me an idiot. Besides, It wouldn't make much of a difference cause I would only be laughing in your face then instead of laughing in front of my screen.:woot:

Technically, speaking, a fake muscle suit under fabric could be just as beefy as the rubber suits and look exactly like the comic Batman's physique. It's completely possible to make to make something like that exactly. Has it be done yet? No. Why? Because, I think most people - including myself - think the level of muscle definition looks ridiculous. I'm not saying that's true. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done because of it that (God knows enough people think a great character like Robin is ridiculous), but that's just why it probably hasn't been done outside of the TV Flash costume.

True, it can be done but the costume would loose the creature look and that's imho a major part of its function. It would just look like cloth, like a costume not like second skin.

And that's the mindset of an ignorance. You'd rather ignore everything you haven't seen rather than embrace it - which is very foolish. Y'know, I'm open to almost anything, I'm open to trying almost anything as long as it's of high quality. While I have my preferences, while I have my favorites, I'd rather explore the whole universe of Batman, really, than just stick to one rigid interpretation, one rigid costume design.

I'm all for inovation but not when the inovation makes things worse, or in the case of Bats, strays even further from the books. I don't mind going forward and trying something new but only if that "new" isn't a step backwards and I think fabric is a step backwards because of all the reasons I have cited. As for "exploring" the whole Universe of Batman, No objection but in that whole Universe there has always been one constant and that's the way the costume is designed. It's always sharp muscles, yellow belt, scalloped cape, pointy boots, fins on the gloves, a smooth mask with two pointy ears and a symbol (I prefer the oval by the way, it's classical to me and simply looks better imho.)

That all said, I'd be perfectly happy with the original suit. I loved the B89 It's still my favorite live action batsuit. The problem is, it's not the original suit anymore. It has changed. Dramatically. Just from B89 to BR it changed (and not for the better, IMO). So, even if, okay, change is bad, why change the B89 suit at all? That worked fantastically. All that needed to be done was updating on the materials. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the actual design, so why change it? But they changed it anyway. Because change is inevitable. They'll always be something new. Usually just for "new's sake".

I agree, the B89 suit was great, the Panther suit, however, was better (if one ignores the nipples and codpiece). The only changes that should have been made to the B89 suit were, making it less bulky, a better muscle cut and design and less thickness to the rubber. As for the cowl, I like the cowl of the Returns suit best out of the three suits. My ideal suit would be the Panther without the nips and a less busy muscle design with the Returns cowl and maybe the Returns belt... allthough I somehow like the capsule belt of the Panther. Oh and of course no Kilmer... instead I would prefer Keaton back in it. ^^

In color, materials, and DEFINITELY in design.

In the comics, Batman's suit is 99% of the time fabric, and 90% of the time grey and black/blue. A suit being fabric makes it more accurate than the B89 suit, a suit being gray makes it more accurate than a B89 suit, and, as I said a few paragraphs above, if the muscle definition is your main focus, even that can be replicated just as well - if not moreso - than the rubber suit did. So, with the muscle definition, material, color and design all exactly like the comics, there'd really be no area of the rubber suit that would be more comic accurate.
Well, I just did my best to give you a perfectly personable, reasonable reply (as obvious, I am fully capable of doing so when I'm so inclined). But I know I'll get absolutely nothing from it. I hate to break it to you, but unless you've been trying to be an ass from your first post, you're quite an ass even when you don't want to be.

I don't see a fabric suit when I open my comics. I see a material that creates shape and definition like no fabric could. What makes you think it is fabric if it doesn't look like fabric?

My focus in terms of the suit are many fold. I want the muscle definition, I want the optical contrast, created by the inking in the books (sharp, black shadows) and I want it to feel like a creature of the night, while retaining the Batman shape (mouth opening, belt, cowl, fins etc.). Rubber is smooth, manages the sharp definition and contrast and looks like the skin of a creature. Its practicability is also no longer an issue in the movies. Fabric on the other hand falls flat, at least in the second skin department and in terms of the sharp muscle contrast I like. I have seen fabric costumes, some even going the so much touted Spider-Man route and I still think they don't cut it. The muscle definition in most looks flat when airbrushed on no roundness, no shape. It's sub-par if compared to the rubber. I'm all for forward stepping but I'm not for taking steps backwards.

As for the grey color, I never thought the color is what is iconic about Batman, it's the shape of the costume that defines the character. All black, dark blue, It wouldn't really matter as long as it is a dark color. If the shape and overal design is kept intact it would still be Batman. That aside Black is simply the better choice 'cause of its psychological implications. I have never seen a grey Vampire for example. Black Cats, Ravens, the Black Death, everytime something really terrorizes the western conciousness it's always associated with the color black. Therefore, an all black Batman is much more feasable than a grey Batman. Grey looks not only dull, it also doesn't embody the image Batman wishes to create, like black does.

As for your comments of me being an ass. I'll say it again, a collection of letters on my screen insulted me, I'm like so crushed right now.

[Batman18]

No it doesn't the B89 Batsuit doesn't look ridiculous the least, it looks like a Neal Addams comic come to life. My ideal Batman is close to that artists interpretation. Who cares about the real world? this is the movies.

There's been alot of bs in this thread but dammit to hell if the above quoted statment is not blasphemy. Neal Adams??? You can't be serious. Neal Adams father of the modern Batman look? You think Keaton in that suit looks like a Neal Adams drawing of Batman? Stab my eyes!!! Keaton could barley move in that thing. Neal Adams brought a modern, athletic, realistic look to Batman in the '70 that had never been seen before.

We loved B89 back then because all we had to work with was Adam West up until then. But don't sit here and tell me 18 years later it aged well because it hasn't.

[Chucktallica101]

Stab my eyes!!!...We loved B89 back then because all we had to work with was Adam West up until then....

That'll keep me laughing for a week.

I also agree with everything you stated.

[MAKIEVELLI]

Maybe I do want him to reply. Maybe I'm starting stupid **** on purpose for a laugh. Y'know, generally, if something is too ridiculous to true, it's probably not true. I'm having fun. I'm having a ball. And, truth be told, the enjoyment is heightened by the knowledge that there's dudes like you who get all bent out of shape over it, and actually are stupid enough to think I'm at all serious.

Well in that case: LOL, TEHEEOL, LMFAO, HI-FRICKIN'-LARIOUS!

:dry: Sorry, it just wasn't funny.

[MAKIEVELLI]

And that's the mindset of an ignorance. You'd rather ignore everything you haven't seen rather than embrace it - which is very foolish. Y'know, I'm open to almost anything, I'm open to trying almost anything as long as it's of high quality. While I have my preferences, while I have my favorites, I'd rather explore the whole universe of Batman, really, than just stick to one rigid interpretation, one rigid costume design.

If you read the post you quoted you'll see he wrote "New for new's sake", which is quite different from simply new.

[El Payaso]

WTG? That's not what he said in another interview. There's another interview on youtube where he says that, the only reason Batman wears a suit is because he isn't pumped.

You're free to post the link :)

There's been alot of bs in this thread but dammit to hell if the above quoted statment is not blasphemy. Neal Adams??? You can't be serious. Neal Adams father of the modern Batman look? You think Keaton in that suit looks like a Neal Adams drawing of Batman? Stab my eyes!!! Keaton could barley move in that thing. Neal Adams brought a modern, athletic, realistic look to Batman in the '70 that had never been seen before.

I think he said the suit looked like Neal Adams - which i agree with - not that the guy inside could move like in spandex.