Batsuit Discussion Thread

[teseract]

There's been alot of bs in this thread but dammit to hell if the above quoted statment is not blasphemy. Neal Adams??? You can't be serious. Neal Adams father of the modern Batman look? You think Keaton in that suit looks like a Neal Adams drawing of Batman? Stab my eyes!!! Keaton could barley move in that thing. Neal Adams brought a modern, athletic, realistic look to Batman in the '70 that had never been seen before.

We loved B89 back then because all we had to work with was Adam West up until then. But don't sit here and tell me 18 years later it aged well because it hasn't.

Yes, it looks almost like a Neal Adams drawing. Take one of his work and color it Black and you got almost the same look as the B89 or Panther suit*sans nipples of course*

The B89 suit had the same muscle dfinition, the same sharpeness and the same design of the various elements allthough with a little variation. (the ornament belt buckle, the boot texture and the emblem attached to the cowl scallops) Other than that it keeps exactly the shape Neal Adams had created. What is this friggin fascination with movement? I'm not talking about movement I'm talking about looks, as in it LOOKED like a Neal Adams drawing not it moved like a Neal Adams drawing. But that isn't imprtant anyhow because as Batman Forever and even Begins aptly demonstrated, the rubber does not hinder movability anymore.

Well B89 is a classic and still looks as good as always. Begins, while nice just doesn't come close to it for me. Burton did better. maybe if Nolan would have put Bale in a suit that LOOKS more like the B89 or Panther suit, used the excellent Anton Furst design of Gothham, instead of downtown Chicago and maybe if Bale would have shown the acting chops Keaton had in the role, then maybe I would think differently. Oh and I don't know why you loved B89, I did because it's a excellent film, with great actors and a wonderfull story, just like Returns. I have yet to see something similar from Nolan.

[Lobster Charlie]

It's so weird, I've heard two complaints

1) The Batman '89 suit is better than the Begins suit

2) The Begins' suit is too much like all the other suits

[El Payaso]

^ 3) Your av rocks too much.

[Lobster Charlie]

Thanks! :D

Yours has always cracked me up. Were you the guy who did the Paris Hilton manip with Joker laughing at her in the reflection of the window?

[jimmy]

You're free to post the link :)


http://batman-on-film.com/batman-89_UK_documentary.html

It's in one of the videos on that page. I don't remember which one, and I don't feel like watching them all over again.

[El Payaso]

Thanks! :D

Yours has always cracked me up. Were you the guy who did the Paris Hilton manip with Joker laughing at her in the reflection of the window?

I don't think so. I wish I was.

http://batman-on-film.com/batman-89_UK_documentary.html

It's in one of the videos on that page. I don't remember which one, and I don't feel like watching them all over again.

lol, me neither.

[Batman18]

Yes, it looks almost like a Neal Adams drawing. Take one of his work and color it Black and you got almost the same look as the B89 or Panther suit*sans nipples of course*

The B89 suit had the same muscle dfinition, the same sharpeness and the same design of the various elements allthough with a little variation. (the ornament belt buckle, the boot texture and the emblem attached to the cowl scallops) Other than that it keeps exactly the shape Neal Adams had created. What is this friggin fascination with movement? I'm not talking about movement I'm talking about looks, as in it LOOKED like a Neal Adams drawing not it moved like a Neal Adams drawing. But that isn't imprtant anyhow because as Batman Forever and even Begins aptly demonstrated, the rubber does not hinder movability anymore.

Well B89 is a classic and still looks as good as always. Begins, while nice just doesn't come close to it for me. Burton did better. maybe if Nolan would have put Bale in a suit that LOOKS more like the B89 or Panther suit, used the excellent Anton Furst design of Gothham, instead of downtown Chicago and maybe if Bale would have shown the acting chops Keaton had in the role, then maybe I would think differently. Oh and I don't know why you loved B89, I did because it's a excellent film, with great actors and a wonderfull story, just like Returns. I have yet to see something similar from Nolan.

Well if that's the case you could mention any artist. Why not Jim Aparo or Marshall Rogers? To me it LOOKED like Keaton was stuck in the suit & from what I've heard he was...LOL It was a very stiff looking suit. There is no facination with movement I just like the people in my superhero movies to actually be able to move. I just don't understand you because as with any Batman comic in continuity his mask and cape are attached to each other, the oval Bat symbol was separate from both (maybe they were close but still separate) & that was a totally different Bat symbol. They marketed the damn movie with the classic oval Bat symbol but the suit had a different one with feet on it.

Then you compare Bale & Keaton...LOL Sticking with the whole "Look" of things Keaton didn't look like any Bruce Wayne I've ever seen not to mention his acting skills. "He's out there and I've got work to do"...LOL you better work out first buddy instead of hanging upside down. :)

I loved B89 during it's time and I think it still a good film. However I don't think it aged well unlike Superman and Superman 2 which are outstanding to this day. The rest of the Bat films are hard to watch imo after watching Begins but this is not the thread for that argument..

[Lobster Charlie]

The Batman 89 suit looks great when he's standing still. The Batman Begins suit looks great when he's moving. Just my two cents. :)

[BatScot]

I have never seen a grey Vampire for example.Interesting that you should choose a ‘vampire’ as your first point of reference for when one thinks of Batman and vampires one cannot help but think of vampire bats. However, the Common Vampire BAT has grayish-brown fur, not black. In fact, there are no black vampire bats.

Black Cats, Ravens, the Black Death, everytime something really terrorizes the western conciousness it's always associated with the color black.Of course, none of these things represents Batman’s totem image—a BAT—and bats are never uniformly black and even those that appear to be black are in fact only nearly black, i.e. gray. And that bats are associated with the night has more to do with the fact that most bat species are nocturnal, not their coloring, which, in any case, is likely to brown, red, or GRAY.

Therefore, an all black Batman is much more feasable than a grey Batman. It goes without question that bats are shades of gray—which is actually a better psychological representation of Batman’s persona than black (Batman is not absolute, he is something in between). Gray is also an effective stealth color. Therefore, a gray Batman is at least as effective as an all black Batman. But stealth is not the only concern—Batman also uses his appearance to intimidate—and a black creature, especially at night—by effect of blending into the darkness—will appear smaller than it’s actual size, in effect, making the creature LESS intimidating. And while I understand that some people prefer black, to say that gray is not is feasible is false.

[El Payaso]

The Batman 89 suit looks great when he's standing still. The Batman Begins suit looks great when he's moving. Just my two cents. :)

In fact I wish I could have seen it while fighting.

[El Payaso]

Well if that's the case you could mention any artist. Why not Jim Aparo or Marshall Rogers? To me it LOOKED like Keaton was stuck in the suit & from what I've heard he was...LOL It was a very stiff looking suit. There is no facination with movement I just like the people in my superhero movies to actually be able to move.

Strange, I saw Keaton moving and fighting in the suit. Then I knew it was hard for him to do it, but he did and it looked like he did.

Kilmer said he wasn't able to hear a thing in the cowl, nevertheless in the movie he looks like he's actually hearing. Movie magic.

I just don't understand you because as with any Batman comic in continuity his mask and cape are attached to each other, the oval Bat symbol was separate from both (maybe they were close but still separate) & that was a totally different Bat symbol.

Eh... you forgot to mention the suit was black and not grey and blue?

Of course it had its differences. Less than the Begins' bat-suit respect to the comics but still.

And well, the symbol was slightly different not 'totally.'

They marketed the damn movie with the classic oval Bat symbol but the suit had a different one.

Whoa, just like Batman Begins :)

Amazingly that didn't affect the impact and BO numbers of both movies.

Then you compare Bale & Keaton...LOL Sticking with the whole "Look" of things Keaton didn't look like any Bruce Wayne I've ever seen not to mention his acting skills. "He's out there and I've got work to do"...LOL you better work out first buddy instead of hanging upside down. :)

He doesn't need to work out. He had the suit. :)

And his acting skills as Batman are still compared to Bale's. For many Keaton is still the bat.

I loved B89 during it's time and I think it still a good film. However I don't think it aged well unlike Superman and Superman 2 which are outstanding to this day. The rest of the Bat films are hard to watch imo after watching Begins but this is not the thread for that argument..

It aged well to me. The rest of the bat-films - even when not as good as BB - still have better fight sequences than Begins blur festivals.

[Batman18]

The Batman 89 suit looks great when he's standing still. The Batman Begins suit looks great when he's moving. Just my two cents. :)

Agreed!

[Batman18]

Strange, I saw Keaton moving and fighting in the suit. Then I knew it was hard for him to do it, but he did and it looked like he did.

Kilmer said he wasn't able to hear a thing in the cowl, nevertheless in the movie he looks like he's actually hearing. Movie magic.



Eh... you forgot to mention the suit was black and not grey and blue?

Of course it had its differences. Less than the Begins' bat-suit respect to the comics but still.

And well, the symbol was slightly different not 'totally.'



Whoa, just like Batman Begins :)

Amazingly that didn't affect the impact and BO numbers of both movies.



He doesn't need to work out. He had the suit. :)

And his acting skills as Batman are still compared to Bale's. For many Keaton is still the bat.



It aged well to me. The rest of the bat-films - even when not as good as BB - still have better fight sequences than Begins blur festivals.

Well if you enjoy the B89 type of fighting scenes then more power to you. Yes I think the Begins fighting scenes could have been better. I wish they would do it in the same style of the Bourne movies.

Batman started out without the yellow oval & I couldn't care less about BO numbers.

Well some people just settle for the first thing they are given and are happy with it. I wanted something better and I got it in Bale. I'm sure we coould debate this point forever. People do it all the time here.

We all love Batman, that's the most important thing I guess.

[Brian Braddock]

The Batman 89 suit looks great when he's standing still. The Batman Begins suit looks great when he's moving. Just my two cents. :)


The funny thing is - I grew to love the B89's stiff 'all in one' turn.

It just looked so cool in the Belltower.

"Shall we dance?"

>stiff turn<

[teseract]

Interesting that you should choose a ‘vampire’ as your first point of reference for when one thinks of Batman and vampires one cannot help but think of vampire bats. However, the Common Vampire BAT has grayish-brown fur, not black. In fact, there are no black vampire bats.

Of course, none of these things represents Batman’s totem image—a BAT—and bats are never uniformly black and even those that appear to be black are in fact only nearly black, i.e. gray. And that bats are associated with the night has more to do with the fact that most bat species are nocturnal, not their coloring, which, in any case, is likely to brown, red, or GRAY.

It goes without question that bats are shades of gray—which is actually a better psychological representation of Batman’s persona than black (Batman is not absolute, he is something in between). Gray is also an effective stealth color. Therefore, a gray Batman is at least as effective as an all black Batman. But stealth is not the only concern—Batman also uses his appearance to intimidate—and a black creature, especially at night—by effect of blending into the darkness—will appear smaller than it’s actual size, in effect, making the creature LESS intimidating. And while I understand that some people prefer black, to say that gray is not is feasible is false.

I couldn't care less what a Bat looks like in color because that isn't what my preference of Black is about. I wasn't talking about a vampire BAT. I was talking about a Vampire as the blood sucking mythological creature. When I see them on screen they traditionally wear black. Black is a color that is associated with death and misery in the western cultures therefore black always has an advantage over a non-psychological color like gray. A black cat makes superstitious people shiver, a grey cat not so much. Batman is about intimidation and Black will always be more intimidating than grey because of the whole psychological baggage attached to it.

If we were in Japan, things would be different cause the traditional color of "evil and misery" there is white.

[teseract]

Well if that's the case you could mention any artist. Why not Jim Aparo or Marshall Rogers? To me it LOOKED like Keaton was stuck in the suit & from what I've heard he was...LOL It was a very stiff looking suit. There is no facination with movement I just like the people in my superhero movies to actually be able to move. I just don't understand you because as with any Batman comic in continuity his mask and cape are attached to each other, the oval Bat symbol was separate from both (maybe they were close but still separate) & that was a totally different Bat symbol. They marketed the damn movie with the classic oval Bat symbol but the suit had a different one with feet on it.

I could have used any of those artists yeah but Neal Adams is the Godfather so to speak that's why I mentioned him. The movement is not a problem, that was doen away with in Batman Forever. He could jump, kich do sommersaults and turn his head. he could even run. The only thing that ruined that costume were Schumachers add ons, like nipples and a codpiece.

That's why I said it ALMOST looked like a Neal Adams drawing. Now comes the shocker. I even think some changes made to the costume in B89 were better than the comics *gasp* I liked the B89 belt much better than the plain one in the comics. I liked the scalloped cowl, separate cape and atatched symbol much better than the comic not to speak of the black color. BUT even though the 89 suit tinkered with a few details it kept the shapw pretty much intact. The cape, even though separated from the cowl still draped over his shoulder looking like large, folded wings. The cowl, while a separate piece from the cape still kept the tight shape of the troath muscles. Color the B89 or the Panther suit grey and blue and you get a Batman that looks almost exaclty like a drawing out of the comics.

Then you compare Bale & Keaton...LOL Sticking with the whole "Look" of things Keaton didn't look like any Bruce Wayne I've ever seen not to mention his acting skills. "He's out there and I've got work to do"...LOL you better work out first buddy instead of hanging upside down. :)

His acting skills are leaps and bounds above Bale who's Bruce was far more limited in emotional scope. My fave Batman is Returns anyway, that's the perfect Bat-movie to me.

[BatScot]

I couldn't care less what a Bat looks like in color because that isn't what my preference of Black is about. I wasn't talking about a vampire BAT. I was talking about a Vampire as the blood sucking mythological creature. When I see them on screen they traditionally wear black. Black is a color that is associated with death and misery in the western cultures therefore black always has an advantage over a non-psychological color like gray. A black cat makes superstitious people shiver, a grey cat not so much. Batman is about intimidation and Black will always be more intimidating than grey because of the whole psychological baggage attached to it.None of this refutes the feasibility of gray as a viable motif for Batman.

[teseract]

None of this refutes the feasibility of gray as a viable motif for Batman.
Yes it does, simply cause black works better in terms of psychology. You want to scare people, you scare them with fundamental fears and one thing that is ingrained into the conciousness of western civilzation is Black = evil

[Saint]

No, BatScot was correct. There is a fundamental difference between an argument supporting X, and an argument against Y. They are not the same thing. BatScot chose his words carefully and correctly: nothing you said refutes the feasibility of a gray costume, despite the fact that your statements support a black one.

[teseract]

No, BatScot was correct. There is a fundamental difference between an argument supporting X, and an argument against Y. They are not the same thing. BatScot chose his words carefully and correctly: nothing you said refutes the feasibility of a gray costume, despite the fact that your statements support a black one.
Depends, could a grey costume work? maybe. But a black costume has that one little thing going for it that is psychology. Grey doesn't have that one. It falls short of the most important part of the costume, to create fear.

[Saint]

Depends, could a grey costume work?
It's been working for sixty-eight years, in case you weren't paying attention.

Grey doesn't have that one. It falls short of the most important part of the costume, to create fear.

Hardly. You are grossly overestimating the significance of a black bodysuit, since the bulk of the costume is black, anyway. Your argument about psychology is flawed, also--especially your earlier assertion that grey is "non-psychological," which is ridiculous, because all colours have related psychological effects.

Grey is related to ambiguity (ethically, but also more practically) and mystery, and is specifically said to represent pessimism in psychology. These are critical themes for Batman, just so you're aware. Oh, and of course it is strongly associated with night, or dusk.

So, now that I have carefully squashed your assertion that grey has no psychological baggage useful to Batman, I shall move on to more practical reasons: it is a fact that grey is used as urban camouflage by the military. As BatScot mentioned, black creates an optical illusion making objects appear smaller, where grey does not. Also, the purpose of Batman's costume is not solely to make him look like a creature (this is one of it's purposes, yes), but also like a soldier, and more importantly, like a hero. This is why he wears a symbol on his chest. Grey facilitates the visibility of the symbol. Before someone quotes me and says "TEH CROOKS WON'T SEE TEH SYMBOL BECAUSE BATMAN IS 2 FAST!!" please realize that Batman's costume exists also to make an impression on the police, and even the public, hence all the talk of symbolism in Batman Begins. He is not just a nightmare for criminals, but also hope for everyone else. He has a symbol on his chest so that there can be a visual associated with his ideal, and the symbol must be seen. Anyone who thinks this is silly does not understand the potency of icons in society.

And, of course, contrast is a critical factor in the design of any visual-dependent character, and black-on-black is decidedly lacking in contrast.

[jimmy]

Saint, you're such a saint. :woot:

[Saint]

As an addendum, I would argue that grey is probably more closely related to the supernatural than black is, or at the very least is of equal potency in that area. Ghosts, werewolves, goblins--grey is extremely common among all of them. Of course, it is also the colour of smoke or mist, which no doubt relates to it's ties to mystery, ambiguity, and unknowability. I have always preferred the idea of Batman as a ghost over Batman as a beast; an entity of smoke and mist, rather than brute strength and pulsing muscle. I associate beasts or monsters with crude, brutish, unthinking violence, whereas I associate the idea of a ghost with intelligence, cunning, and a mysterious and methodical nature.

[teseract]

It's been working for sixty-eight years, in case you weren't paying attention.

In the comics, yeah but comics and movies are not the same. Oh and while the comics are nice they certainly need a few updates here and there. The color being one.

Hardly. You are grossly overestimating the significance of a black bodysuit, since the bulk of the costume is black, anyway. Your argument about psychology is flawed, also--especially your earlier assertion that grey is "non-psychological," which is ridiculous, because all colours have related psychological effects.

Grey is related to ambiguity (ethically, but also more practically) and mystery, and is specifically said to represent pessimism in psychology. These are critical themes for Batman, just so you're aware. Oh, and of course it is strongly associated with night, or dusk.

So, now that I have carefully squashed your assertion that grey has no psychological baggage useful to Batman, I shall move on to more practical reasons: it is a fact that grey is used as urban camouflage by the military. As BatScot mentioned, black creates an optical illusion making objects appear smaller, where grey does not. Also, the purpose of Batman's costume is not solely to make him look like a creature (this is one of it's purposes, yes), but also like a soldier, and more importantly, like a hero. This is why he wears a symbol on his chest. Grey facilitates the visibility of the symbol. Before someone quotes me and says "TEH CROOKS WON'T SEE TEH SYMBOL BECAUSE BATMAN IS 2 FAST!!" please realize that Batman's costume exists also to make an impression on the police, and even the public, hence all the talk of symbolism in Batman Begins. He is not just a nightmare for criminals, but also hope for everyone else. He has a symbol on his chest so that there can be a visual associated with his ideal, and the symbol must be seen. Anyone who thinks this is silly does not understand the potency of icons in society.

And, of course, contrast is a critical factor in the design of any visual-dependent character, and black-on-black is decidedly lacking in contrast.

I don't care about practicabilty I care about what looks good.

Yes grey is psychological, I know and I admit that but it's not the kind of psychological message Batman wants to convey in his costume. Ambiguity, pessimism that's his own psyche. The suit isn't there to project his own psyche it's there to create something in the psyche of others and that's fear, not moral ambiguity

As for Mystery, sorry, that's black again. Black is the color of darkness, morbidity, mystery or as CG Jung says" of the night side of reality"

Since when is Batman supposed to look like a soldier:huh: when I look at a Neal Adams drawing I don't see anything that resembles a soldier. As for the camoflage effect. Not important, this ain't the real world, Batman's costume doesn't need to be practical in real life. Besides, why would one want a camoflage effect in a movie? You're supposed to see Batman and when you film him in darkness it's better if he's a black shape so you can see him on screen than if he's blending in with his surrondings. As for the symbol, simple solution, give him back the yellow oval, looks better anyhow. And I don't quite see how a grey bodysuit makes him look more like a hero. Black Panther manages the Hero quite well without symbol and in unicolor. Batman's colors are not iconic. His shape is iconic. you could color a Neal Adams drawing all dark blue and it would still be Batman. Therefore, drop the grey and go for black, it adds more.

[teseract]

As an addendum, I would argue that grey is probably more closely related to the supernatural than black is, or at the very least is of equal potency in that area. Ghosts, werewolves, goblins--grey is extremely common among all of them. Of course, it is also the colour of smoke or mist, which no doubt relates to it's ties to mystery, ambiguity, and unknowability. I have always preferred the idea of Batman as a ghost over Batman as a beast; an entity of smoke and mist, rather than brute strength and pulsing muscle. I associate beasts or monsters with crude, brutish, unthinking violence, whereas I associate the idea of a ghost with intelligence, cunning, and a mysterious and methodical nature.

The colors of a Ghost would be more like white thanks to the white nature of burial gowns. A Werewolf would be gray because...well a wolf's pelt is grey... allthouigh it can be brown too. There are brown werewolves, even black ones in movies and books. Goblins, grey? Funny and here I thought they were mostly green. ;)

You're once again confusing Batmans nature with what he wants to convey. He doesn't want to appear mysterious to criminals, he wants to appear frightening. He wants to scare them, not make them puzzled. The suit is not there to project his own psyche, it's there to create an image in the psyche of others.

[Saint]

In the comics, yeah but comics and movies are not the same.
Fortunately, the difference between the mediums to not magically cause grey to become unusable.

I don't care about practicabilty I care about what looks good.
Curious, because your previous argument was about the practical effects of the costume colour on the mentality of Batman's opponents. Now, you change your tune? In any case, I'm sure you won't be surprised to learn that I think grey looks better, too.

Yes grey is psychological, I know and I admit that but it's not the kind of psychological message Batman wants to convey in his costume.
Supernatural mystery, ambiguity, and unknowability are not messages Batman wants to send? Do you even read Batman comics?

Ambiguity, pessimism that's his own psyche.
Correct; and anyone can tell you that the mentality of a character affects their dress. This is also true of human beings in reality, but is especially true in fiction.

The suit isn't there to project his own psyche it's there to create something in the psyche of others and that's fear, not moral ambiguity
I did not say moral ambiguity, but you're wrong, anyway. Of course Batman wants to project moral ambiguity. He is trying to convince criminals that he is more dangerous than the police; that he will go to lengths that are illegal, immoral, and unthinkable. They are to believe that he is of questionable morality and will commit acts that his fellow heroes will not, such as torture. His message is "the ends justify the means," and that is a message of moral ambiguity.

As for Mystery, sorry, that's black again.
If you believe black holds exclusive claim over mystery, you are truly misguided.

Since when is Batman supposed to look like a soldier:huh:
Since his inception. He has worn a utility belt from day one, which is an item worn by soldiers. He has worn bullet proof vests, and later full bodyarmour. He carries military-grade equipment, and uses military tactics. It is simply the reality that one can see at work in his design: if he were meant to be a creature, all his equipment, his belt, would be carefully disguised. Instead, though, the costume is designed to look functional and supernatural, and superheroic. If it not all of these at once, it isn't Batman. In Batman Begins (and in TDK) they went a little overboard and made him look too much like a soldier, but that element has always been present.

this ain't the real world, Batman's costume doesn't need to be practical in real life.
Excellent! Then you should have no objections to a grey costume with subtler, disguised bodyarmour.

Besides, why would one want a camoflage effect in a movie? You're supposed to see Batman and when you film him in darkness it's better if he's a black shape so you can see him on screen than if he's blending in with his surrondings.
...Are you for real?

And I don't quite see how a grey bodysuit makes him look more like a hero.
Then you should look harder.

Batman's colors are not iconic.
Haha! Your credibility is gone! Wave it goodbye!

Therefore, drop the grey and go for black, it adds more.
If by "adds more" you actually mean "adds nothing," then yes.

[SolidSnakeMGS]

but you're wrong, anyway

I don't think you can tell a person that their opinion of a color and its meaning is wrong. In your last post, you made some silly points, but they're merely your opinion and hardly certifiable as either right or wrong.

This thread really has plunged for the worse!

[Saint]

Goblins, grey? Funny and here I thought they were mostly green. ;)
Wiki: "In folklore, grey is often associated with goblin folk of several kinds. Scandinavian folklore often depicts their gnomes and nisser in grey clothing. This is partly because of their association with dusk, partly because these races, including elves (see below), often are outside moral standards (black or white)."

You're once again confusing Batmans nature with what he wants to convey. He doesn't want to appear mysterious to criminals, he wants to appear frightening.
You think the two are mutually exclusive? You are extremely naive.

He wants to scare them, not make them puzzled.
Confusion is one of the main causes of fear. Moreover, he absolutely does want to puzzle them. Confusion is one of his primary tools. Get this through your head: fear is not the only function of the costume. This is not debatable.

The suit is not there to project his own psyche
Wrong again. Of course it is there to project his own psyche. Go read a Batman comic, man. The first issue of DKR, maybe? The costume is as much an outlet for his own inner self as it is a functional tool.

For all your talk about Neal Adams, I'm forced to wonder if you ever read anything by the writer of that particular team. Denny O'Neil understood that the costume is the method through which Bruce Wayne becomes his true self (or what he has convinced himself is his true self). It is a psychological modifier for himself as much as anyone else; he uses it to cultivate the qualities and traits within himself that are required for Batman to exist. This is detailed rather nicely in O'Neil's novelization of "Knightfall." When Bane breaks into the batcave, finding Bruce, Bruce pulls on the mask. Bane says "You can't hide," thinking Bruce is making some futile attempt at concealing his already-exposed identity. Bruce says "I'm not hiding, I'm becoming." Fear is not the objective here: Bane has already demonstrated he is not afraid, nor is there any chance of making him afraid. Bruce puts the mask on because he needs it to bring out the Batman, so to speak. There is also an internal monologue from Bruce about the psychological shift that occurs, induced by the mask, when he becomes Batman.

Finally, there is a scene where Alfred explains to Tim the reason why Tim must always wear his mask within the cave. Alfred explains that, in his travels, Bruce encountered (or studied, I don't recall) a tribe of Africans who believed that wearing the mask of a God assumed that God's identity. The individual wearing the mask would become the God. While Bruce did not believe in the mysticism, obviously, he believed in the principle behind it: the masks facilitate the mental shift needed to become that second entity. Or, to use your words, Bruce needs the mask to project the portions of his psyche that make up the Batman.

[CConn]

Well in that case: LOL, TEHEEOL, LMFAO, HI-FRICKIN'-LARIOUS!

:dry: Sorry, it just wasn't funny.This is why I choose to just insult people; because it's useless to even attempt to explain something.

You think I'm an idiot, wonderful. I think you may be Jewish (I have nothing to back that up), let's just leave it at that, and part ways.
If you read the post you quoted you'll see he wrote "New for new's sake", which is quite different from simply new.I took it that he was insinuating that any new suit (or, at least, what I was proposing), was new for new's sake.

[Saint]

I don't think you can tell a person that their opinion of a color and its meaning is wrong.
Sure I can. It's my opinion that his opinion is wrong (or at least based on incomplete information). I explained the reasoning behind it. If someone does not want their opinions to be examined and responded to critically, they should not be posting on a forum at all. They shouldn't go outside or interact with other human beings, either.

Also, the sentence you quoted did not involve me telling him that his opinion of the colour was wrong. He said that Batman does not want to project moral ambiguity, and I said he was wrong and explained why. The entire quote is as follows:

I did not say moral ambiguity, but you're wrong, anyway. Of course Batman wants to project moral ambiguity. He is trying to convince criminals that he is more dangerous than the police; that he will go to lengths that are illegal, immoral, and unthinkable. They are to believe that he is of questionable morality and will commit acts that his fellow heroes will not, such as torture. His message is "the ends justify the means," and that is a message of moral ambiguity.

I'd appreciate it if you paid attention to the arguments I am actually making, before trying to refute them.

In your last post, you made some silly points,
If "silly" is internet slang for "awesome," then yes, yes I did.

[CConn]

You can try, but I doubt you would want to spend approximately 1000$ just to call me an idiot. Besides, It wouldn't make much of a difference cause I would only be laughing in your face then instead of laughing in front of my screen.:woot:Well, that's my point exactly; no matter whether it's in person or over the internet an insult is ultimately worthless.

And in the end this whole discussion is worthless. A 5000 word debate is, ultimately, no better than 50 petty little insults. Minds are rarely changed - I've learned that over the past three years.
True, it can be done but the costume would loose the creature look and that's imho a major part of its function. It would just look like cloth, like a costume not like second skin.Honestly, I think that depends on the texture of the fabric. I mean, it wouldn't just be a layer of cotton. Look at Spider-Man's black costume; that features a black pattern that literally looks wet and shiny; almost like it's some form of skin.
I'm all for inovation but not when the inovation makes things worseBut, I would argue, you can't say something you haven't seen looks worse. You haven't seen it.
or in the case of Bats, strays even further from the books.But I've proven it would be even MORE accurate. You can have your opinions on whether you'd think it'd look better or worse, but I just can't see how you can argue that having a gray fabric suit would be any less accurate than black rubber.
I don't mind going forward and trying something new but only if that "new" isn't a step backwards and I think fabric is a step backwards because of all the reasons I have cited.The only reason you cited is that you like to see Batman's muscles...and that fabric isn't comic accurate (which is wholly untrue).
As for "exploring" the whole Universe of Batman, No objection but in that whole Universe there has always been one constant and that's the way the costume is designed.Yes, it's always been a fabric, gray and black/blue suit with all of the cool accessories. No rubber, and, generally, no black bodysuit.
It's always sharp muscles, yellow belt, scalloped cape, pointy boots, fins on the gloves, a smooth mask with two pointy ears and a symbol (I prefer the oval by the way, it's classical to me and simply looks better imho.)Agreed. And that's exactly what I am basically proposing; a fabric, gray and black costume, with all of the things you listed included.
I agree, the B89 suit was great, the Panther suit, however, was better (if one ignores the nipples and codpiece). The only changes that should have been made to the B89 suit were, making it less bulky, a better muscle cut and design and less thickness to the rubber. As for the cowl, I like the cowl of the Returns suit best out of the three suits. My ideal suit would be the Panther without the nips and a less busy muscle design with the Returns cowl and maybe the Returns belt... allthough I somehow like the capsule belt of the Panther. Oh and of course no Kilmer... instead I would prefer Keaton back in it. ^^I think we can stop talking about nips and which man we'd like to see in some rubber now. :o
I don't see a fabric suit when I open my comics. I see a material that creates shape and definition like no fabric could. What makes you think it is fabric if it doesn't look like fabric?Because it's been stated countless times in the comics that it is made out of fabric. It's been shown to fold, and rip, and move like fabric, it simply IS fabric in every way save for showing off A LOT of muscle definition.
My focus in terms of the suit are many fold. I want the muscle definition, I want the optical contrast, created by the inking in the books (sharp, black shadows) and I want it to feel like a creature of the night, while retaining the Batman shape (mouth opening, belt, cowl, fins etc.). Rubber is smooth, manages the sharp definition and contrast and looks like the skin of a creature. Its practicability is also no longer an issue in the movies. Fabric on the other hand falls flat, at least in the second skin department and in terms of the sharp muscle contrast I like. I have seen fabric costumes, some even going the so much touted Spider-Man route and I still think they don't cut it. The muscle definition in most looks flat when airbrushed on no roundness, no shape. It's sub-par if compared to the rubber. I'm all for forward stepping but I'm not for taking steps backwards.When talking about muscle definition, Spider-Man's suit is designed to not show a great deal of muscle definition. Open up any Spider-Man comic; Spidey looks like a regular dude. He doesn't have the giant, exaggerated muscles Batman does, and thusly, his fabric costume, reflects that.

Also, don't get me wrong, I agree with all of your "pros" on rubber. I think the rubber suits worked fantastically in the first three, four movies, and there's really no reason to complain about them, but I just don't think they're the be all end all to live action Batman.
As for the grey color, I never thought the color is what is iconic about Batman, it's the shape of the costume that defines the character. All black, dark blue, It wouldn't really matter as long as it is a dark color. If the shape and overal design is kept intact it would still be Batman. That aside Black is simply the better choice 'cause of its psychological implications. I have never seen a grey Vampire for example. Black Cats, Ravens, the Black Death, everytime something really terrorizes the western conciousness it's always associated with the color black. Therefore, an all black Batman is much more feasable than a grey Batman. Grey looks not only dull, it also doesn't embody the image Batman wishes to create, like black does.You have to understand though, that's your opinion, and while it's a perfectly valid one, one I don't even particularly disagree with, it's certainly not one that everyone or even most people hold. It's certainly not one that can be backed up with any general consensus or factual information. And there's nothing wrong with that. But, when I say a costume like I described is more comic accurate, and should someday be made because of that, it has some factual information in it. It IS more comic accurate. And, I think we can agree, generally most fans want comic movies to be as accurate as possible. Generally.

[BatScot]

This thread really has plunged for the worse!At the risk of being blunt, you could not be more wrong in that assessment; Saint’s recent post are among the most intelligent and brilliantly argued that anyone is likely to encounter on these forums.

[BatScot]

WTG? That's not what he said in another interview. There's another interview on youtube (http://batman-on-film.com/batman-89_UK_documentary.html) where he says that, the only reason Batman wears a suit is because he isn't pumped.Burton DOES NOT say in that documentary that the only reason Batman wears a suit is because he isn't pumped. What he does say is “he’s not Arnold Schwarzenegger because if he were why would he need to put on the batsuit” and that does not contradict what Burton has said elsewhere relevant to the premise that Batman ALSO wears the batsuit to elicit a fear response in others.

[Mr. Socko]

In the comics, yeah but comics and movies are not the same. Oh and while the comics are nice they certainly need a few updates here and there. The color being one.



I don't care about practicabilty I care about what looks good.

Yes grey is psychological, I know and I admit that but it's not the kind of psychological message Batman wants to convey in his costume. Ambiguity, pessimism that's his own psyche. The suit isn't there to project his own psyche it's there to create something in the psyche of others and that's fear, not moral ambiguity

As for Mystery, sorry, that's black again. Black is the color of darkness, morbidity, mystery or as CG Jung says" of the night side of reality"

Since when is Batman supposed to look like a soldier:huh: when I look at a Neal Adams drawing I don't see anything that resembles a soldier. As for the camoflage effect. Not important, this ain't the real world, Batman's costume doesn't need to be practical in real life. Besides, why would one want a camoflage effect in a movie? You're supposed to see Batman and when you film him in darkness it's better if he's a black shape so you can see him on screen than if he's blending in with his surrondings. As for the symbol, simple solution, give him back the yellow oval, looks better anyhow. And I don't quite see how a grey bodysuit makes him look more like a hero. Black Panther manages the Hero quite well without symbol and in unicolor. Batman's colors are not iconic. His shape is iconic. you could color a Neal Adams drawing all dark blue and it would still be Batman. Therefore, drop the grey and go for black, it adds more.


Good job in deflating your entire argument.:dry:

[Mr. Socko]

Depends, could a grey costume work? maybe. But a black costume has that one little thing going for it that is psychology. Grey doesn't have that one. It falls short of the most important part of the costume, to create fear.


Aren't you forgetting something...this ain't the real world.

In Gotham City, grey may very well instill fear on the forces of evil much more than black ever could. Why...because it's fiction, as you so elegantly put it.

So basically, your psychology colors crap simply doesn't hold. That's not important, this ain't the real world. Right?

[jimmy]

Burton DOES NOT say in that documentary that the only reason Batman wears a suit is because he isn't pumped. What he does say is “he’s not Arnold Schwarzenegger because if he were why would he need to put on the batsuit” and that does not contradict what Burton has said elsewhere relevant to the premise that Batman ALSO wears the batsuit to elicit a fear response in others.

HAHAHA! Why are we even arguing about what Tim Burton said? I don't even care anymore. But I know you do. So, please, take your rhetoric to the Tim Burton forum.

Now, if you wanna talk about sex, then let's talk about seXXX babay!
Let's talk about YOU and ME!
Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things, that make ME!
Let's about seXX!

[BatScot]

Besides, why would one want a camoflage effect in a movie? You're supposed to see Batman and when you film him in darkness it's better if he's a black shape so you can see him on screen than if he's blending in with his surrondings.A Batman in black&gray would also appear as a black shape when filmed in darkness and as a shadow against a backdrop just as effectively as an all-black costume would.

[BatScot]

Why are we even arguing about what Tim Burton said?Because YOU raised the question: jimmy_rhoads Post #13341 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12805131&postcount=13341)... and have misquoted Burton ever since.

I don't even care anymore.Well, that’s only because you were proven wrong in the matter.

But I know you do.Yes, but that’s only because I was right.

So, please, take your rhetoric to the Tim Burton forum.Not rhetoric, fact—as cold and hard as they come. But rather than concede the point with some dignity you throw this verbal tantrum much like a child who failed to get his way.

[bunk]

Good god. I'll have to come back and read all this tomorrow.

[jimmy]

Because YOU raised the question: jimmy_rhoads Post #13341 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12805131&postcount=13341)... and have misquoted Burton ever since.

Well, that’s only because you were proven wrong in the matter.

Yes, but that’s only because I was right.

Not rhetoric, fact—as cold and hard as they come. But rather than concede the point with some dignity you throw this verbal tantrum much like a child who failed to get his way.

I'm not throwing any tantrums. I just want to thank you. :yay:

[Conebone69]

Anything new? I havent been on for about a month

[jimmy]

Nothing new. That's why we're arguing about nothing.

[Conebone69]

Nothing new. That's why we're arguing about nothing.
You guys should really get out and enjoy life in the meantime. Seriously, get out from under your rock

[RogerW]

Haha! Your credibility is gone! Wave it goodbye!


He was right though, the colors are not iconic. The main features of Batman most people, outside of comic fans, know of are the ears, cape and utility belt. A change in color, or the height of his boots, or a lack of oval on his chest does not make it any less batman.

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Sure I can. It's my opinion that his opinion is wrong (or at least based on incomplete information). I explained the reasoning behind it. If someone does not want their opinions to be examined and responded to critically, they should not be posting on a forum at all. They shouldn't go outside or interact with other human beings, either.

Also, the sentence you quoted did not involve me telling him that his opinion of the colour was wrong. He said that Batman does not want to project moral ambiguity, and I said he was wrong and explained why. The entire quote is as follows:


I'd appreciate it if you paid attention to the arguments I am actually making, before trying to refute them.

LOL, really, get over yourself. :woot: Don't hand me this crap about opinion and the opinion of others. Yours is NO MORE qualified than anyone's, and as any comic book reader knows, due to so many different factors (different writers, retconning), many comic book characters and their motives (and other facets to their character) are perfectly open to interpretation and re-evaluation. Your &quot;opinion&quot; that his &quot;opinion&quot; is wrong about whatever is plain laughable. I was posting your general attitude about his opinion on the suit, not anything specific. Its obvious you have a holier-than-thou attitude about it, like you're Kane/Finger themselves, and you're going to extreme lengths not to prove you're right, but to prove someone else's is wrong.


My suggestion is to take a deep breath, take a step back, and loosen your grip a bit on this. No one has seen the damn movie yet so there are no experts.

[Mr. Socko]

LOL, really, get over yourself. :woot: Don't hand me this crap about opinion and the opinion of others. Yours is NO MORE qualified than anyone's, and as any comic book reader knows, due to so many different factors (different writers, retconning), many comic book characters and their motives (and other facets to their character) are perfectly open to interpretation and re-evaluation. Your &quot;opinion&quot; that his &quot;opinion&quot; is wrong about whatever is plain laughable. I was posting your general attitude about his opinion on the suit, not anything specific. Its obvious you have a holier-than-thou attitude about it, like you're Kane/Finger themselves, and you're going to extreme lengths not to prove you're right, but to prove someone else's is wrong.


My suggestion is to take a deep breath, take a step back, and loosen your grip a bit on this. No one has seen the damn movie yet so there are no experts.

That's where you're wrong. He's Saint, his opinion is more qualified than anyones...that includes Chuck Norris.

[nameless_hero]

Monsters check under their beds for Chuck Norris

[bunk]

Batman > Jack Bauer > Chuck Norris

[Andy114425]

Chuck Norris is so tough he broke into Hitlers bunker, so Hitler killed himself in fear. (that story in the text books is all a conspiracy)

[nameless_hero]

Chuck Norris doesn't get wet, water gets Chuck Norris

[Fenrir]

Chuck Norris is so tough he broke into Hitlers bunker, so Hitler killed himself in fear. (that story in the text books is all a conspiracy)

A 5 year old Chuck Norris scaring the s**t out of Hitler. Now THAT'S badass. :ninja::up:

[Saint]

LOL, really, get over yourself. :woot:
No, I don't think so.


Yours is NO MORE qualified than anyone's
Are you sure?

and as any comic book reader knows, due to so many different factors (different writers, retconning), many comic book characters and their motives (and other facets to their character) are perfectly open to interpretation and re-evaluation.
Correct: and my evaluation of his character fits nicely into all of his eras, save perhaps the fifties and sixties.

Its obvious you have a holier-than-thou attitude about it
And?

like you're Kane/Finger themselves,
No, just a fan who knows what he's talking about.

and you're going to extreme lengths not to prove you're right, but to prove someone else's is wrong.
Extreme lengths? Why does everybody always say stuff like this when I post? Do you guys really think typing out a couple of paragraphs some sort of monumental effort? I can't imagine how lazy people must be to imagine that taking a few minutes to produce a decent post is viewed as "extreme."

No one has seen the damn movie yet so there are no experts.
Then it's a good thing we're not talking about the movie at all, eh? We're talking about the merits of a grey costume. Could you at least understand the argument before participating?

[Saint]

That's where you're wrong. He's Saint, his opinion is more qualified than anyones...that includes Chuck Norris.

Damn right. I've got Chuck Norris polishing my boots.

[BatScot]

He was right though, the colors are not iconic.iconic
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of an icon.
2. executed according to a convention or tradition.

By definition then, the colors black and gray are ICONIC elements of the character.

But even if you are of the opinion that Batman’s conventional and traditional color motif is not iconic then you must also accept that as long as Batman is ‘iconically’ shaped and appears sufficiently dark that whether Batman is dressed in black, gray, blue, etc., is largely irrelevant and having made that concession one must also concede that an all-black Batman, or a black&gray Batman, or a blue Batman, or a red Batman, or a brown Batman are all equally feasible. For having based such an ‘iconic’ position on shape alone one cannot then say that an all-black Batman is any better than any other sufficiently dark and similarly shaped motif.

The shape only argument nullifies color as a primary concern and therefore any reasonable color motif is valid.

[Fenrir]

iconic
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of an icon.
2. executed according to a convention or tradition.

By definition then, the colors black and gray are ICONIC elements of the character.

Isn't it the dark blue and gray combination that's the iconic color combination rather than black and gray?

[jimmy]

iconic
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of an icon.
2. executed according to a convention or tradition.

By definition then, the colors black and gray are ICONIC elements of the character.

But even if you are of the opinion that Batman’s conventional and traditional color motif is not iconic then you must also accept that as long as Batman is ‘iconically’ shaped and appears sufficiently dark that whether Batman is dressed in black, gray, blue, etc., is largely irrelevant and having made that concession one must also concede that an all-black Batman, or a black&gray Batman, or a blue Batman, or a red Batman, or a brown Batman are all equally feasible. For having based such an ‘iconic’ position on shape alone one cannot then say that an all-black Batman is any better than any other sufficiently dark and similarly shaped motif.

The shape only argument nullifies color as a primary concern and therefore any reasonable color motif is valid.

Man! You write like a book!

I almost feel like baiting you again so that you can bust out with more thesis-sized posts.

[Hobodeluxe]

While everyone has the right to their opinion ,not every opinion has the same merit.

[itsthebatman]

Saint> Batman > Jack Bauer > Chuck Norris
Corrected for truth.

[The Only Woj]

I really hope they go with the cloth-look in the JLA movie. Let Batman be a little more 'superheroy'. give him the belt with all the pouches. all that jazz.

[raybia]

I really hope they go with the cloth-look in the JLA movie. Let Batman be a little more 'superheroy'. give him the belt with all the pouches. all that jazz.

Its going to be CGI so you may get your wish.

[CaptainClown]

was it confirmed? I read it was a high probability but not confirmed/

[raybia]

was it confirmed? I read it was a high probability but not confirmed/

not confirmed at this point

[CConn]

And the current rumors say it will be live action.

[bunk]

Its going to be CGI so you may get your wish.



http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=285196

[BatScot]

Isn't it the dark blue and gray combination that's the iconic color combination rather than black and gray?Blue is symbolic of black: http://forums.superherohype.com/post#464 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12784119&postcount=464)

[BatScot]

Man! You write like a book!No, I read a book. It’s called the dictionary. But obviously you are unfamiliar with such a thing.

I almost feel like baiting you again so that you can bust out with more thesis-sized posts. LOL... if by baiting me you mean making an incorrect statement and then going on to prove how truly foolish you were in the first place by continuing to defend that ignorance even when the facts have been presented in black and white for everyone to see well then all I can say is go for it because that sort of idiocy says more about your deficiencies than anything I could ever write!

[jimmy]

No, I read a book. It’s called the dictionary. But obviously you are unfamiliar with such a thing.

LOL... if by baiting me you mean making an incorrect statement and then going on to prove how truly foolish you were in the first place by continuing to defend that ignorance even when the facts have been presented in black and white for everyone to see well then all I can say is go for it because that sort of idiocy says more about your deficiencies than anything I could ever write!

The truth is, I just like the way you write stuff. Your logos confounds me. I was never serious about my Tim Burton statements. I just wanted to spice it up. Are you going to rape me with syntax and rhetoric now?

[BatScot]

The truth is, I just like the way you write stuff. Your logos confounds me. I was never serious about my Tim Burton statements. I just wanted to spice it up. Are you going to rape me with syntax and rhetoric now?Jimmy, if you’re not careful you’ll end up putting that hook through your finger.

[jimmy]

The hook is already in my mouth. :(

[breyfogle_rules]

Blue is symbolic of black: http://forums.superherohype.com/post#464

Cite the article where Kane or Finger say this and I'll believe you.

I realize you prefer black on Bats. You could have just said so. You don't have to rewrite history. Batman is blue. I'm not aware of too many facts more fundamental than this.

Now, technically the sky isn't blue either. It's jusy the shorter wavelengths of light being absorbed by gas molecules, perceived by humans during the day as "blue".

But you know what?

It's freakin blue.


So is batman.

[BatScot]

Cite the article where Kane or Finger say this and I'll believe you.

I realize you prefer black on Bats. You could have just said so. You don't have to rewrite history. Batman is blue. I'm not aware of too many facts more fundamental than this.

Now, technically the sky isn't blue either. It's jusy the shorter wavelengths of light being absorbed by gas molecules, perceived by humans during the day as "blue".

But you know what?

It's freakin blue.


So is batman.Cite the article where Kane or Finger say this and I'll believe you.

[breyfogle_rules]

I've got Bill Finger on the phone right now. I just asked him what he thinks the color blue is more symbolic of: Black or Blue.

He's thinking it over. In the meantime, here is an interview (http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU) with him where he admits that orange is actually meant to be symbolic of purple. He also says that 'yes' is the new 'no'.

[CaptainClown]

damn it why don't people tell me these things, no wonder people kept saying ya I don't like your purple tie. They really were saying I love your orange tie

[BatScot]

I've got Bill Finger on the phone right now. I just asked him what he thinks the color blue is more symbolic of: Black or Blue.

He's thinking it over. In the meantime, here is an interview (http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU) with him where he admits that orange is actually meant to be symbolic of purple. He also says that 'yes' is the new 'no'.“I had decided from the beginning that this ‘Batman’ was not going to be in blue knickers,” said costume designer Bob Ringwood. “I hated those. Bats are black, of course – not blue – and black is much more sinister and sexy. After talking to Batman creator Bob Kane, we found out that he had always thought of ‘Batman’ as being in black, but that it was very difficult to draw a black-on-black drawing for the comic strip. So he had drawn it in blue so that he could use different tones of the color for effect. In his mind, the blue was just a symbolic version of black. Our black costume was really nearer the original concept.”

Cite the article where Kane or Finger say this and I'll believe you.Reinventing the Batsuit for the Modern Era (http://blogs.amctv.com/future_of_classic/2007/06/reinventing-the.html)

[breyfogle_rules]

^^ Bob Ringwood paraphrasing. And I'm a B89 hater since the age of 12, so I'm not super pursuaded. But I'm impressed, Batscot. I'm gonna have to concede this one. Nicely done.

[metalhead971]

Really, if you think about it, what sense would it make to have a BLUE batsuit?

[The Redux 714]

I always though that the blue was artistic highlights. Ya know, instead of having a huge black ink blog on the paper, to give it dimension.

[breyfogle_rules]

I know. It's like having a red and blue spider suit or something.

Blue-haters of the world: Do you believe DC's shift to a clearly solid blue Batman in the 60's (not just highlights) was all part of an elaborate misquotation - beloved the world over until the present day - that could have been avoided if they had simply consulted Bob?

[breyfogle_rules]

I always though that the blue was artistic highlights. Ya know, instead of having a huge black ink blog on the paper, to give it dimension.


Ah yes, back in 1954 when you first got into Batman?

[breyfogle_rules]

Oh. and all. Please excuse my smart-ass tone. I'm doggish on loving my blue Batman but hope never to "dog" my fellow batman dawgs.

[Matchbox]

Oh. and all. Please excuse my smart-ass tone. I'm doggish on loving my blue Batman but hope never to "dog" my fellow batman dawgs.

Ah, gotcha. Duely noted. *twitches*

[jimmy]

Straight up on tha hizzy, mah nizzie, fuh shizzie, dawg.

[BatScot]

Oh. and all. Please excuse my smart-ass tone. I'm doggish on loving my blue Batman but hope never to "dog" my fellow batman dawgs.That you had the cojones to say:

I'm gonna have to concede this one.... is enough to keep things cool in my book.

The Helen Mirren avy doesn't hurt either ;)

[jimmy]

That you had the cojones to say:

... is enough to keep things cool in my book.


d00d, if all you wanted me to do was bend over for some surprise buttsecks, then you could have just asked me. PM me for my address.

[BatScot]

d00d, if all you wanted me to do was bend over for some surprise buttsecks, then you could have just asked me. PM me for my address.All I want for you to do is go away.

[jimmy]

But I want to talk about Batman. :(:up:

[BatScot]

Then do so, otherwise STFU.

[jimmy]

Shut the funk up? OKAY!

Let's talk about the new suit:

Do you think Batman is going to have gauntlets that shoot out Bat-Ninja Stars like Jean-Paul Valley's in Knight Quest?

[Mr. Socko]

Yeah, Batman was originally meant to have a blue suit, and Venom was also meant to be purple. :dry:

[TatersPrecious]

Those sketches are awesome. But while I was a bit put off upon my first viewing of the official suit, I think it will work well in the film.

[CConn]

We've learned SO much about Batscot's sexual preferences these last few days.

[CConn]

I know. It's like having a red and blue spider suit or something.

Blue-haters of the world: Do you believe DC's shift to a clearly solid blue Batman in the 60's (not just highlights) was all part of an elaborate misquotation - beloved the world over until the present day - that could have been avoided if they had simply consulted Bob?
Actually, it was Bob Kane himself who started drawing a blue-dominated Batman costume in the first place in the '40s.

While the original suit definitely could be thought of as black with blue just being used to highlight it, that original suit only lasted a year or two before Kane redefined it into the suit we know and love, which was nothing but blue.

For example:

Kane/Finger's original design:

http://jerome.galica.free.fr/dc%20comics/Batman/BatmanDetective27_felipe.gif

The redesign that appeared just a few years later and stayed for over 40 years:

http://jerome.galica.free.fr/dc%20comics/Batman/Batman%20Golden%20Age%20Detect27_RT.gif

Both of those were drawn by Bob Kane. Now, do they both look like they're meant to be black, or does one look like it should be black, and another blue?

I'm not trying to say I prefer blue over black or anything like that - I like both a lot - but to say that one is more valid than the other, I just can't buy that. While black may have been the original design, blue was used for so many years, that it's become just as linked with Batman's image.

[BatScot]

Actually, it was Bob Kane himself who started drawing a blue-dominated Batman costume in the first place in the '40s.Actually, that was Jerry Robinson.

[CConn]

Actually, that was Jerry Robinson.I'm sorry, what I meant was, Bob Kane did draw the all blue version of the suit countless times over his, what, 20, 30 years of drawing Batman?

[BatScot]

We've learned SO much about Batscot's sexual preferences these last few days.LOL... it’s bad enough that your post rarely rise above the cliché, but this sort of triviality is just embarrassing.

[BatScot]

I'm sorry, what I meant was, Bob Kane did draw the all blue version of the suit countless times over his, what, 20, 30 years of drawing Batman?Actually, what you meant to say was, Sheldon Moldoff drew the all blue version of the suit countless times.

[Brian Braddock]

I'm sorry, what I meant was, Bob Kane did draw the all blue version of the suit countless times over his, what, 20, 30 years of drawing Batman?


Sorry to be pedantic - but did Kane really draw Batman for 30 years?

I was always under the impression that around the mid 1940's he employed other artists to actually draw the strips - he just signed his name on the work.

The likes of Stan Kaye, Sheldon Moldoff, Dick Sprang, Jack Burnley, and Carmine Infantino spring to mind.

[BatScot]

Sorry to be pedantic - but did Kane really draw Batman for 30 years?

I was always under the impression that around the mid 1940's he employed other artists to actually draw the strips - he just signed his name on the work.

The likes of Stan Kaye, Sheldon Moldoff, Dick Sprang, Jack Burnley, and Carmine Infantino spring to mind.Now here's somebody that knows what they're talking about.

[CConn]

LOL... it’s bad enough that your post rarely rise above the cliché, but this sort of triviality is just embarrassing.pro•jec•tion –noun
Psychology. the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself, or to regard external reality as embodying such feelings, thoughts, etc., in some way.

[CConn]

Sorry to be pedantic - but did Kane really draw Batman for 30 years?

I was always under the impression that around the mid 1940's he employed other artists to actually draw the strips - he just signed his name on the work.

The likes of Stan Kaye, Sheldon Moldoff, Dick Sprang, Jack Burnley, and Carmine Infantino spring to mind.DC themselves credit Kane as doing several Batman comics reaching into the '50s and '60s. All of them? God no. Most of them? Not even that. But, along with everyone you mentioned (all of whom I'm quite a fan of), he is credited for individual issues.

Granted, I will admit - hell, DC admits - that the crediting of comics in those early years isn't an exact science, but as close as they can tell, he did do some of them.

[BatScot]

pro•jec•tion –noun
Psychology. the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself, or to regard external reality as embodying such feelings, thoughts, etc., in some way.Not the most original of comebacks, but I got to give you credit for stealing from the best.

[breyfogle_rules]

While the original suit definitely could be thought of as black with blue just being used to highlight it, that original suit only lasted a year or two before Kane redefined it into the suit we know and love, which was nothing but blue.



Kane's original design for Batman was actually red tights and a hamburgler mask. Quote Bill Finger...

" I went over to Kane's, and he had drawn a character who looked very much like Superman with kind of ... reddish tights, I believe, with boots ... no gloves, no gauntlets ... with a small domino mask (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_mask), swinging on a rope. He had two stiff wings that were sticking out,looking like bat wings. And under it was a big sign ... BATMAN"

Batscots entire bossy tone is nothing but a load of hogwash. Same for Mrs. Socko.
:oldrazz: :oldrazz: :oldrazz:

[Mr. Socko]

Kane's original design for Batman was actually red tights and a hamburgler mask. Quote Bill Finger...

" I went over to Kane's, and he had drawn a character who looked very much like Superman with kind of ... reddish tights, I believe, with boots ... no gloves, no gauntlets ... with a small domino mask (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_mask), swinging on a rope. He had two stiff wings that were sticking out,looking like bat wings. And under it was a big sign ... BATMAN"

Batscots entire bossy tone is nothing but a load of hogwash. Same for Mrs. Socko.
:oldrazz: :oldrazz: :oldrazz:


Don't drag me into anything. I know a scab beetle crawled up your ass after you ate those stale Wheaties this morning but don't come crying to me.

[Silver Knight]

We need new promo pics.

[Hobodeluxe]

I think the Blue -Grey fabric suit would still work. JMHO

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9304/batmannewsu1ys4.jpg

[Brian Braddock]

I think the Blue -Grey fabric suit would still work. JMHO

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9304/batmannewsu1ys4.jpg

On that manip it looks very nice - reminds be of Alan Davis' Batman when I look at it, and that definatley is a good thing.

I'm still unsure as to what it would look like a full motion for whole film though - those colours are also reminisent of the tv show - which has a lot of stigma attached to it.

[TheBatman072]

I think the Blue -Grey fabric suit would still work. JMHO

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9304/batmannewsu1ys4.jpg


Gah!

[Lobster Charlie]

I think the Blue -Grey fabric suit would still work. JMHO

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9304/batmannewsu1ys4.jpg

I'd rather they use that for the JLA movie---just to further separate the two Batmen.

[Hole Shot]

I'd rather they use that for the JLA movie---just to further separate the two Batmen.

This is a good point, I was just over in the DC Comic forum and think Team Panties & Lenses should go hang in the Justice League discussions. New friends and new romances may be awaiting you over there. Someone even posted a picture from Collora's World's Lamest trailer and they all think that's the right look for Batman.

[BatScot]

Kane's original design for Batman was actually red tights and a hamburgler mask. Quote Bill Finger...

" I went over to Kane's, and he had drawn a character who looked very much like Superman with kind of ... reddish tights, I believe, with boots ... no gloves, no gauntlets ... with a small domino mask, swinging on a rope. He had two stiff wings that were sticking out,looking like bat wings. And under it was a big sign ... BATMAN"
:... and it was Finger who suggested that the character be dressed in black and gray, and thus it is primarily Finger’s contributions that defined Batman. In contrast, Kane's original design—the red birdman—is significant only in illustrating the importance of Finger’s contributions to the iconography of the character.

Batscots entire bossy tone is nothing but a load of hogwash. One man’s hogwash is another man’s load (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12831540&postcount=13430).

[jimmy]

Bat-Scot is like the Great pumpkin: every night, between the hours of 12 AM and 1 PM, he makes amazing posts.

[Infinity9999x]

I think the Blue -Grey fabric suit would still work. JMHO

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9304/batmannewsu1ys4.jpg

I think something like that could work, if you darkened up the gray.

Personally though, I just wouldn't want to see it. I've always been one who prefers darker costumes to lighter. I preferred the Symbiot Spidey (original design where it had red in it) to normal spidey, and I've liked the black gray/all black over the blue/gay bats. That's just my personal taste though.

[GoogleMe94]

speakin of batsuits, this is pretty horrible:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELUXE-Batman-Costume-from-1997-Val-Kilmer-Movie-LG_W0QQitemZ230176178312QQihZ013QQcategoryZ52762QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng

and look at the price this guy is selling for! truly this guy is joking.

[Gianakin_]

Good God, you're right. It does suck.

[Two-Face]

speakin of batsuits, this is pretty horrible:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELUXE-Batman-Costume-from-1997-Val-Kilmer-Movie-LG_W0QQitemZ230176178312QQihZ013QQcategoryZ52762QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng

and look at the price this guy is selling for! truly this guy is joking.



Yeah it sucks, $499?:whatever:

[BatScot]

Bat-Scot is like the Great pumpkin: every night, between the hours of 12 AM and 1 PM, he makes amazing posts.Your metaphor doesn't work, but that last part is right on the money.

[Shoemeister]

I think the Blue -Grey fabric suit would still work. JMHO

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9304/batmannewsu1ys4.jpg

Ugh. :whatever:

[BatScot]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Black%20and%20Gray/tdksuit3xp6.jpg

[Mr. Socko]

Yeah it sucks, $499?:whatever:


LMAO! It's a suit that idiot made using Batman Begins and Batman Forever parts.

[breyfogle_rules]

Don't drag me into anything. I know a scab beetle crawled up your ass after you ate those stale Wheaties this morning but don't come crying to me.

You're alright, socko.

You're alright.

:cwink:

[Nightwing1977]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Black%20and%20Gray/tdksuit3xp6.jpg

That ain't too bad. But I still prefer what we got in the film thought. :word:

And $499 for that cheap ass Batsuit the guy is selling on eBay?!? You got to be kidding me. That guy is being a greedy bastard with selling a cheap costume for that much money. Some people are just a complete joke. :whatever: :whatever:

[Shoemeister]

speakin of batsuits, this is pretty horrible:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELUXE-Batman-Costume-from-1997-Val-Kilmer-Movie-LG_W0QQitemZ230176178312QQihZ013QQcategoryZ52762QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng

and look at the price this guy is selling for! truly this guy is joking.

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!! This is refrickindiculous!!!

This monstrosity brought about the following progression of emotions: :wow::woot::whatever::dry::huh::cmad::hulk:

[Luchastyle]

wow...that ebay batsuit...that's something else. that's gotta be a joke, to see who is dumb enough to buy it. there's no way that's officially licensed. and if it was, it didn't cost 500. and he says it's rare...there's obviously a reason for that. wow. he won't get a bid starting at 450. i'd bid 10 bucks just so i can get the cape and gloves, which are great, but are passable. but man...that's the worst thing ever. i would make a better one for cheaper. terrible. terrible. just terrible.

[CaptainClown]

I Want That!

[Luchastyle]

heh. it's a big rubber shirt, and a bad spaceghost mask with ears. remember from cartoon planet when andy merril would wear the spaceghost suit and dance around between segments? that's what it reminds me of.

[CaptainClown]

it reminds me of what a batcondom would look like

[Luchastyle]

that's an unpleasant thought.

[not_a_victim]

That ebay suit would look much better on a hanger or just laying on a table. He is kicking his own ass by actually putting it on...

[regwec]

*sigh* What has happened to these boards?

[CaptainClown]

kind of have to be specific with that one.

[bunk]

*sigh* What has happened to these boards?


The batsuit discussion thread remains true to it's name. Although referring to that thing on ebay as a "batsuit" is just plain insulting to batsuits everywhere.

[Hole Shot]

*sigh* What has happened to these boards?


- There's no news coming in

- All the main conversations are bloated threads where everyone is now just to trying either argue or entertain themselves

- If someone tries to start up a new thread bringing a fresh conversation to board, Morg comes in and closes it siting that somewhere in the world someone is already having a vague conversation about Batman and we don't need that thread.

[Chaos Bringer]

the re-cap ^

[Two-Face]

LMAO! It's a suit that idiot made using Batman Begins and Batman Forever parts.

Oh God...:csad:

[Nightwing1977]

The batsuit discussion thread remains true to it's name. Although referring to that thing on ebay as a "batsuit" is just plain insulting to batsuits everywhere.

Yup. Can't argue with you there.

[Nepenthes]

I like the new song by Alicia Keyes

[not_a_victim]

I had homemade dumplings for dinner...

[BatScot]

Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight (2005) ~ Scott Beatty

BATMAN’S LOOK

Even though the Ultimate Guide presents several illustrations of a ‘blue’ Batman that the LOOK itself is specifically described as “clad from head to toe in stealthy black and gray”. This statement is consistent with the idea that blue is symbolic of black. I understand the blue conceit—and it is a valid argument to a certain extent—but when I see Batman in blue I no more think it is meant to be blue anymore than I think Bruce Wayne is meant to have blue hair:

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/a/aa/Brucewayne.jpg

[Mr. Socko]

Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight (2005) ~ Scott Beatty

BATMAN’S LOOK

Even though the Ultimate Guide presents several illustrations of a ‘blue’ Batman that the LOOK itself is specifically described as “clad from head to toe in stealthy black and gray”. This statement is consistent with the idea that blue is symbolic of black. I understand the blue conceit—and it is a valid argument to a certain extent—but when I see Batman in blue I no more think it is meant to be blue anymore than I think Bruce Wayne is meant to have blue hair:

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/a/aa/Brucewayne.jpg


http://stripduke.web-log.nl/photos/uncategorized/jackpot_1.gif

[GoogleMe94]

yo, i just watched Batman forever today because i was in the mood and guess what, the sonar suit and the begins suit look WOW, very similiar. they both make the bat-actors look kinda hunky and BIG, like round. its kinda odd, but i never noticed how similiar these 2 suits really were. they are both not completely black, more armored, the cape clasps, both have huge batlogo's without the oval. only thing the sonar suit has on the begins suit is, no annoying creases, lol. and the amazing thing is, the new TDK suit looks EVEN MORE like the sonar suit then even the begins suit.

[MasterOgami]

the new TDK suit looks EVEN MORE like the sonar suit then even the begins suit.

I don't think that's possible. The Begins costume is almost -identical- to the sonar in certain areas. The DK suit is a very different design. Worlds apart.

Y'know, the sonar suit would've been pretty decent with a better cowl, abdomen, and color choice. Or even just a better cowl. Honestly, I think that's the spacehelmet Ziggy Stardust came to Earth in.

[Silver Knight]

We. Need. New. Pics.

[jimmy]

Some. people. need. to. get. laid.

[Nepenthes]

need to download new Alicia Keyes song and play it 37 times

[jimmy]

I can't stand that chick. What is the significance of 37 times?

[Nightwing1977]

I can't stand that chick. What is the significance of 37 times?

1,369. :p

[Wolfman]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.

[lujho]

Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight (2005) ~ Scott Beatty

BATMAN’S LOOK

Even though the Ultimate Guide presents several illustrations of a ‘blue’ Batman that the LOOK itself is specifically described as “clad from head to toe in stealthy black and gray”. This statement is consistent with the idea that blue is symbolic of black. I understand the blue conceit—and it is a valid argument to a certain extent—but when I see Batman in blue I no more think it is meant to be blue anymore than I think Bruce Wayne is meant to have blue hair:

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/a/aa/Brucewayne.jpg

I mostly agree with this. My basic rule of thumb is that if it's a light hearted or campy story between part of the 40s and the 60s, then the cape etc really are really blue. You can see that there's usually no attempt in these eras to make it look anything other than blue. No black shading with ink at all, usually.

Any story that's meant to be somewhat serious, then I'd say the cape is black. I've read 70s stories where even though the colouring looks blue, a caption will explicitly describe it as black.

[TheBatman072]

yo, i just watched Batman forever today because i was in the mood and guess what, the sonar suit and the begins suit look WOW, very similiar. they both make the bat-actors look kinda hunky and BIG, like round. its kinda odd, but i never noticed how similiar these 2 suits really were. they are both not completely black, more armored, the cape clasps, both have huge batlogo's without the oval. only thing the sonar suit has on the begins suit is, no annoying creases, lol. and the amazing thing is, the new TDK suit looks EVEN MORE like the sonar suit then even the begins suit.


Please. For the love of everything good, holy, and totally awesome...stop. Just. Stop.

Your shtick is old and very, very annoying. Just stop.

[TheBatman072]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.


Where'd you find that?

[Wolfman]

Where'd you find that?

Here: http://www.richafinland.com/kuvat_richa.asp

[LexCorp]

That leather suit is a little too Xmen for my liking.

[TheBatman072]

That leather suit is a little too Xmen for my liking.


That's what I thought at first. But with a few modifications, a few additions and subtractions, it'd make a good Batsuit.

[LexCorp]

That's what I thought at first. But with a few modifications, a few additions and subtractions, it'd make a good Batsuit.

Needs a good set of ears.

[bunk]

I mostly agree with this. My basic rule of thumb is that if it's a light hearted or campy story between part of the 40s and the 60s, then the cape etc really are really blue. You can see that there's usually no attempt in these eras to make it look anything other than blue. No black shading with ink at all, usually.

Any story that's meant to be somewhat serious, then I'd say the cape is black. I've read 70s stories where even though the colouring looks blue, a caption will explicitly describe it as black.


I don't see what the difference is. They're using the blue right now in the comics.

[breyfogle_rules]

If you don't like a blue Batman, you don't like Batman. Whatever the original (and hopelessly ambiguous) Kane\Finger conception was, Batman as has been solidly recognizable as being blue in AT LEAST 90% of his incarnations over the past 50 years. I'm fine with black in the movies, but in general the guy is blue.

It's ok to like him as black, but blue haters need to stop rewriting history to indulge their own suspension of disbelief.

The occassional blue gleam on a black suit is a given, but if the comics wanted him black they would have made him black. They didnt make the Black Panther blue as far as I know.

It comes down to people who enjoy the fantasy\psychedelic side verse those who live vicariously through the figure himself. That latter are the black costume crowd. I see them as being into flight simulators and Collective Soul. Things like that.

[Saint]

Uh, or they just like black, genius.

[GoogleMe94]

Please. For the love of everything good, holy, and totally awesome...stop. Just. Stop.

Your shtick is old and very, very annoying. Just stop.


shtick? what? :huh: i wasnt bashing the new suit.

[BatScot]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.
Saint... this has your mad manip skills written all over it.

[Silver Knight]

That leather suit is a little too Xmen for my liking.
My thoughts exactly.

[Crook]

If you don't like a blue Batman, you don't like Batman.
RIIIIIGGGHHHHHTTTT.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Laughing/006.gif

Whatever the original (and hopelessly ambiguous) Kane\Finger conception was, Batman as has been solidly recognizable as being blue in AT LEAST 90% of his incarnations over the past 50 years. I'm fine with black in the movies, but in general the guy is blue.

It's ok to like him as black, but blue haters need to stop rewriting history to indulge their own suspension of disbelief.

The occassional blue gleam on a black suit is a given, but if the comics wanted him black they would have made him black. They didnt make the Black Panther blue as far as I know.
Yes, they have. Plenty of times.

In comic books, blue is a very common highlight for the color of black. It's practically in every single issue released. Don't believe me, then look at the color of people's hair. I guarantee over half of them have the blue highlights.

[BatScot]

If you don't like a blue Batman, you don't like Batman.Well that’s just ridiculous.

Whatever the original (and hopelessly ambiguous) Kane\Finger conception was.The only ambiguity is whether or not Kane had anything to do with it, but whatever the case the “original” intent was unequivocally black.

blue haters need to stop rewriting history to indulge their own suspension of disbelief.Quoting and citing historical documents and records as I have done is not rewriting history, it is a declaration of that history.

[Wolfman]

Saint... this has your mad manip skills written all over it.
My thoughts exatly. Or someone should do a manip using that. I'm still too lazy.

[Lobster Charlie]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.

I dunno man...look at all the creases!

[TromaFreak64]

RIIIIIGGGHHHHHTTTT.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Laughing/006.gif


Yes, they have. Plenty of times.

In comic books, blue is a very common highlight for the color of black. It's practically in every single issue released. Don't believe me, then look at the color of people's hair. I guarantee over half of them have the blue highlights.

Exactly....

[Wolfman]

I dunno man...look at all the creases!
Ahhahahahahahhha! Yeah, but atleast teh pants aren't puffy! :woot:

[Nightwing1977]

If you don't like a blue Batman, you don't like Batman.

Please don't use that "If you don't like this, you're not a fan" crap. It just dumb. Not everyone like blue on Batman. I prefer just all black or black & dark gray. Blue is just a bright color & I prefer darker color, since he is the Dark Knight after all.

It's ok to like him as black, but blue haters need to stop rewriting history to indulge their own suspension of disbelief.

Blue is fine for the comics, not the movies. Plus, blue is my fav. color. :p

The occassional blue gleam on a black suit is a given, but if the comics wanted him black they would have made him black. They didnt make the Black Panther blue as far as I know.

Wasn't his suit black instead of blue not too long ago?

[batsone]

for the blue and grey lovers out there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/batsone/nealbatblue.jpg

[CConn]

I mostly agree with this. My basic rule of thumb is that if it's a light hearted or campy story between part of the 40s and the 60s, then the cape etc really are really blue. You can see that there's usually no attempt in these eras to make it look anything other than blue. No black shading with ink at all, usually.

Any story that's meant to be somewhat serious, then I'd say the cape is black. I've read 70s stories where even though the colouring looks blue, a caption will explicitly describe it as black.
That's actually a pretty good rule of thumb.

[CConn]

for the blue and grey lovers out there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/batsone/nealbatblue.jpg
For some reason, I've always hated navy blue, yet loved the brighter blue on Batman. :confused:

[CConn]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.
Whenever I see something like that, I can't help but wonder why Nolan ever went with rubber in the first place. I mean, that suit, just by itself, does everything the TDK - and even the BB - suit does visually, plus looks a lot more flexible, and viable as a crime fighting uniform.

[batsone]

that was my attempt at a neal adams style suit, and i figgured since the storys were dark, the blue should be aswell. i however prefer the black and grey but nolan didnt ask me....jerk. jk/nolan

[bunk]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.

"Hey Alfred... could you zip me up?"

[Hole Shot]

About the suit, maybe Batman oughta use leather, something like this maybe:
http://www.richafinland.com/images/kuvapankki_low/force%202%20suit-black-UL%20copy.jpg
Just put the armour under that suit or something. But whatever.


NO! I have one of those and I really would not recommend fighting crime in it. Very hot, very heavy and the primary purpose is to prevent all your flesh from being ripped off your body. Wouldn't be much better than a one piece rubber suit. And it can't stop bullets.

Nolan's suits are body armor with flexibility in the joints to allow free range of motion. In a comic film, I think they've done a good job trying to create suits that look functional and not just about looks like Burton and Schumacher.

[CConn]

NO! I have one of those and I really would not recommend fighting crime in it. Very hot, very heavy and the primary purpose is to prevent all your flesh from being ripped off your body. Wouldn't be much better than a one piece rubber suit. And it can't stop bullets.The TDK suit can't stop bullets either. :confused:

It's also very hot, very heavy, and has no primary purpose.

[Hole Shot]

The TDK suit can't stop bullets either. :confused:

It's also very hot, very heavy, and has no primary purpose.

I think we confuse what it actually looks versus how it's going to look on film. Like how in the leaked photos it looked like a big heavy mess, but in a production quality shot it look very light and sleek. And those who saw the WW footage all said that his ability to move in the new suit extremely noticeable.

[CConn]

I think we confuse what it actually looks versus how it's going to look on film. Like how in the leaked photos it looked like a big heavy mess, but in a production quality shot it look very light and sleek. And those who saw the WW footage all said that his ability to move in the new suit extremely noticeable.
But you were comparing the motorcycle's suit's actual quality and function against TDK's imaginary quality and function. If you can interject the fantasy that the TDK suit can stop bullets, you can interject the fantasy that that motorcycle suit can stop bullets too.

[jimmy]

The TDK suit can't stop bullets either. :confused:


Doesn't it? Didn't someone say it was titanium plated with a kevlar by weave with a chainmail under-suit?

[CConn]

If they made that for a movie, TDK's costume designer is insanely stupid.

[Hole Shot]

But you were comparing the motorcycle's suit's actual quality and function against TDK's imaginary quality and function. If you can interject the fantasy that the TDK suit can stop bullets, you can interject the fantasy that that motorcycle suit can stop bullets too.


It's leather though, I mean is Nolan then going to have Lucius explain the bullet proof leather they were developing? Bale's suits are really supposed to be simply rubber, they're Kevlar body armor which most people are aware exists.

If they made that for a movie, TDK's costume designer is insanely stupid.


Why? I don't think it's actual chainmail, it's a mesh. If he's wearing medieval armor underneath the batsuit, then yes that would be stupid.

[jimmy]

If they made that for a movie, TDK's costume designer is insanely stupid.

I don't know, man. . . I'm just going by stuff I've read on here.

[CConn]

It's leather though, I mean is Nolan then going to have Lucius explain the bullet proof leather they were developing? Bale's suits are really supposed to be simply rubber, they're Kevlar body armor which most people are aware exists.It'd be no harder to explain bulletproof kevlar fabric than it was to explain the bulletproof kevlar rubber.

By the way, this is a secret, but everyone knows the Batsuit in BB is really just a hunk of rubber.

You're not thinking objectively here, man; stop thinking up excuses of why the TDK suit is better than anything else in the world, and just accept the facts as they are; it would be totally possible to do a fabric suit that's just as realistic and believable as the rubber/armor suits. That doesn't mean you can't love the TDK suit, that doesn't mean the TDK suit isn't awesome, that simply means there's other ways of doing things.
Why? I don't think it's actual chainmail, it's a mesh. If he's wearing medieval armor underneath the batsuit, then yes that would be stupid.I meant if they actually constructed the suit like that. It's great to say it's there, for it to "be there" in the movie, but, ultimately, it should be - and is - just a costume for a movie. It's only purpose is to look good.

[Hole Shot]

You're not thinking objectively here, man; stop thinking up excuses of why the TDK suit is better than anything else in the world, and just accept the facts as they are; it would be totally possible to do a fabric suit that's just as realistic and believable as the rubber/armor suits. That doesn't mean you can't love the TDK suit, that doesn't mean the TDK suit isn't awesome, that simply means there's other ways of doing things.

Honestly, I'm not sold on the new suit yet. I think it looks cool in a couple shots, but it has looked atrocious in other shots.

However, I can't accept a fabric suit. I love the look of Batman in comics and animation, but I can't picture that taken literally in live action. Maybe a middle ground can be found, but anything like I've seen in Dead End or at Comic Con would look fruity in a movie.

That's not too say it could never work, but it take a different approach to the visual style. For example, I've thought that DKR would be great film to make in a similar fashion as Sin City and I only picture Batman in a more faithful look.

[CaptainClown]

It's leather though, I mean is Nolan then going to have Lucius explain the bullet proof leather they were developing? Bale's suits are really supposed to be simply rubber, they're Kevlar body armor which most people are aware exists.




Why? I don't think it's actual chainmail, it's a mesh. If he's wearing medieval armor underneath the batsuit, then yes that would be stupid.
they have been breeding cows by feeding them kevlar thus making the ultimate leather and makes you feel and look sexy.

It is something that screams daddy likes leather or leather daddy

[CConn]

Honestly, I'm not sold on the new suit yet. I think it looks cool in a couple shots, but it has looked atrocious in other shots.

However, I can't accept a fabric suit. I love the look of Batman in comics and animation, but I can't picture that taken literally in live action. Maybe a middle ground can be found, but anything like I've seen in Dead End or at Comic Con would look fruity in a movie....which is why that dude just proposed a leather suit be used.

[CConn]

Honestly, I'm not sold on the new suit yet. I think it looks cool in a couple shots, but it has looked atrocious in other shots.

However, I can't accept a fabric suit. I love the look of Batman in comics and animation, but I can't picture that taken literally in live action. Maybe a middle ground can be found, but anything like I've seen in Dead End or at Comic Con would look fruity in a movie.You have to remember though, the production quality of a movie costume is FAR superior to that of a fan film or fan-made costume. The difference is just night and day in most cases.

For instance:


http://www.hyperborea.org/photos/comic-con-2004/cosplay/img006.jpeg

Compared to:

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/spider_man_3/tobey_maguire/spiderman28.jpg

Now, if you only saw the first pic, you'd think "Oh my god, it's horrible! It's campy! It's ridiculous!" Which, it is. Partially because it was made by some dude in his basement (just like the Batman fan-made costumes are).

Yet, as is obvious, the second suit is a totally different story. That works. It looks cool, not campy. It looks professional, not amateur. And that makes all the difference.

Now I'm not saying a Batman costume would or should look exactly like the Spider-Man costume or anything like that, but that gives you an idea of just how dramatically better real movie costumes are to fan made ones.

[roach]

agreed

[Wolfman]

NO! I have one of those and I really would not recommend fighting crime in it. Very hot, very heavy and the primary purpose is to prevent all your flesh from being ripped off your body. Wouldn't be much better than a one piece rubber suit. And it can't stop bullets.

That's just dump. You could propably say that about the dark knight suit too. Sure it's X-Menish, but with little tweaks (like making it sleeker or whatever) it would look great. It looks great even as it is! And to say that it's not good for fighting crime, well neither is cape for that matter. Bale said in some interview that if he were to go fight crime, he wouldn't put on a cape. But fook it, we can only hope that in the third installment the suit is closer to the comics.

But hey, all you who are making Batman fan films! USE LEATHER! No rubber! Use rubber only when you have sex. And not even then, IF you know the person you are having sex with (if you don't know the person very well, use rubber kids, keeps you safe from unwated diseases), and you are both okay not using rubber. Or if she is using birthcontrol pills. Or if you want to have a baby.

[JBrown437]

You have to remember though, the production quality of a movie costume is FAR superior to that of a fan film or fan-made costume. The difference is just night and day in most cases.

For instance:


http://www.hyperborea.org/photos/comic-con-2004/cosplay/img006.jpeg

Compared to:

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/spider_man_3/tobey_maguire/spiderman28.jpg

Now, if you only saw the first pic, you'd think "Oh my god, it's horrible! It's campy! It's ridiculous!" Which, it is. Partially because it was made by some dude in his basement (just like the Batman fan-made costumes are).

Yet, as is obvious, the second suit is a totally different story. That works. It looks cool, not campy. It looks professional, not amateur. And that makes all the difference.

Now I'm not saying a Batman costume would or should look exactly like the Spider-Man costume or anything like that, but that gives you an idea of just how dramatically better real movie costumes are to fan made ones.

Movie costumes also are photographed with much better cameras.

[CConn]

Movie costumes also are photographed with much better cameras.
That's true.

But it's also the actual production of the costumes themselves.

[Mr. Socko]

If you don't like a blue Batman, you don't like Batman. Whatever the original (and hopelessly ambiguous) Kane\Finger conception was, Batman as has been solidly recognizable as being blue in AT LEAST 90% of his incarnations over the past 50 years. I'm fine with black in the movies, but in general the guy is blue.

It's ok to like him as black, but blue haters need to stop rewriting history to indulge their own suspension of disbelief.

The occassional blue gleam on a black suit is a given, but if the comics wanted him black they would have made him black. They didnt make the Black Panther blue as far as I know.

It comes down to people who enjoy the fantasy\psychedelic side verse those who live vicariously through the figure himself. That latter are the black costume crowd. I see them as being into flight simulators and Collective Soul. Things like that.

Well now your ignorance is really showing.

[CaptainClown]

Its like saying your either for this war or aren't. Black and White no room for grey

[Wams]

http://comicartfans.com/Images/Category_8734/subcat_48290/d%20williams%20bat%20and%20cats.jpg
:word:

[Devan]

WTF is with his logo?

[Wams]

WTF is with his logo?
??? WTF is ... with U?
:huh:

[Devan]

It's like 3d-ish. I've never seen that design before.

[Wams]

It's like 3d-ish. I've never seen that design before.

The movies never did a "3d-ish" Bat logo before?
Have you seen the movies at all?:huh:

This is just yet another interpitation of that...

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/nwonknu2k/Batmansmooth-gif-small.gif

No biggie.

:word:

[Mr. Socko]

I don't like that symbol much, don't like the Begins symbol either to tell the truth. I think it's too small, although perfect for throwing stars. Just not for the Bat-suit.

[Devan]

I don't really care for that one either, but wasn't the begins logo just jim lee style?

[Mr. Socko]

Yeah, the Jim Lee logo was only on the bat-suit though(the way I liked it best). The Begins symbol was everywhere else.

http://www.batmanytb.com/movies/batmanbegins/gadgets/bataranga.jpg
Begins logo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/bigshow321/Batman/5zgv1g.jpg
Variation of the Lee logo

[Devan]

Ah, I thought you were talking about the suit logo; which is perfect, IMO. 'Tis a shame they are replacing it for the little logo.

[lujho]

Its like saying your either for this war or aren't. Black and White no room for grey

No! Blue and grey, no room for black! :)

OR Black and grey, no room for blue!

[Baba Ghanoush]

One thing I hate about the new suit is how bad the symbol looks on the chest.

[Hole Shot]

http://www.batmanytb.com/movies/batmanbegins/gadgets/bataranga.jpg
Begins logo.

You know, a gold emblem like that wouldn't look too bad on the black suits. It might make him look a little like a ghetto Cadillac Escalade but not too much.

The reason I bring up the gold emblem is because of the contrast to the black. I know it's more a thing associated with The Punisher, but Batman (also totally mortal like Castle) has mentioned the same thing about the symbol being a target to draw fire away from his face and towards the meat of his body armor.

[BatScot]

You have to remember though, the production quality of a movie costume is FAR superior to that of a fan film or fan-made costume. The difference is just night and day in most cases.

For instance:


http://www.hyperborea.org/photos/comic-con-2004/cosplay/img006.jpeg

Compared to:

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/spider_man_3/tobey_maguire/spiderman28.jpg

Now, if you only saw the first pic, you'd think "Oh my god, it's horrible! It's campy! It's ridiculous!" Which, it is. Partially because it was made by some dude in his basement (just like the Batman fan-made costumes are).

Yet, as is obvious, the second suit is a totally different story. That works. It looks cool, not campy. It looks professional, not amateur. And that makes all the difference.

Now I'm not saying a Batman costume would or should look exactly like the Spider-Man costume or anything like that, but that gives you an idea of just how dramatically better real movie costumes are to fan made ones.

That's (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=9551310&postcount=43) an excellent (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=10086620&postcount=1981) observation :up:

Just look at Dead End, seeing a guy put on a long sleeve t-shirt to go fight crime is ridiculous.Ah, so your basing your entire argument on a nickel-and-dime costume from a low budget fan film?

Had people adhered to such faulty logic then Raimi’s Spider-Man would never have been made because the costume was stylistically similar to the crappy TV version…

http://spiderman-web.com/spiderman/wallpaper/70spiderman/spidermanpic.jpg

… and yet look at the difference the quality of method and material can make:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Spider-Man/29d5a006.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Spider-Man/2068d75d.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Spider-Man/953b9258.jpg

Think what you will about the Dead End suit, but it was no worse than the Spiderman costume from the '70s TV series... but if your mind can only conceive of the lowest form of a thing then more the pity, I can imagine something far greater—the quality of the Raimi Spider-Man costume translated to the Batman comic image.

While some of you are stans for seeing the EXACT same thing you see on the comic page as on the big screen, it just is visually dull Again, how is Black&Gray more visually dull than black?

and at the same time wouldn't be believeable for a billionaire to go out in minimal protection such as that.This is an error made only by those who oppose a traditional approach. No one in favor of a more comic-styled approach suggests that Batman not be armored or that the Dead End suit be taken off Bartram and put on Bale. The implication behind your statement expresses an inability (or reluctance) to accept that the Dead End costume and/or traditional-styled manips are only the starting point, a suggestion of concept, not the final product. It is the inability to see the quality of effort apparent in one thing (e.g., the Spider-Man film costume) being applied to another (the Dead End suit), and similarly, that the Spider-Man film costume is vastly superior to the Spiderman TV costume and that the same would be true of the Dead End suit if the same quality of the Spider-Man costume was applied.

[Nightwing1977]

I don't really care for that one either, but wasn't the begins logo just jim lee style?

Yep. The first time I pay attention to the symbol, my mind scream "Jim Lee". Even a friend of mine who is a big Jim Lee fan agree. Personally, I kinda like it. It just cool they use part of his look on the Begins. So much for it doesn't look like the comics. :D :D

[Hobodeluxe]

You know, a gold emblem like that wouldn't look too bad on the black suits. It might make him look a little like a ghetto Cadillac Escalade but not too much.

The reason I bring up the gold emblem is because of the contrast to the black. I know it's more a thing associated with The Punisher, but Batman (also totally mortal like Castle) has mentioned the same thing about the symbol being a target to draw fire away from his face and towards the meat of his body armor.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2780/rcbatmanfignewxd6.jpg

[Mr. Socko]

Ah, I thought you were talking about the suit logo; which is perfect, IMO. 'Tis a shame they are replacing it for the little logo.


Oh, I agree. The Jim Lee logo on the suit was perfect. I don't like the Begins symbol on the suit much. It just seems too small.

[Hole Shot]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2780/rcbatmanfignewxd6.jpg

Might be alone in my opinion, but I like that! Thanks Hobo.

[SolidSnakeMGS]

I know its just a figure but I am liking the new batsuit less and less :csad:

[Hole Shot]

I know its just a figure but I am liking the new batsuit less and less :csad:


To be fair the original photo of that figure looks hideous to being with, it looked like Tron. And the pic above is manip over manip, etc. If I looked at it as it is, then no it doesn't look that good at all, but I try to visual it in the context of on screen.

[jimmy]

Like I said a while ago, It's the Bat-Suit meets Solid Snake's sneaking suit.

[thegameq]

You have to remember though, the production quality of a movie costume is FAR superior to that of a fan film or fan-made costume. The difference is just night and day in most cases.

For instance:


http://www.hyperborea.org/photos/comic-con-2004/cosplay/img006.jpeg

Compared to:

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/spider_man_3/tobey_maguire/spiderman28.jpg

Now, if you only saw the first pic, you'd think "Oh my god, it's horrible! It's campy! It's ridiculous!" Which, it is. Partially because it was made by some dude in his basement (just like the Batman fan-made costumes are).

Yet, as is obvious, the second suit is a totally different story. That works. It looks cool, not campy. It looks professional, not amateur. And that makes all the difference.

Now I'm not saying a Batman costume would or should look exactly like the Spider-Man costume or anything like that, but that gives you an idea of just how dramatically better real movie costumes are to fan made ones.

This post has been long overdue on these boards. A fabric suit done by a big budget design house would be stunning. The problem of course is that it would take the character back to the realm of fantasy from which he came and less so out of the psuedo-realism Nolan created.

God forbid we get another fantasy version of Batman....it'll be all campy, fruity, cartoony and silly of course...

[BatScot]

This post has been long overdue on these boards... Long (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=9551310&postcount=43) overdue (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=10086620&postcount=1981)?

this one's from 2005Just look at Dead End, seeing a guy put on a long sleeve t-shirt to go fight crime is ridiculous.Ah, so your basing your entire argument on a nickel-and-dime costume from a low budget fan film?

Had people adhered to such faulty logic then Raimi’s Spider-Man would never have been made because the costume was stylistically similar to the crappy TV version…

http://spiderman-web.com/spiderman/wallpaper/70spiderman/spidermanpic.jpg

… and yet look at the difference the quality of method and material can make:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Spider-Man/29d5a006.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Spider-Man/2068d75d.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Spider-Man/953b9258.jpg

Think what you will about the Dead End suit, but it was no worse than the Spiderman costume from the '70s TV series... but if your mind can only conceive of the lowest form of a thing then more the pity, I can imagine something far greater—the quality of the Raimi Spider-Man costume translated to the Batman comic image.

and at the same time wouldn't be believeable for a billionaire to go out in minimal protection such as that.This is an error made only by those who oppose a traditional approach. No one in favor of a more comic-styled approach suggests that Batman not be armored or that the Dead End suit be taken off Bartram and put on Bale. The implication behind your statement expresses an inability (or reluctance) to accept that the Dead End costume and/or traditional-styled manips are only the starting point, a suggestion of concept, not the final product. It is the inability to see the quality of effort apparent in one thing (e.g., the Spider-Man film costume) being applied to another (the Dead End suit), and similarly, that the Spider-Man film costume is vastly superior to the Spiderman TV costume and that the same would be true of the Dead End suit if the same quality of the Spider-Man costume was applied.

[Mr. Socko]

Well said Batscot...you too Cconn

[Wams]

The New Bat suit is basically
This suit all over again http://www.duneinfo.com/arrakis/stillsuits.asp
Mixed with the Green Goblin suit.
In fact..Its made by the same team.....Weak.:whatever:

[Hole Shot]

This post has been long overdue on these boards. A fabric suit done by a big budget design house would be stunning. The problem of course is that it would take the character back to the realm of fantasy from which he came and less so out of the psuedo-realism Nolan created.

God forbid we get another fantasy version of Batman....it'll be all campy, fruity, cartoony and silly of course...

The spidey debate doesn't fly with me, for the exact reasons you gave in the last sentence. That's why a faithful version of Spidey's suit works, because of the character and the spirit of the film is totally different from Batman. Spidey doesn't need body armor because of this powers and the way he moves, nor does he need to be in dark colors because isn't grim and lurking in the shadows and only coming out at night.

No one here is going to convince me other wise and I don't think I'm going to convince those that disagree with me. On film and only on film, I only see Batman in black. It looks better and it just makes sense. A prior statement I made in this thread is that, Batman movies have been made for nearly 20 years. You don't think any of the costume designers atleast experimented with the look of the comic books?

In a comic book you can throw out the rules, but on film you're talking to a much a bigger audience. You're already selling the idea of a powerless superhero that dresses up as a bat, putting him in cloth and light colors when he's supposed to be a symbol of fear in the darkness takes a lot of gun fire is a much bigger stretch. And don't play the realism card, because I'd have this stance talking about Burton's movies.

You'll accept the comic look because you're a fan of the comic but the majority of the people spending money at the cinema aren't. So do you go with style that really looks better on celluloid that both groups will accept in the end or the style only that only a small minority in audience is actually rooting for?

Maybe in a more light hearted context his comic book look could work, but I don't want to see that type of Batman movie. I've already said that in a style similar Sin City, I could see it in that, but we're not getting that either.

And finally, CConn's post comparing the fan suits and versus the actual movie suit was in response to me making fun of Dead End and the Glitter Boy at Comic Con. The only reason I brought those two suits up was because several in the spandex camp used those as examples that that look is already proven to work.

[Mercurius]

No one here is going to convince me other wise and I don't think I'm going to convince those that disagree with me. On film and only on film, I only see Batman in black.

You'll accept the comic look because you're a fan of the comic but the majority of the people spending money at the cinema aren't. So do you go with style that really looks better on celluloid that both groups will accept in the end or the style only that only a small minority in audience is actually rooting for?


I won't try to convince you of something you don't want to be convinced of, but consider that making Batman all black doesn't mean making him armoured in such a busy look like the TDK one.

And the comparison of the two fabric costumes is a debate killer, anyway: it proves the thing can be done successfully. :hyper:

[CConn]

The spidey debate doesn't fly with me, for the exact reasons you gave in the last sentence. That's why a faithful version of Spidey's suit works, because of the character and the spirit of the film is totally different from BatmanBody armor doesn't even come into this discussion. That's not what this is about. As by now we should all know that fabric body armor does exist and that, in in the fabric-suited comics, Batman is said to be wearing armor.

This is purely about the look of the suit. If you think it's anything else but that, you're just greatly confuse and should exit the discussion until you've gained enough insight into it to actually contribute something.
Spidey doesn't need body armor because of this powers and the way he moves, nor does he need to be in dark colors because isn't grim and lurking in the shadows and only coming out at night.Which is why I'd have no problem with an all-black fabric suit.
No one here is going to convince me other wiseThen there's something wrong with you. As there's actual factual evidence that fabric-based ballistics armor does exist in the real world. And to think that that can't or shouldn't be adapted to the fantasy world of a superhero film, is pure lunacy. It's not opinion, it's idiocy.

and I don't think I'm going to convince those that disagree with me. On film and only on film, I only see Batman in black. It looks better and it just makes sense. A prior statement I made in this thread is that, Batman movies have been made for nearly 20 years. You don't think any of the costume designers atleast experimented with the look of the comic books?There's no evidence that they have. Don't you think that, if they did design some type of grey and black suit, there would have been at least ONE picture of it floating around somewhere? We have pictures of failed Batmobile concepts. We have pictures of failed Robin costume concepts. Why haven't we ever seen a single picture or sketch of a grey and black suit if it has, supposedly, been developed at some point?
In a comic book you can throw out the rules,You obviously haven't read comics in a while then. Many comics are totally reality-based - as much, if not more, than most movies.

Not to mention, as I already pointed out, the comics have stated COUNTLESS times that, underneath a fabric suit, Batman wears layers and layers of protection and body armor. How is that not realistic?

but on film you're talking to a much a bigger audience. You're already selling the idea of a powerless superhero that dresses up as a bat, putting him in cloth and light colors when he's supposed to be a symbol of fear in the darkness takes a lot of gun fire is a much bigger stretch. And don't play the realism card, because I'd have this stance talking about Burton's movies.Yes, a guy running around in a fabric dark gray/black suit with a ****load of armor underneath is WAY too unbelievable for any large audience to accept but, hey, a movie will giant robots that turn into cars from out space is PERFECTLY logical.

You're being ridiculous. You're argument is ridiculous. You're ignoring facts and logics that anyone in their right mind would clearly see just so you don't have to concede the infinitesimally small admittance that it is indeed possible for Batman to have a fabric costume in the movies. Not a gray suit. Not a suit without any armor. But a fabric one.

You'll accept the comic look because you're a fan of the comic but the majority of the people spending money at the cinema aren't. So do you go with style that really looks better on celluloid that both groups will accept in the end or the style only that only a small minority in audience is actually rooting for?Again, giant robots from outerspace that can turn into cars.

Besides, you have ABSOLUTELY no proof WHATSOEVER that the general audience wouldn't or couldn't accept a fabric Batman suit. Again, it's GOING to be armored, it could very well be jet black, it'd simply be fabric.

I mean, what do you think Navy SEALs are wearing? What do you think SWAT teams are wearing? Are they wearing rubber scuba suits? No, they're wearing FABRIC with armor underneath it. If that can happen in the REAL WORLD. If liquid bulletproof armor can exist in the REAL WORLD. Why in God's name wouldn't people be able to accept that in a FICTIONAL, FANTASY-BASED film

[Mr. Socko]

A prior statement I made in this thread is that, Batman movies have been made for nearly 20 years. You don't think any of the costume designers atleast experimented with the look of the comic books?

Of'course not. Burton said in the special edition of Batman'89 that as soon as they began production, he decided on a monochromatic black rubber suit. He's stated that a tight material, nor blue, nor even grey were even possibly considered. A black rubber suit was the first and only thought. Every film after his has simply followed suit.

I would address the rest of your post but Cconn already has, and we both know you won't be convinced otherwise, so I'd only be wasting my time.

[Hole Shot]

Body armor doesn't even come into this discussion. That's not what this is about. As by now we should all know that fabric body armor does exist and that, in in the fabric-suited comics, Batman is said to be wearing armor.

This is purely about the look of the suit. If you think it's anything else but that, you're just greatly confuse and should exit the discussion until you've gained enough insight into it to actually contribute something.
Which is why I'd have no problem with an all-black fabric suit.
Then there's something wrong with you. As there's actual factual evidence that fabric-based ballistics armor does exist in the real world. And to think that that can't or shouldn't be adapted to the fantasy world of a superhero film, is pure lunacy. It's not opinion, it's idiocy.

There's no evidence that they have. Don't you think that, if they did design some type of grey and black suit, there would have been at least ONE picture of it floating around somewhere? We have pictures of failed Batmobile concepts. We have pictures of failed Robin costume concepts. Why haven't we ever seen a single picture or sketch of a grey and black suit if it has, supposedly, been developed at some point?
You obviously haven't read comics in a while then. Many comics are totally reality-based - as much, if not more, than most movies.

Not to mention, as I already pointed out, the comics have stated COUNTLESS times that, underneath a fabric suit, Batman wears layers and layers of protection and body armor. How is that not realistic?

Yes, a guy running around in a fabric dark gray/black suit with a ****load of armor underneath is WAY too unbelievable for any large audience to accept but, hey, a movie will giant robots that turn into cars from out space is PERFECTLY logical.

You're being ridiculous. You're argument is ridiculous. You're ignoring facts and logics that anyone in their right mind would clearly see just so you don't have to concede the infinitesimally small admittance that it is indeed possible for Batman to have a fabric costume in the movies. Not a gray suit. Not a suit without any armor. But a fabric one.

Again, giant robots from outerspace that can turn into cars.

Besides, you have ABSOLUTELY no proof WHATSOEVER that the general audience wouldn't or couldn't accept a fabric Batman suit. Again, it's GOING to be armored, it could very well be jet black, it'd simply be fabric.

I mean, what do you think Navy SEALs are wearing? What do you think SWAT teams are wearing? Are they wearing rubber scuba suits? No, they're wearing FABRIC with armor underneath it. If that can happen in the REAL WORLD. If liquid bulletproof armor can exist in the REAL WORLD. Why in God's name wouldn't people be able to accept that in a FICTIONAL, FANTASY-BASED film

Wait. I'm arguing in favor of all black as opposed to black/blue & grey tights. You're talking about body armor, that was a couple conversations ago where all I said is that I preferred the rubber over a leather look. Body armor or bullet proof fabric, I just want an all black suit.

P.S. You got way to emotional over this. After I already said I wasn't out to change anyone's mind, just state where my opinion and where I stood.

P.P.S. I was just on the phone with my buddy in SEAL Team 1, he wears his armor on the outside, and on occasion he does in fact wear a rubber scuba suit :)

[Noir]

Someone do an manip of Blue and Grey Batman and tell me it doesn't look totally gay.. Unless they manip it to be the Neal Adams costume, in which it would be badass..


Has any fan-film even used the Blue?

[CConn]

Wait. I'm arguing in favor of all black as opposed to black/blue & grey tights. You're talking about body armor, that was a couple conversations ago where all I said is that I preferred the rubber over a leather look. Body armor or bullet proof fabric, I just want an all black suit.Then just say that; I prefer rubber over leather. I prefer black over gray. Those are statements that can't be proven wrong, that can't even be argued with.

When you start trying to come up with logic to back up your preferences, that's when it gets dicey...especially since you don't need any logic to back up your preferences. You like rubber? That's perfectly fine. That's fantastic. I can't disagree with that. But if you start talking about how so and so would never accept anything other than rubber, that's where I'd disagree.
P.S. You got way to emotional over this. After I already said I wasn't out to change anyone's mind, just state where my opinion and where I stood.I've get emotional over this because this is, honestly, the 20th time I've had this exact same argument with someone.
P.P.S. I was just on the phone with my buddy in SEAL Team 1, he wears his armor on the outside, and on occasion he does in fact wear a rubber scuba suit :)And when Batman is underwater, he can wear a rubber scuba suit too.

But I would like to see what type of armor he has. I mean, the kevlar and ceramic plating that the military uses 99% of the time is always...well, kevlar is fiber itself, so...

[TheBatman072]

Someone do an manip of Blue and Grey Batman and tell me it doesn't look totally gay.. Unless they manip it to be the Neal Adams costume, in which it would be badass..


Has any fan-film even used the Blue?


Grayson.

[Noir]

Grayson.
Wasn't he ****ing dead in that trailer?

[Devan]

I thought so.:huh:

[Hole Shot]

When you start trying to come up with logic to back up your preferences, that's when it gets dicey...especially since you don't need any logic to back up your preferences. You like rubber? That's perfectly fine. That's fantastic. I can't disagree with that. But if you start talking about how so and so would never accept anything other than rubber, that's where I'd disagree.
I've get emotional over this because this is, honestly, the 20th time I've had this exact same argument with someone.



QUIT TALKING ABOUT RUBBER!!!!

Go read my post again. This, right here was my whole point:
On film and only on film, I only see Batman in black. It looks better and it just makes sense.

I didn't say anything about rubber or fabric, etc. I said I'm opposed to "cloth and light colors" And cloth as in, it's just cloth. The only thing I'm not budging about is being all black on film.

Besides, you have ABSOLUTELY no proof WHATSOEVER that the general audience wouldn't or couldn't accept a fabric Batman suit. Again, it's GOING to be armored, it could very well be jet black, it'd simply be fabric.

And I'm totally fine with that.

Once again, I only once mentioned the preference to rubber over leather when we were looking at the motorcycle suit and after you made your points in response to my comments I didn't respond because I accepted what you had to say.

Yes, a guy running around in a fabric dark gray/black suit with a ****load of armor underneath is WAY too unbelievable for any large audience to accept but, hey, a movie will giant robots that turn into cars from out space is PERFECTLY logical.

Giant robots from space. Not earth cars that had their parents killed so they decided to turn into robots and begin a war on crime.

You obviously haven't read comics in a while then. Many comics are totally reality-based - as much, if not more, than most movies.

Not to mention, as I already pointed out, the comics have stated COUNTLESS times that, underneath a fabric suit, Batman wears layers and layers of protection and body armor. How is that not realistic?

Did you not read my post asking about trying the suit with a gold emblem? My reasoning behind that? It was to create a target on his chest directing gunfire away from his face and towards his body armor. Where did I think of that?! Couldn't of been on of them funny books, y'all read!

You're being ridiculous. You're argument is ridiculous. You're ignoring facts and logics that anyone in their right mind would clearly see just so you don't have to concede the infinitesimally small admittance that it is indeed possible for Batman to have a fabric costume in the movies. Not a gray suit. Not a suit without any armor. But a fabric one.

You're being ridiculous and you're argument is ridiculous because it's all base on the idea that you read my mind and found that I refused to ever accept a fabric suit when my primary concern is only color.

[Noir]

I thought so.:huh:
Did they embalm batman? If so, didn't someone go: "Wait one ****ing minute, thats Bruce Wayne."

[jimmy]

Ladies, we must stop quarreling amongst ourselves so that we can conjure up new theories about TDK.

[Noir]

in TDK, batman and the Red Hood will have an epic lightsabre battle on the Chemical Waste planet, Redhood will fall of the last piece of dry rock and get badly disfigured, then the Emperor will augment him with Cybernetic technology.

[Hole Shot]

in TDK, batman and the Red Hood will have an epic lightsabre battle on the Chemical Waste planet, Redhood will fall of the last piece of dry rock and get badly disfigured, then the Emperor will augment him with Cybernetic technology.

Is that what happened in The Killing Joke? I have to ask because apparently I don't read comics.

[jimmy]

Is that what happened in The Killing Joke? I have to ask because apparently I don't read comics.

In the Killing Joke: The Joker cripples and rapes batgirl and tries to drive Gordon insane. Batman catches him and the Joker tells him "The Killing Joke".

[Noir]

Is that what happened in The Killing Joke? I have to ask because apparently I don't read comics.Yeah, anyone else who tells you differently is lying. Barbra Gordon is also paralyzed in TKJ but only because she ate some bad Tuna. And Comish Gordon doesn't even appear in the book because he is off fighting communists and robots in Asia.. God damn Commies.

[Hole Shot]

Yeah, anyone else who tells you differently is lying. Barbra Gordon is also paralyzed in TKJ but only because she ate some bad Tuna. And Comish Gordon doesn't even appear in the book because he is off fighting communists and robots in Asia.. God damn Commies.


Wait, but what about the part with the Wookies and Macauley Culkin everyone talks about in The Man Who Laughs thread?

[CConn]

QUIT TALKING ABOUT RUBBER!!!!

Go read my post again. This, right here was my whole point:

I didn't say anything about rubber or fabric, etc. I said I'm opposed to "cloth and light colors" And cloth as in, it's just cloth. The only thing I'm not budging about is being all black on film.You miss my point; it doesn't matter what it is that you like; simply that you like it, and that I have no problem with that.
And I'm totally fine with that.

Once again, I only once mentioned the preference to rubber over leather when we were looking at the motorcycle suit and after you made your points in response to my comments I didn't respond because I accepted what you had to say.And that statement, frankly, always confused me. If you think rubber looks better, I get it. But you said leather wasn't good because it's hot and not bulletproof. ...neither is rubber. :confused: Very confusing. To me, at least. Unless you were being comical or something.
Giant robots from space. Not earth cars that had their parents killed so they decided to turn into robots and begin a war on crime.Whatever point you tried to make there, you failed utterly.
You're being ridiculous and you're argument is ridiculous because it's all base on the idea that you read my mind and found that I refused to ever accept a fabric suit when my primary concern is only color.Uhhh...

"I can't accept a fabric suit." (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12900132&postcount=13539)

[Saint]

Yeah, the Jim Lee logo was only on the bat-suit though(the way I liked it best). The Begins symbol was everywhere else.

http://www.batmanytb.com/movies/batmanbegins/gadgets/bataranga.jpg
Begins logo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/bigshow321/Batman/5zgv1g.jpg
Variation of the Lee logo
The Lee logo? Ugh. Why is everything that appears in a comic by Jim Lee assumed to have been originated by him? Hell, I've heard people refer to the way he draws Superman's collar as the "Lee collar," as if he invented the idea of aligning the collar with Superman's damn collarbone. Before you say "Chill out, buddy!" (the stock response to posts of mine), know that I'm not trying to chew you out here. This is a general response to a trend in fans these days.

For the record, the symbol Lee uses for his mainstream Batman (as opposed to his All-Star Batman) was in use before Hush, along with the entirety of that Batman design. Howard Porter was using an identical design in his run on JLA in 2000-2001, and I'm sure if you looked you'd find plenty of artists doing the same in the period after the oval was removed. Hell, there's no significant difference between Lee's symbol/suit and the one drawn by Scott McDaniel in his lengthy run prior to Hush (that run being far superior to Hush, thanks to the stellar writing of Ed Brubaker... too bad he's exclusive to Marvel, now).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/The_More_You_Know.jpg

[CConn]

I didn't say anything about rubber or fabric, etc. I said I'm opposed to "cloth and light colors" And cloth as in, it's just cloth. The only thing I'm not budging about is being all black on film.Then that was merely a misunderstanding. Cloth and fabric are often interchanged.
Did you not read my post asking about trying the suit with a gold emblem? My reasoning behind that? It was to create a target on his chest directing gunfire away from his face and towards his body armor. Where did I think of that?! Couldn't of been on of them funny books, y'all read!Pfft. It's from DKR. Everyone's read DKR. My mother's read DKR.

[CConn]

And Saint? ...no one cares.

[jimmy]

And Saint? ...no one cares.

HAHAH! WTF? Why are you hating on Saint now?

[Saint]

And Saint? ...no one cares.

I do, and fortunately I am the only person who matters. Ever.

[Hole Shot]

Whatever point you tried to make there, you failed utterly.


You were comparing the story of a human being versus a story about space aliens.


Uhhh...

"I can't accept a fabric suit." (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=12900132&postcount=13539)

well, I'll be damned... Alright, here's how I'll back peddle and cover my ass on that one. When I've been typing fabric, that's all I'm thinking, just fabric like I'm wearing right now. If you could logically explain a fabric-body armor combination, as you have, then I can accept that.


It's from DKR. Everyone's read DKR. My mother's read DKR.

It was just to point out that I am aware of the under armor and that is the easiest that comes to mind. And honestly, I don't really read the annuals. I haven't been a collector for over decade but still continue to pick up the graphic novels and trades.



Then that was merely a misunderstanding. Cloth and fabric are often interchanged.


Yeah, that's my fault because I missed some of your points at first and wasn't clear to begin with, and in the end this is a silly exchange we're having since there is definitely a suit out there that we can agree on.

[jimmy]

Some of you guys need to get the sand our of your vaginas.

[Hole Shot]

Some of you guys need to get the sand our of your vaginas.


I put the dust buster to my crotch and already started applying a soothing lotion.

[jimmy]

Good to know.

[CConn]

I do, and fortunately I am the only person who matters. Ever.
Dammit. You've got me there.

[CConn]

HAHAH! WTF? Why are you hating on Saint now?
I usually hate on Saint about once every 2 months for fun.

[Saint]

Dammit. You've got me there.

Yeah, a workaround for that one has yet to be developed by the Anti-Saint Movement.

[jimmy]

Dammit. You've got me there.

I want you to also know that Jesus has you by the left testicle.

[CConn]

You were comparing the story of a human being versus a story about space aliens.Yes, I know. That was my point; that audiences accept really unrealistic, crazy things all the time in movies. Whether they be human, alien, or Chevrolet.
well, I'll be damned... Alright, here's how I'll back peddle and cover my ass on that one. When I've been typing fabric, that's all I'm thinking, just fabric like I'm wearing right now. If you could logically explain a fabric-body armor combination, as you have, then I can accept that.And that's all I was trying to say; that it is possible.
Yeah, that's my fault because I missed some of your points at first and wasn't clear to begin with, and in the end this is a silly exchange we're having since there is definitely a suit out there that we can agree on.Sure. My thing is always trying to see that people keep themselves open to some new ways of doing things. But, as I said, I never have any problem with personal preferences.

[BatScot]

http://www.homevideos.com/freezes-tv/Trek-MirrorMirror32.jpeg

Fascinating.