Batsuit Discussion Thread

[bunk]

What the hell? Bay jokes consist of lame ass stuff like fart jokes, jokes that consist of the use of the b-word, and masturbation jokes. Tell me how that is anything like that?

The key words are "lame ass". Maybe "Nice coat, b****." would fit better in a Bay movie.

[The Guard]

How "new" do you mean? Ed Brubaker's post-NML run remains my favourite run of the new millennium (though this may change depending on where Morrison's current run goes). I recommend it to everyone, including illiterates, small animals, and inanimate objects.

I didn't ask. Someone else did. I've ready pretty much every Batman comic in the last 10-15 years, and most of the "important" ones before that.

But yes, Brubaker's Batman is amazing. I love Brubaker's take on the character.

Yeah....all they did was set him on fire, drop him 5 stories to land on a car, be kicked and beaten by a mob, and drug along behind a monorail.....I'm sure the armored suit had nothing with him surviving those things.

It may have protected him (not that it should have, a complete defiance of the laws of physics did most of that for him), but it's just completely ignored. A small comment about it would have been nice, to justify the time they spent showing him finding/making it, etc.

The ironic thing is his suit shouldn't have protected him from much of that. You can put on body armor, but it's not going to help you much when you fall five stories onto a car. He should have broken a few ribs at the very least.

It also wouldn't have helped him hang on to the grapple behind the monorail, Bruce shouldn't have been able to hang on to the grapple, that train must have been going close to 50mph. His arm should have been pulled out of it's socket.

But then again, that's why I'm glad Nolan's not too realisitc

Exactly.

[Sandouras]

The ironic thing is his suit shouldn't have protected him from much of that. You can put on body armor, but it's not going to help you much when you fall five stories onto a car. He should have broken a few ribs at the very least.

It also wouldn't have helped him hang on to the grapple behind the monorail, Bruce shouldn't have been able to hang on to the grapple, that train must have been going close to 50mph. His arm should have been pulled out of it's socket.

But then again, that's why I'm glad Nolan's not too realisitc:yay:He grappled on the train while it was accelarating from zero speed. From the sound of the belt that was heard when he got free from the crowd and the fact that he flew upwards, and not dragged along the street i assume that he had managed to put the line between the belt's cogs and started to draw it back. For some reason it didnt stay there, hence he was hanging on the line (whose end was at the grapple gun positioned at the back of his belt. i think....). He eventually put all his strength to pull himself up a bit, so as to put the line back between the cogs which then drew it back.

I am overanalyzing i know!

If you want an example of a situation where his hand should have been dislocated, or worse, torn off, look no further than the scene where bruce saves rhas from the cliff. Beautiful scene, but totally unrealistic.

[Mr. Socko]

The key words are "lame ass". Maybe "Nice coat, b****." would fit better in a Bay movie.


LoL

[Brian Braddock]

The suit did protect Bruce from the electrical current of Rachel's Taser.

While it not knives or bullets - it was a good demonstration to emphasize it's protective qualities.

[The Guard]

True.

[Gianakin_]

What the hell? Bay jokes consist of lame ass stuff like fart jokes, jokes that consist of the use of the b-word, and masturbation jokes. Tell me how that is anything like that?

"I gotta get me one of those" was just tongue in cheek, it wasn't suppose to be LOL funny. With that said, Batman saying "Nice Coat" to the bum did not mix well, that was lame.

If you saw TF, then you know that he doesn't only resort to the aforementioned types of jokes.

The "Nice coat" one, you explained it. The "I gotta get me" was really an out of character moment for Gordon, just to insert a typical action movie line, that belongs in the 80s. Since similar lines are being kept alive by Bay, I said that this one was also Bay-esque.

[Lobster Charlie]

Eh...I guess I'm the only one on the planet that found the "nice coat" line to really work well in that scene. I still love it when I watch Begins to this day.

*shrugs*

[Gianakin_]

C. Lee liked it as well, so did his friends and family.

[regwec]

"Nice coat" was a fairly weak line, but not actually physically painful in the same way as some of the desperately earnest "taglines" found elsewhere. "It's not who I am on the inside, but what I do that defines me". Really? No ****. I went for a piss somewhere in the middle of act two and the entire premise of the film passed me by, so I'm glad our hero brought me up to speed with the emotional context, there.

[Leon the Professional]

"Nice coat" was a fairly weak line, but not actually physically painful in the same way as some of the desperately earnest "taglines" found elsewhere. "It's not who I am on the inside, but what I do that defines me". Really? No ****. I went for a piss somewhere in the middle of act two and the entire premise of the film passed me by, so I'm glad our hero brought me up to speed with the emotional context, there.


That was an excellent line. Just Bale's delivery of it was surprisingly disappointing.

[The Guard]

That was an excellent line. Just Bale's delivery of it was surprisingly disappointing.

It was a line. There's nothing excellent about dialogue that simply repeats dialogue from earlier in the movie. That may be the laziest style of screenwriting/writing that there is.

[Leon the Professional]

Nice coat wasn't funny at all, IMO. Especially in the scene it was used in. The big reveal of Batman, and he cracks a lame one liner to a homeless guy.

Meh.


Nolan should have cut to the train right at the moment Batman head-butts Falcone.

[bunk]

Is it just me or did a font/type size change just take place...?

[Leon the Professional]

It was a line. There's nothing excellent about dialogue that simply repeats dialogue from earlier in the movie. That may be the laziest style of screenwriting/writing that there is.


It is not lazy if his repetition of it has significance.

Also, whether the line is good or not and whether it should have been used twice or not are different issues.

I do think it would have been better if Batman came up with it by himself, and Rachel never found out that it's Bruce.

[SheldonLevene]

I think there could have been other ways for Bruce to reveal that he is Batman. That line is ****. If I am about to go take down some ninjas, I don't stop and come up with a line at all. I just jump of the building and do work. That scene didn't need to be anymore than Batman picking up Racheal and the kid and delivering them to safety. I am of course refering to the "what I am underneath" line.

[The Guard]

It is not lazy if his repetition of it has significance.

Oh, it's still lazy. I don't care what it implies about his "realization that Rachel was right" or the ridiculous "who is he underneath" connotation. It's just pure laziness, and to boot, the execution of it was poor. This seems to have become the "de facto" screenwriting tool for showing character development/depth in movies these days. Instead of actual dialogue, we get "buzz lines" like this is and "Still haven't given up on me?" "Nevah!" nonsense.

I blame THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION for this, although it seems every movie since about 1990 has featured this structural "brilliance".

[SheldonLevene]

I quite enjoy your avitar Gaurd.

[The Guard]

It was bestowed upon me.

[Leon the Professional]

Oh, it's still lazy. I don't care what it implies about his "realization that Rachel was right" or the ridiculous "who is he underneath" connotation. It's just pure laziness, and to boot, the execution of it was poor. This seems to have become the "de facto" screenwriting tool for showing character development/depth in movies these days. Instead of actual dialogue, we get "buzz lines" like this is and "Still haven't given up on me?" "Nevah!" nonsense.

I blame THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION for this, although it seems every movie since about 1990 has featured this structural "brilliance".


So then, given that Batman is supposed to reveal his identity to Rachel in some way at that moment, what would you prefer he say? Putting aside the issue of whether he should be revealing his identity to Rachel. Should he have said just "It's me, Bruce."?

[SheldonLevene]

It was bestowed upon me.

And judging by this current exchange, rightfully so.

[The Guard]

So then, given that Batman is supposed to reveal his identity to Rachel in some way at that moment, what would you prefer he say? Putting aside the issue of whether he should be revealing his identity to Rachel. Should he have said just "It's me, Bruce."?

Honestly? He really doesn't need to say anything there. He could easily have just looked into her eyes and struggled with it and not said a word. He's The Batman. He doesn't need to make a speech to get his point across, and he certainly doesn't need to steal someone else's words. If he has to say something, he could easily say something that wasn't already said earlier in the film. You can't just repeat Rachel's "lesson that Bruce didn't need to learn in the first place, he was just hiding behind a playboy veneer" and expect it to have any meaning on Bruce's end.

[SheldonLevene]

Honestly? He really doesn't need to say anything there. He could easily have just looked into her eyes and struggled with it and not said a word. He's The Batman. He doesn't need to make a speech to get his point across, and he certainly doesn't need to steal someone else's words. If he has to say something, he could easily say something that wasn't already said earlier in the film. You can't just repeat Rachel's "lesson that Bruce didn't need to learn in the first place, he was just hiding behind a playboy veneer" and expect it to have any meaning on Bruce's end.

That was my exact thought. If you're Batman, why say anything at all right there? It's like I have thought many times, they kind of beat us over the head with information when it was clear the first time.

[regwec]

So then, given that Batman is supposed to reveal his identity to Rachel in some way at that moment, what would you prefer he say? Putting aside the issue of whether he should be revealing his identity to Rachel. Should he have said just "It's me, Bruce."?
Well, we could suppose that Rachel was fairly perceptive, and able to 2 + 2 without having it drilled into her. In which case something like:

Rachel: Who are you?

Batman: Someone who cares. About you. About this city.

Rachel: OMFG BRUCE!!??

I'm no writer, but I would have cringed a lot less at that.

[The Guard]

It's not a bad MOMENT, and I like what's happening there, with Bruce, knowing he might die telling Rachel that he's not the carefree jerk he pretended to be, and that he took her words to heart, it's just not an excellent line itself.

[SheldonLevene]

Well, we could suppose that Rachel was fairly perceptive, and able to 2 + 2 without having it drilled into her. In which case something like:

Rachel: Who are you?

Batman: Someone who cares. About you. About this city.

Rachel: OMFG BRUCE!!??

I'm no writer, but I would have cringed a lot less at that.

Good line regwec. I like this alot better.

[bunk]

It's not the line that bothers me as much as it's Katie Holmes' stupid blank expression that immediately follows.

[SheldonLevene]

It's not the line that bothers me as much as it's Katie Holmes' stupid blank expression that immediately follows.

You can't blame Katie though. That is the way she was conditioned to act by TC.

[Sandouras]

Oh, it's still lazy. I don't care what it implies about his "realization that Rachel was right" or the ridiculous "who is he underneath" connotation. It's just pure laziness, and to boot, the execution of it was poor. This seems to have become the "de facto" screenwriting tool for showing character development/depth in movies these days. Instead of actual dialogue, we get "buzz lines" like this is and "Still haven't given up on me?" "Nevah!" nonsense.

I blame THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION for this, although it seems every movie since about 1990 has featured this structural "brilliance".
"Still havent given up on me" was great. I find it quite natural. Bruce makes an exclamation on Alfred's trust on him. Come on people dont be so picky.

And that "underneath" line, well reqwek yours is bad, suitable for a chick-flick and "dude, its me bruce" is bad and over simplistic. If i was in that suit, i would have said some quote we had shared to show who i am, what i represent and what the hell i am doing on that rooftop. With this bruce shows all that, without saying his name or taking off his mask. Jeez!

The problem with "nice coat" was that it was made at batman's first triumph, first appearence, the first scene that can really see his face. Its bad!
I know they tried to make a joke and even show us how surprised/shocked the homeless dude was (like in the superman movies, when he is flying for the first time and people just stand there watching him drooling and he says "hi". Its supposed to make a connection between the drooling viewer and the wonder, so that the viewer of the wonder can actually believe it and not think its the booze or the heat. There are a lot of stuff in BB showing people reacting to the sight of batman. notice the carpark guard when the batmobile breaks the beam! lol), but....had it been sometime else, it would have worked better.

[Saint]

It's not a bad MOMENT, and I like what's happening there, with Bruce, knowing he might die telling Rachel that he's not the carefree jerk he pretended to be, and that he took her words to heart, it's just not an excellent line itself.

My sentiments exactly.

[Sandouras]

It's not a bad MOMENT, and I like what's happening there, with Bruce, knowing he might die telling Rachel that he's not the carefree jerk he pretended to be, and that he took her words to heart, it's just not an excellent line itself.
Well it didnt sound that good there, true, but when rachel scolded him at the hotel it did apply well.
He was being a reckless jerk and claiming that he is a guy who cares and helps. She just told him that "its not.....defines you". Which is from a book. I think from Hemingway.

[TheBat812]

Oh, it's still lazy. I don't care what it implies about his "realization that Rachel was right" or the ridiculous "who is he underneath" connotation. It's just pure laziness, and to boot, the execution of it was poor. This seems to have become the "de facto" screenwriting tool for showing character development/depth in movies these days. Instead of actual dialogue, we get "buzz lines" like this is and "Still haven't given up on me?" "Nevah!" nonsense.

I blame THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION for this, although it seems every movie since about 1990 has featured this structural "brilliance".
it is ****ing brilliant and great filmmaking. Sorry if you don't get how film works. It's a certain style, and not for everything, but worked very well imo. I think it was a great way of him telling her that he was Bruce without blatantly saying it, while also clearly distinguishing it as a major theme of the film. I did hate some of the one-liners like the cop "At least tell me what it looks like..." I dont see how Nolan kept that in, but it was likely due to pacing and maybe he didnt shoot coverage for it.

[Sandouras]

it is ****ing brilliant and great filmmaking. Sorry if you don't get how film works. It's a certain style, and not for everything, but worked very well imo. I think it was a great way of him telling her that he was Bruce without blatantly saying it, while also clearly distinguishing it as a major theme of the film. I did hate some of the one-liners like the cop "At least tell me what it looks like..." I dont see how Nolan kept that in, but it was likely due to pacing and maybe he didnt shoot coverage for it.
I hope i dont look like a representative of nolan's, but what the hell has that line got to do with it?
Its a superhero movie. A serious one but some few jokes, easter eggs and stuff are to be expected. That "how it looks like" scene was another scene about people reacting to batman and getting completely disorganised and awed.
I mean, if you were a cop in his place you could say "wtf you re talking about? What tank? Tell me what it looks like!" And then you see it, your eyes widen and you re left speechless. I think it would happen in normal life if boyscouts flew or giant batpeople roamed the streets.
Go watch some french cinema if you want empty stares to the horizon and pretentious poetic sh**.

[Gianakin_]

The thing is, nevermind if you liked that line or not and its general moral value within the film etc etc, Bruce said it to 1.tell Rachel who he was without giving a name in fron of the boy and 2.though he could've said many different lines and still made Rachel understand, that particular line was fitting because when he said it, he was showing/proving to her that "it was not who he was underneath......."

Maybe Goyer/Nolan did try too hard to put a "with great power..." equivalent, but once that decision was made, I think it worked very well.

[Leon the Professional]

Honestly? He really doesn't need to say anything there. He could easily have just looked into her eyes and struggled with it and not said a word. He's The Batman. He doesn't need to make a speech to get his point across, and he certainly doesn't need to steal someone else's words. If he has to say something, he could easily say something that wasn't already said earlier in the film. You can't just repeat Rachel's "lesson that Bruce didn't need to learn in the first place, he was just hiding behind a playboy veneer" and expect it to have any meaning on Bruce's end.


Again, I asked you to put aside the issue of whether or not he should reveal his identity to her. So saying Batman should have remained silent is not an option. If he is to reveal his identity to her at that moment, what should he say? Silence isn't going to accomplish that.

So please give a better line of dialogue. You say it should be something original on his part. Fine, I'm totally game for that. But give a concrete suggestion.

[regwec]

And that "underneath" line, well reqwek yours is bad, suitable for a chick-flick
Actually, it's okay. It's pretty minimal and utilitarian, but the fact that someone like you doesn't like it shows that it must have a certain quality; I don't think a Nolanist drone would bother to respond to it all if it was obviously inferior to the Goyerism. :yay:

[SheldonLevene]

This is an argument over a single line of dialouge in a movie that is three years old in a thread about the batsuit. The hype must truely be starved for new information.

[Sandouras]

The thing is, nevermind if you liked that line or not and its general moral value within the film etc etc, Bruce said it to 1.tell Rachel who he was without giving a name in fron of the boy and 2.though he could've said many different lines and still made Rachel understand, that particular line was fitting because when he said it, he was showing/proving to her that "it was not who he was underneath......."

Maybe Goyer/Nolan did try too hard to put a "with great power..." equivalent, but once that decision was made, I think it worked very well.Me too, besides, batman's ethics in BB cant be put in one line like SM's. His ethics are shown when he talks to rachel at various times, when he realises what the league is doing and escapes, or when rhas confronts him in his house.

That line hardly sums up anything about him. But it sums up his acting as bruce wayne and the false image he is trying to show to throw off suspicion.

Also, imagine if this sort of situation happened in B&R and batman instead of saying "its not who i am...", saying the famous "what, are you dense? are you retarded?........goddamn batman". That would redeem the film for me totally! If it had some parody in it.

[Boom]

"Nice ride."

[Gianakin_]

This is an argument over a single line of dialouge in a movie that is three years old in a thread about the batsuit. The hype must truely be starved for new information.

I know I am.

However, lines like this are important to characterisation and I can see why anyone who'd have a problem with it would make a big deal out of it.

[Leon the Professional]

I'd bet money that if Bale's delivery of that line were better people would have much less of a problem with it. What were he and Nolan thinking going with that take? He should have stood his ass up instead of squatting like a toad, speak with the same kind of voice as when he saved Rachel at the train station instead of that almost whiny voice, and not spend five seconds pronouncing "do."

[Gianakin_]

Me too, besides, batman's ethics in BB cant be put in one line like SM's. His ethics are shown when he talks to rachel at various times, when he realises what the league is doing and escapes, or when rhas confronts him in his house.

That line hardly sums up anything about him. But it sums up his acting as bruce wayne and the false image he is trying to show to throw off suspicion.

I don't think it sums up something, but I do believe it's a part of his whole characterisation. Besides, I happen to agree with what that line says.

On the whole, I disagree with the Guard's stance toward this particular writing technique. Like every technique, I think it has its uses when used wisely. I'm of the opinion that it was utilized well at that time.

[Sandouras]

Actually, it's okay. It's pretty minimal and utilitarian, but the fact that someone like you doesn't like it shows that it must have a certain quality; I don't think a Nolanist drone would bother to respond to it all if it was obviously inferior to the Goyerism. :yay:Thank you for your good words.

Still dont change the fact that its a sobbery line to be delivered by jude law to the chick whose heart he broke!

And i dont consider it a goyerism. I think that this is nolan, okay, perhaps maybe even goyer trying to give a line similar to spiderman's from scratch (which was honed through all these years of comics, while batman never had one as his tag) and also to make this line a device for bruce to reveal his identity without saying "i'm bruce" or something sobbery like yours, but something, epic, poetic, etc. If they hit the target is for us to judge.

I for one like the method they choose for the revelation. And i like the line as well. Rachel had a misconception about bruce like everyone in gotham has, with the playboy persona he has. He fixed that in a more complex way that your mind can comprehend perhaps.

And if i am a nolan drone, that makes you a narrowminded Burton or anti-nolan drone. Everything in BB is bad and YOU KNOW ALREADY the same for TDK, because you are so sophisticated!

[SheldonLevene]

I'd bet money that if Bale's delivery of that line were better people would have much less of a problem with it. What were he and Nolan thinking going with that take? He should have stood his ass up instead of squatting like a toad, speak with the same kind of voice as when he saved Rachel at the train station instead of that almost whiny voice, and not spend five seconds pronouncing "do."

I agree 100%. For my money his Batman voice was at it's best when he saved Racheal at the monorail landing thing. It sounded quite off in the disputed scene. I am also of the mind that Batman should speak far less that he did in BB, but that isn't the argument.

[regwec]

I'd bet money that if Bale's delivery of that line were better people would have much less of a problem with it. What were he and Nolan thinking going with that take? He should have stood his ass up instead of squatting like a toad, speak with the same kind of voice as when he saved Rachel at the train station instead of that almost whiny voice, and not spend five seconds pronouncing "do."
You might be right. The line does sound like an idiot attempting to be profound. It could have played better if Bale had sounded more off-the-cuff, so that the corniness of the line at least sounded accidental.

[regwec]

Still dont change the fact that its a sobbery line to be delivered by jude law to the chick whose heart he broke
Nah- it just fulfills the dramatic purpose with a minimum of rhetorical verbeage. It's probably a bit dull, but it does the job without anyone vomiting.

something, epic, poetic,

or just really funny.

And if i am a nolan drone, that makes you a narrowminded Burton or anti-nolan drone. Everything in BB is bad and YOU KNOW ALREADY the same for TDK, because you are so sophisticated!

Actually, I like Nolan's Batfilms roughly as much as Burton's. I just don't profess to love or hate everything, which is really the only rational way to be, and certainly less narrowminded than assuming that Nolan's way is the only way!

[Gianakin_]

Actually, I like Nolan's Batfilms roughly as much as Burton's. I just don't profess to love or hate everything, which is really the only rational way to be, and certainly less narrowminded than assuming that Nolan's way is the only way!

This is just for clarification, not trying to provoke something:
Haven't you often stated/implied that Nolan being replaced would be a very good thing (not the exact words you've used)?

[regwec]

Yep, and I think it would. But that doesn't mean he is incompetent; just that another director might be more comfortable with the material.

[Gianakin_]

Yep, and I think it would. But that doesn't mean he is incompetent; just that another director might be more comfortable with the material.

Oh, ok. Thank you.

[SheldonLevene]

Yep, and I think it would. But that doesn't mean he is incompetent; just that another director might be more comfortable with the material.

What director would you want regwec? Just wondering.

[regwec]

Well, since Blade Runner has been such a huge influence on the visual flavour of Gotham over the last 20 years, I would love to see what Ridley Scott would bring to it. I would love to see a smaller scale Batfilm with a Coen influence. Then there are obvious shoe-ins like Michael Mann, Guillermo del Toro or David Fincher.

[SheldonLevene]

Cool. Alright off to the gym. goodbye fellas.

[BATS N' HORNETS]

Actually, I like Nolan's Batfilms roughly as much as Burton's. I just don't profess to love or hate everything, which is really the only rational way to be, and certainly less narrowminded than assuming that Nolan's way is the only way!


i wish i could be like you! ! !

Burton & Nolan amalgamation would be IDEAL my friend...

[Mr. Socko]

I'd like to see a Batsuit done in the same fashion as Billy Zane's Phantom costume, in concept of'course:)

[batsone]

I'd like to see a Batsuit done in the same fashion as Billy Zane's Phantom costume, in concept of'course:)
hey man what u doin gettin this thread back on topic?

[Mercurius]

I'd like to see a Batsuit done in the same fashion as Billy Zane's Phantom costume, in concept of'course:)

Me too. :cwink:

[gwynplaine]

I'd like to see a Batsuit done in the same fashion as Billy Zane's Phantom costume, in concept of'course:)
I hope they do "Mandrake the magician" some day.

[teseract]

it is ****ing brilliant and great filmmaking. Sorry if you don't get how film works. It's a certain style, and not for everything, but worked very well imo. I think it was a great way of him telling her that he was Bruce without blatantly saying it, while also clearly distinguishing it as a major theme of the film. I did hate some of the one-liners like the cop "At least tell me what it looks like..." I dont see how Nolan kept that in, but it was likely due to pacing and maybe he didnt shoot coverage for it.

Burton did it better in Batman Returns.

[Crook]

Completely forgot about that. Indeed he did, and a lot subtler with more impact too. :up:

[bunk]

If I were a billionaire, I'd be hiring professionals to make cool batsuits just to see what you could come up with given unlimited time and resources.

I'd also get drunk and burn down my mansion.

[Saint]

Completely forgot about that. Indeed he did, and a lot subtler with more impact too. :up:

Absolutely.

[gwynplaine]

If I were a billionaire, I'd be hiring professionals to make cool batsuits just to see what you could come up with given unlimited time and resources.

I'd also get drunk and burn down my mansion.
Lol. Great avvy, Viggo is the man.

[Bnightwing]

I'd like to see a Batsuit done in the same fashion as Billy Zane's Phantom costume, in concept of'course:)

:up:

[Sandouras]

Completely forgot about that. Indeed he did, and a lot subtler with more impact too. :up:You mean telling Selina who he was? He wasnt in a hurry to fight ninjas there. He was trying to persuade her to stop that madness and go with him. He didnt just want to reveal his name. And if i remember correctly he too used a line that she had earlier told him. If someone remembers, please bring it up so we can compare.
If I were a billionaire, I'd be hiring professionals to make cool batsuits just to see what you could come up with given unlimited time and resources.

I'd also get drunk and burn down my mansion.You re the man bunk!! :word:

PS: what does vigo mean by that sign he is doing?

[Reflectionist]

You mean telling Selina who he was? He wasnt in a hurry to fight ninjas there. He was trying to persuade her to stop that madness and go with him. He didnt just want to reveal his name. And if i remember correctly he too used a line that she had earlier told him. If someone remembers, please bring it up so we can compare.
You re the man bunk!! :word:

PS: what does vigo mean by that sign he is doing?

When they are on the roof as Batman and Catwoman, Batman says something like "Mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it" and then Catwoman says "But a kiss can be even deadlier if you mean it." And then later, at Shreck's ball, Selina and Bruce are dancing and then she looks up and sees some mistletoe, she says, "You know, mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it." and then, absent mindedly Bruce says "But a kiss can be even deadlier if you mean it." and then they realize who they are.

And Selina says, "Oh my God.....does this mean we have to start fighting?"

First instance of the line........
IquO5MsgPfw
Second instance of the line.........
X5zARNyV4gg
And, what the hell, let's throw this in 'cause it's relevant.
vLmZz3als6Y&feature=related

[gwynplaine]

You mean telling Selina who he was? He wasnt in a hurry to fight ninjas there. He was trying to persuade her to stop that madness and go with him. He didnt just want to reveal his name. And if i remember correctly he too used a line that she had earlier told him. If someone remembers, please bring it up so we can compare.
You re the man bunk!! :word:

PS: what does vigo mean by that sign he is doing?
I believe he is telling the old man that he is going to kill him. Viggo is a god.

[The Guard]

it is ****ing brilliant and great filmmaking.

You think that's "brilliant"? Hope you don't plan to be a filmmaker.

Sorry if you don't get how film works.

Sorry you think that repetitive nonsense is "clever".

Again, I asked you to put aside the issue of whether or not he should reveal his identity to her. So saying Batman should have remained silent is not an option. If he is to reveal his identity to her at that moment, what should he say? Silence isn't going to accomplish that.

I did put aside the issue of whether or not he should reveal his identity. He doesn't need to say anything to do it. Rachel knows her friend. If he lets down his guard for an instant, she'd see him there. Might actually have been a chance for some acting in that scene.

So please give a better line of dialogue.

"Better" is relative. Do you want something that "sounds better" as dialogue or something that doesn't feel so forced and planned? And it doesn't matter, because you clearly love the line and think it's brilliant, so nothing anyone could possibly say would satisfy you at this point, other than that line.

Hmm...

I don't mind the "Someone who cares about Gotham" line someone gave earlier, though not those exact words.

I'm also partial to "You know who I am" with some acting involved between them.

Something simple and direct, that doesn't sound like a preachy speech. Anything where an intelligent man doesn't feel the need to take Rachel's words for his own.

You might be right. The line does sound like an idiot attempting to be profound. It could have played better if Bale had sounded more off-the-cuff, so that the corniness of the line at least sounded accidental.

And for the record, I thought this method of screenwriting "reveal" was lazy in BATMAN RETURNS, too.

[BATS N' HORNETS]

once again let's get back on topic.... THIS IS THE BATSUIT THREAD we're supposed to be good little fanboys & gripe about how TDK suit sucks...

LET's get at it again

[Reflectionist]

To be honest, with the over-obviousness of some points on Batman Begins, I'm suprised he didn't turn around, pull off the cowl, and say "I'm Bruce Wayne, your childhood friend."

But maybe if Frank Miller had written it. "Age Twelve" Ring a bell to anyone?

And HEY, the TDK Suit does not suck. Don't knock it until you've seen it in action. No one was complaining about how it looked in the trailer. The only complaints are the ones from stock photos, which are hardly ever effected with the same effects as the film is (darkened, less contrast, bluescale, etc. etc.) And the ones that are, no one's complaining about.

You want to complain about a batsuit, complain about Michael Keaton's Wierd-shaped-Tits in Batman Returns.

[gwynplaine]

once again let's get back on topic.... THIS IS THE BATSUIT THREAD we're supposed to be good little fanboys & gripe about how TDK suit sucks...

LET's get at it again
Lol.

[bunk]

Lol. Great avvy, Viggo is the man.

He really is the man... such a good actor.


You re the man bunk!! :word:

Yes. Yes I am. Quick recap; Both Viggo and I are the man.

PS: what does vigo mean by that sign he is doing?

It's the scene before he gets his tonsils taken out, he's pretty excited about it.

I believe he is telling the old man that he is going to kill him. Viggo is a god.

Oh yeah... The tonsil surgery is part of the deleted scenes.

[Sandouras]

I saw that BR scene. Wow i had forgotten all about it. I thought it all happened right before bruce tore the cowl.
Anyway, it was the same concept and i think its even more forced cause it supposedly happened by chance! Come on.....

I don't mind the "Someone who cares about Gotham" line someone gave earlier, though not those exact words.

I'm also partial to "You know who I am" with some acting involved between them.

Something simple and direct, that doesn't sound like a preachy speech. Anything where an intelligent man doesn't feel the need to take Rachel's words for his own.
Letting his guard down would be quite good. "You know who i am" (the juggernaut bit**? lol) on the other hand is mediocre and simplistic. It sounds like a coward's answer to a girl. Like:
"Are you in love with someone?"
"You know who..."
Come on....

First of all its a movie and some things have to be 5% more dramatic than real life for our enjoyment and for passing a message. I enjoyed this line. Its like asking Ben Parker to do a 5 minute long speech like every parent does instead of saying the phrase "with great power comes....". Your parents would be talking to you for 5 hours about it, yet since its a film, we got the epic/heroic/COMIC line.

I suppose it all goes down to personal taste, but i always liked this sort of thing. How is that lazy? Lazy is "i am someone who cares about you" or "we used to play hide and seek before you grew boobies". That line perfectly matches the misconception people have about bruce being the stupid party boy and rachel still not being convinced of bruce's ethics. For the whole movie she is trying to show him the way and maybe use his means for a good cause.
With that line he shows that even when he was "swimming" he was acting. That this is what he "doooooooo" that defines him. That he got the message.

PS: I'd like to see reqwek's review of Burton's misiltoe.

[gwynplaine]

He really is the man... such a good actor.



Yes. Yes I am. Quick recap; Both Viggo and I are the man.



It's the scene before he gets his tonsils taken out, he's pretty excited about it.



Oh yeah... The tonsil surgery is part of the deleted scenes.
Lol:woot: .

[Leon the Professional]

I did put aside the issue of whether or not he should reveal his identity. He doesn't need to say anything to do it. Rachel knows her friend. If he lets down his guard for an instant, she'd see him there. Might actually have been a chance for some acting in that scene.



Can you elaborate on this idea of letting her know by letting down his guard?

[theShape]

You want to complain about a batsuit, complain about Michael Keaton's Wierd-shaped-Tits in Batman Returns.

Thank you, someone else agrees with me. I complained about his chest piece in Returns and how it didn't quite look right, and everyone said the same thing. "It's art-deco, man. It fits with Gotham!"

[Sandouras]

Can you elaborate on this idea of letting her know by letting down his guard? I suppose he means him looking a bit sad, his eyes almost watering and somehow showing that "HELLO? BRUCE HERE!!!!". Something like that. Though if rachel could see through the disguise, sooner or later someone would.

Thank you, someone else agrees with me. I complained about his chest piece in Returns and how it didn't quite look right, and everyone said the same thing. "It's art-deco, man. It fits with Gotham!"
And the nipples match with neon. So no need to complain there!

[Nepenthes]

"A kiss can be deadly if you mean it"................the best scene in Batman Returns :up: :batty:

'It's what you dooooooo that defines you"......:csad:, thank GOD Jonah Nolan is working on TDK.

[Sandouras]

"A kiss can be deadly if you mean it"................the best scene in Batman Returns :up: :batty:

'It's what you dooooooo that defines you"......:csad:, thank GOD Jonah Nolan is working on TDK. Clearly the first one is cheesier, even if it were in BB.
The "doooo" thing is bale's fault. Other than that, i am sorry but its better than YOUR GOD BURTON!

[theShape]

I really hate when people worship the Burton movies, and bash Nolan's, or vice versa. I love both. I think both directors represented Batman well, and I really can't bash either.

Each series has a different style and feeling, which is a good thing.

[WalterKovacs]

I really hate when people worship the Burton movies, and bash Nolan's, or vice versa. I love both. I think both directors represented Batman well, and I really can't bash either.

Each series has a different style and feeling, which is a good thing.
QFT

[Reflectionist]

Clearly the first one is cheesier, even if it were in BB.
The "doooo" thing is bale's fault. Other than that, i am sorry but its better than YOUR GOD BURTON!

No need to be offensive about Burton. Burton's films were just as valid as Nolan's are now. Except Burton's old hat and Nolan is the new guy and everyone loves the newest.

I agree that the line "it's not what I do that defines me" is a great line. Yes, very well scripted. I wish it could've been acted better by both parties, or under better circumstances, but it wasn't. That's what pulls me away from it. So, taking that as one factor, I'm going to say that the Bruce / Selina relationship in Returns and even the Bruce / Vicki relationship in Batman completely dominate Begins' relationship.

Another thing you have to realize is that Nolan and Burton are like apples and oranges. I enjoy both movies. I remember the Burton movies from my childhood and when I saw Begins, I was instantly hooked on Batman again, so it made sense to go back and revisit the films from my childhood. But now I'm in college, so I can notice a lot more about them, and have a better appreciation for those films as a work of fantasy and not just as a single Batman Story or some brainchild of a really dark noir-esque Director.

[BATS N' HORNETS]

Why don't more people object to the new chest symbol?????

[Sandouras]

I really hate when people worship the Burton movies, and bash Nolan's, or vice versa. I love both. I think both directors represented Batman well, and I really can't bash either.

Each series has a different style and feeling, which is a good thing.They were flawed like everything man will ever make. You cant please everyone. So people bash out at what they dont like and hope for improvements.

All in all, i think that people expect those movies to be too serious with realistic (and frankly boring) everyday dialogue. We have to remember that we are talking about movies here and many dramatic effects are used for various purposes. Bruce's "still havent given up on me" helps bond parts of the film together, but i think that it comes rather naturally as well. It only shows how water-eyed bruce is that alfred hasnt given up on him and instead go and butler a more sane person.

Other lines like "i gotta get me one of those" may sound a bit off. But they are there for a reason. To lighten up the atmosphere for a bit, to help the audience relax a bit and maybe even crack a smile. They dont spoil the movie if used correctly like "at least tell me how it looks like". After you leave the theatre you wont be remembering those lines, you will remember the general plot and things that amazed you about the movie. Those lines wont be remembered but they would have served their purpose of setting a lighter tone for 5 seconds so you can relax a bit, before the next scene.
Hasnt anyone of you studied ancient Greek theatre? They used those techniques (not nice coat, but specific milder scenes to relax before the next dramatic one) even then!

Clearly if you come out of the theatre whining about nice coat and not thinking about the freaking batmobile or the awesome cape scenes, then you re an idiot.
And if you nitpick about it now, then its because you havent got a girlfriend. Most people say "awesome movie" and move on. They dont spoil it by watching it on DVD in x0.5 speed and then going through all the dialogue 3 times.

[Sandouras]

No need to be offensive about Burton. Burton's films were just as valid as Nolan's are now. Except Burton's old hat and Nolan is the new guy and everyone loves the newest.

I agree that the line "it's not what I do that defines me" is a great line. Yes, very well scripted. I wish it could've been acted better by both parties, or under better circumstances, but it wasn't. That's what pulls me away from it. So, taking that as one factor, I'm going to say that the Bruce / Selina relationship in Returns and even the Bruce / Vicki relationship in Batman completely dominate Begins' relationship.

Another thing you have to realize is that Nolan and Burton are like apples and oranges. I enjoy both movies. I remember the Burton movies from my childhood and when I saw Begins, I was instantly hooked on Batman again, so it made sense to go back and revisit the films from my childhood. But now I'm in college, so I can notice a lot more about them, and have a better appreciation for those films as a work of fantasy and not just as a single Batman Story or some brainchild of a really dark noir-esque Director.
I was just talking about those specific lines....and maybe whining about people not passing such a strong judgement on burton. I too didnt feel that Bruce-Rachel was as important as the vicki/selina ones. But they were never really together. They were more like friends. We didnt see bruce in pain about making a relationship.

[namtaB]

I really hate when people worship the Burton movies, and bash Nolan's, or vice versa. I love both. I think both directors represented Batman well, and I really can't bash either.

Each series has a different style and feeling, which is a good thing.

U mad?

[namtaB]

They were flawed like everything man will ever make. You cant please everyone. So people bash out at what they dont like and hope for improvements.

All in all, i think that people expect those movies to be too serious with realistic (and frankly boring) everyday dialogue. We have to remember that we are talking about movies here and many dramatic effects are used for various purposes. Bruce's "still havent given up on me" helps bond parts of the film together, but i think that it comes rather naturally as well. It only shows how water-eyed bruce is that alfred hasnt given up on him and instead go and butler a more sane person.

Other lines like "i gotta get me one of those" may sound a bit off. But they are there for a reason. To lighten up the atmosphere for a bit, to help the audience relax a bit and maybe even crack a smile. After you leave the theatre you wont be remembering those lines, you will remember the general plot and things that amazed you about the movie. Those lines wont be remembered but they would have served their purpose of setting a lighter tone for 5 seconds so you can relax a bit, before the next scene.
Hasnt anyone of you studied ancient Greek theatre? They used those techniques (not nice coat, but specific milder scenes to relax before the next dramatic one) even then!

Clearly if you come out of the theatre whining about nice coat and not thinking about the freaking batmobile or the awesome cape scenes, then you re an idiot.
And if you nitpick about it now, then its because you havent got a girlfriend. Most people say "awesome movie" and move on. They dont spoil it by watching it on DVD in x0.5 speed and then going through all the dialogue 3 times.

The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

[Sandouras]

The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.You re here on Hype with me, arent you? You re nitpicking along with me arent you?

You can hardly give me advice about important things in life (which is obviously subjective). You must have fewer brain cells.

[Crook]

I saw that BR scene. Wow i had forgotten all about it. I thought it all happened right before bruce tore the cowl.
Anyway, it was the same concept and i think its even more forced cause it supposedly happened by chance! Come on.....
What exactly do you call Batman being in the same exact area of the Narrows that his childhood best friend is at? No less, as he's there, has to save her from thugs and having a quick chance to tell her who he is?

Compare that to Bruce and Selina meeting up at a costume ball, in their civilian identities. They've had a previous "relationship" that went outside their costumes, and there was an obvious attraction there. So them dancing at a party, isn't exactly a stretch.

Lastly, there was a repeating of lines. Difference is, not only was the execution by the actors superior in BR, but the circumstance didn't overtly come off as "superhero must tell something important to the damsel before he goes off in the night!"

[Grinning-smile]

I can't remember if it was just rumour or not, but i'm sure i remember reading somewhere a while ago that the new batsuit was supposed to have white eyes, like the comics, anyone confirm this yet? Or was it just rumour? Either way it's just got me thinking about it.

[Reflectionist]

What exactly do you call Batman being in the same exact area of the Narrows that his childhood best friend is at? No less, as he's there, has to save her from thugs and having a quick chance to tell her who he is?

Detective work, to be honest. Bruce was right there when Racheal got the phone call. She knew Crane had moved Falcone to Arkham like the rest of the goons and she reacted in an obvious way. She even said "I'll be there in a few minutes" or something like that, I believe. Bruce was watching her the entire time of the phone call. He knew she was going to be in danger because he knew Crane was involved with the fear toxin and that he's dangerous. So as soon as she left, he pushed the arrowhead gift to alfred and went down and got into the suit and left for the Narrows.

EDIT - actually, it's not really detective work. It was more like, really obvious more than anything. Hey, Racheal's gotta go deal with a man i know is dangerous, but I can't tell her because I can't tell her i'm Batman. So I think I'll just go follow her candy ass and see what happens.

[Crook]

Detective work, to be honest. Bruce was right there when Racheal got the phone call. She knew Crane had moved Falcone to Arkham like the rest of the goons and she reacted in an obvious way. She even said "I'll be there in a few minutes" or something like that, I believe. Bruce was watching her the entire time of the phone call. He knew she was going to be in danger because he knew Crane was involved with the fear toxin and that he's dangerous. So as soon as she left, he pushed the arrowhead gift to alfred and went down and got into the suit and left for the Narrows.
1) It's clearly not detective work if her location is already given to him on a silver platter, is it?

2) I'm aware that he knows she's in the Narrows, I stated that in my first post. My point was he just happened to find her alone surrounded by villains in the nick of time.

And did ya'll see how relatively big the Narrows were? It's basically a small island. When the entire area is going crazy with people running about in chaos, it IS a stretch for him to find her.

[SheldonLevene]

I can't remember if it was just rumour or not, but i'm sure i remember reading somewhere a while ago that the new batsuit was supposed to have white eyes, like the comics, anyone confirm this yet? Or was it just rumour? Either way it's just got me thinking about it.

I can answer that, and thank you for the question because it has something to do with the topic of this thread. I do not think that this has been confirmed. As of right now it is a rumor with a reasonable chance of being true. At least for a brief instance in the film.

[Sandouras]

What exactly do you call Batman being in the same exact area of the Narrows that his childhood best friend is at? No less, as he's there, has to save her from thugs and having a quick chance to tell her who he is?

Compare that to Bruce and Selina meeting up at a costume ball, in their civilian identities. They've had a previous "relationship" that went outside their costumes, and there was an obvious attraction there. So them dancing at a party, isn't exactly a stretch.

Lastly, there was a repeating of lines. Difference is, not only was the execution by the actors superior in BR, but the circumstance didn't overtly come off as "superhero must tell something important to the damsel before he goes off in the night!"Wasnt thinking. Indeed its supposed to be by chance in BB as well. Though nolan had rachel go to the narrows to give gordon the antidote. I know, its quite lame. But then maybe he knew she was still there, maybe gordon told him, whatever he seached and found her. This isnt the first time that batman or any other hero arrives at the right place at the right time.

[Crook]

Wasnt thinking. Indeed its supposed to be by chance in BB as well. Though nolan had rachel go to the narrows to give gordon the antidote. I know, its quite lame. But then maybe he knew she was still there, maybe gordon told him, whatever he seached and found her. This isnt the first time that batman or any other hero arrives at the right place at the right time.
It's not a problem. Personally, I didn't really have too much of an issue with it. Just stood out to me, because between those 2 scenes, one clearly came off a lot more hackneyed than the other.

[Reflectionist]

1) It's clearly not detective work if her location is already given to him on a silver platter, is it?

2) I'm aware that he knows she's in the Narrows, I stated that in my first post. My point was he just happened to find her alone surrounded by villains in the nick of time.

And did ya'll see how relatively big the Narrows were? It's basically a small island. When the entire area is going crazy with people running about in chaos, it IS a stretch for him to find her.

Are we talking about the part where she's taken by the fear gas or the part where she goes to inoculate Gordon?

Because if we're talking about the former, then he knew exactly where she was going, and who she was going to be with. She said she was going to Arkham to fight off Crane's putting Flacone in Arkham. Otherwise, you're right, it's a complete stretch. Except it's not like Rachel Dawes, D.A. of Gotham City or Lt. James Gordon of the GCPD can just disappear. The narrows are too small for people like them to disappear.

What pissed me off about that scene was Bruce's line, "Be careful, Rachel. It's in the narrows." And it comes off like an elementary school geography lesson. The way he says it so condescendingly, and adds the little nod of his head.

But then she gives him a reply that's like "Yeah. I know, douchebag."

[Sandouras]

It's not a problem. Personally, I didn't really have too much of an issue with it. Just stood out to me, because between those 2 scenes, one clearly came off a lot more hackneyed than the other.actually i was more pissed at how badly nolan showed batman rescuing her. A black blurr falling, the thug shouting in pain, a black blurr going up. I know its hard to portray batman pulling up a woman and a kid, but.....meh, it was quite bad.

Are we talking about the part where she's taken by the fear gas or the part where she goes to inoculate Gordon?

Because if we're talking about the former, then he knew exactly where she was going, and who she was going to be with. She said she was going to Arkham to fight off Crane's putting Flacone in Arkham. Otherwise, you're right, it's a complete stretch. Except it's not like Rachel Dawes, D.A. of Gotham City or Lt. James Gordon of the GCPD can just disappear. The narrows are too small for people like them to disappear.

What pissed me off about that scene was Bruce's line, "Be careful, Rachel. It's in the narrows." And it comes off like an elementary school geography lesson. The way he says it so condescendingly, and adds the little nod of his head.
But then she gives him a reply that's like "Yeah. I know, douchebag."

We are talking about the second. The scene with the "who i am underneath, but what i doooooooooo that defines me" line.

[Crook]

Are we talking about the part where she's taken by the fear gas or the part where she goes to inoculate Gordon?

Because if we're talking about the former, then he knew exactly where she was going, and who she was going to be with. She said she was going to Arkham to fight off Crane's putting Flacone in Arkham. Otherwise, you're right, it's a complete stretch. Except it's not like Rachel Dawes, D.A. of Gotham City or Lt. James Gordon of the GCPD can just disappear. The narrows are too small for people like them to disappear.

What pissed me off about that scene was Bruce's line, "Be careful, Rachel. It's in the narrows." And it comes off like an elementary school geography lesson. The way he says it so condescendingly, and adds the little nod of his head.

But then she gives him a reply that's like "Yeah. I know, douchebag."
Just took a look at the film again. I mixed up the 2 scenes. My apologies.

But, I was referring to the part where she goes to inoculate Gordon. And since there was no phone call or hint at where she'd exactly be, I think it serves my point even further. ;)

actually i was more pissed at how badly nolan showed batman rescuing her. A black blurr falling, the thug shouting in pain, a black blurr going up. I know its hard to portray batman pulling up a woman and a kid, but.....meh, it was quite bad.
Eh, well by then that was kinda how Batman was being shown throughout the entire film. So I was used to it.

But yes, it was pretty uninspired.

[Reflectionist]

Okay, well, if you take into account as soon as rachel woke up she went to innoculate Gordon.... it makes sense. It's in the morning when she wakes up, Grabs the vials and leaves to find Gordon. That night, something big is going down, and every cop's heading into the Narrows. Gordon's going to be there, Rachel's going to be there. Batman knows for a fact that Gordon won't be hard to find, and if Rachel is there, she'll be looking for Gordon or be with him.

It's like the first season of Heroes. Save the cheerleader, save the world. Find Gordon; find Rachel. And besides, it's Batman, he's not exactly sneaking around, you know.

(I'm just playing devil's advocate here, just so you guys know... i tend to do that.)

[Sandouras]

I think the fact that Rachel found the same kid that batman came across is....mindblowing!!!

Oh please, lets stop this, the whole movie is tearing apart!!!!

[Crook]

I think the fact that Rachel found the same kid that batman came across is....mindblowing!!!
Wow, how in the world did I forget that?!

Just thinking about it now--- :funny:

[Reflectionist]

I think the fact that Rachel found the same kid that batman came across is....mindblowing!!!

Oh please, lets stop this, the whole movie is tearing apart!!!!

*stops for a second*
*looks up and to the left*
*looks down in shame*

Sad. How sad. Well, then again, this is the movie that says Batman was trained by secret dope smoking ninjas in the mountains, so I guess it can pass...........

[SheldonLevene]

Ok ok how about this one. How about the fact that the only time Bruce and Joker visit Vicky's house in the entire film they happen to bump into each other, and Joker happens to utter his tag line keying Bruce into the fact that he killed his parents and is in fact Jack Napier. Come on guys movies are full of fortunate coincidences.

[Reflectionist]

Ok ok how about this one. How about the fact that the only time Bruce and Joker visit Vicky's house in the entire film they happen to bump into each other, and Joker happens to utter his tag line keying Bruce into the fact that he killed his parents and is in fact Jack Napier. Come on guys movies are full of fortunate coincidences.

Cha, but Bat's recognized him at Axis Chem. in the beginning of the movie. Keaton's Bruce was too brooding and thoughtful to be completely in the dark about that.

[Crook]

Joker happens to utter his tag line keying Bruce into the fact that he killed his parents and is in fact Jack Napier.
This part wasn't coincidence. Joker's next line explains exactly why he said it to Bruce.

[SheldonLevene]

Yeah but the fact that neither Bruce nor Joker goes to Vicky's apartment beforehand is. I realize he always asks that of his prey but everything is built on coincidences.

[Sandouras]

Ok ok how about this one. How about the fact that the only time Bruce and Joker visit Vicky's house in the entire film they happen to bump into each other, and Joker happens to utter his tag line keying Bruce into the fact that he killed his parents and is in fact Jack Napier. Come on guys movies are full of fortunate coincidences.indeed. But if they serve a purpose, i guess its fine. I see no other reason for rachel saving the kid, other than keeping bruce from taking off his mask. For example rachel saving an adult would result in the adult later asking the hot question, asking for ransom, going to the tabloids, etc. The kid was orgasming the whole time! :funny::funny::funny:

[Sandouras]

This part wasn't coincidence. Joker's next line explains exactly why he said it to Bruce.why? because he always says that to his victims?

PS: didnt like that line.

[SheldonLevene]

Either way I need the rest of my light bright pieces. My name isn't Adam We.

[Mr. Socko]

Yeah but the fact that neither Bruce nor Joker goes to Vicky's apartment beforehand is. I realize he always asks that of his prey but everything is built on coincidences.


Exactly, I have no problem with them as long as they don't make you stop during the middle of the movie and think "wait, wait, that isn't right."

[Crook]

why? because he always says that to his victims?

PS: didnt like that line.
Yes.

P.S. I personally loved the line. Kinda makes you wonder what the hell it means. Still does actually, lol.

[Sandouras]

Yes.

P.S. I personally loved the line. Kinda makes you wonder what the hell it means. Still does actually, lol.thats why i didnt like it. Because its crazy. Not joker -playfull, joking, rhyming- crazy. But serious crazy. Like how serious he was as napier. And actually, the joker shouldnt have a catchphrase. He should be making stuff up all the time.

[SheldonLevene]

thats why i didnt like it. Because its crazy. Not joker -playfull, joking, rhyming- crazy. But serious crazy. Like how serious he was as napier. And actually, the joker shouldnt have a catchphrase. He should be making stuff up all the time.

Although we haven't seen TDK many would argue that Heath's Joker has a tagline.

[SheldonLevene]

Catchphrase rather.

[Mr. Socko]

thats why i didnt like it. Because its crazy. Not joker -playfull, joking, rhyming- crazy. But serious crazy. Like how serious he was as napier. And actually, the joker shouldnt have a catchphrase. He should be making stuff up all the time.


Why So Serioussssssssss?



http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1276/hahahahaha1au8.png

[BatSpider]

Why So Serioussssssssss?



http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1276/hahahahaha1au8.png

Why So Many Extra S's? :oldrazz:

[Sandouras]

Why So Serioussssssssss?



http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1276/hahahahaha1au8.png
lets see how much its used in the film. Maybe its only used once. But then again its something the joker would say. Its not funny, but its what he always asks, particularly of batsy.

"Have you ever danced with my granny under pale moonlight" only brings to mind that werewolf movie that jack made. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He might as well say Pacino's "Hooha".

[Saint]

Lastly, there was a repeating of lines. Difference is, not only was the execution by the actors superior in BR, but the circumstance didn't overtly come off as "superhero must tell something important to the damsel before he goes off in the night!"

The identity revelation in Begins annoyed me because it seemed like an afterthought--Bruce says "Oh, I'm Batman," and then they talk about it for a minute at the end. It was used as a vehicle expose Batman as the dominant personality in Bruce's mind, but that had already been done, and could have been solidified in a better way. Rachel discovering his identity was mostly pointless.

In Batman Returns, the relationship was not only far more interesting, by the revelation of their identities was much better, with more honest and interesting reactions.

Selena was a kindred spirit, as much damaged goods as Bruce himself, and they were both aware of this long before they knew each other's identities. They fit together nicely. The line-repeating wasn't what made their discovery work, but rather the reactions they had when they figured it out. Selena's "Do we have to start fighting" line sounds a little childish, but it's an honest reaction. Bruce's suggestion of moving outside to talk about this rang true, too. More importantly, though, was when they met again in the sewers. Batman Returns is about the price of vengeance, and Bruce is appealing to Selena to leave vengeance behind, because it's something he's struggled with, himself. The difference, of course, is that Bruce wants to dig himself out of that hole, and Selena doesn't.

In Begins, what reaction did Bruce and Rachel have? Bruce just says "Oh, I'm Batman" and jumps off a roof. Then, later, they have a little talk, and even though they're dealing with some major issues, neither seems very affected. Also, the conversation was backwards: Bruce should have been the one telling Rachel they couldn't have a relationship. In the film, Bruce's admittance of being Batman feels almost as if he's trying to impress her because her low opinion of him hurt his feelings. The real reason should have been that Bruce wanted to show her why they couldn't be together, a moment of honesty to respect the relationship they used to have. It should have been a moment where he decided she deserved more than lies, and an honest explanation of why there was no future for them, rather than a moment where he tried to prove his own worth.

Both B89 and BB deal with this idea of Bruce discovering that he can't have relationships with normal women while being Batman. I think B89 handled in a much more natural, truthful way, where as in Begins it seemed kind of forced. Even though in B89 they tried to make it work, the obvious implication when they spoke in the cave (before Bruce suits up) is that it's not going to work, and they're fooling themselves by trying.

Begins is the superior film, but Returns had easily the best relationship dynamic of any Batman film (except maybe Phantasm), and I'd say B89's relationship dynamic was better than BB's, too.

I would have loved to see Burton's "Batman Forever." Everything is so miserable at the end of Returns; Bruce's life as Batman has brought him to the absolute rock bottom. He's seen the what an obsession with vengeance did to Selena--and more importantly, the Penguin--and I expect a Burton-driven third film would have dealt with Bruce dealing with that obsessions in himself; leaving behind the killing and darker motivations we see in B89/BR. Schumacher's BF touched on this somewhat (With Bruce trying to teach Dick the consequences of murder), but it was marginalized and ruined by Bruce killing Dent at the end of the film (and also ruined by the sheer craptitude of the film).

[Reflectionist]

lets see how much its used in the film. Maybe its only used once. But then again its something the joker would say. Its not funny, but its what he always asks, particularly of batsy.

"Have you ever danced with my granny under pale moonlight" only brings to mind that werewolf movie that jack made. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He might as well say Pacino's "Hooha".

I don't know, i think I'd prefer it if he just skatted randomly. I could see him doing it. "Hello BATman.... I'm..... I'm.....--- 'I'm a Skat Man!' *cue music*"

[Mr. Socko]

lets see how much its used in the film. Maybe its only used once. But then again its something the joker would say. Its not funny, but its what he always asks, particularly of batsy.

"Have you ever danced with my granny under pale moonlight" only brings to mind that werewolf movie that jack made. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He might as well say Pacino's "Hooha".

But your original retort finished with: "And actually, the joker shouldnt have a catchphrase."

But hey, at least the "granny moonlight" 'catchphrase' was not on the official website, stated in the trailer, and plastered all over the posters:wow:

[gwynplaine]

Why So Many Extra S's? :oldrazz:
Maybe becausssse he isss Judge Death:woot: .

[SheldonLevene]

But your original retort finished with: "And actually, the joker shouldnt have a catchphrase."

But hey, at least the "granny moonlight" 'catchphrase' was not on the official website, stated in the trailer, and plastered all over the posters:wow:


Before it's said by someone else. B89 didn't have an official website Socko....DUH!!!:funny:

[Mr. Socko]

Before it's said by someone else. B89 didn't have an official website Socko....DUH!!!:funny:


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/backtothefront88/teolap7.jpg

[Sandouras]

Saint, Rachel spills it all out to the joker in TDK but somehow bruce keeps his identity secret in the end. Probably got to do something with the batmen imposters.

So i guess it is important she found out. Most people wanted that to happen anyway. Maybe Batman is to realise that the path he chose is one of loneliness

[Mr. Socko]

I thought the love interests were handled excellently in BR and BF. The others I didn't particularly care for. I thought Vale, like Rachel, came off as a rather boring character. She was okay but didn't have the wit or charm of her red headed comic book counterpart. But I'd put Vale above Rachel simply because Kim is a better actress than Katie and her character wasn't so 'in your face.'

[Sandouras]

Judging by the pattern a third movie about batman by burton would explore burton's character even more! there would be dwarfs and chocolate factorys and when inserting the theatre they would be giving you 3-d glasses and crack!

Obviously burton's romances were better because they were the story. In begins rachel only acts as some sort of wise friend helping bruce with advice to find his way. The story isnt about the romance, but about bruce becoming batman and not a killer. Also, it almost seems like out of the blue that she suddenly goes romantic at the end. True bruce should have been the one to tell her, but he still doesnt know the consequences of his path. That he might hurt her, or become a d1ck/scarred/psycho fighting crime, or that he might get killed.

And i dont think that he wanted to rub it in her face, rather to tell his friend what he is doing, like he tried to do in the hotel, but couldnt in front of all those people.

[Sandouras]

But your original retort finished with: "And actually, the joker shouldnt have a catchphrase."

But hey, at least the "granny moonlight" 'catchphrase' was not on the official website, stated in the trailer, and plastered all over the posters:wow:why is that bad?
If i was making a film about the joker i would put something like that on the posters. Like in a movie about superman fighting bizzaro i would put "bizarro likes superman" on the poster.

[gwynplaine]

why is that bad?
If i was making a film about the joker i would put something like that on the posters. Like in a movie about superman fighting bizzaro i would put "bizarro likes superman" on the poster.
Batzarro, world's worst detective FTW !

[Mr. Socko]

Judging by the pattern a third movie about batman by burton would explore burton's character even more! there would be dwarfs and chocolate factorys and when inserting the theatre they would be giving you 3-d glasses and crack!

Indeed, Burton's Batman 3 would have been an acid trip soaring to the netherworld. But as much as I'd have enjoyed that acid, I'm glad I got Batman Forever, I really liked it. It's what followed that ruined the row-boats. Fortunately Nolan reconstructed and we're back to wizzing through the river while the fires a-glowing.

why is that bad?
If i was making a film about the joker i would put something like that on the posters. Like in a movie about superman fighting bizzaro i would put "bizarro likes superman" on the poster.

I never said it was bad, hint my very next post following which can be applied to all of the first aforementioned.

[bunk]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/backtothefront88/teolap7.jpg

The facial expression is incredibly amusing to me. I can't not laugh when I look at it. :funny:

[Sandouras]

Teehee + Lol = Teol:lmao:

[lixdexia]

Teehee + Lol = Teol:lmao:
DAS TEOL FOR LIFE!!!!!!!:cmad:

[Conebone69]

lets see how much its used in the film. Maybe its only used once. But then again its something the joker would say. Its not funny, but its what he always asks, particularly of batsy.

"Have you ever danced with my granny under pale moonlight" only brings to mind that werewolf movie that jack made. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He might as well say Pacino's "Hooha".
I think he'll use it more then once in the film because basically the tagline of the movie already is "why so serious" and its on two posters, plus joker said it in the trailer. So I don think they would make that big of a deal about it if he only said it once. It'll probably be his catchphrase, similar to alfred's "Nevah!"

[Gianakin_]

Even if I found the "It's not who I am" line forced/bad/whatever at that point, the sheer fact that he utters it and jumps off to save Gotham would make up in pure bad-assery (like the moment where Bruce tells Vicki he'd like to try a relationship with her in B89 and the we get that FANTASTIC suiting up moment. Still gives me shivers).
Of course, I like its purpose AND the bad-assery, so I got the whole package.

[Sandouras]

Even if I found the "It's not who I am" line forced/bad/whatever at that point, the sheer fact that he utters it and jumps off to save Gotham would make up in pure bad-assery (like the moment where Bruce tells Vicki he'd like to try a relationship with her in B89 and the we get that FANTASTIC suiting up moment. Still gives me shivers).
Of course, I like its purpose AND the bad-assery, so I got the whole package.
Just saw it on youtube. It was terribly short. And it had no butt/package shots! :funny:

Best suiting up moments: Beginning of BF, BB right after the manour is burnt. Dont remember much from Burton to add there.

[Gianakin_]

Nah, the BF has the butt shot and BB was... well, not as good for me as the B89. The BB one is also of the same duration as the B89 one, if I recall correctly.