Batsuit Discussion Thread

[BmAaTn3625]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/DBLOUGH3625/thedarkknight3.jpg

[Boom]

I want a cowl that looks like the HUSH version.

[Two-Face]

Am I the only one who hates the white lense idea?


I don't like too, we need to see Bale's eyes and it's important we get emotions from the actor...

[BmAaTn3625]

Am I the only one who hates the white lense idea?

I really don't want lenses for the movie, however that does not mean I can't add them to manips and see how they will look

[Super Kal]

I hate the white lenses idea...

[BmAaTn3625]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/DBLOUGH3625/batmanbegins2.jpg

Hush style

[Boom]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/DBLOUGH3625/batmanbegins2.jpg

Hush style
Almost perfect. Get rid of that large bump in the back of his head.

[bunk]

I think they should switch to a paper bat emblem. It worked before...right? Anyone?http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9444/adamwestsuitkl1.jpg

[Batty Belfry]

Haha!

Dig the pouches made of wood, lol.

[bunk]

I know LOL! It actually looks purple really. This one's for real.
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7029/batcurtainaa9.jpg

[BmAaTn3625]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/DBLOUGH3625/batmanbegins3.jpg

[Rainer7]

That's crazy.

[batboy99]

I hate the white lenses idea...same here they look udderly stupid

[IamtheBatman]

The new modifications need to be kick ass and make the SpiderMan outfits look like sh&^.

[Super Kal]

another manip I did earlier...
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7707/255qp8preferredlp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

sorry about the grey/white line around Batman, that thing is tough to get rid of...

[chosen1]

Now that I think about the suit does need a little altering. The chest region is fine as well as the arms. But something is off from the belt down. His pants look like they dont go w/ the rest of the uniform. I think they are to baggy. Have the bottom half of the suit the buits especially slim down to go nicely with the pants. Kind of like spidermans suit. It wont be as skin tight because its nomex. so I would have a little bulk but not that much.

do you guys see what I'm talking about? or are you like :rolleyes: ?

[eXperiment]

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8975/designvf7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Naite22]

The suit SHOULDN'T be changed for TDK!!! It's so bad-ass the way it is, and nothing should be improved. That's one of the things that was so lame in the old ones, they changed it for every single movie! It was stupid. Besides if there will be changes, they'll be very minor.

[Boom]

The suit SHOULDN'T be changed for TDK!!! It's so bad-ass the way it is, and nothing should be improved. That's one of the things that was so lame in the old ones, they changed it for every single movie! It was stupid. Besides if there will be changes, they'll be very minor.
Ah, thanks for clarifying, Nolan. By the way, how's The Prestige coming along?

[bunk]

The suit SHOULDN'T be changed for TDK!!! It's so bad-ass the way it is, and nothing should be improved. That's one of the things that was so lame in the old ones, they changed it for every single movie! It was stupid. Besides if there will be changes, they'll be very minor.

...nothing should be improved? Yeah, I guess you're right, improving things just leads to higher quality.

[BmAaTn3625]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/DBLOUGH3625/thedarkknight3.jpg

[BmAaTn3625]

sorry wrong pic

[E-Mack]

Yikes. The suit design team reeeaalllly needs to fix that "bunching up" issue when Bale is in different poses. Look at those "Armored abs". lol. :(

[Naite22]

...nothing should be improved? Yeah, I guess you're right, improving things just leads to higher quality.
That's so beautifully put... it worked wonders for the old movie's right... oh yeah, let's give Bats nipples! Sure thing pal, you just keep telling your self that!:up: :o

[Naite22]

Ah, thanks for clarifying, Nolan. By the way, how's The Prestige coming along?
You're so funny, I just can't stop laughing.... What's your problem pal, I'm simply telling the truth. The suit is cool the way it is! Stop messing with things that's already beautiful. Somebody should've told George Lucas this!

[E-Mack]

That's so beautifully put... it worked wonders for the old movie's right... oh yeah, let's give Bats nipples! Sure thing pal, you just keep telling your self that!:up: :o
Yes, because "improving" is synonymous with bastardizing a suit, ala nipples. :dry:

Did you ever wonder that maybe they can improve the suit's mobility (which we all damn know was far from perfect), and it's constant bulging effect because of the thick rubber?

[BmAaTn3625]

You're so funny, I just can't stop laughing.... What's your problem pal, I'm simply telling the truth. The suit is cool the way it is! Stop messing with things that's already beautiful. Somebody should've told George Lucas this!

Nobody uses the word Pal anymore. Glad to see it back in the mix. I actually agree that the suit doesn't need change, but there will be some treaking, I don't think however that the changes will be overly drastic

[Boom]

You're so funny, I just can't stop laughing.... What's your problem pal, I'm simply telling the truth. The suit is cool the way it is! Stop messing with things that's already beautiful. Somebody should've told George Lucas this!
I'm really not interested in arguing about this again.

Nothing should be improved, you say? So flexibility and mobility shouldn't be improved? What about the weight of the suit?

As mentioned before, improvements = higher quality. It's really a flawless concept.

[Super Kal]

It needs to be changed... the movements on the costume need to be tightened up a bit so that creases dont show up so easily when he's in poses

[Boom]

I really do hope this report turns out to be true. I'd love to see an alternative material used for the suit (preferably one that doesn't bunch up and crease as much). Even the designer of the Begins suit admitted that they only chose foam latex due to time constraints. Now that they have more time to experiment, I'm hoping to see a material used that ultimately yields a better looking suit.

Aesthetically, the only thing I REALLY want modified is the cowl. I have a love-hate relationship with the Begins cowl. it has certain qualities I like, but I hate the execution in terms of shape.

[Bathead]

Well, regardless of whether or not anyone thinks the suit should be changed, it *will be*. Most likely minor tweaks, so it doesn't look as thrown together. but changes nonetheless.

[Bathead]

Double post - sorry!

[Naite22]

I'm really not interested in arguing about this again.

Nothing should be improved, you say? So flexibility and mobility shouldn't be improved? What about the weight of the suit?

As mentioned before, improvements = higher quality. It's really a flawless concept.
Whatever, but it shouldn't be noticable.

[Herr Logan]

Actually the two extra points near the tail on the B'89 symbol would represent the feet of an actual bat.
And Logan, I was thinking your idea of the trunks as harness makes a lot of sense as it would relate to Begins. The way Batman uses the grappling gun (shooting out a line, looping the line around the belt buckle and attaching the gun to the back of the belt) would absolutely require that extra support.

Thanks, Bathead. :) :up:

:wolverine

[Hotwire]

Sory, but it looks like he's wearing a black jock-strap in this one.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/mkrolfe/thedarkknight3.jpg

[The Last Meatbag]

and the wrinkled abs ruins the whole picture :(

[Super Kal]

yeah, it does... I would rather see something closer to how Spiderman's suit was made, something that clings to the skin, but still shows off the muscles...

[The Last Meatbag]

I want a kinda cloth over armor thing done :o

[Mr. Vice]

Sory, but it looks like he's wearing a black jock-strap in this one.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/mkrolfe/thedarkknight3.jpg

Those ears are ridiculous.:o

[Substance D]

Alright, I took some time and put together what I consider to be the ideal batcostume. I should specifiy, though, that this kind of costume probably would not fit in Nolan's film, so I am content to stick with the Begins costume (with improvments) since I like it also. The costume below would work best in another reboot following the conclusion of Nolan's series.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8386/ultimatebatsuitos8.jpg

In the top left corner is the original artwork of "Cosen-1." In the top right corner is a drawing of mine showing the design I use when drawing the comic version of Batman. In the bottom left is my drawing translated into a movie costume by manipulating Chosen-1's art. Honestly, until I did that manip I wasn't convinced my design could be made to look good, but I think it looks fantastic there. However, since I know a lot of people don't like my take on the batcowl, I also did the alternative on the bottom right, which is more traditional.

why is batman stealing wolverine's look?

[Saint]

Because that's how I like to draw the cowl.

Though, I've never found that they look overly similar (http://personal.ecu.edu/bsb0728/wolverine-1024x768.jpg). At least not to the extent of being bothersome.

[super-t]

I want a kinda cloth over armor thing done :o

i know that does sound like the right way to go i wish i could see it.

[super-t]

the cloth could be like a miliskin that protects the armor or gives extra protection, or maybe it could be water proof to protect the armor who knows how u could fit it in.

[7Hells]

The suit SHOULDN'T be changed for TDK!!! It's so bad-ass the way it is, and nothing should be improved. That's one of the things that was so lame in the old ones, they changed it for every single movie!
Changing the suit fits the continuity of Batman as a natural hero. His suit should update, just as the Batmobile should update, with new technologies.

I really wouldnt mind the contacts, it would be an incredible gift to the comic fans and could be explained easily in Nolans world. The way Bale plays Batman its all about the voice anyway. I mean, watch BB again and ask yourself exactly how much emotion you can see just from Bales eyes.
An actor cant change their actual eye to look menacing. Unless they can dilate their pupil on command ;)
Its everything its attached to, and with Batman you cant see any of that.

[The Fallen]

I can dilate my pupils on command, watch.... :eek: . There! Now with these damn lenses, I can do with or without them, doesn't bother me. It be cool if they were bulit into the cowl and came down over his eyes when needed.

And the suit. I like the Begins suit, however, if changes can be made to improve the suit's perfromance for the actor inside it, do it.:up:

[7Hells]

I dont like the idea of lenses.
It just seems like it would be a logistical nightmare and may look a bit corny. I definately dont want to see the lenses going up and down. I know they would have to be able to do that but I just dont want to see it. When I picture it in my head I shudder...I can just hear a high pitched vVvfft sound...

I like the idea of contacts because it will be easier for a bit of CGI effects.
Like Wayne experienced while training and intoxicated.

[Bathead]

Besides, it's really a misconception that the eyes show emotion. It's actually more the eyebrows that do that. The only thing being able to see the pupils does is show which direction one is looking.

[Hotwire]

I dont like the idea of lenses.
It just seems like it would be a logistical nightmare and may look a bit corny. I definately dont want to see the lenses going up and down. I know they would have to be able to do that but I just dont want to see it. When I picture it in my head I shudder...I can just hear a high pitched vVvfft sound...

I like the idea of contacts because it will be easier for a bit of CGI effects.
Like Wayne experienced while training and intoxicated.
Why would they have to go up and down? They could stay in place. Think of them as eye protection and it would add a little more faithfulness to the costume.

[GhostRider5006]

i want the big silver bat on hsi chest just like BMAR.

[Two-Face]

Good luck with that, ain't gonna happen :o

[GhostRider5006]

but me like that big silver bat. (frowns)

[Mr. Vice]

but me like that big silver bat. (frowns)

You're probably the only one.:rolleyes:

[bunk]

Doesn't Bruce wear some kinda split toe ninja boots when he trained with Ra's? Why didn't he carry that over to the suit, it's much easier to run on ledges and ropes what not.

[Mr. Vice]

Doesn't Bruce wear some kinda split toe ninja boots when he trained with Ra's? Why didn't he carry that over to the suit, it's much easier to run on ledges and ropes what not.

Do you know how *****ty that would look? Split toe boots?:confused:

[Wams]

Doesn't Bruce wear some kinda split toe ninja boots when he trained with Ra's? Why didn't he carry that over to the suit, it's much easier to run on ledges and ropes what not.

That is actually a very cool idea.:up:
It would keep the creature Bat look going.:up:

:spidey:
:supes:

[Brian Braddock]

Do you know how *****ty that would look? Split toe boots?:confused:

Yeah; costume design - wise it would look a bit weird having 'Tabi' style boots as part of the Bat costume, (hence why they werent utilised by the designers), but from a character aspect, I doubt that was Bruce's main reason for not using them.

A Batman concerned about his fashion sense?! :O

[7Hells]

Why would they have to go up and down? They could stay in place. Think of them as eye protection and it would add a little more faithfulness to the costume.
I am afraid the look of lenses would just add more obstruction to Batman during fighting. Not to mention if lenses were used to give us the desired effect of the comics they would have to make the eyeholes in the suit smaller. Otherwise his eyes would look huge. And thats not the look from the comics.
I always felt the white eyes gave him a supernatural look, natural being the scarriest part. Batman with shiny sunglasses would look a bit funny.
Doesn't Bruce wear some kinda split toe ninja boots when he trained with Ra's? Why didn't he carry that over to the suit, it's much easier to run on ledges and ropes what not.
Considering Batman does a lot of landing on hard surfaces I can see why a boot might be better. Doesnt matter how soft you land when dropping from a distance like that.

[Savage]

I actually like the idea of the split toe boots. They'd be pointed at the end so they'd look like hooves.

As for the lense thing, I'd like them to pull a Green Goblin on this one. Have them slide down when necessary but don't keep them on all the time. Then for those few brief moments we can geek out the homage to his comic book look but that's about it.

[Brian Braddock]

The 'split toe boots' have a proper name. They're called Tabi boots/shoes.

Just thought some people might be interested.

:D

[Savage]

Oh yeah, here's another thing. Doesn't Robin(Tim Drake) wear Tabi boots? Well there you go. Right from the master himself.:up: :)

[Brian Braddock]

Oh yeah, here's another thing. Doesn't Robin(Tim Drake) wear Tabi boots? Well there you go. Right from the master himself.:up: :)


:D.

Yeah, he does. It never occurred to me.

Good spot. :up:

[bunk]

Considering Batman does a lot of landing on hard surfaces I can see why a boot might be better. Doesnt matter how soft you land when dropping from a distance like that.[/quote]

Well he does tend to glide a lot...

[7Hells]

Well he does tend to glide a lot...
Yes, but he still comes in fast.

[Mr. Superhero]

This should be the new Batsuit...

http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/images/news/news_201205_01_large.jpg

Or this...

http://zzacmann.250free.com/New-Batsuit.jpg

Personally, I'd go for the first one. It's more "Dark Knight'ish" so to speak. The second one's okay, bit girlish. :down I don't quite fancy watching Batman have a nipple irrection everytime he glides...

[Savage]

hence Tabi boot. Make it a regular boot, just with a split toe for better manuverability...Besides that, it makes him appear even less human.

[Mr. Vice]

This should be the new Batsuit...

http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/images/news/news_201205_01_large.jpg

Or this...

http://zzacmann.250free.com/New-Batsuit.jpg

Personally, I'd go for the first one. It's more "Dark Knight'ish" so to speak. The second one's okay, bit girlish. :down I don't quite fancy watching Batman have a nipple irrection everytime he glides...

Was that suppose to make me laugh?:confused:

[Mr. Superhero]

Was that suppose to make me laugh?:confused:
No, it was meant to make other people laugh. :up:

I've banned you from laughing at my jokes, so move along... nothing for you to see here...

[Mr. Vice]

No, it was meant to make other people laugh. :up:

I've banned you from laughing at my jokes, so move along... nothing for you to see here...

Other people did laugh........A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.:o

[Mr. Superhero]

Other people did laugh........A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.:o
I'm laughing at you right now... but you don't hear me complaining, you touchy little Vice boy...

http://justtools.com.au/images/record%20drill%20press%20vice.jpg

[Mr. Vice]

I'm laughing at you right now... but you don't hear me complaining, you touchy little Vice boy...

http://justtools.com.au/images/record%20drill%20press%20vice.jpg

:o You've failed. AGAIN.

[Mr. Superhero]

:o You've failed. AGAIN.
Failed at what...? :confused:

BTW, You're really **** at arguing...

[Mr. Vice]

Failed at what...? :confused:

BTW, You're really **** at arguing...

And you really, really suck at being intelligent. :up:

[Mr. Superhero]

And you really, really suck at being intelligent. :up:
:confused: :confused: :confused:

How can you suck at being intelligent?...Actually, how ironic! :D

[Mr. Vice]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

How can you suck at being intelligent?...Actually, how ironic! :D

Easy, just look at your all of your posts. :up:

[Mr. Superhero]

Easy, just look at your all of your posts. :up:
Just gone through them...

...All I saw was me OWNING you!! :D

[Mr. Vice]

Just gone through them...

...All I saw was me OWNING you!! :D

Look harder.

[Mr. Superhero]

Look harder.
Bored.

[Mr. Vice]

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8975/designvf7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This one's good, just switch the lower part to grey.:up:

[Mr. Superhero]

This one's good, just switch the lower part to grey.:up:
I prefer it black...

[Mr. Vice]

I prefer it black...

Two each his own...

[batboy99]

This should be the new Batsuit...

http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/images/news/news_201205_01_large.jpg

Or this...

http://zzacmann.250free.com/New-Batsuit.jpg

Personally, I'd go for the first one. It's more "Dark Knight'ish" so to speak. The second one's okay, bit girlish. :down I don't quite fancy watching Batman have a nipple irrection everytime he glides...:confused: this isnt even funny this is disgusting

[Mr. Superhero]

:confused: this isnt even funny this is disgusting
Bored... you big girls blouse.

[bunk]

Can somebody give me a real reason why they can't make the cowl and cape one piece or don't want to?

[Boom]

Can somebody give me a real reason why they can't make the cowl and cape one piece or don't want to?
If something were to happen that would require Batman to take off his cape (ex. it getting caught in machinery), he would be able to remove it without compromising his true identity.

Of course they could go the route that was used in TAS, and have Bruce wear a thin face mask underneath of the cowl.

[DorkyFresh]

Can somebody give me a real reason why they can't make the cowl and cape one piece or don't want to?
go try making a one piece cape/cowl that looks good while being able to freely move your head and then come back and ask why they can't make a one piece cape/cowl.

[lujho]

Can somebody give me a real reason why they can't make the cowl and cape one piece or don't want to?

It's 2-piece in the comic though. The seam is never drawn, but you see Batman with just the cowl and no cape, or vice versa, often enough to definitively establish that they are separate pieces.

[bunk]

go try making a one piece cape/cowl that looks good while being able to freely move your head and then come back and ask why they can't make a one piece cape/cowl.

Yer kiddin' me right? I couldn't make a one piece headband. I'm no hollywood costume designer. The 89 suit was one piece and I would think by now they could design something with the movement of BB. It's probably more the fact they want to use a different materials for the cape and cowl. To avoid any problems with the cape getting caught all they have to do is not write it into the script.

[lujho]

Not to mention if lenses were used to give us the desired effect of the comics they would have to make the eyeholes in the suit smaller

So... make them smaller. Not much of a problem there.

It's already been done - just improve on what Daredevil did, by tweaking the shape a bit.

[batboy99]

Bored... you big girls blouse.huh?:confused:

[7Hells]

So... make them smaller. Not much of a problem there.

It's already been done - just improve on what Daredevil did, by tweaking the shape a bit.
umm Daredevil doesnt need to be able to see....

[bunk]

It's 2-piece in the comic though. The seam is never drawn, but you see Batman with just the cowl and no cape, or vice versa, often enough to definitively establish that they are separate pieces.

Yeah..I've seen that, usually he has the mask down around his neck, not completely off. Yuns reasons make sense though. I was just thinking about the 89 suit. I liked how the cape and cowl blended together.
BTW, I definetly want to see more of Bruce in the cave with just the cape on, working at the computer or something. That one quick shot in Begins was cool.

[lujho]

umm Daredevil doesnt need to be able to see....

Uh, this again. So the hell what? What does that change?

In the real world, Ben Affleck and all his stuntmen needed to see - and could. In the story world, no-one knew DD was blind and assumed he could see - and in fact if he wasn't blind, he would have been able to see through the lenses.

Because lenses are... see-through. So you can "see though" them. That's what they're for. Seeing through.

[lujho]

I was just thinking about the 89 suit. I liked how the cape and cowl blended together.

They didn't really, though. There was still a join... it was just lower down. But sure, there's no reason they couldn't do something similar again, like your drawing of the cowl.

[bunk]

Werd.

[7Hells]

Because lenses are... see-through. So you can "see though" them. That's what they're for. Seeing through.
Making the eyeholes smaller lends to even more limitations to Batman's peripheral vision. Contacts could be explained in numerous ways that could add to his vision. That and CGI possibilities would be greater and less obvious with a smaller target like ones eye socket rather than a larger target as the lenses would have to be.

[lujho]

Making the eyeholes smaller lends to even more limitations to Batman's peripheral vision.

Not enough to matter in any significant way. It's just a movie. As long as Christian Bale can see well enough to act... that's all that matters.

If the mask is thin enough and close to the face, the eyes can be as small as they need to be.

[7Hells]

I dont see how the area around the lense can be thin when the lenses move up and down. And if the lense protrudes pas the mask and is as thin as you suggest then how could it withstand blows to the face?
Lenses are just a logistical nightmare.
Contacts are easier and will look better once CGI is added.

But I see by your avatar that we shall never agree so lets agree to disagree :)

[Thot]

Sory, but it looks like he's wearing a black jock-strap in this one.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/mkrolfe/thedarkknight3.jpg

Very cool! I dig the grey/black look. The ears are sweet too. The BB ears are a bit too short.
Well done!!

[JBElliott]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/mkrolfe/thedarkknight3.jpg

Nice pic of the bat spare tire. :rolleyes:

[Savage]

Yeah, it's kind of disillusioning when they SHOW you that it's hard armor underneath only to have it bend like foam rubber.

[lujho]

I dont see how the area around the lense can be thin when the lenses move up and down.

I'm personally not advocating retractable lenses - that *would* be impractical. Wouldn't work right without obvious cheating (i.e. making them disappear into somewhere where the couldn't really fit).

And if the lense protrudes pas the mask

I don't know what you mean by that - I didn't say anything like that. They'd be firmly embedded in the mask - as in Daredevil.

and is as thin as you suggest then how could it withstand blows to the face?

By being made of something very tough? they're not going to be made of wineglass crystal or anything.


Lenses are just a logistical nightmare.


Yet done entirely without problem in Daredevil.

But I see by your avatar that we shall never agree so lets agree to disagree :)

You can't disagree that it's been done though in Daredevil, and pretty much looking almost exactly how Batman's would. You might not want them, that's fine, but you can't deny it's do-able.

[explode7]

^And Daredevil is a sucky character not even worth mentioning.

[Savage]

Is not!

[taskmaster]

What about retractable lenses? During scenes where the bat is suppose to be intimidating the lenses would there and during the scenes where he has to show emotion, they would retract. Being a billionaire, I'm sure bruce could make this happen.

[7Hells]

Theeeee wheels on the bus go round and round...

[explode7]

^Eggsactly

[Savage]

He's intimidating enough without the lenses. We don't need them going up and down.

[Super Kal]

He's intimidating enough without the lenses. We don't need them going up and down.
i completely agree

[explode7]

Why?

[Mr. Vice]

Why?

Bale's eyes are good enough. :up:

[Sun_Down]

Yeah, it's kind of disillusioning when they SHOW you that it's hard armor underneath only to have it bend like foam rubber.

Which is why, unless they completely change the costume, it'll probably stay black. It's a shame, because the grey manips look great.

[StorminNorman]

Grey looks great - Black is better.

[Hotwire]

He's intimidating enough without the lenses. We don't need them going up and down.
Ok, so we stick with the black eye make-up that magically disappears when the cowl comes off. I for one, would like to see a good manip that puts white lenses intothe cowl that completely cover his eyes.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Grey looks great - Black is better.

I agree that black looks cooler than grey, but one of the problems I have with the Begins costume is the black-logo on the black-armor. The other movies avoided this problem with yellow oval (which everyone else seems to hate, but I loved) I think the emblem needs to me more distinguishible from the rest of the suit. Although I've never been a fan of Batman in grey, I think the manips here look awesome. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing the bat-suit lighten just a little bit, with the cape, cowl, emblem, gloves, and boots staying jet-black.

[Thespiralgoeson]

How about the emblem just gets outlined in grey?

Interesting idea, but hard to picture. I'd like to see a manip like that.

[Hotwire]

How about the emblem just gets outlined in grey?
Or maybe outlined in the same gold color as the belt???

[Savage]

That's very Batgirl-ish.

[Two-Face]

Yellow emblem?? I don't see it.

[Savage]

I think he means the black bat, with gold lining the outside. Like the current Batgirl's costume. Looks nice when I imagine it but...then he just wouldn't be Batman to me. I like the basic black bat.

[7Hells]

The belt is a dark enough gold to work as the outline of the bat symbol.
I like that idea, it would be a great compromise for comic fans.

[Steelsheen]

Or maybe outlined in the same gold color as the belt???

it MAY come across as Batgirl-ish, but then it will depend all on what the design will look like in the end. a manip would help.

[trustyside-kick]

What about retractable lenses? During scenes where the bat is suppose to be intimidating the lenses would there and during the scenes where he has to show emotion, they would retract. Being a billionaire, I'm sure bruce could make this happen.

I don't know about retractable lenses for just whenever...but take Hush for example. There is the part where Bats and Nightwing take down Riddler and his goons. At the end Batman switches to an infrared lens and looks for some kind of dust.

Basically, he should have em for like nightvision or infrared or whatever visions he would need but not for just the heck of it.

[Bathead]

edit

[Bathead]

Again, May I point out being able to see the pupils has nothing to do with showing emotion. It's the eyebrows that do that. All seeing the pupils does is show what direction one is looking and a reaction to light.

[Mr. Socko]

Only a few alterations should be made. Nothing drastic.

[BatScot]

Sory, but it looks like he's wearing a black jock-strap in this one.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/mkrolfe/thedarkknight3.jpgWell... it does look like he is wearing a black jock-strap doesn't it, which means that the Begins suit must also appear like someone wearing a black jock-strap since for all intents and purposes what you are seeing here is the Begins... so what you identify here as a "jock-strap" is not a result of the manip but something that is inherent in the original.

[BatScot]

Grey looks great - Black is better.And put them together and you have the best!

[BatScot]

Batman never had nor does he need retractable lenses to be intimidating.Nor does his intimidation factor require that his enemies see his eyes.

[Wams]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/nwonknu2k/5e775acb.jpg

:spidey:
:supes:

[batboy99]

thats a cool costume but i dont wanna see grey and bat undies

[Wams]

thats a cool costume but i dont wanna see grey and bat undies

You don't like Batman? :confused:

:spidey:
:supes:

[batboy99]

You don't like Batman? :confused:

:spidey:
:supes:wtf that has nothing to do with it,i like it in comics not for a movie,would u like to see a guy running around in his undies,and ive liked batman since i was 2 :o

[Poetic Chaos]

Has Batman ever had a black costume in the comics?

[batboy99]

ya i think so

[Brian Braddock]

Yeah, after he returned from his broken back they tried an all-black costume.

I thought it looked good; others obviously didn't because they changed it pretty fast.

[Bathead]

Yeah, after he returned from his broken back they tried an all-black costume.

I thought it looked good; others obviously didn't because they changed it pretty fast.
They also tried a grey -black costume without trunks. (NOT undies, you disrespectful heathens!) It looked awful, and that one too quickly went away. And this idea that what works in the comics won't work in the movies is ridiculous. How do you know that for a fact when it's never even been tried?
Dead End doesn't count, as it was a low budget fan-film, not a major Hollywood production.

[Wams]

You can like Batman and hate a version of his costume.
Were you a fan of the Bat-nipples?:o

Im referring to the comic book history....Not trying to offend you.
BUT technically speaking all the movie costumes were made very
well.
Is it how I would make the suit?...No....
But it was a valid Batman interpretation for film.

:spidey:
:supes:

[Poetic Chaos]

Superman can do it.
Spider-Man can do it.
Batman should do it.

[kenellard]

Superman can do it.
Spider-Man can do it.
Batman should do it.

em....put his back into it?

[Poetic Chaos]

lol, exactly

[7Hells]

Superman can do it.
Spider-Man can do it.
Batman should do it.
Thats not a good comparison...
Spider-man and Superman have a completely different feel than Batman.
Especially in the comics.

[bunk]

Has Batman ever had a black costume in the comics?

Yeah it looked terrible, if it was done nowadays it could look cool though.

[StorminNorman]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/nwonknu2k/5e775acb.jpg

:spidey:
:supes:

HOLY BAT THONG BATMAN!

[Katsuro]

They also tried a grey -black costume without trunks. (NOT undies, you disrespectful heathens!) It looked awful, and that one too quickly went away. And this idea that what works in the comics won't work in the movies is ridiculous. How do you know that for a fact when it's never even been tried?
Dead End doesn't count, as it was a low budget fan-film, not a major Hollywood production.

I sincerely doubt that cloth-based costumes were not at least experimented with before both B'89 and Batman Begins. They never just outright decide on a single costume, they draw up plans, test different materials, and whatnot. For all we know, an expensive cloth costume was made up for Begins, and they realized it looked balls nasty, and went with armor.

Also, blue and grey works in the comics, but would you want to see that in the film?

[Brian Braddock]

I sincerely doubt that cloth-based costumes were not at least experimented with before both B'89 and Batman Begins. They never just outright decide on a single costume, they draw up plans, test different materials, and whatnot. For all we know, an expensive cloth costume was made up for Begins, and they realized it looked balls nasty, and went with armor.

Also, blue and grey works in the comics, but would you want to see that in the film?

Burton always said that he didnt want his Batman to be just a bodybuilder-type in a spandex costume, ''you might as well just have got Arnold'' (Burton's own words).

Burton always favoured a man of normal proportions in a sculptured/armoured suit.

[StorminNorman]

Burton always said that he didnt want his Batman to be just a bodybuilder-type in a spandex costume, ''you might as well just have got Arnold'' (Burton's own words).

Burton always favoured a man of normal proportions in a sculptured/armoured suit.

Again, Burton just didn't get Batman :(

[kenellard]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/mkrolfe/thedarkknight3.jpg

Everyone notice those folds in Bats' "armour" right there? Well that's not because it's a poorly thought out and constructed rubber suit, in fact the bulges actually provide extra ventillation around bat's midsection, which is explained in a two hour documentary on the 8 disc hd-dvd coming out in time for christmas, check it out people!

[StorminNorman]

8 discs you say? *Drools*

[StorminNorman]

edit

[Bathead]

I sincerely doubt that cloth-based costumes were not at least experimented with before both B'89 and Batman Begins. They never just outright decide on a single costume, they draw up plans, test different materials, and whatnot. For all we know, an expensive cloth costume was made up for Begins, and they realized it looked balls nasty, and went with armor.

Also, blue and grey works in the comics, but would you want to see that in the film?

"I sincerely doubt ...", "For all we know ..." ?
You're just guessing.
You don't know for a fact that they did try a grey-black costume (BTW , I never said anything about cloth) and rejected it. A speculation that is just as valid as yours is that Nolan wanted a traditional look, but was told by the WB suits he had to use a black rubber suit, as it was more familiar to movie-goers.
And personally, I prefer black and grey over the blue and grey any day, comics OR movies. No phony rationalizations, its just my preference.

[Bathead]

I sincerely doubt that cloth-based costumes were not at least experimented with before both B'89 and Batman Begins. They never just outright decide on a single costume, they draw up plans, test different materials, and whatnot. For all we know, an expensive cloth costume was made up for Begins, and they realized it looked balls nasty, and went with armor.

Also, blue and grey works in the comics, but would you want to see that in the film?

"I sincerely doubt ...", "For all we know ..." ?
You're just guessing.
You don't know for a fact that they did try a grey-black costume (BTW , I never said anything about cloth) and rejected it. A speculation that is just as valid as yours is that Nolan wanted a traditional look, but was told by the WB suits he had to use a black rubber suit, as it was more familiar to movie-goers.
And personally, I prefer black and grey over the blue and grey any day, comics OR movies. No phony rationalizations, its just my preference.

[BatScot]

HOLY BAT THONG BATMAN!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Misc/BBthongX.jpg

... Doh!

HOLY BATMAN BEGINS THONG!

Ya know, if one were forced to wear a thong methinks one would choose the one made of cloth rather than the one made of rubber... unless, of course, you prefer your balz a bit on the sweaty side.

[Cobblepot]

The only thing I dislike are the dishwashing gloves, just give him some leather gloves.

[StorminNorman]

That Bat Thong however is the same color as the suit, so its not noticable.

Also - the Batman Begins suit is not rubber. It is made out of a material very similar to dive suits.

[batmaluco]

Almost two years ago:

Christian Bale Talks Batman
By James Wray
Sep 16, 2004, 19:00 GMT



IGN Filmforce have been speaking to Christian Bale on the set of Batman Begins...

On the Batsuit: "I'm not going to bit** about the suit, you know? There's a quote from me that some of the people had on the back of their t-shirt that said, 'It's hot, dark and sweaty and it gives me a headache,' which is absolutely true, but there's nothing more annoying than hearing actors bit** about their work and stuff like that. You know, I'm playing Batman, for gosh sakes. That's pretty fantastic. I'm not going to complain about getting a little bit sweaty..."

http://movies.monstersandcritics.com/news/printer_1486.php
:woot:

[batmaluco]

But we all know that everything can be improved.
Bale certainly also knows this.

[BatScot]

That Bat Thong however is the same color as the suit, so its not noticable.A thong is a thong.

Also - the Batman Begins suit is not rubber.And rubber by any other name...

"by the time you’ve put [the batsuit] on you’re almost 100% covered in neoprene or rubber."
http://www.batman-on-film.com/setreport3.html

"Neoprene polychloroprene IS an extremely versatile synthetic rubber..."
http://www.dupontelastomers.com/Products/Neoprene/neoprene.asp

... is rubber, as is the Begins suit.

[BatScot]

Over two years ago:

BOF BATMAN BEGINS set report #3--Day March and The Bat-suit!
by Paul J. Wares
Wednesday, January 5, 2005

Day Murch:

"I’m sure there are better materials other than neoprene it’s just that I didn’t get to find them in time."

http://www.batman-on-film.com/setreport3.html

Everything can be improved. And, moreover, somethings should be improved.
And the filmmakers themselves certainly know this.

[Boom]

Over two years ago:

BOF BATMAN BEGINS set report #3--Day March and The Bat-suit!
by Paul J. Wares
Wednesday, January 5, 2005

Day Murch:

"I’m sure there are better materials other than neoprene it’s just that I didn’t get to find them in time."

http://www.batman-on-film.com/setreport3.html

Everything can be improved. And, moreover, somethings should be improved.
And the filmmakers themselves certainly know this.
This is why I hope they actually try something new with this film. The costume designer flat out said there are better materials to use. Well, use them. You have plenty of time to find them.

[lujho]

... is rubber, as is the Begins suit.

Whether neoprene is rubber or not is besides the point though, really. It's the sculpted foam latex (also rubber) that you can see, not the neoprene. The neoprene is almost completely invisible - it's covered up. Which makes it a sculpted foam latex suit, from a visual standpoint. (I'm sure you know this BatScot, I was stating it for the benefit of others).

For it to be a neoprene suit, they'd have to remove the foam latex, or better yet put it under the neoprene.

[BatScot]

Whether neoprene is rubber or not is besides the point though, really. It's the sculpted foam latex (also rubber) that you can see, not the neoprene. The neoprene is almost completely invisible - it's covered up. Which makes it a sculpted foam latex suit, from a visual standpoint. (I'm sure you know this BatScot, I was stating it for the benefit of others).

For it to be a neoprene suit, they'd have to remove the foam latex, or better yet put it under the neoprene.That's absolutely correct; the neoprene under-suit exists primarily as a support layer for the foam rubber appliqués which characterize the suit as it is generally known. The bottom line is that the Begins suit is a rubber suit, no matter how you attempt to describe it, or whether you are referring to the neoprene ‘wetsuit’ or the foam rubber, and it's astonishing to me that anyone would attempt to declare otherwise at this point in the discussion as that fact has been common knowledge from day one.

[Jager X]

i would like to see the batsuit with a more human look to it.for the first movie the plates on the suit worked since it was his first suit and the fact that he looked like a big ass demon to fear-gas induced gothamites only solidified fear into the hearts of men.but i want to see muscles underneath the suit that is more realistic and closer to the human body.

[Batty Belfry]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Anthropod/Misc/BBthongX.jpg

... Doh!

HOLY BATMAN BEGINS THONG!

Ya know, if one were forced to wear a thong methinks one would choose the one made of cloth rather than the one made of rubber... unless, of course, you prefer your balz a bit on the sweaty side.

Thankfully the way the movie was shot you never really saw the batawear. :batty: At least he didn't have his own face on his underpants. :D

My only complaint with the BB suit was the lack of storage space in the belt pouches. There was only what, 2? I bet I could barely get a pack of cigs in there.

[bunk]

That's absolutely correct; the neoprene under-suit exists primarily as a support layer for the foam rubber appliqués which characterize the suit as it is generally known. The bottom line is that the Begins suit is a rubber suit, no matter how you attempt to describe it, or whether you are referring to the neoprene ‘wetsuit’ or the foam rubber, and it's astonishing to me that anyone would attempt to declare otherwise at this point in the discussion as that fact has been common knowledge from day one.

The other drawback to foam rubber is the difficulty of getting a really dark black. If they could find another material that would be even darker it would be great. The rubber suit practically grey already compared to the cape.

[Boom]

The other drawback to foam rubber is the difficulty of getting a really dark black. If they could find another material that would be even darker it would be great. The rubber suit practically grey already compared to the cape.
My thoughts exactly.

[Steelsheen]

Almost two years ago:

Christian Bale Talks Batman
By James Wray
Sep 16, 2004, 19:00 GMT



IGN Filmforce have been speaking to Christian Bale on the set of Batman Begins...

On the Batsuit: "I'm not going to bit** about the suit, you know? There's a quote from me that some of the people had on the back of their t-shirt that said, 'It's hot, dark and sweaty and it gives me a headache,' which is absolutely true, but there's nothing more annoying than hearing actors bit** about their work and stuff like that. You know, I'm playing Batman, for gosh sakes. That's pretty fantastic. I'm not going to complain about getting a little bit sweaty..."

http://movies.monstersandcritics.com/news/printer_1486.php
:woot:

i've been looking over at some of the hi-res photos of Bale in the suit, and i notice that is some of those his eyes are bloodshot. i wonder just how bad those headaches are....

[BatScot]

The other drawback to foam rubber is the difficulty of getting a really dark black. If they could find another material that would be even darker it would be great. The rubber suit practically grey already compared to the cape.One man's garbage is another man's treasure... Batman does not need to be decked out in the blackest of black in order to be dark.

[Wams]

One man's garbage is another man's treasure... Batman does not need to be decked out in the blackest of black in order to be dark.


Agreed.:up:

:spidey:
:supes:

[batmanbeginsboy]

yeah but if he wears things that stand out in the light then that defeats the purpose of batman being sneaky, take that scene when batman was in the apartment for example when he crouched he was invisible basically, however if you threw a little yellow or grey BAMMM. batman would've been seen immediately.

[Saint]

No it wouldn't have. He has a cape to cover that sort of thing.

See, I don't even want a yellow oval (I prefer the alternative), but people really need to stop coming up with lame rationalizations for their likes or dislikes, because as I always say, you can justify ANYTHING in fiction if you try hard enough.

[batmanbeginsboy]

yeah but if you're making a real-like movie then you want to be in dark clothing.dont get me wrong though u had a good point with the cape idea. i mean its true but i kinda like the all black suit im not the biggest fan of a grey suit with black in it jus IMO

[BatScot]

yeah but if you're making a real-like movie then you want to be in dark clothing.dont get me wrong though u had a good point with the cape idea. i mean its true but i kinda like the all black suit im not the biggest fan of a grey suit with black in it jus IMOAn evaluation of urban camouflage effectiveness conducted by The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) concluded that monotone grey and monotone black both performed well during night conditions.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/warrior_96_may_camo.htm

In other words, monotone gray is no less realistic than black in terms of night camo effectiveness.

In other other words, Black is not the only color that blends into shadow.

[Bathead]

^^^Exactly, BatScot. For some reason though, some all-black costume fans ignore facts like that and act like grey is as bright as flourescent yellow. Personally I like an all black costume, I had that idea about 35-40 yrs. ago, but I also like the traditional grey-black as well. Purely aesthetic reasons. As has been said before, any screenwriter with an imagination can come up with as valid a reason for a grey uniform as for a black one.

[Fenrir]

All black simply looks infinitely more cool than grey-black. There, how's that for "justification"? :dry:

[Bathead]

That's your opinion, and that is very good justification.

[Herr Logan]

^^^Exactly, BatScot. For some reason though, some all-black costume fans ignore facts like that and act like grey is as bright as flourescent yellow. Personally I like an all black costume, I had that idea about 35-40 yrs. ago, but I also like the traditional grey-black as well. Purely aesthetic reasons. As has been said before, any screenwriter with an imagination can come up with as valid a reason for a grey uniform as for a black one.
What, you didn't hear, either in this thread or another, about how Comics Batman wears "bright gray"? :rolleyes:

Anyway, rock on, Bathead, especially with that last sentence. :up:

:wolverine

[Infinity9999x]

^^^Exactly, BatScot. For some reason though, some all-black costume fans ignore facts like that and act like grey is as bright as flourescent yellow. Personally I like an all black costume, I had that idea about 35-40 yrs. ago, but I also like the traditional grey-black as well. Purely aesthetic reasons. As has been said before, any screenwriter with an imagination can come up with as valid a reason for a grey uniform as for a black one.

Good post. I liked the all black for a long time, and I preferred it when I was younger simply because it was different. Now, I want them to try to do a grey costume, because I would like to see how they handle it on screen. If you really think about it, a dark charcol grey costume would blend in better with his surroundings, because how often is Batman going to be in a pitch black area? A city isn't normaly pitch black, there are many lights and such, and in any light, a pitch black costume stands out just as much as bright yellow would.

[Boom]

I still have yet to hear a good reason for Batman to wear a grey batsuit instead of the black batsuit.
An evaluation of urban camouflage effectiveness conducted by The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) concluded that monotone grey and monotone black both performed well during night conditions.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/warrior_96_may_camo.htm

In other words, monotone gray is no less realistic than black in terms of night camo effectiveness.

In other other words, Black is not the only color that blends into shadow.
In short, it's more effective for camouflage in an urban enviroment. Pretty damn good reason if you ask me.

[Boom]

How is it more effective?
He's in a city enviroment, where gray is a predominant color. Even at night, city's are lit by street lights, car lights, building lights, etc etc. A city is never 100% pitch black at night (unless there's a blackout, but that's not a daily occurance).

Put black against a gray setting. It stands out.
Put gray against a gray setting. It blends in.

Put black in shadows. It blends in.
Put gray in shadows. It also blends in.

Gray fits both requirements.

[Boom]

Where did you see Gotham as a predominantly grey city?
I know there were grey buildings but I saw mostly tan and yellowish toned buildings rather than grey.
I saw mostly gray.

Maybe I stretched it by saying more effective. However, they concluded that gray works just as well as black. Batman traditionally wears gray and black. Why not keep to the classic look, when it's just as effective as all-black? Using gray and black is just as much of a good reason.

[Boom]

Actually, no he didn't. Nowhere in the article does it say that grey worked better than black.
Edited my post above.

[Thespiralgoeson]

No need for rationalizations. The only reason any us want to see a grey Batsuit, and the only reason that's needed, is because some of us think it would look cooler.

Personally, I think Batman should always have a black costume. However, the problem I have with the Begins suit is the black emblem on top of the black suit. When Bats has an all-black suit, I really think the yellow oval is needed (I really don't get why so many whine about it, I always thought it looked awesome.) This is the reason that I wouldn't mind seeing the suit lightened a few shades so we can better distinguish the emblem from the rest of the armor.

[Boom]

The way I see it they are keeping the clasic look of all black for Bat movies. The only media that the grey and black suit has been in besides the cartoons is the campy TV series. Is that seriously what you guys want? Replacing the dark blue with black, the slate with grey, and getting rid of the yellow oval?
Sure. I believe they could pull it off.

[Bathead]

And I have yet to see any compelling reason that black is better than grey other than unsupported statements by fans. The FAS article didn't say grey was better than black? It didn't say black was better than grey either.

[envybianchi]

Quite honestly, good ideas but the current look for Batman is great! He's supposed to be steathly like a ninja, so all black is probably the best way to go. The yellow on the chest or the hint of gray would not be effective since he's supposed to the Dark Knight not the gray Knight.

[Bathead]

^Okay I understand that but I still haven't heard a good reason to change it to grey and black rather than just keeping it fully black.
And I have yet to hear a good reason not to change it.

[Bathead]

Quite honestly, good ideas but the current look for Batman is great! He's supposed to be steathly like a ninja, so all black is probably the best way to go. The yellow on the chest or the hint of gray would not be effective since he's supposed to the Dark Knight not the gray Knight.
Explain to me *why* black is better than grey for stealth purposes.

[Fenrir]

Explain to me *why* black is better than grey for stealth purposes.

Well it might not be better per se but it's definitely just as good, as the article BatScot posted said:

An evaluation of urban camouflage effectiveness conducted by The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) concluded that monotone grey and monotone black both performed well during night conditions.

So of course, rationalizations be damned, it simply boils down to which color looks cooler. And I think all black kicks the crap out of grey-black in the coolness area. The only reason why so many people are fixated with the grey-black color scheme is because they feel it is closer to the comics, and, as such are more familiar with it.

[Carnotaur3]

You're most likely not be seen in any form or fashion if you are wearing black. And nobody wants a yellow symbol because then the bad guys will see the damn thing.

[Bathead]

Well it might not be better per se but it's definitely just as good, as the article BatScot posted said:

An evaluation of urban camouflage effectiveness conducted by The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) concluded that monotone grey and monotone black both performed well during night conditions.

So of course, rationalizations be damned, it simply boils down to which color looks cooler. And I think all black kicks the crap out of grey-black in the coolness area. The only reason why so many people are fixated with the grey-black color scheme is because they feel it is closer to the comics, and, as such are more familiar with it.

Good for you, Fenrir, at least you're being honest. Me personally, I like both.
The main reason I'm defending the grey-black is because I see too many people using faulty reasoning to explain their preference for the black suit over the grey. That it's "stealthier", which it's not. Why not just admit it's only because (as you say) you think it's just cooler looking. And, yes, I am more familiar with the grey-black costume and I like it just as much as the black, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work in a movie, but I wouldn't say I'm fixated.

[Fenrir]

Explain to me *why* black is better than grey for stealth purposes.

Well it might not be better per se but it's definitely just as good, as the article BatScot posted said:

An evaluation of urban camouflage effectiveness conducted by The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) concluded that monotone grey and monotone black both performed well during night conditions.

So of course, rationalizations be damned, it simply boils down to which color looks cooler. And I think all black kicks the crap out of grey-black in the coolness area. The only reason why so many people are fixated with the grey-black color scheme is because they feel it is closer to the comics, and, as such are more familiar with it.

Let's take a look at a few heroes that look "cool" wearing all-black costumes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/mark_phaser/matrix_neo.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/mark_phaser/ngblack.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/mark_phaser/zorro-2-poster-0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/mark_phaser/04.jpg

Now for the sake of experimentation, why not take those characters and try a grey-black combination on them and see if it looks nearly as good?

Oh and if you hadn't noticed, V never wore an all-black cloak in the comics either but I'm sure many will agree that his outfit was equally, if not more, visually appealing in the film.

Now the problem I have with the grey-black color scheme is that it looks a bit tacky and slightly more colorful compared to a monotonous all-black and that's exactly what I don't want Batman looking like.

Sure, ultimately one will simply call it my opinion and as such, dismiss it. :dry:

[Fenrir]

Good for you, Fenrir, at least you're being honest. Me personally, I like both.
The main reason I'm defending the grey-black is because I see too many people using faulty reasoning to explain their preference for the black suit over the grey. That it's "stealthier", which it's not. Why not just admit it's only because (as you say) you think it's just cooler looking. And, yes, I am more familiar with the grey-black costume and I like it just as much as the black, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work in a movie, but I wouldn't say I'm fixated.

Woops, looks like you quoted an incomplete post of mine. I was working on two computers simultaneously so that might have been the reason for the screwup. :O

[BatScot]

Actually, no he didn't. Nowhere in the article does it say that grey worked better than black.Actually, yes I did.

I have never stated that black was "better" than gray. However, I have presented evidence—which no one has been able to objectively disprove—that establishes unequivocally that gray is as viable as black, thereby refuting the claim that gray would not work as urban night camo.

A traditional color scheme is both workable and realistic.

The article said that observers said that the black works the same as grey at nighttime..Key Point: "Black works the same as grey".

No need to change the suit if it already works.Exactly.

The archetypical batsuit is gray, and since "black works the same as grey" there was no functional need to change it.

A traditional color scheme is both workable and realistic. Period.

[deathfromabove]

i still say that the suit in begins already appears black and grey. if you compare it to the suits in the first three batfilms it looks much closer to the "traditional" color sceme. in almost every scene the suit looks black and grey. i definately want them to improve the way the suit is made but i think it already looks good.
and i know im going to get people saying the suit was all black and thats bollocks.
let me ask you this:
what color is the sky?
blue you say? no. its actually colorless but it reflects blue so it appears blue.
the suit in begins is clearly two toned.
black and less black?
less black=grey.
its already black and grey onscreen.

[Boom]

i still say that the suit in begins already appears black and grey. if you compare it to the suits in the first three batfilms it looks much closer to the "traditional" color sceme. in almost every scene the suit looks black and grey. i definately want them to improve the way the suit is made but i think it already looks good.
and i know im going to get people saying the suit was all black and thats bollocks.
let me ask you this:
what color is the sky?
blue you say? no. its actually colorless but it reflects blue so it appears blue.
the suit in begins is clearly two toned.
black and less black?
less black=grey.
its already black and grey onscreen.
No it's not. It's all black.

The difference in tone is easy to explain. The suit appears lighter than the cape because the cape is a different material, which absorbs more light than the suit. The foam latex for the suit IS black.

[trustyside-kick]

No it's not. It's all black.

The difference in tone is easy to explain. The suit appears lighter than the cape because the cape is a different material, which absorbs less light than the suit. The foam latex for the suit IS black.

Exactly.

[BatScot]

The way I see it they are keeping the classic look of all black for Bat movies.Classic? How does twelve hours of one compare more "classically" to over sixty years of the other.

The only media that the grey and black suit has been in besides the cartoons is the campy TV series. Is that seriously what you guys want? Replacing the dark blue with black, the slate with grey, and getting rid of the yellow oval?Well, and also the original film serials, and I sure that if someone took the time to do the math one would find that of all the incarnations of Batman that the traditional styling is predominant… but you've taken fallacious approach here of assuming that a modern film costume cannot achieve something better than the '60s TV series, but this is simply not the case, as a comparison of the '70s TV Spiderman costume to the Raimi film version proves.

Now before someone takes that last statement on an unnecessary tangent, the point I am speaking to here is the quality of materials and construction and not whether or not Spiderman is a “different type of character” than Batman. That latter objection is of no particular relevance here.

[The Last Meatbag]

Well Batman has to look intimidating, keep that in mind when considering fabric suits...

Im all for Cloth over armor though

[Beelze]

Classic? How does twelve hours of one compare more "classically" to over sixty years of the other. Now you're not being fair. You gotta count all images from comic books in which the look you favor appears, and put it against the number of frames which the movie versions have had, that feature the look (about 24 frames per second). Sure, the look you'd favor would most likely still come out on top, but you gotta deal with the correct numbers here. No oversimplifications! :oldrazz:

Oh, and BTW, he was talking specifically about Batman movies... and so, one could say black is the classic/traditional color.

[Bathead]

Pure semantics. You're playing with words.

[Nivek]

Y'know for all you guys saying you want Bat's to wear realistic body armor, please feel free to produse pictures or info about edged weapon and ballistic tactical body armor that are not cloth based. Semi-rigid full body armor is about as unrealistic and silly looking as grey and blue tights. The rubber suits need to be toned down.

Hell, he could be wearing a suit no different than the SR costume that could be as plausable as the nomex survival suit that he had in the film. This is Batman, not Iron Man.

Over two years later, and the same old arguements.

[ToddIsDead]

No it's not. It's all black.

The difference in tone is easy to explain. The suit appears lighter than the cape because the cape is a different material, which absorbs less light than the suit. The foam latex for the suit IS black.
Not to be a nitpicker or anything, but the cape is darker because it absorbs MORE light than the suit. The more light is absorbed, the less light is reflected, and the darker the color. That's why black cars and clothes always get hotter than any other color in the summer.

[Boom]

Not to be a nitpicker or anything, but the cape is darker because it absorbs MORE light than the suit. The more light is absorbed, the less light is reflected, and the darker the color. That's why black cars and clothes always get hotter than any other color in the summer.
Oh okay. Guess I got it mixed up. Thanks for the correction.

[Fenrir]

Key Point: "Black works the same as grey".

A traditional color scheme is both workable and realistic.

But still looks less cool than all-black. :o

[BatScot]

Well it might not be better per se but it's definitely just as good...Which, by definition, means that BOTH black and gray are “just as good”, and that one cannot summarily dismiss one in favor of the other, or assert with absolute certainty that ‘black is better’ or that a gray scheme ‘would not work’.

So of course, rationalizations be damned, it simply boils down to which color looks cooler. And I think all black kicks the crap out of grey-black in the coolness area. I’ve seen the all-black and have become tired of it. It is no longer of any interest to me. I also find the grey-black to “look cooler” (opinion), to be perfectly viable in terms of stealth functionality (fact), and to be more representative of the character (fact).

The only reason why so many people are fixated with the grey-black color scheme is because they feel it is closer to the comics, and, as such are more familiar with it. I don’t find that to be the only reason in the least,

1. As a design, Black&Gray works.
2. Gray is a viable color for stealth applications.
3. You'd actually see the logo that he took the time to place on his chest.
4. A gray suit more accurately portrays the iconography of the source character.
5. Batman is the ‘Dark Knight’ not the ‘Black Knight’, and there are various shades of gray that can be considered dark.

On the other hand, the only reason ;) people are fixated with black is because they feel it is the only stealth color (false), that ‘ninjas’ wore only black (false), and that anything else looks campy (false), etc., etc.

Let's take a look at a few heroes that look "cool" wearing all-black costumes: Goth modernism, and how cliché it has become… surely you don’t propose that heroes can only look cool in all-black?

Sure, ultimately one will simply call it my opinion and as such, dismiss it.I actually accept that all-black ‘works’ reasonably well, I just don’t find it all that interesting anymore... it is all too familiar.

[Savage]

Y'know for all you guys saying you want Bat's to wear realistic body armor, please feel free to produse pictures or info about edged weapon and ballistic tactical body armor that are not cloth based. Semi-rigid full body armor is about as unrealistic and silly looking as grey and blue tights. The rubber suits need to be toned down.

Hell, he could be wearing a suit no different than the SR costume that could be as plausable as the nomex survival suit that he had in the film. This is Batman, not Iron Man.

Over two years later, and the same old arguements.
I'm glad that someone else noticed he's basicly an all black Iron Man. As cool as the costume is, Superman's suit actually looked more bulletproof than this one, which is just...weird. :confused:

[BatScot]

You gotta count all images from comic books in which the look you favor appears, and put it against the number of frames which the movie versions have had, that feature the look (about 24 frames per second). Sure, the look you'd favor would most likely still come out on top, but you gotta deal with the correct numbers here. No oversimplifications!Why would one bother to do that? Does the film costumes change from frame to frame?

[Fenrir]

Which, by definition, means that BOTH black and gray are “just as good”, and that one cannot summarily dismiss one in favor of the other, or assert with absolute certainty that ‘black is better’ or that a gray scheme ‘would not work’.

I don't want a black-grey scheme because it looks less "cool" than all black. Like I said, functionality and faithfulness rationalizations be damned. I want something to stay the way it is because it LOOKS GOOD.

I’ve seen the all-black and have become tired of it. It is no longer of any interest to me. I also find the grey-black to “look cooler” (opinion), to be perfectly viable in terms of stealth functionality (fact), and to be more representative of the character (fact).

Similiarly, I'veseen the grey-black too much so that it is no longer of any interest to me. Plus it doesn't look as good as all-black.

I don’t find that to be the only reason in the least,

1. As a design, Black&Gray works.

So does all black.

2. Gray is a viable color for stealth applications.

So is black. And if I'm not mistaken, special forces use black a lot more frequently than they use grey.

3. You'd actually see the logo that he took the time to place on his chest.

That can be fixed by making the logo material a bit more reflective. We've seen that in Begins. It just needs to stand out a bit more.

4. A gray suit more accurately portrays the iconography of the source character.

Which can be done just as well with all-black. To me, the most striking and iconic images of the character is him in partly in the shadows or fully wrapped around in his cape, where there is no sign of the gray color on his suit.

5. Batman is the ‘Dark Knight’ not the ‘Black Knight’, and there are various shades of gray that can be considered dark.

He's not called the "gray Knight" or the "gray-black Knight" either.

Besides, you of all people should know he is called "The Dark Knight" because of the nature of the character not the color of his costume.

On the other hand, the only reason ;) people are fixated with black is because they feel it is the only stealth color (false), that ‘ninjas’ wore only black (false), and that anything else looks campy (false), etc., etc.

...or because they feel it simply LOOKS BETTER than gray-black. Again, how's that for "justification"?

Goth modernism, and how cliché it has become… surely you don’t propose that heroes can only look cool in all-black?

No, heroes can look cool in other colors, but they look cooler in black.

I actually accept that all-black ‘works’ reasonably well, I just don’t find it all that interesting anymore... it is all too familiar.

Now that's funny. You can't accept all-black because it looks too familiar simply because you've seen it in about 5 films of the character, yet 60 years of comic books aren't repetetive and familiar enough for the grey-black look? :D

[Bathead]

If you're talking about that phoney-baloney reason given in the SE DVD that he did it to reduce the heat signature, that doesn't wash, mostly because of the considerable heat source which is his face. Which also is quite a lot brighter than grey. If stealth is his goal, then why doesn't he cover his face?

[Bathead]

Sigh. No, I don't want him to cover his face. I'm just saying to those who complain that grey is too "bright", then why aren't they also complaining about his face being exposed, which is FAR brighter than grey. That's all.

[batboy99]

he isnt batman beyond this is bruce wayne batman not terry mcguiness man!

[7Hells]

Perhaps Nolan is using the all black costume to subconsciously influence the audience into knowing Batman is not a hero like Superman and Spider-Man but more of an anti-hero. It would be reasonable since Nolan cannot portray Batman as such due to graphic violence being an issue.

I think this is also the reason for Batman not saving Ra's al Ghul in BB.

[deathfromabove]

No it's not. It's all black.

The difference in tone is easy to explain. The suit appears lighter than the cape because the cape is a different material, which absorbs more light than the suit. The foam latex for the suit IS black.

really? thanks.

i never said it wasnt black. i said on film it looks grey.

the foam for the suit might be black sitting in a vacuum but light it in any way and it reflects grey. the costume looks black and grey 90% of the time.

the cape is much darker because, yes, it refelects very little light.

if the rest of the costume looks less than perfectly black it is what?

lighter black???

black plus white (light) = grey.

open your eyes.

[Herr Logan]

The Batman's suit in the comics is, according to the novelization of 'Knightfall' and I think possibly the 'Ultimate Guide,' supposed to be made of non-reflective material. The gray of the suit is in no way "bright" in the dark, because it isn't shiny. You know what is shiny? Black rubber.

So far, every single Batman movie has failed to use a non-reflective material, thus impeding the stealth element. A dark gray fabric that isn't shiny isn't going to look "bright" or too light, and only the most insecure coward would even suggest that. God no, it's one shade below pure black! Too bright!!

As for people who seem obsessed with the idea that the Batman blend into shadows 24/7, I wonder what brain disorder you have to have that would make you not understand that the Batman wants to be seen. Theatricality is just as important as stealth, and even 'Batman Begins' makes that clear. You don't dress in a cape and bat-cowl if you want to be invisible all the time, unless you're stupid or crazy (crazier than the Batman). You wear those things because you want them to be seen. Anyone who doesn't get that probably shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet by themselves, and probably should have close adult supervision at most times.

As for the texture of the suit, once again:

Any real Batman fan knows that the Batman needs more maneuverability than protection. If you don't know that, you're thinking of a different character. The Batman usually outmaneuvers gunfire, period. There's absolutely nothing more realistic about a guy performing [badly filmed] martial arts in a shiny black inner-tube suit than there is a man wearing tights and outmaneuvering gunmen. The Batman is an acrobat, period. Oh, I'm sorry, is that not "cool" enough for today's audience? The fact remains.

I couldn't care less about the wants of people who are insecure, childish, cowardly and don't want to be known as comic fans. If you're here, you're talking about a character who wears tights and doesn't kill. Is that not "edgy" enough for you? Watch me care.

The "tights" are formfitting, fire-retardant, Nomex garments, and he wears a bulletproof vest under the costume top. He also has a somewhat armored cowl and a fireproof cape. The real Batman doesn't need anything else for general bodily protection. It doesn't make you "cooler" to need heavier gear to do your job, it makes you less interesting.

Imagination is what allows a movie to be accurate to the source material. Cowardice is what doesn't. Yeah, that's what the world needs... more cowardice and pretense.

:wolverine

[Cobblepot]

A couldn't agree more with you.

[batman44]

Well said Herr Logan even though I do like the BB suit for the most part.

[kenellard]

A couldn't agree more with you.

same here, that post made me think about something, did batman do anything remotely acrobatic in BB? Is this really Batman?

[Lobster Charlie]

I want someone here to try to do a backflip while wearing a cape.

[Herr Logan]

A couldn't agree more with you.
Yeah you could. You're just not trying hard enough. :mad:

;) :up:

:wolverine

[Herr Logan]

Well said Herr Logan even though I do like the BB suit for the most part.

Thanks.

It's fine to like the suit. That's merely a preference, and cannot be judged. What I object to is people arguing that it's more realistic and practical than the suit from the comics and that the classic suit can't be done well in a film.

:wolverine

[The Sage]

The Batman's suit in the comics is, according to the novelization of 'Knightfall' and I think possibly the 'Ultimate Guide,' supposed to be made of non-reflective material. The gray of the suit is in no way "bright" in the dark, because it isn't shiny. You know what is shiny? Black rubber.

So far, every single Batman movie has failed to use a non-reflective material, thus impeding the stealth element. A dark gray fabric that isn't shiny isn't going to look "bright" or too light, and only the most insecure coward would even suggest that. God no, it's one shade below pure black! Too bright!!

As for people who seem obsessed with the idea that the Batman blend into shadows 24/7, I wonder what brain disorder you have to have that would make you not understand that the Batman wants to be seen. Theatricality is just as important as stealth, and even 'Batman Begins' makes that clear. You don't dress in a cape and bat-cowl if you want to be invisible all the time, unless you're stupid or crazy (crazier than the Batman). You wear those things because you want them to be seen. Anyone who doesn't get that probably shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet by themselves, and probably should have close adult supervision at most times.

As for the texture of the suit, once again:

Any real Batman fan knows that the Batman needs more maneuverability than protection. If you don't know that, you're thinking of a different character. The Batman usually outmaneuvers gunfire, period. There's absolutely nothing more realistic about a guy performing [badly filmed] martial arts in a shiny black inner-tube suit than there is a man wearing tights and outmaneuvering gunmen. The Batman is an acrobat, period. Oh, I'm sorry, is that not "cool" enough for today's audience? The fact remains.

I couldn't care less about the wants of people who are insecure, childish, cowardly and don't want to be known as comic fans. If you're here, you're talking about a character who wears tights and doesn't kill. Is that not "edgy" enough for you? Watch me care.

The "tights" are formfitting, fire-retardant, Nomex garments, and he wears a bulletproof vest under the costume top. He also has a somewhat armored cowl and a fireproof cape. The real Batman doesn't need anything else for general bodily protection. It doesn't make you "cooler" to need heavier gear to do your job, it makes you less interesting.

Imagination is what allows a movie to be accurate to the source material. Cowardice is what doesn't. Yeah, that's what the world needs... more cowardice and pretense.

:wolverine

I don't think it's a bulletproof vest, but some type of armor. Plus I think there are parts of armor underneath certain areas of the costume. But that's just minor nitpicking.

Well said.

[Herr Logan]

I don't think it's a bulletproof vest, but some type of armor. Plus I think there are parts of armor underneath certain areas of the costume. But that's just minor nitpicking.

Well said.

It's some kind of custom-made, very compact, lightweight, bulletproof armor vest. "Vest" just describes that it covers the torso only. In various comics of the past few years, you can see armor under the upper layers of his suit when they get torn around his chest.

Yeah, I think he also has armor panels in other key places in his costume. For the most part, he can still get shot in the arms and legs, but he usually avoids that. He messed up a couple times in 'Year One' on that score.

Thank you. :up:

:wolverine

[kenellard]

I want someone here to try to do a backflip while wearing a cape.

Ah but you see, it's not about whether or not any of us can do it, the fact is that batman can do it. his agility is as much a part of him as his detective skills, one being pretty much useless without the other

[deathfromabove]

herr logan, you say this alot and it doesnt make any sense to me. you talk about people being too cowardly to admit they are comic book fans just because they think a direct translation of many costumes to screen would look silly. im not saying there isnt a better way to transalte batmans costume to screen, im sure there is a more "comic accurate" way to do so,
but i personally think a skin tight blue and grey costume onscreen would look horrible. does that make a coward? and what costume do you use? jim lees musclebound blue and grey or mazzuchelli's understated black and grey? and if you think white lenses would look better than someones eyes for expresing emotion i give up.
i mean you realize comics can do things that are completely ridiculous and that is part of the medium. do think wolvie would have honestly looked better in skintight blue and yellow spandex? i love the way he looks in the comics but if huge jackman was wearing that outfit i would laugh my ass off.
you are always ranting about the differences between comics and their movie counterparts but you seem to be missing an essential truth:
comic books and movies are two totally different mediums. different visual techniques and different storytelling techniques. im not saying filmmakers shoudnt respect the source material but at the end of the day i want good movies. sometimes adaptation is essential to good storytelling. how are you going to take 30-70 years of stories, character development, plot lines and yes different interpretations and boil that down to a film that is exactly what appears on the page?
its the same with books. i suppose you would have wanted stanley kubrick to translate "a clockwork orange" and "the shining" page for page instead of giving us his vision and two masterpieces? i saw the shining movie that was an exact translation a few years back. i hope i dont have to tell you which one was better.

and why is it when a comic book artist or writer takes liberties with a character or puts their own vision on the page everyone says "oh neat thats great" but when a filmaker does it people get all crazy? i suppose when miller wrote dkr or year one you were screaming bloody hell "the batmobile doesnt look like that! batman doesnt have pouches on his belt! he has little capsules! wtf!"

if its good art its good art, whether its sam raimi, steve ditko, frank miller, or christopher nolan. slavish translation is boring and uninspired and seldom works on screen. and before antone brings it up i'll give you sin city. a book that drew very heavily from film visually and thematically already.

i personally like when filmakers take some liberties and make there own mark. what is more cowardly: taking some risks with an iconic character that is loved the world over or copying someone elses work word for word?
and im not a coward. i love my batman comics. i wear my batman t shirts (in public) and i make no apologies for my tastes. and i still say a 100%completely comics accurate costume for batman is not only unnecessary but would look silly. could the costume been done better than begins? no argument. of course it could. but blue and grey tights would have been far worse.

hate away bub.

[Herr Logan]

herr logan, you say this alot and it doesnt make any sense to me. you talk about people being too cowardly to admit they are comic book fans just because they think a direct translation of many costumes to screen would look silly. im not saying there isnt a better way to transalte batmans costume to screen, im sure there is a more "comic accurate" way to do so,
Indeed, there is a way to make a more "comic accurate" way to do so, and several people here have been explaining how, although many others are either misinterpreting or ignoring those suggestions.

but i personally think a skin tight blue and grey costume onscreen would look horrible. does that make a coward?
No, it makes you off-topic. Who the hell is suggesting blue and gray? Granted, I haven't read through this entire thread, but in the last several pages (of which, again, I haven't read every post) I haven't seen anyone suggesting the use of the color blue.

There is no argument against a skintight costume with the Batman. He has always worn such a costume in all his decades of publishing. This is what superheroes usually wear, an anyone who says the Batman isn't a superhero is either lying, completely ignorant and/or a coward who doesn't want to admit that they either like superheroes or that a "cool" superhero wears a skintight costume.

As for the blue and gray thing, nobody I've seen here is asking for that. His costume is supposed to be black and gray. Perhaps it was something in line with the Comics Code mentality that first made the Batman's cape and cowl blue back in the day, or maybe it was a printing/coloring issue. I'm assuming that they kept it blue during the 70's for coloring reasons instead of... whatever you want to call it when people don't want to use black (ex. they rarely used it in the Spider-Man cartoon of the 90's, even when it made the most sense). Regardless, the cowl, cape, gloves, trunks and boots look best in black, and the bodysuit looks best in a darker shade of gray.

and what costume do you use? jim lees musclebound blue and grey or mazzuchelli's understated black and grey?
I forget, is Mazzuchelli the one who did 'Year One'? If so, then his, of course.
Jim Lee's art is incredible, but the ears were too short on his version's costume, and the blue parts didn't have nearly enough black on them (which may not be his call, since he probably wasn't the colorist).

and if you think white lenses would look better than someones eyes for expresing emotion i give up.
Fine. Be a quitter.

I don't understand why people have this idea that they're going to get a lot of emotion from the Batman, much less just from his eyes. His non-verbal cues come from body language and mostly subtle lower facial expressions. Just because Bale made a point of screaming and shuddering with rage doesn't mean that's how the Batman is meant to be played. This "emotion" crap has really gotten out of hand among the movie fans. What exactly are we watching here; a grim, outlandish crime drama or some typical Oscar-winning performance with big speeches and tears in people's eyes? Keep in mind, winning an Oscar doesn't make it quality, and a proper Batman movie probably would never win. It would probably be too off-beat.

Point is, all this talk about the Batman being a rage-filled animal is bull****. If that's what Nolan was going for, then he failed to get it right. The Batman is a dish best served cold, which is why Michael Keaton's version (while woefully understated and limited) is scarier and also more dignified.
If you can't play the Batman without using your eyes, you're not good enough. If you can't write and direct a Batman who can do the job without using his eyes, you're not good enough, period.

As for all the reality-junkies, if they were really so concerned with giving the Batman the best and most useful gear, they'd be begging for those lenses. It is a fact that he wears them in the comics, and it's for very good reasons, which I'm assuming you already know.


i mean you realize comics can do things that are completely ridiculous and that is part of the medium. do think wolvie would have honestly looked better in skintight blue and yellow spandex? i love the way he looks in the comics but if huge jackman was wearing that outfit i would laugh my ass off.

Wolverine in the movies was a joke. A 6'2" heartthrob in a black leather costume with long sleeves who couldn't even bother to walk or talk like the character... Yeah, I'm not even going to compare him to what the real thing would be like. He doesn't rate that high. Anybody who actually liked that character and knew anything about him could have written, directed and dressed him up properly, but Singer was never a real fan.

I think the basic design of Wolverine's costume is fine. I wouldn't use yellow and blue, though; I'd use orange and black. Problem solved, except for those cowards who can't stand to see superheroes wearing superhero costumes. I'd love it if a person who is good with manips and actually wants to see Wolverine in a comics-accurate suit would produce an example of a good picture of Wolverine (i.e. not cartoony or messy art, but something solid, like Dave Cockrum, John Byrne, Jim Lee or one of the Kuberts) in his classic costume with the yellow replaced with a deep orange and the blue replaced with black. I'll also remind everyone that no amount of badly-made examples can ever possibly prove it "can't work". It can be supported, but never disproven. It was a disgrace when people started making crappy manips of the Batman with white lenses and claimed it was "proof" that it "wouldn't work." Let's be adults about our funny books, people.

Skintight, potentially breathable fittings are also obviously more viable than leather for superhero work. If you don't understand why that is, you shouldn't be questioning anything about this topic. I'd love to see gymnasts and martial artists start wearing full suits of leather and see how far it gets them. As it is, James Marsden and Hugh Jackman passed out from heat exhaustion during the filming of the first movie and had to be carried by crew members back to their trailers. That tells you all you need to know about that.
Christian Bale didn't have that problem though; he had tubes of cold water inside his suit to keep him cool. You know, like God damn astronauts and Martin Laurence in 'Big Mamma's House'. That's part of why it was so bulky. Real conducive to crime-fighting it was.


you are always ranting about the differences between comics and their movie counterparts but you seem to be missing an essential truth:
comic books and movies are two totally different mediums. different visual techniques and different storytelling techniques. im not saying filmmakers shoudnt respect the source material but at the end of the day i want good movies. sometimes adaptation is essential to good storytelling. how are you going to take 30-70 years of stories, character development, plot lines and yes different interpretations and boil that down to a film that is exactly what appears on the page?

That's an irrelevant argument. What does 30-70 years have to do with choosing a faithful costume? In some cases (possibly Green Lantern, for example), that might be an issue. In the Batman's case, it isn't. You simply pick the most often used design-- or the parts that have remained the same-- and make only the most minor modifications to either enhance the appearance or the story. In the Batman's case, I don't know which has been there for more time: the plain bat, or the bat in the yellow elipse. If it's of equal tenure (and I'm not claiming it is), then just pick one you like.
As for enhancing the story, I've already given an extended explanation for how to connect the Batman's black trunks to his habit of using high-tech, high-functioning gear and improved upon the actual comic in terms of "realism" and funcionality without changing the look (in the movie, you'd see several small plastic clamps holding leather and plastic straps beneath the belt, but they'd blend in pretty well).
The only possible argument against my trunks/harness proposal has nothing to do with the existance of the trunks at all, but is on the basis that I want it to be black against a dark gray bodysuit, and others do not. That's an issue of wanting the movies to maintain authenticity and reject unnecessary changes. In the dark, it all looks the same if the gray is the right tone. In the light, he'll actually look like the Batman we've known for years and years.

its the same with books. i suppose you would have wanted stanley kubrick to translate "a clockwork orange" and "the shining" page for page instead of giving us his vision and two masterpieces? i saw the shining movie that was an exact translation a few years back. i hope i dont have to tell you which one was better.
I never watched all of 'A Clockwork Orange', I haven't read either of those books, and I never saw all of the TV movie of 'The Shining.' That in mind, yeah, I'd want a largely faithful adaptation, just on principal. Maybe after someone does a successful faithful version, then people can play with it, but someone should at least give an honest try first.

and why is it when a comic book artist or writer takes liberties with a character or puts their own vision on the page everyone says "oh neat thats great" but when a filmaker does it people get all crazy? i suppose when miller wrote dkr or year one you were screaming bloody hell "the batmobile doesnt look like that! batman doesnt have pouches on his belt! he has little capsules! wtf!"
If DKR was supposed to be regular continuity, you're damn right I'd be pissed and screaming "bloody hell." That's how I feel about 'All Star Batman & Robin.' I'm also not thrilled with parts of 'Year One'. I don't see why Miller is held in such high regard when it comes to the Batman. I think he just beat someone else to the punch. I certainly wouldn't want to see him take over a current title. He doesn't have enough self-restraint. That's not saying he isn't good in other things, but his stuff with the Batman leaves something to be desired, although it's not all bad.

You can be damn sure I've been just as pissed when comic writers screw with characters in the comics. That's all they've done in Marvel Comics (the ones I've been most familiar with, previously) for the past several years, which is why I stopped buying. I pretty much only buy the Batman now, but, when I do get to make it to the comics store, I'm not taking anything from Grant Morrison at face value. I'll never forgive what he did to the X-Men, and I'm not talking about the costumes.

if its good art its good art, whether its sam raimi, steve ditko, frank miller, or christopher nolan. slavish translation is boring and uninspired and seldom works on screen. and before antone brings it up i'll give you sin city. a book that drew very heavily from film visually and thematically already.
I myself am open to several changes that could be made, and I've been constructing concepts for my own scripts that deviate somewhat (for time constraints and other reasons). But I draw a line, clearly a lot sooner than you do. I don't accept change for the sake of change, ever. I accept a change when it's superior or at most neutral.

Example of a good change: The physical design of Movie!Ock's tentacle harness in 'Spider-Man 2.' Having it plug directly into his spine makes it just plausible enough for me to happily accept that the damn thing got melded to his central nervous system. The way the tentacles themselves were made are brilliant and very versatile. The idea of using AI technology to help out with the very complex process of operating those things with precision is good, too.

Example of a very bad change: making the AI take over Movie!Octavius' mind to any degree whatsoever. That's unacceptable, no question. Dr. Octopus' value as a villain lies in his personality as much as his power. They robbed him of a real motivation for being a supervillain and altered his personality in unacceptable ways. After some very nice character development in the comics and one of the paperback novels of the past ten years, he was-- excluding his being a cyborg-- one of the most realistic and compelling types of criminal (I'm a criminology major), and they turned him back into a B-movie cliche with no substance. I can explain to you why the real Dr. Octopus is psychologically realistic if you want. For now, let's just say he was never married, he was never into wooing women with poetry, and that's essential to his character, and they robbed him of that just to satisfy Sam Raimi's love of sappiness.

Good or neutral change: Giving the Joker a permanent smile. It doesn't take anything away from his character or his image from the comics and ties him firmly to his roots (the movie 'The Man Who Laughs,' which was the inspiration for the character).

Bad changes: Taking away the Joker's white skin, green hair or red lips. A comic book character is defined as much by his appearance as by his character traits and mannerisms (which is why Movie!Wolvie is a failure, because had only the faintest traces of each). The Joker has, to my knowledged, never looked anything different that having those three traits. Maybe there's some wiggle room with the lips, but never with the skin or hair. You either get that or you're not a knowledgable fan of any kind.

As for his clothing, the Joker wears "nice" clothes, period. Making the suit purple is perfect. Making it black is okay. Making it something other than a suit with a flower on the lapel is a complete failure. The Joker doesn't wear tattered, blood-stained rags unless he just got his ass beaten, and then he goes back to his "Ha-Hacienda" and dresses "nicely" again. He certaily doesn't wear a straight-jacket and no shoes unless he just broke out of Arkham. As soon as he gets anywhere near a source of clothing, he's gonna wear a real shirt and put some God damn shoes on.

As for his behavior, the Joker behaves in a histrionic and center-stage manner, period. Anyone who doesn't get that isn't a fan of any kind. He has never been something other than an attention whore, except when he was clearly written out of character. He is whacky and over-the-top, period. He has always been this way. In his first appearance, he was somewhat reserved, but he did announce his intentions to murder people and laughed about it. He doesn't just slink around in dark alleys and shiv people like some non-fans are expecting. He is not any kind of serial killer (I know what I'm talking about on this), much less the cartoon version the people of these forums have in mind. He is funny. He doesn't need to be scary to the audience necessarily (although he should probably scare younger viewers, as I was scared of the Joker in 'BATMAN' when I was 6), but he should be menacing. Everyone keeps talking about how he needs to be "darker" than he's been in every incarnation every before. Yeah, 'cuz that's what the cool kids are into these days, "darkness." That doesn't require sneaking around in alleys and using knives at random or carving smiles into people's faces instead of using nerve gas.

i personally like when filmakers take some liberties and make there own mark. what is more cowardly: taking some risks with an iconic character that is loved the world over or copying someone elses work word for word?
I'm not saying everything should be word-for-word (although certain iconic lines should be that). A discerning, critical fan with a mind for storytelling should know how to consolodate a large amount of a character's history, choose which stage of that character's history they want to portray and represent all the most important elements (including visuals, obviously, since they're both visual media).

No one has done anything courageous in terms of the costume used in 'Begins'. Not in the least. They're required to use a bulky, rubber suit (and that's a fact) because WB is too cowardly to move on from that (that's an editorialization). Nobody has made an honest attempt to portray a proper, comics-accurate Batman suit in a movie. Again, a proper suit includes a (preferably) dark gray bodysuit, black gloves, boots, trunks (which could and should be a customized rapelling harness, like I keep telling everyone), cape and cowl, and everything on it should be non-reflective except for maybe the emblem and/or the belt (depending on what material they use for the belt). In addition to the mandate that they use a suit that was halfway between a wet-suit and an astronaut suit, they were pressed for time, I think, so I guess we won't know if they would have actually tried or not. Yeah, yeah, they claimed they did some tests and it didn't work. That's bull****, because again, you can never, ever disprove that it can work, but it just takes one time to prove that it can.

Let me just reiterate from weeks ago that Nolan and Co. didn't add any new elements to the Batsuit from what was in the comics. The directional microphones in the ear-piece? Already in the comics. The Nomex and Kevlar in the suit? Already in the comics. Scallops on the gloves that can be used defensively? Already in the comics.

Well, there might be one thing, depending on whether I heard this right or not. When Lucious Fox (who shouldn't need to play "Q" for Bruce Wayne, although I loved his performance) mentioned the grappling gun, did he say "pneumatic" or "magnetic"? If he said "magnetic", then that's one thing that was added... I think. "Pneumatic" fits not matter what, though, so it may be irrelevant.
In the video game 'Tomb Raider: Legend,' Lara uses a grappling device which is a super-electromagnet at the end of a cord which can be turned on and off and holds onto metal things when on. If this is how the one in 'Batman Begins' worked, then that's new, but I don't know if it was.

and im not a coward. i love my batman comics. i wear my batman t shirts (in public) and i make no apologies for my tastes. and i still say a 100%completely comics accurate costume for batman is not only unnecessary but would look silly.
Well, not everyone's imagination fires at the same rate. But what are ya gonna do, right?

could the costume been done better than begins? no argument. of course it could. but blue and grey tights would have been far worse.
Again, where the hell does this factor in? I probably should have asked you to correct this obvious, glaring error in your argument before responding. It would have saved some time. If anyone is asking for the shade of blue in the Batsuit in a movie, I haven't seen it and I certainly am not thinking it.

hate away bub.
Always. But I don't hate you. Not yet, anyway. ;)

:wolverine

[SilentType]

You make some good points, but you come off a fanboy jerk when you refer to people as cowards, idiots, call people "not a fan of any kind" when they disagree with your line of thinking. It's juvenile and doesn't help your argument.

[Herr Logan]

You make some good points, but you come off a fanboy jerk when you refer to people as cowards, idiots, call people "not a fan of any kind" when they disagree with your line of thinking. It's juvenile and doesn't help your argument.

Thank you for your candor. I'll see if I can tone it down.

:wolverine

[kenellard]

Point is, all this talk about the Batman being a rage-filled animal is bull****. If that's what Nolan was going for, then he failed to get it right. The Batman is a dish best served cold, which is why Michael Keaton's version (while woefully understated and limited) is scarier and also more dignified.
If you can't play the Batman without using your eyes, you're not good enough. If you can't write and direct a Batman who can do the job without using his eyes, you're not good enough, period.

I totally agree. the more I watch BB the less I like what they did with the Batman's characterisation. I wouldn't have minded if they'd actually pulled off the whole "animalistic" thing, (even though that has never been major part of his personality) but they simply didn't. It's funny remembering how hard they were selling that crap prior to the release of BB, mainly as it translated to the screen in the form of "that" voice and batman -wait for it- crouching down! OMG! And now that I think of it, isn't Bats' intent to be a creature, and thus, not human? so, um, how many people do you know with white eyes? Batman needs a serious attitude adjustment for TDK, because I for one am not buying it.

[Herr Logan]

same here, that post made me think about something, did batman do anything remotely acrobatic in BB? Is this really Batman?

Not really, no.

Ah but you see, it's not about whether or not any of us can do it, the fact is that batman can do it. his agility is as much a part of him as his detective skills, one being pretty much useless without the other

Exactly! His physical skills are half of what makes him what he is (the other half being all his intellectual faculties), and that includes agile maneuvers. He needs a lighter suit and a more versatile stunt double, not to mention a director and cameraperson who can actually film an action scene properly. Yeah, I liked the movie a lot, but they did a very poor job with the fight scenes.

I totally agree. the more I watch BB the less I like what they did with the Batman's characterisation. I wouldn't have minded if they'd actually pulled off the whole "animalistic" thing, (even though that has never been major part of his personality) but they simply didn't. It's funny remembering how hard they were selling that crap prior to the release of BB, mainly as it translated to the screen in the form of "that" voice and batman -wait for it- crouching down! OMG! And now that I think of it, isn't Bats' intent to be a creature, and thus, not human? so, um, how many people do you know with white eyes? Batman needs a serious attitude adjustment for TDK, because I for one am not buying it.

You make me so happy. :up:

:wolverine

[The Batman]

I mean, acrobatics has lways been apart of the character. Kane SPECIFICALLY put that in, espeically since one of bats influences was zorro...who used acrobatics quite a bit

[lujho]

The most acrobatic thing Batman did was jumping from the rooftop to teh fire-escape - and that wasn't in the full bat suit.

I seem to remember reading that one of Bale's doubles was the Parkour/Free running guy Cyril Raffaelli, who can be seen in the movie "Districs B13". I'm sure he's capable of all kinds of cool Batman-like stuff if they'd try.

Watch Parkour explode in popularity after the opening action scene in Casino Royale, and watch it influence a lot of hollywood movies - Batman included.

Nolan could stand to take a look at Tony Jaa as well. Not to mention Jackie Chan. Not to blatantly copy those styles of action, but to take it to that level of physicality and acrobatics.

[Herr Logan]

I mean, acrobatics has lways been apart of the character. Kane SPECIFICALLY put that in, espeically since one of bats influences was zorro...who used acrobatics quite a bit

I really wish they'd kept the event before the double murder a viewing of a classic Zorro movie. It would give the opportunity for Thomas to make a mention of how he wished Bruce would idolize a more cerebral character, like Sherlock Holmes-- and then Bruce grows up to be a match for both characters. Wait... no. That would require Thomas Wayne to be something other than the most genial father ever, and also a deliberate emphasis on the Batman as a detective.

He first appeared and still appears in 'Detective Comics', God dammit. His most used title next to "Dark Knight" is "World's Greatest Detective." R'as Al Ghul and his daughter always referred to him as "Detective" in the comics. But hey, it's just a small detail.

Can you believe I actually saw someone on one of these forums say they hope they wait a couple movies before they really get into the detective work aspects, since the Batman is just starting out? I wanted to reach through the screen and smack him. I mean, how can someone be so oblivious and ignorant?

The Batman is a detective first and foremost. Yes, the cape and cowl and action are important, but the underlying theme of it all is that he's using investigative methods. But hey, it's much simpler to just have Carmine Falcone-- supposedly the crime lord of Gotham-- be at a crime scene and have the Batman pull him out of his car and leave him for the cops, and they are able to successfully prosecute him because there's only one corrupt judge in all of Gotham City.

Like I said, I like this movie, but the more I look at it, the worse it looks. The plot was extensively flawed and extremely unrealistic. People want realism so badly? This film failed at that in both the social structural/criminological elements and at the sci-fi plot. I can handle a man dodging bullets and doing acrobatics in a cape. I cannot tolerate that bull**** microwave emmitter (it's not that it exists, it's how they used it) and Falcone (who was completely mischaracterized in every way) being seen anywhere near a crime scene.

:wolverine

[Herr Logan]

The most acrobatic thing Batman did was jumping from the rooftop to teh fire-escape - and that wasn't in the full bat suit.

I seem to remember reading that one of Bale's doubles was the Parkour/Free running guy Cyril Raffaelli, who can be seen in the movie "Districs B13". I'm sure he's capable of all kinds of cool Batman-like stuff if they'd try.

Watch Parkour explode in popularity after the opening action scene in Casino Royale, and watch it influence a lot of hollywood movies - Batman included.

Nolan could stand to take a look at Tony Jaa as well. Not to mention Jackie Chan. Not to blatantly copy those styles of action, but to take it to that level of physicality and acrobatics.

If they want to use that stuff in a Batman movie, they better start using a less bulky neoprene suit like in the Spider-Man movies. Again, they use those water coils in space suits and massive fat suits. You can't be jumping buildings in something that cumbersome.

:wolverine

[The Batman]

I really wish they'd kept the event before the double murder a viewing of a classic Zorro movie. It would give the opportunity for Thomas to make a mention of how he wished Bruce would idolize a more cerebral character, like Sherlock Holmes-- and then Bruce grows up to be a match for both characters. Wait... no. That would require Thomas Wayne to be something other than the most genial father ever, and also a deliberate emphasis on the Batman as a detective.

He first appeared and still appears in 'Detective Comics', God dammit. His most used title next to "Dark Knight" is "World's Greatest Detective." R'as Al Ghul and his daughter always referred to him as "Detective" in the comics. But hey, it's just a small detail.

Can you believe I actually saw someone on one of these forums say they hope they wait a couple movies before they really get into the detective work aspects, since the Batman is just starting out? I wanted to reach through the screen and smack him. I mean, how can someone be so oblivious and ignorant?

The Batman is a detective first and foremost. Yes, the cape and cowl and action are important, but the underlying theme of it all is that he's using investigative methods. But hey, it's much simpler to just have Carmine Falcone-- supposedly the crime lord of Gotham-- be at a crime scene and have the Batman pull him out of his car and leave him for the cops, and they are able to successfully prosecute him because there's only one corrupt judge in all of Gotham City.

Like I said, I like this movie, but the more I look at it, the worse it looks. The plot was extensively flawed and extremely unrealistic. People want realism so badly? This film failed at that in both the social structural/criminological elements and at the sci-fi plot. I can handle a man dodging bullets and doing acrobatics in a cape. I cannot tolerate that bull**** microwave emmitter (it's not that it exists, it's how they used it) and Falcone (who was completely mischaracterized in every way) being seen anywhere near a crime scene.

:wolverine

Amen.

Batman's greatest strength is his brain. Too bad they forgot that

[SilentType]

I really wish they'd kept the event before the double murder a viewing of a classic Zorro movie.
I heard they weren't allowed to use Zorro.

He first appeared and still appears in 'Detective Comics', God dammit. His most used title next to "Dark Knight" is "World's Greatest Detective." R'as Al Ghul and his daughter always referred to him as "Detective" in the comics. But hey, it's just a small detail.

Can you believe I actually saw someone on one of these forums say they hope they wait a couple movies before they really get into the detective work aspects, since the Batman is just starting out?
I don't see what was wrong with the BB detective work. Sure, he didn't break out a CSI kit or type some data into a batcomputer, but he did detective work. I honestly don't mind them waiting for the second movie for him to start complex chemical analysis, perhaps learning things on the way. I wouldn’t mind seeing him BECOMING the worlds greatest detective.
I wanted to reach through the screen and smack him. I mean, how can someone be so oblivious and ignorant? See, this is where your credibility plummets.

[kenellard]

I heard they weren't allowed to use Zorro.


I don't see what was wrong with the BB detective work. Sure, he didn't break out a CSI kit or type some data into a batcomputer, but he did detective work. I honestly don't mind them waiting for the second movie for him to start complex chemical analysis, perhaps learning things on the way. I wouldn’t mind seeing him BECOMING the worlds greatest detective.

didn't he spend the years after his parents death training and learning detective skills so he could fight crime?

[SilentType]

didn't he spend the years after his parents death training and learning detective skills so he could fight crime?
Training alone doesn't make you the worlds best anything. That takes some experience.

[Herr Logan]

I heard they weren't allowed to use Zorro.

That's a shame.

I don't see what was wrong with the BB detective work. Sure, he didn't break out a CSI kit or type some data into a batcomputer, but he did detective work. I honestly don't mind them waiting for the second movie for him to start complex chemical analysis, perhaps learning things on the way. I wouldn’t mind seeing him BECOMING the worlds greatest detective.

There's other kinds of detective work than CSI kits and complex chemical analyses.

In fact, they probably could have used just what was in the movie if they just did some exposition. Yeah, yeah, showing his notes saves time, but Batman in the comics is either seen finding evidene or he exposits to Alfred or Robin, thereby showing he didn't get things handed to him on a silver platter.
That still would have left them with an incredibly flawed plot (for the reasons I mentioned above), but at least we could say they focused on one of the most important elements of the Batman.

Becoming the World's Greatest Detective? They didn't show him learning detective skills before he got to Gotham. A faithful and more "realistic" approach would have required that they put that in. The real Batman didn't start training himself to be the World's Greatest Detective after his years abroad, he was training for years beforehand. Yeah, maybe they'll show flashbacks of this happening in future movies-- I know they're going to kill some time with flashbacks of his father-- but I doubt it. I'll assume the detective aspect will always be second to the "rage-filled animal" aspect until I see otherwise.

Nolan's got a 'Braveheart' theme going ("people need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy"), not a crime drama theme, which is a failure on his and the writers' parts. The Batman isn't an inspirational character. He uses fear of physical and legal consequences to scare people into ceasing their wrongful acts, not his heroism to inspire people to do good works. Bruce Wayne is more inspirational than the Batman, despite his playboy image.

The animated series got it right. I don't see what's so hard about doing that for a movie. And no, the differences in media aren't even a factor. You simply write and direct in the same style for an longer period of time and choose your elements carefully.
'Mask of the Phantasm' went for a noir, crime drama theme as well, and despite its gratuitous focus on love lost (in proportion to the rest of it, which could have been more extensive and fleshed out in its detective/crime elements), it "got it right."

See, this is where your credibility plummets.

It was one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. Pardon me for not sugar-coating it. I have no patience for that kind of thing, and I don't pretend otherwise. Does that make me intolerant? No moreso than those who condemn elements of the comics that aren't being used yet in the movies, calling them "silly." There are times when I myself doubt myself when I start forming ideas for hypothetical movies that deviate from the comics in plot or details a little too much, so I certainly don't tolerate people who'd rather ignore important elements of the title character. I don't consider myself a fanatic (then again, few fanatics do), but I certainly draw a line when someone says that the Batman shouldn't be portrayed as a brilliant detective until future movies. That's just too stupid for words, considering the obvious facts of the Batman.

Hell, even that shallow TV cartoon (that was created only to sell toys, even moreso than any Marvel cartoon) 'The Batman' gives the Batman's detective theme its due. Wait... I may just be thinking of 'The Batman vs. Dracula', which I actually found to be a very good movie, despite my own prejudices against the series it spun off of.

Point is, I don't need the credibility of those who agree with the person I was talking about, but I don't know if you are one of those people or not at this point. It would save me some time in deliberating the content of future posts if you would clear that up for me. So far, you made a very flimsy excuse for the failures of 'Batman Begins' and criticized my points on the basis of how I addressed the people I resent. I'm here to "shake [people] out of apathy" with "dramatic examples," not coddle people who are anti-source material.

:wolverine

[kenellard]

Training alone doesn't make you the worlds best anything. That takes some experience.

I guess that's where Qui gon Jinn comes in

[Herr Logan]

Training alone doesn't make you the worlds best anything. That takes some experience.

Yeah, which is why the real Batman trained with other detectives. But that wouldn't be as easy to tie into the main plot as having him train with one of his greatest enemies, so it shouldn't be in the movie, right?

If they were going to do an origin story, they should have shown him training with the ninja master Kirigi in Korea (learning all the same stuff he learned in 'Begins' except terrorism) and either with manhunter Henri Ducard in Paris or detective Willie Dogget in North America and left it at that. Maybe some clips of him learning to use a boomerang in Africa and bolas in Argentina (that would only be if he used a real batarang and bolas instead of just golden bat-shuriken and mini-bombs). Half an hour, if that.
Does that produce an interesting villain at the end? No, but it shows how he "begins" in a more complete and faithful fashion. Then he could have had an actual crime story to work with, using the real Falcone and the real Detective Flass. But it was easier and/or more ego-gratifying to bastardize 'Year One' and R'as Al Ghul in a James Bond-esque plot instead.

:wolverine

[SilentType]

Yeah, which is why the real Batman trained with other detectives. But that wouldn't be as easy to tie into the main plot as having him train with one of his greatest enemies, so it shouldn't be in the movie, right?



If they were going to do an origin story, they should have shown him training with the ninja master Kirigi in Korea (learning all the same stuff he learned in 'Begins' except terrorism) and either with manhunter Henri Ducard in Paris or detective Willie Dogget in North America and left it at that. Maybe some clips of him learning to use a boomerang in Africa and bolas in Argentina (that would only be if he used a real batarang and bolas instead of just golden bat-shuriken and mini-bombs). Half an hour, if that.

Does that produce an interesting villain at the end? No, but it shows how he "begins" in a more complete and faithful fashion. Then he could have had an actual crime story to work with, using the real Falcone and the real Detective Flass. But it was easier and/or more ego-gratifying to bastardize 'Year One' and R'as Al Ghul in a James Bond-esque plot instead.




Or they can do what they did and have him grow and hone his skills through experience

[Herr Logan]

Or they can do what they did and have him grow and hone his skills through experience

If he starts training to be the World's Greatest Detective while in Gotham in his 20's, then he won't be that for years, and he's not a passable Batman.

So am I to take it you agree with that person I described? I'm not arguing this point with you. Either you get it or you don't. I'm truly incredulous that someone would ever argue for that idea.

:wolverine

[SilentType]

If he starts training to be the World's Greatest Detective while in Gotham in his 20's, then he won't be that for years, and he's not a passable Batman.
So am I to take it you agree with that person I described? I'm not arguing this point with you. Either you get it or you don't. I'm truly incredulous that someone would ever argue for that idea.


Did I say he has no detective experience? No. I said he wasn't yet the "World Greatest Detective"

[The Riddler]

i wish they added lenses. :yay:

[The Watchman]

I wanna see him hone his sexual prowess, but that's just me and Morrison I suppose :(

[Herr Logan]

i wish they added lenses. :yay:

Same here.

What would you have them look like? (ex. blank white, mirrored, slightly translucent, etc.)

:wolverine

[kenellard]

Same here.

What would you have them look like? (ex. blank white, mirrored, slightly translucent, etc.)

:wolverine

I'd love it if they were pure white but slightly incandescent, which could be easily explained with 20 seconds of techno-babble from fox

[deathfromabove]

lenses would look horrible.

originally the eyes were drawn white as a stylistic touch. it was far easier to draw white eyes than to try and draw pupils. and in the comics it just looks cool.

only in recent years have they actually made up a reason for this (talk about revisionism:whatever: )

but white eyes in a comic can express emotion depending on how they are drawn. you can draw suprise, fear, or anger into those little white slits but white lenses in live action would take away one of the actors most important tools.

yeah, yeah i read what you said about the actor not trying hard enough, the director not trying hard enough and that is total bollocks. you clearly don't know much about acting if you think the eyes are that unimportant.

this is what i was talking about before. different mediums. different approaches. why would you want to give an actor like bale (or any actor) that kind of handicap just so it is faithful to a drawing? are you also going to give him an animatronic eyebrow ridge so it matches the artwork?

and why is it every artistic decision that you dont agree with is cowardice?

[Herr Logan]

I'm not going to argue anymore about the "can the Batman act without his eyes" thing. You either can imagine a Batman who uses other means to communicate (i.e., every other means there is that he's been known to use), or you can't.
I'm not personally guilty of robbing people of imagination, so it's not my fault that this is an issue for so many people.

The fact is, I could tolerate them not giving the Batman lenses if they could show enough knowledge of the source material and restraint to not rely so heavily on the actor's eyes. He doesn't need his eyes when he's in the cowl. Michael Keaton barely did anything with his eyes when he was the Batman and he came off like a cold, creepy son of a ******. You know, like the Batman is supposed to?

If they could get Bale to stop screaming, rasping and settle on a proper voice, get a cowl that fits his face and direct him to act like a cold, calculating avenger instead of an angry, back-alley leg-breaker, there would be no need for the lenses. As it is, they have failed to make the Batman similar to a truly "inhuman" creature when it comes to a face-to-face confrontation (no, hallucinations don't count). I thought the lenses might help them out, since they haven't gotten it right yet, but what do I know. I'm interested in seeing a live-action version of the Batman, and people seem to prefer something more akin to a toned-down Wolverine that doesn't kill and uses impractical equipment.
Rage-filled beast... yeah, real impressive, Nolan.

:wolverine

[Hades]

It hink you people get too carried away on the costume.
Batmans costume is a strange thing, though. I think you have to strike in the middle of fictional and realistic. Peopel seem to get too carried away on both sides.