Why is Iceman always getting "sucker punched"?

[ProfeZZor X]

I can accept the writers making him a "B" list character, but damn... It seems like everytime he's in a confrontation with a villain he always get's knocked out or sucker punched, and is out cold for the rest of the fight.

This guy has been around since the very beginning, has encountered hundreds of villains, had a hole blown right through his chest (Onslaught arc), evaporated into mist (X-Men Forever arc), his head blown off (Nightcrawler/Azael arc), and the only thing the writers can come up with is to have him, and ONLY him (out of the entire team) get punched with an only obvious blow from a villain standing only a foot or two away, then knocked out cold until all the "A" list characters defeat the villains. He's either really stupid, or writers are steadily running out of ways to disable team members without resorting to physical blows.

Case in point, is the Blood Of Apocalypse story line (recent issue). How is it that he can do an offensive move on Gambit (the horseman), then turn his back to make a comment to Rogue on not hurting him, then Gambit knocks him out? What the bloody hell?

How does he go from being one of the top 5 omega class mutants, to the sorriest loser in X-Men history? (Please no omega class discussions, it's been done already)...

[Honey Vibe]

I can accept the writers making him a "B" list character, but damn... It seems like everytime he's in a confrontation with a villain he always get's knocked out or sucker punched, and is out cold for the rest of the fight.

This guy has been around since the very beginning, has encountered hundreds of villains, had a hole blown right through his chest (Onslaught arc), evaporated into mist (X-Men Forever arc), his head blown off (Nightcrawler/Azael arc), and the only thing the writers can come up with is to have him, and ONLY him (out of the entire team) get punched with an only obvious blow from a villain standing only a foot or two away. Well that just makes it hilarious, doesn't it? :(

[chamber-music]

At least he doesn't get the northstar treatment!

[jaydawg]

But Iceman doesnt suck...

[ProfeZZor X]

At least he doesn't get the northstar treatment!

Northstar doesn't get humiliated by other team members, or have lame excuses why his powers don't work (got scared of losing his powers after House of M, but really turned them off himself, even though his secondary mutation was PERMANENT) , or get knocked out after a villain hits him just once.... Northstar may be out of the action for the moment, but he still has his dignity and integrity.

[FieryBalrog]

Same reason Wolverine always gets shot.

Because he can take it.

[Cyclops]

Not to mention the fact that he's... well, he's ICEMAN, a character who's been conditioned for a very long time to be a total loser.

[Manic]

Iceman is pretty much being used as a measuring stick. Bobby is basically unkillable, so writers feel free have him knocked out and shattered on a regular basis just to get the point across that the villain is supposed to be a badass. They did the same thing to Superman during the first season of the Justice League cartoon. The writers eventually caught that, and started fixing it. Here's hoping Marvel's staff catches on, too.

[ProfeZZor X]

Not to mention the fact that he's... well, he's ICEMAN, a character who's been conditioned for a very long time to be a total loser.

So true.... I'd rather see him killed off than to endure his constant disgrace and humility. Sometimes I think they're just keeping him around because he's an original member. And to be honest, if they did kill him off, I'd more than likely stop reading X-Men comics. He's pretty much the only reason why I still collect'em.

[ghost113]

iceman is a really cool character he just needs a writer who likes him enough to get him out of this funk he is in

[ProfeZZor X]

Iceman is pretty much being used as a measuring stick. Bobby is basically unkillable, so writers feel free have him knocked out and shattered on a regular basis just to get the point across that the villain is supposed to be a badass. They did the same thing to Superman during the first season of the Justice League cartoon. The writers eventually caught that, and started fixing it. Here's hoping Marvel's staff catches on, too.

In a recent interview with the writer of the upcoming Avengers Civil War arc, the "b" list characters are suppose to be getting more "screen time", and the "a" listers wont be as prominent. This will also tie in to the X-Men, as some of the "a" list X-Men will be involved with that story as well.... And like yo said, "here's to hoping"

[ProfeZZor X]

iceman is a really cool character he just needs a writer who likes him enough to get him out of this funk he is in

I say bring back the writer from Uncanny #300-310. He, and Romita Jr. did an incredible job with Iceman. That was the main reason why I got back into comics, because of how they portrayed Iceman.... Great story arc, great illustrations, and great character (with balls).

[ghost113]

maybe the writer but i've never really enjoyed romita's work.

[ProfeZZor X]

maybe the writer but i've never really enjoyed romita's work.

You can't tell me this is not one of the best looking Iceman illustrations ever... (By John Romita Jr.).. His current powers are far and few from what you see below. And the funny thing is, this is within the same timeline as right now. There were many story arcs that have gone by, but there weren't any that would change today's continuity. Legion Quest could possibly be one, but even that reverted back to the "normal" X-Men continuity when it was all over.

Whoever started writing stories after this, didn't have Iceman in mind.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/ScottStevensDevils/Uncanny_X_Men_302_13_m.jpg

[ProfeZZor X]

Like I said.... Sucker punched:

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/041906/images/xm185p3.gif
http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/041906/images/xm185p4.gif

And why does he have that weird extraterrestrial look. Did Emma ever correct the problem he has with his powers yet?

[ghost113]

okay his work is good but i must not like his work on spider man

[ProfeZZor X]

okay his work is good but i must not like his work on spider man

I agree with you though. Most of his work isn't very good, but this is the one issue that got me back into comics. I started buying tons of back issues to find out how Iceman became this "man's - man" of mutants. By the time the Onslaught arc finished, he was reduced to the ball-less loser that he is today. Even in the X-men Forever arc, he was still reluctant to use his powers creatively.

[ghost113]

he did use one of his new powers but not in any of milligans arcs it was the one where they found Xorn in china, He uses size changing to fight a group of guys who were able to merge and become this one big guy.

[ProfeZZor X]

he did use one of his new powers but not in any of milligans arcs it was the one where they found Xorn in china, He uses size changing to fight a group of guys who were able to merge and become this one big guy.

True, he hasn't done that before, but he has used the moisture in his surroundings to increase his mass before. Like the picture shown above. It just hasn't been on the scale of that one issue you mentioned. Still though, in the beginning of that fight, he was getting the crap kicked out of him.

[GNR]

He got suckered in Ultimate X-Men too by Kitty.

[Advocate05]

Wow. That was a lame sucker punch too.

Lame.

They need to stop treating him like a child. Everyone matures, its not like only in Comics do people not mature.

[Exploding Boy]

I never understood why his hair went away when he iced up.

[ProfeZZor X]

I never understood why his hair went away when he iced up.

I don't have an answer for that one, but I would guess that the tiny little strands would break off when converting himself to ice. Then again, the picture above shows him with a full head of hair. I guess it all depends on the artist.

Although it wouldn't make any sense for it to fall off when he ices up, then return as soon as he converts back to flesh.

[Exploding Boy]

Yeah, i always liked him better with hair.

[ghost113]

me too.

[Cyclops]

I had always understood it to be him being coated in ice before the Age of Apocalypse came around, but well, I dunno. I don't think comics are supposed to make sense.

[MoPlaYa]

Iceman has been the immature kid for FAR TOO LONG in the comics....I think its time for him to grow up and kick ass!!

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

He should replace Wolvie in the Avengers, he needs a new start in another team.

[Icicle]

http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=astonishingxmen41in.jpg
Which series of X-men comics does Iceman look like that? :o.

[ghost113]

AoA astonishing X-men

[Exile]

It seems that of all the original X-Men, after Phoenix, Iceman has the MOST potential. Its about time he lives up to it!

[ghost113]

maybe the right writer will come around and show how much power he actually has.

[ProfeZZor X]

He should replace Wolvie in the Avengers, he needs a new start in another team.

I think if he was placed on a more responsible and respected team, like the Avengers, or Defenders, he'd probably straighten up and get with the program.

It's just a shame that Marvel lets travesties like this happen, and let one of their original all-star's be degraded by the almighty pen (of a writer than can care less).

[ghost113]

I wonder what Stan Lee thinks of these or does he not even read his own characters any more.

[ProfeZZor X]

I wonder what Stan Lee thinks of these or does he not even read his own characters any more.

He sold his soul to the devil a long time ago. Now us fans have to put up with crap like this and read what "corporate America" tells us to read.

[FieryBalrog]

Its not that Iceman shouldnt be portrayed as a slacker and a joker- its part of his character. Its that I hate how Milligan, Austen and nearly everyone else has made him into an ass and a whiner. For the love of Thor can someone write him as the light-hearted angst-buster he was meant to be.

[TwilightPro101]

Back before Operation Zero Tolerance, he did a little bit of leading and handled it well enough. But I do agree, he is underrated.

[ghost113]

Hopefully mike Carey can help him some.

[Manic]

Its not that Iceman shouldnt be portrayed as a slacker and a joker- its part of his character. Its that I hate how Milligan, Austen and nearly everyone else has made him into an ass and a whiner. For the love of Thor can someone write him as the light-hearted angst-buster he was meant to be.
Light-hearted? Bite your tongue! None of the original X-Men are allowed to be witty, anymore. Iceman's child-like fun nature? Replaced with childish whining. Beast's witty dialogue? We'll have none of that! Joss Whedon writes witty dialogue in his sleep, but heaven forbid any of Kitty & Emma's one-liners go to anyone else.

[ghost113]

Beast and iceman haven't been fun in a really long time.

[Doc Destruction]

Many COMICS haven't been fun in a really long time =/

[ghost113]

like mr. Incredible superheroes never get a break the world is always in danger.

[TwilightPro101]

The only time Beast and Iceman were last having fun...albet in a forced fashion was post-Day of the Atom around Christmas.

Okay, I'm slowly catching up again.

[ghost113]

Oh yes that was a very good christmaas issue when Gambit was a good guy and there were actual students at the school.

[ProfeZZor X]

Oh yes that was a very good christmaas issue when Gambit was a good guy and there were actual students at the school.

Today's writers are writing just to get a paycheck. No one seems to either care, or remember the good times the X-Men use to have. Although, even back in the 1990's things started taking a change for the worse with the progression of Iceman. I will say though that the writing was good back then, compared to now.

The only issue that I recall Beast and Iceman having any interaction was just before the Legion Quest story arc back in the late 1990's, and right after. Iceman was in the lab talking to Beast, and discussing his need to be more powerful and commanding than what he was (then). This was shortly after Emma had posessed his body. Looks like that idea fizzled out by the next story arc.

[ghost113]

Wait when was the last time they were even in the same page or paanel or book.

[ProfeZZor X]

Wait when was the last time they were even in the same page or paanel or book.

And how is it that they didn't come up with a special move like Wolverine and Colossus' "Fastball Special"? After all, they were closer friends than Wolvie and Piotr were.

[ghost113]

I even had an idea for iceman to make a slide and beast would roll up into a ball and knock the enemies down

[Banshee]

Theres some pretty good beast/iceman interaction in the x-men mutant empire trilogy of books. Also, those are really good for classic x-men characterization. They are pretty old, but the only x-comic i read rigth now is astonishing, so i have no input there.

[ProfeZZor X]

Theres some pretty good beast/iceman interaction in the x-men mutant empire trilogy of books. Also, those are really good for classic x-men characterization. They are pretty old, but the only x-comic i read rigth now is astonishing, so i have no input there.

You just said it right there. And when they gave him his secondary mutation, why couldn't they make him more powerful looking... Like the Thing, but made out of jagged ice.

[Fuzzy Dude Fan]

Looks like I'll have to pick up X-Men again, after reading this interview with Mike Carey http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=7136

The parts that stuck out for me:

Beast: Are you going to confirm Bobby's often implied bisexuality?
icemaster: So what can you tell us about Iceman? And is he going to ever get a girlfriend again?
Mike Carey: Iceman will have a relationship, although it will be a while coming. I want to play up the strong links between Iceman, Rogue and Cannonball: they're a stable unit within a very unstable team.

TheSentryLives: As we all know, Iceman has his powers back, but it is not known if he is still omega level. Will you work with him from a weaker aspect or explore his potential?
Mike Carey: I'm glad you brought that up. Iceman's powers are potentially huge, and I do want to show him using them in some innovative ways.

Affinity: Mike, Iceman will be a part of your new lineup, correct? Will the character finally grow up in terms of powers? Surely the prankster personality will stick around, but his powers...will he finally unlock the potential he has?
Mike Carey: Yes. I want to explore a lot of things that he can do, but never or rarely ever has.
Mitsaso: What will Iceman's attitude be character-wise? With all of the drama around him (and a bit of his own too) will he wise up, mellow down or just be the team's comic relief?
Mike Carey: Not comic relief. He's got more combat experience than almost anyone. I want to show a different side to his nature, and perhaps ground that flippancy in something more solid.

:up: Sounds good.

[Midnight Ice]

I hope all of what he siad is true. Its about time Iceman was written right. :xmen:

[Icicle]

Wow! This is relieving news. Thanks for the heads-up!

[ghost113]

good to hear this news

[FieryBalrog]

Iceman, Rogue and Cannonball? Were they really big pals? :confused:

[Midnight Ice]

Well, I know Rogue and Iceman got pretty close a while back.

Maybe he is just referring to them having more veteren status as opposed to the rest of the new line up. :xmen:

[ghost113]

theyare all around the same age and probaly undersatnd each other better

[Manic]

theyare all around the same age and probaly undersatnd each other better
That's what I was thinking. Bobby, Sam, and Anna have been involved in superheroics (or villainy) since they were kids. The people they are today were forged in the heat of battle before they finished puberty. They're young (what are they, in their early/mid 20s?), roughly the same age, and would probably understand each other better than anyone else on the team. I think it sounds like a pretty cool team dynamic. We need to explore more friendships in the X-Men, and less melodrama.

[Fuzzy Dude Fan]

Iceman, Rogue and Cannonball? Were they really big pals? :confused:

I think Bobby had a more mentor type relationship with Sam, during the Lobdell Run. Not too sure though.

[Odin's Lapdog]

I can accept the writers making him a "B" list character, but damn... It seems like everytime he's in a confrontation with a villain he always get's knocked out or sucker punched, and is out cold for the rest of the fight.
.it comes with the title i suppose...

[Colossal Spoons]

Let's hope the new writer of X-Men will do him some justice.

[The Englishman]

Whats this "often implied Bisexuality" Bollocks, am i blind cos i don't remember reading any of these character traits in Iceman??

[Manic]

Whats this "often implied Bisexuality" Bollocks, am i blind cos i don't remember reading any of these character traits in Iceman??
Neither do I. The only time I ever remember associating Bobby with bisexuality was when Northstar was around and had a crush on him. I remember thinking "wouldn't it be something if JP got his wish, and Bobby was bi?" But Austen made it fairly clear that JP's feelings were one-sided.

[ghost113]

That would have been weird.

[Valechan]

The most interesting part about that interview is that there are plans for Illyana somewhere :D

[ProfeZZor X]

Neither do I. The only time I ever remember associating Bobby with bisexuality was when Northstar was around and had a crush on him. I remember thinking "wouldn't it be something if JP got his wish, and Bobby was bi?" But Austen made it fairly clear that JP's feelings were one-sided.

I've always wondered where that Bi-seuality rumor came from. I've probably followed this character longer than anyone here, and no where is it mentioned in previous comics that he had a sexual fondness for men. Even when he was made aware that JP was attracted to him, he seemed oblivious, yet flattered, but definitely NOT interested in him...

Otherwise, he would have dated Northstar instead of Annie. He also wouldn't have pursued Lorna either.

[ghost113]

Exactly I really hope iceman doesn't end up bi .

[ProfeZZor X]

Judging by this picture, it looks like Iceman's right arm is turning into mist. Let's hope Carey is right when he says he'll use Iceman's powers more creatively and make him God-like.

**EDIT - Just a piece of debris in front of his arm.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview.php?image=solicits/marvelcomics/200607/XMEN188COVER1_400.jpg