Justice League Vs Avengers

[Class100strngth]

This might have already been a post due to the Dc marvel crossover. Im just curious , the fact that the avengers can stand against the justice league is quite spectacular. In Dc marvel crossovers Thor and superman fight , superman beats him but throughout the series , it appears that the rest of the justice league is very weak , i mean quicksilver fighting the flash .... on and off and quicksilver beating him this is kind of interesting . Green lantern is greatly underestimated in this series , but i do love when captain america goes up against superman , not caring how much power superman has , captain america is amazing , he knows he is no match for superman but still stands up against him. Who do you guys like better the avengers or the justice league , i will [personally go with the avengers because of iron man , vision and captain america.

[TheFalcon]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say most people here is going to say Justice League. Atleast they've got my vote.

And the Justice League is much more powerful than the Avengers (depending on their members of course). Flash, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter could take on anyone and win.

[The Question]

Well, I'm assuming we're going for the most popular/iconic line ups. Those being:



Justice League:

Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
Aquaman
The Flash


Avengers:

Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision


Now, the major clicnher in this fight would really be The Flash. Thor, while not having Superman's reflexes/reaction time, has a great deal more range, seeing as how he can conjur up a pretty nasty storm, ao thoaw two are pretty evenly matched. Captain America would defeat Batman, Scarlet Witch could hold her own againts Green Lantern, The Vision would be able to deal with Martian Manhunter, and Giant Man is capable of reaching sizes where he would be a formidable oponent for Wonder Woman and Aquaman. The Flash, however, trumps Quicksilver in terms of speed, and could conceivably disable the other Avengers at high speed, or at least mess with them.


Also, you have to consider tactics. Thor and Scarlet Witch would most likely pool their powers to teleport both groups to some secluded location, possible a place where the Avengers would have the upper hand. Also, Martian Manhunter would have the League in a telepathic link, giving them a greater stratigic advantage. Also, Vision (and martian Manhunter, who has similar powers) could preform a "Superman Smasher", as I call it. Basically, he would fly into the upper atmosphere, increase his body's density to maximum (where he weighs roughly 90 tons), and then free falls, slamming into his desired target (most likely the oposition's heavyest hitter), slamming into him or her at terminal velocity. If either Vision or Martian Manhunter did this, they could definately take out the bigger players like Thor and Superman quite early in the game.


Really, depending on how well they stratigise, it could go either way.

[TheFalcon]

Well, I'm assuming we're going for the most popular/iconic line ups. Those being:



Justice League:

Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
Aquaman
The Flash


Avengers:

Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision


Now, the major clicnher in this fight would really be The Flash. Thor, while not having Superman's reflexes/reaction time, has a great deal more range, seeing as how he can conjur up a pretty nasty storm, ao thoaw two are pretty evenly matched. Captain America would defeat Batman, Scarlet Witch could hold her own againts Green Lantern, The Vision would be able to deal with Martian Manhunter, and Giant Man is capable of reaching sizes where he would be a formidable oponent for Wonder Woman and Aquaman. The Flash, however, trumps Quicksilver in terms of speed, and could conceivably disable the other Avengers at high speed, or at least mess with them.


Also, you have to consider tactics. Thor and Scarlet Witch would most likely pool their powers to teleport both groups to some secluded location, possible a place where the Avengers would have the upper hand. Also, Martian Manhunter would have the League in a telepathic link, giving them a greater stratigic advantage. Also, Vision (and martian Manhunter, who has similar powers) could preform a "Superman Smasher", as I call it. Basically, he would fly into the upper atmosphere, increase his body's density to maximum (where he weighs roughly 90 tons), and then free falls, slamming into his desired target (most likely the oposition's heavyest hitter), slamming into him or her at terminal velocity. If either Vision or Martian Manhunter did this, they could definately take out the bigger players like Thor and Superman quite early in the game.


Really, depending on how well they stratigise, it could go either way.

I think the deciding factors are brains, speed and communication.
Flash and the heavy hitters like Superman, WW and MM could easily keep alot of the Avengers busy long enough for Batman to analyze their opponents and come up with a plan to take them out. Then MM delivers the plan to everyone telepathically. Both of them are protected by GL, who could probably also join in the fight at the same time.
The telepathic link gives the JLA a big advantage since they don't have to give orders in the open and Flash's speed is another big advantage. Therefore I think the JLA takes it.

[The Question]

I doubt that in a battle situation, Batman would be calmly "analyzing their oponents." In a fight like that, he'd be forced to make stuff up on the fly. And also, remember, The Avengers are not idiots, and they are capable of tactical thinking themselves (hell, Cap is probably just as smart as Batman is). Wanda and Thor, pooling theri powers, could scatter the League apart. And, like I said, The Vision would atempt to take out their heavy hitters by doing what I described. It could easily go either way.

[TheFalcon]

I doubt that in a battle situation, Batman would be calmly "analyzing their oponents." In a fight like that, he'd be forced to make stuff up on the fly. And also, remember, The Avengers are not idiots, and they are capable of tactical thinking themselves (hell, Cap is probably just as smart as Batman is). Wanda and Thor, pooling theri powers, could scatter the League apart. And, like I said, The Vision would atempt to take out their heavy hitters by doing what I described. It could easily go either way.

Batman would be protected by Green Lantern while planning, but even if he doesn't have much time he's a pretty good improviser.

But like I said it all depends on who reacts first and gets a tactic ready. I think JLA has the advantage there because of the telepatich link and GL can shield everyone. Flash's speed is also a big advantage since he can take Capt America out of the fight pretty fast.

In short it could go either way, but I think the JLA has the advantage.

[The Question]

Batman would be protected by Green Lantern while planning, but even if he doesn't have much time he's a pretty good improviser.

But like I said it all depends on who reacts first and gets a tactic ready. I think JLA has the advantage there because of the telepatich link and GL can shield everyone. Flash's speed is also a big advantage since he can take Capt America out of the fight pretty fast.

In short it could go either way, but I think the JLA has the advantage.


Scarlet Witch could easily nuetralize GL. She waves her hands, he's rolling on the ground and suffering from massive seizures. Hard to concentrait then, don't you think?

[KaptainKrypton]

Justice League:
Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
Aquaman
The Flash
Avengers:
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision

I'd definitely go with the JLA on this one. The Avengers isn't an all-star team like the JLA is in my opinion. The prime x-factor with the Avengers I think would have to be the qualities of Thor and Scarlet Witch. Both being magic beings they would pose a problem for Superman who is definitely the quarterback of the opposing squad (lest J'onn keeps them busy, then they're all in big trouble). Location would also play an important role because if it was anywhere near a body of water (New York, Metropolis, California coast), then Aquaman is definitely a few notches above the others on the food chain (he's always underestimated, too). In the end, though, I just don't see the Avengers pulling it out on this one due to the Flash's raw speed, Wonder Woman's fierce nature, and Batman's intelligence. As much as I hate always hearing about it, Batman is never unprepared to deal with a threat (even if he's thinking on the fly). The only way that Batman could be nullified is if Stark can invent some kind of gadget or weapon to deal with his foes. This is a damn tough question, though, because so many variables could determine the victory. If you're just talking about some kind of straight-up fight though, the mathematics spell doom for the Avengers, to me anyway.

[The Question]

I'd definitely go with the JLA on this one. The Avengers isn't an all-star team like the JLA is in my opinion.

All star does not mean win. Scarlet Witch may not be hella popular, but she could probably kick Green Lantern's ass.

The prime x-factor with the Avengers I think would have to be the qualities of Thor and Scarlet Witch. Both being magic beings they would pose a problem for Superman who is definitely the quarterback of the opposing squad (lest J'onn keeps them busy, then they're all in big trouble).

How would J'onn keep them busy? Telepathically? Thor has been shown to have a level of resistance against psychic atacks before.

Location would also play an important role because if it was anywhere near a body of water (New York, Metropolis, California coast), then Aquaman is definitely a few notches above the others on the food chain (he's always underestimated, too).

How so? Water doesn't make him physically stronger, and he can't control it. The only up would be that he can comunicate with marine life. But that would only be of use if he could get someone down deep in the water. I doubt any city coasts have whales or giant squids living in them.

In the end, though, I just don't see the Avengers pulling it out on this one due to the Flash's raw speed, Wonder Woman's fierce nature,

I'll give you the deal with Flash's speed. He is damn fast. But Wonder Woman's feirce nature? Thor's got that in spades.

and Batman's intelligence. As much as I hate always hearing about it, Batman is never unprepared to deal with a threat (even if he's thinking on the fly).

You do realize that Cap is just as smart as Batman, right? And also, Batman can be unprepared for a threat. Like, when he's unprepared for a threat. It is impossible to prepare for everything. If he's thrown into a situation where he has no idea what's going on, he will not be prepared.

The only way that Batman could be nullified is if Stark can invent some kind of gadget or weapon to deal with his foes.

Or, maybe, if Thor smacked him over the head with his big scary hammer. Or, if Captain America opened up a can of whup ass on him.

This is a damn tough question, though, because so many variables could determine the victory. If you're just talking about some kind of straight-up fight though, the mathematics spell doom for the Avengers, to me anyway.

No, they don't. You're seriously under-estimating them. Or over-estimating the League. Either way.

[Guyverjay]

LOL

I think its hilarious when someone says the JLA beat the avengers because of Batman:D

Not because of the speed advantge, not because of the Flash, Supes or J'onn, or even GL and WW but BATMAN??

[The Question]

I love Batman, but Cap would kick his ass. The League's main advantage is The Flash. He would be the main deciding factor.

[Guyverjay]

I kow of a marvel team worhty of taking on the JLA

Okay they only fought together for like one issue but still...

Silver Surfer
Dr Strange
Thanos and the infinity watch

This is the "team" that stormed Asgard

[The Question]

Dude, against such a team, the League would get savagely anally raped so hard it's not even funny. Thanos alone would pose an ample threat to the entire group.

[KaptainKrypton]

All star does not mean win. Scarlet Witch may not be hella popular, but she could probably kick Green Lantern's ass.
Oh, I wouldn't doubt she could get the drop on GL. She'd have to do it in a hurry though, because if that ring is raised in her direction she's in deep ****. This also depends on which universe you're talking about having the battle occur in as well (if you even are).

How would J'onn keep them busy? Telepathically? Thor has been shown to have a level of resistance against psychic atacks before.Manhunter is also carrying strength on par with Thor as well as flight, shapeshifting, and matter phasing for his own body. If Superman didn't already take care of Thor (which I believe he's done before in a handy fashion) then this wouldn't help matters. However, if The Avengers learned J'onn's weakenss, then all they'd have to do is bring a Bic lighter and some Kingsford lighter fluid and...presto. As for Wanda, once again her magic is the only x-factor, but if I personally don't think that even with all of her probability control and teleportation of objects she could do much (although maybe I'm wrong) if The Flash simply deposited her fine behind into the Speed Force (depending on which universe they were in, though Wanda would be stronger in the DC universe so Flash better be on his toes and in the Marvel universe there is no Speed Force, but she's weaker there anyway). Even if the Speed Force thing didn't work, he could run at full speed and punch her in the mouth.
How so? Water doesn't make him physically stronger, and he can't control it. The only up would be that he can comunicate with marine life. But that would only be of use if he could get someone down deep in the water. I doubt any city coasts have whales or giant squids living in them.
Remember he can bring any of the creatures to any point of the water or near the shoreline with the communication abilities (not that this would always spell victory or anything like that). This isn't me underesimating the Avengers by any stretch, as I'd be fearful of susceptibility to Wanda's abilities, but Aquaman is very underestimated in that he is a solid combatant who has greatly enhanced strength and bulletproof skin to also stand on (yes, even on dry land) that could take on Iron Man or Captain America and come up victorious.
I'll give you the deal with Flash's speed. He is damn fast. But Wonder Woman's feirce nature? Thor's got that in spades.
Thor was spanked by Superman and depending on what deal Wonder Woman has going on in her head at the given moment, she may show up with a sword in hand. Of course Thor's got fierceness in spades, I never would've claimed he didn't (I'm of Norwegian descent for pete's sake). He's not dubbed the God of Thunder for his serene disposition.
Or, maybe, if Thor smacked him over the head with his big scary hammer. Or, if Captain America opened up a can of whup ass on him.

There are a handful of JLA members that could squab with Thor head-on (Superman, WW, GL, J'onnz). Last I checked Captain America wasn't the one with a victory over Batman, but what do I know, I just read 'em sometimes.
No, they don't. You're seriously under-estimating them. Or over-estimating the League. Either way.
Quest, it's not that I think they'd get owned or anything like that. I also think that location would play a very important role as the power levels of each have been shown to be varied by which universe they reside in. I'm just looking at the facts garnered by previous matchups and overall power carried by each member separately along with past history, that's all. It's not that I feel an intelligent write-up couldn't yield an Avengers victory, but it had better be a good one, that's all.

[The Question]

Oh, I wouldn't doubt she could get the drop on GL. She'd have to do it in a hurry though, because if that ring is raised in her direction she's in deep ****. This also depends on which universe you're talking about having the battle occur in as well (if you even are).

Why would she bee in deep ****? She could make it so his ring suddenly runs out of power.

Manhunter is also carrying strength on par with Thor as well as flight, shapeshifting, and matter phasing for his own body. If Superman didn't already take care of Thor (which I believe he's done before in a handy fashion) then this wouldn't help matters. However, if The Avengers learned J'onn's weakenss, then all they'd have to do is bring a Bic lighter and some Kingsford lighter fluid and...presto. As for Wanda, once again her magic is the only x-factor, but if I personally don't think that even with all of her probability control and teleportation of objects she could do much (although maybe I'm wrong) if The Flash simply deposited her fine behind into the Speed Force (depending on which universe they were in, though Wanda would be stronger in the DC universe so Flash better be on his toes and in the Marvel universe there is no Speed Force, but she's weaker there anyway). Even if the Speed Force thing didn't work, he could run at full speed and punch her in the mouth.

Well, I agree, Martian Manhunter would probably beat Thor. Superman, it could go either way, but with J'onn, his desnity powers would give him an edge. But remember, The Vision has the same damn powers as J'onn, minus the telepathy and shapeshifting. So I'd think he'd keep him busy. With Wanda, I doubt The Flash would trap her in the speed force. He only does that when he's very desperate, since there's a chance he won't come back. And by that time, she may take him out.

Remember he can bring any of the creatures to any point of the water or near the shoreline with the communication abilities (not that this would always spell victory or anything like that). This isn't me underesimating the Avengers by any stretch, as I'd be fearful of susceptibility to Wanda's abilities, but Aquaman is very underestimated in that he is a solid combatant who has greatly enhanced strength and bulletproof skin to also stand on (yes, even on dry land) that could take on Iron Man or Captain America and come up victorious.

Oh, hand to hand, he'd demolish Cap and Iron Man. But he can't magically make sea creatures apear in front of him when he's in the water. They still have to swim for where ever they are when he calls them. And I doubt there are many whales or giant squids in city shore lines.

Thor was spanked by Superman and depending on what deal Wonder Woman has going on in her head at the given moment, she may show up with a sword in hand. Of course Thor's got fierceness in spades, I never would've claimed he didn't (I'm of Norwegian descent for pete's sake). He's not dubbed the God of Thunder for his serene disposition.

Superman beating Thor was badly written. The descision was based entirely on DC not wanting their star hero to loose. The fight should have been much closer that it was written. In said fight, Thor did alot of stupid **** he normally wouldn't do.

There are a handful of JLA members that could squab with Thor head-on (Superman, WW, GL, J'onnz). Last I checked Captain America wasn't the one with a victory over Batman, but what do I know, I just read 'em sometimes.

Cap can and should beat Batman. He's about twice as string, fast, and agile as Batman. He never gets tired. He's as skilled a hand to hand combatant. And he's just as smart. He would own Batman quite hard.

Quest, it's not that I think they'd get owned or anything like that. I also think that location would play a very important role as the power levels of each have been shown to be varied by which universe they reside in. I'm just looking at the facts garnered by previous matchups and overall power carried by each member separately along with past history, that's all. It's not that I feel an intelligent write-up couldn't yield an Avengers victory, but it had better be a good one, that's all.

And I don't think the League has as huge an advantage as you say.

[KaptainKrypton]

We could debate this all day long, which would be fun. I'm probably not going to convince you anymore than you'd convince me. It's a pity we're not allowed to help edit what's been done in print. The Marvel/DC fiasco certainly comes to mind. Don't even get me started on Amalgam.:)

[Lord Melo]

I find it interesting that everyone seems to think that Caps would take Bats so easily as he's x2 speed, strength, etc.
If we're talking straight hand to hand, then yeh, Caps probably takes it.
But seriously, since when has Bats been the type to stand there and go toe to toe with suped up enemies? He has a huge array of tricks up his sleeve for dealing with guys that are above the normal strength of humans.
And what you CAN guarantee is that Caps hasn't seen hardly any of the tricks that Bats would throw his way.

A round shield and a stiff punch isn't going to make Bats shake at all. lol..

As for the whole match up: JLA all the way. I read the Avengers for years, but against the JLA (hell, even Supes, Flash & Bats alone) Cap and crew would get all smacked to doody. And if Supes is pissed for some reason (Thor macked on Lois), and is moving at full speed with eyes blazing, forget about it.

[Lord Melo]

Just re-read rosters. I'd say you'd have to go with this lineup for a decent fight:

Partial JLA:
Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
The Flash

Avengers:
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision
ADD Fantastic Four as cannon fodder
ADD core X-Men as distraction (Without Phoenix this is still a bloodbath. With Phoenix JLA is hurting).


Then you'd have a decent fight.
But bring along Supergirl or Captain Atom, game seriously over.

[The Question]

I find it interesting that everyone seems to think that Caps would take Bats so easily as he's x2 speed, strength, etc.
If we're talking straight hand to hand, then yeh, Caps probably takes it.
But seriously, since when has Bats been the type to stand there and go toe to toe with suped up enemies? He has a huge array of tricks up his sleeve for dealing with guys that are above the normal strength of humans.
And what you CAN guarantee is that Caps hasn't seen hardly any of the tricks that Bats would throw his way.

A round shield and a stiff punch isn't going to make Bats shake at all. lol..

Yeah. But Cap isn't retarded, either. He's got just as muich experiance as Batman, and is probably just as smart, if not moreso.

As for the whole match up: JLA all the way. I read the Avengers for years, but against the JLA (hell, even Supes, Flash & Bats alone) Cap and crew would get all smacked to doody. And if Supes is pissed for some reason (Thor macked on Lois), and is moving at full speed with eyes blazing, forget about it.


Okay. If it were Superman, Batman, and The Flash by themselves, Batman would be taken wout pretty quick. Superman wouldn't make much a difference, because he'd simply be overpowered by the rest. The only advantage that group would have is The Flash, because his speed dwarfs that of everyone in The Avengers. That's it.

Just re-read rosters. I'd say you'd have to go with this lineup for a decent fight:



Partial JLA:

Superman

Green Lantern

Martian Manhunter

Wonder Woman

Batman

The Flash



Avengers:

Captain America

Thor

Iron Man

Scarlet Witch

Quicksilver

Giant Man

Wasp

Vision

ADD Fantastic Four as cannon fodder

ADD core X-Men as distraction (Without Phoenix this is still a bloodbath. With Phoenix JLA is hurting).





Then you'd have a decent fight.

But bring along Supergirl or Captain Atom, game seriously over.


If you had the FF and X-Men helping, the League would get destroyed. Adding tmem isn't necesairy to make it a decent fight.

[Lord Melo]

Someone needs to re-read Superman/Batman to see how they handle large groups lol.

[Lord Melo]

Yeah. But Cap isn't retarded, either. He's got just as muich experiance as Batman, and is probably just as smart, if not moreso.
Didn't say he was, not sure how the statement is applicable. Batman has hundreds of actual weapons and distractions to choose from.


Okay. If it were Superman, Batman, and The Flash by themselves, Batman would be taken wout pretty quick. Superman wouldn't make much a difference, because he'd simply be overpowered by the rest. The only advantage that group would have is The Flash, because his speed dwarfs that of everyone in The Avengers. That's it.
Superman is almost as fast as the Flash and WAY faster than Quicksilver or anyone else in the Avengers, FF4 or X-Men.
Overpower Supes, lol, that's a good one. You'd think they'd have done that with the Hulk years ago... but no, the Avengers hired out Spiderman to take on the Hulk when it came down to it.

If you had the FF and X-Men helping, the League would get destroyed. Adding tmem isn't necesairy to make it a decent fight.
Naw, don't buy it. If phoenix is there then they have a shot. Without, it's just more cannon fodder. FF4... seriously, they have trouble handling water tube traps that Dr. Doom throws at them.

[The Question]

Someone needs to re-read Superman/Batman to see how they handle large groups lol.

I have read Superman/Batman. And I know that when the fight between them and the president's group was badly written. Superman should not have been able to dispatch with Green Lantern that easily.

Didn't say he was, not sure how the statement is applicable. Batman has hundreds of actual weapons and distractions to choose from.

No he doesn't. Not on him, anyway. His belt only has twelve pouches.

Superman is almost as fast as the Flash and WAY faster than Quicksilver or anyone else in the Avengers, FF4 or X-Men.
Overpower Supes, lol, that's a good one. You'd think they'd have done that with the Hulk years ago... but no, the Avengers hired out Spiderman to take on the Hulk when it came down to it.

1) Superman is not almost as fast as The Flash. At his fastest speed, Superman would still look like a statue to The Flash moving at his fastest speed.

2) The Avengers didn't hire out Spider-Man. They were considering him for membership, and a test of his skills was to see how well he would fare against The Hulk.

3) Thor is on The Hulk's level in terms of strength, and has more than a few other abilities that give him an advantage.

Naw, don't buy it. If phoenix is there then they have a shot. Without, it's just more cannon fodder. FF4... seriously, they have trouble handling water tube traps that Dr. Doom throws at them.

And I'm sure the League would have trouble with Dr. Doom aswell. If the Pheonix is there, then the League would definately get owned. She's much more powerful than the League.

[Lord Melo]

Well, I guess I can't argue with a guy who's posted over 20,000 times!!!
Lol man.

Good show, and JLA ALL THE WAY!

:supes:

[larryfilmmaker]

Does anybody have the picture of Superman catching Thor's hammer? If so, can ya post it?

[Andy C.]

I don't have that one, but I've got one of Supes carrying Thor's hammer and Cap's shield if you're interested.

[larryfilmmaker]

I don't have that one, but I've got one of Supes carrying Thor's hammer and Cap's shield if you're interested.

cool, post it or send it to LarryFilmmaker@aol.com and THANKS. I like both Marvel and DC... but my fav is Supes.

[Fantasyartist]

I was going to post a separate Thor vs Superman article but as the question has been posed by several others, I think I might as well put it here. Superman, for all of his power is basically a MAN(from an alien planet to boot) whereas Thor, of course is a deity( The Hulk of course is stronger than even The Asgardian Avenger, but the Hulk is not a god), and by his own admission a deity's power(even a pagan one's) has to be stronger than any man's-even a "Super"-man's!

Terry

[The Question]

Well, first off, The Hulk is not stronger than Thor. They're equals. And, Thor has been bested by non gods before. That being said, the fact that Superman caught Thor's hammer is ludicrous. That should have at least broken his hand.

[MajinShenron]

Well, first off, The Hulk is not stronger than Thor.

The fact Hulk beat Thor even while Thor has the hammer several times doesn't mean anything, right?

[The Question]

When has that happened? Thor and The Hulk are supposed to be equals in strength.

[Metropolis_Man]

I'm going with the Justice Leauge, but thats mainly because I'm more of DC fan. I don't know too much about the Avengers, it would definately be a good fight though.

[MajinShenron]

When has that happened? Thor and The Hulk are supposed to be equals in strength.

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulk2001-5.jpg

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulk2001-6.jpg

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulk2001-7.jpg


Also, if I remember correctly Hulk beat Thor in the Ultimates. And lastly, I dont like to use animated series for an example but in the Ultimate Avengers movie Hulk beat Thor.

[The Question]

1) Nice red x's.

2) The Ultimates is out of continuity. And The Hulk did not beat Thor in that. Thor laid down some impressive blows, but then got overconfidant and The Hulk swatted him asside.

3) The acrtoon is also not in continuity.

[larryfilmmaker]

1) Nice red x's.

2) The Ultimates is out of continuity. And The Hulk did not beat Thor in that. Thor laid down some impressive blows, but then got overconfidant and The Hulk swatted him asside.

3) The acrtoon is also not in continuity.

See... here is where all "this guy vs. that guy" debates get dumb. There is NO REAL CONTINUITY in comic books... and no set power levels. The Hulk, Thor, Superman, Batman, Daredevil, Spidey, Wolverine, Cyclops, and every other superhero ever have all had various power levels because they change in order to tell different stories. For example... you can't use the Superman who is invulnerable to physical harm in the "Death of Superman" storyline. You can't have the Cyclops who's blasts "blow a hole through a mountain" get beat by Wolverine. You can't have Batman beat Superman if Superman is going full out and not giving Bats a second to even think about moving before he's dead. Power levels do not exist in comics. They are altered in order to tell different kinds of stories. Characters are great because of who they are and what they represent, not because they are a 9 on the power scale or a "class 100" or whatever that means.

[The Question]

See... here is where all "this guy vs. that guy" debates get dumb. There is NO REAL CONTINUITY in comic books...

Yes there is.

and no set power levels.

Yes there are.

The Hulk, Thor, Superman, Batman, Daredevil, Spidey, Wolverine, Cyclops, and every other superhero ever have all had various power levels because they change in order to tell different stories.

Which is what I call "lazy writing."

For example... you can't use the Superman who is invulnerable to physical harm in the "Death of Superman" storyline.

Superman had already been severely powered down from Pre Crisis levels before that storyline. He wasn't some infalible god at that point. Besides, all it takes to kill some one who is "invulnerable to physical harm" is more physical harm than he's faced as of yet. Everyone and everything has a breaking point.

You can't have the Cyclops who's blasts "blow a hole through a mountain" get beat by Wolverine.

I don't think Cyclopse's blasts were ever described to be able to blow a whole in a mountain anywhere outside of the movie. And I don't think Wolverine's beaten him, either.

You can't have Batman beat Superman if Superman is going full out and not giving Bats a second to even think about moving before he's dead.

Batman's never beaten Superman when Supes was going all out. The only time Batman beat Superman was in Hush. And there, Superman was fighting off mind control, and thus not fighting anywhere near his peak capacity, and Batman didn't so much win as "barely survive until he could snap Superman out of it."

Power levels do not exist in comics.

Yes they do.

They are altered in order to tell different kinds of stories.

Which is bad writing.

Characters are great because of who they are and what they represent, not because they are a 9 on the power scale or a "class 100" or whatever that means.

Their power levels have nothing to do with how good a character they are. The Question is one of my favorite characters, and I know Captain America would kick his ass all over creation. But if a character does have power levels, you have to write them in those power levels. Otherwise, it's just damned lazy.

[larryfilmmaker]

in the Superman/Batman books (the new ones) Superman carries Darkseid from the Kent farm to the sun in about 2 seconds. I bet you can find about 8 billion comics of the current "continuity" that don't have him anywhere near that fast. Changing levels for story telling isn't lazy writing... you put the character where you as a writer see him or her. For example, some people would have Supes as a character who is equal to a GL, Thor, etc... while other writers set him at different levels to tell their stories. For example...
(quoted)
In an interview with Joe Casey on Alvaro's ComicBoards, he stated that Superman under his penmanship could re-arrange the Solar System and tear a star apart. "I've always seen Superman as this completely over-the-top, fantastic character who has *no* limits whatsoever," said Casey. In Superman's probe-busting mode, "Superman is unbeatable."
(quoted)

Now, there are plenty of writers who don't see Superman as unbeatable no matter what. The Death of Superman certainly didn't see him that way... or maybe they did, as he was resurrected and defeated Doomsday in the long run. Frank Miller agreed with Casey originally, but his final draft of DKR was different from the original and had Supes beaten by Batman, Robin, and Green Arrow. Now I know that's "out of continuity" but it all depends on where people see the characters. It's not power levels that are important at all... it's the character and how you use him or her to tell the story. Sometimes Spidey can beat up Venom. Sometimes he can't. Sometimes the Juggernaut is unstoppable. Sometimes Hulk stops him. Whatever story somebody wants to tell is more important than set power levels. With as many "current continuity" books as there are out there, it's impossible to say there really is any continuity because they contradict each other so much. But ya know what... that doesn't matter at all because story telling is by far more important than power levels and stats. I'm a huge fan of a lot of different characters and the power levels mean nothing to me. If you make Superman a complete wimp, I think that sucks because his character revolves around him being the top dog. If you make Wolverine team captain and a gentleman, that betrays his character... not giving him a slower or faster healing factor. I do think that if there had to be set power levels, it would fit in the Marvel Universe but probably never in DC. DC is it's own mythology and mythologies have numerous interpretations of each character.

[The Question]

in the Superman/Batman books (the new ones) Superman carries Darkseid from the Kent farm to the sun in about 2 seconds. I bet you can find about 8 billion comics of the current "continuity" that don't have him anywhere near that fast.

Which is one of the many problems I had with that story arc.

Changing levels for story telling isn't lazy writing... you put the character where you as a writer see him or her.

Yes, it is lazy writing. These characters have established power levels. You don;t follow them, you're just being lazy about it.

For example, some people would have Supes as a character who is equal to a GL, Thor, etc... while other writers set him at different levels to tell their stories. For example...
(quoted)
In an interview with Joe Casey on Alvaro's ComicBoards, he stated that Superman under his penmanship could re-arrange the Solar System and tear a star apart. "I've always seen Superman as this completely over-the-top, fantastic character who has *no* limits whatsoever," said Casey. In Superman's probe-busting mode, "Superman is unbeatable."
(quoted)

And if anyone wrote Superman like that, I would be quite pissed. Not only because it's completely ridiculous, but because it flies in the face of his established power levels.

Now, there are plenty of writers who don't see Superman as unbeatable no matter what. The Death of Superman certainly didn't see him that way... or maybe they did, as he was resurrected and defeated Doomsday in the long run.

Superman being resurected didn;t come from his powers, but from outside influence. And Doomsday's been completely wussified by DC as of late. Which pisses me off, because his established power levels say he should be one of the most powerful beings in DC shy of the cosmics and the mystics.

Frank Miller agreed with Casey originally, but his final draft of DKR was different from the original and had Supes beaten by Batman, Robin, and Green Arrow. Now I know that's "out of continuity" but it all depends on where people see the characters. It's not power levels that are important at all... it's the character and how you use him or her to tell the story.

But to completely ignore the power levels is lazy writing. It shows a lack of respect for the continuity.

Sometimes Spidey can beat up Venom. Sometimes he can't.

I've always thought they were very close to each other in terms of power, so it goes back and forth.

Sometimes the Juggernaut is unstoppable. Sometimes Hulk stops him.

That's not fluctuating power levels. The Hulk is just close enough to The Juggernaut in terms of power to be able to do that. "The Unstoppable Juggernaut" isn;t meant to be taken literally.

Whatever story somebody wants to tell is more important than set power levels.

No, it's not. If a writer can't respect the continuity while writing a story, then that story should be out of continuity.

With as many "current continuity" books as there are out there, it's impossible to say there really is any continuity because they contradict each other so much.

No, it isn't. There is a continuity. Sure, there are contradictions. But you know what? Back in the day, when there was a contradiction, the reader would mail the comic company about it. You know what would happen? The writers would try to fix it. I miss those days.

But ya know what... that doesn't matter at all because story telling is by far more important than power levels and stats.

But there is a continuity. If you can;t respect it, then the story sure as hell beter be out of continuity. Otherwise, it's just lazy writing.

I'm a huge fan of a lot of different characters and the power levels mean nothing to me. If you make Superman a complete wimp, I think that sucks because his character revolves around him being the top dog. If you make Wolverine team captain and a gentleman, that betrays his character... not giving him a slower or faster healing factor. I do think that if there had to be set power levels, it would fit in the Marvel Universe but probably never in DC. DC is it's own mythology and mythologies have numerous interpretations of each character.

That's not an excuse. DC, like Marvel, has a continuity. It has set power levels and personalities and a history. If a writer comes along and decides that he wants Superman to sneeze and cause a galaxy to be torn apart because of it, even when Superman's pre set power levels say that should not happen, you know what? That is lazy writing. The writer can't respect the continuity. Now, if the story were out of continuity, that;s fine. But if you have a continuity, you sure as hell better respect it.

[larryfilmmaker]

Well, with hundreds of writers over the last 70 years, it's hard to say which guy has the right to establish a character's power level for everybody else to follow. "How many feet can Spider-Man jump approximately? Oh, I had him jump 30 but here on this trading card it says only 20 so I guess Spider-Man has to fail, fall into the canyon, and die. It doesn't make sense, but hell... I stuck to the continuity." The current "continuity" in any comic book series contradicts itself... so how do we know which comic book is loyal and which is wrong? I stand by saying that debating power levels is silly and that character and story stand above all else. It's not lazy, it's just a different way of doing things. Whether in fantasy superhero land, or the real world, people are allowed to disagree and it doesn't make them lazy. I say Superman uses Thor's hammer to wipe his ass, some writers disagree. Who's right? Neither. Who's wrong? Neither... so long as the story does both of them justice as characters.

[The Question]

Well, with hundreds of writers over the last 70 years, it's hard to say which guy has the right to establish a character's power level for everybody else to follow. "How many feet can Spider-Man jump approximately? Oh, I had him jump 30 but here on this trading card it says only 20 so I guess Spider-Man has to fail, fall into the canyon, and die. It doesn't make sense, but hell... I stuck to the continuity."

You do realize that this doesn;t have to happen at all, right? The writer can simply write the story to acomidate the character's pre set abilities.

The current "continuity" in any comic book series contradicts itself...

Not all the time. When that does happen, it's the fault of lazy writers.

so how do we know which comic book is loyal and which is wrong? I stand by saying that debating power levels is silly and that character and story stand above all else.

That's true. Story is important. But if you are working within a continuity, you have to follow that continuity. Otherwise, don't write the story in continuity.

It's not lazy, it's just a different way of doing things.

And that way of doing things is lazy. Or, if they're not being lazy, they;re just disrespectful to the continuity.

Whether in fantasy superhero land, or the real world, people are allowed to disagree and it doesn't make them lazy.

If you can't take the effort to write the characters based on the continuity set before you, you are just being damned lazy about it.

I say Superman uses Thor's hammer to wipe his ass, some writers disagree. Who's right? Neither. Who's wrong? Neither... so long as the story does both of them justice as characters.

No. If the continuity says that characters are capable of specific things, then characters are capable of specific things. If you don;t follow that, don't write the story in continuity. Otherwise, you;re just being a lazy *******.

[MSatterwhite]

I doubt that in a battle situation, Batman would be calmly "analyzing their oponents." In a fight like that, he'd be forced to make stuff up on the fly. And also, remember, The Avengers are not idiots, and they are capable of tactical thinking themselves (hell, Cap is probably just as smart as Batman is). Wanda and Thor, pooling theri powers, could scatter the League apart. And, like I said, The Vision would atempt to take out their heavy hitters by doing what I described. It could easily go either way.

I think everyone is ignoring how fast Superman is. Why, in heaven's name, would Superman sit still for the Vision to fall on him, and a fraction of a second warning would be enough time for him not to be there (and remember - he can hear the massive object falling - no way he could be surprised). That weapon could be turned against the Vision very easily. The vision starts his fall, Superman flies above him, and barrels down at full speed to connect as the vision hits the (now vacant) ground. Goodbye android. Of course, the Vision is smart enought to know this could happen so probably wouldn't even attempt it.

Overall, the telepathic link would probably turn the tide

[The Question]

Superman smacks Vision into the ground, he's still hit by the shockwave. Not the brunt of the hit, but it'd hurt. And hell, the first time the Vision tried this was on an oponent with a good deal of super speed. It worked because said oponent was distracted at the time. If Superman's busy trading blows with Thor, he's going to be distracted.

[MSatterwhite]

Just re-read rosters. I'd say you'd have to go with this lineup for a decent fight:

Partial JLA:
Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
The Flash

Avengers:
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision
ADD Fantastic Four as cannon fodder
ADD core X-Men as distraction (Without Phoenix this is still a bloodbath. With Phoenix JLA is hurting).


Then you'd have a decent fight.
But bring along Supergirl or Captain Atom, game seriously over.

Let the League add Dr. Fate and / or Zatanna as well. The League wouldn't be hurting at all.

[MSatterwhite]

Superman smacks Vision into the ground, he's still hit by the shockwave. Not the brunt of the hit, but it'd hurt. And hell, the first time the Vision tried this was on an oponent with a good deal of super speed. It worked because said oponent was distracted at the time. If Superman's busy trading blows with Thor, he's going to be distracted.

Let's see: Superman can hear the object falling and a fraction of a second warning would be enought for him not to be there. Thor isn't near that fast. Offhand, the odd are that the ploy would only success in taking out Thor (which it would definitely do). Shock wave: sure, Aside from Superman and Flash (both of whom could clear the area), the Vision probably just took out both the JLA and Avengers - or at least the ones that Superman and Flash couldn't get transported out of the way. A weapon that takes out your team isn't a very good weapon.

[saint sinner x]

Thor is stronger than superman and faster than superman and Thor is trained in the arts of war, being a superbly skilled warrior, highly proficient in hand-to-hand combat, swordsmanship, and hammer throwing. Also for those of you who thinks superman can take him down just have this in mind that thor As the son of Odin and Gaea, Thor's strength, endurance and resistance to injury are greater than the vast majority of his superhuman race. He is extremely long-lived (though not completely immune to aging), immune to conventional disease, and highly resistant to injury. His flesh and bones are several times denser than a human's.
As Lord of Asgard, Thor possesses the Odinforce, which enables him to tap into the near-infinite resources of cosmic and mystical, enhancing all of his abilities. With the vast magical power of the Odinforce, Thor was able to even dent Captain America’s shield with Mjolnir. That's right he was able to dent Captain America's so called undestructable shield. I also forgot to mention that he moves at the speed of light and can conjure thunderbolts and remember superman is not as fast as the speed of light just in case some of you don't know how fast is speed of light well speed of light is about 180,000 miles per second that means if i'm in new york and your in pennsylvania i can get to you in 1second.

[The Question]

Let's see: Superman can hear the object falling and a fraction of a second warning would be enought for him not to be there. Thor isn't near that fast. Offhand, the odd are that the ploy would only success in taking out Thor (which it would definitely do). Shock wave: sure, Aside from Superman and Flash (both of whom could clear the area), the Vision probably just took out both the JLA and Avengers - or at least the ones that Superman and Flash couldn't get transported out of the way. A weapon that takes out your team isn't a very good weapon.


The thing is, Superman isn't infalible. He's been hit by things coming right at him alot. He wouldn't be focusing on The Vision during the entire fight, and would probably be distracted by everything else that was going on.

[hippie_hunter]

Justice League of America (assumed)
Superman (Clark Kent/Kal-El)
Batman (Bruce Wayne)
Wonder Woman (Diana)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)
Black Canary (Dinah Lance)
Booster Gold (Michael Carter)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz)
Firestorm (Jason Rusch)
Zatanna Zatara
Cyborg (Victor Stone)

Avengers
Captain America (Steve Rodgers)
Iron Man (Tony Stark)
Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
Spider-Woman (Jessica Jones)
Luke Cage/Power Man
Wolverine (James Howlett/Logan)
Sentry (Robert Reynolds)
Ronin/Echo (Maya Lopez)

The Justice League wins by a long shot :o

[newmexneon]

Thor is stronger than superman and faster than superman and Thor is trained in the arts of war, being a superbly skilled warrior, highly proficient in hand-to-hand combat, swordsmanship, and hammer throwing. Also for those of you who thinks superman can take him down just have this in mind that thor As the son of Odin and Gaea, Thor's strength, endurance and resistance to injury are greater than the vast majority of his superhuman race. He is extremely long-lived (though not completely immune to aging), immune to conventional disease, and highly resistant to injury. His flesh and bones are several times denser than a human's.
As Lord of Asgard, Thor possesses the Odinforce, which enables him to tap into the near-infinite resources of cosmic and mystical, enhancing all of his abilities. With the vast magical power of the Odinforce, Thor was able to even dent Captain America’s shield with Mjolnir. That's right he was able to dent Captain America's so called undestructable shield. I also forgot to mention that he moves at the speed of light and can conjure thunderbolts and remember superman is not as fast as the speed of light just in case some of you don't know how fast is speed of light well speed of light is about 180,000 miles per second that means if i'm in new york and your in pennsylvania i can get to you in 1second.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[saint sinner x]

What did i pist you off because deep down you know i'm right? if you think that superman can take out thor then you obviously do not read thor comics. That's whats wrong with you superman fanboys outthere you guys think he's like some type of god when he has been defeated over and over again, A god in my book would be galactus, green lantern, thanos, silver surfer, pheonix etc.... Not superman.

[larryfilmmaker]

What did i pist you off because deep down you know i'm right? if you think that superman can take out thor then you obviously do not read thor comics. That's whats wrong with you superman fanboys outthere you guys think he's like some type of god when he has been defeated over and over again, A god in my book would be galactus, green lantern, thanos, silver surfer, pheonix etc.... Not superman.


boy there sure are a lot of Gods out there who'd get their asses kicked by Supes :0)

[JTStarkiller]

I'm a DC person, so I'm a little biased. I'd have to go with the Justice league. Although I did just see the Ultimate Avengers movie, and it was pretty entertaining. But nothing beats JL/JLU.

If this is a vs. thread about who would win in a fight, I have no idea.

[dlo6215]

hey guys, i love these debate threads and i was wondering where everyone gets their info. Ex. superman is 2X as strong as whoever. Is there a site or something where i can find this stuff w/o reading every issue of every series ever? thanks.

[Toby_Temple]

One of Superman's weakness is mystical powers or magic. Thor's hammer, Mjolnir, is of mystical origins and has mystical powers. Thor can also conjure the mystical power known as the godforce. I don't see how Superman who can be killed by mystical attacks can take a mystically powered being.

[Sloth7d]

If you count the entire Avengers reserves and Jla reserves we will have an interesting fight. The match ups may look something like this
Captain America vs Batman
Superman vs Sentry
Thor vs Captain Marvel
Wonder woman vs Warbird
Spiderman vs Booster gold lol
Wolverine vs Hawk man
Aquaman vs wonder man
Green lantern vs Ironman
super girl vs she hulk
Hawk girl vs falcon
Edit:(Steel vs Beast)
Martian manhunter vs Vision
Scarlett witch vs Zantana
Quick silver vs The flash
Green arrow vs Hawk eye
and Hulk vs Plastic man lol but it could go eiter way if you consider it
Black panther vs Blue beetle
Hank pym vs Atom
Luke cage vs Question mark
Spiderwoman vs Canary
Its a hard debate but.....
With this in mind I'd have to go with the Avengers, because their team is on the verge of omnipotence. Like they may even get a new member with that Michael guy.

[Sloth7d]

If you count the entire Avengers reserves and Jla reserves we will have an interesting fight. The match ups may look something like this
Oh and
Captain America vs Batman= draw
Superman vs Sentry=superman
Thor vs Captain Marvel=Thor
Wonder woman vs Warbird=Wonderwoman,maybe....its 50/50
Spiderman vs Booster gold lol=spiderman ofcourse
Wolverine vs Hawk man=wolverine
Aquaman vs wonder man=wonderman
Green lantern vs Ironman=Ironman
super girl vs she hulk=she hulk
Hawk girl vs falcon=hawk girl
Steel vs Wonderman=didn't realize I double match up'd wonderman
Martian manhunter vs Vision=draw
Scarlett witch vs Zantana=scarlett witch
Quick silver vs The flash=flash hands down
Green arrow vs Hawk eye=Hawk eye
and Hulk vs Plastic man lol but it could go eiter way if you consider it=Hulk
Black panther vs Blue beetle=Black panther
Hank pym vs Atom=draw
Luke cage vs Question mark=undecided
Spiderwoman vs Canary=spider woman
Its a hard debate but.....
With this in mind I'd have to go with the Avengers, because their team is on the verge of omnipotence. Like they may even get a new member with that Michael guy.
Just my opinion.b

[Sloth7d]

And steel vs Beast=Beast the victor. All he'd have to do is start tearing the suit apart and with his brains he should be able to tell which component to destroy first.

[Symbiote Hulk]

Justice League of America (assumed)
Superman (Clark Kent/Kal-El)
Batman (Bruce Wayne)
Wonder Woman (Diana)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)
Black Canary (Dinah Lance)
Booster Gold (Michael Carter)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz)
Firestorm (Jason Rusch)
Zatanna Zatara
Cyborg (Victor Stone)

Avengers
Captain America (Steve Rodgers)
Iron Man (Tony Stark)
Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
Spider-Woman (Jessica Jones)
Luke Cage/Power Man
Wolverine (James Howlett/Logan)
Sentry (Robert Reynolds)
Ronin/Echo (Maya Lopez)

The Justice League wins by a long shot :o

Of course they do if avengers have those guys but if they have the same characters from the Ultimate Avengers 2, Avengers>JLA
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/9194/untitledwd8.png

[Sloth7d]

The New Avengers lose easily, but the new Avengers,incliding reservist members, is another story.

[elvislennon2005]

Ok, here is my thoughts. For people thinks that Batman will be taken out of the fight because he has no powers what so ever is wrong. Batman might not really be in the fight. He will find the weakness for the Avengers and you it against them. That is how Batman is and always have been. He will know that he can't go against them because he lacks the power to do so. So I say he would be behind the lines trying to find the Avengers weakness.
Sloth7d about you opinion of Supergirl getting beat up by She Hulk. Which Supergirl are you talking about? Their is five different ones and one is the blood cousin to Superman meaning she has the same powers as he does. So that might be a draw too.
Some says that Wonder Woman is be beating up by Thor or whoever. Well, she held her own against Superman for God's sake. Do you believe yourself when you said that? I think she would be winner of whoever.
larryfilmmaker that guy doens't know what he is talking about having Superman doing that stuff like ripping apart a star or rearrangin the Solar System. That guy needs to know that if you move a planet then something will hapen to that planet even it is move a little bit. Superman is strong and maybe can move a moon like he did in Superman IV but Earth would of been destroy if he move it out of the orbit.
The Question Batman just didn't beat Superman in just on in Hush but two other times and those times are before 1986 during the pre crisis Superman. Batman won hands down because he cheated but he won.
I think would last against anyone because he can make a vortex and make the person pass out if needed. Martian Manhunter would win over Vision.
But JLA is to strong in each of their own way for the Avengers. Avengers would lose big time.

[Sloth7d]

Ok, here is my thoughts. For people thinks that Batman will be taken out of the fight because he has no powers what so ever is wrong. Batman might not really be in the fight. He will find the weakness for the Avengers and you it against them. That is how Batman is and always have been. He will know that he can't go against them because he lacks the power to do so. So I say he would be behind the lines trying to find the Avengers weakness.
And same goes for spiderman.
Sloth7d about you opinion of Supergirl getting beat up by She Hulk. Which Supergirl are you talking about? Their is five different ones and one is the blood cousin to Superman meaning she has the same powers as he does. So that might be a draw too.
Agreeable, but it depends on how mad she-hulk gets.
Some says that Wonder Woman is be beating up by Thor or whoever. Well, she held her own against Superman for God's sake.
Do you believe yourself when you said that? I think she would be winner of whoever.
Superman=holding back.
Thor beat superman in one title, but lost in another.
So odds are Thor would seriously own her if he could go back and forth winning against Supes.
larryfilmmaker that guy doens't know what he is talking about having Superman doing that stuff like ripping apart a star or rearrangin the Solar System. That guy needs to know that if you move a planet then something will hapen to that planet even it is move a little bit. Superman is strong and maybe can move a moon like he did in Superman IV but Earth would of been destroy if he move it out of the orbit.
Yeah, but logic doesn't always aply. If it did, then scientificly everytime Supes caught a person falling from several ft, they would die from impact.
The Question Batman just didn't beat Superman in just on in Hush but two other times and those times are before 1986 during the pre crisis Superman. Batman won hands down because he cheated but he won.
I think would last against anyone because he can make a vortex and make the person pass out if needed. Martian Manhunter would win over Vision.
But JLA is to strong in each of their own way for the Avengers. Avengers would lose big time
If you think that, then you are seriously underestimating the Avengers.
:up:

[elvislennon2005]

I am not underestimating the Avengers at all. Justice League has more powerful players than Avengers with Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern. If you add Supergirl to it but it still it depends on which one, which I say add the original Supergirl. It doesn't matter how mad She Hulk gets at all. The original Supergirl could stand her own against She Hulk. Spiderman is nothing like Batman. He won't be sitting around without fighting. Batman will and that is really Batman's true power. He will find their weakness and use it against them. Yes, Superman holds back on punches but you need to understand the strength of Superman. If he hits everybody at full force that person who be dead. He didn't hold his punches against the Hulk because he figure out that the more stronger Hulk gets the more savage he gets. During one battle, Superman hit Hulk so hard that those punches could be heard around the world. So was the Hulk punches but Hulk lost still. If you want Superman ripped apart a star and rearranging a Solar System. Tell me how would you defeat such a person at all without using Kryptonite? Yes, you can use magic but Batman might of thought of that ahead of time before the Avengers will use magic.
The power behind the Avengers is not compare to the JLA. They are simply to strong for them. If you add some members of the X-Men then they might have a chance and the key word their is might.
I even ask a friend who like Avengers alot more and has all their comics and I ask him who would win. He even said the sadly the JLA would win hands down. Avengers has more weakness than power. He said that the only key player that the Avengers would have is Thor and that is it. Yes, some more would be considered key players but they have more weakness than power while Thor you have to get that hammer away from him.

[yuppi]

batman would get killed easily
the superman batman comics is a joke man
in like every episode superman is babysitting batman,
i mean who of their enemies that superman cant take out by himself?

JLA VS. Avengers?

hmmmm
im going to go with the avengers cause superman and flash,


PS CAP AMERICA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BATMAN
I LOVE BATMAN BUT LETS BE REAL HERE, CAP IS A SUPER HUMAN, AND HAS TAKEN OUT BAD GUYS STRONGER THEN HIMSELF JUST THE WAY BATMAN HAS.

EASY CAP VICTORY.

but yeah JLA wins cause supes and flash, i dont like either of them that much , but they have really cheap powers that give them such a huge advantage.

X-men Vs. JLA
now we talking

[Sloth7d]

I am not underestimating the Avengers at all. Justice League has more powerful players than Avengers with Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern.
The Sentry, Warbird,and Ironman easily match tose three.
If you add Supergirl to it but it still it depends on which one, which I say add the original Supergirl. It doesn't matter how mad She Hulk gets at all. The original Supergirl could stand her own against She Hulk.
If SheHulk let her rage consume her like in Avengers dissassembled Super girls going down. If she doesn't I still say it's a fair fight. Especially due to She-hulks healing factor and anger induced strenth. Basically if supergirl doesn't finish it right away shes going to be in trouble.
Spiderman is nothing like Batman. He won't be sitting around without fighting.
No, Ironman has basically made Spidey the brains of the group. Check New Avengers #19. Spidey stays behind to find a weakness on Michael.
Batman will and that is really Batman's true power. He will find their weakness and use it against them. Yes, Superman holds back on punches but you need to understand the strength of Superman. If he hits everybody at full force that person who be dead.
If he faught The Sentry it would be pretty even. Maybe even a double ko.
He didn't hold his punches against the Hulk because he figure out that the more stronger Hulk gets the more savage he gets. During one battle, Superman hit Hulk so hard that those punches could be heard around the world. So was the Hulk punches but Hulk lost still. If you want Superman ripped apart a star and rearranging a Solar System. Tell me how would you defeat such a person at all without using Kryptonite? Yes, you can use magic but Batman might of thought of that ahead of time before the Avengers will use magic.
Again, Sentry would be an evenly matched opponent.
The power behind the Avengers is not compare to the JLA. They are simply to strong for them. If you add some members of the X-Men then they might have a chance and the key word their is might.
No the Avengers by themselves is good enough.
I even ask a friend who like Avengers alot more and has all their comics and I ask him who would win. He even said the sadly the JLA would win hands down. Avengers has more weakness than power. He said that the only key player that the Avengers would have is Thor and that is it. Yes, some more would be considered key players but they have more weakness than power while Thor you have to get that hammer away from him.
Again I'll say you are seriously underestimating the Avengers. If you only new how strong some of them really were you might reconsider.

[elvislennon2005]

I know how strong they are. I collect their comics too. I read both Marvel and DC. The Avengers are not strong compare to the JL. All members of the Justice League got most of their powers naturally. Unlike the Avengers would got their powers in one way or another. I think you are underestimating the power of the Justice League.
They fought alot of those already and won more times than the Avengers has. Don't count that one that happen a few years ago because that story line was just put together. Superman knocking down the Hulk in about five punches or less. That won't happen. It will be a much bigger battle. Superman will knock down the Hulk but not the way that comic told it.

[Symbiote Hulk]

I know how strong they are. I collect their comics too. I read both Marvel and DC. The Avengers are not strong compare to the JL. All members of the Justice League got most of their powers naturally. Unlike the Avengers would got their powers in one way or another. I think you are underestimating the power of the Justice League.
They fought alot of those already and won more times than the Avengers has. Don't count that one that happen a few years ago because that story line was just put together. Superman knocking down the Hulk in about five punches or less. That won't happen. It will be a much bigger battle. Superman will knock down the Hulk but not the way that comic told it.
Arguable

I believe that it's who has the better tactics that will win:
-Hulk has beaten the Avengers. The Avengers are slightly weaker or stronger to the JL.
-Superman has to put up quite a fight if he were against one of the other JL members (According to some of the Epidodes from The new animated JL series)
-If Hulk would go against all of the JL members (And keep Superman away from him), Hulk would probably beat the JL members while the rest of the Avengers go after Superman. The Avengers would win in that case.

But if it would be one on one, JL member VS Avenger member, It might be otherwise...

[elvislennon2005]

"-Superman has to put up quite a fight if he were against one of the other JL members (According to some of the Epidodes from The new animated JL series)
-If Hulk would go against all of the JL members (And keep Superman away from him), Hulk would probably beat the JL members while the rest of the Avengers go after Superman. The Avengers would win in that case."


That Superman is a little weaker on the JL series than the comic version of Superman. Out of the other members of the JL Hulk would have problems with Wonder Woman. According to the JL series, WW is the daughter of the one who guards the gates of Hell. As for in the comics I can't say because I don't have many of her comics and I been trying to find her info. But that is his only problem because she has strength that is match to Superman's. Martian Manhunter would give surprise attacks on the Hulk. Flash could run really fash to cause a vortex and suck the oxygen away from the Hulk do Hulk would pass out but Flash has to say over arms length to do that so Hulk won't hit him.
Superman Vs the rest of the Avengers....hmmm.....That might be a fair fight and I say after a long battle with them, Superman would still win. He would finally realize the only way to stop them by themselves is hit with full force meaning not pulling punches. If he pull his punches he would kill them so we don't want that. Also you won't be able to have a surprise attack on Superman because of his super hearing. That is the draw back the Avengers have. If that would happen I say that the last member that Superman would keep facing is Thor. All the rest would fall in time but Thor is another story because of that hammer. But if Superman could use his head he could defeat him to. But he would have to be like Batman, find his weakness and use it against him without killing him.

[Toby_Temple]

:eek: Superman alone against the the entire Avengers? That's suicide! Thor alone can handle him. Sentry can take him alone as well.

:eek: Superman knocking the Hulk out in a long fight? Impossible! Superman needs to give his all early on to prevent Hulk from getting stronger and stronger. If he fails to understand this, he'll lose.

As for JLA vs Avengers, I think the team who will win is the one with the best battle strategy.

[Sloth7d]

^exactly

[Sloth7d]

If you count the entire Avengers reserves and Jla reserves we will have an interesting fight. The match ups may look something like this
Captain America vs Batman
Superman vs Sentry
Thor vs Captain Marvel
Wonder woman vs Warbird
Spiderman vs Booster gold lol
Wolverine vs Hawk man
Aquaman vs wonder man
Green lantern vs Ironman
super girl vs she hulk
Hawk girl vs falcon
Edit:(Steel vs Beast)
Martian manhunter vs Vision
Scarlett witch vs Zantana
Quick silver vs The flash
Green arrow vs Hawk eye
and Hulk vs Plastic man lol but it could go eiter way if you consider it
Black panther vs Blue beetle
Hank pym vs Atom
Luke cage vs Question mark
Spiderwoman vs Canary
Its a hard debate but.....
With this in mind I'd have to go with the Avengers, because their team is on the verge of omnipotence. Like they may even get a new member with that Michael guy.
Just to bring back up what I think the one on one fights would look like.

[punishermax]

If you count the entire Avengers reserves and Jla reserves we will have an interesting fight. The match ups may look something like this
Captain America vs Batman.....Cap
Superman vs Sentry......Draw
Thor vs Captain Marvel......Thor
Wonder woman vs Warbird.......Wonder Woman
Spiderman vs Booster gold lol.......Spidey
Wolverine vs Hawk man........Hawkman (People underestimate him)
Aquaman vs wonder man.........Aquaman
Green lantern vs Ironman.........GL (If anyone picks IM, they no nothing of GL)
super girl vs she hulk..........Supergirl
Hawk girl vs falcon..........Draw
Edit:(Steel vs Beast)............Steel
Martian manhunter vs Vision..........Manhunter
Scarlett witch vs Zantana...............Zatanna
Quick silver vs The flash.............Flash (Flash alone could take out most of the Avengers before they had time to inahle)
Green arrow vs Hawk eye.............Draw
and Hulk vs Plastic man................I don't really know.
Black panther vs Blue beetle............Panther
Hank pym vs Atom.............Draw
Luke cage vs Question mark............Draw
Spiderwoman vs Canary..................Canary
Its a hard debate but.....


I would go with the Avengers for only a couple of reason: Flash, Manhunter.

Flash could literally hit all of the Avengers with the Infinite Mass Punch before they could even think of reacting. And Manhunter is one of the most dangerous telepaths in the DC universe, not to mention: density control, heat vision, shapshifting, super strength and speed, and telekinesis.

[Sloth7d]

Are people underestimating Vision?
Do they not remember when he first faught the Avengers as a servant of Ultron and nearly beat them?

[Parker]

There is no way on God's green earth that Captain America could take Batman. The only guy in the Marvel ranks capable of even standing a chance at pulling off a draw with Batman is Black Panther.

[The Question]

Why? Cap is a highly skilled hand to hand combatant and tactitian, and is physically supirior to Batman in every way.

[Sloth7d]

Cap vs batman would be a pretty even fight.
I don't see any one sidedness to it.

[Parker]

Why? Cap is a highly skilled hand to hand combatant and tactitian, and is physically supirior to Batman in every way.

Captain America beats Batman in terms of leadership and battle tactics, but Bruce Wayne has had far more rigorous training in the martial-arts than Steve Rogers, by far. So in terms of leading a team of super-heroes, Cap takes the gold, sure. But if you're talking about a on-on-one bout, Batman wins indisputably. And even though Cap gets his perfect physique from the super soldier serum, Batman has honed his body to the peak of human perfection through conventional means. I might give Captain America the strength superiority, but he isn't half as intelligent or cunning as Batman, nor has he spent as much time perfecting his martial-arts.

[Sloth7d]

To say that, one must know very little on Captain America,
who was trained by the military.
Trained by shield.
Trained with the avengers
And practices his martial arts on a regular basis.
Yes, Batman does still know many more fighting techniques despite this, but the enhanced strenth and physique balances that out.
It would be an even fight.

[The Question]

Captain America beats Batman in terms of leadership and battle tactics, but Bruce Wayne has had far more rigorous training in the martial-arts than Steve Rogers, by far. So in terms of leading a team of super-heroes, Cap takes the gold, sure. But if you're talking about a on-on-one bout, Batman wins indisputably. And even though Cap gets his perfect physique from the super soldier serum, Batman has honed his body to the peak of human perfection through conventional means. I might give Captain America the strength superiority, but he isn't half as intelligent or cunning as Batman, nor has he spent as much time perfecting his martial-arts.

Captain America trains regularly, and is a very highly skilled hand to hand combatant. Cap is also highly inteligent, and I don't see why Batman is automatically moreso.

To say that, one must know very little on Captain America,

who was trained by the military.

Trained by shield.

Trained with the avengers

And practices his martial arts on a regular basis.

Yes, Batman does still know many more fighting techniques despite this, but the enhanced strenth and physique balances that out.

It would be an even fight.

Also, I must add: Knowing more techniques and fighting styles does not make you a better fighter. It just means you're very anal retentive about learning everything you can. Experience and a quick mind are what wins fights, not moves.

[Parker]

Captain America trains regularly, and is a very highly skilled hand to hand combatant. Cap is also highly inteligent, and I don't see why Batman is automatically moreso. Also, I must add: Knowing more techniques and fighting styles does not make you a better fighter. It just means you're very anal retentive about learning everything you can. Experience and a quick mind are what wins fights, not moves.

I guess it comes down to a matter of opinion about who would defeat who, but you can't possibly argue the intellect or martial-arts skills of Captain America vs Batamn, it's just so one-sided. Bruce Wayne spent 12 years of his life mastering over 100 different martial-arts styles. That makes for an unpredictably overwhelming opponent in hand-to-hand combat.

As far as smarts go, Batman is one of the most keen minds on the face of the planet. This is a guy who could solve a crime committed in Cleveland with a q-tip from a cabinet in Honolulu. The whole super-genius bit is part of his character, bats are highly intelligent for their brain size and animal species. Only men like Reed Richards, Bruce Banner or Hank Pym are up in that class of genius. Cap isn't even in the same league.

[The Question]

I guess it comes down to a matter of opinion about who would defeat who, but you can't possibly argue the intellect or martial-arts skills of Captain America vs Batamn, it's just so one-sided. Bruce Wayne spent 12 years of his life mastering over 100 different martial-arts styles. That makes for an unpredictably overwhelming opponent in hand-to-hand combat.

Captain America spent several months in combat training, almost four years in combat as the government's top special operative in one of the largest wars in the history of the world, and has divided his time in the last ten or so years between coordinating atacks against giant monsters, alien dictators, and meglomaniacle terrorists with The Avengers and serving as one of the world's top special operatives against The Red Skull, Zemo, AIM, HYDRA, and other such threats with the U.S. government and S.H.E.I.L.D. Batman doesn't have an overwhelming advantage over Cap. Also, as I said, the number of styles you know doesn't make you a better fighter. It just means you're very anal retentive and like to waste training time.

As far as smarts go, Batman is one of the most keen minds on the face of the planet.

Tactically and analytically, yes. As is Cap.

This is a guy who could solve a crime committed in Cleveland with a q-tip from a cabinet in Honolulu.

Gross exageration.

The whole super-genius bit is part of his character, bats are highly intelligent for their brain size and animal species. Only men like Reed Richards, Bruce Banner or Hank Pym are up in that class of genius. Cap isn't even in the same league.

Batman isn't in League with Reed either. At least, not in Reed's feild. And Reed isn't in League with Bruce in his feild. Reed is a scientist. Physics, inventing, those are his areas of expertese. Bruce belongs in the realm of tactical and analytical thinking. They're not comperable. Cap and Batman, however, are, seeing as how they're both highly inteligent tactical and analytical thinkers.

[yuppi]

parker you're a ****ing idiot
i love batman

but dude
hes human he has limits
cap is not human, hes super human

batman is a different type of hero
i hate dc comics cuz sometimes they make him more powerful then he is
dude can not take anyone in the jla or avengers
with out pre constructed no everything about your enemy fight