Question about Emma Frost and the Phoenix

[icemancuckoos]

In the end of the comic Phoenix:Endsong it showed Emma with the fire in her eyes does that mean she could have some powers of the Phoenix?
Since the Phoenix took over her during that book. I still couldn't understand that if Emma hold Phoenix potential powers or not.:)

[Specter313]

That was one of the Cuckoos, not Emma.

[Exploding Boy]

In the end of the comic Phoenix:Endsong it showed Emma with the fire in her eyes does that mean she could have some powers of the Phoenix?
Since the Phoenix took over her during that book. I still couldn't understand that if Emma hold Phoenix potential powers or not.:)

That was a Cuckoo not Emma, hence why there where three other blond girls in the same bed. So I think you are asking if she is capable of using the Phoenix. No. Phoenix was using her and she wasent using it.

[FieryBalrog]

In the end of the comic Phoenix:Endsong it showed Emma with the fire in her eyes does that mean she could have some powers of the Phoenix?
Since the Phoenix took over her during that book. I still couldn't understand that if Emma hold Phoenix potential powers or not.:)

no, she does not, as referenced by dialogue in the book.

[Exploding Boy]

no, she does not, as referenced by dialogue in the book.

Post Nazi!!



:p :D

[FieryBalrog]

Post Nazi!!



:p :D

Thank you, but I prefer the term Your Gentle Jackbooted Post Friend. :marv:

[Chamber_UK]

Post Jews take offence to that!!! lol

[Exile]

When you think about it, there is so much we owe to Seinfeld. =) Terms like "Soup Nazi!" " Master of your domain" "Shrinkage" "High/low talker" and my favorite "yada,yada,yada" all became such often used catch phrases because of that show about "Nothing'.

[Exploding Boy]

Thank you, but I prefer the term Your Gentle Jackbooted Post Friend. :marv:

I'll remember that ;)

[BBraddockLover]

wow this is off topic...lol.....but its funny

[Cryostar1177]

Shouldn't there be a problem with the Phoenix force choosing to inhabit a genetically engineered person? I guess life is life....but it still seems odd.

[masterj]

Genitically engineered? Are you talking about the Cuckoos being part of Weapon X? I thought that was never confirmed or just said to be part of the alternate universe of Here Comes Tomorow.

[Boba_Fett_123]

Well, the implication in Here Comes Tomorrow was that the Cuckoos had been engineered from birth by Weapon Plus (what were they, Weapon Fourteen or something?), long before the divergent timeline caused by the events of Planet X, so HCT's standing as an alternate future has no bearing on the Cuckoos having been genetically engineered.

Weapon Plus makes Cuckoos-->Magneto goes crazy in Planet X-->Off to either Reload or Here Comes Tomorrow, depending on Scott's decision.

EDIT: But then, Morrison made a lot of implications throughout his run, especially in HCT, and left his readers to connect the dots. It's all interpretation, in the end.

[Valechan]

Thing is Bobba Fett, it should discussed if we accept anything in alternate futures as cannon, even if they do happen before the divergent point. I mean, take X-Men the End, it clearly says that Gambit is a clon of Sinister with Cyclops' powers, thus making him the fabled 3rd Summers, and it clearly says that happened long before the divergence point (which I'm guessing it's HOM). But in 616 it's been established that Vulcan is the 3rd Summers... so, is Gambit a clone of Sinister in 616 too? It's the same with these Cuckoos. I for one agree that all events revealed in alternate futures about things that happen before the divergence points should be considered as cannon, but the X-Men The End example makes think if we should.

[OutcryX]

Thing is Bobba Fett, it should discussed if we accept anything in alternate futures as cannon, even if they do happen before the divergent point. I mean, take X-Men the End, it clearly says that Gambit is a clon of Sinister with Cyclops' powers, thus making him the fabled 3rd Summers, and it clearly says that happened long before the divergence point (which I'm guessing it's HOM). But in 616 it's been established that Vulcan is the 3rd Summers... so, is Gambit a clone of Sinister in 616 too? It's the same with these Cuckoos. I for one agree that all events revealed in alternate futures about things that happen before the divergence points should be considered as cannon, but the X-Men The End example makes think if we should.

That whole Gambit is the third brother story was just garbage...How would you..being the clone of someone completely unrelated to my family then given some of my DNA and powers make you my brother? if anything you would be a weird abomination offspring needing to be taken behind the barn and beaten with a shovel......the whole Vulcan is the brother explanation doesn't seem to be too much better...so make room in that shallow grave...

[Valechan]

It's not about wether we like the explanation or not, it's about if it should be considered it as true or not that concerns me.

[masterj]

So would you accept that the Cuckoos are part of Weapon Plus? Personally I dont take anythign in Here Comes Tomorow as truth so I don't see the Cuckoos as being Weapon 14 or whatever. What about the rest of you guys?

[Valechan]

I... am uncertain what to think. If it did happen before the divergence point it should be considered as cannon... but that means we also have to assume the Gambit/Sinister bit is true.

[Exploding Boy]

No. Its an alternate timeline. Its like saying Gambit is the Third Brother based on Xmen the End, like previously stated.

[masterj]

Was it ever stated which Cuckoo it was in Endsong? Mindee, Pheobe or Celeste? I think Celeste would be a good choice, simply for the name.

[Exploding Boy]

What do you mean? Was Weapon Plus ever stated?

[Valechan]

But it happened long before the divergence point, which is the same as the Cuckoos in HCT. If we accept one, then we have to accept the others. Information revealed in alternate futures concerning events that happened before the divergence point, that's what this is all about. Both bits of info were released in alternate futures, but both of them occurred long before the divergence points that created said futures. So, we must ask ourselves if we accept it. Logic mandates we should.

[masterj]

Im confused are you saying that Endsong is a alternate reality? Or is it in regard to the other post? I should stop asking so many questions lol.

[Exploding Boy]

I dont know what to accept. Id rather just wait it out and see who it is.

[Valechan]

I was talking about the other question. And yes, you should stop making so many questions.

[FieryBalrog]

I think things that are revealed in possible futures that are before the "breaking point" (like Sebita said) are usually considered canon because they happen in the mainstream timeline.

So the Cuckoos are Weapon 14. Theres no way they could have become weapon 14 because of Scott's decision (which broke the timeline) so they must have been weapon 14 already.

It makes sense too.

About the Gambit being a clone of Sinister with Scott's DNA, that wouldnt make him a Summers brother, it would just mean he has some Summers DNA in him. So it doesnt contradict Vulcan being the 3rd Summers brother at all. I still think its a dumb idea but its happened so.

[Exploding Boy]

Barlog we need you in the Last Man Standing thread.

[FieryBalrog]

Barlog we need you in the Last Man Standing thread.

We have come.

[Exploding Boy]

And judgement will be served.

[FieryBalrog]

Reprisals will commence.

[Exploding Boy]

Only the true believers will survive.

[Cryostar1177]

Indeed...now, the other question is, was Phoenix: End Song a divergent time line on it's own. It's is most possible that it takes place in a time stream that separated thousands of years before from the mainstream.

Hell, since we bring it up, maybe this is a time stream where they were conceived naturally, not a part of Weapon plus....just throwing more food for thought out there.

[rabidfanboy]

The events of Endsong have been discussed in continuity in the mainstream books so it is not an alternate universe or timeline.

[FieryBalrog]

Endsong is in continuity just like Kitty Pryde's recent miniseries or Colossus's.

[Wolverazio]

What I want to know (and I place before the court) is X-Men: The End an alternate future...or alternate reality?

If it is an alternate future, then yes, Cuckoos as Weapon Plus are to be accepted as much as Gambit being a bastard child of Sinister and Cyclops.

BUT, it is an alternate reality, then one has nothing to do with the other.

So anyone have definitive word on what it is?

EDIT!!::

X-Men: The End is a trilogy of miniseries detailing the last days of the X-Men and their adventures in the future of an alternate universe. It is written by Chris Claremont and drawn by Sean Chen, with Greg Land doing the cover art. The first part of the miniseries is titled Dreamers and Demons, the second Heroes and Martyrs, and the third Men and X-Men.

If you believe Wikipedia (not the most reliable) then no. You can believe the Cuckoos are a product of Weapon Plus and ignore Gambit's connection to Sinister.

[Valechan]

It's an alternate future, it happens in the future and it's a natural extrapolation of the initial Reload. Everything was the same until a certain point, which I guess is House of M.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/valechan/proud.jpg

[Exploding Boy]

Are you aloud to have pictures in your sig's on this site?

[Valechan]

It's not on my sig, it's before my sig :p

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/valechan/proud.jpg

[Exploding Boy]

Its the same thing.

[Valechan]

No it isn't. It's before the sig, it's not IN the sig.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/valechan/proud.jpg

[Exploding Boy]

Whatever. You and Ororo are very similar, her indomitable will and your indomitable stubbornness:p

[Valechan]

LOL, that is so true.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/valechan/proud.jpg

[Wolverazio]

It's an alternate future, it happens in the future and it's a natural extrapolation of the initial Reload. Everything was the same until a certain point, which I guess is House of M.

According to Wikipedia it's the future of an alternate reality (and since everything's the same until say...House of M that would continue to classify it as...DUN DUN DUN, alternate reality).

So, unless someone can find something to contradict this (which may exist) they are apples and oranges.

[FieryBalrog]

I think Marvels explanation for alternate realities is tied to their explanation for possible futures. Its said theres prime reality (616) and every decision made in 616 closes off alternate pathways for that decision. Each alternate pathway splits off into a new alternate reality where that pathway was chosen intead of the one chosen in 616.

So I'm guessing that once a possible future is "closed off"- because the decision that leads to it wasn't taken in 616- it splits off into an alternate reality.

[Cryostar1177]

That would be correct.

Isn't earth 616 the Ultimates earth?

[Essex]

I didn't pay much attention to X-Men: The End, but didn't it star a supposed daughter of Bishop and Deathbird? Has she been seen in any other comics yet? If she doesn't exist, it can be assumed The End is an alternate REALITY and not just an alternate future, can't it?

Excuse me if I'm wrong though, as I didn't read many issues of it.

[Wolverazio]

I didn't pay much attention to X-Men: The End, but didn't it star a supposed daughter of Bishop and Deathbird? Has she been seen in any other comics yet? If she doesn't exist, it can be assumed The End is an alternate REALITY and not just an alternate future, can't it?

Excuse me if I'm wrong though, as I didn't read many issues of it.

Plus, considering it's mentioned as an alternate reality, who is to say that the choice of Sinister cloning/creating Gambit isn't part of what sets it different from main continuity? Why I'll take it at face value, alternate future breaks off at a certain point and alternate reality is different altogether.

That would be correct.

Isn't earth 616 the Ultimates earth?

No. Earth 616 is main continuity. Sebita probably knows what designation Ultimates is given (I think he posted it somewhere else).

[Valechan]

No, the Ultimate World doesn't have a number yet.

The correct term for alternate futures such as the X-Men the End world or Earth 15104 (Here comes tomorrow) is DIVERGENT Alternate reality. It's called such because it shares a past with a reality, say Earth 616, and then it diverges at certain point (HCT changes in X-Men 154, X-Men the End, supposedly at HOM).

[Cryostar1177]

That's for the knowledge drop Sebita.

Even though I know it's not real, I've somewhat enjoyed X-Men then end.....it deals with the brood, that's always a good thing, even if it is Claremont.

[Harlekin]

X-Men the End, supposedly at HOM).
Except that is simply speculation. We have no idea where the two timelines would have diverged. Heck, the End could have diverged from 616 with the birth of Gambit. Even though some of its events remain largely the same, its future would be different.

[Valechan]

If you properly read X-Men the End you'd know that is not possible. Everything up to ReLoad was the same. The divergence clearly occurs a little after Reload. I'm thinking it's HOM, in their world HOM didn't happen and so, the ReLoad teams continued and well that's where they'd be 15 years from then. IF the birth of Gambit was different, then a lot of other things should be different. Until that is cleared in 616, we have to accept it.

[Wolverazio]

IF the birth of Gambit was different, then a lot of other things should be different.

Says who?

In theory, the birth of Gambit could be why that reality doesn't have HOM occur, even though everything else happens the same.

So until it is written otherwise, I say we don't have to accept it.

[FieryBalrog]

we dont have to accept it I guess, but we cant just dismiss it. And thats only because we dont know the actual diverging point for X-men: The End.

For HCT for example, we DO know the point at which the two realities diverge. Its when Scott decides his answer to Emma's question.

[Wolverazio]

we dont have to accept it I guess, but we cant just dismiss it. And thats only because we dont know the actual diverging point for X-men: The End.

For HCT for example, we DO know the point at which the two realities diverge. Its when Scott decides his answer to Emma's question.

That to me is the difference. Though some think it's a grande old thing that most of Morrison's run has been wiped away (except for that Xorneto thing, I don't agree) it is still clear how this all fits into the mythos and has been referenced since.

X-Men: The End I think is going to fall under the heading of "victim of editorial direction" since it was much closer to 616 before House of M. And, as other things that suffered the same fate, I think it is very likely that in a year or more, The End will officially just be a little known alternate reality (not alternate future).

BUT, that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

[Cryostar1177]

I don't know, and 18 issue mini series is kind of hard to stay a "Little Known Alternate Reality". :P

We think little known, let's talk about What if Realities, like What if the new mutants stayed in Asgard. There's little known for you.

[Valechan]

It's the last What if I bought, I ordered it like a couple of months ago, isue 12... it was a damn good read, Ororo ended as Odin :D

[Wolverazio]

I don't know, and 18 issue mini series is kind of hard to stay a "Little Known Alternate Reality". :P

We think little known, let's talk about What if Realities, like What if the new mutants stayed in Asgard. There's little known for you.

Prophet (Image title by Liefeld in the 90s) ran around the same amount.

Just b/c 18 issues get put out doesn't mean it will be greatly referenced in the future is my point.

[Cryostar1177]

I agree, that was a good what if....I liked Dani as the new goddess of death.

As for Prophet...I think there was a concerted effort within the comic industry to forget all things Liefield and his silly excuse for art.