Spidey's actual strength level?

[Human Spidey]

I made a quick search, but nothing came up for Spidey.

Anyways, according to most sources and Marvel's official website, Spiderman/ Peter Parker can lift roughly 10 tons, but under extreme circumstances (say when a loved one is in trouble) he can surpass that, it would seem several times. And with the recent "The Other" arc, what do you guys suppose his strength level is now? Spidey's actual strength, not how it is being enhanced by the Iron costume, but his actual strength.

I believe his leg muscles have become much stronger and he can now leap a few stroies higher.

Would you say the 15 ton mark or higher or lower?

Thanks.

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

In last year's Spider-man Marvel Guide it said he could now lift 15 tons, so perhaps even more now.



The marvel guide came out before The Other, but I think it was when he got his organics as Orko said...

[Orko Is King]

Didn't his strength increase when he got the organics?:confused:

[ragingdemon155]

This has always been up for debate.

Spidey's strength level gets butchered on so many occasions it's ridiculous.

Personally I've always stuck with the "Can lift 10 tons and under extreme conditions even a bit more". I try hard to ignore the advancements made during "The Other".

Still though, with that kind of strength level...Spidey shouldn't even be phazed when guys like DD hit him.

It's a shame how us readers can realize that bit of common sense but the writers still can't.

[ben_reilly_s_s]

I have read this "the other."
in fact i stopped reading and collecting at the end of sins past. i was hoping that it would turn out to be untrue.
when it didnt, i got rid of my collection.

anyway, way back in Amazing Spider-man #1 vol.1 The Fantastic Four (Reed i believe) said that he was very strong and that as he gets older he will get stronger. I really never saw him as much stronger than when he first appeared, a little bit yes. But not a lot. The only thing that jms did ??right?? was increase his power level.
I believe Spidey's powers were best described in Spider-Man #24 - the anniversary issue, green cover with holo-foil image. it explains that he doenst need to see in the dark. and that his spider-sense is always on, and can sense different levels of danger, even making him react without knowing what's happening.

I am in no way condoning anything jms does or says.

[not_a_victim]

This has always been up for debate.

Spidey's strength level gets butchered on so many occasions it's ridiculous.

Personally I've always stuck with the "Can lift 10 tons and under extreme conditions even a bit more". I try hard to ignore the advancements made during "The Other".

Still though, with that kind of strength level...Spidey shouldn't even be phazed when guys like DD hit him.

It's a shame how us readers can realize that bit of common sense but the writers still can't.

You want to talk about common sense, yet you make a non-sensical statements in your post.
Physical strength has nothing to do with whether or not a character can take physical pain.
You statement about DD's punch affecting Spidey is a non-sequitor ( I am proabably spelling that wrong). Just because Spidey is strong, it does not mean that he can take physical punishment and/or pain. They are two unrelated issues.

[D-day]

I made a quick search, but nothing came up for Spidey.

Anyways, according to most sources and Marvel's official website, Spiderman/ Peter Parker can lift roughly 10 tons, but under extreme circumstances (say when a loved one is in trouble) he can surpass that, it would seem several times. And with the recent "The Other" arc, what do you guys suppose his strength level is now? Spidey's actual strength, not how it is being enhanced by the Iron costume, but his actual strength.

I believe his leg muscles have become much stronger and he can now leap a few stroies higher.

Would you say the 15 ton mark or higher or lower?

Thanks.

I was always led to believe that he could only lift 2 tons, and up to 3 in an emergency.

:unishr:

[Human Spidey]

I was always led to believe that he could only lift 2 tons, and up to 3 in an emergency.


Thats probably how Ultimate version of Spiderman started out, but i think Ultimate Spidey can still lift about 5-6 tons, present day.

[ragingdemon155]

You want to talk about common sense, yet you make a non-sensical statements in your post.
Physical strength has nothing to do with whether or not a character can take physical pain.
You statement about DD's punch affecting Spidey is a non-sequitor ( I am proabably spelling that wrong). Just because Spidey is strong, it does not mean that he can take physical punishment and/or pain. They are two unrelated issues.

I'm sorry but were not talking about a human here though. It's not like Spidey is pressing 300 pounds or something. If that were the case then yes...I could agree that lifting would have nothing to do with durability.

Spider-man is lifting 10 freaking tons. I'm sorry but combine that with the fact that he has enhanced durability and there's no way that DD should be able to faze him. There were times during the old Stan Lee days I believe when Spidey would ALLOW himself to get beat up by humans just so he could catch his breath.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that superstrength goes hand in hand with durabilty in the world of comics.

[Ultra-Spidey]

All of you are pretty much right. First of all I have to agree that Spidey's physical strength has been butchered on many occasions. Those people working over at Marvel really have some continuity issues, i've seen Spidey's strength level fluctuate/mis-printed on more than a few occasions. One example, look at the Marvel Universe Cards series 2 and 3. Spidey's power levels are not identical.

But I think indeed that the overall consensus is that Spidey can lift up to 10 tons and has been known to display even greater strength in extreme circumstances. I've seen that printed more than anything else (in cards, comics, guides) and generally just roll with that bit of info.

And yes indeed, Spidey gained more strength along with the organics from that "Spidey turning into a giant spider.......AGAIN" storyline. I too also remember that Marvel Spiderman guide also printing that Spidey can lift 15 tons.

I'm assuming that is the "official" information on Spidey's new found strength, since the comics never really gave indept detail to exactly how much stronger Spidey had gotten.

[VuMania]

Marvel 2005 guide states that Spider-Man can lift 15 tons. Wizard magazine (which I wouldn't count on as an official listing) states Ultimate Spider-Man as lifting 2 tons, but he's still a growing boy blah, blah, blah.

No one knows for sure what changes the Other story arc had on Spider-Man's strength. All we know is that he's faster, sees in the dark, feels vibration, and...oh yeah, stingers. Marvel may decide not to increase his strength, or even lower it. If they do increase it, I can't see him being any stronger than 20 tons.

Whatever they decide, the character is definitely in need of some stability with his powers and history. It is possible to write interesting stories without
1) Spider-man dying or
2) Spider-Man going through some mutation
3) Spider-Man getting beaten nearly
4) Spider-Man giving up the super hero business

[Guyverjay]

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Amazing_Spider-Man_32-03.jpg

[SpiderZero3]

In one issue i'seen him supporting a building that had to weight over 30 tons. I know its not lifting but still buldings are heavy..

[Silverstein]

The truth be told, Spider-man should not be affected by the physical attacks of normal humans. You say that pain and stregnth have no corrolation(sp?), yet if a six year old punches me, I'm not hurt and I certainly don't get knocked down. And if I punch a body builder, with all of my stregnth I think that, as strong as I may be, they're only going to get pissed.

So why would someone who can't even lift a car have enough force behind their punch to even hurt someone who can launch said car with just their finger?


The reason that we keep seeing inconsistancies is that Daredevil and people like that have a large fan base, and Marvel would rather make everyone happy by bringing down spidey's powers a little, than to piss off one whole set by having Daredevil get sent to the hospital. (I realize this reason doesn't make sense either, because Marvel has pissed off fans on numerous occasions. So I don't know now...)

Also, I guess, there would be no drama if no one could be of any danger.


In spider-man's truest form it would take a whole lot to stop him. A lot more than what is presented in some comics. If you consider every instance of his peak powers. His highest jump, his greatest feat of physical stregnth, his fastest time, his quickest dodge, his perfected senses.....

[ragingdemon155]

The truth be told, Spider-man should not be affected by the physical attacks of normal humans. You say that pain and stregnth have no corrolation(sp?), yet if a six year old punches me, I'm not hurt and I certainly don't get knocked down. And if I punch a body builder, with all of my stregnth I think that, as strong as I may be, they're only going to get pissed.

So why would someone who can't even lift a car have enough force behind their punch to even hurt someone who can launch said car with just their finger?


The reason that we keep seeing inconsistancies is that Daredevil and people like that have a large fan base, and Marvel would rather make everyone happy by bringing down spidey's powers a little, than to piss off one whole set by having Daredevil get sent to the hospital. (I realize this reason doesn't make sense either, because Marvel has pissed off fans on numerous occasions. So I don't know now...)

Also, I guess, there would be no drama if no one could be of any danger.


In spider-man's truest form it would take a whole lot to stop him. A lot more than what is presented in some comics. If you consider every instance of his peak powers. His highest jump, his greatest feat of physical stregnth, his fastest time, his quickest dodge, his perfected senses.....

I couldn't have said it better.

Great post.

[Dmain_Event]

I tend to agree with a couple of opinions on this board.
First of all spidey is really strong (at his absolute peak I believe 20 tons is the limit) but he is not that big. He is 5'10 175 pounds. I know a couple of human being that can knock down a man of that size (I am sure DareDevil can do it too-that is who you guys are refering to right). If he catches spidey in a position where that is feasable I can see him doing that. Know problems there. :spidey:

[ragingdemon155]

I tend to agree with a couple of opinions on this board.
First of all spidey is really strong (at his absolute peak I believe 20 tons is the limit) but he is not that big. He is 5'10 175 pounds. I know a couple of human being that can knock down a man of that size (I am sure DareDevil can do it too-that is who you guys are refering to right). If he catches spidey in a position where that is feasable I can see him doing that. Know problems there. :spidey:

How exactly would he catch Spidey?

Comic writers tend to make it a "fair fight" when they go toe to toe simply for the fact that it would be boring to see Spidey throw him around like a ragdoll. But if you look at there abilities...there's no way that DD could even hurt Spider-man.

[Silverstein]

How exactly would he catch Spidey?

Comic writers tend to make it a "fair fight" when they go toe to toe simply for the fact that it would be boring to see Spidey throw him around like a ragdoll. But if you look at there abilities...there's no way that DD could even hurt Spider-man.

Exactly. But also consider this:

Fighters like Daredevil or Elektra, they look for points of weakness to attack. They look for the opponent to loose balance or step into a position where the opponent will loose balance. They look for points on the body that are unguarded and would hurt.

Now with normal people, a man around 145lbs could probablly take down a man around 180 maybe even 200 using these skills. It's possible.

But what happens whene you're facing a guy who will pretty much NEVER loose balance? A guy who is fast enough to dodge lightning or dodge bullets after they've been fired. A guy who can do that can dodge a fist or a kick. He could dodge a cute little cane or bo staff or Elektra's sai.


In a real fight, DD would have NO chance at all. Even if his hits were to somehow connect, the force behind it is not enough to harm Spider-man who has increased durability and such. Also with spider-man's healing ability (an ability he always had, but is often forgotten), he would recover from a physical attack probablly two times maybe three times faster than normal people.

So if I get punched, and take 15 seconds to recover....He'd take 5. One's ability to heal begins with any form of pain or attack, not simply something severe. Even a slap in the face would be recovering faster than a normal persons.

[chris moore]

I like this entry as a definitive listing of his abilities - the explanations of increased elasticity to tendons and fortifying of muscles and cartilage etc in bios is always a nice touch for durability. If a normal guy had superstrength but no increase in durabilty of his other tissues, then his bones would break under the pressure and his skin would eventually rip under the strain of larger diameter or increased numbers of muscle fibres. Though annoyingly, there isnt a mention of his strength level as (as it states) it is depicted differently from writer to writer. Best bet is to stick at the 10 tonnes with no effort, and 15 with supreme effort - this allows us a 5 tonne margin for when he has to really plant his feet, or wind up a punch, or get good leverage on lifting something without having to beg god for the strength to lift whatever it is (which'd be the 15 tonner).

For a scientific explanation of how it might be possible for durability to be attained without vast increases in mass, see the Science of the X-Men book where they say how rearrangement of the carbon atoms in his skin result in the organic steel. As in essence rearranging coal carbon with pressure makes diamonds. The energy of the radiation combined with the spider venom of the bite may have caused a widespread rearrangement of the lower/newer layers of spidey's skin, giving them a more "organic steel" like quality (though to a much lower degree than Piotr or Cage). When he sheds skin like we all do, the breakdown of the cells disrupts the rearrangement so it can slough off as weak as normal skin.

Powers, abilities and equipment
[edit]
Powers and abilities
Peter Parker became Spider-Man when he was bitten by an irradiated spider, causing a variety of changes in his body which gave him his superpowers.

Recently, the "The Other" storyline purported that Spider-Man's powers may be mystical in nature, and the story ended with Spider-Man gaining many new powers.

In the original Lee-Ditko days, Spider-Man was established as having:

The ability to cling to walls.
Super-human strength.
A sixth sense (dubbed "Spider-Sense") which alerted Spider-Man to danger.
Incredible balance, agility and leaping abilities.
After being bitten by the radioactive spider, Peter Parker created mechanical web-shooting devices, since the bite did not give him the ability to spin webs.

Spider-Man's powers and equipment endured with very few changes for some 40 years, right up until recent times.

[edit]
"Wall-Crawling"
Spider-Man gained the ability to adhere to a surface using any part of his body - although if the surface is particularly greasy, he can't stick. His ability to stick to objects is strictly conscious though - i.e., he cannot stick to something by accident. In addition, if he chooses to not release himself from an object he is sticking to, nothing can remove him. His arms would rip off first or the wall would break before his hands let go. The same goes for any part of his body.

Various attempts have been made to explain Spider-Man's wall crawling abilities in the comics including barbed hairs on the ends of his fingers (in the movies, at least), suction from his pores, adhesion to surfaces on the subatomic level, self-telekinesis, and a sort of bio-static electricity.

[edit]
Enhanced physicality
Spider-Man's strength has varied with the amount he can lift varying hugely depending on the writers, although he is most definitely superhuman, able to lift several tons under strain, while his leg muscles have developed to the point where he can easily jump several stories in a single bound. Spider-Man can move roughly 15 times faster than a regular human, and his practical reaction time is many times that of a normal human. Finally, his bodily tissues are substantially more durable and resistant to impact or trauma than an ordinary human, although he is certainly not invulnerable.

In the Spider-Man: The Other storyline, after being fatally injured by Morlun, Spider-Man shed his skin and outer tissues. When he emerged from this dormant state, lost or damaged tissue (including a lost eye) was completely regenerated. The full consequences of this regeneration have yet to be explored, although he also developed new powers including retractable bone stingers that protrude from his wrists (which he has not yet developed control over), enhanced speed, and his spider-sense was heightened, allowing him to see in the dark and sense vibrations transmitted over his web-lines.

[edit]
Spider-sense
Spider-Man's most subtle power is his spider-sense. A form of clairvoyance or sixth sense, it unconsciously activates and alerts him to any threat to himself, manifesting as a tingling at the back of his skull. While it cannot tell him of the exact nature of the threat, it is vaguely directional and Spider-Man can judge the severity of the threat by the intensity of the tingling.

The spider-sense not only alerts Spider-Man to threats to his physical safety, but also warns him to threats to his privacy such as being observed while changing identities. Spider-Man also uses the spider-sense as a means to time his evasive maneuvers to the point where he can avoid multiple gunshots or machine gun fire.

The exact nature of the spider-sense took many years for writers to nail down. In the early days, it could be used to locate objects and people, as well as detecting danger. Later, it reacted only to enemies, not friends, even if said friends were about to attack Spider-Man (as in a memorable issue where Aunt May hit Spider-Man over the head with a vase). Eventually, it was firmly established that the spider-sense reacts to any and all potential dangers facing Spider-Man. Often, he ignores the Spider-sense, which usually costs him in some way.

As of the Spider-Man: The Other storyline, Spider-Man has honed this sense to allow him to have 360° vision. He can also now see in the dark and sense vibrations in his web-lines.

In comics, the activation of the spider-sense is often shown by wavy lines emanating from Peter's head, with a symbolic image of his mask occasionally being half-drawn over his face when he is out of costume as an additional cue.

[edit]
Beating the spider-sense
Although his spider-sense has saved his life innumerable times, Spider-Man has learned the hard way that it can be beaten. For instance, the Green Goblin once secretly attacked him with a gas that temporarily suppressed this perceptive ability, allowing the supervillain to shadow him and learn his secret identity. Additionally, the alien symbiote of Venom and its offspring Carnage are not recognized by the spider-sense. This is believed to have been caused by the Venom symbiote's bonding with Peter Parker. Ben Reilly did not suffer from this problem as he never bonded with the symbiote, and was cloned from a cell that was taken before Peter wore the symbiote suit. The ability to avoid Parker's spider-sense gives some supervillains an edge that Spider-Man often has trouble countering.

[edit]
Stingers
Recently, in the controversial The Other: Evolve or Die storyline, Peter developed long, bone-like "stingers" that protrude from under his wrists (one on each arm), which pop out against his will when he is shocked, and are coated in a venom which paralyzes the victim for several hours. He considers it "Logan envy."

[edit]
Scientific abilities
Apart from his physical abilities, Peter has prodigious aptitude in the physical sciences. In the comics, he has a facility for chemistry and physics, and later pursues a graduate degree in biochemistry from Empire State University. In the recent films, he maintains a superb intellect with a mastery of physics and a degree from Columbia University, although a controversial aspect of the films is director Sam Raimi's decision that the film version of Peter Parker wouldn't be smart enough to design and build mechanical web-shooters (hence the organic web-shooters of the movies).

[edit]
Equipment
Although he is usually of limited financial means, Spider-Man has developed personal equipment that plays an important role in his superhero career. Every so often, he will concoct a special armor or web fluid for a specific threat. For example, he donned a padded suit to battle Electro, and used a very short-lived armored suit in Web of Spider-Man #100.

Recently, Spider-Man has received a controversial new suit of armor from Tony Stark that was custom built to enhance his abilities. Supported by a system similar to that of Stark's classic 'Iron Man' design, it features many gadgets, including three mechanical spider-arms to allow him to see around corners (via cameras in the tips) and manipulate objects indirectly - though they are too delicate to use in combat. Other features include, but are not limited to: gliding for short distances, limited bullet-proofing, built in fire, police, and emergency scanner, audio and visual amplification including infrared and ultra-violet, carbon filters in the mouth area to keep out toxins, and a short range GPS microwave communication system. All of these are routed through a computerized control system in the chestpiece. It can also "more or less disappear" when not needed, as it responds to neurochemical pulses. The new costume was also able to conform to other styles Spidey had affected over the years, and even has the ability to camouflage into a variety of backgrounds...the darker the better.

[edit]
Web-shooters
Spider-Man's web-shooters are one of the character's most distinguishing traits. They are wrist mounted devices that fire a fibrous adhesive very similar to the material spiders use to construct webs. The trigger rests high in the palm and requires a double tapping from the middle and ring fingers to activate, so Peter can't accidentally fire the shooter if he makes a fist or his hand hits the trigger. The placement of the trigger and the finger pressure needed to activate it yield Spider-Man's distinctive hand gesture, with the two outer fingers extended, and the two inner fingers on the palm.

The default setting has the adhesive threaded through a special mesh to take on a spider web like design. The substance dries almost immediately into a strong material that can support very heavy loads. Typical uses of his webs include creating long swing lines which he uses to travel through the chasms between the Manhattan high-rises. The substance is formulated to dissolve after one hour which is generally sufficient time for Spider-Man's needs while ensuring the webs he makes do not cause undue litter. In addition, Parker can modify the fluid formulation to suit particular specialized needs when called for (this explains why the webbing sometimes conducts electricity, but can also be used as an insulator). The web-shooters can also be used to expel other liquids, using interchangeable cartridges, but are seldom used to do this.

In the 90s Spider-Man animated TV series, Peter Parker explained that when he became Spider-Man he also became subconsciously aware that a combination of certain enzymes would create a strong, sticky fluid, reminiscent of a spider's webbing. In some versions of the character (such as in the popular movie series), the character generates webs organically from his own altered spider-like biology, instead of mechanical web shooters (a change that has recently been introduced into the comic books).

[edit]
Spider tracers
Spider-Man has also developed small electronic "spider-tracers" which allow him to track objects or individuals. The outer casing is shaped like a spider and is designed to cling to a target without attracting attention. While he originally threw his tracers at a target in the hopes that at least one hits, he later developed a wrist launcher which ejects tracers above the wrist while the web is fired from below to allow for more precise and reliable applications of the tracers.

Spider-Man originally used a small receiver device to follow the tracers. However, he eventually learned that he could tune the tracer signal frequency to his own spider-sense for more convenient use, but the receiver is still used as a back-up and long-range measure.

[edit]
Other equipment
Spider-Man keeps his regular field equipment in a specially designed utility belt that contains his web fluid cartridges and his tracers. It also carries his camera, which has an extended rear metal plate that allows him to use his web to position it without interfering with its functions. Finally, the belt contains a strong light called a Spider Signal that creates an image of his mask when activated.

In addition, the Human Torch once helped Spider-Man build a car called the Spider-Mobile which had a paint job and modifications that followed his spider motif. Unfortunately, Spider-Man had never learned to drive a car, and crashed the car into the Hudson River soon after receiving it. Later it was retrieved by the Tinkerer, who altered it, making it capable of driving itself, shooting webbing, and rolling on the walls with sticking tires. It was finally immobilized by Spider-Man and sent back to Corona Motors.

[Odin's Lapdog]

spideys as strong as he needs to be...

a lot of people whine about him being tagged by smaller weaker humans yet they are happy to see him fighting the hulk and happily boasting that he could kill the hulk if he really wanted to, what trollocks.

to even go up against someone who is at the very least 10 TIMES stronger than you is craziness, have you ever met someone 10 times stronger than you, would you even try against them?

if anything i preferred spidey when he wasn't heavy hitting and could get tagged by humans. Spidey should only beat stronger foes by out witting them which he doesn't seem to be doing anymore and he's going for just brute tactics which isn't the spidey i know and love.

[chris moore]

Its a shame there isnt anything like this for Spidey really: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geKjvg0rI9c&search=jlu%20superman

The best we've had is in Ultimate Spider-Man he hit Ox as hard as he could while saying it was nice not to have to pull his punches for a change - cept Ox is just a big normal human... *sigh*

[Odin's Lapdog]

i hate that scene with a passion.

[James"007"Bond]

I tend to agree with a couple of opinions on this board.
First of all spidey is really strong (at his absolute peak I believe 20 tons is the limit) but he is not that big. He is 5'10 175 pounds. I know a couple of human being that can knock down a man of that size (I am sure DareDevil can do it too-that is who you guys are refering to right). If he catches spidey in a position where that is feasable I can see him doing that. Know problems there. :spidey:

But thats the thing. Specifically speaking, DD could never ever hope to even touch spidey. Spidey has his spider-sense, his insane speed and agility, coupled with super strength. The only way DD is touching spidey is if its a conscious decision on spidey's part to allow himself to be tagged but as chineesefood said, al this BS is done is to keep a certain section of fans happy which is BS imo because right now marvel are doing everything in their power to completely ruin spider-man nd last time I checked, spidey has 1 hell of a huge fan base.

[Spidey-Jason]

DD should only be able to touch spider-man if spidey wanted to.Super human reflexes,agility,(even more)speed and spider-sense.I won't even talk about the strength.Daredevil is totally outclassed here.:spidey:

[ragingdemon155]

Its a shame there isnt anything like this for Spidey really: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geKjvg0rI9c&search=jlu%20superman

The best we've had is in Ultimate Spider-Man he hit Ox as hard as he could while saying it was nice not to have to pull his punches for a change - cept Ox is just a big normal human... *sigh*


That scene is pretty much how I feel about Spider-man. He usually has to hold back and it's just not in his fun loving personality to let loose. I mean come on now....he easily has one of the most dangerous combination of abilties in the Marvel universe and people always tend to overlook that.

[James"007"Bond]

spideys as strong as he needs to be...

a lot of people whine about him being tagged by smaller weaker humans yet they are happy to see him fighting the hulk and happily boasting that he could kill the hulk if he really wanted to, what trollocks.

to even go up against someone who is at the very least 10 TIMES stronger than you is craziness, have you ever met someone 10 times stronger than you, would you even try against them?

if anything i preferred spidey when he wasn't heavy hitting and could get tagged by humans. Spidey should only beat stronger foes by out witting them which he doesn't seem to be doing anymore and he's going for just brute tactics which isn't the spidey i know and love.

This is how i see it. Hulk is obviously stronger than spidey but that doesn't rule out spidey being able to cause some damage. Given their respective abilities, it is possible for spidey to throw hulk around a bit and actually land in a few hits, brining home some pain.
You can get a 15 year old boy and if he were to put enough force and strength in a punch and hit a well trained boxer in the face, its going to hurt. The same logic applies in the spidey/hulk situation, especially considering that both their respective powers are in the same category of being enhanced and super.

[Gregatron]

In the early days, it was said Spidey had the strength of ten men (or more). Then camed the references to having "the proportionate strength of a spider", then the "10 tons" standard.

Seems he keeps getting more and more powerful.

This, of course, goes completely against one of the core concepts of the character: he's an underdog.

The funny thing is, it seems that the more powerful he gets, the easier he's beaten by F-list-types like Morlun.

[Silverstein]

One more thing: This will kind of end the debate for anyone who cares about common sense and facts but......Let us not forget that as much as Daredevil trains with fighting styles and such, Spider-man has had so much experience that he invented his own fighting style.

Even if he were to lower the force of his hits, and if he allowed himself to be hit...He still has the skill of a fighter. And because he made his own style, it's nothing that DD could simply predict. You can tell what a boxer is going to do, or a martial artist whatever.....But the reason why styles like capoeira and drunken martial arts are good, are because you DON'T know what to block and what to dodge.

[ragingdemon155]

One more thing: This will kind of end the debate for anyone who cares about common sense and facts but......Let us not forget that as much as Daredevil trains with fighting styles and such, Spider-man has had so much experience that he invented his own fighting style.

Even if he were to lower the force of his hits, and if he allowed himself to be hit...He still has the skill of a fighter. And because he made his own style, it's nothing that DD could simply predict. You can tell what a boxer is going to do, or a martial artist whatever.....But the reason why styles like capoeira and drunken martial arts are good, are because you DON'T know what to block and what to dodge.

Thats the same point I always try to bring up in the typical Cap or Wolverine or DD vs. Spidey threads. There is NO WAY to predict what Spider-man is going to do in a fight. He's invented his own fighting style and it's completely unpredictable because it's moves only he can pull off.

[Odin's Lapdog]

This is how i see it. Hulk is obviously stronger than spidey but that doesn't rule out spidey being able to cause some damage. Given their respective abilities, it is possible for spidey to throw hulk around a bit and actually land in a few hits, brining home some pain.
You can get a 15 year old boy and if he were to put enough force and strength in a punch and hit a well trained boxer in the face, its going to hurt. The same logic applies in the spidey/hulk situation, especially considering that both their respective powers are in the same category of being enhanced and super.
doing damage and claiming outright that you can kill such a person if you wanted to is completely different.

a boxer isn't TEN TIMES STRONGER than a 15 yr old boy. it's really quite a different situation.

spidey always punches well above his weight. I'm sorry but if someone could only bench press 8kg and they came to take you on, i think you'd *****slap them off the planet, no matter how fast they were.

[James"007"Bond]

If spidey declared that he could kil the hulk then its possible that he could but by no means could he do it toe 2 toe in a physical fight. Hulk and spidey have been around for a long time and I think its fair to say that hulk is an opponent thats easier than most to study and to be made aware of his strengths and weaknesses. Spidey killing hulk would be purely on a scientific level or he could do it the easy way and kill Banner but at the end of the day, its all relative. There's no way Marvel'll have spidey ina hulk comic declaring he could kill him, thats just sking for unecessary trouble but in a spidey comic, fans of spidey are more open to the idea that it could be possible.

[Marc]

doing damage and claiming outright that you can kill such a person if you wanted to is completely different.

a boxer isn't TEN TIMES STRONGER than a 15 yr old boy. it's really quite a different situation.

spidey always punches well above his weight. I'm sorry but if someone could only bench press 8kg and they came to take you on, i think you'd *****slap them off the planet, no matter how fast they were.

It doesn't quite work the way you seem to think it does. Punching someone and bench pressing things are very different. For example, guys who can benchpress 500 kilo's in all likelyhood are going to output less energy than a trained martial artist who benchpresses some 100+ Kg's. For starters, you have different muscle groups and short instant energy bursts use the muscles differently than say picking up a large object. Thats why a sprinter does plyometric exercises while a weight lifter may do isometrics instead. And again there is a difference between muscle mass and muscle density. So mass/strength isn't as important as you might think.

With punches relying on technique, conditioning, explosive power and SPEED more than how much you benchpress. Spidey is extremely fast, the faster you are the more energy you have and the more your relativistic mass is. So speed does in fact make up for any strength you have. Thats why a bullet weighing very little will cause so much damage. You also have to consider area of contact, spidey's fists are relatively tiny compared to the hulk, therefore his energy output is extremely focused when hitting the hulk especially if you consider he probably only uses two knuckles. While the hulk's larger contact area spreads out the energy more so its less focused damage. You then have to consider other things that make up a punch. For starters, punching in space is going to be ineffective since you have no real mass to work from. When you punch on earth you use the ground to push off from to give you a lot of your energy. Spidey's power in jumping helps him in this but really more down to his ability to bond with things. For example there are bugs that can resist an ant's strength despite being far smaller and nowhere near as strong, due to their ability to electromagnetically bond to its surrounding area. It in effect 'becomes' part of that object. So what the ant is really doing is trying to move say a plant that masses far more than itself than the actual bug. Spidey has the same bonding ability, so his strength is as if he masses the entire ground when he is punching as he becomes 'part' of it.

Then there is technique, martial artists work on the perfectly balanced punch to gain proper contact and precise movement of the muscles/bone to get complete efficiency. Spidey has a perfect equalibrium, so he already has this ability even if he hasn't been trained.

Also with regards to his strength, spidey in the master planner arc I believe states the weight on his back was that of a train, a train cab can weigh in excess of 80 tons. On his back with zero leverage (potential energy) requires a far greater feat of strength to lift it off. For example, benchpressing 100 kilo's is nothing like getting it off your back while lying down. Spidey obviously has muscle potential that he uses from time to time that is a great deal above his normal strength. For example he has to live with this strenght of every moment of every day. So he is CONSTANTLY underusing it to be safe, even when he fights he always pulls his punches. If you do not use your strength on a regular basis, it is a lot harder to use it when you want, your muscles fatigue and just simply aren't used to it. So its understandable he has problems in accessing it, he doesn't even do any training, he never pushes himself really in terms of exercize. Also a lot of it could be mental because his muscles are obviously entirely changed so the brain hasn't been trained to use them properly. As the brain need's just as much influence in using your new muscles as the muscles themselves need to be trained. If you stuck a brain in a body builders body then you wouldn't know how to handle yourself.

The Hulk only weighs a ton in anycase, so spidey has even at his lowest strength the ability to throw the hulk around like a ragdoll even if it does no damage.

So in summary, spidey's potential for strength/speed/etc. is far greater than what he uses/need's but why bother exploring that when you can have spidey give birth to himself, or die and get reborn. :confused:

[Odin's Lapdog]

i'm taking this all into account but then all this could be turned on its head to look at the extremeties of the events that the hulk has also had to endure.

for every feat of strength that spidey has shown to be quite awesome, the hulk has shown feats of strength and durability that make spidey's efforts seem quite tame.

the fact still remains that spidey isn't a trained martial artist. again one can say that he doesn't need to be since he's more agile than any acrobat yet he's recieved no official training, it's in his blood. Personally i don't think anyone who hasn't recieved any official training can punch to their optimal potential, hulk included. he may devise a way to punch that is perhaps better than most normal humans but relative to a trained boxer or martial artist, it will most likely be less effective.

sure spidey has plenty of potential but he's limited and marvel has a problem with limiting its limited characters, it's a universe where anyone can really have a go at anyone else and have a means of winning, there isn't much stability in some of these matters and it gets annoying, especially with the more favourable characters of spidey, cap, wolverine who all have their limitations but due to favourable writing seem to get away with murder.

a spidey hulk all out fight would go along the lines of his morlun battle although it wouldn't take as long since the hulk wouldn't need to hold out in order to get his substinence and parker wouldn't be able to find a means of physically taking him on. And here again the hulk's speed is being seriously underestimated, it's sadly undershown but he's really fast when he needs to be.

sure spidey can put up a fight, i don't mind that but openly saying he could kill him is just plain ridiculous.

i'm sorry but if someone was only able to pick up 8kgs, no matter how well trained they were, if they started on me, i'd pummel them into the ground, i don't care how strong or fast they are. It's not even like spidey strategically places 90% of his blows anywho, most of the time he's hitting the face looking for the quick knock out.


i mean listen to this for another example, when he fought wolverine in berlin, wolverine implied that spidey could kill him by breaking his neck if he used all his strenght, meaning that one of the world's strongest materials could be destroyed by a class 10 being, i mean what trollocks is that, :o

[Odin's Lapdog]

If spidey declared that he could kil the hulk then its possible that he could but by no means could he do it toe 2 toe in a physical fight. Hulk and spidey have been around for a long time and I think its fair to say that hulk is an opponent thats easier than most to study and to be made aware of his strengths and weaknesses. Spidey killing hulk would be purely on a scientific level or he could do it the easy way and kill Banner but at the end of the day, its all relative. There's no way Marvel'll have spidey ina hulk comic declaring he could kill him, thats just sking for unecessary trouble but in a spidey comic, fans of spidey are more open to the idea that it could be possible.
well the digger being he fought was supposed to be close the hulk strength and he took him out toe to toe, and i think in the context he meant toe to toe as well.

i'm pretty sure he didn't mean it in any scientific manner when he said it otherwise i wouldn't bother arguing it, there are plenty of ways of gaining a victory over the hulk but killing him in battle is very far fetched in my eyes.

there shouldn't be comic differentials, it's all one universe, what applies in one book should again apply in another otherwise what is the point?

spidey is the ultimate yo yo character, at least wolverine gets a good decking every once in a while but spidey acts like the sun shines out of his ass taking on people across the spread.

his upper level of physical bashing should be around scorpion level who i would have thought to be around twice or three times his strength. enemies above that strength he should need to use his speed and wits to outsmart and outmanouevre to gain a victory.

saying he could stomp the hulk is just too far fetched.

[James"007"Bond]

there shouldn't be comic differentials, it's all one universe, what applies in one book should again apply in another otherwise what is the point?



Well unfortunately my Nigerian brethren, thats the way Marvel operates and has been this way for quite some time. Each book focusing on Marvel's respective characters often taylor preference to a character regardless of its far-fetched innacuracies.