Michael Moore says "Video game/Violence link is nothing but panic"...

[Mentok]

http://www.gamerandy.com/archives/2006/04/george_gets_mic.shtml

One of the biggest factors to arise in the post-Columbine hysteria was the violent video games panic. In Bowling for Columbine, you didn’t speak about any of those notions.

There was nothing to say about it.

You didn’t think that it was worth mentioning?

There wasn’t a real issue there, that’s just it. There’s nothing to the idea at all, it’s just panic. That whole angle is overblown.

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Finally someone noticed that the VG Violence angle was used as a scapegoat... those *Bleep!* were *Bleep!* nuts!!

[Matt]

And people say Michael Moore is nuts. He is really the first public figure who had the balls to say that :up:

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

And people say Michael Moore is nuts. He is really the first public figure who had the balls to say that :up:



balls AND common sense....


I'm hoping the violence issue will die down soon like the violence/cinema debate, as more adults play games now and realise not to listen to the God fearing d**ks who come up with this crap.

I did my second year thesis on videogame violence (quite interesting imo) and it amazes me how people can claim such stupid ideas without any shred of conclusive evidence....

[Horrorfan]

I don't agree with all his views, even though he makes entertaining movies, but it's about time someone said this.


I don't know why anyone ever replied to accusations of games causing violence with 'OMG the world was a peaceful utopia before pong?????'

[Benstamania]

Why did it have to come from Moore? I still loath the clown but I'm surprised he's the only one that says this. Now all we need is for Hillary and ol' Joe Lieberman to wake up and smell the coffee.

[블라스]

Any chance I could see that thesis?
Sounds very interesting.

[WhatsHisFace]

I wouldn't expect a flaming liberal to say this, with Hilary Clinton, Joe Lieberman and Jack Thompson saying the opposite.

[SouLeSS]

Oh, well now that Michael Moore said it, it must be true!

[WhatsHisFace]

It was true before Moore said it.

[Addendum]

Oh, well now that Michael Moore said it, it must be true!

Should we believe what Hilary, Libermann, and that nutter Thompson are spouting about video games without anything to back up their statements other than their emotions?

[MangleBoP]

About time that fat@$$ mother4^(<er got SOMETHING right!

[Addendum]

It's amusing how people who disagree with Moore's views bring an unrelated thing (his weight) into things.

[Benstamania]

I wouldn't expect a flaming liberal to say this, with Hilary Clinton, Joe Lieberman and Jack Thompson saying the opposite.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Moore isn't just liberal, he's "booed off the stage by other Liberals Liberal."

Just sortof shocking.

[hippie_hunter]

I actually agree with Michael Moore :eek:

[MangleBoP]

It's amusing how people who disagree with Moore's views bring an unrelated thing (his weight) into things.
It's amusing (and ironic) that a man who weighs 400+ pounds spends so much time and energy 8!+9#!~6 and complaining about the excesses of American society.

[Horrorfan]

It's amusing (and ironic) that a man who weighs 400+ pounds spends so much time and energy 8!+9#!~6 and complaining about the excesses of American society.

LOL true, true :up:

[kytrigger]

I actually agree with Michael Moore :eek:

I know, it hurts me to say it too, but it's true this time...

[jaydawg]

Funny, considering he choose to use video game clips in Bowling for Columbine to implicate that games played a roll in the shootings....

[SpiderHulkThing]

yeah i think i remember a clip in the movie as well. but its been awhile since i've seen it and i only saw it once. anyway, violent people play violent games. but they should be thankful that most reasonable, intelligent, violent people take out thier frustration on video games rather than in real life.

[terry78]

You would think conservatives would be the ones with the sticks up their ass about game violence. Go figure that one. Must be a gun thang. :cool:

[Capt Throbberson]

And people say Michael Moore is nuts. He is really the first public figure who had the balls to say that :up:
Bush said it once

[terry78]

^He was chock full of jagermeister at the time, though. :o

[kytrigger]

^He was chock full of jagermeister at the time, though. :o

so the man has taste....

[War Lord]

Michael Moore is wrong.

It's well known that the more you practice something, the more likely that you will react as you have practiced. It's why sports and the military constantly have their people run drills.

[TheCardPlayer]

Funny, considering he choose to use video game clips in Bowling for Columbine to implicate that games played a roll in the shootings....No he used those to show that Japan had violent games yet less crimes.

[Addendum]

Michael Moore is wrong.

It's well known that the more you practice something, the more likely that you will react as you have practiced. It's why sports and the military constantly have their people run drills.
Running drills.... and playing games on a PS2 or Xbox. I don't see a connection. Being a crack shot on FPS games does not make one an expert marksman in real life.

Also, when there is nothing conclusive that states "playing violent video games will make a child become a psycho killer", I need something stronger than one's opinion.

There are more important factors as to why a kid goes nutso and shoots up his school. The video game collection, CD collection and what clothes he or she wears is a minor issue.

[War Lord]

Running drills.... and playing games on a PS2 or Xbox. I don't see a connection. Being a crack shot on FPS shooters does not make one an expert marksman in real life.

Also, when there is nothing conclusive that states "playing violent video games will make a child become a psycho killer", I need something stronger than one's opinion.

There are more important factors as to why a kid goes nutso and shoots up his school. The video game collection, CD collection and what clothes he or she wears is a minor issue.

The connection is the mind. What you've trained your mind to do, your body is going to respond likewise to similar stimuli.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051202094251.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051012082710.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/04/000424094004.htm

That's not to say that video games create a violent personality, though that cannot be denied, but it increases the tendency to have a violent response to stimuli, moreso then if the person never played video games.

[TheCardPlayer]

I guess Jack The Ripper played that DS surgery game and reenacted it!

The monster! Blame Nintendo!

[hippie_hunter]

I guess Jack The Ripper played that DS surgery game and reenacted it!

The monster! Blame Nintendo!

Silly goose, Jack the Ripper was around 100 years before the Nintendo DS existed

[TheCardPlayer]

Silly goose, Jack the Ripper was around 100 years before the Nintendo DS existed.....






That's the......point.

[THWIP*]

.....






That's the......point.


YOUR SARCASM DETECTOR IS IN NEED OF A TUNE-UP. :O

[TheCardPlayer]

I have real trouble with Internet chatter. I can't discern sarcasm or sometimes I totally misinterpret things.


Damn French first language! I wanted to be AMERICAN!

[hippie_hunter]

I have real trouble with Internet chatter. I can't discern sarcasm or sometimes I totally misinterpret things.


Damn French first language! I wanted to be AMERICAN!

Ugh, you're French :down

Also, couldn't you tell I was sarcastic by saying Silly Goose.

[Addendum]

Violent games may be a contributing factor. However, it is not the sole reason despite the tripe Hilary, Liebermann and Thompson claim.

The major issues should be: how did that individual obtain the weapons they used, was the individual a witness and/or victim of abuse.

A kid who shoots up their school, takes their own life, or becomes a career criminal was already ****ed up before they picked up a video game controller, saw an R-rated movie, or discovered some obscure metal band from Norway.

[War Lord]

Violent games may be a contributing factor. However, it is not the sole reason despite the tripe Hilary, Liebermann and Thompson claim.

The major issues should be: how did that individual obtain the weapons they used, was the individual a witness and/or victim of abuse.

A kid who shoots up their school, takes their own life, or becomes a career criminal was already ****ed up before they picked up a video game controller, saw an R-rated movie, or discovered some obscure metal band from Norway.

It's because of rap.

Without that factor, you have an incomplete circle. Include it and that's all you need to know.

[THWIP*]

Ugh, you're French :down

Also, couldn't you tell I was sarcastic by saying Silly Goose.


NO, BECAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY A SILLY CANADIAN GOOSE. :p

http://www.taloyoak.com/taloyoak-images/Branta-canadensis214.jpg

[TheCardPlayer]

I prefer Moose instead of goose.

http://snowe.senate.gov/images/moose.jpg


Aren't they more gracious? I remember seeing a skull of a moose near a ''cabane a sucre''. Nice eatery!

[THWIP*]

I prefer Moose instead of goose.

http://snowe.senate.gov/images/moose.jpg


Aren't they more gracious? I remember seeing a skull of a moose near a ''cabane a sucre''. Nice eatery!


YOU JUST HAD TO BRING YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCES INTO THIS, DIDN'T YOU? :down:(

[Horrorfan]

I prefer Moose instead of goose.

http://snowe.senate.gov/images/moose.jpg


Aren't they more gracious? I remember seeing a skull of a moose near a ''cabane a sucre''. Nice eatery!


There's a moose loose in this hoose!

[Addendum]

What kind of rap?

I still listen to A Tribe Called Quest, Digital Underground, Run-DMC, Kool Moe Dee, Ultramagnetic MCs, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

I'm still in the process of adding to my old-school collection

[TheCardPlayer]

YOU JUST HAD TO BRING YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCES INTO THIS, DIDN'T YOU? :down:(Ha. Wrong again. It's deers that get me hot!

[TheCardPlayer]

There's a moose loose in this hoose!What are you talking aboot?

:D

[Horrorfan]

Ha. Wrong again. It's deers that get me hot!


Queer deers?
:confused:


(sort of like care bears but gay.)


(Or gayer.)

[TheCardPlayer]

Queer deers?
:confused:Hot mama deers. Aren't they hot?

[Horrorfan]

Hot mama deers. Aren't they hot?



After ten minutes over a bbq, they sure are :up:

[TheCardPlayer]

After ten minutes over a bbq, they sure are :up: Even tastier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat



Miam!

[hippie_hunter]

I prefer Moose instead of goose.

http://snowe.senate.gov/images/moose.jpg


Aren't they more gracious? I remember seeing a skull of a moose near a ''cabane a sucre''. Nice eatery!

I have a dog named Moose

[Addendum]

http://www.ycdtotv.com/images/200308/cast%20pics%20235x176/Pdvd_030.jpg
And then there was Moose from You Can't Do That On Television...

[TheCardPlayer]

I had a cousin that looked like that.


Looked. Now she's fat and retarded.

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

Any chance I could see that thesis?
Sounds very interesting.

It was, but I have a religeous tendancy to burn/delete any finished+marked work when i'm done (unless its for my portfolio), it helps my Chi...:O


BTW I highly recommend Trigger Happy, by Steven Poole. There is only one chapter dedicated to violence, but he makes some good points.

I also remember a quote from Edge UK mag that I used:

"Don't ban the drug, watch for the overdose..."



IMO, if you're f****d up, you're f****d up. All games can do is make you f**k up more creatively.



Also the Columbine kids were fans of the Matrix, and Marylin Manson, why wern't any of those attributed to the shootings?

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

Also, I actively challenge anyone here to find an experiment, or come up with a theory that I can't find a gaping hole in regarding Videogame violence. There is almost always a variable not taken into account.

[amazingfantasy15]

Also the Columbine kids were fans of the Matrix, and Marylin Manson, why wern't any of those attributed to the shootings?

Both of those things were attributed to the shootings, I think they were attributed even before video games were given as a reason.

Video Games are an easy target to blame horrible actions on. I and many of my friends have played video games our entire lives and have lived fairly violent lives. In fact, the only people I know that own guns are the ones that didn't really play video games. I've never felt the need to jump on a turtle, explore labyrinths for mystical power triangles, join a demolition derby in an ice cream truck, carjack someone, rip another persons head and spine out or reinact a World War 2 battle, but these are all things I've had a great time doing in Video Games.

[Addendum]

They were more into KMFDM and Rammstein

[amazingfantasy15]

Watching the news today, the government has just started a new investigation into the video game industry. Says the ESRB isn't rating the games well enough. They had an interview with some guy from Alaska that shoot up his school back in the '90s, saying he was inspired to do it because of video games, nice excuse for being a moron.

[The Overlord]

Michael Moore is wrong.

It's well known that the more you practice something, the more likely that you will react as you have practiced. It's why sports and the military constantly have their people run drills.

I thought conservatives believed in personal responsibility and now your saying big bad video games make people violent, so its not their fault. You just love contradictions and logical fallacies, don't you?

[Addendum]

The ESRB can not be held liable because some people lack the brain capacity to flip a box over and read the reasoning for the rating.

...looks at my copy of San Andreas which I bought October '05...

Rated "M"- Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs.

If anyone should be held liable, it should be the elementary school teachers for passing these stupid parents when they were kids

[War Lord]

I thought conservatives believed in personal responsibility and now your saying big bad video games make people violent, so its not their fault. You just love contradictions and logical fallacies, don't you?

You humanists really like to simplify things, don't you?

Whatever a person does, he's responsible no matter what.

However, nobody forces anybody to pick up or create habits that can further infuence their behaviour in ways that they never considered. For example, if I make a habit of porn and as a result of that habit, I am influenced into getting into child pornography and eventually choose to rape a child, nobody forced me to get into porn in the first place.

Same thing with violence, even if the video game violence helped change my attitude towards life and influenced me to take a more violent attitude in life and eventually, because of my attitude, I do something horribly violent. I'm still responsible for that violence, because nobody but me choose to play certain video games.

As I said before, even if you came from an environment that influenced your behaviour badly, you're still responsible for what you do.

I've personally stayed away from excessively violent games, like games that show blood, because I believe we are influenced by what we choose to do.

[The Overlord]

You humanists really like to simplify things, don't you?

Whatever a person does, he's responsible no matter what.

However, nobody forces anybody to pick up or create habits that can further infuence their behaviour in ways that they never considered. For example, if I make a habit of porn and as a result of that habit, I am influenced into getting into child pornography and eventually choose to rape a child, nobody forced me to get into porn in the first place.

Same thing with violence, even if the video game violence helped change my attitude towards life and influenced me to take a more violent attitude in life and eventually, because of my attitude, I do something horribly violent. I'm still responsible for that violence, because nobody but me choose to play certain video games.

As I said before, even if you came from an environment that influenced your behaviour badly, you're still responsible for what you do.

I've personally stayed away from excessively violent games, like games that show blood, because I believe we are influenced by what we choose to do.

Its still BS, people commit violent acts due to their particular violent nature, kids who shoot up schools do because their crazy, not because of video games. I mean if the two kids who shot up Columbine didn't play video games they still would have shot up Columbine because they were neo nazi freaks. If people are influenced by video games they are either can't tell the difference between reality and fanatasy (not the video games fault) or they are weak willed idiots (again not the video games fault). So people who are influenced by video games likely have mental problems in the first place.

You say that these people still "responsible for their actions" but your giving defense lawyers an excuse to try and get clients off, because they will try to shift to the video games, Heaven help us if that happens in court. This just you trying to promote big government again and guess what vidoe games are covered under "freedom of expression".

[War Lord]

Its still BS, people commit violent acts due to their particular violent nature, kids who shoot up schools do because their crazy, not because of video games. I mean if the two kids who shot up Columbine didn't play video games they still would have shot up Columbine because they were neo nazi freaks. If people are influenced by video games they are either can't tell the difference between reality and fanatasy (not the video games fault) or they are weak willed idiots (again not the video games fault). So people who are influenced by video games likely have mental problems in the first place.

You say that these people still "responsible for their actions" but your giving defense lawyers an excuse to try and get clients off, because they will try to shift to the video games, Heaven help us if that happens in court. This just you trying to promote big government again and guess what vidoe games are covered under "freedom of expression".

Defense lawyers will do what they do and don't need my help. It's a fact that the more you do something, the easier it becomes to do. Men who rape almost have always started off viewing pornography. There is a link between what we do in our fantasy lives and what the things we do in real life. I love it when people say, "I play violent video games all the time and I'm not violent." The fact is we havent got to the point of technology where we can differentiate between those strongly affected by their fantasy lives and those who are not. When you provide a means of creating violent scenarios, its available to everybody.

Also, I don't believe in mitigating factors, outside of protecting one's life or another life. If you choose to do something, you have to be willing to pay the penalty.

[The Overlord]

Defense lawyers will do what they do and don't need my help. It's a fact that the more you do something, the easier it becomes to do. Men who rape almost have always started off viewing pornography. There is a link between what we do in our fantasy lives and what the things we do in real life. I love it when people say, "I play violent video games all the time and I'm not violent." The fact is we havent got to the point of technology where we can differentiate between those strongly affected by their fantasy lives and those who are not. When you provide a means of creating violent scenarios, its available to everybody.

Also, I don't believe in mitigating factors, outside of protecting one's life or another life. If you choose to do something, you have to be willing to pay the penalty.

I have known tons people who look porn a lot and none of them have become rapists and I know people who play violent games who are not violent. People who allow porn or vidoe games to influence their life are likely crazy first place, so I don't see how you blame video games or porn for the actions of people who are crazy in the first place.

[amazingfantasy15]

If you make the jump from looking at porn to rape or killing things in a video game to killing people in real life you need to spend the rest of your life in jail, also it'd be good to give said person a vescitime (sp?) so those nutjobs that like to have sex with criminals won't get pregnant.

[Addendum]

Besides, some video games can be cathartic. Instead of committing illegal acts in real life, you can relieve your tension and frustration on animated polygons.

I have no qualms about killing a polygon on my screen.

[Horrorfan]

I have known tons people who look porn a lot and none of them have become rapists and I know people who play violent games who are not violent. People who allow porn or vidoe games to influence their life are likely crazy first place, so I don't see how you blame video games or porn for the actions of people who are crazy in the first place.


Exactly. If one person out of a million who plays videogames turns violent, how can you blame videogames? If 98% of videogames players arent violent in real life, how can you blame videogames on the 2% that are?

The argument falls down. Its like saying everyone who goes to see a violent film will riot and rape as soon as they come out of the theatre.

[War Lord]

I have known tons people who look porn a lot and none of them have become rapists and I know people who play violent games who are not violent. People who allow porn or vidoe games to influence their life are likely crazy first place, so I don't see how you blame video games or porn for the actions of people who are crazy in the first place.

Tons of people are decent people who, unless under the strongest of influences, won't do terribly wrong things. That doesn't remove the fact that there are people, who if it hadn't been for the existence of violent material and instead had nothing but good influences, might not have gone off the deep end and did terrible things.

If you read the biographies of people like Saddaam or Hitler or Stalin or other terrible things, there were influences in their life that led them to become the kind of people they became. Perhaps, had these same people been influenced differently, they might have been different people.

To say that because you weren't influenced (or so you believe) or that the people around you haven't been influenced is like saying that because I am 90 years old and have smoked for years means all the scientific information giving a strong link between smoking and cancer is also bs.

[Addendum]

Hitler became a psychopath because he either 1) wasn't that good of a painter, or 2) was a good painter but lacked the proper positive reinforcement.

The second reason is influenced by a Mike Meyers sketch from SNL, where he was a hyperactive-hypoglycemic 6 year old who is harnessed to a jungle gym

[The Overlord]

Tons of people are decent people who, unless under the strongest of influences, won't do terribly wrong things. That doesn't remove the fact that there are people, who if it hadn't been for the existence of violent material and instead had nothing but good influences, might not have gone off the deep end and did terrible things.

If you read the biographies of people like Saddaam or Hitler or Stalin or other terrible things, there were influences in their life that led them to become the kind of people they became. Perhaps, had these same people been influenced differently, they might have been different people.

To say that because you weren't influenced (or so you believe) or that the people around you haven't been influenced is like saying that because I am 90 years old and have smoked for years means all the scientific information giving a strong link between smoking and cancer is also bs.

First Saddam, Hitler and Stalin were all psychopaths and second they all had enviromental influences that were far more dire than vidoe games. Unless you can show me some people who were completely well adjusted before playing violent video games and then became violent afterward, yor theory has no basis. Just because your a psychopath and thus can't handle violent video games, doesn't mean that well adjusted people will be effected by video games.

[War Lord]

First Saddam, Hitler and Stalin were all psychopaths and second they all had enviromental influences that were far more dire than vidoe games. Unless you can show me some people who were completely well adjusted before playing violent video games and then became violent afterward, yor theory has no basis. Just because your a psychopath and thus can't handle violent video games, doesn't mean that well adjusted people will be effected by video games.

A person is affected by everything they do and say and think. "By beholding, you become changed."

If your looking at video games as a sole influence, you're not going to find it. However, the scientific data is in and there is a corallation affect between violent video games and an increase of violent thoughts.

[The Overlord]

A person is affected by everything they do and say and think. "By beholding, you become changed."

If your looking at video games as a sole influence, you're not going to find it. However, the scientific data is in and there is a corallation affect between violent video games and an increase of violent thoughts.

So video games make naturally violent people, more likely to be violent? So what, these people are naturally violent, they could be set off anything. Anyone who is well adjusted can easily handle video game violence, only people with mental problems couldn't and those types of people are like time bombs, anything can set them off. The fact is these psychos will in all likelyhood be violent regardless, so censoring video games will do nothing to stop that, so stop trying to crush freedom of expression to promote your personal moral crusade.

[War Lord]

So video games make naturally violent people, more likely to be violent? So what, these people are naturally violent, they could be set off anything. Anyone who is well adjusted can easily handle video game violence, only people with mental problems couldn't and those types of people are like time bombs, anything can set them off. The fact is these psychos will in all likelyhood be violent regardless, so censoring video games will do nothing to stop that, so stop trying to crush freedom of expression to promote your personal moral crusade.

It can also contribute to changing people's attitude and make them less sympathetic to other's hurts.

I'm not promoting anything. I didn't even create the topic, so don't get so defensive. I just simply added what has been noted in scientific studies.

[Horrorfan]

It can also contribute to changing people's attitude and make them less sympathetic to other's hurts.

I'm not promoting anything. I didn't even create the topic, so don't get so defensive. I just simply added what has been noted in scientific studies.

So when is the 98% 0r 99% of gamers who don't shoot up schools or rape people going to turn? Should we build bunkers and stock up on water? Because that's gonna be ALOT of violent people out there! (As Ron Burgendy said, 'it's science.')

[The Overlord]

It can also contribute to changing people's attitude and make them less sympathetic to other's hurts.

I'm not promoting anything. I didn't even create the topic, so don't get so defensive. I just simply added what has been noted in scientific studies.

It has no major effect on normal people, it would only effect psychopaths like you.

[War Lord]

So when is the 98% 0r 99% of gamers who don't shoot up schools or rape people going to turn? Should we build bunkers and stock up on water? Because that's gonna be ALOT of violent people out there! (As Ron Burgendy said, 'it's science.')

I'm not advocating any opinion on this subject.

I never said that violent video games should be banned or not banned.

[War Lord]

It has no major effect on normal people, it would only effect psychopaths like you.

It affects everybody. It may be small for most people, but they are affected.

For example, why play violent video games at all?

You might say that because you enjoy it. Why do you enjoy it?

Why can't you enjoy video games that aren't violent?

The most common response I get to that question is that non-violent video games are boring.

If that is your thinking, you have been affected as well, even if you can't admit it.

[The Overlord]

It affects everybody. It may be small for most people, but they are affected.

For example, why play violent video games at all?

You might say that because you enjoy it. Why do you enjoy it?

Why can't you enjoy video games that aren't violent?

The most common response I get to that question is that non-violent video games are boring.

If that is your thinking, you have been affected as well, even if you can't admit it.

BS, people can enjoy violent fiction without enjoying violenence in real life. Lots books contain violence, but people could read them without becomming violent people. Violence is a part of human history ands thus an important device for story telling purposes. People who can tell the difference between fanatasy and reality can enjoy violent fiction, but than leave that in the realm of fanasty and dislike violence in real life. You maybe happy watching nothing but the care Bears, I enjoy something a little more edgey.

[Addendum]

I play games with a story.

The Hitman series has interested me, since I've wondered what it would be like to be a professional hitman. In the video game, I don't have to face the repurcussions of taking another life in real life. It's just polygons.

I like the Metal Gear series because of the stealthy nature of the game.

I enjoy the GTA series since it's a much better method of relieving road rage, than doing so in real life. The story may be weak, but the open-ended nature of the series is a key aspect of the series that has hooked me.

Besides, there's only a certain amount of golden coins/rings/orbs/boxes/plants before you say "I need more"

[War Lord]

I play games with a story.

The Hitman series has interested me, since I've wondered what it would be like to be a professional hitman. In the video game, I don't have to face the repurcussions of taking another life in real life. It's just polygons.

I like the Metal Gear series because of the stealthy nature of the game.

I enjoy the GTA series since it's a much better method of relieving road rage, than doing so in real life. The story may be weak, but the open-ended nature of the series is a key aspect of the series that has hooked me.

Besides, there's only a certain amount of golden coins/rings/orbs/boxes/plants before you say "I need more"

Why would you even have a fantasy about being a hitman, if it weren't for the fact that, on some level or some way, you've been compromised to think violent thoughts? The fact that you think you might suffer road rage, if you couldn't play that scenario in a video game only underscores my point that when you expose yourself to violence willingly, it orients you towards more violence.

Your comment about saying you need more because less violent video games becomes boring only again proves my point about exposing yourself to violence willingly, it changes you.

It's like porn, the more you've exposed yourself to it and the darker it became, it's very hard to want to go back to the more innocent types of pictures and what not.

[WhatsHisFace]

Who cares? So what if he wants to kill people? If he doesn't do it in real life it's not hurting anyone, or even himself really.

[War Lord]

BS, people can enjoy violent fiction without enjoying violenence in real life. Lots books contain violence, but people could read them without becomming violent people. Violence is a part of human history ands thus an important device for story telling purposes. People who can tell the difference between fanatasy and reality can enjoy violent fiction, but than leave that in the realm of fanasty and dislike violence in real life. You maybe happy watching nothing but the care Bears, I enjoy something a little more edgey.

If you read stories about war and such in the past, most stories really skipped over the very violent parts and dealt with other issues like honour or defending your comrades. They didn't spell out the violence in all its gory details. Our culture at one time supported that. Now any stories that don't spell out the violence explicitly and skip over more valuable parts, isn't read.

Again, when you say that you need an edgy story to be entertained, you're only admitting that you've been compromised as a person. It's not about watching shows about lollipops or clouds. It's about what kind of person you choose to become. Do you want to be a person who celebrates life or celebrates death?

[War Lord]

Who cares? So what if he wants to kill people? If he doesn't do it in real life it's not hurting anyone, or even himself really.

He's hurting himself, on the inside. The more you expose yourself to such things, the more likely you will react towards that way.

[WhatsHisFace]

Do you actually care though? I don't think you do. Why don't we just get back to Michael Moore's weight problem like everyone wants?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/evilpundit/blog/images/michael-moore-fugly.jpg

ROOFLES.

[War Lord]

Do you actually care though? I don't think you do. Why don't we just get back to Michael Moore's weight problem like everyone wants?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/evilpundit/blog/images/michael-moore-fugly.jpg

ROOFLES.

I don't really care. I'm only pointing out that what you choose to do affects you and the effect isn't small when you measure it over a lifetime, if a person is constantly exposed.

[Horrorfan]

Dude, everyone has violent impulses.


IT'S CALLED HUMAN NATURE.

There's also something called 'personal responsibility', where we are supposed to take the consquences of our own actions and not blame everything on Mario Sunshine when we do something like shoot up a school or whatever.


If your argument held any weight, wouldnt ALL gamers become murders and rapists?

[WhatsHisFace]

If I had to play E games all the time, I'd probably punch someone in the gut.

[War Lord]

Dude, everyone has violent impulses.


IT'S CALLED HUMAN NATURE.

There's also something called 'personal responsibility', where we are supposed to take the consquences of our own actions and not blame everything on Mario Sunshine when we do something like shoot up a school or whatever.


If your argument held any weight, wouldnt ALL gamers become murders and rapists?

Everybody does have violent impulses, but how strong it is in your life is affected by the thoughts you hold and the actions you choose to do.

I haven't taken personal responsibility away from anybody. I only explained the fact that whatever a person chooses to do, can change their nature to reflect their chosen activities. That's a fact, deal with it.

[Horrorfan]

Everybody does have violent impulses, but how strong it is in your life is affected by the thoughts you hold and the actions you choose to do.

I haven't taken personal responsibility away from anybody. I only explained the fact that whatever a person chooses to do, can change their nature to reflect their chosen activities. That's a fact, deal with it.

Here's a fact you need to deal with.

At the very least, 95% of gamers (and that's being generous to your argument) don't turn around and comit horrible crimes that they have seen in videogames. Ditto movie goers.

Fact.

The ones that do are the exception that proves the rule.

[War Lord]

Here's a fact you need to deal with.

At the very least, 95% of gamers (and that's being generous to your argument) don't turn around and comit horrible crimes that they have seen in videogames. Ditto movie goers.

Fact.

The ones that do are the exception that proves the rule.

The fact that they aren't committing mass murder does not mean that they haven't been changed. A generation ago, if the violent video games had been produced, few would have bought it because celebrating violence in the most explicit way was looked down upon by the better people in society. Today, you're looked upon as weird or a backwards prude if you avoid these games. That should tell you how our society has changed for the lesser, which means individually, we have been changed for the lesser.

You might think that such a change is minor in nature and inconsequential, but it is affecting us in ways that we don't know. For example, there is a reason why UFC are thriving in general society today, whereas a generation ago, those kinds of events were either not done or done in dark and seedy places where normal people generally avoided.

You might be saying, "Big deal", nobody gets really hurt in those competitions and I can only say, "Not yet," because at some point people are going to think that not seeing mass blood or broken limbs makes those competitions boring and they are going to demand such things as you are demanding in your video games today.

[WhatsHisFace]

The fact that they aren't committing mass murder does not mean that they haven't been changed. A generation ago, if the violent video games had been produced, few would have bought it because celebrating violence in the most explicit way was looked down upon by the better people in society. Today, you're looked upon as weird or a backwards prude if you avoid these games. That should tell you how our society has changed for the lesser, which means individually, we have been changed for the lesser.
A generation ago parents beat their kids, men slapped their wives, black people couldn't vote (either could women (thank god)) and there was practiced eugenics.

We sure have changed for the lesser.

You might think that such a change is minor in nature and inconsequential, but it is affecting us in ways that we don't know. For example, there is a reason why UFC are thriving in general society today, whereas a generation ago, those kinds of events were either not done or done in dark and seedy places where normal people generally avoided.
The UFC is also awesome. Do you think countries without videogames don't have fights? How about Thailand, home to some of the most brutal boxers out there. Kids don't have Halo there, but people actually die in the ring.

You might be saying, "Big deal", nobody gets really hurt in those competitions and I can only say, "Not yet," because at some point people are going to think that not seeing mass blood or broken limbs makes those competitions boring and they are going to demand such things as you are demanding in your video games today.
And that's when people refuse to compete, if they're smart. If they're stupid, they deserve to learn the hard way.

[War Lord]

A generation ago parents beat their kids, men slapped their wives, black people couldn't vote (either could women (thank god)) and there was practiced eugenics.

We sure have changed for the lesser.

I'm talking about our personal behaviours and values. A generation ago, men did not routinely beat their wives. If they did so, the wive's brothers would have beat the absolute crap out of them. Whatever unfortunate societal practices existed back then, did not remove the fact that people didn't think celebrating gory violence was cool.


The UFC is also awesome. Do you think countries without videogames don't have fights? How about Thailand, home to some of the most brutal boxers out there. Kids don't have Halo there, but people actually die in the ring.

As I said, a generation ago, people wouldn't have celebrated it and your statement has proven my point that our society has gone downhill. I'm talking about our society, not societies that were already barbaric in their beliefs. Whatever faults Western societies have and have had doesn't compare with the faults of every other society.

And that's when people refuse to compete, if they're smart. If they're stupid, they deserve to learn the hard way.

The creators of such competitions will just up the purse until they get enough willing competitors and spectators willing to watch it.

[WhatsHisFace]

I'm talking about our personal behaviours and values. A generation ago, men did not routinely beat their wives. If they did so, the wive's brothers would have beat the absolute crap out of them. Whatever unfortunate societal practices existed back then, did not remove the fact that people didn't think celebrating gory violence was cool.[quote]
I said slap, not beat. Beatings were saved for the kids. These are facts.

[QUOTE]As I said, a generation ago, people wouldn't have celebrated it and your statement has proven my point that our society has gone downhill. I'm talking about our society, not societies that were already barbaric in their beliefs. Whatever faults Western societies have and have had doesn't compare with the faults of every other society.
No, they would have. Why do you think they had dog-fights and other lechery outlawed only a few decades back? And we weren't barbaric? Ever read a history book? After burning each other alive in witch trials, we killed almost every last indian, and that was before slavery really took off.


The creators of such competitions will just up the purse until they get enough willing competitors and spectators willing to watch it.
Yeah, and then not enough people will attend and it will crash before the first year. That's as good of a prediction as holodecks.

[War Lord]

I said slap, not beat. Beatings were saved for the kids. These are facts.

It was considered a virtue to never hit a woman. It wasn't a societal value to hit a woman. It was considered beneath a real gentleman to beat women in any way.

No, they would have. Why do you think they had dog-fights and other lechery outlawed only a few decades back? And we weren't barbaric? Ever read a history book? After burning each other alive in witch trials, we killed almost every last indian, and that was before slavery really took off.

I'm not saying that terrible things didn't happen, but there were activities that were considered beneath good society to participate in and other activities that were considered uplifting. Things like pool or dog fights or other such things were considered beneath high society to participate in. The fact that such activities still happened doesn't remove how the good parts of society felt about them.

As far as history goes, does any historian say that those terrible things were good things? The witch trials, as regrettable as it is, only supports my statement because they were attempting to accomplish a greater good.

And slavery, few thought it to be a good thing. There were societies set up back in the early 1700's to try and combat it and even by 1800, most people were at ill ease with the subject of slavery and did not celebrate its existence.

Yeah, and then not enough people will attend and it will crash before the first year. That's as good of a prediction as holodecks.

I'd be willing to bet that it won't be too long before injuries happen and it will be celebrated by those who watch such fights.

[The Overlord]

He's hurting himself, on the inside. The more you expose yourself to such things, the more likely you will react towards that way.

Your a psychopath, so your not really in the position to comment on other people's emotional states.

[TheCardPlayer]

It affects everybody. It may be small for most people, but they are affected.

For example, why play violent video games at all?

You might say that because you enjoy it. Why do you enjoy it?

Why can't you enjoy video games that aren't violent?

The most common response I get to that question is that non-violent video games are boring.

If that is your thinking, you have been affected as well, even if you can't admit it.I love Mario 64 and it isn't violent. And I enjoy GTA and it's violent. I don't like it because of the violence, I like it because of the gameplay.

Is it my fault that the best games usually have violence in them? Your argument is ridiculous.

[The Overlord]

If you read stories about war and such in the past, most stories really skipped over the very violent parts and dealt with other issues like honour or defending your comrades. They didn't spell out the violence in all its gory details. Our culture at one time supported that. Now any stories that don't spell out the violence explicitly and skip over more valuable parts, isn't read.

Again, when you say that you need an edgy story to be entertained, you're only admitting that you've been compromised as a person. It's not about watching shows about lollipops or clouds. It's about what kind of person you choose to become. Do you want to be a person who celebrates life or celebrates death?

The Bible wouldn't have sold as well if Jesus and the Romans had a tea party at the end. I watch Law & Order SVU all the time and I didn't become a sex offender. This just another attempt to promote your idealized, collectivist, 1950s reactionary lifestyle that you think everyone else should be living, which is ironic considering you say you promote individualism. I actually enjoy a wide array of entertainment, some violent and some not, because I like a lot of different stories. Besides your a psychopath and from your quote, it seems that like make jokes about the suffereing, so how dare you say you have superior emotional foundations to everyone of the well adjusted people on this thread.

[WhatsHisFace]

WarLord/Jonty needs to stop talking right now.

[The Overlord]

It was considered a virtue to never hit a woman. It wasn't a societal value to hit a woman. It was considered beneath a real gentleman to beat women in any way.



I'm not saying that terrible things didn't happen, but there were activities that were considered beneath good society to participate in and other activities that were considered uplifting. Things like pool or dog fights or other such things were considered beneath high society to participate in. The fact that such activities still happened doesn't remove how the good parts of society felt about them.

As far as history goes, does any historian say that those terrible things were good things? The witch trials, as regrettable as it is, only supports my statement because they were attempting to accomplish a greater good.

And slavery, few thought it to be a good thing. There were societies set up back in the early 1700's to try and combat it and even by 1800, most people were at ill ease with the subject of slavery and did not celebrate its existence.



I'd be willing to bet that it won't be too long before injuries happen and it will be celebrated by those who watch such fights.

Your confusing thought with action, actions matter, thoughts do not. Society may have thought slavery was bad, but they didn't do anything about till after the civil war. Likewise perhaps some people who play video games engage in violent thoughts, but so what, they do it in the privacy of their own minds, only a very small minority of people who play video games are violent and that's due to their own mental problems.

[Horrorfan]

WarLord/Jonty needs to stop talking right now.
I'll second that. What a moron.

[Addendum]

Why would you even have a fantasy about being a hitman, if it weren't for the fact that, on some level or some way, you've been compromised to think violent thoughts? The fact that you think you might suffer road rage, if you couldn't play that scenario in a video game only underscores my point that when you expose yourself to violence willingly, it orients you towards more violence.

Your comment about saying you need more because less violent video games becomes boring only again proves my point about exposing yourself to violence willingly, it changes you.

It's like porn, the more you've exposed yourself to it and the darker it became, it's very hard to want to go back to the more innocent types of pictures and what not.

Hitmen are paid considerably well, if used by the Mafia. It would pay off my student loans in a heartbeat. However: 1) Memphis is a virtual unknown to the Mafia, 2) I'm still learning to shoot firearms, 3) I get bored easily so random thoughts like "I wonder what it would be like being a Hitman" or "I wonder what it would feel like sucking on vacuum in orbit around Jupiter" have a tendency to pop up, 4) I lack the motivation and the drive to get into top physical shape.

As to the road rage, venting your frustration at a driver on the road is a high risk situation. I'm not going to get killed because I flip off a driver that cut me off, or fails to understand that the speed limit signs means "Drive at this speed, not up to it." Since no one gets killed in a video game, expect for a random grouping of pixels on your screen, which are artfully rendered polygons, the life-threatening aspect is considerably less than in real life.

You failed to grasp what I meant when I want more in games. I've played loads of platformers. The only ones I like are the Mega Man series (Classic, X, and I'm getting into the Zero games). There is a certain amount of skill and brainwork involved in determining the best order to fight the robot masters. Whereas, the only skill involved in most platform games is: collecting a certain amount of stars/gold coins/rings/orbs/boxes or whatever. There is no depth.

I don't focus on the violence in games. It's one aspect that does exist in games, however for me it's a minor aspect. I focus more on plot and unlockables.

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

I'll second that. What a moron.

Ill umm.. THIRD that motion ...?


I totally agree with the guy that mention games as catharsis...

[XwolverineX]

http://www.t-shirt.cc/references/Schools/drug%20programs/Ypsilanti%20Public%20Schools%20-%20Violence-weapons.jpg

[XwolverineX]

But seriously let War Lord have an opinion without getting flamed to ****.

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

/\ /\ /\ This better be a joke :)

(I meant the violence poster, not War Lord and flaming)



Everyone's entitled to their opinion, it just seems a little close minded or old fashioned for this new millenium....

BTW Warlord, what games do you play if you don't advocate violence? Just interested...

[XwolverineX]

/\ /\ /\ This better be a joke :)

(I meant the violence poster, not War Lord and flaming)



Everyone's entitled to their opinion, it just seems a little close minded or old fashioned for this new millenium....

BTW Warlord, what games do you play if you don't advocate violence? Just interested...


It was a joke, lol.

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

I knew.. I was just just messin witcha..

[WhatsHisFace]

XwolverineX shouldn't post anymore.

[Immortalfire]

As if he's really the first person to say this.

[War Lord]

/\ /\ /\ This better be a joke :)

(I meant the violence poster, not War Lord and flaming)



Everyone's entitled to their opinion, it just seems a little close minded or old fashioned for this new millenium....

BTW Warlord, what games do you play if you don't advocate violence? Just interested...

Mostly fanatasy games, where the object is to defeat evil. and racing games (to which I'm still not very good).

If the game has a gore control, I keep the gore minimized.

[Addendum]

Because red pixels are so damaging to the psyche :rolleyes: