Well....this is intresting? (Joker news)

[Pythenis]

Big Joker Scoop?
Author: Jett
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 5:44 AM CENTRAL TIME: Jett here. The following comes in from a LONGTIME source who has provided BOF with much dead on info regarding BATMAN in the past. Some news has been revealed/broken here at BOF (like Ken Watanabe and Katie Holme's casting in BEGINS); some has been kept secret to keep this source anonymous. This is a rather lengthy report, but it clears up a lot of stuff and reveals the Joker info I alluded to cryptically last week. (One note regarding news from BOF: If you copy and paste this on message boards -- cool; But PLEASE include a link back to BOF. Thank you.) Anyway, here goes...

I first slipped you information many years ago that centred on the possible casting of Jude Law as Bruce Wayne/Batman. This was long before Christopher Nolan’s involvement with the franchise. Law’s name was also thrown about re: Petersen’s BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN project. Now it seems we have come full circle. Your site has mentioned Law as a candidate for Harvey Dent. This is incorrect. Law is being [considered for The Joker]. He is a WB suggestion (one of a select few). WB do not have a “wish list,” but WB has narrowed down a couple of names for Nolan etc. to consider later this year.

As far as I know, Paul Bettany is not on this list. His name holds some appeal with a section of the Batman fan base, but the idea is not exactly setting WB’s world on fire. Too many creepy villain roles; been there, done that. He was never really in this race, as your site intimated recently – well done ;)

Lachy Hulme is on this list. He is not the “frontrunner” as many have suggested; he is the “dark horse.” WB is concerned about his lack of profile in the US, but they are keeping a very close eye on him. Hulme’s lack of profile could be remedied with two projects, MACBETH and an Australian comedy called BOYTOWN. The buzz for both films is very strong. Cillian Murphy landed his casting call for BATMAN BEGINS off the career boost 28 DAYS LATER gave him; likewise, Hulme only needs for one of these films to click. FYI: Hulme HAS met with the producers. He is the only actor not contracted for sequels to have done so.

I can confirm that The Joker role is a small and mysterious one in the sequel. It will be nothing like the Jack Nicholson-style showcase that the previous Joker provided.

Reps for Sam Rockwell were pursuing the role in the hope that this Joker would be on par with the 1989 Joker, but soon discovered otherwise. Hugh Jackman also expressed interest in The Joker. Upon learning the size of the role he explored the Harvey Dent option instead. Due to Jackman’s association with Marvel, however, you can probably count him out of either role in the BATMAN BEGINS sequel. Probably.

Hugo Weaving is also on the WB Casting list; Johnny Depp is not. Guy Pearce has never been discussed for any role in the sequel; neither has Robin Williams.

The other issue perplexing WB is Katie Holmes. I can’t confirm whether she will be in the sequel or not. This is not due to whether she was weak in BATMAN BEGINS; the consensus at WB is that Holmes delivered a fine performance. The issue is, what to do with her character? That is a problem for Jonah and Chris to resolve.

[Macphisto]

http://batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html (Best to also provide a link)

This news is indeed very interesting.

'I can confirm that The Joker role is a small and mysterious one in the sequel. It will be nothing like the Jack Nicholson-style showcase that the previous Joker provided.'

This sounds terrific. Have the joker lurk in the shadows, pulling a few strings, and then BAM! The big reveal at the end. Well, that's how I hope things play out...

[warren_sparta27]

kool, go Hulme.
but the Jokers role small...? i thought he would be the main villian?

[Qui Gon Ducard]

How would it have been if at the end of BEGINS, there had been no Joker hint, then in this there was a person pulling the strings etc and like macphisto said Bam the big reveal at the end. If Nolan and co could have kept the whole Mr J thing under wraps and you sat there watching a film in which you were waiting for say...Harvey to become two face and them up pops Mr J how mind f*****g would that have been? I would have loved that...

[The Fallen]

Bettany is out eh? Stormin Norman's gonna pitch a fit! Looks as though Hulme, Law and Weaving are the main Joker candidates now. The thing that's got me was the 'small, mysterious role' bit. I like this idea, it's a BATMAN movie, so it should be about Batman.

From reading this, I'd say Law may get the part, but who knows?

[Batman1939]

what if Jett is wrong and he has a large role but obviously not like Nicholsons because B89 was basically Jokers origin story not Batmans. I Dont want Joker to have a huge role though. just like say in between scarecrows and ra's al ghuls.

[trustyside-kick]

Whoa. Bettany not on list and Hulme on the list? Meh.

[Rynan]

This is interesting news. I wonder how small of a role The Joker really has. I mean is it Zsasz small or Kroenen small. Or Scarecrow small? What is small in their sense? It's a bit perplexing, but then again, it's Hollywood news. They're always vague.

["V"]

Jude Law and a small role for the Joker? Jude Law is such an overrated actor, gaining most of his recognition for cheating on his partners and being pictured in Hello magazine, the balding pretty boy! :mad: Although i'm not fully convinced Bettany is the best choice for Joker he's far more suited to the role than Jude Law, what a farce.

As for the Joker having a small role, this disappoints me. How can they drop in that tease at the end of Begins and have him hide in the shadows? While I don't think we should have a repeat of Joker 89 I still want to see him for around 40 minutes of the movie. I wouldn't mind a slow build up to his intro maybe, like "Man who laughs" we just see the crime scenes and then he reveals himself in dramatic fashion. But if we only see him for a small portion of the movie I will be disappointed.

A small role for Joker raises another question who will be the main villain? And if this means Joker will have a bigger role in the third film rather than the second then what will become of the Two Face arc? And another point, a small role for the Joker might see the bigger actors turn it down so it falls to someone like Hulme, or it will see a bigger actor take it with Joker's screen time being extended.

Jude Law? :mad:

[trustyside-kick]

This is interesting news. I wonder how small of a role The Joker really has. I mean is it Zsasz small or Kroenen small. Or Scarecrow small? What is small in their sense? It's a bit perplexing, but then again, it's Hollywood news. They're always vague.

It would suck if it were Zsasz small. If it is going to be a "small" role it should be bigger than Scarecrow's at least.

[ultimatefan]

Well, this is interesting to say the least. Remember, Nolan doesn´t want the new franchise to feel like the old one, to make a popular character like Joker a "Keyser Sose" shadowy villain would be a bold move, but Nolan´s not known for running away from bold moves... It always comes down to the story. Scarecrow had a relatively small rone in Begins, but he served the story pretty well.

The candidates... I don´t think Bettany not being on the list necessarily pulls him out of the reign of possibilities. According to the report itself, Joker´s gonna be whoever Nolan wants. I remember lotsa early reports on Begins where Bale was not considered a strong candidate for the role... Law, Weaving are high profile actors and they´d quite likely deliver the role, but like the report said, it´s just suggestions from the studio, and Nolan apparently prefers an unknown. I never had a problem with Hulme, but his fate will depend on his upcoming movies - if you support him, go see them...

The Jackman bit was interesting cuz he thought the Joker role was small and persued Dent instead... Does it mean Dent has a larger role in the sequel than Joker? Intriguing.

[ultimatefan]

Jude Law and a small role for the Joker? Jude Law is such an overrated actor, gaining most of his recognition for cheating on his partners and being pictured in Hello magazine, the balding pretty boy! :mad: Although i'm not fully convinced Bettany is the best choice for Joker he's far more suited to the role than Jude Law, what a farce.

As for the Joker having a small role, this disappoints me. How can they drop in that tease at the end of Begins and have him hide in the shadows? While I don't think we should have a repeat of Joker 89 I still want to see him for around 40 minutes of the movie. I wouldn't mind a slow build up to his intro maybe, like "Man who laughs" we just see the crime scenes and then he reveals himself in dramatic fashion. But if we only see him for a small portion of the movie I will be disappointed.

A small role for Joker raises another question who will be the main villain? And if this means Joker will have a bigger role in the third film rather than the second then what will become of the Two Face arc? And another point, a small role for the Joker might see the bigger actors turn it down so it falls to someone like Hulme, or it will see a bigger actor take it with Joker's screen time being extended.

Jude Law? :mad:

Remember that the movie will have more than one sequel and part II is supposed to be pretty tied to part III, so Joker could be in both movies and have a larger role in part III.

[wikum]

I'm slightly sad that it's over for Bettany by the looks of things but I think Law, Hulme and Weaving could all play The Joker.

When the guy says the role is small, it's not gonna be as big as B89. I would imagine he has around 15-30 mins of screentime in the whole film. In B89 The Joker was in the film for almost half of it in one form or another. So I would expect The Joker in this new film to have maybe 5 or 6 scenes with maybe one or two of them being major scenes.

Sounds like they got it perfect if I'm right.

[Equinox]

I'm slightly sad that it's over for Bettany by the looks of things but I think Law, Hulme and Weaving could all play The Joker.

When the guy says the role is small, it's not gonna be as big as B89. I would imagine he has around 15-30 mins of screentime in the whole film. In B89 The Joker was in the film for almost half of it in one form or another. So I would expect The Joker in this new film to have maybe 5 or 6 scenes with maybe one or two of them being major scenes.

Sounds like they got it perfect if I'm right.

If I remember right, I think the Batman had just about 30mins of screentime in B89 :down

[trustyside-kick]

I'm slightly sad that it's over for Bettany by the looks of things but I think Law, Hulme and Weaving could all play The Joker.

When the guy says the role is small, it's not gonna be as big as B89. I would imagine he has around 15-30 mins of screentime in the whole film. In B89 The Joker was in the film for almost half of it in one form or another. So I would expect The Joker in this new film to have maybe 5 or 6 scenes with maybe one or two of them being major scenes.

Sounds like they got it perfect if I'm right.

With it being down to Law, Hulme and Weaving no way in hell do I see Weaving as the Joker...and Law I don't know...so for me it is a dead give away that Hulme will be Joker which I am ok with.

[Rynan]

Post Rynan cannot delete!

[ultimatefan]

If I remember right, I think the Batman had just about 30mins of screentime in B89 :down
I made a rough screen time account of 89 and, counting both Bruce Wayne and Batman time and Jack Napier and Joker time - not counting their scenes together -, Jack Nicholson has a bit more screen time than Keaton.

[El Payaso]

If I remember right, I think the Batman had just about 30mins of screentime in B89 :down

And it wasn't much larger in Begins.

[ultimatefan]

And it wasn't much larger in Begins.
Maybe, but Bruce Wayne/Batman appeared a lot more than any villain in the movie.

[Milkman95]

I like this - I'm rooting for Hugo to get the role, he could pull off a pretty scary Joker I believe.

With speculation being that Harvey Dent, Black Mask, Boss Maroni, The Penguin, and The Joker are in this film of course his role could be smaller, but I'm sure it's the best written one outside of Bruce Wayne - especially if he's got his own agenda and is playing Maroni...........

[El Payaso]

Maybe, but Bruce Wayne/Batman appeared a lot more than any villain in the movie.

Bruce Wayne's another story.

[Attikus]

As much as I like Hulme, having Jude Law play Joker (rent Road to Perdition, he plays a sadistic assassin who likes to photograph his kills) and Jackman as Dent would be the best cast ever! And I also agree that Katie Holmes wasn't as bad as everyone on these boards say...she was effective as Brucie's conscience.

Attikus

[Anjow1060]

This is interesting news. I wonder how small of a role The Joker really has. I mean is it Zsasz small or Kroenen small. Or Scarecrow small? What is small in their sense? It's a bit perplexing, but then again, it's Hollywood news. They're always vague.

I've been talking to Jett about that EXACTLY that thing and he says its not gonna be small, as in a "cameo" or even small at all. Just very mysterious. But IMO, thats not the Joker we all know and love from the comics, as we were told we were getting.

[Ronny Shade]

They should put Eccleston on this list dammmit!

[Ronny Shade]

http://batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html (Best to also provide a link)

This news is indeed very interesting.

'I can confirm that The Joker role is a small and mysterious one in the sequel. It will be nothing like the Jack Nicholson-style showcase that the previous Joker provided.'

This sounds terrific. Have the joker lurk in the shadows, pulling a few strings, and then BAM! The big reveal at the end. Well, that's how I hope things play out...

That's a terrible way to do the Joker.

I'm actually getting worried.

[batmaluco]

I like this - I'm rooting for Hugo to get the role, he could pull off a pretty scary Joker I believe.
Final decision will be on Nolan's hands.
I would prefer Paul Bettany, but if Nolan chooses one on this list, I think Hugo Weaving would be a pretty nice choice. :up:

[IloveKittyPryde]

That's a terrible way to do the Joker.

I'm actually getting worried.Exactly Ronnie, thats completely Everything JOKER IS NOT! Lurking in the shadows? WTF? totally out of Character.

[Mee]

It's all rumors and speculation really. BOF has had "trusted sources" come up with stuff like this before only to have it be denied by another source weeks later.

[batmaluco]

It's all rumors and speculation really. BOF has had "trusted sources" come up with stuff like this before only to have it be denied by another source weeks later.
True.

[raybia]

Bettany is out eh? Stormin Norman's gonna pitch a fit! Looks as though Hulme, Law and Weaving are the main Joker candidates now. The thing that's got me was the 'small, mysterious role' bit. I like this idea, it's a BATMAN movie, so it should be about Batman.

From reading this, I'd say Law may get the part, but who knows?


No they aren't main candidates at this point but more so suggestions for Nolan. Its seems when he begins pre-production he'll have a few actions to consider along with his personal fave of Hulme (supposedly) but its really all speculation at this point.

[ToddIsDead]

Cool news. I hope the bit about Bettany is true.

[raybia]

Cool news. I hope the bit about Bettany is true.


Yeah, I was never really crazy about him as the Joker.


Maybe Dick Grayson instead.

[Ronny Shade]

har har

[ToddIsDead]

I really want to see what StorminNorman thinks of this.

[Ronny Shade]

dude he's gonna be livid when he gets back from Orlando

[ToddIsDead]

I know. It'll be great!

[ultimatefan]

I've been talking to Jett about that EXACTLY that thing and he says its not gonna be small, as in a "cameo" or even small at all. Just very mysterious. But IMO, thats not the Joker we all know and love from the comics, as we were told we were getting.
Well, depends on what they mean with mysterious. Joker´s origin, for instance, is supposed to be mysterious.

[L0ngsh0t]

I am interested with same rockwell...i've always liked him, and when i saw his name tossed around in that, i like it, i'm a jude law fan i think he can be a good joker...i am a hugo weaving fan, and i am not sold on him though...i must admit i haven't seen much of Lachey Hulme so i can't make an honest judgment, i will say he does look like a cool joker, but..i don't wanna them to pick him just cause, of his resmblence....


also, i think a mysterious joker, who lurks in the shadows kind of would be cool, i don't want him to be small ether..

they didn't out right say who the bad guys was going to be in Batman Begins till like 7/10 if the way through when liam neeson reveald he is the Ra's al Ghul
i think it could work, it wouldn't be my first choice, i would like joker to be a little bigger, but it works i suppose..

[raybia]

har har



http://members.fortunecity.com/bubbas_barn/jawas.jpg


WHAT?

[Ronny Shade]

lurking in the shadows just makes me think of this :down

http://www.loonyboi.com/blog/archives/the_batman_joker.jpg

[raybia]

...i am a hugo weaving fan,



I like Hugo too but he seems to be getting a little overexposed.

[DV8]

I personally think Law would be a great Joker . . . I'm still rooting for the 'dark horse' though . . .

I don't know whether to be happy or disappointed, though . . . I'm not surprised that they're going to make Joker the complete opposite of BM '89, but I mean what else is Batman going to do? Joker has to throw down!!

I guess all we can do is trust in Nolan . . . which is what I'm going to do . . .

[Two-Face]

Well This is very good news they could do it like Ra's like when they revealed real Ra's near end but in bB2 the killer behind the murders (Joker) is revealed near end of the film.

I rather wait for Nolan to speak about the sequel.

[raybia]

At this point, I'm rooting for Hulme. It seems that a Dark Horse, unknown would be an interesting choice for the Mysterious elusive crown prince of Crime.

[kytrigger]

The only one candidate I'm really not interested in for Joker is Law. I don't know why, I have just never liked him.

I think Sam Rockwell would be interesting, IF he could get over the nice guy side of him. Everything I have seen him in he always seems very non-threatening , even when he is a bad guy (this is actually the only worry I had about Depp as Joker too). Hulme I have seen almost nothing of so I can't really tell, Weaving would be ok i think, and I still want Bettany. Overall, I like most of the "contenders" for the role and I would be satisfied with any of them.

As for the "mysterious" thing, it doesn't just mean that Joker will just be lurking in the shadows the whole time. I would actually like it if Joker was "lurking" doing a killing here and there and then made a big grand entrance at the finale. I think that is Joker's style. If this is an early Joker, then this is his coming out ball. He wants the whole world to know who the Joker is, and he wants it to be set up perfectly.

[Ronny Shade]

The only one candidate I'm really not interested in for Joker is Law. I don't know why, I have just never liked him.

I think Sam Rockwell would be interesting, IF he could get over the nice guy side of him. Everything I have seen him in he always seems very non-threatening , even when he is a bad guy (this is actually the only worry I had about Depp as Joker too). Hulme I have seen almost nothing of so I can't really tell, Weaving would be ok i think, and I still want Bettany. Overall, I like most of the "contenders" for the role and I would be satisfied with any of them.

As for the "mysterious" thing, it doesn't just mean that Joker will just be lurking in the shadows the whole time. I would actually like it if Joker was "lurking" doing a killing here and there and then made a big grand entrance at the finale. I think that is Joker's style. If this is an early Joker, then this is his coming out ball. He wants the whole world to know who the Joker is, and he wants it to be set up perfectly.

I like Law, he's just never creeped me out. He's a nice face. A "safe" guy to me. Oh hey its Jude Law...nice and friendly british guy. he's in like every movie.

of course this could be an advantage when I see him being totally evil it could be awesome.

[ultimatefan]

I like Law, he's just never creeped me out. He's a nice face. A "safe" guy to me. Oh hey its Jude Law...nice and friendly british guy. he's in like every movie.

of course this could be an advantage when I see him being totally evil it could be awesome.
He plays a pretty creepy guy in Road To Perdition. I remember people complaining that Gary Oldman couldn´t play Gordon because he was always the bad guy, and then...

[Two-Face]

I think Law can be good Joker but can he do American accent? Because I never seen him do it like Bale or Oldman.

[Ronny Shade]

I've heard Law try to be american in I Heart Huckabees. He pulls it off for most of the movie, but he slips a lot.

[Equinox]

Jett just added this I guess -

"And when it is all said and done, it's going to be whomever Chris Nolan wants it to be. Oh, don't take "small and mysterious" as "cameo." Stay tuned! "

http://www.batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------

So that definitely means, dont expect the Joker to take up full screen time like B89... Expect it to be more on the lines of Ducard/Ra's in Begins(like all the villains playing along, with Bats as the main character)...Sounds good! :up:

[Two-Face]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! sounds good!!!

[DV8]

I've been talking to Jett about that EXACTLY that thing and he says its not gonna be small, as in a "cameo" or even small at all. Just very mysterious. But IMO, thats not the Joker we all know and love from the comics, as we were told we were getting.

I disagree . . . I think that the Joker being mysterious, and not too over-the-top is exactly the kind of Joker this franchise needs . . . plus Batman is a detective! That gives him more of a chance to flex those muscles

But . . . I want to see the Joker do some hardcore ****!! I don't want him to have a small role!! Possibly less screen time, which doesn't mean that his 'role' is small . . . but if they're saying that his role will be bigger in the 3rd . . .. goddam it! I can't wait that long!!!

[Ronny Shade]

but figure this:

The Joker is an attention whore. It's okay if his motives and origins are mysterious (I prefer that actuallly), but he shouldn't be lurking in shadows and hiding. That's just not like him.

[thedarks0ldier]

Liam Neeson's characters could fit under the "small and mysterious" term

[Two-Face]

I thought Batman would try finding out that was doing these murders that near end of the film Joker is relaved

[DV8]

but figure this:

The Joker is an attention whore. It's okay if his motives and origins are mysterious (I prefer that actuallly), but he shouldn't be lurking in shadows and hiding. That's just not like him.

I hear you . . . and I by no means think that they should detract from the comic-book Joker like they did in BM 89 . . . but just think . . . he could show up, do damage, and then mysteriously vanish like Batman does . . . I think they're really going to do a good job, now that I think about it . . .

[Ronny Shade]

It could work. but not if they make him some depressed guy who laughs about stuff to himself in a straight jacket and hides in the shadows so no one can see him laughing or something.

[Two-Face]

Let's just wait see what the movie will like....

[Ronny Shade]

yes let's

["V"]

I think this could work work if we had a slow build up in the first half, a host of mysterious killings like "Man who laughs". Batman, Gordon and Dent get a tip off about a drug bust on the docks and when they get there find a host of corpses all bearing manic grins. They then work together Long Halloween style to try and find out who is behind this and then in the last half an hour the Joker elaborately reveals himself to the Gotham public and tries to execute his grand scheme.

The only problem with a scenario like this is that the fans will all know it's Joker who would be behind this. It will be interesting to see how "mysterious" his role really is.

[raybia]

Liam Neeson's characters could fit under the "small and mysterious" term


OMG, don't tell me that Joker is really...Ra's:eek: !



THAT WOULD SUCK!

[ultimatefan]

but figure this:

The Joker is an attention whore. It's okay if his motives and origins are mysterious (I prefer that actuallly), but he shouldn't be lurking in shadows and hiding. That's just not like him.
Like I said, wait and see. And remember they´re still working on the script.

[Ronny Shade]

OMG, don't tell me that Joker is really...Ra's:eek: !



THAT WOULD SUCK!
LOL

[thedarks0ldier]

well then you make black mask the culpret, make joker seem like the man to blame, and have dent kill black mask, or reveal dent to be the culpret and not know it (multiple personality dissorder)

[Ronny Shade]

but Dent's MPD isn't dissociative

[Babs Gordon]

generally i'm going to essentially ignore stuff coming off of BOF. sure some things may turn out to be right but there are typically an awful lot of letdowns in the mix. after years of checking out that site i've started to realize that checking the news there, more often than not, doesn't give me that much more. rumors aren't that satisfying in the long run.

if the joker's role is small they are probably referring to screentime. and honestly, i'd prefer it that way. it's more gripping. like batman, the joker is going to evolve as his career in crime progresses. perhaps he's less confident to start, more of a reclusive psychopath who is still developing. there are lots of cool possibilities here.

[Ronny Shade]

I don't want the Joker being reclusive. That's just unforgivable IMO.

[Equinox]

I don't want the Joker being reclusive. That's just unforgivable IMO.

Guys! Nothing has been finalised yet... All these are just rumors... Even the script isnt done yet... Lets be patient and see how it all turns out...:up:

[Babs Gordon]

i don't mean reclusive per se, i just mean operating under the radar for a bit. perhaps unintentionally.

if blatant debauchery is used from start to finish... where's the mystery? sure you can argue it's in his origins but even DC hasn't established where they guy came from. i don't anticipate they'll explore and reveal them in a franchise movie if they do.

i think that's good story telling and is perfectly forgiveable.

[Ronny Shade]

as long as he's not hiding out of fear or shyness, fine.

But of all comicbook villains in all of history the Joker is the most likely to realistically show up and make some big spectacle and announce himself to the world. This has been an overused gesture in the past with villains, but with the Joker (and usually ONLY the joker) it works.

[Babs Gordon]

but in the comic book movie world, don't you think that's getting a bit cliché? i suppose one could argue 'clichés be damned!'... i just want it done well and not 'comic booky' or cheesy. i can't see it done in a non-cheesy way. maybe it's just because i can't think outside the box at the moment.

[Ronny Shade]

but in the comic book movie world, don't you think that's getting a bit cliché? i suppose one could argue 'clichés be damned!'... i just want it done well and not 'comic booky' or cheesy. i can't see it done in a non-cheesy way. maybe it's just because i can't think outside the box at the moment.
It's a cliche because it works. Usually in most cases it totally sucks and is out of character for the villain and creates major cheese, I agree. but Joker is a different story. Take Return of the Joker for example. Works great. I love it.

[Babs Gordon]

yeah... but that's a cartoon. i love ROTJ... but i wouldn't apply anything used in batman beyond to begins. it's like comparing broadway theater with the big screen. everything is bigger, gaudier... because it needs to be.

subtlety is the big screen's friend sometimes.

[Ronny Shade]

Yeah I know.

But subtlety has never been the Joker's friend.

That's all I'm saying

[L0ngsh0t]

I like Hugo too but he seems to be getting a little overexposed.


dude, don't misquote me like that, what i said was, i am a huge Hugo Weaving fan, but i am not sold on him as the joker yet\

[ultimatefan]

Yeah I know.

But subtlety has never been the Joker's friend.

That's all I'm saying
It may also have to do with the interpretation of The Joker... He seems more nihilistic and less flamboyant in The Killing Joke, for instance. One of the best Joker stories is The Laughing Fish, where he kills a buncha people but you never see him at the crime scene, only his schemes to go through Batman and the police and get the victim.

[Ronny Shade]

killing people and plastering smiles all over all the fish in the Harbor isn't very subtle.


I haven't read TKJ

[Two-Face]

It may also have to do with the interpretation of The Joker... He seems more nihilistic and less flamboyant in The Killing Joke, for instance. One of the best Joker stories is The Laughing Fish, where he kills a buncha people but you never see him at the crime scene, only his schemes to go through Batman and the police and get the victim.


That what Brubaker tried to do with "The Man Who Laughs you know Joker kills his victims without appearin expect when he kills TV reporter so he uses TV to kill his victims.

[ultimatefan]

killing people and plastering smiles all over all the fish in the Harbor isn't very subtle.


I haven't read TKJ
I wasn´t talking about subtlety, but about mystery... A lot of the story is about Batman and the police trying to protect a potential victim of The Joker, and they fail because of the Joker´s elaborate plans to kill them, and he´s never present at the crime scene and nobody knows what his next move will be, that certainly feels shadowy and mysterious.

[Ronny Shade]

mystery is fine, but we were talking about subtley, so I thought you were joining that conversation.

Mystery is good.

[ultimatefan]

mystery is fine, but we were talking about subtley, so I thought you were joining that conversation.

Mystery is good.
Well, in all fairness, it never was said the Joker was going to be subtle, only mysterious.

[L0ngsh0t]

i think the reason he is going to be mysterious, is i bet the Maroni familey are the big bad guys

[Ronny Shade]

Well, in all fairness, it never was said the Joker was going to be subtle, only mysterious.
yeah, but (and don't take this as an attack or defense or anything) you said it in response to my comment about subtlety.

[Rynan]

Batman once described The Joker in "The Joker's Five way Revenge" as "a one man plague. He comes, he kills and disappears" and I think that's the way they're going with him. We're going to see more of The Joker's handy-work than the man himself. It'll give us a chance to understand why people fear him, how his killings are near supernatural in efficency, and feel the protagonists frustration to catch a man that seemingly can't be caught. And will add a boost to The Joker making him that much more ominious and sinister.

If I'm right, it's going be something different and awesome.

[Ronny Shade]

Batman once described The Joker in "The Joker's Five way Revenge" as "a one man plague. He comes, he kills and disappears" and I think that's the way they're going with him. We're going to see more of The Joker's handy-work than the man himself. It'll give us a chance to understand why people fear him, how his killings are near supernatural in efficency, and feel the protagonists frustration to catch a man that seemingly can't be caught. And will add a boost to The Joker making him that much more ominious and sinister.

If I'm right, it's going be something different and awesome.
I like that.

[Boom]

Hugo Weaving: For an Alex Ross type of Joker, he'd be fantastic. However, I'm more particular toward a younger Joker this time around. So if I had to make a choice, Weaving wouldn't be high up there. I wouldn't complain if he got it, though.

Jude Law: He's young, he's a superb actor, and he has the look. Excellent casting if you ask me.

Lachy Hulme: Meh. Color me undecided.

A dark and mysterious Joker, with a "small" role? I honestly don't know how to take this. I've always seen the Joker as the kind of sicko who owns up to his actions. When he makes a killing, he wants it to be known. Better yet, he wants people to know it was him that did it. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would "hide in the shadows." I'd have to see how this would pan out. Far too early to make a fair analysis.

[ultimatefan]

yeah, but (and don't take this as an attack or defense or anything) you said it in response to my comment about subtlety.
Fair enough.

[Ronny Shade]

I'm growing to like this Jude Law idea more and more.


I still wish Eccleston was on the list.

[L0ngsh0t]

i agree 100 percent, im a jude law fan, i checked that fan art thing, yeah, i would be thrilled with jude law

was there a sam rockwell bit in that article too? i think he would be interesting

[Two-Face]

Eccleston could be on list if Nolan does not like what WB gives him as short-list he could look somewhere else.

[DV8]

A dark and mysterious Joker, with a "small" role? I honestly don't know how to take this. I've always seen the Joker as the kind of sicko who owns up to his actions. When he makes a killing, he wants it to be known. Better yet, he wants people to know it was him that did it. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would "hide in the shadows." I'd have to see how this would pan out. Far too early to make a fair analysis.

I hear what you're saying, but the words "small" and "mysterious" are wide open . . . I think a lot of people are mistaking small and mysterious for subtle, and we know that at the end of BB, the Joker has a 'taste for theatrics', which indicates that whatever he does in the next one will NOT be subtle . . .

[Boom]

Well, I've been a big supporter of Jude Law for a while now. He used to be my top choice. I still stand by my opinion that Johnny Depp should get it. Between Depp and Law, that would be Boom's wet dream when it comes to the Joker casting.

[Babs Gordon]

blast-- i never got to see the response to my detailed critique of the way BOF is run. it was deleted while i was at the dentist!

i think jude law could make a decent joker. he's got the potential.

[Ronny Shade]

why would someone delete that?

[Babs Gordon]

.... it was a spiderfreddie thread and full of flaming. someone asked me why i had issues with BOF therein and i graciously outlined them for him. i just wanted to see his response. it wasn't done maliciously, it was simply me informing him of my opinion.

nobody really likes minority opinion around these boards anyway.

[Ronny Shade]

I liked your minority opinion

[Babs Gordon]

well i'm glad i'm not alone. BOF has its uses, but I don't worship at its altar like some.

[raybia]

Batman once described The Joker in "The Joker's Five way Revenge" as "a one man plague. He comes, he kills and disappears" and I think that's the way they're going with him. We're going to see more of The Joker's handy-work than the man himself. It'll give us a chance to understand why people fear him, how his killings are near supernatural in efficency, and feel the protagonists frustration to catch a man that seemingly can't be caught. And will add a boost to The Joker making him that much more ominious and sinister.

If I'm right, it's going be something different and awesome.


Damn man, you're good!:up: :)

[ultimatefan]

.... it was a spiderfreddie thread and full of flaming. someone asked me why i had issues with BOF therein and i graciously outlined them for him. i just wanted to see his response. it wasn't done maliciously, it was simply me informing him of my opinion.

nobody really likes minority opinion around these boards anyway.
It´s just the posters you deal with. Some people deal fine with disagreeing opinions, some don´t. When people are rude or disrespectful to your opinions, the best thing to do is ignoring them.

[raybia]

.... it was a spiderfreddie thread and full of flaming. someone asked me why i had issues with BOF therein and i graciously outlined them for him. i just wanted to see his response. it wasn't done maliciously, it was simply me informing him of my opinion.

nobody really likes minority opinion around these boards anyway.


Hey I'm a minority and I haven't had any problems with people accepting my opinion (except on Community.):(

[Babs Gordon]

well i'm not usually on the minority side. typically i try to rise above all the squabble... except when it comes to angelina jolie playing catwoman. it's fun to combat the masses on that one ;)

[ultimatefan]

well i'm glad i'm not alone. BOF has its uses, but I don't worship at its altar like some.
Let me put it this way. Jett is a big Batman fan, and one that, like most of us, has been claiming for years for better, more serious Batman movies. He used to run this simple fan site that eventually grew as WB got further into resurrecting the franchise. People from the studio and current crew do pay attention to what he writes and he does have people who give him inside information, often pretty spot on stuff. No, the site´s not always right, sometimes the sources give conflicting information. There are different interests within the people who´re related in a way or another to these projects, and things change as the projects progress. Jett posts rumors, right, but he´s always clear as to whether it´s talk or there´s more meat to it or it´s a fact. From the websites around, his and SHH are the best places to get information on the Batman movies. He´s not perfect, but I think he does a pretty good job overall.

[Babs Gordon]

I just generally get irritated every time I stroll by the site for all the reasons I had stated before, so I've stopped.

[Babs Gordon]

I would also argue that www.batmans.de is also right up there... if you can understand the German.

[Equinox]

I would also argue that www.batmans.de (http://www.batmans.de) is also right up there... if you can understand the German.

Would be good if you could translate some news, if you find them interesting :) :up:

[Two-Face]

Here is the translated version of the web site Babs linked:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.batmannews.de/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBatman%2B%2Bnews%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

[Rynan]

Seems to be second-hand BOF Jett info...

[Babs Gordon]

batmans.de would often scoop both BOF and SHH before the release of Begins. usually when it came to images especially. there were times when BOF would get their stuff second hand and they would link their site. my german is patchy as i can speak dutch (similar but not similar enough i guess) and i used to scope it out before begins was released.

[javi1024]

i actually like limiting the joker like that. maybe by do that they can they could focus more on the Batman/Gordon/Dent crime team. plus it could reduces the chance of him killing Rachel (good).

im still hoping for Bettany to get the part though. right now hes the only one i can see playing the part.

[Babs Gordon]

^i agree. i'd like to see that trio handle a lot of different criminals in gotham. they're all on the loose and batman's the man who will put them all away :) god DAMN i can't wait :D

[The Chairman]

This news has me worried. I really wanted Bettany, and now he's apparently out meaning I'll have to find a new top choice. At least Hulme's not the frontrunner. I would be disappointed if he were to get it.

[Rynan]

http://www.alvarezwaxmodels.com/Images/Film%20Images/Kuato,George.jpg

Kuato says: "Open your mind.."

[Ronny Shade]

Kuato rulez

[Two-Face]

Ew ew ew......

[The Chairman]

Ew ew ew......

:up:

[Mr. Socko]

No Bettany...

Small role for The Joker....

Good job Nolan...

http://www.swcity.net/yabbse/Smileys/classic/face_plain.gif

[Two-Face]

No Bettany...

Small role for The Joker....

Good job Nolan...

http://www.swcity.net/yabbse/Smileys/classic/face_plain.gif



Oh, don't take "small and mysterious" as "cameo." - BOF.

[Mr. Socko]

I understand the mysterious part

But "small" role?

[Two-Face]

Well it's rumors so hang in there for 2 years!

[Mr. Socko]

So that is only a rumor?

[Macphisto]

Strangely enough, this news (if at all true) really excites me about the sequel. I feel like a hooker watching the navy ships coming into port.

[ToddIsDead]

Most likely, "small" means around thirty minutes of screen time. Just like the villians in the first. Plus, it's rumored that we're getting a ton of different villians and also Dent, so they can't give Joker an hour of screentime.

[neobido9999]

Jude law apparently has a small part

ahem

So yes, having a villain as recognisable as the Joker in a John Doe-ish aprt, revealed properly, presumably, at the end of film three would be a masterstroke.

[Mr. Socko]

Most likely, "small" means around thirty minutes of screen time. Just like the villians in the first. Plus, it's rumored that we're getting a ton of different villians and also Dent, so they can't give Joker an hour of screentime.

If you count up all of Crane's screentime, it equals less then 15 minutes:)

[Two-Face]

So that is only a rumor?

What did you think it was?

[Rynan]

Damn, forgot.

[Mr. Socko]

What did you think it was?

Well Jett is right just about all of the time, isn't he?

[Dark Knight]

Big Joker Scoop?
Author: Jett
Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 5:44 AM CENTRAL TIME: Jett here. The following comes in from a LONGTIME source who has provided BOF with much dead on info regarding BATMAN in the past. Some news has been revealed/broken here at BOF (like Ken Watanabe and Katie Holme's casting in BEGINS); some has been kept secret to keep this source anonymous. This is a rather lengthy report, but it clears up a lot of stuff and reveals the Joker info I alluded to cryptically last week. (One note regarding news from BOF: If you copy and paste this on message boards -- cool; But PLEASE include a link back to BOF. Thank you.) Anyway, here goes...

I first slipped you information many years ago that centred on the possible casting of Jude Law as Bruce Wayne/Batman. This was long before Christopher Nolan’s involvement with the franchise. Law’s name was also thrown about re: Petersen’s BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN project. Now it seems we have come full circle. Your site has mentioned Law as a candidate for Harvey Dent. This is incorrect. Law is being [considered for The Joker]. He is a WB suggestion (one of a select few). WB do not have a “wish list,” but WB has narrowed down a couple of names for Nolan etc. to consider later this year.

As far as I know, Paul Bettany is not on this list. His name holds some appeal with a section of the Batman fan base, but the idea is not exactly setting WB’s world on fire. Too many creepy villain roles; been there, done that. He was never really in this race, as your site intimated recently – well done ;)

Lachy Hulme is on this list. He is not the “frontrunner” as many have suggested; he is the “dark horse.” WB is concerned about his lack of profile in the US, but they are keeping a very close eye on him. Hulme’s lack of profile could be remedied with two projects, MACBETH and an Australian comedy called BOYTOWN. The buzz for both films is very strong. Cillian Murphy landed his casting call for BATMAN BEGINS off the career boost 28 DAYS LATER gave him; likewise, Hulme only needs for one of these films to click. FYI: Hulme HAS met with the producers. He is the only actor not contracted for sequels to have done so.

I can confirm that The Joker role is a small and mysterious one in the sequel. It will be nothing like the Jack Nicholson-style showcase that the previous Joker provided.

Reps for Sam Rockwell were pursuing the role in the hope that this Joker would be on par with the 1989 Joker, but soon discovered otherwise. Hugh Jackman also expressed interest in The Joker. Upon learning the size of the role he explored the Harvey Dent option instead. Due to Jackman’s association with Marvel, however, you can probably count him out of either role in the BATMAN BEGINS sequel. Probably.

Hugo Weaving is also on the WB Casting list; Johnny Depp is not. Guy Pearce has never been discussed for any role in the sequel; neither has Robin Williams.

The other issue perplexing WB is Katie Holmes. I can’t confirm whether she will be in the sequel or not. This is not due to whether she was weak in BATMAN BEGINS; the consensus at WB is that Holmes delivered a fine performance. The issue is, what to do with her character? That is a problem for Jonah and Chris to resolve.


Nice! There shouldn't be a dilemma for Jonah and Chris and WB when it comes to the character of Rachel Dawes. KILL HER OFF....and have the Joker do it! It's easy.....the character of Rachel in the Batman universe is of no substance or consequence. She is a very minor and insignificant character who was made up for BEGINS. The way to make her character significant when it comes to development and learning experiences of a young Batman is have the Joker kill her. Thats it....plain and simple....no if's and's or butts about it.....

I'm glad Robin Williams (too old for Joker) and Hugh Jackman (to many Marvel films..ie X-Men and upcoming solo Wolverine film) are not going to be involved in this film and I don't want Rockwell in this film either. Interesting to hear that Pearce has never been considered in any capacity...nor has Depp. I'm glad Weaving is being considered as a Joker or perhaps Dent candidate...he is a heckuva an actor and he has such an awesome voice! He was great in V for Vendetta!
I could see Law as a Joker candidate....but i'm just curious to see what other "names" have been "suggested" by WB to Nolan. I find it also intriguing that we didn't hear anything about other names that have been thrown about for Dent. Gyllenhaal or Schrieber?? Perhaps those are THE two that are really being considered since they weren't mentioned? Interesting....good stuff from the Jett Man! :up:

[Babs Gordon]

small role could mean a lot of things. i would argue that scarecrow's role was rather small in the last film (meaning screentime) and i would be ok with less than that for the second film.

[Two-Face]

Well Jett is right just about all of the time, isn't he?


Not all the time.:)

[Babs Gordon]

i just feel that if bats, dent and gordon are on the trail of the joker through the whole movie the feeling of "when's he gonna show" will really grip audiences. i'd love that.

[DV8]

small role could mean a lot of things. i would argue that scarecrow's role was rather small in the last film (meaning screentime) and i would be ok with less than that for the second film.

I need way more Joker than that . . . not necessarily 'screen time' . . . cuz one of the greatest movie villains of all time . . . John Doe in S7VEN, had a minimal amount of screen time, but was present throughout the film as the major threat . . .

but we don't have all the Batman origin build up in this one, so that leaves room for enough/more Joker . . .

[The-Night]

i just feel that if bats, dent and gordon are on the trail of the joker through the whole movie the feeling of "when's he gonna show" will really grip audiences. i'd love that.

Ditto:up:

[Mr. Socko]

small role could mean a lot of things. i would argue that scarecrow's role was rather small in the last film (meaning screentime) and i would be ok with less than that for the second film.

That was fine for Crane, but not The Joker.

[DV8]

i just feel that if bats, dent and gordon are on the trail of the joker through the whole movie the feeling of "when's he gonna show" will really grip audiences. i'd love that.

that is a cool idea . . . but I think they could show him a few good times, and just make it creepy as fuack when he's there . . . like you don't know what he's gonna do . . .

[DV8]

That was fine for Crane, but not The Joker.

Xactly:up:

[Babs Gordon]

i really think if they exhaust the joker in the second movie the third will be a let down. if nolan and nolan preoccupy us with other interesting portrayals of rogues gallery villains and a really good story, i don't think we'll be disappointed. i really would rather they save the joker for the grand finale.

[Rynan]

Nice! There shouldn't be a dilemma for Jonah and Chris and WB when it comes to the character of Rachel Dawes. KILL HER OFF....and have the Joker do it! It's easy.....the character of Rachel in the Batman universe is of no substance or consequence. She is a very minor and insignificant character who was made up for BEGINS. The way to make her character significant when it comes to development and learning experiences of a young Batman is have the Joker kill her. Thats it....plain and simple....no if's and's or butts about it.....
I see this my mind's eye:
http://www.kaleobill.com/archives/rabidDog.jpg
Kill her dammit! ****in kill her dead dammit! The Joker ****in needs to ****in kill her ****in dead! With fire and a ****ing crowbar, dammit! Why the hell doesn't Nolan ****in listen to me, dammit! Mother ****er! She should be a dead *****! Dammit! *******s!

[Babs Gordon]

so my point was that let joker have all kinds of attention in the second movie... but keep him a wraith. we don't need to see him for him to be part of the plot. by role i really meant actual screen time.

but really we should save the screen time for #3.

[Babs Gordon]

I see this my mind's eye:
http://www.kaleobill.com/archives/rabidDog.jpg
Kill her dammit! ****in kill her dead dammit! The Joker ****in needs to ****in kill her ****in dead! With fire and a ****ing crowbar, dammit! Why the hell doesn't Nolan ****in listen to me, dammit! Mother ****er! She should be a dead *****! Dammit! *******s!

lol the only problem that i can see with that is that-- sure, in the comics she doesn't even exist. but most of the people who will see begins will never have picked up a batman comic, sad to say. they'll be going "what the hell happened to that chick" because her role was more significant than most of us would like to admit, at least with regard to the amount of attention she was given as a character. to kill her off just like that would be careless storytelling. i'm not saying she can't die, but at least give it a little more attention then "oh yeah... she died" somewhere in between.

[Two-Face]

so my point was that let joker have all kinds of attention in the second movie... but keep him a wraith. we don't need to see him for him to be part of the plot. by role i really meant actual screen time.

but really we should save the screen time for #3.


Yes but how will Two-Face fit in Batman 3?

[Mr. Socko]

i really think if they exhaust the joker in the second movie the third will be a let down. if nolan and nolan preoccupy us with other interesting portrayals of rogues gallery villains and a really good story, i don't think we'll be disappointed. i really would rather they save the joker for the grand finale.

It's all but confirmed that Joker'll be in Batman 2. Rumor suggest Two Face is being saved for the finale, but maybe Joker can return too.

[Mr. Socko]

Yes but how will Two-Face fit in in Batman 3?

Same way more then one villian fit in Batman Begins.

[DV8]

so my point was that let joker have all kinds of attention in the second movie... but keep him a wraith. we don't need to see him for him to be part of the plot. by role i really meant actual screen time.

but really we should save the screen time for #3.

you know, you're totally starting to win me over. Goddam, you broke it down! . . . we're all so excited to see Joker that too much Joker in 2 will be like premature e-joker-lation :D

Plus, they can incorporate more villains that haven't been introduced in previous batflicks . . . i.e. crane and Ra's . . . . and still have the Joker brooding and planning . . . his master plan could BE to turn Harvey over at the end, in a huge media spectacle . . . then escape somehow . . .

[Babs Gordon]

are you suggesting, two face, that there can be only one villain in the last one? sure the three batman films prior to begins butchered the whole "multiple" villains concept, but in truth, batman is fighting the worst of his villains all the time sometimes simultaneously. there's no reason they couldn't both be involved in #3. in fact that would be magnificent if written well.

as far as the joker being in two... sure they've said the joker will be in 2. ok. what does that mean? that he'll be the star? the major villain? i'm sure he'll be the villain of most interest simple because of the character's fame. but will he be the principle villain as far as screentime? i don't think we can predict that yet.

[Rynan]

lol the only problem that i can see with that is that-- sure, in the comics she doesn't even exist. but most of the people who will see begins will never have picked up a batman comic, sad to say. they'll be going "what the hell happened to that chick" because her role was more significant than most of us would like to admit, at least with regard to the amount of attention she was given as a character. to kill her off just like that would be careless storytelling. i'm not saying she can't die, but at least give it a little more attention then "oh yeah... she died" somewhere in between.

Actually, I was making fun of how many times I heard the "Kill Racheal" slogan. It's quite annoying.

[Two-Face]

Same way more then one villian fit in Batman Begins.


I don't want Dr Crane screentime for Two-Face as Ra's was only main villian.

[El Payaso]

Well Jett is right just about all of the time, isn't he?

Not at all.

[DV8]

It's all but confirmed that Joker'll be in Batman 2. Rumor suggest Two Face is being saved for the finale, but maybe Joker can return too.

But in the 3rd, you can have Two-Face after the Joker; Joker after Two-Face; Batman against both of them, and vice versa! A Mexican standoff of sorts throughout the whole thing . . .

it would be the ultimate contradiction to all the lame 'team-ups' of the past schufuacker bat-flicks that mimicked the 60's TV show . . .

[Mr. Socko]

I don't want Dr Crane screentime for Two-Face as Ra's was only main villian.

Same here but this isn't gonna stop Nolan from doing whatever he wants to.

[Two-Face]

True Socko.

[Babs Gordon]

one must also consider that in the second and third installations to the trilogy that less time will be spent focusing on batman developing and more time will be spent focusing on batman's work... i.e. the villains he's trying to cruuuuush like buuuugs. i think the villains will have plenty of screentime all in all.

[Mr. Socko]

Well I hope so

[Clerk]

I'm thinking the reduced screentime thing is no problem. You guys remember Batman The Long Halloween? Joker was in it like 3 times, and in just those three times they managed to make him crucial to the story while at the same time pleasing the reader. No worries.

[mcflytrap]

I need way more Joker than that . . . not necessarily 'screen time' . . . cuz one of the greatest movie villains of all time . . . John Doe in S7VEN, had a minimal amount of screen time, but was present throughout the film as the major threat . . .

but we don't have all the Batman origin build up in this one, so that leaves room for enough/more Joker . . .

Right you are.

[Dark Knight]

I see this my mind's eye:
http://www.kaleobill.com/archives/rabidDog.jpg
Kill her dammit! ****in kill her dead dammit! The Joker ****in needs to ****in kill her ****in dead! With fire and a ****ing crowbar, dammit! Why the hell doesn't Nolan ****in listen to me, dammit! Mother ****er! She should be a dead *****! Dammit! *******s!



LOL....it's like the way the dad says it from Mike Myers film in So I Married an Ax Murderer. "I want her DEED!" Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :down

[Mr. Socko]

I'm thinking the reduced screentime thing is no problem. You guys remember Batman The Long Halloween? Joker was in it like 3 times, and in just those three times they managed to make him crucial to the story while at the same time pleasing the reader. No worries.

Ironically, I hated the Joker in TLH, and it wasn't just his stupid look that I disliked either.

[Dark Knight]

so my point was that let joker have all kinds of attention in the second movie... but keep him a wraith. we don't need to see him for him to be part of the plot. by role i really meant actual screen time.

but really we should save the screen time for #3.


that would be an interesting way to do it. Kinda like John Doe in Seven yes....and then show his actual face in the 2nd half of the movie mostly....but then show some major Joker scenes in the 3rd film. :up:

[Dark Knight]

lol the only problem that i can see with that is that-- sure, in the comics she doesn't even exist. but most of the people who will see begins will never have picked up a batman comic, sad to say. they'll be going "what the hell happened to that chick" because her role was more significant than most of us would like to admit, at least with regard to the amount of attention she was given as a character. to kill her off just like that would be careless storytelling. i'm not saying she can't die, but at least give it a little more attention then "oh yeah... she died" somewhere in between.


i'm not talking about careless storytelling because I consider Chris Nolan a VERY good storyteller.......:confused:

[Dark Knight]

Actually, I was making fun of how many times I heard the "Kill Racheal" slogan. It's quite annoying.


It's quite annoying to have her insignificant character take up screentime that can be used for other WAY more significant characters...THATS annoying.....:mad:

[zer00]

I think I have come to terms with Joker being...well

But I always assumed this was going to happen. Atleast Bettany is gone:o

Just a shame J-man isn't going to getreally any props:(

[Mr. Socko]

i'm not talking about careless storytelling because I consider Chris Nolan a VERY good storyteller.......:confused:

I agree, but a story with very little Joker, is not a story I'll like.

[The Last Meatbag]

now that you mention it, I would love to see Jackman as the Joker.....if only he weren't Wolverine :(

[Dark Knight]

I agree, but a story with very little Joker, is not a story I'll like.


yeah...but i seriously don't think we will have to worry about that. At the end of Jetts report....he says "the Joker role certainly NOT be a cameo type of role." It'll be a strong supporting role.....plus remember....the focus should still remain on Bales Bruce Wayne/Batman.

[zer00]

yeah...but i seriously don't think we will have to worry about that. At the end of Jetts report....he says "the Joker role certainly NOT be a cameo type of role." It'll be a strong supporting role.....plus remember....the focus should still remain on Bales Bruce Wayne/Batman.

And to do that doesn't mean turning him into the Scarecrow or Ra's role of the story.

It's gone good in comics and cartoons for so long. People seem to forget that in those the Joker didn't outshadow Batman unless the story permited it. Like TKJ for example. They're not doing a Joker origin so...he'll just be Joker from the start so...having him have a small role and...more than likely un-joker like to an extent is a shame and not really needed. When it comes to a Batman and Joker story it is very possible to have your cake and eat it too.

[The Fallen]

OK people, I read this news last night and have slept on it.... I even had a dream about the movie and the Joker's "small, mysterious role"....

I like the idea, because quite frankly I'm sick of the good 'ol 'main villian threatens Gotham, Batman saves the day bit'. I can really see Joker being the 'wild card' in the underworld war that will be the man focus of the next movie. I mean look at the cast of characters that look to be in the movie:

Batman
Bruce Wayne (YES! I think they are separate!)
The Joker
Harvey Dent
Gordon
Alfred
Black Mask (or some other new underworld kingpin)
Flass
Loeb
Rachel?
Eearle (sp!)

And there are more rumored like Dr. Arkham, Harley Quinn, Pengin ect.

All those listed characters need development, Batman and Bruce Wayne mostly and Dent will need alot of screen time so we can relate to him and get to know the character, so when to become Two-Face, it's tragic, not just 'OK now he's Two-Face'.

Nolan wants this series to be 'a comic book movie, told in a realistic manner'

I like the idea of Joker being mysterious, It's a NEW take (movie wise) on a classic character. As long as be looks and acts like the Joker we all know and love, that's all that should matter.

Plus it will leave us fanboys/girls wanting MORE! Please do not over expose The Joker!

[Rynan]

I like the gangwar idea. It would be a nice backdrop for The Joker's mysterious machinations.

This was my opinion about on how The Joker would be played in the movie. I'm just repeating myself.

Batman once described The Joker in "The Joker's Five way Revenge" as "a one man plague. He comes, he kills and disappears" and I think that's the way they're going with him. We're going to see more of The Joker's handy-work than the man himself. It'll give us a chance to understand why people fear him, how his killings are near supernatural in efficency, and feel the protagonists frustration to catch a man that seemingly can't be caught. And will add a boost to The Joker making him that much more ominious and sinister.

If I'm right, it's going be something different and awesome.

[The Fallen]

^ Give Rynan a cookie damnit! Me likes that idea!

[Babs Gordon]

I think I have come to terms with Joker being...well

But I always assumed this was going to happen. Atleast Bettany is gone

Just a shame J-man isn't going to getreally any props:(

I wouldn't worry too much zer... I think they are going to do the character justice... I don't think they'd do it any other way honestly. And if, for the sake of story, that means shrouding the joker behind a little mystery for the second movie, I'm in favor.

[zer00]

Eh. I'll wait before I say anything good. Maybe that way I won't be dissapointed.

But dammit this is going to make me into a drug addict.

[Babs Gordon]

as long as you're not doped up for its release :up: :up:

[Hunter Rider]

Joker in a small role ? WOW that blows:(

[Babs Gordon]

what if someone told you that joker would have a principal villain role in 3? would that appease you? ;)

[Hunter Rider]

what if someone told you that joker would have a principal villain role in 3? would that appease you? ;)

Most certainly my dear Babshttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Mr. Socko]

Yes.

This mysterious and small trash is all just a rumor, I don't believe this garbage anymore. Wasn't Jett at first saying that Bettany was the #1 contender for the Joker, now he's saying Bettany is out of the running all together. He changes alot so I can't believe his garbage.

Nolan will do Joker justice, bank on that.

[Rynan]

Joker in a small role ? WOW that blows:(

So much depression in the forums. What the hell did you people expect? Godamn, man. Sheesh, the movie about freakin Batman for crying out loud, no villian is going to have a huge role. The Joker will have a role to play and as I said before, we'll probabley see more of his handiwork than the man himself. Which is going to be awesome and make The Joker mysterious and frightining. It'll be truthful to the comics, so chill.

[The Fallen]

Plus things change in Hollywood. Nolan may write the part as being small, then WB may say 'Damn you Nolan! Make it bigger!" That's when Nolan roundhouse kicks the CEO of WB and Nolan gets what he wants...

[Boom]

Actually, I withdraw my previous comment:

http://gfx.filmweb.pl/p/8389/po.55458.jpghttp://home.hiwaay.net/~oliver/jljoshlucas.jpg

That's my Joker right there.

[Hunter Rider]

So much depression in the forums. What the hell did you people expect? Godamn, man. Sheesh, the movie about freakin Batman for crying out loud, no villian is going to have a huge role. The Joker will have a role to play and as I said before, we'll probabley see more of his handiwork than the man himself. Which is going to be awesome and make The Joker mysterious and frightining. It'll be truthful to the comics, so chill.

No,Joker and Batman is a rivalry built on equal footing,Joker isn't some mob boss that sits in the background
If your happy with this possible small role then fine but don't tell everyone else how they should feel

[Mr. Socko]

Amen Hunter! If Joker has a small stupid role I'll disown this movie. But I hope this is all one big stupid rumor. WB will keep Nolan in line, and WB knows the Joker sells.

[The Fallen]

Hey Boom, who's that?

[Boom]

Hey Boom, who's that?
Josh Lucas, one of my favorite actors.

That first photo. Picture him with chalk white skin, dark red lips, slicked back green hair, and dressed in an Alex Ross tuxedo.

*Drool*

[Babs Gordon]

josh lucas would be great. he'd be a choice out of nowhere... established... but the stuff he's done is not really joker stuff. like romantic comedies. i'd love to see him try on the role for size.

[Babs Gordon]

wasn't he rumored for dent though?

[Boom]

josh lucas would be great. he'd be a choice out of nowhere... established... but the stuff he's done is not really joker stuff. like romantic comedies. i'd love to see him try on the role for size.
I see where you're coming from, but personally I wouldn't be worried about it. The guy has fantastic range as an actor.
wasn't he rumored for dent though?
Yes, but remember, Cillian Murphy originally wanted to be Batman, and was offered Crane instead. Lucas might be offered the Joker role instead of Dent. Just wishful thinking on my part.

[Hunter Rider]

Josh Lucas, one of my favorite actors.

That first photo. Picture him with chalk white skin, dark red lips, slicked back green hair, and dressed in an Alex Ross tuxedo.

*Drool*

You sound like you in love with him Boom :D

He's a decent actor from what ive seen and not typecast so he can play a diverse role without someone labeling him

[The Fallen]

Who knows what's gonna happen? Nolan works in mysterious ways...

[Boom]

You sound like you in love with him Boom :D

He's a decent actor from what ive seen and not typecast so he can play a diverse role without someone labeling him
Well I won't make an avatar, personal title, and signature dedicated to him, unlike another member who shall remain nameless :o.


;)

[Mr. Socko]

Lol. Nolan could change the plans anyday. Pre production for Batman 2 has not even started yet.

[Rynan]

Oop, Missed.

[Mr. Socko]

Well if you want to go that far then why not ever show the Joker, till the last 5 minutes. He can do mysterious murders and they can show his face the last 5 minutes when Batman finds him :rolleyes:

Name a Batman comic where Joker is the main villian and he wasn't focused on or shown as much as Batman...

[Hunter Rider]

. Also, if you remember, the post said not to take "Small and Mysterious" as a cameo. I think he'll have a role, like Scarecrow and Ra's. And I'm content with that.


Thats fine but i and many others are not,Joker is a character who i feel needs to be reintroduced and not some random killer,dialogues between Joker and Batman are part of their rivalry and they need to interact with each other in order to capture that essence

[The Fallen]

I think the 'rivaly' thing can happen. As the Joker does his thing (killing ect), Batman will have a increasingly more difficult time trying to figure out who the Joker is and why he does what he does. Slowly Batman will start to go well... baty and this life as Bruce Wayne will suffer as a concequence. Bruce will be preocupied with the Joker. It can work.

[Mr. Socko]

The Joker is Batman's GREATEST threat. He needs to be shown ALOT in the movie, confrontations with Batman, show him killing other people, fighting Batman, etc

[Hunter Rider]

Well I won't make an avatar, personal title, and signature dedicated to him, unlike another member who shall remain nameless :o.


;)

Heh so no "_______" for Joker Damnit! sigs for you then ?http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[The Fallen]

Well the Joker is rumored to be on trial in the third, so we can assume that Batman catches him, and the Joker will put up a fight...

[Mr. Socko]

Well the Joker is rumored to be on trial in the third, so we can assume that Batman catches him, and the Joker will put up a fight...

I'd much rather The Joker on trial at the end of Batman 2, throws acid in Harveys face, then escapes from Arkham in Batman 3.

[zer00]

So much depression in the forums. What the hell did you people expect? Godamn, man. Sheesh, the movie about freakin Batman for crying out loud, no villian is going to have a huge role. The Joker will have a role to play and as I said before, we'll probabley see more of his handiwork than the man himself. Which is going to be awesome and make The Joker mysterious and frightining. It'll be truthful to the comics, so chill.

Oh look more denial.:up:

[Boom]

Heh so no "_______" for Joker Damnit! sigs for you then ?http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
No. I'll just freely express my desire for him to land the role :(.

[Brian2887]

Man, to me, this sound awesome. Seeing less of Joker makes him so much scarier... John Doe of SE7EN is one of the best villains in film history, and he was barely in it. We saw his handiwork, we felt his presence. Imagine the Joker being a shadow, a laugh in the dark. Build and build until he's in the spotlight.

[Mr. Socko]

THE JOKER is not, I REPEAT, IS NOT John Doe

What might work for 1 person, doesn't mean it'll work for everyone

[Brian2887]

THE JOKER is not, I REPEAT, IS NOT John Doe

What might work for 1 person, doesn't mean it'll work for everyone


And you'd rather he laugh and dance flamboyantly for two movies? What you don't see is scarier than what you do.

[Boom]

I know some of you will hate to hear this, but The Joker will be a MAJOR selling point for this movie.

You may not want him to be in the center of things, but I promise you that the general public does. What do you honestly think the reaction would be if The Joker was kept behind the scenes through most of the film?

Like I said, you may like it, both general folks most likely won't, and the movie isn't just being made for us. WB knows that. I mean good lord, look how much talk is flying around regarding the Joker casting, and we're still MONTHS away from an announcement. The Joker IS the talk of the sequel, and that is the plain truth.

[Boom]

And you'd rather he laugh and dance flamboyantly for two movies?
After brutally murdering someone? Sure. It's sick and twisted.

[Mr. Socko]

And you'd rather he laugh and dance flamboyantly for two movies? What you don't see is scarier than what you do.

I don't care if he laughs and dances FLAMBOYANTLY or whatever kind of way, the guy just needs to be in most of the movie.

After brutally murdering someone? Sure. It's sick and twisted.

Brilliant

[Brian2887]

But Nolan knows what he's doing. This is a trilogy, at least. If the next movie is Harvey Dent with Joker in the shadows, what do you think #3, the biggest movie, will be?

If I'm reading the report correctly, Joker will work in the shadows and pull strings for a movie before becoming an all-out force in the third flick.

Sounds great to me.

[The Fallen]

I don't care if he laughs and dances FLAMBOYANTLY or whatever kind of way, the guy just needs to be in most of the movie.



Brilliant

Joker Begins?

[Mr. Socko]

I know some of you will hate to hear this, but The Joker will be a MAJOR selling point for this movie.

YOU may not want him to be in the center of things, but I PROMISE you that the general public does. What do you honestly think the reaction would be if The Joker was kept behind the scenes through most of the film?

Like I said, you may like it, both general folks most likely won't, and the movie isn't just being made for us. WB knows that.

Someone who understands!

WB knows what is good for them. Lots of Joker.:up:

[Mr. Socko]

Joker Begins?

NO! He's already the Joker :rolleyes:

[Boom]

Speaking of the third movie, you know what would be sweet?

A gang war. Joker's vs TwoFace's. And Batman's caught right smack dab in the middle of it.

[Hunter Rider]

I know some of you will hate to hear this, but The Joker will be a MAJOR selling point for this movie.

You may not want him to be in the center of things, but I promise you that the general public does. What do you honestly think the reaction would be if The Joker was kept behind the scenes through most of the film?

Like I said, you may like it, both general folks most likely won't, and the movie isn't just being made for us. WB knows that. I mean good lord, look how much talk is flying around regarding the Joker casting, and we're still MONTHS away from an announcement. The Joker IS the talk of the sequel, and that is the plain truth.

Co-Sign:up:

[Mr. Socko]

lol

What can't these people understand

Joker should be in MOST of the movie

Batman should be in just about ALL of the movie

[Brian2887]

Speaking of the third movie, you know what would be sweet?

A gang war. Joker's vs TwoFace's. And Batman's caught right smack dab in the middle of it.

I was honestly just thinking something like that. Make it a Knightfall kind of story, in that Batman is worn down completely by being in the middle. He won't get his back broken or anything, but I'd love to see his stretched beyond his limits.

[Hunter Rider]

Speaking of the third movie, you know what would be sweet?

A gang war. Joker's vs TwoFace's. And Batman's caught right smack dab in the middle of it.

Your on a roll my good man:up:
It would lead to some cool scene of Batman playing them off against each other

[Erundur]

Jett just added this I guess -

"And when it is all said and done, it's going to be whomever Chris Nolan wants it to be. Oh, don't take "small and mysterious" as "cameo." Stay tuned! "

http://www.batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------

So that definitely means, dont expect the Joker to take up full screen time like B89... Expect it to be more on the lines of Ducard/Ra's in Begins(like all the villains playing along, with Bats as the main character)...Sounds good! :up:

I was getting worried there :eek:
I still have faith in Nolan but no Bettany? Damn it! :mad::(

Hey I'm a minority and I haven't had any problems with people accepting my opinion (except on Community.):(

:(

[The Fallen]

NO! He's already the Joker :rolleyes:

I know that! I ment that when you say you want the Joker in most of the movie. Why not call the movie 'Joker Begins'?

BATMAN and Bruce Wanye are the main characters in the movie, they need to be developed the most.

The Joker is Batman greatest rival. But there are many different ways to establish is. Maybe Nolan will try to establish is 'relationship' maybe not. They tried to do it in BATMAN '89 with Joker/Jack Naiper killed the Wayne's and while it worked in the movie, the fanboys shat on it as it strayed from the original mythos.

Why go through the same ol thing of 'baddie threatens Gotham, Batman stops it? IT'S BORING!

The Sequel needs to be different, IMO. Have the joker be the wild card in the underworld vs. Batman, Dent and Gordon.

[zer00]

And you'd rather he laugh and dance flamboyantly for two movies? What you don't see is scarier than what you do.

It's kept Joker around for decades hasn't it?

[Mr. Socko]

I know that! I ment that when you say you want the Joker in most of the movie. Why not call the movie 'Joker Begins'?

BATMAN and Bruce Wanye are the main characters in the movie, they need to be developed the most.

The Joker is Batman greatest rival. But there are many different ways to establish is. Maybe Nolan will try to establish is 'relationship' maybe not. They tried to do it in BATMAN '89 with Joker/Jack Naiper killed the Wayne's and while it worked in the movie, the fanboys shat on it as it strayed from the original mythos.

Why go through the same ol thing of 'baddie threatens Gotham, Batman stops it? IT'S BORING!

The Sequel needs to be different, IMO. Have the joker be the wild card in the underworld vs. Batman, Dent and Gordon.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


What can't these people understand

Joker should be in MOST of the movie

Batman should be in just about ALL of the movie

:up::)

[Boom]

Co-Sign:up:
Thanks.

Look, I agree with everybody here. Batman should be the main focus of this movie, as he was in Batman Begins. I don't want the Joker taking over the show. But I don't want him short-changed either. I want memorable scenes, scenes that will become classics. I don't want to spend a good portion of the movie thinking, "LOOK! ANOTHER DEAD BODY! WE'RE ONE STEP CLOSER TO SEEING A COOL JOKER SCENE!!"

Seriously.

[zer00]

Thanks.

Look, I agree with everybody here. Batman should be the main focus of this movie, as he was in Batman Begins. I don't want the Joker taking over the show. But I don't want him short-changed either. I want memorable scenes, scenes that will become classics. I don't want to spend the whole movie thinking, "LOOK! ANOTHER DEAD BODY! WE'RE ONE STEP CLOSER TO SEEING A COOL JOKER SCENE!!"

Seriously.

Yup. The SE7EN anaology is just dumb.

Everyone who will go see this movie knows who the Joker is and what he looks like and how he should act. John Doe on the other hand....

Doing that to the Joker would just piss off the audience and probobly bring about negativites about the film.

[Mr. Socko]

They tried to do it in BATMAN '89 with Joker/Jack Naiper killed the Wayne's and while it worked in the movie, the fanboys shat on it as it strayed from the original mythos.


Yeah, Ducard being Ra's Al Ghul was ripped right from the comics...

Those fanboys you speak of amaze me :rolleyes:

[Mr. Socko]

Yup. The SE7EN anaology is just dumb.

Everyone who will go see this movie knows who the Joker is and what he looks like and how he should act. John Doe on the other hand....

Doing that to the Joker would just piss off the audience and probobly bring about negativites about the film.

EXACTLY

Especially from me...

[Ming]

You know what, I'd rather have a movie that had no Joker than one that had over 60% of him.

[Joker]

This is bull crap.The Joker cannot have a small role in this movie.He's either a central villain,or just leave him out of it altogether.

And this feeling his presence despite his small role nonsense I've seen some people say is not applicable here.Anyone who reads the Batman comics knows the Joker doesn't do small roles like this.He cannot play second fiddle to any other villain in a Batman movie.

I sincerely hope this is not true.Otherwise my faith in Nolan has just plummeted.

[Mr. Socko]

You know what, I'd rather have a movie that had no Joker than one that had over 60% of him.

So you'd rather ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL over Batman '89....


Disturbing.....http://www.swcity.net/yabbse/Smileys/classic/face_plain.gif

[Boom]

You know what, I'd rather have a movie that had no Joker than one that had over 60% of him.
And when has anyone said they wanted 60%?

[Ming]

Yep.

[Boom]

This is bull crap.The Joker cannot have a small role in this movie.He's either a central villain,or just leave him out of it altogether.

And this feeling his presence despite his small role nonsense I've seen some people say is not applicable here.Anyone who reads the Batman comics knows the Joker doesn't do small roles like this.He cannot play second fiddle to any other villain in a Batman movie.

I sincerely hope this is not true.Otherwise my faith in Nolan has just plummeted.
Well spoken.

[Hunter Rider]

Thanks.

Look, I agree with everybody here. Batman should be the main focus of this movie, as he was in Batman Begins. I don't want the Joker taking over the show. But I don't want him short-changed either. I want memorable scenes, scenes that will become classics. I don't want to spend a good portion of the movie thinking, "LOOK! ANOTHER DEAD BODY! WE'RE ONE STEP CLOSER TO SEEING A COOL JOKER SCENE!!"

Seriously.

Exactly,We know Bruce's backstory now so whilst Batman should remain the viewpoint we see the movie from it should be as a detective which will incorporate the villains more
Joker and Batman must share onscreen dialogues otherwise joker is just a random killer who batman is chasing
Joker is obsessed with Batman and vice versa,without interaction that obsession can't be triggered and built

[The Fallen]

Look. Here is my definitive opinion.

I like The Joker. He's my fav rougue.

I just want the character protrayed RIGHT, not like in '89.

This CAN be done with a small amount or large amount of screen time.

As long was we get A DEFINITAVE CHARACERISATION of The Joker in this movie and possibally the third, I'll be happy with that.

That's the thing with comic book characters, everyone has a different interpretation of the characters, and there is SO MUCH material to source from (comics, cartoons, movies) but the essence of the character remains in all these different interpretations.

.... INWT

[Mr. Socko]

Name a Batman comic where Joker is the main villian and he wasn't focused on or shown as much as Batman...

Anyone, come on, I dare ya!

Oh and Ming, 50% Joker would be perfect ;)

[Babs Gordon]

i just worry about pre-e-joker-lation or whatever that dude called it a few pages back.

it's like giving the kids dessert before dinner. they won't want dinner after dessert's been have. do i make ANY sense? lol

[Ming]

And when has anyone said they wanted 60%?

I'd prefer less then that. 30%, maybe 25%....

[Boom]

I'd prefer less then that. 30%, maybe 25%....
Alright, fair enough.

But how much of that is dedicated to this "behind-the-scenes" idea?

[Mr. Socko]

I'd prefer less then that. 30%, maybe 25%....

Then go watch some s****ty fan film

[Babs Gordon]

i really agree with you fallen. i really do.

[Babs Gordon]

haha we fan folks whine worse than little babies sometimes.

[trustyside-kick]

i actually like limiting the joker like that. maybe by do that they can they could focus more on the Batman/Gordon/Dent crime team. plus it could reduces the chance of him killing Rachel (good).

im still hoping for Bettany to get the part though. right now hes the only one i can see playing the part.

At first I was hoping for Joker to have more screen time but after reading that I think it is ok.

I especially liked the whole Batman/Gordon/Dent team thing you mentioned too; reminds me of TLH; good idea bro.

Also, with making Joker not have a butt-load of screen time means that he will not be main villain for this movie which is fine and makes a bigger chance of him being a main villain in the 3rd perhaps.

And about the killing Rachel part...I can care less.

And appearently Bettany won't get the part...Hulme, Law, and Weaving (w/e his name is) I heard are the candidates now? Out of the three I say Hulme then.

[The Fallen]

Yeah, Ducard being Ra's Al Ghul was ripped right from the comics...

Those fanboys you speak of amaze me :rolleyes:

I liked that twist, cos it was different. I see where you are coming from. It's just that IMO, Joker killing Wayne's was wrong cos it strayed from the mythos.

While Ra's being Ducard is acceptable as Ra's is a shadowy type figure. If I was the head of a massive 'organisation' like Ra's, I'd have a bodyguard or two...

[zer00]

Yeah, Ducard being Ra's Al Ghul was ripped right from the comics...

Those fanboys you speak of amaze me :rolleyes:

It's funny that they complain about stuff like that in B89 etc.

Yet Joker appearing in shadow and etc until the very end is revolutionary and kickass.

[Babs Gordon]

there are lots of ways to work this. batman is still just setting up shop. joker is still just getting started. like i've said in this thread before, it's plausible that the joker develops criminally as well. because this is part of an origin trilogy exploring the earliest work of batman, this gives us an opportunity to explore the joker's development as a maniacal criminal as well.

i just want a story told well and i want audiences dying to come back for the third. a satisfying story involving the joker, leading toward a bang-up climax in the 3rd won't disappoint audiences so long as they've got an interesting support story. did people come out to see begins because it had the joker? no! i mean seriously... they're going to come anyway, and any joker involvement will keep them interested, especially if its moving toward something awesomer. anyway... i'm just rambling now.

[Ming]

Name a Batman comic where Joker is the main villian and he wasn't focused on or shown as much as Batman...

Anyone, come on, I dare ya!

Oh and Ming, 50% Joker would be perfect ;)

Actually, I believe in Batman No.1, counting panel for panel, no counting the ones where they were together, the joker had less panels then Batman. Unlike Batman 89', it was about how Batman stopped the Joker, not a Joke-orgy with the occasional cameo by Batman.

[trustyside-kick]

there are lots of ways to work this. batman is still just setting up shop. joker is still just getting started. like i've said in this thread before, it's plausible that the joker develops criminally as well. because this is part of an origin trilogy exploring the earliest work of batman, this gives us an opportunity to explore the joker's development as a maniacal criminal as well.

i just want a story told well and i want audiences dying to come back for the third. a satisfying story involving the joker, leading toward a bang-up climax in the 3rd won't disappoint audiences so long as they've got an interesting support story. did people come out to see begins because it had the joker? no! i mean seriously... they're going to come anyway, and any joker involvement will keep them interested, especially if its moving toward something awesomer. anyway... i'm just rambling now.

Yea....don't know what else to add to that....except for the Batman/Gordon/Dent crime team thing my bro mentioned. :up:

[Mr. Socko]

It's funny that they complain about stuff like that in B89 etc.

Yet Joker appearing in shadow and etc until the very end is revolutionary and kickass.

Like you said, denial. They won't accept that Nolan is taking the wrong approach.

there are lots of ways to work this. batman is still just setting up shop. joker is still just getting started. like i've said in this thread before, it's plausible that the joker develops criminally as well. because this is part of an origin trilogy exploring the earliest work of batman, this gives us an opportunity to explore the joker's development as a maniacal criminal as well.

i just want a story told well and i want audiences dying to come back for the third. a satisfying story involving the joker, leading toward a bang-up climax in the 3rd won't disappoint audiences so long as they've got an interesting support story. did people come out to see begins because it had the joker? no! i mean seriously... they're going to come anyway, and any joker involvement will keep them interested, especially if its moving toward something awesomer. anyway... i'm just rambling now.

Did people come to see Batman & Robin because it featured Bat-nipples? Those people you speak of will watch anything. Doesn't matter how bad it is, it'll still do atleast decent in the BO. Batman & Robin did pretty good in the BO itself.

Actually, I believe in Batman No.1, counting panel for panel, no counting the ones where they were together, the joker had less panels then Batman. Unlike Batman 89', it was about how Batman stopped the Joker, not a Joke-orgy with the occasional cameo by Batman.

MY GAWD NO!!!! One comic where Joker actually had one less panel then Batman. :eek::eek::eek:

Yep, this is why the movie should only have the Joker in it for the last 10 minutes

[trustyside-kick]

Nah, not the last 10 minutes. He should get more screen time then that. And if anything have them at spread out parts of the film.

[zer00]

there are lots of ways to work this. batman is still just setting up shop. joker is still just getting started. like i've said in this thread before, it's plausible that the joker develops criminally as well. because this is part of an origin trilogy exploring the earliest work of batman, this gives us an opportunity to explore the joker's development as a maniacal criminal as well.

i just want a story told well and i want audiences dying to come back for the third. a satisfying story involving the joker, leading toward a bang-up climax in the 3rd won't disappoint audiences so long as they've got an interesting support story. did people come out to see begins because it had the joker? no! i mean seriously... they're going to come anyway, and any joker involvement will keep them interested, especially if its moving toward something awesomer. anyway... i'm just rambling now.

Well of course they went to see BATMAN kickass. And be...Batmanish.

But they know The Joker is coming. I mean when that Joker card was shown..before it was even flipped. People went nuts. And this is maryland. That doesn't happen often:o It's hard to get a clap out of people.

People want to see what can be the ultimate showdown between the best Batman yet and The Joker.

Not exploring that would be wrong and unfair not just to comic fans but to people who's never really seen it outside of TAS which was still a cartoon.

You don't need to see Joker byhimself or with goons. You can show him with Dent or Gordon or Batman or killing people etc. And still have him be Batman. That's how I'm doing it(uh oh self plug) my script I'm...been working on for 10 months...I got busy okay. I had Joker tormenting Dent and even stabbing Gordon. Only really one scene with him and his guys alone. And in that he kills one of them.

He didn't overtake Batman or hell even Dent for that matter. But he still got enough play to make it a good Batman vs Joker story. Now I'm not expecting it to be done the same way. Cause...I'm not a proffesional:o But side lining Joker...there's no excuse you could give to make up for such a thing. And it's very easy to tie in Bruce's psychological torment with Joker's for some great stuff...that doesn't even have Joker mentioned let alone around for.

[Mr. Socko]

My point is, when the Joker is the main villian 99% of the time, he has just as much screen time/comic panels as Batman does.

[trustyside-kick]

Mr. Socko do you mean that you want him to be the main villain in the sequel?

[zer00]

My point is, when the Joker is the main villian 99% of the time, he has just as much screen time/comic panels as Batman does.

yes. But that doesn't mean Joker should have even equal screentime to still have a good amount of the J-man.

Think of Batman and Joker's screen time side by side

Batman: 100%

Joker: 80%

Even Dent and Gordon would probobly have more than that. But...Joker wouldn't have a small part. But still be done justice. And not even come close to overshadowing Batman.

[zer00]

Mr. Socko do you mean that you want him to be the main villain in the sequel?
The Joker?

the main villian in a Batman movie?

Are you out of your ****ing mind?