SR in TIME mag's Summer Preview

[Tron5000]

(sorry if this was already posted. didn't see it if so)

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1186570-2,00.html


SUPERMAN RETURNS

Starring: Brandon Routh, Kate Bosworth. Release date: June 30. What the first four made: $318 million

THE CHALLENGE The problem with Superman is that he doesn't have enough problems. He can pretty much do anything—dude has superbreath—and apart from the kryptonite thing, he's pretty much invulnerable. And oh, my stars, what a do-gooder. Where's the inner conflict? Or the outer conflict, for that matter? He's not dark and troubled like Batman or Wolverine, or cute and clueless like Spider-Man.

WHAT'S NEW You can't openly monkey with the Superman mythology--there are probably federal laws against it—so to reinvent him director Bryan Singer (The Usual Suspects, the X-Men movies) went subtle, quietly tweaking canonical story lines to roil Supe's placid emotional waters. When the movie opens, Big Blue has been gone for five years, and he gets back to find that Lois Lane has a new guy (!) and a kid (!!). Now, wouldn't that ruffle your spit curl?

THE BUZZ The set radiated bad p.r.: there were rumors of reshoots and wild budget overruns (the reported cost is a mighty $185 million). And do comic-book fans really care if Superman is a lover as well as a fighter? New guy Routh fills out the blue tights, and Spacey looks like a deliciously loony Lex Luthor, but Clark Kent might need to find a new beat. —By Lev Grossman



Not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?

[M.O.Steel]

interesting...

[BareKnucklez]

Yeah doesn't sound like that guys to thrilled about the new movie...

[ruhanv]

I think everybody noticed the photo and not the article itself which is quite negative.

I have been following this production for years now and unless I am talking out of my ass, there has been 1 rumour of a budget overrun and ZERO reports of reshoots. Where is this idiot getting his information from?

[JackBauer]

the guy's obviously not a fan of Superman... I stopped when I read "he's not dark and troubled like Batman and Wolverine".

not every superhero has to be "dark and troubled", jackass... :rolleyes:

[That-Guy]

I think everybody noticed the photo and not the article itself which is quite negative.

I have been following this production for years now and unless I am talking out of my ass, there has been 1 rumour of a budget overrun and ZERO reports of reshoots. Where is this idiot getting his information from?

Probably that ass hole from Page 6 or something.

[Tron5000]

He disses on SR, then he says X3 may suffer from losing Brian Singer. That's kinda contradictory. I don't like TIME anyway, so this isn't a huge surprise.

[PWN3R]

the guy's obviously not a fan of Superman... I stopped when I read "he's not dark and troubled like Batman and Wolverine".

not every superhero has to be "dark and troubled", jackass... :rolleyes:

Just comparing Superman to Wolverine.....that guy should be shot. :( :down

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I wouldn't be that harsh, but I understand his concerns. Superman has always come off to me as a very bland character.

[PWN3R]

No...no one can ever compare a character like Superman to WHOREverine....:(


He doesn't know what he is talking about.

[Tron5000]

An alien from another planet who symbolizes all of the good in humanity and has powers beyond those of damn near any other superhero out there. Flies, can move mountains, sees through things, vulnerable to very few things, lives an entirely different life as a normal human being...sounds pretty bland to me.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

No...no one can ever compare a character like Superman to WHOREverine....:(


He doesn't know what he is talking about.Personally, I think that Wolverine is totally played out and that the movie Wovlerine (I really enjoy Hugh Jackman BTW) is just a wimpified version of the character. I would like to see the short (not as short as the comicbook character) angry kick ass Wolve but oh well, If Time thinks that the movie character is hardcore... whatever.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

An alien from another planet who symbolizes all of the good in humanity and has powers beyond those of damn near any other superhero out there. Flies, can move mountains, sees through things, vulnerable to very few things, lives an entirely different life as a normal human being...sounds pretty bland to me.Some people don't find the character all that exciting, deal with it. I happen to love Lex, and Supes adventures but I've never been in love with the character and do find it kinda boring.

[Mentok]

Another clueless person who thinks that a character has to be an Agnsty teen or a badass anti hero to have any appeal.

[Mentok]

Personally, I think that Wolverine is totally played out and that the movie Wovlerine (I really enjoy Hugh Jackman BTW) is just a wimpified version of the character.

Well to be fair, there was no way to get the real comic book version of Logan into a PG-13 film... Unless you went all arty with black and white and only showed 10% of the things he was doing (or people he was killing :D )

On a side note, I hope the people involved with the Wolverine film go and watch some Akira Kurosawa films before getting to work :up:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Another clueless person who thinks that a character has to be an Agnsty teen or a badass anti hero to have any appeal.No.

[Jamiew]

I love all the Superman movies!! Screw him!

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Already been done at The Planet. Don't feel like reading through the same old stuff. Eh

[Metropolis_Man]

An alien from another planet who symbolizes all of the good in humanity and has powers beyond those of damn near any other superhero out there. Flies, can move mountains, sees through things, vulnerable to very few things, lives an entirely different life as a normal human being...sounds pretty bland to me.

I'd even say mediocre at best :up: . Oh well, not everyone is going to like it.

[ohmshalone]

This reminds me of that NY Times guy who also got a lot of stuff wrong

[Superman4ever]

Yeah, I read the article yesterday, and it was upsetting. The guy just doesn't understand Superman, and is grossly misunderstood on his characterization. He doesn't have to be an anti-hero or a stupid teen with a sharp tongue--even though Superman was a trash-talker at one point in time-- to be interesting or appealing to a massive audience.

All the Prophets of G-d were good men that did miraculous things, and I don't see their stories going away anytime soon.

I think come June 30th all Superman fans are going to be vindicated and all doubts will be laid to rest. This movie is going to be huge, and if some prick from Time can’t see that, then tough!

[Mentok]

No.

Im talking about the guy that wrote the article.

[musclesforsupes]

Told you guys that usa today pic would be bad :(

The set radiated bad p.r.:

[Whack Arnolds]

Legitimate concerns, and from what I gather from most...the general consensus of the modern day audience. Not many seem to be interested in Superman, as opposed to Spider-Man, Batman, X-Men etc.

[newmexneon]

Of course a Batman and Wolvie fan is gonna diss on Supes 'cause he's not "Cool". "He's not dark and troubled like Batman or Wolverine" those two characteristics are very Un-heroic to me and is the reason I don't read either characters books, Heroes are supposed to instill hope in people, not fear.

[ultimatefan]

I read the whole article, and it all sounds like a bunch of snob pseudointellectuals talking down on blockbusters - which are mostly ****, fine, but if you look close so are most "art" films...

I was thinking about that the other day, and you know what, maybe Supes´ best appeal these days is EXACTLY the fact that he´s an idealist hero in a cynical and angsty world. That makes him a fish-out-of-water, in a way. I like my dark and angsty superheroes - Batman, Wolvie, Daredevil, etc. - But some lighter characters like Supes of The Flash help to give a sort of yin-yang balance to it.

[Whack Arnolds]

Of course a Batman and Wolvie fan is gonna diss on Supes 'cause he's not "Cool". "He's not dark and troubled like Batman or Wolverine" those two characteristics are very Un-heroic to me and is the reason I don't read either characters books, Heroes are supposed to instill hope in people, not fear.Really now? Of course you then wouldn't understand that Batman instills hope to the meek, by putting fear in the oppressors. Which of course, makes for a more interesting and overall "bad-ass" concept. :up:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Of course a Batman and Wolvie fan is gonna diss on Supes 'cause he's not "Cool". "He's not dark and troubled like Batman or Wolverine" those two characteristics are very Un-heroic to me and is the reason I don't read either characters books, Heroes are supposed to instill hope in people, not fear.LOL! So, you like bland goodie two shoes characters? Got it!:up:

[SolidSnakeMGS]

For him to be such a "bland" character, he sure does have a lot of popularity and movies, TV shows, etc. out. And that's not to mention the fact that he is the most widely known and recognized comic book character on the planet.

[spencer6891]

Of course a Batman and Wolvie fan is gonna diss on Supes 'cause he's not "Cool". "He's not dark and troubled like Batman or Wolverine" those two characteristics are very Un-heroic to me and is the reason I don't read either characters books, Heroes are supposed to instill hope in people, not fear.

Your misunderstanding of the characters could explain why you dislike them. Batman instills hope THROUGH scaring the **** out of criminals. It's a simple, yet beautiful concept.

[batman44]

I happen to like my none angsty Superman, he doesn't need to be like Batman or Spider-man to be cool imo.

[Super_Ludacris]

That article was pretty honest I thought. You guys can get pissed off and all but a lot of other people are gonna say the same thing and Time is under the Time Warner conglomerate so they could have written a glowing PR spin of an article to promote there big summer movie.
And as much as you guys hate the talk of Wolverine and Batman, lets face it: Those dark broody characters seem more popular now compared to Superman in the 70's and 80's but at the same time the outside hope is after looking at Spiderman, maybe light hearted superhero films can be good but Spider-man had never had a franchise run and is more interesting than Superman.
Again I hope the film does well and like the dude said Singer is attempting to bring an interesting new perspective without hurting the mythology so its gonna be interesting but dont suprise if people dont go because it's just Superman.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

For him to be such a "bland" character, he sure does have a lot of popularity and movies, TV shows, etc. out. And that's not to mention the fact that he is the most widely known and recognized comic book character on the planet.Whocares? I and some other folk find him to be a somewhat bland hero; Hopefully Singer makes him a little more interesting.

Dude, I don't let people tell me what to think and what to like, I make up my own mind. For example, I happen to think that "Superman The movie" is a 6 out of 10 movie, a mediocre slapstick movie that falls apart after Clark goes to Metropolis. I loved Reeve as Superman though, he is perfectly cast, if only I didn't hate his Clark Kent so much.

See, all of that is my opinion, I'm intitled to it!

[Bibs11]

I wouldn't be that harsh, but I understand his concerns. Superman has always come off to me as a very bland character.

I can't stand it when people say Superman is "bland". The guy is in a world not his own, trying to fit in, saving the frickin world from disasters (both natural and not)! How is that bland? I agree that not EVERY Superhero needs to be dark, disturbed, angry, etc...

This world could stand to have a symbol of goodness and hope right about now, wouldn't you say??

[Cinemaman]

I love Superman as character, he is great. And the main thing is that he doesn't look like usual superhero.

[Tron5000]

SPIDEY go back to the Spider-man 3 threads and complain about how it sucks that Venom's in the movie and Spidey's suit isn't really black and all that other nonsense you kids like to whine about.

[Cinemaman]

Whocares? I and some other folk find him to be a somewhat bland hero; Hopefully Singer makes him a little more interesting.

Dude, I don't let people tell me what to think and what to like, I make up my own mind. For example, I happen to think that "Superman The movie" is a 6 out of 10 movie, a mediocre slapstick movie that falls apart after Clark goes to Metropolis. I loved Reeve as Superman though, he is perfectly cast, if only I didn't hate his Clark Kent so much.

See, all of that is my opinion, I'm intitled to it!

So you love Superman movie, but not Superman? LOL.

[Super_Ludacris]

Some of you guys are so bias that your not even sitting down and understanding the logic of the other side that's pretty reasonable.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

So you love Superman movie, but not Superman? LOL.No.

[Tron5000]

I am too sitting down. It's not bias, it's disagreement.

[Cinemaman]

No.

Oh, you love Superman and movie , but don't like how they show him, right?

[Super_Ludacris]

Guys, you gotta understand a lot of ppl in the real world are gonna think Superman is played out, its one of the things you gotta factor into thinking this film may not make Spider-man money even if Supes is (argubaly) more famous and (unargubaly) been around longer.
If it makes it money great and it will be because Spider-man (light hearted film somewhat) and Batman begins (DC Property) restored faith in the comic book/Superhero genre to kick in the door and create a demand for another Superman film but a lotta people think he is bland and that's fine, cant hate too much on that.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

SPIDEY go back to the Spider-man 3 threads and complain about how it sucks that Venom's in the movie and Spidey's suit isn't really black and all that other nonsense you kids like to whine about.I don't whine about the Spider-Man movies, I happen to love them and am really looking forward to Venom and Spidey's black (venom) suit.

Oddly enough I do have to agree with you, most of the people on the Spidey boards are idiots, thats why I don't really visit them anymore.

I have to decline your request for that reason and because I like the Superman boards. The people here seem mostly cool, even people that disagree with my view that this (Superman Returns) movie looks iffy at best.

You sir are one of the few morons that I have run into, Thank g-d for that!

[The Sage]

I see where the guy is coming from, and it's that kind of thinking that makes me glad that we're getting the story that's being told. The question this guy seems to be posing is what makes Superman so great and challenging, and how is he as interesting as dark, brooding heroes like Batman and Wolverine. The movie's about how will Superman adjust to a world that has learned to move on without him, a world that has learned to go on without an idealistic hero.

I believe it's that guy's type of attitude that we'll see in SR. He, and everyone else will learn that with Superman it's not really about the physical battles, but the emotional ones, which is what makes him similar to Batman and Spider-Man.

[Super_Ludacris]

Super hero angst is partly what sells these stories on both movies and TV. We been knowing this for years

[Superman \S/]

The article was interesting.....

[Superman \S/]

Super hero angst is partly what sells these stories on both movies and TV. We been knowing this for years

Super Ludacris, your avvy is awesome. :up:

[ultimatefan]

I see where the guy is coming from, and it's that kind of thinking that makes me glad that we're getting the story that's being told. The question this guy seems to be posing is what makes Superman so great and challenging, and how is he as interesting as dark, brooding heroes like Batman and Wolverine. The movie's about how will Superman adjust to a world that has learned to move on without him, a world that has learned to go on without an idealistic hero.

I believe it's that guy's type of attitude that we'll see in SR. He, and everyone else will learn that with Superman it's not really about the physical battles, but the emotional ones, which is what makes him similar to Batman and Spider-Man.
Exactly, the character isn´t dark or brooding, but you can find good character conflict in him if you want to. Look at his father´s death in STM. All the powers in the world, and he couldn´t save the life of a loved one. That´s great conflict.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Super hero angst is partly what sells these stories on both movies and TV. We been knowing this for yearsExactly. Superhero comics are like Soap Opera's for boys.

[musclesforsupes]

If the movie fails to except expectations then expect a restart in probably 10 yrs.

[The Sage]

Super hero angst is partly what sells these stories on both movies and TV. We been knowing this for years

Angst is fine when used well. Some movies and tv shows don't know how to.

[Super_Ludacris]

But that's what sells them is my point. Not whether there used well or not.

[JackBauer]

I can definitely understand people not liking Superman. what pisses me off is that ignorant attitude that says heroes have to be dark and brooding in order to be interesting. quite frankly, that's pure bulls#!t. and if you can't see how Superman can be interesting, you're just not trying hard enough.

btw, I SEE SPIDEY, you're looking forward to Venom and yet you think Superman's bland?! oh, the irony...

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Whocares? I and some other folk find him to be a somewhat bland hero;

Who cares. I and many other folk disagree with you.

Hopefully Singer makes him a little more interesting.

He's already pretty interesting.

Dude, I don't let people tell me what to think and what to like, I make up my own mind. For example, I happen to think that "Superman The movie" is a 6 out of 10 movie, a mediocre slapstick movie that falls apart after Clark goes to Metropolis. I loved Reeve as Superman though, he is perfectly cast, if only I didn't hate his Clark Kent so much.

Uh, good for you I guess. I never said you didn't make up your own mind. I was just pointing out that for a character you consider uninteresting, he sure does get a lot of interest from other people.

See, all of that is my opinion, I'm intitled to it!

Oh and here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Col_Kilgore/flaming/oldladyritalin.jpg

[Superman \S/]

Edit.

[The Sage]

Exactly, the character isn´t dark or brooding, but you can find good character conflict in him if you want to. Look at his father´s death in STM. All the powers in the world, and he couldn´t save the life of a loved one. That´s great conflict.

Exactly. And in SR you'll have the prodigal son returning home. But, instead of being welcomed with open arms, Supes is gonna be in some way rejected. He'll be rejected by the world, and more specifically, by Lois. That's conflict, that's power. Imagine coming home and realizing home doesn't want you. There's your human connection, there's the relatibility that everyone craves.

[Superman \S/]

But that's what sells them is my point. Not whether there used well or not.

I agree.

[The Sage]

But that's what sells them is my point. Not whether there used well or not.

I agree with you there.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Who cares. I and many other folk disagree with you.



He's already pretty interesting.



Uh, good for you I guess. I never said you didn't make up your own mind. I was just pointing out that for a character you consider uninteresting, he sure does get a lot of interest from other people.



Oh and here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Col_Kilgore/flaming/oldladyritalin.jpgDon't use pictures to agrue with me, it's wholly unoriginal and makes you look dumb. I know because I've used them before. I won't be using them again BTW.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

btw, I SEE SPIDEY, you're looking forward to Venom and yet you think Superman's bland?! oh, the irony... When does jack go to the bathroom?

[JackBauer]

offscreen

[I SEE SPIDEY]

offscreenYou know I can't really care about your opinion because I hate 24 and you seem to like it. We have different taste obviously.

[JackBauer]

yep. I have good taste and you have bad. obviously. :o :p

[explode7]

That new pic looks awful.:( Superman looks like he is forcing himself to fly.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

yep. I have good taste and you have bad. obviously. :o :pThats a good one.

[hippie_hunter]

No...no one can ever compare a character like Superman to WHOREverine....:(

From now on, I will refer Wolverine as Whoreverine.

[Fatboy Roberts]

I have a hard time believing you're actually "too old for this s**t" because if this little argument is any example, you're barely "too old for 4th grade"

[The Sage]

That new pic looks awful.:( Superman looks like he is forcing himself to fly.

Well it certainly isn't the wind that lifts him in the air, my future Apprentice...:doom:

[Lone]

And yet, once SR hits the bigscreen, ppl won't stop talking about it for a looooooooooooooooooong time.

Superman, bland? That's rich.

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Don't use pictures to agrue with me, it's wholly unoriginal and makes you look dumb. I know because I've used them before. I won't be using them again BTW.

BTW you didn't refute anything I said, soooooo....

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/1-14-05/you-lose.jpg

:D

[explode7]

Well it certainly isn't the wind that lifts him in the air...:doom:

I want the flying to look graceful and look as if it comes natural to superman just like walking is to us:up: I guess we really have to see it in motion to fully judge.

[The Sage]

I want the flying to look graceful and look as if it comes natural to superman just like walking is to us:up: I guess we really have to see it in motion to fully judge.

It looks he's flying fast on a mission in this one. The graceful stuff will come later. This one seems more about power and speed.

[Whack Arnolds]

Exactly, the character isn´t dark or brooding, but you can find good character conflict in him if you want to. Look at his father´s death in STM. All the powers in the world, and he couldn´t save the life of a loved one. That´s great conflict.No, it isn't... Because this is the same guy that flew around the worl so fast that he reversed the earth's rotation...thus going back in time????? :confused: If he could do that, why didn't he just keep going back in time to save his father and speed him to a hospital to counter act his father's heart attack? That is just one of the reasons, why that single act makes the og Superman movies so incredibly ****ty. And why many don't like the character.

[explode7]

Yeah and I also want him to be unconcious of himself flying as well just like we are unconcious that we are walking, we don't really pay attention that we are walking simple stuff like that. If you know what I mean.

[The Sage]

No, it isn't... Because this is the same guy that flew around the worl so fast that he reversed the earth's rotation...thus going back in time????? :confused: If he could do that, why didn't he just keep going back in time to save his father and speed him to a hospital to counter act his father's heart attack? That is just one of the reasons, why that single act makes the og Superman movies so incredibly ****ty. And why many don't like the character.

That's probably one of the things from the past that'll be ignored. Besides, that's no goofier than Ra's Al Ghul wanting to destroy Gotham for a catastrophe that he himself perpetuated.

[Whack Arnolds]

That's probably one of the things from the past that'll be ignored.See how that can get confusing, and entirely corny? Selective amnesia of the backstory? I mean its called "Superman Returns"...so there has to be a back story... Where do future sequels to this take place? Before the Richard Prior Superman movies? It's stupid. "Let's only use selective parts from prior movies as explanations for things." I'm personally excited for the movie, but I think its too complicated.

[ultimatefan]

No, it isn't... Because this is the same guy that flew around the worl so fast that he reversed the earth's rotation...thus going back in time????? :confused: If he could do that, why didn't he just keep going back in time to save his father and speed him to a hospital to counter act his father's heart attack? That is just one of the reasons, why that single act makes the og Superman movies so incredibly ****ty. And why many don't like the character.
It was implied that Supes still didn´t fly when he was young, and he still wasn´t sure what he was capable of. Even after becoming Superman, he wasn´t entirely sure how fast he could fly. I don´t like the turning back in time scene either, but the fact that he could´t save his father was a good character insight.

[explode7]

yep it is

[Fatboy Roberts]

You're thinking way too hard, is why. Selective amnesia is EASY for an audience when they're not as hardcore fanboy as we are. Not everyone has these movies memorized like we do, and the few that do care enough to read around in mags and on the internet to have it explained so we go in there knowing what to pick apart and what not to.

It's pretty cake, actually.

[ultimatefan]

That's probably one of the things from the past that'll be ignored. Besides, that's no goofier than Ra's Al Ghul wanting to destroy Gotham for a catastrophe that he himself perpetuated.
Actually, he implied that Gotham was already in the course of self-destruction when he and the league acted, even the first time. The league acts "when a civilization reaches the peak of its decadence". Ra´s believes in saving a decaying society by destroying it for good and building something else in its place. It´s a distorted view, but that´s why he´s the bad guy.

[Showtime]

You're thinking way too hard, is why. Selective amnesia is EASY for an audience when they're not as hardcore fanboy as we are. Not everyone has these movies memorized like we do, and the few that do care enough to read around in mags and on the internet to have it explained so we go in there knowing what to pick apart and what not to.

It's pretty cake, actually.

I agree. I don't think any of the "Average Joe" movie goers are going to be pissed off because they didn't explain why Gus Gorman wasn't still working as a computer analyst at the coal factory.

[Oldguy]

the guy's obviously not a fan of Superman... I stopped when I read "he's not dark and troubled like Batman and Wolverine".

not every superhero has to be "dark and troubled", jackass... :rolleyes:

They do, if they want to pack the seats with the MTV crowd.

[The Sage]

See how that can get confusing, and entirely corny? Selective amnesia of the backstory? I mean its called "Superman Returns"...so there has to be a back story... Where do future sequels to this take place? Before the Richard Prior Superman movies? It's stupid. "Let's only use selective parts from prior movies as explanations for things." I'm personally excited for the movie, but I think its too complicated.

Hardly. The James Bond movies aren't exactly in direct continuity with each other, or else they all would be set in the 60s, wouldn't they?

They're probably gonna give a backstory with what they're taking from the past and including it in the movie.

[The Sage]

They do, if they want to pack the seats with the MTV crowd.

Spider-Man, you speak of?

[The Sage]

Actually, he implied that Gotham was already in the course of self-destruction when he and the league acted, even the first time. The league acts "when a civilization reaches the peak of its decadence". Ra´s believes in saving a decaying society by destroying it for good and building something else in its place. It´s a distorted view, but that´s why he´s the bad guy.

Yeah, but even some people in the audience that was crazy. I easily accepted it though.

[Whack Arnolds]

I didn't say they would be 'pissed off'....I said they may be confused. Because some WILL remember the previous movies, and not know whether ot not all said events are being counted or just a few... etc. It's messy.

[ultimatefan]

The audience didn´t have a problem with accepting Batman Begins as the "first" Batman movie even after four movies had been made, they certainly won´t have a problem with the vague history concept.

[Whack Arnolds]

It was implied that Supes still didn´t fly when he was young, and he still wasn´t sure what he was capable of. Even after becoming Superman, he wasn´t entirely sure how fast he could fly. I don´t like the turning back in time scene either, but the fact that he could´t save his father was a good character insight.I'm not disagreeing, I am actually saying it is GREAT character insight....but it is then all thrown out the window when he reverses time.

[ultimatefan]

I didn't say they would be 'pissed off'....I said they may be confused. Because some WILL remember the previous movies, and not know whether ot not all said events are being counted or just a few... etc. It's messy.
As long as the movie makes sense in its own internal logic, that won´t be a problem. Most people won´t remember the past movies in such rich detail. They´re from over twenty-five years ago.

[Oldguy]

Another clueless person who thinks that a character has to be an Agnsty teen or a badass anti hero to have any appeal.

To the MTV crowd they do. What's a teenager going to relate to easier? Superman or Spiderman?

I totally agree that a character does not have to be angsty, or an anti-hero to have any appeal. But that brand of hero is the easiest for teenagers to relate to, so hollywood is afraid of depicting heroes in any other light because they fear their #1 demographic won't "get it."

The author of this article is aware of this, and merely pointing out how Singer has tweaked the character towards this end.

[Fatboy Roberts]

Because some WILL remember the previous movies, and not know whether ot not all said events are being counted or just a few

The number of people worrying about that is going to be a really REALLY small number, man. You gotta see that. The hand-wringing over the "vague history" is somewhat overkill at this point.

I agree with you about the 2nd half of Superman the Movie, however.

To the MTV crowd they do.

This stopped being a valid demographic descriptor back in 93, you old fart ;)

[Whack Arnolds]

The audience didn´t have a problem with accepting Batman Begins as the "first" Batman movie even after four movies had been made, they certainly won´t have a problem with the vague history concept.Yeah, but BEGINS is a clearly distinguished film compared to the previous 4. It felt different, had different characters, with different backstory... etc. This Superman film is supposed to show flashbacks to scenes of the original movies, AND it USES Marlon Brando's Jor-El, and I'm assuming Poppa Kent is still dead? It's messy. Doesn't mean it can't be a good flick, but the convulted nature of the history is really annoying.

[ultimatefan]

I'm not disagreeing, I am actually saying it is GREAT character insight....but it is then all thrown out the window when he reverses time.
Like I said, I don´t like the scene either... What I´m saying is you CAN generate interesting character conflict for Superman.

Oh, and I love your avatar with the BB line...

[Oldguy]

...This stopped being a valid demographic descriptor back in 93, you old fart ;)

Hey, MTV crowd was the first demographic descriptor that I could get past the forumn censor.

[Fatboy Roberts]

Then I rescind my stab at thee ;)

[Oldguy]

The audience didn´t have a problem with accepting Batman Begins as the "first" Batman movie even after four movies had been made, they certainly won´t have a problem with the vague history concept.

OK, I agree up to a point, like when it's revealed that Superman's the father. If they don't show some kind of flashback conception scene, and instead rely on CR and Lois' deed from SII, then I think some people might be lost.

Now if Maury is opening a manilla envelope, I think the home boyz will relate.

[Fatboy Roberts]

That's true. I don't think there's a lot of people that remember either a) Superman banged Lois in Superman II or b) that he kissed her and made her forget everything.

Of course, all of this becomes a lot easier if that kid ends up not being Clark's.

[Showtime]

What's this vague history everyone is talking about? How does it work? :rolleyes:

[Whack Arnolds]

Like I said, I don´t like the scene either... What I´m saying is you CAN generate interesting character conflict for Superman.No doubt, I think the character is great...but I do see the concerns of others as legitimate.

Oh, and I love your avatar with the BB line...Why, thank you.

[Showtime]

That's true. I don't think there's a lot of people that remember either a) Superman banged Lois in Superman II or b) that he kissed her and made her forget everything.

Of course, all of this becomes a lot easier if that kid ends up not being Clark's.

Did Lois get on his steel before he got rid of the powers or after? I forget now?

[IKnowSomeJudo]

Is it necassary to remember SII though? If the kid turns out to be his, I don't see why the "he must have banged her at one point or another" notion wouldn't fly as a part of the vague history.

[Fatboy Roberts]

after. See Mallrats as to why that couldn't have happened before.

[Showtime]

after. See Mallrats as to why that couldn't have happened before.

I have and I got ya.

[ToddIsDead]

Only someone like Wonder Woman has a uterus that's strong enough to hold Superman's child...

[Oldguy]

after. See Mallrats as to why that couldn't have happened before.

Where's the original essay/article from Playboy or somesuch that the mallrats dialogue was inspired by?

[IKnowSomeJudo]

after. See Mallrats as to why that couldn't have happened before.From what I recall, the main concern in mallrats was that intensity and power of Superman's ejaculation could shoot straight through Lois' body. He could have easily masturbated in a steel cup, and then later injected the semen with a syringe in her vagina. Young people are into that sort of stuff nowadays, I hear.

[Whack Arnolds]

Jesus, lol...

[Fatboy Roberts]

ah, but you're forgetting the above quote--the instant superbaby kicks inside Lois' stomach, the foot is coming out of her belly.

[IKnowSomeJudo]

Masochism?

[Showtime]

So if it was after than this little rugrat can't have superpowers if it is his son.

[Oldguy]

So if it was after than this little rugrat can't have superpowers if it is his son.

Although, in the post-crisis (if you say post-crisis 3 times, MatchesMalone will flame you, so be careful.) Kryptonians take years to develop womb bursting strength. If we see young Clark developing powers slowly, instead of toddler tune-ups like last time, this might be used to justify why the kid will eventually develop superpowers, without likking Lois.

Oh great Rao, please let the child be a red herring.

[Showtime]

Although, in the post-crisis (if you say post-crisis 3 times, MatchesMalone will flame you, so be careful.) Kryptonians take years to develop womb bursting strength. If we see young Clark developing powers slowly, instead of toddler tune-ups like last time, this might be used to justify why the kid will eventually develop superpowers, without likking Lois.

Oh great Rao, please let the child be a red herring.

Thanks for the input, I didn't know that.

I have said that in the past, that the kid is most likely a red herring. I have posted it several times but to no avail.

[ultimatefan]

From what I recall, the main concern in mallrats was that intensity and power of Superman's ejaculation could shoot straight through Lois' body. He could have easily masturbated in a steel cup, and then later injected the semen with a syringe in her vagina. Young people are into that sort of stuff nowadays, I hear.
That´s a mental picture I REALLY didn´t need....

[newmexneon]

ah, but you're forgetting the above quote--the instant superbaby kicks inside Lois' stomach, the foot is coming out of her belly.

That isn't possible, Kryptonians develop abilities after prolonged exposure to the sun. A developing fetus will be like any other human fetus.

[Showtime]

That isn't possible, Kryptonians develop abilities after prolonged exposure to the sun. A developing fetus will be like any other human fetus.

He's relating it to Mallrats not his own personal view I dont think.

[The Batman]

This is why, as much as i love them, spider-man, wolverine, and batman piss me off. They've created this entirely overrated niche thats needed for a superhero film to make money. Frankly, a guy like Superman is what the world needs.

[AgentPat]

If the movie fails to except expectations then expect a restart in probably 10 yrs.Oh Muscles, stop talkin' like a n00b LOL. You know better than that. :p

They do, if they want to pack the seats with the MTV crowd.Agreed.

Some people need to wake up and smell the coffee. The plot could be amazing, but if people such as that Times' writer already have a preconceived notion of what Superman is or isn't, then the biggest hurdle the film will face is getting butts in seats to begin with. Many people make up their minds about seeing a film based solely on what they THINK it will be about and could care less what critics and friends have to say after the pic unspools. People here should know that very, VERY well. If there's enough people out there who think Superman is boring compared to other comic book characters, it's going to be an uphill battle for Warners.

This stopped being a valid demographic descriptor back in 93, you old fart ;)Would an age range have made a better descriptor? Don't get hung up on the syntax. SR may indeed be appropriate for people from 8 to 80, but it's young adults with expendable incomes that are likely to see a film multiple times who are the most highly valued demographic today.

[Fatboy Roberts]

Pat: I was goofing on Oldguy, not trying to refute his claim. C'mon. Note the winky.

[Oldguy]

Pat: I was goofing on Oldguy, not trying to refute his claim. C'mon. Note the winky.

I wish you would get it a rest though. Do you have any idea how much it costs to get "goof" out? These drycleaning trips are adding up, Im on a fixed income you know.;)

[Oldguy]

This is why, as much as i love them, spider-man, wolverine, and batman piss me off. They've created this entirely overrated niche thats needed for a superhero film to make money. Frankly, a guy like Superman is what the world needs.

It's "hollywood's" fault, not W, S or B's. Hollywood doesn't think the average movie-goer is smart enough to "get" anything that deviates from the formula.

BB was a great attempt at departure, but there the studio was, jumping on couches as it were, cramming Katie Holmes down Nolan/Goyer's throat.

Can't have a Superhero movie without the damsel, the train and that amazing moustache.

[The Batman]

It's "hollywood's" fault, not W, S or B's. Hollywood doesn't think the average movie-goer is smart enough to "get" anything that deviates from the formula.

BB was a great attempt at departure, but there the studio was, jumping on couches as it were, cramming Katie Holmes down Nolan/Goyer's throat.

Can't have a Superhero movie without the damsel, the train and that amazing moustache.

I'm sick of trains......and, unless the damsel was a major comic character, I'm sick of that too....i dunno nothin bout the mustache though.

I'm just mad that the guy who started it all is still not getting his props. It'll probably be like begins, rising in BO if people like the movie

[AgentPat]

Pat: I was goofing on Oldguy, not trying to refute his claim. C'mon. Note the winky.LOLOLOL!! Sorry. I thought the winky was the for the "old fart" comment. LOL

<- Old fart herself. :O

[romeogbs19]

Caught this in Time the other day, too. I realized the critique wasn't particularly positive, but I doubt that Time has much influence on what summer blockbusters will do well. Let's be honest, plenty of bad movies sell despite critics' rants, and TIME is not recognized as an expert by any means.

I do think, however, that the writer does bring up a legitimate concern. SR is either going to be a huge hit or a big bust. I don't see it really falling in between, and there is some reason to be at least cautious about how this film might really do. The world, as Singer has said, has changed, and SR comes out at a time when movie-goers, esp. the fickle young crowd, prefer flicks like Hostel and Silent Hill ... It's hard to say whether that crowd, which makes up a significant chunk of current theater goers, are going to drive sales of SR.

As one in the media biz, I recall reading a few articles about this movie not too long ago that WB is actually aiming the movie towards A35-44 instead, touting the Reeve connection to entice dads/moms who grew up on Superman and want their younger kids to experience him. It's smart, IMO, and it also explains the more classic look of the hero here. Marketers are almost forgoing the teen crowd altogether. Comic junkies will come and the rest aren't likely to care much for SR anyways.

[ohmshalone]

Caught this in Time the other day, too. I realized the critique wasn't particularly positive, but I doubt that Time has much influence on what summer blockbusters will do well. Let's be honest, plenty of bad movies sell despite critics' rants, and TIME is not recognized as an expert by any means.

I do think, however, that the writer does bring up a legitimate concern. SR is either going to be a huge hit or a big bust. I don't see it really falling in between, and there is some reason to be at least cautious about how this film might really do. The world, as Singer has said, has changed, and SR comes out at a time when movie-goers, esp. the fickle young crowd, prefer flicks like Hostel and Silent Hill ... It's hard to say whether that crowd, which makes up a significant chunk of current theater goers, are going to drive sales of SR.

As one in the media biz, I recall reading a few articles about this movie not too long ago that WB is actually aiming the movie towards A35-44 instead, touting the Reeve connection to entice dads/moms who grew up on Superman and want their younger kids to experience him. It's smart, IMO, and it also explains the more classic look of the hero here. Marketers are almost forgoing the teen crowd altogether. Comic junkies will come and the rest aren't likely to care much for SR anyways.
Not to mention there's only about 2 months left and Warner have forgotten they still need to release a full trailer

[Tron5000]

I don't think it's aiming for an older demographic. I think it's attempting to appeal to everyone. And Superman does that. He crosses all kinds of boundaries and isn't limited to 1 group of people.

[Superman \S/]

This is why, as much as i love them, spider-man, wolverine, and batman piss me off. They've created this entirely overrated niche thats needed for a superhero film to make money. Frankly, a guy like Superman is what the world needs.

So, then why the hell did you name yourself The Batman? :rolleyes:

[The Batman]

So, then why the hell did you name yourself The Batman? :rolleyes:


Yeah...you certainly did miss the "As much as I love them".

:rolleyes:

[Hunter Rider]

Sounds like a fair enough article to me,,guy has an opinion that's all

[Superman \S/]

Yeah...you certainly did miss the "As much as I love them".

:rolleyes:

As much as you say you "love them," cleary you state that they "piss" you off. So anyway you look at it, seems you can't make up your mind.

[Fatboy Roberts]

I love plenty of things that piss me off. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[#1DanteBlade]

You know, what's funny. Everyone complains that Superman is bad because he is Do-gooder and they like Batman because he isn't, but Batman is also a do-gooder. He stops crime, beats up villians, and basically prevents some crimes from happening just so Gotham can be a better city. So technically, they can't use that do-gooding is a terrible thing excuse because they minus well say Batman is a 'lousy do-gooder' as well.

[SolidSnakeMGS]

I am now watching Superman TAS (I've never seen it before) and I got to the World's Finest episodes...which are great...and it was awesome when Superman put his hand on Batman and Batman flipped him on his red-underweared ass. I was like "oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"...

[thechubbysaint]

Anyhow...back on topic. The time pic looks like a good superboy movie.

[Tron5000]

edit

[Tron5000]

... because they minus well say ...


...really...

[AsteroidMan]

Where's the original essay/article from Playboy or somesuch that the mallrats dialogue was inspired by?

Actually it was an essay written by Larry Niven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Niven):

http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html

[Superchan]

I am now watching Superman TAS (I've never seen it before) and I got to the World's Finest episodes...which are great...and it was awesome when Superman put his hand on Batman and Batman flipped him on his red-underweared ass. I was like "oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"...

Yeah, what I loved even more was the bit when supes body slams ol big ears like a bus :supes:

[Super_Ludacris]

I am now watching Superman TAS (I've never seen it before) and I got to the World's Finest episodes...which are great...and it was awesome when Superman put his hand on Batman and Batman flipped him on his red-underweared ass. I was like "oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"...


I havent seen that movie in ages. I still have it lying around at the crib.