Anyone think Marvel plans to bring back Gwen? [Archive]

Eye Doc

04-28-2006, 11:15 AM

I know the idea sounds ridiculous. But the more I look at Marvel's track record of late, I wouldn't put it past them...especially with Gwen's arrival in Spider-Man 3.

1) Let's see, Marvel has brought back the GG when it appeared it could never happen.

2) The same thing happened with the Jakal.

3) Aunt May and Doc Ock were both ressurected (implausibly I must add) after their apparent deaths.

4) Over in Captain America, Bucky has returned with a vengeance!

I wouldn't be suprised at all if Gwen reappeared. I can even think of a way to do it. My idea sucks, but it really isn't any worse than the 3 Spidey stories I've cited above.

What do you guys think? If the marriage ends, do you think Gwen will reappear?

WOLVERINE25TH

04-28-2006, 11:18 AM

Why would this sound rediculous?

Norman Osborn

04-28-2006, 11:21 AM

Sadly I don't think it's any longer a case of "if" but rather "when" they do it!

Odin's Lapdog

04-28-2006, 11:26 AM

wouldn't it be cool if parker went home one day and found uncle ben and gwen stacey screwing on his bed?

Eye Doc

04-28-2006, 11:27 AM

Why would this sound rediculous?

When Gwen died, it on panel and in a believeable manner. Her neck broke. We saw her buried. And, we've probably had a thousand references to her death and its impact on Peter since she died in 1973. The story is considered one of the all time great/tragic stories in comics. Bringing her back would open a a large can of worms. And, even if you did bring her back, just what her role be?

Certain people think Gwen is Peter' s one true love and that she's the girl Peter should've married. Yet, Quesada doesn't want a married Peter. Wouldn't bringing her back seem ulmtimately (no pun intended) prove anticlimatic if Peter can never marry her? IMO, it seems like Marvel would figuratively have to move a mountain to bring her back, but gain very little in doing so.

Comments?

WOLVERINE25TH

04-28-2006, 11:34 AM

Heh obviously ya didn't get my inference. I meant why would it sound rediculous that they're plottin' to bring her back...in other words, I'd say it's comin'.

ben_reilly_s_s

04-28-2006, 12:07 PM

i vote for 2 or 3 months before the movie comes out.
How many regular spidey titles are there per monnth?
3 or 4
well take them all and during a 2 or 3 month timespan, and it will be about 6 to 14 issue spidey mega-crossover event like marvel seems to like doing now for some reason.
so just before the movie comes out there will be this big crossover and it ends the same week that the movie comes out and Gwen is back permanantly in the last issue of the crossover.
************************************************** **
on another note, part of a ret-con will be that Gwen never slept with norman, it was her clone and that is who he killed.

I know, how could there be a clone of Gwen created by Jackal if that is the event which sent him over the edge, but hey with JQ an JMS in charge, they'll think of something to destroy the Jackal next.

Dragon

04-28-2006, 12:27 PM

When Gwen died, it on panel and in a believeable manner. Her neck broke. We saw her buried. And, we've probably had a thousand references to her death and its impact on Peter since she died in 1973. The story is considered one of the all time great/tragic stories in comics. Bringing her back would open a a large can of worms. And, even if you did bring her back, just what her role be?

I've said it before. Even though I don't like the idea, of ALL the Marvel deaths Gwen's has the biggest back door. Spidey never makes physical contact with her until after she's died. We don't actually know how much time had passed between the Goblin grabbing her and the showdown on the bridge. And we know multiple clones were made of Gwen. The woman who died on the bridge could reasonably be a failed clone.

As for them ruining one of the great stories, Sins Past already did that.

And why would they bring her back? The same reason they keep bringing her back in ideological form. To break-up the marriage, and create new tension in Peter's romantic life. It's EASY for writers to write developing relationships. it's hard (not really, but if you stick to comic book formula it is) to write a marriage. For example, in FF, there's little time focused upon Reed & Sue's marriage. Luckily she's part of the team and so they don't have to worry about what to do with her. MJ is more difficult.

Certain people think Gwen is Peter' s one true love and that she's the girl Peter should've married. Yet, Quesada doesn't want a married Peter. Wouldn't bringing her back seem ulmtimately (no pun intended) prove anticlimatic if Peter can never marry her? IMO, it seems like Marvel would figuratively have to move a mountain to bring her back, but gain very little in doing so.

Comments?

I think Quesada believes that all of the sparks between the love triangle will carry Peter's romantic life for more than a few years. Look at how they pad out every tiny storyline. So, it will be a good while before Peter settles on one woman, if at all.

Now, we know that Quesada and his chosen inner circle have little real story telling skills, so of course this whole thing would blow-up in their faces as surely as the Totem Saga, Sins Past, The Other and IronSpidey has.

But they don't learn. And surely Gwen's return will mean a sales spike, and I guess for them that's all that matters.

Norman Osborn

04-28-2006, 12:31 PM

. And we know multiple clones were made of Gwen. The woman who died on the bridge could reasonably be a failed clone.
.

And I'm not asking this to be argumentative because I agree with your post but (and as someone else has already mentioned) how does Marvel retcon Miles Warren? The clones were clearly developed because of Warren's devastation over the death of Gwen.....how do we put the horse back in front of the cart?

Doc_OCK_4MUGEN

04-28-2006, 01:04 PM

Gwen will revive in a brand new Franklin boning Wanda internet shatterring big Fugly event... She'll become a brand new supervillain after ingesting Goblin Formula... If JMS writes it... it would've happened during the freaky goblin sex... She'll be the She-Goblin... or some stupid stuff like that... then she'll try to break up Pete's Marriage with MJ and she'll be the avatar of the innocent turned into an evil entity totem...

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 01:07 PM

Why not? There's little else that Marvel could do that would be more destructive/insulting at this point. They've already done everything else they possibly could to destroy Spider-Man. Why DON'T they bring Gwen back? That would be the icing on the cake.

Mara Jane

04-28-2006, 01:17 PM

I see bringing Gwen back as the final death throe for Spider-Man. He's pretty much jumped the shark as it is; making Gwen still be alive says to me that they have officially run out of stories to tell. All they can do is live off of past glories...

The really horrible thing about bringing her back, though, would have to be the reintroduction of her kids. *shudder*

Dragon

04-28-2006, 01:58 PM

And I'm not asking this to be argumentative because I agree with your post but (and as someone else has already mentioned) how does Marvel retcon Miles Warren? The clones were clearly developed because of Warren's devastation over the death of Gwen.....how do we put the horse back in front of the cart?

I feel like I'm aiding and abetting.. But Warren is easily dealt with as well. The 2nd Clone Saga already expanded quite a bit on the events in the first one.

The events around Gwen's death, Peter's origin have been retconned and altered. It would be easy enough to merely tweak Warren's actions. Remember that they only come from his mad ramblings to Spidey, not actual events in real time. Also, in his exposition, he speaks of going into denial and events being a blur. So, they explain that what Warren did after Gwebn's death was set in motion his plans against Spider-Man. But that he, obsessed with Gwen would start attempting the cloning process well before Gwen's death. Remember how in Warren's explanation he kept inserting a feeling like a "father" to her but without any real conviction? It's likely he felt something alot other than fatherly feelings for her, but couldn't admit it to Spidey. So it's reasonable that he embellished his entire confession to retain some semblance of dignity, just as he convinced himself it was "The Jackal" and not him that killed Serba.

Also, Warren was being manipulated by Osborn from the beginning. Osborn, who was financing the cloning process could have "borrowed" a clone subject, and hid the real Gwen in the lab. So, the clone that Peter encountered in ASM #144 could have been the real Gwen.

I feel so grimey after typing all of that. But there's your explanation.

Venom_uk

04-28-2006, 02:00 PM

wouldn't it be cool if parker went home one day and found uncle ben and gwen stacey screwing on his bed?
Ssssssh! Don't give them any ideas! :(

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 02:01 PM

I know....!

When Osborn f***** Gwen, he passed on his magical healing powers to her. So, after she "died", her broken neck repaired itself, and she went to find her kids in France, but Norman kept them hidden.

When she returns to New York, she'll have super-powers, and will become Spider-Man's crimefighting partner, much to Mary Jane's chagrin.

Captivated

04-28-2006, 02:02 PM

What a horrible idea. :mad:

When I get this stupid job I'm working on done, I'm going to have A LOT more to say on several topics here...

The "Gwen" of the movies is just a girl named Gwen. She cannot possible be THE Gwen from the comics as they clearly by passed that story line. That is why I think it was a bad move to bring in the name at this point.

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 02:04 PM

Norman Osborn

04-28-2006, 02:20 PM

. But that he, obsessed with Gwen would start attempting the cloning process well before Gwen's death. Remember how in Warren's explanation he kept inserting a feeling like a "father" to her but without any real conviction? It's likely he felt something alot other than fatherly feelings for her, but couldn't admit it to Spidey. So it's reasonable that he embellished his entire confession to retain some semblance of dignity, just as he convinced himself it was "The Jackal" and not him that killed Serba..

My knowledge of the Clone Saga is limited, for the most part, to ASM 40 years DVD...(simply because I'm not going back and buying that many back issues of anything) but I do recall this "fatherly" inference and I guess it would be as easy as saying...Warren lied about when he cloned Gwen:( .......

thanks :up:

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 02:25 PM

My knowledge of the Clone Saga is limited for the most part to ASM 40 years DVD...(simply because I'm not going back and buying that many back issues of anything) but I do recall this "fatherly" inference and I guess it would be as easy as saying...Warren lied about when he cloned Gwen:( .......

thanks :up:

When Conway wrote the original story (ASM # 149), it was hinted at that Warren was in love with Gwen, but made up the cover story that he felt like a "father" to her (much in the same vein as the "the Jackal killed Serba" delusion).

Later, when Conway revisited the material (in Spectacular Spider-Man # 149), it was explicitly stated that Wartren loved Gwen when Peter read it in Warren's journal.

Norman Osborn

04-28-2006, 02:38 PM

When Conway wrote the original story (ASM # 149), it was hinted at that Warren was in love with Gwen, but made up the cover story that he felt like a "father" to her (much in the same vein as the "the Jackal killed Serba" delusion).

I probably should have been more specific but I'm actually pretty well versed in the original Clone Saga as I was a 10 year old buying the original on release day :)..and of course the DVD..so I do recall the Gwen/Warren situation at that point

Later, when Conway revisited the material (in Spectacular Spider-Man # 149), it was explicitly stated that Wartren loved Gwen when Peter read it in Warren's journal.

This I have no knowledge of whatsoever as I'm assuming it's a 90's comic book?...I had loooooong left comics at that point....and I'm assuming there's a whole lot more secondary titles dealing with the Clone saga that I simply didn't bother tracking down....(The Lost Years being one of a few exceptions to that).....hell I just seen Wolverinth post another 50 he said he actually just acquired....I don't want to imagine how many there are if one of the Saga's biggest fan doesn't have them all...

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 02:44 PM

I probably should have been more specific but I'm actually pretty well versed in the original Clone Saga as I was a 10 year old buying the original on release day :)..and of course the DVD..so I do recall the Gwen/Warren situation at that point

This I have no knowledge of whatsoever as I'm assuming it's a 90's comic book?...I had loooooong left comics at that point....and I'm assuming there's a whole lot more secondary titles dealing with the Clone saga that I simply didn't bother tracking down....(The Lost Years being one of a few exceptions to that).....hell I just seen Wolverinth post another 50 he said he actually just acquired....I don't want to imagine how many there are if one of the Saga's biggest fan doesn't have them all...

After ASM # 150, the clone stuff was only followed up in Spectacular (Vol. 1 # 25-31, which was the original Carrion story.

After that, Conway brough back Gwen's clone in 1988's Spectacular # 141-142 and Annual # 8 (and revealed that the "clones" weren't clones at all, but were instead innocent people--Anthony Serba and Joyce Delaney--mutated by Warren's "genetic virus" into "Peter Parker" and "Gwen Stacy").

Spectacular # 149 (1989) dealt with Carrion (who was also explained as being an innocent exposed to a genetic virus, and not an "unliving" clone of Miles Warren).

After that (1994) came the infamous Clone Saga which undid Conway's retcons and brought back the Jackal and the Spider-Clone.

stillanerd

04-28-2006, 02:45 PM

You do realize I was being sarcastic, yes?

I think Captivated is reacting to the overall idea of Gwen even being brought back, Greg, not necessarily how it's done. And quite frankly, if Marvel did somehow retcon Gwen Stacy's death then it would make Sins Past seem like Shakespeare by comparison, because at that point the "Night Gwen Stacy Died" is officially worthless. Just as Ben died because Peter failed to act as Spider-Man, Gwen died because Peter was Spider-Man, and in both cases, neither one of them learned the truth about his double identity when they were alive. It not only underscored the themes of Spider-Man, it defined his character.

Now we see Uncle Ben has returned (albeit probably one from another dimension) so the idea of Gwen coming back, while unthinkable years ago, wouldn't shock any one--just royally piss them off. Maybe if "Gwen" turned out to be the Gwen clone from the original clone saga days, maybe it would be a little more exceptable, but still a cheap promotional stunt, especially if it happens right around the time of Spider-Man 3 which will have a Gwen.

(Of course, the movie Gwen I imagine will be treated in the same manner the movie MJ was: Raimi basically did a "brain transplant" in that moive MJ has the 616 MJ's background but 616 Gwen's personality, so I imagine that movie Gwen will have 616 Gwen's background but 616 MJ's personality).

If Marvel is foolish enough to do this, then I wouldn't be surprised if there was some larger plan at work, given the news that Joe Q and JMS want to "fix" Spider-Man, which for some reason makes me think of this wild idea/conspiracy theory I have for a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" for the Marvel Universe. After all, how do we know that this mini JMS and Joe Q are writing to "fix" Spider-Man isn't "Spider-Man: The End?"

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 02:51 PM

I think Captivated is reacting to the overall idea of Gwen even being brought back, Greg, not necessarily how it's done. And quite frankly, if Marvel did somehow retcon Gwen Stacy's death then it would make Sins Past seem like Shakespeare by comparison, because at that point the "Night Gwen Stacy Died" is officially worthless. Just as Ben died because Peter failed to act as Spider-Man, Gwen died because Peter was Spider-Man, and in both cases, neither one of them learned the truth about his double identity when they were alive. It not only underscored the themes of Spider-Man, it defined his character.

Now we see Uncle Ben has returned (albeit probably one from another dimension) so the idea of Gwen coming back, while unthinkable years ago, wouldn't shock any one--just royally piss them off. Maybe if "Gwen" turned out to be the Gwen clone from the original clone saga days, maybe it would be a little more exceptable, but still a cheap promotional stunt, especially if it happens right around the time of Spider-Man 3 which will have a Gwen.

(Of course, the movie Gwen I imagine will be treated in the same manner the movie MJ was: Raimi basically did a "brain transplant" in that moive MJ has the 616 MJ's background but 616 Gwen's personality, so I imagine that movie Gwen will have 616 Gwen's background but 616 MJ's personality).

If Marvel is foolish enough to do this, then I wouldn't be surprised if there was some larger plan at work, given the news that Joe Q and JMS want to "fix" Spider-Man, which for some reason makes me think of this wild idea/conspiracy theory I have for a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" for the Marvel Universe. After all, how do we know that this mini JMS and Joe Q are writing to "fix" Spider-Man isn't "Spider-Man: The End?"

At this point, shock tactics have little effect...except to engrage and mystify.

No one CARES anymore.

And Spider-Man has always been about CARING.

There's really nothing that can be done to further degrade/insult the characters. NOTHING that hasn't already been done.

Anything that comes next is icing on the cake.

Maybe it's really time for The End.

Maybe Spider-Man's day is done. At least the REAL Spider-Man's day.

Perhaps he'll return in 20 years, and will be restored for a new generation.

As it stands, the character now faces a slow and terminal disease.

And that's painful to watch.

Norman Osborn

04-28-2006, 02:54 PM

After that, Conway brough back Gwen's clone in 1988's Spectacular # 141-142 and Annual # 8 (and revealed that the "clones" weren't clones at all, but were instead innocent people--Anthony Serba and Joyce Delaney--mutated by Warren's "genetic virus" into "Peter Parker" and "Gwen Stacy").

Spectacular # 149 (1989) dealt with Carrion (who was also explained as being an innocent exposed to a genetic virus, and not an "unliving" clone of Miles Warren)..

Whoa!!....not only am I sure I didn't read that I'm fairly certain I've never heard it mentioned even here at the hype!!....In Dragon's post he actually mentions Serba but I assumed it was a secondary character whose name I was simply forgetting.

How well was this received??... cause I have to tell you, it sounds like a retcon from hell!

And didn't Carrion show up in Amazing later?....I know I read a Carrion story..(and if memory serves me correctly it also involved the character Shriek?) but I don't recall there ever being any discussion of a connection with the Clone Saga....

Dragon

04-28-2006, 02:55 PM

When Conway wrote the original story (ASM # 149), it was hinted at that Warren was in love with Gwen, but made up the cover story that he felt like a "father" to her (much in the same vein as the "the Jackal killed Serba" delusion).

Later, when Conway revisited the material (in Spectacular Spider-Man # 149), it was explicitly stated that Wartren loved Gwen when Peter read it in Warren's journal.

Yeah. When Gwen's clone stepped naked from the cloning tube, Warren wasn't too quick to cover her up, something a protective "father-figure" would do.

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 02:56 PM

Whoa!!....not only am I sure I didn't read that I'm fairly certain I've never heard it mentioned even here at the hype!!....In Dragon's post he actually mentions Serba but I assumed it was a secondary character whose name I was simply forgetting.

How well was this received??... cause I have to tell you, it sounds like a retcon from hell!

And didn't Carrion show up in Amazing later?....I know I read a Carrion story..(and if memory serves me correctly it also involved the character Shriek?) but I don't recall there ever being any discussion of a connection with the Clone Saga....

This lengthy series of articles will tell you everything you need to know about those stories and the Clone Saga itself. It's fascinating, if you can stomach the gory details:

The Life of Reilly:

http://www.newcomicreviews.com/GHM/specials/LifeOfReilly/1.html

WOLVERINE25TH

04-28-2006, 02:57 PM

Ironically, Greg, you'd like Ben Reilly. He's everythin' you clamor fer in a Spidey. Over. And over. And over. And over again.

Norman Osborn

04-28-2006, 03:00 PM

This lengthy series of articles will tell you everything you need to know about those stories and the Clone Saga itself. It's fascinating, if you can stomach the gory details:

The Life of Reilly:

http://www.newcomicreviews.com/GHM/specials/LifeOfReilly/1.html

thanks:up:

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 03:00 PM

Ironically, Greg, you'd like Ben Reilly. He's everythin' you clamor fer in a Spidey. Over. And over. And over. And over again.

When the books were split in two, with two titles going to Peter, two to Reilly, I read only the Reilly books.

It was still a poor imitation, but still better than the "I am the Spider" garbage.

Now go pester Herr Logan.

WOLVERINE25TH

04-28-2006, 03:07 PM

Only if you get a new bag of tricks and stop repeatin' yer damn self. You want Spidey perpetually young. We get it. Get over it.

Gregatron

04-28-2006, 03:10 PM

Only if you get a new bag of tricks and stop repeatin' yer damn self. You want Spidey perpetually young. We get it. Get over it.

I don't recall saying anything of the sort in this particular thread.

rscal

04-28-2006, 05:59 PM

[QUOTE=Eye Doc]When Gwen died, it on panel and in a believeable manner. Her neck broke. We saw her buried. And, we've probably had a thousand references to her death and its impact on Peter since she died in 1973. The story is considered one of the all time great/tragic stories in comics. Bringing her back would open a a large can of worms. And, even if you did bring her back, just what her role be?

um so is goblin coming back. stabbed in his chest didn't move and was one of the great stories of pete's time.

Certain people think Gwen is Peter' s one true love and that she's the girl Peter should've married. Yet, Quesada doesn't want a married Peter. Wouldn't bringing her back seem ulmtimately (no pun intended) prove anticlimatic if Peter can never marry her? IMO, it seems like Marvel would figuratively have to move a mountain to bring her back, but gain very little in doing so.

yup which won't stop them. end of clone saga remember that crap. peter isn't really peter. arrgh idiots. and his parents coming back as machine things and green goblin and aunt may. all of these charcters death were very purposeful and weren't that gimmicky unlike their returns.

Infinity9999x

04-28-2006, 06:43 PM

If they bring Gwen back, then I will never, ever, buy 616 spidey again. And I'll most likely spit on Joe Q if I ever see him if he ok'ed this.

SpideyInATree

04-28-2006, 07:13 PM

Sounds and looks to me that Gwen might be appearing in Spidey comics in the coming future. From what I saw of Loeb/Campbell's plans for their ongoing, and Campbell's sketches, we'll be seeing past stories containing Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn.

And with the word time travel getting thrown around with Spider-Man's name and JMS/Quesada working on a big Spidey event in winter to clean up continuity. Anything is possible at this point.

LarryLegend

04-28-2006, 08:42 PM

Well Ben is coming back, so Gwen likely will too. Marvel sucks right now.

storyteller

04-29-2006, 01:29 PM

I dount ben and gwen are really coming back. Gwen probably will reappear but not stay for long.

Vile

04-29-2006, 02:09 PM

She'll be in the movie - she'll come back in the comics.

Dyeathrose

04-29-2006, 04:44 PM

Mara Jane summed it up best for me, bring back Gwen Stacy is the equivilant to the death of Spider-man as I prefered. I was afraid after seeing the name Gwen on the cast, something like that was going to happen in the comics. If only for a strain in the marriage? The love-triangle that still exsists even if her body is six feet under and she lives with the rest of the dead girls?

Who knows, maybe this Gwen will be the push to get more buyers of Ultimate, and have her life sucked out of her by Venom. I put nothing past anything associated with Marvel anymore. Besides, I'd always figured the MJ of the movies was to be a GweMJ, as not to deal with her death and crank up the rating, therefore keeping kids who call to their guardians to buy the mechandise.