I think they should bring back Ben Reilly and Kaine

[JesusOfNazarath]

I never read any of the clone saga of issues that featured the characters, but I read the profiles of theirs and they seem like really cool characters.
Ben's http://www.marvel.com/universe/Reilly%2C_Ben
I like how in Ben's it says him and Pete were like brothers and whatnot.:)

Kaine's http://www.marvel.com/universe/Kaine


I wanna get the comics they were in, so what did it start in/run through ect...?

How would you bring them back?

[Citizen_Kaine]

Join the club pal

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210445

Nice to see Kaine getting some love on the Marvel page :up:

[JesusOfNazarath]

They seem like such cool characters and the concept of it seems great. Why do some people say it was so bad? Ben's Costume looks so cool too. I don't see why they needed to kill Ben for it to be over.:(

[Citizen_Kaine]

The whole execution of the Saga wasn't what it could of been, for one thing 2 years is quite along time for a story, and many people disliked the revelation that Peter Parker was a clone. People liked Ben, even the most adament of clone saga critics admit he was a great character, they just didn't appreciate the percieved replacement of Peter Parker.

Anyway like I said check it out for your self, it runs for two years starting from Web of Spider Man 117 (October 94) all the way to Peter Parker 75 (October 97) every single comic between these two issues are clone saga related.

The Reilly thread has the full list as well as the most important/key arcs and issues.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I should probably post that list on page 1.

And it's funny; Marvel pretends th' CS don't exist, yet they give two clones bios on their site. Go figger.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Done an' done. The official Clone Saga checklist is now on post 1 of th' OFOR thread.

[SpideyInATree]

If you want to catch up on the Clone Saga, you've got a LOT of back issues to buy, heh.

And bringing back Ben Reilly would be a very tough thing to do. Kaine, is a lot easier. If you're looking for some recent stuff with Kaine in it he appears in Spider-Girl. The only Spider-Man book that has guts to still acknowledge that the Clone Saga happened, because it's written by a fantastic Spidey writer, Tom Defalco.

Enjoy and good luck. :up:

[Eklypze]

(October 94) all the way to Peter Parker 75 (October 97) .

you do know thats 3 years right?

[SpideyInATree]

And that's how long the Clone Saga was. :)

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Check mycomicshop.com fer PPSM #75's release date if ya don't believe.

[JesusOfNazarath]

I should probably post that list on page 1.

And it's funny; Marvel pretends th' CS don't exist, yet they give two clones bios on their site. Go figger.


I added to Peter's significant issues box on his profile page about him having a clone and MJ having a baby. So they don't forget.:up: :)

[JesusOfNazarath]

And bringing back Ben Reilly would be a very tough thing to do. Kaine, is a lot easier.


I dunno, I think Ben could be brought back easy. Didn't he die on his first apprearance and Pete had to despose of his body? Why didn't the body turn to ash then? Or did it? If they did it then, then they could do it again.

[SIXXDOGG]

I loved Ben. I was extremely pissed when the killed him off because there was no need. They could have had two series. Peter as Spidey in New York and Ben as the Scarlet Spider in say...L.A.

I know Marvel can't keep anyone dead so I say bring him back during the Civil War story line.

[JesusOfNazarath]

I was actually thinking they might bring him back during the CW story. I hope they come out with a variant of him on the cover. I'd then have to go back on my word saying I wouldn't buy variants anymore. lol:D I'd be wroth it though, like the Hawkeye one was in the HoM story.

[Langoth]

I think they should bring Kaine and Ben back, just to more firmly kill them ;D

[SpideyInATree]

I was actually thinking they might bring him back during the CW story. I hope they come out with a variant of him on the cover. I'd then have to go back on my word saying I wouldn't buy variants anymore. lol:D I'd be wroth it though, like the Hawkeye one was in the HoM story.

There recently was a Spider-Man comic that had a variant cover with the Scarlet Spider. It was during The Other storyline and each issue had it's own variant cover of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man # 1. It had all the different costumes that Spidey has worn over the years. Scarlet Spider is one of them. So if you want to check that out, go to www.spiderfan.org and browse there to find which issue...because I'm not really sure off the top of my head.

I'd like to tell you exactly why bringing Ben Reilly back would be tough but I don't want to spoil the ending of Peter Parker Spider-Man # 75 for you.

But recent rumblings of JMS/Quesada teaming up on a Spidey mini that is suppposed to fix continuity errors and, from the rumor mill, it involves time traveling. So...Ben Reilly back in the Spidey comics? With a time machine it's possible and that's really the only thing I can see bring the Scarlet Spider back to us Ben Reilly fans. I hope it happens. But I'm not holding out much hope. :o

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Us Ben Reilly fans? Way you talk seems like you hate th' Clone Saga.

[SpideyInATree]

Well, if I said "US" Ben Reilly fans that means I'm including myself.

Now if I said, "You Ben Reilly fans" that would be excluding myself, therefore, I'd label myself "Clone Saga hater".

But I'm an "us" guy when it comes to the Clone Saga. :up:

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Shway.

And FYI, I meant way you talk in th' past sense.

[Rez]

I think it would be very easy to bring him back. There's quite the time lapse between when we see him last and then his final appearance that eventually leads to his death. And it went AGAINST continuity that he dies the way he dies, so you could easily pass the Ben you see die off as another quicky clone, ala those in Maximum Clonage.

[Citizen_Kaine]

I dunno, I think Ben could be brought back easy. Didn't he die on his first apprearance and Pete had to despose of his body? Why didn't the body turn to ash then? Or did it? If they did it then, then they could do it again.

Well Ben wasn't exactly dead back than, more like drugged out of his mind and thrown into a smokestack, as well the whole degeneration/ash thorey that Marvel used to prove beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt who was who, is extremely flawed, you'll notice that once you get into the Maximum Clonage portion of the book (Try to be brave while reading Omega, it'll be over quick :O)

[Joker]

Marvel have enough problems with Spidey right now,without bringing back problems from the past.Leave Kaine and Reilly in the past where they belong,along with the rest of the Clone Saga.

[hulkamania85]

I'd say Sins Past was worse than the Clone Saga. The Clone Saga was laughibly bad with the "oh Peter's the clone what no he's not" stuff, while Sins Past was just crapping on a classic story.

I'd like to see the Clone Saga stuff reprinted, at least the important parts. I'd sooner get that than trades of some of the Spider-Man stuff coming out now.

[JesusOfNazarath]

Well Ben wasn't exactly dead back than, more like drugged out of his mind and thrown into a smokestack, as well the whole degeneration/ash thorey that Marvel used to prove beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt who was who, is extremely flawed, you'll notice that once you get into the Maximum Clonage portion of the book (Try to be brave while reading Omega, it'll be over quick :O)


Okay I just read Alpha and it said in it Pete and Ben ran tests that said who was who. What happend to that theroy.:confused: Did Marvel just pretend that didn't happen? I also read in it there was a clone called Spidercide,couldn't they just say that the "Ben" who died was really a clone with Spidercide's morphing ability? I think that degeneration/ash theory is stupid. Who thaought of that ppffff:mad:

[JesusOfNazarath]

Marvel have enough problems with Spidey right now,without bringing back problems from the past.Leave Kaine and Reilly in the past where they belong,along with the rest of the Clone Saga.


They weren't bad parts though, so I don't see the need to get rid of that past.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Th' guy who ran th' tests faked th' results as a request of Gaunt as a request of Norman.

An' don't mind Ock, he's just bitter 'cause they killed off his favorite villain and he didn't like it too much.

[Citizen_Kaine]

Okay I just read Alpha and it said in it Pete and Ben ran tests that said who was who. What happend to that theroy.:confused: Did Marvel just pretend that didn't happen? I also read in it there was a clone called Spidercide,couldn't they just say that the "Ben" who died was really a clone with Spidercide's morphing ability? I think that degeneration/ash theory is stupid. Who thaought of that ppffff:mad:

Read the Osborn Journal One Shot, and you'll realize why the tests said that.

EIC Bob Harras thought it up, those writing the conclusion to Revelation told him that degeneration doesn't work that way but he said "in the case it does" Not sure if you've read the Life of Reilly yet its got a lot of interesting info about the Saga and what was going on in the background.

http://www.newcomicreviews.com/GHM/specials/LifeOfReilly/1.html

[MC2Spiderman]

id love for them to bring both these two back, if i did it for ben i would say the ben that was killed was just another clone that was under orders from osborn, the clone sacrificed himself and bam during this ben reilly was knocked out and cryoed by osborn

[Joker]

An' don't mind Ock, he's just bitter 'cause they killed off his favorite villain and he didn't like it too much.

I just knew that out of the few clone saga fan boys we have here,YOU would be the one to pipe up and make that stupid remark.

Pay careful attention now:

1.I'm not bitter over anything.I didn't like that Ock died in that saga yes.But I'm not bitter about it.And here's why.......
2.Ock's death was retconned.What's to be bitter about?? He's alive and kicking,and larger than life.

Now I know you just can't handle the fact that people just didn't genuinely like the clone saga,because I've seen you going around spouting your ignorant BS like "Everyone knows Ben Reilly is the best Spider-Man,even though they won't admit it".

Love the way you speak for everyone.You know what we like and what we're bitter about :rolleyes:

I think the clone saga SUCKED.Deal with it and move on.It should make no difference to you what people think about it.So don't go around dictating how we feel about things,just to make yourself feel better.You don't speak for everyone else,and you certainly don't speak for me.

Capeesh?? :)

P.S. If the only way you can respond to this is with petty insults,then don't even try it.Herr Logan might have humoured your trolling ways in the other thread,but I won't.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Sheesh, people can't take a joke. An' I believe you called me a troll when I've done nuttin' of th' kind, so if I was to respond with an insult it would be justified.

And I wouldn't gloat so much about Ock bein' back. Ninja resurrection? Matrix redesign? SUCTION CUPS on th' tenticles? Think he was better off dead. He was at least cooler before then.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Oh, and PS...Herr Logan is th' kinda ******* I'd punch in th' face should we ever be in th' same room. I have no quarrel with you, despite yer pitiful taste in comics. :P

[Joker]

Sheesh, people can't take a joke

Oh it was a joke now?? Sure ok,it's always a joke when they get called on it.

An' I believe you called me a troll when I've done nuttin' of th' kind, so if I was to respond with an insult it would be justified

You went into that JMS thread and insulted Herr Logan for posting a dictionary definition of a word he used to back up the debate he was having with someone.

That is trolling.And you continued on doing it,calling him all sorts of various names.

And I wouldn't gloat so much about Ock bein' back. Ninja resurrection? Matrix redesign? SUCTION CUPS on th' tenticles? Think he was better off dead. He was at least cooler before then.

Now look who's bitter.

I'm going to gloat alright.Just because you don't like Ramos version of him doesn't mean everyone does.I mean you're consistently praising a saga that many Spidey fans consider one of the worst periods in the Spidey comics.So if you want to try and rip on a temporary artist's rendition of Ock,then go for it.Not that I personally have a problem with Ramos style of Ock.

Btw you can bet you clone saga fan boys would eagerly accept a little ninja ressurrection if it meant getting your clone boys back :D

Oh, and PS...Herr Logan is th' kinda ******* I'd punch in th' face should we ever be in th' same room

Yeah yeah big man flexing his 'muscles' on the internet.Wow I'm impressed :rolleyes:

I have no quarrel with you, despite yer pitiful taste in comics. :P

My pitiful taste in comics?? Yeah I'm not the guy clinging onto the ghost of a character long gone and forgotten by most people :p

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Yes, that time was a joke. When have you known me to back down from a fight, as you so nicely pointed out there? If it wasn't a joke I'd own right up to it, but it was a joke an' that's why I said it was. I don't need to lie to a buncha faceless mopes that I'll never meet. Call me on whatever th' hell ya want, hopefully I'm of th' mind to give an adequate response when ya do.

No, I wouldn't praise a ninja resurrection 'cause they're lame and lack imagination. I WOULD praise a creative resurrection scenario. But, since current Marvel lacks said creative talent I'm not even thinkin' about it now. Wanna read some good ideas? Head into our Ben thread an' go back a few pages. Some fan scenarios in there that would rock.

And you actually LIKE th' redesign? I thought it was a lame an' cheesy move outta th' 70s. I mean, he's CALLED Doc Ock because after th' accident he had 8 limbs. His limbs were designed to aid in his science, meanin' they should bear no real resemblance to octopus tentacles. But, they suddenly decided "Oh, he's Doc Ock, so let's give him the full nines!" To me, that was unecessary. And sorry, but th' goth/emo look don't fit th' character. I actually liked when he was in a business suit. Made more sense than spandex an' a helluva lot more than this.

And FYI, this ":P" is a tongue smilie whatever, which meant that bit was a JOKE too. Too lazy to go advanced an' pull th' thing up and I can never remember th' codin' fer this board as every other board a :P would automatically convert.

I give as good as I get, bunky. People like Herr need to get taken down a peg or two here an' there. Just 'cause yer on th' web where ya can't face no reprocussions fer bein' a dick don't mean you have free license to be one. Oh, and FYI, all I said to him initially was he needed to get a life 'cause he was compeltely full of himself in that post. So if that's a huge insult, then I guess people gotta learn to take it if they dish it out. I treat *******s like *******s, that's how I am, that's what I do. Since they act that way then I ASSUME they must wanna be treated that way. And Herr is an admitted *******.

Like I said, I got no problem with you regarldess of what you might think. You gotta defend yer Ock like I gotta defend my Ben. Just a minor disagreement back then which I promptly got outta my mind once it was over.

[Joker]

Yes, that time was a joke. When have you known me to back down from a fight, as you so nicely pointed out there?

Believe it or not,I don't follow your every movement.Usually you're alright in this forum.Ocasionally you can come across a bit arrogant when it comes to your opinions.

But Logan never picked a fight with you.You waded right in and insulted him first.

If it wasn't a joke I'd own right up to it, but it was a joke an' that's why I said it was. I don't need to lie to a buncha faceless mopes that I'll never meet

A word of advice.Next time you crack a 'joke',add a smiley to it.Otherwise it's just words on a screen that look like serious context.

Call me on whatever th' hell ya want, hopefully I'm of th' mind to give an adequate response when ya do

I don't call people names.Not my style.

No, I wouldn't praise a ninja resurrection 'cause they're lame and lack imagination. I WOULD praise a creative resurrection scenario. But, since current Marvel lacks said creative talent I'm not even thinkin' about it now

Then blame Marvel,not Octavius.It's not a slur on his character that that's the method they chose to ressurrect him.He didn't pick it or plan it.The Rose's cult did.

But Spidey going around wearing that eye sore of a costume,or MJ keeping dirty secrets from Peter about Gwen for years.That's a slur on their characters.

And you actually LIKE th' redesign? I thought it was a lame an' cheesy move outta th' 70s. I mean, he's CALLED Doc Ock because after th' accident he had 8 limbs. His limbs were designed to aid in his science, meanin' they should bear no real resemblance to octopus tentacles. But, they suddenly decided "Oh, he's Doc Ock, so let's give him the full nines!" To me, that was unecessary. And sorry, but th' goth/emo look don't fit th' character. I actually liked when he was in a business suit. Made more sense than spandex an' a helluva lot more than this.

Yeah I like his redesign.Not my favorite Ock style,but it's not the worst.And I like his classic spandex look,and the armani suit and the trenchcoat look.It's all good.

You want to talk about bad designs,go look at what Spider-Man is wearing right now.

And FYI, this ":P" is a tongue smilie whatever, which meant that bit was a JOKE too. Too lazy to go advanced an' pull th' thing up and I can never remember th' codin' fer this board as every other board a :P would automatically convert. But yer gonna precieve anythin' I do how you want so I don't care.

You didn't use any tongue smiley in your original post.

I give as good as I get, bunky. People like Herr need to get taken down a peg or two here an' there. Just 'cause yer on th' web where ya can't face no reprocussions fer bein' a dick don't mean you have free license to be one

If you find someone is being a 'dick' then report them.Don't make yourself as bad as those you're persecuting by slinging vicious insults at them.

Oh, and FYI, all I said to him initially was he needed to get a life 'cause he was compeltely full of himself in that post. So if that's a huge insult, then I guess people gotta learn to take it if they dish it out

You attacked him because he posted a dictionary link explaining a word,which helped back up a debate he was in.

What the hell is so wrong with that??

I treat *******s like *******s, that's how I am, that's what I do. Since they act that way then I ASSUME they must wanna be treated that way. And Herr is an admitted *******.

Herr was minding his own business,debating with someone else.You came along and insulted him.Herr doesn't wade in and rip into someone simply because he dislikes how they back up their arguements.

Like I said, I got no problem with you regarldess of what you might think. You gotta defend yer Ock like I gotta defend my Ben

I've got nothing to defend.Ock's popularity hasn't waned since he was introduced over 40 years ago.And I expect it'll be the same in another 40 years time.Just like Spidey.Why do you think he was ressurrected so quickly?? Fans kicked up a stink over his death.I wish Marvel were as prompt about fixing Spidey's current mess as they were with Ock's death.But then Joe Q wasn't in charge back then :)

And Ock's had some cracking stories since his ressurrection.If the only complaint is his new look,then I'm greatful.Because other characters are getting it much worse right now with characterization and design.

Just a minor disagreement back then which I promptly got outta my mind once it was over.

As I said above,the next time you crack a joke,use a smiley or two.I'm not a mind reader.Otherwise it looks like you're being completely serious.

[Herr Logan]

Herr doesn't wade in and rip into someone simply because he dislikes how they back up their arguements.

Well... that's not strictly true. :o

If I see someone throwing infantile and erroneous arguments at their betters, I'm sorely tempted to jump in and call them on it. I just haven't done that as much in recent months. Some people call it "growth." I call it what it is-- "laziness."

But you're damn right I'd never disparage someone simply for the fact that they used real evidence to back up their argument, and when one person's argument can be utterly destroyed simply by showing them that their argument is worded incorrectly (which is the case in the "grown-up world," and whether or not policy law is fair or sensible, it owns each and every last one of you... believe it), a dictionary definition is all that's needed.

I went through the same nonsense with some gutter-trash plebeian over a year ago when he made a thread about how Wolverine is a "wimp." I definitively disproved his worthless, puerile argument simply by showing him the definition of "wimp," and he still wouldn't act like a grown-up. I argued his individual smaller arguments (how much he loses, how many arch-villains he failed to kill, etc.) as well, but I didn't need to.

He lost that argument before he even thought of posting it, whether he's man enough to admit it or not, and the same goes for anyone who thinks that Spider-Man has ever been an "everyman" before Marvel decided to strip him of his unique character traits and make him a bumbling moron. That's only in the last few years, and that doesn't reflect at all on Spider-Man's actual creative origins.

By the way, necessary or not, the defense is much appreciated, Ock. ;) :up:

:wolverine

[Popo 85]

Wolvie25th: "...a buncha faceless mopes."

Thanks for that...

I'm not sure what happened in the other thread you guys are talking about, but just reading through this thread alone, it did come off to me as a joke. That's how I read it anyway. It'd be like if we said Lizard (poster) didn't like the Feral storyline because Black Cat knocked him off the roof and he had to spend time recoving from it.

Though it's probably none of my business, so I'll butt out...

[Popo 85]

Here's my problem. I love the Green Goblin. I think he's a great arch nemesis, and I like him alive and torturing Spider-Man.

I like Aunt May. In fact, I love all of Spidey's supporting cast members. But Aunt May, MJ, and Jolly Jonah are the ones that I especially feel Peter needs.

Yet so many people here complain about their resurrections. ...and a lot of them want Ben Reilly back.

I've always thought of Ben's death as fairly close to Harry's death. Mostly in that "saving people as a last action," sad kinda way. Ben saved the lives of all of the Daily Bugle employees, and some other supporting cast that were there, stood up to Norman, beaten as he was, and jumped out and took a glider for Pete. Noble death. Touching story. Very emotional. Everything that May and Harry's were. Yet people swear up and down how May's death was "tarnished" and Harry had better stay down, having had such a beautiful death.

I mean, you see my point, right?

[ragingdemon155]

I would have a problem with Marvel bringing Ben Reilly back. I'm all for Kaine returning though. Could simply just come up with a "He's been away hiding for a long time" story for Kaine. Reilly kind of left a bad taste with a majority of the Spider-fans just cause he was meant to "replace" Peter. He's dead now though.

But like I said, I'm all for Kaine returning. He was just completely badass. I enjoyed Ben Reilly has a character but I think he's best left buried.

[Galactus]

Ben should stay dead. It's just impossible to bring him back without more tired and overused plot-twists.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Sure, if anyone other than Dan Slott writes it.

[RAMORE]

Ben should stay dead. It's just impossible to bring him back without more tired and overused plot-twists.

no it's not go to the ben reilly appreciation thread and there are a number of really great ideas you could use.

[spidey-dude]

Ben should stay dead. It's just impossible to bring him back without more tired and overused plot-twists.

It really isn't, if anything his death was flawed seeing as thats how only the degenerative clones die (and im not even sure they went into dust) the spider skelton clone found in the smokestack proves that, so his turning into ashes made no sense unless it was another already degenerative cloen and Ben (a perfect clone) was still alive (or dead he could be dead BUT HE WOULD BE A FREAKING SKELETON NOT DUST!!!) yeah so they just need to explain that, it's not even a retcon it's just finding flaws in his badly thought out death

[SpideyInATree]

Shway.

And FYI, I meant way you talk in th' past sense.

Because the Clone Saga was in the past? :confused:

[littleredhat]

I hate the idea that these two important characters just got sweeped under the rug as if they never exsisted.

I think it has to do with my loving spider-man so much. Often times comic creators will try capitalize off a popular character by making another related version of the character usually a younger or female version.

These characters can be quite good but most are just plain lame.

Ben was different. He was Peter. In mind body and heart. He wasn't a cheap copy.

He was a mint condition replica.:)

And after all the angst and misunderstandings he developed into Peter's twin from a tube. Laughing about shared childhood memories and protecting eachother.

Unlike most clones and duplicates who whine and complain and never get over themselves.:mad:

They should bring back the Scarlet-Spider and baby May. After all she is going to need her uncle Ben.:spidey: