Batman OYL discussion thread

[sinewave]

I couldn't find a OYL thread for Bats so I created one. If one already existst please merge this one with it. Thanks.



Okay, anyone else happy that the Ventriloquist and Scarface are finally dead? That was perhaps Batman's lamest villain. R.I.P. I hope they are serious about cleaning up his rogues gallery, because it's in need of a little pruning. Anyone else agree?

[nite-owl]

Yeah I agree I never liked those two anyway. But what I loved about it the most is that Batmans not a dick anymore, him and Robin are a team again and Gordons back as the comishner. This is probably my favourite OYL that I am getting along side Robin, Superman and I still need to get the Teen Titans OYL.

[hippie_hunter]

I am enjoying OYL, except for Nightwing which is complete garbage.

[Nightwing]

Okay, anyone else happy that the Ventriloquist and Scarface are finally dead? That was perhaps Batman's lamest villain. R.I.P. I hope they are serious about cleaning up his rogues gallery, because it's in need of a little pruning. Anyone else agree?

Along with Magpie. The Face the Face arc for OYL is one I'm really enjoying, Bruce is no longer pushing anyone away and has rebuilt his partnership with Tim again. I liked how he told Tim that he can see the potential in him to be even better then Dick was when he was wearing the mask, Batman #652 is out tomorrow. Don Kramer spoke about working on the issue and arc which included preview pages of it, it can be seen here. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Kramer.html)

I am enjoying OYL, except for Nightwing which is complete garbage.

Indeed, all the other titles are proving to be worth reading for OYL. I've dropped Nightwing after issue #119, and already explained my reasons why.

[sinewave]

Along with Magpie. The Face the Face arc for OYL is one I'm really enjoying, Bruce is no longer pushing anyone away and has rebuilt his partnership with Tim again. I liked how he told Tim that he can see the potential in him to be even better then Dick was when he was wearing the mask, Batman #652 is out tomorrow. Don Kramer spoke about working on the issue and arc which included preview pages of it, it can be seen here. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Kramer.html)



Indeed, all the other titles are proving to be worth reading for OYL. I've dropped Nightwing after issue #119, and already explained my reasons why.

yeah, i'm digging batman, robin and superman OYL. i completely agree with your statement on nightwing. they're butchering that book with crappy writing, characterization and even worse art. yuck! :(

[hippie_hunter]

Aside from the crappy design they gave Dick (mullet and the utility belt/harness thingy), the art is one of Nightwing's least worries.

[sinewave]

Aside from the crappy design they gave Dick (mullet and the utility belt/harness thingy), the art is one of Nightwing's least worries.

maybe but it completely throws me off the story. it's so inconsistent from one page to the next. nightwing deserves much better.

[Nightwing]

yeah, i'm digging batman, robin and superman OYL. i completely agree with your statement on nightwing. they're butchering that book with crappy writing, characterization and even worse art. yuck! :(

Until all that's corrected, I won't be picking up the book till then. Though, with the route it's going I don't think it'll be back in my list for a good long time. The whole year jump for Nightwing has been a total disaster, from him proposing to Barbara before it began to him now sleeping with random women he hasn't even introduced him self too. And it seems it'll only get worse as the woman he slept with (Cheyenne Freemont) looks to be donning a Nightwing suit of her own in July's issue.

Aside from the crappy design they gave Dick (mullet and the utility belt/harness thingy), the art is one of Nightwing's least worries.

Exactly. I dislike the fact that he uses a utility belt, only because his gauntlets were supposed to serve as his own. Now, they've given Jason his old look.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I dunno, Nightwing seems kinda fine to me.......making him a total man whore is cool with me.

[trustyside-kick]

I find it interesting in One Year Later that it seems Harvey since he has been cured was basic like a vigilante why Bats was gone.

[Nightwing]

I find it interesting in One Year Later that it seems Harvey since he has been cured was basic like a vigilante why Bats was gone.

Bullock's characterization for OYL is something I'm also enjoying, just look at this page for issue #652 on sale tomorrow.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Apr06previews/BM652p01.jpg

[hippie_hunter]

I dunno, Nightwing seems kinda fine to me.......making him a total man whore is cool with me.

No it isn't, because it was a great scene in Nightwing #117 where Dick proposed to Barbara and that completely threw that scene down the gutters. It's out of character for him, it's stupid, and frankly the fans want him to be with either Oracle or Starfire not sleeping around with random women like Arsenal or Green Arrow. Nightwing seems completely noobish, Jason Todd was awesome as the Red Hood, but is stupid as Nightwing. Dick should have never wished that the Joker finished off his OWN FREAKING BROTHER, he should be in Gotham now that Bludhaven is destroyed not New York City, that or with the Outsiders presumed dead like the others. There is just so much to rant about this crap.

DC will probally ignore this arc of Nightwing and it will be quietly forgotten sooner or later.

[Mee]

I like Gordon and Bullock being back. Robin's around too much for my taste so far. Part of making Bats a nicer guy I guess, which I dunno if I like.

[hippie_hunter]

It's a good change after a long and overused period of time of douchebag Batman.

[trustyside-kick]

I like Gordon and Bullock being back. Robin's around too much for my taste so far. Part of making Bats a nicer guy I guess, which I dunno if I like.

I like that he is. Reminds me of the TAS days. :)

[Mee]

It's a good change after a long and overused period of time of douchebag Batman.
I didn't think he was that bad. Sure some writers made him that way, and I guess it got worse after Identity Crisis and the whole Omac and Max Lord thing, but I like Bats dark and suspicious of everything. (to an extent)

[hippie_hunter]

I didn't think he was that bad. Sure some writers made him that way, and I guess it got worse after Identity Crisis and the whole Omac and Max Lord thing, but I like Bats dark and suspicious of everything. (to an extent)

War Crimes, No Man's Land, Tower of Babel, Green Lantern: Rebirth, and other stories have portrayed Batman as a complete douche. He can still be dark and suspicious, but can't he show a tad bit of respect to his comrades.

[trustyside-kick]

War Crimes, No Man's Land, Tower of Babel, Green Lantern: Rebirth, and other stories have portrayed Batman as a complete douche. He can still be dark and suspicious, but can't he show a tad bit of respect to his comrades.

How did those storylines make him seem like a douche? Curious cause I have not read some of those.

[hippie_hunter]

How did those storylines make him seem like a douche? Curious cause I have not read some of those.

War Games: Batman takes over the GCPD, ignores Oracle, willing to throw away his life, came up with a plan to take over every gang in Gotham City

No Man's Land: temporarily abandons Gotham, takes away the mantle of Batgirl from the Huntress after she failed in a mission that was impossible to succeed, refused help from other superheroes

Officer Down: acted like a little whiney b***h after Gordon got shot, left most of the work to his sidekicks

War Drums: fired Stephanie Brown for only trying to help him

Under the Hood: treated Zatanna with extreme disrespect

Nightwing: Year One: fired Dick Grayson for his work in the Titans

JLA: Tower of Babel: came up with contingency plans to defeat the members of the JLA and other superheroes

Outsiders: Wanted: funded the Outsiders secretly without telling Nightwing

the Flash: The Secret of Barry Allen: pinned the Flash against the wall telling him that if he doesn't handle his rogues, he will

Green Lantern: Rebirth: hated Hal Jordan

the OMAC Project: came up with the Brother Mk. I satelite system, treated Booster Gold with disrespect, rejected Wonder Woman's friendship after she saved his life and killed Max Lord when she had no choice

Infinite Crisis: tells Superman that he is no longer inspiring

[warren_sparta27]

OYL has been great seeing Bullock back.
and Gordon back as commish, and Batman and Robin wokring together well.
see what happens when you don't act like a complete *******.

[Shoegazer]

Bullock kicks ass. I hope he's around for a long time.

[Mister J]

I'm enjoying OYL . They've eliminated the Batman Prick Factor and have shown an emphasis on the relationships that make the Batman universe great.

[trustyside-kick]

War Games: Batman takes over the GCPD, ignores Oracle, willing to throw away his life, came up with a plan to take over every gang in Gotham City

No Man's Land: temporarily abandons Gotham, takes away the mantle of Batgirl from the Huntress after she failed in a mission that was impossible to succeed, refused help from other superheroes

Officer Down: acted like a little whiney b***h after Gordon got shot, left most of the work to his sidekicks

War Drums: fired Stephanie Brown for only trying to help him

Under the Hood: treated Zatanna with extreme disrespect

Nightwing: Year One: fired Dick Grayson for his work in the Titans

JLA: Tower of Babel: came up with contingency plans to defeat the members of the JLA and other superheroes

Outsiders: Wanted: funded the Outsiders secretly without telling Nightwing

the Flash: The Secret of Barry Allen: pinned the Flash against the wall telling him that if he doesn't handle his rogues, he will

Green Lantern: Rebirth: hated Hal Jordan

the OMAC Project: came up with the Brother Mk. I satelite system, treated Booster Gold with disrespect, rejected Wonder Woman's friendship after she saved his life and killed Max Lord when she had no choice

Infinite Crisis: tells Superman that he is no longer inspiring

Whoa, you went into detail. lol.

[Mee]

War Games: Batman takes over the GCPD, ignores Oracle, willing to throw away his life, came up with a plan to take over every gang in Gotham City

No Man's Land: temporarily abandons Gotham, takes away the mantle of Batgirl from the Huntress after she failed in a mission that was impossible to succeed, refused help from other superheroes

Officer Down: acted like a little whiney b***h after Gordon got shot, left most of the work to his sidekicks

War Drums: fired Stephanie Brown for only trying to help him

Under the Hood: treated Zatanna with extreme disrespect

Nightwing: Year One: fired Dick Grayson for his work in the Titans

JLA: Tower of Babel: came up with contingency plans to defeat the members of the JLA and other superheroes

Outsiders: Wanted: funded the Outsiders secretly without telling Nightwing

the Flash: The Secret of Barry Allen: pinned the Flash against the wall telling him that if he doesn't handle his rogues, he will

Green Lantern: Rebirth: hated Hal Jordan

the OMAC Project: came up with the Brother Mk. I satelite system, treated Booster Gold with disrespect, rejected Wonder Woman's friendship after she saved his life and killed Max Lord when she had no choice

Infinite Crisis: tells Superman that he is no longer inspiring
I'll agree some of those were too much. But you can look at other stories, Hush, Broken City, he wasn't a complete jerk in those.

[hippie_hunter]

I'll agree some of those were too much. But you can look at other stories, Hush, Broken City, he wasn't a complete jerk in those.

Hence why I didn't list them.

But you are right on some being to much, he at least had the right to be a complete douche to Zatanna and had a reason not to tell Dick that he was funding the Outsiders, but they were still rather douchebaggy things.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Whoa, you went into detail. lol.I'll second that LOL:up:

[Dope Nose]

here's the problem I have with Magpie's death in Batman #651 - she was already mentioned as having been killed in the first or second issue of Superman/Batman, long before this issue came out.

Superboy Prime strikes again.

[Fledermaus]

I've been saying it since the first OYL, Robin is a full-on badass now.
Batman 652:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Sam655321/BadassRobin.jpg

[hippie_hunter]

Look at Killer Moth try and feel up Robin :(

[Ultimate_Superman]

^ Its Dick all over again.

[Dope Nose]

is this a new Killer Moth? last I heard the original had been transformed into Charaxes after selling his soul to Neron.

[Fledermaus]

He still looks all freaky to me. Check out Killer Moths ears and face, I don't think thats a mask.

[The Flash!]

I've been saying it since the first OYL, Robin is a full-on badass now.
Batman 652:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Sam655321/BadassRobin.jpg

I've got to get this issue!!! :eek: :up:

[trustyside-kick]

I think my bro just got that issue. I'll check it out later.

[Fledermaus]

Has anybody here seen the Wizard preview for the first issue of the "Batman and Son" arc?
I saw it at my comic shop today. Two words. Holy s**t.

[Mee]

Has anybody here seen the Wizard preview for the first issue of the "Batman and Son" arc?
I saw it at my comic shop today. Two words. Holy s**t.
Haven't seen it. Anybody got some scans?

[trustyside-kick]

Has anybody here seen the Wizard preview for the first issue of the "Batman and Son" arc?
I saw it at my comic shop today. Two words. Holy s**t.

Batman and Son?

[Fledermaus]

Yes. Batman and Son

[trustyside-kick]

Could you explain more about it since I don't know what that is? If it is a spoiler or something just do the spoiler code thing.

[Katsuro]

When does Batman and Son start? is it gonna immediatley follow "Face the Face"?

Also, to trustyside-kick, Batman and Son is an upcoming storyarc that supposedly brings Son of the Demon back into continuity (the story where Bruce and Talia had a child).

[Fledermaus]

From what I remember Batman and Son starts out with Gordon falling from a rooftop after being poisoned by the Joker. He is caught. Then a splash page of the Joker standing over a badly beaten Batman. The next thing I remember seeing is the Joker getting shot in the head by another Batman. The next page is Batman holding the Joker, a little reminiscent of Death in the Family. That's all I got.

[trustyside-kick]

Interesting. :eek:

[hippie_hunter]

Batman and Son?

Yes, because Morrison is putting Ibn al Xu'ffasch back into continuity.

[Mee]

I still think Bats having a kid is dumb.

[Fledermaus]

From the short preview I saw in Wizard, I dont' think it Ibn. I've already got an idea about it though. What other kid does Bruce has who's been running around dressed as everybody excpet himself? Red Hood? "killer" Nightwing?

[Mee]

From the short preview I saw in Wizard, I dont' think it Ibn. I've already got an idea about it though. What other kid does Bruce has who's been running around dressed as everybody excpet himself? Red Hood? "killer" Nightwing?
That's what I've been hoping. That it's about one of Bruce's adopted sons or it's some kind of scam set up by some villain and the kid isn't really Bruce's.

[sinewave]

From the short preview I saw in Wizard, I dont' think it Ibn. I've already got an idea about it though. What other kid does Bruce has who's been running around dressed as everybody excpet himself? Red Hood? "killer" Nightwing?

i was thinking that and it would really piss me off. first he dresses up like robin, then the red hood, then nightwing, now batman???? that's terribly unoriginal writing. he needs his own unique id.

[cass]

War Games: Batman takes over the GCPD, ignores Oracle, willing to throw away his life, came up with a plan to take over every gang in Gotham City

He has to because an idiot girl used tried to impress him.

No Man's Land: temporarily abandons Gotham, takes away the mantle of Batgirl from the Huntress after she failed in a mission that was impossible to succeed, refused help from other superheroes

Abandoned Gotham to try to convince the Government from making it a No Man's Land. Tried to prevent another Jason Todd by taking away the Batgirl mantle, especially from someone who is a known killer.

Officer Down: acted like a little whiney b***h after Gordon got shot, left most of the work to his sidekicks

Gordon was his best friend.

War Drums: fired Stephanie Brown for only trying to help him

Trying to prevent another Jason Todd.

Under the Hood: treated Zatanna with extreme disrespect

She mindwiped him.

Nightwing: Year One: fired Dick Grayson for his work in the Titans

He didn't want Dick to overstretch himself.

JLA: Tower of Babel: came up with contingency plans to defeat the members of the JLA and other superheroes

In case there are betrayals such as Parallax, and a Max Lord controlled Superman.

Outsiders: Wanted: funded the Outsiders secretly without telling Nightwing

Why does he have to tell Nightwing?

the Flash: The Secret of Barry Allen: pinned the Flash against the wall telling him that if he doesn't handle his rogues, he will

He's a control freak.

Green Lantern: Rebirth: hated Hal Jordan

Parallax.

the OMAC Project: came up with the Brother Mk. I satelite system, treated Booster Gold with disrespect, rejected Wonder Woman's friendship after she saved his life and killed Max Lord when she had no choice

Mindwiped.

Infinite Crisis: tells Superman that he is no longer inspiring

The truth hurts.

[Mee]

The truth hurts.
But it shall set you free. If you can handle it that is.

[trustyside-kick]

The truth hurts.

Wow, that guy made a good comeback. The mainly thing I will back him up on though are the parts about preventing another Jason Todd. And doesn't it make sense why he fired Stephanie Brown? She screwed up his like back up plan (the whole Matches Malone thing).

[cass]

But it shall set you free. If you can handle it that is.

Exactly, and that's what it did. Supes actually matters now with the Crisis.

[trustyside-kick]

I was thinking about reading Superman: OYL but the thing is I do not stay up to date with Superman so I would be confused or something. I wish I knew more about his storylines but I am way more of a Batman fan. Plus not enough time to read about all of the superheroes I like. =P

[hippie_hunter]

He has to because an idiot girl used tried to impress him.
No, he didn't have to treat everyone else poorly. He didn't have to take control over the GCPD.

Abandoned Gotham to try to convince the Government from making it a No Man's Land. Tried to prevent another Jason Todd by taking away the Batgirl mantle, especially from someone who is a known killer.

No, he abandoned Gotham City because he was disallusioned because of the government abandoning Gotham City, and other events prior to that. He had a moment of weakness, it was not to make a point. The Huntress was not another Jason Todd case, she was very capable, hence why he invited her to join the Justice League of America, and she was not a killer, just a woman filled with anger, who beleived that certain people deserved to die. He gave her a mission that was impossible to fulfill and he expected her to succeed flawlessly. He took the mantle of Batgirl away from her because she was "not good enough" to be part of the Batman family.

Gordon was his best friend.
And Gordon was Oracle's father, and she did more than Batman. Batman should have been there to try and track down Gordon's assassin along with Robin, Nightwing, Azrael, and Batgirl. Also he alienated Alfred to where he decided to leave Bruce's employ.

Trying to prevent another Jason Todd.
If he wanted to prevent another Jason Todd, he wouldn't have made her Robin in the first place he would have made it harder for the Spoiler to continue her activities. He made her Robin giving her hopes, aspirations, and dreams, and he snatched them away from her without giving her a chance to prove herself.

She mindwiped him.
Hence why I said it was understandable.

He didn't want Dick to overstretch himself.
Yet it was okay for Batman to be a member of the Justice League and the Outsiders and manage his own team of vigilantes. Hypocritical. Robin taking down Brother Blood for good was more important than Clayface kidnapping a baby, and despite all that Dick still managed to do both.

In case there are betrayals such as Parallax, and a Max Lord controlled Superman.
Like Wonder Woman said, Batman should have told them about the contingency plans but he didn't have to go into detail about the schematics of the plans.

Why does he have to tell Nightwing?
Maybe because Nightwing was the leader of the Outsiders and is his own son for Christs sakes. He had no need for all the secrecy. I would kinda like to know who was paying me and funding my team.

He's a control freak.
Yes he is, it's a reason why he is considered to be a douche. But he told that to the Flash in anger, saying that his rouges were incompetent and the Flash wasn't capable of handling them. What does that tell you what Batman is telling the Flash?

Parallax.
Ever hear of atonement, also Parallax was a separate entity that took advantage of Hal Jordan's greif. There's a difference between not trusting someone and acting like a complete douchebag towards them when they are trying to do the right thing.

Mindwiped.
Batman went way too far with creating Brother Mk. I.

The truth hurts.
The tie-in issues of Superaman and Infinite Crisis itself, have proven that Batman was wrong. Superman is still an inspiration to those here on Earth, before and AFTER he died.

[trustyside-kick]

:eek:

Lol. Another long and elaborate come back. Wonder what cass will say.

[cass]

No, he didn't have to treat everyone else poorly. He didn't have to take control over the GCPD.

It was all part of his plan.


No, he abandoned Gotham City because he was disallusioned because of the government abandoning Gotham City, and other events prior to that. He had a moment of weakness, it was not to make a point. The Huntress was not another Jason Todd case, she was very capable, hence why he invited her to join the Justice League of America, and she was not a killer, just a woman filled with anger, who beleived that certain people deserved to die. He gave her a mission that was impossible to fulfill and he expected her to succeed flawlessly. He took the mantle of Batgirl away from her because she was "not good enough" to be part of the Batman family.

He left Gotham to argue for it to be saved. He also had to come up with his own plan to save Gotham since all else failed. Huntress was a dangerous individual who he invited to the JLA to monitor. He took Batgirl away from her because it's possible that she could've snapped while wearing the bat logo and caused more strife with Gordon than he already had at the moment.


And Gordon was Oracle's father, and she did more than Batman. Batman should have been there to try and track down Gordon's assassin along with Robin, Nightwing, Azrael, and Batgirl. Also he alienated Alfred to where he decided to leave Bruce's employ.

Emotional trauma by losing his best friend. He has weaknesses, he does screw up, he's only human.

If he wanted to prevent another Jason Todd, he wouldn't have made her Robin in the first place he would have made it harder for the Spoiler to continue her activities. He made her Robin giving her hopes, aspirations, and dreams, and he snatched them away from her without giving her a chance to prove herself.

But he realzied she very well could've been a Jason Todd and fired her to try and prevent that.


Hence why I said it was understandable.


Yet it was okay for Batman to be a member of the Justice League and the Outsiders and manage his own team of vigilantes. Hypocritical. Robin taking down Brother Blood for good was more important than Clayface kidnapping a baby, and despite all that Dick still managed to do both.

He's Batman. Dick's not.


Like Wonder Woman said, Batman should have told them about the contingency plans but he didn't have to go into detail about the schematics of the plans.

"Hey guys, I have plans to take you down if you ever go rogue. so...uh...be ready." WTF?

Maybe because Nightwing was the leader of the Outsiders and is his own son for Christs sakes. He had no need for all the secrecy. I would kinda like to know who was paying me and funding my team.

He's the goddamn Batman.


Yes he is, it's a reason why he is considered to be a douche. But he told that to the Flash in anger, saying that his rouges were incompetent and the Flash wasn't capable of handling them. What does that tell you what Batman is telling the Flash?

He said if Flash didn't handle them, he would. He told Flash to do his job. That's not being a douche.

Ever hear of atonement, also Parallax was a separate entity that took advantage of Hal Jordan's greif. There's a difference between not trusting someone and acting like a complete douchebag towards them when they are trying to do the right thing.

It's his mindset that Hal opened himself up to it. Hal was responiable for lots of death and strife. Batman doesn't forget, ever.

Batman went way too far with creating Brother Mk. I.

Possibly. But he deemed it necessary because of the mindwipe, and because of the possibilities of those going rogue.


The tie-in issues of Superaman and Infinite Crisis itself, have proven that Batman was wrong. Superman is still an inspiration to those here on Earth, before and AFTER he died.

Batman said that before hand. It inspired Supes to be better. The truth hurts, but it sets you free.

[hippie_hunter]

It was all part of his plan.
The plan didn't even need to exist in the first place. The results of Batman's plan were the deaths of Orpheus and Spoiler, Black Mask controlling all of Gotham City's gangs, hundreds of deaths, the allienation of Robin and Oracle, Batgirl left for Bludhaven, and superheroes were illegalized in Gotham City. Batman's plan gave him no right to treat Lesile and Oracle like complete crap. Batman's plan gave him no right to take over the GCPD.

He left Gotham to argue for it to be saved. He also had to come up with his own plan to save Gotham since all else failed. Huntress was a dangerous individual who he invited to the JLA to monitor. He took Batgirl away from her because it's possible that she could've snapped while wearing the bat logo and caused more strife with Gordon than he already had at the moment.
No, he left for Washington D.C. to save Gotham City. He left for Monaco because he was dissalussioned. It took Talia to come and see him and tell him to suck it up for him to come back.
The Huntress was not a murderer, she was a person who saw that certain people deserved to die. She was an angry person and he gave her League membership as an attempt not for him to monitor but for her to control that anger. But that was not the reason why he took away the mantle of Batgirl from her. He saw competence in her, and he gave her a mission that even he would have failed in. Because she failed she wasn't good enough.
Batgirl killing would not have caused further strife between Batman and Gordon. Gordon felt abandoned by Batman for leaving Gotham City and killing was tolerated during the No Man's Land, hence why Batman said it was alright to Gordon when he killed a man and why he would have let Gordon kill the Joker.

Emotional trauma by losing his best friend. He has weaknesses, he does screw up, he's only human.
Gordon is Oracle's father and yet she still worked hard to try and find her father's assassin. And Gordon being shot did not give Batman the right to alienate Oracle and Alfred. It did not give Batman the right to abandon Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Batgirl, and Azrael to do everything by themselves. Batman should have taken action also and helped his apprentices and the GCPD to find the assassin.

But he realzied she very well could've been a Jason Todd and fired her to try and prevent that.
Yes he did see Jason in Spoiler, but he should have trusted her more, he should have trained her more, he should have treated her more kindly. He should have let her in more action beside him. There was so much Batman could have done to prevent Stephanie's outcome without actually firing her.

He's Batman. Dick's not.
Dick's work with the Teen Titans was far more important than Batman's at the time. Dick did manage to combine college, the Teen Titans, and his work with Batman and he still wasn't good enough for Batman.

"Hey guys, I have plans to take you down if you ever go rogue. so...uh...be ready." WTF?
Batman did not trust his teammates. People should trust their teammates. His collegues had the right to know that Batman did develop plans that were to be used against them at the right time without having to know what they were. They would still be unprepared and Batman's trustworthiness would have gone up. In the end, Batman's paranoia caused Ra's al Ghul to steal his plans and use them against the Justice League and Batman's expulsion from the Justice League of America.

He's the goddamn Batman.
Someone's been reading All-Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder a little too much :o

He said if Flash didn't handle them, he would. He told Flash to do his job. That's not being a douche.
Batman's rogues have attacked the DC Universe tons of times without Batman's assistance. Does that make Batman incompetent? Does that mean Batman is not doing his job. Batman has taken down villains from the rogues galleries of other superheroes such as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Does that mean that they are not doing their jobs? No, they are all people, and no person cannot be two places at the same time. Not even the Flash.

It's his mindset that Hal opened himself up to it. Hal was responiable for lots of death and strife. Batman doesn't forget, ever.
Hal sacrificed his life to save the universe. He's tried to make amends for his sins when he was the Spectre. Hal is a great hero as Green Lantern, yet that does not make him trustworthy? Yes, Batman does have the right not to trust Hal for the Parallax incident, even though Hal was not responsible for it, the entity Parallax was (for taking advantage of Hal in greif for losing everyone he ever loved, his entire city was GONE), but Batman does not have the right to be a complete dickwad to him.

Possibly. But he deemed it necessary because of the mindwipe, and because of the possibilities of those going rogue.
Again, Batman went to far with the Brother Mk. I satelite. The mindwipe did not give him the right to spy on Superman, Wonder Woman, and every superhero that was not involved in the Power Pact. The end result of Batman's paranoia ended up with Alexander Luthor giving Brother Eye "life" of it's own, Max Lord taking control of it, the deaths of Blue Beetle, Rocket Red, and many others by Checkmate and the OMACs, the creation of the OMACs, the alienation of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Booster Gold.

Batman said that before hand. It inspired Supes to be better. The truth hurts, but it sets you free.
No, Batman was wrong, Superman was still an inspiration, years after he came back to life. It did not mean to Superman to be better to inspire the people, he was already doing it, he inspired the people to rise up against the White Martians in JLA: New World Order, the entire superhero community saw him as a leader, he led the DC Universe during the Brainac 13/Imperiex crisis, he was loved by all. Infinite Crisis further proved that Batman was wrong.

[trustyside-kick]

This is getting juicy. Plus getting some extra info on some of the storylines I have not read. :up:

[cass]

The plan didn't even need to exist in the first place. The results of Batman's plan were the deaths of Orpheus and Spoiler, Black Mask controlling all of Gotham City's gangs, hundreds of deaths, the allienation of Robin and Oracle, Batgirl left for Bludhaven, and superheroes were illegalized in Gotham City. Batman's plan gave him no right to treat Lesile and Oracle like complete crap. Batman's plan gave him no right to take over the GCPD.

Wrong. It was not the result of Batman's plan. If Spoiler hadn't enacted the plan and screwed it up with Matches Malone's non appearance, it would've worked. Spoiler screwed up, not Batman.

No, he left for Washington D.C. to save Gotham City. He left for Monaco because he was dissalussioned. It took Talia to come and see him and tell him to suck it up for him to come back.
The Huntress was not a murderer, she was a person who saw that certain people deserved to die. She was an angry person and he gave her League membership as an attempt not for him to monitor but for her to control that anger. But that was not the reason why he took away the mantle of Batgirl from her. He saw competence in her, and he gave her a mission that even he would have failed in. Because she failed she wasn't good enough.
Batgirl killing would not have caused further strife between Batman and Gordon. Gordon felt abandoned by Batman for leaving Gotham City and killing was tolerated during the No Man's Land, hence why Batman said it was alright to Gordon when he killed a man and why he would have let Gordon kill the Joker.

The Huntress, with all her issues, very well could've snapped while wearing a bat logo. And last time I checked Gordon had a badge, not a costume.


Gordon is Oracle's father and yet she still worked hard to try and find her father's assassin. And Gordon being shot did not give Batman the right to alienate Oracle and Alfred. It did not give Batman the right to abandon Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Batgirl, and Azrael to do everything by themselves. Batman should have taken action also and helped his apprentices and the GCPD to find the assassin.

He screwed up. I've already said that.


Yes he did see Jason in Spoiler, but he should have trusted her more, he should have trained her more, he should have treated her more kindly. He should have let her in more action beside him. There was so much Batman could have done to prevent Stephanie's outcome without actually firing her.

He should've never let her in in the first place. It's not the training, it's the drive that's important. Dick had it. Tim had it. Jason was just an angry kid (see Huntress). Spoiler was just a girl trying to impress whomever she could.


Dick's work with the Teen Titans was far more important than Batman's at the time. Dick did manage to combine college, the Teen Titans, and his work with Batman and he still wasn't good enough for Batman.

Because Batman is Batman. Dick isn't.

Batman did not his teammates. His collegues had the right to know that Batman did develop plans that were to be used against them at the right time without having to know what they were. They would still be unprepared and Batman's trustworthiness would have gone up. In the end, Batman's paranoia caused Ra's al Ghul to steal his plans and use them against the Justice League and Batman's expulsion from the Justice League of America.

I think it'd be common sense that Batman, one of the world's brightest minds and also a paranoid bastard, would have plans for everyone. To be upset because he didn't come out and say it is childish.

Someone's been reading All-Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder a little too much :o

:rolleyes:

Batman's rogues have attacked the DC Universe tons of times without Batman's assistance. Does that make Batman incompetent? Does that mean Batman is not doing his job. Batman has taken down villains from the rogues galleries of other superheroes such as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Does that mean that they are not doing their jobs? No, they are all people, and no person cannot be two places at the same time. Not even the Flash.

He told Flash if he can't do his job, he'd do it for him. Batman's a control freak. Everyone fails.

Hal sacrificed his life to save the universe. He's tried to make amends for his sins when he was the Spectre. Hal is a great hero as Green Lantern, yet that does not make him trustworthy? Yes, Batman does have the right not to trust Hal for the Parallax incident, even though Hal was not responsible for it, the entity Parallax was (for taking advantage of Hal in greif for losing everyone he ever loved, his entire city was GONE), but Batman does not have the right to be a complete dickwad to him.

If Batman doesn't keep an eye on him, who will? That's his mindset. Hal was a dick to him by allowing Batman's mindwipe.


Again, Batman went to far with the Brother Mk. I satelite. The mindwipe did not give him the right to spy on Superman, Wonder Woman, and every superhero that was not involved in the Power Pact. The end result of Batman's paranoia ended up with Alexander Luthor giving Brother Eye "life" of it's own, Max Lord taking control of it, the deaths of Blue Beetle, Rocket Red, and many others by Checkmate and the OMACs, the creation of the OMACs, the alienation of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Booster Gold.

It gave him a right to make sure that if something like that was to happen again, he'd know it. The end result of the Power Pact's lies was the creation of the Crisis. To blam Batman for it is poposterous. If he hadn't been mindwiped, he wouldn't have had the need to spy.


No, Batman was wrong, Superman was still an inspiration, years after he came back to life. It did not mean to Superman to be better to inspire the people, he was already doing it, he inspired the people to rise up against the White Martians in JLA: New World Order, the entire superhero community saw him as a leader, he led the DC Universe during the Brainac 13/Imperiex crisis, he was loved by all. Infinite Crisis further proved that Batman was wrong.

The last time Superman was truly appreciated was his funeral. His death inspired Steel to become a hero. The entire community met and mourned and were determined to step up. In between then and Crisis, it was Superman as a defacto leader. Infinite Crisis just proved Batman right. Superman needed to step up, and he finally did.

[trustyside-kick]

Wrong. It was not the result of Batman's plan. If Spoiler hadn't enacted the plan and screwed it up with Matches Malone's non appearance, it would've worked. Spoiler screwed up, not Batman.

I think he is right about that. She messed up the Matches Malone plan since Batman was him if he were to ever put the plan into motion. And that was a good plan if it was done right. Maybe Bats should have told Spoiler about it ahead of time?

[cass]

I think he is right about that. She messed up the Matches Malone plan since Batman was him if he were to ever put the plan into motion. And that was a good plan if it was done right. Maybe Bats should have told Spoiler about it ahead of time?

It's a need to know basis. She didn't need to know.

[hippie_hunter]

Wrong. It was not the result of Batman's plan. If Spoiler hadn't enacted the plan and screwed it up with Matches Malone's non appearance, it would've worked. Spoiler screwed up, not Batman.
Wrong, Batman was able to set the plan foward when Spoiler unintentionally started it. The plan got screwed up by Black Mask killing Orpheus. But like I said, the plan shouldn't have existed in the first place. And in the end, bad things happend and they are on Batman's hands for creating that plan.

The Huntress, with all her issues, very well could've snapped while wearing a bat logo. And last time I checked Gordon had a badge, not a costume.
Very true, but the Huntress is not a murderer, the only way she would have killed was if she had no choice.

He screwed up. I've already said that.
He did screw up, big time. He came off as a little b***hy douche in the process.

He should've never let her in in the first place. It's not the training, it's the drive that's important. Dick had it. Tim had it. Jason was just an angry kid (see Huntress). Spoiler was just a girl trying to impress whomever she could.
Very true again, but better training could make all the difference. Batman should have went to Spoiler's mother, and done other things to prevent her outcome. He shouldn't have treated her poorly. She was just a young girl.

Because Batman is Batman. Dick isn't.
So what. Batman is just a man, like Dick. Batman had no reason to fire him.

I think it'd be common sense that Batman, one of the world's brightest minds and also a paranoid bastard, would have plans for everyone. To be upset because he didn't come out and say it is childish.
Wouldn't you be upset if a man you trusted your life with, a man you have worked with, a man you have developed a form of respect, friendship and comradery with has come up with plans that could potentially kill you. The Leaguers had the right to know about the plans existance. Batman did not have to tell them what they were. An important part of a team is to trust one another, Batman did not exhibit that.

:rolleyes:
I was just having some fun :p

He told Flash if he can't do his job, he'd do it for him. Batman's a control freak. Everyone fails.
Which are qualities of a douchebag. Let's all go up to Batman for not controlling the inmates at Arkham when the Society broke all of them free when Batman was at Alexander Luthor's base, or he didn't see the Joker go to New York City and torture President Lex Luthor, or stop Mr. Freeze from teaming up with Killer Frost and terrorize Firestorm and Firehawk.

If Batman doesn't keep an eye on him, who will? That's his mindset. Hal was a dick to him by allowing Batman's mindwipe.
Very true, it was wrong that Hal allowed Batman's mindwipe. But who gives Batman the right to keep an eye on the other heroes? This is the same controversy that came about in the OMAC Project.

It gave him a right to make sure that if something like that was to happen again, he'd know it. The end result of the Power Pact's lies was the creation of the Crisis. To blam Batman for it is poposterous. If he hadn't been mindwiped, he wouldn't have had the need to spy.
Yes, the Power Pact did cause Batman's paranoia, but it is Batman's fault that he went to far. He did not have to creat a spy satelite which led to the Infinite Crisis.

The last time Superman was truly appreciated was his funeral. His death inspired Steel to become a hero. The entire community met and mourned and were determined to step up. In between then and Crisis, it was Superman as a defacto leader. Infinite Crisis just proved Batman right. Superman needed to step up, and he finally did.
Superman has always been appreciated. If Superman wasn't an inspiration, then the people would not have listened to him during the Hyperion invasion or the Brainiac 13/Imperiex crisis. He would not be admired by the people as much as he is. The people would not build a statue of him. Infinite Crisis proved Batman wrong by showing that Superman was always an inspiration. Batman only said that out of anger and frustration.

[GreatGuardsman!]

one year later for the Bat family is really awesome.

[trustyside-kick]

It's a need to know basis. She didn't need to know.

Ya but she stumbled across them anyway. If she knew at least that he was Matches Malone maybe it could have been different I guess.

[cass]

Wrong, Batman was able to set the plan foward when Spoiler unintentionally started it. The plan got screwed up by Black Mask killing Orpheus. But like I said, the plan shouldn't have existed in the first place. And in the end, bad things happend and they are on Batman's hands for creating that plan.

In order for the plan to work, Matches Malone had to be present. Spoiler screwed it up. Contigency plans need to to exist.

Very true, but the Huntress is not a murderer, the only way she would have killed was if she had no choice.

There's the possibility she would kill. That's inappropriate if you're going to wear a bat costume.


He did screw up, big time. He came off as a little b***hy douche in the process.


Very true again, but better training could make all the difference. Batman should have went to Spoiler's mother, and done other things to prevent her outcome. He shouldn't have treated her poorly. She was just a young girl.

Better training doesn't prevent one man from taking you and beating you to death with a crowbar, especially when all you are is a little girl looking for attention.


So what. Batman is just a man, like Dick. Batman had no reason to fire him.

Batman wouldn't want his "son" to overdo it. He doesn't want him to be like Bruce. That's his mindset.


Wouldn't you be upset if a man you trusted your life with, a man you have worked with, a man you have developed a form of respect, friendship and comradery with has come up with plans that could potentially kill you. The Leaguers had the right to know about the plans existance. Batman did not have to tell them what they were. An important part of a team is to trust one another, Batman did not exhibit that.

Why tell them? What if they just mindwipe you so you forget you even have plans? Batman didn't have to tell them period. They never told Batman they mindwiped him.


I was just having some fun :p


Which are qualities of a douchebag. Let's all go up to Batman for not controlling the inmates at Arkham when the Society broke all of them free when Batman was at Alexander Luthor's base, or he didn't see the Joker go to New York City and torture President Lex Luthor, or stop Mr. Freeze from teaming up with Killer Frost and terrorize Firestorm and Firehawk.

Telling someone to do their job doesn't make you a douchebag. If anyone has the balls to tell Batman, then go ahead and tell them.

Very true, it was wrong that Hal allowed Batman's mindwipe. But who gives Batman the right to keep an eye on the other heroes? This is the same controversy that came about in the OMAC Project.

So it's ok if someone does it as long as it's not Batman?


Yes, the Power Pact did cause Batman's paranoia, but it is Batman's fault that he went to far. He did not have to creat a spy satelite which led to the Infinite Crisis.

It's the Power Pact who went too far.


Superman has always been appreciated. If Superman wasn't an inspiration, then the people would not have listened to him during the Hyperion invasion or the Brainiac 13/Imperiex crisis. He would not be admired by the people as much as he is. The people would not build a statue of him. Infinite Crisis proved Batman wrong by showing that Superman was always an inspiration. Batman only said that out of anger and frustration.

They built a statue at his death. Military members may not view Bush as an inspiration, but they listen to him. Students may not view their teachers as inspiration, but they listen to them. It's not inspiration, it's authority. Superman was a de facto leader. Now, thanks to the Crisis, he's an inspiration.

[cass]

Ya but she stumbled across them anyway. If she knew at least that he was Matches Malone maybe it could have been different I guess.

Yeah it would've all been ok. But still, she didn't need to know.

[David Ford, RPD]

I was thinking about reading Superman: OYL but the thing is I do not stay up to date with Superman so I would be confused or something. I wish I knew more about his storylines but I am way more of a Batman fan. Plus not enough time to read about all of the superheroes I like. =P

I highly, highly recommend picking up the OYL Superman comics right now. The art is stunning, and the writing is a completly fresh start--even if you haven't read a Superman comic since 1993 you'll have no difficulty pickng these comics up. Siomply put, the OYL comics have taken all the best post-Crisis part of the Superman mythos (Intergang, Lex as a businessman, the atmosphere at the Planet) and re-configured them.

[trustyside-kick]

I highly, highly recommend picking up the OYL Superman comics right now. The art is stunning, and the writing is a completly fresh start--even if you haven't read a Superman comic since 1993 you'll have no difficulty pickng these comics up. Siomply put, the OYL comics have taken all the best post-Crisis part of the Superman mythos (Intergang, Lex as a businessman, the atmosphere at the Planet) and re-configured them.

Completely fresh start writing? So if I am not up-to-date with Superman's storylines or his villains I will not be confused?

[GoldenAgeHero]

so far james robinmsons run has been fantastic. im really diging the new attitude of bats and robin. all i want toknow is, what is DC doing with the villains? are they replacing them with minor villains and doing something with them? in batman 652 harvey blows him and his apartment up(still wiating to see if he's really dead or not.) kgbeast,magpie,scarface and the ventriqulest are all dead.

[Nightwing]

Click here. (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228812)

Robinson's run was been amazing, and the art so far is great as well. I'm really liking how Bruce's and Tim's relationship has grown stronger within the last year, seeing Gordon and Bullock back has also made the book one to read for OYL. After this arc ends, I'm looking forward to Grant Morrison taking over it. Perhaps by killing some of the lesser known villains, they'll be upgrading the rouges gallery.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm continually disappointed with the direction they're taking the Gotham City Police Department in. First Gordon's back for no apparent reason after getting shot and retiring for years, now Bullock turns out to have been dirty, along with everyone up to Akins? Akins was about as straight a shooter as they came. I'm forced to wonder if Robinson ever even looked at Gotham Central after learning that Akins is allegedly a dirty cop. Plus, that just makes Gordon look bad, since he hand-picked most of the cops in the MCU and, I believe, Akins himself. Why bring back the guy who apparently is so bad at reading people that about 99% of his appointees turned out to be dirty? The whole GCPD portion of it is awful and makes very little sense in light of other things.

Outside of that, the current run's been good. I like the new, more equalized chemistry between Batman and Robin (although Bruce calling Tim "boy" last issue was weird), and I like that Robin's apparently boned up on his fighting technique. He's a badass fighter as well as being smarter than all the other Bat-characters put together now. Pretty soon, Bruce and Dick'll be able to hang up their tights and enjoy sweet obsoleteness--er, I mean, retirement. ;)

The story's pretty interesting, too. I'm not quite sure if Dent's a red herring and someone's just framing him, or if he's so crazy that he doesn't realize he's murdering people, or if he's actually the killer and Two-Face is back in full effect already. Definitely a good mystery unfolding. I'm kind of sad about the Ventriloquist and Scarface, though. I liked them.

[Binker]

I'll posy my reviews to Batman OYL shortly. But before I do: what does everyone think of Batman himself in OYL?

[TheCorpulent1]

He didn't seem to be much less of a dick, from what I'd seen up to the last issue. He was better with the people who are close to him, like Gordon and Robin, but when Harper was introduced to him he just dismissed her as basically a nonentity. I get that he's still supposed to be dark and mysterious, but he can't acknowledge a cop that Gordon himself trusts? Last issue, however, featured two surprising moments: his forgiving Bullock and giving him a second chance and his scene with Harvey. He genuinely seemed pained by the notion that his friend could be falling back on old habits and he'd be powerless to stop it.

[Kraven]

Man, I'm disappointed that I missed about half of this storyline already. It sounds really good, and I'm eager to read it. Do any of you think they will print this out on paperback?

[CConn]

Completely fresh start writing? So if I am not up-to-date with Superman's storylines or his villains I will not be confused?You'll definitely be confused. That's the point; it's a bit of a mystery. But you should enjoy it all the same. I certainly am.
Man, I'm disappointed that I missed about half of this storyline already. It sounds really good, and I'm eager to read it. Do any of you think they will print this out on paperback?Of course they will. I'd guess it'd be out within 6 months or so.

[hippie_hunter]

In order for the plan to work, Matches Malone had to be present. Spoiler screwed it up. Contigency plans need to to exist.
Yes, but once Batman found out that it was one of his plans, he was able to get it on track. However, the murder of Orpheus ruined any chance of it succeeding. But the most important thing is that the plan should have never existed in the first place.

There's the possibility she would kill. That's inappropriate if you're going to wear a bat costume.
True, but people who have worn Bat-costumes have either killed or attempted to kill: Cassandra Cain killed while training with her father and Lady Shiva as Batgirl, Azrael has killed, Nightwing attempted to kill the Joker. In Hush, even Batman tried to kill him and would have if Gordon didn't stop him. What makes that any different than the Huntress's position? The fact is that Batman treated the Huntress poorly, and as a result she defected to Pettit's gang which killed all the time. If Batman didn't drive her away, she probally would have stayed with Batman's gang and not killed at all.

Better training doesn't prevent one man from taking you and beating you to death with a crowbar, especially when all you are is a little girl looking for attention.
Better training does help. But yes you are right, Jason Todd and Stephanie Brown should have never became Robin. They did lack the drive and abilities that Dick Grayson and Tim Drake did. But again, better training would have probally helped them out a little bit. Jason Todd received better training after he rose from the dead and look at him now, he was able to go toe to toe with the Batman.

Batman wouldn't want his "son" to overdo it. He doesn't want him to be like Bruce. That's his mindset.
No, Batman's mindset is that you do everything his way. Batman beleived that saving a child from Clayface was more important than taking down Brother Blood. Batman demand's perfection. He demands to have things his way. If he didn't want Dick to overdo it, he would have never let him join and lead the Teen Titans in the first place. He wouldn't have let him become Robin. Batman fired Dick because he felt that Dick was slacking in his duties when in truth he was not.

Why tell them? What if they just mindwipe you so you forget you even have plans? Batman didn't have to tell them period. They never told Batman they mindwiped him.
The variation of the Justice League that Batman developed contingency plans for was not behind the mindwipes, it was a group of heroes from the original variation. The point of having a team and working with them is to trust one another, and Batman did not do so. Telling them would be a symbol of trust. The Power Pact did not trust those who were not in their little club and as a result, their secrets were what led to the disbandment of the current variation of the Justice League.

Telling someone to do their job doesn't make you a douchebag. If anyone has the balls to tell Batman, then go ahead and tell them.
But Batman's villains have terrorized other heroes from the DC Universe, guess that means that Batman wasn't doing his job. The Flash was doing his job, he was out trying to find the murderer of Sue Dibny, the one who attempted to kill Jean Lorring, and the one who threatened Lois Lane. He was trying to make sure that the murderer would not threaten his own wife. The Flash may be the fastest man alive, but he, like everyone, can't be two places at once.

So it's ok if someone does it as long as it's not Batman?
I was saying that no one had the right.

It's the Power Pact who went too far.
They both went to far. The Power Pact had no right to tamper with anyones minds. The Secret Society of Supervillains, Batman, Dr. Light, Dr. Destiny, Catwoman, and any others that were mindwiped. Just like Batman did not have the right to spy on everyone. Two wrongs do not make a right.

They built a statue at his death. Military members may not view Bush as an inspiration, but they listen to him. Students may not view their teachers as inspiration, but they listen to them. It's not inspiration, it's authority. Superman was a de facto leader. Now, thanks to the Crisis, he's an inspiration.
Superman is the de facto leader of the superhero community because he is such an inspiration. He is the beacon of light in the darkness. He gives strength and hope to those who don't have any.

[rnewbz]

Detective comics 819 preveiw
http://comics.ign.com/articles/703/703728p1.html

[Kraven]

That preview looks good... I like the way the art looks on this.

[rnewbz]

I think Croc has mutated even further, he looks even less human.

[Nightwing]

I think Croc has mutated even further, he looks even less human.

Seems that he has. But even before when his mutation was still growing and was seeking a cure, he didn't appear to look human at all...

[trustyside-kick]

I think Croc has mutated even further, he looks even less human.

Yea. I think from reading Hush Returns you find out that Riddler and Hush infected him with a virus making his mutation even more farther...also in an issue after Under the Hood I believe you learn even more about his mutation.

[Nightwing]

Yea. I think from reading Hush Returns you find out that Riddler and Hush infected him with a virus making his mutation even more farther...also in an issue after Under the Hood I believe you learn even more about his mutation.

Exactly. :up:

[trustyside-kick]

I believe it was the issue inbetween the end of Under the Hood and Family something? I forget the second word but that should be a more specific location. The Killer Croc one that I was talking about is only one issue long.

[Fledermaus]

Batman #642
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Sam655321/642.jpg

[trustyside-kick]

Ya...and didn't Black Mask talk about something he was going to do to Killer Croc in that issue too? People keep picking on Croc man. :(

[TheDarkKnight_NL]

it has been awhile since i read batman comics last i read was : the Hush series and Batman #645 but im getting them from now on again
but one question why did Batman/Robin etc. leave Gotham??

[sinewave]

in one issue of either gotham knights or detective comics they showed how someone had implanted a mindcontrol chip in croc's brain but he discovered it and dug it out with his claws.

[Nightwing]

it has been awhile since i read batman comics last i read was : the Hush series and Batman #645 but im getting them from now on again
but one question why did Batman/Robin etc. leave Gotham??

We'll probably find out more of the details of when 52 begins, all we know so far is that the Bat-family took a trip around the world during the missing year. Although, in Teen Titans Wonder Girl asks Robin as to why he left after Superboy's death and responds so he could get better while training.

[TheDarkKnight_NL]

i see thnx , i thought maybe they said something about in Batman #650 or Dark Detective Comics #816

[Nightwing]

i see thnx , i thought maybe they said something about in Batman #650 or Dark Detective Comics #816

The only mentioning of their disappearence was in issue #817, where Gordon and the officer he had by his side were welcoming them back. When it was revealed that they had taken the trip, was in Robin #148. Bruce asks Tim why he left him and Dick in Budapest to come back to Gotham.

[Fledermaus]

in one issue of either gotham knights or detective comics they showed how someone had implanted a mindcontrol chip in croc's brain but he discovered it and dug it out with his claws.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Sam655321/642.jpg

[sinewave]

^ oh, was that it?

[TheDarkKnight_NL]

The only mentioning of their disappearence was in issue #817, where Gordon and the officer he had by his side were welcoming them back. When it was revealed that they had taken the trip, was in Robin #148. Bruce asks Tim why he left him and Dick in Budapest to come back to Gotham.

ok thnx i read 817 today but not the ones before the One Year Later arc, thnx for clearing that up:)

[Fledermaus]

^ oh, was that it?

Yep, that's it.

[Dope Nose]

Batwoman (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/6497/batwom4js6me.jpg)

[Mee]

Batwoman (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/6497/batwom4js6me.jpg)
Meh...not that great a costume. Do we know her I.D. yet?

[Dope Nose]

I don't think so, but my money's on Babs.

[sinewave]

Batwoman (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/6497/batwom4js6me.jpg)

looks like it could be babs, what with the red hair. could be a wig, though, kinda like dinah used to use. i like the costume. it's reminiscent of the batman beyond look. i'd really rather have her hair covered under a cowl, though. i've never understood why these female vigilantes run around with their long hair flying free. the first think i would do if fighting a person with long hair at close range would be to grab a hand full of hair so they couldn't get away and then just beat the heck out of them.

what's that image from?

[Fledermaus]

I don't think its Babs. What about the fact that Joe Chill was arrested and imprisioned for murdering Bruce's parents?

[Dope Nose]

not sure how I feel about that. I used to like the fact that the Waynes' murder was never solved - it was as if with every crook that Batman took down he was symbolically avenging his parents' death. on the other hand, Joe Chill is classic bat-continuity.

[Fledermaus]

I'm guessing it may have been influenced by the movie. That aside, it kind of changes Batman from a revenge-driven psycho to a crusader for justice.

I'm sure it will touch on Bruce, Dick, and Tim's Excellent Adventure in 52. But who else want to see a mini about it?

[The Caped Knight]

BATMAN : OYL is awesome, Bruce has changed alot, he's still The Badass Dark Knight from before, but he's different.

I hope 52 well shows us what happend to Bruce, Dick & Tim on their global Journey . The Quest to rediscover themselves .

[yenaled]

This is actually the best Batman I have read, since, well... recent memory.

And this is why James Robinson is a complete and utter God in comics.

[warren_sparta27]

a mini about Bruce, Dick and Tim's training over the year would be good.

also i think that Batwoman is going to end up being Montoya, even though babs wearing the costume (which is a awsoem costume) would be great.

anyone know who the black guy at the end of detective #819 is?

[yenaled]

He's the Tally Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallyman).

He first appeared against Azbats in Knightquest: The Crusade and appeared in Batman: Prodigal when Dick Grayson was standing in for Batman.

And that's about it apart from panels here and there.

[GoldenAgeHero]

i dont think batwoman is babs and didnt didio say that barb was better left as oracle?

[Anubis]

I like Jason Bard. I like the fact that Detective Comics has back up stories about other detective characters that ties into the main title. I like the fact that Orca had a guy who was into f**king a whale hybrid. I really love this crossover.

[yenaled]

Yes, yes and yes Anubis. It's all so good.

[Mister J]

This arc is great. This is the kind of stuff that got me into Batman in the first place. Also, they seem to be getting rid of quite a few C-list villains.

The ending of DC 819 promised some good stuff. Batman 653 can't get here fast enough. The resolution should be good.

[GoldenAgeHero]

This arc is great. This is the kind of stuff that got me into Batman in the first place. Also, they seem to be getting rid of quite a few C-list villains.

The ending of DC 819 promised some good stuff. Batman 653 can't get here fast enough. The resolution should be good.



im nervous about this move,why would they want todo that,shouldnt they try to make them better villains? it wouldve been better tokill all the A list villains and make better use of the B and C-listers.

[GoldenAgeHero]

I like Jason Bard. I like the fact that Detective Comics has back up stories about other detective characters that ties into the main title. I like the fact that Orca had a guy who was into f**king a whale hybrid. I really love this crossover.

imagine them having oral sex:down

[Emerald Knight]

im nervous about this move,why would they want todo that,shouldnt they try to make them better villains? it wouldve been better tokill all the A list villains and make better use of the B and C-listers.

but everybody knows the A-list villains. Why kill them off? :confused:

imagine the Joker no longer being around to be Batman's arch nemesis...or two-face, or Riddler...

[Mister J]

im nervous about this move,why would they want todo that,shouldnt they try to make them better villains? it wouldve been better tokill all the A list villains and make better use of the B and C-listers.
There are still tons of people like Firefly, Spellbinder and Floronic Man. Plus, they can still bring back goofs like Maxie Zeus and Copperhead. People would go bat-**** (pun intended) if they starting offing top-notch villains. Getting rid of some low list guys doesn't upset things too much in the universe, but still provides some sense of legitimacy and credibility to whoever is behind all this.
imagine the Joker no longer being around to be Batman's arch nemesis...
Don't. Even. Think. Like. That. :( :joker:

[supes_el]

I agree with the majority...The Batman OYL is very well written....He is still a badass Batman, just not a douche about it. Very very good read. Poor Croc never had a chance.

[Nightwing]

I like Jason Bard. I like the fact that Detective Comics has back up stories about other detective characters that ties into the main title. I like the fact that Orca had a guy who was into f**king a whale hybrid. I really love this crossover.

Jason Bard has been great during OYL, I'm interested as to how far he'll serve as Gotham's detective during the dawn. I'm also interested as to why Tally Man has suddenly been brought back.

[Anubis]

Well, I guess he's being moved up from D list to C list seeing as some of the other guys are now dead.

[Binker]

All my reviews of Batman OYL thus far:

DETECTIVE COMICS #817

REVIEW:
This is it! One Year Later (OYL). This point is a new beginning for old readers but THE beginning for new readers. In terms of Batman, setting him up in OYL, they mentioned what they wanted to do with him. I didn't want to listen to their plans so I can read this freshly.

Let's go, TO THE BATMOBILE!

Story: In the year where "he" has been gone, Harvey Dent has been keeping Gotham clean the best he can. But after KGBeast's death, and the return of Poison Ivy, Gordon, back as Commissioner, goes up to the rooftops and activates the old bat signal. Upon admiring the hearing of the cheers of Gothamites, a familar voice is heard; "Hello Jim. You called, I came."

The best Batman story? The old fashion detective story. Does this have it? OH YEAH IT DOES! Despite the fact that this just a setup for the arc, this IS the Batman we are grew up on. From the old books, Batman: The Animated Series, and the current season of The Batman, this was great.

This issue still gives us some shockers to pass the time of the next couple weeks til the next chapter: KGBeast dies as stated in the story paragraph, Bullock returns after a long absense, Ivy, thought to be dead, returns, and finally Gordon is commissioner...again. I knew it was gonna happen but since this was an arc, I must've thought he was gonna be commissioner by the end of the arc. Guess not. Again, OYL for new readers too.

To end this, this was a great issue. Despite the fact it was a setup, its still good for old readers from the things like shockers to the stuff that was BATMAN. As for new readers, same thing. OYL is looking good.

RATING: 8.5/10

BATMAN #651

REVIEW:
Detective #817 opened with a setup issue for the arc. From it, we saw classic old fashioned Batman returning and we were about to see a fight with Ivy in the next one (next one being THIS one). I heard couple negetives about this issue but let's see...

Story: When the bat-signal was lit, every single person in Gotham reacted. People who love, liked, and even hate the Batman were on it as Batman & Robin fought Ivy as their batplane exploded from Ivy's plants. Inside, the changes Batman has went through even surprises Ivy. But the night isn't even doen yet....

What surprises me in this issue is Batman. He's loosen up, more trusting with his partners like Robin, and instead of before where he was very dark, he's lighten up a bit. Another thing is that while this still is the Batman we are grew up on from the old books to Batman: The Animated Series, I can't help but see that this Batman is also like the dark knight from the new The Batman.

To end this, this was still a good issue. The arc is still starting and Batman OYL is more different that isn't bad. Even if what this arc is about isn't in this issue, its still needed and good in its own right. OYL is still looking good.

RATING: 7/10

DETECTIVE COMICS #818

REVEW:
Story: Magpie is dead. Bruce is wondering about what he has planned for Robin (although we don't know what it is). While Batman and Robin fight the Mad Hatter, Harvey Dent watches them and sees they're different than what trhey like ebfore. The Two-Face comes back and urges him to come back, but he refuses. In the final moments, another villian dies...

After the last part which didn't have the "snap" (I can't think of a term for that) like in Detective #817, #818 brings it back, maybe halfway. Bruce has something planned for Tim Drake. In every solicitation, we've heard about it and even in the preview of Batman #652 its mentioned. We have no idea what it is but its about his future. Could he be the next Batman (like in the "Titans of Tomorrow"), or maybe something that we're not thinking of? We don't know.

While in a cameo previously, Jason Bard makes a appearence as Batman gives him an offer that he accepts. As Batman's detective for the day time to help the Dark Knight and for himt o know what's up when he enters the night shift. While the appearence is small, we do get to know what he is like. He's very James Bond. He sleeps with the woman who is the criminal and once he's done with her, he rats her out.

Overall, the "snap" came back. We get more into what Bruce, as the father figure, wants for two people and whatever is happening, we want to know what's going on.

REVIEW: 8/10

BATMAN #652

REVEW:
Story: Scarface and Wesker are dead. Through a security tape, Batman & Robin find that all the villians had met before including the next oen to die: Orca. After Batman and Bullock make amens, Robin goes out to fight Killer Moth while Batman goes to talk to his old friend...

With the end of this part, the story takes turn. People have been saying that Two Face is coming back and must be killing the villians. Yet, theres still no evidence to point either way. The huge mystery on why the villians are dying is one that we would have to wait to see why this is going on, but I do know that if we come up with our own explantion, it'll bite us back. Best to wait and look at the new clues as the next issues cdome in.

Batman still talks about what he wants for Robin, but its still up in the air of wha the wants. But like the murder mystery, we get clues. The big here is that he admits that through all these times he has doubted a sidekick. How this sounds, it sounds like what many assumed which is Bruce may want to legally adopt Tim Drake, like Dick Grayson, and have him become his ward. It sounds like it.

Overall, another good one. The mystery is still here and it ain't even close of finishing. We're all wondering what's going on.

RATING: 8/10

DETECTIVE COMICS #819

REVEW:
Story: Batman, Robin, Gordon, & Bullock start the seacrh for Orca. After fighting with Killer Croc, they find Orca's body. As Harvey is pushing away his Two Face side, Jason Bard tries to figure out on his side the mysteryu of the villian's deaths, with gun shooting results.

With Orca dead, the villians from that tape are all gone. Yet, with the story still going, even I'm wondering if more are on the killer's list. Two Face is still trying to bring Hravey Dent back. My theory: I believe his Two Face side did the killings in a attempt to bring Harvey back (since his body would still have to go and kill). If thats the case, then its a fight between the two mental sides.

While the first half was pure Batman, the second half was Jason Bard. Reading him, its another deterctive story in the Batman world. I'm reminded of Gotham Central, where the cops there were solving cases without the help of Batman. This is the same here but shorter and on a person who is just a detective with a Bond side of his own.

Overall, good.

REVIEW: 8/10

[ToddIsDead]

I like Jason Bard. I like the fact that Detective Comics has back up stories about other detective characters that ties into the main title. I like the fact that Orca had a guy who was into f**king a whale hybrid. I really love this crossover.
:up: I know, it's all been so cool.

[Nightwing]

Well, I guess he's being moved up from D list to C list seeing as some of the other guys are now dead.

But if you think about it, alot of the villains in the current arcs are C/D list. Magpie, Ventriloquist and Scarface, etc.

[Anubis]

Is there really a list so we can see? I mean, people say this guys A list, this chicks C list, you'd think somebody would actually make a list for reference.

[trustyside-kick]

Is there really a list so we can see? I mean, people say this guys A list, this chicks C list, you'd think somebody would actually make a list for reference.

Good point. It would be cool to see someone make the so-called "A, B and C lists" of the villains.

[TheCorpulent1]

We could make some lists right here.

A List
- Joker
- Two-Face
- Mr. Freeze
- Penguin
- Ra's al Ghul

B List
- Killer Croc
- Poison Ivy
- Black Mask
- Riddler
- Hush

C List
- Magpie
- Ventriloquist/Scarface
- Mr. Zsasz
- KG Beast
- Calendar Man

Obviously they're incomplete, but I'm not really that knowledgeable on Batman's villains. I figured I'd just start you off.

[ToddIsDead]

Ra's al Ghul would definitely be an A-lister. Hush would be more of a B-lister.

[trustyside-kick]

I am not sure if Hush would fall under A list villains. He is not really a villain anyway...with what Gotham Knights did with the character...he just basically tries to piss Bruce off and crap and blames Bruce for Gotham's condition with the criminals.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I didn't read the Gotham Knights thing. The "Hush" arc certainly seemed to imply that he was intended for the big leagues of Batman's rogues gallery, though.

I edited the post to include Ra's. Can't believe I forgot him. :o

[ToddIsDead]

I edited the post to include Ra's. Can't believe I forgot him. :o
Shame:o

[trustyside-kick]

Oh, I didn't read the Gotham Knights thing. The "Hush" arc certainly seemed to imply that he was intended for the big leagues of Batman's rogues gallery, though.

Yea I can understand that. Hush could have really become something great. I do not agree with some people saying that Gotham Knights killed the Hush character from being anything great but it was not all that bad. Maybe what would have been best since Loeb created the character was for Loeb to write Hush Returns.

[Anubis]

Never liked Hush.

[trustyside-kick]

I loved it.

[TheCorpulent1]

Never liked Hush.
I wasn't too impressed with the character myself. The arc was all right, if really simple and popcorny.

[Anubis]

I didn't like the story either. I expected more from Loeb after having read Long Holloween, Dark Victory. and other stories. Bit of a let down for me. The start of his slump in my opinion.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, after Long Halloween most Batman stories are let-downs, really. It's still my absolute favorite Batman story ever.

[trustyside-kick]

TLH is my favorite as well. But I would not say that a lot of Batman stories after it were a let down.

[Anubis]

Me too. Batman at his finest.

[TheCorpulent1]

TLH is my favorite as well. But I would not say that a lot of Batman stories after it were a let down.
I meant if you were to measure most other Batman stories to TLH. Other stories can be enjoyed on their own merits, but they all pretty much pale in comparison to TLH and, to a lesser extent, Year One for me.

[Anubis]

I liked No man's land. I also enjoyed Murderer/ Fugitive, and parts of War Games. I also liked most of the Red Hood stuff. Some really powerful moments in that arc. Just didn't care for Hush. But i'm loving the current arc. It's not TLH, but it's been very good so far. James Robinson rulz.

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked pretty much everything Rucka was involved with on Batman, especially Murderer/Fugitive. War Games was all right, but basically a pale imitation of NML. I think the current arc is all right, but nothing really that special. I'm kind of dismayed with the implications it makes for the GCPD, too.

[trustyside-kick]

I liked No man's land. I also enjoyed Murderer/ Fugitive, and parts of War Games. I also liked most of the Red Hood stuff. Some really powerful moments in that arc. Just didn't care for Hush. But i'm loving the current arc. It's not TLH, but it's been very good so far. James Robinson rulz.

I loved everything from As the Crow Flies to present OYL. I hated Broken City...that story had like no point to it...nothing special about it...and I loathed the artwork in it.

I really want to get my hands on the War Game saga. But at the bookstore they have not had all of the acts...I have given it some though and maybe I will just buy them online.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I liked "As the Crow Flies," but I was turned off by the Red Hood stuff, so I skipped all that trash. I liked "Broken City," though.

[Anubis]

I liked pretty much everything Rucka was involved with on Batman, especially Murderer/Fugitive. War Games was all right, but basically a pale imitation of NML. I think the current arc is all right, but nothing really that special. I'm kind of dismayed with the implications it makes for the GCPD, too.

What implications would that be?

[TheCorpulent1]

What implications would that be?
That practically everyone involved in it is corrupt, including (and here's the main sticking point) Akins, the commissioner Gordon appointed as his replacement. Also, Bullock himself was corrupt. It wasn't enough that he'd gone out a disgrace for trying to assassinate Gordon's shooter from the "Officer Down" arc? Bah. AND it just makes the whole system look retarded because, after the entire force turns out to be corrupt--a good number of whom Gordon himself hand-picked--they get Gordon himself to come back in. A man who's gotta be pushing 70 or 80 by now, who was shot on the job and is physically not in great shape, AND who apparently has such horrible judgment that his most trusted people on the force turned out to be corrupt? What the hell is the Gotham City Council thinking? The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me, and it makes the GCPD look a hell of a lot bleaker and makes me feel like Gotham Central counted for absolutely nothing.

[Jono87]

Quick Q before posting my thoughts, how would I post images from my hard drive?

[TheCorpulent1]

You'd have to host them somewhere. You can get a free account for hosting images at www.photobucket.com or www.imageshack.com or a number of other places.

[trustyside-kick]

Quick Q before posting my thoughts, how would I post images from my hard drive?

I use photobucket. Go here and make an account, then upload the pictures onto that side. When you do that copy the [IMG] tag and the picture should show.

www.photobucket.com

[Anubis]

Well, I do agree about Gordon coming back. I thought they should have promoted Maggie Sawyer to Commish. If anything it takes things back to the status quo. The Cops are all corrupt with the exception of only a few trusted individuals. It was kinda like that during Gotham Central. Everybody was corrupt except the SCU. And even then, a lot of them were douche bags. A couple of them could not have believably come to accept this kinder, more cop friendly Bats after the s**t that went down in War games and the Joker arc of Gotham Central. Sure, I hope a few of the old SCU officers show up like Josie and her partner. Maybe in back up stories in Detective Comics.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but the main thing I found ****ed up was that Akins was corrupt. If the rest of the force except the SCU is corrupt, that's one thing, but Akins was basically where the buck stopped for the SCU itself. That he was corrupt basically means that all of Gotham Central was for naught. The good men and women of the GCPD SCU, no matter how dedicated they were to upholding the law and fighting the good fight and all that idealistic crap, none of it mattered because the guy who called the shots for them was dirty. All this new stuff about corruption in the GCPD makes all of Gotham Central seem hollow to me. For all we know, Akins could've been screwing over the investigation into Corrigan, totally nonchalant about the fact that Allen, one of his best cops, was killed by that prick because hey, what does he care, he's a corrupt disgrace to the badge, too.

[Anubis]

Well, that depends entirely upon what Akins was guilty of doing. They made him corrupt for two reasons, one, he didn't seem like he would change his stance on the Bat, I dont' think a year apart would make the heart grow fonder for the pointy eared freak. and two, it was a convenient way to get rid of him and bring Gordan back. Which is what they really wanted. It's not that big a deal to me though. I can get over it as long as good stuff can come out of it. Just wish GC hadn't had to go. I was reading that Joker arc again like last week. Great stuff man.

[Jono87]

Of what I read pre-IC, Batman was never a douche IMO. With that said however, Robin's absence was most definately palpable. Therefore, as most are saying, I too am definately enjoying this current arc, and Batman's lighter characterization OYL. Also, as if to rectify my one pre-IC complaint, Robin's involement and importance are things that I am also enjoying.

As to the upcoming Batman & Son arc, I recognize that many believe that Ibn will become canon. However I ask you to consider the following. Though the overall pose is definately not exclusive to these two panels, in the context is the connection too farfetched?

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/jono6387/lilbatpreview.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/jono6387/lilJ.jpg

A couple of other things...

Corp, I wonder if you could provide a scan of the page you got your avatar from and/or provide the context of the scen that it was taken from.

As far as my preference of Bat stories, the only one that I have read that I didn't completely enjoy was Arkham Asylum, and I'm fairly certain it is because I didn't understand the depth of the story. Odd considering how many classes I have had regarding the analysis of literature etc.

And thanks for the help with my previous question.

[trustyside-kick]

As far as my preference of Bat stories, the only one that I have read that I didn't completely enjoy was Arkham Asylum, and I'm fairly certain it is because I didn't understand the depth of the story. Odd considering how many classes I have had regarding the analysis of literature etc.

Heh of all of those words that have been typed and entered in this whole forums you just put the one that sticks out the most to me. This whole senior year of english has been mainly analyzing literature...now I guess I owe my teacher for teaching it to us in such depth. Has helped me appreciate some of the Batman stories I overlooked before.

[Jono87]

I cant speak for anyone else, but I can certainly say that for all of the analysis taught to me in high school I certainly look at movies, novels, or any entertainment medium with a greater depth then I ever did beforehand. Plus it certainly comes in handy in the college courses I take these days, but I am pulling the thread off topic, and for that I apologize.

[trustyside-kick]

I cant speak for anyone else, but I can certainly say that for all of the analysis taught to me in high school I certainly look at movies, novels, or any entertainment medium with a greater depth then I ever did beforehand. Plus it certainly comes in handy in the college courses I take these days, but I am pulling the thread off topic, and for that I apologize.

Oh heck ya...the thing I "analyze" the most now more than anything are new movies that come out. The fact that we are doing our film unit at the moment takes a huge role in that as well.

Ah yes..but we must get back to topic. One Year Later is turning out to be great..the thing I like most is the BTAS vibe that you get when reading it. Face The Face is proving itself to be a great mystery. Is it coincidence that other great stories (TLH and DV) have lead us to believe Harvey to be the bad guy? I think not. :)

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, that depends entirely upon what Akins was guilty of doing. They made him corrupt for two reasons, one, he didn't seem like he would change his stance on the Bat, I dont' think a year apart would make the heart grow fonder for the pointy eared freak. and two, it was a convenient way to get rid of him and bring Gordan back. Which is what they really wanted. It's not that big a deal to me though. I can get over it as long as good stuff can come out of it. Just wish GC hadn't had to go. I was reading that Joker arc again like last week. Great stuff man.
Doesn't matter what he was guilty of doing. If he got booted off the force for it, it was obviously something either extreme or unsavory or both. I get that they just wanted to bring Gordon and Bullock back so there'd be recognizable faces on the GCPD, but I'd still like to see some kind of reference to Gotham Central so that it doesn't feel like they're just sweeping the whole series under the rug the way Marvel did Morrison's X-Men. For example, who's this Harper chick? They couldn't have had Maggie Sawyer or Sarge or Marcus or even Stacy accompany Gordon upstairs? The fact that they're all entirely absent gives me a bad feeling that the intended implication is that they were all corrupt, too. The GC characters had become recognizable faces, too, after all.

[Anubis]

Well, my guess is we'll see how it all went down in 52. I'll make my judgements then.

[sinewave]

That practically everyone involved in it is corrupt, including (and here's the main sticking point) Akins, the commissioner Gordon appointed as his replacement. Also, Bullock himself was corrupt. It wasn't enough that he'd gone out a disgrace for trying to assassinate Gordon's shooter from the "Officer Down" arc? Bah. AND it just makes the whole system look retarded because, after the entire force turns out to be corrupt--a good number of whom Gordon himself hand-picked--they get Gordon himself to come back in. A man who's gotta be pushing 70 or 80 by now, who was shot on the job and is physically not in great shape, AND who apparently has such horrible judgment that his most trusted people on the force turned out to be corrupt? What the hell is the Gotham City Council thinking? The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me, and it makes the GCPD look a hell of a lot bleaker and makes me feel like Gotham Central counted for absolutely nothing.

corp, i can't remember bullock's direct dialog discussing the corruption in the gcpd ranks and i don't have access to the book right now because i'm at work, but based on your post above two things occurred to me. 1) maybe bullock was exagerating when he said that the entire gcpd all the way up to akins was corrupt, and 2) maybe akins himself wasn't guilty of corruption but of not recognizing the corruptions within his force. i could be wrong here but it's something to consider. not to mention, that corruption within law enforcement can be a tricky and complex thing. meaning, there are different levels of corruption and sometimes the people guilty of it are actually trying to do the right things the wrong way. don't be too hard on gordon for selecting many of the possibly corrupt cops, i'm sure he used his best judgement at the time and wasn't aware of the impending corruption.

[TheCorpulent1]

If they qualify Bullock's spiel in a way that doesn't make the entire Gotham Central series look like an exercise in futility, I'll be happy. All I can base my opinion on is what I've been presented with so far, though.

But, as I said, outside of the GCPD stuff the current arc is pretty good.

[sinewave]

If they qualify Bullock's spiel in a way that doesn't make the entire Gotham Central series look like an exercise in futility, I'll be happy. All I can base my opinion on is what I've been presented with so far, though.

But, as I said, outside of the GCPD stuff the current arc is pretty good.

agreed. i'm loving this first oyl arc.

[trustyside-kick]

Yea the story Face the Face is going very smoothly right now.

[Nightwing]

It's the rebuilt of Bruce's and Tim's relationship that I'm enjoying, as well as the arc itself of course.

[trustyside-kick]

It's the rebuilt of Bruce's and Tim's relationship that I'm enjoying, as well as the arc itself of course.

Yea...reminds me more of the animated series.

[cerealkiller182]

Yea...reminds me more of the animated series.

Thats interesting you say that because I feel that a lot of things made a jump from DCAU, mostly in character protrayal. Maybe it is just because I stopped reading comics for a long time but still watched the DCAU.

[trustyside-kick]

Well the only reason I say it reminds me of the BTAS days was because the fact that you see like Robin more and several parts you see Batman working with Gordon more often. Like that one scene in I believe the first OYL issue with Robin on the file cabinet, Bats standing, and Gordon sitting at his desk. The main thing is probably because we are seeing more Robin than usual.

[Nightwing]

Thats interesting you say that because I feel that a lot of things made a jump from DCAU, mostly in character protrayal. Maybe it is just because I stopped reading comics for a long time but still watched the DCAU.

Not to mention Robin's new suit being depicted from the one he wore in DCAU, from the cartoon series to the comics.

[trustyside-kick]

Not to mention Robin's new suit being depicted from the one he wore in DCAU, from the cartoon series to the comics.

Yea I know. I loved seeing Tim Drake in TNBAS in that red and black suit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/robin2.jpg

I love the first Robin suit and all...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/AllStarBatmanRobinPoster.jpg

...but this new suit is badass.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/1145.jpg

I did not really like Tim's old suit all that much...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/robin_timdrake.gif

[The Caped Knight]

Yea I know. I loved seeing Tim Drake in TNBAS in that red and black suit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/robin2.jpg

I love the first Robin suit and all...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/AllStarBatmanRobinPoster.jpg

...but this new suit is badass.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/1145.jpg

I did not really like Tim's old suit all that much...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dhunter22/robin_timdrake.gif

I totally agree with you 100 % :up: :up: :supes:

[SpideyInATree]

I had a lot of catching up to do on these books. Missed Detective # 818 and it took me a month to get it. So I had three books in a row to read, which turned out to work nicely.

But anyhoo...

I'm really digging this A LOT. Taking Batman to the basics, and with the way Infinite Crisis # 7 ended, helped take things into a better perspective. But I can't believe that they offed the Ventriliquist. That was bad ass too.

I really don't think that it's Harvey Dent, but there is a tiny part of me that wants to think that Harvey is the one who took these guys out.

But I hope that it's not Harvey.

The side story with Jason Bard was a really nice touch and I actually thought that the Bard character was kind of cool...well, good things must come to an end. :o

[Binker]

BATMAN #653

REVEW:
Story: Harvey and Two Face confront one another. Harvey remembers his time with Batman moments before he left Gotham at the end of Infinite Crisis #7. With everything good that had happen in his life, Two Face twists it his way. In the end: its a rebirth.

Not much going on. Evidence of the Two Face side of Harvey doing the murders is brought up in light. I knew it was him, although while mentioned it isn't 100% said it was him.

One of the big things from this issue was that this was Harvey's side of the story of pre-52 and what was it like to protect Gotham during the Dark Knight's absence. Which begs the question, since I'm not reading 52, if Batman hired Harvey to protect Gotham then why is The Question in Gotham to begin with in 52?

That's somethign for 52 readers to find out. Not me.

Overall, an old enemy has returned and with two more issues to go of this arc, one wonders how it will end. And plus, what are the plans Batman has with Robin.

REVIEW: 7/10

[GoldenAgeHero]

BATMAN #653

REVEW:
Story: Harvey and Two Face confront one another. Harvey remembers his time with Batman moments before he left Gotham at the end of Infinite Crisis #7. With everything good that had happen in his life, Two Face twists it his way. In the end: its a rebirth.

Not much going on. Evidence of the Two Face side of Harvey doing the murders is brought up in light. I knew it was him, although while mentioned it isn't 100% said it was him.

One of the big things from this issue was that this was Harvey's side of the story of pre-52 and what was it like to protect Gotham during the Dark Knight's absence. Which begs the question, since I'm not reading 52, if Batman hired Harvey to protect Gotham then why is The Question in Gotham to begin with in 52?

That's somethign for 52 readers to find out. Not me.

Overall, this was a filler issue. An old enemy has returned and with two more issues to go of this arc, one wonders how it will end. And plus, what are the plans Batman has with Robin.

REVIEW: 7/10

how is it a filler issue, when it has everything to do with the arc?

some how i think harvey's side killed the question. he probably got jealous and ended up murdering him over territory ya know?

[sinewave]

how is it a filler issue, when it has everything to do with the arc?

some how i think harvey's side killed the question. he probably got jealous and ended up murdering him over territory ya know?

i doubt he killed the question. i'm glad two-face is back now. the art in this one was awesome. i love kramer's take on two-face.

[Binker]

I made a mistake. its fixed.

[Jono87]

I knew it was going to happen, because it needed to happen, but it would have been cool to have Harvey around a little longer. Either way, I guess its cool to have Two Face back. But Damn! He totally poured Nitric acid on his own face. Ouch.

[sinewave]

I knew it was going to happen, because it needed to happen, but it would have been cool to have Harvey around a little longer. Either way, I guess its cool to have Two Face back. But Damn! He totally poured Nitric acid on his own face. Ouch.

yeah, i was wondering how he carved up his face like that without even acknowledging the pain. then i realized he probably doesn't have any working nerve endings on that side of his head from the original acid attack.

[Emerald Knight]

I knew it was going to happen, because it needed to happen, but it would have been cool to have Harvey around a little longer. Either way, I guess its cool to have Two Face back. But Damn! He totally poured Nitric acid on his own face. Ouch.

well, isn't it a bit different this time around? Wasn't two-face the dominant persona when Harvey was Two-Face the first time around? Now it seems like they're "sharing the rent," so to speak...

still can't wait for the next part :up: :D

[GyLocke]

Here's a good example of Batman's more lightharted, OYL persona :)
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/get-attachment.aspx1.jpg
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/get-attachment.aspx.jpg

[Emerald Knight]

Here's a good example of Batman's more lightharted, OYL persona :)
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/get-attachment.aspx1.jpg
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/get-attachment.aspx.jpg

Damn...the new Bats works fast now doesn't he. ;) :D

[Fledermaus]

What's that from?

[GyLocke]

A few panels that didn't make it to the comic, for Batman's... unique portrayal.

[Jono87]

Here's a good example of Batman's more lightharted, OYL persona :)
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/get-attachment.aspx1.jpg
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/get-attachment.aspx.jpg

Ladies and Gentlemen...

The Hairy Chested Love god Returns

[Nightwing]

Preview sketch of Detective Comics #820, from Kirk's blog.

http://leonardkirk.comicbloc.com/wp-content/BatScareCrowThumb.jpg


Easily reminds me of this:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mjtastic/Sasha%20pics/Batman%20pics/acl.jpg

[ToddIsDead]

Cool.

[TheCorpulent1]

Is Batman wearing a headset? :confused:

[yenaled]

He does seem to be, weird.

[Nightwing]

Is Batman wearing a headset? :confused:

Probably for the script of the story. It is odd though, considering he's always had an earpiece built inside the cowl.

[jbone55]

I'm loving the storyline right now. Twoface is back and that was crazy what he did at the end. Someone said he doesn't have feeling in his nerves on that side of his face. That makes sense he didn't flinch pouring that acid on that side plus using the knife to make sure it's even in half.

[Nightwing]

http://www.newsarama.com/WWPhilly06/DC/BMCv657.jpg

[Black Panther]

http://www.newsarama.com/WWPhilly06/DC/BMCv657.jpg

KICKASS!!!!!!!! Thanks for posting Batman. :up:

Ibn looks to be like 7 now.

[Nightwing]

KICKASS!!!!!!!! Thanks for posting Batman. :up:

Ibn looks to be like 7 now.

He looks about ten to twelve at the fullest.

[Black Panther]

Yeah, I agree. Or maybe even fourteen, who knows! Still a great cover nonetheless. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

I hope Robin kicks Ibn's ass. I don't know why, I just think that'd be fun to see.

[The Batman]

to be honest...the current arc has been boring. so, i'm just waiting for morrison and dini to come along

[trustyside-kick]

to be honest...the current arc has been boring. so, i'm just waiting for morrison and dini to come along

You don't like Face the Face so far? I think it is going great.

[boywondernerdDC]

I hope Robin kicks Ibn's ass. I don't know why, I just think that'd be fun to see.


haha. i hope so too

[sinewave]

are we sure that's ibn? i'm not saying it isn't, but i just haven't seen anything official on it, yet.

[trustyside-kick]

Well why is it being discussed in the first play? So far the only story in OYL is Face the Face...the story with Ibn is not even out yet and will not for months.

[The Batman]

You don't like Face the Face so far? I think it is going great.

its kinda lacking to me. And Batman has been acting kinda bland...

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Batman's kind of taken a backseat and been more passive in this arc. I guess it's part of the less abrasive personality. "Face the Face" has still been better than "Up, Up, and Away," though. The last issue of the latter just made it completely drop off whatever momentum it had for me. Mad scientist, obvious-as-a-fist-to-the-face Lex is not what I want to see.

[trustyside-kick]

Even though Batman has been more "passive" as you say in this storyline...it is still good IMO. I like how it is focusing on some other characters.

[yenaled]

I think Face the Fcats is the best Batman solo stuff I've read in years.

[TheCorpulent1]

It feels basically like an edgier animated Batman, which I can't find any fault with. I think Batman needs at least one arc every once in a while where it's just him and his wits against his enemies, though. "Face the Face" has been all about re-establishing contacts and embracing the allies he has left, which might be why it seems a little less Batman-centric.

[Binker]

DETECTIVE COMICS #820:

REVIEW:
Story: Gordon listens to why Batman thinks Harvey Dent didn't murder those villians as Batman & Robin are fighting the Thomas Wayne Batman and the Earth 2 Robin with Superboy-Prime thanks to Scarecrow's gas. But as the Dynamic Duo return to Gotham Police HQ, Two Face announces his return.

On the Jason Bard side of things: he subdues the hitman that killed Orca's husband. As he reports back to Batman, he sees the news on Two Face.

Here is the gearup to the finale of the arc that is the next issue. Two Face returned in the previous issue, you knew it and he knew it. Now in this one: EVERYONE KNOWS IT. Now this could destroy Batman's idea that Harvey did not do those crimes but his idea (& my theory) still stands out.

In this issue: Batman tells Gordon that after examining the gun, the screws were taken off and rescrewed back plus the prints of Harvey were placed on. Now the question is: who is framing Harvey? With the theory of Two Face doin' the crimes to get Harvey back in the "good olde' days" in my brain, I believe Two Face did all this. You would have to wonder why the title of this arc is "FACE THE FACE", as in Harvey's face FACE-ING Two Face. Make sense.

Now that the Crisis happened, even the current DCU knows the multiverse and the differences of even themsleves and the world they live. Due to Scarecrow's gas: Batman fights the Thomas Wayne Batman. The whole thing behind his dad as the caped crusader was that around the '40s and '50s, Batman remembered that his dad wore a bat costume on one halloween night and thus would be one of the influences he had becomin Batman. And Robin fought two people: first was Earth 2 Robin, which fought defending Gotham alongside Earth 2 Huntress after Batman of Earth 2 died. And finally; he fought Superboy-Prime. How he fought him leads more into what Batman's plans for Robin (I'll get back to you on that) as Robin did not do anything in the killing part of fighting, he just fought him. Nothing more, nothing less. Proving he can control his anger.

Also, on Scarecrow: talk about a Batman Begins reference. His design is that of the Cillian Murphy Scarectrow from the movie. I wonder if they did that for fun, or its related to the New Earth result of the end of Infinite Crisis, I don't know. I thought it was a good thing pointing out.

As for Batman's plans for Robin: what happened in this issue? He told Robin he had plans for him....that's it. Not much but at least he knows. And Batman said he wants to talk about it after the Harvey thing is taken care of. With only one more issue to go, we will FINALLY know what will he has in store.

Also, we have development on one of the new cops in Gotham: Harper. Batman found out she is the grandniece of the Guardian from the Golden Age. And something he kinda avoided in Detective Comics #817: he greets her and tells her its nice to have her in Gotham. Why he didn't do that when he returned is on my mind: one reason is prolly THE reason is that he was light now but when he returned he wanted to still make the same impression that he was still dark Batman and nothing lighter, and less of a dick. So that might have been the case.

Overall; this was a good issue. Now one more issue to go to finish the run and all our questions will be answered!

RATING: 8/10

[Mee]

are we sure that's ibn? i'm not saying it isn't, but i just haven't seen anything official on it, yet.
Looks like Hiro (Toyman) to me.

[The Caped Knight]

BATMAN OYL has been amazing, I can't wait to find out all the answer to the question I have .

[sinewave]

so, let's speculate on what bruce plans on discussing with tim. we know it's not about gaining legal custody of him, since that was already attempted and tim declined the offer. i'm guessing it's one of two things, 1) bruce would like to make tim his beneficiary and heir to the wayne fortune, or 2) bruce would like to officially offer the role of batman to tim once he finally retires. anybody else got any other possibilities or opinions?

[Binker]

I think he'll try again on the custody. If you think about it, one of things Batman mentioned on the plans for Tim was he remembered how he declined for a sidekick. Thats my top choice. My second top choice is what you said of Tim maybe becoming Batman. If thats the case, Tim would think back on the possible future seen in Teen Titans "The Future is Now" and that idea would affect the upcoming "Batman and Son" arc. Either or.

Basically, everything related to Tim is a clue. We can figure it out.

[TheCorpulent1]

The likeliest thing seems to be #2 at the moment. Dick's declared that he wants to be his own man and doesn't feel that Batman is where his future lies. Plus, let's face it: Tim's smarter and better at detective work than the rest of the Bat family (except Babs) put together. He's been Batman's heir in spirit and MO for years already, far more than Dick the acrobat or Cassie the fighter or Babs the hacker.

Outside of that, I can't really think of anything else Bruce would have to offer Tim. He tried adopting him and Tim declined. It'd be a major betrayal, in my opinion, for Bruce to will the bulk of his possessions to anyone other than Dick or Alfred (though I could see him including Tim in his will for a piece of the pie). Nothing else really jumps into my head...

[The Caped Knight]

so, let's speculate on what bruce plans on discussing with tim. we know it's not about gaining legal custody of him, since that was already attempted and tim declined the offer. i'm guessing it's one of two things, 1) bruce would like to make tim his beneficiary and heir to the wayne fortune, or 2) bruce would like to officially offer the role of batman to tim once he finally retires. anybody else got any other possibilities or opinions?

That's excatly what I'm thinking . Tim has proven he's worthy of taking up The Mantel of BATMAN. :batman:

http://evilgiraffe.dreamhost.com/graphics/scans/dc820-2.jpg
BATS scared the crap out of Crane . [I must say adding The Scarecrow from BATMAN BEGINS is a very nice touch .] :up: :up:

[Fledermaus]

Its not really the Scarecrow from Batman Begins. Crane didn't have a noose around his neck in Begins. It's more like the animated version, IMO.

[sinewave]

i guess another possiblity could be that bruce is already aware of the fact that he's got a kid (with talia) and maybe he's trying to break that to tim and possibly ask that tim take the kid under his wing and train him as a side-kick furhter down the road.

[sinewave]

Its not really the Scarecrow from Batman Begins. Crane didn't have a noose around his neck in Begins. It's more like the animated version, IMO.

i think he did have a rope around his neck in BB. i'll try and find a picture...

edit: here you go. there's clearly a rope/noose around his neck in this pic.

http://ffmedia.ign.com/batman/image/article/611/611659/scarecrow_katie1_1115755913-001.jpg

[Fledermaus]

I stand corrected. Nice nips as well.

Check this out from silverbulletcomics.com:
• Both Johns and DiDio insisted that their intentions about Infinite Crisis did not change at all during the production of the series (e.g. Superboy Prime was never intended to join the Legion of Super-Heroes; the multiverse was never intended to return permanently, Infinite Crisis was never intended to reboot continuity). Johns said, “The [current DCU] Earth is 99.9% the same Earth [as before Infinite Crisis.” DiDio described three “subtle” changes to continuity as a result of Infinite Crisis: certain details about Superman’s adolescence, Wonder Woman’s re-establishment as a founding member of the Justice League of America, and Batman’s apprehension of Joe Chill, the man responsible for his parents’ murder;

So Batman caught him. We have to see that.

[TheCorpulent1]

It'll probably be in Batman Confidential.

[warren_sparta27]

i'm think that Bruce will try to gain legal custody of Tim again.
but whatever it is it will be great, the current arc has been excellent.

[TheCorpulent1]

Bruce trying to adopt Tim again would suck.

[warren_sparta27]

maybe, but they have some great writers on Batman at the moment, so whatever then plan on doing i have no worries.

[sinewave]

but why try to adopt a 17 year old? he'll be a legal adult in another year, and he's already proven he's mature enough to live on his own. unless it's for legal reasons like making him one of bruce's beneficiaries.

[trustyside-kick]

One thing I am liking is this Jason Bard character. Pretty cool to see him do his work by day and Bat's work by night.

Face the Face is great so far. When reading the part with Batman getting ready to ask Tim something...him possibly adopting him never came into my mind.

[kiuju2k]

Ok so they're saying the crisis starting from identity crisis was just to make subtle retcons to batman, superman, and wonderwoman? What a waste. I like to give them more credit than that.

[TheCorpulent1]

but why try to adopt a 17 year old? he'll be a legal adult in another year, and he's already proven he's mature enough to live on his own. unless it's for legal reasons like making him one of bruce's beneficiaries.
I'm fairly sure you can will things to people who aren't legally related to you. Tim's probably already in Bruce's will for some amount of his fortune.

The fact that Tim will soon be a legal adult is a good one, but I think the most important one against the adoption idea is that Bruce already tried it. Tim wasn't interested. He was so uninterested, in fact, that he devised an elaborate ploy involving a fake "long-lost uncle" to have a legal guardian other than Bruce without hurting Bruce's feelings. Not to mention the fact that Tim's stepmom is probably out of the hospital by now, given that she's had a whole year to recover from the trauma of losing Tim's dad. She'd be his legal guardian.

[trustyside-kick]

Honestly when Bruce was hinting at wanting to ask Tim something...adoption never came to mind...and I doubt that is what it is.

[sinewave]

I'm fairly sure you can will things to people who aren't legally related to you. Tim's probably already in Bruce's will for some amount of his fortune.

The fact that Tim will soon be a legal adult is a good one, but I think the most important one against the adoption idea is that Bruce already tried it. Tim wasn't interested. He was so uninterested, in fact, that he devised an elaborate ploy involving a fake "long-lost uncle" to have a legal guardian other than Bruce without hurting Bruce's feelings. Not to mention the fact that Tim's stepmom is probably out of the hospital by now, given that she's had a whole year to recover from the trauma of losing Tim's dad. She'd be his legal guardian.

yeah, i'm aware of tim's scheme to avoid adoption. as far as his stepmom, wasn't she proven mentally unstable and thus not a suitable guardian for him?

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't remember but if she was, it was over a year ago. She could have recovered by now.

[GoldenAgeHero]

i wouldnt dismiss the whole adoption thing just yet, the whole uncle was a different tim. the tim we see now is entirely different, he said he'll never become like batman/bruce, and look whats happened he is. he might be open for the whole adoption angle.

[warren_sparta27]

after reading the book again, i think Bat's is planning on handing the mantle of to Tim.

[Anubis]

That's what I think too. I also think Tim's gonna tell him to go to hell.

[Mister J]

I just got caught up on 'Face to Face' and it continues to be a good read. Part 8 should be a great end with Harvey back to raising hell. I liked the moment that Bats had with Harper, making amends for brushing her off early on in the arc. The way he spoke about Tim was good too. Outside of what's been mentioned already, I'm clueless on what this idea is that he has for Tim.

[SpideyInATree]

Just read Detective Comics 820 last night. Pretty good issue. I really dug Batman's speech to Scarecrow near the end. And then Robin adding a nice little one liner at the end, good down to earth Batman stuff there. The artwork was very nice in this issue and that really enhanced some of the action sequences.

I wonder what Bruce wants to ask Tim as well. Maybe he's going to offer Tim a job at Wayne Enterprises or something. It's a possibility. I don't think it's the adoption thing considering they already touched upon that. But they may bring it up again considering that its been "One Year Later" and everything.

But this is a fine storyline and it'll be interesting to find out who the real killer is...and then we march on into two new creative teams who show a ridiculous amount of promise on the books, I'm really looking forward to it.

[GoldenAgeHero]

after reading the book again, i think Bat's is planning on handing the mantle of to Tim.

haha hell no. in the second part of face to face, batman says that tim has lost his father and best friend, and he(bruce) feels responsible for it. the last thing bruce is gonna give robin is the bat mantle to tim as consolation. your father died,girlfriend died, and best freind died, yup im gonna give you the bat mantle. i just dont see it.

[Kaleb]

Bruce Wayne said its about the future of Tim Drake not Robin, which leads me to beleve that bruce want to adopt tim.

[TheCorpulent1]

haha hell no. in the second part of face to face, batman says that tim has lost his father and best friend, and he(bruce) feels responsible for it. the last thing bruce is gonna give robin is the bat mantle to tim as consolation. your father died,girlfriend died, and best freind died, yup im gonna give you the bat mantle. i just dont see it.
Bruce became Batman through the loss of loved ones. :confused:

[GoldenAgeHero]

Bruce became Batman through the loss of loved ones. :confused:

but passing over the mantle to tim because of that, isnt the very sentimental, thats seems more like the ASB&R version of bats.

[Darthphere]

but passing over the mantle to tim because of that, isnt the very sentimental, thats seems more like the ASB&R version of bats.


How exactly? It seems to me that Bruce and Tim have grown really close and Bruce understands what Tim is going through. Look at the page from IC#6 were Bruce is holding Tim and he say theyre both orphans. The next logical step is to make Tim the official next in line.

[TheCorpulent1]

Plus it's not like he's going to take the cowl off right there, slap it on Tim, and run off into the night. It'd just be an agreement between the two of them that Bruce would prefer Tim to take over when the time comes. Kind of like an insurance policy to make sure nothing like Jean-Paul ever happens again.

[GoldenAgeHero]

How exactly? It seems to me that Bruce and Tim have grown really close and Bruce understands what Tim is going through. Look at the page from IC#6 were Bruce is holding Tim and he say theyre both orphans. The next logical step is to make Tim the official next in line.

thats not really logical, he's orphaned because of what he does, he didnt choose this path because his family died, it's because he wanted it. In Detective comics 820, the context doesnt even suggest passing on the bat mantle to tim. As several posters have said bruce specifically points out that it's the future of tim drake he wants to discuss, nothing to do with robin(or leaving the robin mantle to one day become batman). This is something bruce wants to put into action immediately, not some future event or what not. so the whole passing on the mantle can be ruled out.

[TheCorpulent1]

The context of the scene doesn't really tell us anything other than the fact that it doesn't deal with Robin, specifically. If Bruce offers Tim the Batman mantle, it wouldn't be about Robin, it'd be about Tim Drake becoming Batman. And I don't know how you can possibly say it's "not some future event" when Bruce specifically says in the comic that he wants to discuss Tim's... wait for it... future. I'm not saying it won't be another adoption attempt, even though that'd be stupid and more than a little creepy on Bruce's part, but nothing can be ruled out, including passing on the mantle. We just haven't been given enough information beyond the fact that Bruce wants to talk to Tim about something.

[sinewave]

The context of the scene doesn't really tell us anything other than the fact that it doesn't deal with Robin, specifically. If Bruce offers Tim the Batman mantle, it wouldn't be about Robin, it'd be about Tim Drake becoming Batman. And I don't know how you can possibly say it's "not some future event" when Bruce specifically says in the comic that he wants to discuss Tim's... wait for it... future. I'm not saying it won't be another adoption attempt, even though that'd be stupid and more than a little creepy on Bruce's part, but nothing can be ruled out, including passing on the mantle. We just haven't been given enough information beyond the fact that Bruce wants to talk to Tim about something.

i agree that bruce probably is going to offer tim the batman mantle after he retires, but i've been thinking about it and i don't think it's out of the question that he might try and discuss the adoption thing again. here's why, maybe he'll try and reason with tim that he'd like to add him as legal heir to the wayne fortune. now, that doesn't mean that he'll be handing the entire fortune to tim and nothing to alfred or dick or barbara, only that he'd like tim to legally receive a share of the estate and some holdings. dick is already a legally adopted heir to bruces legacy, so it makes sense to bring tim into that fold since bruce obviously holds him in high regard and maybe feels like he owes it to him after all the losses he's experienced while assisting bruce in his war on crime. that's the way i see it anyway.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm fairly certain you can will things to people who aren't legal relatives.

[sinewave]

I'm fairly certain you can will things to people who aren't legal relatives.

probably, but it might make it easier to do if he was a legal beneficiary.

[TheCorpulent1]

If Bruce didn't write a will, I suppose. But I imagine anyone as rich as Bruce would have some sort of will. I doubt he'd neglect to leave a considerable amount of money to charities around Gotham, for example, and I think you can only do that in a will.

[sinewave]

If Bruce didn't write a will, I suppose. But I imagine anyone as rich as Bruce would have some sort of will. I doubt he'd neglect to leave a considerable amount of money to charities around Gotham, for example, and I think you can only do that in a will.

maybe he just wants tim to feel like he's got family after all the s##t that's happened to him. i dunno.

hey, are you really from rockport, maine?

[TheCorpulent1]

No, that's just where the Quest compound is. I'm in Florida.

Tim seems to be getting along fine without family. Batman himself pointed out how Tim has lost more than the Scarecrow will ever know, and he's still standing.

[Darthphere]

Tim needs the money, so he can ge the ho's.

[sinewave]

No, that's just where the Quest compound is. I'm in Florida.

Tim seems to be getting along fine without family. Batman himself pointed out how Tim has lost more than the Scarecrow will ever know, and he's still standing.

yup. could be. we'll see.

[TheCorpulent1]

Tim needs the money, so he can ge the ho's.
Tim's got more hos than he knows what to do with. It's those little glove fins. Tim put them on and gained instant pimpage. :p

[sethcohen]

a little off topic, but where the hell does tim live? last i knew he was living with his "uncle" in bludhaven... but thats not the case now... did he just bite the bullet and move into wayne manor?

[sinewave]

a little off topic, but where the hell does tim live? last i knew he was living with his "uncle" in bludhaven... but thats not the case now... did he just bite the bullet and move into wayne manor?

bruce converted part of his horse stables into an apartment for tim. that way tim can live on his own while still having close access to bruce, alfred and the batcave.

[Darthphere]

bruce converted part of his horse stables into an apartment for tim. that way tim can live on his own while still having close access to bruce, alfred and the batcave.


In other words, he lives with Bruce.

[sinewave]

In other words, he lives with Bruce.

yeah, he's lives on bruce's estate.

[sethcohen]

thanks!

[SpideyInATree]

I think that Bruce might offer him a job at Wayne Tech or make him a part of the company so that Tim has something to fall back on.

I don't think they're going to talk adoption. First of all, Tim is about to be 18 soon? Or is already 18? :confused: Either way he's about THERE! So, what's the point in Bruce adopting Tim when he's on the verge of becoming a legal adult. And this was already done in Robin before Infinite Crisis. Remember Robin hiring an actor to play his Uncle so that Bruce couldn't adopt him?

And passing on the mantle? Eh. It's possible but I think it's a little too soon for Bruce to be saying who he's passing the mantle to at that point. He of all people know that you can't exactly count on things for the future.

[sinewave]

I think that Bruce might offer him a job at Wayne Tech or make him a part of the company so that Tim has something to fall back on.

I don't think they're going to talk adoption. First of all, Tim is about to be 18 soon? Or is already 18? :confused: Either way he's about THERE! So, what's the point in Bruce adopting Tim when he's on the verge of becoming a legal adult. And this was already done in Robin before Infinite Crisis. Remember Robin hiring an actor to play his Uncle so that Bruce couldn't adopt him?

And passing on the mantle? Eh. It's possible but I think it's a little too soon for Bruce to be saying who he's passing the mantle to at that point. He of all people know that you can't exactly count on things for the future.

why would he offer him a job at wayne industries? you mean like a cover job so people won't suspect him of being robin? what about college? maybe he's offering him a full scholarship to the school of his choice, like he did for baby helena.

[samurai black]

I think that it probably is going to be the adoption angle again. Although it's been done already, dc will probably want to bring it up again only to make the next arc more interesting. Clearly you see it's Batman and Robin fighting his son on the cover, so having tim considering becoming bruce's son while fighting bruce's real son only makes for better reading and adds another emotional dimension to the fight.

[Fledermaus]

I don't think they're going to talk adoption. First of all, Tim is about to be 18 soon? Or is already 18? :confused: Either way he's about THERE! So, what's the point in Bruce adopting Tim when he's on the verge of becoming a legal adult. And this was already done in Robin before Infinite Crisis. Remember Robin hiring an actor to play his Uncle so that Bruce couldn't adopt him?



Wasn't Dick an adult when Bruce adopted him?