Joss Whedon on the villain in Wonder Woman

[Nightwing]

Joss Whedon on Wonder Woman
Source: ifMagazine.com (http://ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=2917)
May 3, 2006
ifMagazine.com (http://ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=2917) talked to Joss Whedon (http://superherohype.com/news.php?id=4184#) at the Saturn Awards on Tuesday and he gave an update on his Wonder Woman (http://superherohype.com/news.php?id=4184#) feature:
"It's sort of shifting under me," says Whedon. "I'm doing more rewriting on this than I am used to. Finding her was fun, and finding the structure of the film (http://superherohype.com/news.php?id=4184#) was incredibly difficult and fun. I am not bringing in any villains that anyone knows. I will not be bringing in any of the rogues gallery from the comic book (http://superherohype.com/news.php?id=4184#). The villain is original to the film."

I'm really interested in hat he has planned, hopefully it won't turn into a whole disaster. I still believe he could've found some way to establish some of Wonder Woman's known villains from the comics, the big screen. If not, perhaps an extended cameo.

[cerealkiller182]

This is going to be an origin tale, correct?

Whats with DC movies and its fear of Rogues Galleries? At least the Schumacher had some balls to use the gallery unlike the other Superman films.

[Philly Phanboy]

This is going to be an origin tale, correct?

Whats with DC movies and its fear of Rogues Galleries? At least the Schumacher had some balls to use the gallery unlike the other Superman films.

Yeah, I was really surprised when Whedon wanted to do his own villain too. While I don't question his creativity, how hard would it have been to adapt an existing villain?

[zeptron]

This sucks. I was looking forward to see WW fight Aries or Cheetah. They better be in the sequal.(If there is one.)

[Mogwai]

I hope the villain is "Greek" in nature, like Medusa or something.

[DarKush]

Who is in Wonder Woman's Rogue's Gallery?

Ares, Cheetah, Herakles...anyone else?

[cerealkiller182]

^^Circe, I would have liked to see her.


http://rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/WonderWoman.asp
not complete i dont think. Seems to me like there is a lot of general DCU villains rather than specific WW rogues

[ClarkLuther55]

In previous interviews, Whedon has said that he will make his new villain using Greek mythology. I'm still wondering why he feels the need to do this when there's already Ares.

[The Question]

Yeah. Ares seems like a villain Whedon would write. Violent, maipulative, and self centered, but oddly human and caring at times aswell.

[The Overlord]

Who is in Wonder Woman's Rogue's Gallery?

Ares, Cheetah, Herakles...anyone else?

There is also Giganta, Dr. Psycho, Silver Swan and Dr. Poison.

[DarKush]

There is also Giganta, Dr. Psycho, Silver Swan and Dr. Poison.

Thanks Overlord. Don't know much about WW, outside of the old TV show, the Artemis-storyline, and JLU cartoon. I'm glad to know that she has a rogue's gallery that at least sounds like it might be deadly.

[The Question]

Dr. Psycho kicks ass, man. Basically, he's a chauvanistic rapist and serial killer with psychic powers. He violates the mind aswell as the body. One ****ed up individual. He goes after Wonder Woman because she represents feminism and woman power and all that stuff that Psycho despises.

[NotFadeAway]

Dr. Pyshco is the man your right, however Im not a fan of the whole female superhero thing. Women=Damsel in Distress!!!

Dr.Psycho and Black Manta = Two kick ass villians wasted on unimportant heroes!!!!

[The Question]

Dr. Pyshco is the man your right, however Im not a fan of the whole female superhero thing. Women=Damsel in Distress!!!

That is incredibly sexist. The whole point of Wonder Woman is that a woman can kick just as much ass as anyone else. In fact, that was the whole idea behind the Amazons of ancient times in the first place. And, it's also true.

Dr.Psycho and Black Manta = Two kick ass villians wasted on unimportant heroes!!!!

So, you're knocking Aquaman too. Hell, Aquaman and Wonder Woman are the badasses of the Justice League. Batman seems that way, but he lacks any real ability to follow up on the badassery against the foes the League fights. Wonder Woman and Aquaman, however, are fully capable of laying the hurt on the likes of Despero and Mongul.

[NotFadeAway]

Well it may be sexist but it's true, no one other than pure fans of Wonder Woman or any other female hero truly give a damn!!!!! I stand by my statement!!

[TheGrayGhost]

So, you're knocking Aquaman too. Hell, Aquaman and Wonder Woman are the badasses of the Justice League. Batman seems that way, but he lacks any real ability to follow up on the badassery against the foes the League fights. Wonder Woman and Aquaman, however, are fully capable of laying the hurt on the likes of Despero and Mongul.

Still continuing the fight, huh? Needless to say, I disagree.

[The Question]

Well it may be sexist but it's true,

No, it's not.

no one other than pure fans of Wonder Woman or any other female hero truly give a damn!!!!! I stand by my statement!!

Most people do give a damn.

Still continuing the fight, huh? Needless to say, I disagree.

You're telling me that Batman would actually stand a chance in a fight with Despero. That he could actually hurt Despero. The guy who took on Aquaman and Martian Manhunter at the same time. The guy who's nearly killed the entire league dozens of times over. My god. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

[NotFadeAway]

Yes I two am mocking Aquaman......

How Aquaman recieves ANYTHING over The Flash and Green Lantern is beyond me!!!!!

[The Question]

Yes I two am mocking Aquaman......

How Aquaman recieves ANYTHING over The Flash and Green Lantern is beyond me!!!!!


What do you mean? What has he received "over" GL and Flash? All three have solo books, all three are usual members of the League, and all three have some great villains.

[TheGrayGhost]

You're telling me that Batman would actually stand a chance in a fight with Despero. That he could actually hurt Despero. The guy who took on Aquaman and Martian Manhunter at the same time. The guy who's nearly killed the entire league dozens of times over. My god. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Not anymore ridiculous than Lex Luthor posing a threat to the entire League or Dr. Doom posing a threat to the entire Marvel Universe, including Galactus. And, yeah, I know you will say that there's no comparison between Batman and these two supervillains, but I say that they are at least (and that's being conservative) in the same field of capacity. But let's not get into the debate here...

I'm really rooting for WonderWoman to be an excellent film. It certainly has potential; I want all of The Big Three to have excellent films.

[The Question]

Not anymore ridiculous than Lex Luthor posing a threat to the entire League or Dr. Doom posing a threat to the entire Marvel Universe, including Galactus. And, yeah, I know you will say that there's no comparison between Batman and these two supervillains, but I say that they are at least (and that's being conservative) in the same field of capacity. But let's not get into the debate here...

Please. Lets.


Lex and Doom are different. First off, Doom's never posed a threat to the entire Marvel Universe. Only groups of the Marvel Universe. And here's a little thing about Lex being a threat to the League. He had help. He brought together extremely powerful criminals to do the actual work for him. He just drew out the plans. That's very different from Batman taking on the likes of Despero and Mongul on his own.

[The Guard]

Damn. I wanted to see Circe. Oh well. Let's hope the villain is a Nazi.

[The Question]

.....you know what, Grey? I'm sorry. I take this stuff way to seriously. Just ignore my last post.

[BrianWilly]

Well it may be sexist but it's true, no one other than pure fans of Wonder Woman or any other female hero truly give a damn!!!!! I stand by my statement!!Your statement is wrong and outdated, not to mention offensive and rude.

[Nightwing]

Damn. I wanted to see Circe. Oh well. Let's hope the villain is a Nazi.

I would rather see Circe as a villian if the idea of having a sequel arises, after this one.

Your statement is wrong and outdated, not to mention offensive and rude.

Agreed.

[Red Mask]

We'll have to wait more and see who this new villain is.

[BATFREDDIE]

Goddamnit, I want ARES DAMNIT!!!!

[ImperfectIcon]

This movie is going down big time! Wedon is showing his lack of creativity by not using the already established enemies of Wonder Woman. Oh that's right, he wasn't even a fan of hers to start with.

What's next no more golden lasso, only a bandolier full of wooden stakes?

This movie is gonna get impaled alright.

WB take note. Wonder Woman will bomb at the box office. Kill off the Buffyman and find someone who will do the Amazing Amazon justice!

[Abaddon]

The new villain:
http://www.vulkon.com/images/ClareKramer.jpg
:p

[The Question]

This movie is going down big time! Wedon is showing his lack of creativity by not using the already established enemies of Wonder Woman. Oh that's right, he wasn't even a fan of hers to start with.

Wouldn't coming up with a new villain show more creativity, since he's, you know, creating something new? :confused:

What's next no more golden lasso, only a bandolier full of wooden stakes?

Why would he do that? As far as I know, Wonder Woman isn't going to be fighting vampires. Besides, Whedon knows about weapons. He'd probably encorperate some ancient greek style battle axes for the big fight scenes.

[Abaddon]

This movie is going down big time! Wedon is showing his lack of creativity by not using the already established enemies of Wonder Woman. Oh that's right, he wasn't even a fan of hers to start with.

What's next no more golden lasso, only a bandolier full of wooden stakes?

This movie is gonna get impaled alright.

WB take note. Wonder Woman will bomb at the box office. Kill off the Buffyman and find someone who will do the Amazing Amazon justice!


Its cool that you can see into the future.:)

[BrianWilly]

Wedon is showing his lack of creativity by not using the already established enemies of Wonder Woman....you do realize that this sentence makes no sense, right? If he uses established enemies, then he's being less creative since they've already been created.

[Red Mask]

The new villain:
http://www.vulkon.com/images/ClareKramer.jpg
:p

Awww no. It might come off as one of those gods in Xena.

[The Question]

You know, I could actually see Glory being a good Wonder Woman villain.

[Abaddon]

Awww no. It might come off as one of those gods in Xena.


Like Diana versus Callisto?:eek::o
http://hercxena.hidden-tears.org/images/callisto02.jpg

[Nightwing]

This movie is going down big time! Wedon is showing his lack of creativity by not using the already established enemies of Wonder Woman. Oh that's right, he wasn't even a fan of hers to start with.

What's next no more golden lasso, only a bandolier full of wooden stakes?

This movie is gonna get impaled alright.

WB take note. Wonder Woman will bomb at the box office. Kill off the Buffyman and find someone who will do the Amazing Amazon justice!

I can never understand why people easily lose faith in something just because the idea may not seem great. He HAS been a fan hers before signing on for the film, he just isn't a fan of her rouges gallery is all. Also, he's said the lasso will be in the film.

[Abaddon]

You know, I could actually see Glory being a good Wonder Woman villain.


Hmm,an airhead demon God(dess) versus an Amazonian super-powered chick?Would be interesting. I have a suspicion that the villain might actually be male though.

[The Question]

I can never understand why people easily lose faith in something just because the idea may not seem great. He HAS been a fan hers before signing on for the film, he just isn't a fan of her rouges gallery is all. Also, he's said the lasso will be in the film.

Actually, he's said that he's always been more of a Marvel guy than DC. But he's been reading up on alot of the Perez and Rucka stuff since he got the job.

Hmm,an airhead demon God(dess) versus an Amazonian super-powered chick?Would be interesting. I have a suspicion that the villain might actually be male though.

Maybe. Since the villain is based in Greek mythology, I'm thinking maybe a demi god looking to prove himself.

[ImperfectIcon]

...you do realize that this sentence makes no sense, right? If he uses established enemies, then he's being less creative since they've already been created.

It makes perfect sense! Wedon feels he cant use them. Why? Because he's not a fan of Wonder Woman...he does not know them. He cannot use these characters creatively as viable or believable enemies. I bet there is someone out there who "knows" Wonder Woman and can do a better job that Mr Wedon. I hope that there are wise heads in WB to have Wedon step down so he/she can step up.

[The Question]

It makes perfect sense! Wedon feels he cant use them. Why? Because he's not a fan of Wonder Woman...he does not know them. He cannot use these characters creatively as viable or believable enemies. I bet there is someone out there who "knows" Wonder Woman and can do a better job that Mr Wedon. I hope that there are wise heads in WB to have Wedon step down so he/she can step up.


But using his own character still shows more creativity, since he is creating something new. And really, why is it a big deal if he uses a new villain? I mean, we all want to have a new story when we see these movies, and not the same storylines rehashed.

[Abaddon]

Maybe. Since the villain is based in Greek mythology, I'm thinking maybe a demi god looking to prove himself.


Plenty to choose from. Hopefully a more obscure one.

[Nightwing]

Actually, he's said that he's always been more of a Marvel guy than DC. But he's been reading up on alot of the Perez and Rucka stuff since he got the job.

True. He's also said that he's gotten a great understanding for the character, which is helping him well for the script.

[ImperfectIcon]

I can never understand why people easily lose faith in something just because the idea may not seem great. He HAS been a fan hers before signing on for the film, he just isn't a fan of her rouges gallery is all. Also, he's said the lasso will be in the film.

I seem to recall the Wedon himself said he wasn't a fan of Wonder Woman and doesn't know a great deal about her.

It's like puting a taxi driver behind the controls of a jet fighter...

...we DO have the time to get this right, well sort of...

...So lets stab wedon's project with as much stakes as possible, and kill this frankenstein before it is let loose on the world.

[ImperfectIcon]

But using his own character still shows more creativity, since he is creating something new. And really, why is it a big deal if he uses a new villain? I mean, we all want to have a new story when we see these movies, and not the same storylines rehashed.

My fear is that as his little changes pile up, we might wind up seeing Wonder Woman In Name Only (WWINO). That's unacceptable.

No one has ever done a WW feature film so it will be new and not rehashed.

[The Overlord]

Dr. Psycho kicks ass, man. Basically, he's a chauvanistic rapist and serial killer with psychic powers. He violates the mind aswell as the body. One ****ed up individual. He goes after Wonder Woman because she represents feminism and woman power and all that stuff that Psycho despises.

While we are on this topic, who do you think would make a good Dr. Psycho? I would say Danny Woodburn:

http://imdb.com/name/nm0940173/

[The Overlord]

...you do realize that this sentence makes no sense, right? If he uses established enemies, then he's being less creative since they've already been created.

Perhaps, but why reinvent the wheel, while WW has had some bad villains (the Mouse and Egg Fu) it seems that she has some fearsome villains (Ares and Dr. Psycho) that she has a history with in the comics. So if she has some villains that have been proven to work, why put her against some new villain that people may not like, when you can put her against a villain you know that the fans would like?

[Abaddon]

Maybe it just works better with the origin story he's using.

[The Overlord]

Maybe it just works better with the origin story he's using.

Well this new villain had better be damn impressive, because in the past all the "original" villains that have appeared in comic book movies have been really lame.

[ClarkLuther55]

Whedon making his own villain is more creative. But in an adaptation, "creativity" isn't always a good thing. I'm not going to dismiss this movie as crap already, but I do find it annoying that Whedon wants to make up his own mythology-based villain when WW's real archenemy is an Olympian god. Really, I'm just confused about the thought process in Whedon's head that led him to this decision.

[ImperfectIcon]

Whedon making his own villain is more creative. But in an adaptation, "creativity" isn't always a good thing. I'm not going to dismiss this movie as crap already, but I do find it annoying that Whedon wants to make up his own mythology-based villain when WW's real archenemy is an Olympian god. Really, I'm just confused about the thought process in Whedon's head that led him to this decision.

While I don't like Whedon's idea of a new original bad guy I guess the audience as a whole (except the WW fanatics) wont notice it. Let's just hope this is THE ONLY CHANGE that he will make from now on.

[CConn]

I agree Abaddon, as I was thinking if the movies about Wonder Woman discovering the "society of man" it would make more sense to have a villain who is directly related to that society than having her going off to fight Ares on Mount Olympus. Y'know, sorta have a Luthor vs. Superman type of battle where the villain hates WW for being different or whatever.

Now obviously, I have no idea what the script involves, and it could very well be a horrible idea, but there is that rationale for it, at least.

[Marcus M.]

The only way I would pay to see this moovie is if Kelly Osbourne gets the lead role as Wonder Woman.

[Phatman]

Okay, now I'm starting to get scared. In between the casting, the planned costume changes, and reading about this new "original" villain seems like Whedon is channeling Schumacher on this project. I'm beginning to wonder if Batman Begins will be a fluke and not the new normal at WB. I'm holding my breath about Superman Returns which looks uninspired. The more I hear about this project it seems like WB is gone back to its old habits.

Whedon seems to be blowing the opportunity of a lifetime. WW has a great rogues gallery. In the hands of a great scriptwriter Cheetah, Ares and Circe would be amazing onscreen. By creating his own villian seems to be him saying WW's characters are not good enough for him to work with. By him saying he needs to change the costume is him saying WW is not good enough for him to work with. Maybe in the aftermath of Buffy and Angel he's had a glass of George Lucas' Kool-Aid. Joss, come down off that high horse before you hurt yourself. Give Chris Nolan and David Goyer a Call.

[CConn]

Chris Nolan and David Goyer changed Batman's costume.

[ultimatefan]

I think Ares could have been a good villain if done right. I always had my reservations with Whedom doing WW, and this seems to confirm it. He says he´s doing more rewrites than usual, and my feeling is that it´s because he wasn´t the right writing voice for this to begin with.

[The Question]

I agree Abaddon, as I was thinking if the movies about Wonder Woman discovering the "society of man" it would make more sense to have a villain who is directly related to that society than having her going off to fight Ares on Mount Olympus. Y'know, sorta have a Luthor vs. Superman type of battle where the villain hates WW for being different or whatever.


Well, he said the villain is based in Greek mythology. Maybe it'll be like in Neil Gaiman's "American Gods." A mythological figure, but modernized. He or she has changed with the times and learned to exist in a modern world. The Amazons haven't, which is why they're reclusive.

Okay, now I'm starting to get scared. In between the casting, the planned costume changes, and reading about this new "original" villain seems like Whedon is channeling Schumacher on this project. I'm beginning to wonder if Batman Begins will be a fluke and not the new normal at WB. I'm holding my breath about Superman Returns which looks uninspired. The more I hear about this project it seems like WB is gone back to its old habits.

Joel Shumacher's movies, in terms of the character's stories and personalities, were rather acurate to the books. They just had a very campy tone to them and crappy one liners, which didn't work for a Batman movie.

Whedon seems to be blowing the opportunity of a lifetime. WW has a great rogues gallery. In the hands of a great scriptwriter Cheetah, Ares and Circe would be amazing onscreen. By creating his own villian seems to be him saying WW's characters are not good enough for him to work with. By him saying he needs to change the costume is him saying WW is not good enough for him to work with. Maybe in the aftermath of Buffy and Angel he's had a glass of George Lucas' Kool-Aid. Joss, come down off that high horse before you hurt yourself. Give Chris Nolan and David Goyer a Call.

Nolan and Goyer changed the batsuit alot. And all Whedon said about the costume was "no star spangled panties." And I agree with that. They'd look bad on screen. He'll probably go for a look like this:

http://users.marshall.edu/~lewis77/WonderWomancolor.jpg

Or this:

http://hometown.aol.com/linacarol/cost.aug99.400x291.gif

Or this:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8743/battlearmorww27ry.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/)



As for the villain, he said it would be based in Greek Mythology, so that's not straying particularly far from the source.

[ImperfectIcon]

I think Ares could have been a good villain if done right. I always had my reservations with Whedom doing WW, and this seems to confirm it. He says he´s doing more rewrites than usual, and my feeling is that it´s because he wasn´t the right writing voice for this to begin with.

I agree. Unfortunately as far as we know WB does not. Looks like I'll be taking cover when this bomb hits the cinemas.

[ImperfectIcon]

Personally I'd stick with the "Star Spangled Panties". I would like to watch Wonder Woman, not Xena. I don't see any problem with the satin tights.

If WW comics readers had a problem with it then a permanent change would have resulted.

Not too many people have a problem with Superman wearing his underwear on the outside. That is his identity, and should not be messed with. Look what happened when DC had the new look "Electric blue" Superman...it didn't really catch on did it? Last time I checked Superman still wears the classic costume that he is famous for, so really...why would you change Wonder Woman's.

Don't mess with the tights!

[The Question]

Changing Wonder Woman's star spangled panties to a more armored skirt look is nowhere near as extreme a change as Superman Blue. And, personally, I liked the Superman Blue look. Just not the power change. And really, the star spangled panties wouldn't work on screen. They wouldn't make sense. Why would a warrior from a society modeled after ancient greece and rome where blue star spangled panties? Besides, she's worn the armored skirt in the comics before.

[ImperfectIcon]

Changing Wonder Woman's star spangled panties to a more armored skirt look is nowhere near as extreme a change as Superman Blue. And, personally, I liked the Superman Blue look. Just not the power change. And really, the star spangled panties wouldn't work on screen. They wouldn't make sense. Why would a warrior from a society modeled after ancient greece and rome where blue star spangled panties? Besides, she's worn the armored skirt in the comics before.

Diana Trevor, a US Womens Auxillary Air Corps Test Pilot, and mother of Steve Trevor, got lost in a storm and crashed her XP-86 Sabre jet on Themyscira. She helped the Amazons fight the evil that was trying to come out from under the island, losing her life in the process.

In tribute the Amazons designed a costume to be worn by their representative to Man's World that was modelled on the uniform, specifically the insignia Diana Trevor was wearing (Stars and Bars, U.S. Flag etc).

The Bullets And Bracelets test, the final trial for Princess Diana (who was named after the late Mrs Trevor) involved her namesake's Colt 45, which she obviously passed in order to offically become Wonder Woman.
The competition for a representative to Man's world, as you know, came about because the Greek God's and Goddesses were worried about Ares and his plans to start WW3.

The job of the Amazonian representative was to go into Man's world and counteract Ares plans, preaching and teaching about peace, tolerance and friendship among the people.

The urgency of the matter increased when a nuclear bomb detonated near Themyscira, which was dropped by an F-4 Phantom jet fighter piloted by Colonel Steve Trevor and one of Ares' minions, who tried to kill the war-weary U.S. Air Force hero in flight. Wonder Woman pulled him from the submerged wreckage of his jet and he received treatment on the island. Diana was then mandated to take him back to Man's World and stop Ares.

And thats how it all came about!

[The Question]

Still, panties over a more traditional armored skirt? Doesn't seem practical. I think the armored skirt would look alot better. 'Sides, she's worn it before in the comics. Not that huge of a change.

[BrianWilly]

Okay, now I'm starting to get scared. In between the casting, the planned costume changes, and reading about this new "original" villain seems like Whedon is channeling Schumacher on this project. I'm beginning to wonder if Batman Begins will be a fluke and not the new normal at WB. I'm holding my breath about Superman Returns which looks uninspired. The more I hear about this project it seems like WB is gone back to its old habits.What exactly have you heard about the casting, pray tell? Whedon has said close to absolutely nothing about his casting choice, and he has said absolutely nothing about any specific actresses.

Whedon seems to be blowing the opportunity of a lifetime. WW has a great rogues gallery. In the hands of a great scriptwriter Cheetah, Ares and Circe would be amazing onscreen. By creating his own villian seems to be him saying WW's characters are not good enough for him to work with. By him saying he needs to change the costume is him saying WW is not good enough for him to work with. Maybe in the aftermath of Buffy and Angel he's had a glass of George Lucas' Kool-Aid. Joss, come down off that high horse before you hurt yourself. Give Chris Nolan and David Goyer a Call.Whedon is not changing the costume.

[NotFadeAway]

What do you mean? What has he received "over" GL and Flash? All three have solo books, all three are usual members of the League, and all three have some great villains.

Well Aqua is getting a live action series, and even though it will suck because it's the WB, I really want to see GL or Flash in live action sometime in the next 5 years!!!

And Wonder Woman getting her own movie means less money for either for a movie, which is also BS!!!!

[NotFadeAway]

Your statement is wrong and outdated, not to mention offensive and rude.

Well sorry but it's true, this movie will TANK because the general audience, the principle money makers for tentpole movies such as this one and not little fanboys/girls, honestly don't care about women kickin arse. The women are the cute yet vulnerable damsels in distress.

[The Question]

Well Aqua is getting a live action series, and even though it will suck because it's the WB, I really want to see GL or Flash in live action sometime in the next 5 years!!!

Well, Mercy Reef'll probably suck from what I've heard so far. But if done right, and Aquaman series could kick ass. He's a very solid character.

And Wonder Woman getting her own movie means less money for either for a movie, which is also BS!!!!

Why? Wonder Woman is just as good a ncharacter as GL or The Flash. And don't give me that "damsel in destress" crap. There are plenty of women, both in real life and in fiction, who could probably kick alot of guys' asses.

Well sorry but it's true, this movie will TANK because the general audience, the principle money makers for tentpole movies such as this one and not little fanboys/girls, honestly don't care about women kickin arse. The women are the cute yet vulnerable damsels in distress.

That's not the opinion of the general audience. That's the opinion of the general sexist.

[GL1]

Well, as much as this is not what I would've done, this is HARDly surprising... Whedon made it VERY clear from the VERY beginning that this movie would be particularly story-driven. And while the story revolves around Wonder Woman, the story is NOT character-driven... the story defines the characters, not the other way around, in this case... in this particular style of movie-development. Good examples of story driven movies include Lord of the Rings and Phone Booth. The characters are selected and created in order to serve the story, as opposed to a story being created to serve the characters...

While selecting an origional villain is certainly not that of a huge Wonder Woman fan (and I've seen the sales, there's only two of you)... keep in mind that her rogues gallery is seVEREly limited... anyone who doesn't want to tell a tale about Sexism or decidedly female issues is SEVERELY hampered. Perhaps if you want to dwell on themes of peace vs war, you could bring in Ares, but if the direcor is not trying to make a big statement about the war in Iraq or Women in Society today, then Wonder Woman's rogue's gallery is all but useless, not to mention that many of them are inferior in raw power to the woman herself.

And the villain is a part of Greek Mythology. That means they're part of Wonder Woman's mythos already, they just haven't been featured in the comic books... assuming of course this is an established part of Greek Mythology, they're already a part of Wonder Woman's world... they've already heard of her, IN THE COMICS, even if they haven't been shown in the comics yet....

Also, no big changes have been made...

[Lestat74]

First off, I'm a HUGE Wonder Woman fan, I have the entire run of the current comic as well as many earlier ones, not to mention a ton of WW products. But the people here who are who are saying things like Joss Whedon is gonna make it like Buffy and have her use wooden stakes, or saying he's uncreative for not using any of the comic book villains are really just being plain ignorant. Let's take this point by point, shall we?

#1: A Wonder Woman movie needs to have the elements that make her iconic. By iconic I mean things that the casual fan, or someone who is merely exposed to her via other media, might know. These things are: She's a tall, brunette Amazon named Diana, the first to go to Man's World in centuries; she has a magic lasso and bullet proof bracelets; Her mother is Queen Hippolyta; and she is super strong and fast;and finally,The costume. Also, to most of the world she has an invisible plane. Because of the TV show, as well as Superfriends, that is what most people know.

Joss Whedon has stated numerous times that he plans to keep ALL those elements. Yes, even the costume. All he said was it won't be panties, that it would have a little more "Greek in it", much like the costume is often drawn these days. Wonder Woman's villains, unlike Superman's or Batman's, are NOT iconic. No one outside comics fandom knows them, and even in comics fandom lots of people don't know them. Just the fact that he is using a villain steeped in Greek Mythology should be enough to keep the rabid fans happy, but of course it's not. Also, most of these very same fanboys totally revere the old Wonder Woman TV Show, when, aside from the pilot, NEVER touches upon the Greek Mythology aspect again, and never used ANY of her villains. Hell, Joss Whedon is even using Steve Trevor, an once vital part of WW mythos that has been all but ignored for the past 15 or so years.

#2: The argument that Joss Whedon isn't a "fan" of Wonder Woman so therefore should not get the job. I didn't know that Huge Wonder Woman fanboys like Spielberg, Peter Jackson, David Fincher and Ridley Scott were not asked to direct this!! Oh wait, maybe they never wanted it. Sure, there may be some director out there who is also an uber WW fanboy....ummm....can you name him? Joss Whedon is simply the best person for the job because unlike a LOT of male directors, he is a true feminist, and has written very strong female roles for all his characters in every series. He created the best Female action show ever, AND understands the world of comics. He never said he didn't like Wonder Woman, only that he wasn't a fan of her comic for the most part and, let's face it, the WW comic has had some serious creative droughts over the decades. For the most part, she has ALWAYS been a better character than a comic. ( Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but you all know I'm not wrong ) He's even said he's read alot of the Perez stuff as well as the Rucka stuff, so it's not like he didn't do research. And I'll go out on a limb and say that he knew more about WW coming into this project than, say, Bryan Singer did when coming onboard X-Men.

Seriously, some of you guys should do a google search and read some reviews of the previous WW scripts...one had Wonder Woman be Donna Troy, the daughter of the original WW and who was a Super spy! I'm serious. Look it up, and then come back here and whine.

Now, it may still bomb at the box office, but if Joss does it, it WILL be good. Mark my words.

[JesusOfNazarath]

It'd be cool if they had Dr. Pycho, but I think this will be more of a family film.

[The Question]

Okay. Based on what we've heard, and what I know of Joss' work, this is my guess for how the villain's turned out:


1) It is either a greek god of some sort (most likely candidates being Eres, Ares, Hera, or Hecate from what I know of Greek Mythology), or the child of a greek god. Since he said the character is of his creation, I'm assuming that the latter is the case.

2) The god (or demi god) has succesfully reinvented his or herself for modern times. He or she learned to adapt as things changed. The Amazons did not, which makes the villain and WOnder Woman foils for one another.

3) The villain could, easily, first apear guised as a human and become an aquaintence of Diana.

4) Knowing Joss' love for metaphores, the villain could possibly serve as a metaphore for the corruption of modern times, or to show the point that modern times are no more corrupt than the past, and we simply look at past decades through the beer goggles of nostalgia.

[ImperfectIcon]

First off, I'm a HUGE Wonder Woman fan, I have the entire run of the current comic as well as many earlier ones, not to mention a ton of WW products. But the people here who are who are saying things like Joss Whedon is gonna make it like Buffy and have her use wooden stakes, or saying he's uncreative for not using any of the comic book villains are really just being plain ignorant. Let's take this point by point, shall we?

#1: A Wonder Woman movie needs to have the elements that make her iconic. By iconic I mean things that the casual fan, or someone who is merely exposed to her via other media, might know. These things are: She's a tall, brunette Amazon named Diana, the first to go to Man's World in centuries; she has a magic lasso and bullet proof bracelets; Her mother is Queen Hippolyta; and she is super strong and fast;and finally,The costume. Also, to most of the world she has an invisible plane. Because of the TV show, as well as Superfriends, that is what most people know.

Joss Whedon has stated numerous times that he plans to keep ALL those elements. Yes, even the costume. All he said was it won't be panties, that it would have a little more "Greek in it", much like the costume is often drawn these days. Wonder Woman's villains, unlike Superman's or Batman's, are NOT iconic. No one outside comics fandom knows them, and even in comics fandom lots of people don't know them. Just the fact that he is using a villain steeped in Greek Mythology should be enough to keep the rabid fans happy, but of course it's not. Also, most of these very same fanboys totally revere the old Wonder Woman TV Show, when, aside from the pilot, NEVER touches upon the Greek Mythology aspect again, and never used ANY of her villains. Hell, Joss Whedon is even using Steve Trevor, an once vital part of WW mythos that has been all but ignored for the past 15 or so years.

#2: The argument that Joss Whedon isn't a "fan" of Wonder Woman so therefore should not get the job. I didn't know that Huge Wonder Woman fanboys like Spielberg, Peter Jackson, David Fincher and Ridley Scott were not asked to direct this!! Oh wait, maybe they never wanted it. Sure, there may be some director out there who is also an uber WW fanboy....ummm....can you name him? Joss Whedon is simply the best person for the job because unlike a LOT of male directors, he is a true feminist, and has written very strong female roles for all his characters in every series. He created the best Female action show ever, AND understands the world of comics. He never said he didn't like Wonder Woman, only that he wasn't a fan of her comic for the most part and, let's face it, the WW comic has had some serious creative droughts over the decades. For the most part, she has ALWAYS been a better character than a comic. ( Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but you all know I'm not wrong ) He's even said he's read alot of the Perez stuff as well as the Rucka stuff, so it's not like he didn't do research. And I'll go out on a limb and say that he knew more about WW coming into this project than, say, Bryan Singer did when coming onboard X-Men.

Seriously, some of you guys should do a google search and read some reviews of the previous WW scripts...one had Wonder Woman be Donna Troy, the daughter of the original WW and who was a Super spy! I'm serious. Look it up, and then come back here and whine.

Now, it may still bomb at the box office, but if Joss does it, it WILL be good. Mark my words.

As I pour over the Geroge Perez (the first 10 issues of the 86/87 Post-Crisis series) stuff I seem to notice "Star Spangled Panties". Am I seeing things?

Enough with the name-calling...you seem upset??? Calm yourself.

[ImperfectIcon]

Well, as much as this is not what I would've done, this is HARDly surprising... Whedon made it VERY clear from the VERY beginning that this movie would be particularly story-driven. And while the story revolves around Wonder Woman, the story is NOT character-driven... the story defines the characters, not the other way around, in this case... in this particular style of movie-development. Good examples of story driven movies include Lord of the Rings and Phone Booth. The characters are selected and created in order to serve the story, as opposed to a story being created to serve the characters...

While selecting an origional villain is certainly not that of a huge Wonder Woman fan (and I've seen the sales, there's only two of you)... keep in mind that her rogues gallery is seVEREly limited... anyone who doesn't want to tell a tale about Sexism or decidedly female issues is SEVERELY hampered. Perhaps if you want to dwell on themes of peace vs war, you could bring in Ares, but if the direcor is not trying to make a big statement about the war in Iraq or Women in Society today, then Wonder Woman's rogue's gallery is all but useless, not to mention that many of them are inferior in raw power to the woman herself.

And the villain is a part of Greek Mythology. That means they're part of Wonder Woman's mythos already, they just haven't been featured in the comic books... assuming of course this is an established part of Greek Mythology, they're already a part of Wonder Woman's world... they've already heard of her, IN THE COMICS, even if they haven't been shown in the comics yet....

Also, no big changes have been made...

So let me understand this...if the story revolves around Wonder Woman but is not character-driven, rather story driven, why is a movie being made about Wonder Woman? You might as well almagamate this with the JLA movie project, if they have one.

[GL1]

So let me understand this...if the story revolves around Wonder Woman but is not character-driven, rather story driven, why is a movie being made about Wonder Woman? You might as well almagamate this with the JLA movie project, if they have one.

Because it's a Wonder Woman story? Because someone wanted to make Wonder Woman movie? My logic is rarely perfect, but I don't think you've actually pointed out any flaw...

[ImperfectIcon]

Because it's a Wonder Woman story? Because someone wanted to make Wonder Woman movie? My logic is rarely perfect, but I don't think you've actually pointed out any flaw...

...didn't really intend to. However making this movie a story-driven one would seem to me to suggest that the character herself is weak.

[Obi-Ron]

Well this new villain had better be damn impressive, because in the past all the "original" villains that have appeared in comic book movies have been really lame.

Indeed.

http://www.efavata.com/CBM/images/DavidBanner.jpg

http://www.chrisreevehomepage.com/images/magazines/mag4b.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/cecinid/overlord3.jpg

[The Question]

As I pour over the Geroge Perez (the first 10 issues of the 86/87 Post-Crisis series) stuff I seem to notice "Star Spangled Panties". Am I seeing things?


The only reason the panties remain is because of the nostalgia factor. Everyone thinks of Wonder Woman as wearing them. Notice how, in the Perez issues, there were some stories that completely ommited the panties in favor of a more armored look.

[ImperfectIcon]

The only reason the panties remain is because of the nostalgia factor. Everyone thinks of Wonder Woman as wearing them. Notice how, in the Perez issues, there were some stories that completely ommited the panties in favor of a more armored look.

True, however she still wears those satin tights most of the time though. I think its still a safe bet to stay with "the classic look". After all Wonder Woman is an emissary if peace isn't she? If not then they should retitle the movie to "Gladiatrix", and then you may have identity conflict with Xena with the public atlarge, and thats undesirable. Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman.

[The Question]

True, however she still wears those satin tights most of the time though. I think its still a safe bet to stay with "the classic look".

The problem is, the classic look is quite cheesy and doesn't make much sense for a greek warrior. And it's not like Whedon would be changing the costume imensly. Just using a variation of the costume that has been used many times before in the comics.

After all Wonder Woman is an emissary if peace isn't she?

A greek warrior who's an emesairy for peace. That conflict's always been what made her interesting.

If not then they should retitle the movie to "Gladiatrix", and then you may have identity conflict with Xena with the public atlarge, and thats undesirable. Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman.

Giving her an armored skirt won't turn her into Xena. She'll still be Wonder Woman and act like Wonder Woman. And really, it would look better on screen.

[ImperfectIcon]

The problem is, the classic look is quite cheesy and doesn't make much sense for a greek warrior. And it's not like Whedon would be changing the costume imensly. Just using a variation of the costume that has been used many times before in the comics.



A greek warrior who's an emesairy for peace. That conflict's always been what made her interesting.



Giving her an armored skirt won't turn her into Xena. She'll still be Wonder Woman and act like Wonder Woman. And really, it would look better on screen.

Me personally, I don't think her classic look is cheesy and it won't be a problem, but that's just my humble opinion.

If you're going to armor up the tights/skirt then you may as well armor up her top as well, as it would look to me quite ridiculous that the larger body mass called the torso is not protected.

Then you may have to consider other changes as well and before you know it, tadah...Gladiatrix!...can't be taken seriously as an emmisary for peace.

When people think of Wonder Woman, they think of the "classic look" (ie. Lynda Carter TV series or Post Crisis Perez). I do not think that just because Batman got a new look that it would work on Wonder Woman as well. You stick with the classic and you have the character that people identify very quickly. If it aint broken don't fix it!

Oh well...we'll see what we'll see...

[The Question]

Me personally, I don't think her classic look is cheesy, but that's just my humble opinion.

If you're going to armor up the tights/skirt then you may as well armor up her top as well, as it would look to me quite ridiculous that the larger body mass called the torso is not protected.

The gold bit of her costume is armor. It's been drawn as metalic for many years. And really, that plus an armored skirt is the sum of armor that greek and roman soldiers wore. They were rather scantly clad..

Then you may have to consider other changes as well and before you know it, tadah...Gladiatrix!...can't be taken seriously as an emmisary for peace.

And you can take someone in star spangled panties seriously as an emesairy of peace? The whole point of Wonder Woman is that she is a paradox. She is a warrior of peace. That contradiction is one of the main points of her character.

[ImperfectIcon]

The gold bit of her costume is armor. It's been drawn as metalic for many years. And really, that plus an armored skirt is the sum of armor that greek and roman soldiers wore. They were rather scantly clad..



And you can take someone in star spangled panties seriously as an emesairy of peace? The whole point of Wonder Woman is that she is a paradox. She is a warrior of peace. That contradiction is one of the main points of her character.

She looks less threatening and even less like a warrior, but it does not mean she can't fight. Diplomats don't wear fatigues, LBE's, ammo and rifle do they? Even high ranking generals don't wear battlegear all the time...they have other uniforms eg. ceremonial dress, normal work/office dress etc etc. The right dress and bearing for the right circumstances.

In the comics she does from time to time armor up but evidently not all the time.

[The Question]

She looks less threatening and even less like a warrior, but it does not mean she can't fight.

Never said she couldn't. Just saying, the armored skirt wouldn't be that much of a change, and she'd still look like Wonder Woman. And really, it would work better on screen.

Diplomats don't wear fatigues, LBE's, ammo and rifle do they? Even high ranking generals don't wear battlegear all the time...they have other uniforms eg. ceremonial dress, normal work/office dress etc etc. The right dress and bearing for the right circumstances.

Yeah, and Diana ususally wears red robes when she's at the U.N.

In the comics she does from time to time armor up but evidently not all the time.

But it's still a variation of her regular costume. It wouldn't be that much of a change for that to be her look on the movie.

[ImperfectIcon]

Never said she couldn't. Just saying, the armored skirt wouldn't be that much of a change, and she'd still look like Wonder Woman. And really, it would work better on screen.


I'm not convinced.

[Red Mask]

Then let's wait for them to produce the costume.

[Bishop2]

I'm having bad flashbacks to James Cameron's horrible Spider-Man treatment. Cameron's a talented guy, but that thing was abysmal and was only made worse by the use of some generic villian Cameron made up instead of one of the Rogues gallery.

This is a bad call on Whedon's part.

[ImperfectIcon]

I'm having bad flashbacks to James Cameron's horrible Spider-Man treatment. Cameron's a talented guy, but that thing was abysmal and was only made worse by the use of some generic villian Cameron made up instead of one of the Rogues gallery.

This is a bad call on Whedon's part.

We will know if/when WW hits the cinemas in 2007.

[thealiasman2000]

Knowing Whedon, the movie will suck, but all of the Internet people will say it's good nonetheless.

[Nightwing]

Knowing Whedon, the movie will suck, but all of the Internet people will say it's good nonetheless.

Serenity was a decent film, hopefully Whedon can deliver the same treatment for this one. Sure the idea of creating his own villain isn't off to a great start, but we still don't know what he/she will look like nor how it'll bring Diana's attention. Bad or not, I'm giving it a chance before I judge.

[Abaddon]

I'm having bad flashbacks to James Cameron's horrible Spider-Man treatment. Cameron's a talented guy, but that thing was abysmal and was only made worse by the use of some generic villian Cameron made up instead of one of the Rogues gallery.

This is a bad call on Whedon's part.

Cameron did use Spidey villains,he just changed their names and origins.