New Heavenly Sword Scans

[Zenien]

So how do you like your crow, WHF

http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS1.jpg
http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS2.jpg
http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS3.jpg
http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS4.jpg
http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS6.jpg




It looks exactly the same as the old E3 trailer, minus it looks like they've thinned out her hair a bit. These are some bad scans... I can't wait to see it at E3. :(

[WhatsHisFace]

It doesn't look as good as the E3 trailer. Even with scan quality taken into account, it's a much simpler image.

[Zenien]

That's bull****, and you know it. :)

http://www.ninjatheory.com/blinkblink/images/stories/tameemdiary/heroinecoverthumb.jpg

http://www.ninjatheory.com/blinkblink/images/stories/tameemdiary/edge2thumb.jpg

[Zenien]

And I believe your term was "I can't wait for E3 and Heavenly Sword to look like ****".

http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS2.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/297/928391_20051025_screen003.jpg

[WhatsHisFace]

The colors and effects were toned way down.

[Zenien]

And you're still wrong though these scan that were taken poorly and then over-saturated in photoshop, so you can start talking about effects when we see some direct feed screen/movies that actually show the effects, aside from her twirling swords in that one shot, which look exactly the same as when she had her weapon segmented at the end of the E3 trailer, chimpy. Otherwise the models etc all look the same and the lighting looks even better, and Heavenly Sword looks nothing like **** like you predicted, and nowhere near the low N3 technical level. Start eating. :)

[THWIP*]

So how do you like your crow, WHF

http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS1.jpg
http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS2.jpg
http://web.telia.com/~u48019550/HS3.jpg

It looks exactly the same as the old E3 trailer, minus it looks like they've thinned out her hair a bit. These are some bad scans... I can't wait to see it at E3. :(


IT LOOKS JUST LIKE 'N3'......THAT'S THE BEST COMPLIMENT I HAVE FOR IT. :confused::up:

[Zenien]

Have you even SEEN N3? Just answer me that. You CAN'T be so blind.

We already did the N3/HS technical and visual comparision THWIP, go back to that thread, read, realize your on crack, and please, for the love of all that's holy, do not ruin this thread by being in it.

Just go...NOW.

*hits head repeatedly*

[lars573]

Since the search function here blows could one of you provide a link to round one of this plz?

[TheCardPlayer]

Looks better then N3. Fun looking game. I love hot women kicking ass.

[Zenien]

Lars here's the original trailer, the opening shot of her face is using a WIP cutscene model, aside from that everything in the trailer is from real gameplay according to the devs.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=5842&type=mov&pl=game

I just hope it turns out as fun as it looks like it could be. I mean it certainly LOOKS very nice, but we know just about nothing when it comes to the gameplay.

"Physics based combat" how they described it like a year ago.

But that's what E3 is for:O

[lars573]

WHF is right the colour pallette is different (but that could just be crappy scans). And it does indeed look like N3.

[Zenien]

Stylistically? Graphically? They're very different in both reguards, not just in Heavenly Sword having much more technical effects. Gameplay? Heavenly Sword isn't just fighting a large army, that's only a part of the game.

The enemies are no longer blue skinned, that might be a part of the colors thing, but besides that everything looks just as good.

Honestly, N3 is practically a full technical generation behind something like Heavenly Sword in terms of effects, graphical techniques, texturing style etc. N3 looks like a PS2 game on steroids.

[lars573]

Stylistically they aren't very different. N3 and HS both appear to be Dynasty warrior derivatives. Just jumped up for next gen. Artisticly they are very different. Graphically they are about even.

[Zenien]

Well you're free to have your opinion, but graphically the difference between the two of them is very defined. When talking about effects it's even more so, N3 doesn't have a unified lighting model or any version HDR, Heavenly Sword does and it uses FP16 equivalent and superior HDR. N3 doesn't even have bumpmapping, Heavenly Sword does, as well as specular, normal, and paralax mapping. N3 doesn't have a physics model on the environment, Heavenly Sword does.

They aren't remotely even, technically speaking. I'm not saying that N3 isn't a good game, but there's distinct difference between the two. N3 is nowhere near even to Heavenly Sword.

[lars573]

You just copied and pasted that from somewhere right? Cause you through around a bunch of terms wirthout knowing what they are.

I went and found out that bump and normal are essentally different versions of the same thing. Similarly paralax and displacement mapping give the same end result.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/lars573/warhammer/789_0002.jpg
Class is now in session. Here is a screen of N3 I got from a Google image search. I only post it to show you don't know what your saying about graphics. That's fine but you need to learn.

1.You can see that the armour on her arm and her wings have an uneven textured look to them, right? That's normal or bump mapping. Probably normal as it's newer and better.
2.You can also see that the sun disk on her arm plate wings and the jewel are sticking out and dented in. That is the effect that paralax or displacement mapping are intended to give. I don't know if it's actually being used here but that is what it's desgined to do. And it would make more sense as using that means less poly's in a model and there fore a better running game with more characters in it.
3.You see the glint on her eyes and lips (focused white spots), that's spectural highlighting
4.The way the light plays on her wings and on her hair. That's HDR lighting.
5.Know what your saying before you make claims that a 5 minute search on the web can debunk.

Class dissmissed.

[lars573]

Double post *cries* :(

[WhatsHisFace]

Good post, Lars. Zenien just hates Ninety Nine Nights because everyone knows it's from a better developer.

Once Heavenly Sword isn't the only PS3 game she's looking forward to, she'll improve.

[lars573]

I stand by my claim that HS and N3 are both Dynasty warrior children. Which is actually better, well I may be good but I'm not psychic

[Phaser]

I stand by my claim that HS and N3 are both Dynasty warrior children...

Which is exactly why I don't give a rat's ass anymore about either HS or N3. Dynasty Warriors was good only for the first half-hour when it launched with the PS2, and the franchise has been going downhill ever since. So what if some Japs are crazy about it? The squinty-eyed wierdos have gaming tastes that has "WTF?!" written all over it in huge, bold letters.

[Zenien]

No I actually know what those terms mean and I know Heavenly Sword uses them because of the comments from the devs, since y'know they post regularly at forums I'm a part of.

You don't even know what HDR is, anyone can make fake lighting. OMG PS2 character have lighting on them = HDR!!!!!!!!!!

Let's go through your points one by one:

1.You can see that the armour on her arm and her wings have an uneven textured look to them, right? That's normal or bump mapping. Probably normal as it's newer and better.

At best it's a bump map, at best. There's no faked geometry on those wings, if you want an example of normal maps look at Gears of War. A bump map adds "bumps" or the illusion of indentations etc, a normal map is a high poly version of the model that has had all of the lighting data stored and been pasted on the low poly model to cheat and give the appearance of greater polygon detail on the model than the regular model.

Yet again northing besides the main character has these effect if you'd even call that a bump map (it's very iffy) Heavenly Sword does it much more freely.

As for armor ridges, those are polygons.


2.You can also see that the sun disk on her arm plate wings and the jewel are sticking out and dented in. That is the effect that paralax or displacement mapping are intended to give. I don't know if it's actually being used here but that is what it's desgined to do. And it would make more sense as using that means less poly's in a model and there fore a better running game with more characters in it.


3.You see the glint on her eyes and lips (focused white spots), that's spectural highlighting

You know that specular highlights have been done since the PS2?

4.The way the light plays on her wings and on her hair. That's HDR lighting.

HDR lighting is High Range Dynamic Lighting, the game uses none.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/689/689657/ninety-nine-nights-screens-20060217060532063.jpg

Yeah there's some real sick HDR going on there, look at that luminosity!

5.Know what your saying before you make claims that a 5 minute search on the web can debunk.

they aren't even remotely in the same class reguardless of it N3 uses a bump map and specular highlight on the main character during a cutscene.

How about you post more than the cutscene model in an attempt to make N3 look on par.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/689/689657/ninety-nine-nights-screens-20060217060521719.jpg
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/695/695437/n3-ninety-nine-nights-20060313013906785.jpg
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/695/695437/n3-ninety-nine-nights-20060313013900254.jpg

And no I don't doubt that they're uses the 360 pixle shaders for the armor of the guys etc, that's some victory.

[WhatsHisFace]

Wait, what does NNN actually look like, what Zenien's posting or what Lars is posting?

[Zenien]

Lars posted a shot from a cutscene.

[Phaser]

Wait, what does NNN actually look like, what Zenien's posting or what Lars is posting?

I'm disappointed to see you actually give a damn. :down::(

[Zenien]

He cares because he has a professed hatred for Dynasty Warriors, but N3 was being made with Phantagram as an exclusive for his console of choice, I can about Heavenly Sword because it looks visually outstanding and is more than just a Dynasty Warriors clone, the combat style makes it look fun, but we'll know for sure at E3.

[lars573]

No I actually know what those terms mean and I know Heavenly Sword uses them because of the comments from the devs, since y'know they post regularly at forums I'm a part of.

You don't even know what HDR is, anyone can make fake lighting. OMG PS2 character have lighting on them = HDR!!!!!!!!!!
HDR isn't that much of huge jump in the way things look. From what I've seen it just makes things look a little softer. I've seen the HDR normal lighting side by side from lost coast (I would have done it myself but a Geforce4=no HDR)

Let's go through your points one by one:

1.You can see that the armour on her arm and her wings have an uneven textured look to them, right? That's normal or bump mapping. Probably normal as it's newer and better.

At best it's a bump map, at best. There's no faked geometry on those wings, if you want an example of normal maps look at Gears of War. A bump map adds "bumps" or the illusion of indentations etc, a normal map is a high poly version of the model that has had all of the lighting data stored and been pasted on the low poly model to cheat and give the appearance of greater polygon detail on the model than the regular model.

Yet again northing besides the main character has these effect if you'd even call that a bump map (it's very iffy) Heavenly Sword does it much more freely.
Well it is a Dynasty warriors child. DW is the same way characters get the detailed bump/normal mapped models grunts look like crap. I came to the conclusion that they do this because the grunts are never going to be given a close up like a character will. If HS does it differently, like making all the unit model look decent, good for them.

As for armor ridges, those are polygons.
Maybe, probably. You don't know and I don't either. And besides I was using them as an example of what displacement/paralax mapping effects would look like.


You know that specular highlights have been done since the PS2?
Since Silent hill 2 IIRC. Which was the first current gen console game to make any serious use of lighting effects that I'd ever heard of. Doom3 took it higher with spectural highlights on almost surface that would be reflective.



HDR lighting is High Range Dynamic Lighting, the game uses none.
HDR isn't a switch that is either off or on. It's a light rendering engine (or process I haven't read enough to be sure, yet) and you can use some or a lot. So you can't say it doesn't use it.

Yeah there's some real sick HDR going on there, look at that luminosity!
Luminosity on an overcast foggy day. You gotta be f**king kidding me!


they aren't even remotely in the same class reguardless of it N3 uses a bump map and specular highlight on the main character during a cutscene.
You assume that cut scenes are done out of engine. Ha! Doubtful. Square-enix is the only dev these days that doesn't do 90% of the cutscenes in engine with all it's capabilities.

How about you post more than the cutscene model in an attempt to make N3 look on par.
If I had come across another shot that showed examples of what I wanted to highlight before the one I posted I'd have used it.


And no I don't doubt that they're uses the 360 pixle shaders for the armor of the guys etc, that's some victory.
Pixel shaders argh! Waste of time. Give the colours of each pixel a soft edge you can hardly tell the difference most of the time.


Wait, what does NNN actually look like, what Zenien's posting or what Lars is posting?
Appearantlty I grabbed a cutscene shot. Didn't know that then and don't care now.

[WhatsHisFace]

Yeah, nobody cares about either game. I used to, because I thought N3 would be releasing at the same time as HS and I wanted to fan flames, but it's just not worth it now. We'll probably see NNN2 vs. HS or something.

(Halo 3 vs. HS :D)

[villejo]

Actually, it will be GOW IV vs Halo 3.

[WhatsHisFace]

GoW IV will be a PS2 game, though. :(

[Phaser]

More appropriately speaking, it will be GOW vs Too Human. Halo 3 will pwn anything and everything that dares to stand up against it. Maybe MGS4 is a better challenge, but the last two times the franchises collided, Halo appeared to have the upper hand.

[WhatsHisFace]

Ninja Gaiden 2 vs. GoW will be more predictable. Ninja Gaiden will own it again, I suspect.

[villejo]

Or not.

[Phaser]

Or not.

Yes it will. I bet 50 bucks no matter how good GOW2 is, it still won't match the sheer gameplay brilliance of Ninja Gaiden Black.

[Mentok]

It looks great but I just dont like these style games that the Japanese seem to love :(

[villejo]

GOW series > DMC series > Ninga Gaiden series >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DW series

[Phaser]

GOW series > DMC series > Ninga Gaiden series >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DW series

Everyone will bear witness to a single Ninja Gaiden game wiping the floor with three DMCs and two GOWs. It has become the "Halo" of the third person action adventure genre, in that every game in the genre desperately tries to surpass it but always ends up short and consequently fails to do so.

[villejo]

Okay, but I still think GOW owns all.

[Zenien]

Everyone will bear witness to a single Ninja Gaiden game wiping the floor with three DMCs and two GOWs. It has become the "Halo" of the third person action adventure genre, in that every game in the genre desperately tries to surpass it but always ends up short and consequently fails to do so.

Not sales wise and GoW is definately going for something different then Ninja Gaiden.

[Zenien]

HDR isn't that much of huge jump in the way things look. From what I've seen it just makes things look a little softer. I've seen the HDR normal lighting side by side from lost coast (I would have done it myself but a Geforce4=no HDR)

HDR alone isn't the point, N3 has no true lighting model, just like Metal Gear Solid 3 doesn't. It's all faked to make things look like they belong in that light level, etc. The enemies in N3 don't cast shadows onto eachother, but they do cast shadows to the ground.

1.Well it is a Dynasty warriors child. DW is the same way characters get the detailed bump/normal mapped models grunts look like crap. I came to the conclusion that they do this because the grunts are never going to be given a close up like a character will. If HS does it differently, like making all the unit model look decent, good for them.

Yeah it does by a huge mile.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614802/heavenly-sword-20060117011353953.jpg
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/632/632322/heavenly-sword-20050708103750489.jpg

HDR isn't a switch that is either off or on. It's a light rendering engine (or process I haven't read enough to be sure, yet) and you can use some or a lot. So you can't say it doesn't use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_rendering

Here's so you can read up on HDR some more. Metal Gear Solid 3 has no global lighting model, has no HDR, but uses Bloom and that is NOT HDR rendering. The characters in N3 don't even have self shadowing. EVERYTHING in Heavenly Sword self shadows and uses soft shadows and casts shadows onto other objects and the game itself uses true HDR (FP16 if you're interested), Nintey Nine Nights does not.

Luminosity on an overcast foggy day. You gotta be f**king kidding me!

At best N3 might use a bloom effect, which is not HDR.

You assume that cut scenes are done out of engine. Ha! Doubtful. Square-enix is the only dev these days that doesn't do 90% of the cutscenes in engine with all it's capabilities.

No the cutscenes are blatantly in engine, that's sort of the point. Rendering in cutscenes is always higher quality than gameplay.

Pixel shaders argh! Waste of time. Give the colours of each pixel a soft edge you can hardly tell the difference most of the time.

Ok.


Appearantlty I grabbed a cutscene shot. Didn't know that then and don't care now.

It invalidates your entire arguement but aside from your misconception of HDR. Look technically speaking and visually, Heavenly Sword is really ahead. Visual it's got one of the best looks to it that I've ever seen in a video game. I don't really care if it's a omg technically very good (it is) as much as I care about it just looking good. But I'm still going to disagree with you, and as would like everyone, that Ninety Nine Nights is technically as good as Heavenly Sword, or that they "look the same".

I'd be much happier if this thread just consisted of "ooohhhh Heavenly Sword:)"

:(

[Phaser]

Not sales wise.

Only fools and desperate fanboys would play an equation as pointless as sales as being primarily relevant in an argument like this.

[Zenien]

You said it was the like a new Halo, I'm not denying that the game is very very good, I'm just saying it's not top dog sales wise, like Halo is. Yeah I know that you were talking more so about quality, but I really don't have an issue with you here. Carry on.

If you're next comment is "why say it", it was just an observation, and sales are not reflective of quality as an absolute measure or anything.

[lars573]

HDR alone isn't the point, N3 has no true lighting model, just like Metal Gear Solid 3 doesn't. It's all faked to make things look like they belong in that light level, etc. The enemies in N3 don't cast shadows onto eachother, but they do cast shadows to the ground.



Yeah it does by a huge mile.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614802/heavenly-sword-20060117011353953.jpg
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/632/632322/heavenly-sword-20050708103750489.jpg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_rendering

Here's so you can read up on HDR some more. Metal Gear Solid 3 has no global lighting model, has no HDR, but uses Bloom and that is NOT HDR rendering. The characters in N3 don't even have self shadowing. EVERYTHING in Heavenly Sword self shadows and uses soft shadows and casts shadows onto other objects and the game itself uses true HDR (FP16 if you're interested), Nintey Nine Nights does not.



At best N3 might use a bloom effect, which is not HDR.
Meh.



No the cutscenes are blatantly in engine, that's sort of the point. Rendering in cutscenes is always higher quality than gameplay.
Rendering cutscenes is called cheating your audience. It's part of the looong list of things I hate about Square-enix games.


Ok.
Find a side by side screen of a 3D object with and without pixel shader. The difference is not that big. Pixel shaded models look marginally more rounded.




It invalidates your entire arguement but aside from your misconception of HDR. Look technically speaking and visually, Heavenly Sword is really ahead. Visual it's got one of the best looks to it that I've ever seen in a video game. I don't really care if it's a omg technically very good (it is) as much as I care about it just looking good. But I'm still going to disagree with you, and as would like everyone, that Ninety Nine Nights is technically as good as Heavenly Sword, or that they "look the same".
They do look the same. The only thing that HS has on N3 is a lighting engine, and good texture mapping for all characters.

I'd be much happier if this thread just consisted of "ooohhhh Heavenly Sword:)"

:(
You'll have to put up with the N3 comparisons.

[Zenien]

So basically you've got nothing. :o And if the only things that Heavenly Sword has over N3 is good lighting and texturing for all the characters , that still puts it over, and Heavenly Sword still looks better by a mile.

You're like the classic case of somehone who has no valid arguement but still doesn't want to concede defeat. So go back you your opinion that they look even, even though most people disagree with you. :o

[lars573]

Art direction is the only area that there is any great difference. N3 doesn't have the crappy big-head big-eye anime thing going on. Once you go past style everything else graphical is padding. They are very similar games in terms of over all looks (fancy HDR lighting aside).

[Zenien]

You're free to believe that. :o Even though it's wrong.

[WhatsHisFace]

Zenien, stop being such an overzealous lesbian.

[Zenien]

Careful, WHF, gay bashing is an insta-ban!

And there are a lot more PS3 games then just HS that I'm looking forward to thank you very much.

[lars573]

Zenien, stop being such an overzealous lesbian.
She's just mad cause Krazy Ken won't return her love letters.

You're free to believe that. :o
They very similar. The only real question is which one plays better.

[WhatsHisFace]

Careful, WHF, gay bashing is an insta-ban!

And there are a lot more PS3 games then just HS that I'm looking forward to thank you very much.
Mentioning someone's a lesbian (especially when they're readily open about it) isn't a bash. It's an acknowledgement. And if anyone's sexuality has been bashed here, it's mine, so back off.

[Zenien]

You used Lesbian in a blatantly negative context, that = Gay bashing. Saying WHF is gay isn't the same thing because there's no negative connotation behind it.