A defensive approach to X-Men 3 (SPOILERS)

[Matt]

I was watching the trailer today, while seeing MI:3, and I must admit...I was blown away as I watched Magneto lead his army up against the X-men. It looked fantastic. When Wolverine was telling Iceman about war, and the chance of them not coming back, I felt blown away by the sense of urgency.

Lately a lot of people have been complaining that the movie is too short to develop characters and the plot will be lacking with all of the action sequences...and I am going to say.......So what?

We have had two movies that took character development to the extreme. We never got to see a full out mutant war. We got to see Wolverine kicking someone's ass. I am beginning to look at X3 as the climax to a one part story. X1 and X2 built up the characters well enough, that I do not need character development in X3 to care about them. I already do become of its predecessors. This is the final chapter of a three part story...and it is going to be the climax. There will be action...there will be death...there will be less plot...but basic story telling usually does have the third act focus less on plot and more on the payoff. That is exactly what X3 will give us...a payoff from what was developed in the first two. I personally can't wait.

[Spider-Man™]

Well said, i can't wait either.

[Sunstar]

Where are the spoilers?lol:p

[Aiden]

I know, I posted this in the Family Ties thread, the more I've thought about the runtime, the more I've thought 'Who cares?'

I still think this will be the best of the bunch

[tonytr1687]

I was watching the trailer today, while seeing MI:3, and I must admit...I was blown away as I watched Magneto lead his army up against the X-men. It looked fantastic. When Wolverine was telling Iceman about war, and the chance of them not coming back, I felt blown away by the sense of urgency.

Lately a lot of people have been complaining that the movie is too short to develop characters and the plot will be lacking with all of the action sequences...and I am going to say.......So what?

We have had two movies that took character development to the extreme. We never got to see a full out mutant war. We got to see Wolverine kicking someone's ass. I am beginning to look at X3 as the climax to a one part story. X1 and X2 built up the characters well enough, that I do not need character development in X3 to care about them. I already do become of its predecessors. This is the final chapter of a three part story...and it is going to be the climax. There will be action...there will be death...there will be less plot...but basic story telling usually does have the third act focus less on plot and more on the payoff. That is exactly what X3 will give us...a payoff from what was developed in the first two. I personally can't wait.

The problem is Storm and Cyclops are still underdeveloped. Iceman and Pyro still need a little more. And then there's four major new characters that need quality time to develop: Beast, Angel, Kitty, Juggernaut. Not to mention they gotta tell us at least something about Callisto and Multiple Man and Leech, and then theres all the human characters like Angel's father, Dr. Rao, and Moira who we know are more than cameos.

[Iceman]

I was watching the trailer today, while seeing MI:3, and I must admit...I was blown away as I watched Magneto lead his army up against the X-men. It looked fantastic. When Wolverine was telling Iceman about war, and the chance of them not coming back, I felt blown away by the sense of urgency.

Lately a lot of people have been complaining that the movie is too short to develop characters and the plot will be lacking with all of the action sequences...and I am going to say.......So what?

We have had two movies that took character development to the extreme. We never got to see a full out mutant war. We got to see Wolverine kicking someone's ass. I am beginning to look at X3 as the climax to a one part story. X1 and X2 built up the characters well enough, that I do not need character development in X3 to care about them. I already do become of its predecessors. This is the final chapter of a three part story...and it is going to be the climax. There will be action...there will be death...there will be less plot...but basic story telling usually does have the third act focus less on plot and more on the payoff. That is exactly what X3 will give us...a payoff from what was developed in the first two. I personally can't wait.

I agree with some of that although new characters will still need development. X3 is definitely a payoff film and it can be great whatever the runtime. However, as fans, most people here want as much as possible of a good thing.

[ShakiraRocks]

Wait, We Have A Running Time Confirmed????????????

[Aiden]

Pretty much

[ShakiraRocks]

WHERE? I CAN'T FIND IT ON THE BOARDS ANYWHERE?? Can you link me and tell me how long purrty please??

[Mic]

I kid you not!

[Matt]

I agree with some of that although new characters will still need development. X3 is definitely a payoff film and it can be great whatever the runtime. However, as fans, most people here want as much as possible of a good thing.

Many of the new characters (Mutlipleman, Leech, Callisto) are just random soldiers. Their job is to have powers, and fight. The great thing about X-men is you don't have to explain powers. Every character has the same origin story in regard to their powers. They are mutants. Do you need a back story of a soldier dying on the beach in Saving Private Ryan? Of course not. We as fans take offense to this...but the fact is, the known movie members of the brotherhood vs the known movie members of the x-men wouldn't make a very good climax for the series. They needed fillers. People like Multipleman, Leech, Callisto are pretty much glorified cameos. Even Juggernaught to an extent. He is there to be Magneto's muscle. Thats about it...just as Collossus is ther to be the muscle of the X-men.

As for Cyclops and Storm being underdeveloped....well...Storm seems to be getting more time in this one...and Cyclops...well...that was Singer's mistake...and its just too late to clean up that mess. Just gotta cut your losses and accept reality.

[Maze]

I was watching the trailer today, while seeing MI:3, and I must admit...I was blown away as I watched Magneto lead his army up against the X-men. It looked fantastic. When Wolverine was telling Iceman about war, and the chance of them not coming back, I felt blown away by the sense of urgency.

Lately a lot of people have been complaining that the movie is too short to develop characters and the plot will be lacking with all of the action sequences...and I am going to say.......So what?

We have had two movies that took character development to the extreme. We never got to see a full out mutant war. We got to see Wolverine kicking someone's ass. I am beginning to look at X3 as the climax to a one part story. X1 and X2 built up the characters well enough, that I do not need character development in X3 to care about them. I already do become of its predecessors. This is the final chapter of a three part story...and it is going to be the climax. There will be action...there will be death...there will be less plot...but basic story telling usually does have the third act focus less on plot and more on the payoff. That is exactly what X3 will give us...a payoff from what was developed in the first two. I personally can't wait.

i don't agree... some characters well well develloped..but to the extreme? i could say that of Magnolia, of Once upon a time in America , but not X1 or X2...

Even more you say that we don't need character devellopement to care about them..fair enough..but what about not devoting enough time to the issue that they are facing? ( Kinberg and Penn have said that they will gave almost everybody a point of view about the cure..you need time for that)
If there was not a new MAJOR plot point ( the cure)and instead something more random like magneto striking with bombing a la Ultimate Xmen , i would had nothing against the payoff that you are talking about..

what about not giving enough time to how now they live with the idea that one of them is dead, that Scott is not the guy that he was?

what about the same people reacting to the return of same Jean Grey from the dead and her becoming evil?

What about her inner conflict , her transformation?

What about new character like Angel , Beast and some others ( discounting the like of Juggernaut , and callisto)

and those are just examples among others..

sure you can make all that work in a short amount of time ..but with depht?with room for the story to breath ,for the character to live and hence build to a great and intense climax?

i don't think so .. or Kinberg and Penn and Ratner are going to make movie history..

One has to look at movie history to be sure about that..

[ShakiraRocks]

anyone tell me please?

[WorthyStevens]

As for Cyclops and Storm being underdeveloped....well...Storm seems to be getting more time in this one...and Cyclops...well...that was Singer's mistake...and its just too late to clean up that mess. Just gotta cut your losses and accept reality.

:(.

[Matt]

i don't agree... some characters well well develloped..but to the extreme? i could say that of Magnolia, of Once upon a time in America , but not X1 or X2...

Even more you say that we don't need character devellopement to care about them..fair enough..but what about not devoting enough time to the issue that they are facing? ( Kinberg and Penn have said that they will gave almost everybody a point of view about the cure..you need time for that)
If there was not a new MAJOR plot point ( the cure)and instead something more random like magneto striking with bombing a la Ultimate Xmen , i would had nothing against the payoff that you are talking about..

what about not giving enough time to how now they live with the idea that one of them is dead, that Scott is not the guy that he was?

what about the same people reacting to the return of same Jean Grey from the dead and her becoming evil?

What about her inner conflict , her transformation?

What about new character like Angel , Beast and some others ( discounting the like of Juggernaut , and callisto)

and those are just examples among others..

sure you can make all that work in a short amount of time ..but with depht?with room for the story to breath ,for the character to live and hence build to a great and intense climax?

i don't think so .. or Kinberg and Penn and Ratner are going to make movie history..

One has to look at movie history to be sure about that..

I'm sure there will be depth, but like I said, the last two movies focused on depth a bit too much. New characters are pretty much there as fillers. It was a necessary evil if you are going to do a war between the X-men and Magneto. Jeans innerstruggle was shown quite a bit in the preview alone, I'm sure the movie will show it. There seems to be depth...but you also have to understand, its the climax.

[Maze]

ps:

About cyclops

No that was not Singer mistake.

Singer had to cut a lot because of Fox rushing his movies..because a lot of his scenes were incomplete , and a lot doesn't made any sense..

Storm is another matter..but,without any proof to back it, i admit, i hear that he didn't wan't Halle Berry in the title role at first..

Now even ,if the early Solomon draft Storm was one of the few characters, imo, who was not really interesting ,in not having any arc, she would have without doubt gained to be played by somebody with more presence..(and i like Halle Berry ..she just not have" it" imo ..but we never know , maybe that is going to change there..)

[Matt]

Where are the spoilers?lol:p

Well, I originally intended to talk about people *****ing about cyclops dying but I got lazy :(

[Maze]

I'm sure there will be depth, but like I said, the last two movies focused on depth a bit too much. New characters are pretty much there as fillers. It was a necessary evil if you are going to do a war between the X-men and Magneto. Jeans innerstruggle was shown quite a bit in the preview alone, I'm sure the movie will show it. There seems to be depth...but you also have to understand, its the climax.
i understand it's the climax , but i stand on all my points, sorry.

[Matt]

ps:

About cyclops

No that was not Singer mistake.

Singer had to cut a lot because of Fox rushing his movies..because a lot of his scenes were incomplete , and a lot doesn't made any sense..

Storm is another matter..but,without any proof to back it, i admit, i hear that he didn't wan't Halle Berry in the title role at first..

Now even if the early Solomon draft Storm was one of the few characters imo who was not really interesting ,in not having any arc, she would have without doubt gained to be played by somebody with more presence..(and i like Halle Berry ..she just not have" it" imo ..but we never know , maybe that is going to change there..)

It was Singer's fault. Even having to cut a lot...he still made the final call to marginalize the hell out of Cyke. Look at X1...can you really see more of a role for him? Look at X2...he keeps him locked in a cell the whole movie. I get that Fox rushed things...but the fact is, there was never really a place for him anyway. Singer decided to make it the Wolverine movie and brush Cyclops off.

[tonytr1687]

ps:

About cyclops

No that was not Singer mistake.

Singer had to cut a lot because of Fox rushing his movies..because a lot of his scenes were incomplete , and a lot doesn't made any sense..

Storm is another matter..but,without any proof to back it, i admit, i hear that he didn't wan't Halle Berry in the title role at first..

Now even if the early Solomon draft Storm was one of the few characters imo who was not really interesting ,in not having any arc, she would have without doubt gained to be played by somebody with more presence..(and i like Halle Berry ..she just not have" it" imo ..but we never know , maybe that is going to change there..)

Plus its pretty obvious Singer was saving Cyclops' due for X3. Thats why he hired Jimmy for SR, to make up for the fact that he wasnt going to be able to give him his bigger part in X3 since he was now working on Supes.

[Matt]

i understand it's the climax , but i stand on all my point, sorry.

Good for you, being as I know how basic story telling principles work, I'll enjoy the movie. You won't. Sorry :(

[Iceman]

Many of the new characters (Mutlipleman, Leech, Callisto) are just random soldiers. Their job is to have powers, and fight. The great thing about X-men is you don't have to explain powers. Every character has the same origin story in regard to their powers. They are mutants. Do you need a back story of a soldier dying on the beach in Saving Private Ryan? Of course not. We as fans take offense to this...but the fact is, the known movie members of the brotherhood vs the known movie members of the x-men wouldn't make a very good climax for the series. They needed fillers. People like Multipleman, Leech, Callisto are pretty much glorified cameos. Even Juggernaught to an extent. He is there to be Magneto's muscle. Thats about it...just as Collossus is ther to be the muscle of the X-men.

As for Cyclops and Storm being underdeveloped....well...Storm seems to be getting more time in this one...and Cyclops...well...that was Singer's mistake...and its just too late to clean up that mess. Just gotta cut your losses and accept reality.

I agree in that I don't want time wasted on background for most of the brotherhood members (even Juggernaut - this isn't the time for it). Beast, Angel, Kitty and even Colosssus are, however, important new characters that we need to get to know fully. Cyke also needs a few poignant scenes before he dies if his death is to strike a chord whether or not he has been underdeveloped in the previous films.

[pt_photo_inc]

Where are the spoilers?lol:p

took the words out of my mouth!

[tonytr1687]

Good for you, being as I know how basic story telling principles work, I'll enjoy the movie. You won't. Sorry :(

Nice way to be condescending...

[Maze]

It was Singer's fault. Even having to cut a lot...he still made the final call to marginalize the hell out of Cyke. Look at X1...can you really see more of a role for him? Look at X2...he keeps him locked in a cell the whole movie. I get that Fox rushed things...but the fact is, there was never really a place for him anyway. Singer decided to make it the Wolverine movie and brush Cyclops off.
well , one have to have just one look at the cut scenes..or even more the earlier draft (that were written under Singer )..

cyclops was one of the major characters, and that made a lot of sense..

there was a place for him..

[Maze]

Good for you, being as I know how basic story telling principles work, I'll enjoy the movie. You won't. Sorry :(
well you can be condescending all you wan't Matt , i happen to know one or two things about movie making , and sorry neither Kinberg , Penn or you convince me..

i hope to be surprised May 24th by the movie you just know ;) will be good ..i really am.

[Matt]

I agree in that I don't want time wasted on background for most of the brotherhood members (even Juggernaut - this isn't the time for it). Beast, Angel, Kitty and even Colosssus are, however, important new characters that we need to get to know fully. Cyke also needs a few poignant scenes before he dies if his death is to strike a chord whether or not he has been underdeveloped in the previous films.

Kitty and Collossus are easy...students. Beast, a former student it seems as he is at Jeans funeral. As for Angel...it looks like they are going to give him an original and development.

The fact is, the Xavier camp needs soldiers as well as the brotherhood, and that is where Kitty, Colossus, Beast, etc come into play.

[Matt]

well you can be condescending all you wan't Matt , i happen to know one or two things about movie making , and sorry neither Kinberg , Penn or you convince me..

i hope to be surprised May 24th by the movie you just know ;) will be good ..i really am.

I didn't say I know it will be good. I said they are taking the logical next step in story telling.

[Maze]

I didn't say I know it will be good. I said they are taking the logical next step in story telling.
Yup , but you also said Good for you, being as I know how basic story telling principles work, I'll enjoy the movie. You won't. Sorry ;)

[tonytr1687]

well you can be condescending all you wan't Matt , i happen to know one or two things about movie making , and sorry neither Kinberg , Penn or you convince me..

i hope to be surprised May 24th..i really am.

Especially since Kinberg's works include XXX2, Fantastic Four, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith. The last one was entertaining but nothing more...and X3 should be a lot lot more. And Penn's credits include such "masterpieces" as Inspector Gadget, Suspect Zero, and Elektra. She he worked on the story for X2 but that really doesnt mean a whole lot, especially when Singer and David Hayter also get story credit.

[tonytr1687]

Kitty and Collossus are easy...students. Beast, a former student it seems as he is at Jeans funeral. As for Angel...it looks like they are going to give him an original and development.

The fact is, the Xavier camp needs soldiers as well as the brotherhood, and that is where Kitty, Colossus, Beast, etc come into play.

You're telling me Beast doesnt need to be developed that much? I'm glad you're not a filmmaker...characters are just as important as the story, and they should never be there just for the sake of serving it unless they're small parts like Arclight or Quills.

[Matt]

Yup , but you also said ;)

Well with all respect, it does seem as though your mind is very much so made up.

[Matt]

You're telling me Beast doesnt need to be developed that much? I'm glad you're not a filmmaker...characters are just as important as the story, and they should never be there just for the sake of serving it unless they're small parts like Arclight or Quills.

Ok, every soldier who died in Saving Private Ryan should've had a complete backstory. Like I said, as fans we are more sensetive...from a film making and story telling perspective...you need to have mutants to serve as nothing more than glorified cameos.

[Iceman]

Kitty and Collossus are easy...students. Beast, a former student it seems as he is at Jeans funeral. As for Angel...it looks like they are going to give him an original and development.

The fact is, the Xavier camp needs soldiers as well as the brotherhood, and that is where Kitty, Colossus, Beast, etc come into play.

:up: Only Angel's background should take up much screentime but it's serving the plot so is time well used.

The difference I see with the X-Men 'soldiers' is that each of them are the favourite characters of many fans. I'll be happy as long as they all get enough quality time without using their powers for the audience to have empathy with them. This isn't as important for most of the brotherhood henchmen.

[Maze]

Especially since Kinberg's works include XXX2, Fantastic Four, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith. The last one was entertaining but nothing more...and X3 should be a lot lot more. And Penn's credits include such "masterpieces" as Inspector Gadget, Suspect Zero, and Elektra. She he worked on the story for X2 but that really doesnt mean a whole lot, especially when Singer and David Hayter also get story credit.
That too..

so to keep an open mind? sure..After all John Woo made a lot of bad movie before doing A Better Tomorow and The killer , but try to convince people that there are nothing to worry there is pushing it..

[Maze]

Well with all respect, it does seem as though your mind is very much so made up.
with all respect , i'm not the one who have written the above quote.

[Maze]

Ok, every soldier who died in Saving Private Ryan should've had a complete backstory. Like I said, as fans we are more sensetive...from a film making and story telling perspective...you need to have mutants to serve as nothing more than glorified cameos.


Again, no need to have complete backstory..

but a build up..

ps:Saving Private Ryan:170 min .

[tonytr1687]

Ok, every soldier who died in Saving Private Ryan should've had a complete backstory. Like I said, as fans we are more sensetive...from a film making and story telling perspective...you need to have mutants to serve as nothing more than glorified cameos.

Thats different. Thats a war movie. Kitty and Beast should not be mere soldiers as you put it. Colossus and the Brotherhood, okay...but the others? No

[Matt]

Thats different. Thats a war movie. Kitty and Beast should not be mere soldiers as you put it. Colossus and the Brotherhood, okay...but the others? No

Again, you empathize with them as you have read their exploits for thirty years. The casual movie goer does not need to empathize with them. Wolverine's line is pretty much all the development they need, about them making the choice and not knowing if they will come back. It established to the viewers that these are children being thrown in the middle of a war...thats all the casual viewer will need to empathize..

[tonytr1687]

Again, you empathize with them as you have read their exploits for thirty years. The casual movie goer does not need to empathize with them. Wolverine's line is pretty much all the development they need, about them making the choice and not knowing if they will come back. It established to the viewers that these are children being thrown in the middle of a war...thats all the casual viewer will need to empathize..

You're making the casual moviegoer sound stupid...you dont give them enough credit. They're wising up to ****ty movies nowadays and they expect more if they're gonna empathize with a character. And actually I dont read the comics. I've just studied them and now know everything about them and the characters. I'm speaking from the standpoint of a film buff who expects writers and directors to develop their characters if we're supposed to care about them when they go into battle. Merely showing me their powers and a two-dimensional personality isnt enough.

[Matt]

You're making the casual moviegoer sound stupid...you dont give them enough credit. They're wising up to ****ty movies nowadays and they expect more if they're gonna empathize with a character. And actually I dont read the comics. I've just studied them and now know everything about them and the characters. I'm speaking from the standpoint of a film buff who expects writers and directors to develop their characters if we're supposed to care about them when they go into battle. Merely showing me their powers and a two-dimensional personality isnt enough.

But it would be ok if they were a soldier with a gun and no personality?

[tonytr1687]

But it would be ok if they were a soldier with a gun and no personality?

Those ppl in Private Ryan that you're talking about are extras and background characters. The core group that we end up following in the movie, all of those guys were pretty well-developed. Kitty and Colossus and Beast are part of the core group in X3, so they should be given the same treatment.

[Matt]

Those ppl in Private Ryan that you're talking about are extras and background characters. The core group that we end up following in the movie, all of those guys were pretty well-developed. Kitty and Colossus and Beast are part of the core group in X3, so they should be given the same treatment.

No they aren't. They are the equivilant to a character in a horror movie who is there to bring up the body count. They are MINOR supporting characters. Their job is not to be developed. It is to be there to fight or die.

[Karea07]

nicely said Matt :up:

[Maze]

No they aren't. They are the equivilant to a character in a horror movie who is there to bring up the body count. They are MINOR supporting characters. Their job is not to be developed. It is to be there to fight or die.
Yup , you're right,in a Jason movie one have a lot of characters that one don't care about who die..


.

[tonytr1687]

No they aren't. They are the equivilant to a character in a horror movie who is there to bring up the body count. They are MINOR supporting characters. Their job is not to be developed. It is to be there to fight or die.

Wow you're unbelievable. You're saying Kitty and Beast should just be there to fight and die? Well from the trailers and posters they sure do show up a lot for characters who are just there to "fight and die." They gotta set up Beast's job in the White House, his relationship to Xavier and the school, his conflicted view on the cure. Then Kitty has her relationships with Bobby and Rogue, and its obvious she's gonna have at least one poignant scene with Xavier since the film makes a point of having Storm comfort her later on in another scene.

[tonytr1687]

Yup , you're right,in a Jason movie one have a lot of characters that one don't care about who die..


.

This isnt a ****ing horror movie. It's a scifi action drama and we should expect characters like Kitty and Beast to be more than war fodder.

[Matt]

Wow you're unbelievable. You're saying Kitty and Beast should just be there to fight and die? Well from the trailers and posters they sure do show up a lot for characters who are just there to "fight and die." They gotta set up Beast's job in the White House, his relationship to Xavier and the school, his conflicted view on the cure. Then Kitty has her relationships with Bobby and Rogue, and its obvious she's gonna have at least one poignant scene with Xavier since the film makes a point of having Storm comfort her later on in another scene.

Kitty - Rogue and Bobby's friend...that really takes about 50 minutes to establish :rolleyes:

Same with Beast, everything you said about him can be done in two or three lines.

It doesn't matter who they are in the comics. That is our flaw as comic fans, we cannot look past it. What matters is what purpose they serve in the film.

[Maze]

Good horror sci fi movie with a lot of minor characters (with one major one developed in an early movie )

Aliens Runtime: 137 min / USA:154 min (director's cut)

( and a movie with not as much subplots and "philosophy"as X3)

[Maze]

This isnt a ****ing horror movie. It's a scifi action drama and we should expect characters like Kitty and Beast to be more than war fodder.
Ah it's matt reasoning..What can one do ? lol ;)

[tonytr1687]

Kitty - Rogue and Bobby's friend...that really takes about 50 minutes to establish :rolleyes:

Same with Beast, everything you said about him can be done in two or three lines.

It doesn't matter who they are in the comics. That is our flaw as comic fans, we cannot look past it. What matters is what purpose they serve in the film.

The development of a character like Beast should never be TOLD in just a few lines. You have to show it. Otherwise it feels forced. I somewhat agree with you about Kitty...but certain things have to be established so that she doesnt look like a whore when trying to get with Bobby when she knows he's with Rogue. The writers have already said that her character gets a lot of screen time. So your soldier argument doesnt hold much weight with her.

[Maze]

Kitty - Rogue and Bobby's friend...that really takes about 50 minutes to establish :rolleyes:

Same with Beast, everything you said about him can be done in two or three lines.

It doesn't matter who they are in the comics. That is our flaw as comic fans, we cannot look past it. What matters is what purpose they serve in the film.
Did you read what he said to you?

he is first a film buff..Not a comics fan.As i am.

[tonytr1687]

Good horror sci fi movie with a lot of minor characters (with one major one developed in an early movie )

Aliens Runtime: 137 min / USA:154 min (director's cut)

( and a movie with not as much but not as much subplots and "philosophy"as X3)

Good points. But Hicks, the little girl, and the android guy werent minor characters.

[Maze]

Good points. But Hicks, the little girl, and the android guy werent minor characters.
Yup, so that makes X3 possible running time even more absurd lol

[XCharlieX]

This is the final chapter of a three part story...and it is going to be the climax. There will be action...there will be death...there will be less plot...but basic story telling usually does have the third act focus less on plot and more on the payoff. That is exactly what X3 will give us...a payoff from what was developed in the first two.
I see what road this movie could go down ;) Congrats, someone just carbon copied t3 forums "who needs story?" argument again word for word. :down

Ive seen it all before and it holds less than no weight to me. No offense Matt.

There are 2 types of action fans at odds here:

1)Sit down, dont complain, watch the action movie. More likely to say: "enough blah blah. Over 2 hrs is pretentious and boring"

2)expect scifi to be held to no different standards story wise than other genres. More likely to say: "peoples attention spans are getting shorter by the day".

Personally i think the first leans toward a horror mindset more, and the 2nd leans toward the classic meaning of good film. Kinda like the difference between satanic heavy metal and people who think thats not music ;)

[Pyroschik]

So the X3 trailer IS w/MI3? I heard rumors that Fox had taken it out. If it is, then I CANT WAIT 2 C IT!! ;)

[Wolvieboy17]

I wish people would stop comparing the movies to the comics, because they are quite different! I am an avid fan of the comics, but i only got into them after i saw the x-men movie. This movie is not being made simply to please the comic fans... If anything, the fans are the ones complaining about it!

When thinking in terms of movies, the closer to the comics in dialogue and action this movie is, the more likely it is going to flop. That is what made the other two movies great. I know we all like it, because we are all fans of x-men, but do you realise how many people are dying to see this movie but know nothing about x-men? I really really wish i was one of them...

The X-Men movie verse is unique and fantastic.... i wish people would stop saying things like "Where's gambit? Cyclops cant die! Sentinels s hould be everywhere! Lets have x4 with apocalypse". That is not how Brett Ratner wants to do the movies. Brett isnt trying to fit as much x-men lore in as possible, he is trying to finish telling a great story. Just think how real the movies have been so far... The first one was about the conflict between mag's and x's opposing views. The second one was humanity freaking out and lashing out (via stryker) and this one is all the conflicts coming to a head. The human conflict is present with the cure and the mutant conflict is there with the brotherhood.

There is no way at all that this movie will be cheap thrills. If we have gathered anything from this movie via info from ratner, its that this movie has more depth and is more emotional than the others! And obviously the presence of mutants like juggernaut, multiple man, beast and angel mean there will be lots of action too...

It will not be that hard to establish these new characters, and they are not just cameo's.

The whole plot revolves around leech, which would be a bit more than a cameo. Collosus in X2 was a cameo, but in a movie centering around a war i think a soldier is more than a cameo... Multiple man, arclight, quill, juggy, dark phoenix and callisto are the brotherhood mutants who are highlighted, so they are presumably more than a cameo. The hundered or so other random brotherhoods are the cameos in this.

This movie will be good, you can already tell. But like anything, if you spend weeks and months overanalysing it b4 you even see it, your setting yourself up for disappointment. I wish i could erase everything i knew about this movie so i could just sit back and be nicely surprised by everything and enjoy a similar experience to when i first viewed x-men in 2000. That would be bliss.
:xmen: :wolverine :xmen: :wolverine :xmen: :wolverine

[XCharlieX]

There is no way at all that this movie will be cheap thrills. If we have gathered anything from this movie via info from ratner, its that this movie has more depth and is more emotional than the others!

Intent and execution are 2 different things. The movie may end up suggesting rather than showing. Happens endlessly and what do they always say? the movie is emotional. This tends to sprout up with crew who try to have their cake and eat it too.

[martinbluther]

I hear you on the development thing. It's late here, so forgive my misspeaks...

Logan has been developed (the ONLY character for whom his codename is not spoken in sarcasm most of the time), mostly. As far as the other characters, an in-depth characterization has only been done on:

magneto: background, motivation, conflicts
Rogue: ditto

Nightcrawler's actor stole some scenes and gave us background, but he was taken off-stage...

That's fine if there are only three characters to talk about.


These movies should be called Wolverine and his impotent(violence-wise) friends.

And I guess I should just say that in no way do I find Wolverine the most compelling X-Man in the way that he has been told, even. He's simply the most violent and the least constrained.

The core of these stories have been X and Mags, but even they seem to take a back seat to the guy with the most shearing potential.


Sorry. I'm ecstatic with the first film, less so with X2, and X3 as we have heard about it make me sad.


But I hope I'm wrong. I hope the people at Fox went beyond "When Mutants Attack" when planning this film. They just haven't provided much precedent...

[tonytr1687]

I'd say Wolverine, Jean, Xavier, Magneto, Nightcrawler, Rogue, and Iceman are the ones who have been well-developed.

[BMM]

So the X3 trailer IS w/MI3? I heard rumors that Fox had taken it out. If it is, then I CANT WAIT 2 C IT!! ;)

The old X3 trailer is featured with M:I 3 . . . The reported newer one is not--FOX bailed on the second one thus far, which is why we may have had a number of recent tv spots.

I wish people would stop comparing the movies to the comics, because they are quite different! I am an avid fan of the comics, but i only got into them after i saw the x-men movie. This movie is not being made simply to please the comic fans... If anything, the fans are the ones complaining about it!

When thinking in terms of movies, the closer to the comics in dialogue and action this movie is, the more likely it is going to flop. That is what made the other two movies great. I know we all like it, because we are all fans of x-men, but do you realise how many people are dying to see this movie but know nothing about x-men? I really really wish i was one of them...

The X-Men movie verse is unique and fantastic.... i wish people would stop saying things like "Where's gambit? Cyclops cant die! Sentinels s hould be everywhere! Lets have x4 with apocalypse". That is not how Brett Ratner wants to do the movies. Brett isnt trying to fit as much x-men lore in as possible, he is trying to finish telling a great story. Just think how real the movies have been so far... The first one was about the conflict between mag's and x's opposing views. The second one was humanity freaking out and lashing out (via stryker) and this one is all the conflicts coming to a head. The human conflict is present with the cure and the mutant conflict is there with the brotherhood.

There is no way at all that this movie will be cheap thrills. If we have gathered anything from this movie via info from ratner, its that this movie has more depth and is more emotional than the others! And obviously the presence of mutants like juggernaut, multiple man, beast and angel mean there will be lots of action too...

It will not be that hard to establish these new characters, and they are not just cameo's.

The whole plot revolves around leech, which would be a bit more than a cameo. Collosus in X2 was a cameo, but in a movie centering around a war i think a soldier is more than a cameo... Multiple man, arclight, quill, juggy, dark phoenix and callisto are the brotherhood mutants who are highlighted, so they are presumably more than a cameo. The hundered or so other random brotherhoods are the cameos in this.

This movie will be good, you can already tell. But like anything, if you spend weeks and months overanalysing it b4 you even see it, your setting yourself up for disappointment. I wish i could erase everything i knew about this movie so i could just sit back and be nicely surprised by everything and enjoy a similar experience to when i first viewed x-men in 2000. That would be bliss.
:xmen: :wolverine :xmen: :wolverine :xmen: :wolverine

Overall, I disagree with the notion that the movies are vastly different from the comics, or that they need to be in order to be good. Actually, the other two films stayed very faithful to their comic book counterparts, with a few noticeable differences. Hell, X2 is straight from an X-Men graphic novel. In actuallity, I think X3 will deviate the most from the source material relative to the other films . . . which is probably why most fans are currently upset given the storylines their choosing to portray this go around--The Dark Phoenix Saga is one of the most (if not the most) favored X-Men storyline to date, and doesn't need to be altered (aside from the aliens) in order to make the movie good . . . the same can be said for a number of other things within X3, which may be why some fans are complaining. Some of the things that have been changed don't need to be in order to make the movie any more, or less, effective.

[XCharlieX]

double post.

[XCharlieX]

what about not giving enough time to how now they live with the idea that one of them is dead, that Scott is not the guy that he was?

what about the same people reacting to the return of same Jean Grey from the dead and her becoming evil?

What about her inner conflict , her transformation?

What about new character like Angel , Beast and some others ( discounting the like of Juggernaut , and callisto)

and those are just examples among others..

If this pacing is out of whack they may end up summing this good story potential in a handful of dialogue scenes and thats it. I fear the bare minimum.

[Pyroschik]

Aww! Why did Fox take out the new trailer? That stinx!!! Oh well, looks like I wont b seeing MI3 nemore, b/c that was the only reason why I wanted 2 c it. I kno its a stupid reason, but w/e.