Official X-MEN: LEGACY Discussion Thread

[Harlekin]

I seriously doubt the woman in white being Emma Frost. Probably a new Marauder.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

I always thought Karima was a PRIME sentinel..not Omega...unless they retconned Prime Sentinels into Omega sentinels
Quoting herself, she is "an Omega Prime". Omega Sentinels are a prototype of Prime Sentiles, ones with electromagnetic powers.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Karima gets taken over by Malice according to an online interview Carey gave.

Actually, I think he was referring to the Sentinel thingy rather than Malice. :cwink:

And yeah, I do believe it's Emma. Considering how this arc happens before Torn it'll probably either be her being possessed or playing double agent.

Later would be sweet because it would imply Cyke and Emma do *actual planning* once every year or so, but, hum... yeah, I'm still not quite convinced they're meant to look good in this book. Oh well.

[Havok83]

Karima gets taken over by Malice according to an online interview Carey gave.
dont forget the spoiler tags

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

dont forget the spoiler tags

Carey didn't actually...

And I still think the answer is in her actual NAME rather than the Malice thingy.

[anyjus]

What do you mean by that?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Omega SENTINEL.

As in her sentinel programming kicking in.

[Havok83]

Carey didn't actually...

And I still think the answer is in her actual NAME rather than the Malice thingy.
but some of us like myself have been avoiding Carey and what he's been saying for that reason. I personally think he gives too many interviews!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

but some of us like myself have been avoiding Carey and what he's been saying for that reason. I personally think he gives too many interviews!

I think he's personally waaayyy too enthusiast about his own material, but what the hell. :woot:

But, yeah, he's kinda big on semi-spoilers. Oh well.

[emmymae]

I like enthusiasm. I don't know Karima but I think maybe someone kicked her killer programming into high gear. She looks weird on the preview cover. I think that Gambit's killer mission with the Marauders may not be what it seems. He could be playing both sides with the hidden intention of saving instead of killing. You never know with Gambit. Otherwise, he's certainly lost his mind.

A darker Rogue you say. How so? I didn't read the issue. I'd be curious to know.

[Havok83]

I like enthusiasm. I don't know Karima but I think maybe someone kicked her killer programming into high gear. She looks weird on the preview cover. I think that Gambit's killer mission with the Marauders may not be what it seems. He could be playing both sides with the hidden intention of saving instead of killing. You never know with Gambit. Otherwise, he's certainly lost his mind.

A darker Rogue you say. How so? I didn't read the issue. I'd be curious to know.
yeah I mentioned Karima and her sentinel programming coming back. I hope its explained that it was temprorarily malfunctioning or something. A sentinel should never have been trusted to join the X-men and be in the mansion near the children. The X-men, especailly after OZT and what they all went through never looked twice about her being there. You would think she'd at least be given more extensive tests

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

A sentinel should never have been trusted to join the X-men and be in the mansion near the children.

My biggest gripe with the book, actually. Well, besides the art.

I don't really have a problem with Carey's writing (overrated but still pretty damn decent IMO), but the whole premise of this team is ridiculous.

It was a GIVEN that HALF OF THE BLOODY TEAM would betray them. And we're supposed to believe anyone would get away with THAT dicey of a command decision because he/she's so ROXOR??

Preposterous, really. :whatever:

[emmymae]

That is so interesting. I bought an back issue of the X-Men Annual for 2000 and I saw a part about Karima being the former sweetheart of Thunderbird. She was formerly good. Yeah, I don't know why the X-Men would take in a sentinel.

[Specter313]

yeah I mentioned Karima and her sentinel programming coming back. I hope its explained that it was temprorarily malfunctioning or something. A sentinel should never have been trusted to join the X-men and be in the mansion near the children. The X-men, especailly after OZT and what they all went through never looked twice about her being there. You would think she'd at least be given more extensive tests

Hasn't this been explained before? Go read the Excalibur series that took place on Genosha. Xavier and Magneto completely reprogrammed her so that she kept her original mind and wasn't taken over by the sentinel programming. Nothing "temporary malfunction" about it. They fixed her. Someone will have to go in and hack into her to make her change. The X-Men's own mentor trusted her, that was probably enough for most of them to take her in, especially after Beast himself even rebuilt her and had a good enough look at her systems. You really think he'd allow her to be reactivated if he knew she wasn't going to still be in control of her own mind? I seriously doubt it.

[Rogue's Hand]

yeah I mentioned Karima and her sentinel programming coming back. I hope its explained that it was temprorarily malfunctioning or something. A sentinel should never have been trusted to join the X-men and be in the mansion near the children. The X-men, especailly after OZT and what they all went through never looked twice about her being there. You would think she'd at least be given more extensive tests
What do you think made her switch sides though?
Who activated it (Sentinel Program)? Sinister?

[emmymae]

Darth, I don't know what else they could do with all those enemies seeking shelter at the X-mansion because of M-Day. No matter the risk, they had to do something constructive with them, if to at least keep them away from the remaining X-students. And Rogue's crazy enough to do it. Playing it safe isn't an option anymore.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Darth, I don't know what else they could do with all those enemies seeking shelter at the X-mansion because of M-Day. No matter the risk, they had to do something constructive with them, if to at least keep them away from the remaining X-students. And Rogue's crazy enough to do it. Playing it safe isn't an option anymore.

And said plan (not playing it safe) backfiring doesn't prove my point because...???? :woot:

And about keeping the students safe. PLEASE. It never was primarily about that. Had it been, ROGUE would've pointed it out while arguing rather than just tell Scott, Emma and Hank off.

[Havok83]

My biggest gripe with the book, actually. Well, besides the art.

I don't really have a problem with Carey's writing (overrated but still pretty damn decent IMO), but the whole premise of this team is ridiculous.

It was a GIVEN that HALF OF THE BLOODY TEAM would betray them. And we're supposed to believe anyone would get away with THAT dicey of a command decision because he/she's so ROXOR??

Preposterous, really. :whatever:
LOL..you are so right. Mystique, Karima, Lady Mastermind, Sabretooth? NONE Of them has shown any remorse for what they've done in the past nor that they had any intetions of actually changing. It didnt make much sense to me. They werent former villians. They were current villians who were thrown with the X-men bc of the current situation but they couldnt be trusted. Mystqiue, I guess didnt quite fit that bc she was shown trying to be with the team prior but why would the trust her and its not like she did show any remorse for the pain and trouble she's caused

[Havok83]

Hasn't this been explained before? Go read the Excalibur series that took place on Genosha. Xavier and Magneto completely reprogrammed her so that she kept her original mind and wasn't taken over by the sentinel programming. Nothing "temporary malfunction" about it. They fixed her. Someone will have to go in and hack into her to make her change. The X-Men's own mentor trusted her, that was probably enough for most of them to take her in, especially after Beast himself even rebuilt her and had a good enough look at her systems. You really think he'd allow her to be reactivated if he knew she wasn't going to still be in control of her own mind? I seriously doubt it.
the whole basis of the prime sentinel program as explained in OZT, was that the person completely lost who they were. They lost their conscience and free will and sole mission was to exist to kill mutants. What CC did in Excalibur didnt jive well with me and didnt make sense considering that one of the main defining points of the prime sentinels is just that. There is no overiding to do and if that could be done than it makes things to easy.

[Specter313]

LOL..you are so right. Mystique, Karima, Lady Mastermind, Sabretooth? NONE Of them has shown any remorse for what they've done in the past nor that they had any intetions of actually changing. It didnt make much sense to me. They werent former villians. They were current villians who were thrown with the X-men bc of the current situation but they couldnt be trusted. Mystqiue, I guess didnt quite fit that bc she was shown trying to be with the team prior but why would the trust her and its not like she did show any remorse for the pain and trouble she's caused

Again, I really have to ask how much exposure to Karima you actually have. Because if you've been following her, especially in the Genoshan Excalibur series, you'd know she HATES what's become of her. There was even a part during one issue where she broke down crying after she saw what she'd become. Of course, it was Claremont writing her at the time so she immediately went into the "I will take what's happened to me and use it for good" mode, but it's still in canon and should prove that there is no grounds for calling her a flat out villian or not being someone who has tried to change, because that's just plain not true.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

LOL..you are so right. Mystique, Karima, Lady Mastermind, Sabretooth?

I KNOW. Such a delusional fanfic roster it's not even funny. :woot:

Funniest thing is that some hardcore Rogue fans get all pissed off at said observation and refer to it as character bashing. :whatever:

It's the *decision* itself we have a problem with, not the fact that it was *her* that made the call, damnit. We're talking *big picture* here. :woot:

[Havok83]

Darth, I don't know what else they could do with all those enemies seeking shelter at the X-mansion because of M-Day. No matter the risk, they had to do something constructive with them, if to at least keep them away from the remaining X-students. And Rogue's crazy enough to do it. Playing it safe isn't an option anymore.
So instead of keeping the villains and murders way from the children, they invite them into their home? The children were getting killed left and right. The last thing they needed to do was bring in a sentinel and Sabretooth, especially after the last time he was at the mansion, he tried to slaughter Tabitha and ended up gutting Psylocke. He's an animal who strives on killing. Thats one mutant that never should have been trusted anywhere in the mansion

[Specter313]

the whole basis of the prime sentinel program as explained in OZT, was that the person completely lost who they were. They lost their conscience and free will and sole mission was to exist to kill mutants. What CC did in Excalibur didnt jive well with me and didnt make sense considering that one of the main defining points of the prime sentinels is just that. There is no overiding to do and if that could be done than it makes things to easy.

Again, go back at look at it. They flat out STOPPED the programming before it even took over her mind. So yes, it does work since you said it right there yourself. They lose their conscience when the programming takes over, well, they didn't let it take over her, so her own mind still exists. Claremont may have not been at the top of his game when writing the series, but it is in canon, and it with things like this that unless you are an actual writer for the book and want to change the whole thing around, personal feelings have to be put aside because it is a fact in the Marvelverse.

[Havok83]

Again, I really have to ask how much exposure to Karima you actually have. Because if you've been following her, especially in the Genoshan Excalibur series, you'd know she HATES what's become of her. There was even a part during one issue where she broke down crying after she saw what she'd become. Of course, it was Claremont writing her at the time so she immediately went into the "I will take what's happened to me and use it for good" mode, but it's still in canon and should prove that there is no grounds for calling her a flat out villian or not being someone who has tried to change, because that's just plain not true.
I read that and like I said a prime sentinel does NOT have a conscience. A prime sentinel does not cry or dwell about what they've become. A prime sentinel does not have the capacity to think about changing. CC completely rewrote the defintion of them to fit his own creation. I read all of OZT and the boundaries for them were pretty clear

[Rogue's Hand]

I KNOW. Such a delusional fanfic roster it's not even funny. :woot:

Funniest thing is that some hardcore Rogue fans get all pissed off at said observation and refer to it as character bashing. :whatever:

It's the *decision* itself we have a problem with, not the fact that it was *her* that made the call, damnit. We're talking *big picture* here. :woot:
Well, as a Rogue fan I have strong faith that the team roster was that
way for a reason. Rogue wanted the most dangerous people closest to
her. Though it might strike you as an idiotic move, I think it will serve it's
purpose.:cwink:

[Specter313]

I read that and like I said a prime sentinel does NOT have a conscience. A prime sentinel does not cry or dwell about what they've become. A prime sentinel does not have the capacity to think about changing. CC completely rewrote the defintion of them to fit his own creation. I read all of OZT and the boundaries for them were pretty clear

But again, as I pointed out, they STOPPED her from becoming a full prime sentinel. So while he did change a few things, it still fits in your definition you gave. When the programming takes over, they lose their minds. Well, if the programming never does take over, then they'd clearly still keep their own minds, wouldn't they?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, as a Rogue fan I have strong faith that the team roster was that
way for a reason. Rogue wanted the most dangerous people closest to
her. Though it might strike you as an idiotic move, I think it will serve it's
purpose.:cwink:

Sure, nearly getting all the good guys smacked around in the upcoming arc.

That's a BAD thing, btw. :wow:

[Canemacar]

Well, as a Rogue fan I have strong faith that the team roster was that
way for a reason. Rogue wanted the most dangerous people closest to
her. Though it might strike you as an idiotic move, I think it will serve it's
purpose.:cwink:

And it served that purpose admirably. Flawlessly, in fact.


Too bad that purpose is "get the team's ass kicked royally when two, possibly three, members defect and one member dies during a visit from the Marauders."

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

And it served that purpose admirably. Flawlessly, in fact.

Too bad that purpose is "get the team's ass kicked royally when two, possibly three, members defect and one member dies during a visit from the Marauders."

I know we don't agree on every thing, but... I love you man, lol. :woot:

There's just something about common sense, really. :woot:

[Havok83]

Sure, nearly getting all the good guys smacked around in the upcoming arc.

That's a BAD thing, btw. :wow:
The only one that Rogue explained was Mystique and she said that sooner or later Mystique would backsab them and when she does, she wanted to be there to break her arm and make her swallow it. Even Rogue didnt trust her and knew she'd betray the team. I guess she went for the keep your friends close and enemies closer, but I dont think that was such a smart idea bc Mystique is alot smarter than she is, well than most of the X-men. Giving her of all people, an international terrorist, access to all their resources wasnt a good idea and I explained Sabretooth and Karima already. Lady Mastermind probably was the least to worry about since she hasnt been around long and doesnt have much history but in the very next arc she started acting up and showing that she hasnt changed and sent up all sorts of red flags. The only ones on Rogue team taht I think she could ever fully trust were Bobby, Cable and Sam

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Having Rogue as a team leader was hardly sensical in the first place.

She's a tough gal and yeah, I'd like to have her in my corner, but, COME ON...

How the hell are we supposed to just forget her well-documented history of emotional instability?? What, her kicking a$$ in the first issue of Supernovas was supposed to do the trick?? :wow:

Oh, and, YEAH, the whole "I want Mystique around so I can smack the b***h up" was hardly an articulate sensical argument. :woot:

[emmymae]

Well, I guess no one can ever prove you wrong.:cwink: I'm siding with Rogue's Hand on this. Now if only I could get certain people to like Gambit and certain people to like Rogue. I seem to be one of the few fans of both left on these boards.

*passes out from exhaustion*

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, I guess no one can ever prove you wrong.:cwink:

Thus my use of *rather well-documented*. :woot:

And damnit, all I'm saying is that for about 95% of her history characters she has exhibited attributes that dn't quite fit with a leader's job description.

Doesn't mean she's not someone you'd kill to have on your team.

[Rogue's Hand]

Having Rogue as a team leader was hardly sensical in the first place.

She's a tough gal and yeah, I'd like to have her in my corner, but, COME ON...

How the hell are we supposed to just forget her well-documented history of emotional instability?? What, her kicking a$$ in the first issue of Supernovas was supposed to do the trick?? :wow:

Oh, and, YEAH, the whole "I want Mystique around so I can smack the b***h up" was hardly an articulate sensical argument. :woot:
Her emotinal instability helped save her and her teammates' butts
at that clinic when she touched Emma and Cyke.
Don't hate too much, it's not good for u :woot:

[Canemacar]

Her emotinal instability helped save her and her teammates' butts
at that clinic when she touched Emma and Cyke.
Don't hate too much, it's not good for u :woot:

Except for the fact that it *shouldn't* have worked since Scott's powers aren't light and thus *shouldn't* have refracted through the diamond. The optic blasts are pure concussive force. Pure force doesn't refract in a crystal. It shatters the crystal.

[Rogue's Hand]

Except for the fact that it *shouldn't* have worked since Scott's powers aren't light and thus *shouldn't* have refracted through the diamond. The optic blasts are pure concussive force. Pure force doesn't refract in a crystal. It shatters the crystal.
Okay but in the comic it worked.
You aren't the writer Can-Can :oldrazz:

[OutcryX]

Ok..back to Karima( i just like her for some reason) Prime Sentinel..Omega Sentinel..whatever...if it is true that hr 'programming' has kicked in and she is in kill mode...then WHY is she running with the Marauders and Acolytes? They are mutants!! her betrayal has to be something else. unless whoever hacked her said 'you can kill mutants again, just not the Marauders or Acolytes'....bad writing. here is hoping she becomes good again.

i like non-mutants fighting alongside the X-men. The x-men themselves fight for a world of peaceful co-existance, why not welcome super powered humans into their ranks?

[iamlegend]

Ok..back to Karima( i just like her for some reason) Prime Sentinel..Omega Sentinel..whatever...if it is true that hr 'programming' has kicked in and she is in kill mode...then WHY is she running with the Marauders and Acolytes? They are mutants!! her betrayal has to be something else. unless whoever hacked her said 'you can kill mutants again, just not the Marauders or Acolytes'....bad writing. here is hoping she becomes good again.

i like non-mutants fighting alongside the X-men. The x-men themselves fight for a world of peaceful co-existance, why not welcome super powered humans into their ranks?

Look, it's not bad writing just because a character you like winds up fighting on the wrong side. Right now no one actually knows WHY Karima will side with the Marauders, just that she does. Everything you've read on this board is pure speculation. No one knows if her programming has been altered, it's just an idea.

Read the issue when it comes out before calling something bad writing.

[iamlegend]

Okay but in the comic it worked.
You aren't the writer Can-Can :oldrazz:

No, he's a fan. And when writers ignore stuff like that they're insulting the fans by assuming we won't catch it.

[anyjus]

I agree with that. I was dissipointed to see that Karima is switching sides. I hope it's not of her own free will.

[OutcryX]

Look, it's not bad writing just because a character you like winds up fighting on the wrong side. Right now no one actually knows WHY Karima will side with the Marauders, just that she does. Everything you've read on this board is pure speculation. No one knows if her programming has been altered, it's just an idea.

Read the issue when it comes out before calling something bad writing.


umm..if thats what happens, and nobody knows for sure yet, then in MY opinion it IS bad writing and i will call it as so.

[iamlegend]

umm..if thats what happens, and nobody knows for sure yet, then in MY opinion it IS bad writing and i will call it as so.

You read my post, right? All I said was to wait before freaking out. :whatever:

[OutcryX]

You read my post, right? All I said was to wait before freaking out. :whatever:

and i wasn't freaking out, just making a statement:whatever: . but i'm done with that. moving on.

[Nature's Rising]

Except for the fact that it *shouldn't* have worked since Scott's powers aren't light and thus *shouldn't* have refracted through the diamond. The optic blasts are pure concussive force. Pure force doesn't refract in a crystal. It shatters the crystal.

I agree with this. Scott's powers are very powerful, and refraction doesn't apply here. It just don't.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Okay but in the comic it worked.
You aren't the writer Can-Can :oldrazz:

His point was that Carey f***d it up by pretty much proving it's been years since he opened a science book.

And man, exactly *when* did Carey - allegedly - became a Cyke fan anyway? What, he read Morrison and Whedon's runs over the past six months or something?

Re-read Supernovas and, man, Cyke is such a tool in this arc it's not even funny. :wow:

[El Bastardo]

Re-read Supernovas and, man, Cyke is such a tool in this arc it's not even funny. :wow:

Well, that's not totally fair to blame Carey for that. That's the stereotypical Cyclops image since he fell into a black hole in some previous point in time and everyone stopped knowing how to write him or what to do with him. On another note, since Cyke isn't really a part of Adjectiveless, Carey was using him as a flat character to further plot.

Yes, there are flat characters in comics.

[El Bastardo]

And blah, on the matter of the team make-up. Mystique had been placed among the X-Men by Milligan's crap-job of writing, and Carey was rolling with that. Far as I'm concerned, his writing of Rogue wanting to take Mystique is justifiable. Rogue has, undoubtedly, the closest ties to Mystique (who was more of a mother to her than to Kurt, who - and by all means, correct me if I'm wrong - Mystique would probably just prefer to forget about), so why not take her along? If Mystique's words are genuine, no harm, no foul. If she's just biding her time, right - the whole "keep your enemies closer" schtick.

Sabretooth? He showed up at the mansion running away from the freakazoids who were sooner or later en route. Let's not forget that, initially, Rogue and Cable were interrogating and essentially torturing Sabretooth, to the point that Beast wanted out of it. He was already there at the Mansion - what makes more sense? Turning him out so he can go run amuck through New York and do lord knows what? Or do you take the berserking animal and set him loose on the threat that actually scares him? And then, when that's over with, and he's survived, again - do you set him loose, or do you keep him on a chain? I mean chain figuratively, of course. They took him AWAY from the mansion so that a repeat of Boom Boom and Psylocke wouldn't occur.

Karima? Genoshan Excalibur, as Specter has pointed out.

Lady Mastermind? Well, she was just kinda there. Might as well take her along so no one at the Institute has to worry about Ms. Self-Proclaimed Bad Girl.

Y'know, yeah, maybe the roster is a little suspect, but there -is- reasoning involved. And no, I'm not a Rogue fanboy. I would have preferred to see Cable as the leader on this team, when I saw the initial roster. That wouldn't have made that much sense, though, given his current antics over in Cable/Deadpool.
But, a question. With Havok in space, Nightcrawler in space, Xavier in space, and the current roster in Astonishing... who would have been a suitable leader to use in X-Men, since Rogue obviously makes no sense?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, that's not totally fair to blame Carey for that. That's the stereotypical Cyclops image since he fell into a black hole in some previous point in time and everyone stopped knowing how to write him or what to do with him. On another note, since Cyke isn't really a part of Adjectiveless, Carey was using him as a flat character to further plot.

Thus my tool comment. :woot:

Still, just throw in a panel of him and/or Emma telling Rogue "We'll talk about this later" would've made them, oh, I dunno, look like actual headmasters. Just because one borrows characters for a short duration doesn't mean they *HAVE* to look bad. :cwink:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

But, a question. With Havok in space, Nightcrawler in space, Xavier in space, and the current roster in Astonishing... who would have been a suitable leader to use in X-Men, since Rogue obviously makes no sense?

Sam or Bobby.

If just for the fact that they don't have a rather extensive history of going off and being emotionally instable.

And just so we're clear, I'm not comparing Rogue to Crazy Lorna, aight??? She just doesn't have the calm/collected thingy going on for her most of the time. ;)

[Harlekin]

Rogue actually has more leading experience than Bobby does. While I'm a big fan of Sam, and think he should definitely be the leader of the team in the future, I just don't see him leading a team with A) Cable and B) everybody being older than him.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Rogue actually has more leading experience than Bobby does. While I'm a big fan of Sam, and think he should definitely be the leader of the team in the future, I just don't see him leading a team with A) Cable and B) everybody being older than him.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Sam and Bobby would be that much of a *better* choice. It's just that the 'going off' thingy really could and statistically speaking *should* backfire fast and ugly.

[Rogue's Hand]

She's leading the team, deal with it :whatever: :woot:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

She's leading the team, deal with it :whatever: :woot:

Don't have much of a choice, do we? Oh well.

Oh, and don't think for one second Can and I won't feed you a very similar line if she *does* lose the job. Fairplay and all. :cwink:

[Rogue's Hand]

Don't have much of a choice, do we? Oh well.

Oh, and don't think for one second Can and I won't feed you a very similar line if she *does* lose the job. Fairplay and all. :cwink:
To be honest I could care less if she loses the position.
I'm much happier with the after effects of strain 88.
I'd rather see Rogue grow in power, then in team rank.:cwink:
So you and Can can bring it on :woot:

[Canemacar]

Rogue's power is vastly overrated. It's temporary, easy to counter-act, and requires her to get *very* close to utilize. If they didn't go out of their way to make her seem uber, she'd get taken down long before she got close enough to use her powers. Even then, any enemy who takes very basic precautions against her ( clothes in other words) neutralizes her edge. And even if she does, by one plot device or another manage to absorb them, the effects only last a little while, then she's out of luck.

This Strain-88 stuff is just more crap thrown in to make her seem all-powerful.

[Havok83]

Rogue's power is vastly overrated. It's temporary, easy to counter-act, and requires her to get *very* close to utilize. If they didn't go out of their way to make her seem uber, she'd get taken down long before she got close enough to use her powers. Even then, any enemy who takes very basic precautions against her ( clothes in other words) neutralizes her edge. And even if she does, by one plot device or another manage to absorb them, the effects only last a little while, then she's out of luck.

This Strain-88 stuff is just more crap thrown in to make her seem all-powerful.
thats why her power has never been her main means of attack. The super strength, invulnerability and flight that she gained from Ms. Marvel have been utilized with her as a powerhouse more than anything. When she's absorbed someone, the majority of the time it has been an ally to help and augment her own abilities. She doesnt go around touching most of her enemies, for the reasons you stated

[Canemacar]

I'm just sick of her being hyped as if her power was the alpha and omega. She got a "severe" (the highest) threat ranking in the Civil War handbook thing because of her powers.

[spark627]

how many threads are you going to fill with your anti-rogue rant?

[Havok83]

I'm just sick of her being hyped as if her power was the alpha and omega. She got a "severe" (the highest) threat ranking in the Civil War handbook thing because of her powers.
I know how you feel. When the movie was released, I saw several people argue the fact that she was a level 5 mutant, like Jean bc of her powers. She was a level 1 and has potential to be higher but then again thats someone else's powers and not her own

One thing Ive noticed is that Marvel really has depowered her in recent years. Look at Evolution, the movies and the Ultimate line? All versions have erased teh Ms. Marvel aspect from her and she's only had her baseline powers and definetly weaker. Around the same time, they also depowered her in the 616 books and then only gave her, her baseline powers. Im not exactly sure where Carey is heading but it looks like he has some plans for her future in this department. Hope he disapoints bc I felt Rogue's powers have been an absolute mess since CC decided to screw them up during Maximum Security

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Rogue's power is vastly overrated. It's temporary, easy to counter-act, and requires her to get *very* close to utilize. If they didn't go out of their way to make her seem uber, she'd get taken down long before she got close enough to use her powers. Even then, any enemy who takes very basic precautions against her ( clothes in other words) neutralizes her edge. And even if she does, by one plot device or another manage to absorb them, the effects only last a little while, then she's out of luck.

This Strain-88 stuff is just more crap thrown in to make her seem all-powerful.

Huh. Funny how I get this vibe the last line is the more important here. :woot:

[Canemacar]

how many threads are you going to fill with your anti-rogue rant?

As many as it takes.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

To be honest I could care less if she loses the position.
I'm much happier with the after effects of strain 88.
I'd rather see Rogue grow in power, then in team rank.:cwink:

Still very much in line with the "OMG ROXOR" thingy. You're not exactly refuting any of our points regarding Carey pushing Rogue up and being too much of a wuss to just admit it. :woot:

[spark627]

As many as it takes.

and you hope to accomplish what?

[Colossal Spoons]

*signs up for the Rogue hate*

:o

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

and you hope to accomplish what?

Refer to Spoons' post. :woot:

ROTFLMAO. The timing just *couldn't* have been better. :woot:

[Canemacar]

*signs up for the Rogue hate*

:o


And so it begins.....

*nefarious cackle*







:oldrazz:

[Colossal Spoons]

What are the chances of Strain 88 just killing her? That would awesome.

*prays*

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

ROTFLMAO.

Hardcore, Spoons, Hardcore. :woot:

[Canemacar]

What are the chances of Strain 88 just killing her? That would awesome.

*prays*

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

[Rogue's Hand]

how many threads are you going to fill with your anti-rogue rant?
It's sickening. Not fever sickening, but Cancer sickening.
I've never wished for Rogue to touch Gambit at a more perfect time.

[Canemacar]

It's sickening. Not fever sickening, but Cancer sickening.
I've never wished for Rogue to touch Gambit at a more perfect time.

Rogue's gonna eat a card, baby! :woot:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It's sickening. Not fever sickening, but Cancer sickening.
I've never wished for Rogue to touch Gambit at a more perfect time.

Amusingly enough, Can has never wished for Gambit to blow the f**k out of Rogue at a more perfect time.

When 'Yin/Yang goes pissed off' indeed :woot:

[Rogue's Hand]

and you hope to accomplish what?
That his undercover fanatic acts will spill through this thread unnoticed :whatever:

[Colossal Spoons]

I wonder how much more I'd like Gambit if he weren't always being wrapped up in the tragic love-disaster with Rogue? I think him being Death is the first time I've cared about him only because it didn't involve the whole "boohoo we can't touch" schtick.

[Rogue's Hand]

Amusingly enough, Can has never wished for Gambit to blow the f**k out of Rogue at a more perfect time.

When 'Yin/Yang goes pissed off' indeed :woot:
I could care less. He might as well have said that.

[Rogue's Hand]

I wonder how much more I'd like Gambit if he weren't always being wrapped up in the tragic love-disaster with Rogue? I think him being Death is the first time I've cared about him only because it didn't involve the whole "boohoo we can't touch" schtick.
Maybe if he wasn't p____ whooped and did his own thing
you wouldn't have had to encounter Rogue at all,
which is fine with me :cwink:

[Colossal Spoons]

Maybe if he wasn't p____ whooped and did his own thing
you wouldn't have had to encounter Rogue at all,
which is fine with me :cwink:

I agree :up:

The man needs to stand on his own two feet.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I could care less. He might as well have said that.

Wasn't him 'eating a card' comment JUST THAT?

[Canemacar]

I could care less. He might as well have said that.

Umm. I think I just did.

[Rogue's Hand]

Wasn't him 'eating a card' comment JUST THAT?
It's okay. The real brawl is coming next issue.
No worries :whatever: :woot:

[Rogue's Hand]

Um. i did.
You always "did" that :dry:

[OutcryX]

Since Carey is every fanfic writer's dream and loes putting together the obscure cast...why not add Lifeguard, Thunderbird III and Fixx(from the late 90s Xfactor) to the mix....with a sprinkling of Bishop

[Havok83]

I wonder how much more I'd like Gambit if he weren't always being wrapped up in the tragic love-disaster with Rogue? I think him being Death is the first time I've cared about him only because it didn't involve the whole "boohoo we can't touch" schtick.
IA. I have never cared for Gambit, but in a weird way Milligan making him Death was the best thing that could have happened to him for me, bc now Im actually interested in him. The character has been stale, and boring for years and a big part of that has been due to that constant never ending romance that should have stayed dead after UXM 350. Im glad Gambit was written out of the books bc I needed a break from him. I think making him Death has given any future writer for him a chance to rejuvenate him and start over so to speak without having to tie him to all that baggage that brought him down before. This also did wonders for Rogue to as evidence by Carey in X-men. Never did care for her much before but absolutely loving her and the longer they keep them away from each other, the longer I can appreciate both characters as individuals

[Canemacar]

It's okay. The real brawl is coming next issue.
No worries :whatever: :woot:

And the solicits have already told us rogue and co. get a glorious beatdown courtesy of Remy and his marauder buddies. In fact, Sam and Iceman go running for help from the looks of things.:woot:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It's okay. The real brawl is coming next issue.
No worries :whatever: :woot:

No, I meant that the 'card' comment was Can saying he wished her dead.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Since Carey is every fanfic writer's dream

You're officially on my 'people that pwn' list as of now.

Gotta love people aknowledging Carey's roster has no business belonging in canon. Rock on, buddy. :woot:

[Colossal Spoons]

IA. I have never cared for Gambit, but in a weird way Milligan making him Death was the best thing that could have happened to him for me, bc now Im actually interested in him. The character has been stale, and boring for years and a big part of that has been due to that constant never ending romance that should have stayed dead after UXM 350. Im glad Gambit was written out of the books bc I needed a break from him. I think making him Death has given any future writer for him a chance to rejuvenate him and start over so to speak without having to tie him to all that baggage that brought him down before. This also did wonders for Rogue to as evidence by Carey in X-men. Never did care for her much before but absolutely loving her and the longer they keep them away from each other, the longer I can appreciate both characters as individuals

Totally :up:

I'm a longtime Sunfire fan too and I hope he hangs around instead of drifting off into limbo after the summer.

[OutcryX]

I also love Sunfire...and his AoA costume design DESERVES to be seen every month in the pages of X-Men

[OutcryX]

You're officially on my 'people that pwn' list as of now.

Gotta love people aknowledging Carey's roster has no business belonging in canon. Rock on, buddy. :woot:


Why thanks. i mean it was a completely random grouping with characters that nobody cared about, much less knew of. made it work though, for what it was.

[Canemacar]

I thought the AoA sunfire look was cool, but shouldn't have been seen outside of the AoA; using it again in BoA was just lazy (but given the tripe that arc was, I'm not surprised).

[Colossal Spoons]

I also love Sunfire...and his AoA costume design DESERVES to be seen every month in the pages of X-Men

Hell yeah!

[El Bastardo]

Sam or Bobby.

If just for the fact that they don't have a rather extensive history of going off and being emotionally instable.

And just so we're clear, I'm not comparing Rogue to Crazy Lorna, aight??? She just doesn't have the calm/collected thingy going on for her most of the time. ;)

I find myself regretting my actually saying this, but - oh lordy me - just because one has been characterized for awhile as emotionally unstable doesn't mean one cannot be a competant leader. I know you're not comparing Rogue to Crazy Lorna, and emotionally unstable does not equal crazy. Crazy Lorna is not a leader. Since all Rogue happens to be is emotional, and might fly off the handle, that doesn't mean she's incapable as a leader. Kirk was emotional. Spock was not a better leader than Kirk.

They're two different things, but one doesn't necessarily a better leader make. Not all leaders can be anti-social nutjobs like the Cyclops I love so much. Not all leaders should be cold and detached, because they don't need to be.

As for Sam or Bobby, eh. I knew those would be the choices, but let's face facts. For better or worse, Bobby's been written for so long as the jokester or immature teammember or whatever. I don't see how that's going to make him a better candidate for leadership. And as for Sam, even though I could see him leading, he's way too young and inexperienced, not to mention, I'd say, more of a soldier than a leader.

But otherwise, I could care less how suspect Carey's team and leadership might seem. I by no means think it's the greatest line-up, and I by no means have any uber love for the characters in it (rather, I'll be rooting for Gambit and Sunfire, especially since Sunfire's keeping his kickass AoA look), but if it makes sense it makes sense, and I tend not to argue with stuff making sense.

[OutcryX]

I find myself regretting my actually saying this, but - oh lordy me - just because one has been characterized for awhile as emotionally unstable doesn't mean one cannot be a competant leader. I know you're not comparing Rogue to Crazy Lorna, and emotionally unstable does not equal crazy. Crazy Lorna is not a leader. Since all Rogue happens to be is emotional, and might fly off the handle, that doesn't mean she's incapable as a leader. Kirk was emotional. Spock was not a better leader than Kirk.

They're two different things, but one doesn't necessarily a better leader make. Not all leaders can be anti-social nutjobs like the Cyclops I love so much. Not all leaders should be cold and detached, because they don't need to be.

As for Sam or Bobby, eh. I knew those would be the choices, but let's face facts. For better or worse, Bobby's been written for so long as the jokester or immature teammember or whatever. I don't see how that's going to make him a better candidate for leadership. And as for Sam, even though I could see him leading, he's way too young and inexperienced, not to mention, I'd say, more of a soldier than a leader.

But otherwise, I could care less how suspect Carey's team and leadership might seem. I by no means think it's the greatest line-up, and I by no means have any uber love for the characters in it (rather, I'll be rooting for Gambit and Sunfire, especially since Sunfire's keeping his kickass AoA look), but if it makes sense it makes sense, and I tend not to argue with stuff making sense.

Sam IS a leader. He lead X-Force after Cable left. it was his time there that got him promoted to the X-Men. He CAN lead and be very effective with it. not a soldier, but very well trained and taught by the master soldier himself, Master Chief...er, Cable

[Havok83]

Totally :up:

I'm a longtime Sunfire fan too and I hope he hangs around instead of drifting off into limbo after the summer.
lol...I never cared for Sunfire, until I played XML2 and found out how awesome he was. I absolutely loved the costume on the left and wish they'd use it but the AOA design is good. He defiently needs to become a "true" X-men.
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2039/sunfirexo8.jpg

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Kirk was emotional. Spock was not a better leader than Kirk.

I'm just saying Rogue is *KINDA* above your average emotional. :wow:

'EMO-fueled tantrums' is basically her second name. :wow:


Not all leaders can be anti-social nutjobs like the Cyclops I love so much.

God I love other Cyke fans liking him for being such a nutjob. Rock on, buddy. :woot:


As for Sam or Bobby, eh. I knew those would be the choices, but let's face facts. For better or worse, Bobby's been written for so long as the jokester or immature teammember or whatever. I don't see how that's going to make him a better candidate for leadership. And as for Sam, even though I could see him leading, he's way too young and inexperienced, not to mention, I'd say, more of a soldier than a leader.

As I've said before, I don't really think they'd make *great* choices. Well, as of YET for Sam anyway. A 'lesser of two evils' scenario as far as I'm concerned.

[OutcryX]

I'm a Cyclops fan. i dont care about his mental state and the fact that he is an adulterous wife and child abandoning arsehole. the visors make him cool.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I'm a Cyclops fan. i dont care about his mental state and the fact that he is an adulterous wife and child abandoning arsehole. the visors make him cool.

Fair enough, lol. :woot:

There *is* something about blasting the f**k out of stuff just by looking at it and wearing a spiffy visor while doing so.

[Harlekin]

Cannonball is in many ways, the perfect leader AND soldier. He's been trained by a wide variety of tactics and beliefs. He's been under the tutelage of Xavier (idealist), Magneto (agressor), Cable (soldier) and Pete Wisdom (black ops). He's lead the New Mutants and X-Force, and is really the Cyclops to the second generation of mutants, without most of Cycke's flaws.

He's just too young right now to lead a team that is composed of people older than him. Besides that, he needs a little more time as one of the normal members before stepping up to the plate. When the X-Men comics ever see progression though, and the old guard is slowly filtered away, Cannonball is the best and only logical choice to lead the team. He could be the next Captain America in terms of leadership.

[OutcryX]

Cannonball is in many ways, the perfect leader AND soldier. He's been trained by a wide variety of tactics and beliefs. He's been under the tutelage of Xavier (idealist), Magneto (agressor), Cable (soldier) and Pete Wisdom (black ops). He's lead the New Mutants and X-Force, and is really the Cyclops to the second generation of mutants, without most of Cycke's flaws.

He's just too young right now to lead a team that is composed of people older than him. Besides that, he needs a little more time as one of the normal members before stepping up to the plate. When the X-Men comics ever see progression though, and the old guard is slowly filtered away, Cannonball is the best and only logical choice to lead the team. He could be the next Captain America in terms of leadership.


I agree...completely

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

He's just too young right now to lead a team that is composed of people older than him. Besides that, he needs a little more time as one of the normal members before stepping up to the plate. When the X-Men comics ever see progression though, and the old guard is slowly filtered away, Cannonball is the best and only logical choice to lead the team. He could be the next Captain America in terms of leadership.

Just might be what Blinded By Light will be all about for Sam, eh? :woot:

[bengan]

I thought the AoA sunfire look was cool, but shouldn't have been seen outside of the AoA; using it again in BoA was just lazy (but given the tripe that arc was, I'm not surprised).
Well Bachalo have been reusing the costumes from AoA. Lady M have Dazzlers look(except its black) and Rogue have her clothes.

[Havok83]

Well Bachalo have been reusing the costumes from AoA. Lady M have Dazzlers look(except its black) and Rogue have her clothes.
Rogue has her original costume. Bachalo also brought it back the last time he drew for Rogue in the late 90s only this time it has a cape

[El Bastardo]

Cannonball is in many ways, the perfect leader AND soldier. He's been trained by a wide variety of tactics and beliefs. He's been under the tutelage of Xavier (idealist), Magneto (agressor), Cable (soldier) and Pete Wisdom (black ops). He's lead the New Mutants and X-Force, and is really the Cyclops to the second generation of mutants, without most of Cycke's flaws.

He's just too young right now to lead a team that is composed of people older than him. Besides that, he needs a little more time as one of the normal members before stepping up to the plate. When the X-Men comics ever see progression though, and the old guard is slowly filtered away, Cannonball is the best and only logical choice to lead the team. He could be the next Captain America in terms of leadership.

This was what I was hinting at in what I wrote. If I ever had to choose a "Cyclops, Jr." as it was, I'd choose Cannonball. Well, actually, I'd probably choose Cable, but technically he's older than Cyclops while still being Cyclops, Jr., so let's just stick with my original statement here and say Cannonball.

I was a huge X-Force fanboy growing up, when I'd get to read the comics at the grocery store, so yes, I know that Cannonball led them after Cable had gone. But the problem here is that they were his peers, and had basically been in the group while Cable had been grooming Cannonball for leadership. (This is not directed at you, Harlekin, despite my quoting of your post, but rather toward Outcry who quoted mine.) In this, Cannonball was workable. As Harlekin wrote, however, Sam is too young to lead the people making up the X-Men team. He and Bobby might be buddies, Rogue might trust him, but Mystique essentially treated him with disdain in a single sentence in #199, and I think most X-Men members would treat him similarly were he leading them - of course, in a NICER way.

But he makes a great soldier, and that's what I was saying.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

But he makes a great soldier, and that's what I was saying.

And all some of us are saying that Rogue, while not arbitrarily written in the best possible light for the hell of it, makes for a good/great soldier rather than a leader. There's nothing wrong with that.

Seriously, we should have bets on how long it'll take for hardcore Rogue fans to become just as... huh... OPINIATED as Storm fans. :woot:

[El Bastardo]

I'm not debating that Rogue isn't a good/great soldier. I was saying that Cannonball, at this point, wouldn't make the better leader of the two.

Rogue works justifiably as a leader, in my head. The only two names you mentioned were Icey and Cannonball, and I don't think that either make viable leaders at this point - but for better reasons than "emotional unstability." Zing! :woot:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Rogue works justifiably as a leader, in my head. The only two names you mentioned were Icey and Cannonball, and I don't think that either make viable leaders at this point - but for better reasons than "emotional unstability." Zing! :woot:

Yeah, but had it been Bobby or Sam in charge, they wouldn't have picked three people out of six they didn't trust. Almost half the team shouldn't even be in ANY team. You can't use that against Sam/Bobby. :woot:

And just for the record, the mix of "emotional unstability" and Rogue's "Stray and I'll kill you" policy could prove to be more explosive/dangerous than any of Sam and Bobby's "shortcomings". :wow:

[bengan]

Rogue has her original costume. Bachalo also brought it back the last time he drew for Rogue in the late 90s only this time it has a cape
Yea but the cape/costume that Roughe has is the same from AoA followup, where Bachalo did the art.

[El Bastardo]

Yeah, but had it been Bobby or Sam in charge, they wouldn't have picked three people out of six they didn't trust. Almost half the team shouldn't even be in ANY team. You can't use that against Sam/Bobby. :woot:

And just for the record, the mix of "emotional unstability" and Rogue's "Stray and I'll kill you" policy could prove to be more explosive/dangerous than any of Sam and Bobby's "shortcomings". :wow:

But, see, I have no problem with the "Stray and I'll kill you" philosophy, so I can't see why that would be a bad quality in a leader. At the least, it makes sure that people on the team will tow the line and not screw up. :woot: Hey, Stalin had that philosophy going, and may I please point out that Stalin was neither the crippled leader nor the drunk leader among the Allies.

But you're correct. Were Sam or Bobby the team leader, the team would be drastically different, because they're different people. They wouldn't have even been in the same circumstances because it'd be a different writer. But from the conversation we've had thus far, if Sam were the leader, who would be the teammates? The characters in New X-Men? Then they'd be getting Wolverine-style exposure and we'd all hate them. :o And if Bobby were the team leader, his team would consist of "knock knock" and "hyuck hyuck" jokes. :woot: It would make no logical sense for either of them to have Mystique along, or Sabretooth along, or probably Lady M along - but Sam hasn't seemed too hostile toward Karima. But I've already written about the logical sense behind, at least, Sabes and Mystique being along for the ride with Rogue - I still fail to see how, if the joinings make logical sense, they are somehow a detriment.

Maybe we should fault Magneto's X-Men from the Age of Apocalypse as being too good, given that they actually succeeded at their mission and destroyed something that was awesome. [No, I do not believe that the 10th Anniversary trash exists, just as I do not believe the two Matrix sequels exist. I CANNOT HEAR YOU LALALALALALLALALALA.]

[iamlegend]

:woot: Hey, Stalin had that philosophy going, and may I please point out that Stalin was neither the crippled leader nor the drunk leader among the Allies.


Then I guess you can compare the coming collapse of the team to the collapse of the Soviet Union... You know, seeing as how it was the leaders of the USSR that ruined it.

[El Bastardo]

Then I guess you can compare the coming collapse of the team to the collapse of the Soviet Union... You know, seeing as how it was the leaders of the USSR that ruined it.

But it wasn't Stalin who ruined it. I said nothing of the leaders who followed him, thank you very much. And there were several, most of them schmucks. Wow, way to try and take what I said out of context. :whatever:

[Colossal Spoons]

Context. Woohoo!

[OutcryX]

Maybe we should fault Magneto's X-Men from the Age of Apocalypse as being too good, given that they actually succeeded at their mission and destroyed something that was awesome. [No, I do not believe that the 10th Anniversary trash exists, just as I do not believe the two Matrix sequels exist. I CANNOT HEAR YOU LALALALALALLALALALA.]

Well...we can't very well have the 616 X-Men accomplish their mission because uh well...there would be no book. yeah new stories, new threats, blah blah blah

I point you towards The New Adventures of He-Man series that came after masters o the Universe

Dragonball GT which came after the epic awesome badassedness that was Dragonball Z

And Beast Machines(which i actually liked) which could not live up to its predecessor Beast Wars

The X-men's fight for survival and equality must be never ending

[emmymae]

I swear I'm the only person here who doesn't hate the Romy relationship and see it as some detriment to both. Gambit and Rogue are both my favorite characters. Their love is mah inspiration. They prove that each other is loveable. Rogue isn't all emotional. There's a lot more to her.

[El Bastardo]

Dragonball GT which came after the epic awesome badassedness that was Dragonball Z

"Goku! He has been powering up for three episodes now!"
"I know, Vegetable! But the white lights coming from his body are just too pretty! I cannot bring myself to attack him! And we must continue wasting time to better brainwash the leagues of children out there watching!"
"Stupid Carrot! You are not supposed to say that!"
"Oh... I forgot!" *Scratches head.*
"I am going to attack!"
"Don't do it, Pickle! He is too powerful!"
"WHAT? HIS POWER LEVEL IS OVER 900000000000000000!!!!!!!!"
"THAT CANNOT BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

But, see, I have no problem with the "Stray and I'll kill you" philosophy, so I can't see why that would be a bad quality in a leader. At the least, it makes sure that people on the team will tow the line and not screw up. :woot: Hey, Stalin had that philosophy going, and may I please point out that Stalin was neither the crippled leader nor the drunk leader among the Allies.

Now, don't get me wrong. *I* agree with it 100%. The X-Men aren't supposed to. :woot:

Regarding the rest of the post:

1 - I don't like Bobby that much nor any x-teens, lol. :woot:

2 - Look, about the team... Carey basically chose that team so that he could point at Rogue and say: "OMG, even bad guys think's she's ROXOR!!!!!! She SO is leader material!!!"

Like it or not, the subtext of that specific roster was to make Rogue look ruthless/bada$$ rather than make sense as a command decision MADE BY THE GOOD GUYS.

That's quite a different beat than having Sam/Bobby bully kids around. :woot:

We don't have a problem with Rogue looking good or getting stronger. Honestly. We just want it to be in-character and not have a preposterous team roster just for the hell of character worship.

We're actually asking for very very little.

[OutcryX]

"Goku! He has been powering up for three episodes now!"
"I know, Vegetable! But the white lights coming from his body are just too pretty! I cannot bring myself to attack him! And we must continue wasting time to better brainwash the leagues of children out there watching!"
"Stupid Carrot! You are not supposed to say that!"
"Oh... I forgot!" *Scratches head.*
"I am going to attack!"
"Don't do it, Pickle! He is too powerful!"
"WHAT? HIS POWER LEVEL IS OVER 900000000000000000!!!!!!!!"
"THAT CANNOT BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


thats funny!!! now do one for naruto!!

[El Bastardo]

thats funny!!! now do one for naruto!!

I don't watch Naruto. I only admit to watching Dragonball Z because at least, when I was younger, I could pretend that it was, as you said, badass and epic and awesome.

[OutcryX]

I don't watch Naruto. I only admit to watching Dragonball Z because at least, when I was younger, I could pretend that it was, as you said, badass and epic and awesome.


it was and still is.

[El Bastardo]

Now, don't get me wrong. *I* agree with it 100%. The X-Men aren't supposed to. :woot:

Regarding the rest of the post:

1 - I don't like Bobby that much nor any x-teens, lol. :woot:

2 - Look, about the team... Carey basically chose that team so that he could point at Rogue and say: "OMG, even bad guys think's she's ROXOR!!!!!! She SO is leader material!!!"

Like it or not, the subtext of that specific roster was to make Rogue look ruthless/bada$$ rather than make sense as a command decision MADE BY THE GOOD GUYS.

That's quite a different beat than having Sam/Bobby bully kids around. :woot:

We don't have a problem with Rogue looking good or getting stronger. Honestly. We just want it to be in-character and not have a preposterous team roster just for the hell of character worship.

We're actually asking for very very little.

Well, as said before - but I'm going to say again - I'm not much of a Rogue fan, much less fanboy. I do not hate her, but I do not love her. I'm like that with a lot of characters, though, so maybe I just don't get, or maybe I just don't care about, the whole "character worship" crap.

How Carey has written Rogue, how Carey has constructed his team, does not break the story or characterization for me. It does not ruin my reading for it, and I enjoy Adjectiveless and Carey's writing for what it is - an ongoing, serialized story. It's no "Watchmen," it's no "Dark Knight Returns," it's no "Lord of the Rings," but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've had with Milligan on X-Men and CC on Uncanny (I liked Austen on Adjectiveless, and all of you can eat me :O ). But it's a story, and I look at it as such.

Yeah, fine, people reading this can call me out on the fact that I don't have 20+ years of continuity in my head (I'm not pointing at you, Darth, so please don't take that personally). I don't. I only started collecting comics a few years ago, now that I've had funds to do so and have a comic shop around here. (Crumpled subscription comics through the mail make El Bastardo an angry somethingsomething.)

Sure, Rogue doesn't have the past that'd make her a great leader. Characters change. Yeah, fine, she changed suddenly - such is, admittedly, a flaw with monthly serialized books. However, if Carey had tried to slowly ease her into the role, we'd all be whining about Decompression and how he makes Bendis look like a fast storyteller. :woot:

If Carey weren't a self-admitted Rogue-fan and was writing the book as he is, would there still be as much complaining about "character worship" and its ilk? That's mostly rhetorical, since I'm sure the answers will be polarized with all the usual suspects on their usual sides of the fence. :woot:

But I can buy Rogue as taking the "hardline." I don't necessarily see Carey having created the team for the reasons you put out - and actually, wasn't there an interview somewhere along the line where Carey basically said that the only reason Sabretooth wound up on the team is because Bachalo loves drawing him, really wanted to draw him, and more or less begged? I remember reading something about that, and I think it was Sabretooth. I don't care that much - someone else can find it.

But to say it's full-fledged "character worship" and that making Rogue KEWLBEANZ is all Carey cares about is ridiculous. He's furthering the Mystique plot, and that's not bad. He's giving Iceman and Cannonball good screen-time, and that's not bad. Iceman isn't being quite the lazy crackhead jokester or otherwise immature lamer that he was being made through Austen and especially Milligan's runs, and Cannonball's getting to do some hard superhero work. And I've gotten some better Cable moments than I've sometimes seen in his own book, and that's not bad (I'M SORRY, MR. NICIEZA, I DO LOVE YOU).

And while Carey ushered her into the leadership role right away to avoid earlier said decompression, he didn't move her into a flawless leadership role. I think we can all agree that she is a flawed leader, making her tenure as leader in these arcs a matter of "trial by fire." That makes it engaging, in my opinion.

... Eh, I lost my train of thought. I'll get back on the track later, maybe.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

How Carey has written Rogue, how Carey has constructed his team, does not break the story or characterization for me. It does not ruin my reading for it, and I enjoy Adjectiveless and Carey's writing for what it is - an ongoing, serialized story. It's no "Watchmen," it's no "Dark Knight Returns," it's no "Lord of the Rings," but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've had with Milligan on X-Men and CC on Uncanny (I liked Austen on Adjectiveless, and all of you can eat me :O ). But it's a story, and I look at it as such.

Just so we're clear, I don't have a problem with Carey's writing. Ignoring the art, I'd give it about 7.5/10.

I *do* like the execution. Think it's highly overrated, but I still dig somewhat. It's just that the premise is laughable.

Look at AXM. The premise is almost as laughable. I still enjoy the f**k out of it.

I'm not saying it's WRONG to enjoy it. It's just silly to not aknowledge it for what it even if it means coming off as a cynical meanie.


If Carey weren't a self-admitted Rogue-fan and was writing the book as he is, would there still be as much complaining about "character worship" and its ilk?

Of course. Just because an author won't admit something, it doesn't make it any less so. :cwink:


But to say it's full-fledged "character worship" and that making Rogue KEWLBEANZ is all Carey cares about is ridiculous.

Still is what he cares the MOST for.


He's furthering the Mystique plot, and that's not bad. He's giving Iceman and Cannonball good screen-time, and that's not bad. Iceman isn't being quite the lazy crackhead jokester or otherwise immature lamer that he was being made through Austen and especially Milligan's runs, and Cannonball's getting to do some hard superhero work. And I've gotten some better Cable moments than I've sometimes seen in his own book, and that's not bad (I'M SORRY, MR. NICIEZA, I DO LOVE YOU).

Didn't some of us say something about how Mike loves EVERYONE a bit too much???

Pulling off heroics is one thing. But EVERYONE coming off as the best they've EVER been out of the blue?? That just ain't right.

[El Bastardo]

I say bah. (And I know you had no real problems with the writing itself. I do read the threads! :woot: )

But I still say bah.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I say bah. (And I know you had no real problems with the writing itself. I do read the threads! :woot: )

But I still say bah.

What can I say, I'm a cynical SOB. People looking too good or plots/premises being too convenient usually have me laughing out loud or rolling my eyes. :woot:

Trust me on this one, I will maintain until the day I die that Luke had no business not being gutted in 10 seconds flat in TESB and ROTJ and will still be laughing out loud at the sheer impossibility/madness of such turn of events. Still love the f**k out of the flicks. :cwink:

[OutcryX]

well it IS a comicbook, so it doesnt always have to make since. do kids still read these books or just the rapidly aging 20-40 years olds?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

well it IS a comicbook, so it doesnt always have to make since.

Just saying campy doesn't have to be preposterous.

[OutcryX]

Just saying campy doesn't have to be preposterous.


true. and i meant 'sense' not since. damn speed typing. i'd love to see whats the next dream roster he pulls out his asz then have the nerve to make it work.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

true. and i meant 'sense' not since. damn speed typing.

Figured that. Trust me, I do the occasional typo too. Will be the last guy to be an a$$hole about the whole thing.

i'd love to see whats the next dream roster he pulls out his asz then have the nerve to make it work.

I officially love you.

[OutcryX]

i'd love to see angel back, but um...other than flying with those big ass wings...he's useless. how about giving him an offensive power like shooting metal razor darts like arch-angel..as a reminder that you can never get apocalypse from inside you.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

i'd love to see angel back, but um...other than flying with those big ass wings...he's useless.

Wasn't such a well thought-out power, what is it?

He can get from point A to point B. In the AIR. And kinda fast. :wow:

Best pitch ever, really. :woot:

[OutcryX]

Wasn't such a well thought-out power, what is it?

He can get from point A to point B. In the AIR. And kinda fast. :wow:

Best pitch ever, really. :woot:

right. unless they use him as an aerial battering ram wit his speed and all...but cannonball serves that purpose. Warren just looks pretty. he'd be an ideal candidate to get dead...like doug ramsey

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

right. unless they use him as an aerial battering ram wit his speed and all...but cannonball serves that purpose. Warren just looks pretty. he'd be an ideal candidate to get dead...like doug ramsey

Mmm. Didn't he sometimes lift Cyke so he could better shots? We'll conveniently forget Jean could've done just that with her TK and assume it counts as something...? :woot:

[OutcryX]

Mmm. Didn't he sometimes lift Cyke so he could better shots? We'll conveniently forget Jean could've done just that with her TK and assume it counts as something...? :woot:

and as we sit here discussing him..i need to know WHY people want him back? we have flying x-men that can do more than fly. what purpose would he serve? oh, right, to cut himself and throw his blood on people. yuk

[Canemacar]

Mmm. Didn't he sometimes lift Cyke so he could better shots? We'll conveniently forget Jean could've done just that with her TK and assume it counts as something...? :woot:

Well, early on, Jean's TK was pretty pathetic, soI guess having Angel being the human (mutant?) forklift works.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Wasn't I saying it does? ;)

Been a while since I last read pre CC issues. I remember her TK being pathetic, but *that* pathetic??? As in unable to lift a slim guy a 30-40 feet?

[Havok83]

i'd love to see angel back, but um...other than flying with those big ass wings...he's useless. how about giving him an offensive power like shooting metal razor darts like arch-angel..as a reminder that you can never get apocalypse from inside you.
Angel worked well for years with just his wings as a power and never came across as useless. Thats why he was picked to be in the Champions and later Defenders and had his long stint in X-factor. Its only since the past 3 or so years that he's been ignored.

As far as offensive powers, they could always bring back his energy wings. I thought those were really cool and wish they had stuck

[OutcryX]

jean was pathetic all the way up to the phoenix, sadly

[OutcryX]

Angel worked well for years with just his wings as a power and never came across as useless. Thats why he was picked to be in the Champions and later Defenders and had his long stint in X-factor. Its only since the past 3 or so years that he's been ignored.

As far as offensive powers, they could always bring back his energy wings. I thought those were really cool and wish they had stuck
even then, what did he do other than fly?

energy wings? sounds interesting...details please

[Canemacar]

Been a while since I last read pre CC issues. I remember her TK being pathetic, but *that* pathetic??? As in unable to lift a slim guy a 30-40 feet?

She could only lift with TK what she could lift herself (which, being the young girl that she was, wasn't much).

[Havok83]

Wasn't I saying it does? ;)

Been a while since I last read pre CC issues. I remember her TK being pathetic, but *that* pathetic??? As in unable to lift a slim guy a 30-40 feet?
she could but she'd get faint if she overexerted herself. I guess the best explanation is that she was young and just learning how to use her powers. Remember women in hte 60s werent allowed to be strong

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Remember women in hte 60s werent allowed to be strong

Eh.

Still, me think it rather has to do with realizing how creepy the Chuck/Jean thingy was and them not having her train that much with the old guy. :wow:

[Havok83]

even then, what did he do other than fly?

energy wings? sounds interesting...details please
It hapepend during the 12 storyline. When the X-men were trying to bring Wolverine back after he was turned into Death, tehy succeeded but it reawakened something in Warren and he had these light energy wings. He could shoot energy darts from them, he could grow his fingers into talons for attacking and the wings had healing properties. In the end he gave up this power to heal Abraham Kieros, one of the original horseman. Here are some scans of his powers. Wolverine nearly got his azz kicked

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8518/archangelwings1vv9.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8568/archangelwings1aem0.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7936/archangelwings2pw3.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5499/archangelwings3kw2.jpg

[OutcryX]

It hapepend during the 12 storyline. When the X-men were trying to bring Wolverine back after he was turned into Death, tehy succeeded but it reawakened something in Warren and he had these light energy wings. He could shoot energy darts from them, he could grow his fingers into talons for attacking and the wings had healing properties. In the end he gave up this power to heal Abraham Kieros, one of the original horseman. Here are some scans of his powers. Wolverine nearly got his azz kicked

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8518/archangelwings1vv9.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8568/archangelwings1aem0.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7936/archangelwings2pw3.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5499/archangelwings3kw2.jpg


holy shiznit! those were cool..so were his talons! damn this was right after i quit collecting. dayum the wings were awesome. so right when they make him viable and useful, they get rid of it? effin marvel

[Harlekin]

Angel's always rocked.

[OutcryX]

Angel's always rocked.


i dissagree, but thats just my opinion.

[Canemacar]

i dissagree, but thats just my opinion.

Agreed.


(But since it's *my* opinion, that makes it fact. :oldrazz: )

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

You know, I actually like Warren, but there just *might* be something to increasing one power's, what, tenfolds??? :wow:

[OutcryX]

You know, I actually like Warren, but there just *might* be something to increasing one power's, what, tenfolds??? :wow:


yeah, like if they give him the energy wings back..those looked cool. wonder if he had to plug them in at night to recharge

[Canemacar]

yeah, like if they give him the energy wings back..those looked cool. wonder if he had to plug them in at night to recharge

They had better have an emergency battery pack too. It'd suck for them to run out of energy in mid-air.

[OutcryX]

They had better have an emergency battery pack too. It'd suck for them to run out of energy in mid-air.

yeah that would most definitely suck...unless the enrgy stuff is just added to his feather wings. that way he could still fly.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

yeah, like if they give him the energy wings back..those looked cool. wonder if he had to plug them in at night to recharge

Actually, I was being sarcastic and poking fun at how it never damned on Lee/Kirby that flying as a sole power would become obsolete real fast. :woot:

[Canemacar]

Well, he's also rich. Thats a superpower too right?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, he's also rich. Thats a superpower too right?

Well, it does help, I guess. :woot:

[Canemacar]

Well, it does help, I guess. :woot:

He'd better hope so; it's the only good or interesting thing he's got going for him.


Except for banging Husk in mid-flight while her mom watched from the ground below.:woot:

[OutcryX]

that was just odd. its a good thing he's rich. that factor made the mom be cool with watching her daughter be penetrated in mid air infront of her and the 50 other guthrie kids

[Canemacar]

that was just odd. its a good thing he's rich. that factor made the mom be cool with watching her daughter be penetrated in mid air infront of her and the 50 other guthrie kids

Guthrie Kid: Momma! What's he doin' ta Paige?

Ma Guthrie: Payin' her way through college!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

He'd better hope so; it's the only good or interesting thing he's got going for him.

I would've made a crack about how Bill Gates was richer than God and couldn't afford than God, but Warren *does* have the pretty boy thingy going on for him.

Not that it would in any fight outside of a slash fic, but what the hell. :woot:

[quote=Canemacar
Except for banging Husk in mid-flight while her mom watched from the ground below.:woot:[/quote]

The 'banging daughter in front of mommy' angle was cool, but, huh, in MID-AIR??? The 'impossible' factor kinda takes away some of the cool. :wow:

[Canemacar]

The 'banging daughter in front of mommy' angle was cool, but, huh, in MID-AIR??? The 'impossible' factor kinda takes away some of the cool. :wow:

What are you talking about? Warren can flap and thrust at the same time! :wow:

[OutcryX]

Guthrie Kid: Momma! What's he doin' ta Paige?

Ma Guthrie: Payin' her way through college!

lol. damn right! and the rest of the bebe's kids too.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

What are you talking about? Warren can flap and thrust at the same time! :wow:

That fast and precise??? :huh:

I seriously doubt it.

[OutcryX]

That fast and precise??? :huh:

I seriously doubt it.


practice makes perfect. i'm sure paige isnt the first girl he split open in mid air. eww. i'd hate to stand under them, you know, leakage.

[Canemacar]

practice makes perfect. i'm sure paige isnt the first girl he split open in mid air. eww. i'd hate to stand under them, you know, leakage.

Not to mention falling underwear. I'd hate to get hit with Warren's boxers.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

practice makes perfect. i'm sure paige isnt the first girl he split open in mid air. eww.

Split open...??? ROTFLMAO.

That would actually be a rather accurate description, wouldn't it? No way it can be anywhere near gentle in those conditions. :wow:

[Canemacar]

Split open...??? ROTFLMAO.

That would actually be a rather accurate description, wouldn't it? No way it can be anywhere near gentle in those conditions. :wow:

I keep trying not to think about the physics involved, but I can't help it!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I keep trying not to think about the physics involved, but I can't help it!

Wait, didn't you just say it would work just fine???

[Canemacar]

Wait, didn't you just say it would work just fine???

Allowing for such impossibilities as Warren's chest being strong enough to flap the wings hard enough to keep him aloft and not being freakishly large because of it, things *should* be fine. Paige would probably be doing most of the in/out motion though.





I'm getting banned for this, aren't I?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Paige would probably be doing most of the in/out motion though.

Good God I hope so for her sake. And just for the record, it's the *angle* of Warren's general position that had me worried. :wow:

But, yeah, you're right, this one has derailed so much it's not even funny. :woot:

So, issue 199. Yeah.

Ah, Baccalo. How can anyone figure out whatever the hell is happening on panel still a mystery to me. :wow:

[Canemacar]

Good God I hope so for her sake. And just for the record, it's the *angle* of Warren's general position that had me worried. :wow:

Well, since he can't fly on his back, she had better hold on tight during her O.

Ok, I'm done.


Ah, Baccalo. How can anyone figure out whatever the hell is happening on panel still a mystery to me. :wow:

Bachalo and Ramos being the two alternating artists is like having your eyes gouged out with a fork instead of a spoon every other time you read the comic.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Bachalo and Ramos being the two alternating artists is like having your eyes gouged out with a fork instead of a spoon every other time you read the comic.

Eh. Either those guys watched way too much japanese cartoons or its an actual condition. :wow:

[Canemacar]

I'd like to see Andy Kubert try his hand on the title.

[El Bastardo]

I'd like to see Andy Kubert try his hand on the title.

Too bad he's having fun over at DC. I'd like to see it, too.
But Marvel has Ed McG. What, is Ed too busy doing covers to work on a monthly? :whatever: At least he's doing WWH: X-Men covers.

[Havok83]

I'd like to see Andy Kubert try his hand on the title.
I much prefer Adam Kubert's art

[OutcryX]

I prefer Adam to andy and both to Ramos

[Havok83]

I prefer Adam to andy and both to Ramos
ditto. Id take almost anyone over Ramos. Both Kubert brothers are better than him.

[OutcryX]

ditto. Id take almost anyone over Ramos. Both Kubert brothers are better than him.


damn. i wish they would get Pacheco back on the X-men

[Havok83]

damn. i wish they would get Pacheco back on the X-men
man he was the artist that was drawing when I picked up the books (#70) and I friggin loved his art. He was my absolute favorite and I went back and bought all his previous issues

[El Bastardo]

I loved MAD!'s X-Men work. I want Joe Mad back on X-Men, not damn Ultimates 3. I want Joe Mad X-Men. :csad:

Knowing both he and Ed McGuiness are working with Marvel again and neither are on X-Men books is, like, slow, slow, slow, sloooooooow torture.

[Colossal Spoons]

I'd love Joe back on an X-book.

[OutcryX]

I loved MAD!'s X-Men work. I want Joe Mad back on X-Men, not damn Ultimates 3. I want Joe Mad X-Men. :csad:

Knowing both he and Ed McGuiness are working with Marvel again and neither are on X-Men books is, like, slow, slow, slow, sloooooooow torture.

Ed McGuiness?? he did Deadpool right?

MAD was awesome. I am not sure who i like more though, MAD or Pacheco.

and what happened to the self owend stuff all these people (MAD, Ramos, Liefield) were doing? i guess a garanteed check sonds better after not eating for a year or two.

[Snikt 6]

MAD was awesome and so was Pacheco. I really liked Bachalo's early stuff also.

I love what Carey's doing with Rogue, can't wait to see what he has in store next........just a few more weeks!

[squeekness]

I am looking forward to having Gambit back again, even if he is a bad guy. :)

[Snikt 6]

^Not a huge Gambit fan - but I would rather him come back as a hero. I trust Carey though - I think it will all work out in the end.

[OutcryX]

Something is telling me that Sunfire is really going to enjoy being a bad guy. he has been forever portrayed ad an ass hole and questionable as far as his hero status. Me thinks the two characters from the Marauders that turn will be Gambit(of course) and Karima.

[usagicassidy]

Eh. I could care less about Sunfire at this point.

[Harlekin]

Something is telling me that Sunfire is really going to enjoy being a bad guy. he has been forever portrayed ad an ass hole and questionable as far as his hero status. Me thinks the two characters from the Marauders that turn will be Gambit(of course) and Karima.
That's not entirely true. Yes, he's been arrogant for all of his existence, but one thing that has never been in question is his role as a hero. Shiro is very much an honor bound man, and except for his first appearance (in which he redeemed himself almost immediately), he's been a hero always and always.

[Havok83]

I really wish Sunfire was using the new costume he had in BoA bc I preferred that one to the AOA look. I hope he still has it and it does get used

[Snikt 6]

Eh. I could care less about Sunfire at this point.

Same here.....yawn

[OutcryX]

Sunfire is the bee's knees....with the AoA look.

[Snikt 6]

^Yeah. That look really was amazing.

[OutcryX]

I really wish Sunfire was using the new costume he had in BoA bc I preferred that one to the AOA look. I hope he still has it and it does get used


you must mean before he was changed into a horseman (three x-men as horsemen at one time. thats a record)

because the AoA look is the look Sunfire had for BoA, no?

[El Bastardo]

you must mean before he was changed into a horseman (three x-men as horsemen at one time. thats a record)

because the AoA look is the look Sunfire had for BoA, no?

No? Yes! Yes!

[Valechan]

No? Yes! Yes!

That sounds like a BDSM session gone wrong...or right... :p

[Havok83]

you must mean before he was changed into a horseman (three x-men as horsemen at one time. thats a record)

because the AoA look is the look Sunfire had for BoA, no?
He had 2 costumes during BoA. The first one was the AoA one and the second one was a brand new one that Larocca created. The AOA look isnt really a costume but more of a look. Maybe he wears the new one and he "flames up" into the AoA look sort of like Human Torch does

[Snikt 6]

^I think thats the case. I wonder if he is the one who dies.....

[OutcryX]

He had 2 costumes during BoA. The first one was the AoA one and the second one was a brand new one that Larocca created. The AOA look isnt really a costume but more of a look. Maybe he wears the new one and he "flames up" into the AoA look sort of like Human Torch does


ahhh. kool. so no charred flesh for Sunfire

[Havok83]

ahhh. kool. so no charred flesh for Sunfire
nope, no charred flesh. Here's the costume I was talking about. This was from X-men 187, his last appearance

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/6173/sunfireboakp0.jpg

[OutcryX]

nope, no charred flesh. Here's the costume I was talking about. This was from X-men 187, his last appearance

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/6173/sunfireboakp0.jpg

hmm...nice costume. i prefer it to his charred flesh look. but it doesnt compare to his 'flame on' AoA look.

[Snikt 6]

^Very true....that has to be his best costume.

[OutcryX]

any spoilers for the current issues?

[Valechan]

Not for a week :p

[Canemacar]

Two weeks actually.

[Rogue's Hand]

The issue will be out in 2 weeks.

[Valechan]

isn't it on the 20th??? 20th is next week

[Canemacar]

27th.

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?date=2007-06-27

[Rogue's Hand]

isn't it on the 20th??? 20th is next week
Nah, like I said, 2 weeks :cwink:

[Snikt 6]

I cant wait ....this is going to be so cool. I love when new arcs like this start......cause even if they dont follow through its still cool waiting for it.

[Colossal Spoons]

At least we get the Endangered Species one-shot next week.

[Cdnmouse]

At least we get the Endangered Species one-shot next week.

Can't wait. I have high hopes for this cross over.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

At least we get the Endangered Species one-shot next week.

You guys do know it'll be all talk and mutants whining about becoming instinct, right? :woot:

[iamlegend]

You guys do know it'll be all talk and mutants whining about becoming instinct, right? :woot:


Yeah, I don't get that whole argument... By complaining their "people" are going extinct the X-Men play right into the racism and seperatism that they're supposed to be fighting against. By worrying about "the mutant race" going extinct they're differentiating themselves from everyone else.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Eh. One of the reasons I still don't know whether or not I should be hyped about the whole thing.

Might be an actual good read, but shouldn't mutants just shrug and say "Oh well"???

[Cdnmouse]

Yeah, I don't get that whole argument... By complaining their "people" are going extinct the X-Men play right into the racism and seperatism that they're supposed to be fighting against. By worrying about "the mutant race" going extinct they're differentiating themselves from everyone else.

Good point but then Marvel couldn't make any money off the cross over haha.

But it should still be a good read even though they are being kind of contradictory.

[iamlegend]

Good point but then Marvel couldn't make any money off the cross over haha.

But it should still be a good read even though they are being kind of contradictory.

Eh. I still think it's going to seem forced.

So there'll be no more people out there with world destroying powers... They'll still be people, you know. It's not like mutants are a race. They're people with powers.

[Specter313]

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/marvelcomics/200709_advance/XMEN203.jpg

X-MEN #203
Written by MIKE CAREY
Pencils & Cover by HUMBERTO RAMOS
As the Xavier Academy reels from Exodus's attack and the Marauders' true goals emerge, the X-Men finally find themselves in a position to take the offensive. But only if Iceman and Cannonball deliberately walk into an ambush from which they may not emerge alive.
FEATURING ENDANGERED SPECIES Chapter 13
Beast's alliance with Dark Beast is put to the test as scientific inquiry turns into cold-blooded murder!
40 PGS./Rated A …$2.99



God, get rid of Ramos already. Lady M's boobs are as big as her head and Sinister's forehead crystal is nowhere near that big.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Thanks for posting it, but that cover is LAAAAME

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

Goddammit, Raven!!! I loved you.:csad:

[OutcryX]

Why in the HELL is Raven a Marauder? So everyone that complained about Rogue's team being nothing but villains was valid in doing so. Sabretooth, Mystique, Karima, and Lady M...all gone over to the dark side. leaving only Cannonball and Iceman. Cable is off tending to his own business again

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

Wow, this makes Rogue look stupid.

[El Bastardo]

Why in the HELL is Raven a Marauder? So everyone that complained about Rogue's team being nothing but villains was valid in doing so. Sabretooth, Mystique, Karima, and Lady M...all gone over to the dark side. leaving only Cannonball and Iceman. Cable is off tending to his own business again

Sabes won't be in X-Men anymore, will he? Cable kinda booted him into the middle of nowhere over in C/D. :woot:

[El Bastardo]

Oh, and I bet it'll turn into something or other where Mystique isn't really a Marauder, but has joined up with them seemingly "evil-like."

Which will get her pissed on by the X-Men, but it's really just her normal manipulative M.O.

[Snikt 6]

Hmmm....Raven going to the dark side...who didnt see that coming? When did Karima go dark? Or what source says that?

Ramos stinks.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

It's not that we didn't see it coming, it's just that some of us didn't want for it to hap pen.

[Snikt 6]

Yeah, I feel ya. I kinda like her better on the other side though.

[Xplicit Content]

Well, one of these defections could have something to do with Malice. She has to be one of those characters...maybe Lady M? But she seems like the type who wouldn't need too much help going over to the other side. I notice Mystique wasn't on the Marauder cover for 200...Emma was though. Maybe Malice initially takes over Emma and ends up in Mystique when it's all said and done? Then again, Vertigo isn't on that cover either...as isn't a few other characters on the 200 cover like Gambit, Sunfire and Karima.

Lady M actually grew on me as an X-Man.

[OutcryX]

I prefer karima...i think she is the one that gets possesed as she was never 'evil' unlike Mystique and Lady M....and Emma...but Emma has been a tough as nails good guy for over a decade now...so she no longer qualifies as evil

[iamlegend]

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/marvelcomics/200709_advance/XMEN203.jpg


X-MEN #203
Written by MIKE CAREY
Pencils & Cover by HUMBERTO RAMOS
As the Xavier Academy reels from Exodus's attack and the Marauders' true goals emerge, the X-Men finally find themselves in a position to take the offensive. But only if Iceman and Cannonball deliberately walk into an ambush from which they may not emerge alive.
FEATURING ENDANGERED SPECIES Chapter 13
Beast's alliance with Dark Beast is put to the test as scientific inquiry turns into cold-blooded murder!
40 PGS./Rated A …$2.99



God, get rid of Ramos already. Lady M's boobs are as big as her head and Sinister's forehead crystal is nowhere near that big.


Wait, is it just me, or is Gambit already absent from a group shot featuing the Marauders? Wonder what happens to him from 200-202?

[OutcryX]

he and karima rejoin the good guys..along with Sunfire

[Nature's Rising]

It hapepend during the 12 storyline. When the X-men were trying to bring Wolverine back after he was turned into Death, tehy succeeded but it reawakened something in Warren and he had these light energy wings. He could shoot energy darts from them, he could grow his fingers into talons for attacking and the wings had healing properties. In the end he gave up this power to heal Abraham Kieros, one of the original horseman. Here are some scans of his powers. Wolverine nearly got his azz kicked

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8518/archangelwings1vv9.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8568/archangelwings1aem0.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7936/archangelwings2pw3.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5499/archangelwings3kw2.jpg

Could Warren fly any gayer?:oldrazz:

I am so in the bandwagon of having Warren's powers upgraded. Flying around and having aerial sex for super powers must suck while fighting the powerful bad guys. Those talons just rock so much...

[OutcryX]

his poses arent explicity meant to be 'gay' but angelic. besides, even if they were gay, so what?

and you are right about the talons..they rocked hard...so did the energy wings. much better than healing blood.

[OutcryX]

even having his regular wings that can shoot off sh_t like the energy wings..and the talons. that would kick ass. regular wings with energy spikes and razor darts like archangel...that's be useful.

[Colossal Spoons]

Sinister with long hair :down:

Dark Beast :up:

[Specter313]

September of 1986 marked the 25th Anniversary of Marvel Comics—all of the covers of their books were graced with a special anniversary border and it seemed like all was good for the inhabitants of the Marvel Universe. Well, maybe not for the X-Men. Uncanny X-Men #211 introduced readers to the Marauders, a mysterious band of evil mutants who were ruthlessly slaughtering hundreds innocent mutants that inhabited the tunnels beneath New York City. Storm, because of her leadership connection to these mutants, the Morlocks, rallied the X-Men to investigate.

Little did Storm know that she would lead the “All New, All Different” cast of the Uncanny X-Men on what a large number of fans historically designate as their last mission together—in effect bringing the initial sparks of ‘The Mutant Massacre’ to a full roaring blaze. The Mutant Massacre was actually the first Marvel event that was run between monthly titles that did not have a central book (like Secret Wars II or Civil War) anchoring all the books together. The success of the Mutant Massacre was not without costs: Nightcrawler, Colossus and Shadowcat were all gravely injured and Angel was crucified in the pages of X-Factor. It was probably the worst time to be a student of Charles Xavier—until now.

How’s that?

June of 2007 is shaping up to be another one of those times. The 200th issue of the Marvel’s X-Men marks the return of the Marauders—who had since become marginalized in continuity since their first raze of the mutant status quo. Little is still known about the Marauders. It is common knowledge that Mr. Sinister is their malevolent benefactor; using the Marauders as a destructive tools in his pursuit of genetic supremacy. It was revealed much later that the X-Man Gambit was the one time organizer of the Marauders and that the previous incarnations of the group had been cloned several times over. Today, Newsarama breaks down the re-emerging team; analyzing their veteran members and speculating on a few of the newer faces that have shown up on the cover of X-Men #200 rendered by Humberto Ramos.


http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/200/XMen200pg00Ramos.jpg

Here is a closer look at the “All New, All Different Marauders”:

The new “Old Regime”

Starting off in the back left, then…

Scalphunter was, at one time, the field leader of the Marauders. He is a mutant “technomorph” capable of shaping mechanical components into various configurations—most notably weaponry. It has been revealed that Scalphunter has incredible regenerative properties that have even brought him back to life. His servitude to Sinister dates back to World War II.

Malice is one of Sinister’s most deadly associates. She is a disambiguated psychic entity that inhabits the sub-consciousness of her host. At one time, she inhabited the body of Polaris and was later seemingly destroyed by Sinister for disobeying orders. Mike Carey, writer of X-Men, has hinted that Malice will be different in her newest incarnation—possibly infecting Karima Shandapar, the Omega Sentinel.

Vertigo (in green) was originally a member of Magneto’s Savage Land Mutates. Her power of inducing sensations of vertigo in her victims has been crucial in the Marauders effectiveness in battle.

Arclight is an incredibly strong mutant with the ability to cause seismic tremors that amply her strength. She has been romantically connected to Scalphunter. It has been alluded to that she is veteran of the Viet Nam war.

Riptide (on the ground) is mutant who can bizarrely twist his body at inhuman speeds and hurtle sharpened projectiles from his body made of a resin secreted from his skin. He apparently has one of the most rancid personalities of the whole group. He was also the first member “to die” at the hands of Colossus.

Harpoon (in the back, with the harpoon) is deadly energy wielding mutant that imbues harpoons with various forms of energy that he then throws at his victims. He is connected to the first “death” of Madeline Pryor, Angel’s crucifixion, and Shadowcat’s injuries.

Little is known about Prism, he survived the Scarlet Witch’s eradication of mutants during the House of M but he usually isn’t around for very long due to his fragile body structure. He is capable of refracting energy with his body.

The “Questionable” new members:

Okay – breaking this down…Gambit returned to the fold at the end of Peter Milligan’s run on X-Men. Remy LeBeau had been transformed into the fourth horseman of Apocalypse, Death. Unable to obey Apocalypse and unable to return to the X-Men after betraying them, Gambit, along with fellow X-Man, Sunfire, found themselves striking a Faustian deal with Sinister—in the hopes of shaking Apocalypse’s vestments. Will Gambit’s love for Rogue bring him back to the X-Men?

Sunfire (in flames, flying) had also fallen to Apocalypse after the loss of his legs to Lady Deathstrike and his mutant abilities to Rogue. He had been transformed into Famine, another Horseman of Apocalypse. He still apparently maintains the look of Famine as a new member of the Marauders. Mike Carey has hinted that someone’s powers fail them when they need them most—could Sunfire regain his lost abilities from Rogue?

Once a member of X-Factor, Random (purple-ish, big guy) now resides with the Marauders under mysterious pretenses. In the past, Random has sold his services to the highest bidder—do the ends justify the means with his inclusion into this deadly group?

Lady Mastermind (blond, with arms out) is set to “find some relief” in her connection to the Marauders. Her villainous ways have apparently gotten the better of her. She never seemed to fit in with the other X-Men—constantly finding herself at odds with various members of the team. Was she one of several “plants” within the X-Men?

The Omega Sentinel (middle, hair in twin ponytails) has been linked to Malice as an apparent new host. Armed to the teeth with weaponry and an array of anti-mutant technology and coupled with Malice’s despicably cruel persona, she just may prove to be one of the most deadly additions to the group. How does Malice get her hands on Karima?

Fresh off his appearance this spring in the X-Men Annual, Exodus (re-faced guy towards the back) was last seen bowing to Sinister. Is Exodus using Sinister as a means to an end—believing that Sinister can solve the dilemma of the mutant race being on the verge of extinction? As powerful as Exodus has been portrayed in the past, are the Marauders setting themselves up to backfire at the hands of this unpredictable mutant? If he is properly aligned with the Marauders, how can they fail with his supreme power in their midst?

The only remaining member is the blonde in the middle—who bears a terrible amount of resemblance to Emma Frost. In the pages of Astonishing X-Men, Emma has been answering to an unseen presence. Could readers have been misled by both Joss Whedon and Mike Carey into thinking the unseen source was Cassandra Nova and the Hellfire Club—or has it been the Marauders this whole time? Could Emma be acting as a ‘double agent’? Could she be serving her own manipulative plans—typical to the status quo of her character? Will she be one of the two characters that will turn and rejoin the X-Men? Time will tell…

Undoubtedly, the X-Men’s odds of surviving an attack from the Marauders are dwindling by the second. The first steps towards this monumental battle take place in X-Men: Endangered Species #1 on sale June 20th with the actual full-blown assault beginning on June 27th in X-Men #200.

[Colossal Spoons]

^Thanks Spec :up:

[Specter313]

^Thanks Spec :up:

I saw someone say something about some of the Marauders going over to the X-Men, and I remember this article said that two members would jump back to the X-Men and that I never got around to putting this up.

[Colossal Spoons]

I saw someone say something about some of the Marauders going over to the X-Men, and I remember this article said that two members would jump back to the X-Men and that I never got around to putting this up.

I actually hope it's the predictable duo of Gambit and Sunfire. I think Karima would make an awesome permanent X-Man but I miss those 2 more.

[Specter313]

Something tells me Sunfire won't be going good again any time soon. Gambit though I'm sure is probably one of them.

[Colossal Spoons]

:(

I miss Sunfire waay more than Gambit too.

[Havok83]

even having his regular wings that can shoot off sh_t like the energy wings..and the talons. that would kick ass. regular wings with energy spikes and razor darts like archangel...that's be useful.
I deifnetly agree. I hated that it only lasted one issue

[OutcryX]

I miss Sunfire waaaay more than gambit as well ( i am sooo loving his AoA look, damn, its being wasted as a villain) I want Karima back as an X-Man dammit. I am thinking that she will shake the influence of Malice...and rejoin the X-men. she wont count as two marauders going over to the X-Men because well, she never joined to begin with, she was possessed.

Gambit and Emma will come back...even though i wish Sunfire would be the other. Emma could go bad again. i'd care less...plus it would make her and Scott's relationship soo much more interesting....it could also play apart in Cyclops stepping up for the crossover...because all this time Emma has been playin him and he wants some revenge!!!

[MattXG]

Wait, is it just me, or is Gambit already absent from a group shot featuing the Marauders? Wonder what happens to him from 200-202?
He dies.:wow:












Jk. Or am I....:huh:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Gambit and Emma will come back...even though i wish Sunfire would be the other. Emma could go bad again. i'd care less...plus it would make her and Scott's relationship soo much more interesting....it could also play apart in Cyclops stepping up for the crossover...because all this time Emma has been playin him and he wants some revenge!!!
Gotta say, Cyke's "part" in this year's late events is one hell of a mystery.

Guy's pretty much been the A-lister's who's gotten abused the most over the past ten years (AKA b*tch) and all of a sudden he does something huge?? :wow:

[OutcryX]

Gotta say, Cyke's "part" in this year's late events is one hell of a mystery.

Guy's pretty much been the A-lister's who's gotten abused the most over the past ten years (AKA b*tch) and all of a sudden he does something huge?? :wow:

unless that something *huge* is dying. Then he *leads* everyone by all the other heroes uniting behind his death and fighting in his honor. which would suck

[El Bastardo]

At least then we could call 2007 Marvel's "Year of Killing Leaders."

[Canemacar]

At least then we could call 2007 Marvel's "Year of Killing Leaders."

Dear Marvel: Don't forget Rogue!

[Colossal Spoons]

Yes, please!

*prays*

[iamlegend]

Something tells me Sunfire won't be going good again any time soon. Gambit though I'm sure is probably one of them.


Well, like I pointed out earlier... Neither is on the cover of 203, which features a large number of Marauders...

[OutcryX]

Covers don't really mean anything. people read waaay much into them

[Nature's Rising]

Wow and now it seems like Marvel is sticking to dead is dead part. Killing someone might be a kiss of goodbye.

[iamlegend]

Wow and now it seems like Marvel is sticking to dead is dead part. Killing someone might be a kiss of goodbye.

Sure...

Marvel might claim that "dead is dead" but that doesn't mean they won't RETCON a "death" and bring a character back. It's the ultimate loophole.

[aaron]

judging by the cover for 203 is it? (of the marauders) id say remy's back to the x-men or at least not with the marauders by then.

[bengan]

God I hate ramos. Why is there a starfish in Mr.Sinisters face? Or is it some kind of fashion to have uggly, out of proportion wierd things on their body?

[anyjus]

Why is Mystique standing with the Marauders?