Official X-MEN: LEGACY Discussion Thread

[Varient]

Beak comes to mind.

Actually "Beak" was slated to be a better "angel" once he grew into his mutation,...

Ah well.

[Manic]

Actually "Beak" was slated to be a better "angel" once he grew into his mutation,...

Ah well.
Say what?

[Varient]

Say what?

There was a future history story.
It had Beak with a serious wingspan and sharp claws.
And instead of looking like a cooked chickenhead,.. he looked more like a Hawk.

[Manic]

Are you talking about 'Here Comes Tomorrow'? Because that was Beak's son or grandson. If not, where the hell was this badass Beak from?

[Varient]

Are you talking about 'Here Comes Tomorrow'? Because that was Beak's son or grandson. If not, where the hell was this badass Beak from?

Couldn't tell you what it was called,... about four years ago written,... It could even be as you say.

Did he use a bat?

[Manic]

Yep, he used a bat. Were the Stepford girls there? Cassandra Nova as a good guy? Wolverine still alive? Beast evil with white fur? Phoenix with fire skin and a skimpy black outfit, popping out of an egg?

If so, that was 'Here Comes Tomorrow.' The Beak you saw was one of Beak and Angel Salvadore's kids.

[OutcryX]

Damn..Here Comes Tomorrow sounds baddarsed

[Manic]

It was the last arc in Grant Morrison's run. It ended with Phoenix projecting her consciousness back in time to force Scott to stay with Emma and reopen the school together so the X-Men won't fall apart, and that future would never come to pass. Did no one read it?

[Havok83]

It was the last arc in Grant Morrison's run. It ended with Phoenix projecting her consciousness back in time to force Scott to stay with Emma and reopen the school together so the X-Men won't fall apart, and that future would never come to pass. Did no one read it?
Jean did NOT force Scott to stay with Emma. After she died, he gave up on life. He gave up on the school and he gave up on Xavier's dream. That decision led to the dark events which became HCT. Jean emerged from the Phoenix egg, saw that the world was wrong and decided to fix it by going back to the point in time where things went off track. She urged Scott to live. All he had to do was stay with the X-men and continue on teaching and leading and things would have been fine. He did not have to go to Emma. That was his choice, his decision, not Jean's. She's not responsible for this freak mess

[Manic]

Yes, she is. Emma was propositioning Scott for two things at the same time: come back to her, and come back to the school. He turned down both at the same time, and the future went to crap. Jean went back in time to give Scott a push ("force" being the wrong word, I guess) to stay with the school. That pushed just happened to be at the same time when Emma was asking to jump his bones. When Jean's involvement gave Scott the urge to move on with his life, it also convinced him a relationship with Emma was worth the trouble.

If Jean hadn't gone back in time to push Scott into reopening the school, he never would've stayed with Emma. Jean is responsible for Scott and Emma's whacked out relationship.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

It's really not a bad relationship though. I hate to say this, but being in a relationship sometimes makes females weak. (males too) Jrean was a very weak character when she was with or about scott. Emma is still a very strong female and I like that. I said it some years ago, too, that Jean and Scott relationship only added up to "Jean!" "Scott!" because one of them was always in trouble. The only time scott or emma says the others names in a scream is when they're having sex.

[Specter313]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_cov.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=1)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_pg2.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=3)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_pg3.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=4)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_pg4.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=5)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_pg5.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=6)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_pg6.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=7)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/260/prv260_pg7.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=260&pg=8)

Sins of the Father, part 1 of 3. Professor X is trying to rebuild memories of his past using other people's minds. But the past is coming back to haunt him in another way, as a swathe of tragic deaths turns out to be linked by only one factor: Brian Xavier, the Professor's long-dead father. And solving the mystery means paying a visit to the Hellfire Club...

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

If Jean hadn't gone back in time to push Scott into reopening the school, he never would've stayed with Emma. Jean is responsible for Scott and Emma's whacked out relationship.

As far as we know 'Live, Scott' could've meant she wanted him to get a hobby. Like knitting or pottery. Or something.

Hell, maybe she meant for him to move on with Wolvie. Sure would explain all the scenes we've had in the past year. Or at the very least why Wolvie keeps talking about Cyke's stones.

[Manic]

As far as we know 'Live, Scott' could've meant she wanted him to get a hobby. Like knitting or pottery. Or something.

Hell, maybe she meant for him to move on with Wolvie. Sure would explain all the scenes we've had in the past year. Or at the very least why Wolvie keeps talking about Cyke's stones.
She went back in time and told Scott to live at the exact moment where Emma was propositioning him. Even if it wasn't intentional, she caused the relationship to happen.

[Havok83]

As far as we know 'Live, Scott' could've meant she wanted him to get a hobby. Like knitting or pottery. Or something.

Hell, maybe she meant for him to move on with Wolvie. Sure would explain all the scenes we've had in the past year. Or at the very least why Wolvie keeps talking about Cyke's stones.
We dont agree on alot of things but IA with you on that.

[Colossal Spoons]

Somebody get some clothes on Colossus :o

Glad to see Juggernaut again though :D

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

She went back in time and told Scott to live at the exact moment where Emma was propositioning him. Even if it wasn't intentional, she caused the relationship to happen.

Caused it, sure. Forced it, no.

But, hey, I suppose you did back down a bit from your original choice of words.

Somebody get some clothes on Colossus :o

Thematically appropriate considering who he's sharing that page with, no?

[Manic]

I said several posts up that "force" was the wrong word.

[El Bastardo]

Manic is correct. It's called subtext and/or under-the-surface intentions. "Close-reading," if you will.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I said several posts up that "force" was the wrong word.

Isn't that *exactly* what I said...?

The subtext of my post was that it seemed half-hearted for a while. I wasn't guessing whether or not it had been done.

[OutcryX]

at the end of the day, none of it matters. Jean is worm food and Scott is giving Emma the business

[Canemacar]

It amuses me how Carey levels all these past misdeeds and short-coming at xavier, but instead of having him confront, answer for, or acknowledge the guilt he bears, carey just has Xavier say "They don't count anymore because I said so."

[Manic]

I'd say that's a change of pace. Xavier has been bombarded with his tragic mistakes in recent years. Deadly Genesis was the worst of them all. I was getting tired of Xavier being confronted with a horrible misdeed from his past, him getting all self-pity guilt-ridden about it, followed by the X-Men helping him fight off the mistake before it kills him.

Now he's on his own and doesn't have any emotional attachment to what remains of his memories. Without the guilt, if someone from his past tried to get in his face, he'll kick their ass. This should make his upcoming confrontation with Vulcan pretty interesting, as Xavier will (for once) not care that he screwed up the brat's life.

[Specter313]

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week008/XMEN212_bwCOV_COLv1.jpg

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week008/XMEN212005_col%20copy.jpg

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week008/XMEN212017scolC%20copy.jpg

[Canemacar]

Could you make those a bit bigger please? I can barely see whats going on.

[Colossal Spoons]

That cover is interesting. Colossus looks bloated lol. Huge though :up:

[El Bastardo]

Yeah, I just cropped that so the Cyclops blast and Wolverine charge (and Banshee's floating there like a stupid wraith, but oh well) is my desktop.

Customized 1440 by 900 ftw!

[OutcryX]

ftw...for the win...or **** the world?

[Canemacar]

ftw...for the win...or **** the world?

Depends on my mood.

[Midnyte_Sun]

I have a question about the Messiah Complex and I was wondering if somebody could explain it. For one I haven't read an X-Men crossover comic since the Phalanx Covenant so I"ll need some updating:


1. When Layla kills Madrox, she says, I'm Layla Madrox...is she his sister or wife?

2. One of the mutant bloaks who gets it is this guy who can shoot fire from his mouth...is that the Generation X mutant Chamber? Did he somehow get control of his fire?

3. Is Lady Deathstryke dead? Where's Jean Grey? Are there more of those Monster Mutant eaters? Where's Havoc?

[Manic]

I have a question about the Messiah Complex and I was wondering if somebody could explain it. For one I haven't read an X-Men crossover comic since the Phalanx Covenant so I"ll need some updating:


1. When Layla kills Madrox, she says, I'm Layla Madrox...is she his sister or wife?

2. One of the mutant bloaks who gets it is this guy who can shoot fire from his mouth...is that the Generation X mutant Chamber? Did he somehow get control of his fire?

3. Is Lady Deathstryke dead? Where's Jean Grey? Are there more of those Monster Mutant eaters? Where's Havoc?

Okay, let me take a crack at this...


1. Layla can see the future. Or rather, she can see multiple possible futures. In one of those futures, she ends up marrying Jamie Madrox, meaning she would've been Layla Madrox one day. And, you know, she has a schoolgirl crush on him right now.

2. I'm not sure who you're talking about. Which part of Messiah Complex did this happen in? Also, I'm sure it wasn't Chamber. I hear he's a member of the New Warriors, along with Jubilee.

3. Wolverine's little sister X-23 killed Lady Deathstrike. She's dead.

Jean Grey-Summers was killed a couple of years ago by a drug-addled mutant named Xorn who posed as Magneto. She's currently bonded with the Phoenix Force in the afterlife, putting herself together so that she might return God-Only-Knowns-When.

As far as I know, there was only one Predator X.

Havok is in space, along with Polaris and Rachel Summers. Cyclops and Havok's long lost brother, Vulcan (Gabriel Summers), has taken over the Shi'ar Empire, leaving Lilandra an outlaw. Havok, Polaris, Rachel, and a few other rag tag space pirates attempted to dethrone Vulcan and put Lilandra back in power. They failed. Lilandra and Rachel are on the run. Havok and Polaris are prisoners of the Shi'ar Empire.

[cerealkiller182]

im pretty sure the kid who breathed fire was a "redshirt" mutant used to show Predator X in action

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

I did not know the issue was coming out today. I was pissed.

[K4tzm4n]

Loved the last pannel of Legacy 211....Question: My cover has Jean as a skrull, how rare are those?

[Midnyte_Sun]

Okay, let me take a crack at this...


1. Layla can see the future. Or rather, she can see multiple possible futures. In one of those futures, she ends up marrying Jamie Madrox, meaning she would've been Layla Madrox one day. And, you know, she has a schoolgirl crush on him right now.

2. I'm not sure who you're talking about. Which part of Messiah Complex did this happen in? Also, I'm sure it wasn't Chamber. I hear he's a member of the New Warriors, along with Jubilee.

3. Wolverine's little sister X-23 killed Lady Deathstrike. She's dead.

Jean Grey-Summers was killed a couple of years ago by a drug-addled mutant named Xorn who posed as Magneto. She's currently bonded with the Phoenix Force in the afterlife, putting herself together so that she might return God-Only-Knowns-When.

As far as I know, there was only one Predator X.

Havok is in space, along with Polaris and Rachel Summers. Cyclops and Havok's long lost brother, Vulcan (Gabriel Summers), has taken over the Shi'ar Empire, leaving Lilandra an outlaw. Havok, Polaris, Rachel, and a few other rag tag space pirates attempted to dethrone Vulcan and put Lilandra back in power. They failed. Lilandra and Rachel are on the run. Havok and Polaris are prisoners of the Shi'ar Empire.

OK thanks for the info! I always though Lady Deathstryke had super healing ability like Wolverine...but oh well. So is Scott and The White Queen together now?

[UraniaChang]

Yes.

[Manic]

OK thanks for the info! I always though Lady Deathstryke had super healing ability like Wolverine...but oh well. So is Scott and The White Queen together now?
Well, Deathstrike is a cyborg. X-23 caught her with her guard down, took out her healing implants first, and finished her off.

Yep. Scott and the White Queen. Kinda weird when you consider Emma is the one who turned Jean into the Dark Phoenix.

[squeekness]

I don't like Scott with Emma. :( I think Emma's a snot.

[OutcryX]

X-23 is Wolverine's kid sister? more like cloned daughter...but technically when u mix his DNA with the mother's DNA..she wouldn't be his clone..just his daughter...no?

[squeekness]

I don't know that her DNA was blended with her mother, I thought that the mother had just made a better surrogate. And yeah, I think of X-23 as a clone more than a daughter.

[Canemacar]

They made the Finch Legacy covers into a poster.

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.3611.First_Look~colon~_Finch~apos~s_L egacy

[Manic]

Wolverine introduced X-23 to the New X-Men as his little sister Laura. He considers her his sister. I'm running with that.

Also, she's got 100% Wolvie DNA. It involves something about not being able to use Wolverine's Y chromosome, and having to double-up on the X chromosomes, and the clone coming out female. Anyway, Laura's mom just carried the clone-fetus in the womb. Genetically, since Logan and Laura technically have the same parent DNA pairing, she's more like a little sister than a daughter.

[OutcryX]

Laura, Daken...anymore relatives of Logan to pop up anytime soon?

[Manic]

Don't forget Rachel. Allegedly.

[OutcryX]

who da hell is Rachel?

[Havok83]

Wolverine introduced X-23 to the New X-Men as his little sister Laura. He considers her his sister. I'm running with that.

Also, she's got 100% Wolvie DNA. It involves something about not being able to use Wolverine's Y chromosome, and having to double-up on the X chromosomes, and the clone coming out female. Anyway, Laura's mom just carried the clone-fetus in the womb. Genetically, since Logan and Laura technically have the same parent DNA pairing, she's more like a little sister than a daughter.
You are right, X-23 would be more like a sister. Twins are the only people with the same DNA. A clone would be like a genetic twin, which would make them siblings. But I can also see the argument for people considering her a daughter. In the Metal Gear series, the clones of Big Boss are considered his sons

Laura, Daken...anymore relatives of Logan to pop up anytime soon?Theres his daughter Amiko

[Valechan]

adopted daughter "adopted" (listen with Homer Simpson's voice)

[Manic]

who da hell is Rachel?
Rachel Summers. I remember hearing rumors through the fan-grapevine that Ray might not be Scott's.

[Havok83]

I hated the current issue. It was too boring. It was the weakest of the series for me so far. I miss the "team" aspect that we had with the Acolytes. Focusing solely on Xavier did nothing for me

Rachel Summers. I remember hearing rumors through the fan-grapevine that Ray might not be Scott's.
Rachel is not Wolverine's. She's an AR Scott's child. Rumors are just that...rumors. Theres been nothing in the books to suggest otherwise, although I did read that CC once considered making her the child of Phoenix with no male father, but that never made it into writing

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Rachel Summers. I remember hearing rumors through the fan-grapevine that Ray might not be Scott's.

They should've just gone with it.

At least Cyke could've washed his hands off from the walking disaster that is Rach.

Kinda like he's being doing most of the time, but at least he'd have a better reason than just not liking the brat that much. :woot:

[iamlegend]

They should've just gone with it.

At least Cyke could've washed his hands off from the walking disaster that is Rach.

Kinda like he's being doing most of the time, but at least he'd have a better reason than just not liking the brat that much. :woot:

I say we just make Cyke related to everyone that's ever been an X-Man. It'd just be so much easier to figure this stuff out then.

[OutcryX]

I think my head would explode with there actually being living proof that Jean was penetrated at least once by Wolverine...that is just vomit inducing

[Valechan]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that phrase is vomit inducing...

[Canemacar]

Can we cut the wolverine penetration talk, please?

[UraniaChang]

They should've just gone with it.

At least Cyke could've washed his hands off from the walking disaster that is Rach.

Kinda like he's being doing most of the time, but at least he'd have a better reason than just not liking the brat that much. :woot:

Ah, but I do like Rachel in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.

[Havok83]

Ah, but I do like Rachel in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.
I liked Rachel when she returned in the pages of Cable. Weinberg had a good feel for her and gave her a good restart, but then CC got his hands on her again and she got super annoying, even more so than when he first brought her to the X-men in the 80s

[Manic]

Brubaker and Yost haven't done bad jobs with her, either. Then again, Yost is the only writer in years to portray Lorna as definitively sane again. Maybe it's just common sense.

[jmc247]

Brubaker and Yost haven't done bad jobs with her, either. Then again, Yost is the only writer in years to portray Lorna as definitively sane again. Maybe it's just common sense.

She was made so 'definately sane' by the likes of Brubaker and Milligan during their runs with the character that her character and her personality was completely flat and could have been litterly anyone. She was emotionally fragile in way very different from the one Austen developed for her in first few eps of Milligan's first arc and that was it.

If anything Yost gave her some of her edge back that she had in 2004 as a character with Lorna killing thousands of Shi'ar and blowing up one of their destoryers as well as talking about killing the entire Imperial Guard. Expect Lorna to be much more violent and angry after they are broken out or break out of their torture chamber.

What Lorna needs is a well written and consistant personality that doesn't shift 180 degrees from writer to writer. She also needs the pannel time to develop real relationships beyond only Havok and Bobby. That is what she is lacking.

[Manic]

Milligan just made Lorna a different kind of insane than Austen's portrayal. Everything from constantly crying to refusing to talk to anyone... it was annoying as hell. I never did bother finding out what Lorna saw in "What Lorna Saw." I hear it was just Doop that freaked her out so much. Doop.

Anyway, I will agree that she was sane under Brubaker's pen, but I barely remember her doing anything in the story after the Warskrulls attacked them on the space station.

[Specter313]

It was towards the end of Milligans run, after she was released from Apocalypse's control, that she finally became sane. It was in one of his last couple issues, after Gambit and Sunfire tried to take her from the X-Men, that she attacked them back and said that she felt more like herself than she had in years.

[Havok83]

Milligan just made Lorna a different kind of insane than Austen's portrayal. Everything from constantly crying to refusing to talk to anyone... it was annoying as hell. I never did bother finding out what Lorna saw in "What Lorna Saw." I hear it was just Doop that freaked her out so much. Doop.

Anyway, I will agree that she was sane under Brubaker's pen, but I barely remember her doing anything in the story after the Warskrulls attacked them on the space station.
it wasnt Doop. It was Daap, which was equally as ridiculous

[spark627]

Yea, the Daap story was retarded. I basically ignore everything Mlligan wrote in X-Men, his entire run was awful.

[OutcryX]

the fact that there was more than one Doop-type creature alone should get Milligan banned from ever touching another comic again

[Manic]

My god, you mean there was a creature resembling but distinct from Doop? Seriously? A second Doop-thingy, and they named it Daap? At least when they introduced a dragon resembling Lockheed, they had the decency to not name it Lackhuud.

[Valechan]

I did enjoy Milligan's Bizarre Love Triangle, if only because I love Love Triangles and this one was far too weird, it was more than interesting.

[spark627]

I love how the "What Lorna Saw" story was hyped and it was such a let down. Why on earth would Daap frighten her so much that she began talking to herself? Everything Milligan did in X-Men was crap, he had multiple love traingles (Lorna/Havok/Iceman, Gambit/Rogue/Foxx) and they all sucked. His Apocolypse arc blew it too.

[jmc247]

Milligan just made Lorna a different kind of insane than Austen's portrayal. Everything from constantly crying to refusing to talk to anyone... it was annoying as hell.

He turned her into the stereotypical PTSD sufferer. She wasn't insane, but I agree it was annoying as hell. While it would be the more likely thing someone that went through a genocide to do then what Morrison and Austen did, it was not interesting and quite annoying.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/polarisiceman.jpg

[Manic]

I did enjoy Milligan's Bizarre Love Triangle, if only because I love Love Triangles and this one was far too weird, it was more than interesting.
For me, that was the worst offender. A story about Mystique infiltrating the school with the sole purpose of setting her daughter up with a nice mensch who can touch her? Bah!

[Havok83]

I thought Golgotha was decent while reading it but the ending was such a letdown. It was downhill from there

[Specter313]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/200808-advance/XMEN215_cov.jpg


X-MEN: LEGACY #215
Written by MIKE CAREY
Penciled by SCOT EATON
Cover by KEN LASHLEY
With some of his oldest ghosts finally laid to rest, Charles Xavier feels the need to make peace with the X-Men who've been most important in his life. But starting with Scott Summers may have been a mistake - particularly when he decides to re-awaken some of Cyclops's worst nightmares against his will.
32 PGS./Rated A …$2.99

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Freakin love that cover.

Should be an awesome issue.

I mean, they initially wanted Chuck to backhand Cyke in MC, right? About time to let those two go for therapeutic violence. :D

[OutcryX]

oh ****...yet another long forgotten memory that is doomed to change the nature of their relationship forever...

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

They didn't say anything about a new memory.

[OutcryX]

hence i didnt use the word 'new'...u are slacking

[Havok83]

That cover reminds me of the Messiah Complex oneshot

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

hence i didnt use the word 'new'...u are slacking

Well, long-forgotten meant it would basically be new to us and Cyke, right? :huh:

[OutcryX]

no. you are completely wrong. so...yeah

[UraniaChang]

X-MEN: LEGACY #215
Written by MIKE CAREY
Penciled by SCOT EATON
Cover by KEN LASHLEY
With some of his oldest ghosts finally laid to rest, Charles Xavier feels the need to make peace with the X-Men who've been most important in his life. But starting with Scott Summers may have been a mistake - particularly when he decides to re-awaken some of Cyclops's worst nightmares against his will.
32 PGS./Rated A …$2.99

I'll pick up this issue, but does Xavier count ''re-awaken some of Cyclops's worst nightmares against his will'' as a peace offer?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

no. you are completely wrong. so...yeah

I have no idea what you're going for here, lol.

oh ****...yet another long forgotten memory that is doomed to change the nature of their relationship forever...

No idea why you'd object to me referring to it as a 'new' memory...?

[OutcryX]

sarcasm. and still. i never said new. it could very well be a memory that has been talked about once or not at all (like that throwaway 'brothers' line) or one from last issue. i mean its nothing to write home about, but Carey will at least make it interesting

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

sarcasm. and still. i never said new. it could very well be a memory that has been talked about once or not at all (like that throwaway 'brothers' line) or one from last issue. i mean its nothing to write home about, but Carey will at least make it interesting

In that sense, sure, there are possibilities.

Chuck: "Remember that time Betsy licked motor oil off your face?"

Cyke: "Wait, what? How would you even...? And how does that qualify as a traumatic..."

Chuck: "I was watching. Psychically. Hot. Really hot."

Cyke: "OMG, you creep! How the hell does that qualify as a bloody olive branch?"

Chuck: "Hot ninja babe. Surely we can bond over that. No?"

[OutcryX]

See!?!?! Now you understand!

and yes...that would be most traumatic

[tank girl]

they have sex in this issue right?

[Valechan]

I don't if they do have sex, but they might "remember" the good old times when he was just a young kid who slept alone with Charles in that big old spooky mansion... reminds me of a certain dark knight and his young teenage lover :p

[OutcryX]

Daddy and his boy

[Canemacar]

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=324&disp=table

Legacy 212 previews.

[Valechan]

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_pg5.jpg

Be still my heart!!!! Xavier telling Cyclops that his role as leader is dissapointing... I could die hapy now :D

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

I wonder if that's in canon or if it's another messed up memory.

[OutcryX]

so this is the long forgotten memory..why i dont remember it at all...would that make it new?

[Valechan]

It's from the Shattering dudes!!! right before the Twelve!!! I bet that's when he asked Gambit to get Sinister's doohickey to find out who was a skrull... (which we all saw in Gambit 8-9 of his old mag)

[Harlekin]

That's canon. It happened just before the Twelve storyline.

[Canemacar]

It's from the Shattering dudes!!! right before the Twelve!!! I bet that's when he asked Gambit to get Sinister's doohickey to find out who was a skrull... (which we all saw in Gambit 8-9 of his old mag)

Thats one of my favorite arcs in the Gambit series. He teams up with Sabertooth, takes down a team of marauders singlehandedly, and cons Sinister out of the device he needs.

It's not everyday the hero impresses Creed with his ruthlessness....

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

That's canon. It happened just before the Twelve storyline.
Oh god, that makes it so awesome then.

[Harlekin]

It was all just a ruse though. Cycke was in on it.

[Havok83]

It's from the Shattering dudes!!! right before the Twelve!!! I bet that's when he asked Gambit to get Sinister's doohickey to find out who was a skrull... (which we all saw in Gambit 8-9 of his old mag)This flashback is messed up bc Gambit wasnt even there. And the only ones who were in costume were Storm and Logan

[Specter313]

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_cov.jpg


http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_pg2.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_pg3.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_pg4.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_pg5.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/324/prv324_pg6.jpg



X-MEN: LEGACY #212
STORY by Mike Carey
ART by Scot Eaton
COLORS by Frank D'armata
COVER by David Finch
PUBLISHER: Marvel Max
COVER PRICE: $2.99
RELEASE DATE: Wed, May 28th, 2008


Sins of the Father, part 2 of 3. Professor X is trying to rebuild memories of his past using other people's minds. But the past is coming back to haunt him in another way, as a swathe of tragic deaths turns out to be linked by only one factor: Brian Xavier, the Professor's long-dead father. And solving the mystery means paying a visit to the Hellfire Club...

[squeekness]

This flashback is messed up bc Gambit wasnt even there. And the only ones who were in costume were Storm and LoganWas this after Gambit got dumped at Antartica? I mean, where was Gambit if he wasn't there....?

[Havok83]

Was this after Gambit got dumped at Antartica? I mean, where was Gambit if he wasn't there....?
The scene is wrong bc Gambit left the mansion on his bike as soon as Scott and Jean came back. He was literally out the door as they were arriving. Xavier ahd that talk with the rest of them after Gambit departed. Here's a pic of the original scene. No Gambit in sight. Carey also changed it to make the Scott/Xavier more hateful than it was as Scott didnt have any animoisty towards Xavier here, but then again Im not surprised since Marvel seems intent on their destruction that relationship

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6024/xmen921jw5.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/6901/xmen92qn9.jpg

[squeekness]

The scene is wrong bc Gambit left the mansion on his bike as soon as Scott and Jean came back. He was literally out the door as they were arriving. Xavier ahd that talk with the rest of them after Gambit departedIt's been so long. I know I have read through my X-mens at least twice, but there are too many issues now for me to remember everything that well. :(

[Havok83]

LOL...that art was so bad on X-men back then. I just noticed an inconsitency. Jean's dress was green in the first pic but somehow changed to blue in the next. She also looks pregnant and Marrow has a gut.

[OutcryX]

I forgot that Marrow had thought that Colossus was 'beautiful'. I think i like them together moreso than Kitty/Colossus

[Colossal Spoons]

Just read 211. Meh

[Havok83]

Just read 211. Meh
worst issue so far. Xavier solo = fail. He is one character that begs for a strong supporting cast

[squeekness]

Hopefully Gambit will help out with that next issue. :D

[Harlekin]

I forgot that Marrow had thought that Colossus was 'beautiful'. I think i like them together moreso than Kitty/Colossus
The other way around, actually. And they had more of a big brother/little sister thing going on. That was a great team of X-Men.

[tank girl]

did marvel employ retards back in the day?

[Colossal Spoons]

Possibly

[Havok83]

did marvel employ retards back in the day?
Alan Davis. The worst thing to happen to the 2 core books in the late 90s. He destroyed them for me. X-men didnt start being great again till Morrison wrote New X-men and UXM didnt start to recover till Brubaker took over.

[OutcryX]

Alan Davis killed it for me as well. actually he is the sole reason i gave up collecting. he really drove me away. I liked Austen...except for the bull**** he said on one of the X-men movies' extras section where he stated that nightcrawler has two penises. i wanted to *****slap him for that. ****ing pervert

[Canemacar]

Austen was fun to read while drunk. Draco might be a horrible story sober, but after three shots, it's ****ing hilarious.

[Harlekin]

I liked the Davis days, but then again, I was like 12/13. They were good old superhero fun.

[UraniaChang]

Alan Davis killed it for me as well. actually he is the sole reason i gave up collecting. he really drove me away. I liked Austen...except for the bull**** he said on one of the X-men movies' extras section where he stated that nightcrawler has two penises. i wanted to *****slap him for that. ****ing pervert

I guess he meant one of them is his tail...but it's still pretty idiotic.

[tank girl]

that art is ridiculously craptacular

[OutcryX]

umm..what art are to referring to? if you mean Alan Davis..then yes i agree

[Havok83]

that wasnt Davis' art. It was his writing. His art however wasnt much better

[OutcryX]

he wrote and drew one of the books..uncanny i want to say..coulda been adjectiveless...the one where Marrow got pretty. ugh. Davis, along with Claremont, Yost, Kyle, Milligan, Morrison and Ellis(you all will realize he sucks soon enough) should be banned from anything X

[Canemacar]

he wrote and drew one of the books..uncanny i want to say..coulda been adjectiveless...the one where Marrow got pretty. ugh. Davis, along with Claremont, Yost, Kyle, Milligan, Morrison and Ellis(you all will realize he sucks soon enough) should be banned from anything X

Basically, everyone who wrote X-men from 1997-2007 sucked.

(Yes, that means Whedon too. He's a one-trick pony.)

[Generation Lee]

Do not insult the Weadon and Morrison did do some good I cannot think of what at the minute but there were good things but then some stories were utter crap.

[OutcryX]

Seagle and Kelly were pretty strong. i liked parts of Austen...Casey! didnt he write for awhile? yeah i liked some of his too. Stacy X and Chamber

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

Ok, i think i'm just done with this book. It leaves me bored.

[squeekness]

I thought the last issue was all right. Of coruse I am a Gambit fan and though some facts are a bit off, I thought he was written more like his old self than he has been in a long time.

[K4tzm4n]

I love the fact they've cleaned up his accent so much....Anyway, thoughts on the return of Omega Red in Uncanny? I'm excited.

[Valechan]

You should go to the Uncanny thread to talk about Uncanny :p

[K4tzm4n]

Sorry, I didn't see it.

[Havok83]

Seagle and Kelly were pretty strong. i liked parts of Austen...Casey! didnt he write for awhile? yeah i liked some of his too. Stacy X and Chamber
Seagle and Kelly were the BEST thing to happen to the books in the late 90s. The 2 core books immediately went downhill once they left and have barely recovered until recently. X-men redeemed itself when Morrison came aboard and UXM didnt get back on top till Brubaker last yer

[Valechan]

I enjoyed Seagle and Kelly, but I loved Davis run after it much more... he really gave Ororo her due

[OutcryX]

Davis was terrible and horrible and terribly horrible

[Specter313]

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/03/xmen213c.jpg

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/03/xmen2131.jpg

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/03/xmen2132.jpg

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/03/xmen2133.jpg

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/03/xmen2134.jpg



X-Men: Legacy #213 will arrive in stores on June 25 from Marvel Comics. The issue is written by Mike Carey, with art by Scot Eaton and a cover by Alan Davis.

Here's how Marvel describes the issue:

"With the surprising return of the Ragin' Cajun, Gambit, Charles must resume putting the pieces of his memory back together while continuing to ward off opposition. This issue will shed some light on a particular sinister x-villain that may have had something to do with Xavier's childhood. How far can Remy LeBeau take Charles along his quest to trace his past? Find out what role Gambit's former love has in Xavier's quest and what the shocking revelations are surrounding Sebastian Shaw."

X-Men: Legacy #213 will be 32 pages and will cost $2.99

[iamlegend]

X-Men: Legacy #213 will arrive in stores on June 25 from Marvel Comics. The issue is written by Mike Carey, with art by Scot Eaton and a cover by Alan Davis.

Here's how Marvel describes the issue:

"With the surprising return of the Ragin' Cajun, Gambit, Charles must resume putting the pieces of his memory back together while continuing to ward off opposition. This issue will shed some light on a particular sinister x-villain that may have had something to do with Xavier's childhood. How far can Remy LeBeau take Charles along his quest to trace his past? Find out what role Gambit's former love has in Xavier's quest and what the shocking revelations are surrounding Sebastian Shaw."

X-Men: Legacy #213 will be 32 pages and will cost $2.99


What? Carey was only using Gambit to segway into Rogue's much longer and inevitably more important in the whole story?

*sarcastic shocked expression*

:whatever:

[Colossal Spoons]

Remy and Shaw fighting together eh?

[UraniaChang]

Sounds like they put Xavier and Gambit together just for the sake of getting Gambit involved in Xavier's business...and former love? I wonder how long can that particular term last.

[insane polaris]

couldnt the 'former love' be Bella Donna, because that woman sat in the 'space chair' could be her?

[squeekness]

What? Carey was only using Gambit to segway into Rogue's much longer and inevitably more important in the whole story?

*sarcastic shocked expression*

:whatever:*begins weeping* And here I thought Gambit was going to be used decently. Well, I suppose it's better than limbo, right...? Or being a Horeseman...? :(

[squeekness]

couldnt the 'former love' be Bella Donna, because that woman sat in the 'space chair' could be her?I thought she died, no? It's been a while since I read that far back.....

[insane polaris]

I thought she died, no? It's been a while since I read that far back.....

she probably is but its X-men no stays dead
Sinister's probably cloned her or something

[cardslinger]

I'm thinkin it's Bella Donna based on the blonde in that one panel.

[ragingdemon155]

I thought that the X-universe was going to die down a bit after "Messiah Complex". Well, It has in a sense. I'm not digging the story over in Uncanny at all so I dropped the title after a few issues. That being said, X-men Legacy has me hooked. Surprising considering that I've never been a fan of Xavier's character. Yet, the character works really well here. Also, his little team up with Gambit is pretty interesting. Some people are coming off on Gambit for the way he was written in 212. I actually thought he was written. I've just been anxious to see Gambit again after Messiah Complex and hopefully next issue he has some interaction with Rogue cause the Gambit/Rogue dynamic is one of my favorites in all of comics.

[Canemacar]

What? Carey was only using Gambit to segway into Rogue's much longer and inevitably more important in the whole story?

You know, prior to #200, I was talking to carey on his blog and laid out some things I was worried about: Gambit being just a plot device for Rogue was one of those things. Carey assured me he had no intention of using Gambit as an "empty cypher" like that.

I think it's safe to say that Carey is a liar on that particular point.

Sounds like they put Xavier and Gambit together just for the sake of getting Gambit involved in Xavier's business...and former love? I wonder how long can that particular term last.

I suspected as much. Their interactions didn't seem like he put too much effort into it. Just a bunch of filler to move the plot along.

I thought she died, no? It's been a while since I read that far back.....

She was still alive in 2004 for his second series.

I'm thinkin it's Bella Donna based on the blonde in that one panel.

It's not. That is Amanda Mueller, the Black Womb. Her grandmother is Scott's Great grandmother. It was hinted that she is also Gambit's grandmother.

[iamlegend]

You know, prior to #200, I was talking to carey on his blog and laid out some things I was worried about: Gambit being just a plot device for Rogue was one of those things. Carey assured me he had no intention of using Gambit as an "empty cypher" like that.

I think it's safe to say that Carey is a liar on that particular point.



I suspected as much. Their interactions didn't seem like he put too much effort into it. Just a bunch of filler to move the plot along.



She was still alive in 2004 for his second series.



It's not. That is Amanda Mueller, the Black Womb. Her grandmother is Scott's Great grandmother. It was hinted that she is also Gambit's grandmother.

Hmm.

Seems like we might be getting more hints to Gambit's origins even sooner than we thought. Or at least sooner than I thought.

[GambitXremy]

were was that hinted at that amanda mueller,the black womb is gambits grandmother?

[UraniaChang]

You know, prior to #200, I was talking to carey on his blog and laid out some things I was worried about: Gambit being just a plot device for Rogue was one of those things. Carey assured me he had no intention of using Gambit as an "empty cypher" like that.

I think it's safe to say that Carey is a liar on that particular point.

Or maybe he thinks that Gambit being a plot device for Rogue doesn't count as an empty cypher. :whatever:
Break up these two forever, Carey, then maybe you can write something good for both characters.



It's not. That is Amanda Mueller, the Black Womb. Her grandmother is Scott's Great grandmother. It was hinted that she is also Gambit's grandmother.

Great, Scott might as well tell Hank to run a DNA test on the whole team to check just how many teammates are his unknown relatives.

[GambitXremy]

I can deal with gambit being scotts cousin, but not brother

[Canemacar]

Great, Scott might as well tell Hank to run a DNA test on the whole team to check just how many teammates are his unknown relatives.

Or hell, anyone with an X-gene. :whatever:

[UraniaChang]

Or hell, anyone with an X-gene. :whatever:

And all the extended family trees can be tracked back to...

[Specter313]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/200809-advance/XMEN216cov_col.jpg


X-MEN: LEGACY #216
Written by MIKE CAREY
Penciled by SCOT EATON
Cover by SALVADOR LAROCCA
No X-Man goes back further with Charles Xavier than Cyclops, but the trust between them has been eroded by terrible
revelations. Now Xavier wants Scott Summers to hold a mirror up to his own past and present. What he sees there could destroy both of them...
32 PGS./Rated A …$2.99

[Havok83]

No X-Man goes back further with Charles Xavier than Cyclops,Ugh, Jean does....

[Colossal Spoons]

Hush your mouth, you! lol

[tank girl]

big time headache

[UraniaChang]

The Prof seems to have only one major kind of expression in this title.

[insane polaris]

That covers really amazing, but it doesnt look like usual Salvador Larroca to me

[Specter313]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_cov.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=1)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_pg2.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=3)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_pg3.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=4)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_pg4.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=5)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_pg5.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=6)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_pg6.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=7)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/576/prv576_pg7.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=576&pg=1)

Story by Mike Carey (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview_srch&by=creator&for=Mike+Carey) Art by Scot Eaton (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview_srch&by=creator&for=Scot+Eaton) Colors by Frank D'Armata (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview_srch&by=creator&for=Frank+D%26%23039%3BArmata) Cover by Alan Davis (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview_srch&by=creator&for=Alan+Davis) Publisher Marvel Comics (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview_srch&by=pubid&for=17) Cover Price: $2.99 Release Date Wed, June 25th, 2008 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview_srch&by=rel_date&for=2008-06-25)
Xavier traces his history and the history of the X-Men to the core. What he finds will shock you. And what do Rogue, Gambit and Sebastian Shaw have to do with it?

[Specter313]

edit

[Manic]

I don't care what anyone says. I'm loving this book with Charles as the main focus.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

i'm still bored with this

[squeekness]

I am waiting to see if I will enjoy it as much when this arc ends and Gambit walks off stage. :)

[DoomJester]

I'm bored with the book just like comicboy. I'm reading it mainly because I'm trying trying to just bulk up on X-men since they are the only people that I really, truly, like other than Batman. I mean, others have had runs that I enjoy, and stuff but X-men I just... relate too. I know, I know, it sounds weird to say that but I do.

So I'm trying to hold on and keep a nice run of X-men but I'm not feeling this book.

[Manic]

It doesn't sound that weird. Since its inception, the X-Men has been all about relating to its readers. It's the whole "mutation is a metaphor for puberty" thing. Or in the 80s, a metaphor for race. Or in the past decade, a metaphor for homosexuality. And there's a broad selection of characters to relate to.

[spiderfan85]

A Major spoiler to the ending of X-Men: Legacy #213

It seems weird, but someone who got the issue early said Xavier turns into Sinister.

[tank girl]

and thats a small spoiler?

[spiderfan85]

Last page of X-Men Legacy #213:


http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4083/xl203gambit22uf9.jpg

[X_fan08]

it seems that he does turn to sinister/xaiver

[Canemacar]

Let me try and predict what happens in the next panel based on carey's previous work: Gambit screams at Sinister for talking about saint rogue like that and promptly gets curbstomped.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

Yeah, still dropped.

[iamlegend]

Let me try and predict what happens in the next panel based on carey's previous work: Gambit screams at Sinister for talking about saint rogue like that and promptly gets curbstomped.

Why must you bring reality into this? :woot:

I'm holding out hopes that Carey's going to let Gambit actually do something. Such as get over his Sinister issues. They mentioned in the Manifest Destiny interview that he'd remain a part of Legacy... and Sinister will be the baddie for a few months. So that's something.

Maybe Carey will reach back into what they say the end of MC was originally written to be.

[Zombie_Comics]

I'm kinda surprised Sinister called Rogue a whore.

[X_fan08]

Maybe a mutant harlot in the sense of her powers, stealing them via kiss

[squeekness]

I actually liked this issue quite a bit. I think it's cool the way they brought Sinister back. Beats a clone every time. :D I like Gambit in this also, he seems more like his old self, in a good way.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I'm kinda surprised Sinister called Rogue a whore.

An oblique reference to those creepy Magneto/Joseph storylines. Obviously.

Or maybe it was Pulse. Or Colossus.

[UraniaChang]

Let me try and predict what happens in the next panel based on carey's previous work: Gambit screams at Sinister for talking about saint rogue like that and promptly gets curbstomped.

If Gambit can't remember his lesson and still tries to defend Rogue...well, can you really blame Sinister for it? :woot:

[Zombie_Comics]

why does gambit always do the stupid thing?

[K4tzm4n]

why does gambit always do the stupid thing?

Care to elaborate? I think he's been doing well so far in legacy...Especially in comparison to how he's been in the past 5 years or so. Sure, he'll most likely get horribly owned in the next issue, but we all know there's no way Gambit could defeat Sinister (uh oh...debate?).

[iamlegend]

Care to elaborate? I think he's been doing well so far in legacy...Especially in comparison to how he's been in the past 5 years or so. Sure, he'll most likely get horribly owned in the next issue, but we all know there's no way Gambit could defeat Sinister (uh oh...debate?).

Well, since all you have to do Sinister nowadays is put him in a headlock, I think Gambit could manage... :woot:

But in all honest, even if Gambit were to get stomped, it's high time he at least manned up and TRIED to duke it out with Sinister.

[K4tzm4n]

Well, they've been doing him justice. Not only have they done a good job writing him, but he appears to be getting a fair amount of action. Let's hope this continues.

[Zombie_Comics]

I'm just saying some times he doesn't always do the smartest thing. But he has gotten better. Plus i don't like him with sinister, he can be easly manipulated by him. Just look at the past work they've done together.

[K4tzm4n]

did they ever reveal what he was given in exchange for his work with Sinister? In Uncanny #350 we see Sinister toss Gambit a small container, but it wasn't revealed in that issue what it contained. Any help?

[Canemacar]

did they ever reveal what he was given in exchange for his work with Sinister? In Uncanny #350 we see Sinister toss Gambit a small container, but it wasn't revealed in that issue what it contained. Any help?

It was a tiny piece of his own brain. Bet you weren't expecting that.

[K4tzm4n]

*sigh* That was actually my one and only guess. I'm hoping that will come in to play one day and Gambit will live up to his mutant potential.

[squeekness]

You can't have Remy be too powerful like he was with New Son. Then it just gets boring. A hero is best when he still has weaknesses.

[iamlegend]

You can't have Remy be too powerful like he was with New Son. Then it just gets boring. A hero is best when he still has weaknesses.

A very true statement.

But try telling that to Jean and Storm fans.

Or Wolverine in general.

[Canemacar]

*sigh* That was actually my one and only guess. I'm hoping that will come in to play one day and Gambit will live up to his mutant potential.


It did during Nicieza's New Sun arc in the first ongoing.

[X_fan08]

A very true statement.

But try telling that to Jean and Storm fans.

Or Wolverine in general.

Im a storm/ jean fan and i like them as they are but it would be cool to see them different i.e storm. not jean. i think she should be back with her omega powers only. no phoenix

[Manic]

Like I keep saying, if Rachel could spend several years as the Phoenix, then so can Jean.

[ragingdemon155]

Seriously, I'm loving this title. At times its a bit difficult to keep up with what's going on cause I haven't followed the X-men closely for years now. That's the only problem I have with it so far. Never thought a title with Xavier as the lead could interest me but Carey has done a really good job of making him interesting.

I really never new that Sinister was so important to the X-universe. I kind of always pegged him to be a B level super villain.

Oh...and the Gambit/Shaw team up was bad ass.

When does Rogue come into the title?

[squeekness]

Hopefully never. Oh wait... did I just say that? :p

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Im a storm/ jean fan and i like them as they are but it would be cool to see them different i.e storm. not jean. i think she should be back with her omega powers only. no phoenix
Omega powers ONLY...??? :woot:

If this isn't exactly what we're talking about, I dunno what is. Oh well.

[X_fan08]

Omega powers ONLY...??? :woot:

If this isn't exactly what we're talking about, I dunno what is. Oh well.

Her omega powers are just fine. I thought were talkn about the phoenix and storm fan wanting powers for them. The phoenix is superpowered up to the max in the comics and in games i.e. mugen. I saw it on youtube and the fighters didnt stand a chance. storm is cool the way she is but it would kick butt if she would go omega just for the hell of it

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Her omega powers are just fine. I thought were talkn about the phoenix and storm fan wanting powers for them. The phoenix is superpowered up to the max in the comics and in games i.e. mugen. I saw it on youtube and the fighters didnt stand a chance. storm is cool the way she is but it would kick butt if she would go omega just for the hell of it

ONCE AGAIN...

If this isn't exactly what we're talking about, I dunno what is. Oh well.

[X_fan08]

ONCE AGAIN...

If this isn't exactly what we're talking about, I dunno what is. Oh well.

........................... I guess

[UraniaChang]

Her omega powers are just fine. I thought were talkn about the phoenix and storm fan wanting powers for them. The phoenix is superpowered up to the max in the comics and in games i.e. mugen. I saw it on youtube and the fighters didnt stand a chance. storm is cool the way she is but it would kick butt if she would go omega just for the hell of it


Omega powers?
Just fine?
YUCK!

[Manic]

You know, we'd all be just fine if the concept of Omega-levels was never brought up in the comics. The very idea is so vaguely defined.

[Chamber_UK]

I'd don't get the whole problem that people have with the whole "Omega Level" label. It's vaguely defined because that's the point.

[tank girl]

trust the x men to even have stereotypes

[Zombie_Comics]

^ your so right, i've never seen it that way until now, but your right they do stereotype each other.

[iamlegend]

I'd don't get the whole problem that people have with the whole "Omega Level" label. It's vaguely defined because that's the point.

Maybe people don't like it because having characters with seemingly limitless powers that have no definition is silly and leads to bad plot lines?

[Chamber_UK]

But that's just the thing, with the mutants and evolution isn't it possible that certain individuals WILL have limitless power, and naturally once people realise this they're going to attach a classification to it.

I'm mean even over in the Initiative the recruits are having their powers classed as well, Cloud 9 was refered to as being below 50 and therefore was require to carry a rifle with her.

[iamlegend]

But that's just the thing, with the mutants and evolution isn't it possible that certain individuals WILL have limitless power, and naturally once people realise this they're going to attach a classification to it.

I'm mean even over in the Initiative the recruits are having their powers classed as well, Cloud 9 was refered to as being below 50 and therefore was require to carry a rifle with her.

That's not the issue here, for the most part.

The issue is that, because the Omega mutant power levels are limitless, they wind up being used as deus ex machinas or things to that effect, ruining good plots, or just starting horrible ones to begin with.

It's not the comic existence of the Omega level and term, it's how the writers handle it, that upsets so many folks.

We've seen it before. X-Men facing horrible danger. Bang, here's the Phoenix Force, or some ridiculous equivalent.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

LIMITLESS power.

Think about it real hard. More to the point, think of how it just about kills any drama or suspense. Or, say, actual sense.

All I'm gonna say.

[Manic]

The problem with omega mutants is that their "limitless potential" is used and forgotten whenever it's convenient to the plot. Just look at Elixir from the New X-Men. He's an omega mutant. Some writers had him instantly healing his own wounds, and other writers had him in a coma during Messiah CompleX. Sometimes he was healing the X-Men from getting impaled with large spikes, and other times he couldn't heal cuts and blunt trauma.

[Chamber_UK]

OK true the "Omega" thing has been handled very poorly and their needs to be more consistency. However, it has made for some good plot points like Mr. M and the whole thing with Iceman not having yet lived up to his full potential.

And seriously sometimes it's kinda handy to have Omega mutants sweep in and clean up bad story line (ie. recently in Ultimate X-Men).....would you rather hang around for say a whole year while the writers fix the plot issue by issue with damage control storylines?

[Manic]

It took maybe 2 issues for Chuck Austen to switch "Xorn is Magneto" to "Xorn is Xorn on drugs" and there was no omega mutant involved in that fix.

And when was the last time Iceman hadn't fulfilled his potential? The 90s? Because last time I checked, the man could freeze anything, follow trails of moisture in plantlife, change the shape of his body, and become unkillable living ice. Or will Iceman fans not be happy until he becomes a swirling icy mist, like in Age of Apocalypse? My problems with Iceman have been the way writers ignore him or write him too childishly. His powers are just fine.

Besides, isn't the prospect of omega mutant kind of a moot issue when there are probably about 300 mutants worldwide?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Or will Iceman fans not be happy until he becomes a swirling icy mist, like in Age of Apocalypse?

Sounds about right.

[Havok83]

^^^ Iceman already turned into mist in the pages of X-men as written by Carey. He used that to take out Aurora. He actually took on steam form which demostrated that his powers extended to not only levels of cold, but forms of heat

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

^^^ Iceman already turned into mist in the pages of X-men as written by Carey. He used that to take out Aurore

I have no idea why that was your 'answer' to my post, lol.

I've never even tried to the fact that I think Bobby being an Omega was lame.

[iamlegend]

I have no idea why that was your 'answer' to my post, lol.

I've never even tried to the fact that I think Bobby being an Omega was lame.

If anything, his post reaffirmed your other point...

That many Iceman fans will never be satisfied, regardless of how powerful they make Bobby.

What is this guy going to be able to do if he "reaches his potential?" Seriously, I want to know what's expected.

[Canemacar]

What is this guy going to be able to do if he "reaches his potential?" Seriously, I want to know what's expected.

Beat anyone by snapping his fingers i suppose. It's not like he's got much else going for him: "childish prankster" isn't a very deep character archetype.

[Chamber_UK]

True True I mean whoe's left?

Elixir, Mister M (where ever he his)...and who else?

[Havok83]

I have no idea why that was your 'answer' to my post, lol.

I've never even tried to the fact that I think Bobby being an Omega was lame.
sorry, this was the post, I was referring too

Or will Iceman fans not be happy until he becomes a swirling icy mist, like in Age of Apocalypse? My problems with Iceman have been the way writers ignore him or write him too childishly. His powers are just fine.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

What is this guy going to be able to do if he "reaches his potential?" Seriously, I want to know what's expected.

Strongest mutant EVAH.

[UraniaChang]

And some more supersized egos come along the way.

Bad idea.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

And some more supersized egos come along the way.

Bad idea.

oh, trust me on this one, I *know*

Was just summing up the opinion of quite a few Bobster fans.

OMEGA isn't lame!!! WOOOHOOO!!!

[Coldqueen]

I think I sense sarcasm.

I'm just saying...Bobby's full potential?

Um...it'll be like the Phoenix...but with ice.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I think I sense sarcasm.

You sense well, oh queenly one.


I'm just saying...Bobby's full potential?

Um...it'll be like the Phoenix...but with ice.

No, no, no.

Phoenix = Lame and overdone
OmegaIceman = Completely different

P.S. Don't ask me WTF's the logic on this one, I'm still recovering from the aneurysm.

[Coldqueen]

Aww, but that's exactly my point!

After all the foreshadowing and posturing...the only thing Omega!Iceman CAN BE is lame and overdone.

*massages Darth's temples and hands him an aspirin*

[GambitXremy]

they need to treat bobby as a grown man now and not this guy who will never stop acting as a kid

[Manic]

It's sad, really. Spider-Man, Iceman, and the Human Torch are all roughly the same age, and Johnny is the only one who editors will admit is a grown man.

[iamlegend]

It's sad, really. Spider-Man, Iceman, and the Human Torch are all roughly the same age, and Johnny is the only one who editors will admit is a grown man.

Well, Spider-Man was a grown man for ages, but Joe Q has a hard on for teeneage spidey, so he rewrote history.

Marvel's current team sucks.

End.

[Coldqueen]

I was under the impression that FF's Human Torch had a personality that was immature and childish. (This is after I got yelled at over in the FF boards a long time ago for saying that I disliked his character in the movie because he was an ass).

[iamlegend]

I was under the impression that FF's Human Torch had a personality that was immature and childish. (This is after I got yelled at over in the FF boards a long time ago for saying that I disliked his character in the movie because he was an ass).

Haven't actively read F4 in awhile, but last I saw, he'd developed a bit as a person.

Bobby? Not so much.

[Manic]

Isn't Johnny pretty much handling the Fantastic Four's finances?

Come to think of it, as the only qualified superhero/accredited account I know of, shouldn't Iceman be handling the X-Men's finances?

[Harlekin]

Yeah, Johnny is handling the finances, but he's still treated like a male bimbo. None of the maturing of the eighties actually stuck, which I guess could be partially accredited to Heroes Reborn revamping the heroes.

[UraniaChang]

Isn't Johnny pretty much handling the Fantastic Four's finances?

Come to think of it, as the only qualified superhero/accredited account I know of, shouldn't Iceman be handling the X-Men's finances?

I guess most people (maybe including Bobby himself) already forgot that Iceman has an accounting degree.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I guess most people (maybe including Bobby himself) already forgot that Iceman has an accounting degree.

Considering the random 'Cyke is the suxxor' hissy fits he's had in the past couple of years, no wonder Cyke wouldn't give him that job, really.

[Coldqueen]

Bobby having an accounting degree really fits into that "more boring than Cyclops" thing he has going.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Bobby having an accounting degree really fits into that "more boring than Cyclops" thing he has going.
Oh, come on, One-Eye goes riding dinosaurs and skydiving on vacation. And he flies jets out of a coastline. And sends deathsquads after his son. Sheesh.

Sure, he likes the whole 'brooding in a darkened room/corner and not saying a thing for like, days' thingy, but come on. :woot:

[ProfeZZor X]

If anything, his post reaffirmed your other point...

That many Iceman fans will never be satisfied, regardless of how powerful they make Bobby.

What is this guy going to be able to do if he "reaches his potential?" Seriously, I want to know what's expected.

You see, that's where I think you're wrong. I'm probably "the" most biggest Iceman fan you'll ever meet, and I wouldn't get bored with him staying at an omega class level. Just because he can reach unlimited possibilities, he's still human deep down. And with that comes emotions, conflict, and desire. Imagine being all powerfull and not have the capacity to love, because of your powers and responsibility to the world. Imagine using that power to help heal the world in some parts, but you bring famine to others as a consequence. There are plenty of stories that present themselves on a scientific and emotional level that can be introduced without focusing just on how powerfull he or any other Omega Class mutant is.

In a way, it kind of plays off the "With great power, comes great responsibility" theme, but on a global and universal scale... And you can't go wrong with that.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

You see, that's where I think you're wrong. I'm probably "the" most biggest Iceman fan you'll ever meet, and I wouldn't get bored with him staying at an omega class level. Just because he can reach unlimited possibilities, he's still human deep down. And with that comes emotions, conflict, and desire. Imagine being all powerfull and not have the capacity to love, because of your powers and responsibility to the world. Imagine using that power to help heal the world in some parts, but you bring famine to others as a consequence. There are plenty of stories that present themselves on a scientific and emotional level that can be introduced without focusing just on how powerfull he or any other Omega Class mutant is.

1 - CLAREMAZON ALERT.

2 - AmILegend clearly meant powerwise. And saying 'I'm fine with him JUST being an Omega' isn't much of a counterargument.

3 - CLAREMAZON ALERT.

4 - You SO aren't. I remember those 'what kind of new awesome feats Bobby should pull' threads over at CBR. Not the exact title, but it was the premise anyway.

5 - CLAREMAZON ALERT.

[ProfeZZor X]

1 - CLAREMAZON ALERT.

2 - AmILegend clearly meant powerwise. And saying 'I'm fine with him JUST being an Omega' isn't much of a counterargument.

3 - CLAREMAZON ALERT.

4 - You SO aren't. I remember those 'what kind of new awesome feats Bobby should pull' threads over at CBR. Not the exact title, but it was the premise anyway.

5 - CLAREMAZON ALERT.

Says who?... And what's wrong with doing awesome feats and maintaining his humanity at the same time?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I don't get why you highlighted that part of the post... :huh:

I was just saying that making 'OMG, he needs to do MORE awesome stuff' threads does not qualify as being 'fine' with a character's current situation.

Says who?...

The X-Office, actually. Jean, anyone?

And what's wrong with doing awesome feats and maintaining his humanity at the same time?

Ask Storm sceptics.

But then again, if you want Bobby to show both his awesomess/humanity by infiltrating some kind of sex/gladiator ring, then be my guest.

[Coldqueen]

LMAO.

I'm going to ignore the fight going on overhead, and get down to my own concerns...

Did the writers seriously just randomly throw Irene Adler's name into the current plotline JUST so they could eventually drag Rogue in? Because so far I'm not seeing a reason for her spot there...at least not until they also randomly had Gambit appear.

[ProfeZZor X]

I don't get why you highlighted that part of the post... :huh:

I was just saying that making 'OMG, he needs to do MORE awesome stuff' threads does not qualify as being 'fine' with a character's current situation.



The X-Office, actually. Jean, anyone?



Ask Storm sceptics.

But then again, if you want Bobby to show both his awesomess/humanity by infiltrating some kind of sex/gladiator ring, then be my guest.

I like you bro... You're good people. :cwink:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Did the writers seriously just randomly throw Irene Adler's name into the current plotline JUST so they could eventually drag Rogue in? Because so far I'm not seeing a reason for her spot there...at least not until they also randomly had Gambit appear.

Gumbo has ALREADY... Le sigh.

*gets up to go bangs head on wall*

P.S. *STILL* no idea why you wouldn't catch up on papa Carey's book first. :huh:

[Coldqueen]

I got AXM 25. Still unimpressed.

No, I'm saying I didn't understand why Irene would be on that list. Then Gambit showed up. Now I understand.

It's one big plot to bring Rogue and Gambit back together.

I'm not supportive of this movement. At the moment, considering her recent history, I'd like Rogue to stay in Australia, far away from any main X-book. She needs a break. And a good writer.

[Coldqueen]

Also, since we're on the topic, WHY DID GAMBIT JUST RANDOMLY SHOW UP OUTSIDE XAVIER'S HOTEL ROOM? WTF? That was just...so incredibly INCREDIBLY ridiculous. Plot hole like WHOA.

[El Bastardo]

Also, since we're on the topic, WHY DID GAMBIT JUST RANDOMLY SHOW UP OUTSIDE XAVIER'S HOTEL ROOM? WTF? That was just...so incredibly INCREDIBLY ridiculous. Plot hole like WHOA.
No, no it's not. Just because it isn't revealed in the final "shocktastic" page doesn't mean there isn't a reason for it. We are in the middle of that arc, after all, or the first issue, or whatever it is, and it is a serialized story.

For shame. I didn't take you for a part of the overreaction crowd. :o

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It's one big plot to bring Rogue and Gambit back together.

Cause Canemacar, iamlegend and I haven't been calling it ever since... god, how long has it been...? :woot:

I'm not supportive of this movement. At the moment, considering her recent history, I'd like Rogue to stay in Australia, far away from any main X-book. She needs a break. And a good writer.

Don't worry. Either she'll stand as one of Cyke's generals once he becomes an actual outlaw in 2k9 or betray - I'm sorry, side against - Cyke & his crew. Either way it'll be big.

[Coldqueen]

I'm betting for "side against". Cyke and she never really got to discuss that whole "your team was basically responsible for all of Messiah Complex" thing.

Okay...so y'all have been calling it...*sigh*...you were right.

I'm not overreacting. It just amuses me. If I ever go on a soul-searching vacation that takes me to a childhood haunt, then I DEFINITELY want to open up my motel door and find a sexy, dangerous, and definitely ****able Cajun on the other side.

Oooooh...totally just got a slashy fanfic idea.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I'm betting for "side against". Cyke and she never really got to discuss that whole "your team was basically responsible for all of Messiah Complex" thing.

Careful what you bet for. You didn't say 'wish', though, so I'll give ya props for that.

Once things get ugly (read: 2k9 big event), those not siding with Cyke will automatically be on Stark/The Initiave's side and thus will become the wusses and/or traitors of the x-verse.


Okay...so y'all have been calling it...*sigh*...you were right.

I know it's funnier to *fight* us, but we're kinda sharp when it comes to these things. :woot:

[El Bastardo]

I don't think I can deal with you people anymore.

I need to just retreat to my blog, where sane minds prevail, like Spoons and Outcry.

Ooh, I just got a slashy fanfic idea.

[Specter313]

Hey! Why am I not included among the sane?! :cmad: :p

[El Bastardo]

Uh... I, uh...

I didn't think you loved me anymore! :o

[Colossal Spoons]

Everybody love everybody!

[Coldqueen]

Screw that, that's no fun.

It is funnier to fight them. Sometimes I do it just for the sake of doing it.

*shrugs* Not today. It's not like in matters of plot they're ever wrong. Any idiot with eyes can predict what Marvel is going to do next since it tends to be so categorically uncreative.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I don't think I can deal with you people anymore.

I need to just retreat to my blog, where sane minds prevail, like Spoons and Outcry.

Wasn't Outcry making jokes with us about Callisto doing sexy things to 'Ro with her tentacles? Actual tentacles, mind you. :huh:

And don't get me started on the D-list obsession.

Love ya anyway, Outcry. :woot:

[Maulin'd]

If Rogue still had the memories of all the people she touched then she'd be perfect here. Kind of a catalogue for the Prof. to look through. But right now, Gambit and Rogue feel out of place.

But I like Legacy though, I don't find it boring at all. I've always liked reading about mutant philosophies... so I like how Xavier is searching for a new one.

[El Bastardo]

Carey working out of / for the mythos pretty much makes Legacy the best X-title right now, from an objective viewpoint. No, it's not my favorite. (Learn the difference, folks!)

[Coldqueen]

I'm all caught up on X-Men (Legacy)...soooo...

WTF is Armor? And why is she an X-Man? 'Cause seriously...what, they just HAD to fill the naive/innocent role in the team?

[Manic]

Armor is one of the students (Hisako Ichiki). She accidentally got sent into space with the X-Men during one of their missions, and was forced to suit up and join the team to survive. She was apparently given full X-Men membership because of that.

[Coldqueen]

...yeah, but that's lame.

(Also, knew most of that...I'm just saying...they couldn't find a better student to become part of the "real" X-Men than that?)

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

WTF is Armor? And why is she an X-Man? 'Cause seriously...what, they just HAD to fill the naive/innocent role in the team?

Kinda. And you forgot the creepy angle.

But dont't fear. The writers all seem to be aware that the x-kids are merely a lens through which someone else's story is being seen. *glares at Claremont*

So, just saying they seem to be having fun with it rather than writing it as gospel. I wouldn't worry too much.

[Canemacar]

Armor is just Kitty Pryde mk. 3, much like Jubilee was kitty Pryde mk. 2. In short; the writers think wolverine always needs an annoying brat to follow him around and be obnoxious.