Official X-MEN: LEGACY Discussion Thread

[ghost113]

And northstar is tryong to see whats happening thats why he is holding a flash light.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

If you look at the picture closely, it appears that Bobby's chest is bursting from the inside out. Maybe it's the way Bachalo drew the panel, but no matter what angle you look at it (even upside down), it looks like Bobby's chest is exploding from within.

Besides, how else would you explain the upcoming cover of #190? Something powerful had to have happened to him in order for him to be blown in half like that.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Aug06/XMEM190COVER_400.jpg


i just can't get over how good this cover looks coming from Bachalo. i really hope raven doesn't turn bad again, i like her... and i have a thing for blue people.

[ProfeZZor X]

What the hell does that mean? maybe that is just his stance and he's getting ready for battle. He does still seem to be a background character but considering what just happened to him and his past with Northstar he is about to jump into the spotlight.

I'm starting to see a pattern here, now that you mentioned it. Sabertooth has been prominently on Bachalo's covers more than any other character. Doesn't it strike you being odd that he was prominently on #188, then on #189. Now he's in the foreground on #191.

[ProfeZZor X]

i just can't get over how good this cover looks coming from Bachalo. i really hope raven doesn't turn bad again, i like her... and i have a thing for blue people.

Someone mentioned that she could possibly trying to revive him from death. Which would explain why he's so limp. But you never know. Coincidentally, she was closest to the two, considering she was just talking to Cannonball a few minutes earlier, while everyone else was in the infirmary talking to Beast. So yeah, it's likely she could be reviving him instead of kissing him.

[ghost113]

that could be a possibility.

[Specter313]

I used the cover of #190 as a reference to his condition afterwards. However, if you want to get technical, Carey DID say in an interview (the very one that you posted in this thread some time ago) that what you see on #190 is what you get.

a) Iceman is blown in half.
b) Iceman & Mystique start an informal intimate relationship. (Posssibly a means to get back at Rogue, or stir things up within the team)

But if you want to be analytical about the panel, how do you explain Bobby's clothes/chest bursting outwards, rather than randomly directional? If a projectile is thrusted into an object, the entry wound/area is concave, not convexed... What we see on the image is convexed. If you have a better explanation as to what we see on that page, I'd like to hear it.

*Also, if anyone can scan and post that last page (exploding Bobby), we can discuss it further with a little more visual detail.

Now you're just jumping ahead and assuming that panel has anything to do with what happens to him that causes him to be in half like that.

And again, if you have something explode on, not in, your chest like that, it's going to still explode outward like that, and look at Bachalo's history of drawing stuff, he draws all explosions the same way.

And you need to think about what caused it too. Northstar and Aurora, when they touched, would give off a flash of light. Serafina said that only amplified their powers some, not completely changed them. Amplifying the powers would infer that she added something to them to make them more powerful, but not change them. Adding a blast of heat to the light would fit, not just being able to cause random explosions inside of people.

[ProfeZZor X]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j89/RobinBlue_photos/X-Men_189_022-1.jpg

All those that think Bobby is exploding from the inside out, raise your thumb icons in agreement.

Specter313 - You'll get your answer in a few...

[ProfeZZor X]

Now you're just jumping ahead and assuming that panel has anything to do with what happens to him that causes him to be in half like that.

And again, if you have something explode on, not in, your chest like that, it's going to still explode outward like that, and look at Bachalo's history of drawing stuff, he draws all explosions the same way.

And you need to think about what caused it too. Northstar and Aurora, when they touched, would give off a flash of light. Serafina said that only amplified their powers some, not completely changed them. Amplifying the powers would infer that she added something to them to make them more powerful, but not change them. Adding a blast of heat to the light would fit, not just being able to cause random explosions inside of people.

All of that is speculation, considering no one knows exactly what she did to them. And yes, she did say she altered their DNA, but she also added a little "sweetner" to Northstar when they recovered him from the HAND. Plus, who knows what the effects of that blackhole/quasar did for the twins when they used their powers together in it's presence.

If you want to blame it on the artist for drawing an exploding person incorrectly, then fine. But what I see, is someone with what appears to be their chest exploding from the inside out. I've also considered the notion that the pressure from ruptured internal organs could have burst through, with an instantaneous tear in the skin and abdominal wall, but it's unlikely from this kind of explosion.

[ghost113]

Actually it just looks like they hit him in the chest and his shirt caught on fire.

[Specter313]

All of that is speculation, considering no one knows exactly what she did to them. And yes, she did say she altered their DNA, but she also added a little "sweetner" to Northstar when they recovered him from the HAND. Plus, who knows what the effects of that blackhole/quasar did for the twins when they used their powers together in it's presence.

If you want to blame it on the artist for drawing an exploding person incorrectly, then fine. But what I see, is someone with what appears to be their chest exploding from the inside out. I've also considered the notion that the pressure from ruptured internal organs could have burst through, with an instantaneous tear in the skin and abdominal wall, but it's unlikely from this kind of explosion.

Good lord, dude, you are thinking WAY TOO HARD about this. Yeah, altering someone's DNA means altering what's already there, like I said before, so they didn't give them stuff that's brand new just amplified what was already there. And that "sweetener" you're talking about was said in connection to Northstar's motivations to kill, not his powers. So again, adding a heat blast to their flash would make sense, not the ability to blow people up.

And, yet again, look at anything that Bachalo has done the last couple years. He draws everything that when they are hit by some kind of blast almost exactly the same way each time, and it looks almost exactly like what happens in that panel. Note I said HIT by a blast, not exploding.

And you got to think who reads this stuff too. It's not kiddie stuff, but a lot of kids still read it and do you seriously think that the editors would allow someone's guts being blown out of them to make the final cut like that? No.

[Colossal Spoons]

Are we really debating this topic? It's so trivial and we're probably all wrong. :o

[Sean Madrox]

Doesn't it look like he has webbed hands lol.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

yes

[ghost113]

Ewwwwww, bobby has webbed hands, Ewwwwwww.

[ProfeZZor X]

Ewwwwww, bobby has webbed hands, Ewwwwwww.

Duck everyone........ Bobby Drake is coming... Hehe.

[ProfeZZor X]

So who actually did this cover? ......Townsend or Bachalo? .......Or both?

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Aug06/XMEM190COVER_400.jpg

[ghost113]

Bachalo

[Specter313]

Bachalo does pencils, Townsend fills in the colors and such.

[chris moore]

Bachalo said in an interview recenrtly that he did the entire cover, colours and all. Says he used a photo he took of tree bark to give Bobby the icy texture.

[OutcryX]

That was great inspiration to use...tree bark=iceman. it worked. So are all these characters expected to survive this arc or stay with the team for the long run? Sabretooth and Mystique especially...also...who will the surprise member be? have they hinted at it yet?

[ghost113]

the two girls probably

[spark627]

well, I dont think sabertooth becomes an x-men, i think he helps with this mission and then leaves. most likely karima is gonna be a new member.

[ghost113]

I think that sabretooth will be somewhat loyal to the x-men after they save his life.

[Colossal Spoons]

Shapindar was awesome in Excalibur, hope she does become the new member. She's got a ton of firepower and combined with Cable; should make for some great fight scenes.

[ProfeZZor X]

That was great inspiration to use...tree bark=iceman. it worked. So are all these characters expected to survive this arc or stay with the team for the long run? Sabretooth and Mystique especially...also...who will the surprise member be? have they hinted at it yet?

Mysterio..... Oh wait, he's in Spiderman 3.

Seriously though, I hope Cable is NOT a part of the regular line up. Other than his preachy babbling, and stories on how he got his ass whooped by Silver Surfer, what else does he have to offer?

[Colossal Spoons]

Um, ridiculous amounts of teke and pseudo-telepathy.

[ghost113]

Mysterio..... Oh wait, he's in Spiderman 3.

Seriously though, I hope Cable is NOT a part of the regular line up. Other than his preachy babbling, and stories on how he got his ass whooped by Silver Surfer, what else does he have to offer?

One, Mysterio will only have a cameo apperanceand two, Cable is ridiculously powerful not only as a telepath but as a powerhouse and gunslinger.

[X_fan08]

One, Mysterio will only have a cameo apperanceand two, Cable is ridiculously powerful not only as a telepath but as a powerhouse and gunslinger.


why is it that all of jean's (clone or oringinal) kids have psionic powers. no power trait related to scott. Rachel, cable, x-man. all tk,tp users on omega levels.

[Colossal Spoons]

Cuz Scott is and never will be dominant in any way, shape, or form :p

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Well, having Phoenix or some clon of Phoenix as a mother almost puts Scott's legacy lo shame, so I can see why only Jean's powers manifests in their children.

[danielisthor]

I would imagine that if Scott ever got around to having more than one kid with any teke, some of his genes would eventually get in there. Though that kid would be the runt of the family.

[ghost113]

scott's not powerful enough to pass his genes on, and I mean that in more than one way, hahahahahahahahahahaha. Just ask jean and emma.

[ProfeZZor X]

Cuz Scott is and never will be dominant in any way, shape, or form :p

Makes you wonder what would happen when/if Vulcan has a kid(s).... :eek:

[X_fan08]

scott's not powerful enough to pass his genes on, and I mean that in more than one way, hahahahahahahahahahaha. Just ask jean and emma.

i know. did u read x-men the end? emma and cyclops kids were blonde blue eyed, and psi. now hes got bad genes

[Colossal Spoons]

Makes you wonder what would happen when/if Vulcan has a kid(s).... :eek:

Well Gabe appears to be an actual man who's genes matter and who might actually get respect from his team. Scott is a joke.

[ghost113]

And we all know females love the bad boys.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Makes you wonder what would happen when/if Vulcan has a kid(s).... :eek:
I wonder what would happen if two Omegas had a child together :eek:

[Generation Lee]

Well isn't it strange all the kids seem to have power flowing from one eye. Rachel has the raptor mark cable and X-man have the light up eye I just think its a little homage to Daddy.

[GreatWhiteWhale]

Well isn't it strange all the kids seem to have power flowing from one eye. Rachel has the raptor mark cable and X-man have the light up eye I just think its a little homage to Daddy.

Yeah I always thought that too, I mean, it seems a pretty obvious reference.

Besides, whats all this crap about Scott having weak genes, just because his kids with Emma and Jean both have psychic powers - Perhaps his kids inherit Scott's moral fortitude, his strength of leadership, his motivation, his dedication... I mean one of his kids is Cable for ****s sake, who I think, excluding powers, has more in common with Scott than Jean personality-wise/behaviourally.

[Prettyboy]

.

Scott's moral fortitude
Errrr????:confused: What moral fortitude???

_________________
I'm not a registered user, I'm a functioning user.
"Shouldn't we be counting the days until you-know-who returns from the white-hot you-know-what?" Psylocke Uncanny X-Men 460

[ProfeZZor X]

Yeah I always thought that too, I mean, it seems a pretty obvious reference.

Besides, whats all this crap about Scott having weak genes, just because his kids with Emma and Jean both have psychic powers - Perhaps his kids inherit Scott's moral fortitude, his strength of leadership, his motivation, his dedication... I mean one of his kids is Cable for ****s sake, who I think, excluding powers, has more in common with Scott than Jean personality-wise/behaviourally.

Meh.... I disagree. Cable was raised by someone completely different, so I don't think daddy's fearless personality rubbed off on him like that. Sure, there may be some inherent genetic traits that stem from Scott's personality, but that's not the determining factor on why Cable came out the way that he did. You have to remember that Cable came from a "rougher" time period than Scott, so he had no choice but to "buck up" and get with the program.... Remember, for him, it was survival of the fittest.... or die.

As for two Omegas having children, I'm not too sure about that one. Look at Mystique and Sabertooth... Two regular mutants that had a normal human child (Graydon Creed). The same effect could happen with two Omega mutants... Or at the very least, the child turns out with average mutant powers.

[X_fan08]

could that have something to so with the fact that mystique was in human form? she does mimic gentics or dna or somethin like that. Correct me if im wrong

[ProfeZZor X]

could that have something to so with the fact that mystique was in human form? she does mimic gentics or dna or somethin like that. Correct me if im wrong

You'd be wrong.... Mimmicked or not, Mystique is a mutant regardless of who she changes into. Her changing her DNA to match another persons is not possible (as far as I know). Although she can replicate someone elses DNA patterns (finger prints, eye patterns), she cannot not become their DNA counterpart.

[Colossal Spoons]

Yeah I always thought that too, I mean, it seems a pretty obvious reference.

Besides, whats all this crap about Scott having weak genes, just because his kids with Emma and Jean both have psychic powers - Perhaps his kids inherit Scott's moral fortitude, his strength of leadership, his motivation, his dedication... I mean one of his kids is Cable for ****s sake, who I think, excluding powers, has more in common with Scott than Jean personality-wise/behaviourally.

HA! Iceman, Havok, Polaris, and most recently Bishop have shown that Cyclops gets no reespect as of late.

[X_fan08]

You'd be wrong.... Mimmicked or not, Mystique is a mutant regardless of who she changes into. Her changing her DNA to match another persons is not possible (as far as I know). Although she can replicate someone elses DNA patterns (finger prints, eye patterns), she cannot not become their DNA counterpart.

OK!

[Specter313]

I wonder what would happen if two Omegas had a child together :eek:

They already have, actually. In an alternate reality similar to Days of Future Past, Rachel Grey and Franklin Richards had a son. But his power was too great and it drove him mad:

In a different version of the Day of Future Past (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/time/showfaq.asp?fldAuto=9) scenario, Rachel was not transported back in time, and her lover, Franklin Richards survived. As shown in Fantastic Four #414 they married, and had a child http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/rachel-hyper.jpgnamed Jonathan Reed Richards. Unfortunately, he was too powerful, went mad and called himself Hyperstorm, threatening the entire multiverse. Blaming his parents and effectively his paternal grandparents for how super-powered beings had been treated in the timeline, Hyperstorm time-traveled to the present with a vengeance in order to make the Fantastic Four pay. He was nearly successful, though in the end Mr. Fantastic lured him into a trap, locking Hyperstorm, empowered by an unlimited power source, into a seemingly endless battle with Galactus, the cosmic devourer with an infinite hunger. As he never reappeared afterwards, Hyperstorm might have died in the conflict.

[Colossal Spoons]

I love these characters that "might have died" :rolleyes:

[ProfeZZor X]

They already have, actually. In an alternate reality similar to Days of Future Past, Rachel Grey and Franklin Richards had a son. But his power was too great and it drove him mad:

Hell... with a costume like that, it would have drove me mad too (Queer guy, with a blind eye).

[El Bastardo]

Bah, it's not the character's fault that almost no writer who's touched Cyclops has ever known how to write him. Or, rather, they don't know how to write responses to his orders. The "teenage rebel" archetype only goes so far.

And didn't Cyke and Jean technically raise Cable, at least for an amount of time, in that miniseries as their future alter-egos... what were their names, Slim and Redd? Mind you, never read anything outside of quick glances through the synopses on uncannyxmen.net, but I think that sounds right. Or was it retconned? If it's still happened, then Whale's right - Cyke's leadership could have/would have rubbed off on his son.

[Prettyboy]

Bah, it's not the character's fault that almost no writer who's touched Cyclops has ever known how to write him. Or, rather, they don't know how to write responses to his orders. The "teenage rebel" archetype only goes so far.

And didn't Cyke and Jean technically raise Cable, at least for an amount of time, in that miniseries as their future alter-egos... what were their names, Slim and Redd? Mind you, never read anything outside of quick glances through the synopses on uncannyxmen.net, but I think that sounds right. Or was it retconned? If it's still happened, then Whale's right - Cyke's leadership could have/would have rubbed off on his son.

Well, they did raise him for a while, but Cable's powers are his prominent characteristics over his leadership skills. So one would say that he takes after Jean more than Scott.

_________________
I'm not a registered user, I'm a functioning user.
"Shouldn't we be counting the days until you-know-who returns from the white-hot you-know-what?" Psylocke Uncanny X-Men 460

[gothicFLAVOURS]

They already have, actually. In an alternate reality similar to Days of Future Past, Rachel Grey and Franklin Richards had a son. But his power was too great and it drove him mad:
Oh right, I forgot about him... I'm not a fan of those alternate dimensions.

Thanx for the info

[GreatWhiteWhale]

To all those people bagging on Cyclops.

I say: Whedon's Cyclops is one take on the character, if you read past X-Men comics, you'll see that the dominant reading is that he is a strong, moral and inspiring leader.

[Mother_Askani]

And didn't Cyke and Jean technically raise Cable, at least for an amount of time, in that miniseries as their future alter-egos... what were their names, Slim and Redd? Mind you, never read anything outside of quick glances through the synopses on uncannyxmen.net, but I think that sounds right. Or was it retconned? If it's still happened, then Whale's right - Cyke's leadership could have/would have rubbed off on his son.

In The Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix, Rachel Summers (Mother Askani) transfered Jean & Scott to other bodies in the Askani timeline to help raise Nathan, since she was dying and Clan Askani had been all but been destroyed.

Scott and Jean spend 10 years raising Nathan, but during that time they're on the run and hiding, not exactly in a situation to teach Nathan anything other than controling his powers. Scott was also kind of distant with Nathan, and he was definitely closer to Jean. Also, Nate thought his real parents abandoned him, and then thought that Scott & Jean (Redd & Slym) had also abandoned him (when Rachel died, Scott & Jean were rather aburptly pulled back to their own time), and it wasn't until Nate had spent enough time with Scott & Jean that he figure out who they were the people who had raised him.

Scott's leadership skills probably show in Rachel, more than Nathan. Nate's a take charge kind of guy, and he was a leader in the Askani future and did well with the New Mutants, but his social skills leave a lot to be desired and he's never going to be able to lead the X-Men. Rachel's the one the can give the inspiring speeches and can organize people. She's the one that convinced the member of Excalibur to carry on Xavier's dream and she organized the Askani against Apocalypse.

Everyone stresses how Ray takes after her mom, (for instance, Rachel's line in X-Men: Phoenix Askani Rising #3 " My father always told me not to let my emotions rule my decisions in battle. Too bad I take after my mother.)

But it seems to me that she gets a lot of her angst from been burdened with her dad's sense of duty and responsibility. And then Ray burdened Nate with the Askani religion she created.

[X_fan08]

In The Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix, Rachel Summers (Mother Askani) transfered Jean & Scott to other bodies in the Askani timeline to help raise Nathan, since she was dying and Clan Askani had been all but been destroyed.

Scott and Jean spend 10 years raising Nathan, but during that time they're on the run and hiding, not exactly in a situation to teach Nathan anything other than controling his powers. Scott was also kind of distant with Nathan, and he was definitely closer to Jean. Also, Nate thought his real parents abandoned him, and then thought that Scott & Jean (Redd & Slym) had also abandoned him (when Rachel died, Scott & Jean were rather aburptly pulled back to their own time), and it wasn't until Nate had spent enough time with Scott & Jean that he figure out who they were the people who had raised him.

Scott's leadership skills probably show in Rachel, more than Nathan. Nate's a take charge kind of guy, and he was a leader in the Askani future and did well with the New Mutants, but his social skills leave a lot to be desired and he's never going to be able to lead the X-Men. Rachel's the one the can give the inspiring speeches and can organize people. She's the one that convinced the member of Excalibur to carry on Xavier's dream and she organized the Askani against Apocalypse.

Everyone stresses how Ray takes after her mom, (for instance, Rachel's line in X-Men: Phoenix Askani Rising #3 " My father always told me not to let my emotions rule my decisions in battle. Too bad I take after my mother.)

But it seems to me that she gets a lot of her angst from been burdened with her dad's sense of duty and responsibility. And then Ray burdened Nate with the Askani religion she created.

cyclops has the worst social skills ever. always serious about everything, stuck-up, and boy scoutt like. Nate gets that whole serious man, loner thing from scott. but the faults of scott i dont see.

[ghost113]

wait isn't this thread about the x-men with sabretooth and cable and cannonball, iceamn , rogue and mystigue, how did cyclops get in here.

[spark627]

you read my mind.

so any ideas as to how sabertooth is connected to all of this?? wrong place, wrong time maybe? and why northstar, what made them go into SHIELD, i love this story (and esp rogue) I cant wait for it all to come together.

[ghost113]

I'm really not sure, but last time we saw sabretooth he was chop into klumps by wolverine so i really don't know how he got all the way to mexico.

[spark627]

i heard about that, what issue did the happen in?

[ghost113]

A few issues back when the new brotherhood attacked the mansion.

[X_fan08]

with exdous or am i to far back?

[ProfeZZor X]

you read my mind.

so any ideas as to how sabertooth is connected to all of this?? wrong place, wrong time maybe? and why northstar, what made them go into SHIELD, i love this story (and esp rogue) I cant wait for it all to come together.

My guess is that Sabertooth is somewhat of an informant. And in the end, his knowledge of the inner workings of the Children will be revealed 3/4 towards the end of this story arc. Otherwise, people like us will continue to guess why he's there until the cows come home. Even though Carey already spelled it out in his interview before he started, that very same thing I just mentioned: Sabertooth has information, but also needs the protection of the X-Men until the Children and their organization are defeated.

[El Bastardo]

I was going to answer the "What's Sabes got to do with it?" question with a hypothesis about the Fake-Xorn-Magneto-Really-Xorneto-Magneto-Xorn-NODAMMITHE'SXORN's Brother, but then remembered that Sabeschunks never got sucked into the crrrrrrrrrazy black hole head. Alas. :(

Instead! Since we NEVER saw the chunks of Sabretooth that were left scattered by Wolverine, maybe it never happened. Maybe Toothy held Wolvie at arm's length long enough that the short lil Canuck tired himself out with all his swinging (if you can picture this, laugh; you get a cookie!), and then ran away. Wolvie, in fear of losing his X-machismo, quickly made up the story that he chopped Sabretooth into so many pieces that noone'd be able to find them. Given that Lorna was crazy at the time, Iceman a stupid dick, Havok having baby brother issues, and Rogue still mopey over Gambit's eyes, everyone believed him - for he is X-machismo Wolverine-Logan-James! Following this line of thought, in the case that someone did question, Wolvie just flexed his hairy arms and repeated his fabricated story.

So, clearly, Sabretooth was returned because he wants protection not only from the freakazoid Children, but from Wolverine - and he wants to taunt Mr. Hairy Midget should he come in contact with him, and possibly watch him tire himself out again.

[Prettyboy]

I was going to answer the "What's Sabes got to do with it?" question with a hypothesis about the Fake-Xorn-Magneto-Really-Xorneto-Magneto-Xorn-NODAMMITHE'SXORN's Brother, but then remembered that Sabeschunks never got sucked into the crrrrrrrrrazy black hole head. Alas. :(

Instead! Since we NEVER saw the chunks of Sabretooth that were left scattered by Wolverine, maybe it never happened. Maybe Toothy held Wolvie at arm's length long enough that the short lil Canuck tired himself out with all his swinging (if you can picture this, laugh; you get a cookie!), and then ran away. Wolvie, in fear of losing his X-machismo, quickly made up the story that he chopped Sabretooth into so many pieces that noone'd be able to find them. Given that Lorna was crazy at the time, Iceman a stupid dick, Havok having baby brother issues, and Rogue still mopey over Gambit's eyes, everyone believed him - for he is X-machismo Wolverine-Logan-James! Following this line of thought, in the case that someone did question, Wolvie just flexed his hairy arms and repeated his fabricated story.

So, clearly, Sabretooth was returned because he wants protection not only from the freakazoid Children, but from Wolverine - and he wants to taunt Mr. Hairy Midget should he come in contact with him, and possibly watch him tire himself out again.

That sounds clever and all, I just have one question...


Huh????????????????????

lol


________________
I'm not a registered user, I'm a functioning user.
"Shouldn't we be counting the days until you-know-who returns from the white-hot you-know-what?" Psylocke Uncanny X-Men 460

[Colossal Spoons]

I wonder if/when Sabes' healing factor will return to 100% If there was ever a time for Wolverine to pick a fight, it'd be noe :p

[Balian]

I haven't been reading since Mystique was posing as a student at the mansion. What's been happening since and is it worth getting back into?

[X_fan08]

I haven't been reading since Mystique was posing as a student at the mansion. What's been happening since and is it worth getting back into?

when she was foxx and gambit and her got busy in the shower or somthin and emma was sex therapist for rouge and gambit

[Balian]

How old are the characters at the moment? Gambit, Rogue, etc.

[ghost113]

late twenties early thirties I think.

[ProfeZZor X]

late twenties early thirties I think.

Call it bad fashion sense, but she actually looked a lot older during her first few appearances.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

wait, i thought rogue was like a year older than kitty or something like that. and kitty's like 21 or something, right?

[Prettyboy]

How old are the characters at the moment? Gambit, Rogue, etc.

We will never know the answer to that question!

[spark627]

rogue is only a few years older then kitty, logan said so in an issue. if kitty is 21 then rogue is prob 23/24

[Balian]

I'd guess Gambit's around 28?

[Brainiac 8]

I haven't been reading since Mystique was posing as a student at the mansion. What's been happening since and is it worth getting back into?

This arc is a good jumping on point for you then. That horrible writer is gone, and so far we have been given two issues of X-goodness that gives me hope for the future of the franchise.:up:

[Balian]

This arc is a good jumping on point for you then. That horrible writer is gone, and so far we have been given two issues of X-goodness that gives me hope for the future of the franchise.:up:Is Gambit a horseman at the moment or something like that?

[Brainiac 8]

Is Gambit a horseman at the moment or something like that?

No, they beat Apocalypse, and Gambit and Sunfire went to brokeback China.:p

Seriously though, he is off the X-Men and out of the mansion. I want him to come back when a good writer knows what to do with him, and writes him in character again, not the love sick puppy loser he has been.:o :down

So far though, the new team is good, the characterization is spot on, and this is the first time Rogue and Iceman have been in character in years.:up: :)

Great stuff, I can't wait.

[Balian]

No, they beat Apocalypse, and Gambit and Sunfire went to brokeback China.:p

Seriously though, he is off the X-Men and out of the mansion. I want him to come back when a good writer knows what to do with him, and writes him in character again, not the love sick puppy loser he has been.:o :down

So far though, the new team is good, the characterization is spot on, and this is the first time Rogue and Iceman have been in character in years.:up: :)

Great stuff, I can't wait.Thanks for filling me in.

[Brainiac 8]

Thanks for filling me in.

No prob, if you missed the Apoc story, you didn't miss anything.

The only thing of note I should add for your benefit is that Sinister showed up at the very end and said that since Gambit was no longer an X-Man, Sinister now has plans for him.

That may lead to something interesting if the right writer continues the story.:up:

[Specter313]

wait, i thought rogue was like a year older than kitty or something like that. and kitty's like 21 or something, right?

Kitty is believed to be around 18 or 19.

[X_fan08]

they should be way older. but i like the whole ever youthful x-men.

[spark627]

Kitty is believed to be around 18 or 19.

no, kitty has been in college, seen drinking alcohol and worked as a bartender, so she is at least 21

[Quicksilver]

I would say she's around that age as well.

[X_fan08]

lets get back to x-men. does any one think that gambit will join the team. where is gambit anyway

[El Bastardo]

lets get back to x-men. does any one think that gambit will join the team. where is gambit anyway

Dude, learn to read other users' posts.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

i dont thaink gambit will join the team(mostly hoping) i forgot to say something i didn't like about issue 188. rogue says after scott says about losing remy...

"I didn't lose him, Scott. we're just--he just made a wrong choice, is all. but i'm gonna be here when he comes back. believe it."

i hope she means that when he comes back that she's gonna kick his ass because if she takes him back, i will now and forever think rogue is weak. i'm sorry if i offend any women, but i cannot respect any woman who basically says they NEED a man. she needs to move on. period.

[Specter313]

no, kitty has been in college, seen drinking alcohol and worked as a bartender, so she is at least 21

You only have to be 18 to serve alcohol. She may have been in college, but it wasn't long, and who the heck didn't drink underage when they were in college? She's not 21 yet.

[Brainiac 8]

lets get back to x-men. does any one think that gambit will join the team. where is gambit anyway


Dude, I just gave a very easy to read explanation on where Gambit is:o , and no, I don't think we'll see him for a while.

[The Cajun]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Onslaught_01.jpg

Is it true this dude is coming back?:confused:

[Prettyboy]

You only have to be 18 to serve alcohol. She may have been in college, but it wasn't long, and who the heck didn't drink underage when they were in college? She's not 21 yet.

In Chicago you gotta be 21.

[Brainiac 8]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Onslaught_01.jpg

Is it true this dude is coming back?:confused:


They are doing a special limited series, it's not going to be in X-Men.

[ProfeZZor X]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Onslaught_01.jpg

Is it true this dude is coming back?:confused:

Someone please remind me how Onslaught was actually destroyed? :confused: :confused: :confused: ... It's been a while for me.

Didn't his demise have something to do with Franklin Richards?

And as much as I hate to compare Emma Frost's posession of Iceman to Xavier & Magneto, but why didn't she go through the same ordeal with his body and powers? Both characters (Xavier & Emma) absorbed the psyche of the other person, but Xavier took it to an "all powerful" level. And both Iceman and Magneto are considered as Omega class mutants (at least Iceman is, anyway). After Emma found out that her Hellions were destroyed, she could have gone on the same kind of rampage in Iceman's body (which could have been a greeat story arc).... What do you guys think?

[Mother_Askani]

Kitty is about 19 or 20 now. (despite Alan Davis' line "I'm barely 16" line in X-Men 379, which seemed like bashing the whole Pryde/Wisdom relationship to me). Claremont meant to show that Pryde was 18 by having her work in a bar, to finally get past that 'is she legal' debate. But there is no way she's 21. She turned 15 in Excalibur 26.

Rogue was 17 when she joined the X-Men (Uncanny 171). So she's about 3 years older than Pryde.

[Brainiac 8]

Someone please remind me how Onslaught was actually destroyed? :confused: :confused: :confused: ... It's been a while for me.

Didn't his demise have something to do with Franklin Richards?

And as much as I hate to compare Emma Frost's posession of Iceman to Xavier & Magneto, but why didn't she go through the same ordeal with his body and powers? Both characters (Xavier & Emma) absorbed the psyche of the other person, but Xavier took it to an "all powerful" level. And both Iceman and Magneto are considered as Omega class mutants (at least Iceman is, anyway). After Emma found out that her Hellions were destroyed, she could have gone on the same kind of rampage in Iceman's body (which could have been a greeat story arc).... What do you guys think?


Onslaught was ultimately beaten by Hulk. Jean Grey turned off Banner and made Hulk revert to Savage Hulk, and he and Onslaught fought, and well you know...the angrier Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets. He hit Onslaught so hard he destroyed his physical body.

Then his Psychic essence was left and started growing to take over. All the non-mutant heroes jumped inside the Onslaught's energy, so there would be something physical to attack, then the Mutants/X-Men attacked the energy, destroying it.

All the heroes inside appearently died, but Franklin Richards actually created a pocket reality where all the heroes were thrown, thus being saved.

How the heroes got back is a whole 'nother story.:p ;)

[ProfeZZor X]

Is it true that X-Men #190 has been pushed back to August 30th instead of coming out on the 23rd?

[ghost113]

if it is true that's so not cool

[ProfeZZor X]

if it is true that's so not cool

Today was the day I had access to the preview copy, but I guess I'll have to wait.

Someone on another X-Men forum told me it would be a week late. I have no reason not to believe them.

[cardslinger]

I just heard from another source that X-Men #190 has been moved to the
30th. At least it is just a week.

[Exploding Boy]

You only have to be 18 to serve alcohol. She may have been in college, but it wasn't long, and who the heck didn't drink underage when they were in college? She's not 21 yet.
And hasn't she been taking College classes since she was 13 or something?

[Specter313]

And hasn't she been taking College classes since she was 13 or something?

Yeah, knowing her, she could have been getting college credits since she was young and graduated early.

[Balian]

How quick can we expect Gambit to return?
I didn't pick up the Apocalypse run but Brainiac told me he's with Sinister right at the end.

[ghost113]

yeah him and sunfire

[gothicFLAVOURS]

How quick can we expect Gambit to return?
I didn't pick up the Apocalypse run but Brainiac told me he's with Sinister right at the end.
I just hope it's not soon, because Rogue sucks when he's around

[ProfeZZor X]

Cover for #193

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/marvelcomics/200611/XMEN193COVER_400.jpg

Written by MIKE CAREY
Pencils and Cover by CHRIS BACHALO
"SUPERNOVAS"
It's fight night! The X-Men battle it out with their mysterious new foes, The Children, right above the Xavier Institute! And when the dust clears, what decision does Rogue make that will shake the X-Men to their core?! Part 6 (of 6)!
32 PGS./Rated A ...$2.99

[spark627]

cool cover, too bad everyones body is out of proportion (look at rogues arm)

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Yeah, it's a cool cover, but everything is too cramped. There are so many characters in one cover there.

[Balian]

Is Bachalo going to be regular? I like his stuff quite alot, his Gambit isn't bad either, although it doesn't look like Gambit's going to be in it for a while.
That cover looks cool, proportions aside.

[Exploding Boy]

cool cover, too bad everyones body is out of proportion (look at rogues arm)
Hahaha. Its tiny

[Brainiac 8]

I only want Gambit back if the writer is actually going to write him well, and get him out of this silly love sick puppy moron thing he has been on for the last couple of years.:o

[spark627]

who is the guy with the tattoo attacking sabertooth? i dont recognize him

[Brainiac 8]

I'm thinking one of the Children, I don't know if they have shown him yet.:confused:

[Specter313]

who is the guy with the tattoo attacking sabertooth? i dont recognize him

That's Perro, he debuted in the last issue and was the guy to go with Serafina to take Northstar and Aurora to the school.

The other Children's names are:

Serafina - Black hair, purple outfit, wires coming out of her
Aguja - Blonde hair, green outfit, fires energy blasts, getting her hair pulled by Rogue on the cover.
Sangre - Light blue skin with circles all over himself, apparent leader, some kind of bubble attacks, just behind Cannonball on that cover
Fuego - guy who looks like Feverpitch, all covered in fire wearing a coat

[ProfeZZor X]

Is it me, or does Bachalo have a fascination with Sabertooth on his covers?...

It's been that way since he started on this run.

[Exploding Boy]

Are those chunks of Iceman flying around?

[Brainiac 8]

I'm ok with it, it's about time they did something with Sabertooth, other than standard slash fodder for wolverine.


Something tells me that Iceman will be the one to take out bubble/water man.:)

Freeze him from the inside out.:up:

[ProfeZZor X]

Are those chunks of Iceman flying around?

It's almost as if he's looking in "first person" mode, the way his hand is above, and bits and pieces of him on the right. Then again, Bachalo is known for making floating ice chips around Iceman.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

I wonder if the Children's names have something to do with their powers or origins. They're the spanish for Needle (Aguja), Dog (Perro), Blood (Sangre), Fire (Fuego) and Seraphin (Serafina). In Fuego it's quite obvious, but what about the rest...

[ghost113]

I think that cover is freakin awesome besides the proprtions it kicks major ass.

[ProfeZZor X]

What's the point of Sabertooth bearing the chains if he's obviously helping the X-Men. I know it makes for a great costume accessory, but it's not like he's a prisoner of theirs.

Also, what or who is Mystique shooting at? From the angle of where she's pointing, it looks like it's aimed at Iceman, because there's no one in front of her. Unless it's suppose to be Perro she's aiming at.

[ProfeZZor X]

Anyone get a hold of the preview copy for #190 yet? ... I haven't made it over to my comic book store quite yet.

[ghost113]

she's shooting at perro

[OutcryX]

After Age of Apocalypse i have always been a fan of Sabretooth as a goodguy. That whole backstory of his was endearing. (Now if only he had Wildchild on a leach to throw at people). So I am glad to seem him on the side of the angels in this arc, if only for a limited run again. He was great in X-Factor as a "coerced" agent. Mystique too. But after Sabretooth, Mystique, and Juggernaut all switch hitting for the X-Men...no more bad guys turned good dammit!

Oh yeah..who is that chick on Perro's back? is that the Sentinel chick?

[spark627]

well i dont think sabertooth is sticking around, just for the current mission.

[ghost113]

Outcry yes that is the sentinel chick. I'm not sure I think Sabretooth will stick around after the x-men save his life, he will probably just stick around the mansion until the mansion is no longer a refugee camp.

[squeekness]

After Age of Apocalypse i have always been a fan of Sabretooth as a goodguy. That whole backstory of his was endearing. (Now if only he had Wildchild on a leach to throw at people). So I am glad to seem him on the side of the angels in this arc, if only for a limited run again. He was great in X-Factor as a "coerced" agent. Mystique too. But after Sabretooth, Mystique, and Juggernaut all switch hitting for the X-Men...no more bad guys turned good dammit! I too am a big fan of the AoA Sabretooth/ Wildchild combo. I thought it was nicely done and I have no problem with Sabretooth being the gruff and reckless semi-good guy. I liked it when he was in X-Factor like this and this new line up reminds me of that time period.

[ProfeZZor X]

Preview for X-Men #190:

http://popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40162

[X_fan08]

thanks pro.x

[ProfeZZor X]

thanks pro.x

Welcome..

:mad: .. Looks like Bachalo turned Bobby into snow after that explosion... What a jip. :mad: ... Maybe that his natural mutant reflex whenever he receives any bodily injuries. :confused:

[ghost113]

THanks but that preview was kind of weak.

[ProfeZZor X]

THanks but that preview was kind of weak.

Weak?!?!?!?! ..... This one strong 5 pages so far.

Guthrie is on fire on both pages... Hence the charred toothpick in his mouth, and short sleeved shirt, and it almost looks like he reversed the effects of the fire to his flesh. Although it looks like Iceman managed to snow up as he was being blown up (bottom left, page 2), but disentigrated into chunks of snow on page 4.

I don't know about you, but these few 5 pages are pretty strong to start off with. Imagine what the rest of this book looks like.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

That preview is pretty cool. I don't like what they've done with Iceman but the story looks great. I'm glad they remember Emma can't use her psi-powers when she's in diamond form. Not all of the writers do it.

[Generation Lee]

This book gets better and better I mean seriously its got diagloue like CC but it doesn't go on and on and on about things we know from the previous issues and the action matches the the dialouge in amount.

Liking the Emma and the Telepathy althoug Weadon had her use it it Diamond form. Although I like to see her become the cold hearted b**ch she was at the start of Morrisons run when she used her diamond form. But then again this is were the remainder of his squad step up so I may not get that.

[ProfeZZor X]

This book gets better and better I mean seriously its got diagloue like CC but it doesn't go on and on and on about things we know from the previous issues and the action matches the the dialouge in amount.

Liking the Emma and the Telepathy althoug Weadon had her use it it Diamond form. Although I like to see her become the cold hearted b**ch she was at the start of Morrisons run when she used her diamond form. But then again this is were the remainder of his squad step up so I may not get that.

I agree.

[GreatWhiteWhale]

Hmm..

Even though this seems to be a very nice time to be an X-fan in terms of the creators on the main(ish) books (Brubaker, Carey and Whedon), the only one I've been reading is AXM. Deadly Genesis didn't really grab me so I decided to give UXM a miss, although I might pick it up later.

Looking at the preview, this looks awesome! Was never a real big fan of Chris Bachalo, but I can definetely deal with those pages. Also, seeing Scott and Collosus featured made this feel like it was a part of the X-Men universe, rather just being the book that features characters v,w,x,y and z.

Plus, the storyline sounds actually unique and interesting! And, while I was not initially a big fan of the line-up, i can definetely give it a chance. (Someone want to explain to me the whole Cable thing?). And if Carey fulfills his promise to healthily develop Iceman, Rogue and possibly Gambit, then I will swear by him forever.

Might start picking this up then, will have to hunt around for the back issues though.

[Balian]

Hmm..

Even though this seems to be a very nice time to be an X-fan in terms of the creators on the main(ish) books (Brubaker, Carey and Whedon), the only one I've been reading is AXM. Deadly Genesis didn't really grab me so I decided to give UXM a miss, although I might pick it up later.

Looking at the preview, this looks awesome! Was never a real big fan of Chris Bachalo, but I can definetely deal with those pages. Also, seeing Scott and Collosus featured made this feel like it was a part of the X-Men universe, rather just being the book that features characters v,w,x,y and z.

Plus, the storyline sounds actually unique and interesting! And, while I was not initially a big fan of the line-up, i can definetely give it a chance. (Someone want to explain to me the whole Cable thing?). And if Carey fulfills his promise to healthily develop Iceman, Rogue and possibly Gambit, then I will swear by him forever.

Might start picking this up then, will have to hunt around for the back issues though.I've been quite unsure about X-Men lately but with Bachalo on pencils, I'm definitely starting to pick this up again. Now all I want is Gambit to come back and for him to be how he used to be, not the lovesick guy of recent years.

http://popcultureshock.com/2006/40162/x-men-190_cover.jpg

[spark627]

we dont know how/why cable shows up... we find out next week though

[ghost113]

Let me check out the preview one more time and Who cares Cable is not that cool anyway I really don't want him to join this team.

Re-lookeed at the preview, I didn't even realize that was guthrie.

[ProfeZZor X]

For those that need to know some major... MAJOR SPOILAGE, listen up:

Cannonball & Serafina:
Remember the "disturbing erotic experience" comment Mike Carey made? That girl is Serafina, and she's the one that takes a liking to Sam, and begins to have her way with him in her own special way (by tapping into a comatose Lady Mastermind's powers), by the end of of this issue. I guess we can expect to have poor Mr. Gunthrie's mind severly messed with next issue.

Northstar & Aurora:
Oh, you are in for a treat! (And maybe a bit of a let down) Aurora and Northstar show quite shockingly just how dangerous a power like superspeed can be. They both get taken down, but not without doing a whole lot of damage first. Aurora takes out X-23 by stabbing her fingers right through her at warp speed, and cleaves Cessily (Mercury) completely in two before being taken out in a very manipulative and very cool (pun!) way. Jean-Paul comes face to face with Anole (no he doesn't die ), before engaging in a crazy high-speed battle with Rogue. He shows her how it's done, but just as he moves in for the kill, Cable comes in at the nick of time.

Astonishing Members:
If your definition of "starring" is "being used as cannon fodder" or more precisely "as optic-blast fodder", that is precisely what they do. That scene in the preview is the only action scene that the Astonishing cast is in. Emma briefly fills in the usual "resident telepath of the mansion" role later, but not without falling victim to a snarky comment by Rogue.

Cable:
After saving Rogue, he has a one-on-one interrogation session with Creed, and manages to get him to confess that he's running from The Children because he knows who they are, and that now the X-men have also joined him on the endangered species list.

Bobby’s rescue:
All of the X-Men get entangled in some pretty dire situations. Rogue heads down to the basement to secure Sabretooth, but runs into JP. Cannonball narrowly escapes being incinerated. But Mystique is the one who helps Bobby to pull himself together, through an unwitnessed "humanitarian act". Whether something will come out of it is anyone's guess.

Northstar & Wolverine issues:
Mike Carey doesn’t do that in this issue. JP'll have to be conscious for that.

Iceman’s comeback:
While the process wasn't really shown in detail, Bobby does explain what happened to himself. Don't expect a lot though, since this is Bobby we're talking about, and not Hank McCoy. XD Although, I think it'll be enough to sate your curiousity.

By turning into steam, then reforming into ice, and then shifting back into human form with some..."assistance" from Mystique. Not without a whole lot of difficulty though, he lost a whole lot of nutrients in the process and a bit of his body's base density (I think that's what it was), so now he's got to take a nice, long soak in a sealed nutrient bath

He then saves Mystique from Aurora while in vapor form, then gets saved by Raven, has some small talk with Sam, then gets analyzed and cared for by both Hank and Karima (who now has her hair!)

Lady Mastermind:
Lady Mastermind remains in a coma, but still ends up getting used by Serafina to mess with Cannonball. And yes, a lot happens after those six pages.

That’s it for now…. It’s up to you to contain yourselves until #190 comes out to get the visuals of what I just explained.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Wow, that's so cool. Thanx for the info Prof.X

I'm really looking forward to this issue since it looks like it's going to be full of a lot of great action and some answers we're all looking for.

[Colossal Spoons]

Wow, I'm so glad that I enjoy reading Adjectiveless again :D

Those spoilers were pretty interesting; though my biggest concern is that Mercury is alright.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

^ I don't think they'd kill her in a title that's not the one that features her mainly (New X-Men). I'm pretty sure her body will be back together again.

[ProfeZZor X]

Wow, that's so cool. Thanx for the info Prof.X

I'm really looking forward to this issue since it looks like it's going to be full of a lot of great action and some answers we're all looking for.

If action is what you want, there is tons of it. And Cable does a fairly decent job at making his entrance. Bobby, being my biggest concern, is finally shown in a new light. Carey's use of Iceman's powers is unparallelled by any other standards. He hasn't been this powerful since X-Men Forever... Vote Carey for President. :up: .... Or take over Queseda's job, at least.

[ghost113]

when does 190 come out next week right?

[gothicFLAVOURS]

when does 190 come out next week right?
Next week, yes

[OutcryX]

If action is what you want, there is tons of it. And Cable does a fairly decent job at making his entrance. Bobby, being my biggest concern, is finally shown in a new light. Carey's use of Iceman's powers is unparallelled by any other standards. He hasn't been this powerful since X-Men Forever... Vote Carey for President. :up: .... Or take over Queseda's job, at least.


yeah bobby is finally starting to exhibit some Omega power level..kinda like his AoA counterpart

[ProfeZZor X]

yeah bobby is finally starting to exhibit some Omega power level..kinda like his AoA counterpart

From what I gather, just on this issue alone, he'll be doing a lot more than what you've seen before in both AoA and the 616 universe combined.

[Brainiac 8]

I think X-Men is finally a book to be enjoyed, and coming back from the hole Milligan put it into.:up: :)

[gothicFLAVOURS]

yeah bobby is finally starting to exhibit some Omega power level..kinda like his AoA counterpart
Yeah, it was about time. Since Emma took over his body he's been hanging around taking pity of himself because he couldn't control his powers in the way Emma could. I'm glad they remembered he's an Omega

[Colossal Spoons]

Yeah, that steam trick sounds cool. I'm also glad they applied some biological drawbacks to it too; the whole loss of body nutrients.

[ProfeZZor X]

Yeah, it was about time. Since Emma took over his body he's been hanging around taking pity of himself because he couldn't control his powers in the way Emma could. I'm glad they remembered he's an Omega

Nothing personal, but please don't use that whole "Emma Frost" incident as a reference to his power potential. If you search the "Official Iceman" thread, you'd see that he's far exceeded anything Emma could even dream of, using his body. There are even tons of pictures to back it up. Mostly issues that took place BEFORE she took over his body.

It just bugs the hell out of me when someone doesn't understand a character, and bases one situation in time to sum up their knowledge on that character and what they can do.

And actually, Carey hasn't really scratched the surface of his abilities yet. What you guys see in this issue will shock you, but overall, it's mostly to gain back your trust in these characters, and what the true X-Men use to be about.... Heroes, and real people.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

^ I was not just refering to that exact situation. Bobby has asked Emma for help a couple of times after that incident so she could help him master his powers and he has been remembering that incident any time he could not control them. It's just how some writers decided to write him

[ghost113]

Bobby has done things by him self without the help of emma like during the draco storyline

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Yeah, I know. He's progressed a lot since that incident with Emma, but there are a coulple of things Emma did when she was in his body that I haven't seen Bobby doing, like when she made his bodily mass to deposit in the river and reconstitute miles away in a couple of minutes. Maybe he did it in some issue I didn't read after that (with so many titles it's quite impossible to keep up-to-date with every plot). I'm just saying they haven't made him use his full potential yet.

[ProfeZZor X]

Yeah, I know. He's progressed a lot since that incident with Emma, but there are a coulple of things Emma did when she was in his body that I haven't seen Bobby doing, like when she made his bodily mass to deposit in the river and reconstitute miles away in a couple of minutes. Maybe he did it in some issue I didn't read after that (with so many titles it's quite impossible to keep up-to-date with every plot). I'm just saying they haven't made him use his full potential yet.

You apparently haven't read "X-Men Forever" then.... He did the same exact thing... Only at a greater distance.

Again, if you looked at the Official Iceman thread, and scanned through the many pages, you'd see the exact same image I'm describing. Besides, she's only done three things with his body during that time.

1) Melted into the river.
2) Reformed a chest wound from gunfire.
3) Slithered across town using his/her lower torso.

And none of these things hardly constitutes her as being a better Iceman than he is, compared to the other things he's done, because he's already done two of these things listed before she did.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

^ No, I didn't read it

((shuts his mouth and goes away ashamed))

Ok, now being serious, I'm sorry about that because I didn't read it before. I'm just glad they're giving Bobby a more important role since he's been quite absent with Apocalypse and that Gambit-Rogue love thing in the previous storyarc of Adjectiveless X-Men

[ProfeZZor X]

^ No, I didn't read it

((shuts his mouth and goes away ashamed))

Ok, now being serious, I'm sorry about that because I didn't read it before. I'm just glad they're giving Bobby a more important role since he's been quite absent with Apocalypse and that Gambit-Rogue love thing in the previous storyarc of Adjectiveless X-Men

That's okay.... It happens.

All I can recommend is that you keep an open mind... People tend to defend their favorite characters fiercely around here... (and other forums)... I'll admit, I'm one of them.

Although I will agree with you that I'm glad Carey is using him in a more promising role.

[Valechan]

Is it me, or does Serafina look too much like Sage??? :p

[sault13]

New to the forum. Been MIA for a while (I'm military). #186 was the last book i read. Can someone give me a quick rundown of what’s been going on before i try and jump back into things? The post are a little to hard to follow and Marvel.com is sluggish on updates.

Thanks!

[spark627]

New to the forum. Been MIA for a while (I'm military). #186 was the last book i read. Can someone give me a quick rundown of what’s been going on before i try and jump back into things? The post are a little to hard to follow and Marvel.com is sluggish on updates.

Thanks!

Basically, Gambit and Sunfire left together during the ****ty Milligan Apocolypse arc.

Careys arc starts with Sabertooth running from something, he is being hunted by a group called The Children, we dont know who they are or what they want. Somehow they have taken away his healing powers, so he is quite scared. Rogue and a group of X-Men are investigating a hospital which is trying to see if the mutant gene can work like a disease. Bobby and Sam find Karima and Lady Mastermind being used as test subjects while Rogue beats the crap out of a bunch of guys who mention that their boss is named Pan. They bring Karima and LM back to the mansion, meanwhile the Chilidren and still stalking Sabertooth and blow up an entire town and leave a little girl with the memory that the X-Men did it. Sabertooth goes to the mansion for sanctuary and gets questions. Scott tells Rogue he wants her as leader of a squad, she picks Bobby and Sam for her team and Mystique so she can keep an eye on her.

Sabertooth gets questioned while Mystique poses as Xaiver while being question by Val, bc Xaiver is off in space with his team searching for Vulcan. The Children break into a SHIELD facility where Northstar is being deprogammed of his Hand brainwashing. They break him out and program him to fight with them and to kill the X-Men. One of the children, Serafina (who can basically do anything) take the security tapes and replaces themselves with the X-Men, so it looks like they broke in and killed everyone. Northstar gets his sister Aurora, who is trying to kill herself at the time. They then go to the mansion with the children, Serafina powers the twins using the sun...I think... and they break in and attack Bobby and Sam.

The next issue we leanr who/what the Children are and Cable comes around. It is a good story, the art is cool and action-packed. Light years better then anything Milligan crapped out.

[ghost113]

welcome to the hype Sault13

[OutcryX]

Basically, Gambit and Sunfire left together during the ****ty Milligan Apocolypse arc.

Careys arc starts with Sabertooth running from something, he is being hunted by a group called The Children, we dont know who they are or what they want. Somehow they have taken away his healing powers, so he is quite scared. Rogue and a group of X-Men are investigating a hospital which is trying to see if the mutant gene can work like a disease. Bobby and Sam find Karima and Lady Mastermind being used as test subjects while Rogue beats the crap out of a bunch of guys who mention that their boss is named Pan. They bring Karima and LM back to the mansion, meanwhile the Chilidren and still stalking Sabertooth and blow up an entire town and leave a little girl with the memory that the X-Men did it. Sabertooth goes to the mansion for sanctuary and gets questions. Scott tells Rogue he wants her as leader of a squad, she picks Bobby and Sam for her team and Mystique so she can keep an eye on her.

Sabertooth gets questioned while Mystique poses as Xaiver while being question by Val, bc Xaiver is off in space with his team searching for Vulcan. The Children break into a SHIELD facility where Northstar is being deprogammed of his Hand brainwashing. They break him out and program him to fight with them and to kill the X-Men. One of the children, Serafina (who can basically do anything) take the security tapes and replaces themselves with the X-Men, so it looks like they broke in and killed everyone. Northstar gets his sister Aurora, who is trying to kill herself at the time. They then go to the mansion with the children, Serafina powers the twins using the sun...I think... and they break in and attack Bobby and Sam.

The next issue we leanr who/what the Children are and Cable comes around. It is a good story, the art is cool and action-packed. Light years better then anything Milligan crapped out.


Dayum...thats right fine storytelling right there! Better than all of Milligan...by the way...What happened to Pulse? and at least Milligan brought the cool as ice AoA Sunfire costume to the 616...but the changing of Gambit left me feeling...did he get a boost in powers or was he just "Cajun blackened"?

[spark627]

pulse just disapeared. milligan didnt give him any resolution (shock huh?) and carey isnt dealing with him.

basically milligan didnt finish any story. why did mystique want to break up gambit and rogue? why was lorna so afraid of doop in space but was all about him when he was on earth? why was apocolypse such a pussy? and whats up with all the triangles: bobby/alex/lorna, gambit/rogue/logan, gambit/mystique/rogue. gambit/rogue/pulse....

i HATE milligan and love what carey is doing

[mightiest_mortal]

I think Remy can produce an odour now that causes people to pass out.

umm.. serious...


Im actually really liking X-Men at the moment. I know theyre all just starting their runs so i shouldnt jinx it, but this is the first time in a long time that all of the X-Titles have been on Top form.

Iceman.. i think hes on the right track in this title. The hard thing with a funny character is that the writer has to be funny to pull it off. Icemans a bit hit or miss at the moment, and im not sure about his angry moment with Sabretooth... but as the writer warms in he should get smoother.

[OutcryX]

I think Remy can produce an odour now that causes people to pass out.

umm.. serious...


Im actually really liking X-Men at the moment. I know theyre all just starting their runs so i shouldnt jinx it, but this is the first time in a long time that all of the X-Titles have been on Top form.

Iceman.. i think hes on the right track in this title. The hard thing with a funny character is that the writer has to be funny to pull it off. Icemans a bit hit or miss at the moment, and im not sure about his angry moment with Sabretooth... but as the writer warms in he should get smoother.

So Gambit can now charge kinetic energy and...emit noxious gas.....wow. I figured that Apocalype would have "healed" him and given him full access to his abilities...oh well


Unless they go the movie route and depress the iceman character...which would be bad...very bad

[spark627]

yea, gambits gas power was ... ummm... what? i have no idea what milligan was smoking while he was writing. wtf was golgotha again??? i still dont understand lol

[mightiest_mortal]

yea, gambits gas power was ... ummm... what? i have no idea what milligan was smoking while he was writing. wtf was golgotha again??? i still dont understand lol
Yeah i know.
Its a bit of a shame though. Gambit being transformed by Apocalypse.. theres sooo much that they could have done with him. When Warren was changed he was blue with huge dagger firing metal wings for years, but all they do to Gambit is change him so that hes black. Its a bit disapointing.

[Balian]

Hopefully when he does come back, the writer will know what to do with him.

[ghost113]

And hopefully bring back the mellow womanizer we have have all grown to love.

[ProfeZZor X]

SPOILER QUESTION:

After Bobby was evaporated in X-Men Forever, he eventually reconstituted himself back into steam/vapour, then solid ice, then at the end of it all, back to his flesh form...

Why is it that all of a sudden he lost a lot of his body's nutrients this time around (in all three forms) versus back then? It's not like he needed to be hospitalized when it was all over... I guess Carey is just taking this in a more biological and scientific approach.... Interesting. :o

P.S. - Does anyone have any idea what Serafina was doing to his med-vac machinery while he lay there sleeping?

[mightiest_mortal]

SPOILER QUESTION:

After Bobby was evaporated in X-Men Forever, he eventually reconstituted himself back into steam/vapour, then solid ice, then at the end of it all, back to his flesh form...

Why is it that all of a sudden he lost a lot of his body's nutrients this time around (in all three forms) versus back then? It's not like he needed to be hospitalized when it was all over... I guess Carey is just taking this in a more biological and scientific approach.... Interesting. :o

P.S. - Does anyone have any idea what Serafina was doing to his med-vac machinery while he lay there sleeping?

Well im not entirely sure if Forever is actually in continuity or not anymore. It was stated that it wasn't ages ago by MArvel, but im not sure if theyve changed their mind or not yet.

[ProfeZZor X]

Well im not entirely sure if Forever is actually in continuity or not anymore. It was stated that it wasn't ages ago by MArvel, but im not sure if theyve changed their mind or not yet.

The funny thing is, he went straight into joining Uncanny (Angel, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Chamber) after that experience... So I'm not too sure it wasn't out of the current continuity.

[MoPlaYa43]

The stroy has picked up great since Milligan left...But I cant believe they replaced Larocca with Bachalo....thats a big downgrade IMO

[Balian]

The stroy has picked up great since Milligan left...But I cant believe they replaced Larocca with Bachalo....thats a big downgrade IMOI personally think Bachalo's a worthy replacement.

[ProfeZZor X]

The stroy has picked up great since Milligan left...But I cant believe they replaced Larocca with Bachalo....thats a big downgrade IMO

Please tell me you're kidding about Larocca being better than Bachalo? Looking at goofy facial expressions and upward looking crotch shots is hardly what I would call art.

Then again it could be worse... We could have Scott Lobdell on this book.

[spark627]

i liked larocca in x-treme, but his work in x-men sucked. every woman looked the same, huge chest, huge upper lip and no expression. he also changed rogues hair length in every panel.

[Specter313]

Larocca's a lot better than how Bachalo would usually draw completely disproportionate figures, which he still does most of the time, as well as faces that can barely convey any kind of emotion. If Larocca kept his work the same from the Children of the Atom arc right after the reload, I don't think people would be complaining.

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Larroca's art in x-men was good given the plot he was given IMO

[ProfeZZor X]

Larocca's a lot better than how Bachalo would usually draw completely disproportionate figures, which he still does most of the time, as well as faces that can barely convey any kind of emotion. If Larocca kept his work the same from the Children of the Atom arc right after the reload, I don't think people would be complaining.

There's a lot about his work that I dislike. But most importantly, I disliked his Iceman. I can forgive Bachalo's work, because you know where he's coming from. It's more of an "urban manga" style that you either love or hate. His work was very hard to read during his Ultimate X-Men days, but he's toned it down considerably since then.

Personally, I would have gone with one of the Kuberts, but I'm sure they would have been too expensive to hire.

[Colossal Spoons]

Larocca's work began to deteriorate in X-Men but Bachalo's art hasn't been tolerable since Gen X.

[ProfeZZor X]

Larocca's work began to deteriorate in X-Men but Bachalo's art hasn't been tolerable since Gen X.

Hey, it could be a lot worse... :confused:

[OutcryX]

Please tell me you're kidding about Larocca being better than Bachalo? Looking at goofy facial expressions and upward looking crotch shots is hardly what I would call art.

Then again it could be worse... We could have Scott Lobdell on this book.

yo...what was wrong with Lobdell? I personally was a fan. He wrote and co wrote and was involved in some major events in x-men lore. Phalanx Covenant, Age of Apocalypse, Operation Zero Tolerance, Generation X

[ProfeZZor X]

yo...what was wrong with Lobdell? I personally was a fan. He wrote and co wrote and was involved in some major events in x-men lore. Phalanx Covenant, Age of Apocalypse, Operation Zero Tolerance, Generation X

You ask what's wrong with his work?... Let me count the ways...

...http://uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/cable004.jpg
http://uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/cannonball09.jpg
http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/111704/images/xforce4p1.gif
http://www.nightgig.com/sweatshop/personal/borrowedgroup.jpg[/

[ProfeZZor X]

But wait....... There's more!!!

If you can't find anything wrong with the way he draws people, then I REALLY feel sorry for you. If he was involved in the writing aspect of those stories, then I'll give him credit.... So long as he stays away from a pencil and paper, I'm cool.

http://robliefeld.net/images/xforce/xf10.jpg
http://robliefeld.net/images/xforce/xf49.jpg
http://robliefeld.net/images/xforce/xf30.jpg
http://robliefeld.net/images/xforce/xf50.jpg

[spark627]

wow his work is very out of proportion, but i dont mind it too much

i like it better then larocca

i know im in the minority but i like chris art, it is very stylized and unique. i like that the book has its own style apart from everything else

[ProfeZZor X]

wow his work is very out of proportion, but i dont mind it too much

i like it better then larocca

i know im in the minority but i like chris art, it is very stylized and unique. i like that the book has its own style apart from everything else

If I had no other choice but Larocca and Lobdell..... I'd have to go with Larocca.... Still, thank God we don't have that kind of situation.

[Xplicit Content]

Are we talking about Lobdell or Liefeld?

[Valechan]

Lobdell is a writer, he doesn't draw. Those pics are Liefeld's... he attempts to be both, writer and penciler... and fails completely at both.

[OutcryX]

But wait....... There's more!!!

If you can't find anything wrong with the way he draws people, then I REALLY feel sorry for you. If he was involved in the writing aspect of those stories, then I'll give him credit.... So long as he stays away from a pencil and paper, I'm cool.

If I had no other choice but Larocca and Lobdell..... I'd have to go with Larocca.... Still, thank God we don't have that kind of situation.


Um...dude...all those posts...you are confusing two COMPLETELY different people. I believe..based on the artwork(if you can call it that) is ROB LIEFELD.....to which I agree totally..he sucks..alot...I did enjoy YoungBlood though and Team Youngblood and Bloodpool...but only when they were written and drawn by other, more talented individuals.

Scott Lobdell is a writer...and to the best of my knowledge...didn't draw or illustrate any published works pertaining to the X-Men. He just wrote some of the best stories...him and Nicieza

[ghost113]

wow, I feel dumb for not noticing it before. yeah rob Liefield is the artist.

[danielisthor]

Liefield does draw nice big breasts though. Even on girls that are teenagers. The rest of the body form sucks.

[ProfeZZor X]

wow, I feel dumb for not noticing it before. yeah rob Liefield is the artist.

Ditto :O.... I meant Leifield..

[GreatWhiteWhale]

It's so easy for people to jump on the 'I hate Rob Liefield' bandwagon, i mean, the majority of young internet perusers absolutely despise him, without any good reason. I mean, sure, Liefield overdoes anatomy, his style might not be to everyones tastes but ... surely that applies to some of your favourite artists as well (not targeting anyone specifically here). A comic book does not have to be, nor should always be, photorealistic. I really do think that some people will hate something just because it seems popular to do so, rather than out of any real personal opinion. I'm not saying this is the case here, but I do believe this stuff happens on the 'net.

As for Scott Lobdell, well, alot of people disagreed with the way he wrote the X-Men, particularly at the end of his career (Word to the wise, if you were creating comics in the nineties, pretty much everyone hated you at some point). Personally, I thought Lobdell is/was a fantastic writer. He is, and will always be, one of my favourite X-Men writers.

[mightiest_mortal]

Think il agree with you there. I loved the whole Lobdell/Nicieza era.

[ProfeZZor X]

It's so easy for people to jump on the 'I hate Rob Liefield' bandwagon, i mean, the majority of young internet perusers absolutely despise him, without any good reason. I mean, sure, Liefield overdoes anatomy, his style might not be to everyones tastes but ... surely that applies to some of your favourite artists as well (not targeting anyone specifically here). A comic book does not have to be, nor should always be, photorealistic. I really do think that some people will hate something just because it seems popular to do so, rather than out of any real personal opinion. I'm not saying this is the case here, but I do believe this stuff happens on the 'net.

As for Scott Lobdell, well, alot of people disagreed with the way he wrote the X-Men, particularly at the end of his career (Word to the wise, if you were creating comics in the nineties, pretty much everyone hated you at some point). Personally, I thought Lobdell is/was a fantastic writer. He is, and will always be, one of my favourite X-Men writers.

Actually, I preferred a lot of the stories of the nineties. Those were some of the greatest X-Men momments for me.... That, and the mid to late eighties.

[Norkie]

Ya one of my favorite comics is X-force #30 and I also like the X-cutinors song story.

[MoPlaYa43]

Larocca's a lot better than how Bachalo would usually draw completely disproportionate figures, which he still does most of the time, as well as faces that can barely convey any kind of emotion. If Larocca kept his work the same from the Children of the Atom arc right after the reload, I don't think people would be complaining.

I agree....Day of the Atom was some of Larocca`s best work IMO....Larocca with Liquid coloring was so awesome...

[ghost113]

When did Larocca do Chlidren of the atom?

[Specter313]

When did Larocca do Chlidren of the atom?

Correction: The arc was named Day of the Atom. It was right after the reload when Morrison left, and was X-Men #157-160.

[ProfeZZor X]

Correction: The arc was named Day of the Atom. It was right after the reload when Morrison left, and was X-Men #157-160.

Children of the Atom and Civil War #1 & #2 were the only things I had available to read when I was over in a remote part of the Philippines a couple of months ago.... And I assure you, Larocca came no where near close to doing the artistry for either of these books.

[El Bastardo]

Yeah. The Chuck Austen issues. :D

The Liefeld thing is interesting. Whaley's spot on - a lot of people hate him because it's the popular thing to do. People do lots of things because it's the popular thing to do - gain instant street cred (forum cred!) for agreeing with people and standing against dishonorable art!

Liefeld certainly had his place. I think it was Scott McCloud who wrote that it was his style that caught the early-to-mid 90s big angst phase, and through lots of anger and pouches (that last part is mine) made comics exciting for a lot of people. Hey, I love X-Force. I'm happily on that boat and I'll never be jumping ship. I don't care how ****ty his art was - it fit the book's idea. It made the visual image of the book.

But would I want to see Liefeld draw mainstream X-Men? No. Godno. But it's a time difference, also, on top of that style and team difference, on top of the age difference (at least in me, being, what, 10-15 years older?). The industry has many more very, very talented mainstream artists, and that also accounts for something.

To me, now, today, Liefeld's stuff is ugly. It works, as art, but it's ugly. Everyone has the same face, but I say this in the day of works by Cassaday (Astonishing X-Men), Billy Tan (Uncanny X-Men), even Bachalo (X-Men), Ramos (Wolverine), Pelletier (most current Exiles issue), THE KUBERTS (currently DC, Batman and I think upcoming Superman), and a bunch more that I'm just not thinking of.

Pretty's the thing today, or whatever word you'd like to sub for pretty. What isn't the thing, what's not in, is all the anger and angst of Liefeld's work. There's the difference.

[Rogue's Hand]

I just recieved issue # 190.
Guess I have to look for 189, 188:(

[ProfeZZor X]

Yeah. The Chuck Austen issues. :D

The Liefeld thing is interesting. Whaley's spot on - a lot of people hate him because it's the popular thing to do. People do lots of things because it's the popular thing to do - gain instant street cred (forum cred!) for agreeing with people and standing against dishonorable art!

Liefeld certainly had his place. I think it was Scott McCloud who wrote that it was his style that caught the early-to-mid 90s big angst phase, and through lots of anger and pouches (that last part is mine) made comics exciting for a lot of people. Hey, I love X-Force. I'm happily on that boat and I'll never be jumping ship. I don't care how ****ty his art was - it fit the book's idea. It made the visual image of the book.

But would I want to see Liefeld draw mainstream X-Men? No. Godno. But it's a time difference, also, on top of that style and team difference, on top of the age difference (at least in me, being, what, 10-15 years older?). The industry has many more very, very talented mainstream artists, and that also accounts for something.

To me, now, today, Liefeld's stuff is ugly. It works, as art, but it's ugly. Everyone has the same face, but I say this in the day of works by Cassaday (Astonishing X-Men), Billy Tan (Uncanny X-Men), even Bachalo (X-Men), Ramos (Wolverine), Pelletier (most current Exiles issue), THE KUBERTS (currently DC, Batman and I think upcoming Superman), and a bunch more that I'm just not thinking of.

Pretty's the thing today, or whatever word you'd like to sub for pretty. What isn't the thing, what's not in, is all the anger and angst of Liefeld's work. There's the difference.

... And what's the difference between Shatterstar and Cable:

1) Shorter hair
2) Techno - armor
3) A sword

Otherwise, it's the same character. Makes you wonder if they're related.

[El Bastardo]

Don't forget different costumes.

Eh, Liefeld's Cable from the first days of X-Force was fairly big and bulky (as can be seen in one of the pictures you posted). It's great that you feel you've got a point to prove, and all that, what with your righteous crusade to spit forth venom that will surely poison and maim Liefeld into being unable to further work his craft - and hey, all the more power to you - but I wasn't contesting you.

So let's not beat the dead horse, mm?

[ProfeZZor X]

Don't forget different costumes.

Eh, Liefeld's Cable from the first days of X-Force was fairly big and bulky (as can be seen in one of the pictures you posted). It's great that you feel you've got a point to prove, and all that, what with your righteous crusade to spit forth venom that will surely poison and maim Liefeld into being unable to further work his craft - and hey, all the more power to you - but I wasn't contesting you.

So let's not beat the dead horse, mm?


I agree..... Let's move on.

So how about those X-Men?

[El Bastardo]

Oh, sure. Moving on to friendlier pastures...

I'm getting sick of seeing Sabretooth with a band-aid on his nose. What's next, him singing "I'm stuck on band-aid brand 'cause band-aid's stuck on me!"? :dry:

[Xplicit Content]

http://www.nightgig.com/sweatshop/personal/borrowedgroup.jpg

Can I get an ID on some of the characters in this? I see Rictor, Boom Boom, Cable, Wolfsbane, Sunspot, Cannonball, Warlocke, and Shatterstar.

One of those blonde females looks like Magik, but who's the other blonde in the yellow? Is that Magma? I started reading comics just after New Mutants became X-Force, so my memory is foggy of that whole time.

It looks like Liefeld even came back to Marvel during the time I stopped reading, judging from some of those other pages. Who's the blonde with the glowing hands with Domino? I never really noticed before, but Rob draws in the style of Aeon Flux, with the crazy body proportions. He was never my favorite artist, but I never disliked his work.

ETA - Sorry about bringing this back up...I was just curious.

[El Bastardo]

The blonde with the glowing hands beside Domino was Meltdown/Boomer/Boom Boom/whatever else.

As for that picture, I'd say the girl with the sword was Magik. No clue who the blonde in the yellow jumpsuit is. Is it Magma?

[Charlie No-One]

http://www.nightgig.com/sweatshop/personal/borrowedgroup.jpg

Can I get an ID on some of the characters in this? I see Rictor, Boom Boom, Cable, Wolfsbane, Sunspot, Cannonball, Warlocke, and Shatterstar.

One of those blonde females looks like Magik, but who's the other blonde in the yellow? Is that Magma? I started reading comics just after New Mutants became X-Force, so my memory is foggy of that whole time.

It looks like Liefeld even came back to Marvel during the time I stopped reading, judging from some of those other pages. Who's the blonde with the glowing hands with Domino? I never really noticed before, but Rob draws in the style of Aeon Flux, with the crazy body proportions. He was never my favorite artist, but I never disliked his work.

ETA - Sorry about bringing this back up...I was just curious.

Where is Rictor?

[ghost113]

he is in the green behind cable.

[Charlie No-One]

Wow. I thought that was a woman.

[ghost113]

no thats rictor

[Charlie No-One]

That suit plus the long hair does not suit him.

[ghost113]

yeah I like his look now only wish he had his powers.

[ButJustForYou]

I just got #190. It rocks, hard. I just loved Cable's entrance. :up:

[ProfeZZor X]

Not sure how to read into this scene, but I find it very disturbing... (Bobby and Sam)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_2.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_3.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_4.jpg

Male bonding..... Or is there something else to this? ... You tell me.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_5.jpg

[ghost113]

that do seem really close in these scenes.

[danielisthor]

I think male bonding? Both have histories with woman.

[Specter313]

http://www.nightgig.com/sweatshop/personal/borrowedgroup.jpg

Can I get an ID on some of the characters in this? I see Rictor, Boom Boom, Cable, Wolfsbane, Sunspot, Cannonball, Warlocke, and Shatterstar.

One of those blonde females looks like Magik, but who's the other blonde in the yellow? Is that Magma? I started reading comics just after New Mutants became X-Force, so my memory is foggy of that whole time.

It looks like Liefeld even came back to Marvel during the time I stopped reading, judging from some of those other pages. Who's the blonde with the glowing hands with Domino? I never really noticed before, but Rob draws in the style of Aeon Flux, with the crazy body proportions. He was never my favorite artist, but I never disliked his work.

ETA - Sorry about bringing this back up...I was just curious.

From what I can tell(from left to right):

Guy in green: Rictor
Gal kneeling down: Boom Boom
Guy w/ big gun: Cable
Girl in yellow: Don't think Magma ever joined, possibly Skids
Guy in orange: Sunspot
Girl with sword: Most likely Magik
Guy in purple: Cannonball
Guy in white with sword: Shatterstar
Thing in back: Warlock

[Valechan]

Perhaps Bobby got tired of living in the closet and is finally coming out :p Gay romance between such long-established characters would be so very welcome. It'd be terrific and everyone will talk about it.

I do realize they had history with women, but so has many many gay men. Some people need to walk the wrong road before they realize the truth :p

[ProfeZZor X]

Perhaps Bobby got tired of living in the closet and is finally coming out :p Gay romance between such long-established characters would be so very welcome. It'd be terrific and everyone will talk about it.

I do realize they had history with women, but so has many many gay men. Some people need to walk the wrong road before they realize the truth :p

The only problem with that, is that BOTH characters have been consistently with women since their creation. And to have this happen is purely out of the blue and random.

Some people say the signs have been there, but every writer has portrayed them as hetrosexual. I think Carey might be playing into the whole internet hype, and going with it.

That's like saying:

"Okay, I've been dating women all my life, and none of those relationships have worked, yet I've never felt any attraction towards men.... Oh well.... I must be gay."

[Specter313]

And Sam is still in an, albeit off panel, relationship with Lila Cheney.

[ProfeZZor X]

Looking at this image, it's not like Bobby is saying: Eww, girl lips"...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/raven_ice_1.jpg

[masterj]

Sam and Bobby look...cosy together. Reminds me of a bad Helen Hunt movie.

[danielisthor]

Perhaps Bobby got tired of living in the closet and is finally coming out :p Gay romance between such long-established characters would be so very welcome. It'd be terrific and everyone will talk about it.

I do realize they had history with women, but so has many many gay men. Some people need to walk the wrong road before they realize the truth :p


I always thought Storm and Yukio had an interesting relationship not explored to its full potential.

[Valechan]

Bobby was unconscious there, if he had been seeing her perhaps he'd say "eww girl lips". Though speaking about Mystique, we don't know for SURE she is a girl after all. Being a shapeshifter we might never know the truth about her past, and I, for one, don't believe what she says, she has lied far too much to be trustworthy.

I do realize it might be a huge OOC move, but don't tell me that the net wouldn't truly "crack in half", to quote Quesada, if Sam and Bobby went the Brokeback way :p

[ghost113]

Looking at this image, it's not like Bobby is saying: Eww, girl lips"...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/raven_ice_1.jpg

thats practically the same **** thar's on the cover.

[spark627]

and thats bad because???

i like when a cover represents what is actually in the issue and not misleading. that cover is far more dramatic and beautiful.

[ghost113]

I didn't mean to say it like that but more in a good way.

[spark627]

oh ok :)

[X_fan08]

Not sure how to read into this scene, but I find it very disturbing... (Bobby and Sam)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_2.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_3.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_4.jpg

Male bonding..... Or is there something else to this? ... You tell me.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_5.jpg

that is so not right

[spark627]

i dont think the scene is sexual, theyre friends. its not disturbing imo

[Specter313]

and thats bad because???

i like when a cover represents what is actually in the issue and not misleading. that cover is far more dramatic and beautiful.

I like it more when a cover ties in to the interior story, but I don't mind if it doesn't when the cover looks great. Take the Runaways covers. Most of them don't always tie in to the story for that issue, but the art is so gorgeous that it doesn't matter.

[danielisthor]

On those panels, in the first, Colossus is more than a foot taller than everybody else in the room. In the next panel he is the same height as Scott and pretty much everybody else. The last panel it looks as if Sam and Bobby are knocking fists a sign of teammates, not holding hands a sign of love or affection.

And i love how Sebita skipped right over that post i made of Storm and Yukio

[ProfeZZor X]

I like it more when a cover ties in to the interior story, but I don't mind if it doesn't when the cover looks great. Take the Runaways covers. Most of them don't always tie in to the story for that issue, but the art is so gorgeous that it doesn't matter.

That's what the 80s X-Men were all about... Covers that reflected the story within. They make for a good visual cliffhanger.

[JustABill]

Loved Cable's entrance...hate Cable, but loved his entrance....very badass. And my god people, stop reading into those Bobby/Sam scenes. They aren't gay...they are just really close male friends. Bobby loves women far too much to suddenly say...''How about I shack up with my pal, Sam?"

[ghost113]

what's with serafina simply just standing in the middle of the room can they not see her?

[OutcryX]

Not sure how to read into this scene, but I find it very disturbing... (Bobby and Sam)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_2.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_3.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_4.jpg

Male bonding..... Or is there something else to this? ... You tell me.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_5.jpg

Whats disturbing about it? even if it were true...which its not...but still...poor choice of words

[X_fan08]

Coming from the person with the signature prison sex.

[Charlie No-One]

I think it would be kind of cool if the X-Men got more gay characters...maybe not Iceman, but I could see Cannonball...

[Valechan]

On those panels, in the first, Colossus is more than a foot taller than everybody else in the room. In the next panel he is the same height as Scott and pretty much everybody else. The last panel it looks as if Sam and Bobby are knocking fists a sign of teammates, not holding hands a sign of love or affection.

And i love how Sebita skipped right over that post i made of Storm and Yukio

Ha! I've said more than once that I'm ok with that if it were true, in fact, I'd rather have her in a relationship with Yukio than with Panther :(

Anyway, sometimes the art makes it look that way, when it's not the intention of the writer. I remember a panel of Thunderbird and Slipstream in X-Treme X-Men where they looked pretty gay together.

[Valechan]

Sometimes I just have too much free time on my hands :p

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3696&stc=1&d=1156986003

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3697&stc=1&d=1156986044

[OutcryX]

Coming from the person with the signature prison sex.

whats your point?

[usagicassidy]

So I'm really really liking this story...but I'm still pretty confused. Things just seem to happen. Like robot girl talking? When did she talk? Has she shown up since the issue they found her? And what did that girl do to coma girl?

[Colossal Spoons]

I think it would be kind of cool if the X-Men got more gay characters...maybe not Iceman, but I could see Cannonball...

I disagree. Homosexuality is becoming more of a fad these days. If it will further a character's development sure, but no making people gay for the heck of it. :down:

[GreatWhiteWhale]

I've heard theories before about Bobby being Gay, and his dedication to Playboyism simply being a cover.

I thought there were certain characters throughout X-Men history that were made gay because there personalities were bland (at that point) and also in an attempt by Marvel to be 'fair and equal'. These characters are mostly girls: Wolfsbane (not surea about this one), Karma and Dani Moonstar. I think Karma in particular is a good example, it's almost like the writers said "****! we need some Lesbians, whose expendable?".

I think exploring sexuality in X-Men is a VERY GOOD THING if it's written with quality and honesty. Bobby and Sam being gay would feel alot more organic to me than it did when Hank was 'pretending to be gay', with that said, I don't think this is what's happening here - I think Bobby and Mystique will clearly have some kind of tryst, and it seems that Serafina is drawn to Sam for some reason...

Look, If any book should be exploring these issues it's X-Men. For a very long time, Social Commentary has been key to telling good X-Men stories. Whether it be about persecution, politics, cultural conflicts, the effect science will have on our lives or many other things. I don't see why a discourse on Sexuality shouldn't also be feautured. For me, X-Men SHOULD be a book that promotes higher thought, rather than just mindless consumable entertainment.

[OutcryX]

I disagree. Homosexuality is becoming more of a fad these days. If it will further a character's development sure, but no making people gay for the heck of it. :down:

There is absolutely nothing about homosexuality that can be considered a "fad"

But please. Explain your point.

[spark627]

while i wouldn't call homosexuality a fad, i understand what he is saying...

the media uses gay characters to attract attention or to create stories. i remember when willow on buffy became a lesbian and i thought it was kinda random and out of no where... although they handled it well and i grew to like the idea.

im gay and it annoys me when shows or movies use gay characters for comedy (ex: the overly butchy lesbian, the extrememly feminine gay guy who only cares about sex and clubs)...it does get old.

i always loved how they handled northstar, he was not a stereotype and they didnt completely change his character/views to fit his sexuality. bobby has been around forever and making him gay would be weird, i wouldnt be happy if they did it... now sam, they could say he has been in the closet bc he is kentucky and they arent as open lol

[Specter313]

Saying Sam would be gay would not make sense more than Bobby. Sam has been in several deep, committed relationships (at least on his end), with women, so saying he's gay after all of this would be completely out of left field. Bobby, on the other hand, had that whole deal with Cloud where he was really questioning his feelings.

[ProfeZZor X]

Saying Sam would be gay would not make sense more than Bobby. Sam has been in several deep, committed relationships (at least on his end), with women, so saying he's gay after all of this would be completely out of left field. Bobby, on the other hand, had that whole deal with Cloud where he was really questioning his feelings.

Firstly, like many other people on the "Bobby is straight" bandwagon, just because I personally think he's straight, its not because I have a problem with gay characters. Hulkling and Wiccan are two of my favorite new characters created in the last five years. And actually, I think Bobby would have been an interesting character to make bisexual. However, I don't think that he is.
A lot of people like to use the Defenders years to bring up points about his sexuality. I've seen Beast refer to how he used to introduce himself as Lance...Hank's boyfriend. But there's the matter of context. He did that ONCE. He was eighteen, immature, and its the kind of thing any kid with Bobby's personality would have done as a joke. In high school, guys did that sort of thing all the time. I highly doubt its proof that they were all gay.

People like to refer to his relationship with Cloud. Again, where's the proof? He broke up with Cloud because it just got too awkward, but he remained friends with her, because he genuinely cared about her, and that's the kind of character he is. But some people like to insist he only broke up with her then because he was in denial...but that's a very one sided view. Let's be honest here. Cloud didn't just randomly turn into a guy, she turned into a guy while they were both naked and in bed together. What straight guy wouldn't be freaked out by that happening, and the possibility of it happening again? That didn't make Bobby either homophobic OR in the closet, it made him a perfectly normal straight man who wanted to wake up next to someone of the same gender he went to sleep with.
His long line of disastrous relationships as proof? I'm twenty two years old and I've yet to have a lasting relationship with a woman, though I'm pretty sure I still enjoy having sex with women. Do I need to start questioning my sexuality anyways?

Emma's line about interior decorating. Again, context. He'd just turned her room into an ice cave. Being Emma, of course she was going to say something in response, so I challenge you to come up with something else she could have said, other than a crack about interior decorating. Sure, she could have used a different line, but that's all it was. An off the wall one-liner. I highly doubt that the writer of that issue spent time delicately crafting that one line and cackling, "Yes, this is where we'll reveal the TRUTH of Bobby's sexuality." And umm, consider that the entire issue was dedicated to the two of them being in Bobby's mind, and that Emma was taking great pleasure in deconstructing his past relationships, such as the one with Opal. If the writer really wanted to make his sexuality ambiguous, don't you think there were easier ways to do it in that issue? Especially given Emma's presence, and her fondness for using people's most hidden thoughts as a weapon? Instead, Emma basically just made him relive his breakup with Opal, reminding him of how she broke up with HIM, because he was never around, and took his superheroing more seriously than her. Which, it should be pointed out, IS why Opal and Bobby broke up, and is also a perfectly valid reason for breaking up.

So really, I don't think any of that is conclusive at all. Whereas there's plenty of evidence backing the theory that Bobby's straight, ASIDE from the most obvious of all....his hetero relationships. First of all....there's his and Emma's flirtations in Generation X. In Generation X, particularly the issues around the 50s, when they're having a school dance, Emma invites Bobby as her date, and the two flirt quite a bit. It looked for a while like the writers were even toying with the idea of an Emma/Bobby relationship. So consider....this only happened AFTER Emma was in Bobby's mind, and the whole crack about interior decorating. If Emma truly thought Bobby was gay....would she really have pursued anything with him at all, even remotely? And if the writers, who were working closely at the time, really intended to make his sexuality ambiguous, would they really have started pursuing anything between the two AFTER their secret insight into Bobby's interior decorating mind? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

But the biggest argument for Bobby being straight is back in the original X-Factor series. There was a storyline (one of my favorites, I believe it was called Judgement Day, or Wars, something like that) where X-Factor was stranded on an alien planet. During the course of that storyline, Bobby was separated from the other X-Men, and lost his memory. And with his memory, he lost his inhibitions. That storyline showed Bobby at his most competent. He not only forgot the obvious memories of who he was and why he was there, he forgot about his insecurities, the things that made him constantly act immature and irresponsible. He was confident when it came to fighting, he didn't constantly second guess himself....and he confidentally pursued a relationship with one of the alien women, I forget her name, though she had fire powers. So....if he'd forgotten his insecurities, if he'd forgotten he was even FROM Earth, if he'd forgotten about the societal restrictions that would have kept a gay man afraid to come out of the closet.....why did he STILL not show the least bit of attraction to men, and instead choose to pursue a relationship with a female, more confidently than he ever had, or has since?

[Generation Lee]

God are we now living in a society were strong platonic love must mean gay! seriously there my have been homosexual undertones in some characters situations but seriously hasn't they world evolved slightly beyond that.

I'm guilty of it hell I thought Sam and Frodo were going to shack up at the end of LOTR. But because homosexuality is now open to us we see to imply that everything 2 males do together is gay.

I actually respect Cannball for what he done, he knows Bobby years hell they maybe of similar age they have fought and lost friends. Muntants are decemated to me he is reacting to the current situation in the Marvel Universe he's just lost his kid brother I don't think he wnats to loose anymore ofhis family do you?

[Valechan]

If you're using Sam and Frodo as a way to make us think Sam and Bobby are not gay then you're wrong my friend!!! Do you know why Frodo ends up leaving? Out of spite, because Sam choose Rosie, he was so in looove with Sam... anyways, I don't believe Bobby it's gay, but it'd be sooo easy to make him so. Why can't they write a retcon that says "I always hid my sexuality". Sure it'd be outrageous, sure it'd be OOC... but hey, so was Avengers Disassembled and it happend. There are tons of retcons that completely change our beloved characters. Like it or not, if they want to make Bobby gay, they can.

And Sam losing his brother... he's from Kentucky, he grew up in a farm... perhaps he lost more than "just" a brother :p