Robin To Be Or Not To Be

[batman7289]

I think Robin should be in the BB sequels but NOT in BB2. I think they should give hints in BB2 to show Robin will be in a different sequel. In my mind I think it would be cool to show like a flying grasons poster in BB2, and thats it

[Azrael23]

Robin could be introduced in BB3 and given some kind of characterization
then WB can combine the trilogy with a Nightwing trilogy, with flashbacks of his
training and years as Robin with Bruce.

Or they could introduce Robin near the end of BB2 and perhaps he can become Robin
in the third film. Either way I wouldn't mind if Robin was put in Nolan's films, but I wouldn't be
dissapointed if he wasn't.

[El Payaso]

Yes, we totally needed to start yet another thread talking the ****ing same old ****ing ****.

[Katsuro]

We really dont need another Robin thread. Merge this with all the hundred other Robin threads, please.

[AnimeJune]

Yes, we totally needed to start yet another thread talking the ****ing same old ****ing ****.He's new - we can hardly expect Shakespeare out of someone with only 23 posts to his/her name.

Well, you can out of ME. I just joined the boards a week ago, but I'm not actually a person - I'm actually a roomful of overpaid monkeys on keyboards. Ingenius, really. *puffs on corncob pipe*

[El Payaso]

He's new - we can hardly expect Shakespeare out of someone with only 23 posts to his/her name.

I'm talking about a Search button (you don't need any number of posts to press that button or know what it is for) and at least read the title of other threads in this very page.

Close this.

[Lacuna]

didn't Bale say that robin would never be in any movies he starred in?

he said the mood is serious and robin makes it campy.

[batmaluco]

Another ****ty Robin thread.......

[Ronny Shade]

He's new - we can hardly expect Shakespeare out of someone with only 23 posts to his/her name.

Well, you can out of ME. I just joined the boards a week ago, but I'm not actually a person - I'm actually a roomful of overpaid monkeys on keyboards. Ingenius, really. *puffs on corncob pipe*
You're a prodigy. Can't expect the same from everyone.


Yes to Robin, no to Robin in BB2.

[El Payaso]

didn't Bale say that robin would never be in any movies he starred in?

he said the mood is serious and robin makes it campy.

He said that and we have said it in multiple threads. All of them happen to have the word 'Robin' in the titles so you can know which they are with no problems. All of them are in this very page.

Close this.

[El Payaso]

[edit by Robin the Boy Wonder]

[Lacuna]

why the double post

[El Payaso]

I was really pissed off.

[batmaluco]

Because one was edited by Robin the Boy Wonder, in person. :o

[batmaluco]

The Kid in trouble

[El Payaso]

Robin, The Wonder where the Boy is gonna be, because he won't in the Nolan movies.

[batmaluco]

Trouble kid

[bdsproductions]

well,if they have too i woudl say a badass dark version of Robin in Batman III.but i would prefer not,but i'm not totally against it.

[batmaluco]

1400 posts, go change your title :o

[batmaluco]

Damn slow connection...

[El Payaso]

Ha!

[batmaluco]

:joker:

[Ronny Shade]

If Nolan is only doing 3 movies, than I think it is, yes, safe to say that Robin will not be in the Nolan movies.

[El Payaso]

Everybody knows that this kind of franchises fall apart definitively after the third movie.

[Cinemaman]

Robin (and Schumacher) killed Batman franchise.

And I dont want him to come back to destroy everything what Nolan has done again.

NO F****ING ROBIAN!

[Two-Face]

This batman7289 person I bet it is Spiderfreddie who else would start another Robin thread and knows there are too many Robin threads but posts new ones anyway.

[Keyser Sushi]

He's new - we can hardly expect Shakespeare out of someone with only 23 posts to his/her name.

Well, you can out of ME. I just joined the boards a week ago, but I'm not actually a person - I'm actually a roomful of overpaid monkeys on keyboards. Ingenius, really. *puffs on corncob pipe*

Do all canuck broads have such incredible personalities, or is it just you?

[Katsuro]

Everybody knows that this kind of franchises fall apart definitively after the third movie.

How many of these kinds of franchises have even made it past the third movie? But then I guess it depends on what you mean by "this kind of franchise" Comic book movies? Or action films in general. I can only think of 2 comic book franchises that made it to 4, and in most peoples opinions they fell apart well before the 4th.

I could see this new Batman franchise making it quite a while before running out of good storylines and villains. I see no reason to stop at 3 just because society seems to think every franchise has to come in threes.

[El Payaso]

But then I guess it depends on what you mean by "this kind of franchise" Comic book movies?

No, road movies with Tom Hanks.

I can only think of 2 comic book franchises that made it to 4, and in most peoples opinions they fell apart well before the 4th.

Even worse.

[블라스]

These Robin threads give me some really bad headaches.

[Dark Knight88]

No Robin. Final Answer.

[AnimeJune]

Robin (and Schumacher) killed Batman franchise.

And I dont want him to come back to destroy everything what Nolan has done again.

NO F****ING ROBIAN!It wasn't Robin - it was Chris O'Donnell. I'm not saying put Robin in a franchise, but I'm saying that practically any idea can be turned into a good movie in the hands of a talented director who cares about the material.

Nolan doesn't care for Robin, so hence Robin shouldn't be in his movies.
And yes, Keyser Sushi - all Canadian girls have great personalities, because the cold keeps us from flashing our goodies as often as your Yank ladies.

[StorminNorman]

Nolan doesnt not like Robin (he even has said that Dick Grayson does exist in his world) it is Bale who hates Robin (with a passion it seems).

[AnimeJune]

Nolan doesnt not like Robin (he even has said that Dick Grayson does exist in his world) it is Bale who hates Robin (with a passion it seems).Ah...by the way, StorminNorman - you're new custom title...I don't mean to be all narcissistic or self-involved or anything, but did that have anything to do with the "beaten with a frozen salmon" comment I made in the "Fresh Joker Idea" thread?

[StorminNorman]

Ah...by the way, StorminNorman - you're new custom title...I don't mean to be all narcissistic or self-involved or anything, but did that have anything to do with the "beaten with a frozen salmon" comment I made in the "Fresh Joker Idea" thread?

It did, sadly Salmon does not fit. I saw Bettany's expression in the picture I am now using for my avatar and that was the first thing that came to my mind.

[Keyser Sushi]

It wasn't Robin - it was Chris O'Donnell. I'm not saying put Robin in a franchise, but I'm saying that practically any idea can be turned into a good movie in the hands of a talented director who cares about the material.

Bingo.

And yes, Keyser Sushi - all Canadian girls have great personalities, because the cold keeps us from flashing our goodies as often as your Yank ladies.

LOL! Then maybe I just haven't been looking far enough north before. Tell me, are you as cute and quirky on the outside as you are on the inside? :spidey:

[AnimeJune]

Bingo.



LOL! Then maybe I just haven't been looking far enough north before. Tell me, are you as cute and quirky on the outside as you are on the inside? :spidey:Well, I know for a fact that my mother says I'm cool.

[Bat-God]

No Robin.


If you've read Dark Victory, you'll notice that once Robin appeared, the mood changed significantly.

I do not want the mood that Robin brings in these new Batman movies.

[Iglius]

Alright, it seems to me that Nolan is trying to do the character of Batman some justice with his darker, more realistic take on it. He said he doesn't want to re-do many of the old villians, bringing in only the key characters that need to be in it in order for it to be a Batman story. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd consider Robin part of the Batman mythology. He is one of those key characters in my opinion. If they figured out a way to put him in the series without causing to many gay jokes and without changing the overall mood of the thing, I wouldn't complain.

[AnimeJune]

Alright, it seems to me that Nolan is trying to do the character of Batman some justice with his darker, more realistic take on it. He said he doesn't want to re-do many of the old villians, bringing in only the key characters that need to be in it in order for it to be a Batman story. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd consider Robin part of the Batman mythology. He is one of those key characters in my opinion. If they figured out a way to put him in the series without causing to many gay jokes and without changing the overall mood of the thing, I wouldn't complain.Well, he's a main character, but a key character? Hmmm... I think he's one of those characters who has some importance, but isn't immediately relevant to the Batman story, so shouldn't automatically get a place in Nolan's Batman films.

[StorminNorman]

Well, he's a main character, but a key character? Hmmm... I think he's one of those characters who has some importance, but isn't immediately relevant to the Batman story, so shouldn't automatically get a place in Nolan's Batman films.

Actually yes, I think Robin is key to Batman's story because Robin is the one that keeps Batman human.

[Iglius]

I think it all depends on how they choose to present the character. It could add alot to the series, or it could cause mass suckage.

[El Payaso]

Actually yes, I think Robin is key to Batman's story because Robin is the one that keeps Batman human.

If there's no Robin, he'll turn into a giant tarantula or something?

Cuz he was human in BB.

[Keyser Sushi]

Well, I know for a fact that my mother says I'm cool.

Hehehe. Well, I suspect she's right, despite her obvious bias. ;)

[griffolyon12]

I would like to see Robin,because I think Nolan could actually make this a cool character.But I don't want him in BB2.I like Robin and would love to see him,but I also want to see this franchise keep up the same quality as BB.So if they could do it without ruining this very promising franchise I'm all for him in BB3,and if they make one BB4,but BB2 is just too early to add his character.

[Keyser Sushi]

If there's no Robin, he'll turn into a giant tarantula or something?

Cuz he was human in BB.

Congratulations, Ellie. You made me "LOL" for real. :up:

But, that was my man Norm you tossed that gem of a line at...

In my opinion, Batman's "humanity" as Norm is speaking of it, is his compassion and heart... and its presence or absence depends largely on the writers. It's easy to take the character to a place where he becomes that harsh, and Robin obviously does keep him somewhat grounded by, basically, providing human contact. But I don't think Batman always needs that... I think Batman, as written in Begins, is pretty well-balanced, mentally and emotionally.

I also think that his mental state may slip a bit in BB2-3, but will they need Robin to help him reclaim that? Not necessarily.

[AnimeJune]

If there's no Robin, he'll turn into a giant tarantula or something?

Cuz he was human in BB.Yeah - Man-Bat was a different character from Bruce, unlike Peter Parker and Man-Spider (by the way, which came first? Man-Bat or Man-Spider?).

[Bat-God]

Yeah - Man-Bat was a different character from Bruce, unlike Peter Parker and Man-Spider (by the way, which came first? Man-Bat or Man-Spider?).


Man-Bat, I think.

[El Payaso]

Yeah - Man-Bat was a different character from Bruce, unlike Peter Parker and Man-Spider (by the way, which came first? Man-Bat or Man-Spider?).

Yeah - and Man-Bat was not Bruce Wayne and all that stuff, and the tarantula... well, i don't know.

[Keyser Sushi]

Yeah - Man-Bat was a different character from Bruce, unlike Peter Parker and Man-Spider (by the way, which came first? Man-Bat or Man-Spider?).

Quick! To the Bat-Wikipedia!

First appearance of Man-Bat: Detective Comics #400, June 1970:

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/news_images/5129_13425_1.jpg

First appearance of Man-Spider, Marvel Fanfare #1, March 1982:

http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/07/da/13_1.JPG

[Atomic Crusader]

Not to be. Make that never to be. The debate rages eternal, one day I'll be too old to care.

[The Kid]

Robin functions as a spark of hope for the Dark Knight. As a teacher, batman learns more about himself and why he does what he does for gotham, I think. That'd be an interesting aspect of his character to explore, wouldn't it? This is how he attempts to heal his wounds and the wounds of others like him... by opening himself up to Dick and teaching him how to do some good for he world we see how batman has evolved from a creature of the night to a force for all thats right, and it allows an interesting growth for bruce who struggles with whether to be a normal guy or batman. Batman's more than just some nut in the end... but an individual who tries to improve the world by helping people like dick in a positive way... yeah.

[AnimeJune]

Robin functions as a spark of hope for the Dark Knight. As a teacher, batman learns more about himself and why he does what he does for gotham, I think. That'd be an interesting aspect of his character to explore, wouldn't it? This is how he attempts to heal his wounds and the wounds of others like him... by opening himself up to Dick and teaching him how to do some good for he world we see how batman has evolved from a creature of the night to a force for all thats right, and it allows an interesting growth for bruce who struggles with whether to be a normal guy or batman. Batman's more than just some nut in the end... but an individual who tries to improve the world by helping people like dick in a positive way... yeah.I suppose - but we've seen enough of that, I think. We haven't seen enough, in my opinion, of Batman as the borderline insane hero, the uncomfortably paranoid and distrustful hero who researches all of his friends' weaknesses so that he has the means to destroy them should they prove untrustworthy.

[StorminNorman]

Congratulations, Ellie. You made me "LOL" for real. :up:

But, that was my man Norm you tossed that gem of a line at...

In my opinion, Batman's "humanity" as Norm is speaking of it, is his compassion and heart... and its presence or absence depends largely on the writers. It's easy to take the character to a place where he becomes that harsh, and Robin obviously does keep him somewhat grounded by, basically, providing human contact. But I don't think Batman always needs that... I think Batman, as written in Begins, is pretty well-balanced, mentally and emotionally.

I also think that his mental state may slip a bit in BB2-3, but will they need Robin to help him reclaim that? Not necessarily.

Yes, basically I see BB2 and BB3 being very similar to Batman TLH and DV. Batman slowling consumes Bruce Wayne, making him inhuman - he trusts no one, he does not allow himself to be close to everyone. I want Harvey to be the only person (outside of Alfred) Batman trusts, then for him to be scarred - making Batman slightly go off the deep end. Robin is his salvation.

[AnimeJune]

Yes, basically I see BB2 and BB3 being very similar to Batman TLH and DV. Batman slowling consumes Bruce Wayne, making him inhuman - he trusts no one, he does not allow himself to be close to everyone. I want Harvey to be the only person (outside of Alfred) Batman trusts, then for him to be scarred - making Batman slightly go off the deep end. Robin is his salvation.Excellent idea - have Robin save Batman emotionally, while Batman saves Robin physically. In the animated series, they definitely put an emphasis on how Harvey and Bruce used to be friends before Harvey had his face blown up, but they didn't show that at all in the third film.
I would like for there to be a friendly link between the two before they have to go at it.

[StorminNorman]

Excellent idea - have Robin save Batman emotionally, while Batman saves Robin physically. In the animated series, they definitely put an emphasis on how Harvey and Bruce used to be friends before Harvey had his face blown up, but they didn't show that at all in the third film.
I would like for there to be a friendly link between the two before they have to go at it.

Yes, this has to be included - I dont care if it is a friendship between Harvey and Bruce (BTAS) or Harvey and Batman (Loeb/Sale comics) but there has to be a connection pre-Two Face.

[Two-Face]

I agree with Norman.

[AnimeJune]

Yes, this has to be included - I dont care if it is a friendship between Harvey and Bruce (BTAS) or Harvey and Batman (Loeb/Sale comics) but there has to be a connection pre-Two Face.Yeah. In the Spider-Man films, it looks like they're setting up to put Peter Parker up against his pal Harry when he discovers the Goblin serum. I doubt it'll be the same thing: Harry was never a good friend to Peter, but I think Bruce and Harvey had the real thing going on.

[Katsuro]

Yes, this has to be included - I dont care if it is a friendship between Harvey and Bruce (BTAS) or Harvey and Batman (Loeb/Sale comics) but there has to be a connection pre-Two Face.

Well, with Harvey being introduced a full film before his transformation, I doubt they'll be able to avoid it. I'm praying for a well developed friendship between Batman, Gordon, and Harvey like in the comics. It'll be a good way to give Gordon some extra screentime and development.

[StorminNorman]

Just put TLH into a camera - that comic nails the dent,gordon,bats relationship better than any other bat-work, IMO

[Keyser Sushi]

I suppose - but we've seen enough of that, I think. We haven't seen enough, in my opinion, of Batman as the borderline insane hero, the uncomfortably paranoid and distrustful hero who researches all of his friends' weaknesses so that he has the means to destroy them should they prove untrustworthy.

*sighs*.

Dammit, woman.

That's not Batman. :(

[Keyser Sushi]

Just put TLH into a camera - that comic nails the dent,gordon,bats relationship better than any other bat-work, IMO

Maybe so. Just as long as it doesn't LOOK like TLH, and doesn't have half as many characters, we're cool. ;)

[StorminNorman]

Maybe so. Just as long as it doesn't LOOK like TLH, and doesn't have half as many characters, we're cool. ;)

Everytime you say such blasphamy Jeff Loeb and Tim Sale cry.:(

[StorminNorman]

I just looked up and saw what the title of the thread was called....how did we get to Batman-Godorn-Batman relationships?

[The Kid]

No Robin.


If you've read Dark Victory, you'll notice that once Robin appeared, the mood changed significantly.

I do not want the mood that Robin brings in these new Batman movies.

I don't think Robin would undo any special moods. Dick's inclusion won't hurt batman at all to me. He'd be just as helpful to batman as gordon was during the train sequence in begins, and he'd save batman when he is in trouble similar to how alfred did. Whether Dick's in or out, Batman will always have his robins helping him out of troublesome spots, maybe not as fulltime sidekicks but still within the role as supporter/backup/and friend. What's so terribly wrong with adding Dick to this dynamic.


Not so soon of course, but The third film or fourth or whatever i think can be called Robin Begins!

http://www.gottawiz.com/images/Comics/DC/Batman/Robin/GDCR1.jpg :D

After years of battling gotham's nastiest villians, batman discovers that he can't fight this battle alone. So he enlists a new force for justice, the graceful robin.

Woot

[Katsuro]

*sighs*.

Dammit, woman.

That's not Batman. :(

It was for quite some time, unfortunatley. Luckily though, he's back to being only slightly paranoid/distrusting now. Hell, he even forgave Bullock.

[StorminNorman]

In order to get this thread back on a Robin track, let me share with you the worst Robin thread ever:

um alot of people tell me its too early for robin, I am thinking maybe the joker kills his parents and in the end Gordon introduces Robin to Batman. Well I guesse it could fit. And about the mob wars theory maybe one Joker could dump acid on the mob war happening in a factory from a balcony. Almost everybody dies and 2 face (I forget his real name) is one of the main henchmens of the one mob family, and it shows him running out screaming. I got a cool talking thing for the end.



Gordon: "The war isnt over yet Batman"

Batman: Cms. the Joker's dead.

Gordon: The Cabulerez's heir (two faces real name) is at large.

Batman: He died! I witnessd it.

gordon turns on TV inside the Police Van and shows him running out of the factory screaming.

Gordon: This war has had many influences on people, to think about others, to keep fighting hard. Take this little guy for example.

*flicks on TV again, shows Robin being brought in*

Gordon: His Parents were killed after the circus. He has fallowed in your footsteps and has no family. Perhaps-

Batman: He's not staying with me.

Gordon: I was going to ask about your friend Bruce. Maybe he could take the boy in.

*Batman looks over to the bench and sees Robin sitting accompanied by an officer*

Batman: Bruce doesn't like children.

Gordon: But his butler Alfred has already arrived.

*Alfred looks at him and winks then takes the boy with him*

Gordon: he took down some henchmen in the factory by himself. 5 exactly.

Batman: Then I will be watching his career with interest.

*He flies off*



Tell me what you think of that!

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201492

[Keyser Sushi]

Everytime you say such blasphamy Jeff Loeb and Tim Sale cry.:(

Good. Let them cry. Cry, Loeb and Sale. Cry. Cry hard. Cry to the Heavens that ye shall be more talented. Cry to the Heavens that the spirits of Bob Kane and Bill Finger shall come down and kick thee, until thou art wiser. Cry, Loeb and Sale. Cry.

[Keyser Sushi]

In order to get this thread back on a Robin track, let me share with you the worst Robin thread ever:



http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...=201492&page=1

#@$%. $#!@in' &@#&.

@#$%ers.

[StorminNorman]

#@$%. $#!@in' &@#&.

@#$%ers.

Those were the dark days, the days before I truly descovered Paul Bettany. :(

[Keyser Sushi]

Those were the dark days, the days before I truly descovered Paul Bettany. :(

LOL. Now you don't cuss?

[StorminNorman]

LOL. Now you don't cuss?

Why would you say that? Afterall of I am the Goddamn StorminNorman

[Keyser Sushi]

Why would you say that? Afterall of I am the Goddamn StorminNorman

Sorry. Clearly I misunderstood the thrust of your statement. :(

[StorminNorman]

Sorry. Clearly I misunderstood the thrust of your statement. :(

Or I misunderstood yours :(

[Keyser Sushi]

Or I misunderstood yours :(

Hark! Wingnuts in the ballistic apple trees, seething with recalcitrance.

[StorminNorman]

Hark! Wingnuts in the ballistic apple trees, seething with recalcitrance.

Lingua Mortua Sola Lingua Bona Est

[AnimeJune]

In order to get this thread back on a Robin track, let me share with you the worst Robin thread ever:



http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201492 :eek: Don't let Schumacher read that! He might get ideas!

Now THAT is an example of something so bad, that it's hilarious. Making Harvey Dent a Mob Heir? Wow, that, uh, that completely reverses his entire character. Kinda like making Batgirl Alfred's niece who likes to race day-glo motorcycles, huh? ;)

[Britboy]

I absolutely hate the idea of Robin being in any future Batman films.......
The only time I ever want to see Robin on the big screen is if they do a film version of 'The Dark Knight Returns'.....I'd be happy with that.....

[Ronny Shade]

I absolutely hate the idea of Robin being in any future Batman films.......
The only time I ever want to see Robin on the big screen is if they do a film version of 'The Dark Knight Returns'.....I'd be happy with that.....
you are not alone.


But when I say that I am positively not referring to myself :mad:

[Britboy]

I prefer anything Batman related when he is on his own.........cartoons , films , comics......

[Kritish]

No god damn Robin!

[The Kid]

Robin Forever!

He's a necessary part of batman's evolution as a character for goodness sakes.

Just like Rachael. **** and he has a cool costume.

[El Payaso]

Robin Forever!

He's a necessary part of batman's evolution as a character for goodness sakes.

Just like Rachael. **** and he has a cool costume.

Yes, rachel. What a great contribution.

[AnimeJune]

Yes, rachel. What a great contribution.Rachel contributed nothing to the Batman Begins films except for estrogen.

[El Payaso]

Rachel contributed nothing to the Batman Begins films except for estrogen.

:up: :up:

[Keyser Sushi]

Rachel contributed nothing to the Batman Begins films except for estrogen.

But estrogen is good. :up:

Actually I could make a case (and I have in the past) that Rachel did serve a storytelling purpose. I won't say that her purpose could not have been served by another character, or several other characters - because it could - but she did serve a purpose, and it was a purpose that set "Batman Begins" apart from all the previous Batman films. :up:

[AnimeJune]

But estrogen is good. :up:

Actually I could make a case (and I have in the past) that Rachel did serve a storytelling purpose. I won't say that her purpose could not have been served by another character, or several other characters - because it could - but she did serve a purpose, and it was a purpose that set "Batman Begins" apart from all the previous Batman films. :up:M'eh - to me, she was just a girl, one of a number that Batman has in one film, but no others. She just happens to be "chronologically" first.

[Keyser Sushi]

M'eh - to me, she was just a girl, one of a number that Batman has in one film, but no others. She just happens to be "chronologically" first.

Okay, that's basically true. But how about the fact that nearly every scene she was in, had to do with keeping Bruce in touch with his humanity, with his conscience, his soul? Previous Batman films have had Bruce as a quiet, nervous guy who is only really comfortable when he's in the suit beating the crap out of guys, and it was never clear whether his motivation was purely personal, or if he did indeed mean to serve the greater good. With each film they made the "greater good" thing more obvious, but at the cost of the character's, well, cojones.

Rachel's purpose was really as a storytelling device. I admit that it could have been handled better, and with other characters, but her purpose was to remind Bruce (and by proxy us, the audience) that Bruce can't allow his motivation to be purely personal. That he has to serve justice, not just vengeance, and that his actions define him as a human being and so he needs to always do the right thing, and not be tempted to vigilantism (Punisher style) just because he could.

Alfred could just as easily have served that purpose - and in some capacity he did - but where Alfred served as the voice of the family, as the keeper of the Wayne Legacy - Rachel was Bruce's conscience, the still small voice in each of us that reminds us to do the right thing when we have the option not to.

[The Guard]

Okay, that's basically true. But how about the fact that nearly every scene she was in, had to do with keeping Bruce in touch with his humanity, with his conscience, his soul?

I question whether that was neccessary. Were the writers reluctant to write Bruce as a flawed human being with some conflict as to what he wanted to do with his life and how that would affect him?

Previous Batman films have had Bruce as a quiet, nervous guy who is only really comfortable when he's in the suit beating the crap out of guys.

You left out "dark and brooding".

and it was never clear whether his motivation was purely personal, or if he did indeed mean to serve the greater good.

Good. That's absolutely a major point behind Batman's mission.

Rachel's purpose was really as a storytelling device. I admit that it could have been handled better, and with other characters, but her purpose was to remind Bruce (and by proxy us, the audience) that Bruce can't allow his motivation to be purely personal.

Again, I question why that was neccessary.

That he has to serve justice, not just vengeance, and that his actions define him as a human being and so he needs to always do the right thing, and not be tempted to vigilantism (Punisher style) just because he could.

See, that makes this BEGINS version of Bruce Wayne, well, in some ways, a bit less intelligent than he could be. The Bruce Wayne I know would have considered these things, or would come to these conclusions on his own. It makes him, I feel, a bit more one-dimensional and flat when he has to be told what's wrong with his thinking. I suppose my main beef with it is that it's when he started his mission that he would need to be reminded of these aspects, not before.

Alfred could just as easily have served that purpose - and in some capacity he did - but where Alfred served as the voice of the family, as the keeper of the Wayne Legacy - Rachel was Bruce's conscience, the still small voice in each of us that reminds us to do the right thing when we have the option not to.

But that's the point. Why do we need a character to be Bruce's conscience? Can't Bruce just be written with a conscience?

[batmaluco]

But that's the point. Why do we need a character to be Bruce's conscience? Can't Bruce just be written with a conscience?

:up:

[Keyser Sushi]

I question whether that was neccessary. Were the writers reluctant to write Bruce as a flawed human being with some conflict as to what he wanted to do with his life and how that would affect him?

Hello, my friend. Somehow I knew this would draw you out of your secret crime lab and gourmet kitchen to match wits with me again. Probably because this was one of the original debates we had last year. ;)

Anyway, I freely admit that it may not have been necessary to include Rachel. But the issue June and I were discussing was wether or not Rachel served a purpose, not whether said purpose was a necessary function of the plot.

You left out "dark and brooding".

This is true; largely because I was focusing on the points where Begins Bruce and Burton Bruce part ways. Both are dark and brooding, but Begins Bruce puts that away in public settings. Burton Bruce seems to make no real effort to hide the fact that he is a haunted and lonely man.

Good. That's absolutely a major point behind Batman's mission.

It is, and Begins dealt with that, too; but they made a point of saying outright that his goal is to serve the greater good, and that the temptation to go all "Punisher" is an aspect of his character that he must not give in to. I prefer a Batman with that measure of restraint, to the Frank Miller "ape****" Batman, which Burton's Batman often emulated.

Again, I question why that was neccessary.

It may or may not be necessary, but in the filmic medium it is sometimes useful to take what amounts to an internal conflict, and externalize it so that the character's thoughts and feelings are laid bare to the viewer.

See, that makes this BEGINS version of Bruce Wayne, well, in some ways, a bit less intelligent than he could be. The Bruce Wayne I know would have considered these things, or would come to these conclusions on his own. It makes him, I feel, a bit more one-dimensional and flat when he has to be told what's wrong with his thinking. I suppose my main beef with it is that it's when he started his mission that he would need to be reminded of these aspects, not before.

I do understand your point. But I think some of it is in your perspective. I don't think that Bruce didn't think about these things, or that he would not have come to those conclusions on his own. I do, however, figure that Nolan and Goyer didn't want Batman to talk to himself, so they externalized that conflict, using Rachel as the voice of Bruce's conscience. The operative word there is Bruce's conscience.

She is giving external voice to what is already within Bruce, not planting these thoughts in his head.

[Golgo-13]

I think Robin should be in the BB sequels but NOT in BB2. I think they should give hints in BB2 to show Robin will be in a different sequel. In my mind I think it would be cool to show like a flying grasons poster in BB2, and thats it

All i have to say is, if there is a god, Robin should never breathe the same air in a Nolan based Batman film as Batman....

[AnimeJune]

All i have to say is, if there is a god, Robin should never breathe the same air in a Nolan based Batman film as Batman....Hmmm...a lot of hate directed at Robin. Batman & Robin was a wretched movie, true, but I'm still of the opinion that anything, if done by a person with a knowledge and a love for the material, can be made into an entertaining movie.

Granted, I wouldn't want to see Robin in the movie right away, that doesn't mean that a Batman film with Robin in it is impossible to be good.

[Keyser Sushi]

Hmmm...a lot of hate directed at Robin. Batman & Robin was a wretched movie, true, but I'm still of the opinion that anything, if done by a person with a knowledge and a love for the material, can be made into an entertaining movie.

Granted, I wouldn't want to see Robin in the movie right away, that doesn't mean that a Batman film with Robin in it is impossible to be good.

Voice of reason. :up:

I was curious what your thoughts were on my defense of Rachel Dawes, though?

[Ronny Shade]

Keyser and the Gaurd again

I'd get involved, but honestly, I'm not in the mood.

[StorminNorman]

Keyser and the Gaurd again

I'd get involved, but honestly, I'm not in the mood.

They simply scare me with their big words and perfect grammar.

[AnimeJune]

Voice of reason. :up:

I was curious what your thoughts were on my defense of Rachel Dawes, though? Erm, let me put it this way - she seemed livelier after her brain was put through the Scientology Washing Machine. She should have been played by someone with more spunk.

[Keyser Sushi]

Erm, let me put it this way - she seemed livelier after her brain was put through the Scientology Washing Machine. She should have been played by someone with more spunk.

LOL. :) I can see that thou dost not like Katie Holmes. Nothing wrong with that, she isn't the greatest actress around... or even one of the most essentially competent. ;)

So if she'd been portrayed by a better actress, you wouldn't have had any problems with the character's inclusion?

[Hades]

The thnig that was so refresing about Begins compared to the other ones was that it focued on Bruce. The thing is if we add Robin is the movie will lose that I think. I mean, we already have enough characters as it is.

[thedarks0ldier]

At this point, I am for Robin as long as it is done for story purposes and done with class. If it is done anything like Leon the Professional then it would be cool.

If it is like Batman Forever or like Elektra (with that one kid) or if it seems like Mark Steven Johnson is behind it then **** NO

[Keyser Sushi]

The thnig that was so refresing about Begins compared to the other ones was that it focued on Bruce. The thing is if we add Robin is the movie will lose that I think. I mean, we already have enough characters as it is.

You're right. Which is why I think if Robin were to appear it should be in film 4, if there is a film 4, at a point where the current story-arc, which is about Batman, is concluded, and Robin's arc can be the second arc, which would work if handled one way and one way alone:

like Leon the Professional

That is the way it should be done, in films 4, 5, 6, should they happen. That way Batman's second arc is in dealing with this unfortunate kid... because, since Robin is a reflection of Bruce, it is about Robin but also about Bruce... like any parent being forced to confront his own issues in order to be a better mentor and guardian for the kid.

But as I say... if it happens, it should not be until film 4.

[batman7289]

i should have never starteed this thread

[Batman1939]

Introduce Grayson at the end of 2 or 3 and then probably in the fourth movie he could appear or something.

[Katsuro]

i should have never starteed this thread

Then why the hell did you bump it? This thread had to have been several pages down, judging by the date of the last post. You revive this thread, just to say you regret starting it? That's... the most idiotic thing i've ever witnessed.

[Nezodon]

I do have to say that i hope to never see Robin in the films because he removes the darkness from Batmans world which is what made Batman Begains and also the Micheal Keaton Batman.

Robin i dont think is needed in all honesty and it removes focus from the character which is central to the film which is Batman/Bruce Wayne.

I think with Bruce Wayne their is alot of personal depth to explore and so much that can be done about his character but the inclusion of Robin would draw attention from and we would end up eventualy with a love fest between Batman, Robin and Batgirl which wold further reduce the story to being more like the pathetic attempts of Val Kilmer and George Clooney.

[DGrayson]

Does anyone else think maybe robin is gonna be on the sequel or the third one?, I mean I am not confirming anything and I am not the biggest robin fan, but I think robin in the bat films is very similar to the way venom is on the spiderman ones in the sense that Raimi didn't wanted venom to be on the third film (or I think any of his spidey films) because he said he did'nt grew up with him as a comic book villain.

But Avi Arad and the studio pushed him to get venom on the sequel because fans wanted him to be onn the films. So maybe WB is gonna push for robin to be in one of the sequels like the third movie or so for the fans that want robin in the bat films.

My point is maybe the studio is gonna push for robin because some fans want him in the films, even if Nolan dosen't want it.

[aroundthefur33]

i think in the 4th movie....late in the movie...as grayson...then the next movie as robin, then by the 6th movie he leaves tobe nightwing...then the nightwing movie comes out and the 7th movie they kill jason todd, and in the 8th they find tim drake...thats not realistic...but it is what i think

[xwolverine2]

not to be

[batmaluco]

Not to be.

Next time Robin will write the story. :(
http://www.goldenagebatman.com/BAT0035a.JPG

[The Only Woj]

You know, this particular forum we're in is for the sequel (BB2). It's not for crazy opinions for future sequels, we have a forum for that already.

[griffolyon12]

I would really like to see Nolan tackle Robin,but not in BB2.I would though like to see Dick Grayson in BB3,he is taken in by Bruce but isn't Robin yet.And then if we get to a 4 or 5 then have him suit up,but as much as I like Robin it is too soon for Robin and not mention the angry cries from the Robin haters would just get annoying.

[7Hells]

I say nix Robin and go straight to Nightwing if Batman has to have help.
Unless they can make a Robin that isnt a joke.
I know Ill get stoned for this but maybe Nightwing could be done as a combination of Batgirl and robin?
A female Nightwing? A throwback to powergirl :D
Would be a cool idea if Superman and Batman ever combine. With that little nod to Gotham in SR I can see it happening though hope it doesnt.
*ducks*
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/sachem/160px-NightwingKandor.jpg