God, I just finished reading War Crimes, and...

[Ibn]

Dear God. What the hell are you guys opinion on the revelation in the end about Leslie? I'd read whispers of how in the comics Leslie was a murderer now. But I thought maybe it was accidental. But now..... God. How did you guys react?

[CConn]

It sucks harder than a well trained vietnamese prostitute.

[The Question]

It's a bad bad thing. Who wrote it, by the by?

[Spike_x1]

That characterization has pretty much been universally urinated on by the fans. :o

[CConn]

It's a bad bad thing. Who wrote it, by the by?Willingham and Gabrych, but it was Willingham who wrote that particular issue.

[hippie_hunter]

It was a good story, but damn, that goes right up there in the Hall of Fame of Comic Book Bastardizations of a Character.

[Ibn]

It was a good story, but damn, that goes right up there in the Hall of Fame of Comic Book Bastardizations of a Character.

The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. God, I always loved the concept that, even though Bruce's parents were killed, Alfred and Leslie basically filled that void. After all Bruce has been through w/ Leslie, THIS is how it ends. I am so f---in pissed off w/ this. She let Stephanie die to STOP VIOLENCE? What the hell kind of B.S. is that? Then, the way it ended, w/ Bruce basically severing all ties w/ her in a single moment. That was such bull. To Hell w/ this B.S. and Death and the Maidens (that might have been even crappier). How the hell is Grant Morrison supposed to fix this crap. Anyone have any updates, like on Leslie? Cause this is some serious bull.

[CConn]

The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. God, I always loved the concept that, even though Bruce's parents were killed, Alfred and Leslie basically filled that void. After all Bruce has been through w/ Leslie, THIS is how it ends. I am so f---in pissed off w/ this. She let Stephanie die to STOP VIOLENCE? What the hell kind of B.S. is that? Then, the way it ended, w/ Bruce basically severing all ties w/ her in a single moment. That was such bull.It's comics. It happens.
To Hell w/ this B.S. and Death and the Maidens (that might have been even crappier).Most thought Death and Maidens was quite well written. I certainly did.
How the hell is Grant Morrison supposed to fix this crap.Since his arc really has nothing to do with this, he probably won't even address it.
Anyone have any updates, like on Leslie? Cause this is some serious bull.Nope, nothing. It'll probably just be forgotten. For the immediate future, at least.

[Ibn]

It's comics. It happens.
Most thought Death and Maidens was quite well written. I certainly did.
Since his arc really has nothing to do with this, he probably won't even address it.
Nope, nothing. It'll probably just be forgotten. For the immediate future, at least.

Oh no. Death and the Maidens definitely SUCKED ASS. You are telling me that you are fine w/ how they killed off Ra's and made Talia into a complete dumbass? Screw Greg Rucka for LIFE! Death and the Maidens was atrocious......................................... .......................................


......... UNLIKE THEM MAVERICKS BABY! DID YOU SEE THAT S**T? HOT DAMN! UP 3-! OVER DAMN SAN ANTONIO! But, alas, the series is far from over......... But still......... WHAT A HELL OF A SHOW!:up: :) :eek:

[Motown Marvel]

dude, that buls#!t blatant bastardization of leslie's character pissed me off so much! she was such a great character in the bat-books with a unique relationship to bruce...and willingham just destroyed all that in the worst way possible...also, i cant believe DC editors allowed it!

[Lazlo Panaflex]

That blows all chances of seeing Bea Arthur as Leslie in the Batman sequel :(

[nite-owl]

I only liked the Gabrych issues, Willingham ones were crap.

[theMan-Bat]

Bill Willingham's "War Crimes" Black Mask as Batman gimmick :down

[Whack Arnolds]

Get off that "bastardization of the character" crap... it's an on-going story. People change, as do characters. Get over it, and roll with the punches. It's just a comic.

[theMan-Bat]

Get off that "it's just a comic" crap. "Just a comic"? It's that attitude that holds the industry back and is excepting of crap like "War Crimes" because it's "just a comic". So you consider comic books junk. That's downright insulting. Comic books are an art form and can be great when written well with respect and love for the characters.

[War Lord]

Leslie is a murderer?

Noooooooooooo!!

Who's Leslie?

[theMan-Bat]

Leslie is a murderer?

Noooooooooooo!!

Who's Leslie?

Lol!

[Whack Arnolds]

Get off that "it's just a comic" crap. "Just a comic"? It's that attitude that holds the industry back and is excepting of crap like "War Crimes" because it's "just a comic". So you consider comic books junk. That's downright insulting. Comic books are an art form and can be great when written well with respect and love for the characters.Yeah, no one's disagreeing...nor was anyone saying that accepting a change is holding something back. Obviously the change wasn't meant to **** with fans, or **** with the characters themselves...but it is done to make a possibly more interesting and better story. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, numb nuts.

[theMan-Bat]

"numb nuts"? Turning to name calling. :o

[LorDZeeD]

ah - it's a "new earth" now. it war crimes never happened. that's what lets me sleep at night so i'm sticking to it.

[theMan-Bat]

:up:

[Ibn]

ah - it's a "new earth" now. it war crimes never happened. that's what lets me sleep at night so i'm sticking to it.

Please explain sir! (Can't afford monthly comics)

[CConn]

Get off that "bastardization of the character" crap... it's an on-going story. People change, as do characters. Get over it, and roll with the punches. It's just a comic.Get off that "it's just a comic" crap. "Just a comic"? It's that attitude that holds the industry back and is excepting of crap like "War Crimes" because it's "just a comic". So you consider comic books junk. That's downright insulting. Comic books are an art form and can be great when written well with respect and love for the characters.Personally, I believe there's a healthy balance you can acchive. I care whether or not a character's done poorly. I care if something stupid or wrong or whatever happens - I don't want to see it happen.

But, when it does happen, I don't totally wig out, I don't swear or comics or the writer or whatever. I say it sucks, I move on. I hope it's forgotten or rewritten or changed later, but I don't let it affect me any more than that.

The anger some people express - Ibn in this instance - is usually an overreaction, IMO, and honestly quite pointless.

[Ibn]

Personally, I believe there's a healthy balance you can acchive. I care whether or not a character's done poorly. I care if something stupid or wrong or whatever happens - I don't want to see it happen.

But, when it does happen, I don't totally wig out, I don't swear or comics or the writer or whatever. I say it sucks, I move on. I hope it's forgotten or rewritten or changed later, but I don't let it affect me any more than that.

The anger some people express - Ibn in this instance - is usually an overreaction, IMO, and honestly quite pointless.

You mean the same "It sucks, I move on" theory that you so righteously displayed? Overreaction? Sorry man, but for a character like Ra's al Ghul, who is my second favorite villain ever (I'm talkin Joker, than Ra's, than VADER), it's kinda hard to just let go when someone completely ruins his character. I don't see how it's any different from trying to let go of, say, Jordan hitting that last second shot to beat Cleveland. Death and the Maidens sucked. Point blank. I was simply stating my SIMPLE opinion. I'm not about to go throw myself off a building b/c of it. If someone just up and killed Batman - I mean someone just up and stabs him - you'd be okay w/ that? Hell no you wouldn't! And the thing w/ Leslie IS really stupid. All I'm saying is, at the very least, give them a last hoora, ya know? Ra's just got stabbed........... then died. What the hell was that about? One minute, Leslie is Bruce's SUPPORTING, patient mother figure. The next, she's a murderer? I mean c'mon.

....... Now back to business. The Mavs have a 3-1 lead over San Antonio. Who wants to bet they lose the series:ghost: ? CConn:yellow: ?

[Pksoze]

You mean the same "It sucks, I move on" theory that you so righteously displayed? Overreaction? Sorry man, but for a character like Ra's al Ghul, who is my second favorite villain ever (I'm talkin Joker, than Ra's, than VADER), it's kinda hard to just let go when someone completely ruins his character. I don't see how it's any different from trying to let go of, say, Jordan hitting that last second shot to beat Cleveland. Death and the Maidens sucked. Point blank. I was simply stating my SIMPLE opinion. I'm not about to go throw myself off a building b/c of it. If someone just up and killed Batman - I mean someone just up and stabs him - you'd be okay w/ that? Hell no you wouldn't! And the thing w/ Leslie IS really stupid. All I'm saying is, at the very least, give them a last hoora, ya know? Ra's just got stabbed........... then died. What the hell was that about? One minute, Leslie is Bruce's SUPPORTING, patient mother figure. The next, she's a murderer? I mean c'mon.
?


Ra's will be back... somehow....

When the lead writer Geof Johns mentions him alive in Teen Titans.


Leslies character was indeed screwed, but she should never have been a major character anyway. She was created to be a one shot, and a one shot she should have stayed.

Still I hope it can be retconned in that she helped Stephanie fake her death or something like that.


Still Willingham's personal FU to *****y comics fans earned him points with me.

As for the NBA part... my only answer is when does the NFL start again.

[Ibn]

Ra's will be back... somehow....

When the lead writer Geof Johns


Leslies character was indeed screwed, but she should never have been a major character anyway. She was created to be a one shot, and a one shot she should have stayed.

Still I hope it can be retconned in that she helped Stephanie fake her death or something like that.


Still Willingham's personal FU to *****y comics fans earned him points with me.

As for the NBA part... my only answer is when does the NFL start again.

Redskins Baby!:supes:

[LorDZeeD]

Please explain sir! (Can't afford monthly comics)

erm, as you haven't yet read the material i'm reffering to, this counts as a spoiler. i don't really want to spoil such a wonderful story for you so i'd recommend not highliting the text below, and just taking my earlier comment
as insane ramblings.

still, if you can't wait:

the world got, for lack of a better term, rebooted, in infinite crisis - meaning many things have been retconned, such as the waynes' killer having been found and wonder woman forming the original jla. we are yet to find out what all the changes are, but i like to think bane's no longer a pansy and leslie's no longer a *****

[theMan-Bat]

The post-Infinity Crisis Silver Age-y DCU:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/rudeboy-/spoofcrisis7p2.gif
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8648/scan00331oa.jpg
No longer the "a-hole" loner Batman but be careful what you wish for.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/rudeboy-/spoofbatman_model.jpg
The post-Crisis DCU was Golden Age-ish (Byrne's Solo Survivor of Krypton Superman who never was Superboy and less powerful then the Silver Age pre-Crisis/post-Infinity Crisis Superman. Miller/O'Neil's dark loner mysterious urban legend Batman with an unknown killer, etc.).
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/rudeboy-/superman11.jpghttp://www.superherotimes.com/news/images/YearoneHardcover.jpg
War Crimes is just bad writing.

[Ibn]

the world got, for lack of a better term, rebooted, in infinite crisis - meaning many things have been retconned, such as the waynes' killer having been found and wonder woman forming the original jla. we are yet to find out what all the changes are, but i like to think bane's no longer a pansy and leslie's no longer a *****

Dear God. I mean, I've been keeping up w/ infinite crisis, I'm still waiting on issue seven. But........ God. The Wayne murderer has been found?!! Wonder Woman forming the original JLA? Anything else I'm missing (besides batman OYL stuff)? Or should I just wait until the new Infinite Crisis comes out?

[theMan-Bat]

As the text says "And that's just the beginning."

[LorDZeeD]

Man-Bat's pretty much posted the only other ref in issue seven. take a closer look at your issue six the page with the shards of images folding into new earth it has a few clues as to what's in and what's out. only a few, but it's fun to over analyse!

[Joker]

Infinite Crisis probably ret-conned it :o