Hawkingbird No More! YA spoliers within

[Zaptoitnow]

Well, the OHOTMU just made it official. It lists Kate's new name as Hawkeye, as of YA # 12.

[Zaptoitnow]

Damn, but reading that Handbook further has also turned up that Iron Lad is now wearing Kang Clothing (sans blue mask) and watching the YA from the future.

[Doc Destruction]

You have to be kidding. Ugh.

[Elijya]

:mad:

[Darthphere]

Jesus Christ, Hawkeye is back, get it, they didnt lie, you see ****ing ****ers.

[Dread]

Damn, but reading that Handbook further has also turned up that Iron Lad is now wearing Kang Clothing (sans blue mask) and watching the YA from the future.
To be fair, this tidbit was made evident in the YOUNG AVENGERS SPECIAL #1, which was released months ago. A panel clearly shows Kang watching the YA from the future. Anyone who honestly didn't see that as an Iron Lad thing maybe, well...nevermind.

The codename did surprise me. An actualy LEGACY hero in the MU! Good lord! I thought they only happened to X-Men or supervillians (Goblins, Chemistro, Mysterio, etc).

[Elijya]

What X-Men are legacies? Only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Angel, which is a name that's just sort of been passed around, and Phoenix, which passed from mother to daughter.

[Zaptoitnow]

I'd kind of like the idea of Hawkeye showing up in YA and taking interest in training Kate as a legacy. It'd be a nice turn of events since the Jessica Jones "parenting" didn't really make it into the final execution.

[Elijya]

I like Kate Bishop, I just want Clint back, and another character taking his name seems to make that more unlikely :(



but hey, Ollie and Conner were both Green Arrow at the same time

[Dread]

What X-Men are legacies? Only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Angel, which is a name that's just sort of been passed around, and Phoenix, which passed from mother to daughter.
There's also Thunderbird.

X-23 is essentially "Wolverina".

Cable is a time-flung part of the Summers line. X-Man used to be, too.

[Elijya]

Thunderbird 1 and 3 didn't have anything in common except the name.

I know Warpath was Thunderbird when he FIRST appeared, but is he renaming himself Thunderbird when he joins when Brubaker takes over?

and I wouldn't really count X-23. To me, a "legacy" is when you specificly act to take over the mantle of a previous hero. I dunno, it's kinda tricky

[Anubis]

What about Banshee's daughter?

[Colossal Spoons]

I refuse to call her Hawkeye.

[Dread]

I just like the fact that someone wants to honor Hawkeye's legacy, and its not even a blood relation, but an admired fan. Go Kate Bishop. Like you said, DC didn't shatter with two Green Arrow's running loose. Heck, wasn't Jason Todd still Robin when Dick Grayson was also Robin in TEEN TITANS (before the shift to Nightwing)?

YOUNG AVENGERS basically is a rare example of Marvel doing right with teen heroes and even old hero legacies (Ant-Man's pointless death was given a lot of meaning by Cassie here; shame she went with "Stature" instead of "Giant-Girl". The former doesn't roll off the tongue as well). Shame the book'll be on haitus soon.

Besides, this is hardly the wiggiest thing Marvel's done. If you'd told me about 5 years ago that Spider-Man'd be Iron Man's partner, clad in armor, living in a "deluxe apartment in the sky-high-high" and a member of the Avengers, I'd have said, "You've GOT to be kidding me". Oh well.

[Anubis]

Does it really matter? So she's called Hawkeye now. Big deal. Still say Hawkeye's gonna be the bogus DD that's running around Hellz Kitchen.

[Zaptoitnow]

I think he's a very likely suspect, but I still like that Millar and Brubaker haven't dropped too many clues to where it's obvious, and it could still go either way.

[Doc Destruction]

I refuse to call her Hawkeye.

I agree completely.

[bkhedr]

Well, the OHOTMU just made it official. It lists Kate's new name as Hawkeye, as of YA # 12.

Nooooo!!!

I'm off to commit Seppuku

[BrianWilly]

What does it matter, really? "Hawkingbird" was okay, but "Hawkeye" gets everyone's panties in a pretzel?

It's not like the Handbooks are actually all that official -- or accurate, for that matter -- anyway. And remember "Titan?" The way Heinberg writes these guys, their codenames could change at any moment.

[Doc Destruction]

We'd like to see Hawkeye be Hawkeye, thanks.

[Darthphere]

Patriot needs to change his name to Lt. America then.

[Dew k. Mosi]

Clint Barton is the new Daredevil. That's my guess.

[TheCorpulent1]

Looks like Young Avengers just racked up its first misstep among fans. It's lame that she's taking Clint's name, but I think the real Hawkeye will be back eventually so I don't really care.

[slipalong]

I like it.

Lets face it, she's taken on Hawkeye's role in the team anyway so what's the big deal?

I'd love to see Ares take an interest in her when he comes to earth... Give her some SERIOUS weapons and fighting training.

[SLVRSR4]

:eek: I have been living a lie i will be back with reason why she should not be named hawkeye:o :)

[Roughneck]

Has she ever even shot an arrow?

[Kotagg]

Blah blah - Hawkeye was boring as hell anyway. At least looking at Hawkeye now will be aesthetically appeasing. :D

[BrianWilly]

She's shot plenty of arrows. Against Kang, against Hyde...etc etc.

[deemar325]

I'm not feeling it.

Kate as Hawkeye is an insult to how Clint got the axe by Bendis.

[Darthphere]

Blah blah - Hawkeye was boring as hell anyway. At least looking at Hawkeye now will be aesthetically appeasing. :D


Then people ask why artists draw women with big boobs. Because of fans like this.

[deemar325]

Then people ask why artists draw women with big boobs. Because of fans like this.

Big boobs are fine, but it's when it's for a shallow effect that it's annoying.

Fans who are like said, poster are retards.

[Kotagg]

Ahh, yes Darth - lump me in with a group of adolescent teens simply because I'm straight and like how women look. That makes sense.

I was joking about the last part; I know that forums aren't the best medium for jokes, as they don't convey intent or facial expressions, but I thought that's what the smiley faces were for. Get your heads out of your asses, guys.

I was NOT joking, however, about how Clint Barton is one of the most boring, one-dimensional characters I've ever read about.

[Darthphere]

I was NOT joking, however, about how Clint Barton is one of the most boring, one-dimensional characters I've ever read about.



Thats cool, its your opinion. I just find your opinion to be a really crappy one.

[deemar325]

Ahh, yes Darth - lump me in with a group of adolescent teens simply because I'm straight and like how women look. That makes sense.

I was joking about the last part; I know that forums aren't the best medium for jokes, as they don't convey intent or facial expressions, but I thought that's what the smiley faces were for. Get your heads out of your asses, guys.

I was NOT joking, however, about how Clint Barton is one of the most boring, one-dimensional characters I've ever read about.

Agree to disagree.

Hawkeye has consistently been one of the more interesting Avengers.

[Colossal Spoons]

Wouldn't big boobs hinder her arrow shooting ability?

[Kotagg]

See now, I can respect that, Darth. What I can't respect is people degrading me.

You're usually a cool enough cat, but that was just uncalled for. ;)

[Darthphere]

Wouldn't big boobs hinder her arrow shooting ability?


Yes, this is why the Amazons would cut off one of their boobs.

[Darthphere]

See now, I can respect that, Darth. What I can't respect is people degrading me.

You're usually a cool enough cat, but that was just uncalled for. ;)


Maybe. But you dont talk about Hawkeye like that.:mad: :mad:

[deemar325]

Wouldn't big boobs hinder her arrow shooting ability?

She could always switch to popping ping-pong balls out her cleavage.

[Kotagg]

HA!

Hawkeye has consistently been one of the more interesting Avengers.

I'll be honest too, Deemar. I actually think ALL of the older Avengers, other than Stark, are extremely dull. This is why I'm one of the only people on these boards that loves New Avengers. :D

[Darthphere]

I dont think Tony has done anything worth mentioning since Demon in a Bottle.

[Colossal Spoons]

Yes, this is why the Amazons would cut off one of their boobs.

I just read that part in Y:The Last Man. Ugh.

[Darthphere]

I just read that part in Y:The Last Man. Ugh.


Im sure they probably ate that boob after.

[deemar325]

Im sure they probably ate that boob after.

For some reason that doesn't gross me out, it does the opposite.

[deemar325]

HA!



I'll be honest too, Deemar. I actually think ALL of the older Avengers, other than Stark, are extremely dull. This is why I'm one of the only people on these boards that loves New Avengers. :D

Kotagg theres is nothing boring about Quicksilver,Captain America,Hercules or Thor. These guys are mad interesting.

[Kotagg]

Then people ask why artists draw women with big boobs. Because of fans like this.

:P Haha!

[Kotagg]

Yeah I'll take that back, Quicksilver is one of my favorite characters. People like Thor, Captain America, Hawkeye, Hercules, Vision, and others just bore the living fack out of me.

[Darthphere]

Yeah I'll take that back, Quicksilver is one of my favorite characters. People like Thor, Captain America, Hawkeye, Hercules, Vision, and others just bore the living fack out of me.


Thor and Hercules-They are Gods amongst mens. If anything theyre interesting because theyre so based in their own mythologies.

Captain AMerica-Is interesting because he'll always be the man out of time. Hes the soldier who serves his country proudly but will stand up for his own ideals even if that means go against the country he serves.

Hawkeye-A ex villain who is charming, kind of a jerk but always comes through when you need him. One of the best fighters in the world due to his training with Cap and hes even trusted enough to be team leader in Cap's absence.

Vision- An android who is filled with human emotions but cant really act on them due to him being a robot. In a sense, hes the most human of all of the Avenegers.


Interesting as hell if you ask me.

[deemar325]

Yeah I'll take that back, Quicksilver is one of my favorite characters. People like Thor, Captain America, Hawkeye, Hercules, Vision, and others just bore the living fack out of me.

Herc = Drunken, horny and utterly stupid (near retard) half-god.

Cap = Man out of time, who is the living embodiment of the American dream and is constantly at odd with his government.

Thor = Loves a good brew and is very taken with humanity, has badass adventures from earth to Asgard and carries a big facking Hammer to smite evil.

Hawkeye = Snarky ladies man who is constantly questioning Cap's authority, yet he is the one guy who would tow the line to save his comrades even though he's just a guy with a bow and arrow and cajones the size of Manhattan.

Vision = You got me there.

[Kotagg]

Thor and Hercules-They are Gods amongst mens. If anything theyre interesting because theyre so based in their own mythologies.

The boring part abouty them, in my opinion, is their overwhelming power. I don't like extremely powerful or Cosmic characters, unless they stay relegated to a Cosmic setting. Also, I'm a HUGE student of mythology: this has a two-fold effect on me. First, I see any discrepancy as extremely annoying. Second, I like them better IN their mythological settings, and not here.

Captain AMerica-Is interesting because he'll always be the man out of time. Hes the soldier who serves his country proudly but will stand up for his own ideals even if that means go against the country he serves.

I also have problems with the "Paladin" characters, if you know anything about D&D or other similar fantasy settings. A character that is always good is the most boring thing to read - I like truly conflicted characters; REAL people, if you will.

Hawkeye-A ex villain who is charming, kind of a jerk but always comes through when you need him. One of the best fighters in the world due to his training with Cap and hes even trusted enough to be team leader in Cap's absence.

This has been done a million times before, from Han Solo to Itolacus to Tyrion Lannister.

Vision- An android who is filled with human emotions but cant really act on them due to him being a robot. In a sense, hes the most human of all of the Avenegers.

Data, anyone?

[Darthphere]

Just because its been done before doesnt mean its not entertaining. Its clear to me you dont know much about these characters. By the way hawkeye predates Han Solo.

[deemar325]

The boring part abouty them, in my opinion, is their overwhelming power. I don't like extremely powerful or Cosmic characters, unless they stay relegated to a Cosmic setting. Also, I'm a HUGE student of mythology: this has a two-fold effect on me. First, I see any discrepancy as extremely annoying. Second, I like them better IN their mythological settings, and not here.

Setting/shmettings, Herc and Thor rock!! If you can get behind a guy with a bigass Hammer and a drunken dude who can toss mountains then your a lost cause.



I also have problems with the "Paladin" characters, if you know anything about D&D or other similar fantasy settings. A character that is always good is the most boring thing to read - I like truly conflicted characters; REAL people, if you will.

Theres plenty of conflict in Cap, just cause he's not a hairy, homocidal midget with claws doesn't mean Cap isn't badass.


This has been done a million times before, from Han Solo to Itolacus to Tyrion Lannister.

Um..Han Solo is more Hawkeye than Clint is Solo. Get your cronology straight.



Data, anyone?

Data!? Data!? hey guy Data is a straight rip off of Vision, Vision predates Data by three decades. Hell even Data's yellowish complextion is a rip off Vision when he got a 'new' body in the early 80's with the 'pale look'.

Stan Lee practicaly is the foundation that George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Wachowski Brothers and every other sci-fi/fantasy director and comicbook writer has based their shtick off of.

Darthvader = Dr.Doom

Han Solo/Indiana Jones = Hawkeye

Matrix/Neo = Silver Surfer/everything Stan did!

Terminator = Wolverine's metal skeleton

the Incredibles = Fantastic Four!!

Data = Vision!!

Come on guy, get a clue.

[Kotagg]

Yeah, no. Sorry, you misinterpreted me.

I care not about the literal chronology of these things. Keep in mind I'm sharing opinions here; I don't pontificate and act like my opinions are fact.

*I* watched Star Wars before I read comics. *I* watched Star Trek and read many fantasy books before reading comics. Therefore, these things are old hat to *me*. And that's the reason that they are tired when I read them.

As an aside, I think that this - Stan Lee practicaly is the foundation that George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Wachowski Brothers and every other sci-fi/fantasy director and comicbook writer has based their shtick off of.
- is definitely debatable. :D

[Lord Blackbolt]

isn't there a Hawkeye movie in the works.... I wonder if they'll change him into a GIRL in the movie

[deemar325]

It's debatable, yet when you really look at it all these directors I've sited are mad geeks who gave props to Stan on many occasions and admit that they where influenced by Stan Lee and his contemparies.

Just cause Star Wars was your 'vice' of choice, doesn't negate the fact George Lucas was not only a Flash Gordon fan, but also a freak for Marvel comics and Silver surfer in particular. You don't think that didn't effect him in some way when he created StarWars and made a villian in Darthvader thats practicaly Dr.Doom in nature.

Both have an obsession with death and ressurection, both have close relationships/obsessions with their 'mothers' both happen to wear cloaked armor and masks that hide their disfigurements, both have or utilize magical powers. Vader is Doom with a few tweaks and a coating of black leather.

Whether it's 'old hat' to you Stan was a major influence.

[Darthphere]

It's debatable, yet when you really look at it all these directors I've sited are mad geeks who gave props to Stan on many occasions and admit that they where influenced by Stan Lee and his contemparies.

Just cause Star Wars was your 'vice' of choice, doesn't negate the fact George Lucas was not only a Flash Gordon fan, but also a freak for Marvel comics and Silver surfer in particular. You don't think that didn't effect him in some way when he created StarWars and made a villian in Darthvader thats practicaly Dr.Doom in nature.

Both have an obsession with death and ressurection, both have close relationships/obsessions with their 'mothers' both happen to wear cloaked armor and masks that hide their disfigurements, both have or utilize magical powers. Vader is Doom with a few tweaks and a coating of black leather.

Whether it's 'old hat' to you Stan was a major influence.


Actually, Star Wars is more likely a rip-off of Jack kirby's New Gods, just ask WIlhelm.

[deemar325]

Actually, Star Wars is more likely a rip-off of Jack kirby's New Gods, just ask WIlhelm.

Very true! Well you get my point.

Eitherway Kirby,Stan,Ditko, Lein Wein and Claremont all had an influence, especially now with the up and coming generation of creative talent in both Hollywood and Comics.

JJ Abrahams pretty much copied guys like Alan Moore and Grant Morrison and Chris Claremont's writing style and applied it to T.V.

Wachowski Bros it's all over there work and they started in comics.

[Kotagg]

Oh we're agreed that every creation is influenced by creations before it. That's fine. I'm just saying that the archetypes presented here didn't *start* with comics, or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or anything of that nature: they've been around for decades and centuries, in all sorts of media.

Some are just more tired than others, in my not-so-humble opinion. ;)

[deemar325]

No prob.

End of the day it's just opinions.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh we're agreed that every creation is influenced by creations before it. That's fine. I'm just saying that the archetypes presented here didn't *start* with comics, or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or anything of that nature: they've been around for decades and centuries, in all sorts of media.

Some are just more tired than others, in my not-so-humble opinion. ;)
It's all a matter of perspective. Most of the archetypes found in comics have been around for centuries. Different people take to different archetypes. Personally, I find the troubled loner archetype really, really, really boring at this point, since there's only so much sulking I can take from an alleged badass.

[Kotagg]

Agreed. Actually, I'm in a phase where my favorite characters are the people who are *gasp* regular people thrust into a crazy world. Archetypes in general annoy me lately.

[Darthphere]

Agreed. Actually, I'm in a phase where my favorite characters are the people who are *gasp* regular people thrust into a crazy world. Archetypes in general annoy me lately.


Thats an archetype.:o

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep. The whole point of Jesus was that he was an everyman, after all. ;)

[deemar325]

Boo Yah!!! ^

[Kotagg]

Thats an archetype.

Yeah, but that's semantics. You get my drift - I mean contrived archetypes. Things that can be classified because they were created to be classified.

Even the "everyman" isn't the same thing as an everyday person with no gimmicks. The difference is a difficult thing to point out, so I won't try, but I think you can understand what I mean.

[Darthphere]

Yeah, but that's semantics. You get my drift - I mean contrived archetypes. Things that can be classified because they were created to be classified.

Even the "everyman" isn't the same thing as an everyday person with no gimmicks. The difference is a difficult thing to point out, so I won't try, but I think you can understand what I mean.


I can argue semantics better than Bill Clinton, you better watch out.

[deemar325]

"I did not have sexual intercourse with that Frank Cho drawing of She-Hulk."

[Anubis]

Then why is it all sticky and smells of bleach?

[Kotagg]

Haha see, this place is much better when people realize it's all about fun.

[deemar325]

Then why is it all sticky and smells of bleach?

"I have mislead the American people, yes I did indeed have sexual intercourse with a drawing of She-Hulk as drawn by one Frank Cho."


:(