Spider-Man Begins

[Tangled Web]

I don't know where this should go. With the unsettling news of SM3, I hope one day we'll get the Batman treatment and get a more faithful version of our beloved Spidey.

[CConn]

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9692/cap100a9kx.gif

No.

[Batman]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/3695/allstaravvy7vo.png

No.

[zer00]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/zer00jokerman/luthorstandalone.gif
*disagrees*

[Tangled Web]

Never? Not ever? So people's memories of movie Spider-Man will forever be organic shooters, power ranger costumes, ugly MJ, little venom, raider symbiote suit?

[Edd Extraordinaire]

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/3747/docbrown4hm.gif

NEVER!

[Matt Murdock]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40250000/jpg/_40250409_donald2.jpg

not ever

[blind_fury]

Never? Not ever? So people's memories of movie Spider-Man will forever be organic shooters, power ranger costumes, ugly MJ, little venom, raider symbiote suit?
We'll get a REAL Spider-man one day. Mediocrity be damned.

[Matt Murdock]

meh

i doubt it

[The Amazing Lee]

http://www.nwdrizzle.com/drizzle/0407/images/neil/jameson3x.jpg
Never ever ever!

[Green Goblin 1964]

NO NEVER THIS IS BEST SPIDEY EVA!

[kooguy911]

batman didnt get begins untill 16 years after batman 89. that means it would be like 2018 before we would get that, and there would be a ver horrible film in between now and then.

[matthooper]

I don't know where this should go.

In a pile of dog crap.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well......I'm sure there will be a relaunch..............eventually.

My guess?

20 or 25 years from now.

[Matt Murdock]

i hope not.

the world doesnt need anymore lame superhero movies.

[The Kid]

Some day we'll get the real spidey on screen, I hope.

[Tangled Web]

Batman got a cool restart, I think Spider-Man deserves one someday.

[Abaddon]

It's been a box office and critical darling,so no.

[CConn]

Batman got a cool restart, I think Spider-Man deserves one someday.Except you're ignoring the fundamental differences in the Spider-Man film series the original Batman film series.

Firstly, the original Batman series didn't start with an origin - let alone one that was basically ripped directly from the comics like SM1's was (seriously, go look at AF #15. Minus the Spidey the Celebrity business, it's near identical to the first 20 minutes or so of SM1).

Secondly, there has yet to be a Spider-Man movie that has been a critical or financial failure like B&R was. The Spider-Man series, thusfar, has been nothing short of spectacular with near-universal critical support, unbelieve box offices, and very positive reactions by the general public.

Thirdly, while I might agree the Spider-Man movies have yet to capture the essence of Spider-Man as well as BB did for Batman, I will argue to the death that, storywise, BB is any more faithful than either Spider-Man 1 or 2. There was plenty of changes made to Batman's origin, the villains, the events, etc. that took place in BB.

Personally, I think your whole need for this restart is little more than a case of the grass always being greener. You're a Spider-Man fan - you may like Batman or whatever, I don't know - but firstly, you're a Spider-Man fan, and will always be - and being a Spider-Man fan, makes you all the more aware of the flaws of the Spider-Man movies, and all the less aware of the flaws of Batman Begins.

Now, that being said, I'm sure Spider-Man will get plenty of restarts, re-imaginations, etc. in the future - that's just how superhero franchises have always worked - but for this...generation of films, the Spider-Man movies are generally considered two of the best superhero films ever made, and are, at least, an acceptable interpretation of the character. There is, again only in my opinion, little to no reason to restart them this soon, and for the reasons you have so far layed out.

[Tangled Web]

I guess you're right about the grass being greener on the other side. Well, let's see how the 3rd one turns out and then restart discussion may become more realistic.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I just don't trust studios. Eventually, the studio will try and milk the franchise for all it's worth, way after Rami and Magurie departs.....and then the franchise will suffer for it, all b/c the studio wants to cash in that check.

Plus.....whatever director who gets a hold of it AFTER Rami might want to "re-imagine" it, ya know?

But...I think that's sooooo far down the line....I mean...atleast 20 years from happening....so there.

[iceberg325]

Batman got a cool restart, I think Spider-Man deserves one someday.

I think it deserves a restart if the moves were bad. IMO spidey 1 and 2 were really good.

[Spider-Fan83]

A reboot wouldn't be fully necessary cause though, the movies weren't perfect, they weren't terrible either. but, I'd still say, instead of continuing to make sequels, (I really can’t see Tobey being spider-man for 2-3 more movies, over the next 7-8 years) I could see a new version, as like a spin off kinda thing, where they can recast a start over a new, maybe with like the ultimate storyline, or any of the other storylines, or even alternate storylines and timelines.

[Abaddon]

Except you're ignoring the fundamental differences in the Spider-Man film series the original Batman film series.

Firstly, the original Batman series didn't start with an origin - let alone one that was basically ripped directly from the comics like SM1's was (seriously, go look at AF #15. Minus the Spidey the Celebrity business, it's near identical to the first 20 minutes or so of SM1).


Genetically engineered spiders,Mary Jane,Uncle Ben being carjacked,beating up Flash,etc. doesn't make it near identical.

[Cyclops]

No, but the most important stuff was there. Peter got bit by an enhanced spider (instead of the 1960s concern withradiation, we get the 2000s concern genetic engineering type stuff), Peter gets cocky, decides to make money off his powers, goes to wrestle (changing the wrestler from 1960s name Crusher Hogan, which to a mainstream audience would be too similar to Hulk Hogan, to more modern Bonesaw McGraw), and refuses to stop a burglar who then goes to kill Uncle Ben.

Cosmetically, it's different. Intrinsically, everything that was important about Amazing Fantasy # 15 was right there in the movie.

[iceberg325]

No, but the most important stuff was there. Peter got bit by an enhanced spider (instead of the 1960s concern withradiation, we get the 2000s concern genetic engineering type stuff), Peter gets cocky, decides to make money off his powers, goes to wrestle (changing the wrestler from 1960s name Crusher Hogan, which to a mainstream audience would be too similar to Hulk Hogan, to more modern Bonesaw McGraw), and refuses to stop a burglar who then goes to kill Uncle Ben.

Cosmetically, it's different. Intrinsically, everything that was important about Amazing Fantasy # 15 was right there in the movie.\

You're right and since those little details are so minor, there is no need at all for a restart of this franchise. I like it the way it is.

["Iron Man"]

Guys, calm down. There will probably never be a "re-boot" of the Spider-Man franchise, but once S-M6 is long over, about 15 to 20 years after that, we'll get......"Spider-Man Returns". It shall be the bestest spiderman movie ever! Actually, I think it would be cool to make a returns movie about spiderman. Like, have SM6 end with Peter leaving New York to "find himself" or something like that....15 years later..."Spider-Man Returns"...Sypnosis: Following an absence of 3 years (or however many), Peter Parker returns to good ol' New York City, only to find that Mary Jane (if she's still alive by then) Watson has moved on, married Morris Bench (who will become Hydro-Man), and has 2 kids. Meanwhile, a man named Cletus Kassidy suddenly starts commiting a lot of crimes, and is put in the same jail cell as Eddie Brock (put there after S-M3 or whatever, whenever he's defeated and the symbiote leaves him). Little to Brock's knowledge, the Venom suit has returned to him and he breaks out of prison, but not before Kassidy grabs a piece of the Venom suit. Kassidy and the suit bond together, to form the monstrous villain Carnage. While Venom and Carnage wreck the city, Peter Parker, along with his NEW suit (the suit Tony Stark designed for him) engages in battle with Hydro-Man, who almost kills Mary Jane. Now that New York and the world need him so much, Spider-Man must ultimately battle thoughts inside his mind and the creatures outside......


Now, that is a good movie. (I think...smiley face) No need for a Begins, Raimi has done a fine job, and will continue to do great as the helmer of the franchise, unless 3 is his last one.

Just go the Bryan Singer/Superman way, do a "Returns" story.

[turbotwotone]

I don't know where this should go. With the unsettling news of SM3, I hope one day we'll get the Batman treatment and get a more faithful version of our beloved Spidey.

Your crazy!! Unsettling news of SM3? The spiderman films are possibly the best superhero films made to date! We should be so lucky that Sam Raimi is still making SM movies. I challenge you to find a better director that cares more about the individual characters vs the action. Yes Batman Begins was amazing and possibly the best of the batman films...but there is nothing wrong with the SM films IMO. If we had more directors like Chris Nolan and Sam Raimi, we wouldn't have dissasters like X3, Fantastic Four, and Elektra. If anything...they're going to need to restart the Spiderman franchise after Raimi leaves and the next idiot who comes on board, screws it up.

[turbotwotone]

Guys, calm down. There will probably never be a "re-boot" of the Spider-Man franchise, but once S-M6 is long over, about 15 to 20 years after that, we'll get......"Spider-Man Returns". It shall be the bestest spiderman movie ever! Actually, I think it would be cool to make a returns movie about spiderman. Like, have SM6 end with Peter leaving New York to "find himself" or something like that....15 years later..."Spider-Man Returns"...Sypnosis: Following an absence of 3 years (or however many), Peter Parker returns to good ol' New York City, only to find that Mary Jane (if she's still alive by then) Watson has moved on, married Morris Bench (who will become Hydro-Man), and has 2 kids. Meanwhile, a man named Cletus Kassidy suddenly starts commiting a lot of crimes, and is put in the same jail cell as Eddie Brock (put there after S-M3 or whatever, whenever he's defeated and the symbiote leaves him). Little to Brock's knowledge, the Venom suit has returned to him and he breaks out of prison, but not before Kassidy grabs a piece of the Venom suit. Kassidy and the suit bond together, to form the monstrous villain Carnage. While Venom and Carnage wreck the city, Peter Parker, along with his NEW suit (the suit Tony Stark designed for him) engages in battle with Hydro-Man, who almost kills Mary Jane. Now that New York and the world need him so much, Spider-Man must ultimately battle thoughts inside his mind and the creatures outside......


Now, that is a good movie. (I think...smiley face) No need for a Begins, Raimi has done a fine job, and will continue to do great as the helmer of the franchise, unless 3 is his last one.

Just go the Bryan Singer/Superman way, do a "Returns" story.

Well said!!!! I think Superman is gonna be amazing.

[Abaddon]

No, but the most important stuff was there. Peter got bit by an enhanced spider (instead of the 1960s concern withradiation, we get the 2000s concern genetic engineering type stuff), Peter gets cocky, decides to make money off his powers, goes to wrestle (changing the wrestler from 1960s name Crusher Hogan, which to a mainstream audience would be too similar to Hulk Hogan, to more modern Bonesaw McGraw), and refuses to stop a burglar who then goes to kill Uncle Ben.

Cosmetically, it's different. Intrinsically, everything that was important about Amazing Fantasy # 15 was right there in the movie.

Not really.:o


Otherwise I agree.

[iceberg325]

I 100% doubt it, but imagine carnage in spidey 3. wow!!!!!!!! One could only wish.

[Image]

I 100% doubt it, but imagine carnage in spidey 3. wow!!!!!!!! One could only wish.

I hope not. If it does, the story better be good, but I hope not. DOn't just throw characters out there and destroy them like X3...

[iceberg325]

I hope not. If it does, the story better be good, but I hope not. DOn't just throw characters out there and destroy them like X3...

I was just thinking about it as far as how good a CGI Carnage would look.

Why does everyone bash X3 for destroying characters. The characters were destroyed since X1. sorry for going off topic.

[maxmccumber]

Why should there be another origin film? Even though the first Spider-Man apparently wasn't as faithful to the comics as it could have been, we've already been shown how it all started. None of the previous Bat flicks ever focused strictly on the story of how Bruce Wayne became Batman, so when the franchise was reborn, that's what they decided to do.

[Image]

I was just thinking about it as far as how good a CGI Carnage would look.

Why does everyone bash X3 for destroying characters. The characters were destroyed since X1. sorry for going off topic.

They could pull Carnage off to look good if they did him I'm sure and X3 destroyed it much worse even when X1 started it by focusing on one character or changing characters, but X1 was acceptable and not that much of being destroyed. Anyway an origin film for Spidey is not necessary.

[Matt Murdock]

agreed

[The Kid]

oh my stars and garters

no macy gray next time.

[Matt Murdock]

hahahaha she was only in the first one for a couple of seconds!

[Tangled Web]

I 100% doubt it, but imagine carnage in spidey 3. wow!!!!!!!! One could only wish.
Right here. Here is the kind of thinking that destroys films. Look:
SM1 Norman is killed Harry sees that Spider-Man killed him
SM2 Harry hates Spider-Man, finds out Spidey is Peter and Norman was the Goblin.
SM3: Carnage!!!! Yeah! cool cgi! omgs!!

No. That's horrible. Since 2002 leading up to this movie has been the Goblin saga. Brother vs. Brother. Not Carnage, not Venom. No.

This is the kind of thinking that ruined the Batman franchise.
"Venom and Carnage will sell toys!"
"Bane, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Neon gang, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, alt costume Ivy, alt costume freeze, Robin cycle, alt costume Batman."

Right there. This kind of greed kills franchises.

[turbotwotone]

Right here. Here is the kind of thinking that destroys films. Look:
SM1 Norman is killed Harry sees that Spider-Man killed him
SM2 Harry hates Spider-Man, finds out Spidey is Peter and Norman was the Goblin.
SM3: Carnage!!!! Yeah! cool cgi! omgs!!

No. That's horrible. Since 2002 leading up to this movie has been the Goblin saga. Brother vs. Brother. Not Carnage, not Venom. No.

This is the kind of thinking that ruined the Batman franchise.
"Venom and Carnage will sell toys!"
"Bane, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Neon gang, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, alt costume Ivy, alt costume freeze, Robin cycle, alt costume Batman."

Right there. This kind of greed kills franchises.

Just hold on now. Carnage? Venom? I think we re getting ahead of ourselves. 1st off...Carnage will not be in SM3, nor SM4, nor probually any other film before six. This is of course my opinion, but come on...its just not likely. I don't think Venom (as a main role) will be in SM3, and if so...it won't be longer than a brief cameo at the end of the movie as to set up a 4th movie. The reason I know this is because Thomas Hayden Church has been cast as the main villan, and they have already confirmed that he will be playing the role of Sandman. If that is the case, then there will be no other main villan...asuming that Raimi follows his same track record as before, with only having one central character. If there are more I see it being a very risky task as far as the story and plot are concerned. The reason I don't see Venom as a main villan in SM3, is because of the depth and history of his character. Venom should get his own movie altogether because to squeeze him into the plot of SM3 seems like a cheap move, when he deserves a fuul time role in SM4. And wether or not Venom is either in SM3, or SM4...he is too simalar of a character to Carnage...which is why I don't ever see Carnage getting his own villan role. At least not any time soon. I know that many fanboys are holding their breath, but I am only saying this as a prediction as to how I can likely see Columbia acting on these matters. Never in a million years will (Raimi's) Spiderman films fall victim to the same fate as Batman & Robin, And I think that Sam Raimi always gives great detail to the narrative of the characters' story as well as their abilities...so I think we can all rest a little easier, with that in mind. Also the goblin saga isn't going away I don't think!!
I think that SM3 is going to be a great film, but we will just have to wait until next summer to know for sure. And besides...its not the spider-man writers that need worrying about, its the crackshots that wrote/ruined X3 we will have to watch out for.

[FlurryGuy]

If the improvement of a future spider-man movie would be the same as the difference between the movie from the 60's and the current ones, I wouldn't mind seeing that in a couple of years.

[TheFlyinRussian]

I really don't understand someone liking the comics but not liking SM1 and SM2.There are people out there who will never be pleased and those people are called SM fans.Sure the franchise will eventually have a re-boot,but it won't be for about another forty years I'm guessing,and that's only if comics are still popular then.Oh and :up: to the Phillies fans.

[turbotwotone]

If the improvement of a future spider-man movie would be the same as the difference between the movie from the 60's and the current ones, I wouldn't mind seeing that in a couple of years.

Heres what I gater from your post...

x=the improvement
a=60's spiderman film
b=the recent films

and heres the equation i arive at...

a-b=WTF

Seriously...what are you getting at. The spiderman film from the 60's was terrible, and the current films are great. So by averaging them together you bring down the lasting appeal of the current films. IMO SM 1 & 2 are some of the best superhero movies ever released, and that stayed rather true to its source material...yes they are rather over the top, but I think thats to be expected in this day and age. In any case I don't see any reason to discount any of the new SM films as being bad. If hardcore fanboys think they are too far off base to enjoy them, then they don't have to watch them...and I see no reason to restart the current SM franchise.

[The Kid]

hahahaha she was only in the first one for a couple of seconds!

and it was pure torture. lol:down

I don't really give a damn about the comics really... I just know spidey from my marvel cards and tv. the fundamentals are all that's important to me and I see sm1 as a poor overly cheesy start for spidey that really is a lot of fun but fails to function as a the good spidy story to me though it has a cool fight with goblin at the end. I think it's... deep breath... overrated... (wait, hear what I have to say first...) and could have been more than it was based on the cool trailers and such.

What's wrong with wanting webshooters, no macy gray, less cheese, more quips, gwen being in the first film instead of the last, better romance or less, what else, less burning building scenes, spidey sense that works all the time, opening credits that don't last forever, and better editing, better writing, narrating, better everything? What's wrong with wanting spider-man begins? I love spidey too much to see his story not reach its greatest potential..., that's all. Is it wrong to want macy gray out of spiderman movies? I want to think not...

In spidey begins, he'll be shown making the costume and webshooters the same way batman was building his suit and gadgets. Those details I care about more in spiderman than in batman. Nolan could have handled it burton's way and basically explained it as "he's rich, that's why he has all this stuff." and I'd have been ok with that but spidey's an average kid with a pizza delivery job and his job at the bugle, so I'm not seeing how he could afford anything looking like that suit. who wouldn't want to see him make the iconic costume. All that drawing/sketching/coloring of it, even a prototype is worn and later it just magically appears without an explanation? I'm curious how he made it is all... what's wrong with that...

the story with peter waking up one day being ripped and not using that genius mind to figure out why at all or if he'll be dying in moments? what was that?, along with the bad cgi, sometimes methinks it needed some work done... to be better, just better. The first film would actually be ok to me if it wasn't a spidey movie, there are some good performances in it, the themes are good too, I just hope that sony thinks it's not unthinkable to do a better spidey movie with the huge success of these versions showing them there's no real need right now... maybe a gazillion years from now they will. I can wait.

[turbotwotone]

and it was pure torture. lol:down

I don't really give a damn about the comics really... I just know spidey from my marvel cards and tv. the fundamentals are all that's important to me and I see sm1 as a poor overly cheesy start for spidey that really is a lot of fun but fails to function as a the good spidy story to me though it has a cool fight with goblin at the end. I think it's... deep breath... overrated... (wait, hear what I have to say first...) and could have been more than it was based on the cool trailers and such.

What's wrong with wanting webshooters, no macy gray, less cheese, more quips, gwen being in the first film instead of the last, better romance or less, what else, less burning building scenes, spidey sense that works all the time, opening credits that don't last forever, and better editing, better writing, narrating, better everything? What's wrong with wanting spider-man begins? I love spidey too much to see his story not reach its greatest potential..., that's all. Is it wrong to want macy gray out of spiderman movies? I want to think not...

In spidey begins, he'll be shown making the costume and webshooters the same way batman was building his suit and gadgets. Those details I care about more in spiderman than in batman. Nolan could have handled it burton's way and basically explained it as "he's rich, that's why he has all this stuff." and I'd have been ok with that but spidey's an average kid with a pizza delivery job and his job at the bugle, so I'm not seeing how he could afford anything looking like that suit. who wouldn't want to see him make the iconic costume. All that drawing/sketching/coloring of it, even a prototype is worn and later it just magically appears without an explanation? I'm curious how he made it is all... what's wrong with that...

the story with peter waking up one day being ripped and not using that genius mind to figure out why at all or if he'll be dying in moments? what was that?, along with the bad cgi, sometimes methinks it needed some work done... to be better, just better. The first film would actually be ok to me if it wasn't a spidey movie, there are some good performances in it, the themes are good too, I just hope that sony thinks it's not unthinkable to do a better spidey movie with the huge success of these versions showing them there's no real need right now... maybe a gazillion years from now they will. I can wait.


I see what you're saying, but I can't see where you think that the SM films are poorly executed. Yes there were some questionable CG work, the whole making the suit buisiness, and believe me...nobodys disagreeing with not having macy gray in it (she's so anoying)...but all that aside you are missing whats most important...Sam Raimi's portrayal of SM as a person, comes a-lot further than most superhero/action films. Yes these movies all portray superheros w/ superhuman abilities, and countless action sequences, but few happen to capture the characters so boldly, which is why I think that his movies have been a real hit. I mean watch SM2 again...like the 1st 20 min is all drama and character building...thats really important. Try going and watching X3, and try to find that level of characterization...most superhero movies overlook that. I think that Batman Begins was so well recieved, not only because it was an amazing re-telling of Batman, but because the Batman films had reached rock-bottom and were in desperate need of a restart. Until the SM movies reach that point, I don't see them resatarting it any time soon. I know Raimi's SM films are not perfect, but you have to at least admit that they are a lot better made than most other superhero films. Its just that you, like me and everyone else are dedicated SM fans, and we all have expectations of what we think should go. To that I say lets put aside our minor hickups we may have w/ current SM films, and see what the future of SM films holds for us...and if that future of SM films doesen't bode well...then we can talk of a restart. On a personal note I am very currious to see if SM3 will be Raimi's last. If it will I think that the SM franchise will be in trouble, and not because I don't think that any other directors could measure up to his films, but because all of his films were built on a steady vision and an ongoing storyline. If that story line is not continued beyond SM3, then I think that the very foundation that the 1st 3 films were built on , wouldn't support future films. Again I use X3 as an example...look at what happened with the X-men franchise.
Anyway, your views are still very valid and I'm not trying to bash your opinion...I'm only trying to present another side to the argument. In any case I hope SM3 turns out great.

[The Kid]

true. the character is #1 in importance, and I actually think they missed what's most distinguishable in the comics,cartoon, etc. about our hero, [this be no minor hikup], because for whatever reason, spidey/parker seems to not be himself, and have hardly a funny-bone in him in these films. His humor to me falls flat coming from tobey for some reason/ he's just not that funny an actor I guess or maybe it's the muppetty voice. Most of the humor comes from making parker look goofy. screech from saved by the bell would laugh at him. (I see Zack as actually more like spiderman than spidey in the movie.)

Who's spiderman?

him-> http://www.classickidstv.co.uk/savedbythebell/zack.jpgOr him-->http://hometown.aol.com/rt92283/screech.jpg
if the goof is who he is in the comics, please tell me... i know him differently from other incarnations but maybe they're what's wrong. :( I can't just put spidey's spideryness aside; can't ignore faults; and won't give it a handicap because it's better than captain america or batman and robin or something else.. My brain won't let me. argh... X3 has drama and character building, just not very good drama or character building. i thought it was mostly corny and cartoonish. while better and deeper, sm1 has its corn too, i recall when dunst softens her voice and speaks slowly in that unnatural way to say her romanace lines, barf. spidey's the star of the show and to not do him justice he deserves, makes me not very willing to accept it as THE spider-man film like superman so far is THE superman film. No matter how many otis' that movie had or silly crap and dramatic poems, they got superman, perfect, straight on the target with reeve. to me the way spidey's been brought to life is as if supes was given a jetpack in his movie instead of his flying powers... the performances, everythign else the same, except he's using a jetpack. I like the movie, it's cool, maybe otis was a pain in the ass but I came away feeling satsified with it overall, but it's still never going to be THE supes to me because he's basically supposed to fly. I never read the comics, all I know is supey flies on his own power.

It's weird. JJJ's perfect, making sharp witted remarks rapidly every chance he gets just like his true self, while spidey's no where near as funny with his retorts, nothing like christmas meat.... what happened?

the remake, batman begins, is an attempt to set right again what went very wrong, yep. Not the most faithful of films as batman was, it still killed at the box office, but the sequels were too silly and the stories mocked the character instead of celebrated him...(i actually feel that's how spidey's been treated since the first, too cheesy like the batman's sequels but i don't really care that much about it) the last was just a bad superfriends episode so people stayed away since they had batman/returns/forever on vhs. they went back to formula to steer their big franchise back into the public's good graces again. It succeeded. Personally i'm not making money off of spidey's success, so what the studio desperately needs isn't really my concern... in fact i'm losing money when i go to see spider-man and get an earful of macy gray instead.

About spidey being better than most bad superhero films, true it's no catwoman. should they aim for that though? why not aim for the best. We have the technology... i've argued the same thing for the HUlk (it's no catwoman) and my friends still don't care. they want the 'true' hulk on screen, exactly as he is in the comics no matter how good the film is. I guess I liked it because I'm not sucha dramatically big hulk fan that my knowledge of the comic got in the way of seeing what's good about the movie or accepting it as the hulk I know..., but I can sympathise regarding spidey. It's a good movie, but a good spider-man movie? almost... so close I can smell it but all the stuff that doesn't make much sense in it's own world and the intended cheesy bad quality raimi gave it all brings it down. Make his spidersense work all the time, not just when it's convenient. Mj tripping, he reacts, goblin spray him with happy gas, he's out. Its intimate scenes are great then the cartoony, 80s cartoony, style to the rest is jarring. like a post or two ago i said, it's got some very good performances in it, and the story's themes are all interesting. i can't fault any of that stuff except for tobey and kirsten's often dry delivery in their scenes. there are lots of humorous situations i liked, good job raimi, but all that doesn't really make it the best spider-man to me because the star, spider-man fell short unfortunately, with cgi and character. Aim a little higher... aim for the moon... i really shouldn't walk away thinking the cartoon is relatively stll better than the films... it's a comicbookmovie, the ending shots aside, the first falls short in amazing visuals department. as a comicbook, that's probably a very important thing in it really, right next to characters. My preferrence would be to have the best of that in spider-man begins along with the more confident and humorous, characterization of spidey if possible... and gwen in the first film. She's in this next one but she most likely won't be THE gwen, just someone else with the same name... she's a blindingly beautiful dame so i won't mind it at all, but it's a strange decision to add her now when you're already past her story and could intro someone like black cat instead or gasp, give betty brant (my fav female character from the films) a bigger role....

whew, that took a while... so to sum it up. i do enjoy them, and think they're up there in quality, not down in the gutter yet (although the more cartoonish cheesyness like ock throwing the car and the women screaming is dragging it there), but am not too willing to be unquestioningly accepting of them as my definitive spidey movies yet since i know its story's really could have been better, not just because i want webshooters, but just in itself could have easily taken it up a notch, and maybe be more like begins next time.

[matthooper]

Cool picture here:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23657

By the way...this is the worst topic ever!

[fabman]

What's so wrong with Sam Raimi's SPIDER-MAN movies? I don't want a restart, Raimi's movies are faithful to what the whole SPIDER-MAN concept is! The new story arcs of "THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN" are unfaithful, not the movies!

[TheFlyinRussian]

Please stop whining about Macy Gray. I don't like her music either but for christ's sake she was in it for 8 seconds! The natural webbing is better because it blends in with all the other powers he received. It's actually harder to explain how an 18 year old kid just invents a webbing fluid. No current directors could have done a better job than Raimi and like I said before I don't see a reboot for another 40 years.

[turbotwotone]

true. the character is #1 in importance, and I actually think they missed what's most distinguishable in the comics,cartoon, etc. about our hero, [this be no minor hikup], because for whatever reason, spidey/parker seems to not be himself, and have hardly a funny-bone in him in these films. His humor to me falls flat coming from tobey for some reason/ he's just not that funny an actor I guess or maybe it's the muppetty voice. Most of the humor comes from making parker look goofy. screech from saved by the bell would laugh at him. (I see Zack as actually more like spiderman than spidey in the movie.)

Who's spiderman?

him-> http://www.classickidstv.co.uk/savedbythebell/zack.jpgOr him-->http://hometown.aol.com/rt92283/screech.jpg
if the goof is who he is in the comics, please tell me... i know him differently from other incarnations but maybe they're what's wrong. :( I can't just put spidey's spideryness aside; can't ignore faults; and won't give it a handicap because it's better than captain america or batman and robin or something else.. My brain won't let me. argh... X3 has drama and character building, just not very good drama or character building. i thought it was mostly corny and cartoonish. while better and deeper, sm1 has its corn too, i recall when dunst softens her voice and speaks slowly in that unnatural way to say her romanace lines, barf. spidey's the star of the show and to not do him justice he deserves, makes me not very willing to accept it as THE spider-man film like superman so far is THE superman film. No matter how many otis' that movie had or silly crap and dramatic poems, they got superman, perfect, straight on the target with reeve. to me the way spidey's been brought to life is as if supes was given a jetpack in his movie instead of his flying powers... the performances, everythign else the same, except he's using a jetpack. I like the movie, it's cool, maybe otis was a pain in the ass but I came away feeling satsified with it overall, but it's still never going to be THE supes to me because he's basically supposed to fly. I never read the comics, all I know is supey flies on his own power.

It's weird. JJJ's perfect, making sharp witted remarks rapidly every chance he gets just like his true self, while spidey's no where near as funny with his retorts, nothing like christmas meat.... what happened?

the remake, batman begins, is an attempt to set right again what went very wrong, yep. Not the most faithful of films as batman was, it still killed at the box office, but the sequels were too silly and the stories mocked the character instead of celebrated him...(i actually feel that's how spidey's been treated since the first, too cheesy like the batman's sequels but i don't really care that much about it) the last was just a bad superfriends episode so people stayed away since they had batman/returns/forever on vhs. they went back to formula to steer their big franchise back into the public's good graces again. It succeeded. Personally i'm not making money off of spidey's success, so what the studio desperately needs isn't really my concern... in fact i'm losing money when i go to see spider-man and get an earful of macy gray instead.

About spidey being better than most bad superhero films, true it's no catwoman. should they aim for that though? why not aim for the best. We have the technology... i've argued the same thing for the HUlk (it's no catwoman) and my friends still don't care. they want the 'true' hulk on screen, exactly as he is in the comics no matter how good the film is. I guess I liked it because I'm not sucha dramatically big hulk fan that my knowledge of the comic got in the way of seeing what's good about the movie or accepting it as the hulk I know..., but I can sympathise regarding spidey. It's a good movie, but a good spider-man movie? almost... so close I can smell it but all the stuff that doesn't make much sense in it's own world and the intended cheesy bad quality raimi gave it all brings it down. Make his spidersense work all the time, not just when it's convenient. Mj tripping, he reacts, goblin spray him with happy gas, he's out. Its intimate scenes are great then the cartoony, 80s cartoony, style to the rest is jarring. like a post or two ago i said, it's got some very good performances in it, and the story's themes are all interesting. i can't fault any of that stuff except for tobey and kirsten's often dry delivery in their scenes. there are lots of humorous situations i liked, good job raimi, but all that doesn't really make it the best spider-man to me because the star, spider-man fell short unfortunately, with cgi and character. Aim a little higher... aim for the moon... i really shouldn't walk away thinking the cartoon is relatively stll better than the films... it's a comicbookmovie, the ending shots aside, the first falls short in amazing visuals department. as a comicbook, that's probably a very important thing in it really, right next to characters. My preferrence would be to have the best of that in spider-man begins along with the more confident and humorous, characterization of spidey if possible... and gwen in the first film. She's in this next one but she most likely won't be THE gwen, just someone else with the same name... she's a blindingly beautiful dame so i won't mind it at all, but it's a strange decision to add her now when you're already past her story and could intro someone like black cat instead or gasp, give betty brant (my fav female character from the films) a bigger role....

whew, that took a while... so to sum it up. i do enjoy them, and think they're up there in quality, not down in the gutter yet (although the more cartoonish cheesyness like ock throwing the car and the women screaming is dragging it there), but am not too willing to be unquestioningly accepting of them as my definitive spidey movies yet since i know its story's really could have been better, not just because i want webshooters, but just in itself could have easily taken it up a notch, and maybe be more like begins next time.

Okay…come on seriously…you keep bringing up macy gray…she was in the 1st film for like 7 sec…it was a huge mistake…she will never return…lets just leave it at that. And come on…I liked Dunst’s sexy voice (laughs). I may be the only one, but I like her take on MJ for the most part. True her dramatic scenes are often forced and over-acted…but in a strange way it just fits to me. And I see what you mean about the humor and one-liners being absent from the SM movies, and I’ll have to agree. The sappy humor was always a part of spidey’s character both in the comics and the tv shows…and though they are sparsely in the movies, they are few and far between…and every time they come up they are not very funny. I don’t honestly know if that was due to the treatment of the SM character in the script or Tobey’s acting. But I have to say…I don’t know how spidey could be done any better! There has been one thing I’ve noticed in the 1st 2 SM films and that’s how spidey doesn’t really maneuver quite like he does in the comics and cartoons. Aside from when he is swinging from his webs through the city (which I believe is mostly CG) in the films, he never has quite the agility as we have come to know from him. About the only good example that he does is in SM2 when he is fighting Ock on the subway…and he jumps inside the train, through the window and grabs on to the pole horizontally in a crouching position. I think it was cool that they tried pushing the CG character to react as it did in the comics…but again, if you are going for realism…it really looked pretty fake. If I’m not mistaken…I think that is also one of the things you are trying to get at…as far as spidey being done better. And I think that this viewpoint walks a thin line, because there are many sides to this subject. If you are going for the truest spidey performance, than Yes-the cartoons will always be better because spidey was originally created in a comic book and will always play out better in a comic book and/or cartoon setting. There are things that play out better in the cartoons, that just don’t transpose very well to a live action film. As I stated in previous posts…I think we all witnessed the perfect example of this 1st hand, when we saw Batman & Robin. Schumacher always said he wanted to make a more comic-book version of batman…and to his defense, some things worked well based on that sense…but obviously there were countless problems as well. Unfortunately, his vision just didn’t suit the batman characters in the way they needed to be…ie: tim burton’s much grittier and darker take on the dark night, which I think was handled well in Batman Begins. Which brings us to spidey being portrayed the way he was. And I believe that a compromise has to be made at some point to make this unbelievable comic book hero-believable. I think Raimi has done a great job of taking an over the top superhero and placed him in the real world. Yes there needs to be realism to his movements, but at the same time there will be unbelievable action…because that’s part of the comic book world. So when Dok-Ock picks a car up over his head and throws it, it might seem fake…but like Hulk, it exists that way because it needs to. And the Cheesy woman screaming is also likely a tribute to Raimi’s earlier evil dead movies.

Anyway…I’m glad both of us are able to enjoy the SM films for what they are. Though I don’t share many of your opinions, it doesn’t mean they are any less pertinent. As Sm fans it will always be hard to please every fan on all ends of the spectrum. Like you, I try to enjoy the SM films for what they are and forget all the small misses over all the things they do well. I’ll admit when I heard Sam Raimi was directing the 1st SM film, I was extremely concerned. But after seeing 2 films and his commitment to the spidey world…I am in no way disappointed. I still think though that nobody else could do as convincing a job of peter parker than Maguire does. During the scene where he tries to tell aunt may that his uncle’s death was his fault…I just thought to myself…no one else could have nailed that like he did. And I also think that Sam Raimi’s Spiderman films will never be topped or equaled up too, because I don’t believe any other directors would handle the story and characters with as much care. If it is the characters you are concerned with, then I would pray my lucky stars that you get another director with as much dedication after Raimi leaves. CG work aside…I really do think that the current SM films are being made about as well as the can be made. Pushing the spidey character in the films too far to resemble the spidey from the comics wouldn’t bode well in film, I think. Again I completely understand you not making them your definitive SM movies…I just hope you are not left to be waiting forever.

["Iron Man"]

If someone is going to reboot the Spider-Man franchise, atleast call it "The Amazing Spider-Man" this time. Gosh!

["Iron Man"]

I thought of an idea for a good Spidey 4-6...

The Amazing Spider-Man (Spider-Man 4) Spidey faces off with Hydro-Man, Kraven the Hunter, and The Lizard (main villain) in this exciting sequel! (would contain origin flashbacks, but not a "reboot") Gwen Stacy is the love interest

The Amazing Spider-Man Returns (Spider-Man 5) Spidey faces the ever-changing Chameleon, The Rhino, Scorpion, and the deadly Hobgoblin (either Ned Leeds or Roderick Kingsley) in this fascinating new chapter in the Spider-Man saga! Mary Jane Watson returns (depending on if she leaves or not at the end of SM3) but Gwen is still Pete's girlfriend.

The Amazing Spider-Man's Last Stand (Spider-Man 6, only tentative title)
Spidey faces a threat greater than anything he's faced before, the Sinister Six! As if they weren't enough, the symbiote has returned, and Cletus Kasady is the new host....

I realize that 7 villains is A LOT(!!!) but I think the above ideas listed would make for a very interesting and exciting trilogy in the Spider-Man saga! What do you think? (oh, I would be directing these movies)

I just really love Sam Raimi's films and I was originally going to write "The Amazing Spider-Man" and make it a reboot of the franchise, but Sam's movies are friggin teriffic!! So, would you watch my movies above?

[turbotwotone]

I thought of an idea for a good Spidey 4-6...

The Amazing Spider-Man (Spider-Man 4) Spidey faces off with Hydro-Man, Kraven the Hunter, and The Lizard (main villain) in this exciting sequel! (would contain origin flashbacks, but not a "reboot") Gwen Stacy is the love interest

The Amazing Spider-Man Returns (Spider-Man 5) Spidey faces the ever-changing Chameleon, The Rhino, Scorpion, and the deadly Hobgoblin (either Ned Leeds or Roderick Kingsley) in this fascinating new chapter in the Spider-Man saga! Mary Jane Watson returns (depending on if she leaves or not at the end of SM3) but Gwen is still Pete's girlfriend.

The Amazing Spider-Man's Last Stand (Spider-Man 6, only tentative title)
Spidey faces a threat greater than anything he's faced before, the Sinister Six! As if they weren't enough, the symbiote has returned, and Cletus Kasady is the new host....

I realize that 7 villains is A LOT(!!!) but I think the above ideas listed would make for a very interesting and exciting trilogy in the Spider-Man saga! What do you think? (oh, I would be directing these movies)

I just really love Sam Raimi's films and I was originally going to write "The Amazing Spider-Man" and make it a reboot of the franchise, but Sam's movies are friggin teriffic!! So, would you watch my movies above?



What do you mean you were going to write the "amazing spiderman" movies? Are you currently a director/writer or are you just dreaming aloud?
Anyway...I am still very excited with the future of the SM films beyond SM3. Even if SM3 has four villans that has been rumored...there is still lots of untapped material and many fresh villans to be explored in later installments. I think you have some solid concepts, and even though you admitted too many villans can be bad...it sill has to be said that having more villans only works if the story/character advancement permits it. It needs to support the story at hand and onlt then can you factor in what villans work...to say the least you don't want to simply include x amount of villans just because it would look cool. I think thats one thing Raimi has done a fine job of in his installments and I commend him for that. I also like the idea of beinging gwen stacy into the fold...though I hear she is going to start appearing in SM3. While I don't completely think it was wrong to start off with MJ instead, I am glad to see that they aren't ignoring the whole gwen stacy aspect...it will certainly add much drama to peter and MJ's relationship. As far as villans go it really doesn't matter exactly what villans are in the next installments..as long as there is a good solid story arc that supports that villan, and also as long as we get 1 to 2 new villans per installment. Unlike the position of the villans in the batman films...spiderman still has a slew of villans to face off against, where as with the batman films all of the central villans have really been used and it is to the point where you have to start remaking the villans that have already appeared in a film before. So as far as that aspect goes, I am very excited for SM. There have been many great mentions already: hydro-man, kraven, lizard, hobgoblin, rhino, vulture, carnage, scorpion, kat, shocker, electro, mysterio...and the list goes on.

If they don't get maguire, dunst and everyone else back for a 4th, then I agree that series needs to change it up. However, I don't completely want them to go with the whole "ultimate spiderman" route, where they re-cast everyone, and spidey is only like 14-15 yrs old...and they act like the events of the 1st 3 films never happened! If they do that I'll be pretty upset. I am grateful we will have gotten 3 steady films with the same cast and director. I won't be upset to see a new cast, but hopefully it will be a continuation of the 1st 3 films...so that all future sequels actually seem like sequels, creating a sense of continuity. And hopefully the new cast will stick around for 2-3 films. To reboot something that wasn't bad to begin with seems uneccesary to me. If they continue the story...I think it would create many great opportunities that you wouldn't get otherwise. Such as: flashbacks from previous movies and/or creating side stories that were carried over from previous films...and discussing past villans that he had faced, and also possibly bringing back cameos of past villans (we never truly got that doc-ock was really dead)

I think the future for SM again looks very promising. As more time goes by, technology and visual effects just keep getting better and better...so just imagining how future villans could be brought to life and what there powers would look like is also pretty cool. And I can't wait to see what is in store for SM3 come may 2007!!!

["Iron Man"]

Well, I'm just dreaming aloud. But what I meant was that I was going to write MY VERSION of Spider-Man in a story called "The Amazing Spider-Man". I was originally going to make it a reboot, but I appreciate the Raimi films too much to do that, so I made it a sequel, basically, it's my version of Spidey Part 4. And if Raimi and crew don't stick around for any more after SM3 (which will in one word: kickass!) I would LOVE to direct Spidey 4-6, but once again, I'm dreaming aloud.

Actually, I already have my superhero franchise in progress.....Space Ghost 1, 2, and 3. (I made it so there can be no more after 3, so no one can continue work on SG...he's mine! hahahaha)

[Creative Genius]

I'm creative genius and I'm a simple stick to the source material writer and I had my version of Spider-man. I would of made the movies surround the universe of Spider-man and his characters (sorta like Star Wars) Let me explain the 6 movies that I had plained out.

Spider-man 1:Nerd Parker in high school gets powers: Harry,Flash, Liz, Mary Jane Gwen, and Captain Stacy are friends how they were in comics, it's about Peter's changing into a conifdent person. Peter and Flash get in squabbles, Peter seems he is more confident. Peter fights crush hogan, paid and popular and does different acts across city in amatuer costume. And he does the infamous money job with the burgular and the and he comes home and Uncle Ben is shot, Now in the Movie Uncle Ben is very close to peter and likable old man. Spidey goes after him with great special effects and aerial shots. Does what he does in the comics and the burgular falls , they shot at spidey, and he swings off, and cries fiqures out it's his fault great power comes great responsibility. He makes the spidey suit. He catches a many criminals and he does it a cool way. Showing that he taking his responsibility. And it's not rushed it done pacefully. He graduates from High school with the gang and Norman tells Harry and Peter that he paid for the loft to stay in. Spidey does more heroic acts and he sees a man take pictures of him. Spidey thinks and asks the guy how much do you get for that picture. And the man scared tells him a $1000. Spidey thinks and next you see his automatic camera takes pictures of him doing things and the next day he is in the Daily bugle. Trying to sell them, gets hired with jjj hiijinks. Meets Betty Bryant likes her. Goes home and he is watching the Kraven the Hunter show while Kraven single handlly takes done animals with great strength and power and hunt's his pray. Kraven is very popular like the Crocodille Hunter. Peter laughs while watching taking him as a joke. He switches to news is talking about the international terrorists and assassin for hire the Chameleon(First villian spidey faced in comics) Equipped with Disquiseable Hologram technology and prostectic skin he can be anyone he wishes. He's a marks man and is armed and dangerous and in town. Osborn and Oscorp have problems and the men are trying to get rid of osborn and his ambitious test, performance enchancer that make you smarter, faster stronger, but side affects of memory loss, and insanity and death. Osborn is ruthless and stubborn and unapproachable. Oscorp has carnival and peter there taking pictures and Harry walks up and they talk. Cut to the chase Chameleon is there to assainate Osborn courtesy of his executives and is hologram disquise as an big executive, but messes up and says the wrong thing and he pulls out the gun and and fires and runs out and transforms and runs and moves like a ninja. throws a smoke bombs and grenades and explosions and pete sees it changes and sees Chamelon and goes after him Chamelon shoots with pinpoint accuracy and miss because of spidey sense and agility. Harry is distraught and Norman is fiquring out who did it. And the other executies look dissappointed. Spidey goes back and Chamelon is gone and spidey goes back to help others. But Chamelon turn into a woman across the street and runs around the corner. JJJ is mad pete didn't get any pictures and that Chameleon is the story and Oscorp. Kraven is in town in new york for a show and they are interview him about his show, And a someone ask him a tough question about that the terrorist the Chamelon is is brother, He pauses and says that is appalling rumor and if he saw Chamelon he will hunt him down and break him in two. Spider-man fight Chamelon again and caughts him and it is all over the news and soidey is confident. He dates Betty Bryant, He dates Mary Jane, and others on different dates. But gets closer to Gwen. Norman is distrautght and know if jis experiment does't work he is finished and the contract is too. He does the experient it blows up in his face like comics book. Osborn become green goblin, something that gave him fear when he was a small boy, that his father told stories about. There is a big meeting with executies about Osborn's job and Goblin come is a elobarent blows up and kills everyone in the meeting. The next day he forgets what he did like he was blessed not to be there, and he is sorry and it is a big loss. He regin full control of Oscorp. In the movie he goes in and out of green goblin to destroy rival comapnies and anything in his way and goes to get jjj because of bad press, Spidey interferes ggreat aerial fights. They fight off and on and exchange great lines. He fight spidey classic battles unmaskes spidey and final battle and green goblin gets beat an forgets and Spidey feels sorry for him and harry because that is they are friends. So he rescue Norman and Spidey saved him from Goblin. Norman thanks Spidey and peter, and Peter is nervous because Norman knows his identity. But forgot. There are in the hospital. Cut to Chamelon in jail and gets bailed out with a great bound and goes to a limosuine and gets in it and they voice in the car says you got your self in alot of trouble this time I'll clean it up because you are family. Chamelon- what about Spider-man the camera pans up to Kraven the Hunter with a determined look, He's mine. The Limosuine drives off spidey music plays

End
Spider-man 2: Doc Ock, Chameleon,Kraven,
Synopsis: Doc ock is created as Kraven hunts the spider with the help of Chameleon, Peter gets closer to Gwen Stacy. Spidey has clasic battle Kraven, Chameleon drops the ball, gets disowned, Spidey fight s new nemesis Doc ock, Spidey gets closer to Captain stacy, Captain dies from accident in battle fills bad. Vows to protect Gwen. Beats Doc ock classic batle scenes goes to super criminal jail. At the end of Spidey 2 Norman regains memory of everything and becoms green goblin movie ends on cliffhanger.

Spider-man 3: Green Goblin, Shocker, Rhino, Lizard
Synopsis: Spidey fights crooks that are trying to make a names for themselves with a sense of humor, but they pack a punch, and also trying to stop a creature called the Lizard, that he finds out later that is his professor and tries to help him and his family, but little does Peter know that his family and friends are being threatned by the Green Goblin, he's back and vicious as ever. Classic battle scenes with villians and the great mind games and cxlassic battle with green goblin and Gewn stacy, where she meets her deaht and Green goblin as well, while Harry is there in the shadows. Marry jane consol peter about Gwen death and Harry takes off the costume of his father and looks at the Goblin mask.
End

End. Message of movie, The Hero life is begining to be to much for parker

More to come

[giggs11uk]

if they redo the franchise down the road they should use completly new villians like Kingpin (we won't see him in the current movies because of Daredevil), and James Cameroons Electro, Hydroman. So people don't consider the movies remakes of the classic Spider-man movies we are watching now

[Chris Wallace]

:down ON THIS WHOLE IDEA. It was necessary for Batman; not so much for Spidey.

[iceberg325]

:down ON THIS WHOLE IDEA. It was necessary for Batman; not so much for Spidey.

Agreed!!!! :venom:

[Chris Wallace]

And it might not have been necessary for Batman had the studio not decided to take it over & try to target kids over fans.

[Tangled Web]

And it might not have been necessary for Batman had the studio not decided to take it over & try to target kids over fans.
You mean like what Spider-Man 3 is going to do?

[Chris Wallace]

And you base this on what?

[Tangled Web]

And you base this on what?
Thanks you Spider-Man Day
Four Villians (more toys)
Venom (kids love him)
Dumbed down plots.

[Batman]

I think he's basing it on Harry's "Callabunga, Dude!" look. Which, truth be told, that is the only thing even close to 'kid friendly' I've seen in the teaser. Everything else looks pretty dark, compared to the previous two.

[Batman]

Thanks you Spider-Man Day
Four Villians (more toys)
Venom (kids love him)
Dumbed down plots.

You're doing the same thing you've done with all the Spidey films, thus far. You're pointing out all the negatives, even when the positives outweigh them.

And since when the hell do kids love Venom? :confused:

[Chris Wallace]

Some kids are into Venom, but he's not what I'd call a kid-friendly character. He slobbers all over the place, constantly threatens to consume some vital part of people's anatomies, his character has connotations that can be equated with drug addiction or demonic possession (take your pick.) he's hideous, he's a monster, & his name is a synonym for poison, which is synonymous with death.
Yeah-that belongs on a Happy Meal box.
It's mainly adults who have been clamoring for Venom the last 5 years. Or are you new to these boards, TW?
Plus, Raimi is still in charge here. The studio is not calling the shots. And they sertainly haven't mandated that a franchise which has done well over a billion in tickets & merchandising needs to be more kid-friendly.

[Tangled Web]

I know for a fact that kids love Venom and Carnage. They know nothing of these characters but they love them. Alot of kids I talked to ask me if Venom and Carnage are going to be in 3. I tell them that I hope not, Venom needs to be developed and Carnage is an awful character.

[Tangled Web]

Oh and Chris, Venom has been in happy meals before, remember the animated series?

They kiddied out Green Goblin. In the comics he would have destroyed that bridge when those people threw stuf at him.
Same with Ock on the El Train.
Raimi also must love Jekyll and Hyde because it's impossible for him to have a Spidey villian that does these things on their own will.

[giggs11uk]

Raimi also must love Jekyll and Hyde because it's impossible for him to have a Spidey villian that does these things on their own will.

I think Sandman does things on his own will, or is he possesed by evil sand?:confused:

BUT, you are right about
Green Goblin
Doc Ock
HarryGoblin
Venom, though

[matthooper]

You mean like what Spider-Man 3 is going to do?


You can't be serious. You seriously feel that SM3 is for kids. Not SM 1 or SM2 but 3? I refuse to believe that you actually think that. There is not one thing in that trailer that is for kids. Or for that matter not one thing we've heard at all.

You're trolling for reactions.

[Tangled Web]

Did the SM2 trailer look like it was going to be for kids? No, did we end up with little kid moments? Yes. There is very good reason to believe that Raimi will hold back ($$$).
That's why one day, I'd like to see a re launch. This franchise is so obsessed with setting records that they forget their roots.

Look, I like the films for what they are, but they could definitley be more faithful.

[Chris Wallace]

:rolleyes: Just because we don't have a bodycount of 5,000 doesn't mean it's a kiddie movie. You sound like these guys clamoring for an "R" rated flick.

[Matt Murdock]

Did the SM2 trailer look like it was going to be for kids? No, did we end up with little kid moments? Yes. There is very good reason to believe that Raimi will hold back ($$$).
That's why one day, I'd like to see a re launch. This franchise is so obsessed with setting records that they forget their roots.

Look, I like the films for what they are, but they could definitley be more faithful.

Are you stupid? Obviously there need to be moments for kids, its a superhero movie-- kids love superheros, therefore there need to be moments for that demographic. And thats the reason that Raimi would hold back, if he is, not money. The spider-man movies have made plenty of money, hence, Raimi isn't holding back, he's telling the same story in a different manner. As long as the power - responsibility relationship remains the same, the core spider-man story remains the same. Throughout his history, spider-man has been plagued with his choices ruining him. That's what these movies are about, not the order of villain appearances, or quips while fighting.

[Chris Wallace]

And as for the 4 villains, considering that in all likelihood they're counting Spider-Man himself, don't trip.

[TheVileOne]

You novices make it sound like Batman Begins was a word for word recreation.

[Chris Wallace]

They love to do that.

[Tangled Web]

I'm not saying Spider-Man needs to be R rated, I'm sating it needs to be accurate. No watered down villians, no ****ty dialogue ect... I hope that one day someone who cares about the fans (not about the box office) will make films that are more faithful to the source material.

[WhiteRat]

I'm not saying Spider-Man needs to be R rated, I'm sating it needs to be accurate. No watered down villians, no ****ty dialogue ect... I hope that one day someone who cares about the fans (not about the box office) will make films that are more faithful to the source material.

exactly.amen to that.:up: Good thread Tangled Web.Contrary to what Chris says,spiderman needs to be restarted the same way Batman needed to.I also hope someday we get a director who cares about the fans who makes the films faithful to the source material like Nolan was with Batman Begins and not one who just cares about box office results.btw,Tangled web,what do you mean by the unsettling news of sm3? sony has said they plan on making at least 6 of them?:confused:

[Tangled Web]

I've also heard that Sony wants to milk it dry, but I don't see that happening. If it does then expect the SM 4, 5 and 6 to be worse than Batman & Robin.

[Spider-Hiker]

:down ON THIS WHOLE IDEA. It was necessary for Batman; not so much for Spidey.

Well your half way right. True it was necessary for Batman, but it is ALSO very much neccessary for spider-man as well, even more so. These movies are dog doo and betray his character and the comicbook to the extremes. Like the thread starter said, we need a Spider-Man Begins restart just as badly as we needed a Batman Begins restart.
:up:

[Chris Wallace]

No. The comics have betrayed the character. Everything that initially drew me in to Spider-Man, & kept me interested in him all these years-is present in the movies & has been conspicuously absent since roughly around the time he joined the New Avengers.

[griffolyon12]

Why are so many people closed minded about a relaunch someday,besides you know it will happen either way you protest it.I think it could be really cool,it would be interseting to see someone elses take on him.But all of the nay sayers don't worry,although I know it will happen it probably wont happen for in the next 10-20 years.

[DACrowe]

Oh well yeah in like 20 years or 30 when this movie is a classic but they'll want to recreate the character for a new audience (I would expect a more serious and grittier version at that time) they'll probably try and do it maybe sans origin but I could see t hem starting over. I think the origin will be gold in the first movie and untouchable, though I doubt we'll see a SR treatment ever to Raimi's movies.

With that said, I don't think a restart is as vital. The only real thing I think that was a huge loss has been the multiple love interests and Peter's flirtation but it is subjective if just having one girl worked or not. It certainly dilluted the GG though. However, these films are nowhere near off track like Schumaucher was.

And that is a fact too though.

[Chris Wallace]

Why are so many people closed minded about a relaunch someday,besides YOU KNOW IT WILL HAPPEN either way you protest it.I think it could be really cool,it would be interseting to see someone elses take on him.But all of the nay sayers don't worry,although I know it will happen it probably wont happen for in the next 10-20 years.
Says who? You have no point of reference to say it's a definite.

[James"007"Bond]

Oh well yeah in like 20 years or 30 when this movie is a classic but they'll want to recreate the character for a new audience (I would expect a more serious and grittier version at that time) they'll probably try and do it maybe sans origin but I could see t hem starting over. I think the origin will be gold in the first movie and untouchable, though I doubt we'll see a SR treatment ever to Raimi's movies.

With that said, I don't think a restart is as vital. The only real thing I think that was a huge loss has been the multiple love interests and Peter's flirtation but it is subjective if just having one girl worked or not. It certainly dilluted the GG though. However, these films are nowhere near off track like Schumaucher was.

And that is a fact too though.

Do you know why that is? Its because of the lack of accuracy in story telling and characterizastion. In the movies Parker hasn't really developed additional social skills since being bitten by the spider and this was not the case in the comics. Thus we have a character in these movies who despite gaining incredible powers still lacks the necessary confidence to openly be himself and feel somewhat relaxed, so its no wonder there's a lack of relationships he has with females.

[Chris Wallace]

Here's the thing you guys are overlooking; in the case of Batman, it had not only gone in a bad direction. It had gone in a drastically different direction than what was initially intended. We don't lambast "Batman & Robin" for being campy, hokey or a 2-hour toy commercial. We lambast it b/c it was such a huge departure from the Dark Knight films that we'd previously seen. Now since Spider-Man is still being guided by the same people who started the franchise-and they have the Batman example to learn from-I don't see that happening. As for Superman, the relaunch there probably wasn't the best move. Say what you will about "Superman Returns". It didn't pull the numbers at the box office that WB was hoping for. Plus, you guys clamoring for a relaunch are a small minority. Not enough to convince Sony. They're in the business of making money, & the Spider-Man films have been doing that. As it stands, Spidey is THE top moneymaker of all comic book movies. It'd be foolish to tamper w/that.

[Melkia2880]

I've been reading most everything here, and I'm not really responding to anything specific, just wanted to say that I think Raimi's films are excellent, actually had a chance to meet him and speak with him for a bit shortly after Spider-Man 2 came out, he's a really nice guy and has done a great job with the films.

The one thing I never understood is why they went the way of "Spider-Man" "Spider-Man 2" Spaider-Man 3" where there are already titles such as, The Amazing Spider-Man, the Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man...it would have been neat (though probably only for lovers of the comics) to have the titles of the films reflect the titles of the various comics. this is mostly off topic, sorry for that.

Though I think it is only natural to have a new take and vision of the character somewhere down the line...but as for a complete reboot, there will need to be a considerable amount of time between the last film in the franchise and attempting to restart.

[Chris Wallace]

I think they opted against going the alternate title route because of Batman as well.