Evidence Bush knew 9-11 would happen and did nothing.Deal with it non believers.

[Super Flight]

damnit Mozilla

[FlameHead]

Pyroclasic clouds can be caused by exploded pipelines, and the rushing of fire-caused smoke out of the side of the buildings. Thank you for that mental zinger.

You said there was no evidence of controlled demolion. I said other wise. Simple as that. What caused the pyroclasic clouds is unknown.

Yes, debris does that when a building PANCAKES. Have you ever witnessed a CD? I'm guessing not. Debris flies pretty far from the area when levels pancake onto each other. Try harder.

Debris does not shoot up in the air when something is collapsing though. Sorry, try harder.

Near free fall? I thought that stupid video from loose "change was already showed to be false. I suppose you still haven't looked at my source.:down

You obvioulsy haven't looked at building 7 falling. I understand, these things are hard to watch but, trust me, it's worth it. In the end, all the pain will go away. Building 7 is an obvious controlled demo. Plain and simple and there is no argument against it.

There is no evidence of this. Were you in the building when it collapsed, no? And the center structures are made of hollow steel, so anything can go first.. it depends on the relative heat in the area.

When the official reasoning behind the fall is that is suffered emense damage to the OUTSIDE of the building due to the other building's collapse, yes there is evidence that the support structers IN THE CENTER would not go first. Plus, you can see the squibs going off up the side of the building.

Um.. you know, those can always be.. uhh.. GASLINES?! OMG, what a concept, gaslines explode when they're exposed to extreme heat?! Well, when near 200,000 tons of steel falls on concrete, would you expect it to remain intact and untouched? Where do you get this ****?

Sure, it could be gaslines but, why is it and the testimonies of them being heard not talked about at all in the Comission Report or anywhere else.

No one ever said it was molten steel besides the conspiracy theorists. They said it looked like molten steel. It could've EASILY been molten aluminum.

Could have yes... beneath buildings 1 and 2 but, not WTC 7 as no plane hit there. Also, aluminium remains a silver color, not hot yellow and white. Besides, there were extreame heat recordings long after the attacks which are still not explained.

I don't see how Silverstein really gained anything from this. Yes, he may have gained some profits.. but the rebuilding will cost him a fortune. Does this not register to you? Do you not realize that building things COSTS MONEY?

He was awarded the guarentee that his contruction company gets the rights to build the next tower silly. Not only did he collect 2.2 billion dollars in insurance, he'll profit from the building of the next tower as well.

Thank you for completing your ignorant rant. See you again in Round 2.

"Ignoracnce is Bliss" - Extromaniac's moto

[Extromaniac]

No one here will be convinced of anything. 500 experts could tell TSOG he's wrong, wouldn't matter. 500 experts could tell extromaniac he's wrong, wouldn't matter.

For every expert I find that says jet fuel can't melt steel girders, I can find one who says it can.

I can say it's fishy that Cheney ordered the fighter jets to stand down even though it's normal procedure to scramble within minutes of loss of contact with a plane. Others will say it was a diplomatic decision.

stupid, stupid Sisyphean ball-pushing.

I can't believe this. You don't need to MELT IT. If their experts, they would all agree that jet fuel-heat fires CAN warp and twist steel girders. And lose about 50-80% of their ability to hold up weight at that point. Please a better point. :down

And actually, a few F-16s did scramble. But, since the planes transponders were turned off, it'd be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

[Otis Driftwood]

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

This guide was written as a companion to the "Loose Change" video that FlameHead and TSOG undoubtebly watch on a daily basis, but I find this passage to be particularly relevant to the current topic.

[/quote]Much of the case for "controlled demolition" of the WTC Twin Towers (although, curiously, not of WTC 7) rests on the fact that many witnesses reported hearing and seeing secondary explosions after the planes hit. I've never been surprised in the least by these reports. Why wouldn't there be secondary explosions, and things that sound like explosions or bombs, in a disaster of that type and magnitude in buildings of that type and magnitude? I have yet to hear from a CTist why that's surprising.

One thing we often don't know is exactly when and where those explosions were heard, and this video certainly makes no effort to clarify that. For instance, how many people, in both towers, heard (but didn't see) flight 175 hit the south tower and reported that as a big secondary explosion? How many people were reporting the same event, but when those reports are listed, it looks like many events? We don't know.

And how many of these explosions were electrical systems shorting, transformers and switchgear blowing, generators failing, steam pipes bursting, flaming debris and steel beams falling down elevator shafts, etc. Several reports call the sound of the actual collapse of tower 2 a "huge explosion."

Electrical explosions do happen in skyscrapers:

Electrical Fire Hurts 6 at Trade Center
An air-conditioning transformer five stories below the World Trade Center caught fire after an explosion last night, the authorities said. Six people were injured, none of them seriously, but the 110-story twin towers did not have to be evacuated, the authorities said. The fire was first reported at 10:02 P.M. in a 13,000-volt transformer in the Trade Center's refrigeration plant, which provides air conditioning and ventilation for the complex, the Fire Department and the Port Authority said. The electrical fire, which went to three alarms, was brought under control at 11:24 P.M., said a Fire Department official, Lieutenant Erick Weekes. NEW YORK TIMES July 24, 1992

Remarks on the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing by Fire Chief Donald J. Burns
"Usually, a report of an explosion in a high-rise indicates an electrical problem such as a large short or a transformer explosion. "

Video of a transformer explosion.


What the various explosions reported would have to do with CD, I don't know. When you demolish a building with explosives, you set the charges to go off in a precise order at demolition time, not in a random fashion for nearly an hour. Some CTists have suggested that bombs were placed at different locations within the building. I have yet to hear a plausible explanation for why that would be. Large bombs would really mess up your carefully-prepared controlled demolition. What's more, no one I know of has come up with any plausible explanation of how this massive amount of CD work could have been accomplished.

So, before we get back to the video, I'd like to propose a little thought experiment to the conspiracy believers. I've asked this before but no one has ever answered. Please describe, in as much detail as possible, what you would EXPECT to hear and see after a fully-loaded airliner hit a skyscraper at top speed, causing enormous damage, and the building caught fire to the point of collapse?

And when a billion-pound building does start to collapse, what would you EXPECT to see and hear at the lower levels?

Because in order to be surprised by what did happen, you must have some expectation of what SHOULD have happened. So I'd like you to stop and think about that. More than that, I'd like to HEAR what you have to say on the matter.

And if you can't come up with an answer, then please talk to the experts: structural engineers, fire safety engineers, and failure analysts. Does it bother you that none of them agree with you?

Once I was driving on the highway and an 18-wheeler blew a tire as it pulled alongside me on the left. The tire was just a few feet from my window. I described it as "like a cannon going off in my ear." But no cannon went off in my ear. I was using a common simile to describe a dramatic event. Please keep that in mind throughout this section.

Please keep in mind that I'm not disputing what witnesses say they saw and heard. I'm just suggesting that there are many plausible explanations for those phenomena that don't involve implausible bombs.[/quote]

[FlameHead]

A hard reality to face? HAH! Look at my rebuttal. I tore apart every point you gave me to the controlled demo theory. Thanks, and come again!

And I did read through the list. I read through all their expertise. And not once did I see "Worked on or near WTC before or after clean up"

Um, you do realize that all the rubble was quickley shipped to China right? You do realize that it was over 400 days before an official investigation started right?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I can't believe this. You don't need to MELT IT. If their experts, they would all agree that jet fuel-heat fires CAN warp and twist steel girders. And lose about 50-80% of their ability to hold up weight at that point. Please a better point. :down

And actually, a few F-16s did scramble. But, since the planes transponders were turned off, it'd be like looking for a needle in a haystack.Wow, you're so argumentative that you were completely blind to my actual point.:down

[Carter]

Thats a freaking wave....I feel like Trebek on celebrity Jeopardy.

That is pretty much sig worthy

[Extromaniac]

You said there was no evidence of controlled demolion. I said other wise. Simple as that. What caused the pyroclasic clouds is unknown. There is no evidence, because this "evidence" points exactly to some other more reasonable conclusion. :up:



Debris does not shoot up in the air when something is collapsing though. Sorry, try harder. Yes, actually it DOES. Debris shoots up in the air because of the pancake effect. It pushes all the debris out the side from the pressure caused by falling levels. And the dust and lighter debris will be pushed upwards by the wind and force. Pathetic.



You obvioulsy haven't looked at building 7 falling. I understand, these things are hard to watch but, trust me, it's worth it. In the end, all the pain will go away. Building 7 is an obvious controlled demo. Plain and simple and there is no argument against it. No, it's obviously not. How can you tell? Have you seen ever CD in existence, or have you seen a building fall on it's own? Apparently you haven't. And apparently you don't know the strength of a fire that burns for hours on end :down



When the official reasoning behind the fall is that is suffered emense damage to the OUTSIDE of the building due to the other building's collapse, yes there is evidence that the support structers IN THE CENTER would not go first. Plus, you can see the squibs going off up the side of the building. Squibs? What the hell are squibs? WC7 didn't ever get hit, you said this yourself. Most of it's damage and imminent collapse were due to spreading fires in the building. And you know what? Gas pipelines are also in the MIDDLE of the structure. Funny how that works, right?



Sure, it could be gaslines but, why is it and the testimonies of them being heard not talked about at all in the Comission Report or anywhere else. It is talked about, ALOT. Apparently, you have never, EVER read any of the testimonies of the thousands of experts that say that the flashes in the building were more than likely GAS PIPELINES. There are sources for that, you know. And it's all in the site that I posted. :down

You still haven't read it, have you? I'm guessing not.



Could have yes... beneath buildings 1 and 2 but, not WTC 7 as no plane hit there. Also, aluminium remains a silver color, not hot yellow and white. Besides, there were extreame heat recordings long after the attacks which are still not explained. Aluminum is not always silver? Wtf are you talking about?! All metal has certain levels of heat. And it ranges from red hot to yellow to white. Sheesh. :down Umm.. and those could be caused by burning fires..??



He was awarded the guarentee that his contruction company gets the rights to build the next tower silly. Not only did he collect 2.2 billion dollars in insurance, he'll profit from the building of the next tower as well. No he won't, he'll have to PAY for the new tower as well. That won't equal many profits in the long run. Apparently, you don't know how much it costs to construct a skyscraper.



"Ignoracnce is Bliss" - Extromaniac's moto No, I believe that motto is your own, with your own ridiculous bull**** lies that you've surfaced in about two seconds of your time.

Read and you will learn.

See you in Round 3.

[Extromaniac]

Um, you do realize that all the rubble was quickley shipped to China right? You do realize that it was over 400 days before an official investigation started right?

Actually no. It was not. The stuff was investigated from Day ONE. It was not immediately shipped to China. You're following loose change by the book, aren't you? :o

[Super Flight]

Thats a lot of people :eek: does anyone know where this took place? new york is it?

http://www.septembereleventh.org/images/signs/nymarch.jpg

[FlameHead]

... borrowed rant...

Unlike you, I do not base all my beliefs on one documentary. I've watched over 60 of them and if you can find a debunking on everything I've watched, then that would be great.

28 videos/documentaries dealing specifically with 9/11:
http://canadawantsthetruth911videos.blogspot.com/

40+ dealing with related subjects:
http://canadawantsthetruth911relatedvideos.blogspot.com/

Until you watch all of them, I believe you really have no place arguing let alone lumping me into a group who uses one documentary as it's bible... you know, like how the nay sayers use the Popular Mechanics article as theirs.

[JLBats]

Somebody close this ****. It's a cancer on the Hype.

[Carter]

Another one will just pop up.
Flamehead, do you realize that just because Bush isn't being completely honest about 9/11 it doesn't mean that he's the evil mastermind behind it?

[FlameHead]

Read and you will learn.

See you in Round 3.

There is only one thing I'll bother to refute from your post and that's that Aluminum has a different color. Go look it up bucko, it looks like mercury when it's heated to the flowing point.

The rest is just gibberish and not worth discussing. In fact, debating with you is pointless as you won't look at the information and then accuse me of not looking at your information. I've read it all my friend. I've been researching this daily for the last 7 months and while I have much to learn, I've read and watched a lot more than you'll ever bother too.

[Otis Driftwood]

Um, you do realize that all the rubble was quickley shipped to China right? You do realize that it was over 400 days before an official investigation started right?Even if it was shipped to China, then wouldn't it take a while to:

A) Collect the rubble from the site

b) Ship to China

C) Organize and catalogue the rubble so that an investigation was possible.

[FlameHead]

Actually no. It was not. The stuff was investigated from Day ONE. It was not immediately shipped to China. You're following loose change by the book, aren't you? :o

Look it up smart ass.

[FlameHead]

Another one will just pop up.
Flamehead, do you realize that just because Bush isn't being completely honest about 9/11 it doesn't mean that he's the evil mastermind behind it?

You know, if you people would actually read and digest what I'm saying then you'd realize that I never once gave credit to George W. Bush for being the evil mastermind behind this. This is your problem. You're not even reading what we're saying before refuting it.

[FlameHead]

Even if it was shipped to China, then wouldn't it take a while to:

C) Organize and catalogue the rubble so that an investigation was possible.

Which is what they failed to do.

[JLBats]

Please, please close this. It's not so much that it's evil, as that it's hurting the Hype. Please stop hurting the Hype. Thank you.

[Otis Driftwood]

There is only one thing I'll bother to refute from your post and that's that Aluminum has a different color. Go look it up bucko, it looks like mercury when it's heated to the flowing point.

The rest is just gibberish and not worth discussing. In fact, debating with you is pointless as you won't look at the information and then accuse me of not looking at your information. I've read it all my friend. I've been researching this daily for the last 7 months and while I have much to learn, I've read and watched a lot more than you'll ever bother too.
Researching everyday or clicking every link you see on the Loose Change message boards?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You know, if you people would actually read and digest what I'm saying then you'd realize that I never once gave credit to George W. Bush for being the evil mastermind behind this. This is your problem. You're not even reading what we're saying before refuting it.George W. isn't the mastermind behind tying his freaking shoes.
Bush had nothing to do with any of this. Just check his facial expression when he was told about it.

someone such as jag may've characterized it as a "shart face".

[Super Flight]

Please, please close this. It's not so much that it's evil, as that it's hurting the Hype. Please stop hurting the Hype. Thank you.

you can be banned by that, believe me, i was banned for saying i wanted the lance bass thread closed lol

[FlameHead]

Actually, this is a thread that's far more worthy of being here than say the Last Movie Watched thread. At least there is a conversation happening here.

Plus, I wouldn't want to have to accuse the hype of censorship. So many other boards out there have fallen to such low levels as to not even allow the conversation to be had.

[Carter]

You know, if you people would actually read and digest what I'm saying then you'd realize that I never once gave credit to George W. Bush for being the evil mastermind behind this. This is your problem. You're not even reading what we're saying before refuting it.

I don't even read your posts because I've debunked pages upon pages of this BS in the past.

[Otis Driftwood]

There is only one thing I'll bother to refute from your post and that's that Aluminum has a different color. Go look it up bucko, it looks like mercury when it's heated to the flowing point.

The rest is just gibberish and not worth discussing. In fact, debating with you is pointless as you won't look at the information and then accuse me of not looking at your information. I've read it all my friend. I've been researching this daily for the last 7 months and while I have much to learn, I've read and watched a lot more than you'll ever bother too. You know, if you people would actually read and digest what I'm saying then you'd realize that I never once gave credit to George W. Bush for being the evil mastermind behind this. This is your problem. You're not even reading what we're saying before refuting it.Did you just refute your own argument?

[JLBats]

you can be banned by that, believe me, i was banned for saying i wanted the lance bass thread closed lol

Whoever banned you was lying. You can't be banning for requesting a thread be closed. I'm thinking the mod just hated you.

[Otis Driftwood]

you can be banned by that, believe me, i was banned for saying i wanted the lance bass thread closed lolYou can also be banned for re-registering after you've been banned once before.

[Super Flight]

Whoever banned you was lying. You can't be banning for requesting a thread be closed. I'm thinking the mod just hated you.

i dont think dog lips hates me, it was only a day, the reason he did it was becasue of the nuke pictures...lol

[FlameHead]

Researching everyday or clicking every link you see on the Loose Change message boards?

Again, you refuse to listen to what I've said.

LOOSE CHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY DOCUMENTARY OUT THERE DEALING WITH THIS SUBJECT!!!!

Sorry for yelling.

Watch the 28 others that I just posted. Watch the countless panels and discussions that have been taped from presentations conducted all over the world.

Do some reasearch into related topics like CIA. JFK. BUSH - BIN LADEN connections just to name a couple of relevent topics.

You people...

[FlameHead]

I don't even read your posts because I've debunked pages upon pages of this BS in the past.

Then my conversation with you will cease. There is no bother discussing anything with somebody who refuses to at least listen to what is being said.

Good Day.

[Carter]

Loose Change is so full of **** it's not even worth looking at

[JLBats]

i dont think dog lips hates me, it was only a day, the reason he did it was becasue of the nuke pictures...lol

Er, that was because you guys were being homophobic and suggesting gay people should die.

Good try though.

[JLBats]

Again, you refuse to listen to what I've said.

LOOSE CHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY DOCUMENTARY OUT THERE DEALING WITH THIS SUBJECT!!!!

Sorry for yelling.

Watch the 28 others that I just posted. Watch the countless panels and discussions that have been taped from presentations conducted all over the world.

Do some reasearch into related topics like CIA. JFK. BUSH - BIN LADEN connections just to name a couple of relevent topics.

You people...

Richard Nixon's "Bay of Pig's thing"...

[Super Flight]

Er, that was because you guys were being homophobic and suggesting gay people should die.

Good try though.

No I said LANCE BASS should die aswell as the thread, then posted a picture of a nuke explostion

[FlameHead]

Try a google search for something outside of your own realm of belief why don't cha?

* 9/11 - A Closer Look (23 min 19 sec)
A look inside the attacks on 9/11 by Eric Hufschmid. Is the U.S. Government capable of conducting an unbiased investigation into the 9-11 attacks?

* 9/11 and the American Empire (1 hr 21 min 46 sec)
David Ray Griffin, an acclaimed philosopher-theologian and author of the 9/11 truth blockbusters "The New Pearl Harbor" ... all » and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions", has made a rare public appearance and a brand-new talk, entitled "9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?". It will focus on the ethical and spiritual dimension of facing the overwhelming evidence that the Bush Administration was complicit in the attacks of September 11th, 2001.

* 9/11 Commission Report - Ommissions and Distortions (59 min 26 sec)
A lecture by David Ray Griffin about the "9/11 Commission Report" and his latest book " The 9/11 Commission Report: ... all » Omissions and Distortions".

Here he debunkd the entire Kean commission and the report as an enourmous lie through ommissions.

* 9/11 Eyewitness (1 hr 44 min 40 sec)
Learn the truth about what happened at the World Trade Center on 9.11.2001 from eyewitness testimony and scientific ... all » analysis. High quality, three-chip digital video reveals the previously unseen reverse angle to televised coverage of the Twin Towers and Seven World Trade collapsing and a lot more. This is the only known unedited footage that contains a clear, real-time audio track of the many disturbing events that took place during the WTC destruction. Local news radio coverage was overheard playing in the background live at the Hoboken waterfront. Scientific analysis is presented in an easy to understand manner. The pictures tell the story and this is one story that all New Yorkers, and anyone who was traumatized by the shocking attack on the WTC, must see. In memory of all those who perished, 911 Eyewitness is a voice of the victims that must never be forgotten.

* 9/11 - In Plane Site - The Director's Cut (1 hr 12 min 10 sec)
This groundbreaking documentary by Dave vonKleist of the Power Hour radio show addresses the evidence that lead to the ... all » conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. Using photographic and video evidence, vonKleist brings you through all of the unseen evidence.

* 9/11 Revisited (56 min 3 sec)
Visit www.911revisited.com to get the free dvd of this movie!

* 9/11 - The Great Illusion - End Game Of The Illuminati (1hr 54min)
George Humphrey provides objective and factual information while asking relevant questions concerning events which took ... all » place on September 11. This booklet gives a clear summary of the occurrences of 9/11 uncovering "The Great Illusion" presented by the predominate media. An invaluable tool to use at a grass roots level. Starting with ourselves, we can restore sanity and justice, one person at a time.

* 9/11 - The Road to Tyranny (& Extras) (2 hr 5 min 9 sec)
From the Bush family business ties to the bin Ladens, to insider trading just prior to the attacks, this video ... all » featuring Alex Jones and extensive documentation provides the proof you need to share with others.

This video was released in December of 2001. It was the first video out exposing the problems with the offical story by the government and government involvment in 9/11. Alex Jones is no longer selling this video. He has relased a more complete version as 9/11: The Road to Tyranny.

This video is non-copyrighted. Alex Jones has permitted and encourged the distribution of these videos for non-profit, educational purposes. If you would like to help Alex Jones, buy from him by going through his website. It can be done online or through his office.

Extras (24 min 49 sec): This is a weekly report from The Alex Jones Report, a local show of his on Austin Public Access Televison aired on ... all » December 21, 2004.

This condensed video features extras from 9/11 The Road To Tyranny that were not included in the original VHS film. Alex discussed in a bullet point fashion the precise reasons why the Globalists carried out the attack on September 11 2001.

This video is non-copyrighted. Alex Jones has permitted and encourged the distribution of these videos for non-profit, educational purposes. If you would like to help Alex Jones and/or have a hard copy, buy one from him by going through his website. It can be done online or through his office.

* 9/11 Special - Dutch Television Documentary (16 min 22 sec)
Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von ... all » Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.

“Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.�

Michael Meacher - MP - Former UK Government Minister. "The war on terror is bogus"

Andreas Von Bulow, Former German Secretary Of Defense "The official story is so inadequate and far fetched that there must be a different one"

* 9/11 - The Greatest Lie Ever Sold (2 hr 6 min 1 sec)
Fantastic critique of this fashist bush regime by Antony Hilder.

* CALL 911 (Apx 40min)
Thanks to http://www.freepressinternational.com

* Confronting the Evidence (2 hr 40 min 52 sec)
Philanthropist Jimmy Walter analyzes 9/11 conspiracy, coverup.

* David Shayler on 911 (Apx 20min)
David Shayler introduces 911 Truth Bristol's ‘Face the Facts’ and explains why 911 is of vital importance today.

* Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime (1 hr 11 min 48 sec)
We move into an unprecedented dangerous time for American foreign policy. I believe that the 9/11 movement holds the keys to bringing sanity and true power into the hands of the people.

* Face the Facts - An Alternative View of 911 (47 min 22 sec)
This film is a compilation of the views of 911 footage from around the world. Watch this 45 minute film and make up ... all » your own mind about the truth by looking at the facts.

* Loose Change 2nd Edition (1 hr 21 min 50 sec)
"This is the best damn 9-11 documentary out there." -Dave vonKleist, Producer of "911:In Plane Site" Loose Change is an ... all » extremely hard hitting, heavily referenced documentary. It has the best footage that I have seen to date, of all the bombs and explosions going off at the World Trade Center. He covers each individual aspect of 9/11 in keen detail, and after watching 'Loose Change' it is almost impossible to walk away and not believe that 9/11 was engineered, not by Osama, but by our own Government.

Heres a quote from Tom Flocco regarding Dylan Avery's brand new 911 documentary;

"...The best packaged DVD footage for sharing actual TV coverage & interviews shown only once during WTC / Pentagon attacks--evidence strangely removed from repeat broadcasts ...striking visual and narrative analysis--shown frame by frame--pointing to government-linked mass murder and a new Pearl Harbor ...every school class should see !

"Loose Change 2nd Edition" is the follow-up to the most provocative 9-11 documentary on the market today.

This film shows direct connection between the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the United States government.

Evidence is derived from news footage, scientific fact, and most important, Americans who suffered through that tragic day.

IT IS THE DUTY OF EVERY AMERICAN TO VIEW THIS FILM!

* Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State (& Extras) (2 hr 35 min 43 sec)
Martial Law: 9/11 Rise of the Police State was filmed primarily during the Republican Party's 2004 national convention ... all » in New York City. The Republican Party's choice to hold the event there drew both strong praise and strong criticism. Alex Jones' clear intent was that the people who were truly guilty of planning and carrying out the events of September 11, 2001 were coming back to the scene of the crime. In the film, Jones shows what he believes are signs of a growing police state: constant surveillance, a defined military presence, a militarized civilian police force, mass roundups and arrests of protesters, detention in a makeshift facility laden with asbestos which one interviewee called a "concentration camp", and threats of arrest for constitutionally legal activities. Many different views are presented, including one semi-humorous confrontation with a group of American communists. One man appears to be agitating, while another man responds to Jones' insistence that he was recording all peoples' views with: "you're very biased... you probably work for Fox".

This video is non-copyrighted. Alex Jones has permitted and encourged the distribution of these videos for non-profit, educational purposes. If you would like to help Alex Jones and/or have a hard copy, buy one from him by going through his website. It can be done online or through his office.

EXTRAS: Evil has spread across the land. Martial Law: 9/11 Rise of the Police State exposes the high-tech control grid that is ... all » being set up across America

Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestrators.

LEARN THE TERRIFYING SECRET THAT HOLDS THE FUTURE OF THE WORLD IN ITS GRASP

From the frontlines of the Police State to the darkest sanctum of the secret society that controls it, Martial Law reveals the master plan of a group hell-bent on capturing America today -- and tomorrow the world.

THE NEW WORLD ORDER HAS SET IN MOTION THE FOURTH REICH

Martial Law is a blazing spotlight piercing the electronic Berlin Wall that is the corporate-controlled media. Plumb the depths of the Elite’s minds: their ideology, their driving philosophy – and uncover the power-mad “cult of Death� that is sworn to turn the Earth into a prison planet. Discover the documented truth yourself -- before it’s too late.

* Painful Deceptions (1 hr 23 min 43 sec)
http:// www.reopen911.org
We are a group of individuals brought together byJimmy Walter (pictured at left), dedicated to opening a real ... all » investigation into the the tragic attacks on September 11, 2001. Read Mr Walter's Open Letter on 9/11. Watch his introduction to our FREE video, "Confronting the Evidence: A Call to Reopen the 911 Investigation." Watch clip from Geraldo Rivera show (broadband only)

Our intention is to bring awareness to new available evidence, and to birth a grassroots movement into further seeking the truth of 911. This movement continues to develop in commitment, passion and determination. At ReOpen911.org we work to unite people who are interested in our mission regardless of political party, race, color, sex, age, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation, national origin or any other differences. We are non-partisan in the true sense of the word in that we are Republicans, Libertarians, Objectivists, Democrats, Socialists, and Greens.

* Perspective on 9/11 (1 hr 58 min 9 sec)
Perspective 9-11 is a insight research on the story behing the 9-11 attack...

* Putting 9-11 In A Historical Context (21 min 52 sec)
The September 11 attacks came as a surprise to many people but not everyone was taken aback.

Throughout history the ruling elite have ... all » used 'false-flag' acts of terrorism as a means of furthering its hidden agenda. By creating false pretexts for war, the elite have deceived the masses time and again into believing that they are under attack, or under the threat of attack, from external 'enemies'.

The Hegelian dialect of 'problem-reaction-solution' is a centuries old technique that the elite use whenever they wish to wage war or introduce social change. They create a crisis then wait for the public's reaction before supplying the 'solution' to the 'problem' that they created to begin with!

Clever stuff...and it works everytime without fail.

Nero torched Rome and blamed it on Christians. Hitler torched the Reichstag and blamed it on Communists. The perpetrators of 9/11 demolished the World Trade Centre and blamed it on Muslims.

This revealing mini-documentary puts 9/11 into an historical perspective and provides proof-positive of past 'false-flag' acts of terrorism designed to create mass-support for war.

If you were surprised by the September 11 attacks you won't be after seeing this excellent documentary.

Was 9/11 an inside job?

You're damn tootin' it was!!!...and here is the evidence.

* September 11: Evidence to the Contrary REDUX 2006 (1 hr 26 min 24 sec)
It is a new year and many new developments have occurred in the ... all » unfolding case for September 11.

September 11: Evidence to the Contrary REDUX 2006 is the film that brings it all together.

With an all new intro featuring Tucker Carlson and The Lone Gunman Pilot, this video promises to deliver the case. Included in this video is the meat of "Are the Criminals frightened", "Loose Change 2E", "911 Eyewitness", and "Martial Law 911", broken up with commercials from Reopen911.org and the news clip from FOX that featured "Loose Change 2E".

With all new music by Paul Oakenfold.

You will find that the information contained in this is a superior compilation of 911 evidence that the buildings had explosives in them. This 86:24min video is a great intro for anyone seeking answers about that day.

SHARE THIS FILM.

* September 11th - The Con, The Conspiracy, The Cover Up (2 hr 40 min)
September 11 911 conspiracy George Bush Loose Change in plane site David Ray Griffin The great conspiracy documentary ... all » exposing september 11th cover up evidence 911 inside job, 911 World Trade Center, pentagon, Shanksville, Hijack, Flight 11, Flight 93, Flight 175, Flight 77, Building 7, WTC, ... all » Conspiracy, September 11, 9/11 Truth Movement, Inside Job, Cover up, George Bush, Dick Chaney, Dick Cheney, Osama Bin Laden, Usama bin Laden, Patriots, David Ray griffin, Alex Jones, Dylan Avery, Corey Rowe, Barry Zwicker, Mike Ruppert, Dave Von kliest, Dr. Robert Bowman, Loose Change, The New Pearl Harbor, omissions and distortions, The Great Conspiracy, The 911 News special you never saw, 911 commission report, Eric Hufschmid, Jimmy Walter, Painful Questions, Loose Change, In plane Site, Controlled Demolition, Kay Griggs, Zionist, PNAC, Project for New American Century, Israel, Israeli, Arab all rolled into one documentary.

* The 9/11 – 7/7 Connection (52 min)
On Friday 22nd July 2005, Ian Crane opened the Glastonbury Symposium with an analysis of the sinister geopolitical webs ... all » that have been spun, resulting in the tragic events of 9/11 and 7/7.

Just two weeks after 7/7, Ian's research already indicated that the official version of the supposed 'terror' attacks in London cannot stand up to the scrutiny of research.

The subsequent failed attacks on 21/7, the assassination of Jean-Charles Menezes the folowing day and the bombing at Sharm-El-Sheik in Egypt on July 23rd raise even more painful and very disturbing questions.

This compilation of two live recordings (Glastonbury - 22nd July & Totnes - 30th August 2005) raises some very important and disturbing questions and is a 'must see' for anyone who still holds the view that the events of 9/11 and 7/7 were perpetrated by 'Muslim fanatics'.

Ian does not offer specifi answers .......... but for those who truly value the concept of democracy, it is imperative that they are aware of these extremely important but as yet unanswered questions.

* The Great Conspiracy (1 hr 10 min 22 sec)
The 9/11 News Special You Never Saw.

* The Great Deception - The War On Terrorism - An Alternative View (38 min 50 sec)
9/11, the CIA, Bin Laden and the oilirachy. 2002

* The Secret Evil of 9/11 (19 min 45 sec)
A great quick Overview of the 911 Issues.

* The Truth and Lies of 9/11 (2 hr 17 min 37 sec)
This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, painted a stark and accurate picture of our world ... all » today and TOMMORROW. Mike's new introduction "connects the dots."

* War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 (1 hr 56 min 31 sec)
In this lecture by Michel Chossudovsky, he blows away the smokescreen put up by the mainstream media, that 9/11 was an ... all » attack on America by "Islamic terrorists". Through meticulous research, he has uncovered a military-intelligence ploy behind the September 11 attacks, and the cover-up and complicity of key members of the Bush Administration.

According to Chossudovsky, the "war on terrorism" is a complete fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden, outwitted the $40 billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus. The "war on terrorism" is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final march to the "New World Order", dominated by Wall Street and the U.S. military-industrial complex.

September 11, 2001 provides a justification for waging a war without borders. Washington's agenda consists in extending the frontiers of the American Empire to facilitate complete U.S. corporate control, while installing within America the institutions of the Homeland Security State.

[Otis Driftwood]

Again, you refuse to listen to what I've said.

LOOSE CHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY DOCUMENTARY OUT THERE DEALING WITH THIS SUBJECT!!!!

Sorry for yelling.

Watch the 28 others that I just posted. Watch the countless panels and discussions that have been taped from presentations conducted all over the world.

Do some reasearch into related topics like CIA. JFK. BUSH - BIN LADEN connections just to name a couple of relevent topics.

You people...Pffft.......loose change envy.

[FlameHead]

Unless somebody has something intelligent to discuss, I'm done here.

I'll bring it up again in a month or least around 9/11 of this year when the Truth Movement has made it furhter into mainstream knowledge.

[Extromaniac]

Unless somebody has something intelligent to discuss, I'm done here.

I'll bring it up again in a month or least around 9/11 of this year when the Truth Movement has made it furhter into mainstream knowledge.

It never will. The Truth Movement is destined to die by it's own irrevocable stupidity. :o

[Hooligan32]

Anyone who doesn't believe that the Bush Admin. knew has got their head up their ass.

[FlameHead]

Anyone who doesn't believe that the Bush Admin. knew has got their head up their ass.

I could say the same for those who refute the evidence in 11 countries warning of the imminant attack.

[ShadowBoxing]

It never will. The Truth Movement is destined to die by it's own irrevocable stupidity. :oNo, it won't. Decades later we still have "faked moon landing" and "JFK killed by CIA/LBJ and FBI" conspiracies". I don't see why people would change here. People often flock to simple explanations to remove the responsibility of having actual knowledge and often to place blame on others. Furthermore, people tend to like to claim knowledge on as much as possible, and while the do have some in somethings, by and large they hide behind bullsh**.

[FlameHead]

Having some in some things warrents at least the ability to find all in everything. Right now, the Truth Movement is being not only denyed that ability but forcibly, puposly being shut out from being seen or heard.

Kevin Barrett is a great example.

Unfortunatly, Mr. Barrett almost lost his job for having his own beliefs on 9/11 but, he fought hard and was permitted to keep teaching. What's really interesting is that he was also threatened ("should be strung up and thrown in the river") on live TV and yet, the man who did the threatening still has a job.

And you still haven't seen the point. The CIA killed JFK "Conspiracy" is part of the same 9/11 "conspiracy".

Anyway, I'm trying to stay away from this but, it's hard not to talk about it...

[JLBats]

Having some in some things warrents at least the ability to find all in everything. Right now, the Truth Movement is being not only denyed that ability but forcibly, puposly being shut out from being seen or heard.

Kevin Barrett is a great example.

Unfortunatly, Mr. Barrett almost lost his job for having his own beliefs on 9/11 but, he fought hard and was permitted to keep teaching. What's really interesting is that he was also threatened ("should be strung up and thrown in the river") on live TV and yet, the man who did the threatening still has a job.

And you still haven't seen the point. The CIA killed JFK "Conspiracy" is part of the same 9/11 "conspiracy".

Anyway, I'm trying to stay away from this but, it's hard not to talk about it...

I'm not sure why any of this had to be said or matters.

And for the LAST GODDAMNED TIME, the JFK conspiracy can easily be taken as having nothing to do with 9/11. In YOUR EYES they're the same. In YOUR EYES.

God. People like you make me avoid the truth movement.

[ShadowBoxing]

Again, you refuse to listen to what I've said.

LOOSE CHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY DOCUMENTARY OUT THERE DEALING WITH THIS SUBJECT!!!!

Sorry for yelling.

Watch the 28 others that I just posted. Watch the countless panels and discussions that have been taped from presentations conducted all over the world.

Do some reasearch into related topics like CIA. JFK. BUSH - BIN LADEN connections just to name a couple of relevent topics.

You people...*Sigh*

I have been to Loose Change, Scholars for Truth, Alex Jone, David Icke's , Truth Movement.org several times already. However if you are interested in truth, you don't watch a video or go to someone's truth website. This should be apparent to any intelligent human being.

It is fine to compare beliefs if you wish to study different movements or belief structures. But if you look at sites who already agree with you then you are only reenforcing what you already believe, not seeking truth.

For example when I wanted to know if a plane crashed into the Pentagon, I simply typed "Boeing" and "pentagon" into google image search and was saturated with plane wreckage photos. I did similar searches for WTC 1 and 2. When I wanted more information I typed in "9-11 eyewitness reports" and got tons of eyewitnesses describing the events of 9-11. When I wanted to find out why NORAD did not respond I looked up records on NORAD and found the last jet liner they intercepted was Payne's Stewarts jet. etc.

However if I came across something I could not explain, I just kept researching until I had an answer or set it aside for later. You DO NOT COME TO THE TRUTH by READING SOMEONE ELSE'S RESEARCH UNLESS THEY GIVE YOU A DETAILED PROCESS OF HOW THEY CAME TO THEIR CONCLUSIONS. I note on almost every TRUTH or official story defender website, there are rarely bibliographies. Popular Mechanics, a website whose name I can't recall but considering the 911 finding inconclusive (consequently my favorite thus far), 9-11 Loose Change Viewer Guide (a response to allegations made by loose change) for example all have extensive bibliographies, the last one even featuring an appendixes and timeline of every mass media and small media coverage of 9-11.

I also note that while Truth movement websites are many, they all say the same thing. The "information" is few and far between and the site functions similar to an infomercial. The site features mostly testimonials from people who are paid to come in and validate their theories. If you've ever been to a court room you'll realize the defense and prosecution always have a scientist there to forward their case.

Same thing here. While my research focuses more on just getting raw info, theirs is to find info to match their theory. Very different.

[FlameHead]

I'm not sure why any of this had to be said or matters.

And for the LAST GODDAMNED TIME, the JFK conspiracy can easily be taken as having nothing to do with 9/11. In YOUR EYES they're the same. In YOUR EYES.

God. People like you make me avoid the truth movement.

First of all, please don't lump me into a group. Just because I'm seeking and talking about Truth doesn't mean I'm associated with any other group. I have my own opinions on the issue which I've formed from months of research.

It just so happens that in my research, JFK and 9/11 link, just like pretty much every other conspiracy that we've seen in our recent history. Not only that, the known obsession in OIL, Corporate Control and the CIA all link as well.

Everyone knows that there's some truth to every conspiracy and if you just follow those truths through history, you'd connect all the dots.

[Super Flight]

Anyone who doesn't believe that the Bush Admin. knew has got their head up their ass.

Exactly :up:

[Dark Vigilante]

For nearly three years now, I've researched both 9/11 conspiracy theories, as well as articles debunking those theories. I first started my research by reading into the conspiracy theories. That a U.S. rocket slammed into the Pentagon instead of a jet, that the WTC towers, as well as WTC 7, were demolished by the use of controled explosives, that United Flight 93 did not crash in Shanksville, PA, and that all of these acts were commited by the U.S. government and subsequently covered up with the facade of Arabic terrorism to create a deep paranoia and fear amongst the American people. A paranoia that can be used to exploit their free will; a fear used to convince Americans to surrender freedom for a false sense of security, to surrender humanity for patriotism, to give the U.S. government and military the mandate to pre-emptively attack and invade soverign nations over secretly reserved greed and corruption at the top levels of our government. This widespread fear and paranoia are not the consequences of an evil and powerful government conspiracy, but the consequences of a tragic and dastardly attack on our nation. The terror that was unleashed on September 11th has made many of us surrender some of our freedom for heightened security, and it has made many of us loyal patriots first, compassionate human beings second. This was the goal of September 11th. It was engineered to create widespread fear amongst our people, to make us question our government and ponder whether we really are the good guys, or in actuallity the root of many of the worlds evils. But it was not engineered by our government. It was engineered by Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda. Its just not possible for the U.S. government to carry this all out, undoubtedly with the use of thousands of people, without letting it leak

This would be the best kept secret in the history of the world. How could the government keep thousands of people that would be invovled in such an immense conspiracy sworn to secrecy. I'm not talking about the higher level officials, but the demolition experts that would have planted the bombs. The firefighters who supposedly cleared the area around WTC 7, knowing it was soon to be demolished by explosives. The structural engineers who examined the rubble of the WTC and falsey wrote reports covering up the fact that they were of a demolished building. What would all these people have to gain? Money? How long can money keep one's mouth closed? Especially the mouths of thouands of normal people? All of these people would rather have a nice pay day then attempt to warn others of what was in the works?

The process of demolishing even a small building takes weeks and weeks to plan, and physically implement, nevermind planning and carrying out the demolition of two of the tallest buildings in the world. That would take months, and even longer to put in motion. The sheer amount of explosives needed to level buildings of this size could not be kept inconspicuous to the thousands of employees and visitors that came in and out of the WTC every day. The amount of phyiscal work that would be required to prepare these explosives could not possibly go unnoticed as well. How could a project this massive be kept completley and utterly silenced?

If a plane didnt crash into the Pentagon, and if a plane didnt crash in Shanksville, then how were the bodies recovered, identified, and given burials by their families? Did the government crash a plane somewhere with the bodies of these passengers just to give their remains some authenticity to support the false official story? It doesn't add up. Why would the thousands of workers invovled in cleaning up the crash site in Shanksville and the Pentagon lie? Was it money again?

If this was all planned and orchestrated by the U.S. government, then it would undoubtedly would have taken years to plan it. This would take thousands of people, from the highest level of government, to thousands in private industry. There is no way that many people could keep this secret. If anyone can find a reliable source with somebody involved in the planning, implementation, or carrying out of the government orchestrated 9-11 attacks admitting to their participation and confessing their knowledge of the conspiracy, please post it.

There is no scientfic hard evidence behind these reasons. It is common sense. Its just not possible. 9-11 was a terrible day, and the consequences of that day have been equally terrible. We need to be very wary of subversion by those wishing to exploit this parnoia to achieve their political goals. There is no doubt in my mind that the Bush Administration has attempted to do this, are still trying, and may have had prior knowledge of an attack but did nothing to prevent it knowing its potential to manipulate the American people. However, this does not mean it was an inside job. While we need to be wary of demogouges in our own government wishing to profit on fear, we also need to be wary of those wishing to spread and inflame this paranoia by spreading unsound and unsupported conspiracy theories for their own profit as well.

[roach]

For nearly three years now, I've researched both 9/11 conspiracy theories, as well as articles debunking those theories. I first started my research by reading into the conspiracy theories. That a U.S. rocket slammed into the Pentagon instead of a jet, that the WTC towers, as well as WTC 7, were demolished by the use of controled explosives, that United Flight 93 did not crash in Shanksville, PA, and that all of these acts were commited by the U.S. government and subsequently covered up with the facade of Arabic terrorism to create a deep paranoia and fear amongst the American people. A paranoia that can be used to exploit their free will; a fear used to convince Americans to surrender freedom for a false sense of security, to surrender humanity for patriotism, to give the U.S. government and military the mandate to pre-emptively attack and invade soverign nations over secretly reserved greed and corruption at the top levels of our government. This widespread fear and paranoia are not the consequences of an evil and powerful government conspiracy, but the consequences of a tragic and dastardly attack on our nation. The terror that was unleashed on September 11th has made many of us surrender some of our freedom for heightened security, and it has made many of us loyal patriots first, compassionate human beings second. This was the goal of September 11th. It was engineered to create widespread fear amongst our people, to make us question our government and ponder whether we really are the good guys, or in actuallity the root of many of the worlds evils. But it was not engineered by our government. It was engineered by Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda. Its just not possible for the U.S. government to carry this all out, undoubtedly with the use of thousands of people, without letting it leak

This would be the best kept secret in the history of the world. How could the government keep thousands of people that would be invovled in such an immense conspiracy sworn to secrecy. I'm not talking about the higher level officials, but the demolition experts that would have planted the bombs. The firefighters who supposedly cleared the area around WTC 7, knowing it was soon to be demolished by explosives. The structural engineers who examined the rubble of the WTC and falsey wrote reports covering up the fact that they were of a demolished building. What would all these people have to gain? Money? How long can money keep one's mouth closed? Especially the mouths of thouands of normal people? All of these people would rather have a nice pay day then attempt to warn others of what was in the works?

The process of demolishing even a small building takes weeks and weeks to plan, and physically implement, nevermind planning and carrying out the demolition of two of the tallest buildings in the world. That would take months, and even longer to put in motion. The sheer amount of explosives needed to level buildings of this size could not be kept inconspicuous to the thousands of employees and visitors that came in and out of the WTC every day. The amount of phyiscal work that would be required to prepare these explosives could not possibly go unnoticed as well. How could a project this massive be kept completley and utterly silenced?

If a plane didnt crash into the Pentagon, and if a plane didnt crash in Shanksville, then how were the bodies recovered, identified, and given burials by their families? Did the government crash a plane somewhere with the bodies of these passengers just to give their remains some authenticity to support the false official story? It doesn't add up. Why would the thousands of workers invovled in cleaning up the crash site in Shanksville and the Pentagon lie? Was it money again?

If this was all planned and orchestrated by the U.S. government, then it would undoubtedly would have taken years to plan it. This would take thousands of people, from the highest level of government, to thousands in private industry. There is no way that many people could keep this secret. If anyone can find a reliable source with somebody involved in the planning, implementation, or carrying out of the government orchestrated 9-11 attacks admitting to their participation and confessing their knowledge of the conspiracy, please post it.

There is no scientfic hard evidence behind these reasons. It is common sense. Its just not possible. 9-11 was a terrible day, and the consequences of that day have been equally terrible. We need to be very wary of subversion by those wishing to exploit this parnoia to achieve their political goals. There is no doubt in my mind that the Bush Administration has attempted to do this, are still trying, and may have had prior knowledge of an attack but did nothing to prevent it knowing its potential to manipulate the American people. However, this does not mean it was an inside job. While we need to be wary of demogouges in our own government wishing to profit on fear, we also need to be wary of those wishing to spread and inflame this paranoia by spreading unsound and unsupported conspiracy theories for their own profit as well.


well said

[TheSumOfGod]

No one here will be convinced of anything. 500 experts could tell TSOG he's wrong, wouldn't matter. 500 experts could tell extromaniac he's wrong, wouldn't matter.

For every expert I find that says jet fuel can't melt steel girders, I can find one who says it can.

I can say it's fishy that Cheney ordered the fighter jets to stand down even though it's normal procedure to scramble within minutes of loss of contact with a plane. Others will say it was a diplomatic decision.

stupid, stupid Sisyphean ball-pushing.

Actually, Sisyphus eventually managed to make that ball stand still at the top of the hill. ;)

[TheSumOfGod]

This guide was written as a companion to the "Loose Change" video that FlameHead and TSOG undoubtebly watch on a daily basis

People like you and your typical false assumptions... I already stated that I never even watched that video.

[TheSumOfGod]

George W. isn't the mastermind behind tying his freaking shoes.
Bush had nothing to do with any of this. Just check his facial expression when he was told about it.

someone such as jag may've characterized it as a "shart face".

Bush is a mentally challenged little puppet. It's the people pulling his strings from behind the scenes that you've got to watch out for. Bush could get a bullet in the head, and the big bad military-industrial complex would just keep on rolling.

[TheSumOfGod]

...This would be the best kept secret in the history of the world. How could the government keep thousands of people that would be invovled in such an immense conspiracy sworn to secrecy...

They couldn't. And they didn't. People have spoken out. The government f***ed up here and there with the planting of evidence and false eyewitness testimony and half-assed cover stories and people noticed. Maybe not YOU, but some people HAVE noticed. :o

[roach]

They couldn't. And they didn't. People have spoken out. The government f***ed up here and there with the planting of evidence and false eyewitness testimony and half-assed cover stories and people noticed. Maybe not YOU, but some people HAVE noticed. :o


no nutcases noticed what they wanted to notice...what he was saying that no one that was apart of this vast government conspiracy has come forward.

[TheSumOfGod]

no, nutcases noticed what they wanted to notice...

That's it, only "nutcases" could have an interpretation of the events and a general perception of reality different from your own. F***ing... I should have followed my own advice, which I gave to FlameHead earlier, and not even have bothered with closed-minded fools like you. I'm done here.

[FlameHead]

Sum, hold on to the fact that you're doing a good thing. As frustrating as these conversations are to have with those who refuse the facts, you're doing a good thing. Having said that, there is only so much you can say to one group of people. It comes to a point where you have to let them figure it out themselves... and they will.

Also, just a reminder: Watch C-Span 1 tonight.

"September 11th Attacks"
C-SPAN 1, 6:10pm, EDT

[roach]

That's it, only "nutcases" could have an interpretation of the events and a general perception of reality different from your own. F***ing... I should have followed my own advice, which I gave to FlameHead earlier, and not even have bothered with closed-minded fools like you. I'm done here.

closeminded...I looked at both sides.....
1) Terrorist hijacked a plane and flew it into the WTC.
2)The US government as part of a massive conspiracy masterminded the attacks as a means to go to war with Iraq.

If the US was gonna use the 9/11 attacks as a spring board to attacking Iraq why didnt they just say the terrorists were Iraqis????

There is just too much conjecture and blind faith to put into the CT version.

[FlameHead]

closeminded...I looked at both sides.....
1) Terrorist hijacked a plane and flew it into the WTC.
2)The US government as part of a massive conspiracy masterminded the attacks as a means to go to war with Iraq.

If the US was gonna use the 9/11 attacks as a spring board to attacking Iraq why didnt they just say the terrorists were Iraqis????

There is just too much conjecture and blind faith to put into the CT version.

You do realize that most of the fingered hijackers were Saudi right? This has nothing to do with both Afganistan or Iraq.... yet the US went to war with them both anyway. Worse, they aren't even looking for the man they say masterminded it anymore.

Also, you're statment should be:

1) 19 folks without much flight experience were able to hijack 4 planes using box cutters and successfully hit 75% of their targets in the greatest military/technological country in the world... and it was all planned in a cave half way accross the world

Or

2) The greatest military/technonlogical country in the world self inflicted a wound in order to continue the fueling of the war machine that has served them so well for so long.

[roach]

You do realize that most of the fingered hijackers were Saudi right? This has nothing to do with both Afganistan or Iraq.... yet the US went to war with them both anyway. Worse, they aren't even looking for the man they say masterminded it anymore.

Also, you're statment should be:

1) 19 folks without much flight experience were able to hijack 4 planes using box cutters and successfully hit 75% of their targets in the greatest military/technological country in the world... and it was all planned in a cave half way accross the world

some of the hijackes did recieve flight training. At the time hijacking protocol was to do what the hijackers tell you. No one ever thought they'd crash it into something.

Or

2) The greatest military/technonlogical country in the world self inflicted a wound in order to continue the fueling of the war machine that has served them so well for so long.

Honestly if we really wanted to go to war with Iraq we didnt need 9/11 to do so. Iraqi military were shooting at our planes as they patroled the no-fly zones on a regular basis. One military shooting at another is an act of war.

[FlameHead]

Invading another country without reason is a WAR CRIME. Lying about that reason is treason.

[roach]

Invading another country without reason is a WAR CRIME. Lying about that reason is treason.


if their military fired upon our that is a very good reason to go to war

and everyone elses intell was saying the same thing

[FlameHead]

Everyone elses intel was saying that an attack on America was coming well before 9/11 and nothing was done about that.

Besides, if that were the case, why in the hell didn't they use that as their reason for invading Iraq? Why did the create extreamly huge lies about WMD's to convince the public and world that the war was needed?

[JLBats]

I have proof that FDR is leading us into a defacto fascist state lead by the Anunnaki power structure, and using Pearl Harbour as his own sort of burning of the Riechstag. We need to put a truth movement together and overthrow FDR.

[roach]

Everyone elses intel was saying that an attack on America was coming well before 9/11 and nothing was done about that.

Besides, if that were the case, why in the hell didn't they use that as their reason for invading Iraq? Why did the create extreamly huge lies about WMD's to convince the public and world that the war was needed?

they created the lies about WMD...I seem to recall Clinton giving a speech about Iraq having WMD's too

[FlameHead]

You can recall all you want. There was no WMD's and it was a blatent lie to get you, the public, to agree or not apose the war. Plain and simple. Worse, they are even lying about what they said now. Ol' Donny Rums has been caught, on video, several times backpeddling and being called out on it.

Look Roach, I know this is hard to accept but, your reality is crumbling and the sooner you snap out of it, the better off you'll be.

[roach]

Everyone elses intel was saying that an attack on America was coming well before 9/11 and nothing was done about that.

Besides, if that were the case, why in the hell didn't they use that as their reason for invading Iraq? Why did the create extreamly huge lies about WMD's to convince the public and world that the war was needed?

our intell did say there was gonna be an attack...we were arrogant....we didnt think any one could touch us...it's part of the horror of 9/11 because we thought we were safe

[roach]

You can recall all you want. There was no WMD's and it was a blatent lie to get you, the public, to agree or not apose the war. Plain and simple. Worse, they are even lying about what they said now. Ol' Donny Rums has been caught, on video, several times backpeddling and being called out on it.

Look Roach, I know this is hard to accept but, your reality is crumbling and the sooner you snap out of it, the better off you'll be.


so if 9/11 was supposed to get us to go to war...why did they need to create a lie about WMD in Iraq.

My reality isnt crumbling.

[FlameHead]

You haven't discovered HALF the horrors of 9/11 yet...

[JLBats]

Look Roach, I know this is hard to accept but, your reality is crumbling and the sooner you snap out of it, the better off you'll be.

I absolutely love how self important you are. I'm sure there were people saying this exact thing when Woodrow sent the troops to Europe. You know what, I bet the sinking of the Lusitania was his Riechstag. Hitler was a copycat:confused::up:

And yet, in none of these cases did the world became an enormous police state. Hmmm.

[roach]

You haven't discovered HALF the horrors of 9/11 yet...

neither have you....:down

[roach]

I absolutely love how self important you are. I'm sure there were people saying this exact thing when Woodrow sent the troops to Europe. You know what, I bet the sinking of the Lusitania was his Riechstag. Hitler was a copycat:confused::up:


because that is all CTs are. People who dont feel important so they feel the need to do something to feel important...like blow the whistle on the government's vast conspiracy

[FlameHead]

There are many innacuracies and strange things about Lusitania as well, yes but, I haven't done much research before the 1940's so, I really don't have room to speak about it.

[roach]

You do realize that most of the fingered hijackers were Saudi right? This has nothing to do with both Afganistan or Iraq.... yet the US went to war with them both anyway. Worse, they aren't even looking for the man they say masterminded it anymore.


just because the CIA isnt looking for him doesnt mean we gave up.....there are several special forces teams in the Afghanistan looking for him

[FlameHead]

because that is all CTs are. People who dont feel important so they feel the need to do something to feel important...like blow the whistle on the government's vast conspiracy

Yes, I'm trying to save the world and hopefully stop WWIII from progessing because I'm selfish and don't feel important. Jesus, you people crack me up.

C-SPAN TUE 6:10PM EDT

Watch it.

[FlameHead]

just because the CIA isnt looking for him doesnt mean we gave up.....there are several special forces teams in the Afghanistan looking for him

Um, NATO has just taken over operations in Afganistan.

[JLBats]

There are many innacuracies and strange things about Lusitania as well, yes but, I haven't done much research before the 1940's so, I really don't have room to speak about it.

What I'm saying is, why weren't any of these other events throughout history followed by a permanent police state?

For that matter, why do the failed attacks never get talked about? The first WTC attack or Operation Bojinka for example? I pretty much guarantee you that had 9/11 failed and either of these succeeded, the ones you'd be hearing talked about with holograms and secret plans would be the ones that succeeded, while 9/11 would fall by the wayside.

For that matter, why do conspiracy theorists spend so much time talking about Mark David Chapman and so little talking about Michael Abram? The difference seems to be minute. They both claimed to be taking direction from a small voice they called "God"... but only one succeeded in killing a Beatle. I find that trend very interesting.

[roach]

Um, NATO has just taken over operations in Afganistan.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ask me how I know

[FlameHead]

9/11 Changed the course of the entire world, that's why so much time is spent on it. 9/11 was photgraphed and videotaped more than any other day in history and therefor, sufficient evidence is available from that alone.

As for the Police State, they are practically making you ask for it instead of outright enforcing it. That's the game folks. It's all a propaganda war and you've all fell for it.

[roach]

Yes, I'm trying to save the world and hopefully stop WWIII from progessing because I'm selfish and don't feel important.

at least you admit it...it's the first step on the road to recovery

[FlameHead]

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ask me how I know

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060801.AFGHANSIDE01/TPStory/TPInternational/Asia/

Or, you know, do a google search.

[roach]

9/11 Changed the course of the entire world, that's why so much time is spent on it. 9/11 was photgraphed and videotaped more than any other day in history and therefor, sufficient evidence is available from that alone.

As for the Police State, they are practically making you ask for it instead of outright enforcing it. That's the game folks. It's all a propaganda war and you've all fell for it.


well maybe if you lived in the US you'd see the state of things here

[roach]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060801.AFGHANSIDE01/TPStory/TPInternational/Asia/

Or, you know, do a google search.


or maybe I am in the military and know some things

[FlameHead]

well maybe if you lived in the US you'd see the state of things here

YOU don't even see the state of things there.

[JLBats]

9/11 Changed the course of the entire world, that's why so much time is spent on it. 9/11 was photgraphed and videotaped more than any other day in history and therefor, sufficient evidence is available from that alone.

As for the Police State, they are practically making you ask for it instead of outright enforcing it. That's the game folks. It's all a propaganda war and you've all fell for it.

Um, you could say very similar things about Pearl Harbour and the sinking of the Lusitania, and the height of the Cold War produced more homegrown fascism than we're seeing right now.

So why did those not result in a police state?

I can guarantee you thirty years from now another attack will happen and this same conversation will take place. Wait and see. You'll see. You'll ALL see.

[JLBats]

YOU don't even see the state of things there.

Um, roach is in the military, FringeWebsiteforBrains.

[FlameHead]

Um, you could say very similar things about Pearl Harbour and the sinking of the Lusitania, and the height of the Cold War produced more homegrown fascism than we're seeing right now.

So why did those not result in a police state?

I can guarantee you thirty years from now another attack will happen and this same conversation will take place. Wait and see. You'll see. You'll ALL see.

Another attack is going to happen LONG before 30 years my friend.

Anyway, I gotta jet. I'm not going to have this conversation with the both of you any longer. I've said what I've had to say to you and there is no point in me continuing.

Ta for now.

[roach]

Um, roach is in the military, FringeWebsiteforBrains.


and according to him I'll be apart of the New World Order...nice.....line up the women folk......

[JLBats]

Another attack is going to happen LONG before 30 years my friend.

Anyway, I gotta jet. I'm not going to have this conversation with the both of you any longer. I've said what I've had to say to you and there is no point in me continuing.

Ta for now.

Um, you still aren't actually adressing any of my arguments.

Thanks a lot. Really. For saying something you keep saying over and over again.

[roach]

Another attack is going to happen LONG before 30 years my friend.

Anyway, I gotta jet. I'm not going to have this conversation with the both of you any longer. I've said what I've had to say to you and there is no point in me continuing.

Ta for now.


the internet messiah quits....awwwww

[JLBats]

the internet messiah quits....awwwww

He's done that ten times over, but he comes back and starts arguing again. It's kind of like musclesforsupes, but more paranoid.

[roach]

He's done that ten times over, but he comes back and starts arguing again. It's kind of like musclesforsupes, but more paranoid.

I cant believe how twisted someone made him

[stryfe]

or maybe I am in the military and know some things

So am I and im calling BS on you.

[roach]

So am I and im calling BS on you.


ok:confused:

[JLBats]

I find it funny that so far stryfe is the only person in the, um, military on these boards who believes this stuff.

I have to call BS ON HIM!

[roach]

So am I and im calling BS on you.

ok give me rank and what you do

[stryfe]

ok:confused:


Your acting like you have some kind of inside track information. Your more then Likely a friggin Pfc. straight out of AIT. Or should we start calling you Gen. Roach :down. 90% of military people dont even know what the hell is going on and I highly doubt your in the 10%.

[stryfe]

ok give me rank and what you do


Yeah cause thats professional. I think you need to go back to boot to remember your in the military and shouldnt give out that kind of information over the internet.

[roach]

Yeah cause thats professional. I think you need to go back to boot to remember your in the military and shouldnt give out that kind of information over the internet.

first of all I didnt ask you to give out sensative information...and no one calls it "Boot"

[stryfe]

I find it funny that so far stryfe is the only person in the, um, military on these boards who believes this stuff.

I have to call BS ON HIM!


2 things.

I could care less if you believe im military or not.

Im not the only one who believes these things.

[roach]

Your acting like you have some kind of inside track information. Your more then Likely a friggin Pfc. straight out of AIT. Or should we start calling you Gen. Roach :down. 90% of military people dont even know what the hell is going on and I highly doubt your in the 10%.


just because you dont know doesnt mean I dont know

[stryfe]

first of all I didnt ask you to give out sensative information...and no one calls it "Boot"


Theres lots of names out there for different branches. Remaining as vague as possible about which branch your in, what rank you are and what job you do is always a good idea. Thats what I was doing.

[FlameHead]

Yes, I'm back.... but only for a second.

2 things.

I could care less if you believe im military or not.

Im not the only one who believes these things.

I'm not sure exactly what you believe but, I suspect you have suspicions on 9/11, which is why you're here. If so, no, you are definitely not the only one who believes these things. There are millions of us and more are waking up every day.

C-Span 1, TONIGHT, 6:10PM

Watch it

[roach]

Theres lots of names out there for different branches. Remaining as vague as possible about which branch your in, what rank you are and what job you do is always a good idea. Thats what I was doing.

riiiiight:down

[jks]

2 things.

I could care less if you believe im military or not.

Im not the only one who believes these things.If you don't care, then just answer his question. What branch and what's your rank/job.

[stryfe]

just because you dont know doesnt mean I dont know

Good argument. Ill end this now and let you go back to pretending your some mighty important military figure. :down

[stryfe]

riiiiight:down


Im sorry they dont teach that to unimportant people, just people who actually need security. My apologies.

[jks]

Theres lots of names out there for different branches. Remaining as vague as possible about which branch your in, what rank you are and what job you do is always a good idea. Thats what I was doing.ssgt, USAF, security forces. See how easy that was? You try.

[roach]

Im sorry they dont teach that to unimportant people, just people who actually need security. My apologies.

what are you supposed to tell when you get captured

[roach]

ssgt, USAF, security forces. See how easy that was? You try.


E-6,First Class Petty Officer, USN, In charge of Mobilization(this is the important part)

[FlameHead]

Video of the Day:

TerrorStorm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3710767957407328313

[JLBats]

Video of the Day:

TerrorStorm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3710767957407328313

Why is every post you make irrelevent to the current conversation?

And I thought you were leaving:confused:

[jks]

E-6,First Class Petty Officer, USN, In charge of Mobilization(this is the important part)Thanks for serving. I've been out for a few years and took a civilian law enforcement job.


Oh, E-5

[stryfe]

ssgt, USAF, security forces. See how easy that was? You try.


Way to set an example Ssgt. Both of you should realize what your doing and quit now. Views on matters is one thing, giving away any sort of relevent information is another. Im ending this now so it does not escalate.

[JLBats]

Way to set an example Ssgt. Both of you should realize what your doing and quit now. Views on matters is one thing, giving away any sort of relevent information is another. Im ending this now so it does not escalate.

lol, good try, though.

[jks]

Way to set an example Ssgt. Both of you should realize what your doing and quit now. Views on matters is one thing, giving away any sort of relevent information is another. Im ending this now so it does not escalate.lmfao, the guy who ran the liquor store I would go to knew what I did, and I'll be damned if there was no national security risk because of it. Just end this before you embarrass yourself further. You are obviously talking out your ass.

[Demon Within]

lmfao, the guy who ran the liquor store I would go to knew what I did, and I'll be damned if there was no national security risk because of it. Just end this before you embarrass yourself further. You are obviously talking out your ass.

Interesting because I was SF as well and remember how much they preached about opsec/comsec. Clearly you dont rmember those briefings. Even some SF troops working specific jobs can get in big trouble giving away what type of job they do. Maybe every military person should step away.

[JLBats]

To sum up:

What I'm saying is, why weren't any of these other events throughout history followed by a permanent police state?

For that matter, why do the failed attacks never get talked about? The first WTC attack or Operation Bojinka for example? I pretty much guarantee you that had 9/11 failed and either of these succeeded, the ones you'd be hearing talked about with holograms and secret plans would be the ones that succeeded, while 9/11 would fall by the wayside.

For that matter, why do conspiracy theorists spend so much time talking about Mark David Chapman and so little talking about Michael Abram? The difference seems to be minute. They both claimed to be taking direction from a small voice they called "God"... but only one succeeded in killing a Beatle. I find that trend very interesting.

[FlameHead]

9/11 - Bush blocks FBI from Investigating Al-Qaeda - W-199-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svgQ6ISM7_A

[JLBats]

9/11 - Bush blocks FBI from Investigating Al-Qaeda - W-199-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svgQ6ISM7_A

Thanks again...

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Quit ****ting on everyone's face.

[JLBats]

Quit ****ting on everyone's face.


Meh.

* ****s on Wilhelm's face*

[Demon Within]

Meh.

* ****s on Wilhelm's face*

Maybe this thread should be closed. Its clear you want to dominate it and and start arguments with anyone whos views differ from yours.

[JLBats]

Maybe this thread should be closed. Its clear you want to dominate it and and start arguments with anyone whos views differ from yours.


Um, no, I'm not sure how you got that idea. Thanks anyway. If FlameHead would just respond directly to the questions I've asked, I would gladly leave.

Not only that, but I find it amazing that I'm the one who is considered to have started an argument here. Wilhelm told me to stop ****ting on people, and I responded. Hardly the behaviour of someone out to start a massive flame war.

Nice try at stifling the opinions of those who disagree with you however.

*ker-shrug*

[FlameHead]

I think it's more important that people are able to express their views than close it due to one persons lack of respect.

[FlameHead]

Um, no, I'm not sure how you got that idea. Thanks anyway. If FlameHead would just respond directly to the questions I've asked, I would gladly leave.

Not only that, but I find it amazing that I'm the one who is considered to have started an argument here. Wilhelm told me to stop ****ting on people, and I responded. Hardly the behaviour of someone out to start a massive flame war.

Nice try at stifling the opinions of those who disagree with you however.

*ker-shrug*

I'll respond to you again when you start watching the videos I post or at least READING what I talk about.

[JLBats]

I'll respond to you again when you start watching the videos I post or at least READING what I talk about.

And I'll do that when you stop posting random videos and start addressing the concerned denizens of the crowded theatre in which you are crying "Fire!" Thanks.

[Demon Within]

Um, no, I'm not sure how you got that idea. Thanks anyway. If FlameHead would just respond directly to the questions I've asked, I would gladly leave.

Not only that, but I find it amazing that I'm the one who is considered to have started an argument here. Wilhelm told me to stop ****ting on people, and I responded. Hardly the behaviour of someone out to start a massive flame war.

Nice try at stifling the opinions of those who disagree with you however.

*ker-shrug*

I fail to see how I did that. I havent stated I agree or disagree with anything posted so far, im pointing out that YOU have been the aggressor in this thread and harshly put down anyone who does not see it your way. I think that is what Scream was reffering too.

[FlameHead]

And I'll do that when you stop posting random videos and start addressing the concerned denizens of the crowded theatre in which you are crying "Fire!" Thanks.

If you were concerned, you'd watch the videos. That's the problem with you people, you wont even look at the evidence before refuting it.

[JLBats]

I fail to see how I did that. I havent stated I agree or disagree with anything posted so far, im pointing out that YOU have been the aggressor in this thread and harshly put down anyone who does not see it your way. I think that is what Scream was reffering too.

I think what Wilhelm is refering to is last night, when he suggested I have a scat fetish.

Thanks for being informed:down

[Demon Within]

And I'll do that when you stop posting random videos and start addressing the concerned denizens of the crowded theatre in which you are crying "Fire!" Thanks.

Random videos? I see videos he thinks help his point. So far what iv read from you are "hes not right dont listen to him hes crazy" with really nothing to back YOUR point. Instead of being a dick why not throw out some of your own videos, like a counter point.

[JLBats]

If you were concerned, you'd watch the videos. That's the problem with you people, you wont even look at the evidence before refuting it.

Um, did you even read my question?

The videos you post over and over have been watched. Don't worry about that. The questions I've asked have little to do with those videos, and they were asked several pages ago and ignored.

[FlameHead]

Um, did you even read my question?

The videos you post over and over have been watched. Don't worry about that. The questions I've asked have little to do with those videos, and they were asked several pages ago and ignored.

Perhaps I didn't see the questions. If you post them again, I'll certainly take the time to answer then, provided I have the time before my brother picks me up.

While you're getting those, I have a question for you: How do you feel about W199-I?

[JLBats]

Random videos? I see videos he thinks help his point. So far what iv read from you are "hes not right dont listen to him hes crazy" with really nothing to back YOUR point. Instead of being a dick why not throw out some of your own videos, like a counter point.

Videos with creepy music can be used to influence any point. It's an old propaganda technique. For a good example of videos like this that pointed out hard facts about something and were proved to be supporting an utterly false scenario, see eon8.

And I see no need to watch the videos. I've seen them and many like them over and over again. I just came into the thread to ask a simple question, and I recieved no answer.

Not only that, but I'm on your side, geniuses. I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy too.

Keep it up:rolleyes::up:

[JLBats]

Perhaps I didn't see the questions. If you post them again, I'll certainly take the time to answer then, provided I have the time before my brother picks me up.

While you're getting those, I have a question for you: How do you feel about W199-I?

No strong feelings either way at the moment, thanks:confused:

[JLBats]

Perhaps I didn't see the questions. If you post them again, I'll certainly take the time to answer then, provided I have the time before my brother picks me up.

While you're getting those, I have a question for you: How do you feel about W199-I?

No strong feelings either way at the moment, thanks:confused:

And I've already reposted the questions and comments. You can look a page back for them.

[FlameHead]

No strong feelings either way at the moment, thanks:confused:

That's because I don't believe you even watched it. It's less than 5 minutes and isn't some piece of propaganda with creepy music.

W199-I was passed by Bush stating that anyone trying to stop Al-Qaeda would be arrested under National Security implications. This was passed in January of 2001.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Wilhelm-Scream/HYPE/funshine2.jpg

[JLBats]

That's because I don't believe you even watched it. It's less than 5 minutes and isn't some piece of propaganda with creepy music.

W199-I was passed by Bush stating that anyone trying to stop Al-Qaeda would be arrested under National Security implications. This was passed in January of 2001.

No, I haven't watched several of the videos you've posted on the past few pages of this thread. I don't feel the need. I already believe what you believe, but without the world ending doom.

[Demon Within]

Videos with creepy music can be used to influence any point. It's an old propaganda technique. For a good example of videos like this that pointed out hard facts about something and were proved to be supporting an utterly false scenario, see eon8.

And I see no need to watch the videos. I've seen them and many like them over and over again. I just came into the thread to ask a simple question, and I recieved no answer.

Not only that, but I'm on your side, geniuses. I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy too.

Keep it up:rolleyes::up:

Again I havent chosen a side. I love they way you lump everything into on broad catagory The "youve seen it once youve seen it all" cliche. Makes everything so much easier to judge.

[FlameHead]

No, I haven't watched several of the videos you've posted on the past few pages of this thread. I don't feel the need. I already believe what you believe, but without the world ending doom.

Okay. Fine. But, you have to understand that a lot of what I'm talking about isn't just 9/11 and the Governments involvement. It's the clear indication that a Global Government is emerging. It's not so much about the world ending doom though, it just so happens that the Global Government that is emerging is obsessed with the money generated from War.

It's also about doing everything possible to stop the progess of WWIII.

[Demon Within]

Okay. Fine. But, you have to understand that a lot of what I'm talking about isn't just 9/11 and the Governments involvement. It's the clear indication that a Global Government is emerging. It's not so much about the world ending doom though, it just so happens that the Global Government that is emerging is obsessed with the money generated from War.

It's also about doing everything possible to stop the progess of WWIII.

Why shouldnt there be a global governement? I dont see how that is necessarily a bad thing.

[JLBats]

Again I havent chosen a side. I love they way you lump everything into on broad catagory The "youve seen it once youve seen it all" cliche. Makes everything so much easier to judge.

Apparently you can't even come into a thread to ask a question without watching every video posted in the thread. And when everyone dodges your question, oh boy, you better be ready to get a bunch of "You didn't even watch the videos!! Feeewg!"s.:confused:

[FlameHead]

Again I havent chosen a side. I love they way you lump everything into on broad catagory The "youve seen it once youve seen it all" cliche. Makes everything so much easier to judge.

Demon, you're extreme openess is greatly appreciated.

It's not about choosing sides though. It's about doing what's right for your country, your world and humanity. Me, I firmly believe that the information I'm sharing is right for all three and a necessary topic to discuss and furthermore, get those in power to discuss.

[JLBats]

Okay. Fine. But, you have to understand that a lot of what I'm talking about isn't just 9/11 and the Governments involvement. It's the clear indication that a Global Government is emerging. It's not so much about the world ending doom though, it just so happens that the Global Government that is emerging is obsessed with the money generated from War.

It's also about doing everything possible to stop the progess of WWIII.

Um, which is exactly what all my questioning was about, which is why I'm extremely pissed off it was dodged.

[FlameHead]

Why shouldnt there be a global governement? I dont see how that is necessarily a bad thing.

I thought about that as well but, then realized that one system of governance would take away everything that's great about this world: it's diversity. Besides, when the Global Government is obessed with the money generated from war, I want no part of it.

[FlameHead]

Um, which is exactly what all my questioning was about, which is why I'm extremely pissed off it was dodged.

I'm not going back through the thread seeking your questions JL. Please post it again.

[Demon Within]

I thought about that as well but, then realized that one system of governance would take away everything that's great about this world: it's diversity. Besides, when the Global Government is obessed with the money generated from war, I want no part of it.

If it was a global government would they not be starting a war with themselves? One governing body does not mean diversity is lost it means all of mans money is equal. No country struggles because of poor economies while the other lives the life of luxery. All laws apply to everyone worldwide.

[JLBats]

Um, you could say very similar things about Pearl Harbour and the sinking of the Lusitania, and the height of the Cold War produced more homegrown fascism than we're seeing right now.

So why did those not result in a police state?


What I'm saying is, why weren't any of these other events throughout history followed by a permanent police state?

For that matter, why do the failed attacks never get talked about? The first WTC attack or Operation Bojinka for example? I pretty much guarantee you that had 9/11 failed and either of these succeeded, the ones you'd be hearing talked about with holograms and secret plans would be the ones that succeeded, while 9/11 would fall by the wayside.


For that matter, why do conspiracy theorists spend so much time talking about Mark David Chapman and so little talking about Michael Abram? The difference seems to be minute. They both claimed to be taking direction from a small voice they called "God"... but only one succeeded in killing a Beatle. I find that trend very interesting.



I absolutely love how self important you are. I'm sure there were people saying this exact thing when Woodrow sent the troops to Europe. You know what, I bet the sinking of the Lusitania was his Riechstag. Hitler was a copycat

And yet, in none of these cases did the world became an enormous police state.


Basically, my point is, what makes this point in history different from the others? The criticisms you fling at Bush are criticisms that apply to almost any president who was involved in a war. Hell, Trudeau declared martial law over less. So why is it that now, when the same thing happens with much less extreme results, you claim it is leading to something worse than ever? Doesn't that seem incredibly self-important and historically short-sighted? At what point do we just chalk this "Oncoming WWIII, Police state!" business up to Internet induced paranoia?

[FlameHead]

If it was a global government would they not be starting a war with themselves? One governing body does not mean diversity is lost it means all of mans money is equal. No country struggles because of poor economies while the other lives the life of luxery. All laws apply to everyone worldwide.

Which it could be anyway if certain governments weren't so obsessed with such things as Oil. The Middle East would not be in the mess it is now without US involvment and if they were left to run their Countries themselves.

Then you have to conider what laws would be applying to everyone? Would it be China's laws? Would it be a Dictatorship or a Democracy? I mean, the thought of a worldwide dictatorship is incredibly scary.

You also have to consider the fact that the same central banking system (which is the Global Government at this point) funded enemies during the time of Nazi's. Both the US and Hitler were funded by the same group and why? Well because that central banking system has secured a win/win situation in that case.

It should also be noted at this time that Grandpappy Bush was in charge of that funding....

[FlameHead]

Basically, my point is, what makes this point in history different from the others? The criticisms you fling at Bush are criticisms that apply to almost any president who was involved in a war. Hell, Trudeau declared martial law over less. So why is it that now, when the same thing happens with much less extreme results, you claim it is leading to something worse than ever? Doesn't that seem incredibly self-important and historically short-sighted? At what point do we just chalk this "Oncoming WWIII, Police state!" business up to Internet induced paranoia?

I answered these questions a while back. It takes much more to form a country wide Police State these days. There's a lot of wheelin' and dealin' that has to go on, especially when you consider that's it's a force within a Government that's making it happen.

I'll expand on that later because my brother just called and is on his way.

Take care folks. Be safe.

[roach]

Way to set an example Ssgt. Both of you should realize what your doing and quit now. Views on matters is one thing, giving away any sort of relevent information is another. Im ending this now so it does not escalate.


what was given away that was so damaging. I told you my rank and service..that anyone would know by looking at my uniform. I told you what I did in the broadest of terms. How did I break Opsec?????

[JLBats]

I answered these questions a while back. It takes much more to form a country wide Police State these days. There's a lot of wheelin' and dealin' that has to go on, especially when you consider that's it's a force within a Government that's making it happen.


That actually proves my point more than anthing.

[roach]

I answered these questions a while back. It takes much more to form a country wide Police State these days. There's a lot of wheelin' and dealin' that has to go on, especially when you consider that's it's a force within a Government that's making it happen.

I'll expand on that later because my brother just called and is on his way.

Take care folks. Be safe.

wow...that..didnt...even..answer the question

[roach]

That actually proves my point more than anthing.

if it was easier back then to form a police state than now...why didnt one form back then???????

[JLBats]

wow...that..didnt...even..answer the question

I even went back and searched through the thread. His answers to my questions were always vague and evasive. I'm starting to think he just doesn't understand the comparison I'm making.

[JLBats]

if it was easier back then to form a police state than now...why didnt one form back then???????

Because there was no Internet back then to induce extreme paranoia.

[roach]

Because there was no Internet back then to induce extreme paranoia.

what the deuce??????
You mean this is all internet paranoia

[JLBats]

what the deuce??????
You mean this is all internet paranoia

I've said many times, I think many of the more overblown notions regarding 9/11 (holograms and rockets for no apparent reason) are caused by a sort of Internet paranoia.

I think it's the Internet. It's weird, because when you're alone in your basement typing, crazy thoughts become sane thoughts, and shaky evidence found on fringe websites become the only things you can trust.

It's weird, because for weeks I'll lie awake at night thinking "What if this **** is true?" Then I'll go out to a party and suddenly those thoughts, those stupid, completely fanciful moronic thoughts you've been giving credence to because of fringe websites, those thoughts that seemed terribly important while you were sitting at your computer typing... suddenly seem utterly stupid, irrelevent and childish when you'rel living your life.

It's sort of like that Eon8 countdown clock online experiment, where the web designer discovered that people online reacted to a lack of information by searching for every clue that could possibly make the website something sinister... Some people thought the clock was counting down to the release of a new online virus, others thought it was counting down to a world wide terrorist attack... Hell, some people thought it was counting down to a massive alien invasion or apocalypse.

But in the end, it turned out to be the most utterly mundane answer: Some schmoe in his basement with a degree in web design made the site to see how people online would react. All of the iconography found on the site turned out to be coincidental. The vague sense of menace turned out to be manufactured by a paranoid Internet populace. The web designer who created the site said it best: We cannot allow empty paranoia and manufactured menace to run our lives. We cannot indict a government on suspicion and fringe websites. And ultimately, in what I consider the most apt metaphor for the whole conspiracism worldview, we cannot suspect the apocalypse when it is ultimately just some schmoe in his basement with a degree in web design.

"To me, a mark of maturity is realizing that nobody runs the world. Fat-cat politicians and secret conspiracies don’t control our lives. In reality, the world is much more complex than that. The people who seem to have a lock on power get swept out in a couple of years. So it’s naïve to keep swinging at the same targets over and over. It took me a long time to realize, but most of the shackles that I flailed against were just illusory."-George Meyer

[Super Flight]

good afternoon

[roach]

I've said many times, I think many of the more overblown notions regarding 9/11 (holograms and rockets for no apparent reason) are caused by a sort of Internet paranoia.

how'd I miss that...that has to be the best post in this thread period

[lazur]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would be $6 to "see the light". Why is someone charging for "the truth"??

And that info site is too complex. Give me some SPECIFIC LINKS to ACTUAL EVIDENCE - not someone ELSE'S speculation and "thoughts" on the matter.

Thanks.

[roach]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would be $6 to "see the light". Why is someone charging for "the truth"??

And that info site is too complex. Give me some SPECIFIC LINKS to ACTUAL EVIDENCE - not someone ELSE'S speculation and "thoughts" on the matter.

Thanks.

because the truth costs....6$ a pop

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I'll go across the street and see how much Bibles cost after lunch.

[ShadowBoxing]

Way to set an example Ssgt. Both of you should realize what your doing and quit now. Views on matters is one thing, giving away any sort of relevent information is another. Im ending this now so it does not escalate.Umm no one on here knows their real names, lol. nice dodge though.

[JLBats]

I'll go across the street and see how much Bibles cost after lunch.

I just steal them from Hotels.

[ShadowBoxing]

I'll go across the street and see how much Bibles cost after lunch.Yeah, but apparently you get Jesus' Love with every purchase, so it's more valuable.

[TheSumOfGod]

closeminded...I looked at both sides.....
1) Terrorist hijacked a plane and flew it into the WTC.
2)The US government as part of a massive conspiracy masterminded the attacks as a means to go to war with Iraq.

If the US was gonna use the 9/11 attacks as a spring board to attacking Iraq why didnt they just say the terrorists were Iraqis????

There is just too much conjecture and blind faith to put into the CT version.

(Can't believe I'm getting back into this) For the zillionth time, IT WASN'T ABOUT OIL, IT WASN'T ABOUT IRAQ! It was about the perpetual "WAR ON TERROR", you know, the $300 BILLION+ gift from heaven to the American military-industrial complex that just keeps on giving? And it was about establishing an American military presence throughout ALL of the Middle-East once and for all, by getting rid of all these pesky "rogue nations" over there. And let's not forget about increasing the power of the American government over it's people, keeping them in a constant state of fear, fear of sudden, violent death. That's worth 3,000 lives and then some to the greedy, power-hungry sociopaths running the show.

[roach]

(Can't believe I'm getting back into this) For the zillionth time, IT WASN'T ABOUT OIL, IT WASN'T ABOUT IRAQ! It was about the perpetual "WAR ON TERROR", you know, the $300 BILLION+ gift from heaven to the American military-industrial complex that just keeps on giving? And it was about establishing an American military presence throughout ALL of the Middle-East once and for all, by getting rid of all these pesky "rogue nations" over there. And let's not forget about increasing the power of the American government over it's people, keeping them in a constant state of fear, fear of sudden, violent death. That's worth 3,000 lives and then some to the greedy, power-hungry sociopaths running the show.


you all need to get on the same page...FlameHead said it was for oil

[Jester J]

I'll go across the street and see how much Bibles cost after lunch.

The Gideons will give you one, they give out thousands a year

[roach]

Umm no one on here knows their real names, lol. nice dodge though.

I thought it was nice too

[TheSumOfGod]

To sum up:

What I'm saying is, why weren't any of these other events throughout history followed by a permanent police state?

It was impossible to do so at the time. The world was too big. Nowadays, with global telecommunications, the world has gotten smaller. America has soldiers and influence practically everywhere on Earth now. People in general have also become extremely ignorant and extremely lazy. Democracy is falling asleep at the switch, and the fascists are coming out of the woodwork.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The Gideons will give you one, they give out thousands a yearI haven't seen a Gideon in 20 years.

[roach]

It was impossible to do so at the time. The world was too big. Nowadays, with global telecommunications, the world has gotten smaller. America has soldiers and influence practically everywhere on Earth now. People in general have also become extremely ignorant and extremely lazy. Democracy is falling asleep at the switch, and the fascists are coming out of the woodwork.


But he...just...said...it was easier back then.....do you guys even talk????
Who is missing their weekly nutty meetings?????

[roach]

I haven't seen a Gideon in 20 years.

that is their way...to remain hidden until it is too late

[TheSumOfGod]

Not only that, but I'm on your side, geniuses. I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy too.

Wow. With friends like you, who needs enemies. Reminds me of when lazur says that he's NOT a "Bush-supporter", that he even voted for Clinton twice. lol :rolleyes:

[JLBats]

Wow. With friends like you, who needs enemies. Reminds me of when lazur says that he's NOT a "Bush-supporter", that he even voted for Clinton twice. lol :rolleyes:

You can believe in the conspiracy without believing in the utterly vapid things that have been added on to it by sensationalists. Thanks for proving yet again that your worldview is as black and white as any Conservative you criticise.

[roach]

Wow. With friends like you, who needs enemies. Reminds me of when lazur says that he's NOT a "Bush-supporter", that he even voted for Clinton twice. lol :rolleyes:


you claim that we are closed minded but can you even for an instant entertain the notion that it wasnt the US government?????

[TheSumOfGod]

Why shouldnt there be a global governement? I dont see how that is necessarily a bad thing.

It's a bad thing if the people in charge of this global government don't give a s**t about human life and only care about staying in charge no matter what.

[ShadowBoxing]

(Can't believe I'm getting back into this) For the zillionth time, IT WASN'T ABOUT OIL, IT WASN'T ABOUT IRAQ! It was about the perpetual "WAR ON TERROR", you know, the $300 BILLION+ gift from heaven to the American military-industrial complex that just keeps on giving? And it was about establishing an American military presence throughout ALL of the Middle-East once and for all, by getting rid of all these pesky "rogue nations" over there. And let's not forget about increasing the power of the American government over it's people, keeping them in a constant state of fear, fear of sudden, violent death. That's worth 3,000 lives and then some to the greedy, power-hungry sociopaths running the show.

Right the PNAC document that was released in response to Clinton's military budget cuts.

I actually bothered to read the document recently.

To preserve American military preeminence in the coming decades, the Department of Defense must move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts, and seek to exploit the emerging revolution in military affairs. Information technologies, in particular, are becoming more prevalent and significant components of modern military systems. These information technologies are having the same kind of transforming effects on military affairs as they are having in the larger world. The effects of this military transformation will have profound implications for how wars are fought, what kinds of weapons will dominate the battlefield and, inevitably, which nations enjoy military preeminence. The United States enjoys every prospect of leading this transformation. Indeed, it was the improvements in capabilities acquired during the American defense buildup of the 1980s that hinted at and then confirmed, during Operation Desert Storm, that a revolution in military affairs was at hand. At the same time, the process of military transformation will present opportunities for America's adversaries to develop new capabilities that in turn will create new challenges for U.S. military preeminence.

Moreover, the Pentagon, constrained by limited budgets and pressing current missions, has seen funding for experimentation and transformation crowded out in recent years. Spending on military research and development has been reduced dramatically over the past decade. Indeed, during the mid-1980's, when the Defense Department was in the midst of the Reagan buildup which was primarily an effort to expand existing forces and field traditional weapons systems, research spending represented 20 percent of total Pentagon budgets. By contrast, today's research and development accounts total only 8 percent of defense spending. And even this reduced total is primarily for upgrades of current weapons. Without increased spending on basic research and development the United States will be unable to exploit the RMA and preserve its technological edge on future battlefields.

Any serious effort at transformation must occur within the larger framework of U.S. national security strategy, military missions and defense budgets. The United States cannot simply declare a "strategic pause" while experimenting with new technologies and operational concepts. Nor can it choose to pursue a transformation strategy that would decouple American and allied interests. A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies.

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. A decision to suspend or terminate aircraft carrier production, as recommended by this report and as justified by the clear direction of military technology, will cause great upheaval.- the J Likewise, systems entering production today - the F-22 fighter, for example - will be in service inventories for decades to come. Wise management of this process will consist in large measure of figuring out the right moments to halt production of current-paradigm weapons and shift to radically new designs. The expense associated with some programs can make them roadblocks to the larger process of transformation .Joint Strike Fighter program, at a total of approximately $200 billion, seems an unwise investment. Thus, this report advocates a two-stage process of change - transition and transformation - over the coming decades.

Now There is more to the document, in fact it is quiet long, but I thought this gives enough context to work with. Basically to sum up the document in full, it is a R&D request not a manufacturing request. Basically they don't want old technologies (though upgrades would be favorable), they want newly manufactured technologies that will have profound implications for how wars are fought and will prepare us for future battles.

Now if this were a manufacture request I'd say the conspiracist were on to something, but it is not. It is an R&D request. And what is the last thing you want when requesting R&D; for that R&D money to instead be funnelled into a costly and primative guerilla war against insurgencies.

It costs money to wage a war, money that could be instead used to fund the process of transformation especially if it is likely to be a long one.

Another point worth bringing up, especially with some military persons present is how Runsfeld was criticized for not providing upgrades and new technologies. Suggesting that this R&D request was either put on hold or totally ignored by the time the war started.

[TheSumOfGod]

But he...just...said...it was easier back then.....do you guys even talk????
Who is missing their weekly nutty meetings?????

We're not clones, dubmass. It's not because we may agree on a few things that we think alike all of the time. And I'm talking about a global police state here, not just in America.

[roach]

We're not clones, dubmass. It's not because we may agree on a few things that we think alike all of the time. And I'm talking about a global police state here, not just in America.

hey I am arguing his points and then you come in arguing my points about his points....He is saying one thing and you are saying another. It has nothing to do with being a clone and everything to do with you guys just grabbing at straws to make yourselves sound important

[TheSumOfGod]

you claim that we are closed minded but can you even for an instant entertain the notion that it wasnt the US government?????

I considered that possibility. Some people think it was the state of Israel and Mossad. Some people think it was the Brotherhood of the Illuminati. It just seems obvious to me, after having reviewed all of the evidence from both sides, that the American government itself was directly responsible. Not merely the Bush administration, but the more influential members of the military-industrial complex as well.

[DOG LIPS]

Keep it civil, guys. Some of you are starting up with the childish name-calling.

[ShadowBoxing]

I considered that possibility. Some people think it was the state of Israel and Mossad. Some people think it was the Brotherhood of the Illuminati. It just seems obvious to me, after having reviewed all of the evidence from both sides, that the American government itself was directly responsible. Not merely the Bush administration, but the more influential members of the military-industrial complex as well.That is a very dangerous word.

[roach]

I considered that possibility. Some people think it was the state of Israel and Mossad. Some people think it was the Brotherhood of the Illuminati. It just seems obvious to me, after having reviewed all of the evidence from both sides, that the American government itself was directly responsible. Not merely the Bush administration, but the more influential members of the military-industrial complex as well.

could you entertain the notion that Bin Laden and his Al Queada caused 9/11?????

[TheSumOfGod]

hey I am arguing his points and then you come in arguing my points about his points....He is saying one thing and you are saying another. It has nothing to do with being a clone and everything to do with you guys just grabbing at straws to make yourselves sound important

We each have our own interpretation of the facts. As does the American government. You should realize that the "official" version of the story is not "the truth", it's merely the American government's supposed interpretation of the facts (or rather, of the facts that they prefer to take into account).

[roach]

We each have our own interpretation of the facts. As does the American government. You should realize that the "official" version of the story is not "the truth", it's merely the American government's supposed interpretation of the facts (or rather, of the facts that they prefer to take into account).

so should I trust your "unbiased"view of the facts or Flame-heads???
Should I trust some guy who has a bone to pick with the Republican Party or my own????
Do I dismiss your views or the Governments?????

[THWIP*]

Okay I have seen a lot of people here post who dont want to know the truth and who refuse to take the blinders off and and acknowledge that 9-11 was indeed an inside job hatched by our own government and that George Bush had prior knowledge it would indeed happen,allowed it to happen and did NOTHING to try and stop it.The CIA trained the terrorists into hijacking the plane,Bush was warned by FBI agents it was going to happen but threatened them with arrest if they tried to stop it.Attorney General John Ashcroft told David Schippers a chicago based lawyer to go away when he told him he had FBI agents that had evidence they knew it was going to happen.They were banging on his door begging him to take a look at it and he did not want to listen.People around here though have turned a blind eye to all that though despite the fact alec Jones has documented in his two great videos he has that its all true with 9-11 the road to tyranny and Martial Law and the fact that he has a section on his website called prior knowledge that documents George Bushs knowledge it was going to happen at www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com) well here is ANOTHER website that has overwhelming proof that Bush had prior knowledge that it would happen and debunks you naysayers who refuse to listen to the truth on this issue.Just go to www.johnkaminski.com (http://www.johnkaminski.com) and order his book for just $6.00 called The Day America Died.

yes folks it WAS staged by our own government and Bush DID know it was going to happen and wanted it to happen.Bush,Clinton,and the CIA,they're all in on it together.They have been long time buddies and pals with each other and both have CIA connections.



FINDING A PERIOD IN THAT POST, IS LIKE SEARCHING FOR WALDO. :confused: :o

[TheSumOfGod]

could you entertain the notion that Bin Laden and his Al Queada caused 9/11?????

They certainly WANTED to do it, his men were here in America precisely with the intention to do it, but they lacked the means and the professionalism to see it through. The FBI (among others) were keeping a close eye on them since day one, and despite repeated warnings, did nothing to stop them. Bin Laden's men were used as scapegoats, and I have no doubt that Bin laden himself is absolutely convinced that he is the one responsible for the attacks. And some of the supposed 19 hijackers are still alive and well and living in Saudi Arabia according to the BBC. So...

[TheSumOfGod]

so should I trust your "unbiased"view of the facts or Flame-heads???
Should I trust some guy who has a bone to pick with the Republican Party or my own????
Do I dismiss your views or the Governments?????

I don't want you to "trust" or "believe" me. Do your own research, keep an open mind, think for yourself, and nevermind that many will call you a "retard" or a "lunatic" if you come to the same conclusions that I have.

[AllThingsComic]

I'm a late comer, but did anyone catch CSPAN Saturday at 8:00. Like I said, i'm a late comer so if this was discussed or is being discussed I apologize. Interesting and scary stuff.

[roach]

They certainly WANTED to do it, his men were here in America precisely with the intention to do it, but they lacked the means and the professionalism to see it through. The FBI (among others) were keeping a close eye on them since day one, and despite repeated warnings, did nothing to stop them. Bin Laden's men were used as scapegoats, and I have no doubt that Bin laden himself is absolutely convinced that he is the one responsible for the attacks. And some of the supposed 19 hijackers are still alive and well and living in Saudi Arabia according to the BBC. So...

and I read somewhere saying that the BBC report was incorrect...infact they came out and said it was incorrect

[JLBats]

I'm not sure why SumofGod hasn't responded to ShadowBoxing yet.

[roach]

I don't want you to "trust" or "believe" me. Do your own research, keep an open mind, think for yourself, and nevermind that many will call you a "retard" or a "lunatic" if you come to the same conclusions that I have.

and how do you know I havent already looked into it and came to the viewpoint that the Government didnt do it

[TheSumOfGod]

I'm not sure why SumofGod hasn't responded to ShadowBoxing yet.

About what? The "very dangerous word" thing? It wasn't a question he was asking me. And why don't you mind your own business, JL? All you've been doing so far in this long-ass thread is put down the conspiracy theory side, while saying "It's okay, guys, I'm one of you". Bulls**t. You're acting like an a**hole and you should find something more constructive to do.

[TheSumOfGod]

and I read somewhere saying that the BBC report was incorrect...infact they came out and said it was incorrect

Not that I know of. The FBI just said: "Well, some of the names on our official list might be wrong. We'll look into it." And then they did nothing. The names of the 19 supposed hijackers is still the same, even though at least 5 of them have apparently been proven to still be alive.

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm not sure why SumofGod hasn't responded to ShadowBoxing yet.Probably has me on ignore.

[TheSumOfGod]

Probably has me on ignore.

No you're not. I only have 4 or 5 uber-trolls like cass on Ignore. What was your question?

[roach]

Not that I know of. The FBI just said: "Well, some of the names on our official list might be wrong. We'll look into it." And then they did nothing. The names of the 19 supposed hijackers is still the same, even though at least 5 of them have apparently been proven to still be alive.

Im trying to find it now

[TheSumOfGod]

Well, even if they're all dead it doesn't really change anything. A little bit less evidence off the top doesn't make the rest of the mountain disappear. :o

[roach]

Well, even if they're all dead it doesn't really change anything. A little bit less evidence off the top doesn't make the rest of the mountain disappear. :o

On September 14th, 2001, the Department of Justice released the names of the alleged 19 hijackers. But on September 23rd, the BBC reported that Waleed Al Shehri was alive and well in Casablanca, Morrocco.
The article is from Sept. 23, 2001. The creators of "Loose Change Second Edition," which was made in 2005, choose to ignore information learned since then.

This appears to be a case of mistaken identity. A different Waleed was brother of Wail (below). His family says he disappeared before 9/11. There is no evidence that he's alive. Source

They also tracked down Abdulaziz Alomari, who is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and lost his passport while studying in Denver. Same name, different birthdates. Source

In the same article, FBI Director Robert Mueller admitted that "the identity of several of the hijackers is in doubt."
That was true as of Sept 23, 2001. You really have trouble getting past September of '01, don't you? Well, that explains a lot. You don't understand that "investigations" involve hard work and real research in the real world. That takes time. Since September, 2001, much has been learned.


"The FBI has resolved questions about the identities of the 19 hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 attacks and has discovered places outside the United States where the conspiracy was planned, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Friday. Saudi Arabian officials and others have questioned whether some of the hijackers identified by the FBI in the weeks after the attacks used stolen identifications. Mueller said those questions have been answered. "We at this point definitely know the 19 hijackers who were responsible," he said. Source


Mueller's statement to the Joint Intelligence Inquiry Committee in 2002.

Page 3 of this paper shows the connections between the 19 terrorists.


01:11:09
So how many hijackers turned up alive? At least 9 of them.
False. The hijackers all died. People with the same names as the hijackers are alive. There are 288 people listed in the U.S. phone directory who have my name, and certainly there are more who are children or are unlisted.

Wail M. Alshehri is alive and well. Brother of Waleed above. His family says he disappeared. No evidence that he's alive. Source

Mohand Alshehri is alive in Saudi Arabia. Evidence that it's not just a guy with the same name?

Khalid Almihdhar is a computer programmer in Mecca. Almihdhar the hijacker was a known, experienced Islamic militant and Al Qaeda member. Source

Salem Alhazmi works at a chemical plant in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia. Alhamzi the hijacker was a known, experienced islamic militant and Al Qaeda member. Source

Saeed Alghamdi is training to be a pilot in Tunis. Der Spiegel investigated this particular claim, and found that it appeared to be a case of mistaken identity. Source

Ahmed Alnami is an administrative supervisor for Saudi Airlines. Again, that's just a guy with the same name. The hijacker Alnami went missing from his family in December, 2000. Source

We already covered Waleed and Abdulaziz. And last but not least, Mohammed Atta's father claimed to receive a phone call from his son on September 12th.
However, Atta's father did not say this when he was interviewed on Sept. 19. Atta's father also allegedly praised the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks and said more would follow. There is no proof that Atta is alive. Source

On September 20th and 27th, Mueller admitted on CNN that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the hijackers"
Again, that's in September of 2001. Obviously the investigation had not been completed. Mueller's statement to the Joint Intelligence Inquiry Committee in 2002.

Indeed. After all, not even the official autopsy for Flight 77 lists the hijackers,
Nor does it list the two-year-old on that flight, whose remains were not identified. The report you refer to is of the body parts and tissue samples positively identified by the pathologists. DNA analysis of the hijacker's remains could not be done because that requires a reference sample. However, there is overwhelming evidence that the 19 Arab men identified by the FBI did board and take control of the flights. Source Source

And the opening paragraph makes no mention of their absence.
So if there's no proof that the hijackers were members of Al Qaeda or if they were even on the plane in the first place, Another assumption not supported by evidence. Your tally is coming up in a few pages. You still have time to submit a new draft of the "Loose Change" script!

[JLBats]

About what? The "very dangerous word" thing? It wasn't a question he was asking me. And why don't you mind your own business, JL? All you've been doing so far in this long-ass thread is put down the conspiracy theory side, while saying "It's okay, guys, I'm one of you". Bulls**t. You're acting like an a**hole and you should find something more constructive to do.

Um, no, the side I'm putting down is the one comparing the current situation to Star Wars.

And I speak of ShadowBoxing's epic post on this page.

[DOG LIPS]

TheSumOfGod, I'm not going to warn you again. One more post like that and you'll get a week off to calm down.

[JLBats]

paternizing

Is that a real word?

[roach]

*claps* that was a very good emotional response. Almost oscar worthy. I almost have a tear in my eye..almost.......unfortunately much like your 9/11 views you have jumped to the wrong conclusion. That was a page from a website CASS had posted debunking the whole Loose Change video. I posted it here since we were talking about the Hijackers being alive....tsk tsk tsk you really should do something about that temper of yours

[TheSumOfGod]

And I speak of ShadowBoxing's epic post on this page.

Oh, that. So he thinks that the American government isn't really making any money off of this neverending "War on Terror" of theirs. Yeah, Bush & co. is doing all of this s**t just because they actually care about "liberating" the people of the Middle-East and giving them democracy like a christmas gift. Next you're gonna tell me that it's an absolute pure coincidence that Halliburton is getting reconstruction contracts non-stop. :rolleyes:

[TheSumOfGod]

TheSumOfGod, I'm not going to warn you again. One more post like that and you'll get a week off to calm down.

Dog Lips, if you don't tell the exact same thing to roach, then you'll have proven that you're not being fair in this situation at all.

[DOG LIPS]

Dog Lips, if you don't tell the exact same thing to roach, then you'll have proven that you're not being fair in this situation at all.
Show me where he called you names and insulted you.

[TheSumOfGod]

That was a page from a website CASS had posted debunking the whole Loose Change video. I posted it here since we were talking about the Hijackers being alive...

Then you should have said so. You posted it as if it was your own opinion.

[TheSumOfGod]

Show me where he called you names and insulted you.

It was apparently a misunderstanding. That post he made had been written by someone else, who was insulting and putting down someone else, and he simply forgot to mention it.

[roach]

well I am gone for the day...you guys are doing a bang up job...keep the faith

[TheSumOfGod]

whatever

[FlameHead]

you all need to get on the same page...FlameHead said it was for oil

This is my last post to you. OIL means MONEY. Control the OIL and you have MONEY. A Constant state of war in the Middle East has made it possible to control OIL and therefor MONEY is constantly being made... and being made by a SELECT FEW!

It's not about OIL. It's about the MONEY that is made from OIL. The same goes for the WAR MACHINE. It's not about instating a democracy in a nation. It's about the MONEY being made from the WAR MACHINE.

It all comes down to MONEY!

[FlameHead]

hey I am arguing his points and then you come in arguing my points about his points....He is saying one thing and you are saying another. It has nothing to do with being a clone and everything to do with you guys just grabbing at straws to make yourselves sound important

You're problem and the rest who refuse the TRUTH is that you're lumping everyone who disagrees with official story into ONE GROUP when we are seperate human beings. Get that through your head, first and foremost and perhaps then we'll have a discussion.

All this talk about reptilians and holograms was never brought up by me or from SUM that I know of so please, refrain from lumping me (and him) into that group.

[JLBats]

All this talk about reptilians and holograms was never brought up by me or from SUM that I know of so please, refrain from lumping me (and him) into that group.

Oh, you naive person.

Sum made a whole thread about the Reptilians.

[TheSumOfGod]

I think the different people and organizations involved at various levels all have their own motives. Cheney probably only cares about the big "thank you" notes left to him by his old pals at Halliburton. Bush, well... He probably hears the voice of "God" inside of his head, or maybe he just wants to make his daddy proud. Others higher up probably want to take over the world, the State of Israel and Mossad seem to be involved at a certain level, and I guess they want for the enemies that surround them to go away for good. There isn't just one answer here.

[FlameHead]

I'm a late comer, but did anyone catch CSPAN Saturday at 8:00. Like I said, i'm a late comer so if this was discussed or is being discussed I apologize. Interesting and scary stuff.

I've been promoting that C-Span coverage for the past couple of days and in fact, it will be on again tonight at 6:10EST.

Welcome to the thread. Beware, it's a scary place to be but, a very worthwhile conversation to be part of, I think.

[ShadowBoxing]

Oh, that. So he thinks that the American government isn't really making any money off of this neverending "War on Terror" of theirs. Yeah, Bush & co. is doing all of this s**t just because they actually care about "liberating" the people of the Middle-East and giving them democracy like a christmas gift. Next you're gonna tell me that it's an absolute pure coincidence that Halliburton is getting reconstruction contracts non-stop. :rolleyes:No, actually I did not say that. I pointed out that the military-industial complex is not making money.

Furthermore the Government has lost money, that is fact.

[FlameHead]

On September 14th, 2001, the Department of Justice released the names of the alleged 19 hijackers.,,

And you don't see a problem with the fact that these alleged hijackers were fingered in THREE DAYS! That's pretty interesting considering NONE OF THEM were listed as passangers and they STILL have yet to find proof that it was them.

[TheSumOfGod]

All this talk about reptilians and holograms was never brought up by me or from SUM that I know of so please, refrain from lumping me (and him) into that group.

Uh, yeah. Ultradimensional reptilian shapeshifters known as the Anunnaki and "Project Blue Beam" hi-tech holographic projections of the planes hitting the Twin Towers are a part of my own personal greater 9/11 theory, but I haven't talked about them in this thread.

[FlameHead]

Oh, you naive person.

Sum made a whole thread about the Reptilians.

That thread is not here now is it? I've not read the thread and I also said "THAT I KNOW OF", so please, do be quiet.

[JLBats]

Uh, yeah. Ultradimensional reptilian shapeshifters known as the Anunnaki and "Project Blue Beam" hi-tech holographic projections of the planes hitting the Twin Towers are a part of my own personal greater 9/11 theory, but I haven't talked about them in this thread.

Whatever happened with that Blue Beam thread you made a while back?

You made that prediction about an alien invasion and then one about Jerusalem.

[FlameHead]

Uh, yeah. Ultradimensional reptilian shapeshifters known as the Anunnaki and "Project Blue Beam" hi-tech holographic projections of the planes hitting the Twin Towers are a part of my own personal greater 9/11 theory, but I haven't talked about them in this thread.

There's no need to. These people haven't even grasped the **** directly out in from of them yet, let alone these topics.

[TheSumOfGod]

Got deleted.

[JLBats]

Got deleted.

Yeah, but is the invasion still on?

[FlameHead]

No, actually I did not say that. I pointed out that the military-industial complex is not making money.

Furthermore the Government has lost money, that is fact.

The Government may have but those who make the weopons and vehicles used in warfare sure haven't.

[ShadowBoxing]

That thread is not here now is it? I've not read the thread and I also said "THAT I KNOW OF", so please, do be quiet.He made one called "The Illumanti/Anunnaki Power Structure" [or something like that] a while back. It was a while ago though.

[JLBats]

There's no need to. These people haven't even grasped the **** directly out in from of them yet, let alone these topics.

Pssst...

It's just a suggestion, but if you're looking to get this revolution going, you might want to stop talking about Reptilians and holograms... at all.

[FlameHead]

Let's talk about W199-I again. Nobody has really shared their opinions on this yet. Avoiding that too?

9/11 - Bush blocks FBI from Investigating Al-Qaeda - W-199-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svgQ6ISM7_A

[JLBats]

You still haven't answered those questions I asked earlier.

[FlameHead]

Pssst...

It's just a suggestion, but if you're looking to get this revolution going, you might want to stop talking about Reptilians and holograms... at all.

Pssst....

You're the one who keeps bringin' it up.

[JLBats]

Pssst....

You're the one who keeps bringin' it up.

Oh, I'm not talking about in this thread.

[FlameHead]

You still haven't answered those questions I asked earlier.

I did, vaguely, TWICE.

[FlameHead]

Oh, I'm not talking about in this thread.

Then stop talking about it.

[JLBats]

Then stop talking about it.

Oh, talk about it all you want in this thread. But when trying to convert people in real life, I don't recommend it.

[FlameHead]

Oh, talk about it all you want in this thread. But when trying to convert people in real life, I don't recommend it.

And I agree with you. Like I said, most people cannot even grasp the stuff that's slapping them in the face, let alone these theories.

[JLBats]

And I agree with you. Like I said, most people cannot even grasp the stuff that's slapping them in the face, let alone these theories.

Because those theories are so utterly fantastical that they cloud the actual theory is a better reason.

[stryfe]

Because those theories are so utterly fantastical that they cloud the actual theory is a better reason.


I dont see you slapping people in the face that believe in God and thats as fantastical as they come.

[JLBats]

I dont see you slapping people in the face that believe in God and thats as fantastical as they come.

My beliefs on the lie that is Jesus are for another conversation.

[ShadowBoxing]

Let's talk about W199-I again. Nobody has really shared their opinions on this yet. Avoiding that too?

9/11 - Bush blocks FBI from Investigating Al-Qaeda - W-199-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svgQ6ISM7_A

First of all, they alledge that John O'Neill died in the WTC his "first day on the job". Incorrect, he started in late August.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/john/timeline.html

In fact the night before he died he told friends how much he loved his new job.

Sibel Edmunds. It is funny the "truth" movement did not have her tell her story. Because her "story" in fact has nothing to do with 9-11. It had to do with an unfair termination.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/18828res20050126.html


As for Wright's connection to W199I. Well perhaps you should ask his lawyer who in this document mentions nothing of gag orders or halts on investigations. Just that Wright expressed concerns about the FBI's lax investigations.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases/78/schippers.gif

[FlameHead]

First of all, they alledge that John O'Neill died in the WTC his "first day on the job". Incorrect, he started in late August.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/john/timeline.html

In fact the night before he died he told friends how much he loved his new job.

Sibel Edmunds. It is funny the "truth" movement did not have her tell her story. Because her "story" in fact has nothing to do with 9-11. It had to do with an unfair termination.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/18828res20050126.html


As for Wright's connection to 199I-WF. Well perhaps you should ask his lawyer who in this document mentions nothing of gag orders or halts on investigations. Just that Wright expressed concerns about the FBI's lax investigations.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases/78/schippers.gif

Okay but you still haven't talked about W199-I specifically.

[ShadowBoxing]

Okay but you still haven't talked about W199-I specifically.That is because the video showed no connection between W199-I and 911 and got all the facts wrong.

[FlameHead]

That is because the video showed no connection between W199-I and 911 and got all the facts wrong.

No connection? Bush signed into law measures used to NOT capture Al-Qaeda and not only that, arrest folks who tried to stop them. Al-Qaeda was blamed for 9/11 and well known as a terrorist organization long before it.

It's physically, mentally and emotionally tough talkign to some of you. Wake the hell up.

[Carter]

Oh man here we go again.
I'll be back in a few hours to demolish this thread. I'm just sick of it.
I'll be collecting info for a while.

[JLBats]

It's physically, mentally and emotionally tough talkign to some of you. Wake the hell up.

:down:rolleyes:

I guess this dumbass comment kind of goes with that one you made earlier about the Matrix, and the Star Wars ones. It's extremely difficult to talk to you because you see yourself as a messiah and seem to have little grasp on reality:confused:

[FlameHead]

Oh man here we go again.
I'll be back in a few hours to demolish this thread. I'm just sick of it.
I'll be collecting info for a while.

Carter, you still seem to misunderstand. This is not about YOU demolishing this thread or theories. It's about holding your Government accountable and making THEM demolish the thread and theories. The fact that it's being ignored is reason enough to be suspicious.

[JLBats]

Carter, you still seem to misunderstand. This is not about YOU demolishing this thread or theories. It's about holding your Government accountable and making THEM demolish the thread and theories. The fact that it's being ignored is reason enough to be suspicious.

Because they consider it ridiculous. To address it would be to give it credibility.

[FlameHead]

:down:rolleyes:

I guess this dumbass comment kind of goes with that one you made earlier about the Matrix, and the Star Wars ones. It's extremely difficult to talk to you because you see yourself as a messiah and seem to have little grasp on reality:confused:

I in no way think I'm a Messiah and I have more of a grasp on reality than most, so please stop with this gibberish. For the life of me, I can't understand why I keep coming back here. It's pointless.

Watch C-Span 1 at 6:10 EST

[FlameHead]

Because they consider it ridiculous. To address it would be to give it credibility.

If hundreds of thousands of people are demanding they address it, it's their JOB to do so. YOU ARE NOT THERE FOR THE GOVERNMENT. THE GOVERNMENT IS THERE FOR YOU.

[Carter]

There aren't one thousand people who believe in holograms and reptilians

[ShadowBoxing]

No connection? Bush signed into law measures used to NOT capture Al-Qaeda and not only that, arrest folks who tried to stop them. Al-Qaeda was blamed for 9/11 and well known as a terrorist organization long before it.

Thats what the video was ATTEMPTING TO PROVE. And deciding to skew all the "facts" it strung together which actually had no connection. By the way Sibel was fired after protesting over surveillence that an intenational agent she had "relations" with was put under.

It's physically, mentally and emotionally tough talkign to some of you. Wake the hell up.

Feeling mutual.