View Full Version : Batman Begins Vs Superman Returns
I usually hate threads like this but I have to wonder which will be the better movie. As a Batman fan I hope Batman Begins stays as my favourite superhero movie, although I do like Superman.
So far Superman Returns looks like its going to a definate hit and will make more money but im talking more about personal opinions.
I know both movies are very different as in Batman is darker and Superman is lighter themed. But I think the team behind Batman Begins is alot better I mean look at the director, cast and writer its almost like you cant go wrong with that.
Ronny Shade
06-21-2006, 10:15 AM
Have to see SR first. It looks awesome.
El Payaso
06-21-2006, 10:18 AM
I. have. To. See. SR. First.
BatMatt
06-21-2006, 10:28 AM
Who cares? Both movies are/will be excellent and revived dead franchises of two of the greatest superheros ever
DA Harvey Dent
06-21-2006, 11:24 AM
Despite how good SR is, I will always be a Batman fan. Personally, I relate much more to Batman than Superman.
CConn
06-21-2006, 02:25 PM
Wait a week.
Create a poll.
Make me some toast. :yup:
Ronny Shade
06-21-2006, 02:25 PM
English muffin
Haven't seen SR yet, but it'd have to be pretty darn good to top Begins. Especially since being a Bat-fan, I'm bias.
The Batman
06-21-2006, 04:56 PM
I know for damn sure the action in SR will own BB.
thedarks0ldier
06-21-2006, 08:41 PM
Either way, DC winning last year's movie war (in terms of quality and possible DVD sales) and hopefully winning this year's means that hopefully Marvel quit's making ****ty movies like Daredevil and X3, not that its Marvel's fault, but just bad comic movies hurt the chances for other franchises to get the treatment they deserve, like the Flash or Green Lantern.
Either way, DC winning last year's movie war (in terms of quality and possible DVD sales) and hopefully winning this year's means that hopefully Marvel quit's making ****ty movies like Daredevil and X3, not that its Marvel's fault, but just bad comic movies hurt the chances for other franchises to get the treatment they deserve, like the Flash or Green Lantern.
Hey Daredevil was good especially the director cut!!
I maybe a DC fan but that doesnt mean im gonna hate on marvel heroes cause i liked Daredevil, Elektra, Hulk and Punisher movies unlike most people.
CConn
06-21-2006, 09:30 PM
He wasn't trying to bash Marvel movies, just (his definition of) bad superhero movies in general.
He wasn't trying to bash Marvel movies, just (his definition of) bad superhero movies in general.
:) well thats a bad definition cause there are actually people out there who like those movies. If you really wanted a bad superhero movie the best example is Batman & Robin or Superman 3 & 4.
Ronny Shade
06-22-2006, 08:28 AM
I'll watch Superman IV over Daredevil any day of the week
The Kid
06-25-2006, 11:37 PM
poop. The director's cut rox.
I didn't feel like making a new thread so I'll ask here.
Why does racheal and everyone except alfred not wonder where bruce left too for so many years and how do they not figure out that this batman popping up since wayne's return could be him in disguise? thanks for your time.
CConn
06-26-2006, 12:10 AM
:) well thats a bad definition cause there are actually people out there who like those movies. If you really wanted a bad superhero movie the best example is Batman & Robin or Superman 3 & 4.There's people who like Batman & Robin too.
There just aren't many of them.
drunkhomer
06-26-2006, 01:45 AM
i have a part time job at a theatre, and they had a press screening already for it, and my manager was alout to watch it, and he told us his opinions on SR.....and that the movie is good enough, like the director must have really liked the old superman movies because its pretty much the same....he said he was disapointed in the sense that he expected something big and new that superman would do....like he was jsut tryin to say dat its toooo much the same from the old...
but he still liked it....but he siad he likes BB better overal....lSR is a ong movie...over 2hr30mins
frodawgg
06-26-2006, 07:39 AM
poop. The director's cut rox.
I didn't feel like making a new thread so I'll ask here.
Why does racheal and everyone except alfred not wonder where bruce left too for so many years and how do they not figure out that this batman popping up since wayne's return could be him in disguise? thanks for your time.
good question
Merkel
06-26-2006, 12:19 PM
Between Bruce's return to Gotham and Batman's first appearance, some time goes by. BY that reasoning, anyone could be Batman.
I?m more curious about the missing reporter and concides with the missing of Superman, and the two look alike, have the same voice and the reporter seems to get first hand all the stories about Superman.
batman44
06-26-2006, 01:30 PM
poop. The director's cut rox.
I didn't feel like making a new thread so I'll ask here.
Why does racheal and everyone except alfred not wonder where bruce left too for so many years and how do they not figure out that this batman popping up since wayne's return could be him in disguise? thanks for your time.
You can say the the samething for Superman.
ChrisBaleBatman
06-26-2006, 02:27 PM
Why does racheal and everyone except alfred not wonder where bruce left too for so many years and how do they not figure out that this batman popping up since wayne's return could be him in disguise? thanks for your time.
Except Alfred? Alfred knows because Bruce told him......that hardly counts as "wondering".
As for everyone else wondering where he went....well, he's a rich playboy who went out to party....and didn't stop rocking til he felt like coming back 7 years later. I'm sure Alfred and the Wayne money could help create excuses too.
Bruce acting like a richboy dutz....it's why nobody puts 2 and 2 togeter....it worked wonders for Don Diego.
And, yeah batman44 is right. You could say the same, and give a better argument, for Superman Returns.
Plus, the 7 year absence is part of the myth.
saint sinner x
06-27-2006, 03:39 PM
poop. The director's cut rox.
I didn't feel like making a new thread so I'll ask here.
Why does racheal and everyone except alfred not wonder where bruce left too for so many years and how do they not figure out that this batman popping up since wayne's return could be him in disguise? thanks for your time.
Let's not get started on how many plothole superman returns has, I saw the movie superman returns and well i was dissapointed big time and i went into the movie theater with an open mind and I enjoy batman begins waaaaayyyyyy more then i did with superman returns. Batman begins is just more bad ass more sick and more sophisticated. Superman returns didn't even make me feel sorrow for the characters. Batman begins on the other hand did.
BatMatt
06-27-2006, 07:56 PM
My only question about SR is, wont' people notice when Clark left, Superman left? And when Superman Returned, Clark returned?
Two-Face
06-27-2006, 08:01 PM
I haven't seen SR cos it comes out on July 14 but I doubt Returns will superpass Begins.
saint sinner x
06-27-2006, 10:24 PM
My only question about SR is, wont' people notice when Clark left, Superman left? And when Superman Returned, Clark returned?
That's one of the plotholes i didn't wanted to talk about and the sad thing is that nobody care that clark kent left for so many years.
Another problem i had with superman returns is thatIn superman 2, superman lost his powers and slept with lois lane, The kid in superman returns is superman's kid but he has powers and when clark slept with lois clark didn't even had powers!
CConn
06-27-2006, 11:21 PM
That's one of the plotholes i didn't wanted to talk aboutIt was also a plot hole in BB.
and the sad thing is that nobody care that clark kent left for so many years.Which was also a plot hole in BB. Hell, at least in SR, Ma Kent and Jimmy are estatic to see Clark back. Bruce Wayne got no such reception in BB. Not that I minded greatly.
Another problem i had with superman returns is thatIn superman 2, superman lost his powers and slept with lois lane, The kid in superman returns is superman's kid but he has powers and when clark slept with lois clark didn't even had powers!Who knows how Kryptonian/Human mating works, who knows how the losing the powers thing worked, who knows how he got them back worked. Singer really could go anything he wanted with that, as it's just so unknown.
The Only Woj
06-28-2006, 12:27 AM
they did mention Gotham, just wanted to throw that out there
Begins wins in that it focuses almost exclusively on Bruce. Superman is too much Lois Lane Returns for my liking. Routh was great, but he hardly had anything to say or do.
StorminNorman
06-28-2006, 01:38 AM
Superman Returns is every bit as good as Batman Begins. They are of the same caliber which is a true credit to both films.
thedarks0ldier
06-28-2006, 05:08 AM
:) well thats a bad definition cause there are actually people out there who like those movies. If you really wanted a bad superhero movie the best example is Batman & Robin or Superman 3 & 4.
those arent real movies...
Ultimate_Superman
06-28-2006, 07:57 AM
those arent real movies...They were all just a bad dream right?
Nightwing92
06-28-2006, 10:00 AM
SR looks pretty badass but their is only one reason i abhor it the most, and that reason is that the whole franchise can't happen in reality.... batman begins is believable..... but SR is going to be a great movie by the looks of it...
The Kid
06-28-2006, 10:30 AM
Except Alfred? Alfred knows because Bruce told him......that hardly counts as "wondering".
To explain myself in reply: that's why I said "except alfred." cuz He already knew... I don't really get where your going with that, friend.
As for everyone else wondering where he went....well, he's a rich playboy who went out to party....and didn't stop rocking til he felt like coming back 7 years later. I'm sure Alfred and the Wayne money could help create excuses too.
He was declared dead though. It's actually all over the news, a dead guy returning from the grave. I'd expect someone to wonder where he was all that time but it just never happened for whatever reason.
Bruce acting like a richboy dutz....it's why nobody puts 2 and 2 togeter....it worked wonders for Don Diego.
ok. but forgive me, I can't stop myself from challenging that a little by saying I've never witness don diego being declared dead and then returning while some zorro guy makes an appearance some time later. Did this happen to don too?
And, yeah batman44 is right. You could say the same, and give a better argument, for Superman Returns.
what would it be? I'm not yet sold on the idea that not one person gave a second thought about clark's five year soul searching journey somehow possibly being linked to superman's, or even them both returning in about the same week/month of time. I'm Not sure though about all the details. I haven't seen it yet, I might just go see it today.
Plus, the 7 year absence is part of the myth.
Indeed, my good man. Now you make me wonder how accurate begins is in representing the myth's story.
Mmmm sausages.
Anita18
06-29-2006, 10:06 PM
Sorry peeps, my Mac has turned to molasses on me. And weirded out in the process....
Anita18
06-29-2006, 10:06 PM
Okay, now it's Take #0283498346918374 or whatever it is...
I really liked SR, but something was missing. It didn't move me as much as BB, not by a mile...and after mulling it over in my head I think I've finallly got it.
We were led to believe that SR was going to be about Supes finding his place in a world that had learned to live without him. We did not see that. We saw him trying to find his place in Lois's life because she had learned to live without him. Small potatoes in comparison. That was a huge disappointment for me.
We were led to believe (thanks to trailers heavily featuring old Marlon Brando voiceovers) that Supes was supposed to represent good, and his purpose was to inspire good in other people. We did not see that. He inspires awe, like he should, but not much else. The entire good-evil conflict is between him and Lex Luthor. Same old superhero story stuff.
For me, BB was so much bigger than what SR was. It was about a man who could have had anything he wanted, thanks to a vast inheritance. Anything. But he gave it up to understand a world that was completely foreign to him, and all because he felt so much anger and guilt from the death of his parents. It was about a man singlehandedly taking on an entire city rotting with corruption and hate. At the end of the movie, he doesn't go as far as inspiring goodness. But he inspires hope, and that is all the people of Gotham could wish for at this point. And we see the inklings of Batman inspiring people like Gordon, Finch, and Rachel to take a stand.
I know that a lot of people hate the Narrows kid, but I think (especially after being disappointed in SR) that he has a fairly important role. The kid, from what we have seen, is trapped in an abusive family. He's seen many horrors thanks to living in the Narrows, and he has no hope. He sees Batman, and immediately lights up. When he and Rachel are in danger, he believes Batman will save him. The same thing could certainly be attributed to Gordon. He's frustrated by the corruption around him, but he doesn't have a way of working around it until Bats comes along. At the end of the movie, he has hope, and that was something SR could have really instilled in the story. Unfortunately, it didn't.
Sure, BB had plot holes that SR had 100000x more of (at least Bruce had a month or two to ready up Bats while Clark just jumped right back into Superman mode). But for me, the heart of SR could have been so much bigger, on par with BB and even beyond, and I'm really disappointed that it wasn't.
Not to say that SR doesn't have beautiful shots like BB did. It was a gorgeous film, but for me, every moment of BB was done perfectly.
Bat Attack
06-29-2006, 10:31 PM
I enjoyed Batman Begins a bit more than Superman Returns. But they're both great film, IMO.
batboy86
06-29-2006, 11:47 PM
To me, it seemed SR lacked a plot. It seemed more like a love story. Don't get me wrong, I had high expectations but what I saw on screen didn't impress me.
ChrisBaleBatman
06-30-2006, 12:12 AM
My only question about SR is, wont' people notice when Clark left, Superman left? And when Superman Returned, Clark returned?
lol, well........disbelief suspensed...
It was also a plot hole in BB.
Which one, the returning part?
Which was also a plot hole in BB. Hell, at least in SR, Ma Kent and Jimmy are estatic to see Clark back. Bruce Wayne got no such reception in BB. Not that I minded greatly.
Well, Alfred cared. Rachel care. His return did make an impact on on Wayne Enterprises as well, and his return was announced on the front of newspapers. He actually did get alot of lovin', although Earle's was obviously Bull****.....but, hey...it's the thought that counts.
To explain myself in reply: that's why I said "except alfred." cuz He already knew... I don't really get where your going with that, friend.
Well, just that we didn't actually see Alfred wondering is all. We didn't see anyone wondering at all, that's all I'm pointing out. We don't see Gotham at all when Bruce is away.
But...the adapted novel kinda covers that, it's a nice read.
He was declared dead though. It's actually all over the news, a dead guy returning from the grave. I'd expect someone to wonder where he was all that time but it just never happened for whatever reason.
Well, we don't know when exactly it happened. My guess, since Earle's making his move once Bruce returns, that he returns immediately after being declared dead- and plays the dumb rich boy card. I think it's just something people could fill the blanks on they're own though.
ok. but forgive me, I can't stop myself from challenging that a little by saying I've never witness don diego being declared dead and then returning while some zorro guy makes an appearance some time later. Did this happen to don too?
Well, he wasn't declared dead.....but he did make a kind of journey.
The other thing is that his money could really help cover his tracks on this, even having to go back and create one.
Playing the party boy having fun card, easy like pie.
what would it be? I'm not yet sold on the idea that not one person gave a second thought about clark's five year soul searching journey somehow possibly being linked to superman's, or even them both returning in about the same week/month of time. I'm Not sure though about all the details. I haven't seen it yet, I might just go see it today.
Yeah, me neither.......the reason I say you COULD give a better argument against SR (I haven't seen the film yet, so I'll get back to you on this after tomorrow) b/c he works in a news room....around 2 great reporters, Lois and Perry, and then there's Jimmy-boy who takes all the pics.....my argument would be that those people should be able to put 2 and 2 together.
But, again....I only THINK you can give that argument, but I'll let you guys know after I watch the movie.
Indeed, my good man. Now you make me wonder how accurate begins is in representing the myth's story.
Pretty on the money, actually. I did prefer the BEGINS one, b/c there could be no trails whatsoever to his journey. He went on the travel with no money, without leaning on his family name, essentially living like a bum and fighting to survive. I think in that respect, it trumps the story last (it might be retconned, but....who the **** knows anymore...) story of the myth.
Mmmm sausages
Wait.
What kind of sausages....?
ZER0C00L
06-30-2006, 08:38 AM
that was BAD in batman begins that no one had much to say about bruce waynes return as if they didnt give much of a sh t and that feeling lingered through out the whole movie.
Nightwing92
06-30-2006, 08:57 AM
i know that sucked.... but you are off topic....
raybia
06-30-2006, 09:25 AM
I usually hate threads like this but I have to wonder which will be the better movie. As a Batman fan I hope Batman Begins stays as my favourite superhero movie, although I do like Superman.
So far Superman Returns looks like its going to a definate hit and will make more money but im talking more about personal opinions.
I know both movies are very different as in Batman is darker and Superman is lighter themed. But I think the team behind Batman Begins is alot better I mean look at the director, cast and writer its almost like you cant go wrong with that.
Even though they are both superhero movies that may or may not share the same universe, they are two different movies. BB could theortically take place in our world. SR is pure fantasy, right down to how the population and Government reacts to the existence of an "Alien being" with absolute power.
Batman Begins and Superman Returns are by no means the "definitive films" of both franchises. The difference though is that BB is the best of the Batman series while SR is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best of that series.
I am a huge fan of both characters and regardless of the flaws in both films (and SR had more than BB did) they serve as excellent platforms for greater sequels (if treated with the same care by the studio). They make the statement and serve notice that both characters are back!
The best is yet to come for both.
Doesnt SR have more negative feedback than BB at the time of its release? Im pretty sure all critics loved BB but SR is getting a mix...
CConn
06-30-2006, 03:53 PM
BB had 83% positive reviews, SR has 75%. Not too big of a difference. And hardly a "mixed" reception for SR.
Nightwing92
06-30-2006, 04:03 PM
I really think their gonna have just about the same ratings.... on yahoo movies the critics and the yahoo users gave BB a B+ ..... but on SR The Critics gave it a B and the Yahoo users gave it a B+..... so its not that much of a competition
CConn
06-30-2006, 04:31 PM
The difference between SR and BB, I think, is the fact BB was made to be, y'know, every fanboy's little wet dream, so on top of its actual quality, we all go crazy over it because it's how we imagined such a movie to be made.
Superman Returns however, wasn't exactly what everyone wanted or thought it would be, and I think that, despite it's great quality, upset some people.
Personally, SR wasn't exactly what I wanted either, but it's still a fantastic film and one I think is probably better than BB.
I enjoyed the hell out of Superman Returns. It took a couple viewings for me to actually get to like Batman Begins. Superman Returns sold itself to me in one viewing.
This Round: Supes > Bats.
Well, I was amazed by Spider-Man 2 first time round, wasn't too impressed with Batman Begins, although it was a good watch. But after repeated viewings of both movies, I found greater depth in BB as compared to SM 2, so now BB is without a doubt, the best comic book movie in my mind - like wine, it just keeps getting better.
Superman Returns on the other hand, wasn't even that great of a 1st watch because of the glaring plotholes and inconsistencies. I don't know if it'll get like BB which will get better with repeated viewings, but I seriously doubt so. The entire storyline is pretty shallow, and acting mere passable (apart from Kevin Spacey who did the best he could with that role).
Of the Big Trio (Superman, Batman and Spider-Man), Superman Returns comes in last.
Katsuro
07-01-2006, 03:47 AM
We were led to believe (thanks to trailers heavily featuring old Marlon Brando voiceovers) that Supes was supposed to represent good, and his purpose was to inspire good in other people. We did not see that. He inspires awe, like he should, but not much else. The entire good-evil conflict is between him and Lex Luthor. Same old superhero story stuff.
That actually is in there, at least I caught it. The voiceover of Brando where he's talking about inspiring other people occurs when Superman is drowning, right before Richard, Lois, and Jason go back to save Superman. It may have been minor, but it was there.
Galactical
07-01-2006, 07:26 AM
I like begins more than superman returns. begins, though not perfect or the jesus christ of comicbook films it is to quite a few, keeps the story aimed on batman and everything is about him and why he does what he does. Returns felt like an awkward re-mix of the original superman in which he's a guest star but with a twist in that this time some kid is thrown in who I guess people know by now is the offspring of someone super. Without getting into details, I'll say that in the end, my dvd of batman begins will be alot more worn out than my superman returns dvd...
Green Goblin 1964
07-01-2006, 12:01 PM
sr and bb are both amazing movies i seriously don't know which one i like better
thedarks0ldier
07-01-2006, 05:27 PM
I dont know if you guys notice this but Perry White asked Jimmy Olsen how the "Birthday Clown Massacre" pictures are coming along.
Two-Face
07-01-2006, 05:51 PM
I dont know if you guys notice this but Perry White asked Jimmy Olsen how the "Birthday Clown Massacre" pictures are coming along.
Hightlight to read:
It's about Joker?
Another problem i had with superman returns is thatIn superman 2, superman lost his powers and slept with lois lane, The kid in superman returns is superman's kid but he has powers and when clark slept with lois clark didn't even had powers!
He lost his powers but his genetic make up is still Kryptonian. Therefore his kid would end up with Kryptonian DNA. Don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand this
Anyway for me it's like this Superman Returns was the better film. Now keep in mind that 80% of my post count on this site was aquired through remaining exclusive to this section of the hype. Keep in mind that I own all the Batman films and enjoy certain elements of each one (even B&R) a great deal. I have been reading Batman comics for over 16 years. There are very few people in my age group that understand the in's and out's of the Batman canon like I do. I'm talking about from the Kane/Finger era to present. However when I went to see BB opening weekend on IMAX it left me a little cold.
Most of that had to do with people hyping it up before hand as being faithful to the maximum and nonsense like that. So I made the error as approaching it as a comic book fan first and film fan second. I went in expecting a direct translation as opposed to an adaptation and becasuse of that when I walked out of the theater I had a lot of problems with it. I've watched it on DVD more times than I could count now and have learned to appreciate it more even though it's still not touching Mask of the Phantasm.
I didn't make the same mistake of playing "wannabe critic" and trying to be overanalytical this time though. I went in there expecting what they ended up accomplishing, "honoring Donner's original" nothing more nothing less. As opposed to "the most faithful comic book movie ever" like some people told me about BB before a couple of days before I saw it. Because of that it took me one viewing of SR to praise it as a great movie.
Like BB it makes lots of changes to the canon to fit the movie world, like BB it has plot holes, like BB it wasn't the film I wanted to see based on that particular character. I grew up during "Marvelization" of Superman so the Byrne/Jurgens/Waid era holds a special place with me. So a film more along the lines of that interpretation and having Supes facing someone like Mongul would've been my preffered choice. However unlike BB by the end of the film I felt like a complete kid again.
I'm not a fan of X-Men (the film not the comic) and I thought X2 was just ok but Singer has finally gained my respect and proved to me that he could handle genre filmmaking with the big dogs. The plane sequence is one of the most breathtaking things I've seen in a theater. Right up there with the T-1000 and the dinosaurs in Jurrasic Park. The audience I saw it with agreed too cause by the time Supes asked "Is everybody alright?" they erupted in applause. Nothing like that happened when I saw BB (though like with SR there was applause by the time the credits rolled) so I guess the exprience also had something to do with my opinion.
Routh completely won me over and like Bale I can't see anybody else in the role now. The movie had a lot of heart and while I just saw the 35mm I'm very much looking forward to catching it again in IMAX 3D. It was a great way to bring the character back despite it's flaws and I'm very much looking forward to the sequels and the eventual World's Finest movie now more than ever. Hats off to Bryan Singer and company for actually making a remake/sequel that matches up in more ways than one to the original.
Despite me liking it more than BB though we all win in the end because Warner has proven that they're not playing around with this new regime of DC films. I mean they dropped "quality over quantity" two years in a row already with films that weren't really action driven but were excellent character based pieces that actually made the audience connect on an emotional level with the story being told as opposed to insulting them. They were also great set ups for things to come.
I hope they use the same care they've used overseeing BB & SR with the upcoming Wonder Woman and Flash adaptations. Especially The Flash. I'm just glad that after all these years "Superman V" did not end up sucking all sorts of ass.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-01-2006, 06:35 PM
that was BAD in batman begins that no one had much to say about bruce waynes return as if they didnt give much of a sh t and that feeling lingered through out the whole movie.
Well, he has no friends......so, why would anyone really care to begin with? He's nothing but some silk shirt wearing rich boy.
Doesnt SR have more negative feedback than BB at the time of its release? Im pretty sure all critics loved BB but SR is getting a mix...
I think it makes sense why, though. Superman has tons of hype surrounding it. ANY film with that much hype can never please everyone. It's statistically impossible. Batman Begins pretty much snuck under the radar with the little hype it had.
The difference between SR and BB, I think, is the fact BB was made to be, y'know, every fanboy's little wet dream, so on top of its actual quality, we all go crazy over it because it's how we imagined such a movie to be made.
Superman Returns however, wasn't exactly what everyone wanted or thought it would be, and I think that, despite it's great quality, upset some people.
Personally, SR wasn't exactly what I wanted either, but it's still a fantastic film and one I think is probably better than BB.
Yeah, totally. I think people, fanboys and all, went into this expecting the "classic ****"....ya know, same 'ol same 'ol, things that we all know have been done in the comics, and the cartoons. I think everyone imagined it'd be like that.
Problem is, it's not. It's a really ballsy film. It takes the mythos and takes them to an all new level, to a level even the comics haven't taken them.....and I think it's just scary for a lot of people to see that happen.
Personally, I loved the film. I think the tone, the scenes, the homages, (the Gotham mention was cool), and the film was just hands down....incredible. It's not the way I would have done it, it's not the story I would have told.....but just b/c it's different doesn't mean it's not good.
I don't think it's better than Batman, but I think it's about par. It's definitely number 2 on my list.
Superman Returns on the other hand, wasn't even that great of a 1st watch because of the glaring plotholes and inconsistencies.
like what? I didn't catch any....
I guess if there's anything that Batman Begins had, that I would have like in Superman Rerturns, is the total focus on the Hero. There was alot of Lex in here, alot more than than I thought there would be. But.....he NEEDED it, so to build up the story.
Jack Napier
07-01-2006, 07:01 PM
He lost his powers but his genetic make up is still Kryptonian. Therefore his kid would end up with Kryptonian DNA. Don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand this
Anyway for me it's like this Superman Returns was the better film. Now keep in mind that 80% of my post count on this site was aquired through remaining exclusive to this section of the hype. Keep in mind that I own all the Batman films and enjoy certain elements of each one (even B&R) a great deal. I have been reading Batman comics for over 16 years. There are very few people in my age group that understand the in's and out's of the Batman canon like I do. I'm talking about from the Kane/Finger era to present. However when I went to see BB opening weekend on IMAX it left me a little cold.
Most of that had to do with people hyping it up before hand as being faithful to the maximum and nonsense like that. So I made the error as approaching it as a comic book fan first and film fan second. I went in expecting a direct translation as opposed to an adaptation and becasuse of that when I walked out of the theater I had a lot of problems with it. I've watched it on DVD more times than I could count now and have learned to appreciate it more even though it's still not touching Mask of the Phantasm.
I didn't make the same mistake of playing "wannabe critic" and trying to be overanalytical this time though. I went in there expecting what they ended up accomplishing, "honoring Donner's original" nothing more nothing less. As opposed to "the most faithful comic book movie ever" like some people told me about BB before a couple of days before I saw it. Because of that it took me one viewing of SR to praise it as a great movie.
Like BB it makes lots of changes to the canon to fit the movie world, like BB it has plot holes, like BB it wasn't the film I wanted to see based on that particular character. I grew up during "Marvelization" of Superman so the Byrne/Jurgens/Waid era holds a special place with me. So a film more along the lines of that interpretation and having Supes facing someone like Mongul would've been my preffered choice. However unlike BB by the end of the film I felt like a complete kid again.
I'm not a fan of X-Men (the film not the comic) and I thought X2 was just ok but Singer has finally gained my respect and proved to me that he could handle genre filmmaking with the big dogs. The plane sequence is one of the most breathtaking things I've seen in a theater. Right up there with the T-1000 and the dinosaurs in Jurrasic Park. The audience I saw it with agreed too cause by the time Supes asked "Is everybody alright?" they erupted in applause. Nothing like that happened when I saw BB (though like with SR there was applause by the time the credits rolled) so I guess the exprience also had something to do with my opinion.
Routh completely won me over and like Bale I can't see anybody else in the role now. The movie had a lot of heart and while I just saw the 35mm I'm very much looking forward to catching it again in IMAX 3D. It was a great way to bring the character back despite it's flaws and I'm very much looking forward to the sequels and the eventual World's Finest movie now more than ever. Hats off to Bryan Singer and company for actually making a remake/sequel that matches up in more ways than one to the original.
Despite me liking it more than BB though we all win in the end because Warner has proven that they're not playing around with this new regime of DC films. I mean they dropped "quality over quantity" two years in a row already with films that weren't really action driven but were excellent character based pieces that actually made the audience connect on an emotional level with the story being told as opposed to insulting them. They were also great set ups for things to come.
I hope they use the same care they've used overseeing BB & SR with the upcoming Wonder Woman and Flash adaptations. Especially The Flash. I'm just glad that after all these years "Superman V" did not end up sucking all sorts of ass.
That was really well-put. I too, saw Batman Begins and felt a little underwhelmed when I saw it. When I heard it was the best Batman movie by a mile, I had very high expectations. I remember Batman '89 shot for shot, musical cue for musical cue and I could recite the lines with ease. I was underwhelmed, but I've seen it countless times since, and I consider it as good as Batman '89, but not better.
Superman Returns, on the other hand, I went into with lower expectations. I loved the Donner films, but the scale of special effects I knew Singer was offering would be awesome. Singer is no slouch with story too, so I was pumped for that. Some people think that Singer was a slouch with telling the story, but I disagree. He passed up the chance to do an origin story, because the original Superman did it perfectly, and Smallville is still fresh in some people's minds.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-01-2006, 07:11 PM
Well, I think Begins is still king of the charts.....but I could see someone saying it's better. I'm, obviously, bias.
StorminNorman
07-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Well, he has no friends......so, why would anyone really care to begin with? He's nothing but some silk shirt wearing rich boy.
I think it makes sense why, though. Superman has tons of hype surrounding it. ANY film with that much hype can never please everyone. It's statistically impossible. Batman Begins pretty much snuck under the radar with the little hype it had.
Yeah, totally. I think people, fanboys and all, went into this expecting the "classic ****"....ya know, same 'ol same 'ol, things that we all know have been done in the comics, and the cartoons. I think everyone imagined it'd be like that.
Problem is, it's not. It's a really ballsy film. It takes the mythos and takes them to an all new level, to a level even the comics haven't taken them.....and I think it's just scary for a lot of people to see that happen.
Personally, I loved the film. I think the tone, the scenes, the homages, (the Gotham mention was cool), and the film was just hands down....incredible. It's not the way I would have done it, it's not the story I would have told.....but just b/c it's different doesn't mean it's not good.
I don't think it's better than Batman, but I think it's about par. It's definitely number 2 on my list.
I guess if there's anything that Batman Begins had, that I would have like in Superman Rerturns, is the total focus on the Hero. There was alot of Lex in here, alot more than than I thought there would be. But.....he NEEDED it, so to build up the story.
Very well put CBBatman - as always. :up:
CrimsonMist
07-01-2006, 08:13 PM
thought Superman Returns was a better film. I was fine with it being the 3rd film to the original two. I think Superman's origin is known by EVERYONE, due to the George Reeves show, Donner's film, the cartoon show, Smallville, the comic revamps. There isnt much to explain, unlike with BB.
In BB, as much as i enjoyed it, i still wish they didnt have the whole Year One Batman taking on terrorists and super villains. It becomes the typical Bad guy tries to destory city, Hero saves the day(and yes, Superman had this as well). I still wish they went with a Year One film...i find the basis much better. Batman saving the city from itself.
I think another factor is that we got Superman from the get go. BB was an origin film.
Both had plot holes, people still debate the 3rd act of BB. The only noticable plot hole in SR that i saw the first time was where he got the space ship to go back into Space...but it didnt bother me.
both were damn good films. But i enjoyed Superman Returns far more. I've been finding Batman Begins kind of boring lately anyway...the last 2 times i've tried to watch the dvd, i couldnt finish it.
but i still think that the BB sequel will destroy. It sounds amazing
trustyside-kick
07-01-2006, 10:10 PM
Batman Begins is a way better film than Superman Returns.
Even though Batman Begins was an origin film it was still better than Superman Return being 'Superman 3b' and taking so many things that practically made it an echo of the first film. Batman Begins did not only make Batman's origin more defined by showing what happened during that gap of him not being in Gotham (since it was never really done in the comics) but they decided to take a new realistic approach that worked well.
I loved both films...but I would not like a sequel to Superman Returns (unless they change the style and my god please show a villain besides Lex Luthor)...but I would definetly love sequels for Batman Begins (and they are signed for 3 films so my wish has been granted long ago :P).
ReptileOrion
07-01-2006, 11:33 PM
I watched Superman Returns on Wednesday night. It was an enjoyable movie but in my opinion it doesn't top Batman Begins. I am more of a Batman fan than Superman but the story in SR was a bit lacking. The setup was great. When Superman made his return and averted the launch disaster I felt like Singer is getting it right. He obviously did his research but the second half of the movie simply wasn't as good as the first. I felt like it needed more. Routh is a great Superman and he did win me over. The scene where I felt like "Routh is Superman" was the bank heist scene. Batman Begins on the other end was solid throughout. As a Bat fan I felt like Nolan is the one director to finally give the character justice. Bale topped Keaton and scene where Bats is interrogating Flask I was thinking "Bale is Batman". To put it simply....Superman did return but as usual he can't top the Bat.
batman44
07-01-2006, 11:35 PM
Personally I liked BB more, but SR was pretty darn good. The sequels for both these films is what I really want to get to.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-02-2006, 02:40 AM
I felt it was great, better than SPIDEY 2.....Better than X2, But not as good or maybe even with Batman Begins. I think my being a comic book fan has something to do with that.
The homages were great though. I mean, the beginning was exactly like the Superman films before.
thedarks0ldier
07-02-2006, 08:26 AM
Hightlight to read:
It's about Joker?
I think so
ChrisBaleBatman
07-03-2006, 12:22 AM
Probably. Not many killer clowns in the world, ya know.
thedarks0ldier
07-03-2006, 12:51 AM
They were all just a bad dream right?Yea, and those things in the sky, just, uh, weather ballons.
CConn
07-03-2006, 02:46 AM
I think soActually, I think it had something to do with Brutus having a clown's faced tattooed onto the back of his head.
I'm not sure, but I think it is.
FCEEVIPER
07-03-2006, 05:45 AM
Personally I liked BB more, but SR was pretty darn good. The sequels for both these films is what I really want to get to.
Same here. :up:
Ultimate_Superman
07-03-2006, 08:03 AM
Superman Returns had alot of plot holes that will never come to light in the way it was meant to some of the plot holes
- Lex and Stanford was behind the findings of Krypton and Superman leaving. Thinking he would die in space
-Ma Kent has moved on and has a boyfriend leaving Clark/Kal-El thinking he has lost his place in the world
-The return trip to Krypton according to the book plays a some what big part when Superman see New Krypton
I mean they may not seem to big there but if you read the book they are pretty huge moments that makes the story more well round problem is if all these parts were left in the movie we would have over a 3 hr Superman movie.
I've seen Returns now, and Begins is still mt favorite comic book movie. Returns had alot of great stuff, and maybe I'm a little bias being a Batman fan since I was a kid, but IMO Begins is better.
I dont know if you guys notice this but Perry White asked Jimmy Olsen how the "Birthday Clown Massacre" pictures are coming along.
I also liked the brief mention of Gotham, setting up a World's Finest movie?
:batman: +:supes: =:eek: :up:
Nightwing92
07-03-2006, 11:52 AM
I also liked the brief mention of Gotham, setting up a World's Finest movie?
:batman: +:supes: =:eek: :up:
Ya i liked brief mentioning of gotham too....... If there is a worlds finest movie (which i think there is) it will be BADASS....
Stringer
07-03-2006, 02:52 PM
I liked BB a lot more than SR. Both have plot hole but Supermans stuck out more to me. Batman Begins had more of an epic feel to it, Superman Returns felt like we were seeing the same parts of Metropolis throughout the entire movie.
The whole expanding continent plot seemed like it was only happening to 4 people with only quick shots of trouble on Metropolis.
Also Routh didnt really dig into the strain and pain of Superman when he got stabbed or when he was lifting the land mass. (for example Spiderman stopping the train in part II or Bruce pulling Ra's up from the Mountain in Begins)
All that said though I think the Superman sequel has the chance to be the best comic to film movie ever.
All that said though I think the Superman sequel has the chance to be the best comic to film movie ever.
The same could be said of the Batman sequel.
Nightwing92
07-03-2006, 03:29 PM
The same could be said of the Batman sequel.
Again i say.... there won't be much competition between both sequels .... both of them will be excellent no doubt about that.....
CConn
07-03-2006, 04:28 PM
The same could be said of the Batman sequel.The same is said for the Batman sequel.
Except by TheSlag, but who listens to him anyway.
The same is said for the Batman sequel.
I know I've said it.
I was thinking, in the SR sequel they're going to have to deal more with the kid, and maybe even bring up the ol' mind wiping kiss from Superman II, ugh.:down Hopefully we'll get Supes fighting Brainiac or something to keep things interesting.
Meanwhile the Batman franchise is only going up. Katie Holmes should be gone, and they're going to have Joker, should be even better than Begins.
iceberg325
07-03-2006, 05:24 PM
BB is much much better that SR. No question about it.
Stringer
07-03-2006, 06:48 PM
I know I've said it.
I was thinking, in the SR sequel they're going to have to deal more with the kid, and maybe even bring up the ol' mind wiping kiss from Superman II, ugh.:down
Now if they continue with the focus on that storyline then it will be disappointing, at least in my eyes. I want, and Im sure most people want, to see Superman fight a villian that shows off why he's Superman. Also if they bring Singer back he needs to cut down on all the homage and try to create an original film of his own.
CConn
07-03-2006, 07:15 PM
I know I've said it.
I was thinking, in the SR sequel they're going to have to deal more with the kid, and maybe even bring up the ol' mind wiping kiss from Superman II, ugh.:down Hopefully we'll get Supes fighting Brainiac or something to keep things interesting.
Meanwhile the Batman franchise is only going up. Katie Holmes should be gone, and they're going to have Joker, should be even better than Begins.In the SR novel, after Supes throws New Krypton into space, it begins to transform into Brainiac. Hope that'll happen in the sequel. I sorta doubt the kiss'll be mentioned. Singer seems to love making STM homages, but seems to avoid Superman II pretty well.
I'm actually really looking forward to seeing the father and son angle with the kid explored some more. I thought one of the more beautiful things about SR was how at the beginning, Supes felt totally alone, then by the end, he wasn't alone anymore - and had a son to boot. It could be really well-developed in the sequels.
Of course, I may just be overly optimistic after Singer handled this potentially disasterous plotline in SR extremely well.
I'll agree he pulled it off better than I expected, but I still don't like the idea.
For a sequel I want to see less Lois/love triangle, and more action. And not Superman saving stuff action, I want to see him have a Superman II-like brawl.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-03-2006, 07:25 PM
Actually, I think it had something to do with Brutus having a clown's faced tattooed onto the back of his head.
I'm not sure, but I think it is.
It actually looked like a dog to me.
Now if they continue with the focus on that storyline then it will be disappointing, at least in my eyes. I want, and Im sure most people want, to see Superman fight a villian that shows off why he's Superman. Also if they bring Singer back he needs to cut down on all the homage and try to create an original film of his own.
I dunno, it's probably best to start Superman off like this.....exploring why he really is Superman, and not why people THINK he is Superman.
In the SR novel, after Supes throws New Krypton into space, it begins to transform into Brainiac. Hope that'll happen in the sequel. I sorta doubt the kiss'll be mentioned. Singer seems to love making STM homages, but seems to avoid Superman II pretty well.
Wow, I didn't know that. I should check out the book. That, right there, would point to a Brainiac story for the sequel.....although, kinda in the same way that Talia was hinted at in the Batman Begins novel and DVD.
I'm actually really looking forward to seeing the father and son angle with the kid explored some more. I thought one of the more beautiful things about SR was how at the beginning, Supes felt totally alone, then by the end, he wasn't alone anymore - and had a son to boot. It could be really well-developed in the sequels.
Yup, I dug it too.
Of course, I may just be overly optimistic after Singer handled this potentially disasterous plotline in SR extremely well.
I'd agree....if you had told me the plot outline, with the basic point of the story....I probably would have hated it, and it would have blown. But, Singer made it all work.
Mr.E.Nygma
07-05-2006, 08:47 PM
Sorry for the pop-up interruption you shal say, but
BEGINS DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!
trustyside-kick
07-05-2006, 09:15 PM
^Darn skippy.
zer00
07-05-2006, 09:48 PM
Superman Returns.
Still love BB dearly of course. I had sex with the DVD yesterday. I can also get over liking something that doesn't have batman in it.
iceberg325
07-05-2006, 10:17 PM
I dont think supes had enough "Umph" in it to beat out BB. Better BO numbers but IMO BB is a much better movie.
trustyside-kick
07-05-2006, 10:19 PM
I can care less about the Box Office numbers...just like I can care less about what a critic thinks of a film (good or bad).
iceberg325
07-05-2006, 10:22 PM
I can care less about the Box Office numbers...just like I can care less about what a critic thinks of a film (good or bad).
Some of the best movies dont even do good in the BO. Those numbers mean nothing. Hell scooby doo had better first weekend numbers than superman returns. Is it a better movie, NO!!!!!!!!!! BO #'s suck!!!
trustyside-kick
07-05-2006, 10:23 PM
I only mentioned my opinion on it cause you mentioned it. :P
iceberg325
07-05-2006, 10:56 PM
I only mentioned my opinion on it cause you mentioned it. :P
I know lol. I was just eloborating on your statement. The BO numbers mean crap lol.
Jinnobi
07-05-2006, 11:05 PM
Superman Returns was better, but not by much.
I loved it, and I'm not even a Superman fan. I love Batman, however.
Critics are always wrong anyways. They hardly ever give the credit a good superhero movie deserves or build up the ones that aren't that good. Such as F4, Hulk. The Punisher didn't get as much hype, and I thought it was a good film.
trustyside-kick
07-05-2006, 11:16 PM
Punisher was good...but Fantastic Four and Hulk just sucked.
I liked the style they went with with Hulk but it went too sci-fi for me; the ending mainly.
Fantastic Four?....story...I hated them having a machine to "turn them back" and crap like that. I hear they are making some sequel to it that is supposed to be written so much better that will make you forget about the first.
CConn
07-06-2006, 02:18 AM
Superman Returns was better, but not by much.
I loved it, and I'm not even a Superman fan. I love Batman, however.
Critics are always wrong anyways. They hardly ever give the credit a good superhero movie deserves or build up the ones that aren't that good. Such as F4, Hulk. The Punisher didn't get as much hype, and I thought it was a good film.http://img2.imagepile.net/img2/43584182.jpg
JINNOBI!
iceberg325
07-06-2006, 09:26 AM
Punisher was good...but Fantastic Four and Hulk just sucked.
I liked the style they went with with Hulk but it went too sci-fi for me; the ending mainly.
Fantastic Four?....story...I hated them having a machine to "turn them back" and crap like that. I hear they are making some sequel to it that is supposed to be written so much better that will make you forget about the first.
I actually bought FF4 the other day to give it a chance, and I must say that I didnt like it at all. I actually hated it more the second time than the first.
Zilleraut #66
07-06-2006, 09:38 AM
Does anyone else find it funny that HBO has been showing the older Batman movies more than BB? I really hope that the WB doesn't go that route again.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-06-2006, 07:13 PM
They're giving a special HEROES AND VILLIANS section on HBO ON DEMAND.
They have BATMAN, BATMAN AND ROBIN(****!), BATMAN BEGINS, Batman Begins: Batmobile, Batman Begins: The Fights, Batman Begins: The Sets, Superman the Movie, Superman II, Superman (Returns) 06: Scene, Superman (Returns) 06: Sneak, and.........Catwoman.
It's just a comic book type special they're doing since SR is out.
The only things SR could have used were fight scenes, and more Clark. Other than that, the movie is ****ing awesome. Numer 2 in my book.
Jinnobi
07-06-2006, 10:13 PM
Superman is Superman. I don't really remember him fighting anyone. Batman fought like 50 different people. He had the best villains which made him so much more interesting.
drunkhomer
07-07-2006, 04:55 AM
my opinion is BB is better then SR
Lane Myer
07-09-2006, 07:05 PM
I liked BB way more that SR. For me it was the fact that I felt like I could relate to Batman. Plus it was darker.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-10-2006, 07:07 PM
Well, I felt like I could relate to Superman too.
CConn......are you sure that Brainiac thing happened?
Ronny Shade
07-11-2006, 12:39 PM
I vote Superman Returns
yes. I do.
Superman Returns reminded of just how good Batman Begins is. I appreciate BB a whole lot more now.
Octoberist
07-12-2006, 03:28 AM
Superman returns didn't push the button.
Singer created a weird paradox: He played it safe (Donner influences) while making changes that left me scratching my head (the kid).
I just thought that while the plot was good, the execution was very off. There were so many contridictions and plot holes that challeged my suspension of disbelief.
And to me, Gene Hackman's Lex worked back in the 70s. Now, he wouldn't work out espically when he has to go against the likes of Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow, and whatever.
"The real estate agent from hell" Lex is not much of a threat and to me, it was a mistake on Singer's part to include him in 'Returns'. It sucks when you have the more improved version of Lex now, with the corperate and political ties. And it's weird how Singer picked and chose what he wanted from the Donner films via 'vague history' and he kept "Real Estate Conman" Lex.
CConn
07-12-2006, 03:31 AM
We don't have that improved version of Luthor anymore, ironically.
casketmouth
07-12-2006, 03:40 AM
Who cares? Both movies are/will be excellent and revived dead franchises of two of the greatest superheros ever
how wrong could you possibly be...SR = yuk!!!!
Octoberist
07-12-2006, 03:48 AM
We don't have that improved version of Luthor anymore, ironically.
From what I know, Luthor is now a mix of Lexcorp and 'mad scientist with the green/purple outfit' personas right?
At least the pre-crisis Lex is still an actual threat. He was the leader of the Legion of Doom for God's sakes, not a conman who likes wigs.
ChrisBaleBatman
07-12-2006, 09:55 AM
I dunno.....Lex seemed odd to me. I mean, he at times was slightly camp......but then he would turn and just be so goddamn evil. I think that beating he gave Superman is a fine example of what this Lex is capable of, despite some calling him "campy".
superman returns should of had brainiac, parasite, or sum other villian
Jlandsw
07-13-2006, 06:45 AM
Superman Returns PERIOD
Two-Face
07-13-2006, 06:54 AM
Superman Returns PERIOD
That's cos you're fan of Supes.
Mr. Vice
07-13-2006, 09:17 AM
This might be off-topic, but CConn, you have the best avatar ever:up:
P.B.&Chocolate
07-13-2006, 10:53 AM
I like both movies and characters.Right now I like SR more because it worked so well for me .It's better than I expected in that it's Superman as you've known him for years but more relevent for our time.Both Brandon Routh and Chritian Bale do justice to Batman and Superman .I look forward to both sequels .
El Payaso
07-13-2006, 11:40 PM
I am a Batman fan. I never post on Superman forum. But I liked SR better than BB, being BB a great movie.
Shawn Wayne
07-14-2006, 05:26 PM
Begins all the way. Superman Returns was just off the mark, But Routh did a great job, if there's a sequel I hope they bring him back
ArmsHeldOut
07-16-2006, 12:09 PM
Both films appealed to me on different levels. Obviously, Begins is the more creative and original of the two and I found the film to be very intellectually stimulating. I especially loved the confrontation between Falcone and Wayne prior to his self-imposed exile from Gotham. The whole notion that someone whom is perceived as a Paris Hilton type could never relate to a world filled with corruption, deceit and crime. You can really see why Bruce becomes so frustrated to the effect he simply walks away from a pampered lifestyle to better understand the mindset of a criminal. As is the case with many films of a complex nature, Batman Begins might not grab you right away, but upon further repeat viewings you come to appreciate what a masterpiece it truly is.
Superman Returns, on the other hand followed the same formula initially used in bringing the original Donner/Reeve works to life. In the hands of a capable director, you just can't go wrong with that. From the moment you sit down and listen to the wonderful score that is so memorable, you can't help, but feel like a kid again. Returns is simply a lot of fun and I enjoyed it much.
I actually feel that both Nolan and Singer could learn a little from the other in certain areas of expertise. As much as I came away smiling from my first viewing of Superman Returns, it goes without saying that the script for the film was unimpressive and simplistic, in contrast to the epic tale that is Batman Begins. Batman too suffered from a few minor flaws, most notably the lack of emotion shown on the part of Bruce Wayne, in addition to weak attempts at humor.
I will say that going into Superman, I had no pre-conceived notions of what the film might be like and sometimes that is the best way to embrace a film for all that it can be. With Batman, I made the mistake of going overboard with spoilers (the leaked script, tv spots, numerous web images, etc.) and it's more than likely my initial experience of the film was hampered by the fact I was exposed to just too much. Next time around, I'll be sure to keep at least one eye shut!
So which of the two films shines brightest in my opinion? Batman Begins, but Superman Returns is one helluva good summer movie!
aquiles
07-16-2006, 03:17 PM
Superman Returns PERIOD
realize that the movie suck big-time man, it doesnt have a comparison with batman begins man, and im telling you im a fan of both chracters both singer did not do justice for the man of steel
StorminNorman
07-16-2006, 03:56 PM
how wrong could you possibly be...SR = yuk!!!!
Your maturity overwhelms me.
StorminNorman
07-16-2006, 03:56 PM
I watched Superman Returns again recently and I still rank it just a notch above Batman Begins.
iceberg325
07-16-2006, 04:03 PM
I watched Superman Returns again recently and I still rank it just a notch above Batman Begins.
A notch above Batman begins? Why? How? Theres no way possible!!!!!!
StorminNorman
07-16-2006, 04:08 PM
A notch above Batman begins? Why? How? Theres no way possible!!!!!!
.
I didnt think so either....and then I saw V for Vendetta and Superman Returns. WB is really clicking IMO.
iceberg325
07-16-2006, 04:10 PM
.
I didnt think so either....and then I saw V for Vendetta and Superman Returns. WB is really clicking IMO.
Im not saying that no movie can surpass it, Im just saying theres no way IMO that SR is better than BB. I loved V, great movie, just thought BB is a better comic film.
StorminNorman
07-16-2006, 04:14 PM
Im not saying that no movie can surpass it, Im just saying theres no way IMO that SR is better than BB. I loved V, great movie, just thought BB is a better comic film.
Batman Begins was fantastic, I love it to death, I just think SR passed it.
JLBats
07-16-2006, 04:54 PM
SR was in no way, shape or form better than Batman Begins if put under any sort of critical analysis. However, it did inspire a sense of wonder, and I suppose if you react to film on a purely visceral level, it might be considered better to you.
The Chairman
07-16-2006, 04:58 PM
For me, they're both on the same level, but if I had to choose, I'd go with BB.
himynameiskevin
07-20-2006, 03:29 PM
They were both great
wootbaby
07-21-2006, 05:23 AM
I enjoyed SR more than I expected to. BB is a superior movie .
1) BB is original material. nolan knew what he wanted to say and it's his vision beginning to end. SR is a homage to Donner and the movie suffers because Singer is overlly constrained and is never able to deliver a clear message of who his superman is.
2) although Singer builds around this by adding his own elements like the kid, the major issue with SR is that it's essentially missing an emotional center. WHO is superman? where has he been, how has his absense affected those around him? WHY does he love lois? what are his intentions for her? it's like superman is this sad guy sleepwalking through the entire movie. you never connect with him like you did in the donner films. basically in basing his film around donner's original singer copies all the external aspects of donner and misses the heart
3) BR puts Batman (not the rogue's gallery) at the center of the piece. Batman is the most interesting character in the Batman universe. a smart director uses him as the centerpiece and uses other pieces (villians) as counterweights to ramp up tension and action. this is the first movie to do that
4) pacing in BB is superior. In BR, nolan starts things off very obtuse, you dont really know what's going on, and the only thing you really understand is an overwhelming sense of rage on the part of bruce wayne. as nolan opens up the movie and you learn more about what bruce is going through nolan starts to color in the nuances of what's going on. you start to understand what Batman is willing and NOT willing to do in his quest. you see what shaped him, what obstacles he's overcome. by the end of the movie you truly understand WHO batman. that's character growth and 3dimensionality that you dont have in SR
5) BB is the only one of the 2 action movies which actually has a good amount of action
6) BB has better casting
7) BB makes better and more clever use of the surrounding cast of the DC universe. scarecrow > luthor. alfred > lois lane
8) BB has a more interesting plot with definite points of beginning, middle and end. superman just sort of floats along with no real resolution at the end... what happens to luthor. what's going on with lois. what's the deal with the kid? even in a series, each movie should stand on its own.
wootbaby
07-21-2006, 05:26 AM
I enjoyed SR more than I expected to. BB is a superior movie .
1) BB is original material. nolan knew what he wanted to say and it's his vision beginning to end. SR is a homage to Donner and the movie suffers because Singer is overlly constrained and is never able to deliver a clear message of what his superman is about
2) although Singer builds around this by adding his own elements like the kid, the major issue with SR is that it's essentially missing an emotional center. WHO is superman? where has he been, how has his absense affected those around him? WHY does he love lois? what are his intentions for her? it's like superman is this sad guy sleepwalking through the entire movie. you never connect with him like you did in the donner films. basically in basing his film around donner's original singer copies all the external aspects of donner and misses the heart
3) BR puts Batman (not the rogue's gallery) at the center of the piece. Batman is the most interesting character in the Batman universe. a smart director uses him as the centerpiece and uses other pieces (villians) as counterweights to ramp up tension and action. this is the first movie to do that
4) pacing in BB is superior. In BR, nolan starts things off very obtuse, you dont really know what's going on, and the only thing you really understand is an overwhelming sense of rage on the part of bruce wayne. as nolan opens up the movie and you learn more about what bruce is going, nolan starts to color in the nuances of what's going on. you start to understand what Batman is willing and NOT willing to do in his quest. you see what shaped him, what obstacles he's overcome. by the end of the movie you truly understand WHO batman. that's character growth and 3dimensionality that you dont have in SR
5) BB is the only one of the 2 action movies which actually has a good amount of action
6) BB has better casting
7) BB makes better and more clever use of the surrounding cast of the DC universe. scarecrow > luthor. alfred > lois lane
8) BB has a more interesting plot with definite points of beginning, middle and end. superman just sort of floats along with no real resolution at the end... what happens to luthor. what's going on with lois. what's the deal with the kid? even in a series, each movie should stand on its own.
Anita18
07-22-2006, 03:57 AM
2) although Singer builds around this by adding his own elements like the kid, the major issue with SR is that it's essentially missing an emotional center. WHO is superman? where has he been, how has his absense affected those around him? WHY does he love lois? what are his intentions for her? it's like superman is this sad guy sleepwalking through the entire movie. you never connect with him...
Completely agree with you there, even if I don't recall ever seeing the Donner films, LOL. I felt that both SR and BB were beautiful visually, and I did feel viscerally for Supes when he's down, but I didn't connect with the character like I did in BB.
8) BB has a more interesting plot with definite points of beginning, middle and end. superman just sort of floats along with no real resolution at the end... what happens to luthor. what's going on with lois. what's the deal with the kid? even in a series, each movie should stand on its own.
Actually, one of the things that I felt SR lacked was a feeling of continuation. By the end of BB, I was like, "Awww, no more???" It feels like an ending, and at the same time it doesn't since loose ends aren't completely tied up yet, and Bats' job isn't done. I actually felt that SR would be better off as a stand-alone movie, since almost all of the ends are already tied up. Sure, Luthor's still alive, but he's stuck on a island with no resources. Supes has a kid, but it seems like he's going to let Jason grow up with Lois and Richard. What's there to continue? Unless they want to draw out the kid storyline some more...In BB, you've got the asylum loonies still on the loose, Gordon's little speech about "escalation", and the Joker making an entrance. I mean, bring it on!
BatMatt
07-22-2006, 03:18 PM
Finally got around to seeing Superman Returns, and I dont believe it even comes close to Batman Begins. Sure, its a very very good movie, but it just didn't leave me blown away after seeing it. It, imo, lacked that lasting effect as I left the theater.
Finally got around to seeing Superman Returns, and I dont believe it even comes close to Batman Begins. Sure, its a very very good movie, but it just didn't leave me blown away after seeing it. It, imo, lacked that lasting effect as I left the theater.
I'd say some of the scenes and things in the movie blew me away, but I agree not the movie itself. It was good, but not as good as Begins.
Sharkboy
07-23-2006, 10:09 AM
I really dont agree with the SR haters i thought it was a pretty good movie, flawed but good nonetheless, i'd expect the sequel to rock even more tho. on the topic tho, im a bat-fan thru and thru so i could be biased, but this topic should be batman begins vs spider-man 2 which i think are the best superhero movies out there at the moment. superman returns isnt even in batman begins LEAGUE.
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