Superman Villain in Sequel

[BobJM]

Ok, now I know that there are a few threads on this topic, but none have a poll attached to them. Now that the movie has been released (although I won't be seeing it until tomorrow), I believe that it is a good time to see if people's opinions have changed or stayed the same.

In the poll above, you are allowed to vote for multiple villains because, as we all know, superhero flicks often have villains team up to stop the protagonist from succeeding.

Out of the choices above, I feel that either Brainiac or Metallo should be paired up with Luthor (obviously).

If we want Superman's conflict to be not only external but internal, Brainiac could be a great challenge. With his knowledge of Krypton, he could easily tease the Man of Steel by dangling information on the dead planet right in front of him. Also with his knowledge of the long forgotten planet, Brainiac would know all of Superman's weaknesses, namely Kryptonite. Also, with Luthor thrown in the mix, we could have Lexiac, two of Superman's greatest foes combined.

Now, as interesting as Brainiac might be, he could come off as being a bit cheesy and unrealistic. I know that this is Superman and nothing is really that realistic, but sometimes his villains can turn out to be Star Wars rip offs. Metallo, a mercenary for hire, could be a great threat to Superman. With his Kryptonite heart and his metal body, Superman would be in grave danger. With Luthor's knowledge and money on his side as well, Metallo can prove to be a greater danger, not only to Superman, but to the city of Metropolis.

So, once again, if you're looking for a physical/psychological fight-Brainiac is the right choice (he also fits in with the whole New Krypton storyline for SR).

But, if you're looking for a spectacular eye candy fest with a super-powered foe with strength that can match Superman's-Metallo is the one.

Which is better?

Computer vs. Alien

Man of Metal vs. Man of Steel

[Silver Lantern]

I would like to see villains that have never been in a superman movie...i like Zod and his patners but they have been done. If superman Returns is making new waves for new movies id rather see villains team up like Parasite and Metallo as the main villains and a appearance by Superboy or Supergirl helping. The last movie I want to see Doomsday and the death of Superman just so the movie goes out in a awsome way.

[BobJM]

I would like to see villains that have never been in a superman movie...i like Zod and his patners but they have been done. If superman Returns is making new waves for new movies id rather see villains team up like Parasite and Metallo as the main villains and a appearance by Superboy or Supergirl helping. The last movie I want to see Doomsday and the death of Superman just so the movie goes out in a awsome way.

The day that Superboy and Supergirl are introduced in this franchise is the day that it dies and becomes just like the infamous Batman franchise.

Doomsday isn't really that great of a villain. He's just some dumb giant that's strong. The only thing he's famous for is the death of Superman. I don't think that storyline would translate well on screen. Having clones and Eradicator and all that junk...leave it on the comic book pages.

The last movie needs to be something epic and exciting. I don't think Darkseid will ever be introduced, nor do I think Apocalypse will be introduced in the X-Men films. Both characters, while amazingly cool, are a bit too far fetched.

Here's what I would do.

SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL

Villain- Metallo, Lex Luthor

SUPERMAN: LAST SON OF KRYPTON

Villain - Brainiac, Luthor (Lexiac possibly)

[aroundthefur33]

darkseid would be cool, but i am betting on brainaic, luthor...

[Shadow_Knight]

I really don't gie a crap about Superman but still I'll still vote.

I voted for Bizzarro.

[Lightning54SC]

brainiac, luther and metallo..... brainiac gives luther the idea to creating metallo

[GarudA]

Darkseid, his just so cool far more interesting and can give Superman a beat in, I would love to know how they would use him in the movie, explain where he comes from and what he wants.

[Spike_x1]

I'd rather Darkseid and the whole Fourth World crew be used in their own movie. God knows they deserve it. Cramming them into a Superman movie wouldn't do them justice.

Lex creates the Parasite for me. :up:

[The Question]

I think Brainiac should show up, and create Parasite and Metallo as a means of testing Supes, and later simply having them as people to fight Supes on his behalf. Eventually, Metallo (and maybe Parasite, although I doubt he'd care) would turn on Brainbiac when he finds out what he plans to do to the Earth.

[arty2]

Bring on Darkseid!!!!

[GreenKToo]

Brainiac or Darkseid.

[Sub-Zero]

parasite would be the awesome. he's one of the few who could hold his own against superman, and he could go after supes's loved ones once he's drained supes and learns everything about him. and if they go with the alien invasion route, brainiac and or darksied would be badass. i just want to see someone who doesn't have kryptonite to fight supes.

[Ultimate Josh]

well a brief description of what I would like as villains in the sequel will be...

Superman Returns sequel

Metallo, with Lex and Brainiac behind building him.

Superman returns 3
Brainiac, with Bizzaro as a pawn in the beging of the film, and Lex build the ultimate body for Brainiac, Brainiac overpowers Lex. Brainiac goes in a rampage. Superman has an intense fight with him.

The types of fight sequences I would like would would be as follows.

Metallo, a ground fight. Superman uses his powers like laser vision, arctic breath to try and stall. lots of punches and kick's. I would like it if it was very intense. number of fights through out the movie. With Richard dying. If you read my Superman returns detailed Summary you will know why sort of.also in this battle Superman bleeds so that's what makes Bizzaro, in Superman Returns 3. I think about 3 battles, with the last one being the longest, and most dramatic, and intense

Bizarro, air battle. They fight in the air and clash against each other. They punch each other through wall's, they tackle each other. They have pretty intense air fight. number of fights 1

Brainiac, This is the best battle out of Bryans trilogy. Lex has created with Brainiacs knowledge of the universe , the strongest machine. Brainiac is downloaded on to the powerful body and is soooo strong, that Superman has to go full rage!! The trick is Brainiac can also learn Superman's Powers!! Brainiac can absorb what he wants to! If he wants heat vision, watch superman do it learn it use it! He can also learn how to gain the suns energy, so Superman has to also use his brain, to defeat this destroyer of planets...
number of fights 1.

Thats what I think on villains, and battles.http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Ben Urich]

I'd love to see Luthor somehow become a legitimate businessman (I never liked him being motivated by land) and invest heavily in cloning, thus creating Bizarro.

[Anunnaki]

Superman needs lots of villains ganging up and beating him up all at the same time.

I have a crazy idea. Why don't they resurrect the entire Legion of Doom of the old Challenge of the Superfriends cartoons, this time with an adult twist. That flying time-traveling Hall of Doom would be cool. Just needs a Bryan Singer or Tim Burton touch.

Huh? Superman alone vs. The Legion of Doom?

Question: Won't he need the Justice League for this?
Answer: Nope. He can do it alone and that's exciting.

For those of you who were not born yet when the Legion appeared onscreen 20 years ago, here's the member list:

Lex Luthor
Braniac
Solomon Grundy
Gorilla Grodd
Sinestro
Giganta
Cheetah
Capt. Cold
Bizarro
Scarecrow
Toyman
Riddler
Black Manta

[Immortalfire]

Why bother with villains that can actually offer a challenge, when we can have another diabolical real estate scheme? :D :rolleyes:

[Borat]

I would love Darkseid or Doomsday maybe for the 3rd film. Brainiac for the next one just makes the most sense to me. :supes:

[Robin91939]

SUPERMAN RETURNS: Lex Luthor
SUPERMAN: Brainiac, Metallo, and Lex Luthor
SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL: Darkseid

-R

[Sub-Zero]

luthor should stay on that island. bring on metallo, bizarro, parasite, cadmus, and inter-gang all in the same movie. it'll be great!

[DorkyFresh]

parasite would be the awesome. he's one of the few who could hold his own against superman, and he could go after supes's loved ones once he's drained supes and learns everything about him. and if they go with the alien invasion route, brainiac and or darksied would be badass. i just want to see someone who doesn't have kryptonite to fight supes.

yeah i think Parasite is the only villain i can see Singer using. at least he's the only villain i can imagine working for a sequel. all of Superman's other villains are either corny or too sci fi-ish. i know Superman IS a sci fi but he's not sci fi the way Star Wars or Star Trek are.

[Aren]

Brainiac :d

[Spike_x1]

Why bother with villains that can actually offer a challenge, when we can have another diabolical real estate scheme? :D :rolleyes:GENIUS!! :eek: :up: :D

[Savage]

Brainiac. He could be part of the fortress, manipulating Superman through his own father's image...But I'd rather save that for a 3rd movie since he's like...the Ultimate of Superman villains imo. For the second movie I'd like it to be Metallo. I could see him being created by Lex. I like Parasite and I want him to be included but...I'm having trouble seeing how...He seems like the type deserving of his own movie really.

[KON - EL]

it has to brainiac no doubt about it.

[Ben Urich]

Brainiac is the Ra's al Ghul to Superman. Really his biggest threat (apart from maybe Darkseid).

[miba2007]

OMG! Bizarro! Best action fights. That could cast Tom Welling as Bizarro! lol

[GarudA]

Please No More Luther

Darkseid Dammit

[Mr. Credible]

The day that Superboy and Supergirl are introduced in this franchise is the day that it dies and becomes just like the infamous Batman franchise.

Doomsday isn't really that great of a villain. He's just some dumb giant that's strong. The only thing he's famous for is the death of Superman. I don't think that storyline would translate well on screen. Having clones and Eradicator and all that junk...leave it on the comic book pages.

The last movie needs to be something epic and exciting. I don't think Darkseid will ever be introduced, nor do I think Apocalypse will be introduced in the X-Men films. Both characters, while amazingly cool, are a bit too far fetched.

Here's what I would do.

SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL

Villain- Metallo, Lex Luthor

SUPERMAN: LAST SON OF KRYPTON

Villain - Brainiac, Luthor (Lexiac possibly)

couldn't have said it better.

[Uncanny]

I would love Darkseid or Doomsday maybe for the 3rd film. Brainiac for the next one just makes the most sense to me. :supes:

I think you are right. Brainiac in the 2nd, then Darkseid or Doomsday for the 3nd.

[BobJM]

couldn't have said it better.

Always nice to have someone who agrees with you.

[Lt. Figgnuts]

I think maybe they should ease off on Luthor in the sequel. Not necessarily omit him entirely because I loved Spacey's portrayal, but maybe ease off a bit.

Anyway, I think Brainiac is the best bet here, especially if they go the STAS/SV origin route and make him a product of Kryptonian technology. It fits well with the whole "I'm alone in the world" theme from SR, and it gives Supes a villain who is a threat to him physically.

I think the budget would be big enough that they could get away with being elaborate in the costume design for Brainiac, but if they wanted to cut back on the budget they could easily go the SV route - make him a living, sort of T-1000-ish computer, so they could get away with him looking completely human.

Plus, if you have both Lutor (in a smaller role) and Brainiac in the film, you have a nice set-up for a "Lexiac" story in the third film...

[Immortalfire]

Please No More Luther

Darkseid Dammit Write bigger letters, I can't see these.

:D

[GarudA]

Write bigger letters, I can't see these.

:D

I recommend you get one of these :D

http://www.halloweencostumeworld.com/images/29040%20austin%20powers%20glasses.JPG

[SFII]

**** it. i say bring on the whole Legion of Doom ! :D

[blind_fury]

Returns 2 - Darksied with Metallo sidestory

Reurns 3 - Brainiac summons Doomsday

[Jul-el]

Yeah ,I say bring on the Darkster!!!(Darkseid)

[BobJM]

Ok I just got the book "Superman Returns: Strange Visitor". While I originally thought it was like a junior novel, it's actually a prequel to the film about before Superman left for Krypton.

Here's a new idea.

LEX LUTHOR, recent CEO of his new coporate empire LexCorp, has begun to bankroll PROJECT CADMUS, a top secret organization with the sole purpose to prepare counter strikes against Superman should he ever turn on Earth.

DR. VALE, one of the top scientists, introducest he latest plan to several senators and military men of the U.S. government. He has created a metal skeleton made of a rara metal called "metallo". This being, powered by a kryptonite heart, will have the transferred mind of an individual: a former criminal, JOHN CORBEN. Vale believes that the only way to be truly prepared is if Superman lays 6 feet beneath them.

The second part of the plan is BIZARRO, a clone of Superman, created by a single strand of Superman's DNA from a bank robbery scene. This clone is still highly unstable, however, and has taken a ghoulish look. Vale says that there a teams across the world investigating crime scenes, searching for proper DNA samples.

Metallo will be used to destroy the man of steel, while Bizarro (or a better model with a better DNA sample to work off of) can replace Superman, under complete control of Lex Luthor. Screw the real estate plans, Lex wants some power.

During a meteor shower, LOIS LANE (in the middle of an interview in Cadmus' public quaters) takes shelter in the secret facility that lay underground. There she discovers the plans, but before anything can be done about it, SUPERMAN is there to save her and the injured scientists beneath the rubble.

Lex, already aware of JASON'S true father, sends Metallo after him while Bizarro is sent after Lois. The two are captured and it is up to Superman to save the both of them from their deadly captors.

[BULLITT]

Lex Luthor
+
Brainiac

:up:

[Kroc1138]

Of the Villains in the Poll the only ones that I would care to see are:
Darkseid
Brainiac (not based on the STAS version)
Gen Zod
Lex Luthor
Bizzaro

Other:
The Eradicator (if you want a Villain with a Krypton Connection)
Doomsday
Hank Henshaw (Cyborg)
Mongul

Personally, I really don't care to see and hope to God that Brainiac (if introduced in a later movie) is not like the one used in S:TAS or Smallville. I think there are other Villains out there with a Krypton Origin that can be used. I think that Superman Returns can set up the Eradicator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_%28comics%29). Brainiac should be more faithful to the comic Origins but be a mix of both PreCrisis Brainiac and Post Crisis.

[Sub-Zero]

i don't know, kroc. i'm a little sick of seeing kryptonian villains on screen. bring on some cool villains w/o krypton ties. Darksied and an alien invasion would be a great idea for a sequel. bizarro wouldn't succeed as a main villain. i think he's such a pos character. darksied and brainiac are the only ones i can see as main villains. with metallo, he'd be controlled by cadmus, luthor, or intergang. parasite has a chance to carry his own movie, but i really wish superman had better villains.

[cabel]

The kryptonite shard the doctors pulled out of Superman. His blood would be on it. Luthor gets a hold of that blood and use it to clone him. But the cells were damaged by the kryptonite radiation, resulting in an imperfect clone named Bizarro.

[Lobo]

Brainiac should be the villain for the sequel

[thorstone]

Brainiac, just say that out loud; and then realize how ridiculous it would be to hear it in a movie. I could invent a better villain.

[The Overlord]

Of the Villains in the Poll the only ones that I would care to see are:
Darkseid
Brainiac (not based on the STAS version)
Gen Zod
Lex Luthor
Bizzaro

Other:
The Eradicator (if you want a Villain with a Krypton Connection)
Doomsday
Hank Henshaw (Cyborg)
Mongul

Personally, I really don't care to see and hope to God that Brainiac (if introduced in a later movie) is not like the one used in S:TAS or Smallville. I think there are other Villains out there with a Krypton Origin that can be used. I think that Superman Returns can set up the Eradicator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_%28comics%29). Brainiac should be more faithful to the comic Origins but be a mix of both PreCrisis Brainiac and Post Crisis.

Your ideas are too convoluted, you have suggested in the past Brainiac should be a humanoid in one movie and a robot in another, that is stupid and confusing. He should be one or the other.

It might be hard to make him the main computer system of Krypton at this point, but I liked STAS. I say stick mainly with the late Pre crisis Brainiac (robot skull look), because Post crisis Brainiac sucks. Perhaps make him the main computer system of Colu, who decided to blow up its own planet, so that he can retain the planet's knowledge for itself. Then it repeats the process across the universe until it gets to Earth. Of the other villains of Kryptonian origin, Zod has been used already, so I want to see someone different and Doomsday is a crap villain, he is more of plot device than a character.

Also I don't like Hank Henshaw, I think he is another bad 90s cyborg villain, with an overtly convoluted origin, I think there a billion villains more interesting and less convoluted that lame 90s crap cyborg villain.

[The Overlord]

Brainiac, just say that out loud; and then realize how ridiculous it would be to hear it in a movie. I could invent a better villain.

He doesn't have to call himself Brainiac, he can be unit B-13 or something and the Daily Planet gives him the Brainiac nickname.

[Kroc1138]

Your ideas are too convoluted, you have suggested in the past Brainiac should be a humanoid in one movie and a robot in another, that is stupid and confusing. He should be one or the other.Yeah Like you really completely know how my idea would work. It's an Idea that came from me spur of the moment when I was trying to think of a way to include Brainiac in a Superman Movie. As of now it's an ever evolving idea, but the fact is that I think a new concept for Brainiac should incorporate both aspects from both eras. (Pre and Post Crisis) If you can have Braniac be in Two Movies, then that concept could work just fine.

Why does everything have to be so black and white??

It might be hard to make him the main computer system of Krypton at this point, but I liked STAS.To me the worst version out there. He was just a One Dimensional villain. His motivation is so overly simplistic and dull. Much Like the Borg on Star Trek. They both have goal that lead to an anti-Climactic end. That's juvenile writing at best.

I say stick mainly with the late Pre crisis Brainiac (robot skull look), because Post crisis Brainiac sucks. Perhaps make him the main computer system of Colu, who decided to blow up its own planet, so that he can retain the planet's knowledge for itself. Then it repeats the process across the universe until it gets to Earth. Again STAS Brainiac had the stupidiest motivation ever. I'm going collect all knowledge in the unvierse and destroy it so that only I can posses this knowledge. That and the fact that there is no growth of character, b/c it's in his programming. Even Villains need some change and I think that Brainiac Has Potential to be a good Villain with some depth if handled well.

Of the other villains of Kryptonian origin, Zod has been used already, so I want to see someone different and Doomsday is a crap villain, he is more of plot device than a character.To each his own

Also I don't like Hank Henshaw, I think he is another bad 90s cyborg villain, with an overtly convoluted origin, I think there a billion villains more interesting and less convoluted that lame 90s crap cyborg villain.I disagree with your opinion on Henshaw, but there are ways to de-convolute his backstory. Thats wheat writers do when adapting comics. They think of a way to shorten an simplfy backstories.

[Kroc1138]

i don't know, kroc. i'm a little sick of seeing kryptonian villains on screen. bring on some cool villains w/o krypton ties. Darksied and an alien invasion would be a great idea for a sequel. bizarro wouldn't succeed as a main villain. i think he's such a pos character. darksied and brainiac are the only ones i can see as main villains. with metallo, he'd be controlled by cadmus, luthor, or intergang. parasite has a chance to carry his own movie, but i really wish superman had better villains.Well I don't mind seeing Zod again. I think that there could have been something more added to his character. Watching Superman: The Movie made me think that there might have been a friendship that Both Zod and Jor-El had. There's something to go on.

The Eradicator makes for an interesting Villain too b/c he's not really a Villain and he has a connection to Kal-El since his Predecessor created him.

Bizzaro could be done if you ignore much of how he was portrayed in the comics. Since he was always portrayed as "Superman's retarded Twin" which reeks of camp. They should just make him a bit more of a Villain in the traditional sense, but since he is Superman there is an inner conflict within him.

Metallo to me is just a one trick pony. Too one dimensional and uninteresting.

Parasite is a little better than Metallo, but is too small scale. It's my opinion that Super hero movie sequels should be grander than their predecessors.

Intergang could work in a small capacity.

Cadmus/Paul Wesfield would be another entity that would work well.

[The Overlord]

Yeah Like you really completely know how my idea would work. It's an Idea that came from me spur of the moment when I was trying to think of a way to include Brainiac in a Superman Movie. As of now it's an ever evolving idea, but the fact is that I think a new concept for Brainiac should incorporate both aspects from both eras. (Pre and Post Crisis) If you can have Braniac be in Two Movies, then that concept could work just fine.

Why does everything have to be so black and white??

To me the worst version out there. He was just a One Dimensional villain. His motivation is so overly simplistic and dull. Much Like the Borg on Star Trek. They both have goal that lead to an anti-Climactic end. That's juvenile writing at best.

Again STAS Brainiac had the stupidiest motivation ever. I'm going collect all knowledge in the unvierse and destroy it so that only I can posses this knowledge. That and the fact that there is no growth of character, b/c it's in his programming. Even Villains need some change and I think that Brainiac Has Potential to be a good Villain with some depth if handled well.

To each his own

I disagree with your opinion on Henshaw, but there are ways to de-convolute his backstory. Thats wheat writers do when adapting comics. They think of a way to shorten an simplfy backstories.

You explained that you wanted brainiac to be a robot in one movie and humanoid in another, have you changed your opinion on this, have you decided to stick with one version through out the whole movie series or what, because otherwise its convoluted. If you have an idea, bring it forward. The fact is Post crisis brainiac sucks, he was an alien that took over themind of a circus freak, how stupid is that? Even when you took away the circus freak, post crisis Brainiac was nothing more than generic alien conqueror, the poor man's Darkseid or Despero. The best version was the robot version, the late Pre crisis version, a living computer with a terrfying look, not some idiot in a golf shirt and bloomers and not a lame circus freak. Since the robot version is by the far the best, I must point out that a robot doesn't have character develop, because its a robot.

You don't like Brainiac's motive in STAS, pray tell what was his motive in the comics, to take over the universe? That's original. :rolleyes: Brainiac being a robot with a single all compassing objective is far more interesting to me, than just another generic alien conqueror. Superman would have to face a foe who is unrentless and has to be destroyed to be stopped. That's way better than him being the poor man's Darkseid, another cheap alien conqueror.

The fact is Henshaw was just another lame extreme 90s villain, he was all flash and no substance, in my opinion. There are far more interesting villains out there, than another abortion from the 90s.

[The Overlord]

Well I don't mind seeing Zod again. I think that there could have been something more added to his character. Watching Superman: The Movie made me think that there might have been a friendship that Both Zod and Jor-El had. There's something to go on.

The Eradicator makes for an interesting Villain too b/c he's not really a Villain and he has a connection to Kal-El since his Predecessor created him.

Bizzaro could be done if you ignore much of how he was portrayed in the comics. Since he was always portrayed as "Superman's retarded Twin" which reeks of camp. They should just make him a bit more of a Villain in the traditional sense, but since he is Superman there is an inner conflict within him.

Metallo to me is just a one trick pony. Too one dimensional and uninteresting.

Parasite is a little better than Metallo, but is too small scale. It's my opinion that Super hero movie sequels should be grander than their predecessors.

Intergang could work in a small capacity.

Cadmus/Paul Wesfield would be another entity that would work well.

Yes who needs new ideas, lets rip off superman II and use Zod again. No new ideas or villains need apply. :rolleyes:

Edicator and Henshaw are products off lame 90s gimmick story telling, they both deserve never to be heard from again. At least Metallo isn't a 90s badboy.

Bizzaro, they already had Superman fight an evil clone in Superman III, I guess no new ideas should be brought in.

[Kroc1138]

You explained that you wanted brainiac to be a robot in one movie and humanoid in another, have you changed your opinion on this, have you decided to stick with one version through out the whole movie series or what, because otherwise its convoluted.No I haven't decided whether or not Brainiac will handled one way or the other. Because I don't think that he should be one or the other. There is plenty of room for both.

If you have an idea, bring it forward. The fact is Post crisis brainiac sucks, he was an alien that took over themind of a circus freak, how stupid is that? Not that Stupid but it wouldn't work in a Movie. Which is why Good writers take creative liberties when adapting comics. Which is the basis of you problem. You are assuming that I would directly take both versions of Brainiac without any change and copy and paste them on film. If you truly think that, then you must think I'm truly mad. I have my ideas, on how to adapt both on film, but it's far from finished, as I'll mention later.

Even when you took away the circus freak, post crisis Brainiac was nothing more than generic alien conqueror, the poor man's Darkseid or Despero.Which is the General Problem with many Villains, they all have very one dimensional motivations. (That's not saying that it isn't a bad one) That's one of the problems I'm facing with my take on Brainiac. His Motivation to be a villain. (Revenge, World/Universal Domination, etc) The problem is that when too many villians have similar motivations it cheapens all of the Villains. My goal is a have a villain with some depth and also have some room for character growth and Development over a period of many films.

The best version was the robot version, the late Pre crisis version, a living computer with a terrfying look, not some idiot in a golf shirt and bloomers and not a lame circus freak. Since the robot version is by the far the best, I must point out that a robot doesn't have character develop, because its a robot.I think you just shot yourself in the foot here. So it okay that a robot be one dimensional. That's another problem, why should a machine be limited to a simplistic nature?? That's what make machine Villains boring. (Example: the Borg) That's Why I liked the Eradicatorit started out with a Simplistic (but interesting) motive and over time saw the error in it's previous mentality. There was a change.

You don't like Brainiac's motive in STAS, pray tell what was his motive in the comics, to take over the universe? That's original. :rolleyes:Nope. There are other more interesting Motives than childish computer programming or megalomania. Which is what I'm thinking about at this moment. (for Brainiac)

Brainiac being a robot with a single all compassing objective is far more interesting to me, than just another generic alien conqueror. Superman would have to face a foe who is unrentless and has to be destroyed to be stopped. That's way better than him being the poor man's Darkseid, another cheap alien conqueror.Well to be both are one and the same. Boring and overly simplistic. except that Megalomania works a bit better because historically it has worked in all mediums. It's something that Humanity at it's worst has done. (Rome, Nazi Germany) We as humans always demonize the evil as being megalomaniacal. Plus the motivation of Megalomania can be used in conjuction with other evils. (Ethnic Supremacy, Genocide, Religious Fundamentalism, etc.) Those topics are ones that can give some level of depth to megalomania. What the hell can you do with simplistic computer programming but do the same thing over and over again.

The fact is Henshaw was just another lame extreme 90s villain, he was all flash and no substance, in my opinion. There are far more interesting villains out there, than another abortion from the 90s.Again, I enjoyed much of what came out if the 90's from Superman. Henshaw was an interesting villain who I think could have been better developed at certain points in his run at that time. He was far from terrible to me. I think they should have explained his insantiy further and how his hatred of Superman developed, instead of throwing him in for Superman to fight.

[Kroc1138]

Yes who needs new ideas, lets rip off superman II and use Zod again. No new ideas or villains need apply. :rolleyes:I'm not against using him. So what!?!? There's more that could be done with him to make him a deeper villain

Edicator and Henshaw are products off lame 90s gimmick story telling, they both deserve never to be heard from again.Your opinion. There's a lot that can be done with both of them onscreen.

At least Metallo isn't a 90s badboy.Maybe not. But he is a one trick pony. Look at me!! I'm a souped up Terminator with a Kryptonite power cell. Big deal!!

Bizzaro, they already had Superman fight an evil clone in Superman III, I guess no new ideas should be brought in.Again there is plenty of potential for Bizzaro.

Your problem is that you think that the notion of bring any of those Villain onscreen would mean the writer would be copying and pasting what we see on the comics on film. (which could happen) A good writer would take those concept and make them his/her own.

[The Overlord]

No I haven't decided whether or not Brainiac will handled one way or the other. Because I don't think that he should be one or the other. There is plenty of room for both.

Not that Stupid but it wouldn't work in a Movie. Which is why Good writers take creative liberties when adapting comics. Which is the basis of you problem. You are assuming that I would directly take both versions of Brainiac without any change and copy and paste them on film. If you truly think that, then you must think I'm truly mad. I have my ideas, on how to adapt both on film, but it's far from finished, as I'll mention later.

Which is the General Problem with many Villains, they all have very one dimensional motivations. (That's not saying that it isn't a bad one) That's one of the problems I'm facing with my take on Brainiac. His Motivation to be a villain. (Revenge, World/Universal Domination, etc) The problem is that when too many villians have similar motivations it cheapens all of the Villains. My goal is a have a villain with some depth and also have some room for character growth and Development over a period of many films.

I think you just shot yourself in the foot here. So it okay that a robot be one dimensional. That's another problem, why should a machine be limited to a simplistic nature?? That's what make machine Villains boring. (Example: the Borg) That's Why I liked the Eradicatorit started out with a Simplistic (but interesting) motive and over time saw the error in it's previous mentality. There was a change.

Nope. There are other more interesting Motives than childish computer programming or megalomania. Which is what I'm thinking about at this moment. (for Brainiac)

Well to be both are one and the same. Boring and overly simplistic. except that Megalomania works a bit better because historically it has worked in all mediums. It's something that Humanity at it's worst has done. (Rome, Nazi Germany) We as humans always demonize the evil as being megalomaniacal. Plus the motivation of Megalomania can be used in conjuction with other evils. (Ethnic Supremacy, Genocide, Religious Fundamentalism, etc.) Those topics are ones that can give some level of depth to megalomania. What the hell can you do with simplistic computer programming but do the same thing over and over again.

Again, I enjoyed much of what came out if the 90's from Superman. Henshaw was an interesting villain who I think could have been better developed at certain points in his run at that time. He was far from terrible to me. I think they should have explained his insantiy further and how his hatred of Superman developed, instead of throwing him in for Superman to fight.

You can't just keep on saying you have beeter ideas on adapting these characters and not present, that's just been evasive and it doesn't present a good arguement, either present your ideas or stop mentioning them. Surely you can present an outline or something.

Brainiac does have to be either a robot or a humanoid, how in the world can be both? That is just silly. It is impossible for him to be two different species at the same time.

Now the problem with megloamniac and conquest as brainiac's goal is that they are Darkseid's goals. Darkseid is supposed to be space Hitler, not Brainiac. To make meglomania his goal, is to make him just a cheap Darkseid knock off. What's the point of having Darksied, if we are just going to have the poor man's Darkseid in first? Now if Brainiac's goal was destruction instead of conquest, that would be different from Darkseid. Brainiac instead enslaving planets, merely destroys them, Brainiac is not interested in slaves, merely completeing its mission. It is like a completely single minded fanatic, like some people in real life. That IMO, is far more interesting than a darkseid knock off. Now if you have better idea to develop Brainiac without making him a Darkseid knock off, I'm all ears.

[Dr.HugoStrange]

Bizarro, the already got a sample of clark's blood.

[cabel]

Maybe not. But he is a one trick pony. Look at me!! I'm a souped up Terminator with a Kryptonite power cell. Big deal!!



yes and no. its easy to make comparisons between Metallo and the terminator because they're both cyborgs. But the thing that seperates one from the other the fact that while the terminator is a souless killing machine, Metallo is a person who is driven insane by the loss of his humanity

[zeptron]

I don't care who the villain is as long as it's not Doomsday. I mean Superman JUST DIED and came back to life in this movie. Another movie where he dies and comes back to life is just overkill, especially when it happened in the movie right before. Well... I mean, he didn't exaaactly die, but he pretty much did. We don't need it to happen again in the next movie.

[toddly6666]

The Superman movie makers play it so damn safe all the time, they will probably use Lex Luthor again.

The question is "why can't they break away from Lex Luthor already?" He was almost broken away from in Superman 3, but Robert Vaugn was just a Lex Luthor rich businessman substitute.

[Spike_x1]

yes and no. its easy to make comparisons between Metallo and the terminator because they're both cyborgs. But the thing that seperates one from the other the fact that while the terminator is a souless killing machine, Metallo is a person who is driven insane by the loss of his humanitySomeone's been watching too much S:TAS. Comic book Metallo was completely different than the animated version. He could feel and all he wanted was to hurt people and make a name for himself.

[thedarks0ldier]

Luthor, having access to Kryptonian, Contacts Braniac and becomes obsessed with Braniac. Braniac should help Lex clone Superman and Bizarro (Pre-Deformation) should make it seem as though Superman and Lex are friends, Making Lexcorp's (Luthor's new arms manufacturer) sore. Luthor, having access to Kryptonian technology, and having his own Superman, Luthor seems, feels, invincible. Superman II deforms into bizarro.

Richard White should die in a plane crash or something that Bizarro caused. Superman has this huge epic battle with Bizarro in the middle of the movie and then finds out about braniac. He asks his father about Braniac and then Braniac tries to destroy the earth. Superman Stops him, and in the end, we find out Luthor has Richard's body, and now we get Metallo and Darkseid for the Sequal. Or Metallo and Doomsday.

[thedarks0ldier]

Someone's been watching too much S:TAS. Comic book Metallo was completely different than the animated version. He could feel and all he wanted was to hurt people and make a name for himself.
I personally perfer the S:TAS Metallo to the comic Metallo. Just a deeper character IMO

[Savage]

Dini has a way of doing that with characters. I mean I'm sure most people would prefer the B:TAS Mr. Freeze making it to the big screen than the comic version.

[neogeo211]

Whatever I would like to see is limited by what Hollywood has done historically with the SM series. Four out of five movies have featured Lex Luthor as the ultimate Villain pulling strings in the background. Lex Luthor will be in at least one more sequel, but let us hope he eats Parker Posey's dog and her character Kitty Kowalski. I think there is a setup here for Richard to become a villain in either part two or three. Jason will either be threatened or kidnapped in part two by the villain and who even knows SM has a son? Lex Luthor does now. Part two will see the death of Lex Luthor at the hands of SM or Lois. Why? Because I am tired of Lex Luthor. The audience is tired of the same stupid, annoying Lex Luthor stunts. We get it, he hates SM. SR lacked the physicality and exploration of powers the first two SM had. A villain for part six needs to be physically challenging, seemingly invincible (no more Deus ex Machina moments please) and carry-over into the seventh movie and perhaps beyond. IDEA: Richard (who we all know has played a super hero himself in other movies - Cyclops) creates Bizzaro or himself becomes Brainiac. With the news of Jason being SM's son it gives him motive, drive, and purpose to hate SM for real. Luthor only hates SM because he spoils his plans. What about stealing who you thought was your son, your future wife, your dreams? That is what I want to see.

[neogeo211]

I forgot to mention: writers do not simply add characters out of the blue, each new character is important. Richard was not just added for PG effect. There is a purpose to him, we will yet see it.

[The Dark Hero]

Bizzaro

[Sawyer]

[QUOTE=GarudA]Please No More Luther

Oh, Thank you!!!!!!!!!! Lex Luthor is a great villain, but at theres been too much of him. He can be in the rest of the movies, but they shouldnt make him the main villan. Or, you know keep him on that island. I want my f***ing Brainiac.

[Kroc1138]

You can't just keep on saying you have beeter ideas on adapting these characters and not present, that's just been evasive and it doesn't present a good arguement, either present your ideas or stop mentioning them. Surely you can present an outline or something.When Have I said that I have better ideas? I've just been saying that one the whole that when adapting Superman on film that we should include both eras of his comicbook history insterad of adhering to one. As for my concepts those are just ideas that have recently come to mind based strictly on that mentality that I have on the issue. My Brainiac concept I conceived was one that I came up with in a rush. I actually didn't think that Brainiac would work in a movie, but since I wanted to be open minded, I came up with the idea that you mentioned. As of now it's still in it's infancy, but if you are open minded enough to accept a rough rendering of my Brainiac I'll PM you.

Brainiac does have to be either a robot or a humanoid, how in the world can be both? That is just silly. It is impossible for him to be two different species at the same time.Not true at all. That's Why we have Pseudoscience. Comics and Sci-fi would be dull without it. Second, ever hear of reincarnation??
If Brainiac's Origin had him start out first as a Humaniod from Colu. His Race is a group of superintelligent very powerful telepathic Beings, Coluans. (I'm Thinking of a way of bringing in the Computer Tyrants) Vril Dox is the odd man out in this society and he is Either banished or sentenced to Die. Either or he loses tangibilty and he is able (Using Coluan Tech and telepathy) to create himself a new Body out of a machine. Eventually he has an encounter with Superman in space (during his exile)and they clash. The battles ends in Brainiac's defeat. Eventually, Brainiac is reincanated as Milton Fine. (Genius Scientist and Professor)
It can be done if Brainiac is Given two movies. Now as for his motivation That's something I'm working on.

Now the problem with megloamniac and conquest as brainiac's goal is that they are Darkseid's goals.Well you are only partially right. The Problem is not just that it's Darkseid's MO, it that it is a lot of Supervillains motives. When too many Villains have the same MO, Supervillains become stale, cookie cutter cliches.

Darkseid is supposed to be space Hitler, not Brainiac. To make meglomania his goal, is to make him just a cheap Darkseid knock off. What's the point of having Darksied, if we are just going to have the poor man's Darkseid in first?You do know that Darkseid isn't the first Supervillain to have megalomaniacal motives??

Now if Brainiac's goal was destruction instead of conquest, that would be different from Darkseid. Brainiac instead enslaving planets, merely destroys them, Brainiac is not interested in slaves, merely completeing its mission. It is like a completely single minded fanatic, like some people in real life. That IMO, is far more interesting than a darkseid knock off.
Unfotunately, you just ran into another Overused and even more Superficial Supervillain cliche. Universal Apocalypse. It works even less than Megalomania because there are many reasons why people want dominion over everything:
Ethnic Supremacy
More space
Religious Fundamentalism
Illusions of Omnipotence (Ego)
Or acheiving Omnipotence

There are very few reasons why Universal Apocalypse would be a good motive. There are only two GOOD reasons I can think of:
Suicidal/Genocidal hatred for all things living. (Lived a lousy life)
You wish to recreate Existence to your own liking. (thus achieving omnipotence)
To me a computer program that wishes to have an extensive Library of everything in the Universe (while destroying it) is lousy, stupid one Dimensional motive. I think they had an Episode of Futurama where there were being who has the exact same goal. You have all the info, so what?
Part of what makes a Villain interesting is thinking to yourself that if the Villain succedes, what will the World/Galaxy/Universe be like? What will be next? Thinking of Brainiac plan succeding is anticlimactic to say the least.

Now if you have better idea to develop Brainiac without making him a Darkseid knock off, I'm all ears.Well to start, that wasn't my plan to begin with so you can drop the notion of assuming that I will go with that. As of Now It's Partially revenge and part Extreme Darwinist "Survival of the Fittest" mentality. It's a start.

[Kroc1138]

yes and no. its easy to make comparisons between Metallo and the terminator because they're both cyborgs. But the thing that seperates one from the other the fact that while the terminator is a souless killing machine, Metallo is a person who is driven insane by the loss of his humanityBut that to me is still a boring character. Especially since STAS only covered that aspect once. Otherwise, They failed to follow up on that aspect of his character. Still I find Metallo to be a boring small scale Villain, plus I'm tire of seeing Kryptonite as a means of fighting Superman. He does have other countermeasures villains can capitalize on.

[batlovescatDC]

Brainiac, Parasite, and a little bit of Lex.

[batlovescatDC]

I think they all go along pretty well together, but also clash with one another. They all want more power, but that's also their weakness. Brainiac could use Lex Luthor's technology to power himself, but that means Lex could betray him and shut him down using his own technology. Also Parasite could be deadly to Lex by taking away his energy, and do you know how much energy he would get from Brainiac?! It would be better than a July 4th picnic to him.

[The Overlord]

When Have I said that I have better ideas? I've just been saying that one the whole that when adapting Superman on film that we should include both eras of his comicbook history insterad of adhering to one. As for my concepts those are just ideas that have recently come to mind based strictly on that mentality that I have on the issue. My Brainiac concept I conceived was one that I came up with in a rush. I actually didn't think that Brainiac would work in a movie, but since I wanted to be open minded, I came up with the idea that you mentioned. As of now it's still in it's infancy, but if you are open minded enough to accept a rough rendering of my Brainiac I'll PM you.

Not true at all. That's Why we have Pseudoscience. Comics and Sci-fi would be dull without it. Second, ever hear of reincarnation??
If Brainiac's Origin had him start out first as a Humaniod from Colu. His Race is a group of superintelligent very powerful telepathic Beings, Coluans. (I'm Thinking of a way of bringing in the Computer Tyrants) Vril Dox is the odd man out in this society and he is Either banished or sentenced to Die. Either or he loses tangibilty and he is able (Using Coluan Tech and telepathy) to create himself a new Body out of a machine. Eventually he has an encounter with Superman in space (during his exile)and they clash. The battles ends in Brainiac's defeat. Eventually, Brainiac is reincanated as Milton Fine. (Genius Scientist and Professor)
It can be done if Brainiac is Given two movies. Now as for his motivation That's something I'm working on.

Well you are only partially right. The Problem is not just that it's Darkseid's MO, it that it is a lot of Supervillains motives. When too many Villains have the same MO, Supervillains become stale, cookie cutter cliches.

You do know that Darkseid isn't the first Supervillain to have megalomaniacal motives??


Unfotunately, you just ran into another Overused and even more Superficial Supervillain cliche. Universal Apocalypse. It works even less than Megalomania because there are many reasons why people want dominion over everything:
Ethnic Supremacy
More space
Religious Fundamentalism
Illusions of Omnipotence (Ego)
Or acheiving Omnipotence

There are very few reasons why Universal Apocalypse would be a good motive. There are only two GOOD reasons I can think of:
Suicidal/Genocidal hatred for all things living. (Lived a lousy life)
You wish to recreate Existence to your own liking. (thus achieving omnipotence)
To me a computer program that wishes to have an extensive Library of everything in the Universe (while destroying it) is lousy, stupid one Dimensional motive. I think they had an Episode of Futurama where there were being who has the exact same goal. You have all the info, so what?
Part of what makes a Villain interesting is thinking to yourself that if the Villain succedes, what will the World/Galaxy/Universe be like? What will be next? Thinking of Brainiac plan succeding is anticlimactic to say the least.

Well to start, that wasn't my plan to begin with so you can drop the notion of assuming that I will go with that. As of Now It's Partially revenge and part Extreme Darwinist "Survival of the Fittest" mentality. It's a start.

I'm sorry but Brainiac starting off as an alien and then becomming a human is too convoluted to work on the screen, plus it ignores the robot brainiac, which is the best version of the character. Plus a little green man would look stupid and cheap on film, keep Brainiac as robot and give him his late Pre crisis look. Giving Brainiac two movies just makes things more convoluted and drawn out, Brainiac should be in one movie and should have one form, keep it simple or you will lose the audience.

As for Brainiac's motive, "Survival of the fittest" what is he ripping off Apocalypse now? Revenge, Brainiac was kicked out of Colu, why would he have a grudge against Superman? Fine maybe the knowledge thing is not needed, but Bainiac should be a robot and his goals should reflect that. Perhaps brainiac was once the central computer on the planet Colu, which had many of the same social ills we have, war, poverty, genocide, etc. Brainiac was tasked with a finding a solution, but everyone of his solutions ultimately fasiled, because the humanoid Coluians could not go of their greed and petty hatreds. Eventually Brainiac came to the conclusion that the Coluians were fundamanetally illogical and irrational and killed them all. Brainiac replaced with new robots that rebuit the planet and created a uptopia. Seeing how much better the robots were than humaniods at living together and building a better society Brainiac decided that organiac life may threaten his paradise, so he went to other planets, killed the organiacs there and replaced them with robots. Soon he decided to bring his style of order to the entire universe as well. If brainiac is trying to over the universe because he is another petty tyrant, how does that amke him any different from Darkseid?

[Kroc1138]

I'm sorry but Brainiac starting off as an alien and then becomming a human is too convoluted to work on the screen, plus it ignores the robot brainiac, which is the best version of the character.Really?? I don't see it that way at all. It's quite Simple. As for Robot Brainiac being the Best, I disagree. It'll just mean he's one dimensional and boring. Changing the characteristics of a villain may be something new or even a bit risky, but I think that it should be tried so that stay interesting.

Plus a little green man would look stupid and cheap on film, keep Brainiac as robot and give him his late Pre crisis look. Giving Brainiac two movies just makes things more convoluted and drawn out, Brainiac should be in one movie and should have one form, keep it simple or you will lose the audience.
Personally ever since I changed my mind on having Brainiac on film I thought that he should be perhaps the biggest Villain to be portrayed on film. (Granted, I think that Superman movies should have 6 installments) Even bigger than Darkseid. So to me, two films isn't much.


As for Brainiac's motive, "Survival of the fittest" what is he ripping off Apocalypse now?Not really. I'm still thinking it out. Remember? It's not clear to me as to how it will be applied. But one thing I do know is that he has no superiority complex when he look at humans. (as most villains do) as for saying that it's a ripoff, most Villain motives are ripoffs to begin with. You can look at every villain in comics book history (form now until Doomsday) and see that it might be ripping off or is inspired by some other previous work. All work, no matter what, is in some way inspired, plagiarized or otherwise by previous works.

Revenge, Brainiac was kicked out of Colu, why would he have a grudge against Superman?It goes with a Back story that I had. It involves Brainiac, ancient Krypton, Kem-L and the Eradicator. It goes a little something Like this: 200,000 years ago Krypton was a Planet that has been struggling to unify. (earlier in it's History there was a civil War) Some Believe that Krypton should Isolationists, Others wish to Explore the Universe and Others vow for Racial Supremacy.

Kem-L Created the Eradicator to maintain Kryptonian Supremacy and sought to conquer the Stars. As Krypton Sought to become more Civilized, Kem-L and His followers were forced to Leave.
Colu was a relatively peaceful Society, but was somewhat Xenophobic. Vril Dox was somewhat of an Outcast on Colu and His dealings with The Cleric were somewhat offputting to them. Granted they were both at odds with each other, there was a mutual respect that the both held for each other.

Basically: Kem-L and the Eradicator is responsible for the Destruction of Colu. Vril Dox, (despite being either Banished or put to death) works to fight off the Kryptonians and save his people. Thus he Loses his tangibility and inhabits a machine. The Cleric eventually ends the conflict and the Eradicator is Deactivated and kept in his possession.

That covers the backstory of him disliking Kryptonians, particularly Kal-Els predecessors. The Thing is Revenge not really one of his major Motivations at this time. Still thinking it over.

Fine maybe the knowledge thing is not needed, but Bainiac should be a robot and his goals should reflect that. Perhaps brainiac was once the central computer on the planet Colu, which had many of the same social ills we have, war, poverty, genocide, etc. Brainiac was tasked with a finding a solution, but everyone of his solutions ultimately fasiled, because the humanoid Coluians could not go of their greed and petty hatreds. Eventually Brainiac came to the conclusion that the Coluians were fundamanetally illogical and irrational and killed them all.It sounds okay from here.

Brainiac replaced with new robots that rebuit the planet and created a uptopia. Seeing how much better the robots were than humaniods at living together and building a better society Brainiac decided that organiac life may threaten his paradise, so he went to other planets, killed the organiacs there and replaced them with robots. Soon he decided to bring his style of order to the entire universe as well.This is were you completely lose me. (plus you contradicted yourself) This sounds too much like the Borg. (which is one of many reasons why I find the single-minded Robot routine boring to say the least) Second it's just too simplistic of a Villain origin. Brainiac needs more.

If brainiac is trying to over the universe because he is another petty tyrant, how does that amke him any different from Darkseid?I'm not too sure what you are trying to say here, but I'm assuming that you are talking about my version of Brainiac being not that much different from Darkseid. As I see it he is very different in motivation and demeanor.

Again I can PM a more comprehensive take on my Brainiac.

[The Overlord]

Really?? I don't see it that way at all. It's quite Simple. As for Robot Brainiac being the Best, I disagree. It'll just mean he's one dimensional and boring. Changing the characteristics of a villain may be something new or even a bit risky, but I think that it should be tried so that stay interesting.


Personally ever since I changed my mind on having Brainiac on film I thought that he should be perhaps the biggest Villain to be portrayed on film. (Granted, I think that Superman movies should have 6 installments) Even bigger than Darkseid. So to me, two films isn't much.


Not really. I'm still thinking it out. Remember? It's not clear to me as to how it will be applied. But one thing I do know is that he has no superiority complex when he look at humans. (as most villains do) as for saying that it's a ripoff, most Villain motives are ripoffs to begin with. You can look at every villain in comics book history (form now until Doomsday) and see that it might be ripping off or is inspired by some other previous work. All work, no matter what, is in some way inspired, plagiarized or otherwise by previous works.

It goes with a Back story that I had. It involves Brainiac, ancient Krypton, Kem-L and the Eradicator. It goes a little something Like this: 200,000 years ago Krypton was a Planet that has been struggling to unify. (earlier in it's History there was a civil War) Some Believe that Krypton should Isolationists, Others wish to Explore the Universe and Others vow for Racial Supremacy.

Kem-L Created the Eradicator to maintain Kryptonian Supremacy and sought to conquer the Stars. As Krypton Sought to become more Civilized, Kem-L and His followers were forced to Leave.
Colu was a relatively peaceful Society, but was somewhat Xenophobic. Vril Dox was somewhat of an Outcast on Colu and His dealings with The Cleric were somewhat offputting to them. Granted they were both at odds with each other, there was a mutual respect that the both held for each other.

Basically: Kem-L and the Eradicator is responsible for the Destruction of Colu. Vril Dox, (despite being either Banished or put to death) works to fight off the Kryptonians and save his people. Thus he Loses his tangibility and inhabits a machine. The Cleric eventually ends the conflict and the Eradicator is Deactivated and kept in his possession.

That covers the backstory of him disliking Kryptonians, particularly Kal-Els predecessors. The Thing is Revenge not really one of his major Motivations at this time. Still thinking it over.

It sounds okay from here.

This is were you completely lose me. (plus you contradicted yourself) This sounds too much like the Borg. (which is one of many reasons why I find the single-minded Robot routine boring to say the least) Second it's just too simplistic of a Villain origin. Brainiac needs more.

I'm not too sure what you are trying to say here, but I'm assuming that you are talking about my version of Brainiac being not that much different from Darkseid. As I see it he is very different in motivation and demeanor.

Again I can PM a more comprehensive take on my Brainiac.

You don't like rehashs but your going back to the well with the revenge motive. Revenge was General Zod's motive in Superman II, revenge was Lex's motive SR. Having Brainiac as robot who is not intrerested in revenge makes him different than previous villains. Plus Brainiac's origin is kinda convoluted, since yellow sun enegry makes Kryptonians immortal (DC One Million), why isn't Kem-L still around, how did the Coluians destroy him. Also why did Kem-L destroy Colu, enslavement would have made more sense? This background story brings up too many questions. Besides if revenge is Brainiac motive, then why would be interested in earth itself at all, wouldn't he just kill Superman and then want to move on?

Personally I think making Brainiac a robot makes him different from the previous villains, Lex and Zod, who allowed their emotions to control them, to an extent. Brainiac would have no emotions, Brainiac is dictated by pure cold logic, as he sees it. Besides I think Brainiac could have character development, as an AI. He goes from trying to help the Coluans with their problems to deciding the Coluans themselves are the problem and have to be destroyed.

Also Brainiac has an angry green man would look stupid on the silver screen, Brainiac late post crisis look (skull headed robot) looks far cooler. Superman vs. robot Brainiac sets up an interesting dynamic heart and copmpansion vs. cold logic and ruthless intelligence. Plus I want Brainiac to kill Richard and?or Jason in the sequel. If superman kills the humaoid version of brainiac, it would be murder, not the case with a completely robotic version of Brainiac.

[Speedball]

There are three villians I want to see.
Luthor again(you gotta have Luthor)
Brainiac
and Bizarro
Bizarro should be either brought from his world or created by Brainiac.
Brainiac should be formed by the crystals dropped by Kitty.
Bizarro should be formed from blood dropped by Superman on the landmass.
He should hunt down Lois and try to kill her, but say he loves her.

[Steelsheen]

i'm reposting this from another thread in the SR forums:

given how the movie ends, there are several elements there where they can build the sequel plot on:

1.) New Krypton: the movie ends with it sitting in space. there could be elements that can develop from it: Brainiac or Bizarro. if you all notice NK is esentially the antithesis of the FOS, and Bizarro is also the antithesis of Superman, so it makes some sense if Bizarro was "born" of NK.

Brainiac can also come forth from NK but i like the version of Brainiac being a super-computer from Krypton itself. the JLU provided the perfect irony that the one "survivor" of Krytpon with all its knowledge and history in its memory banks would be the being that would try to vanquish Superman, or create a humanized version of itself via Superman's DNA and destroy the original.

2.) Lex Luthor: Lex was left on an island, the perfect ending to a man who tried to create his own continent. but the point is he's still alive. and theres something about Lex's diabolical intelligence that serves as a perfect foil to the Big Blue Boyscout (other also from the fact that Spacey is signed on for all 3 films). the end of SR will show to Lex that his intelligence coupled with Kryptonian technology isnt enough to rid him of Supes so it would make sense if he tried to create something that would: he needs some brawns that he can control. that would make use of Bizarro. he can also go on the intellectual route and try to make himself smarter: thus he can create a super-computer that will eventually become Brainiac. this can also pave way for the possible merging of Lex-Brainiac which can serve as a climax to film 2 or can be developed further in film 3.

[Superman1980]

SUPERMAN RETURNS
SUPERMAN:The Death of a Hero
SUPERMAN:Superman Lives

I know that I'm wasting my time by even dreaming about this but this is how I would do it. I loved the Death and Life of Superman when it played out in the comics. I just thought it was so powerful and emotional. We've obviously just had Superman Returns, so I'd have the next film tell the story of Doomsday and the death of Superman. End the film on the major cliffhanger of Superman being dead and all hope lost (kind of like Empire strikes back) and then have the third film about Superman coming back and evil having it's arse kicked (ala Return of the Jedi).
I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me and that's fine, this is only my opinion after all. I just think that this story is so big that it should be played out over two films

[The Revengers]

Doomsday, Darksied, or Lobo.

[Sub-Zero]

why do people think that bizarro will be the next villain? there was no blood on the kryptonite shard the doctors pulled out of supes at the end. there's no way anyone has his blood.

[griffolyon12]

Have Lex and Brainiac team up and create Metallo.

[XwolverineX]

Anyone other then Braniac would be retarded.

[dpm07]

Anyone other then Braniac would be retarded

True, but remember, we're dealing with Singer. This is a man who built this desecration and debacle around a film that came out in 1978, and this is a man who really wasn't in tune to what the audiences wanted to see in a Superman film.

I don't know if there is any truth or not, but I've heard a rumor from my brother in Deutchsland, that Singer wants to use a Kryptonian family who is trying to settle on earth, and Superman has to deal with them. True or not, I don't know, but it sounds like something Singer would do because it has a Zod element to it.

I think people keep bringing up Bizarro because Singer's philosophy is that there's no one other than Kryptonians who can go head to head with Superman physically.

Personally, I think that they should reboot, and boot Singer's butt out, and he can take his whack pack members as well, and put in writers who really understand Superman, and not just a film that came out a long time ago.

[Sub-Zero]

what are you talking about? that was a good superman movie. all he did was give him a kid. i don't like it but i can deal with it. there are no kryptonians left so having a k-family settle on earth is the DUMBEST thing i've ever heard! i don't think he would do that. you have to realize that there are many kinds of superman fans. not all of them read the comics. some like the tv shows, some the cartoons, some the movies. i hate defending people but singer is a fan of superman and i think his homage was pretty good, but slow at times(so was x-men, but x2 was 20x better). oh and people didn't see x3 because singer wasn't directing. they saw it b/c he set it up for a great third movie and we were all disappointed...anyway...this thing will make money and we'll surely see a sequel in the next 2 or 3 years.

[dpm07]

what are you talking about? that was a good superman movie. all he did was give him a kid. i don't like it but i can deal with it. there are no kryptonians left so having a k-family settle on earth is the DUMBEST thing i've ever heard! i don't think he would do that. you have to realize that there are many kinds of superman fans. not all of them read the comics. some like the tv shows, some the cartoons, some the movies. i hate defending people but singer is a fan of superman and i think his homage was pretty good, but slow at times(so was x-men, but x2 was 20x better). oh and people didn't see x3 because singer wasn't directing. they saw it b/c he set it up for a great third movie and we were all disappointed...anyway...this thing will make money and we'll surely see a sequel in the next 2 or 3 years.

Singer is a fan of the Donner film. While Singer may purport to be a fan of Superman, it's highly unlikely he has done any real great research outside of the Donner film. The entire DC Vault was open to him to use which includes animation, tv shows, comics, etc. Singer didn't want to use it. He only wanted to use the Donner film.

Singer's blind fanaticial fetish for the Donner film has proven to be his undoing, as has his plot device of providing Superman a child. As I have personally stated in the past, this movie became less Superman Returns, and more Jason's Arrival.

Singer had the best money could buy and gave us a soulless lackluster film that provided his version of Superman, a version that has not connected with the audiences because it is a poor and very hollow representation. Singer is not entirely to blame, however. His whack pack of fools Harris and Daugherty, who probably share a single brain have contributed to a very poor story. This film should have been a guaranteed box office hit. The fact that it isn't, is an indicator of how out of touch Singer is and/or how large his ego is to think that the mainstream would want to embrace a continuation to something that should have been rebooted.

Sam Raimi and Nolan knew what it took to respectably make Spiderman and Batman respectably. Peter Jackson took a major gamble with LOTR and made it work. Gore Verbinski took a huge chance with POTC and is on his way to doing one of the top trilogies of all time. Singer really had it the easiest. He had a guaranteed hit with the most well-known popular cultural icon of the 20th century, and botched it due to a poor story. It was a great concept, but it was a poor story. Screwing this film up should have been like falling out of a boat in the middle of the ocean, and missing water. A practically impossible feat, but Singer managed to do it.

We could have had a Lex that radiated charisma and style with a sense of villainy who was a CEO believing what he was doing was right, and instead we get a continuation of Hackman's Lex. We also get the 21st century of Lex going after another land scheme. We could have had Brainiac, Metallo, Parasite, etc. We could have had the beginning of an epic trilogy leading to the arrival of Darkseid in a third film, and a Superman facing off against Apokolips.

You know what we got? We got Jason, and Superman got the shaft, and the box office tells the tale of the tape. Many of us foresaw the dangers when Singer was saying how closely he was going to make this to the Donner film. However, we were wrong for doubting Singer. It was heretical to speak out against him. Today, the world sees the film for what it is, and WoM is spreading fast. The film, while it is aesthetically amazing, is flat and underwhelming in its portrayal. Superman has moved in to the 21st century, and Singer has kept him in 1978. It's a sad testament to humanity what Singer has done with this film and what he has done to Superman.

[SuperDaniel]

I think that the worst thing of this movie is that it is anticlimatic. Whenever there are disasters, we know Superman is going to save it and solve everything. We all knew Superman was going to save Lois , Richard and the kid in the movie. Thats why in my opinion, STM is better. `Cause he fails in the end. There`s a climax! Lois dies. What does he do? The impossible to save his love. In this movie? Its too predictable.

So, i`d start the sequel with a plane accident. A plane piloted by Richard. To make a parallel between the scene in Superman Returns and the sequel. In the end, Superman is late. Richard White dies. But Luthor is the savior. He saves him. He puts bionic parts, powered by Kryptonite. Luthor wants to control Metallo, his initial plan is to make Richard destroy Superman. But Richard disobeys him. He still is a good guy. Now comes the good part. Richard thinks he can have Lois. But he doesn`t have the sense of touch anymore. He cant feel anything. A touch, a kiss from his loved ones. Like what happened in the Animated Series. He discovers Lois loves Superman, that Jason is in fact Superman`s kid. He gets furious, wants to kill everybody, kill Superman for making him become what he is now, kill Luthor, kill Lois for dumping him. NOW thats a real story. With emotional moments. In the end, Lois find out Superman is Clark, we have a proposal from Clark and thats it. Wedding in the third movie. But things don`t look good. Darkseid is planning an invasion. Will Superman survive this? Can he have a future with Lois and raise a family?

In the third movie, make it like Hell on Earth. Parallels with WW II, Apokolips being like a huge concentration camp, ruled by a dictator: Darkseid. He wants to make the same thing with Earth. Darkseid finds out Clark is Supes. Superman in the end kills Darkseid in the greatest battle ever put on screen. Gives up of his powers because he violated his most precious vow. Just like what happened in "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow". Superman is now human, raises a family with Lois, the people from Apokolyps are free. End of a great Trilogy.

A dream? Yeah....my dream...

[Kroc1138]

You don't like rehashs but your going back to the well with the revenge motive. Revenge was General Zod's motive in Superman II, revenge was Lex's motive SR. I think you are seriously misusing the word Rehash. Rehashing would mean taking all the basic elements of one film and using them in another film, but only superficially changing some characteristics. (Example T3:ROTM) There is nothing truly wrong with the notion of revegn as amotivation as long as it is presented in a different each time it is used. However it can get old. The Problem is that you aren't looking at it with an open mind, you are assuming. If you have a question about what I posted them ask. As for disliking rehashes, the fact that you use the fact that question the motivation of My take on Brainiac and call it a rehash is flawed reasoning. Rehash are bad for Films series not b/c of Villain Motivations but b/c plotline elements, characters, and other major elements in storytelling are reused over and over and over. (again T3)

Having Brainiac as robot who is not intrerested in revenge makes him different than previous villains.Your right and wrong. It would make him a Borg carbon copy. But it would also make him boring, one dimensional and over simplistic. Which is why the Borg in Star Trek became so stale.

Plus Brainiac's origin is kinda convoluted, since yellow sun enegry makes Kryptonians immortal (DC One Million), why isn't Kem-L still around, how did the Coluians destroy him.There are so many things wrong with what you brought up here, I don't even know where to start. For starters: DC one Million is an Elseworld storyline so it's Non-canon. Second: Kryptonians who have been exposed to a Yellow sun can still be killed.
Third: Kem-L and his followers haven't been exposed to a Yellow sun.
Fourth: The Coluans didn't destroy them. They all died. (but were saved by Brainiac) As for Kem-L's fate I know that he dies, how is the answer I'm Looking for.

Also why did Kem-L destroy Colu, enslavement would have made more sense?Wow!! I don't mean to be rude, but this is truly absurd.
For Starters, Colu itself isn't destroyed, the Coluans are. Second, how does slavery make more sense? If you are a Racial Supremacist who is looking for more space to occupy why would you keep all other "inferior" races alive? Hitler plan clearly follows that logic, and from his or any other wackjob Supremacists reasoning exterminating "inferior" races makes the most sense. Slavery is a problematic, b/c you have to keep the slaves alive and housed thus you need lots of rescources to do so.

This background story brings up too many questions.All questions that have been answered or questions that shouldn't have been asked in the first place.

Besides if revenge is Brainiac motive, then why would be interested in earth itself at all, wouldn't he just kill Superman and then want to move on?His secondary motive involves extreme Darwinism for Earth. Seeing ask how Superman and Brainiac had one bad encounter they both are going to clash. Brainiac sees Superman as a foil to his experiement, so he wants him out of the way. His revenge motivation isn't really clear and secondly he doesn't have any ill will towards Superman himself because of his past dealings with Kryptonians. Again this is all early concept work for me so it's hard to assume what will happen. I might abandon the motivation entirely in the end.

Personally I think making Brainiac a robot makes him different from the previous villains, Lex and Zod, who allowed their emotions to control them, to an extent. Brainiac would have no emotions, Brainiac is dictated by pure cold logic, as he sees it. Besides I think Brainiac could have character development, as an AI.He goes from trying to help the Coluans with their problems to deciding the Coluans themselves are the problem and have to be destroyed. Assumptions. Just b/c I stated that My Brainiac's motivation is Revenge you assume it's going to play out Like Zod and Luthor. That isn't the case at all so drop that assumption.

As for your take I'll say it again. It's dull and one-dimensional. It only works in a limited capacity.

As for this:
Besides I think Brainiac could have character development, as an AI.He goes from trying to help the Coluans with their problems to deciding the Coluans themselves are the problem and have to be destroyed.It's very superficial development. Which leads to nothing more than that. A computer program gains sentience, so what? That's hardly development and is more of a plot device. Explain to me how over time that how your Brainiac can have any development beyond a single-minded sentient computer program and I'll open my mind a bit more.

Also Brainiac has an angry green man would look stupid on the silver screen,Why are you assuming that he'd be some green man? There is a general Problem with all of your responses to my posts. (I'll address later)

Brainiac late post crisis look (skull headed robot) looks far cooler. Not really. He's okay nothing more.

Superman vs. robot Brainiac sets up an interesting dynamic heart and copmpansion vs. cold logic and ruthless intelligence.Been done to death. It's not a very interesting dynamic.

Plus I want Brainiac to kill Richard and?or Jason in the sequel. Not even going to address that. Pointlessly killing characters just b/c you don't like them. Nuff said.

If superman kills the humaoid version of brainiac, it would be murder, not the case with a completely robotic version of Brainiac.So? To me I think that Superman (or any Hero for that Matter) should explore the notion of Killing their enemies in Movies. Now that is good development.

Now To discuss our little exchange. I notice that whenever you comment on what I've posted on my take on Brainiac, you superficially discuss what I directly post and cricitcize it by making up assumptions as to what I might be thinking on the matter. Me on the other hand, I just directly discuss what you post and criticize you concepts that you bring up. I don't make assumption nor jump to conclusions. I think that that the next post that you make you should keep inmind that you should directly criticize what I post w/o jumping to conclusions.If you have a question about a concept then ask me. As of now my plan is very new, and is all in my head.

[Orko Is King]

Luthor can create Bizarro and Metallo in the sequel and Supes can go up against Darkseid in the 3rd movie.

[thorstone]

After reading the Superman Lives script, I am convinced Brainiac should never be put on film. It goes beyond the character being boring; the name just can't be said outloud without sounding ridiculous, especially when it is said thirty times in a movie straight faced by characters. It would turn into a drinking game...everytime they say Brainiac, take a shot.

[Excel]

Why bother with villains that can actually offer a challenge, when we can have another diabolical real estate scheme? :D :rolleyes::eek: AHAHAHA


bring on ty zor mutha ****a!

[Immortalfire]

Glad to see Zod isn't leading this. I am so freakin tired of Zod, first two movies, all the talk about him on Smallville, Singer wanted him for Returns. Geesh, let him stay gone people.

[ervann]

Why do people think Bizarro would make a strong villian? Will it translate into screen well at all?

It is on par with Darkseid and ahead of Metello!

[Morgoth]

SR is wonderful but enough of Lex and Kryptonite, it's time for a big time Super Villian. I just saw Pirates 2 today and just seeing Davy and his Pirates and all the imagination put into it, made me long for a Super villian in Superman "2".

It's time. I hate how in all the movies like POTC 2 there is all this great fantasy but when it comes to a comic book movie they cut it back, it makes no sense, it is in the fantasy realm aswell. not quite the same but, still. The filmmakers say they are afraid the people don't wanna' see that and that they are afraid it won't make money, but Bull! Look at how much money Pirates 2 made and it has a squid headed pirate playing the Organ, it's not cheesy it is F-cking cool!

Now imagine Doomsday in SR 2. I think he'd be good, you can adapt him into it without doing the "death" story, they just had "Superman Returns" we don't need him to go away and Return again, but it would be a cool movie, and a great battle!

My thought is this, the WB logo comes up, you hear THOOM! and it shakes, then the DC logo then you hear again, THOOM!, and that shakes, then you see a big field, the camera goes underneath the ground, you see DD's fist punching through his cell as the bone extensions rip through the glove then the prison, then show him burst through the earth!!!

Now I'm not saying it has to be Doomsday but it would be cool, kind of a mixture of the Death story and Hunter Prey, to show his origin.:) :supes:

[The Overlord]

SR is wonderful but enough of Lex and Kryptonite, it's time for a big time Super Villian. I just saw Pirates 2 today and just seeing Davy and his Pirates and all the imagination put into it, made me long for a Super villian in Superman "2".

It's time. I hate how in all the movies like POTC 2 there is all this great fantasy but when it comes to a comic book movie they cut it back, it makes no sense, it is in the fantasy realm aswell. not quite the same but, still. The filmmakers say they are afraid the people don't wanna' see that and that they are afraid it won't make money, but Bull! Look at how much money Pirates 2 made and it has a squid headed pirate playing the Organ, it's not cheesy it is F-cking cool!

Now imagine Doomsday in SR 2. I think he'd be good, you can adapt him into it without doing the "death" story, they just had "Superman Returns" we don't need him to go away and Return again, but it would be a cool movie, and a great battle!

My thought is this, the WB logo comes up, you hear THOOM! and it shakes, then the DC logo then you hear again, THOOM!, and that shakes, then you see a big field, the camera goes underneath the ground, you see DD's fist punching through his cell as the bone extensions rip through the glove then the prison, then show him burst through the earth!!!

Now I'm not saying it has to be Doomsday but it would be cool, kind of a mixture of the Death story and Hunter Prey, to show his origin.:) :supes:

Doomsday is nothing more than a plot device, a mindless killing machine with no real character.

[JackBauer]

bring in The Elite (maybe created by LexCorp), and focus the movie on how Supes' "old-fashioned" values DO have a place in the cynical world that we live today.

that's how Singer should've approached the character when reintroducing him to the world.

[The Overlord]

I think you are seriously misusing the word Rehash. Rehashing would mean taking all the basic elements of one film and using them in another film, but only superficially changing some characteristics. (Example T3:ROTM) There is nothing truly wrong with the notion of revegn as amotivation as long as it is presented in a different each time it is used. However it can get old. The Problem is that you aren't looking at it with an open mind, you are assuming. If you have a question about what I posted them ask. As for disliking rehashes, the fact that you use the fact that question the motivation of My take on Brainiac and call it a rehash is flawed reasoning. Rehash are bad for Films series not b/c of Villain Motivations but b/c plotline elements, characters, and other major elements in storytelling are reused over and over and over. (again T3)

Your right and wrong. It would make him a Borg carbon copy. But it would also make him boring, one dimensional and over simplistic. Which is why the Borg in Star Trek became so stale.

There are so many things wrong with what you brought up here, I don't even know where to start. For starters: DC one Million is an Elseworld storyline so it's Non-canon. Second: Kryptonians who have been exposed to a Yellow sun can still be killed.
Third: Kem-L and his followers haven't been exposed to a Yellow sun.
Fourth: The Coluans didn't destroy them. They all died. (but were saved by Brainiac) As for Kem-L's fate I know that he dies, how is the answer I'm Looking for.

Wow!! I don't mean to be rude, but this is truly absurd.
For Starters, Colu itself isn't destroyed, the Coluans are. Second, how does slavery make more sense? If you are a Racial Supremacist who is looking for more space to occupy why would you keep all other "inferior" races alive? Hitler plan clearly follows that logic, and from his or any other wackjob Supremacists reasoning exterminating "inferior" races makes the most sense. Slavery is a problematic, b/c you have to keep the slaves alive and housed thus you need lots of rescources to do so.

All questions that have been answered or questions that shouldn't have been asked in the first place.

His secondary motive involves extreme Darwinism for Earth. Seeing ask how Superman and Brainiac had one bad encounter they both are going to clash. Brainiac sees Superman as a foil to his experiement, so he wants him out of the way. His revenge motivation isn't really clear and secondly he doesn't have any ill will towards Superman himself because of his past dealings with Kryptonians. Again this is all early concept work for me so it's hard to assume what will happen. I might abandon the motivation entirely in the end.

Assumptions. Just b/c I stated that My Brainiac's motivation is Revenge you assume it's going to play out Like Zod and Luthor. That isn't the case at all so drop that assumption.

As for your take I'll say it again. It's dull and one-dimensional. It only works in a limited capacity.

As for this:
It's very superficial development. Which leads to nothing more than that. A computer program gains sentience, so what? That's hardly development and is more of a plot device. Explain to me how over time that how your Brainiac can have any development beyond a single-minded sentient computer program and I'll open my mind a bit more.

Why are you assuming that he'd be some green man? There is a general Problem with all of your responses to my posts. (I'll address later)

Not really. He's okay nothing more.

Been done to death. It's not a very interesting dynamic.

Not even going to address that. Pointlessly killing characters just b/c you don't like them. Nuff said.

So? To me I think that Superman (or any Hero for that Matter) should explore the notion of Killing their enemies in Movies. Now that is good development.

Now To discuss our little exchange. I notice that whenever you comment on what I've posted on my take on Brainiac, you superficially discuss what I directly post and cricitcize it by making up assumptions as to what I might be thinking on the matter. Me on the other hand, I just directly discuss what you post and criticize you concepts that you bring up. I don't make assumption nor jump to conclusions. I think that that the next post that you make you should keep inmind that you should directly criticize what I post w/o jumping to conclusions.If you have a question about a concept then ask me. As of now my plan is very new, and is all in my head.

I'm sorry the whole darwinist thing is just a rip off of Apocalypse's motive, which was never that interesting in the first place. Besides it doesn't really make sense, Kem-L destroys Brainiac's planet for racial superority reasons and thenm suddenly Brainiac adopts the same ideology as his enemies, wouldn't he have an opposite reaction. Its a really stupid motive. Besides making him darwinists just makes him a space hitler character and those have done to death, it makes just another space despot, there are about million of them in comics alone. Hell, social darwinism was animated Grodd's motive in the JL cartoon, it is not orginal, it was been done a million times before.

Let me ask you something, if you oppose robot Brainiac because you believe he is a "one dimensional character", then why do you support the inclusion of Doomsday, who is nothing more than a one dimensional plot device in the comics?

If i'm making assumptions its because your being dodgey, you keep on saying you have all these great ideas, yet I have to press you to get any info and i have assume things because you are always skecky on the details, you have only recently presnted anything close to clear presentation of your ideas and they are either convoluted or short on important details (ex: you still haven't said what extractly brainiac should look like). Your trying to have it both ways, either present your ideas in full or stop mentioning them and work on them for bit before talking about them again, don't shoot down other people's ideas when your being dodegey with your own ideas.

[Hunter Rider]

I voted Lex and Brainiac,i think Brainiac will be the main villain with Lex in the background
Metallo is a possibility if they use the angle that Lex still has some kryptonite left from the museum heist

[WhatsHisFace]

There are so many ins for Braniac to seamlessly transfer in, it would be sad if he didn't.

Plus, with Jason being Kryptonian, Braniac could be a pretty good solution to that little problem, heh heh...

[Morgoth]

Another thought I had was , go with the Brainiac being from Krypton thing that was in the animated series and have Doomsday be like his henchman, he could say that he created him on Krypton and he sent him to Earth years ago, and that it's time to summon him, so DD has been under the Earth in stasis and then Brainiac wakes him and we see him rip to the surface. I really like this idea.

Hey, if Spidey can have three villians we can get two big hitters, and without overdoing it. I think that would be cool, and Doomsday as the "muscle" would work 'cause it's not like he's much more than a brute anyway, and it's not diminishing his character like what they did to Bane on Batman and Robin.

Bane had alot to his character, but DD is just a killing machine, so it works well. :) :up: :supes:

[3 Dev Adam]

The franchise already began with a broken Lex, so the best thing to do is hint at how Lex can stop those stupid Real State Schemes and move on to something more useful, like:

1. Becoming a multimillionarie (he ALREADY IS - he got an heritage by the beginning of the movie, remember?).

2. Establish himself as a cleaned up businessman.

(Easy: all the proofs that he was responsible for New Krypton - i.e., the videotapes, that I suppose were crushed by that boulder - were destroyed when Supes threw NK at the space. Since NK has no force-field around it, everything that's magnetic degauss in space. Sure, there were eyewitnesses (Lois, Supes, Richard, even Kitty), but it takes more than that to put a man in jail - see O.J. for reference).

3. Start using his mind to create something that he really can throw at Superman.

He already has a sample of Supes blood, cause he saved a shard of the Kryptonite knife,so he can make a Bizarro, for example. (In fact, Nuclear Man WAS a Bizarro-like Luthor creation, made with a piece of Superman's hair; the difference is that it sucked).

And that's only ONE idea.

Let's not forget that, even if Kitty threw away the Krypton cristals, there's still the miniature NK at Luthor's basement. Maybe he can grow more crystals... or maybe SOMETHING ELSE can grow up from that mess. Apocalypse, maybe?

Possibilities... possibilities... there are SO MANY possibilities, and I still think WB will choose the easier route and use Zod. Again.

[BULLITT]

How about;

Brainiac is a Kryptonian A.I that was dormant on Krypton.

He was activated when Superman explored his destroyed birthplace (Jor-El & Lara's home (what remains of it).

Brainiac is designed to protect & promote everything Kryptonian.

He finds Superman on Earth and fails to get Kal-El to join him in re-creating Kryptonian society.

Brainiac is super-pissed (exposure to the primitive Earth cultures: he's picked-up our worst traits)

He meets up with Lex (who still has the leftover shank that he stabbed Superman with).

They create Bizzaro (failed attempt to clone Superman) from Superman's DNA (blood on shank), and then the mayhem begins.

Brainiac and Lex eventually are at odds with one another, because Brainiac thinks Superman's child is an abomination (half human), and Lex wants to raise the child as his own corrupt superhuman meglomaniac.

[GL1]

I don't think Bizarro is the way to go guys... Bizarro's a clone of Superman, that means Bizarro is unorigional. Superman would just be fighting himself. That's not actually cool, guys...

I would prefer Brainiac, grown from the crystals of NK to grow a Doomsday and send it to earth... Luthor, in order to solidfy his place as a public figure would actually HELP Superman, cuz he likes being alive...

Of course, in all honesty, Singer will probably have a some dark haired kryptonian female be the main villain somehow...

[3 Dev Adam]

Please No More Luther

They already shot Luther dead in 1968, stop screaming like a schoogirl on helium!

[3 Dev Adam]

Brainiac is designed to protect & promote everything Kryptonian.

That would be the Eradicator.

[JackBauer]

yes, no more Luther.

but keep Luthor. :)

[Trooper]

i want to see zod + braniac
zod dies
then braniac survives
releases doomsday

[Sub-Zero]

does anyone believe singer when he says that the next villain will be an alien?

[Ceb-Man]

Superman returns sequel...
Brainiac and Lex Luthor.

[3 Dev Adam]

does anyone believe singer when he says that the next villain will be an alien?

No.

[Steelsheen]

Superman returns sequel...
Brainiac and Lex Luthor.
yes :up:

then come the 3rd film... Luthoriac :D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f1/Luthoriac.jpg

[Kroc1138]

I'm sorry the whole darwinist thing is just a rip off of Apocalypse's motive, which was never that interesting in the first place.There you go. :rolleyes: Have I even explained how it would work?? No! So where is all this nonsense coming from??

Besides it doesn't really make sense, Kem-L destroys Brainiac's planet for racial superority reasons and thenm suddenly Brainiac adopts the same ideology as his enemies, wouldn't he have an opposite reaction.What?!?! Where the hell did I say that he adopts the same mentality?? Did you actually read my entire post?? Brainiac isn't a Racist like Kem-L.

Its a really stupid motive.When you rationalize it like the way you did. You have absolutely no grasp on my concept. (understandalby, you can't read my mind) So why are you evn bothering trying to rationalize how it would work??

Besides making him darwinists just makes him a space hitler character and those have done to death, it makes just another space despot, there are about million of them in comics alone.Wrong! For starters, Hitler was more of a megalomaniacal Racial supremacist. He used the notion of Darwinism to get his people to come around to wacky ideas.

My take on Brainiac (as of now) is neither a racist nor a megalomaniac. He actually likes humanity for all of it's flaws and wants to put them through the ultimate tests to see if the can be the great people he thinks they could be. That to him means putting them through hell. THAT'S ONLY PART OF HIS MOTIVATION. I really don't see how that is any similar to Apocalypse, who's motivation is far more sinister.

Hell, social darwinism was animated Grodd's motive in the JL cartoon, it is not orginal, it was been done a million times before.This is one of the many reason why I think debating with you is becoming pointless. You are constantly say that this or that Villain Motive is unoriginal or a rip off of some previous work. When in fact every single Villain cliche is based on some other previous work.
Explain to me waht is so original about a TAS Robot Brainiac, who is a single minded Robot who is bent on destruction based on simplistic computer program gone haywire. It is rip off of so many previous concept that I can't even begin to list them. But for the sake of this debate I will list some of them:
Skynet
The Borg
Many Phillip K Dick Stories

Even Futurama Had an episode which featured Villains with the exact same motive as TAS Brainiac. Watch the episode:The Day The Earth Stood Stupid

Funny episode that really makes the TAS concept of Brainiac look absolutely stupid to me.



Let me ask you something, if you oppose robot Brainiac because you believe he is a "one dimensional character", then why do you support the inclusion of Doomsday, who is nothing more than a one dimensional plot device in the comics? Well since it's impossible for you to see my perspective of things, I would think it's futile for me to write it out. However you asked so I will answer. Doomsday, at first to me, was a somwhat uninteresting character who was an ok plot device. At first I didn't like the concept of the death of Superman even though I bought the TPB and read from cover to cover again and again. (and still found it a good read) As time progressed and I matured, I liked what it showcased from Superman. (in character development) It showed a very human side from him, it showcaed his unblinking duty to his job and to those he loves. Plus it showcased a side of him that wew seldom see from most heroes. His decision to put aside his No killing policy (to get the job done) I think is a side that we should see from heroes. As for Doomsday Himself, I didn't grow to like Him until I read Hunter/Prey which gave him his origins and how his powers work. That along with some of the development of Superman's Character made me enjoy Hunter/Prey. I like that DD was you a typical Villain. He was a Villain of circumstances far beyond his comtrol. (his own nature) He wasn't intelligent but instinctive. Everything that lived was a threat to be destroyed in his simple mind. (which is why I liked the alien Series, the Villain wasn't evil it was a product of it's own nature) That coupled with his powers made him a more interesting Villain. Whether or not he should be on film is actually something I think would be very risky. However I think it's a risk worth taking.

Now as to why I'm turned off to TAS Robot Brainiac, blame it on the writers for not making him interesting. They nver answers the WHY'S of his origins just the most basic hows. They never go back to tie up any losse ends. (and there were LOTS of them in STAS)

If i'm making assumptions its because your being dodgey, you keep on saying you have all these great ideas,Well If I 'm being "Dodgey" as you call it then it's always polite to ask instead of assuming. (I think you know the saying of making assumptions) I've stated time any again that it is an incomplete concept at best and second that if you do have questions then ask away. I have yet to see a question

yet I have to press you to get any info and i have assume things because you are always skecky on the details,Again it's incomplete and constantly changing. That's how writers work. If you want info on some detail then ask nicely. There is almost no reason for assuming anything b/c it deviates from the points at hand. Asking direct questions keeps everything on topic.

you have only recently presnted anything close to clear presentation of your ideas and they are either convoluted or short on important details (ex: you still haven't said what extractly brainiac should look like).Hmm... So For that reason I can't post a concept at all online. I'm sorry but who the hell are you to say what should or should be posted??? If I feel like posting something online, whether or not it's complete shouldn't be an issue.

Your trying to have it both ways, either present your ideas in full or stop mentioning them and work on them for bit before talking about them again,No I'm not. I'm just saying that Judge me for what I've presented, not on your assumptions of what my presentation may or may not be. Your logic is very flawed if you think I'm trying to have things both ways. I'm saying be fair. I was fair in cricitizing your concept. I stuck to what you presented and nothing more.

don't shoot down other people's ideas when your being dodegey with your own ideas.Severely flawed logic. I'm shooting down your concept itself and You are shooting down what you think my concept is. How does that even add up to me being unfair to you when it is clearly the other way around.

[The Overlord]

There you go. :rolleyes: Have I even explained how it would work?? No! So where is all this nonsense coming from??

What?!?! Where the hell did I say that he adopts the same mentality?? Did you actually read my entire post?? Brainiac isn't a Racist like Kem-L.

When you rationalize it like the way you did. You have absolutely no grasp on my concept. (understandalby, you can't read my mind) So why are you evn bothering trying to rationalize how it would work??

Wrong! For starters, Hitler was more of a megalomaniacal Racial supremacist. He used the notion of Darwinism to get his people to come around to wacky ideas.

My take on Brainiac (as of now) is neither a racist nor a megalomaniac. He actually likes humanity for all of it's flaws and wants to put them through the ultimate tests to see if the can be the great people he thinks they could be. That to him means putting them through hell. THAT'S ONLY PART OF HIS MOTIVATION. I really don't see how that is any similar to Apocalypse, who's motivation is far more sinister.

This is one of the many reason why I think debating with you is becoming pointless. You are constantly say that this or that Villain Motive is unoriginal or a rip off of some previous work. When in fact every single Villain cliche is based on some other previous work.
Explain to me waht is so original about a TAS Robot Brainiac, who is a single minded Robot who is bent on destruction based on simplistic computer program gone haywire. It is rip off of so many previous concept that I can't even begin to list them. But for the sake of this debate I will list some of them:
Skynet
The Borg
Many Phillip K Dick Stories

Even Futurama Had an episode which featured Villains with the exact same motive as TAS Brainiac. Watch the episode:The Day The Earth Stood Stupid

Funny episode that really makes the TAS concept of Brainiac look absolutely stupid to me.



Well since it's impossible for you to see my perspective of things, I would think it's futile for me to write it out. However you asked so I will answer. Doomsday, at first to me, was a somwhat uninteresting character who was an ok plot device. At first I didn't like the concept of the death of Superman even though I bought the TPB and read from cover to cover again and again. (and still found it a good read) As time progressed and I matured, I liked what it showcased from Superman. (in character development) It showed a very human side from him, it showcaed his unblinking duty to his job and to those he loves. Plus it showcased a side of him that wew seldom see from most heroes. His decision to put aside his No killing policy (to get the job done) I think is a side that we should see from heroes. As for Doomsday Himself, I didn't grow to like Him until I read Hunter/Prey which gave him his origins and how his powers work. That along with some of the development of Superman's Character made me enjoy Hunter/Prey. I like that DD was you a typical Villain. He was a Villain of circumstances far beyond his comtrol. (his own nature) He wasn't intelligent but instinctive. Everything that lived was a threat to be destroyed in his simple mind. (which is why I liked the alien Series, the Villain wasn't evil it was a product of it's own nature) That coupled with his powers made him a more interesting Villain. Whether or not he should be on film is actually something I think would be very risky. However I think it's a risk worth taking.

Now as to why I'm turned off to TAS Robot Brainiac, blame it on the writers for not making him interesting. They nver answers the WHY'S of his origins just the most basic hows. They never go back to tie up any losse ends. (and there were LOTS of them in STAS)

Well If I 'm being "Dodgey" as you call it then it's always polite to ask instead of assuming. (I think you know the saying of making assumptions) I've stated time any again that it is an incomplete concept at best and second that if you do have questions then ask away. I have yet to see a question

Again it's incomplete and constantly changing. That's how writers work. If you want info on some detail then ask nicely. There is almost no reason for assuming anything b/c it deviates from the points at hand. Asking direct questions keeps everything on topic.

Hmm... So For that reason I can't post a concept at all online. I'm sorry but who the hell are you to say what should or should be posted??? If I feel like posting something online, whether or not it's complete shouldn't be an issue.

No I'm not. I'm just saying that Judge me for what I've presented, not on your assumptions of what my presentation may or may not be. Your logic is very flawed if you think I'm trying to have things both ways. I'm saying be fair. I was fair in cricitizing your concept. I stuck to what you presented and nothing more.

Severely flawed logic. I'm shooting down your concept itself and You are shooting down what you think my concept is. How does that even add up to me being unfair to you when it is clearly the other way around.

Okay you want me to judge your idea, all you did was take the Eradicator character and change hios name to Brainiac, your idea is BINO (Brainiac in name only): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_%28comics%29 the wiki more or less is exactly like your idea. I think Eradicator is a crappy character
and I think your idea is not orginal at all, all you have done is take the Eradicator character and changed his name to Brainiac. That is why your idea is lame.

[Kroc1138]

Okay you want me to judge your idea, all you did was take the Eradicator character and change hios name to Brainiac, your idea is BINO (Brainiac in name only): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_%28comics%29 the wiki more or less is exactly like your idea.No it is at all!! IIRC part of that Premise is a Retcon. (originally Kem-L created the Eradicator) I find it very convient that you don't have any specifics as to how it's at all similar. My Brainiac is a mixing of Pre and Post Crisis versions. Eradicator is a Kryptonian device that is used to preserve the Kryptonian way. It in fact has more in common with the lousy rendering of Brainiac that we see in STAS but used in a far less effective manner. The similarity you some how see is actually very superficial. You grasping at straws you know. I don't ever recall the Eradicator being a Humaniod in his early history. Nor do I see Brainaic ever imitating Superman.



I think Eradicator is a crappy characterThat's you. I don't Think so.

and I think your idea is not orginal at all,Really?? Like yours is?? Have you ever heard of the word adaptation?? It taking events/storyline and characters and applying them to a different medium. (since it's ridiculous in many occassions to copy an paste comics to films)
That's what I did here.
[QOUTE]all you have done is take the Eradicator character and changed his name to Brainiac. That is why your idea is lame.[/QUOTE]Seeing as how I rendered that "point" you attempted to make moot there's little to say here.
You done like my concept, I don't like yours nor do I care to see anything from STAS realized on film.

But back to you point: (I assume this is the passage you are referring to)
In the distant past, a dying alien race created a number of devices to preserve their culture, and sent them into space, where they would encounter other civilization and link their colonies. When a small group of these aliens arrived on Krypton, a militaristic faction, led by Kem-L, killed them and corrupted one of their devices to preserve his ideal of Kryptonian culture; the device would eradicate alien influences, and hence he called it the "Eradicator."

You say that I took the Eradicator and made him Brainiac. The reasons why you are dead wrong are: (from my concept)
1. Brainiac was from Colu and he was from peacful civilization.
2. He wasn't a machine created to preserve His race and destroy others.
He Tries to save his own from an agressive outside force. He's more akin to Jor-El than anyone else.
3. Coluans are Generally Xenophobic, but nonagressive.


Seeing as how you incorrectly correlated my concept with the Eradicator's Retconned origin to me shows something odd about you. What's the point (if any) that you are trying to make??

[batman7289]

lex luthor should be the villian. but so sould be brainaic.
branic can be introduced as the guy who saved lex from the island

[The Overlord]

No it is at all!! IIRC part of that Premise is a Retcon. (originally Kem-L created the Eradicator) I find it very convient that you don't have any specifics as to how it's at all similar. My Brainiac is a mixing of Pre and Post Crisis versions. Eradicator is a Kryptonian device that is used to preserve the Kryptonian way. It in fact has more in common with the lousy rendering of Brainiac that we see in STAS but used in a far less effective manner. The similarity you some how see is actually very superficial. You grasping at straws you know. I don't ever recall the Eradicator being a Humaniod in his early history. Nor do I see Brainaic ever imitating Superman.



That's you. I don't Think so.

Really?? Like yours is?? Have you ever heard of the word adaptation?? It taking events/storyline and characters and applying them to a different medium. (since it's ridiculous in many occassions to copy an paste comics to films)
That's what I did here.
[QOUTE]all you have done is take the Eradicator character and changed his name to Brainiac. That is why your idea is lame.Seeing as how I rendered that "point" you attempted to make moot there's little to say here.
You done like my concept, I don't like yours nor do I care to see anything from STAS realized on film.

But back to you point: (I assume this is the passage you are referring to)


You say that I took the Eradicator and made him Brainiac. The reasons why you are dead wrong are: (from my concept)
1. Brainiac was from Colu and he was from peacful civilization.
2. He wasn't a machine created to preserve His race and destroy others.
He Tries to save his own from an agressive outside force. He's more akin to Jor-El than anyone else.
3. Coluans are Generally Xenophobic, but nonagressive.


Seeing as how you incorrectly correlated my concept with the Eradicator's Retconned origin to me shows something odd about you. What's the point (if any) that you are trying to make??[/QUOTE]

Where does Kem-L fit into Brainiac's history, Pre or Post Crisis? Kem-L, the cleric and events from 200,000 years are from Eredicator's convoluted backstory, they have nothing to do with Brainiac. All you have done is merged two different characters into a convoluted mess. Ever heard of kiss (keep it simple stupid)? The audience doesn't want some convoluted nonsense about Kem-L, Clerics and a war between Kem-L's forces and Colu that happened 200,000 years, that would take too much time away from the main story and is needlessly long and convoluted. Besides its full of holes, you haven't explained how Brainiac even develops his lame @ss Darwinist ideology. Its too convoluted to work on screen and your getting over emotional.

[Amm-arD]

Eradicator sounds a bit lame, Braniac is better^...anyways..i havnt really followed superman in the comics atall but i think the film was brilliant. I have very limited knowledge about his enemies but i heard in Comic Con there was a scene where a huge S appeared with blood dripping down it!! IF that means the death of superman im guessing Doomsday(it really would be a visual feast)..except i agree with a few who say, Braniac in 2, then Doomsday in 3

[Metropolis_Man]

I would like to see Eradicator and Bizarro. It would be nice to see a three way battle between them, and eventually Bizarro realizes he should help Superman and sacrifices himself for Supes in some way.

[3 Dev Adam]

Just mix Eradicator and Brainiac and presto, a great movie character.

[Lighthouse]

I think both Matt and I can agree on this one....
http://smartassery.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/lumbergh1.jpg
Superman faces his greatest foe ever when Lumbergh forces Clark to work on a weekend. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kroc1138]

Where does Kem-L fit into Brainiac's history, Pre or Post Crisis?He doesn't.

Kem-L, the cleric and events from 200,000 years are from Eredicator's convoluted backstory, they have nothing to do with Brainiac.Thank you for stating the obvious. Again, one of the many aspects of adaptations is taking creative liberties. Seeing as how I think that both Brainiac and the Eradicator should be in a movie, I thought of a way to mix both together.


All you have done is merged two different characters into a convoluted mess.Nope. It really isn't that Convoluded. Detailed? Sure! The problem is that you assume that for some reason that all of that backstory is going to be jammed into one movie along with a billion other plot points. The First Rule of having detailed plotlines and backstories is to have the Characters explain them at approapriate Times. It's that simple. You are just making things sound more complicated than they really are.


Ever heard of kiss (keep it simple stupid)?
Who hasn't. However, it works in varying degrees. In Action Movies and Comedies, it works to a small degree if you want cheap thrills, lots of action and laughs. Sci-Fi, Fantasy (esp Superhero movies) need more.


The audience doesn't want some convoluted nonsense about Kem-L, Clerics and a war between Kem-L's forces and Colu that happened 200,000 years, that would take too much time away from the main story and is needlessly long and convoluted. Says you?? What the hell do you know about what an audience wants. For starters, you are definately not giving the General Audience much credit at all with you incorrect, uneducated assumption. Second, Predicting the GA tastes as far as I know is an inexact science to begin with. The GA is very unpredictable on many occasions.

The last point: Again, you go with your foolish assumptions.
What sane person would literally throw in a huge backstory and actually showcase on screen?? Are you really that dense?? The whole notion of that backstory is to show some depth for the Villain. The back story would be explained (in part) by him selectively. The rest would be reveal in approapriate times as things progress. That's how you handle detail.

Besides its full of holes,Really?? Care to explain. All of your points are based on really bad assumptions, so I'd like to see a list.

you haven't explained how Brainiac even develops his lame @ss Darwinist ideology.Again that angle is in the works. The fact that you seem to site it as a "Hole" is ludicrous. Your looking at an incomplete work (I haven't even written anything down) as a script draft. I find your logic quite juvenile.
Its too convoluted to work on screen and your getting over emotional.Really?? Personally, I could care less whether you like my concept or not, if that's what you are getting at. That's how the world works. If anything I'm just baffled by how you debate. For someone who is so passionately against my Idea, I would have expected more detail in why you dislike my idea. Then you judge an incomplete concept like a complete one. You recycle point after point again and again. It get's annoying. That combined with your ignorant assumptions gets old. Again, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, but be on topic when you do.

However, I will say one thing. My Brainiac concept is a bit Much. I know that.
I think that with Movies, risks should be taken. Sticking to a certain status quo makes things get stale. I think that with some refinement that My concept, albeit risky, is a good calculated risk. It's a good mixing of Pre and Post Crisis w/o just cutting and pasting the stories from the comics on film.
Now for STAS, I just didn't like any of it at all for so many reasons. I've posted on it here many a time. It's juvenile writing, full of plot holes, Plot inconsistencies, lousy Villain Portrayals. (Save Luthor and Darkseid) and many other problems I can list on another thread. To me this is the last resource that we should be looking for inspiration for Superman movie storylines. (There is 60 years worth of comics for that)

[Davinder1985]

All the superman villians seem a bit lame. They should try something completely new. Hey maybe even re-imagine superman a bit like they did Batman.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Uhhh why the **** is a made-up character beating Parasite on the front page poll?? Lol.

[The Only Woj]

does anyone believe singer when he says that the next villain will be an alien?

well, Zod is an alien, right?

[BigMac]

Doomsday. That is all.

[Maestro Limpio]

My reasonable Superman Returns 2 idea: Braniac attacks earth, luthor uses braniac's technology to turn one of his thugs (john corben) into metallo and gives him krypronite heart.

My crazy Superman Returns 3 idea: Luthor creates bizzaro. Bizarro fights superman, but eventually turns on luthor. A desperate Luthor utilizes kryptonian technology and tries another cloning experiment which goes horribly wrong. Doomsday is born. Doomsday kills Bizarro, then an enraged Superman retaliates in climactic battle. Doomsday dies, Superman lives, and Bizarro is mourned.

Superman Returns 4: Darkseid? Also, i'd really like to see Luthor's battle armor at some point. Maybe he teams with supes to defeat darkseid at the end?

I'm not a doomsday fan but if they could use him in an interesting way and not have him kill superman, i'd be down. If anyone kills superman, it'd better be luthor or darkseid or someone who's worthy.

[Dotten]

To bad Batman is not an option...

I would love a Supes vs batty movie with Routh and Bale.

[captain_jimbo]

To bad Batman is not an option...

I would love a Supes vs batty movie with Routh and Bale.

Here, here! :up:

[Zigno]

http://supermanhomepage.com/images/real-world2/wizardworld06-07.jpg
http://supermanhomepage.com/images/real-world2/wizardworld06-08.jpg

[3 Dev Adam]

Why Mr. Mxyzptlk is not on the list?

BTW, it took me ten years to get his name right.

[Dangerous]

Its gotta be Braniac.

[Superman \S/]

Brainiac and Luthor team up. :up:

[The Overlord]

He doesn't.

Thank you for stating the obvious. Again, one of the many aspects of adaptations is taking creative liberties. Seeing as how I think that both Brainiac and the Eradicator should be in a movie, I thought of a way to mix both together.


Nope. It really isn't that Convoluded. Detailed? Sure! The problem is that you assume that for some reason that all of that backstory is going to be jammed into one movie along with a billion other plot points. The First Rule of having detailed plotlines and backstories is to have the Characters explain them at approapriate Times. It's that simple. You are just making things sound more complicated than they really are.



Who hasn't. However, it works in varying degrees. In Action Movies and Comedies, it works to a small degree if you want cheap thrills, lots of action and laughs. Sci-Fi, Fantasy (esp Superhero movies) need more.


Says you?? What the hell do you know about what an audience wants. For starters, you are definately not giving the General Audience much credit at all with you incorrect, uneducated assumption. Second, Predicting the GA tastes as far as I know is an inexact science to begin with. The GA is very unpredictable on many occasions.

The last point: Again, you go with your foolish assumptions.
What sane person would literally throw in a huge backstory and actually showcase on screen?? Are you really that dense?? The whole notion of that backstory is to show some depth for the Villain. The back story would be explained (in part) by him selectively. The rest would be reveal in approapriate times as things progress. That's how you handle detail.

Really?? Care to explain. All of your points are based on really bad assumptions, so I'd like to see a list.

Again that angle is in the works. The fact that you seem to site it as a "Hole" is ludicrous. Your looking at an incomplete work (I haven't even written anything down) as a script draft. I find your logic quite juvenile.
Really?? Personally, I could care less whether you like my concept or not, if that's what you are getting at. That's how the world works. If anything I'm just baffled by how you debate. For someone who is so passionately against my Idea, I would have expected more detail in why you dislike my idea. Then you judge an incomplete concept like a complete one. You recycle point after point again and again. It get's annoying. That combined with your ignorant assumptions gets old. Again, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, but be on topic when you do.

However, I will say one thing. My Brainiac concept is a bit Much. I know that.
I think that with Movies, risks should be taken. Sticking to a certain status quo makes things get stale. I think that with some refinement that My concept, albeit risky, is a good calculated risk. It's a good mixing of Pre and Post Crisis w/o just cutting and pasting the stories from the comics on film.
Now for STAS, I just didn't like any of it at all for so many reasons. I've posted on it here many a time. It's juvenile writing, full of plot holes, Plot inconsistencies, lousy Villain Portrayals. (Save Luthor and Darkseid) and many other problems I can list on another thread. To me this is the last resource that we should be looking for inspiration for Superman movie storylines. (There is 60 years worth of comics for that)

I'm sick of this, you think your ideaszare so clear and well thought out, I dare you give them their own thread and see how everyone on this board reacts.

[newmexneon]

I would like to see Metallo in the sequel and a setup for braniac in the third film.

[krisl]

Does anyone know what the clues are in SR that hint at villains in the sequel. This in reference to the producers comments on IESB.

[Steelsheen]

Brainiac and Luthor team up. :up:

hell yeah :up::up:

[_Qwerty_]

Braniac and Luthor team up with Metallo as a henchman.

[EXCELSIOR]

Braniac and Luthor team up with Metallo as a henchman.

Hey SAPH!

[The Kid]

what the hell? no doomsday? I love doomsday.

[The Kid]

Returns 2 - Darksied with Metallo sidestory

Reurns 3 - Brainiac summons Doomsday

that's why you're cool sometimes.

[Sub-Zero]

if those toys are any indication of the next villain(s) i would'nt mind seeing mongul and or metallo. but i see those two as henchmen not as main villains. darksied and brainiac are far better but i bet we'll end up seeing zod again. how can one man revitalize comic book movies with x-men and single handedly destroy the superman legacy all in a matter of 6 years?

[Artistsean]

Heres my idea for the Superman sequal, or somewhere down the line. Maybe the third movie.

Darkseid invades. I think it should include lots of pera demons, and lots of his minions (or at least a few like Kalaback)
I see the city being taken over and Superman actually being completely outmatched (or so it seems).

To get the full Darkseid, they could use the methods they used in Lord of the Rings:
the one used to make Gandolf seem so much bigger than all the other actors.
They could also use a wrestler's body and super impose a great actors head like they did with Gimly.
They could also use the same type of makeup used on Marv in Sin City, and then add in lots of CG and special effects.

He should seem very large, tall and bulky, very massive but not giant. His voice, while being the actor's voice, should be altered a little to give it more other worldyness.

So when Superman finally beats him, after a long battle that makes you think he might actually loose, everyone is so happy that he won and survived.

[h0metwnhero]

well
i think braniac is the best route to go. or possibly the eradicator. i dont think doomsday should be used. i mean cmon he was a tool. when he first came out it was to get dc sales out of the crapper. he had no back story or anything. he literally crawled out of a hole and killed superman. worst character intro i have EVER seen. then they tried to clean it up with a kryptonian story.....ugh its garbage. whoever said jason should be engineered into doomsday shouldnt be allowed to post. i mean your taking a character that killed the character....and making him his son? its an idea pulled out of your ass without taking the character into consideration....almost like what singer did by giving him son.
2nd movie-john corbin...small role....gets hurt...foreshadow of him rolling into a super villain.
luthor....not big....plays behind the scenes
braniac via new krypton tech
huge battle
maybe even throw a few punches this time
a probe from a little planet called apokolips passes by
takes notice...lights the way for numero tres
third movie
boom tubes
parademons
kalibak
darkseid
metropolis is taking as a base of operations, lois is taken captive due to her closeness with the man of steel. if hes seen in metropolis...its curtains for her. it would give him a chance to work with the people of metropolis, jimmy olsen and the scu. just something id like to see.
though if warner bros doesnt give them the budget id say hell no. go smaller and just give a damn good story.

[larryfilmmaker]

a story with villains teaming up... where say one is a god like Braniac or Darkseid, and his lesser partner is Lex Luthor, might be awesome. Of course, Lex would have to be the master manipulator of it, even over his god-like partner in the end... as that's what Superman stories are about... the limitless potential of even the common man. It'd be a nice, dark spin on that theme to have Lex manipulating things thought to be way beyond man's control.

[larryfilmmaker]

I'm all for Darkseid or Bizarro by the way, as I think they best represent stories that need to be told. Braniac is interesting, sure, but he has the worst name ever.


edit: Also, the boy dies and the torch is NOT passed as it should have naturally been. How better to make SUperman relatable to the common man (who loses loved ones and even children to war everyday) than to have him lose a son and fall into a downward spiral. How could Superman handle that? Would he still be there to stop the bank robbers and murderers every day, and would he still be able to live up to his code of honor?

[420KIDD]

How About Isiah Washington From "gray's Anatomy"

[Super Kal]

please God... BRAINIAC AND LEX

[WhatsHisFace]

Braniac and Lex.

[GreenKToo]

I dont know guys.I was wanting Brainiac as well,but mild over at the planet pointed something out.The article says superman will face the ultimate villian from the D.C. universe.It said nothing about it being just from superman's rogue,like Brainiac,or Zod.Now who comes to mind as the ultimate villian from D.C.??? unless the writer really knows nothing of superman,I think he is saying Darkseid.

http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_d4j_ezine&task=read&page=1&category=featured&article=581&Itemid=27

[Lord Blackbolt]

Personally, I really don't care to see and hope to God that Brainiac (if introduced in a later movie) is not like the one used in S:TAS or Smallville. I think there are other Villains out there with a Krypton Origin that can be used. I think that Superman Returns can set up the Eradicator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_%28comics%29). Brainiac should be more faithful to the comic Origins but be a mix of both PreCrisis Brainiac and Post Crisis.


But both PreCrisis and Post Crisis brainaic are a convoluted mess

[Lord Blackbolt]

You say that I took the Eradicator and made him Brainiac. The reasons why you are dead wrong are: (from my concept)
1. Brainiac was from Colu and he was from peacful civilization.
2. He wasn't a machine created to preserve His race and destroy others.
He Tries to save his own from an agressive outside force. He's more akin to Jor-El than anyone else.
3. Coluans are Generally Xenophobic, but nonagressive.



Yeah, but comic Brainaic has changed and evolved so many times it's hard to keep up. The STAS didn't create the robotic Brainaic. Remember in the 80's before the Crisis, Brainaic was some robot looking guy flying around in a big robot looking skull ship.

Or that mentalist that was possessed by the spirit of the Colu Alien.

Or the alien computer virus from the future that tries to evolve Metropolis into the world of Tommorrow.

I can go on and on....there's just so many versions of the character.

And in my opinion, I found the whole Colu angle to be the weakest. I find the alien computer Brainaic to be the more realistic creeper versions. More cold and emotionless. You might find that boring, but I find that more chilling. You can't reason with a computer.