Lex Corp

[The Overlord]

Do you think Lex should use what's left of that old widow's money to start Lex Corp in the next film, after he gets off that island? I mean it might be tricky to link him to this scheme in SR, so I don't see why he couldn't do it.

[DorkyFresh]

well first they have to worry about coming up with a way for Lex to escape being locked up for the rest of his life, hehe.

[NotFadeAway]

There will NEVER be a Lexcorp as long as Singer's in charge :mad:

[NotFadeAway]

I don't even want Lex in the sequel if he is going to act like a doof........either he is written like he was in the beatdown scene but for the whole movie, or nothing.

And NO god damn Kitty!!!!

[The Overlord]

well first they have to worry about coming up with a way for Lex to escape being locked up for the rest of his life, hehe.

What evidence is there to link him to that scheme in SR?

[NotFadeAway]

My biggest gripe with Superman Returns......Lex Luthor!!!!!!!!!

[Eros]

What evidence is there to link him to that scheme in SR?

the testimony/witnesses of Lois Lane[top level reporter],Richard white [newphew of Perry white], SUPERMAN[who can provide proof], Jason White, among many other things. so no the chances of Lex starting Luthor corp after trying to destroy America is 0 percent.

[Spike_x1]

There will NEVER be a Lexcorp as long as Singer's in charge :mad:Sadly, this is probably true :( :down

[Sub-Zero]

well he is a capitalist bastard so i think that if lex does come back there may be a way to start up lex corp. he could always pay off judges and others and get off scot free. money is power and if you have enough you can get away with murder. i would've loved if superman came back and:
1.lois was married to someone else(no kid)
2.pa kent was still alive.
3. luthor is running for president(and leading in the polls).
4. luthor secretly behind CADMUS orders the creation of metallo to distract and eventually kill supes so he doesn't get in the way of luthor's master plan to be the most powerful man in world.

[Lt. Figgnuts]

In the movie continuity, I doubt that we'll see LexCorp. He's a known criminal, and after the events of SR he's probably wanted again.

This is because, obviously, SR is based off of Donner's first two films, which were made Pre-Crisis. Pre-Crisis Lex wasn't a billionare businessman, but a wacky evil genius bent on destroying Superman. Donner changed him a bit for the film, but Hackman's Lex still has more Pre-Crisis in him than Post-Crisis.

SR does what it can to update Lex so he's more in line with the Post-Crisis version (such as him inheriting a fortune from an old woman), but there's only so much they can do with the continuity that's been set in place for the movies.

I don't see it happening in the films.

[NotFadeAway]

well he is a capitalist bastard so i think that if lex does come back there may be a way to start up lex corp. he could always pay off judges and others and get off scot free. money is power and if you have enough you can get away with murder. i would've loved if superman came back and:
1.lois was married to someone else(no kid)
2.pa kent was still alive.
3. luthor is running for president(and leading in the polls).
4. luthor secretly behind CADMUS orders the creation of metallo to distract and eventually kill supes so he doesn't get in the way of luthor's master plan to be the most powerful man in world.

Venom likes those idea's.....

[CGHulk]

The fortune Lex swindled out of the old women, he'll now use that money to build Lex Corp, now that Kitty ruined his last venture by throwing out the crystals!

[Kroc1138]

I'm sorry But ppl should get over the fact that Lex is not a Tycoon in this movie. It wouldn't work and did barely worked in any medium, including the comics. The main reason it fails to work is because Lex isn't really a proactive lead Villain anymore. He's just a brooding side character with an obsession with Superman. In all mediums in which Lex has been portrayed as a Tycoon/CEO, he is aways summarily removed from that title. The reason is Obvious. Regardless, what should matter to Lex's Portrayal is that he can stand up to Superman b/c of his Smarts and not his status.

[NotFadeAway]

Bryan Singer :

What the hell is Lexcorp? That wasn't in Richard Donner's film!

[Sub-Zero]

Venom likes those idea's.....

those were my thoughts when i heard it would be called "superman returns." boy was i wrong. not that the movie was bad. i just wish there was more action, and less nonsense.

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Bryan Singer :

What the hell is Lexcorp? That wasn't in Richard Donner's film!

Nor was it in the comics until 1986.

[Sub-Zero]

well that was the whole 80s revamp. what's the most evil thing during the eighties? corupt businessmen.

[Spike_x1]

well that was the whole 80s revamp. what's the most evil thing during the eighties? corupt businessmen.And, despite what Kroc says, the business man angle did work. He manipulated innocent and guilty people alike into doing his bidding and getting the s**t end of the stick all of the time. He tormented naive people with temptations of fame and fortune at huge expense for his own enjoyment. He blew up Metropolis as a contingency plan when he lost control of his city. He traded his soul for a body in peak human conditioning (why is he so skinny in the comics now?), and he built his empire through his own genius and manipulation skills that are second to none. And he traded his own infant daughter for technology from the future.

I'm sorry, but Lex's business man angle worked so much better for Superman's arch nemesis than just another mad scientist.

[GL1]

First of all, Lex in SR was an eccentric business man, not a mad scientist... he had an aggressive, illegal and fundamentally revolutionary business plan... he did not have any mad science going on at all. He was there to make money... period.

the testimony/witnesses of Lois Lane[top level reporter],Richard white [newphew of Perry white], SUPERMAN[who can provide proof], Jason White, among many other things. so no the chances of Lex starting Luthor corp after trying to destroy America is 0 percent.

Lois Lane-- She had NO evidence.
Richard White-- Was NOT an eyewitness
Jason White-- Is a child and can be dismissed easily. Nor is it safe for Lois to put him on stand to testify how he shoved a piano and killed a guy.
Superman-- Doesn't make court dates, read miranda rights (as per the movie) and has no physical evidence that Luthor was involved.

The only thing Luthor has against him is Lois' eyewitness account that Lex had a plan to drown the world... which is rediculous. With no evidence linking Luthor to the island, any lawyer could get Lex off the hook, and with a fortune in his pocket, Luthor can afford the very best.

As far as LexCorp goes, it could be natural for Luthor to create a LexCorp as he bides his time until the next big thing comes along, or to establish a powerbase to make more aggressive comprehensive business moves...

But if Singer decides to have Luthor bide his time some other way that'd be cool... I don't see a reason to turn Luthor all suave and debonair, though, putting on the act for an upscale party would be cool, so we could "see" Post-Crisis lex and at the same time realize acting fufu is not essential to his character...

[Kroc1138]

And, despite what Kroc says, the business man angle did work. He manipulated innocent and guilty people alike into doing his bidding and getting the s**t end of the stick all of the time. He tormented naive people with temptations of fame and fortune at huge expense for his own enjoyment. He blew up Metropolis as a contingency plan when he lost control of his city. He traded his soul for a body in peak human conditioning (why is he so skinny in the comics now?), and he built his empire through his own genius and manipulation skills that are second to none. And he traded his own infant daughter for technology from the future.

I'm sorry, but Lex's business man angle worked so much better for Superman's arch nemesis than just another mad scientist.And when has he shown that he can truly stand up to Superman instead of Brooding about how he want to destroy him. The Truth is that Both versions of Lex were flawed. One was a Super smart Deus Ex Machina and the other was Brooding side character. Those were their Flaws. I just found corporate Lex boring because he rarely took the fight to Superman. Which is what make a villain like Lex interesting. Despite the fact that he is no Physical match for Superman, his boldness and his brains made up for it in spades. However a merit to Corporate Lex is that he is very manipulative which is a Lex Trademark.

To me I think that we should stop trying to adhere to one era of Superman storytelling and appreciate both sides. There's always a middleground for everything.

[Katsuro]

If they can somehow write a way for Lex to avoid prison, I'd love for him to start up LexCorp. Perhaps Brainiac could ally with Lex, and somehow keep Luthor out of prison, who knows, I aint a writer. I definatley wouldn't mind seeing Lex who's a tad bit closer too Post-Crisis (although I still loved Spacey's portrayal).

[NotFadeAway]

Nor was it in the comics until 1986.

Bryan Singer: Superman was in a comic book, get out!!!!

[Spike_x1]

First of all, Lex in SR was an eccentric business man, not a mad scientist... he had an aggressive, illegal and fundamentally revolutionary business plan... he did not have any mad science going on at all. He was there to make money... period.Lex might've only worn business suits throughout the movie (except in the museum scene), but he was still the mad scientist of pre-crisis years. He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is. :confused::down

The fact that he was going to capitalize on it doesn't change it from being mad science in the least. Lex's final intent might have been business oriented, but the means by which he went about it (and the whole plan in general) was pure science fiction, as well as being villainous; therefore, we have mad science.

[Spike_x1]

And whenm has he shown that he can truly stand up to Superman instead of Brooding about how he want to destroy him. The Truth is that Both versions of Lex were flawed. One was a Super smart Deus Ex Machina and the other was Brooding side character. Those were their Flaws. I just found corporate Lex boring because he rarely took the fight to Superman. Which is what make a villain like Lex interesting. Despite the fact that he is no Physical match for Superman, his boldness and his brains made up for it in spades. However a merit to Corporate Lex is that he is very manipulative which is a Lex Trademark.

To me I think that we should stop trying to adhere to on era of Superman storytelling and appreciate both sides. There's always a middleground for everything.I'll agree with that.

[The Overlord]

And when has he shown that he can truly stand up to Superman instead of Brooding about how he want to destroy him. The Truth is that Both versions of Lex were flawed. One was a Super smart Deus Ex Machina and the other was Brooding side character. Those were their Flaws. I just found corporate Lex boring because he rarely took the fight to Superman. Which is what make a villain like Lex interesting. Despite the fact that he is no Physical match for Superman, his boldness and his brains made up for it in spades. However a merit to Corporate Lex is that he is very manipulative which is a Lex Trademark.

To me I think that we should stop trying to adhere to one era of Superman storytelling and appreciate both sides. There's always a middleground for everything.

Corporate Lex is a far better villain than Superman, because he is truly Superman's opposite. Lex represents the worst of America: greed, arrogance and ruthlessness, while Superman represents the best of America: kindness, compansion and mercy. That's a far better dynamic than superman vs. a generic mad scienctist. Plus Post crisis has a better motive, he is jealous of superman, angry about how he is no longer the most powerful man in Metropolis and he believes Superman is a threat, because Lex is corrupt, he believes Superman will become corrupt and will impose his will on the Earth, Lex sees himself as Earth's defender who has a duty to stop an alien invader with the more power than any one being should have. That is far more interesting than being mad at Superman because he lost his hair.

[Jakomus]

Lex Corp would remove Luthor's ingenuity. It would just be used as a Deus Ex Machina for Lex.

[Kroc1138]

Corporate Lex is a far better villain than Superman, because he is truly Superman's opposite. Lex represents the worst of America: greed, arrogance and ruthlessness, while Superman represents the best of America: kindness, compansion and mercy. That's a far better dynamic than superman vs. a generic mad scienctist.Correct but the general problem with this Lex is that he isn't proactive in himself to try to deal with Superman. He isn't (can't be) bold. Another aspect that makes him interesting is that he is so bold to try to challenge a Godlike being and he can sometimes succede.

Simplistically, Lex should be a Mental challenge to Superman. That's what the character should be about.

Plus Post crisis has a better motive, he is jealous of superman, angry about how he is no longer the most powerful man in Metropolis and he believes Superman is a threat, because Lex is corrupt, he believes Superman will become corrupt and will impose his will on the Earth,The Jelousy angle os dead on but the latter part of your explanarion is embellished. Luthor for the most part has never really had any delusions as to what he really is. He may see himself in that light publically, but he knows he's not a nice guy.

Lex sees himself as Earth's defender who has a duty to stop an alien invader with the more power than any one being should have. That is far more interesting than being mad at Superman because he lost his hair.While you are right that PreCrisis Lex's Motivation for hating Superman is truly absurd. I think you might be embellishing a bit on what Lex thinks of himself.(as a savior) Post Crisis Still portrayed him as a megalomaniac who was jelous of Superman. It's my opinion that Post Crisis Lex should be on Films b/c he in the end is just a brooding secondary Villain. Lex should be more, and I think that again combining both versions can work.

[Kroc1138]

Lex Corp would remove Luthor's ingenuity. It would just be used as a Deus Ex Machina for Lex.It also Sets potentially bad Precident of Rehashing. Plus Luthor can't be a proactive Villain b/c he is a Public figure.

[Jakomus]

It also Sets potentially bad Precident of Rehashing. Plus Luthor can't be a proactive Villain b/c he is a Public figure.Not to mention the evil corporate businessman angle got old in the 80's.

[The Overlord]

Correct but the general problem with this Lex is that he isn't proactive in himself to try to deal with Superman. He isn't (can't be) bold. Another aspect that makes him interesting is that he is so bold to try to challenge a Godlike being and he can sometimes succede.

Simplistically, Lex should be a Mental challenge to Superman. That's what the character should be about.

The Jelousy angle os dead on but the latter part of your explanarion is embellished. Luthor for the most part has never really had any delusions as to what he really is. He may see himself in that light publically, but he knows he's not a nice guy.

While you are right that PreCrisis Lex's Motivation for hating Superman is truly absurd. I think you might be embellishing a bit on what Lex thinks of himself.(as a savior) Post Crisis Still portrayed him as a megalomaniac who was jelous of Superman. It's my opinion that Post Crisis Lex should be on Films b/c he in the end is just a brooding secondary Villain. Lex should be more, and I think that again combining both versions can work.

In the pre crisis universe all Lex did when being a public villain is end up in jail. Now who seems more intelligent to you, the Lex who contolled a major corporate empire and had influence around the world or the Lex ended by sharing a cell with Bubbha the love sponge?

[The Overlord]

Not to mention the evil corporate businessman angle got old in the 80's.

The mad scientist angle got old in the 50s.

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Bryan Singer: Superman was in a comic book, get out!!!!

I did see a few homages to the comics in the film.

You know, none of that "Bryan Singer says" stuff is mildly amusing. It's pretty much retarded.

[Spike_x1]

I've gotten a few laughs out of some of them. :confused:

[Jakomus]

The mad scientist angle got old in the 50s.WOW. Very witty and clever.

Lex Luthor isn't a mad scientist in SR.

[Spike_x1]

WOW. Very witty and clever.

Lex Luthor isn't a mad scientist in SR.:confused:Lex might've only worn business suits throughout the movie (except in the museum scene), but he was still the mad scientist of pre-crisis years. He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is. :confused::down

The fact that he was going to capitalize on it doesn't change it from being mad science in the least. Lex's final intent might have been business oriented, but the means by which he went about it (and the whole plan in general) was pure science fiction, as well as being villainous; therefore, we have mad science.

[Jakomus]

:confused:I don't agree with that quote. By that logic, any time post-crisis Lex uses kryptonite on Superman he is a mad scientist.

[Spike_x1]

You're misinterpretted that to a very large degree. There's a big storytelling difference between using a small green rock and trying to grow your own continent out of alien technology.

[Jakomus]

You're misinterpretted that to a very large degree. There's a big storytelling difference between using a small green rock and trying to grow your own continent out of alien technology.That small green rock is also alien. In both cases, Luthor is using them to get rid of Superman.

[Spike_x1]

One is just science to get rid of Superman. The other is stolen alien technology used to get rid of Superman, sink the world's other landmasses, and would have eventually resulted in the extinction of the human race.

Big difference.

[Superman79]

the testimony/witnesses of Lois Lane[top level reporter],Richard white [newphew of Perry white], SUPERMAN[who can provide proof], Jason White, among many other things. so no the chances of Lex starting Luthor corp after trying to destroy America is 0 percent.

That would only work so far...that and what law did he break? There is no 100% sure way to like the quakes and tidal wave to New kryp. So really, he's not guilty of violating any laws by conducting an "experiment" which is what he could pawn it off as despite what Lois and Co. might say.

[GL1]

Lex might've only worn business suits throughout the movie (except in the museum scene), but he was still the mad scientist of pre-crisis years. He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is. :confused::down

The fact that he was going to capitalize on it doesn't change it from being mad science in the least. Lex's final intent might have been business oriented, but the means by which he went about it (and the whole plan in general) was pure science fiction, as well as being villainous; therefore, we have mad science.

So all Sci-Fi villains are mad scientists? If so, what's so bad about that? Darth Vader, Q, heck... Sinestro and his Alien technology, all Mad Scientists. You make it sound as thought Lex can't be a mad scientist and a legitimage businessman at the same time. He's been doing it in the comics for years.

Also, notice that in every medium Lex appears in, he gradually moves towards the Mad Science angle. Why is that. Because the only way a human can attack Superman is with either magic or technology and, for a businessman like Lex, developing technology is so natural. The other option is for Lex to be a non-threat... a cameo. Either be a non-threat cameo with some good lines or join the ranks of the greatest villains of myth and defeat Gods. What would a businessman like Lex choose?

Also, this Mad Scientist (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Amad+scientist) thing is misinterpreted:

1) The only thing that SR and Pre-Crisis Lex had in common was technically both being "Mad Scientists." SR Lex was not crazy, neither anti-social nor stuck in a lab,

2) Mad Science doesn't mean you have to be crazy. Any eccentricity or unconventional thinking qualifies you to be a "mad" scientist.

3) No actual scientific work is actually required to be a Mad Scientist. If you use alien technology, (and are unconventional or villainous in it's use) you are a mad scientist. Press a button, you are a mad scientist by definition, whether you actually do anything scientific with it or not. That's why Darth Vader, using midiclorians and the force is a mad scientist, as well as Sinestro, using Qwardian tech, is also a mad scientist. No science is requred to be a "mad scientist" only fictional technology.

In short, while SR Lex Luthor was a mad scientist, and so was Pre-Crisis, Lex Luthor was neither Mad, nor much of a scientist. How this makes his character "like Pre-Crisis" or less engaging than a sedentary Businessman, I do not know. I do know that the movie showed that nothing Earthly can stand up to Superman... as it well should be.

[Katsuro]

Bryan Singer :

What the hell is Lexcorp? That wasn't in Richard Donner's film!

venom420 : My opinions are worthless and you should ignore me. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Look, I can falsely quote people too! Maybe I should put that in my sig...

[Jakomus]

One is just science to get rid of Superman. The other is stolen alien technology used to get rid of Superman, sink the world's other landmasses, and would have eventually resulted in the extinction of the human race.

Big difference.I see your problem. You would rather have a mediocre businessman villain than a villain with an interesting plot. Why? Because you're ashamed of being a comic book fan. You want the general public to see a 'realistic' Superman film because you're scared they will make fun of a film with -gasp- strong fantasy elements!

It's a common problem with post-crisis Superman fans.

[The Overlord]

I see your problem. You would rather have a mediocre businessman villain than a villain with an interesting plot. Why? Because you're ashamed of being a comic book fan. You want the general public to see a 'realistic' Superman film because you're scared they will make fun of a film with -gasp- strong fantasy elements!

It's a common problem with post-crisis Superman fans.

Interesting plot? Lex's plot was total crap, a six year old could have come up with a better plot. If Lex had created alien tech weapons to conquer the world and battle superman, that would have been better than a bad real estate scam.

[GL1]

Interesting plot? Lex's plot was total crap, a six year old could have come up with a better plot. If Lex had created alien tech weapons to conquer the world and battle superman, that would have been better than a bad real estate scam.

So it would have been better to make a big kryptonian warship, and learn how to fly it and shoot it and all that, than to just make a big kryptonite landmass.

No, the only thing Lex's plot missed was mindless action. Sounds good to me.

[Spike_x1]

So all Sci-Fi villains are mad scientists?Where did I say that? :confused:If so, what's so bad about that? Darth Vader, Q, heck... Sinestro and his Alien technology, all Mad Scientists. You make it sound as thought Lex can't be a mad scientist and a legitimage businessman at the same time. He's been doing it in the comics for years.

Also, notice that in every medium Lex appears in, he gradually moves towards the Mad Science angle. Why is that. Because the only way a human can attack Superman is with either magic or technology and, for a businessman like Lex, developing technology is so natural. The other option is for Lex to be a non-threat... a cameo. Either be a non-threat cameo with some good lines or join the ranks of the greatest villains of myth and defeat Gods. What would a businessman like Lex choose?A businessman like Lex would have made the land of NK appealing for people to live on and would've planted it in a place where it wouldn't kill billions of people. He also would have used the Kryptonian technology to make money and actually start a business, hence the whole "businessman" title that he seems to have acquired, even though he did nothing business oriented in the actual movie.Also, this Mad Scientist (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Amad+scientist) thing is misinterpreted:

1) The only thing that SR and Pre-Crisis Lex had in common was technically both being "Mad Scientists." SR Lex was not crazy, neither anti-social nor stuck in a lab,

2) Mad Science doesn't mean you have to be crazy. Any eccentricity or unconventional thinking qualifies you to be a "mad" scientist.He seemed pretty crazy to me. He was going to kill a zillion people with his radioactive island, sink a good chunk of North America, he didn't create any weapons to defend his island with (NK's defence should've been Lex's first priority), and did he actually think that the rest of the world would've let him get away with his actions? Without weapons, it's not like he could've prevented a military force from kicking his ass.

Maybe he wasn't stark raving mad and waving his arms around, but yes, SR's Lex did seem pretty crazy, IMHO.3) No actual scientific work is actually required to be a Mad Scientist. If you use alien technology, (and are unconventional or villainous in it's use) you are a mad scientist. Press a button, you are a mad scientist by definition, whether you actually do anything scientific with it or not. That's why Darth Vader, using midiclorians and the force is a mad scientist, as well as Sinestro, using Qwardian tech, is also a mad scientist. No science is requred to be a "mad scientist" only fictional technology.I don't agree with that at all. Yes, fictional technology is often a large part of being a mad scientist, but actually being a scientist is also part of the job description.In short, while SR Lex Luthor was a mad scientist, and so was Pre-Crisis, Lex Luthor was neither Mad, nor much of a scientist. How this makes his character "like Pre-Crisis" or less engaging than a sedentary Businessman, I do not know. I do know that the movie showed that nothing Earthly can stand up to Superman... as it well should be.He was a scientist in SR. He learned all about the kryptonian technology and how to manipulate it at the Fortress. He came to understand the science of it all, and therefore, we have ourselves a scientist.

And as for Post-Crisis Lex, yes, he is a scientist as well, but he's not often depicted as a Mad scientist (at least he wasn't depicted that way before a couple years ago).

[Spike_x1]

I see your problem. You would rather have a mediocre businessman villain than a villain with an interesting plot. Why? Because you're ashamed of being a comic book fan. You want the general public to see a 'realistic' Superman film because you're scared they will make fun of a film with -gasp- strong fantasy elements!

It's a common problem with post-crisis Superman fans.You're assuming waaay too much here and putting words in my mouth :rolleyes:. At least GL1 can debate intelligently.

[GL1]

Where did I say that? :confused:
He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is.

The use of alien tech to kill people makes him a mad science... or if he was an alien using his own fictional tech, he wouldn't be a mad scientist?

A businessman like Lex would have made the land of NK appealing for people to live on and would've planted it in a place where it wouldn't kill billions of people. He also would have used the Kryptonian technology to make money and actually start a business, hence the whole "businessman" title that he seems to have acquired, even though he did nothing business oriented in the actual movie.He seemed pretty crazy to me. He was going to kill a zillion people with his radioactive island, sink a good chunk of North America, he didn't create any weapons to defend his island with (NK's defence should've been Lex's first priority), and did he actually think that the rest of the world would've let him get away with his actions? Without weapons, it's not like he could've prevented a military force from kicking his ass.

I think the movie was pretty clear that he was just putting his plan into action. There's no reason to think Lex wasn't going to make his land appealing and create/acquire weaponry before he went on the market.

Also, killing people does not make it not business. Post Crisis lex kills people a plenty, but it doesn't make him not a businessman. Being a killer doesn't mean you're crazy either, that's why crazy people go to asylums and normal killers go to prison.

And again, even if the military had miraculously figured out that Lex Luthor was the creator of this mysterious island and mounted a full force attack, a flick of the wrist would have turned all of their weaponry off.

Maybe he wasn't stark raving mad and waving his arms around, but yes, SR's Lex did seem pretty crazy, IMHO.I don't agree with that at all. Yes, fictional technology is often a large part of being a mad scientist, but actually being a scientist is also part of the job description.He was a scientist in SR. He learned all about the kryptonian technology and how to manipulate it at the Fortress. He came to understand the science of it all, and therefore, we have ourselves a scientist.

I disagree. He learned how to operate technology. Every office worker is not a computer scientist. The only science he demonstrated was combining Kryptonite with the info crystals. We can say he knew some things about the kryptonian tech, but, having some knowledge you don't use or care about hardly makes you a scientist either. He may have been a scientist, and had information to do more science, but he wasn't actually doing anything I didn't learn in fourth grade.

And as for Post-Crisis Lex, yes, he is a scientist as well, but he's not often depicted as a Mad scientist (at least he wasn't depicted that way before a couple years ago).

Yes, Post Crisis Lex is less eccentric, and therefore "less mad" and definitely less useful in a storyline as a villain. It takes an eccentric genious like SR or Pre-Crisis or Post-Presidency lex to matter in a Superman story. Otherwise, Lex is just a supporting character, easily replaced by Justin Hammer, Wilson Fisk, Ted Kord or an angry Bruce Wayne.

[Spike_x1]

edit

[Spike_x1]

The use of alien tech to kill people makes him a mad science... or if he was an alien using his own fictional tech, he wouldn't be a mad scientist?It would depend entirely on how the role is written and played out.I think the movie was pretty clear that he was just putting his plan into action. There's no reason to think Lex wasn't going to make his land appealing and create/acquire weaponry before he went on the market.There's no way people would've paid money to live on that island after it (hypothetically) killed billions of people. Living on New Krypton would be like living on the graves of all the people who died. No one would be so indecent as to live on that rock, no matter what shine Lex puts on it to try and attract customers.

And about the lack of defensive measures on NK, if Lex could create kryptonian weaponry, why wasn't that the first thing he did? One would think that defences would be a top priority and Lex would want to have them set up in advance. Thank God the military was mysteriously absent from the climax of SR. If Lex could defend himself, it's crazy that he decided not to.Also, killing people does not make it not business. Post Crisis lex kills people a plenty, but it doesn't make him not a businessman. Being a killer doesn't mean you're crazy either, that's why crazy people go to asylums and normal killers go to prison.Post-Crisis Lex doesn't kill on the scale that SR Lex was planning to do, and he doesn't make it public like SR's Lex was going to do, either.And again, even if the military had miraculously figured out that Lex Luthor was the creator of this mysterious island and mounted a full force attack, a flick of the wrist would have turned all of their weaponry off.Lex was going to open New Krypton for business, making it obvious that he was responsible for the sinking of the East Coast. If someone then decided to walk up to him with a hand gun and shoot him to avenge all of those lost, shutting off electronics wouldn't save Lex at all.I disagree. He learned how to operate technology. Every office worker is not a computer scientist. The only science he demonstrated was combining Kryptonite with the info crystals. We can say he knew some things about the kryptonian tech, but, having some knowledge you don't use or care about hardly makes you a scientist either. He may have been a scientist, and had information to do more science, but he wasn't actually doing anything I didn't learn in fourth grade.In the FOS, when he said "tell me everything" and Kitty later said that they spent weeks (I think it was weeks) at the Fortress while Lex studied, he had to have been learning something other than the fact that the tech grows in water and incorporates minerals into it. By asking Jor-el to tell him everything, it's implied that Lex learned everything.Yes, Post Crisis Lex is less eccentric, and therefore "less mad" and definitely less useful in a storyline as a villain. It takes an eccentric genious like SR or Pre-Crisis or Post-Presidency lex to matter in a Superman story. Otherwise, Lex is just a supporting character, easily replaced by Justin Hammer, Wilson Fisk, Ted Kord or an angry Bruce Wayne.This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Personally, it's my opinion that DC Comics already has their fair share of evil scientists and they don't need another. Businessman Lex was something more. He was the guy who manipulated the mad scientists and turned their creations against them while using them to battle Superman, and then came out smelling like a rose in the public's eye. And Superman was helpless to stop him. With Pre-Crisis Lex, Superman could just punch him out and throw him in jail.

[Kroc1138]

In the pre crisis universe all Lex did when being a public villain is end up in jail. Now who seems more intelligent to you, the Lex who contolled a major corporate empire and had influence around the world or the Lex ended by sharing a cell with Bubbha the love sponge?And herein lies the problem. You are wrongfully assuming that I prefer PreCrisis Lex to Post Crisis Lex when both of them in fact are hugely flawed but in different ways. I've listed both of them time and again. For a film something new needs to be done, but the basics of Lex's Character needs to stay the same.

As for PreCrisis Lex not being smart, I think once again that you are embellishing heavily. PreCrisis Lex was a Deus Ex Machina in many of those stories. Seeing as how he was able to sometimes incapacitate Superman (an overpowered one at that) is very telling. But very inconsistent writing and one of PreCrisis Lex's major flaws.

[The Overlord]

And herein lies the problem. You are wrongfully assuming that I prefer PreCrisis Lex to Post Crisis Lex when both of them in fact are hugely flawed but in different ways. I've listed both of them time and again. For a film something new needs to be done, but the basics of Lex's Character needs to stay the same.

As for PreCrisis Lex not being smart, I think once again that you are embellishing heavily. PreCrisis Lex was a Deus Ex Machina in many of those stories. Seeing as how he was able to sometimes incapacitate Superman (an overpowered one at that) is very telling. But very inconsistent writing and one of PreCrisis Lex's major flaws.

Well what do you want, you want a Lex that is willing to fight Superman in public, but not end up in jail after Superman defeats him? How would that be possible? What should he rip off Dr. Doom and get his own country?

Pre crisis Lex was inventive, he was able to make plot devices at the drop of a hat, but had no planning skills what so ever, he was just a plot device factory, he had no good motive and wasn't that interesting. He was as deep as Dick Distardly.

[Kroc1138]

Well what do you want, you want a Lex that is willing to fight Superman in public, but not end up in jail after Superman defeats him? How would that be possible? What should he rip off Dr. Doom and get his own country?I know that I don't want a rehashing of ideas. Putting in Post Crisis Lex into a movie would lead to rehashing as far as what many Post Crisis Fans are concerned. Everybody who wants him in a film want to tack on a Villain he can manipulate, especially dull one Dimensional Villains like Metallo. If that what The Superman Movies are reduced to then I'm not watching. I hate Rehashes. The fact is something new needs to be tried. I think Donner's Film when in the right Direction by keeping with Lex being a criminal who wishes to to Challenge a God-like being. It wasn't perfect, but we got a Proactive Lex. Unfortunately the sequels Screwed everything up. (Save Superman 2) He wasn't a mad scientist with contrived means of Fighting Superman. At the same time he wasn't broody secondary character who does little to deal with Superman.

Pre crisis Lex was inventive, he was able to make plot devices at the drop of a hat, but had no planning skills what so ever, he was just a plot device factory, he had no good motive and wasn't that interesting. He was as deep as Dick Distardly.Who's debating PreCrisis Lex now. He was Flawed. So is Post Crisis Lex. Neither as they were would work well in a movie.

[The Overlord]

I know that I don't want a rehashing of ideas. Putting in Post Crisis Lex into a movie would lead to rehashing as far as what many Post Crisis Fans are concerned. Everybody who wants him in a film want to tack on a Villain he can manipulate, especially dull one Dimensional Villains like Metallo. If that what The Superman Movies are reduced to then I'm not watching. I hate Rehashes. The fact is something new needs to be tried. I think Donner's Film when in the right Direction by keeping with Lex being a criminal who wishes to to Challenge a God-like being. It wasn't perfect, but we got a Proactive Lex. Unfortunately the sequels Screwed everything up. (Save Superman 2) He wasn't a mad scientist with contrived means of Fighting Superman. At the same time he wasn't broody secondary character who does little to deal with Superman.

Who's debating PreCrisis Lex now. He was Flawed. So is Post Crisis Lex. Neither as they were would work well in a movie.

SR is just a rehash of Superman I and frankly I don't see how Lex's obession with real estate is that great a motive either. Movie Lex is as idiot, he always ends up in jail or on an island or somethings, he has never achieved any real victory, he never learns from his mistakes (assuming kryptonite will kill Superman and no will rescue him, despite the fact that happened in the first movie, he still hire idiot henchman, instead of professional mercs and still dates bimbos who have a change of heart and later turn on him). Movie Lex is one of the crappiest versions of Lex I have ever seen.

[Triligors]

I think LexCorp is a possibility. Anyone going to comic-con and is able to ask Singer a question, please, please ask:

"What is Lex going to do with the Vanderworth fortune?"

Note of interest: Gertrude's husband was a widely known business man whose corporation was a high point of Metropolis and the Daily Planet!!!

[Sub-Zero]

i think the whole swindling angle takes so much away from lex. he's a super-genius, but this movie makes him an babbling psycho. i agree this film is requel(a remake/sequel) there really isn't anything original, but it is the best superman movie to date(which isn't saying much).

[Jakomus]

Do you people seriously want businessman Lex? The boring character who doesn't do anything but look mean while sitting behind a chair?

First of all, the whole "I am untouchable because I own the city" was overdone way back in the 80's, and it failed miserably in Fantastic Four. I'm sorry, but Superman isn't Robocop or Batman. He doesn't fight businessman with iffy morals.

I prefer a Lex that actually does things, a Lex that would stab Superman with a kryptonite knife himself. Not boring post-crisis Lex who would hire someone to do that for him.

I don't think you people deserve to watch movies, I swear. You obviously don't know what makes good characters, good characters.

[Spike_x1]

Do you people seriously want businessman Lex? The boring character who doesn't do anything but look mean while sitting behind a chair?

First of all, the whole "I am untouchable because I own the city" was overdone way back in the 80's, and it failed miserably in Fantastic Four. I'm sorry, but Superman isn't Robocop or Batman. He doesn't fight businessman with iffy morals.

I prefer a Lex that actually does things, a Lex that would stab Superman with a kryptonite knife himself. Not boring post-crisis Lex who would hire someone to do that for him.

I don't think you people deserve to watch movies, I swear. You obviously don't know what makes good characters, good characters.Way to be needlessly insulting to anyone whose opinion differs from yours. :rolleyes: :down

[Sub-Zero]

making lex untouchable would've added another dynamic to the story. i would've wanted him to be a presidential candidate. i've said this already though...

[Batx69]

You say you dont want a rehash then you praise SR for being a rehash, do possibly suffer from scitzophreania?

[Jakomus]

Way to be needlessly insulting to anyone whose opinion differs from yours. :rolleyes: :downI'm refering to the people who think a Superman origin story should have the plot from Robocop.

[giggs11uk]

I can see Braniac come down from space and give Lex "powers". Lexiac anyone? Just like the Superman Flyby Script allowing Lex to use this intelligence to break into computers and stuff

[GL1]

It would depend entirely on how the role is written and played out.There's no way people would've paid money to live on that island after it (hypothetically) killed billions of people. Living on New Krypton would be like living on the graves of all the people who died. No one would be so indecent as to live on that rock, no matter what shine Lex puts on it to try and attract customers.

Wait... they would have a choice? Stay on their overstuffed landmasses? Die from diseases of overcrowding and poverty? No, I think there'd be a good billion people who bit the bullet and betrayed their morals so their families could survive.

And about the lack of defensive measures on NK, if Lex could create kryptonian weaponry, why wasn't that the first thing he did? One would think that defences would be a top priority and Lex would want to have them set up in advance. Thank God the military was mysteriously absent from the climax of SR. If Lex could defend himself, it's crazy that he decided not to.

He hadn't done anything yet, I thought that was clear. Lex was sitting there planning out exactly how to use his six crystals and then the ground started shaking. Lex was probably going to get some defenses up, but there was no rush, and then it was suddenly too late. Set them up in advance for what? The military who have NO idea what's going on? All the military could POSSIBLY know is that a big island just showed up out of nowhere. And Lex had the man and firepower to take out a small search/exploration team if they stumbled upon his helicopter.

Again, there was no reason for Lex to have defenses up at the time. There were no, ZERO immediate threats and no candidates to be threats. Except Superman, who should have been dead. The only dumb thing Lex did was NOT stab Superman into a wall with a kryptonite rod and WATCH him take his last breath, though to be honest, he shouldn't have known that Richard and Lois were alive.

Post-Crisis Lex doesn't kill on the scale that SR Lex was planning to do, and he doesn't make it public like SR's Lex was going to do, either.Lex was going to open New Krypton for business, making it obvious that he was responsible for the sinking of the East Coast. If someone then decided to walk up to him with a hand gun and shoot him to avenge all of those lost, shutting off electronics wouldn't save Lex at all.

It's still business, no matter how many people die. (See any Tobacco Company). You assume because he did not have Kryptonian weaponry built the day that he grew NK, that he would not have any when he opened up for business. There's no reason to say that Lex would not have Kryptonian tech before he opened up for business. I don't know why you think he's that stupid. You're not that stupid, I'm not that stupid, why should Lex be?

In the FOS, when he said "tell me everything" and Kitty later said that they spent weeks (I think it was weeks) at the Fortress while Lex studied, he had to have been learning something other than the fact that the tech grows in water and incorporates minerals into it. By asking Jor-el to tell him everything, it's implied that Lex learned everything.

Regardless of what he learned/knows, he didn't really do much that was actually scientific. He wasn't much of a scientist, regardless of how much he knew.

This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Personally, it's my opinion that DC Comics already has their fair share of evil scientists and they don't need another. Businessman Lex was something more. He was the guy who manipulated the mad scientists and turned their creations against them while using them to battle Superman, and then came out smelling like a rose in the public's eye. And Superman was helpless to stop him. With Pre-Crisis Lex, Superman could just punch him out and throw him in jail.

Hmm... businessman Lex is passive, he doesn't get his hands dirty. That means he can't be the main one in a conflict with Superman. Post-Crisis Lex can't get in Supe's face and stab him with Kryptonite and tell him to fly, because Post-C lex has to stay clean. He can't be as intimately intertwined with the story and he must fight Superman by proxy, leaving the story with less weight.

A more aggressive Lex, such as the one in SR (who I beleive was as much post as pre crisis), can get dirty, and thus have direct confrontation with Supe outside of terse statements in his office.

FURTHERmore, the SR concluded, Lex has no options but to become businessman Lex. He has no kryptonian tech, probably only a small bit of kryptonite if any. He has money and he's FORCED to act based on those tools. Businessman Lex, like True Dr. Doom, is born at the end of the movie. So not only do fans get to see Lex Luthor go head to head with Superman one last time, but those who beleive Lex should be a background character will get just that in all subsequent sequels.

I'm happy... why aren't you? :)

[Kroc1138]

SR is just a rehash of Superman I and frankly I don't see how Lex's obession with real estate is that great a motive either. Movie Lex is as idiot, he always ends up in jail or on an island or somethings, he has never achieved any real victory, he never learns from his mistakes (assuming kryptonite will kill Superman and no will rescue him, despite the fact that happened in the first movie, he still hire idiot henchman, instead of professional mercs and still dates bimbos who have a change of heart and later turn on him). Movie Lex is one of the crappiest versions of Lex I have ever seen.Well it isn't perfect. However in Superman the Movie I thought it was better handled than Returns. Lex was alread putting his scheme into motion and then Superman came along. He just went ahead with it and at the same time tried to guage his soon to be archnemesis abilities.
What should have happened in a sequel is that Lex should have tried to learn more about Superman (his secret identity) and figure other ways to exploit his weaknesses.Second he should lay Low.

The Truth about Corporate Lex is that he never remains Corporate for any long period of time because he gets left in the sidelines as a Villain. (and is Ultimately redered irrelavent) To me that wouldn't work in a movie. Lex no matter what era, needs to be a Villain with a presence as a Villain. If not then he's a broody supporting character.

[The Overlord]

Well it isn't perfect. However in Superman the Movie I thought it was better handled than Returns. Lex was alread putting his scheme into motion and then Superman came along. He just went ahead with it and at the same time tried to guage his soon to be archnemesis abilities.
What should have happened in a sequel is that Lex should have tried to learn more about Superman (his secret identity) and figure other ways to exploit his weaknesses.Second he should lay Low.

The Truth about Corporate Lex is that he never remains Corporate for any long period of time because he gets left in the sidelines as a Villain. (and is Ultimately redered irrelavent) To me that wouldn't work in a movie. Lex no matter what era, needs to be a Villain with a presence as a Villain. If not then he's a broody supporting character.

i'm sorry but Lex's plan in the 1978 movie was stupid (I'm willing to forgive that because the movie was made in 1978). Didn't Lex realize that the police would investigate who had the most to gain from the destruction of California and shut down his stupid real estate scam before he could make any money on it. I mean he clearly didn't do any research on his employees, something a Wal-Mart manager would do Why did Lex fire the distraction nuke at new Jersey if he knew Ms. Teschmacher mother lived there, he could have fired it somewhere else and then perhaps Ms. Teschmacher wouldn't have saved Superman. Also why lex just leave Superman in that pool to die, didn't have him killed before his eyes. I'm sorry but movie Lex is an idiot, at least Post crisis Lex can develope a scheme that isn't totally retarded.

Besides I see post crisis Lex as a general, instead of a brooding man. He creates various enemies for Superman to fight, secretly directing them into battle, creating schemes that can't foiled with mere brute force, superman has to use his brain to fight Lex, that's far more interesting than a bad real estate scam.

[Hunter Rider]

I think Lex may well be in the background in the sequel now what he could be doing in the background is building Lexcorp but given that he has been in jail due to using the Donner continuity i doubt we'll see it

[Kroc1138]

i'm sorry but Lex's plan in the 1978 movie was stupid (I'm willing to forgive that because the movie was made in 1978). Didn't Lex realize that the police would investigate who had the most to gain from the destruction of California and shut down his stupid real estate scam before he could make any money on it.Problem 1: Where are they going to start looking?? For starters all they know is that a wayward Nuke accidently hit the San Andreas and caused a major Earthquake. Explain how that leads directly to Lex? (esp: since the military would want to keep their missile fiasco a secret)
Problem 2: The person who was buying up all the "useless" land was some "faceless, nameless guy". How would that lead to Lex if they don't even know who is buying the land.

I mean he clearly didn't do any research on his employees, something a Wal-Mart manager would doYou'd be suprised how much employers don't know about their prospects
Why did Lex fire the distraction nuke at new Jersey if he knew Ms. Teschmacher mother lived there,Problem 3: He didn't know until she told him and from that point he didn't really give a damn. Part of Luthor's flaw is that he relied on Loyalty. Second you are looking at from hindsight. Luthor inspite of his intelligence didn't have that working for him.

he could have fired it somewhere else and then perhaps Ms. Teschmacher wouldn't have saved Superman.You do know that the objective of writing a Superhero movie is to have the bad-guys lose in the end. With all of the hindsight that we the audience has, we can pick apart every single villain's plans for eternity and nitpick every screw up. That goes for every movie/comic/novel/etc. that just the way it is.

Also why lex just leave Superman in that pool to die, didn't have him killed before his eyes.Why would he need to? He had Kryptonite. Plus, he had Superman in a pool, drowning. You are still looking at it with Hindsight!! Plus the reason Superman won in the end was b/c he turned back time. Something Lex couldn't possibly anticipate. For the most part Lex's plan could have worked if he didn't challenge Superman at all. (his overconfidence was his flaw)

I'm sorry but movie Lex is an idiot, at least Post crisis Lex can develope a scheme that isn't totally retarded. I'd beg to differ. I'm sorry but a tycoon who for some reason uses his companies recources to go after Superman is far from intelligent, any competent criminal investigator (Private or otherwise) could see that Luthor is up to something. Tycoon Lex is as full of holes as any Villain. The only scheme that I can say was truly efficient was faking his death.

Besides I see post crisis Lex as a general, instead of a brooding man. He creates various enemies for Superman to fight, secretly directing them into battle, creating schemes that can't foiled with mere brute force, superman has to use his brain to fight Lex, that's far more interesting than a bad real estate scam.Ok how the Hell is that so cerebral? There are soo many problems with that scenario, but I'll ask you how specifically: How is it going to work on the Big screen.