Why no Mandarin

[Doomed Hero Rising]

How did everyone get the idea that we're def. not gonna see Mandarin. Did it get confirmed or something? Why wouldn't he work?

[Cinemaman]

I hate Mandarin.

He has one of the worst names ever!

:mad: :down

[Sardaukar]

Why? Political correctness taken to extreme lengths.

Hell, keep in mind that the Mandarin was even in the 90s animated series.

I don't know, was the cartoon being racist by using this name? You tell me.


A Mandarin was a bureaucrat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucrat) in imperial China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_China). The term originates from the Portuguese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language) word mandarim, meaning "minister" or "counselor", and from the older Sanskrit word mandari (commander) used to translate the Chinese word guan (官). An alternative theory is that the term comes from the Chinese phrase "Mandaren" (满大人), meaning a "Manchu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu) official". The term is also used to refer to the northern spoken variety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_%28linguistics%29) of Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language) because it was the language used among officials during the Ming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_dynasty) and Qing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_dynasty) dynasties.

In the West, the term "Mandarin" is associated with the concept of the scholar-official, who immersed himself in poetry, literature, and Confucian learning in addition to performing civil service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service) duties.

For around 1300 years from 605 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/605) to 1905 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905), Mandarins were selected by merit through the extremely rigorous imperial examination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination).

China has had civil servants since at least the Zhou Dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Dynasty). However most high ranking positions were filled by relatives of the sovereign and the nobility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nobility). It was not until the Tang Dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_Dynasty) when the final form of the mandarin was completed with the replacement of the nine-rank system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-rank_system). The mandarins were the founders and core of the Chinese gentry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentry_%28China%29). The mandarins were replaced with a modern civil service after the fall of the Qing Dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_Dynasty).

The wardrobe of a mandarin during the Qing Dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_Dynasty) involved Manchu official headwear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu_official_headwear) and a mandarin square (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_square). The office and residence of a mandarin was a yamen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamen).

In modern English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language), "Mandarin" is also used to refer to any civil servant, often in a satirical context.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_%28bureaucrat%29

[kedrell]

Mandarin's kind of a magical villan and Favreau wants to go for a more realistic approach ala' Batman Begins. We could see him in a sequel but he'd have to be re-vamped. I don't think PC has anything to do with this one.

[Darthphere]

PC move by the studio. Hes so stereotypically asian theyre afraid of backlash. Its really a fine line when you have a character created specifically to adhere to a stereotype.

[TheVileOne]

Favreau got across on the myspace that they were going for the technology based villains and not the mystical ones.

He said he didn't see how he could incorporate Mandarin from his first appearance in Tales of Suspense.

I imagine the execs. think they would offend Asian viewers and don't feel the character is PC.

[Abaddon]

http://www.matbilder.se/cd-fruktgront/mandarin-01.jpg

[Duncan MacLeod]

I think that everyone's forgetting that the Mandarin originally was a heavily technological character. Most of his schemes involved a lot of high tech stuff, much of it derived from his rings and/or the crashed starship in the Valley of the Dragons. It wasn't until the late 90's that he rejected technology and embraced magic in it's place.

[Ironman24]

I think, like has been said it has a lot to do with Political Correctness, Mandarin may not be seen in a good light in the asian markets,where these movies make there money, especailly China.
I do agree that Mandarin didn't start out Mystical until the 90's when Marvel decided to turn him that way, but in the end even his 10 rings of power where Technology based.
I think, if they use Mandarin, use him in away that show's he's causing all of Starks problems, that man behind the screens, then use him in the third film as that main villian. just an idea anyway.

[kedrell]

Well, whether he's mystical or just has alien tech., it's still not a very reality based way to go, especially when IM has so many other enemies who do fit the credibility bill that a movie will need. In a similar fashion, I'm sure they're not going to go the Secret Wars way in explaining the black costume for SM3.

[theRedRider52]

I bet since they're going tech. based characters than they might go the Russian spy Titanium Man. That would be a good CGI fight.

[Spider - Man]

If we DO get the Mandarin, I don't think he'll be presented in his Fu Manchu personna (a reason why I think a lot of people think he would be a bad idea).

[Lone Wolf]

Favreau got across on the myspace that they were going for the technology based villains and not the mystical ones.

He said he didn't see how he could incorporate Mandarin from his first appearance in Tales of Suspense.

I imagine the execs. think they would offend Asian viewers and don't feel the character is PC.

Also because he wants to give the film a sense of realism, rather than fantasy.

[kedrell]

I read that too. Either alien technology or magic would be too much in the realm of fantasy. They could reinvent him some other way that's more believable and relevant.

[TheVileOne]

I disagree. I'd rather they do Mandarin all the way or not at all. I don't want a watered down imitation like Dr. Doom in F4.

[kedrell]

Then they probably shouldn't do him. IM's got plenty or other realistic enemies to choose from.

[Ironman24]

Then they probably shouldn't do him. IM's got plenty or other realistic enemies to choose from.

I agree, he has a ton of great villians, would I personally like to see Mandarin in a film, sure, but I want to see Crimson Dynamo, Titanium Man, Spymaster, Ghost and the lot much more.

[terry78]

How has the Ultimate universe done Mandarin, if at all?

[TheVileOne]

There isn't an Ultimate Mandarin.

[Doomed Hero Rising]

Maybe Mandarin could be a Chinese bussiness man looking into Starks suits and weapons. He'd try to steal them or something and somehow create or get the rings.

[jaydawg]

This PC stuff is bull****. I have asian friends who love the character. Look at the 90s show. Was The Mandarin at all offensive? Hell no.

[terry78]

The Mandarin is still being featured in current comics, but he's not so much a Fu-Manchu type anymore, just an Asian corporate type.

[TheVileOne]

No. The Mandarin is currently dead in the comics and was succeeded by his son who became the new Mandarin.

Ultimately his son decided not to uphold his father's grudge against Tony Stark after they fought for a while.

The PC stuff is bull****, but that's what Marvel thinks.

Even though most Asians probably wouldn't have a problem with it, Asian civil rights groups would still make a fuss about it.

[Dr.Dude]

I think in general the Mandarin would be too offbeat a villain for the first movie --- you're already busy setting up the idea of this high tech suit of armor, the corporate landscape, so you need a more Justin Hammer-type villain that plays into these themes.

I could see him working his way into a sequel, however. I think it could probably work to play him off in a similar way to Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins, meaning that you wouldn't necessarily deny the more far-fetched aspects of the character, but they won't need to be specifically mentioned either. The rings themselves could benefit from having that sense of mystery surrounding them.

[Advanced Dark]

Dont' count out the Mandarin...but also don't expect to see the character from the comics though they'll use the name they'll bear no resemblence. Oops did I just say that. Gotta run. ;)

[FVD]

Screw the frakkin' PC. Mandarin should be in the movies but yeah not the first movie. He's already gonna be portrayed by an Oriental so what's the frakkin' fuss.

[roach]

Even though most Asians probably wouldn't have a problem with it, Asian civil rights groups would still make a fuss about it.


we live in a world where a film about Jesus somehow came across as anti-jewish so I'd think the studio would want to avoid that sort of mess...you never know what's gonna cook someones bacon

[kedrell]

Apparently they fear no PC. Good!:) :up: