You call yourself gamers?

[Horrorfan]

You call yourselves hardcore gamers, yet one of you said Kingdom Hearts is better than Eternal Darkness, the wonderful looking, original Overlord gets a maximum of three posts (two from me) and only one of you has played Capcom's most underrated game, Shadow of Rome.:down :down :down


SHAME ON YOU ALL :mad: :down


That is all.

[블라스]

Shadow of Rome had HORRIBLE stealth parts, but the combat was fun!

[블라스]

But seriously, relax :confused:
People have different tastes :O

[Horrorfan]

LOL Gammy you should know me well enough by now that this post was lighthearted in tone :p

although I was disheartend not many here played shadow of rome, or care about overlord :(

[XwolverineX]

You call yourselves hardcore gamers, yet one of you said Kingdom Hearts is better than Eternal Darkness, the wonderful looking, original Overlord gets a maximum of three posts (two from me) and only one of you has played Capcom's most underrated game, Shadow of Rome.:down :down :down


SHAME ON YOU ALL :mad: :down


That is all.

Wow, your idiocy knows no bounds.

[블라스]

LOL Gammy you should know me well enough by now that this post was lighthearted in tone :p

although I was disheartend not many here played shadow of rome, or care about overlord :(

Oh, I know :up:

What is Overlord?

[Horrorfan]

Wow, your idiocy knows no bounds.

Go play Pokemon or something, kid :o

[Horrorfan]

Oh, I know :up:

What is Overlord?

Its a really cool cross between fable and lotr. you play the overlord, and you comman all your evil forces (drunken goblins who love beer) and send them to destroy and plunder villages and whatnot...but if they drink too much beer, they loose concentration and get too sloshed to follow your commands. It's very funny from the looks of it :up:

[블라스]

Console?

[Master Chief]

I'm a gamer, but by no means hardcore. :confused: I play games to enjoy them. Sure sometimes I play to win and get achievements and whatnot, but really I'm just playing because they're fun.

[Horrorfan]

Console?

360 baby :D


MC it was mostly a joke, no need to sweat it ;)

[Master Chief]

I'm not sweating. Wouldn't mind a private sauna though.

. . . . . . . .

Everyone loves a sauna.

[블라스]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6303471102.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Indiglo]

*saves sexy richard simmons pic*

[Mr. Credible]

shadow of rome was... okay, i guess.

the steath parts were pure garbage.

[Sabretooth]

Horrorfan,have you ever even played Kingdom Hearts or Kingdom Hearts II?

[jaydawg]

Go play Pokemon or something, kid :o
You say that like an insult. You call yourself a gamer and bash pokemon? :o :down

[XwolverineX]

Horrorfan,have you ever even played Kingdom Hearts or Kingdom Hearts II?


Ignore his pathetic comments. He just needs to get his ego in check. :o

[The Master]

You call yourselves hardcore gamers, yet one of you said Kingdom Hearts is better than Eternal Darkness, the wonderful looking, original Overlord gets a maximum of three posts (two from me) and only one of you has played Capcom's most underrated game, Shadow of Rome.:down :down :down


SHAME ON YOU ALL :mad: :down


That is all.

Never played ED, but send me a copy and I'll give it a try..

[Addendum]

I play games for fun.

Only hardcore I like is lesbian porn, or midgets

[XwolverineX]

I play games for fun.

Only hardcore I like is lesbian porn, or midgets


Midget sex FTL http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/26.gif

[Addendum]

Dude.

Bridget the Midget is hot :D

[lars573]

Horrorfan,have you ever even played Kingdom Hearts or Kingdom Hearts II?
Why would any hetero male (emo's and meterosexuals don't count as hetero males) over the age of 8 want to?

And yes Eternal darkness is far and away better than Kingdom hearts, but even KH is better than that crap Resident evil (which I hate with a passion that burns with the fury of 1000 suns, movies were OK though). It's even better than Onimusha.


Finally DC>Marvel. Because the characters (especially the villians) are better.

[SLVRSR4]

*saves sexy richard simmons pic*


:up: :up: I collected all 150 pokemon yeah i'm embarassed to be a gamer!

[JustABill]

This thread is funny.

[Indiglo]

Why would any hetero male (emo's and meterosexuals don't count as hetero males) over the age of 8 want to?





Does wearing girl pants make me either metrosexual or emu?

[JustABill]

You're A Bird?! :eek:

[Indiglo]

Oh God, what a horrible avatar :eek:

[JustABill]

HEY! Don't mock of the Bill original. I call it Happy in Paris!

And you're still a bird? :eek:

[lars573]

Does wearing girl pants make me either metrosexual or emu?
Only if you cry a lot or primp and preen over your appearance whilest wearing them.

[Indiglo]

Check and check.

[Sabretooth]

Why would any hetero male (emo's and meterosexuals don't count as hetero males) over the age of 8 want to?

And yes Eternal darkness is far and away better than Kingdom hearts, but even KH is better than that crap Resident evil (which I hate with a passion that burns with the fury of 1000 suns, movies were OK though). It's even better than Onimusha.


Finally DC>Marvel. Because the characters (especially the villians) are better.
LOL I can see you haven't played KH or KH2 a day in your life.

I mean,you do realise the game was made by the people of Final Fantasy,right?:confused:

[lars573]

The two reasons why I'll never play KH (and infact gagged when I first heard about it) is because it's full of nausiating Disney saccariness and it's made by Square-enix. I hate Final Fantasy (save FF1), and any other game they've ever made.

[Brainiac 8]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6303471102.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Thanks Gammy, there goes my hopes of having lunch today.:mad: :(

[블라스]

You were probably going to eat something fattening anyway :(

[lars573]

Is semen fattening?

[블라스]

You tell us :(

[Axid]

flaming tortilla rolls strikes again :eek:

[Horrorfan]

Why would any hetero male (emo's and meterosexuals don't count as hetero males) over the age of 8 want to?
.

Exactly. Ditto final fantasy too, for that matter.

But every REAL man is a marvel man :up:

[블라스]

Even more manly if that man likes Daredevil! :up:


:(

[Sabretooth]

Anyone who doesn't like Batman has no dick.:mad: :up:

[블라스]

That mean I like Batman too damn much :( :up:

[Horrorfan]

Anyone who doesn't like Batman has no dick.:mad: :up:

Ironic because most Batman fans would love to suck his :p:o

[Sabretooth]

Nah,most Batman fans just think he's the Jesus of fighting because of prep time.....:confused:

[Horrorfan]

Nah,most Batman fans just think he's the Jesus of fighting because of prep time.....:confused:


That's the thing I hate about Batman and his fans, that prep time crap. No Im sorry, he shouldnt be able to last ten seconds with superman. HE'S A NORMAL GUY.

As much as I rag on DD, at least his fans dont make him out to be some unbeatable fighter who has no limits.

[블라스]

Batman > Batman w/prep time


:p

[Sabretooth]

I agree. I like Batman but not nearly as hardcore as some other people. I think he only spars with Superman and other superpowered people because of his popularity.

And I also LOVE Daredevil. My favorite Marvel hero behind Captain America,Spider-Man,and Cyclops. Man gets no respect. :mad:

[블라스]

He gets enough respect from me :up:

[Sabretooth]

Marvel will have your head for caring more about DD and not Spidey and Wolverine :mad: :(

[블라스]

Marvel can suck my Gammy.

[Horrorfan]

I love the way how, in X2, he hit Lady Deathstrike's feet and fist with his face :up:

[lars573]

You tell us :(
I would have to have eaten some. I know Daredevil can tells us. He's liked a lot of jizzy pops in his day. They told him it was candy. :eek:

[블라스]

I would have to have eaten some. I know Daredevil can tells us. He's liked a lot of jizzy pops in his day. They told him it was candy. :eek:

You lost all momentum :(

[lars573]

Exactly. Ditto final fantasy too, for that matter.

But every REAL man is a marvel man :up:
I forgot pussywhipped. As many married guys love KH. Guess they have far too much estrogen in their diet.

Also a real man loves DC first, with Marvel as sloppy seconds.

[lars573]

You lost all momentum :(
You mean like how those frat guys lost their loads over Matt Murdocks face?

[블라스]

You mean like how those frat guys lost their loads over Matt Murdocks face?

http://fitbygeno.com/images/Tomato-jpg.jpg

[Master Chief]

I don't even wanna knoooow what kind of comic Lars read to know something like that.

[lars573]

http://fitbygeno.com/images/Tomato-jpg.jpg
MM tasty tomato.


I don't even wanna knoooow what kind of comic Lars read to know something like that.
*taps head with index finger* All you need. That is a sick mind and a near sociopathic lack of conciense.

[Horrorfan]

I forgot pussywhipped. As many married guys love KH. Guess they have far too much estrogen in their diet.

Also a real man loves DC first, with Marvel as sloppy seconds.

No a real man loves marvel, and marvel only :p

None of the generic sillyness that is DC.

Lars, am I gonna have to train you like Im attempting to with gammy and dd :(

[lars573]

Actually Marvel has more generic sillyness these days. DC mangaed to purge most of theirs.

[Brainiac 8]

I forgot pussywhipped. As many married guys love KH. Guess they have far too much estrogen in their diet.

Also a real man loves DC first, with Marvel as sloppy seconds.

Yup, because it's real manly to be a man in an S&M costume with a ward in pool boy short shorts.:o :confused:

DCs got it all.

[jaydawg]

This arguement is stupid. DC has better heroes, Marvel has better villains. There.

[lars573]

No DC has better villians.

Yup, because it's real manly to be a man in an S&M costume with a ward in pool boy short shorts.:o :confused:

DCs got it all.
Only 2 heroes that I know of where S&M outfits. Blade and Morbius. Hmm which company are they from?

[jaydawg]

DC has the ****test collection of villains out there. Aside from the Bat rogues, whats left? Lex Luthor, Zoom and a couple other flash rogues. Thats about it. Spidey's rogues and the X-villains alone can then all out in character and personality.

[lars573]

Actually Spidey only has about 6 good villians the rest are crap, or ripoffs of the good 6. X-villians, lol. Find one that isn't a copy of Magneto or Apocalypse's schtic.

Nope Darkseid, the bat and flash rouges, Gorilla Grodd, Paralax, Sinestro, Solomon Grundy. Better than any Marvel villian.

[Brainiac 8]

No DC has better villians.


Only 2 heroes that I know of where S&M outfits. Blade and Morbius. Hmm which company are they from?

Actually Nightthrasher wears S&M outfits too.:O

Even though I was kidding, I was talking about a certain bat. His and robins relationship was always a little wierd.:confused:

Seriously though, I'm a fan of both companies.

Dc is better in continuity, and has their characters with a black and white Good/Evil attitude. Marvel has better villains (aside from Lex Luthor and the Batman rogue gallery as was mentioned), and more human heroes with problems that plague them.

Each is good in it's own way.:)

[Sabretooth]

I forgot pussywhipped. As many married guys love KH. Guess they have far too much estrogen in their diet.

Also a real man loves DC first, with Marvel as sloppy seconds.
Don't be jealous that they're getting more ass than you:( :up:

[Addendum]

I like DC's Vertigo line.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Play Catechumen and Overblood!:mad:

[jaydawg]

Actually Spidey only has about 6 good villians the rest are crap, or ripoffs of the good 6. X-villians, lol. Find one that isn't a copy of Magneto or Apocalypse's schtic.

Nope Darkseid, the bat and flash rouges, Gorilla Grodd, Paralax, Sinestro, Solomon Grundy. Better than any Marvel villian.
WTF books have you been reading? There isnt a single X-men villain whos a copy of either Magneto or Apoc? :o I guess Sabertooth really wants mutant equality. And man, that arc where Juggernaunt tried to kill off the weak was brilliant! And lets not forget that fantastic issue where Sabastian Shaw unleashed his four horsemen!

And Parallax? He's a fear demon. A ****ing yellow fear demon. :down

Grodd? An intellegent gorrila in the DCU? No way! Thats never happened before!

Grundy? Does he even count as an actual character?

Darkseid is a great villain, sure, but he alone doesnt stand up to, say, Dr.Doom.

And please tell me how Spider-man has rip off villains. Cause frankly, only Stan Lee could think of a villain whose powerful enough to take on Superman, yet settles for simple bank robberies due to an infirority complex.

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

Don't listen to him/her they're just trying to wind you up. Besides Mags has more character in his pinkie than any other DC loser villian.

Back to the topic though, you guys who haven't played the game shouldn't comment on how crap it is. In some ways KH is better than the sum of its parts.

[XwolverineX]

WTF books have you been reading? There isnt a single X-men villain whos a copy of either Magneto or Apoc? :o I guess Sabertooth really wants mutant equality. And man, that arc where Juggernaunt tried to kill off the weak was brilliant! And lets not forget that fantastic issue where Sabastian Shaw unleashed his four horsemen!

And Parallax? He's a fear demon. A ****ing yellow fear demon. :down

Grodd? An intellegent gorrila in the DCU? No way! Thats never happened before!

Grundy? Does he even count as an actual character?

Darkseid is a great villain, sure, but he alone doesnt stand up to, say, Dr.Doom.

And please tell me how Spider-man has rip off villains. Cause frankly, only Stan Lee could think of a villain whose powerful enough to take on Superman, yet settles for simple bank robberies due to an infirority complex.

Yeah, the one's you listed suck. Well, Parralex was good, untill that ****ty retcon. :rolleyes: And Darkseid used to be badass, but theese day's he's crap. :o

[lars573]

WTF books have you been reading? There isnt a single X-men villain whos a copy of either Magneto or Apoc? :o I guess Sabertooth really wants mutant equality. And man, that arc where Juggernaunt tried to kill off the weak was brilliant! And lets not forget that fantastic issue where Sabastian Shaw unleashed his four horsemen!
Sabertooth isn't an X-villian. He's the arch enemy of an X-character. Not an X-villian. The hellfire club, gods they suck.

And Parallax? He's a fear demon. A ****ing yellow fear demon. :down
I mean't the real Parallax not the retcon to appease Hal fans.

Grodd? An intellegent gorrila in the DCU? No way! Thats never happened before!
The Ultra Humanite doesn't count. Grodd was first.

Grundy? Does he even count as an actual character?
Does Hulk or Abomination?

Darkseid is a great villain, sure, but he alone doesnt stand up to, say, Dr.Doom.
Dr. Doom couldn't and wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Darkseid.

And please tell me how Spider-man has rip off villains. Cause frankly, only Stan Lee could think of a villain whose powerful enough to take on Superman, yet settles for simple bank robberies due to an infirority complex.
How many times did they ripoff Green Goblin? Even if you don't count multiple guys in the same suit you have 3 copies of the Green Goblin. Hydroman. Chance.

[XwolverineX]

Sabertooth isn't an X-villian. He's the arch enemy of an X-character. Not an X-villian. The hellfire club, gods they suck.


I mean't the real Parallax not the retcon to appease Hal fans.


The Ultra Humanite doesn't count. Grodd was first.


Does Hulk or Abomination?


Dr. Doom couldn't and wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Darkseid.


How many times did they ripoff Green Goblin? Even if you don't count multiple guys in the same suit you have 3 copies of the Green Goblin. Hydroman. Chance.


I'm pretty sure he was talking about his character, not how powerfull he is. Because Darkseid would obviously obliterate Dr.Doom in a fight. :confused:

[lars573]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about his character, not how powerfull he is. Because Darkseid would obviously obliterate Dr.Doom in a fight. :confused:
I know. Darkseid>Doom.

[Phaser]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about his character, not how powerfull he is.

You know it's funny someone mentions that, because around here many posters seem to behave like kindgarten toddlers arguing the superiority of their favorite superhero based on their relative power quotient rather than on elements that actually matter like backstory, personality etc. Kind of like -

"batman sucks supes/spidey would own his ass in a fight"

:down:

[Spidey-Bat]

You know it's funny someone mentions that, because around here many posters seem to behave like kindgarten toddlers arguing the superiority of their favorite superhero based on their relative power quotient rather than on elements that actually matter like backstory, personality etc. Kind of like -

"batman sucks supes/spidey would own his ass in a fight"

:down:

That is quite true. Power and abilities mean nothing to depth when discussing character superiority (And Batman could beat Supes and Spidey:o).

[lars573]

You know it's funny someone mentions that, because around here many posters seem to behave like kindgarten toddlers arguing the superiority of their favorite superhero based on their relative power quotient rather than on elements that actually matter like backstory, personality etc. Kind of like -

"batman sucks supes/spidey would own his ass in a fight"

:down:
I hold concept up high as much as backstory or personality. That's why IMO Darkseid is better than Dr. Doom. Doom is a rehash of the same mad scientist concept that goes all the way back to the Ultra humanite, and Lex Luthor. That's why Spidey only has 6 good villians, the rest just ripoff the 6 good concepts.

[Horrorfan]

Marvel is better than DC.

As Ron Burgendy says, it's science.

[블라스]

I don't sense harmony.

[lars573]

We'll have to send out DD for hookers. He's a lawyer he can afford it. I just hope he doesn't bring back twinks or trannies again. I've told him a 1000 times inies not outies.

[Horrorfan]

We'll have to send out DD for hookers. He's a lawyer he can afford it. I just hope he doesn't bring back twinks or trannies again. I've told him a 1000 times inies not outies.

Cut the guy some slack, hes blind :(

[블라스]

This used to be funny :(

[lars573]

Cut the guy some slack, hes blind :(
No he's just selfish, only bringing back what he wants. He can smell the differnce between a man and woman dammit!

[XwolverineX]

You know it's funny someone mentions that, because around here many posters seem to behave like kindgarten toddlers arguing the superiority of their favorite superhero based on their relative power quotient rather than on elements that actually matter like backstory, personality etc. Kind of like -

"batman sucks supes/spidey would own his ass in a fight"

:down:

Yeah, it is kind of retarded. The exact reason batman changed into the " Batgod " :rolleyes: So he could keep up with DC's other big hitters, when he was never supposed to. :o

[JackBauer]

Marvel is better than DC.

As Ron Burgendy says, it's science.

Ron Burgundy's not very smart. you know that, right? he's actually quite a dullard. :p :D

[Drakon]

I don't normally use this for leverage, but I'm 22 years old. I've been gaming since most of you were just a twinkle in your mother's underwear. 15 years. Out of that 15 years, you're goddamned right I've played crap games. But I've rolled with the best RPGs, Fighters, Actions, and more. With all due respect, I've paid my dues, and I honestly believe my opinions should hold a decent amount of merit, simply because of my time in "the service", as it were. I've seen the rise and fall of Acclaim, Sega, and even more recently, Working Designs [:(:(:(]. I've seen the jump from 4-bits to 8m 16, 32 and 64 and more. Practically owned a Virutal Boy for all of 20 minutes. Back home I still have a perfectly working NES complete with a decent collection like Bigfoot, Friday the 13th, Kirby's Adventure, Final Fantasy, and yes, even McKids. At the risk of sounding full of myself, I don't know why I'm not a gaming journalist.


It takes a lot to make a good game, and sadly some companies have been around forever and will NEVER learn the formula to making a phenominal game. I'll list examples later in a new thread.

I'm a gamer, but by no means hardcore. :confused: I play games to enjoy them. Sure sometimes I play to win and get achievements and whatnot, but really I'm just playing because they're fun.

That's really what it's all about, at the end of the day. That's all it ever should have been. Just a way to have fun and relax

[Drakon]

Why would any hetero male (emo's and meterosexuals don't count as hetero males) over the age of 8 want to?

And yes Eternal darkness is far and away better than Kingdom hearts, but even KH is better than that crap Resident evil (which I hate with a passion that burns with the fury of 1000 suns, movies were OK though). It's even better than Onimusha.

Finally DC>Marvel. Because the characters (especially the villians) are better.

With all due respect, have you even PLAYED the game at all? It's a harsh critisism from someone who's not played more than an hour into it. Now, if you played a Fighting Game or a shooter for about an hour, then yes, I'd let it be, but RPGs are way different. That's like reading the first 5 pages of a book, and deciding you don't like it.

I'll be the first to admit--Eternal Darkness is great. It's nice to have that fear element play into your game, which was why the game sold so well. Resident Evil isn't horrible in terms of idea, but I agree, it's not executed as well as it should have been. Kingdom Hearts is brilliant in a lot of ways that is overlooked--people often pass this game by because it's too "Kiddy", so they go to Grand Theft Auto, where the only concievable plot device is rape and kill hookers and drive bys to The Donnas.

The two reasons why I'll never play KH (and infact gagged when I first heard about it) is because it's full of nausiating Disney saccariness and it's made by Square-enix. I hate Final Fantasy (save FF1), and any other game they've ever made.

The games ARE less dark toned than, say, God of War, admittedly. However, it's not that overly sweet. The kid just wants to go find his friends, and makes new ones along the way. You claim you're a man's man, yet you're too "big" to play this game. Doesn't make sense to me.

And you hate Square Enix? Okay, I'll give you that. Have you ever played Star Ocean? Illusion of Gaia? Vagrant Story? Legend of Mana? Squeenix is a lot more than just a rename of Squaresoft. Try the backlibrary of Enix Games, and some of the lesser known Square ones. The "Chrono" games, especially.

[TrailerCues]

Star Ocean on the PS2 = one of my favorite Games

[Drakon]

Try Star Ocean on the PS. Much better in a lot of ways.

[TrailerCues]

Try Star Ocean on the PS. Much better in a lot of ways.

Already did & I kinda can not stand the outdated graphics:o

[Drakon]

Then you're lost, my friend. Graphics will never a good game make.

[Horrorfan]

Ron Burgundy's not very smart. you know that, right? he's actually quite a dullard. :p :D

Rong Burgendy says ''NO!!!'' :down :mad:

[JackBauer]

well, at least he looks good. I mean, REALLY good.... HEY EVERYONE! COME AND SEE HOW GOOD HE LOOKS!! :D

[lars573]

With all due respect, have you even PLAYED the game at all? It's a harsh critisism from someone who's not played more than an hour into it. Now, if you played a Fighting Game or a shooter for about an hour, then yes, I'd let it be, but RPGs are way different. That's like reading the first 5 pages of a book, and deciding you don't like it.
Played KH? LOL!! Never. I do judge entertainment products (games, movies, music, and books) by their cover. FF7 taught me that. And I learned well.

I'll be the first to admit--Eternal Darkness is great. It's nice to have that fear element play into your game, which was why the game sold so well. Resident Evil isn't horrible in terms of idea, but I agree, it's not executed as well as it should have been. Kingdom Hearts is brilliant in a lot of ways that is overlooked--people often pass this game by because it's too "Kiddy", so they go to Grand Theft Auto, where the only concievable plot device is rape and kill hookers and drive bys to The Donnas.
The plot device is being a criminal scum bag. Which involves raping and killing hookers and drive buys. KH is what I don't want in a game. Thus making it crap.


The games ARE less dark toned than, say, God of War, admittedly. However, it's not that overly sweet. The kid just wants to go find his friends, and makes new ones along the way. You claim you're a man's man, yet you're too "big" to play this game. Doesn't make sense to me.
Disney sacrine plot. No thanks, no thanks.

And you hate Square Enix? Okay, I'll give you that. Have you ever played Star Ocean? Illusion of Gaia? Vagrant Story? Legend of Mana? Squeenix is a lot more than just a rename of Squaresoft. Try the backlibrary of Enix Games, and some of the lesser known Square ones. The "Chrono" games, especially.
No those are all JRPG's. I HATE JRPG's! I'll never play another one. They are terrible, boring, generic, and stupid. Plus I've sworn an oath never to play another game from Sqaure-enix, that isn't FF1.

[JackBauer]

just because you don't like them doesn't make it crap. hell, I hate Final Fantasy, but I can admit that, at least a few of them, aren't crap. they're just not my thing.

[Phaser]

just because you don't like them doesn't make it crap.

That's a fundamental truth that both opionionazis Horrorfar and lars573 have a very poor understanding of. Just like movies, you prefer different games for different reasons. Of course, one might say that I too have played gestapo on this forum many a times, but as far as I recall, my arguments are mostly in defense of good games instead of lambasting them because it doesn't click well with my gaming preferences.

Not everything subscribes to the same standards of excellence. Even though I despise Japanese gaming tastes to no end, many turn-based RPGs are frankly one of the best games I've had the good fortune of experiencing.

[Horrorfan]

That's a fundamental truth that both opionionazis Horrorfar and lars573 have a very poor understanding of. Just like movies, you prefer different games for different reasons..

Hold on...aren't you the guy who said I had the worst taste ever, but stated it as a fact? If you would have said in your opinion, thats different, but as it stands, it makes you a hypocrite. Then you said dtr was ''wrong'' for saying Half life sucks. Yeah, if we have a poor understanding of that ''truth'', then you're the leader of our club.

[Drakon]

With all due respect, Horrorfan, he's partially right. You're calling a game crap because it's not what you like. There's a difference between a horrible game and a game that's not your cup of tea. Personally, I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE driving games, but I can give GT4 a lot of credit for being a great game in it's class, but I just don't like it. That doesn't make it a bad game. On the other hand, you guys are swearing off Japanese RPGs and "Kiddy" titles, regardless of having played them or not [usually not], simply because they're not your kind of games, so you mark them as horrible.

[jaydawg]

Sabertooth isn't an X-villian. He's the arch enemy of an X-character. Not an X-villian. The hellfire club, gods they suck.
Then Why don't you list some x-villains that are clones of Mags and Apoc. Cause I sure as hell cant think of any.

I mean't the real Parallax not the retcon to appease Hal fans.


The Ultra Humanite doesn't count. Grodd was first.
Even then, there are countless intellegent monkeys in the DCU. Like Detective Chimp. Or even Titano. And no, Ultra Humanite predates Grodd. The Humanite predates Lex Freakin Luthor.

Does Hulk or Abomination?
Yes, the Hulk has actual depth. And the Abomination is up there interms of genius. Both are fully realized characters, unlike Grundy.

Dr. Doom couldn't and wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Darkseid.
In a fight? Yeah. In terms of personality, you're kidding yourself.

How many times did they ripoff Green Goblin? Even if you don't count multiple guys in the same suit you have 3 copies of the Green Goblin. Hydroman. Chance. See that doesnt even make sense. GG is a freakin legacy character. While I agree that Norman is the only Goblin thats ever been worth a damn, the point still stands. And Hydroman? Chance? When the hell was the last time anyone referrenced Chance? Hell, I'm betting most Spidey fans dont even know who he is. :o
:down :down :down

[lars573]

With all due respect, Horrorfan, he's partially right. You're calling a game crap because it's not what you like. There's a difference between a horrible game and a game that's not your cup of tea. Personally, I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE driving games, but I can give GT4 a lot of credit for being a great game in it's class, but I just don't like it. That doesn't make it a bad game. On the other hand, you guys are swearing off Japanese RPGs and "Kiddy" titles, regardless of having played them or not [usually not], simply because they're not your kind of games, so you mark them as horrible.
No he's wrong. If you don't like something it's crap, to you. Ones mans crap is another mans treasure. Hence I'll always call JRPG's and FF in particular crap. Same with KH. I'll insult them, derid them, and decry them every chance I get.

[Spidey-Bat]

No he's wrong. If you don't like something it's crap, to you. Ones mans crap is another mans treasure. Hence I'll always call JRPG's and FF in particular crap. Same with KH. I'll insult them, derid them, and decry them every chance I get.

Actually, he's right. Your opinion of it being crap does not make it so.

[TheGrayGhost]

DC has the ****test collection of villains out there. Aside from the Bat rogues, whats left? Lex Luthor, Zoom and a couple other flash rogues. Thats about it. Spidey's rogues and the X-villains alone can then all out in character and personality.

Darkseid owns all.

[Phaser]

Hold on...aren't you the guy who said I had the worst taste ever, but stated it as a fact? If you would have said in your opinion, thats different, but as it stands, it makes you a hypocrite.

If you remember that post of mine, you could easily recall I said it was my opinion that you have one of the worst tastes in movies I have ever see, after you which you "retorted" with all that crap about DRT. Please, do make the effort of wading through your own filth before you jump on my back. It compromises your already non-existent intelligence even further and only forces me to needlessly reiterate things.

Then you said dtr was ''wrong'' for saying Half life sucks. Yeah, if we have a poor understanding of that ''truth'', then you're the leader of our club.

He said it was a "fact" that Half-Life sucks, something he failed to back with neither substantial evidence nor logical statements. Furthermore, he's neck-deep into the very same cesspool of deranged negativity as both you and lars where the very idea of something that doesn't conform to your preferences actually being any good and appreciated by other people is heretical and outrageous.

[lars573]

Actually, he's right. Your opinion of it being crap does not make it so.
No he's wrong. There are few objective arguments with entertainment products. If I think something is crap, then it is. To me and anyone who agrees with me. Anyone who disagrees is wrong, to me. I also don't believe in lying to someone tell them you hate their work, sorry tact.

[Spidey-Bat]

No he's wrong. There are few objective arguments with entertainment products. If I think something is crap, then it is. To me and anyone who agrees with me. Anyone who disagrees is wrong, to me. I also don't believe in lying to someone tell them you hate their work, sorry tact.

Obviously to you it's crap, but you never seem to show it's your opinion in your posts.. I recall reading your rants about Arrested Development in the thread. You came off as a complete jackass, saying AD sucked and anyone who liked it had no taste and sucked as well. In this section, there isn't much of a difference.

[jaydawg]

Yeah, its impossible to hate Arrested Development. To do so means you have no soul.

[lars573]

Obviously to you it's crap, but you never seem to show it's your opinion in your posts.. I recall reading your rants about Arrested Development in the thread. You came off as a complete jackass, saying AD sucked and anyone who liked it had no taste and sucked as well. In this section, there isn't much of a difference.
I always though that it being my opinions was obvious. I guess some people aren't quick on the uptake.

[블라스]

I hate Arrested Develpment, because I hate to laugh :down :mad:

[Horrorfan]

Actually, he's right. Your opinion of it being crap does not make it so.

But it does. If somethings crap to me, its crap. I dont care how many people like friends or will and grace, its still crap. If someone else likes them, then it doesnt matter if I say its crap, because they think its good... so in my eyes, yes, KH is crap. Thats a fact to me, just as its a fact to you that mario and zelda are good games.

[Horrorfan]

I always though that it being my opinions was obvious. I guess some people aren't quick on the uptake.

Yeah I never got how some people don't get that about message boards.

But however, hating AD is just wrong on so many levels.


Gammy, by the way, watch Dead Like me. Its up there with AD as one of the best and underrated shows of all time :up:

[Spidey-Bat]

I always though that it being my opinions was obvious. I guess some people aren't quick on the uptake.
I knew it was opinion, but you always made it seem your opinion was better.

[블라스]

I tried to watch it like 2 times and found it so boring :(

[Horrorfan]

I always assumed it was more tongue in cheek, maybe because thats my type of humour too...

I dont think my opinion is better than most, but sometimes I cant help but think it (for example, people who lapped up friends and will and grace and friends while AD and DLM went 3 and 2 seasons respectivly.....that does make my blood boil).

[Horrorfan]

I tried to watch it like 2 times and found it so boring :(

cant.....stop.....flood........of.......tears.... :( :( :(


tell me you like scrubs at least? f uturama? Kurt Angle? :(

[블라스]

cant.....stop.....flood........of.......tears.... :( :( :(


tell me you like scrubs at least? f uturama? Kurt Angle? :(

Scrubs = Awesome.

Futurama: Just thinking of Jurassic Bark makes me CRY, best episode ever :up:

Kurt Angle: He's....ok I guess. There's no beating Rey Mysterio :up:
Even when he loses, he somehow wins :up:

[Horrorfan]

Scrubs = Awesome.

Futurama: Just thinking of Jurassic Bark makes me CRY, best episode ever :up:

Kurt Angle: He's....ok I guess. There's no beating Rey Mysterio :up:
Even when he loses, he somehow wins :up:


I dunno if its because im not a big dog person, but i didnt find that episode too moving....the most moving episodes for me are luck of the fryrish and leelas homeworld. I love those episodes. I love the whole series but i like those as some of the best (and the superhero episode is AWESOME).

I LOVE scrubs, even though jd turned into a major jerk (what he did to shaun and elliot was pretty ****ty :( ).


Rey Mistero has kinda sucked as champion :( but Kurt Angle is the greatest. too bad hes had to take a lot of time off :(

[Sabretooth]

Rey needs people to interfere to help him win.:( The best Mexican wrestler will always be Eddie Guerrero :up:

[Horrorfan]

Rey needs people to interfere to help him win.:( The best Mexican wrestler will always be Eddie Guerrero :up:

Talk about a guy who went too soon. the fact he turned his life around so greatly will always make him respected to me. He was a kick ass wrestler too, but he made the change so many people couldnt.


I blame wwe's booking more than rey, but thats a whole nother story...

[Drakon]

No he's wrong. If you don't like something it's crap, to you. Ones mans crap is another mans treasure. Hence I'll always call JRPG's and FF in particular crap. Same with KH. I'll insult them, derid them, and decry them every chance I get.

Then care to explain to me why Batman Begins was crap? I hate Katie Holmes, and she's in the movie, so it's crap?

[Horrorfan]

Then care to explain to me why Batman Begins was crap? I hate Katie Holmes, and she's in the movie, so it's crap?

Not crap, but VASTLY overrated.

[Phaser]

...VASTLY overrated.

Most overused phrase in the history of the internet. :down:

[Drakon]

Not crap, but VASTLY overrated.

No. Katie Holmes is crap, therefore, anything she's got anything to do with is Crap.

[lars573]

Then care to explain to me why Batman Begins was crap? I hate Katie Holmes, and she's in the movie, so it's crap?
I have over the years cultivated the ability to ignore parts of movies that bug me that would prevent me form enjoying an otherwise good movie. If there are only 1 or 2 things it works out fine. Anymore and the movie becomes crap. So if Katie Holmes is all you hate in Batman Begins. You ignore Katie Holmes's scenes (she's in what a 1/4 of the movie?) then you can enjoy the movie as a whole.


I tried to watch it like 2 times and found it so boring :(
The show, while good, was extremely one note. If it wasn't dealing with George's family, or her dealing with being dead it fell flat often as not. Now there were some great episodes (most featuring Mason, who was the best character on that show), like where Mason has to reap one of his musical idols. Or where he reaps some old lady who used to be a singer and worked with guys his dad loved. Rubes origin is great too. Or where Mason kills a guy without a note and he turn into a graveling.

[Horrorfan]

The show, while good, was extremely one note. If it wasn't dealing with George's family, or her dealing with being dead it fell flat often as not. Now there were some great episodes (most featuring Mason, who was the best character on that show), like where Mason has to reap one of his musical idols. Or where he reaps some old lady who used to be a singer and worked with guys his dad loved. Rubes origin is great too. Or where Mason kills a guy without a note and he turn into a graveling.


See. how can you say it was one note then? You also forgot the final episode, every episode that was Rube centric, the one where Mason saw the final words of Daisy, the episode where the gay couple die, the moving pilot....it was just a great show. and it would focus mainly on George and her family because it was more her show (but all of rubes stuff was great, and the deaths were always funny and creative). and it only went two seasons so it sadly didnt get as much time to develop.

Phaser, the phrase may be overused, but thats because theres a lot of overrated stuff out there.

[Drakon]

I have over the years cultivated the ability to ignore parts of movies that bug me that would prevent me form enjoying an otherwise good movie. If there are only 1 or 2 things it works out fine. Anymore and the movie becomes crap. So if Katie Holmes is all you hate in Batman Begins. You ignore Katie Holmes's scenes (she's in what a 1/4 of the movie?) then you can enjoy the movie as a whole.

Then why can't you do that with Kingdom Hearts or any of the Square Games?

[Horrorfan]

Then why can't you do that with Kingdom Hearts or any of the Square Games?

Because everything about them looks crap?

[lars573]

Then why can't you do that with Kingdom Hearts or any of the Square Games?
Cause I judge different formats by different gauges. And I'm much less forgiving of s**t I don't like in a game (TV as well that's why AD=crap) as I'm going to spend 2 to 3 times more time with it than a movie.

[Speedball]

Because everything about them looks crap?
That's a joke right?
They have some of the most amazing graphics ever.
The final fight with Xemnas where Riku and Sora are deflecting lasers is one of the craziest things i've seen in any game.
Though no game will look like Resident Evil 4.
Seriously calm down man.
I hate sports games, but I'm not all like "SPORTS GAMES SUCK!"

[Horrorfan]

That's a joke right?
They have some of the most amazing graphics ever.
The final fight with Xemnas where Riku and Sora are deflecting lasers is one of the craziest things i've seen in any game.
Though no game will look like Resident Evil 4.
Seriously calm down man.
I hate sports games, but I'm not all like "SPORTS GAMES SUCK!"


No, having final fantasy characters (who are all emo , and come from a sucky game series ) was bad enough, but having disney characters, who make nintendo's idols look like sam fisher, totally killed it in my eyes. I will never, ever play that game.

[Speedball]

No, having final fantasy characters (who are all emo , and come from a sucky game series ) was bad enough, but having disney characters, who make nintendo's idols look like sam fisher, totally killed it in my eyes. I will never, ever play that game.
You don't know what you're missing then.
Did you have no childhood? Cause everyone likes Disney.

[Addendum]

And when you hit puberty, Disney sucks.

The Incredibles was the first Disney movie I've liked since the late 80's - early 90's. The second was Cars.

[Horrorfan]

You don't know what you're missing then.
Did you have no childhood? Cause everyone likes Disney.

Not knocking disney. used to love them as a kid. But I grew up, and certainly no longer have interest enough to buy a game with them in. Thats one step above buying tellytubbies: the game or the hello kitty game.

[Speedball]

Not knocking disney. used to love them as a kid. But I grew up, and certainly no longer have interest enough to buy a game with them in. Thats one step above buying tellytubbies: the game or the hello kitty game.
Whatever, you like what you like.
Let me guess... Horror games?!
Resident Evil 4 is possibly the best game of this generation. Halo 2 is a far distant 3rd, with Shadow of the Colossus in second.

[블라스]

I love classic Disney with all my heart, but I HATED how they tried to make everything very PC, particularly during the 90's :down

[jaydawg]

But Aladdin and Lion King are the best things they've ever created and Hercules and Tarzan were quite good too. How were they PC?

[Speedball]

But Aladdin and Lion King are the best things they've ever created and Hercules and Tarzan were quite good too. How were they PC?
Whats PC?
Tarzan and Emperor's New Groove are two of my favorites.

[블라스]

But Aladdin and Lion King are the best things they've ever created and Hercules and Tarzan were quite good too. How were they PC?

I actually think I'm both right and wrong, because sometimes they are racist and PC at the same time.

Say, Hercules for example...

They just NEED to have the black chicks with a GREAT singing voice, because everyone knows EVERY black person has a beautiful singing voice.

Oh, and Hades saying stuff like "Oy", "Schmuck" and more Yiddish stuff like that, so yeah....THE JEW IS EVIL! :down :(

[Speedball]

I actually think I'm both right and wrong, because sometimes they are racist and PC at the same time.

Say, Hercules for example...

They just NEED to have the black chicks with a GREAT singing voice, because everyone knows EVERY black person has a beautiful singing voice.

Oh, and Hades saying stuff like "Oy", "Schmuck" and more Yiddish stuff like that, so yeah....THE JEW IS EVIL! :down :(


Hercules always bugged me because the legend is all wrong.
Hades is a good guy, It's Hera who is the bad girl.
They said she was the mother, when it was actually Alcmene. Her husband died in war, and Zeus posed as him to have some fun.
But I guess that's too adult for Disney, so they proceed to destroy the legend by completely erasing the 12 labors and his wife and children's murder by his hands.

[블라스]

Hercules always bugged me because the legend is all wrong.
Hades is a good guy, It's Hera who is the bad girl.
They said she was the mother, when it was actually Alcmene. Her husband died in war, and Zeus posed as him to have some fun.
But I guess that's too adult for Disney, so they proceed to destroy the legend by completely erasing the 12 labors and his wife and children's murder by his hands.

Well, you can always expect some kind of changes when it comes to stuff like this, I mean, the original stories weren't exactly kid material....but it's the stuff that I mentioned what bothers me a bit.

Tarzan was EXCELLENT though :up:

[lars573]

Hercules always bugged me because the legend is all wrong.
Hades is a good guy, It's Hera who is the bad girl.
They said she was the mother, when it was actually Alcmene. Her husband died in war, and Zeus posed as him to have some fun.
But I guess that's too adult for Disney, so they proceed to destroy the legend by completely erasing the 12 labors and his wife and children's murder by his hands.
That's one version. Another is that Herc being a "son of Zeus" is more of a spiritual thing than an "I f***ed you mom boy" thing. That his father actually was a mortal, the king of Corinth, and he and his brother were twins. And that his dad called him "a son of Zeus" when he killed two serpents (with his bare hands no less) that tried to eat him and his brother while they were in their crib.

[Sabretooth]

Hades was the best part of Hercules IMO. You rarely see villains like him in Disney films. Cynicial,Sarcastic,somewhat quirky,y'know. He had depth. More interesting than Hercules was in that movie. And I mean,James Woods voiced him!

Nightmare Before Christmas is another good one that makes it into Kingdom Hearts II. Hell,It's been in all of the games...

[Speedball]

I like the one where he is the son of Zeus better.
I've never heard of your version.
Is it Roman or Greek in origin?

[lars573]

I like the one where he is the son of Zeus better.
I've never heard of your version.
Is it Roman or Greek in origin?
It could be a modern intrepretation of some ancient source. The version I spoke of is from "The Greek Myths" by Olivia E. Coolidge. Chapter VII "Great Heroes". Which has 2 parts Theseus and Heracles.

[Speedball]

It could be a modern intrepretation of some ancient source. The version I spoke of is from "The Greek Myths" by Olivia E. Coolidge. Chapter VII "Great Heroes". Which has 2 parts Theseus and Heracles.
It's a modern interpretaion, at least thats what the Amazon description calls it.

[Phaser]

Phaser, the phrase may be overused, but thats because theres a lot of overrated stuff out there.

No, that phrase is overused because people on the internet have a bad habit of calling practically anything and everything "overrated" just for the heck of it without any real basis or justification. It's very much become a cliché of sorts - start a discussion about the appreciation of anything good and it won't be long before some half-wit barges in and calls it "overrated".

[Horrorfan]

No, that phrase is overused because people on the internet have a bad habit of calling practically anything and everything "overrated" just for the heck of it without any real basis or justification. It's very much become a cliché of sorts - start a discussion about the appreciation of anything good and it won't be long before some half-wit barges in and calls it "overrated".

...because they think it's overrated. Whats your confusion about that?


for the record, BB begins :-


it drags terrifically, and has no sense of fun...its up its own ass. I have no problem with dark movies, but this wasn't dark, it just came off as artificial and emotionless

the acting ranges from good ( michael caine, Cillian Murphy) to decent (Bale, Oldman etc) to bad (katie homes).

scarecrow is underused

Gotham seemed like a generic industrial town that could have been anywhere

Basically, the whole movie was, for me, well made but dull and reserved, with uninteresting characters, choppy action scenes and very few moments I can remember with clarity (the crux of a good movie, for me, is moments I remeber well because they imprinted themsleves on my mind).

Im not a huge fan of the batman comic books though. IMO the only good movie (rocket penguines aside) in the series was Batman returns.

[블라스]

...because they think it's overrated. Whats your confusion about that?
for the record, BB begins :-
it drags terrifically, and has no sense of fun...its up its own ass. I have no problem with dark movies, but this wasn't dark, it just came off as artificial and emotionless
the acting ranges from good ( michael caine, Cillian Murphy) to decent (Bale, Oldman etc) to bad (katie homes).
scarecrow is underused
Gotham seemed like a generic industrial town that could have been anywhere
Basically, the whole movie was, for me, well made but dull and reserved, with uninteresting characters, choppy action scenes and very few moments I can remember with clarity (the crux of a good movie, for me, is moments I remeber well because they imprinted themsleves on my mind).
Im not a huge fan of the batman comic books though. IMO the only good movie (rocket penguines aside) in the series was Batman returns.

I don't there there could be a bigger disagreement in the universe than the one I have with you right now :confused:

[Spidey-Bat]

...because they think it's overrated. Whats your confusion about that?
for the record, BB begins :-
it drags terrifically, and has no sense of fun...its up its own ass. I have no problem with dark movies, but this wasn't dark, it just came off as artificial and emotionless
the acting ranges from good ( michael caine, Cillian Murphy) to decent (Bale, Oldman etc) to bad (katie homes).
scarecrow is underused
Gotham seemed like a generic industrial town that could have been anywhere
Basically, the whole movie was, for me, well made but dull and reserved, with uninteresting characters, choppy action scenes and very few moments I can remember with clarity (the crux of a good movie, for me, is moments I remeber well because they imprinted themsleves on my mind).
Im not a huge fan of the batman comic books though. IMO the only good movie (rocket penguines aside) in the series was Batman returns.

I pity you. You don't let yourself like anything that is both good and popular and always have to speak out against it.

The movie doesn't drag, there are some slow points but it has a good pace overall. Batman isn't supposed to be fun, hasn't been since the 60's. The acting is good, Holmes is the worst but what's new? Scarecrow is underused b/c he's the most pathetic A-villain. Anything else he could have done would be utterly campy. Gotham is supposed to be a real city, so it should look like one. Other interpretations give it flavor; Burton made it look like a slum and Schumacher made it this city with 100ft statues everywhere. They were good, but not very realistic. If you liked Batman more, you'd have recognized the memorable moments.

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

I pity you. You don't let yourself like anything that is both good and popular and always have to speak out against it.

The movie doesn't drag, there are some slow points but it has a good pace overall. Batman isn't supposed to be fun, hasn't been since the 60's. The acting is good, Holmes is the worst but what's new? Scarecrow is underused b/c he's the most pathetic A-villain. Anything else he could have done would be utterly campy. Gotham is supposed to be a real city, so it should look like one. Other interpretations give it flavor; Burton made it look like a slum and Schumacher made it this city with 100ft statues everywhere. They were good, but not very realistic. If you liked Batman more, you'd have recognized the memorable moments.



:up: :up: :up:



I don't even really like the Batman comics, but that film is by far the best comic adaptation and IMO, more enjoyable than the comic. Waits for flamers...

[WhatsHisFace]

I agree. "Batman Begins" blows Burton's films (garbage in comparison) out of the water.

Going back and watching them, Burton's films were really bad. I can't believe they were ever considered good.

Schumacher's films are like eighth grade plays. :(

[Spidey-Bat]

I agree. "Batman Begins" blows Burton's films (garbage in comparison) out of the water.

Going back and watching them, Burton's films were really bad. I can't believe they were ever considered good.

Schumacher's films are like eighth grade plays. :(

Burton's films aren't bad if you realize they were based off pre-crisis stuff.

[WhatsHisFace]

Burton's films aren't bad if you realize they were based off pre-crisis stuff.
I'm not entirely sure I know what Pre-Crisis is, but I do know that for movies called "Batman", there was sure a very small amount of "Batman" or "Bruce Wayne" in the story. :(

And with all the wierdness of those movies, watching them after "Batman Begins" was like watching the Adam West series. :(

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm not entirely sure I know what Pre-Crisis is, but I do know that for movies called "Batman", there was sure a very small amount of "Batman" or "Bruce Wayne" in the story. :(

And with all the wierdness of those movies, watching them after "Batman Begins" was like watching the Adam West series. :(

Pre-Crisis is anything before 1986. It refers to the Crisis on Infinite Earths in which DC got rid of all the ****ty Earth 2, Earth 3, and other crap and combined everything into 1 universe. A lot of origins were redone, characters killed and brought back. Crisis pretty much made Batman who is he today, a vigilante who never kills. Batman started out as being violent and then evolved to a campy idiot in the 50's and 60's. Burton made it more the former.

Batman is on screen when he's not in costume. There was enough screen time for him to be developed, but Burton also developed the Joker (who rightfully deserved it).

[WhatsHisFace]

Oh... well I'm a bit lost because I never really followed the comics. In fact, I didn't know there were multiple earths until now, but anyways, I simply know what I like. And I like when my heroes are played straight, not campy.

So while I like X-men 1 and 2, I don't like 3. I liked Daredevil (enough), but not Elektra...

I guess my point of view is that they shouldn't take the easy way out and make it all a big joke. I like when they put care into it like with Spider-man and Batman Begins.

[Phaser]

...because they think it's overrated. Whats your confusion about that?

There is no confusion. My point is that such quips of calling just about anything and everything that is remotely good as "overrated" are mere mindless hiccups that are often nothing more than insignificant banter with little to no valid criticism to back them up with.

for the record, BB begins :-

it drags terrifically, and has no sense of fun...its up its own ass. I have no problem with dark movies, but this wasn't dark, it just came off as artificial and emotionless

"Fun" is an extremely subjective term. Some people have "fun" listening to Mozart in their car while others can't stand it. Some like to watch smart movies that are intellectually stimulating to have a good time rather than watch trendy production mired with mass-appeal cliches like glorified sex and action.

As for your argument about the film "dragging terrifically", Batman Begins has one of the most dense plots I've ever seen in a summer blockbuster - so much happens during the course of 2 hours and 20 minutes, yet it moves at a very brisk pace. If anything, the argument of the film moving too fast is infinitely more accurate than the film "dragging", because "dragging" implies the film having a very thin, loose and little plot that is stretched to fit into the running time while BB does the exact opposite - instead of "dragging" and "stretching", the plot in BB is actually "compressed" to fit under the 2.5 hour mark.

As for the film being "artificial and emotionless", I'm sure many will disagree on that. But then again, you had more fun watching dumb-crap like Fantastic Four, so who am I to talk?

the acting ranges from good ( michael caine, Cillian Murphy) to decent (Bale, Oldman etc) to bad (katie homes).

I sort of agree with this statement, only that everyone in the film gave a good performance except Katie Holmes, who was not actually "bad" per se, but rather lackluster when compared to the more seasoned acting veterans around her.

scarecrow is underused

How is that in any way suitable grounds for criticism? I think it was obvious from the start that the film is about Bruce Wayne and his journey to become Batman and the villains having a moot role to play, especially when there are 3 of them. It's incredibly shallow to pan on a film based on what it's not instead of judging it on what it is.

Gotham seemed like a generic industrial town that could have been anywhere

When Nolan was making the film, he said he wanted Gotham to look like "New York on steroids" and that's exactly what it looked like. Of course, sets like the Narrows, Arkham and the wide shots of the city that pan around Wayne Tower, the monorail etc. nevertheless give Gotham it's own identity. The reason for such a direction was to make Batman stand out in his environment so as to differ the approach taken in the Burton films where Batman felt right at home around the seemingly surreal surroundings.

What most people tend to forget that Gotham is not a town riddled with Gothic architecture, but rather an urban hellhole more reminiscent of the cities in films like Se7en or Blade Runner. In fact, the very first Batman comics, the 70's O'Neil run as well as the Frank Miller entries - DKR and Year One also use a similiar art direction as well.

Basically, the whole movie was, for me, well made but dull and reserved, with uninteresting characters, choppy action scenes and very few moments I can remember with clarity (the crux of a good movie, for me, is moments I remeber well because they imprinted themsleves on my mind).

Again that is a very subjective statement, while the merits of any assertion about something being "overrated" lies on the objectivity of said criticism - something I conclude your review is fairly lacking in.

Im not a huge fan of the batman comic books though. IMO the only good movie (rocket penguines aside) in the series was Batman returns.

Batman Returns was a complete parody, a caricature full of self-contradictions. Even though it's arguably my favorite of the Burton movies, I still can't over the fact that the film is basically a mockery of itself by trying to be exceptionally dark, but then injects buckets full of campy humor and senseless wackiness. Still the film has it's fair share of good moments that are deserving of appreciation.

[WhatsHisFace]

I'd have to say Phaser is thoroughly correct on this one, but he should have been a little more bashy when confronting the "underused scarecrow" complaint.

[Spidey-Bat]

How the hell did we go from Disney movies to Batman Begins?

[WhatsHisFace]

Because Gammy made the first responce? :confused:

[Phaser]

I'd have to say Phaser is thoroughly correct on this one, but he should have been a little more bashy when confronting the "underused scarecrow" complaint.

What can I say? Some people and their delicate sensitivities...;)

I will say that the Scarecrow, regardless of his screentime, was used quite brilliantly in Batman Begins. The fear gas sequences are one of the best parts of the film and the Scarecrow's final getup (a man in a straightjacket wearing a burlap sack) beats the comics straw suit outfit with a 20-ton sledgehammer.

[WhatsHisFace]

What can I say? Some people and their delicate sensitivities...;)

I will say that the Scarecrow, regardless of his screentime, was used quite brilliantly in Batman Begins. The fear gas sequences are one of the best parts of the film and the Scarecrow's final getup (a man in a straightjacket wearing a burlap sack) beats the comics straw suit outfit with a 20-ton sledgehammer.
I thought he was used just enough. Any more and he would have been too forced. I didn't think he was too necessary when we last saw him confronting Katie Holmes, only to be electro-shocked in a moment of female-empowerment, and I don't think he was too overused as to where we'd wonder what he was doing in a scene.

That movie was so well made I both fear and eagerly anticipate for the sequel. They may have set an insurmountable bar for themselves with this one, but thankfully the whole team is coming back. :up:

[Horrorfan]

I would say if you are a fan of Batman or DC, you are probably far more biased towards me towards the film, since I have no love for either. Batman, to me, has always been the only interesting mainstream character dc has, and I had no reason to slate the film, or to love it. It just seems to me the pro-batman crowd think its a much better movie than it actually is (again, Im coming at it from a fan of films, not as a dc or batman fan whatsoever).

I could give a damn about the comics, btw.
I love Batman returns for many reasons (even though, as you did say, it does have too many campy moments):

Michael Keaton is always excellent. I prefered him to bale, since he always seemed to play it cool and not try too hard (Bale seemed to try WAY too hard, especially with the growly voice which I thought was just silly). Keaton was ice cold, which I liked.

The Catwoman/Batman thing is extremely tragic, and had the heart I like to see in movies...hell, I even felt sorry for penguin seeing as his fate was more or less thrust upon him. Thats one thing this missed for me. characters I actually gave a damn about. scarecrow was cool in a creepy way, and alfred was pretty good, but none got to me to any sort of real emotional level.

Gotham in Burtons movies had personality. Nevermind the comics, I KNEW it was gotham from the architecture, and it was like the whole city was alive. Now its just another generic city in another generic superhero movie.

Fantastic four was simply a more fun movie. BB was just tedious. I don't know about you but when I pay to see a movie, I want to be entertained, not having my ass bored off. and the whole Bale/growly voice thing for batman was lame too.


For me, its entirely justice that X3 made more money than BB at the box office. They say it doesn't equal quality, but for me, sometimes its nice to see the public get it right occassionally :up:

[Phaser]

I would say if you are a fan of Batman or DC, you are probably far more biased towards me towards the film, since I have no love for either. Batman, to me, has always been the only interesting mainstream character dc has, and I had no reason to slate the film, or to love it. It just seems to me the pro-batman crowd think its a much better movie than it actually is (again, Im coming at it from a fan of films, not as a dc or batman fan whatsoever).

But then again, one is also likely to bring up the question of your own bias against DC properties. So how exactly does that make your opinion an objective. Come to think of it, your review is very much likely to be even more slanted than the ones you're dismissing.

I could give a damn about the comics, btw.
I love Batman returns for many reasons (even though, as you did say, it does have too many campy moments):

Michael Keaton is always excellent. I prefered him to bale, since he always seemed to play it cool and not try too hard (Bale seemed to try WAY too hard, especially with the growly voice which I thought was just silly). Keaton was ice cold, which I liked.

The Catwoman/Batman thing is extremely tragic, and had the heart I like to see in movies...hell, I even felt sorry for penguin seeing as his fate was more or less thrust upon him. Thats one thing this missed for me. characters I actually gave a damn about. scarecrow was cool in a creepy way, and alfred was pretty good, but none got to me to any sort of real emotional level.

Once again, purely subjective statements. Like I said before, if you want anyone to take your assertion of something being "overrated" any seriously or even have a shred of credibility, then you will have to be a lot more impersonal in your criticism.

Gotham in Burtons movies had personality. Nevermind the comics, I KNEW it was gotham from the architecture, and it was like the whole city was alive. Now its just another generic city in another generic superhero movie.

Gotham in Burton's movies was nothing but art deco in the back of a studio lot. And this fact sticks out like sore thumb even moreso in Batman Returns, where the Gotham feels like more a confined, claustrophobic prison than a city. Besides, if you don't give a damn about the comics, what exactly are you basing your perceptions of Gotham on anyway? How did you "knew it was Gotham from the architecture" when you haven't read the comics and don't have a clue about how Gotham is supposed to be?

Fantastic four was simply a more fun movie. BB was just tedious. I don't know about you but when I pay to see a movie, I want to be entertained, not having my ass bored off. and the whole Bale/growly voice thing for batman was lame too.

I can tear apart Fantastic Four piece by piece as being nothing but a proverbial piece of trash, an abomination of cinema in purely factual terms. The bland cinematography, the terrible performances, the mundane plot, the abhorring one-liners, the cheesy action sequences, the dreadul music...sure, some people enjoy watching such "films" munching popcorn and sipping cola with their brain turned off but for me, the very idea of enduring such a travesty that treats it's audience like complete idiots is downright offensive.

People tend to throw around the term "summer blockbuster" as if they aren't supposed to be anything but mindless, effects-driven bonanzas when in fact, the genre has time and again proven itself capable of delivering smart entertainment the likes of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

For me, its entirely justice that X3 made more money than BB at the box office. They say it doesn't equal quality, but for me, sometimes its nice to see the public get it right occassionally :up:

And The Phantom Menace made more than X3. They say it doesn't equal quality, but according to your logic, it's nice to see the public get it right occassionally (especially when TPM earned almost twice as much green at the BO).

[Horrorfan]

But then again, one is also likely to bring up the question of your own bias against DC properties. So how exactly does that make your opinion an objective. Come to think of it, your review is very much likely to be even more slanted than the ones you're dismissing.

Once again, purely subjective statements. Like I said before, if you want anyone to take your assertion of something being "overrated" any seriously or even have a shred of credibility, then you will have to be a lot more impersonal in your criticism.



Gotham in Burton's movies was nothing but art deco in the back of a studio lot. And this fact sticks out like sore thumb even moreso in Batman Returns, where the Gotham feels like more a confined, claustrophobic prison than a city. Besides, if you don't give a damn about the comics, what exactly are you basing your perceptions of Gotham on anyway? How did you "knew it was Gotham from the architecture" when you haven't read the comics and don't have a clue about how Gotham is supposed to be?



I can tear apart Fantastic Four piece by piece as being nothing but a proverbial piece of trash, an abomination of cinema in purely factual terms. The bland cinematography, the terrible performances, the mundane plot, the abhorring one-liners, the cheesy action sequences, the dreadul music...sure, some people enjoy watching such "films" munching popcorn and sipping cola with their brain turned off but for me, the very idea of enduring such a travesty that treats it's audience like complete idiots is downright offensive.

And The Phantom Menace made more than X3. They say it doesn't equal quality, but according to your logic, it's nice to see the public get it right occassionally (especially when TPM earned almost twice as much green at the BO).


LOL I said the public get it right OCCASSIONALLY when it comes to X3. What that means, as you dont seem to get by bringing up TPM, is that SOMETIMES, CERTAIN movies earn as much as they deserve to. To sum up (in caps so you might get it this time): NOT EVERY FILM THAT EARNS MONEY DESERVES IT, JUST OCASSIONALLY. X3 was one of those occasions.

Yeah DC comics suck. But they have had some good movies (if I was totally biased, would I love Batman Returns and Constantine? I don't think so, mate).

I knew Gotham from the movies. If you saw those giant statues, you KNEW it was Burton's gotham. If you see this gotham, in bb begins, it could be any industrial hellhole from any movie ever. The movie had NO personality.

The thing that you dont seem to get is that ALL film is subjective. Theres pretty much no facts when it comes to film quality. So I can say batman begins is overrated as much as I want to. It's overrated. See? I just did it.

If someone takes my opinion seriously or not, who cares? I speak the truth. People can believe it, or not. I do not care who takes it seriously or not. I say what i want to say, not what I think people want to hear unlike some.

Batman Begins was overrated. Vastly overrated. You can't stop me saying it and I bet it tears you up inside.

[Phaser]

LOL I said the public get it right OCCASSIONALLY when it comes to X3. What that means, as you dont seem to get by bringing up TPM, is that SOMETIMES, CERTAIN movies earn as much as they deserve to. To sum up (in caps so you might get it this time): NOT EVERY FILM THAT EARNS MONEY DESERVES IT, JUST OCASSIONALLY. X3 was one of those occasions.

No, X3 was not one of those occassions. Like The Phantom Menace, it simply earned money based on the name of it's franchise and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual quality of the film. The critical panning it recieved, not to mention it's barely above average user review score (or is it worse?) is proof of that.

Yeah DC comics suck. But they have had some good movies (if I was totally biased, would I love Batman Returns and Constantine? I don't think so, mate).

Still, your self-proclaimed hate for all things DC can easily be attributed to your pathetically weak critique of Batman Begins. One thing I'm greatly amused with is gutless wimps who are blatantly and inherently biased, yet are too damn spineless to admit it.

I knew Gotham from the movies. If you saw those giant statues, you KNEW it was Burton's gotham.

That's EXACTLY what it was Burton's Gotham.

If you see this gotham, in bb begins, it could be any industrial hellhole from any movie ever. The movie had NO personality.

So essentially you're lambasting at the Gotham in Begins for NOT being Burton's Gotham? You do realize that Burton's interpretation of the city is nowhere close to being definitive and that both Burton's and Nolan's films are completely different franchises?

Oh and...how exactly do art decos in the back of a studio lot equal "personality"? That's the kind of things you regularly see in B-movies (only in B89 it was on a slightly larger scale, while in BR, it looked like a B-movie through and through).

The thing that you dont seem to get is that ALL film is subjective. Theres pretty much no facts when it comes to film quality.

Yes there are. The quality of a film can be measured in a number of factual ways - dialogue and screenplay, cinematography, direction, performances, music and so forth.

So I can say batman begins is overrated as much as I want to. It's overrated. See? I just did it.

And the dog can keep barking till the cows come home. Not that his barking has any kind of meaning, so...carry on. :up:

If someone takes my opinion seriously or not, who cares? I speak the truth. People can believe it, or not. I do not care who takes it seriously or not. I say what i want to say, not what I think people want to hear unlike some.

No, my opinion is the truth...

http://www.beckerfilms.com/JackNicholson.gif

...and you can't handle the truth!

And we can keep on playing on such childish tangents OR grow up and stop making juvenile claims like "I speak the truth".

Batman Begins was overrated. Vastly overrated. You can't stop me saying it and I bet it tears you up inside.

Dogs and their barking. Horrorfan and his opinions.

Same thing. Different species.

[Horrorfan]

No, X3 was not one of those occassions. Like The Phantom Menace, it simply earned money based on the name of it's franchise and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual quality of the film. The critical panning it recieved, not to mention it's barely above average user review score (or is it worse?) is proof of that.



Still, your self-proclaimed hate for all things DC can easily be attributed to your pathetically weak critique of Batman Begins. One thing I'm greatly amused with is gutless wimps who are blatantly and inherently biased, yet are too damn spineless to admit it.



That's EXACTLY what it was Burton's Gotham.



So essentially you're lambasting at the Gotham in Begins for NOT being Burton's Gotham? You do realize that Burton's interpretation of the city is nowhere close to being definitive and that both Burton's and Nolan's films are completely different franchises?

Oh and...how exactly do art decos in the back of a studio lot equal "personality"? That's the kind of things you regularly see in B-movies (only in B89 it was on a slightly larger scale, while in BR, it looked like a B-movie through and through).



Yes there are. The quality of a film can be measured in a number of factual ways - dialogue and screenplay, cinematography, direction, performances, music and so forth.


.

X3 was one of those occassions. But then the fact that it owned BB and Superbomb at the box office probably has made some DC fans bitter towards it. But hey, it beat Batman Begins which is awesome in my book. I guess its not so awesome for Batman fans :(

(by the way, almost 60% positive critical reviews and 70% user reviews is pretty above average to me, and certainly not too much of a panning in my eyes).

I am biased towards DC COMICS. It's heroes are boring, it's stories are boring and it's fans, for the most part, are boring. But I can admit something good when I see it. Batman Returns was a fantastic movie, and Constantine was one of my favourite movies of the last few years. I am the first to admit that DC comics are **** in most areas. But when it makes a film worth seeing, I will admit it.


Art style and deco- distinction. Burton's movies are ALL distinguished. Its the mark of an auetur who can put his own personal stamp on a movie, and Burton does it in every frame of every film he has ever done (well almost). Whereas the director of BB has NO style or distinction whatsoever. You can't watch his movies and know you are watching a christopher gans movie (and if you say you can, I outright say you are lying).


One man's good dialogue, music and script is another man's nightmare. There are very few instances in film where you can say something is definitly a good or bad movie (except for say Uwe Boll's film, which are undenyably bad).

[WhatsHisFace]

Superbomb? It's rapidly approaching 250 million worldwide and it's only been out a few weeks.

[Phaser]

X3 was one of those occassions. But then the fact that it owned BB and Superbomb at the box office probably has made some DC fans bitter towards it. But hey, it beat Batman Begins which is awesome in my book. I guess its not so awesome for Batman fans :(

Box-office numbers mean **** to me. Most of the greatest films ever made didn't even cross the 50 million mark in box-office reciepts so your argument is pointless.

(by the way, almost 60% positive critical reviews and 70% user reviews is pretty above average to me, and certainly not too much of a panning in my eyes).

Comparitively it is, especially when Batman Begins gets 83% from critics and a whooping 94% from users. Not to mention it's score of 8.4 leaving it sitting comfortably as 81st best movie ever made in IMDB's Top 250 list. Wow, that is what one would call "Ownage x 3". :D:up:

Of course, you would decry it all as being "overrated" so your meaningless whining is expected.

I am biased towards DC COMICS. It's heroes are boring, it's stories are boring and it's fans, for the most part, are boring. But I can admit something good when I see it. Batman Returns was a fantastic movie, and Constantine was one of my favourite movies of the last few years. I am the first to admit that DC comics are **** in most areas. But when it makes a film worth seeing, I will admit it.

Batman Returns, like I said, was nothing but a parody of itself, contradicting and mocking it's own material by being too dark and too absurd at the same time. Nothing you say is going to change that fact (see, there are factual ways of judging movies)

Art style and deco- distinction. Burton's movies are ALL distinguished. Its the mark of an auetur who can put his own personal stamp on a movie, and Burton does it in every frame of every film he has ever done (well almost).Whereas the director of BB has NO style or distinction whatsoever. You can't watch his movies and know you are watching a christopher gans movie (and if you say you can, I outright say you are lying).

Uhh, so? Steven Spielberg doesn't have a distinct style of his own either, considering he's made so many different types of films. Neither does Ridley Scott. A "distinct style" does not make a great director. A great director is defined by the quality of his films and Christopher Nolan is one of the most talented ones working in Hollywood today. The fact that in just five films now he has worked with Al Pacino, Robin Williams, Liam Neeseon, Christian Bale, David Bowie, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, Hugh Jackman, Guy Pearce, Carrie Anne-Moss and Joe Pantoliano speaks volumes about the fact that he is a director talented actors love working with. Not to mention Memento is regarded as one of the most inventive thrillers ever made and as the definitive film in the neo-noir genre (a genre that Memento invented by the way).

One man's good dialogue, music and script is another man's nightmare. There are very few instances in film where you can say something is definitly a good or bad movie (except for say Uwe Boll's film, which are undenyably bad).

Actually, I can bring up at least 20 different movies (and a LOT more if I actually put my mind to it) where there is pretty much unanimous agreement that a certain movie is either good or bad.

[Spidey-Bat]

X3 was one of those occassions. But then the fact that it owned BB and Superbomb at the box office probably has made some DC fans bitter towards it. But hey, it beat Batman Begins which is awesome in my book. I guess its not so awesome for Batman fans :(
It's not awesome for anyone who likes quality movies. X3 beating Begins isn't hard. X3 is following 2 successful comic book movies. Begins didn't have the ensemble cast with popular actors (Freeman, Neeson, and Caine are good, but they don't have the star-power like Berry or Jackman). Plus, Begins was the first Batman movie in 8 years and didn't have a big marketing force behind it like X3 did.

[Sabretooth]

Not to mention kids were more interested in X3 than the much,much darker BB. And kids are the biggest draw to these types of movies.:o

[Spidey-Bat]

Yep. Kids are stupid:o

[Addendum]

Morgan Freeman is an excellent actor. Same with Michael Caine and Liam Neeson.

Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman may be popular, but neither are nowhere close to the quality of those 3.

I will always take quality over popularity every single day

[Addendum]

edit: damned double post due to hype lag

[Spidey-Bat]

Morgan Freeman is an excellent actor. Same with Michael Caine and Liam Neeson.

Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman may be popular, but neither are nowhere close to the quality of those 3.

I will always take quality over popularity every single day

I said star power, not acting ability. There's no question that Jackman and Berry are more popular amongst the general public than Freeman, Caine, and Neeson.

[Addendum]

**** star power. It means nothing. I focus on the acting ability, not how many damned magazine covers they get

[Spidey-Bat]

**** star power. It means nothing. I focus on the acting ability, not how many damned magazine covers they get

I know it sucks, but it helps bring in money which is why X3 made so much. Read what my posts, goddammit.

[Addendum]

Money doesn't equate quality

[Spidey-Bat]

Money doesn't equate quality

Honestly, have you even read anything I've posted?

[Phaser]

Money doesn't equate quality

Tell that to Horrorfan, who thinks X3 made that much money because it's oh-so-good. :down:

[Addendum]

Honestly, have you even read anything I've posted?
Yes, and I don't consider "star power" as a major factor in what constitutes quality acting or quality films.

The general public in the US may, but **** them.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yes, and I don't consider "star power" as a major factor in what constitutes quality acting or quality films.

The general public in the US may, but **** them.

No. If you did, you'd know why I brought up star power. Star Power=more $ at the B.O.

[Horrorfan]

Tell that to Horrorfan, who thinks X3 made that much money because it's oh-so-good. :down:

Oh I am just glad X3 beat out batman begins :)

I do think it deserved the money, but its nice to see Batman get pwned ''X 3'', as you put it ;)

Wow Phaser, even with that much critical support, it STILL couldn't best X3 at the BO. That's pretty humiliating for old bats if you ask me.

Plus, if you can say that's why X3 made money, I will counter with not only was Batman the fifth Batman movie, direct sequel or no, but it had Christian Bale, Liam Neeson, Michael Cane, Morgan Freeman, and other big names in the cast, so thats why it made as much as it did.Hell Fantastic Four made nearly as much with no big box office stars and as the first movie in a series.

Hey, WHF, I like you and all, but even you have to admit Superman has been a MASSIVE dissapointment in terms of box office (especially as its budget is rumoured, all in all, to have cost well more than $400 million with all the restarts and what not). $250 mill worldwide so far for a film that big is a huge disappointment.

You know what's a FACT phaser?

X3 made more money than Batman Begins.

Now that, my friend, is a true fact :)

[블라스]

I'm sorry, but how much money a movie makes means nothing other than what kind of PR guys they have or how many times the general audience sees the movie. And God knows they are capable of flocking the theaters to see crap. Actual turds on film.

Some of the greatest movies ever have been box office flops or disappointments :down

[Horrorfan]

I'm sorry, but how much money a movie makes means nothing other than what kind of PR guys they have or how many times the general audience sees the movie. And God knows they are capable of flocking the theaters to see crap. Actual turds on film.

Some of the greatest movies ever have been box office flops or disappointments :down


So really, it tracks the level of interest in a movie and how many people will pay to see it in theatres.

For me, it's totally justice X3 made more money than BB and SR. The critics wanted to hate it from the moment singer lefted, and would have hated it whatever unless singer came back to it. So I am glad it made more because it shows that critics opinions mean pretty much jack ****.

[Addendum]

The trailer failed to get me to buy a ticket

[블라스]

So really, it tracks the level of interest in a movie and how many people will pay to see it in theatres.

For me, it's totally justice X3 made more money than BB and SR. The critics wanted to hate it from the moment singer lefted, and would have hated it whatever unless singer came back to it. So I am glad it made more because it shows that critics opinions mean pretty much jack ****.

I still think you're super :( :up:

[Horrorfan]

I still think you're super :( :up:

Gammy, you'll always be super, man :supes: :up:

[Phaser]

Oh I am just glad X3 beat out batman begins :)

Giddy with glee like a little girl...

I do think it deserved the money, but its nice to see Batman get pwned ''X 3'', as you put it ;)

Batman gets a great film with decent box office reciepts, while X-Men get a degraded, ****ty sequel that wasted and pissed on one of the greatest comic book storylines ever written and made a lot of money. Anyone with half a brain can figure out who got the better deal - and it sure as hell ain't X-men.

Oh and let's not forget, every major box-office review site lists BB's BO run as the most impressive out of all the summer tentpoles with the greatest multipliers and very low weekend drops. The fact that it made it's way to well above 200 million from such a mere, modest and humble start of 15 million is proof of that.

Wow Phaser, even with that much critical support, it STILL couldn't best X3 at the BO. That's pretty humiliating for old bats if you ask me.

Critical support has rarely worked wonders for a film at the BO. Please, educate yourself before making ignorant statements.

And just so you know, almost 90% of the greatest films ever made made less than 100 million during their theatrical run. This shows that the general public doesn't know a **** about good cinema, but rather only entertaining cinema that is mired with the usual mass-appeal ingredients of cliches like sexuality and mindless action. :down:

Plus, if you can say that's why X3 made money, I will counter with not only was Batman the fifth Batman movie, direct sequel or no, but it had Christian Bale, Liam Neeson, Michael Cane, Morgan Freeman, and other big names in the cast, so thats why it made as much as it did.Hell Fantastic Four made nearly as much with no big box office stars and as the first movie in a series.

The BB cast had actors that weren't superstars. Sure, they are respected actors, but they don't exactly put fill up seats in theatres. In fact, Bale was pretty much an actor with only a cult following at most. Liam Neeson, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman are nearing the end of their careers. If the public doesn't give a damn about a big a name as Harrison Ford right now, then they sure as hell won't give a damn about older geezers.

You know what's a FACT phaser?

X3 made more money than Batman Begins.

Now that, my friend, is a true fact :)

You know what matters, Horrorfan?

Batman Begins is a much better film than X3.

Now that, my friend, is what ultimately matters. :)

If you are so pathetically shallow as to be content with a mediocre film simply because it made more money, then by all means help yourself.

[Horrorfan]

Giddy with glee like a little girl...



Batman gets a great film with decent box office reciepts, while X-Men get a degraded, ****ty sequel that wasted and pissed on one of the greatest comic book storylines ever written and made a lot of money. Anyone with half a brain can figure out who got the better deal - and it sure as hell ain't X-men.

Oh and let's not forget, every major box-office review site lists BB's BO run as the most impressive out of all the summer tentpoles with the greatest multipliers and very low weekend drops. The fact that it made it's way to well above 200 million from such a mere, modest and humble start of 15 million is proof of that.



Critical support has rarely worked wonders for a film at the BO. Please, educate yourself before making ignorant statements.

And just so you know, almost 90% of the greatest films ever made made less than 100 million during their theatrical run. This shows that the general public doesn't know a **** about good cinema, but rather only entertaining cinema that is mired with the usual mass-appeal ingredients of cliches like sexuality and mindless action. :down:



The BB cast had actors that weren't superstars. Sure, they are respected actors, but they don't exactly put fill up seats in theatres. In fact, Bale was pretty much an actor with only a cult following at most. Liam Neeson, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman are nearing the end of their careers. If the public doesn't give a damn about a big a name as Harrison Ford right now, then they sure as hell won't give a damn about older geezers.



You know what matters, Horrorfan?

Batman Begins is a much better film than X3.

Now that, my friend, is what ultimately matters. :)

If you are so pathetically shallow as to be content with a mediocre film simply because it made more money, then by all means help yourself.


Phaser, what made more money? Batman Begins, or X3? If you can, awnser that question with no injunction or critical comment. I doubt your ego would allow it, but I will ask you to anyway.


You call me shallow, I say you are a puppet. Everything you love just hAS to be adored by the critics. It's almost like you let them decide for you. I don't think I have ever seen you stand up for a film or game that you might have liked but was critically derided. You are the biggest example of elitist I can think of. You might think that's a good thing, but I think it makes you a cliche (right down to the ''unfunny'' and ''no personality as far as we can tell'' things).

You're like a critical robot. You seem to decide if a movie is good or not based on the reviews, and what other people tell you is good, not because you actually like it.

See, I can see Gammy and WHF liking it. They are witty and funny guys, but not everything they love is the critics latest darling. But you? You are unfunny, about as sharp as a rubber band and everything you like is loved by the critics. You seem like a lemming, for all intents and purposes. It wouldn't even be so bad if you had a shred of personality or wit to add to your posts. I disagree with Lars but it can be enjoyable because he can be funny and entertaining. You? In all my years on messageboards, you have to be the single dullest person I have ever known. I don't mean that as an insult, or to be mean, it's a fact.

I don't mean any of this to be taken too personally, but it's just what I have seen from you so far. I'm not saying it to try and argue or get a rise out of you, but you just seem so cookie cutter in your opinion of movies, so predctible, its just a bit boring. Thats not totally fair since I dont know everything you like, but its just what I have seen of you so far.

I think you need to get your nose out of the critics ass, wipe off the brown and THINK for yourself and form your own opinions. I doubt you will ever do that, but as long as you are the puppet of the critics, you will not truly be yourself. You are letting others think for you. I also think it's shallow and lame for someone to measure depth and intelligence by the type of movies one likes, but to me, thats just insecurity on the person's own part, who needs validation for the movies you like. Me? I need no validation for anything I like.

I love X3 as a movie. But I am also glad it made more than Batman Begins, if only to piss off people like you. You deal in facts? Well, it IS a fact that X3 outgrossed Batman Begins. I love that it bothers you so much. If X3 hadn't made as much, I would still love the movie, but knowing it upsets you is the icing on a very sweet cake (and I do know it bothers you ;) )

[Extromaniac]

Phaser, what made more money? Batman Begins, or X3? If you can, awnser that question with no injunction or critical comment. I doubt your ego would allow it, but I will ask you to anyway.


You call me shallow, I say you are a puppet. Everything you love just hAS to be adored by the critics. It's almost like you let them decide for you. I don't think I have ever seen you stand up for a film or game that you might have liked but was critically derided. You are the biggest example of elitist I can think of. You might think that's a good thing, but I think it makes you a cliche (right down to the ''unfunny'' and ''no personality as far as we can tell'' things).

You're like a critical robot. You seem to decide if a movie is good or not based on the reviews, and what other people tell you is good, not because you actually like it.

See, I can see Gammy and WHF liking it. They are witty and funny guys, but not everything they love is the critics latest darling. But you? You are unfunny, about as sharp as a rubber band and everything you like is loved by the critics. You seem like a lemming, for all intents and purposes. It wouldn't even be so bad if you had a shred of personality or wit to add to your posts. I disagree with Lars but it can be enjoyable because he can be funny and entertaining. You? In all my years on messageboards, you have to be the single dullest person I have ever known. I don't mean that as an insult, or to be mean, it's a fact.

I think you need to get your nose out of the critics ass, wipe off the brown and THINK for yourself and form your own opinions. I doubt you will ever do that, but as long as you are the puppet of the critics, you will not truly be yourself. You are letting others think for you. I also think it's shallow and lame for someone to measure depth and intelligence by the type of movies one likes, but to me, thats just insecurity on the person's own part, who needs validation for the movies you like. Me? I need no validation for anything I like.

I love X3 as a movie. But I am also glad it made more than Batman Begins, if only to piss off people like you. You deal in facts? Well, it IS a fact that X3 outgrossed Batman Begins. I love that it bothers you so much. If X3 hadn't made as much, I would still love the movie, but knowing it upsets you is the icing on a very sweet cake (and I do know it bothers you ;) )

If one movie outgrosses another, it doesn't mean that movie is BETTER, per se. If the movie is pretty cruddy compared to expectations (like X3 was) then it usually means that the fans are more gullible or it's format appeals to a larger fan base : / If you went by that logic, almost every kiddie movie would be better than every superhero movie : /

[Horrorfan]

If one movie outgrosses another, it doesn't mean that movie is BETTER, per se. If the movie is pretty cruddy compared to expectations (like X3 was) then it usually means that the fans are more gullible or it's format appeals to a larger fan base : / If you went by that logic, almost every kiddie movie would be better than every superhero movie : /

I don't know how much clearer I can put this.....


I would love x3 no matter how much it made. I htought it was easily the best of the trilogy. more character, more heart and more intense. You could tell brett loves the comics and isn't just some hired hand who reads a couple of back issues and thinks ''job done''.

but it is VERY satisying to me that it made so much, if only to show that the public care more about x men than batman or superman or whatever dc is trying to half ass these days.


I am glad because it turned out a great movie, and the fact it made so much is just a very sweet bonus.

are we clear yet?

[Extromaniac]

I don't know how much clearer I can put this.....


I would love x3 no matter how much it made. I htought it was easily the best of the trilogy. more character, more heart and more intense. You could tell brett loves the comics and isn't just some hired hand who reads a couple of back issues and thinks ''job done''. Actually, you could tell that Rattner really didn't ever read the comics, or really put much thought into it for the ones who did. The sentinel was a joke, he totally ruined both the cure AND the Phoenix storyline, he castrated Wolvie and made the character another Cyke. : / He also killed off a handful of main characters for the hell of it. If he read the comics and actually was a fan, he wouldn't have done so. That's what you call pandering to Hollywood, not the fans. Apparently, to Rattner, you can mutilate whatever you want, if it's in the name of Hollywood glamour.

but it is VERY satisying to me that it made so much, if only to show that the public care more about x men than batman or superman or whatever dc is trying to half ass these days. BB was actually a great movie, despite what you say. It was just the right amount of dark and brooding that was the universe of Batman. Just because you love Marvel doesn't mean you have to diss on everything DC. There is a middle-ground you know. Superman wasn't as action-oriented as I would hope, but it was still a great addition to the series anyways. He made the characters more than 2-Dimensional. I can't say the same about Rattner and any other film he's created.


I am glad because it turned out a great movie, and the fact it made so much is just a very sweet bonus.

are we clear yet?

Yes, I think it has been made quite clear. :down

[Horrorfan]

Yes, I think it has been made quite clear. :down

I don't care about the whiney *****es who complain about x3. but it is nice to know that x3 making more upsets them so.

[Extromaniac]

Doesn't upset me at all. I could care less, really.

I just don't agree with your analysis of Rattner's iteration's mythical superiority when compared to Singer. : /

[Addendum]

I liked the first one, thought the second was ok, and won't bother with the third.

The last Marvel movie I liked was Hulk

[Horrorfan]

Doesn't upset me at all. I could care less, really.

I just don't agree with your analysis of Rattner's iteration mythical superiority when compared to Singer. : /

But I don't care what you think, it makes no difference to me....so it was kinda pointless bringing it up.

[Extromaniac]

I suppose I can say the same to you.

[Horrorfan]

I suppose I can say the same to you.

so if you dont care about what i say and vice versa, what was the point of posting?

[Extromaniac]

so if you dont care about what i say and vice versa, what was the point of posting?

Because when there's a point to be contested, I can't say silent.

I must pose the same question to you, as well.

[Horrorfan]

Because when there's a point to be contested, I can't say silent.

I must pose the same question to you, as well.


I didn't ask some noob to come in and get involved in something when I

(a) could not give a **** bout said noob's *****ing

and

(b) was not even speaking to you.

I was talking to phaser, noob. Jog on.

[Phaser]

Phaser, what made more money? Batman Begins, or X3? If you can, awnser that question with no injunction or critical comment. I doubt your ego would allow it, but I will ask you to anyway.

X3 made more money. I have no problem admitting that. Because, frankly speaking, box-office reciepts have NEVER been an appropriate measure of a film's quality - they only show just how popular or mass-appeal a film has. I wholeheartedly acknowledge that X3 clicked with summer audiences more than Batman Begins did. Why? It gave them what they were asking for - mindless spectacle with a butchered plot they can enjoy with their brains turned off.

You call me shallow, I say you are a puppet. Everything you love just hAS to be adored by the critics. It's almost like you let them decide for you. I don't think I have ever seen you stand up for a film or game that you might have liked but was critically derided. You are the biggest example of elitist I can think of. You might think that's a good thing, but I think it makes you a cliche (right down to the ''unfunny'' and ''no personality as far as we can tell'' things).

Please, pull your head out of wherever it's stuck because it's seriously hampering your ability to comprehened my words. I used BB's greater critical acclaim as only one of the many points to argue the superiority of BB as a film. Never did I claim a "critics' seal of approval" as a foremost requirement for a film to be good. And secondly, perhaps you failed to notice that I mentioned RT's User Review Score of 94% and IMDB's rating of 8.4 which gives BB 81st position in IMDB's Top 250 Films of All-Time, which are voted by users and NOT critics.

That alone shows that I don't put stock in critics' opinion alone as you so inanely claim.

You're like a critical robot. You seem to decide if a movie is good or not based on the reviews, and what other people tell you is good, not because you actually like it.

^Nothing but asinine assumptions. I am actually one of the most vocal and outspoken defender of my opinion for liking BB on these boards, and rarely do I do it by bringing up the critics. And if you manage to take a look at your own posts that I've replied to in this very thread, you'll notice that I brought up critics' opinion only once for X3 and once for BB, and that too along with their user-review scores. Why exactly did I bring them up? Because the general consensus amongst both critics AND movie-goers is that BB is not overrated like you so inanely claim. Otherwise, the film would only have gotten a high score from only ONE of the two camps.

See, I can see Gammy and WHF liking it. They are witty and funny guys, but not everything they love is the critics latest darling. But you? You are unfunny, about as sharp as a rubber band and everything you like is loved by the critics. You seem like a lemming, for all intents and purposes. It wouldn't even be so bad if you had a shred of personality or wit to add to your posts. I disagree with Lars but it can be enjoyable because he can be funny and entertaining. You? In all my years on messageboards, you have to be the single dullest person I have ever known. I don't mean that as an insult, or to be mean, it's a fact.

I'm not here to entertain you. I am here to speak my mind on whatever topic of the thread I am posting in. Forgive me for not giving a **** that you cry yourself to sleep after reading my posts that simply weren't "fun" enough for you. Boo-freakin-hoo.

I don't mean any of this to be taken too personally, but it's just what I have seen from you so far. I'm not saying it to try and argue or get a rise out of you, but you just seem so cookie cutter in your opinion of movies, so predctible, its just a bit boring. Thats not totally fair since I dont know everything you like, but its just what I have seen of you so far.

So you actually admit the fact that you know very little about me despite making a lot of judgemental comments in this thread (which practically renders all that you said about me quite meaningless)? Wow, you must be too big an illiterate fool to understand the very concept of self-contradiction.

I think you need to get your nose out of the critics ass, wipe off the brown and THINK for yourself and form your own opinions. I doubt you will ever do that, but as long as you are the puppet of the critics, you will not truly be yourself. You are letting others think for you. I also think it's shallow and lame for someone to measure depth and intelligence by the type of movies one likes, but to me, thats just insecurity on the person's own part, who needs validation for the movies you like. Me? I need no validation for anything I like.

Again, please stop with these jackass assumptions. Critics have panned on a fair number of films that I liked, such as The Matrix Reloaded and Passion of the Christ, while they have also praised films that I dislike such as Star Wars Episode III and Brokeback Mountain. That's just a bare few films off the top of my mind and I'm sure there are MANY more (because I don't make it a point to memorize the review scores of every film I see, those 4 are just what stick out the most in my memory at the moment).

I love X3 as a movie. But I am also glad it made more than Batman Begins, if only to piss off people like you. You deal in facts? Well, it IS a fact that X3 outgrossed Batman Begins. I love that it bothers you so much. If X3 hadn't made as much, I would still love the movie, but knowing it upsets you is the icing on a very sweet cake (and I do know it bothers you ;) )

What bothers is me idiots and their brainless farts about X3 making as much money as it did because it was that good a film. But then again, I can only give a damn about the ramblings of such thickheads for so long. Then it becomes a simple matter of dogs and their barking.

[Extromaniac]

I didn't ask some noob to come in and get involved in something when I

(a) could not give a **** bout said noob's *****ing

and

(b) was not even speaking to you.

I was talking to phaser, noob. Jog on.

Oh, noob. That's real original. :rolleyes:

How long did it take you to think up that doosy of an insult? I am now humbled by your posting greatness. Be merciful, oh Master.

For someone who thinks so highly of his own ego and intelligence, you sure can't come up with anything to reflect such claims. So what? I don't have many posts at this forum. I probably have thousands of more posts at other forums than you do.

Damn, your mental stock is dropping faster than your balls.

[Horrorfan]

Phaser, you seem boring and deathly dull. That's not MY fault you show not only any passion, but no personality, wit or anything else that would make up for the fact you seem like a hollow void of a person. You could be the most fun loving, un boring person in the universe offline, but all I have seen you is the pompus, up his own ass **** who's biggest and only personality trait seems to be that he's a prick. You can't blame me for that. This is from only what I know of you. What else can I judge you on?

What you said was fairly idiotic as well. If most people didn'tlike BB, it would NOT be overrated. So you arguing that people like it so it can't be overrated is one of the strangest, most illogical things I have ever heard. I think you need to learn what overrated actually means.

[Horrorfan]

Oh, noob. That's real original. :rolleyes:

How long did it take you to think up that doosy of an insult? I am now humbled by your posting greatness. Be merciful, oh Master.

For someone who thinks so highly of his own ego and intelligence, you sure can't come up with anything to reflect such claims. So what? I don't have many posts at this forum. I probably have thousands of more posts at other forums than you do.

Damn, your mental stock is dropping faster than your balls.
hey once my balls do drop, does that mean you will stop coming on to me?

[Extromaniac]

hey once my balls do drop, does that mean you will stop coming on to me?

Nice one, if you're still stuck in the sixth grade. :o

Whatever, I have neither the time nor the energy to argue with someone that's as idiotic as yourself. I don't know, maybe you'll prove me wrong.

[Horrorfan]

Nice one, if you're still stuck in the sixth grade. :o

Whatever, I have neither the time nor the energy to argue with someone that's as idiotic as yourself. I don't know, maybe you'll prove me wrong.

I am stuck in the sixth grade :(

It's not fun.

[Phaser]

Phaser, you seem boring and deathly dull. That's not MY fault you show not only any passion, but no personality, wit or anything else that would make up for the fact you seem like a hollow void of a person. You could be the most fun loving, un boring person in the universe offline, but all I have seen you is the pompus, up his own ass **** who's biggest and only personality trait seems to be that he's a prick. You can't blame me for that. This is from only what I know of you. What else can I judge you on?

Wow, talk about incessant whining. You really hate me don't you? And here you were making absurd claims that what your words bother me? Let's not even consider the fact that since the last two posts you've barely spoken anything relevant about the argument at hand and instead, detoured off into a completely pointless (not to mention downright amusing) rant regarding the oceans of tears you've shed after reading my every line. Let's not even consider the fact that your personal character is far too worthless to be worth any more than a mere few seconds of my time, although I do have an idea now how much a pansy, sobbing little b***h you really are.

Oooh, look at those ears go red, the eyes burning with fury, the cheeks going "plump"...I can almost picture the little crybaby yelling obscenities at his computer screen.

Ah yes, I love being a prick to those who can't handle it. ;) :up:

What you said was fairly idiotic as well. If most people didn'tlike BB, it would NOT be overrated. So you arguing that people like it so it can't be overrated is one of the strangest, most illogical things I have ever heard. I think you need to learn what overrated actually means.

Read my post dumbass. I said something about people giving BB "high scores", not disliking it. Uneducated idiot.

[Axid]

Extromaniac has to be a returning poster :o

[Horrorfan]

Wow, talk about incessant whining. You really hate me don't you? And here you were making absurd claims that what your words bother me? Let's not even consider the fact that since the last two posts you've barely spoken anything relevant about the argument at hand and instead, detoured off into a completely pointless (not to mention downright amusing) rant regarding the oceans of tears you've shed after reading my every line. Let's not even consider the fact that your personal character is far too worthless to be worth any more than a mere few seconds of my time, although I do have an idea now how much a pansy, sobbing little b***h you really are.

Oooh, look at those ears go red, the eyes burning with fury, the cheeks going "plump"...I can almost picture the little crybaby yelling obscenities at his computer screen.

Ah yes, I love being a prick to those who can't handle it. ;) :up:



Read my post dumbass. I said something about people giving BB "high scores", not disliking it. Uneducated idiot.


What retarded country are you in where you don't understand what overrated means? YOU said that it isn't overrated, because people like it. In the real world-verse, which you apparently don't live in, something is overrated WHEN it's liked by many when it's really not as good as they say it is. In fact, if no one liked it, it fails the entire definition of overrated. I used to credit you with some intligence before that statement, which is the dumbest I had read for some time.

LOL I don't hate you Phaser....its just it seems your only trait is being a massive scrotum sucker. You have no humour, no personality, nothing....if you were any more two dimensional, you'd be a street fighter character.

I don't hate you, you don't make me mad....it's just very tragic for you that your ONLY characteristic seems to be that you are a prick (I have a good feeling Im not the only one who has said this to you before as well). It's sad, really....there's nothing else to you :(

[WhatsHisFace]

PHASER and HORRORFAN.

I'm freaking serious here.

You two WILL act like friends.

You two WILL stop bickering.

You two WILL get along henceforth.

If I am not understood, I will beat your candy asses until the message gets through. You guys are way too cool to be degraded into ceaseless pissing contests. There is so much more you can do for this "community", and you **** sucking mother ****s have to know that.

[Horrorfan]

PHASER and HORRORFAN.

I'm freaking serious here.

You two WILL act like friends.

You two WILL stop bickering.

You two WILL get along henceforth.

If I am not understood, I will beat your candy asses until the message gets through. You guys are way too cool to be degraded into ceaseless pissing contests. There is so much more you can do for this "community", and you **** sucking mother ****s have to know that.

OK I'll be good :(

I accept a ceasefire. Phaser, I apologise if anything I said offended you.

I was probably a bit too harsh, as I do enjoy some of your posts (ie the ones that arent bashing x3 :p). But I'm cool if you are.

[Extromaniac]

Extromaniac has to be a returning poster :o

Nah, I've just watched alot of the posts and threads here for a few months. That's what happens when you have a sibling that is a part of these boards.