vegata( when he first came to earth) vs superman

[mikestylez]

i wonder who would win. i know vegata has those nergy attacks but its going to take him awhile to wear down superman and superman is not going to stand there while he powers up. is till dont know. who would win drop your toughts.

[Warhammer]

Trust me, you don't want to start random threads. This thread will turn into a bigass thread of straight arguing and *****ing, then it'll get closed.

DBZ people will say Vegeta, and Comic people will say Supes.



...I vote Superman, btw.
He'd crush Vegeta at that stage.

[xwolverine2]

anyone is dbz would kill superman...lol

hercule/mr satan too

[Warhammer]

anyone is dbz would kill superman...lol

hercule/mr satan too

:( .

[Jplaya2023]

Vegeta wins easily, superman has no defense for gallick gun, or Vegeta turns Oozaru and rips his head off.

[Jplaya2023]

anyone is dbz would kill superman...lol

hercule/mr satan too

I do think superman can possibly beat, android 8, tao pai pai, dr gero, and more online of the DB chars, but when Z starts is when Superman becomes outclassed

Maybe if satan learned how to fly and developed his ki he would be a great matchup for superman.

But spopovich and yamu (under babidi control) would beat superman

[SLVRSR4]

I love DBZ but Superman is just more powerful at that time i wouldn't say he could take him till namek:o i posted in a vs. thread that wasn't a big one

[November Rain]

I'm sorry but anyone who can throw a continent into space while in the presence of the only thing that can kill him gets my vote at this time...

at this period in time, supes is quite a bit stronger than vegeta in my eyes. plus his x-ray vision is pretty decent as well. not sure about speed but if its still time travelling fast then, what can you say?

vegeta is outclassed if we use the movie supes.

[Sloth7d]

Vegeta would go Giant Ape form.
This would lead to supes getting seriously pounded, but then he would win by calling upon the JLA to help him.

[Gotenks]

Honestly I think only Goku and buu can beat superman./
At that stage of vegetas life i dont think he can win i say superman

[Super_Child]

Superman Would crush vegeta at that stage in his life. But around the Frieza saga Vegeta [/b]might[b] stand a chance. And later in DBZ when Vegeta goes SSJ he could definetly beat Superman.

[Warhammer]

Vegeta would go Giant Ape form.
This would lead to supes getting seriously pounded, but then he would win by calling upon the JLA to help him.

Supes lasted against Imperiex as well as many planet busters.
Oozaru Vegeta should be nothing.







...and where is the public poll?

[Jplaya2023]

Supes lasted against Imperiex as well as many planet busters.
Oozaru Vegeta should be nothing.







...and where is the public poll?

Imperiex isnt as ruthless and as strong as Oozaru vegeta san

[Leto Atrides]

There is a point where Vegeta surpasses Superman, but this is nowhere near it. If he goes Oozaru it will be much harder for Supes to harm him, but I doubt it will help him offensively.

[mikestylez]

if vegat could find away to pulll of gallick gun it would be over. but i thin kif they went hand to hand it would be a tie. i think superman is about as strong as am elite sayin.

[Gotenks]

Well after I translated that post of yours into english. I came to the conclusion that you know nothing about superman. To think he would be defeated with one blast is crazy!

[Warhammer]

Imperiex isnt as ruthless and as strong as Oozaru vegeta san

It took many of DC's heroes, Darkseid, Brainiac, and the U.S. Military (not that they matter) to hold off Imperiex. I doubt Vegeta (especially at that EARLY stage) could even take on Superman, Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman, let alone alot everyone else. Imperiex is more of a planet buster than Vegeta could ever be at that stage.

[Jplaya2023]

It took many of DC's heroes, Darkseid, Brainiac, and the U.S. Military (not that they matter) to hold off Imperiex. I doubt Vegeta (especially at that EARLY stage) could even take on Superman, Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman, let alone alot everyone else. Imperiex is more of a planet buster than Vegeta could ever be at that stage.

None of those fighters are in the class of vegeta who can increase his power X 10 in an instant

[Jplaya2023]

Well after I translated that post of yours into english. I came to the conclusion that you know nothing about superman. To think he would be defeated with one blast is crazy!

superman hasnt faced anyone with the planet busting abilities like vegeta

[saiyan jedi]

i wonder who would win. i know vegata has those nergy attacks but its going to take him awhile to wear down superman and superman is not going to stand there while he powers up. is till dont know. who would win drop your toughts.
what version of superman?
if its the movie or any normal comic book version
then vegeta wins, if its supes 1million or anything of that sort then
he wins

[saiyan jedi]

Well after I translated that post of yours into english. I came to the conclusion that you know nothing about superman. To think he would be defeated with one blast is crazy!
its his most powerful blast(just clearing that up)

he wouldn't be beat by one blast yes,
but he would feel it

[Warhammer]

None of those fighters are in the class of vegeta who can increase his power X 10 in an instant

So not one member of the Justice League is stronger than Vegeta?
Ok....

[Gotenks]

its his most powerful blast(just clearing that up)

he wouldn't be beat by one blast yes,
but he would feel it

Um.........ok like i said he wont be defeated with one blast.

[Jplaya2023]

So not one member of the Justice League is stronger than Vegeta?
Ok....


hell no they aint with the exception of batman he doesnt count

vegeta on earth is stronger than anyone in the DC universe period.

[Leto Atrides]

hell no they aint with the exception of batman he doesnt count

vegeta on earth is stronger than anyone in the DC universe period.

Anyone? I'd say he's in the high middle range on Earth, and eventually better than most. But certain Godly and cosmic characters are still stronger any time.

[Keollyn]

I don't even see Post-Crisis Superman losing to this version of Vegeta...

[saiyan jedi]

big suprise :rolleyes:

[LouFerignoDemon]

Anyone? I'd say he's in the high middle range on Earth, and eventually better than most. But certain Godly and cosmic characters are still stronger any time.

Screw it. Galactus decides he needs a new universe to feed from, goes to DBZ Earth, eats, it, and continues forth.

[saiyan jedi]

Screw it. Galactus decides he needs a new universe to feed from, goes to DBZ Earth, eats, it, and continues forth.
tsk
the only thing hes eating
is a point-blank kamehameha

[LouFerignoDemon]

lol Yeah right. This is the guy who could effortlessly remove energy from living beings that are crucial to their very survival, and just dissapate it. In the two seasons it takes Goku to even charge up half his little attack, Galactus would've been tired of all his yelling, and just smited him.

[saiyan jedi]

idk man gokus pretty damn fast
but he lets say that goku does lose his
life energy,he'll come back(dead) to fight a very suprised
galactus

[LouFerignoDemon]

Galactus can teleport things over great distances in space and HOLD them there with his cosmic energy alone. His strength level goes beyond anything else for the most part in the Marvel Universe. And his cosmic awareness tells him when large energies are around him unless he's very focused on something else. But usually when Galactus is that focused, he'll destroy things that get in his way with excess.

And from what I've seen, you can get your rear side handed to you after you die to the point where you're basically dead again. Then he'd probably place him in some sort of stasis, strip him of his power, or "heraldize" him into a rock or something.

[Jplaya2023]

Screw it. Galactus decides he needs a new universe to feed from, goes to DBZ Earth, eats, it, and continues forth.

that isnt fighting its a copout. If galactus got into an actual "fight" with someone from DBZ he'll lose because he has no fighting techniques and no way of keeping up. He would be destroyed in an instant. Thats a fact

[LouFerignoDemon]

Notice that there's several powerful entities in his universe, some of which are his creation, and he needs nothing more than slight excercizes in his power to defeat his enemies.

When you deal in raw power, tons of raw power can overcome skill. It's like saying a good martial artist could stop the sun from going supernova.

[Sloth7d]

Galactus:I'm here to eat your planet.
Goku:What!? Kamehamehaaaaa!
Galactus: Ohnooooosssss! Run!
Goku:Mehaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
*galactus head is blown off*
Goku:Well......that was pretty easy.....

[LouFerignoDemon]

lol No, it's a lot more like this. Five episodes of Goku yelling as Galactus sits there patiently, but upon the sixth episode..

"Screw it." And fires a cosmic bolt capable of devastating entire solar systems with ease.

[Jplaya2023]

lol No, it's a lot more like this. Five episodes of Goku yelling as Galactus sits there patiently, but upon the sixth episode..

"Screw it." And fires a cosmic bolt capable of devastating entire solar systems with ease.

wouldnt harm goku he's encountered worse

[LouFerignoDemon]

Worse? Like only sub planetary destructive waves that he either has to dodge or lessen?

[Jplaya2023]

Worse? Like only sub planetary destructive waves that he either has to dodge or lessen?

no like majin buu by just screaming ripping a hole in space time continuim, and having the power to destroy everything in existence. Same with Seru having the power to blow up the entire galaxy by just blowing himself up.

[LouFerignoDemon]

See, Galactus doesn't really need much energy to rip holes in space and time. Even when starved, he can move through space, time, dimensions, or whatever under his own power which seems quite easily.

And it's been stated that Galactus' power is one of the three tenants keeping the universe from destroying itself. So chances are, if he blew up, the universe goes WITH him.

[Jplaya2023]

See, Galactus doesn't really need much energy to rip holes in space and time. Even when starved, he can move through space, time, dimensions, or whatever under his own power which seems quite easily.

buu didnt use much energy as well he just did a simple yell and ripped a hole in the time space continuim

Galactus is just someone with the power to do wordly sheeit but couldnt fight to save his life.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually, he did. Evidenced by the fact only Gotenks at SSJ3 was capable of repeating the effort, and Piccolo did nothing.

As for Galactus having power, but not being able to do much to defend himself? Read up on him. It's his monthly treat to be bombarded by entire worlds worth of armadas and super beings that have planetary destruction capability usually laced to individual ships.

[mikestylez]

back on topic. i mean i dont think super man would totally dominate vegeta it would be a good fight vegat could probably lift anything super man could. i think superman could take more punishment then vegat at his point,but as far as fighting skills vegata got him beat so he would land more punches.

if vegata could land a qouick combo and send superman flying then hit him with a galick gun after wearing him down it might be over. bnut then maybe supes survie vegata is weeking then supes win. it really boils down to how much punishment supes can take and how many punches vegata could land.

[Ultra-Herald9]

that isnt fighting its a copout. If galactus got into an actual "fight" with someone from DBZ he'll lose because he has no fighting techniques and no way of keeping up. He would be destroyed in an instant. Thats a fact

I am very curious if you actually have any knowledge of comics at all? Galactus is THE POWER COSMIC and could EASILY take on every being in the DBZ universe shown. Galactus can literally do any feat he wants. He could turn every Z figter or Z villian's hearts into freaking sand with a thought before they could even think to strike against him. He has VAST reality control abilities and could make the air Goku freaking breathes explode with the force of a thousand Super Kamehameha waves.

[Ultra-Herald9]

back on topic. i mean i dont think super man would totally dominate vegeta it would be a good fight vegat could probably lift anything super man could. i think superman could take more punishment then vegat at his point,but as far as fighting skills vegata got him beat so he would land more punches.

if vegata could land a qouick combo and send superman flying then hit him with a galick gun after wearing him down it might be over. bnut then maybe supes survie vegata is weeking then supes win. it really boils down to how much punishment supes can take and how many punches vegata could land.

Vegeta at any point in DBZ isn't physically as powerful as Superman. Remember in DBZ when Super Saiyin 2 Goku has trouble pushing two halves of a moutain apart and when SSJ4 Goku had trouble lifting half a city? Well Supes has thrown a mountain the size of metropolis from earth to the Sun with barely any problem.One punch from him could KILL any Super Saiyin and if you say it doesn't your saying logically that Vegeta could take a punch from a SSJ3/SSJ4.

Current Superman could dominate any being in DBZ up to Majin Buu's level. The imperiex probe Supes fought could bust Solar Systems while Imperiex himself could destroy the Universe a couple times over.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

As I see it:
Pre-crisis Superman >> [Anime] Bejiita (on earth) > Post-crisis Superman >> [Manga] Bejiita on earth

[Gotenks]

back on topic. i mean i dont think super man would totally dominate vegeta it would be a good fight vegat could probably lift anything super man could. i think superman could take more punishment then vegat at his point,but as far as fighting skills vegata got him beat so he would land more punches.

if vegata could land a qouick combo and send superman flying then hit him with a galick gun after wearing him down it might be over. bnut then maybe supes survie vegata is weeking then supes win. it really boils down to how much punishment supes can take and how many punches vegata could land.

Wow you really need to look over what you just typed before you submit your post. It hurts my eyes just reading your poor grammer and your incorrect spelling. It makes you look stupid. People will just think your a 5 year old and won't take you seriously. Im not trying to be mean. Its just that I also had to learn the hard way. One more thing even though im considered one of the many DBZ fanboys, I know when to draw the line. Saying that vegeta at that stage can beat superman. Maybe Majin Vegeta might have a chance and thats after killing himself of course if you know what I mean.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Wow you really need to look over what you just typed before you submit your post. It hurts my eyes just reading your poor grammer and your incorrect spelling. It makes you look stupid. People will just think your a 5 year old and won't take you seriously. Im not trying to be mean. Its just that I also had to learn the hard way. One more thing even though im considered one of the many DBZ fanboys, I know when to draw the line. Saying that vegeta at that stage can beat superman. Maybe Majin Vegeta might have a chance and thats after killing himself of course if you know what I mean.


Dude, if you're going to insult someone for poor grammar, you should first correct the plentiful cardinal sin of incomplete sentences that plagued this post.

And put apostrophes in the word "It's".





As for my contribution to Vegeta beating Superman? If Vegeta could use a planetary destruction attack in under a few seconds, he could probably destroy Superman. I doubt Superman could survive a planet exploding, or even the force it would take to destroy a planet, which would be massive.

[Jplaya2023]

Vegeta at any point in DBZ isn't physically as powerful as Superman. Remember in DBZ when Super Saiyin 2 Goku has trouble pushing two halves of a moutain apart and when SSJ4 Goku had trouble lifting half a city? Well Supes has thrown a mountain the size of metropolis from earth to the Sun with barely any problem.One punch from him could KILL any Super Saiyin and if you say it doesn't your saying logically that Vegeta could take a punch from a SSJ3/SSJ4.

Current Superman could dominate any being in DBZ up to Majin Buu's level. The imperiex probe Supes fought could bust Solar Systems while Imperiex himself could destroy the Universe a couple times over.

filler for ssj2 goku and dbgt is a plothole

[Jplaya2023]

I am very curious if you actually have any knowledge of comics at all? Galactus is THE POWER COSMIC and could EASILY take on every being in the DBZ universe shown. Galactus can literally do any feat he wants. He could turn every Z figter or Z villian's hearts into freaking sand with a thought before they could even think to strike against him. He has VAST reality control abilities and could make the air Goku freaking breathes explode with the force of a thousand Super Kamehameha waves.

turning the Z fighters into sand isnt the same as beating the z fighters into a pulp im talking about a straight up fight not thinking about someone dying and they die. Thats wack

[LouFerignoDemon]

turning the Z fighters into sand isnt the same as beating the z fighters into a pulp im talking about a straight up fight not thinking about someone dying and they die. Thats wack

Galactus has the manipulative strength that'd allow him to lift entire planets and throw them with ease. Not to mention he doesn't suffer from the speed/size thing. He easily moves sub light speed with his arms alone when he wants to.

[Jplaya2023]

Galactus has the manipulative strength that'd allow him to lift entire planets and throw them with ease. Not to mention he doesn't suffer from the speed/size thing. He easily moves sub light speed with his arms alone when he wants to.

so educate me on his "fighting" skills. Is he hand 2 hand?? Use blast attacks has the ability to use his opponents move etc.. etc..??

[LouFerignoDemon]

so educate me on his "fighting" skills. Is he hand 2 hand?? Use blast attacks has the ability to use his opponents move etc.. etc..??

He's used his hands to fight before. But that's usually something that he deems below himself. It's comparable to walking over to the television to change the channel when you have the remote. Most of his attacks are cosmic energy attacks.

[Jplaya2023]

He's used his hands to fight before. But that's usually something that he deems below himself. It's comparable to walking over to the television to change the channel when you have the remote. Most of his attacks are cosmic energy attacks.

so he's a scrub in close quarters combat and relies on hitting his opponents with blindly fired cosmic attacks. Thank you.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually, his close quarters combat concerning his cosmic energy is just as dangerous if not more. And they're anything but blind. I've actually never seen one of his attacks miss even small small targets. You know, being pretty much all knowing and all.

Galactus would just hold them in place with his Power Cosmic, and then squish them between his fingers if you really need him to use his hands.

[Jplaya2023]

Actually, his close quarters combat concerning his cosmic energy is just as dangerous if not more. And they're anything but blind. I've actually never seen one of his attacks miss even small small targets. You know, being pretty much all knowing and all.

Galactus would just hold them in place with his Power Cosmic, and then squish them between his fingers if you really need him to use his hands.

His size gives him an advantage but he doesnt have the speed to keep up and his cosmic thing wouldnt bother no one in DBZ they seen "magic" before in Babidee

[LouFerignoDemon]

His size gives him an advantage but he doesnt have the speed to keep up and his cosmic thing wouldnt bother no one in DBZ they seen "magic" before in Babidee

I just said he can move at sublight to superlight speeds. As for magic? It's not magic. It's the fundamental energy of the universe. And Babidee was really kind of ultra weak.

[Jplaya2023]

I just said he can move at sublight to superlight speeds. As for magic? It's not magic. It's the fundamental energy of the universe. And Babidee was really kind of ultra weak.

babi dee is weak in terms of fighting ability, but his magic makes him strong, remember he was strong enough to control the king of demons in dabura. He's the strongest magician in the world and slightly above dr strange, batman and etricken

[LouFerignoDemon]

babi dee is weak in terms of fighting ability, but his magic makes him strong, remember he was strong enough to control the king of demons in dabura. He's the strongest magician in the world and slightly above dr strange, batman and etricken

Not strong enough to kill Piccolo apparently. And Dr. Strange is probably on a higher level than Babidi, seeing how he can summon magical deities to empower him further.

[Sloth7d]

Yeah Babidi IS pretty weak.
And how he even got control over that weakling Dabura is beyond me.
Though I think it's the fact that he can control anyone with an evil mind.
Which is why he could control Vegeta when he wanted to be evil again.
But he still had his limits, seeing as he could not even control the monster his father created.

[Gotenks]

Dude, if you're going to insult someone for poor grammar, you should first correct the plentiful cardinal sin of incomplete sentences that plagued this post.

And put apostrophes in the word "It's".





As for my contribution to Vegeta beating Superman? If Vegeta could use a planetary destruction attack in under a few seconds, he could probably destroy Superman. I doubt Superman could survive a planet exploding, or even the force it would take to destroy a planet, which would be massive.


I knew you would jump in after that post, I just knew it! Like I said I have been known to do it myself (Even though it was one mistake that could off happen to anyone). I was only giving advice. Nice comeback all you had against me was the word "Its".

[LouFerignoDemon]

I knew you would jump in after that post, I just knew it! Like I said I have been known to do it myself (Even though it was one mistake that could off happen to anyone). I was only giving advice. Nice comeback all you had against me was the word "Its".


That and your absolutely lack of sentence structure. This includes fragmented sentences like crazy. At a college level, you fail entire essays for just a couple of those. These are skills that are usually learned in ninth grade in America, and even before that.

In the future, would you like me to correct you each and every time for every little grammatical error? I really wouldn't mind performing this task for you.


Case in point: Being an ass gets you nowhere very quickly. If his grammar really hurts your eyes that bad, my only recommendation is get off your almighty high horse.

If that's too much, cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.


Friendly advice isn't to insult someone, it's to help them. This could easily be accomplished in a PM.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I knew you would jump in after that post, I just knew it! Like I said I have been known to do it myself (Even though it was one mistake that could off happen to anyone). I was only giving advice. Nice comeback all you had against me was the word "Its".


The grammatical errors that must be reported:

I'm going to assume we're using proper text rules. Your first sentence is okay. Your second sentence lacks the second space separating it from the first sentence, and you're missing a comma between "said" and "I". You are supposed to end the sentence with a period before your ()'s, and have the barracked sentence come after. You then missed the second space between this sentence and the next. In your barracked sentence, you used "off" instead of "of," and "happen" should have been "happened." Your third sentence is actually alright. You lack that space between this sentence and the final sentenc. Your last sentence lacks a comma between "comeback" and "all," and a comma after "word" and before "Its".


I'm actually pleasantly suprised this one wasn't absolutely plagued with incomplete sentences like the mass majority of your posts.


One last correction before I forget in your information to the left of the screen. It deals with your location to be exact: What you have written there is "chi chi and bulma's house". The only correct parts are spelling and an apostrophe.

How it SHOULD be done, is: "Chi Chi and Bulma's house"

Notice how proper nouns are capitlized along all words belonging to them.

[Gotenks]

That and your absolutely lack of sentence structure. This includes fragmented sentences like crazy. At a college level, you fail entire essays for just a couple of those. These are skills that are usually learned in ninth grade in America, and even before that.

In the future, would you like me to correct you each and every time for every little grammatical error? I really wouldn't mind performing this task for you.


Case in point: Being an ass gets you nowhere very quickly. If his grammar really hurts your eyes that bad, my only recommendation is get off your almighty high horse.

If that's too much, cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.


Friendly advice isn't to insult someone, it's to help them. This could easily be accomplished in a PM.

You have said that once before.
Its getting old.
I never said it was friendly advice, just advice.

[Gotenks]

The grammatical errors that must be reported:

I'm going to assume we're using proper text rules. Your first sentence is okay. Your second sentence lacks the second space separating it from the first sentence, and you're missing a comma between "said" and "I". You are supposed to end the sentence with a period before your ()'s, and have the barracked sentence come after. You then missed the second space between this sentence and the next. In your barracked sentence, you used "off" instead of "of," and "happen" should have been "happened." Your third sentence is actually alright. You lack that space between this sentence and the final sentenc. Your last sentence lacks a comma between "comeback" and "all," and a comma after "word" and before "Its".


I'm actually pleasantly suprised this one wasn't absolutely plagued with incomplete sentences like the mass majority of your posts.


One last correction before I forget in your information to the left of the screen. It deals with your location to be exact: What you have written there is "chi chi and bulma's house". The only correct parts are spelling and an apostrophe.

How it SHOULD be done, is: "Chi Chi and Bulma's house"

Notice how proper nouns are capitlized along all words belonging to them.

Good job i guess. Im not changing anything for you.
Mass majority! You have not even been here long enough to comment about my posts.Your saying that as if you just now looked through all my post. You just got here and you already think your the king.





You spelled "Sentence" wrong.

[Jplaya2023]

yall nikkas and nikkette's are starting to get petty. No one cares about spelling and grammar on a message board leave it alone

[Gotenks]

Yes I know, but she is taking it to another level. Talking about " If this was a college paper you would fail", from one mistake and not spacing a sentence.

I only commented mikey because he left out letters and spelled words incorrectly making it hard to even understand what he is trying to say. Thats who she should be correcting instead of me.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Good job i guess. Im not changing anything for you.
Mass majority! You have not even been here long enough to comment about my posts.Your saying that as if you just now looked through all my post. You just got here and you already think your the king.





You spelled "Sentence" wrong.

So you say seniority makes the cut, eh? Apparently intelligence isn't enough to correct people anymore.

And as for your information: I've been around the Hype longer than you. Check out Quantum_Goddess. That used to be my old running name I forgot the pass to after about a week or so of a break. So you've been around since '06? I've been around the Hype for a couple months longer. But this name is only, what, four months younger? So then four months, and apparently I'm not "old" enough? You can tell someone who's threatened when they talk like that, because they have nothing else.

I like how "older" people think. "I'm older, hence you have no right to correct me, no matter how right you are."


As for the proper spelling of the word "sentence"? "Sentence" is how sentence is spelled according to every source I'm capable of finding. Though I will compliment you on trying to get me on that, as you actually had me looking it up.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yes I know, but she is taking it to another level. Talking about " If this was a college paper you would fail", from one mistake and not spacing a sentence.

I only commented mikey because he left out letters and spelled words incorrectly making it hard to even understand what he is trying to say. Thats who she should be correcting instead of me.

Actually, his posts aren't hard to read. You said that if he didn't get better at his grammar, he'd look stupid. You said nothing about his posts being hard to read. He doesn't require any corrections in his grammar. It's not my place to say what he should do or not.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Double Post

[Jplaya2023]

So you say seniority makes the cut, eh? Apparently intelligence isn't enough to correct people anymore.

And as for your information: I've been around the Hype longer than you. Check out Quantum_Goddess. That used to be my old running name I forgot the pass to after about a week or so of a break. So you've been around since '06? I've been around the Hype for a couple months longer. But this name is only, what, four months younger? So then four months, and apparently I'm not "old" enough? You can tell someone who's threatened when they talk like that, because they have nothing else.

I like how "older" people think. "I'm older, hence you have no right to correct me, no matter how right you are."


As for the proper spelling of the word "sentence"? "Sentence" is how sentence is spelled according to every source I'm capable of finding. Though I will compliment you on trying to get me on that, as you actually had me looking it up.

miss gloun if u dont mind my asking how many numbers are in your age, where you from???

[LouFerignoDemon]

miss gloun if u dont mind my asking how many numbers are in your age, where you from???

21, and I'm from France.

[Gotenks]

So you say seniority makes the cut, eh? Apparently intelligence isn't enough to correct people anymore.

And as for your information: I've been around the Hype longer than you. Check out Quantum_Goddess. That used to be my old running name I forgot the pass to after about a week or so of a break. So you've been around since '06? I've been around the Hype for a couple months longer. But this name is only, what, four months younger? So then four months, and apparently I'm not "old" enough? You can tell someone who's threatened when they talk like that, because they have nothing else.

I like how "older" people think. "I'm older, hence you have no right to correct me, no matter how right you are."


As for the proper spelling of the word "sentence"? "Sentence" is how sentence is spelled according to every source I'm capable of finding. Though I will compliment you on trying to get me on that, as you actually had me looking it up.

I have never said that. I just meant its not like you have been in every thread I have posted in so how would you know.

I could careless how old you are. I doubt you have been here longer then me. I made " Gotenks" just for the anime fourm. I have many others. Toei sama, Fireball jimmy, and more.

[Gotenks]

The grammatical errors that must be reported:

I'm going to assume we're using proper text rules. Your first sentence is okay. Your second sentence lacks the second space separating it from the first sentence, and you're missing a comma between "said" and "I". You are supposed to end the sentence with a period before your ()'s, and have the barracked sentence come after. You then missed the second space between this sentence and the next. In your barracked sentence, you used "off" instead of "of," and "happen" should have been "happened." Your third sentence is actually alright. You lack that space between this sentence and the final sentenc. Your last sentence lacks a comma between "comeback" and "all," and a comma after "word" and before "Its".


I'm actually pleasantly suprised this one wasn't absolutely plagued with incomplete sentences like the mass majority of your posts.


One last correction before I forget in your information to the left of the screen. It deals with your location to be exact: What you have written there is "chi chi and bulma's house". The only correct parts are spelling and an apostrophe.

How it SHOULD be done, is: "Chi Chi and Bulma's house"

Notice how proper nouns are capitlized along all words belonging to them.

Im sure if you tried you could of found it.

[Gotenks]

Actually, his posts aren't hard to read. You said that if he didn't get better at his grammar, he'd look stupid. You said nothing about his posts being hard to read. He doesn't require any corrections in his grammar. It's not my place to say what he should do or not.

:confused: What you don't remember me saying my eyes hurt.
I know it's not your place to say what he should or should not do. Same goes for me but why did you attack me then?

[LouFerignoDemon]

I have never said that. I just meant its not like you have been in every thread I have posted in so how would you know.

I could careless how old you are. I doubt you have been here longer then me. I made " Gotenks" just for the anime fourm. I have many others. Toei sama, Fireball jimmy, and more.

How long I was around made a difference in your last post when you thought I hadn't been around as long. But now that you know that I've been around for longer, it doesn't make a difference?

As for Toei-Sama, I remember that from my first name I made back in early '05.

Now, you say that you NEVER said he looks dumb for his grammar? You should have at least gone back and edited your post to cover yourself. Why would I say that? This is why:
Wow you really need to look over what you just typed before you submit your post. It hurts my eyes just reading your poor grammer and your incorrect spelling. It makes you look stupid. People will just think your a 5 year old and won't take you seriously. Im not trying to be mean. Its just that I also had to learn the hard way. One more thing even though im considered one of the many DBZ fanboys, I know when to draw the line. Saying that vegeta at that stage can beat superman. Maybe Majin Vegeta might have a chance and thats after killing himself of course if you know what I mean.

While I see that you're saying you're "not trying to be mean", I can easily see that your eyes hurt from his apparent lack of grammar, and that it makes him look stupid.

[LouFerignoDemon]

:confused: What you don't remember me saying my eyes hurt.
I know it's not your place to say what he should or should not do. Same goes for me but why did you attack me then?

Eyes hurting, and difficulty to read are far different.

And why did I attack you? Because you had the audacity to go after someone who doesn't really need correction.

[Gotenks]

21, and I'm from France.
Do you go to a college in North America? Just wondering.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Do you go to a college in North America? Just wondering.

I did for a year back when I was 19. But to finish up for physics, I opted to go back to my homecountry.

[Gotenks]

Eyes hurting, and difficulty to read are far different.

And why did I attack you? Because you had the audacity to go after someone who doesn't really need correction.

It didn't concern you.

[LouFerignoDemon]

It didn't concern you.

And it didn't concern you either.

[Gotenks]

I did for a year back when I was 19. But to finish up for physics, I opted to go back to my homecountry.

Ah, I see.

Well it has been fun arguing with you , but I should get back to the thread topic.

If it makes you feel any better, I am sorry for my post concerning mikey's grammer.

[Gotenks]

And it didn't concern you either.


Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How bothersome.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How bothersome.

Trust me, you have no idea.

But since the arguement is done and over with, then please, by all means, back to topic.

[Gotenks]

Well i say Superman only becuase I think in the DBZ universe Goku is the only one who can stand up to Superman.

And maybe Buu.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually, I'd say Goku and Vegeta during the Buu saga have a really good chance against Superman. By that time, their strength might not be as great still, but their energy attacks easily go into the planetary destruction range. Sure, in the anime it takes them two or three seasons it seems to do enough yelling to accomplish this, but I'm going with the assumption it's filler time, and that they can pull off huge energy feats in relative seconds.

Buu would DEFINITELY pose a huge threat, as well as Cell, since he can just keep coming back, and Superman pretty much has no way of destroying every cell in Cell's body without releasing a massive store of energy.


But if we're just talking about Vegeta when he first got to Earth, I'm pretty sure Superman would have him. The DBZ characters power levels raise at nigh ridiculous rates throughout the series.

[Sloth7d]

I'm sorry but(and I'll probably get flamed for this) but in my opinion Piccolo ,during the frieza saga, and everyone stronger than him can beat superman. Just my opinion.

[Leto Atrides]

I'm sorry but(and I'll probably get flamed for this) but in my opinion Piccolo ,during the frieza saga, and everyone stronger than him can beat superman. Just my opinion.

Well it depends on when you're talking about. Superman changes "power level" over time too. Early on, when he was lifting cars and jumping over buildings, you're right. Current continuity, not so much.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Well it depends on when you're talking about. Superman changes "power level" over time too. Early on, when he was lifting cars and jumping over buildings, you're right. Current continuity, not so much.

Indeed. It would take a SSJ3/Fusion/or a Buu form to take down a pissed off Supes and anything lower would have an extremely hard time trying to take Superman down unless the have a buttload of magic power.

Superman has shown feats of strength,speed,and durability that dwarves any DBZ character below Buu's level. Superman has survived getting hit with the Omega Effect,Survived in a Blackhole without having his atoms ripped apart, and he can take hits from Superboy-Prime(he can easily move Planets) so he can easily take a planet destroying blast.

What I don't understand is why people think blowing up any type of celestial body is some kind of godlike feat? Its all essentially about RANGE. The universe is essentially just Rocks,Gas,and Energy and these things are not Durable or very stable at all. There is no object in the world even near as Durable as Supes an Busting planets is childsplay. Supes had tro learn as a little boy how to control his powers so he wouldn't destroy the earth.

Its all about Force not range if you want to beat Supes and quite frankly Kamehameha's are a joke compared some of the stuff Supes has been hit with.

[Warhammer]

Indeed. It would take a SSJ3/Fusion/or a Buu form to take down a pissed off Supes and anything lower would have an extremely hard time trying to take Superman down unless the have a buttload of magic power.

Superman has shown feats of strength,speed,and durability that dwarves any DBZ character below Buu's level. Superman has survived getting hit with the Omega Effect,Survived in a Blackhole without having his atoms ripped apart, and he can take hits from Superboy-Prime(he can easily move Planets) so he can easily take a planet destroying blast.

What I don't understand is why people think blowing up any type of celestial body is some kind of godlike feat? Its all essentially about RANGE. The universe is essentially just Rocks,Gas,and Energy and these things are not Durable or very stable at all. There is no object in the world even near as Durable as Supes an Busting planets is childsplay. Supes had tro learn as a little boy how to control his powers so he wouldn't destroy the earth.

Its all about Force not range if you want to beat Supes and quite frankly Kamehameha's are a joke compared some of the stuff Supes has been hit with.

I agree. :up:

[LouFerignoDemon]

Indeed. It would take a SSJ3/Fusion/or a Buu form to take down a pissed off Supes and anything lower would have an extremely hard time trying to take Superman down unless the have a buttload of magic power.

Superman has shown feats of strength,speed,and durability that dwarves any DBZ character below Buu's level. Superman has survived getting hit with the Omega Effect,Survived in a Blackhole without having his atoms ripped apart, and he can take hits from Superboy-Prime(he can easily move Planets) so he can easily take a planet destroying blast.

What I don't understand is why people think blowing up any type of celestial body is some kind of godlike feat? Its all essentially about RANGE. The universe is essentially just Rocks,Gas,and Energy and these things are not Durable or very stable at all. There is no object in the world even near as Durable as Supes an Busting planets is childsplay. Supes had tro learn as a little boy how to control his powers so he wouldn't destroy the earth.

Its all about Force not range if you want to beat Supes and quite frankly Kamehameha's are a joke compared some of the stuff Supes has been hit with.

Actually, Superman, before Infinite Crisis, was having problems with nuclear weapons. The energy required to destroy the Earth would be comparable to taking every weapon on Earth, multiplying it quite a few times, and setting them off all at once.

Is Superman better strength wise? Definitely. Basic physical durability? Also yes. But the DBZ characters, after the Frieza saga, pretty much all had the ability to use their energy to ride out entire planets exploding.


The durability of planets and such is extremely good. The only thing that could really break up Earth outside of tons of energy or the sun exploding is another object made up much like Earth, and around the same size to within 30% moving at incredible speeds to actually destroy the Earth.

When the moon was formed, a planet around the size of Earth came about, and crashed into Earth, and that didn't even destroy the Earth, it just fragmented it a little. Where DBZ characters literally possess the ability to vaporize planets. So when you say celestial bodies are rather fragile, I'll definitely say that they aren't all that fragile. Laws stand in place with the universe. Without them, the apparent fragility of our gas sun would've self ignited it's source, and obliterated our solar system billions of years ago.

[SLVRSR4]

:o On that note piccolo could have defeated him before Vegeta came because he destroyed the moon

[LouFerignoDemon]

After charging up all sorts of his energy, after training tons after Dragon Ball, noting that he wasn't fighting Superman, and Goku actually is capable of the same defense I was just talking about.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Actually, Superman, before Infinite Crisis, was having problems with nuclear weapons. The energy required to destroy the Earth would be comparable to taking every weapon on Earth, multiplying it quite a few times, and setting them off all at once.

Is Superman better strength wise? Definitely. Basic physical durability? Also yes. But the DBZ characters, after the Frieza saga, pretty much all had the ability to use their energy to ride out entire planets exploding.


The durability of planets and such is extremely good. The only thing that could really break up Earth outside of tons of energy or the sun exploding is another object made up much like Earth, and around the same size to within 30% moving at incredible speeds to actually destroy the Earth.


When the moon was formed, a planet around the size of Earth came about, and crashed into Earth, and that didn't even destroy the Earth, it just fragmented it a little. Where DBZ characters literally possess the ability to vaporize planets. So when you say celestial bodies are rather fragile, I'll definitely say that they aren't all that fragile. Laws stand in place with the universe. Without them, the apparent fragility of our gas sun would've self ignited it's source, and obliterated our solar system billions of years ago.


The earth is actually quite fragile contrary to popular belief. right now we possess the tech to practically oblitarate this entire planet and a asteriod the size of a city could totally obliterate the earth's surface even with a water landing. Even the weakest gamma ray bursts can easily destroy entire planets and theoretically there are novas and black holes that take out entire Galaxies.

I don't understand where you came up with the Supes getting whipped by nukes thing since the Guy has been hit with nukes while literally sitting on kryptonite.

[Ultra-Herald9]

I really don't understand why Supes is constantly downsized even though his list of feats FAAAARRR excedes anything shown by any DBZ character lower than Buu. Supes has defeated GODS and Cosmic entities that would make the Z fighters soil themselves yet he still gets no credit. Planet/solar-system/galaxy destroying blasts aren't going to be much of big deal because Supes won't let them have enough time to charge up a blast that could actually damage him. Supes has a major advantage in this fight because he is stronger than most opf these characters in even there most powered up forms.


Imagine DBZ fighting someone that doesn't take ten minutes of screaming to get to thier max levels. Logically Superman should be the winner since he is as strong as SSJ3 and even more durable and just as fast at his base levels. In fact it would only take Supes one good combo to floor any Z fighter since they would have to charge up for a LONG time to actually stop Superman's charge with a blast and Supes would not give them a chance since he'd either run up and attack(with the force of a SSJ3) or blast them with heat vision then attack. Plus if he misses a chance to stop a blast(which chances are he probably wouldn't)he could just pull the old Flash trick a vibrate his body INTANGIBLE so the blast doesn't effect him then continue his assault until their bodies could no longer retain their highest forms from sheer body damage then the fight will pretty much be a cake walk.:D


Oh yeah and I don't remeber any DBZ character in continiuty surviving a world destroying blast. In fact even Mystic Gohan got vaporized by a mere planet explosion and he was one of the most powerful characters in all of DBZ. In fact I have never seen anyone enrgy shield themselves from a planet buster like everyone says they can.

[The Hurricane]

OMG the saga of superman vs SBZ is still going

[Jplaya2023]

Imagine DBZ fighting someone that doesn't take ten minutes of screaming to get to thier max levels. .

You obviously dont read Manga the anime isnt canon it doesnt take that long to charge power in the manga. And also please explain how superman is anywhere near the level of a ssj3?

[Warhammer]

You obviously dont read Manga the anime isnt canon it doesnt take that long to charge power in the manga. And also please explain how superman is anywhere near the level of a ssj3?

In my opinion, Pre-Crisis Superman and Superman Prime trump SSJ3.
Post-Crisis Superman is either a bit lower or a bit higher than SSJ3.

[Warhammer]

OMG the saga of superman vs SBZ is still going

It will last forever. :( :down

[Sloth7d]

OMG the saga of superman vs SBZ is still going
Announcer: On the next episode of Goku vs superman-z:
Another fact is brought into the aurgument. Will someone debate back. Find out next time, and the next time, and the next time.Mwahaha!

Naruto:And imagine when my show is complete. Then there will be Superman vs Naruto topics EVERYWHERE! Believe it!
*end dialogue*

[Jplaya2023]

In my opinion, Pre-Crisis Superman and Superman Prime trump SSJ3.
Post-Crisis Superman is either a bit lower or a bit higher than SSJ3.

care to explain

[Ultra-Herald9]

care to explain

I think he's talking about how Post-crisis Supes can hurl billions of tons, toss ships the size of moons,and stop planets in their orbits. While Pre-Crisis Superman could toss planets when he was a kid and could easily speed faster then the time barier. He could also blow out stars with a single breath and sneaze away solar systems and could shrug off blasts of anti-matter.:)

[LouFerignoDemon]

The earth is actually quite fragile contrary to popular belief. right now we possess the tech to practically oblitarate this entire planet and a asteriod the size of a city could totally obliterate the earth's surface even with a water landing. Even the weakest gamma ray bursts can easily destroy entire planets and theoretically there are novas and black holes that take out entire Galaxies.

I don't understand where you came up with the Supes getting whipped by nukes thing since the Guy has been hit with nukes while literally sitting on kryptonite.

Actually, we do NOT possess the technology (unless you care to show me specs on machines capable of destabilizing more than 59,742,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg of super dense rock. Hint. That's extremely heavy and dense, and the energy required would be absolutely solar.) to destroy an entire planet. And an asteroid doesn't obliterate the Earth's surface. It vaporizes itself due to the atmosphere and actual impact with Earth, possibly a dozen dozen feet deep, maybe a couple times it's diameter around itself into dust which covers the Earth, which causes no sunlight, which devastates the plant life (alongside falling sediment and polluting waters), which devastates animal life, and it moves on from there, making Earth appear very barren. But Earth is still there. This is where people say, "What if we destabilize the core?" What do you mean destabilize? It's NOT stable. It's molten, it doesn't support anything, and constantly causes eruptions of pressure all the time. If something as simple as a nuclear bomb (read: ten nuclear bombs required to jettison magma from the core to the surface, at least), then the Earth would have destroyed itself.


Nova's (read Supernovae event horizons) destroy their solar systems just before dispersal. Unless you're considering a galaxy's core. Even then, it will not destroy an entire galaxy, though destroy it mostly. Since the core makes up pretty much almost half of the galaxy itself in mass. A single supernova working at one solar mass (read: our home star, "Sol") even if you were to triple it's energy, and make it expand three times as far, the energy it must overcome throughout the galaxy is more than one billion times itself, and the distance is so vast in the vaccuum, that it just would dissapate. And for the most part about galaxy cores, our galaxy doesn't sit right on top of it. If we did, our entire galaxy would've been pulled in by it's gravity, and destroyed all things in our galaxy. Blackholes ALSO do not destroy galaxies. Unless of course you're also talking about a galaxy core. But since it would have to pretty much explode first, it wouldn't destroy the galaxy either way.

Case in point. If the universe's celestial bodies were THAT fragile, with THAT much danger lying around them, the universe would never have been habitable for us in the first place. If you REALLY think that the structures prevading our universe are at THAT much of a whimsey, and you're that interested in knowing, I'd definitely recommend a slew of astophysics courses, backed by the chem, basic physics, advanced physics, and particle physics courses that would definitely elate a different story.

[LouFerignoDemon]

In my opinion, Pre-Crisis Superman and Superman Prime trump SSJ3.
Post-Crisis Superman is either a bit lower or a bit higher than SSJ3.

Agreed. The sheer durability and physical power FAR outweight anything they've ever hoped to accomplish. THAT Superman could withstand planetary destruction like it was nothing. Or at least one of us getting winded.


And Superboy Prime was FAR more powerful than that.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Actually, we do NOT possess the technology (unless you care to show me specs on machines capable of destabilizing more than 59,742,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg of super dense rock. Hint. That's extremely heavy and dense, and the energy required would be absolutely solar.) to destroy an entire planet. And an asteroid doesn't obliterate the Earth's surface. It vaporizes itself due to the atmosphere and actual impact with Earth, possibly a dozen dozen feet deep, maybe a couple times it's diameter around itself into dust which covers the Earth, which causes no sunlight, which devastates the plant life (alongside falling sediment and polluting waters), which devastates animal life, and it moves on from there, making Earth appear very barren. But Earth is still there. This is where people say, "What if we destabilize the core?" What do you mean destabilize? It's NOT stable. It's molten, it doesn't support anything, and constantly causes eruptions of pressure all the time. If something as simple as a nuclear bomb (read: ten nuclear bombs required to jettison magma from the core to the surface, at least), then the Earth would have destroyed itself.


Nova's (read Supernovae event horizons) destroy their solar systems just before dispersal. Unless you're considering a galaxy's core. Even then, it will not destroy an entire galaxy, though destroy it mostly. Since the core makes up pretty much almost half of the galaxy itself in mass. A single supernova working at one solar mass (read: our home star, "Sol") even if you were to triple it's energy, and make it expand three times as far, the energy it must overcome throughout the galaxy is more than one billion times itself, and the distance is so vast in the vaccuum, that it just would dissapate. And for the most part about galaxy cores, our galaxy doesn't sit right on top of it. If we did, our entire galaxy would've been pulled in by it's gravity, and destroyed all things in our galaxy. Blackholes ALSO do not destroy galaxies. Unless of course you're also talking about a galaxy core. But since it would have to pretty much explode first, it wouldn't destroy the galaxy either way.

Case in point. If the universe's celestial bodies were THAT fragile, with THAT much danger lying around them, the universe would never have been habitable for us in the first place. If you REALLY think that the structures prevading our universe are at THAT much of a whimsey, and you're that interested in knowing, I'd definitely recommend a slew of astophysics courses, backed by the chem, basic physics, advanced physics, and particle physics courses that would definitely elate a different story.


Dang...... I just got schooled.:( Wow that was quite the hunk of knowledge and I can always admit when i'm totally outclassed. You should seriously give yourself a round of aplause.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Dang...... I just got schooled.:( Wow that was quite the hunk of knowledge and I can always admit when i'm totally outclassed. You should seriously give yourself a round of aplause.


Nah. Science just happens to be my forte. (I should actually be starting my masters in physics here next Spring.) I hope I haven't derailed you off the path of science though. x.x

[Ultra-Herald9]

Nah. Science just happens to be my forte. (I should actually be starting my masters in physics here next Spring.) I hope I haven't derailed you off the path of science though. x.x

Don't worry cause science will always be interesting to me but I think i'll mostly just stick to comics. Its always cool to know that there are incredibly smart people in the world and I think what your doing is really respectable.

[xwolverine2]

supes would get hiss ass WHOOPED!

[Sloth7d]

Yay for random outburst!

[Ultra-Herald9]

supes would get hiss ass WHOOPED!

Are you trying to sound dumb?

[ster]

looks like Goku would win this one

[Warhammer]

care to explain

Ultra-Herald and Mistress already explained for me.
If you think its true, please care to explain how SSJ3 is stronger than Superman Prime and Pe-Crisis Superman?
I'm just wondering.

[Jplaya2023]

Ultra-Herald and Mistress already explained for me.
If you think its true, please care to explain how SSJ3 is stronger than Superman Prime and Pe-Crisis Superman?
I'm just wondering.

Superman Prime is folklore with a few pictures and what not. He hasnt actually fought anyone yet so we dont know the extent of his abilities. Pre Crisis superman may be stronger as far as raw strength to an untrained SSJ, but a SSJ is infinately faster and stronger in the sense of battle speed, better fighting skills, tactics, and more endurance from a damage standpoint depending on the type of enemy faced.

[MSGohan]

In DBZ the characters powerlevel increase chronogically up untill the end of the Frieza saga. That was also supposed to be the end of DBZ with Goku ending up dead. After that their powers aren't demenstrated quite well. There are so many I don't even know where to start, but I mention a few ones. Some ppl keep refering to the time where Goku was training in the other world and he had trouble lifting those 40 tons in his normal state and hence basing his strength at that. But Frieza lifted a mounten which Goku even managed to stop with his strengh (not ki) in his normal form. And surely he was MANY times stronger that in the other world. Another thing on that scene (when Goku was fighting Frieza) was why Goku didn't just fly through that mounten when surely rocks cant hurt him, yet he looked afraid. He does fly through it right after stopping it though.
And another thing is their speeds. People refer to Gotenks flying over the world few (8?) times in 30 min (correct me if it's not 30 min), which makes his speed a little over 600.000 km/hr or about 180 km/sec. But Goku flew 1000.000 km (the snakeway) in about a day, which makes his full speed at THAT time a around 400.000 km/hr or 115 km/sec, so Gotenks speed must be much higher.
Another thing about speed:
Well we now from Bulma that the distance from earth to Namek is 4339,25 ly, which mean it'll take that many years by traveling with the speed of light to namek. Goku's spaceship got there in about 6 days, which makes that ships speed about 4339,25ly/6days = 260.000 times the speed of light. Now Kaio could follow that ship by communicating with Goku and ect. which means his senses or whatever you would call it, and could keep up with that speed. But when Goku went SSJ when fighting Frieza they moved so fast that even Kaio-sama couldn't keep up with them, he states him self that this has never happend before, because those 2 are moving SO fast! But he could keep up with the spaceship, so by simple logic SSJ Goku's and Frieza's speed most be beyond 260.000c!!!
The inconsistensies begin after the Frieza saga, like their powers not having that huge amount of "side-effect" to the surroundings like in the Frieza saga. Examples: A simple energy blast from Frieza was like a nuke, when he transformed his energy disturbed the atmospher, and there are many more in that saga (the best saga IMO). Surely the fights after that should have been more impressive. Because they (at least some of them) ARE stronger and faster after that saga (in the Cell and Buu saga).

One might even say that the sagas after the Frieza saga is a bit like GT only Akira creating it. He probably didn't spend as much time on those sagas as for the sagas uptill and incl the Frieza's.
DBZ charachters are obviously alot stronger then they look like... I'll just ignore things like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons or SSJ4 Goku having trouble lifting half a city.

Btw things like the time they take to powerup or transform into a SSJ or Super Buu taking alot of time to find Goku and Vegeta, is probably just to make show more exciting. If Buu just found them in a slitsecond before Goku could make it to tell Vegeta about his plan, that would be screwed...

I know I got a bit off topic but these things just had to be said didn't want to create a new thread about it.

And for those who says that DBZ characters themselfs haven't been hit by planet destroying attacks: When Vegeta first fought Goku on earth, he got hit by the Genki Dama (spirit bomb) and survived that. Kaio-sama stated him self that the attack can easely destroy the earth.

[Sloth7d]

In DBZ the characters powerlevel increase chronogically up untill the end of the Frieza saga. That was also supposed to be the end of DBZ with Goku ending up dead. After that their powers aren't demenstrated quite well. There are so many I don't even know where to start, but I mention a few ones. Some ppl keep refering to the time where Goku was training in the other world and he had trouble lifting those 40 tons in his normal state and hence basing his strength at that. But Frieza lifted a mounten which Goku even managed to stop with his strengh (not ki) in his normal form. And surely he was MANY times stronger that in the other world. Another thing on that scene (when Goku was fighting Frieza) was why Goku didn't just fly through that mounten when surely rocks cant hurt him, yet he looked afraid. He does fly through it right after stopping it though.
And another thing is their speeds. People refer to Gotenks flying over the world few (8?) times in 30 min (correct me if it's not 30 min), which makes his speed a little over 600.000 km/hr or about 180 km/sec. But Goku flew 1000.000 km (the snakeway) in about a day, which makes his full speed at THAT time a around 400.000 km/hr or 115 km/sec, so Gotenks speed must be much higher.
Another thing about speed:
Well we now from Bulma that the distance from earth to Namek is 4339,25 ly, which mean it'll take that many years by traveling with the speed of light to namek. Goku's spaceship got there in about 6 days, which makes that ships speed about 4339,25ly/6days = 260.000 times the speed of light. Now Kaio could follow that ship by communicating with Goku and ect. which means his senses or whatever you would call it, and could keep up with that speed. But when Goku went SSJ when fighting Frieza they moved so fast that even Kaio-sama couldn't keep up with them, he states him self that this has never happend before, because those 2 are moving SO fast! But he could keep up with the spaceship, so by simple logic SSJ Goku's and Frieza's speed most be beyond 260.000c!!!
The inconsistensies begin after the Frieza saga, like their powers not having that huge amount of "side-effect" to the surroundings like in the Frieza saga. Examples: A simple energy blast from Frieza was like a nuke, when he transformed his energy disturbed the atmospher, and there are many more in that saga (the best saga IMO). Surely the fights after that should have been more impressive. Because they (at least some of them) ARE stronger and faster after that saga (in the Cell and Buu saga).

One might even say that the sagas after the Frieza saga is a bit like GT only Akira creating it. He probably didn't spend as much time on those sagas as for the sagas uptill and incl the Frieza's.
DBZ charachters are obviously alot stronger then they look like... I'll just ignore things like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons or SSJ4 Goku having trouble lifting half a city.

Btw things like the time they take to powerup or transform into a SSJ or Super Buu taking alot of time to find Goku and Vegeta, is probably just to make show more exciting. If Buu just found them in a slitsecond before Goku could make it to tell Vegeta about his plan, that would be screwed...

I know I got a bit off topic but these things just had to be said didn't want to create a new thread about it.

And for those who says that DBZ characters themselfs haven't been hit by planet destroying attacks: When Vegeta first fought Goku on earth, he got hit by the Genki Dama (spirit bomb) and survived that. Kaio-sama stated him self that the attack can easely destroy the earth.
OMG! Thank you.
I could have never said it better.
Looks like even I underestimated Goku with that 40 tons BS.

[Sloth7d]

looks like Goku would win this one
He'll always win.It could be Vegeta vs Mewtwo
Goku wins.
Superman vs Gohan
Goku wins
Broly vs the hulk
Goku wins
the patriots vs the eagles
Goku wins.

Its the deus ex-machina thing, I guess.

[Warhammer]

Superman Prime is folklore with a few pictures and what not. He hasnt actually fought anyone yet so we dont know the extent of his abilities. Pre Crisis superman may be stronger as far as raw strength to an untrained SSJ, but a SSJ is infinately faster and stronger in the sense of battle speed, better fighting skills, tactics, and more endurance from a damage standpoint depending on the type of enemy faced.

Man, There you go again with Goku (any DBZ character) would win because they are a better fighter. Goku couldn't do half the things Pre-Crisis Superman could do. You don't get it. Pre-Crisis Superman is too powerful for Goku and so strong, that comic writers had to power him down. Not everything is a fight to the finish DBZ-type fight.

...and you still didn't tell me how SSJ3 is more powerful than Pre-Crisis Superman.

I think he's talking about how Post-crisis Supes can hurl billions of tons, toss ships the size of moons,and stop planets in their orbits. While Pre-Crisis Superman could toss planets when he was a kid and could easily speed faster then the time barier. He could also blow out stars with a single breath and sneaze away solar systems and could shrug off blasts of anti-matter.:)

[Warhammer]

He'll always win.It could be Vegeta vs Mewtwo
Goku wins.
Superman vs Gohan
Goku wins
Broly vs the hulk
Goku wins
the patriots vs the eagles
Goku wins.

Its the deus ex-machina thing, I guess.

Goku is a hero to some people so he'll never lose.
People can't accept that he can lose and will think up 100 stupid reason why he can, just like many people say Batman can beat anyone with Prep-time or build a instant kill gun. :(

[Jplaya2023]

Man, There you go again with Goku (any DBZ character) would win because they are a better fighter. Goku couldn't do half the things Pre-Crisis Superman could do. You don't get it. Pre-Crisis Superman is too powerful for Goku and so strong, that comic writers had to power him down. Not everything is a fight to the finish DBZ-type fight.

...and you still didn't tell me how SSJ3 is more powerful than Pre-Crisis Superman.

because this is a fight and goku is a better fighter so what exactly am i wrong again???? Its great that superman prime can sneeze galaxies out of existence and **** out moons or whatever whoopty doo. But in a fight he gets owned point blank simple.


I think SSJ is more powerful than Pre Crisis superman, ssj3 is overkill.

The only evidence u have otherwise is "well superman lifted a galaxy and threw it 500 miles" Or something off topic like that.

[MSGohan]

I think SSJ is more powerful than Pre Crisis superman, ssj3 is overkill.


Well SSJ was supposed to be the ultimate power in DBZ, that's also very well illustrated in the Frieza saga. But the other levels aren't demonstrated quit well, yet they are supposed to be overkill compared to SSJ. But when you watch it they look more like weaker than stronger. The fights on Namek should give people the impression of how powerfull the fighters are, but after that, you don't get that impression... :(

As for the fight, I think that when Vegeta first came down to earth, he would be as strong as the Superman from the animated series or the one from JLU...
Superman Prime reminds me of Amazo from JLU.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Superman Prime reminds me of Amazo from JLU.

Ehh... Superman Prime, Amazo?
Are you sure you don´t mess hm up with Superboy Prime?

Superman Prime´s feats:
1, Can re-create planet´s and give life (Re-created Krypton and gave every being there life).
2, Gave Loise Lane life and then immortality.
3, No one in the universe dared to fight him.
4, He flied so fast he was able to reverse and rewind time.
5, He could fly through different realities.
6, He was basicly immue to physical damage (-every hit was absorbed by his body), and immortal.
7, He was immue to kryptonite.
8, He flied in warp-speed.
9, He beat the Spectre.
10, He moved a galaxy with a thought

[Leto Atrides]

because this is a fight and goku is a better fighter so what exactly am i wrong again???? Its great that superman prime can sneeze galaxies out of existence and **** out moons or whatever whoopty doo. But in a fight he gets owned point blank simple.

Unless they're in a martial arts tournemant and they're being judged solely on technique or something, I fail to see how that reasoning holds up.

They can kick him a million times in a second and shoot energy balls as much as they want. If it can't hurt him (Superman Prime for example) it doesn't make a difference.

[Warhammer]

In terms of Goku and Superman Prime, better fighting skills don't matter.

If a skinny guy gets in some s*** with a body builder, will the skinny guy win because he is a better fighter?

[MSGohan]

Perhaps A.M.A.Z.O from JLU (the Android) can't do some of the things you mention, but if you have seen JLU you would now what his capable of.

1, Can re-create planet´s and give life (Re-created Krypton and gave every being there life).
2, Gave Loise Lane life and then immortality.

If we are talking about fighting, then this skill means nothing...

3, No one in the universe dared to fight him.

Ok... What does this has to do with what I said?

4, He flied so fast he was able to reverse and rewind time.

So how fast was that?

5, He could fly through different realities.

Cool, that Android could do similar stuff. Teleported the Green Lantern planet to another dimension.

6, He was basicly immue to physical damage (-every hit was absorbed by his body), and immortal.

Immune to Lex Luthor's punches? Immortal, kewl..

7, He was immue to kryptonite.

Ok... Even though the Android absorbed Supermans weakness, he later evolved and was immune too. But why do people refer to this all the time? When we consider fights, we don't say I can kill you by using your weakness... It's like saying a nerd kid with glasses can kill Bruce Lee with a gun, because his not immune to bullets...

8, He flied in warp-speed.

So, he can fly faster than the speed of light? Wow I'm impressed... That Android could do that too.
But Green Lantern flies across the Galaxy, surly he most be able to travel faster than the speed of light too.

9, He beat the Spectre.

Don't know how strong he is...

10, He moved a galaxy with a thought

Ok, kewl ability...

[LouFerignoDemon]

Perhaps A.M.A.Z.O from JLU (the Android) can't do some of the things you mention, but if you have seen JLU you would now what his capable of.



If we are talking about fighting, then this skill means nothing...

Actually, the ability to manifest would also lend to the thought of demanifestation, since it would be the same amount of energy required to create something from nothing. (IE Beyond infinite amounts.)



Ok... What does this has to do with what I said?

Nobody really wanted to fight that Amazo either unless they had to. Ditto would roll with Superman Prime.



So how fast was that?

Physically breaching the luminal barrier.



Cool, that Android could do similar stuff. Teleported the Green Lantern planet to another dimension.

Prime actually breached other dimensions with his physical power alone. He didn't have some sort of energy gimmick that moved things out of phase with one another. He simply just flew into another dimension.



Immune to Lex Luthor's punches? Immortal, kewl..

XD That's awesome that you actually said that.



Ok... Even though the Android absorbed Supermans weakness, he later evolved and was immune too. But why do people refer to this all the time? When we consider fights, we don't say I can kill you by using your weakness... It's like saying a nerd kid with glasses can kill Bruce Lee with a gun, because his not immune to bullets...

Wrong AMAZO. And if you're going by THAT AMAZO, THAT AMAZO sucked in comparison to JLU AMAZO.


And because the nerd kid is smart enough to utilize a gun doesn't invalidate the fight. Technically, using your brain is allowed.



So, he can fly faster than the speed of light? Wow I'm impressed... That Android could do that too.
But Green Lantern flies across the Galaxy, surly he most be able to travel faster than the speed of light too.
Circumventing the luminal barrier and shattering it physically are two WAAAAAAY different things.


Don't know how strong he is...

Only the judgment of God himself, and proclaimed to be the most powerful being in the universe.



Ok, kewl ability...

"Kewl" ability indeed.

[Sloth7d]

Goku is a hero to some people so he'll never lose.
People can't accept that he can lose and will think up 100 stupid reason why he can, just like many people say Batman can beat anyone with Prep-time or build a instant kill gun. :(
:o Sorry,but I'm one of those people who think the Z-fighters own all.
Not cause anyone of them are my heroes or anything. It's just I really DO think the Z-warriors are overpowered, and that it would take a god to even give them a challenge.

I hope that doesn't change anyones perception of me, though I know it will.

[Leto Atrides]

Other people are ludicrously owerpowered. Case-in-point Superman, under some writers.

[LouFerignoDemon]

:o Sorry,but I'm one of those people who think the Z-fighters own all.
Not cause anyone of them are my heroes or anything. It's just I really DO think the Z-warriors are overpowered, and that it would take a god to even give them a challenge.

I hope that doesn't change anyones perception of me, though I know it will.

It's that whole, "I think that it would take a god to even give them a challenge thing" when some of the feats they've done are pretty minor in comparison.

[Warhammer]

At least you were honest. :(

[Sloth7d]

It's that whole, "I think that it would take a god to even give them a challenge thing" when some of the feats they've done are pretty minor in comparison.
You think killing a lord of worlds and out shining a supreme kai in power is minor?
Or launching planet destroying waves? Or moving FTL? Or beating someone up in the form of a candyball?
I guess I'm the only one.......but then again most people will disagree.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Other people are ludicrously owerpowered. Case-in-point Superman, under some writers.

superman prime and pre crisis to be exact

[LouFerignoDemon]

You think killing a lord of worlds and out shining a supreme kai in power is minor?
Or launching planet destroying waves? Or moving FTL? Or beating someone up in the form of a candyball?
I guess I'm the only one.......but then again most people will disagree.

Faster than light travel through circumvention of the laws of physics, so that they don't apply, against physically shattering the luminal barrier? Lame.

And the whole "smaller than the initial object, but capable of beating up larger enemies" bit was done by the Wasp. So double lame.

The Supreme Kai seemed kind of...crap. You know, since he was and all, with his inability to dictate who was more powerful, and getting his butt royally handed to him by underlings.


And if you think Superman hasn't fought people that put the entire universe in a constant threat single handedly and won? Check again.

Darkseid would make make DBZ characters WISH they only had Buu to fight on a daily basis.

[MSGohan]

The Supreme Kai seemed kind of...crap. You know, since he was and all, with his inability to dictate who was more powerful, and getting his butt royally handed to him by underlings.
By underlings??? cool you consider Buu as an underling... The characters in DB doesn't have powers like being able to erase someone out of existens. It has to be done trhough fighting. You can compare it to the old chinese Kung Fu, where it is about fighting skills and power whethere you beat your opponent. But you can't really compare a Chinese Martial Arts Master to a US Marine for example.. Ofcourse the Marine can destroy the Master, because he has guns and weapons that the Master can't do anything against...
And if you think Superman hasn't fought people that put the entire universe in a constant threat single handedly and won? Check again.
Putting the universe in a thread, by having a special ability that can destroy the universe, while they sit on their bot, yet they are unable to destroy some inferior creature (compared to the universe)?

[LouFerignoDemon]

By underlings??? cool you consider Buu as an underling... The characters in DB doesn't have powers like being able to erase someone out of existens. It has to be done trhough fighting. You can compare it to the old chinese Kung Fu, where it is about fighting skills and power whethere you beat your opponent. But you can't really compare a Chinese Martial Arts Master to a US Marine for example.. Ofcourse the Marine can destroy the Master, because he has guns and weapons that the Master can't do anything against...

Looks like I've hurt SOMEONE'S feelings.

Warhammer, why can't they just... you know... shut up or something?

And, yes, I can compare them since we're comparing people who've fought them, and using them as the basis for their feats. Because if that's the case, then you can't use magical Buu, since he's so powerful, and can destroy planets, and can use insane amounts of energy to breach dimensional barriers.

Putting the universe in a thread, by having a special ability that can destroy the universe, while they sit on their bot, yet they are unable to destroy some inferior creature (compared to the universe)?

And if you think that's Darkseid, then you REALLY need to review him.

[MSGohan]

And, yes, I can compare them since we're comparing people who've fought them, and using them as the basis for their feats. Because if that's the case, then you can't use magical Buu, since he's so powerful, and can destroy planets, and can use insane amounts of energy to breach dimensional barriers.
There is a difference between using a sword or a machine gun in a Martials Arts fight. I was refering to the fact that ppl always mentions, that Superman can just "think you away" and stuff like that. I didn't refer to that Superman's punches is so hard that they easily can wreck planets...

[LouFerignoDemon]

There is a difference between using a sword or a Machine in a Martials Arts fight. I was refering to the fact that ppl always mentions, that Superman can just "think you away" and stuff like that. I didn't refer to that Superman's punches is so hard that they easily can wreck planets...

But it ISN'T a martial arts fight. It's a fight, fight. And like most things in the DBZ/Marvel/DC universes, in a fight fight, anything goes. Magic, black holes, gods, goats, shotguns, everything. So if you're going to assume that Vegeta, Goku, Mystic Gohan (who could've been cooler, but wasn't) or Piccolo (who WAS the coolest) would be fighting it like a tournament, rather than an apocalyptic threat (which it would be if it were all out), then they're definitely going to get creamed by someone like Superman or Buu, or Darkseid, or Galactus, or something.


And really, a machine is basically the more intelligent version of the sword, so there's no difference when it comes down to using a weapon at all.

[MSGohan]

You always mis the points when you study Physics?

[LouFerignoDemon]

You always mis the points when you study Physics?


Hardly. Though, like everyone else, I do confuse a number or two once in the while.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Don't know how strong he (Spectre) is...

Spectre is the wrath of God (the mader God is the more power Spectre get), he works on a multiversal scale, and if at 100% (basicly the Presence/ God) he would be able to destroy everything in the DC multiveres.

When Prime beat him he had the power to undo galaxies.

[Sloth7d]

Faster than light travel through circumvention of the laws of physics, so that they don't apply, against physically shattering the luminal barrier? Lame.
Opinion=above statement
And the whole "smaller than the initial object, but capable of beating up larger enemies" bit was done by the Wasp. So double lame.
Nonsense. Utter nonsense. Wasp has never dramatically overpowered anyone while she was 1/1000th their size. Much less a candyball with no arms legs or anything.

The Supreme Kai seemed kind of...crap. You know, since he was and all, with his inability to dictate who was more powerful, and getting his butt royally handed to him by underlings.
Yet he is strong enough to beat Frieza in maybe a few hits. And if you consider Dabura an underling your wrong. He's more like a right hand knight. Not to mention he is a supreme kai who's role is abouve the lord of worlds and the grand Kai.


And if you think Superman hasn't fought people that put the entire universe in a constant threat single handedly and won? Check again.

Darkseid would make make DBZ characters WISH they only had Buu to fight on a daily basis.
What, so they can have a challenge?
I'm not convinced my friend.:o

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

vegata comming to earth may not win just because he might not be durible enought to last with superman. he may have the power to cause damage to the planet butif superman doesnt get ko'd after that then its over for vegeta. but if we are talking about after training in 450+ times earths gravity and all his training in space. not to mention hes is at ssj2, then supes looses because superman will get pounded to death

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm not convinced my friend.:o


Don't be convinced. But before you go on and solidify it, make sure you know more on the subject.


Faster than light travel? Not opinion. Fact. The only way to pass the speed of light is to circumvent it somehow. This definitely goes double for instantaneous movement, which would literally have to remove someone from space and time, and place them somewhere else in it right away.

Superman Pre-Crisis had no ability to warp speed or time that way, he simply crashed right on through it.

As for the Wasp thing. Call it nonsense if you want. But before you do, make sure you read an issue with her in it previous to Civil War where she actually uses her fists. Her wasps stings alone can bring down entire rooms and buildings.

So when you go with your example of "small but still powerful" remember the Wasp. Because to say she's some lightweight is utter blasphemous ignorance.


And yet the Supreme Kai was STILL a panzy who got his rear handed to him. Where Dabura beat him and a super undertrained Gohan, but that was all he could do, since Fat Buu was capable of killing him, and all the characters that emerged in fights after that were more powerful than Fat Buu aside from Vegeta and lesser characters.


And anybody who really knows comic Darkseid (yeah, it's important that you KNOW comic Darkseid) would definitely know just how powerful he is. Guy who moves solar systems with willpower alone, and who's powers are only limited by sheer willpower, who can move through time and space with no hinderance at all.

[LouFerignoDemon]

vegata comming to earth may not win just because he might not be durible enought to last with superman. he may have the power to cause damage to the planet butif superman doesnt get ko'd after that then its over for vegeta. but if we are talking about after training in 450+ times earths gravity and all his training in space. not to mention hes is at ssj2, then supes looses because superman will get pounded to death


Superman's comparative strength to a human of just normal training would've meant he had to be on a planet with gravity some 200k times that of Earth's gravity.

[Sloth7d]

Don't be convinced. But before you go on and solidify it, make sure you know more on the subject.


Faster than light travel? Not opinion. Fact. The only way to pass the speed of light is to circumvent it somehow. This definitely goes double for instantaneous movement, which would literally have to remove someone from space and time, and place them somewhere else in it right away.
But these laws do not aply to fictional characters.

Superman Pre-Crisis had no ability to warp speed or time that way, he simply crashed right on through it.

As for the Wasp thing. Call it nonsense if you want. But before you do, make sure you read an issue with her in it previous to Civil War where she actually uses her fists.
You hardly see her fight at all
Her wasps stings alone can bring down entire rooms and buildings.


So when you go with your example of "small but still powerful" remember the Wasp. Because to say she's some lightweight is utter blasphemous ignorance.
uh huh......

And yet the Supreme Kai was STILL a panzy who got his rear handed to him. Where Dabura beat him and a super undertrained Gohan, but that was all he could do, since Fat Buu was capable of killing him, and all the characters that emerged in fights after that were more powerful than Fat Buu aside from Vegeta and lesser characters.
And Buu and Dabura are weak?

And anybody who really knows comic Darkseid (yeah, it's important that you KNOW comic Darkseid) would definitely know just how powerful he is. Guy who moves solar systems with willpower alone, and who's powers are only limited by sheer willpower, who can move through time and space with no hinderance at all.
What does this have to do with him being stronger than Buu?
.......

[LouFerignoDemon]

But these laws do not aply to fictional characters.

They do when you have to compare them inside of the same universe. And since DBZ's universe has little to no definition on the subject, and the only note of faster than light travel seems to be his Instantaneous movement whatevermajig, and Superman's is the only universe that has given this some form of definitions, that's the comparison.



You hardly see her fight at all

That doesn't excuse the truth.

uh huh......

Once again, disclaim it all you want, but read the comics first before you do.

And Buu and Dabura are weak?

Seeing how they're basically the bodybags by the end of the arc. Actually, by like half way through the arc.


What does this have to do with him being stronger than Buu?[/quote]
.......

Dude, seriously, you've got some serious thought potential. Don't just go and blindly blow it by not thinking.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Superman's comparative strength to a human of just normal training would've meant he had to be on a planet with gravity some 200k times that of Earth's gravity.

so why couldnt he knock out doomsday? is doomsday more durable then a universe? why didnt supes use his fight speed against him? is doomsday ftl too? doomsday wouldnt even touch ssj2 vegeta. but like i said superman wins this thread. but if we are talking "current" vegeta and "current" superman then supes doesnt stand a chance

[LouFerignoDemon]

so why couldnt he knock out doomsday? is doomsday more durable then a universe? why didnt supes use his fight speed against him? is doomsday ftl too? doomsday wouldnt even touch ssj2 vegeta. but like i said superman wins this thread. but if we are talking "current" vegeta and "current" superman then supes doesnt stand a chance


Superman has said it before. Fans have said it before. Comic writers have said it before.


If Superman truly ever went all out on ANY enemy on Earth, he would probably end up destroying it. His strength would cause concussive force WAY too powerful for people around him to survive in. And even if he DID use all of his speed, it wouldn't do a damn bit of difference, since Doomsday's speed was comparable to the Flash's.

Doomsday is literally unkillable. His strength has few to compare to, being capable of lifting several hundred tons of things. If you want to be a fanboy and put people that are not in someone's strength range and say they'll win, go for it. Doomsday, Darkseid, and people like them are simply there to BE undefeatable.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Superman has said it before. Fans have said it before. Comic writers have said it before.


If Superman truly ever went all out on ANY enemy on Earth, he would probably end up destroying it. His strength would cause concussive force WAY too powerful for people around him to survive in. And even if he DID use all of his speed, it wouldn't do a damn bit of difference, since Doomsday's speed was comparable to the Flash's.

Doomsday is literally unkillable. His strength has few to compare to, being capable of lifting several hundred tons of things. If you want to be a fanboy and put people that are not in someone's strength range and say they'll win, go for it. Doomsday, Darkseid, and people like them are simply there to BE undefeatable.

so superman killed doomsday without using his full strenght? that means doomsday isnt that durible. also he weakest for of vegeta going all out better yet not going all out can destroy the whole eatrh to bits. and ssj2 vegeta can follow the flashes movement with ease. so it comes down to who is the better fight.

[Warhammer]

Looks like I've hurt SOMEONE'S feelings.

Warhammer, why can't they just... you know... shut up or something?

And, yes, I can compare them since we're comparing people who've fought them, and using them as the basis for their feats. Because if that's the case, then you can't use magical Buu, since he's so powerful, and can destroy planets, and can use insane amounts of energy to breach dimensional barriers.



And if you think that's Darkseid, then you REALLY need to review him.

It will never end. :(

[LouFerignoDemon]

so superman killed doomsday without using his full strenght? that means doomsday isnt that durible. also he weakest for of vegeta going all out better yet not going all out can destroy the whole eatrh to bits. and ssj2 vegeta can follow the flashes movement with ease. so it comes down to who is the better fight.


I could beat you to death with my fists without NEARLY using my full strength. So that point was just shot into the realm of invalid.

And... again. Someone making the case for "fighting talent makes them better." They'd have to be in the same RANGE OF STRENGTH AND DURABILITY for that to matter, which they are simply not. Superman's dexterity easily puts them down. Where they can only fight for a few hours or whatnot before starting to lose energy, Superman could fight for DAYS.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

I could beat you to death with my fists without NEARLY using my full strength. So that point was just shot into the realm of invalid.

And... again. Someone making the case for "fighting talent makes them better." They'd have to be in the same RANGE OF STRENGTH AND DURABILITY for that to matter, which they are simply not. Superman's dexterity easily puts them down. Where they can only fight for a few hours or whatnot before starting to lose energy, Superman could fight for DAYS.

thats because dbz was more about the most power then brute strength, therefore they never really dwelled on strength alone even though they are very strong. they have the power to destroy galaxies and are faster then light. they can withstand blows that could destroy the earth. vegeta can fight at super speed in his base form at 450 times earths gravity, now if he turned ssj2, then you can times that by 100. and ssj4 by who knows what. so supes brute strength =/> then ssj2 vegeta vegetas other powers >>>> supermans speed : superman>(in a race) ssj2 vegeta but in a fight vegeta > than superman. fighting ability: vegeta in every way

[LouFerignoDemon]

thats because dbz was more about the most power then brute strength, therefore they never really dwelled on strength alone even though they are very strong. they have the power to destroy galaxies and are faster then light. they can withstand blows that could destroy the earth. vegeta can fight at super speed in his base form at 450 times earths gravity, now if he turned ssj2, then you can times that by 100. and ssj4 by who knows what. so supes brute strength =/> then ssj2 vegeta vegetas other powers >>>> supermans speed : superman>(in a race) ssj2 vegeta but in a fight vegeta > than superman. fighting ability: vegeta in every way

Planets, sure, Solar Systems I'll barely tolerate, Galaxies? No. None of them have demonstrated faster than light travel outside of instant movement techniques. If you can get someone to PROVE they could, I'll retract that statement.

So as it stands, Vegeta would be the same speed with Superman I'll say (because I'm nice), Strength would be easily in superman's favor, and at that point, because of durability factors, fighting ability, once again, means very little.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Planets, sure, Solar Systems I'll barely tolerate, Galaxies? No. None of them have demonstrated faster than light travel outside of instant movement techniques. If you can get someone to PROVE they could, I'll retract that statement.

So as it stands, Vegeta would be the same speed with Superman I'll say (because I'm nice), Strength would be easily in superman's favor, and at that point, because of durability factors, fighting ability, once again, means very little.

during the cell saga..cell said that his speed was just as fast as i.t during the battle. but yet cell couldnt keep up with ssj2 gohan. put it like this. can doomsday blow up the earth in one punch? can superman do that? maybe, but vegata can with his power can do that without trying and if he did try ,just like cell did, he could destroy the galaxy. **** broly did it. so can super man take multiple hits with those?

[SSJ4_Mikael]

during the cell saga..cell said that his speed was just as fast as i.t during the battle. but yet cell couldnt keep up with ssj2 gohan. put it like this. can doomsday blow up the earth in one punch? can superman do that? maybe, but vegata can with his power can do that without trying and if he did try ,just like cell did, he could destroy the galaxy. **** broly did it. so can super man take multiple hits with those?
SSJ2 Seru stated that he just could destroy the solar system.

He was not really faster than Gokou´s instant transmission, just faster than Gokou´s mind. After he teleported, before he could think, Seru was there.

Broly destroying a Galaxy is non-canon, and if it werent it would be a joke.

As you know there is four Galaxies in the DB Universe, there were many blast´s fired by Gojiita, Omega Shenron -- Which was far greater than Burori´s power (more than four times greater). So if that blast ever hit anything it would destroy the universe.

[LouFerignoDemon]

during the cell saga..cell said that his speed was just as fast as i.t during the battle. but yet cell couldnt keep up with ssj2 gohan. put it like this. can doomsday blow up the earth in one punch? can superman do that? maybe, but vegata can with his power can do that without trying and if he did try ,just like cell did, he could destroy the galaxy. **** broly did it. so can super man take multiple hits with those?

Actually, all the Z characters had to charge serious energy to destroy planets, taking time uninterrupted usually, and couldn't destroy a planet through punches. That sort of power is dealt out to people like Beta Ray Bill, who is easily inside of, and most likely weaker, than Superman.


Hell, Buu destroyed planets one at a time, and had to recharge afterward.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Actually, all the Z characters had to charge serious energy to destroy planets, taking time uninterrupted usually, and couldn't destroy a planet through punches. That sort of power is dealt out to people like Beta Ray Bill, who is easily inside of, and most likely weaker, than Superman.


Hell, Buu destroyed planets one at a time, and had to recharge afterward.
Boo never destroyed a planet canon, how can you tell?
Havent you read the manga.

Seru clearly states that he can obliterate the solar-system. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch07/350618.gif)

[Keollyn]

SSJ2 Seru stated that he just could destroy the solar system.

He was not really faster than Gokou´s instant transmission, just faster than Gokou´s mind. After he teleported, before he could think, Seru was there.

Broly destroying a Galaxy is non-canon, and if it werent it would be a joke.

As you know there is four Galaxies in the DB Universe, there were many blast´s fired by Gojiita, Omega Shenron -- Which was far greater than Burori´s power (more than four times greater). So if that blast ever hit anything it would destroy the universe.

*cough*horse*****cough*

Sorry. Let me clear my throat.

Can you prove Gogeta and Yi Xing Long are four times more powerful than Burori. Oh, since, I dunno... he destroyed that galaxy in a psuedo-Supa-Saiyajin form....

Waits for yet another feeble response

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

SSJ2 Seru stated that he just could destroy the solar system.

He was not really faster than Gokou´s instant transmission, just faster than Gokou´s mind. After he teleported, before he could think, Seru was there.

Broly destroying a Galaxy is non-canon, and if it werent it would be a joke.

As you know there is four Galaxies in the DB Universe, there were many blast´s fired by Gojiita, Omega Shenron -- Which was far greater than Burori´s power (more than four times greater). So if that blast ever hit anything it would destroy the universe.

yet frieza destroyed planet vegeta with one finger without breaking a sweat in his weakest form. ssj goku defeated freisa in his final form practically easy and ssj goku and perfect cell are way stronger then ssj goku whrn he just transformed. and buu could destroy cell with one move without even trying. therefore buu can destroy a solar system. basically by destroying the sun if nothing else

[MSGohan]

Broly destroying a Galaxy is non-canon, and if it werent it would be a joke.

As you know there is four Galaxies in the DB Universe, there were many blast´s fired by Gojiita, Omega Shenron -- Which was far greater than Burori´s power (more than four times greater). So if that blast ever hit anything it would destroy the universe.

1. I only heard about this only 4-galaxies in the anime in the US-dubbed version. In the Japanese version they don't say Northern galaxy, but rather the Nothern part of the universe. Do they say 4 galaxies in the manga?

2. You're the one who keep insisting on people only and ONLY should stay with the Manga and not anything else like movies or the anime, now you talk about GT? O_o

3. Besides they control their powers, if they didn't, then why didn't the planet got destroyed in the Cell or Boo saga, by a simple energy blast, which was far more powerfull than Vegeta's earlier blasts where he could destroy planets...

[Sloth7d]

1. I only heard about this only 4-galaxies in the anime in the US-dubbed version. In the Japanese version they don't say Northern galaxy, but rather the Nothern part of the universe. Do they say 4 galaxies in the manga?

2. You're the one who keep insisting on people only and ONLY should stay with the Manga and not anything else like movies or the anime, now you talk about GT? O_o

3. Besides they control their powers, if they didn't, then why didn't the planet got destroyed in the Cell or Boo saga, by a simple energy blast, which was far more powerfull than Vegeta's earlier blasts where he could destroy planets...
Exactly. I never understood why people don't understand this.

[param]

Superman only stands a chance upto Ssj2 era in DBZ. Anything after that is over kill Especialy for the Post Crisis since he cannot survive Solar System busters head on. Supes 1M is a different story and can pretty much challenge Kid Buu who once vaped a galaxy. Ssj4+ levels are overkill even for Supes 1M, only PC supes could take such power.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Boo never destroyed a planet canon, how can you tell?
Havent you read the manga.

Seru clearly states that he can obliterate the solar-system. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch07/350618.gif)


And I technically can destroy an entire city city, after constructing an atomic class weapon.


He had to CHARGE all sorts of energy. It wasn't, "Hey look, solar system gone!!" And it was done that way. If such were the case, he definitely wouldn't have had such a hard time against Goku or Gohan.

[LouFerignoDemon]

yet frieza destroyed planet vegeta with one finger without breaking a sweat in his weakest form. ssj goku defeated freisa in his final form practically easy and ssj goku and perfect cell are way stronger then ssj goku whrn he just transformed. and buu could destroy cell with one move without even trying. therefore buu can destroy a solar system. basically by destroying the sun if nothing else

Once again, after serious charge up of energy. If I wanted to do things of feats that just go without the explanation of why, Superman Prime can just throw planets at these guys, and then nail them with his faster than light travel punches.

[LouFerignoDemon]

1. I only heard about this only 4-galaxies in the anime in the US-dubbed version. In the Japanese version they don't say Northern galaxy, but rather the Nothern part of the universe. Do they say 4 galaxies in the manga?

2. You're the one who keep insisting on people only and ONLY should stay with the Manga and not anything else like movies or the anime, now you talk about GT? O_o

3. Besides they control their powers, if they didn't, then why didn't the planet got destroyed in the Cell or Boo saga, by a simple energy blast, which was far more powerfull than Vegeta's earlier blasts where he could destroy planets...


Agreed. GT should NOT be considered in this.

And you're right about the control. Besides, if they just let their powers go unchecked, they'd probably blow up anyway. So control is definitely in there.

[Sloth7d]

600 post! Yay!

[saiyan jedi]

Once again, after serious charge up of energy. If I wanted to do things of feats that just go without the explanation of why, Superman Prime can just throw planets at these guys, and then nail them with his faster than light travel punches.
vegeta destoryed a planet with only two fingers almost instantly.
frieza destroyed many planets with very little charge time
boo destroyed earth with a small blast,with no charge time

[MSGohan]

If I wanted to do things of feats that just go without the explanation of why, Superman Prime can just throw planets at these guys, and then nail them with his faster than light travel punches.
As if hitting them with "rocks" is going to hurt them...

[Sloth7d]

I know someone who can beat superman.
This message board describes it all.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=915410&topic=29568520&page=0

Sora would pwn him.
:up:

[Sloth7d]

fix'd it.

[Sloth7d]

As if hitting them with "rocks" is going to hurt them...
Not a bit.

[ghostrider4ever]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mtkV_yz4oS4&search=goku%20vs%20superman

Sloth7d you have to see this battle. You are going to like superman afterwards. Goku didn't turn super saiyan.

[ghostrider4ever]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Y8or8CxKMQ&search=goku%20vs%20superman

You guys are gonna like this battle as well. Enjoy the fight.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

1. I only heard about this only 4-galaxies in the anime in the US-dubbed version. In the Japanese version they don't say Northern galaxy, but rather the Nothern part of the universe. Do they say 4 galaxies in the manga?


Sothen, Western and Easten are also mentioned. -- They said that evry galaxy had their own Kaioshin, and there was five of them (four including fat one)

2. You're the one who keep insisting on people only and ONLY should stay with the Manga and not anything else like movies or the anime, now you talk about GT? O_o

I said if.


3. Besides they control their powers, if they didn't, then why didn't the planet got destroyed in the Cell or Boo saga, by a simple energy blast, which was far more powerfull than Vegeta's earlier blasts where he could destroy planets...

Yeah, and Majin Boo wouldent throw so much power into a blast it would be able to destroy a planet (while fighing FpSSJ3 Gokou).
It isn´t actually controlled, since the lager the explotion is the more power is in the blast, and the flames would consume the earth.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Y8or8CxKMQ&search=goku%20vs%20superman

You guys are gonna like this battle as well. Enjoy the fight.
Gokou is cooler than Superman ever will be -- And probobly just Prime and Pre-crisis would take on the Z-fightier´s.

[MSGohan]

Sothen, Western and Easten are also mentioned. -- They said that evry galaxy had their own Kaioshin, and there was five of them (four including fat one)
I couldn't find this info? Where do you get it from?
Yeah, and Majin Boo wouldent throw so much power into a blast it would be able to destroy a planet (while fighing FpSSJ3 Gokou).
It isn´t actually controlled, since the lager the explotion is the more power is in the blast, and the flames would consume the earth.
There is a difference between a controlled and more dens energy blast (like Frieza's lazer attack), and a more destructive one. Those planet shattering attack have huge area effect (how would it otherwise destroy a planet). but is they use such attacks against one person that would a whole lot a waste of energy, because it's not concentrated like if it was a smaller blast where all of the blast could hit the enemy.
Nappa destroyed that huge area (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume18/Db18Ch09/DBZ%20120.jpg) with his fingers and with ease. But surely he used more powers to attack Goku here (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume19/Db19ch09/DBZ%20127.jpg). But that blast didn't have huge area effect (like some others that explode at the target...).

[MSGohan]

Gokou is cooler than Superman ever will be -- And probobly just Prime and Pre-crisis would take on the Z-fightier´s.
The Goku we in Manga seems a little crappy, because his strengh and speed never is stated as definite, and when there is something about the those factors, there is inconsistensies, like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume36/Db36ch08/360809.gif) and he had to go super to lift it. Yet later he easly lifts about 1 cubic meter of the hardest metal in universe (A cubic meter of gold will weighs 19.3 tons.), so surly this metal much wieght more than 20 tons, yet he seems to be lifting that with ease with 1 hand (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch07/400702.gif).
You can't even say anything about SSJ Gotenks speed (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch10/401008.jpg), because it's never stated how long it took him to fly that distance (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch10/401009.jpg).
But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

[The Sage]

If it's Vegeta when he first arrives, then Superman wins easily. If it's Vegeta during the Cell Saga, particularly after he achieves his Super Vegeta form, then I bid Superman goodbye and good luck.

[MSGohan]

If it's Vegeta when he first arrives, then Superman wins easily. If it's Vegeta during the Cell Saga, particularly after he achieves his Super Vegeta form, then I bid Superman goodbye and good luck.
As there are different levels of Vegeta, there also are different levels of Superman...
If we're talking abut the Superman from the Animated series or JLU, then it may be an intens battle. The victory could go to either of them. But Vegeta will be beaten by a stronger form of Superman, like the Pre-Crisis one for example.

[Sloth7d]

Unless we're talking about SSjVegeta, then he pwns all forms of Superman.
He may have to turn ascended saiyan to beat PreCrisis Supes, though.

[Warhammer]

As there are different levels of Vegeta, there also are different levels of Superman...
If we're talking abut the Superman from the Animated series or JLU, then it may be an intens battle. The victory could go to either of them. But Vegeta will be beaten by a stronger form of Superman, like the Pre-Crisis one for example.

You speak the truth. :up: :up:

[ssj4 vegetto]

the first time everyone is in agrement

[Leto Atrides]

But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_telekinesis

Basically he makes a big old force-field around things, and interacts with the field and not the object itself. It's presumably involuntary.

It's complete Deus ex Machina, but so is alot of Dragonball and DC Comics.

[MSGohan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_telekinesis

Basically he makes a big old force-field around things, and interacts with the field and not the object itself. It's presumably involuntary.

It's complete Deus ex Machina, but so is alot of Dragonball and DC Comics.
Well that would make sense of how they can lift houses. But it is stated,
Subsequently all fictional characters who display the above abilities are principally given the ability of tactile telekinesis by default even without the creators having to say so.
Itn't that ability even mentioned in the comics? Then how can someone just say that they have the ability to do so? Maybe the writers didn't even think of the object collapsing under it's own weight, when someone carries it??

[buutenks]

The Goku we in Manga seems a little crappy, because his strengh and speed never is stated as definite, and when there is something about the those factors, there is inconsistensies, like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume36/Db36ch08/360809.gif) and he had to go super to lift it. Yet later he easly lifts about 1 cubic meter of the hardest metal in universe (A cubic meter of gold will weighs 19.3 tons.), so surly this metal much wieght more than 20 tons, yet he seems to be lifting that with ease with 1 hand (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch07/400702.gif).
You can't even say anything about SSJ Gotenks speed (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch10/401008.jpg), because it's never stated how long it took him to fly that distance (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch10/401009.jpg).
But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

I agree.

And ssj Trunks destroyed Freeza(who can survive the explosion of a planet) with a small ki blast,that proves that their small ki blasts have more power then the explosion of a planet.

Edit:And Goku lifted that 2 meter wide rock,which would weigh around 15-20 tons and he lifted it like it was nothing and he was holding it like it wasn't even there.

I have to say that Toriyama didn't really thought of what Goku did when he was weaker and all that.

For e.g. it takes(in the manga) normal Goku without flying nowhere near his max speed,3-6 minutes to get from the tournament to where Babi-di's ship was,now it takes ssj Trunks and ssj Goten(and they really wanted to get there fast) about an hour or two to get there,talk about inconcitency.

Toriyama didn't really care how much Goku can lift,or if he made Goku in one scene weaker then when he's weaker and all that.

When Goku first came to Namek he traveled over a couple of islands in one second,or probably faster then one second seeing how Krillin and Vegeta didn't sensed him and Reccom's and the other two's scouter didn't picked up Goku moving,so he must've went faster then one second.

Now this Goku has a power level way weaker then ssj Trunks,so you see,Troiyama didn't care much about dbz,he made it to be there.

So trying to prove their speed or strength is pointless,because it was never stated.

[buutenks]

As there are different levels of Vegeta, there also are different levels of Superman...
If we're talking abut the Superman from the Animated series or JLU, then it may be an intens battle. The victory could go to either of them. But Vegeta will be beaten by a stronger form of Superman, like the Pre-Crisis one for example.

Animated Sups is weak,he loses badly to saiyan saga Vegeta.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well that would make sense of how they can lift houses. But it is stated,

Itn't that ability even mentioned in the comics? Then how can someone just say that they have the ability to do so? Maybe the writers didn't even think of the object collapsing under it's own weight, when someone carries it??

The only person, to my knowledge, that was stated to actually utilize tactile telekinesis was Superboy post crisis.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I agree.

And ssj Trunks destroyed Freeza(who can survive the explosion of a planet) with a small ki blast,that proves that their small ki blasts have more power then the explosion of a planet.



Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

[LouFerignoDemon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_telekinesis

Basically he makes a big old force-field around things, and interacts with the field and not the object itself. It's presumably involuntary.

It's complete Deus ex Machina, but so is alot of Dragonball and DC Comics.

Not a Deus-ex Machina. Just a really easy way of explaining something that's probable off.


A Deus-ex Machina would be a no-powered Superman punching out Doomsday.

[LouFerignoDemon]

The Goku we in Manga seems a little crappy, because his strengh and speed never is stated as definite, and when there is something about the those factors, there is inconsistensies, like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume36/Db36ch08/360809.gif) and he had to go super to lift it. Yet later he easly lifts about 1 cubic meter of the hardest metal in universe (A cubic meter of gold will weighs 19.3 tons.), so surly this metal much wieght more than 20 tons, yet he seems to be lifting that with ease with 1 hand (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch07/400702.gif).
You can't even say anything about SSJ Gotenks speed (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch10/401008.jpg), because it's never stated how long it took him to fly that distance (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch10/401009.jpg).
But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.


Not exactly true.


Titanium is far harder than iron and lead, yet is only a mere fraction of the weight.

[Warhammer]

Wow, Mistress.
You are a smart girl. :up:

[Ultra-Herald9]

Wow, Mistress.
You are a smart girl. :up:

Tell me about it. Next time I have a question about physics i'm askin her.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

Exactly. This is a reason why Superman's heat vision is so effective cause not only is it just heat but it also packs massive concussive force(enough to sweep Doomsday off his feet) and Supes can gauge how much heat or force he can put in to it. This makes him a huge threat from afar in battle even against invunerable enemies.

[buutenks]

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

Actually Trunks just focused his energy in that blast so it will destroy Freeza,I didn't meant that all their ki blasts have that much power,I mean that when they want they can focus their ki into the blast so it ill have more power but it wont to much to the area around it.

[MSGohan]

Not exactly true.


Titanium is far harder than iron and lead, yet is only a mere fraction of the weight.

Well that's true, I didn't think about that. But I only got the impression that it is very dens, because Goku can tell that it is hard by hitting softly at it (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch07/400702.gif). If that wasn't a dens material you wouldn't be able to tell...

[MSGohan]

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.
What's your point? buutenks states,
(...),that proves that their small ki blasts have more power then the explosion of a planet.

Which means that their small ki blasts is MORE POWERFULL than a planetary explosion (not that a planetary explosion is weak..). He never said that the ki blast has more amount of energy of an entire planet explosion, but that this is more effective.
Exactly. This is a reason why Superman's heat vision is so effective cause not only is it just heat but it also packs massive concussive force(enough to sweep Doomsday off his feet) and Supes can gauge how much heat or force he can put in to it. This makes him a huge threat from afar in battle even against invunerable enemies.
Yes it is effective. There are also a couple of characters in DBZ who have this skill.

[Leto Atrides]

The only person, to my knowledge, that was stated to actually utilize tactile telekinesis was Superboy post crisis.

I think he used it actively, and then writers liked the idea and retconned it as an explanation for everybody else.

With Superboy is was a big component of his powers, and he went around purposely using it. I think with everyone else it's just an incidental thing.

[Ultra-Herald9]

The only person, to my knowledge, that was stated to actually utilize tactile telekinesis was Superboy post crisis.

Superman's energy field works the exact same way although it was never outright stated it was tactile telekinesis.

[buutenks]

Well that's true, I didn't think about that. But I only got the impression that it is very dens, because Goku can tell that it is hard by hitting softly at it (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch07/400702.gif). If that wasn't a dens material you wouldn't be able to tell...

It doesn't matter,he lifted that 15 ton rock like it wasn't even there.

And like missters said,it could be a very tough metal,but to be very light.

Though as light as it probably was,it still would have 5 tons or less.

The rock feat is much better.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Superman's energy field works the exact same way although it was never outright stated it was tactile telekinesis.

His field is reflexive, where Kon's was active.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually Trunks just focused his energy in that blast so it will destroy Freeza,I didn't meant that all their ki blasts have that much power,I mean that when they want they can focus their ki into the blast so it ill have more power but it wont to much to the area around it.

Oh, he obviously did focus his energy. I doubt anybody will actually challenge that idea. But what I'm saying that planetary destruction energy necessity definitely changes in how you actually use it. If you're going to destroy someone from the inside out, the energy required is dramatically less than if you're trying to do it from the outside. Because, from the inside, you only need enough to let the pressure just erupt from the inside out. Where, if you attack from the outside, you'd basically have to overcome something, which would require much more energy.

I'm not saying Trunk's couldn't destroy a planet. It's just that he didn't need the energy necessary to destroy a planet to destroy Frieza if he focused his energy correctly.

[buutenks]

Oh, he obviously did focus his energy. I doubt anybody will actually challenge that idea. But what I'm saying that planetary destruction energy necessity definitely changes in how you actually use it. If you're going to destroy someone from the inside out, the energy required is dramatically less than if you're trying to do it from the outside. Because, from the inside, you only need enough to let the pressure just erupt from the inside out. Where, if you attack from the outside, you'd basically have to overcome something, which would require much more energy.

I'm not saying Trunk's couldn't destroy a planet. It's just that he didn't need the energy necessary to destroy a planet to destroy Frieza if he focused his energy correctly.

Um what are you talking about?Freeza could survive the explosion of a planet,yet he was killed by a small blast.

That shows that the blast had more power then the explosion of a planet.

Edit: Ofcourse we don't know if he actually focused his energy,or he just fired a ki blast.

[LouFerignoDemon]

What's your point? buutenks states,

Which means that their small ki blasts is MORE POWERFULL than a planetary explosion (not that a planetary explosion is weak..). He never said that the ki blast has more amount of energy of an entire planet explosion, but that this is more effective.

Yes it is effective. There are also a couple of characters in DBZ who have this skill.

My point was as I said. Smaller energy needed for an inner explosion, rather than the far larger amount of energy required in an outer explosion.

And I'd definitely rethink using Buutenks as your source o' info.

Speaking of which...

Um what are you talking about?Freeza could survive the explosion of a planet,yet he was killed by a small blast.

That shows that the blast had more power then the explosion of a planet.

Edit: Ofcourse we don't know if he actually focused his energy,or he just fired a ki blast.

Reread my post, and THEN tell me that again, after explaining how you came to this conclusion that it had to have more energy than what it took to destroy a planet.

Or I could just explain it again, which will be far easier for me.

Alright, here we go!

Object A. Let's give it the mass of a car. A fairly solid car. When you shoot a nuclear rocket somewhere within fifty feet of it, what happens? (Assuming this is a super dense metalloid that can withstand several pounds of pressure per square inch). It might move a whole lot, knick up a little bit from the fall to the earth and discolor from the energy, but other than that, not much.

"Why though, Miss Beaumonte?"

Good question, Tom. For that, we turn to the idea of pressure. See Tom, when you hit an object from the outside with some large broad force, you have one huge problem. See, the large broad force, to merely overcome the object and shatter it, must be very broad, meaning wide, with tons of power inside of it to compensate for the vast area it must have, with a massive amount of pressure to drive it. This of course, is heavily incumbered by the fact that energy in such a large spectrum tends to be far less than focused, and will dissapate a large amount of this energy, and when it hits the surface, even MORE energy will simply reflect to an area of far less pressure, such as something that isn't a surface, of course being decided just how much pressure is behind this energy. Such as, a lot of pressure will mostly likely just push an object as the energy itself tries to move around it. But this creates a much larger problem, of course. See, now we don't have enough energy to destroy this car, and so we must apply a LOT more energy just to destroy it.

"But you said that it knicked."

Ah, glad someone's paying attention, Sally. See, when the car hits the Earth, the Earth won't move out of the way, so the pressure simply stops right there, and has to divert to other directions. This now inquires through the rest of the mass, and since the rest of the mass becomes supercharged beyond it's point of tension, it moves, slightly, but it moves. Hence, creating knicks and scratches.

"But Miss Beaumonte, isn't there a far easier, efficient, and much easier way that wouldn't require the force of a nuclear weapon going off right next to the car?"

Why of course, Dean. There absolutely is. See, from an outer destructive force, like said, a lot of energy and pressure simply just does not affect the target car. However, there IS a way to make sure all of that energy and pressure could be used. See, a mass of any shape or size can be thought of as a sphere with a core. The outer parts rely on the stability of the inner parts, and so on and so forth. But let's now punch a small little hole inside of our little pet project. And inside of this hole, let's put an explosive in there, about one quarter of the power. We only really need about ten gallons of jet fuel, but I'm thinking a quarter of a city wide destructive weapon is more than enough. Anyways, for this experiment, we'll have to commit pressure to the hole we've drilled while the explosion goes off to emulate a closed environment. What happens.... Brian, who's been sleeping in class...

"Umm.. say what?"

Didn't think so.

"I can answer it!"

Go for it Pallaton.

"Since the pressure and energy have no where to go, but still are amassing inside of the object, it has to force the object outward with 100% of the effort provided, and bust apart the object."

Exactly! Gold stars all around. Except for Brian. You get the Board of Education. *Busts out a paddle with holes in it.* :mad:

[Gotenks]

I think you try to hard.

[MSGohan]

My point was as I said. Smaller energy needed for an inner explosion, rather than the far larger amount of energy required in an outer explosion.

And I'd definitely rethink using Buutenks as your source o' info.

1. "Buutenks as my source"??? I've too seen all of DBZ and I know where he was refering too. You really are negative aren't you?

2. You obviously just ignored my other comments.. *Sigh*... I do understand that it needs less but denser energy, but Trunks' attack will still be MORE POWERFULL than a planetary explosion, not saying it has more energy (never used the sentence "more energy" yet you still refer to it), just that it's BETTER.

3. Do you think we are a bunch of Physics n00bs, that understands nothing of Physics??? I know it will be energy pressure that can destroy the object in your example, but since the pressure only is exerted from one side it will only, if not enough energy presssure is exerted, push the object, by exerting a force on it, because there will be a pressure difference on the object. And if the bomb is inside the object, the explosion will create a pressure that will point outwards in 4Pi steradians. Now particles of the object won't be force in (almost) one direction like before, but all in different directions, which is what will tear the object apart.

But trying to explain the laws of physics in comic characters action is pointless, as the authors probably don't know anything about the laws, only some basics like the speed of light is the limit speed and simple stuff like that. You're trying to talk about laws of physics in DB?
Well how did Superman in the first place went INSIDE the sun and stayed, no matter how dense his body's molecylary structure (as I heard in the movies) is, he won't be able to stay inside a sun, because the 12 MK will his molecylary structure to the basics, Carbon, or even a ligther atom. The person have ad to be made of ionized He to survive in there...

Almost the same goes for the blackholes that you say Superman has squized, but this would be worse.

So you see the authors don't think about the laws of physics, they just make stuff up (even if it's impossible for the person doing) make the person do it to make the person loke really powerfull...

[buutenks]

My point was as I said. Smaller energy needed for an inner explosion, rather than the far larger amount of energy required in an outer explosion.

And I'd definitely rethink using Buutenks as your source o' info.

Speaking of which...



Reread my post, and THEN tell me that again, after explaining how you came to this conclusion that it had to have more energy than what it took to destroy a planet.

Or I could just explain it again, which will be far easier for me.

Alright, here we go!

Object A. Let's give it the mass of a car. A fairly solid car. When you shoot a nuclear rocket somewhere within fifty feet of it, what happens? (Assuming this is a super dense metalloid that can withstand several pounds of pressure per square inch). It might move a whole lot, knick up a little bit from the fall to the earth and discolor from the energy, but other than that, not much.

"Why though, Miss Beaumonte?"

Good question, Tom. For that, we turn to the idea of pressure. See Tom, when you hit an object from the outside with some large broad force, you have one huge problem. See, the large broad force, to merely overcome the object and shatter it, must be very broad, meaning wide, with tons of power inside of it to compensate for the vast area it must have, with a massive amount of pressure to drive it. This of course, is heavily incumbered by the fact that energy in such a large spectrum tends to be far less than focused, and will dissapate a large amount of this energy, and when it hits the surface, even MORE energy will simply reflect to an area of far less pressure, such as something that isn't a surface, of course being decided just how much pressure is behind this energy. Such as, a lot of pressure will mostly likely just push an object as the energy itself tries to move around it. But this creates a much larger problem, of course. See, now we don't have enough energy to destroy this car, and so we must apply a LOT more energy just to destroy it.

"But you said that it knicked."

Ah, glad someone's paying attention, Sally. See, when the car hits the Earth, the Earth won't move out of the way, so the pressure simply stops right there, and has to divert to other directions. This now inquires through the rest of the mass, and since the rest of the mass becomes supercharged beyond it's point of tension, it moves, slightly, but it moves. Hence, creating knicks and scratches.

"But Miss Beaumonte, isn't there a far easier, efficient, and much easier way that wouldn't require the force of a nuclear weapon going off right next to the car?"

Why of course, Dean. There absolutely is. See, from an outer destructive force, like said, a lot of energy and pressure simply just does not affect the target car. However, there IS a way to make sure all of that energy and pressure could be used. See, a mass of any shape or size can be thought of as a sphere with a core. The outer parts rely on the stability of the inner parts, and so on and so forth. But let's now punch a small little hole inside of our little pet project. And inside of this hole, let's put an explosive in there, about one quarter of the power. We only really need about ten gallons of jet fuel, but I'm thinking a quarter of a city wide destructive weapon is more than enough. Anyways, for this experiment, we'll have to commit pressure to the hole we've drilled while the explosion goes off to emulate a closed environment. What happens.... Brian, who's been sleeping in class...

"Umm.. say what?"

Didn't think so.

"I can answer it!"

Go for it Pallaton.

"Since the pressure and energy have no where to go, but still are amassing inside of the object, it has to force the object outward with 100% of the effort provided, and bust apart the object."

Exactly! Gold stars all around. Except for Brian. You get the Board of Education. *Busts out a paddle with holes in it.* :mad:

First don't apply science to fiction.

Trunks destroyed Freeza's skin with a ki blast and that skin can take the explosion fo a planet without being ripped.

That shows that his blast had more power then the explosion of a planet because it could rip the skin of a guy who's skin couldn't be broken by the explosion of a planet.

Is it that hard to understand.

And second I have the whole dbz manga,I've seen all the movies and I saw almost every episode.

So I'll give you a tip,don't use science to explain what a character did.

Edit:You're trying to hard,no one cares what energy it had or all that,who sees it will say that the blast had more power then the explosion of a planet and that's it,you don't need to bring scientists here to explain it or all that because no one cares.
And because you can't apply real life things to fictional things.

But if you're at it,explain this:
How in the world can a human run faster then the eye could see.

Do you think that Toriyama had books all around him?Nohe just made them how he wanted.

If I want I could make a character to destroy a planet with a shotgun,yes a normal shotgun,how do you explain that?

It's pretty simple to make,I just make a guy to shoot at a planet and the planet explodes,or if I want I could make a normal can,yes a normal cat to go through a black hole and then to come out wihtout loosing a hair.
How do you explain that?

If I remember PC Sups was lifting galaxies,how in the world could someone even lift a galaxy?It's made out of gas and all that,so how could he.

So next time,don't bring real life stuff into a fictional world.

[buutenks]

1. "Buutenks as my source"??? I've too seen all of DBZ and I know where he was refering too. You really are negative aren't you?

2. You obviously just ignored my other comments.. *Sigh*... I do understand that it needs less but denser energy, but Trunks' attack will still be MORE POWERFULL than a planetary explosion, not saying it has more energy (never used the sentence "more energy" yet you still refer to it), just that it's BETTER.

3. Do you think we are a bunch of Physics n00bs, that understands nothing of Physics??? I know it will be energy pressure that can destroy the object in your example, but since the pressure only is exerted from one side it will only, if not enough energy presssure is exerted, push the object, by exerting a force on it, because there will be a pressure difference on the object. And if the bomb is inside the object, the explosion will create a pressure that will point outwards in 4Pi steradians. Now particles of the object won't be force in (almost) one direction like before, but all in different directions, which is what will tear the object apart.

But trying to explain the laws of physics in comic characters action is pointless, as the authors probably don't know anything about the laws, only some basics like the speed of light is the limit speed and simple stuff like that. You're trying to talk about laws of physics in DB?
Well how did Superman in the first place went INSIDE the sun and stayed, no matter how dense his body's molecylary structure (as I heard in the movies) is, he won't be able to stay inside a sun, because the 12 MK will his molecylary structure to the basics, Carbon, or even a ligther atom. The person have ad to be made of ionized He to survive in there...

Almost the same goes for the blackholes that you say Superman has squized, but this would be worse.

So you see the authors don't think about the laws of physics, they just make stuff up (even if it's impossible for the person doing) make the person do it to make the person loke really powerfull...

I could make a character that can lift galaxies,how do you explain that?

Or Superman flying faster then light or PC Sups flying so fast that he almost destroyed the universe or who knows what crazy stuff PC Sups has done.

And to tell you the truth,I didn't even read what she/he wrote,like I care if it takes less energy to destroy something form the inside out.

And what's with the inside out thing?Did Trunks made his blast to go inside Freeza and then explode?I think not,he just fired his ki blast and Freeza was completely destroyed.

Edit:Though she probably meant that Freeza was cut in many pieces so you could see his inside,so that's what she/he probably meant.

But it still doesn't matter because Freeza was cut in half when the planet went boom and he still wasn't ripped apart,yet he was by a normal blast.

[buutenks]

I think you try to hard.

She does,it's pointless to prove something by using real life science.

In the real world,things are impossible to make,only God can make the impossible possible.

But in fiction,like I said, could make a guy to destroy a planet with a shotgun.

Or I could make a guy to punch so hard that the whole universe gets destroyed.

[ster]

Vegeta (when he first came to Earth) vs Superman.... hmm... lemme think about this one now... yep, Goku wins.

[buutenks]

Vegeta (when he first came to Earth) vs Superman.... hmm... lemme think about this one now... yep, Goku wins.

Always Goku,eh?

[MSGohan]

And to tell you the truth,I didn't even read what she/he wrote,like I care if it takes less energy to destroy something form the inside out.

And what's with the inside out thing?Did Trunks made his blast to go inside Freeza and then explode?I think not,he just fired his ki blast and Freeza was completely destroyed.

Edit:Though she probably meant that Freeza was cut in many pieces so you could see his inside,so that's what she/he probably meant.

But it still doesn't matter because Freeza was cut in half when the planet went boom and he still wasn't ripped apart,yet he was by a normal blast.
1. Well the Gluon was trying to able some scientific facs about destroying something from within or from outside, which wasn't incorrect. But the fact is Akira probably never knew about such facts (besides this a show to all not only those who understands Physics), the thought behind it seems like this: Frieza can survive a planetary explosion, but not Trunks' blast. This means that Trunks have a more powerfull attack than a planetary explosion!!!

2. The thing with destroying an object from within-thing, was probably (How I see it) another way of saying that destroying a planet isn't a big deal, because the planet explods from within, and therefore less energy is needed to destroy the planet from within then a blast that destroys the planet from outside. As for this fact, for Akira they should have blasts that destroys planets, not something like, "well their blasts can destroy a planet from within but not from outside"...

And you stated this perfectly.

[Gotenks]

She does,it's pointless to prove something by using real life science.

In the real world,things are impossible to make,only God can make the impossible possible.

But in fiction,like I said, could make a guy to destroy a planet with a shotgun.

Or I could make a guy to punch so hard that the whole universe gets destroyed.

Yeah I know. I mean she is very smart but, that world and are world are different.

[Sloth7d]

1. Well the Gluon was trying to able some scientific facs about destroying something from within or from outside, which wasn't incorrect. But the fact is Akira probably never knew about such facts (besides this a show to all not only those who understands Physics), the thought behind it seems like this: Frieza can survive a planetary explosion, but not Trunks' blast. This means that Trunks have a more powerfull attack than a planetary explosion!!!

2. The thing with destroying an object from within-thing, was probably (How I see it) another way of saying that destroying a planet isn't a big deal, because the planet explods from within, and therefore less energy is needed to destroy the planet from within then a blast that destroys the planet from outside. As for this fact, for Akira they should have blasts that destroys planets, not something like, "well their blasts can destroy a planet from within but not from outside"...

And you stated this perfectly.
The thing is Akira Toriyama never uses scientific logic.
In his head a planetary explosion can be condensed to the point of not blowing up planets, but still have the same power.

[Leto Atrides]

The thing is Akira Toriyama never uses scientific logic.
In his head a planetary explosion can be condensed to the point of not blowing up planets, but still have the same power.

I don't think he bothered to think it out at all. I think if Toriyama said something can blow up a planet, he just did it to emphasize its power. I very much doubt he was analyzing its implications. Stuff like that is not meant to be anything quantitative. It's just, "It's powerful!" more than "The chi-blast has enough power to destroy a planet, and as such can destroy anything with a lesser durability or resistance to damage."

[Sloth7d]

Yeah. I'll go with that.
Unfortunately for Akira he caused major inconsistencies with his writing, but-
He still made a kickarse anime.:D

[Warhammer]

DBZ being so far from real-world physics is the exact reason why it shouldn't even be compared to Superman.

[Sloth7d]

Unfortunately it always will be........
Atleast until the Naruto anime is complete.

[buutenks]

1. Well the Gluon was trying to able some scientific facs about destroying something from within or from outside, which wasn't incorrect. But the fact is Akira probably never knew about such facts (besides this a show to all not only those who understands Physics), the thought behind it seems like this: Frieza can survive a planetary explosion, but not Trunks' blast. This means that Trunks have a more powerfull attack than a planetary explosion!!!

2. The thing with destroying an object from within-thing, was probably (How I see it) another way of saying that destroying a planet isn't a big deal, because the planet explods from within, and therefore less energy is needed to destroy the planet from within then a blast that destroys the planet from outside. As for this fact, for Akira they should have blasts that destroys planets, not something like, "well their blasts can destroy a planet from within but not from outside"...

And you stated this perfectly.

I read a bit and I understand what she was trying to say.

It's just that science doesn't really apply in fiction.

And I still don't understand why in the world did she even said that it takes less energy to destroy something for the inside?Did Trunks sticked his ki blast in Freeza's body or something?I think not.

[LouFerignoDemon]

1. "Buutenks as my source"??? I've too seen all of DBZ and I know where he was refering too. You really are negative aren't you?

I'm a physicist, I believe the continued existance of human's is some greater beings cruel joke.

2. You obviously just ignored my other comments.. *Sigh*... I do understand that it needs less but denser energy, but Trunks' attack will still be MORE POWERFULL than a planetary explosion, not saying it has more energy (never used the sentence "more energy" yet you still refer to it), just that it's BETTER.

If I ignore one thing, I ignore all things. Hence, no I didn't. But you just contradicted yourself there. You said it takes less energy, but still requires more energy than a planetary explosion? Hardly. It simply takes LESS energy. Can Frieza pull up all his energy inside himself and hold it there as a shield? No. And when you say "MORE POWERFULL" (which is spelled without the extra "L", not trying to be horrible about this, I just want Gotenks to jump on me for that one.) you have to imply HOW it's more powerful. How is it more powerful? Does it have more energy being an ENERGY BASED attack? Physically more powerful, despite the fact it's an energy based attack? Or is it somehow ELSE more powerful, such as a SMARTER, MORE EFFICIENT attack? If you go with the third one, I'll definitely agree. But when you refer to energy type things, you have to explain it. Because the only way energy things become more powerful, is when you apply MORE energy.

3. Do you think we are a bunch of Physics n00bs, that understands nothing of Physics??? I know it will be energy pressure that can destroy the object in your example, but since the pressure only is exerted from one side it will only, if not enough energy presssure is exerted, push the object, by exerting a force on it, because there will be a pressure difference on the object. And if the bomb is inside the object, the explosion will create a pressure that will point outwards in 4Pi steradians. Now particles of the object won't be force in (almost) one direction like before, but all in different directions, which is what will tear the object apart.

Given the fact that nobody around here seems to know too much about it aside from two other people in another forum, yes, I do. I do indeed think people's understanding of physics is sub par. But then again, most people don't STUDY physics, or even observe it. Hence, I'm not really upset over people's lack of understanding of it, until they decide they're going to attempt to use it incorrectly and argue with me against it. And energy isn't simply an "all directions" sort of deal, and using math is really less than useless here, since we're not comparing energy output. So put your fancy words that only you, I, and Wikipedia know. I'm comparing the difference between annihilating a planet from the outside, the inside, and the energy requirements for both.

But trying to explain the laws of physics in comic characters action is pointless, as the authors probably don't know anything about the laws, only some basics like the speed of light is the limit speed and simple stuff like that. You're trying to talk about laws of physics in DB?

Actually, you think the Japanese are really all that dense? Japan has one of the top FIVE scientific communities worldwide. Top ten in physics. America being in neither. And most of it is general everybody should know stuff.
Well how did Superman in the first place went INSIDE the sun and stayed, no matter how dense his body's molecylary structure (as I heard in the movies) is, he won't be able to stay inside a sun, because the 12 MK will his molecylary structure to the basics, Carbon, or even a ligther atom. The person have ad to be made of ionized He to survive in there...

For someone who's trying to say he's not a physics "n00b" (God I hate spelling it like that), you made the cardinal mistake of not utilizing logic to back yourself up there. You have to rethink all of Superman, and THEN come up with the reason. The reason being his own atomic structure, and cellular absorption leading to a stronger atomic structure. The point is, is that not all things in the universe are melted at 5 MK, or the core's possible 14 MK (roughly). Atomic chains in the universe may very well be able to withstand that. Especially if you can set up a refractory energy barrier that simply just denies energy, (or large quantities of energy) to simply invade your area. The same goes for DBZ, you're going to assume they simply rely on a physical structure, when hardly anything in the universe simply relies on a physical structure alone.

And ionized helium isn't exactly the only thing to endure such heat. It can't even really endure such heat. It's super pressured alongside the plasmic energy of the sun to be forced into such position, then ignited fairly quickly.

Almost the same goes for the blackholes that you say Superman has squized, but this would be worse.

Actually, again, it relies all on atomic structure. Do I agree that his atomic stucture should have such a super tight bond to resist the tremendous gravitational forces that rock a black hole? Hell no. Nothing, including elementary particles, have ever seem to have done that. But the severe energy and atomic alignment are not even known to be possible.

So you see the authors don't think about the laws of physics, they just make stuff up (even if it's impossible for the person doing) make the person do it to make the person loke really powerfull...

And I'm not saying they don't make stuff up. Things such as instant movement through purely physical power is obviously impossible. I'm just saying that (since this is a fricking arguement about the energy required to destroy a god damned planet) the Z fighters are obviously smarter than to use heavy pay loads of their own energy, or spend time charging energy from around themselves, simply to destroy a target from the inside, when a far easier, and much more efficient solution was at hand.

The only one I would think to be that thick skulled would possibly be Goku, but even I think he's better than that.

[MSGohan]

If I ignore one thing, I ignore all things. Hence, no I didn't. But you just contradicted yourself there. You said it takes less energy, but still requires more energy than a planetary explosion? Hardly. It simply takes LESS energy. Can Frieza pull up all his energy inside himself and hold it there as a shield? No. And when you say "MORE POWERFULL" (which is spelled without the extra "L", not trying to be horrible about this, I just want Gotenks to jump on me for that one.) you have to imply HOW it's more powerful. How is it more powerful? Does it have more energy being an ENERGY BASED attack? Physically more powerful, despite the fact it's an energy based attack? Or is it somehow ELSE more powerful, such as a SMARTER, MORE EFFICIENT attack? If you go with the third one, I'll definitely agree. But when you refer to energy type things, you have to explain it. Because the only way energy things become more powerful, is when you apply MORE energy.
Well this an error from me, because my english is weak. I didn't say that it requires more energy (quote me if I said that). I said Trunks' attack was more "powerful". Maybe it's the word I used in a wrong way, but what I meant, was that Trunks attack was better. Actually it most also exert more power on Frieza, since it destroyed him, than planetary explosion. I'm not saying than a planetary explosion has less power overall, it's just that you can't get hit by all the p. explosion's power, only a SMALL fraction of it (dependend on your surface area). I don't think I contradict myself.

Given the fact that nobody around here seems to know too much about it aside from two other people in another forum, yes, I do. I do indeed think people's understanding of physics is sub par. But then again, most people don't STUDY physics, or even observe it. Hence, I'm not really upset over people's lack of understanding of it, until they decide they're going to attempt to use it incorrectly and argue with me against it. And energy isn't simply an "all directions" sort of deal, and using math is really less than useless here, since we're not comparing energy output. So put your fancy words that only you, I, and Wikipedia know. I'm comparing the difference between annihilating a planet from the outside, the inside, and the energy requirements for both.
""all direction" sort of deal"...? I was refering to the situation where a bomb goes off inside an object. "All direction" is wrong. I say that after I explain how the the energy/the pressure "will point outwards in 4Pi steradians", so you should have known what I meant by that. I used the term steradians, so I didn't have to make examples of what I mean, which would be like "bomb center of an sphere - explosion will point radially outwards from the center of the sphere".
There is nothing fancy about the term steradians... This is a discussion, stop being so negative.


For someone who's trying to say he's not a physics "n00b" (God I hate spelling it like that), you made the cardinal mistake of not utilizing logic to back yourself up there. You have to rethink all of Superman, and THEN come up with the reason. The reason being his own atomic structure, and cellular absorption leading to a stronger atomic structure. The point is, is that not all things in the universe are melted at 5 MK, or the core's possible 14 MK (roughly). Atomic chains in the universe may very well be able to withstand that. Especially if you can set up a refractory energy barrier that simply just denies energy, (or large quantities of energy) to simply invade your area. The same goes for DBZ, you're going to assume they simply rely on a physical structure, when hardly anything in the universe simply relies on a physical structure alone.

And ionized helium isn't exactly the only thing to endure such heat. It can't even really endure such heat. It's super pressured alongside the plasmic energy of the sun to be forced into such position, then ignited fairly quickly.
Here you are again critizing ppl for not knowing as much as you about (particle)physics. Negative as usual... Well I've only just finished Secondary school, where I had very LITTLE about particle and nuclear physics so I wouldn't know that some molecylary structure can be able to exist inside the suns core (can you provide some references about this fact btw?).
I thought that maybe Supes had an energy field around him, so he doesn't get destroyed, and be able to absorb energy from there, but since I've never seen/heard that Superman can create energy fields, I assumed that it was an error from the authors, like so many other things...
"not utilizing logic to back yourself up there" - this is not logic, this knowledge that I didn't posses.


Actually, again, it relies all on atomic structure. Do I agree that his atomic stucture should have such a super tight bond to resist the tremendous gravitational forces that rock a black hole? Hell no. Nothing, including elementary particles, have ever seem to have done that. But the severe energy and atomic alignment are not even known to be possible.
So you agree that's impossible even for Superman.

And as for your last statement, I don't even think we're discussing about the same thing. :confused:

[LouFerignoDemon]

First don't apply science to fiction.

Ah. I will definitely enjoy getting into this one at the end of this post.

Trunks destroyed Freeza's skin with a ki blast and that skin can take the explosion fo a planet without being ripped.

Trunks cut up Frieza, who definitely wasn't powered up for planetary destruction, and then destroyed his bits with a ki blast. Frieza, by that point, was definitely not charging much up since he was dead and all.

The only person in this fight who has continuous durability is Superman, since the others are dependent on energy manipulation.

That shows that his blast had more power then the explosion of a planet because it could rip the skin of a guy who's skin couldn't be broken by the explosion of a planet.

This is wrong, and I've already explained it.

Is it that hard to understand.

I'll assume it's a question. But yet I do not think you do.

And second I have the whole dbz manga,I've seen all the movies and I saw almost every episode.

And I've read comics and watched anime for nearly my entire life. Useless information as well, but I figure as long as we're comparing guns.

So I'll give you a tip,don't use science to explain what a character did.

This will definitely have to be answered in the end of the post.

Edit:You're trying to hard,no one cares what energy it had or all that,who sees it will say that the blast had more power then the explosion of a planet and that's it,you don't need to bring scientists here to explain it or all that because no one cares.
And because you can't apply real life things to fictional things.

End of post stuff. Can you tell I just figured I'd have to address this point by point originally?
But if you're at it,explain this:
How in the world can a human run faster then the eye could see.

Humans can only comprehend around 30% visually what's around them travelling at 40 mph. And we can only determine about 30% of the detail of an object passing 40 mph in front of us. So if something is moving several times the speed of sound, or sub light, then of course you're either going to see a blur or nothing at all.

Do you think that Toriyama had books all around him?Nohe just made them how he wanted.

I love how people think that cartoon writers are dumb. They say that unless they have degrees or books around them, that they basically can't come up with basic elementary laws, or even think of them.

Japan is considered in the top ten nations to have the smartest students. Actually, I believe top five.

If I want I could make a character to destroy a planet with a shotgun,yes a normal shotgun,how do you explain that?

Yeah, because then you'd say it'd contain just as much energy as a planetary destruction energy wave. :rolleyes:

It's pretty simple to make,I just make a guy to shoot at a planet and the planet explodes,or if I want I could make a normal can,yes a normal cat to go through a black hole and then to come out wihtout loosing a hair.
How do you explain that?

How do I explain two fairly unrelated guaging points? Not very well. One could easily be explained and pondered, while one came from you.

If I remember PC Sups was lifting galaxies,how in the world could someone even lift a galaxy?It's made out of gas and all that,so how could he.

Actually, no, I do not remember that. And if he did, this has already been covered. By tactile telekinesis. Useful stuff.

So next time,don't bring real life stuff into a fictional world.

End of post stuff finally!!


This is what I love. And I apologize, I promised myself I wouldn't make a jab about the American education standard, but here we go.

This, where I come from, is taught in our middle schools. (So while I say congrats to MSGohan for actually taking an interest in physics, I'll go back to the "fancy words" thing relating to this in my response post to that).

What is it that we're doing here?

Arguing over fanboyism, that's what.

This is a comparison vs. thread. And while I'm sure Warhammer has probably pondered this all on his own, I will flat out say it.

DBZ fanboys are not smart.

Zero smart.

Sans intelligent.


This is how it goes. They want to compare a hero in a comic universe that usually has some form of definition and limit against a DBZ character.


Okay, so far so good, I can see the reasoning behind it. But it all goes wrong....here:

They don't want to use comparative analysis. They basically want to ONLY have comic book characters follow laws and such, and have DBZ characters have zero limits or explanations, so there's this easy out little back door for them to win in without much thought.

"Don't try to use reasoning in fiction" arguement.


It's about as dumb as "Superman wins simply because Super is in his name."

How the hell does Superman win? How does Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Iron Man, Thor, Bomb Queen, Lady Death, or Mr. Manhattan win for that matter?

"Because we don't want to give them limits or definition, and so we don't have to have an absolute, or even good, reason for them to win. We can simply just pawn it off on lack of thought and declare victory."

And this is true of DBZ fans. Not once, not ONCE, have I seen one well thought out convincing arguement that didn't turn a critical eye upon DBZ. Not once. Hell, I haven't seen one at ALL.

Here people talk about the weight of the rock and the metal, and that should compare his strength, but they don't want to use any other form of thought, since it might portray Goku in a bad light.

People (read: DBZ fanboys) only criticize comic characters and say that DBZ characters can destroy planets like crazy because they've done it a few times. But they're not even going to consider how that might work in a comparative thought pattern. What they will say is that it has been done, more than once, and must be something they can do at the bat of an eye with normal energy waves.

While with Superman, they will compare his solar absorption, his strain under doing heavy feats, and everytime he's been defeated and the circumstances it was under.

Goku? No. They won't say anything but, "He was simply overpowered."

Overpowered? What does that mean? Physically, mentally, what? Have most fanboys even pondered it? No. They simply use this super vague term, give their favorite character super vague limitations and unreal and inconsistent abilities, and use that as something they like to think of as a "convincing reason." If this were Goku vs. Vegeta, I wouldn't care. Because then you just have two vague ass characters (courtesy fanboys), and the only people who would even be interested would be said fanboys.

But guess what. You stepped up into the comicdom now, and now you have to face REAL thoughts, and REAL reasons. Not just some crap, and then pawn it off on being "fiction." Doesn't work that way. Even fictional universes have laws. Even they have barriers and limits. I've yet to see ONE universe that doesn't. (Feel free for someone to correct me on this though, as it would be most interesting to analyze).

Yet, people will just give the DBZ (read once again: fanboys and people that just don't want to see Superman win) universe just these unrealistic points, criticize DCU, and won't even CONSIDER doing that to their own.


The fact that Buutenks totally ignored my post and said, "Nobody cares" is a perfect example of fanboyism. Have I read everything YOU guys posted about DBZ. Hell yes, duh. Hard to conduct an argument against someone unless you have your head on right.

Because if you don't WANT to debate actual thoughts about this, then don't. Shut up, put your post as "Goku wins" and leave it there. I don't care, everybody has an opinion. But if you're going to want to prove that Goku IS stronger, more powerful, capable of defeating Superman, you're going to have to use all that criticizm and thought against Goku too.

The only way to compare two beings is to utilize science in fiction. You HAVE to analyze possibilities and limitations. You can't just give unreasonable demands on one without the other. Sorry, doesn't work. Don't like it? Tough. Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. You want to debate on who's actually going to win? Utilize that gray matter in your head.


And I absolutely refuse to respond to any further posts in this thread that have not been thought out. Unless you guys are obviously trying, then I'll go ahead and respond.

Off to my next response now.

[Sloth7d]

Too much science in a topic about a character who isn't based around it.

[LouFerignoDemon]

See, now I'm starting to like this guy. This one's cooking with gas.

Well this an error from me, because my english is weak. I didn't say that it requires more energy (quote me if I said that). I said Trunks' attack was more "powerful". Maybe it's the word I used in a wrong way, but what I meant, was that Trunks attack was better. Actually it most also exert more power on Frieza, since it destroyed him, than planetary explosion. I'm not saying than a planetary explosion has less power overall, it's just that you can't get hit by all the p. explosion's power, only a SMALL fraction of it (dependend on your surface area). I don't think I contradict myself.

My English is secondary as a language as well. I can easily empathize. But it's obvious you have a good enough handle on it's vocabulary to definitely select a better phrase.

And you did contradict yourself, in this post alone. You said that Frieza must have been hit with more power, but that Trunks utilized less power (power being actual energy exerted in the attack.)

The fact is, is that most pressure energy is wasted in an outer attack, so the demand for actual energy to create the feed required to destroy an object from the outside is far greater than if the energy were in the inside, where none of it is wasted.

It's not really a mathematical thought, it's just a fact inside of physics.

""all direction" sort of deal"...? I was refering to the situation where a bomb goes off inside an object. "All direction" is wrong. I say that after I explain how the the energy/the pressure "will point outwards in 4Pi steradians", so you should have known what I meant by that. I used the term steradians, so I didn't have to make examples of what I mean, which would be like "bomb center of an sphere - explosion will point radially outwards from the center of the sphere".
There is nothing fancy about the term steradians... This is a discussion, stop being so negative.

Oh, I knew what you meant by that. But this is where I got to my promised American education system problem. Not everybody knows what a Sterdian is. And the fact that it's more of a 2d geometry thought over a 3d physical thought is somewhat not accurate, though it does serve it's job well enough since there's really not an easier way to measure pressure inside of a contained environment concerning angles.

However, you and I might easily understand this. Unfortunately, and it's very much to my dismay (and also a great cause of a lot of my frustration here), is that most Americans (and this is a primarily American site) will not. And so, if we're going to debate, we HAVE to make it fair. Especially since this is all elementary physics. We can't sit here, go off the handle with each other, and leave it to the point that the only way anybody could know what we're saying is with a book of some sort. Several actually, but that's not the point.

Keep it simple, keep it neat. The true explanation to all things in the universe starts at the very smallest and simplest points. Basically the motto to Quantum Physics.



Here you are again critizing ppl for not knowing as much as you about (particle)physics. Negative as usual... Well I've only just finished Secondary school, where I had very LITTLE about particle and nuclear physics so I wouldn't know that some molecylary structure can be able to exist inside the suns core (can you provide some references about this fact btw?).

Actually, I am a quantum (read: particle) physicist, but these physics are elementary. This stuff is what's taught at the middle school level here in France and most of the world. If not, at least the high school level.

As for me being negative. I'm extremely negative. Especially when it comes to arguing with Americans over this stuff.

And it comes from personal frustration, which I apologize for, but feel my frustration is all too warranted. A country that literally has the best biological advantage in being able to attain, direct, and utilize knowledge, yet aren't even taught basic logical thought patterns.

(Big reason on that, but it's really not the American's fault as much as it is their structure's fault. Though one could argue that they don't move to rectify it as they should.)

As for the "fact"? It's nothing more than a possibility. On Earth, we have several atomic chains that survive several different degrees of heat. It's not too unthought provoking to think there might be one (especially with chemicals we have no knowledge about) or two out there that could survive direct solar heat.

I thought that maybe Supes had an energy field around him, so he doesn't get destroyed, and be able to absorb energy from there, but since I've never seen/heard that Superman can create energy fields, I assumed that it was an error from the authors, like so many other things...

It was explained off as a great conspiracy of tactile telekinesis. It's considered that all beings who can lift buildings and such without breaking them apart are endowed with this. It would be entirely reflexive, and would amplify their durability as such. Do I believe it? Not really. It doesn't really make all that much sense, but it is Superman's ability allegedly.
"not utilizing logic to back yourself up there" - this is not logic, this knowledge that I didn't posses.

Close. But logic and knowledge are just as akward bedfellows as they are total strangers. Logic is the pursuit of an answer through knowledge, but logic isn't knowledge itself. Though most people can confirm logical points without all the necessary knowlege as long as they use a logical system to obtain that point.



So you agree that's impossible even for Superman.

I agree tons of things are impossible for Superman.

And as for your last statement, I don't even think we're discussing about the same thing. :confused:

I was stating a way that Superman could possibly be the way he is, and then stating an impossibility for him.

[MSGohan]

Now I really didn't want to post in this thread anymore, but I just had to reply to your statement:
And you did contradict yourself, in this post alone. You said that Frieza must have been hit with more power, but that Trunks utilized less power (power being actual energy exerted in the attack.)
There is a difference between power and energy, I didn't say Trunks used less power (quote me if I did), I said that he used less energy. Maybe it's not called power in english, but I'm refering to energy rate per second. I hope this clears up the mistake...

Besides that, I don't think there is more to say about this subject*, as I believe all the points about it have been stated (some which you have ignored, but it doesn't matter).

* Even though _many_ of your statements in #220 is debatable, but I don't want to wast my time, because you keep overlooking some arguments.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Now I really didn't want to post in this thread anymore, but I just had to reply to your statement:

There is a difference between power and energy, I didn't say Trunks used less power (quote me if I did), I said that he used less energy. Maybe it's not called power in english, but I'm refering to energy rate per second. I hope this clears up the mistake...

Besides that, I don't think there is more to say about this subject*, as I believe all the points about it have been stated (some which you have ignored, but it doesn't matter).

* Even though _many_ of your statements in #220 is debatable, but I don't want to wast my time, because you keep overlooking some arguments.

You have to provide the difference in power and energy in their attacks, since you guys continually talk about their energy.

And I really didn't ignore anything.

[buutenks]

Ah. I will definitely enjoy getting into this one at the end of this post.



Trunks cut up Frieza, who definitely wasn't powered up for planetary destruction, and then destroyed his bits with a ki blast. Frieza, by that point, was definitely not charging much up since he was dead and all.

The only person in this fight who has continuous durability is Superman, since the others are dependent on energy manipulation.



This is wrong, and I've already explained it.



I'll assume it's a question. But yet I do not think you do.



And I've read comics and watched anime for nearly my entire life. Useless information as well, but I figure as long as we're comparing guns.



This will definitely have to be answered in the end of the post.



End of post stuff. Can you tell I just figured I'd have to address this point by point originally?


Humans can only comprehend around 30% visually what's around them travelling at 40 mph. And we can only determine about 30% of the detail of an object passing 40 mph in front of us. So if something is moving several times the speed of sound, or sub light, then of course you're either going to see a blur or nothing at all.



I love how people think that cartoon writers are dumb. They say that unless they have degrees or books around them, that they basically can't come up with basic elementary laws, or even think of them.

Japan is considered in the top ten nations to have the smartest students. Actually, I believe top five.



Yeah, because then you'd say it'd contain just as much energy as a planetary destruction energy wave. :rolleyes:



How do I explain two fairly unrelated guaging points? Not very well. One could easily be explained and pondered, while one came from you.



Actually, no, I do not remember that. And if he did, this has already been covered. By tactile telekinesis. Useful stuff.



End of post stuff finally!!


This is what I love. And I apologize, I promised myself I wouldn't make a jab about the American education standard, but here we go.

This, where I come from, is taught in our middle schools. (So while I say congrats to MSGohan for actually taking an interest in physics, I'll go back to the "fancy words" thing relating to this in my response post to that).

What is it that we're doing here?

Arguing over fanboyism, that's what.

This is a comparison vs. thread. And while I'm sure Warhammer has probably pondered this all on his own, I will flat out say it.

DBZ fanboys are not smart.

Zero smart.

Sans intelligent.


This is how it goes. They want to compare a hero in a comic universe that usually has some form of definition and limit against a DBZ character.


Okay, so far so good, I can see the reasoning behind it. But it all goes wrong....here:

They don't want to use comparative analysis. They basically want to ONLY have comic book characters follow laws and such, and have DBZ characters have zero limits or explanations, so there's this easy out little back door for them to win in without much thought.

"Don't try to use reasoning in fiction" arguement.


It's about as dumb as "Superman wins simply because Super is in his name."

How the hell does Superman win? How does Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Iron Man, Thor, Bomb Queen, Lady Death, or Mr. Manhattan win for that matter?

"Because we don't want to give them limits or definition, and so we don't have to have an absolute, or even good, reason for them to win. We can simply just pawn it off on lack of thought and declare victory."

And this is true of DBZ fans. Not once, not ONCE, have I seen one well thought out convincing arguement that didn't turn a critical eye upon DBZ. Not once. Hell, I haven't seen one at ALL.

Here people talk about the weight of the rock and the metal, and that should compare his strength, but they don't want to use any other form of thought, since it might portray Goku in a bad light.

People (read: DBZ fanboys) only criticize comic characters and say that DBZ characters can destroy planets like crazy because they've done it a few times. But they're not even going to consider how that might work in a comparative thought pattern. What they will say is that it has been done, more than once, and must be something they can do at the bat of an eye with normal energy waves.

While with Superman, they will compare his solar absorption, his strain under doing heavy feats, and everytime he's been defeated and the circumstances it was under.

Goku? No. They won't say anything but, "He was simply overpowered."

Overpowered? What does that mean? Physically, mentally, what? Have most fanboys even pondered it? No. They simply use this super vague term, give their favorite character super vague limitations and unreal and inconsistent abilities, and use that as something they like to think of as a "convincing reason." If this were Goku vs. Vegeta, I wouldn't care. Because then you just have two vague ass characters (courtesy fanboys), and the only people who would even be interested would be said fanboys.

But guess what. You stepped up into the comicdom now, and now you have to face REAL thoughts, and REAL reasons. Not just some crap, and then pawn it off on being "fiction." Doesn't work that way. Even fictional universes have laws. Even they have barriers and limits. I've yet to see ONE universe that doesn't. (Feel free for someone to correct me on this though, as it would be most interesting to analyze).

Yet, people will just give the DBZ (read once again: fanboys and people that just don't want to see Superman win) universe just these unrealistic points, criticize DCU, and won't even CONSIDER doing that to their own.


The fact that Buutenks totally ignored my post and said, "Nobody cares" is a perfect example of fanboyism. Have I read everything YOU guys posted about DBZ. Hell yes, duh. Hard to conduct an argument against someone unless you have your head on right.

Because if you don't WANT to debate actual thoughts about this, then don't. Shut up, put your post as "Goku wins" and leave it there. I don't care, everybody has an opinion. But if you're going to want to prove that Goku IS stronger, more powerful, capable of defeating Superman, you're going to have to use all that criticizm and thought against Goku too.

The only way to compare two beings is to utilize science in fiction. You HAVE to analyze possibilities and limitations. You can't just give unreasonable demands on one without the other. Sorry, doesn't work. Don't like it? Tough. Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. You want to debate on who's actually going to win? Utilize that gray matter in your head.


And I absolutely refuse to respond to any further posts in this thread that have not been thought out. Unless you guys are obviously trying, then I'll go ahead and respond.

Off to my next response now.

First I'm not a fanboy.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.
PC Sups beats the crap out of any dbz character.

I know that the z-fighters can destroy a planet.

There are no feats to prove that they can move or fly at the speed of light.
and we don't know their strength or durability.

So before you actually post do your research okay?because you can't tell the difference between a fanboy and a normal fan.

I'm a big fan of dbz but I am not a fan boy.
Edit:And to tell you how we say who wins,we compare the feats that both characters did and which one has the better feats wins.

And I hope I wasn't rude by ignoring your post,but it's just that I use feats to show how powerful a character is,I don't really care about science and al that.

Like I said,I look at what Goku did an see what feats he has and look at what the other character did and who has the better speed feats,strength and durability feats wins.

For e.g. Goku vs Hulk,I would go with Goku,just becuse he is faster then him and if IIRC Hulk can't survive planet destroying blasts,but if he can then I'll go with Hulk.
But seeing hoe he can't then Goku wins.

Goku vs Sups,Sups wins,he can take Goku's punches and his strongest attack.
So yeah Sups wins even though I don't like it,but this is how it is.

And this is coming from a big dbz fan.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

First I'm not a fanboy.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.
PC Sups beats the crap out of any dbz character.

I know that the z-fighters can destroy a planet.

There are no feats to prove that they can move or fly at the speed of light.
and we don't know their strength or durability.

So before you actually post do your research okay?because you can't tell the difference between a fanboy and a normal fan.

I'm a big fan of dbz but I am not a fan boy.
Edit:And to tell you how we say who wins,we compare the feats that both characters did and which one has the better feats wins.

And I hope I wasn't rude by ignoring your post,but it's just that I use feats to show how powerful a character is,I don't really care about science and al that.

Like I said,I look at what Goku did an see what feats he has and look at what the other character did and who has the better speed feats,strength and durability feats wins.

For e.g. Goku vs Hulk,I would go with Goku,just becuse he is faster then him and if IIRC Hulk can't survive planet destroying blasts,but if he can then I'll go with Hulk.
But seeing hoe he can't then Goku wins.

Goku vs Sups,Sups wins,he can take Goku's punches and his strongest attack.
So yeah Sups wins even though I don't like it,but this is how it is.

And this is coming from a big dbz fan.


id bet goku could take one of supes punches as well..goku has takes punches and blasts that could level mountians and cities without even budging. in martial arts, it doesnt matter how strong your opponent is. gouke can just divert all supes punches because goku is way out of supes league in fighting ability. more strength doesnt mean victory...

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

and if were are talkin anime vegeta vs anime supes. vegeta would kill supes. but if were talkin bout the magna/comic then pre supes wont even know hes fighting

[Jplaya2023]

First I'm not a fanboy.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.


To much irony to point out

[hippie_hunter]

To much irony to point out

Says the Dragonball Z fanboy :o

[LouFerignoDemon]

First I'm not a fanboy.

Easily could have fooled me.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.
PC Sups beats the crap out of any dbz character.

Pre-crisis Superman could. PostCOIE Superman would struggle against many of the villans, and probably lose to Buu.

I know that the z-fighters can destroy a planet.

We all know that.

There are no feats to prove that they can move or fly at the speed of light.
and we don't know their strength or durability.

Actually, their strength could be surmised through some of their earlier feats, or the fact that most of them don't try to use any form of heavy objects around them as weapons, which would make sense.

But since there's no feats to prove they could move or fly faster or at the speed of light, it would be logical to assume they don't, unless it's through circumventual means such as instantaneous movement.

So before you actually post do your research okay?because you can't tell the difference between a fanboy and a normal fan.

Oh, I easily can. Research is a ton of what I do. But fanboys give unrealistic limits without much thought to their character, and use craptacular examples to back themselves up. Which, up until this post, you were doing.

I'm a big fan of dbz but I am not a fan boy.
Edit:And to tell you how we say who wins,we compare the feats that both characters did and which one has the better feats wins.

Feats are good and all. But you have to see the bigger picture. Bigger feat doesn't exactly make a win. Hulk has the potential to lift mountains, yet I definitely wouldn't give him a win over a DBZ character at any stage in the series.

And I hope I wasn't rude by ignoring your post,but it's just that I use feats to show how powerful a character is,I don't really care about science and al that.

Comparisons demand thinking in scientific terms. When people just go off the handle at "Oh, we don't care about any form of progressive thought, we'll just use our own terms for one character, and a different set for another," you get stupid battles. And you get stupid people to fill them.

To compare people, you have to use the SAME conditions. And since DBZ feats have never (at least to me) moved too far outside the world of physics (Energy redistribution is hardly against the rules, though just amplifying your strength and stuff like that needlessly might be.) they can easily be put into a physical environment.

Like I said,I look at what Goku did an see what feats he has and look at what the other character did and who has the better speed feats,strength and durability feats wins.

And while those are good for general things, Superman and Goku are more fine tuned, and have to be observed from more standpoints than that. They're not in their normal environments, so we have to assume potentials more than feats.

For e.g. Goku vs Hulk,I would go with Goku,just becuse he is faster then him and if IIRC Hulk can't survive planet destroying blasts,but if he can then I'll go with Hulk.
But seeing hoe he can't then Goku wins.

Agreed. Though that was a potential comparison, which is exactly what I'd love to see used.

Goku vs Sups,Sups wins,he can take Goku's punches and his strongest attack.
So yeah Sups wins even though I don't like it,but this is how it is.

I don't see Superman taking Goku's strongest attacks, but all of Goku's strongest attacks take up way too much time for a speedster like Superman to use. And since this environment has to favor both characters, speed is of the essence.

Though through this speed, Goku has the greatest advantage. Goku, and most Z fighters, are juggernauts in the speed fighting category, where Superman hardly uses his speed in the same fashion, and would definitely struggle in the keep up category with Goku. Superman would have to rely purely on his raw power to actually defeat Goku. And since we assume it's on a planet that this fight takes place (Goku cannot breath in space), only if it's nightfall will Goku have the greatest advantage, since Superman has no replenishing source, where Goku might by simply pulling in the energy around him.

Based on pure potential, Superman definitely has the win. Goku has far too many disadvantages for someone with an allegedly genius like intellect such as Superman's to make a win.

And this is coming from a big dbz fan.

Not all DBZ fans are total idiots. Just most.

[LouFerignoDemon]

id bet goku could take one of supes punches as well..goku has takes punches and blasts that could level mountians and cities without even budging. in martial arts, it doesnt matter how strong your opponent is. gouke can just divert all supes punches because goku is way out of supes league in fighting ability. more strength doesnt mean victory...

Actually, Goku has never taken a punch that could level a mountain as much as use his own energy to hold back energy that can destroy mountains. His physical structure is nowhere near as powerful as his energy usage.

Though if we're going back to the "better fighter" category, you'd have to have Goku and Superman in the same strength level. If Goku's super fast, but only half as strong as Superman, where Superman could definitely spend hours fighting someone in his strength class, Goku's fighting ability wouldn't do him too well for anything more than dodging. And since Goku would require massive amounts of energy to dodge Superman's super speed punches for hours, this is where Goku's stamina problem comes in. He simply just doesn't last as long. Stamina, strength, durability. Those are the cardinal factors in fighting. That and the ability to use those, which Superman definitely has.

[LouFerignoDemon]

and if were are talkin anime vegeta vs anime supes. vegeta would kill supes. but if were talkin bout the magna/comic then pre supes wont even know hes fighting


Seeing how Superman was never in Anime, definitely.


But if we're talking Superman the Animated Series Superman, or JLU Superman, that would definitely be a much more even fight.

And Post COIE/Pre IC Superman would just be far too strong and durable.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Seeing how Superman was never in Anime, definitely.


But if we're talking Superman the Animated Series Superman, or JLU Superman, that would definitely be a much more even fight.

And Post COIE/Pre IC Superman would just be far too strong and durable.


lol u know wat i meant though

[buutenks]

Actually, Goku has never taken a punch that could level a mountain as much as use his own energy to hold back energy that can destroy mountains. His physical structure is nowhere near as powerful as his energy usage.

Though if we're going back to the "better fighter" category, you'd have to have Goku and Superman in the same strength level. If Goku's super fast, but only half as strong as Superman, where Superman could definitely spend hours fighting someone in his strength class, Goku's fighting ability wouldn't do him too well for anything more than dodging. And since Goku would require massive amounts of energy to dodge Superman's super speed punches for hours, this is where Goku's stamina problem comes in. He simply just doesn't last as long. Stamina, strength, durability. Those are the cardinal factors in fighting. That and the ability to use those, which Superman definitely has.

Actually Goku did.

ssj2 Goku took punches from majin vegeta who was destroying all the mountains around him just with the shockwave of his punches.

And kaio-ken 10 Goku kicks Freeza in the face so hard that Freeza hits an island destroying part of it and hits another island destroying part of it and Freeza didn't even felt it.

Perfect Cell punched fpssj Goku so hard that he went right in a mountain destroying it.

Oozura Gohan destroyed a 50 m stone pillar with one punch and he had a power level of 2100 and Gohan with a power level of 2800 kicks Nappa so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys it completely.
Vegeta punches Reccom so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys part of it.

Ussj Vegeta throws Cell so hard that he takes down the top of a mountain.

And there is more.

Edit:And ssj2 Goku was destroying all the mountains around him as well.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Actually, Goku has never taken a punch that could level a mountain as much as use his own energy to hold back energy that can destroy mountains. His physical structure is nowhere near as powerful as his energy usage.

Though if we're going back to the "better fighter" category, you'd have to have Goku and Superman in the same strength level. If Goku's super fast, but only half as strong as Superman, where Superman could definitely spend hours fighting someone in his strength class, Goku's fighting ability wouldn't do him too well for anything more than dodging. And since Goku would require massive amounts of energy to dodge Superman's super speed punches for hours, this is where Goku's stamina problem comes in. He simply just doesn't last as long. Stamina, strength, durability. Those are the cardinal factors in fighting. That and the ability to use those, which Superman definitely has.

i mean buu's puches could break through mountians but when he punched goku, goku just smiled at it. it also happened with hildegarn in movie 12or 13 i forget.... and you say supes can go fighthing hours with someone in his strength class but if thats so, then like i said before goku is the better fighter. just cause superman can lift a planet doest mean that equals a good fighter. plus superman cant dodge all gokus hits and pretty much after awhile goku will predict all supes' moves. why? because supermans fighting ability is far less superior than the people that goku has faced in his time. goku has unlimited moves and techniques which he can switch at anytime, while supes has a few in comparison.remember..Also, goku would know where to hit superman to cause damage. i think this fight is decided based on experience alone and nothing more

[buutenks]

Easily could have fooled me.



Pre-crisis Superman could. PostCOIE Superman would struggle against many of the villans, and probably lose to Buu.



We all know that.



Actually, their strength could be surmised through some of their earlier feats, or the fact that most of them don't try to use any form of heavy objects around them as weapons, which would make sense.

But since there's no feats to prove they could move or fly faster or at the speed of light, it would be logical to assume they don't, unless it's through circumventual means such as instantaneous movement.



Oh, I easily can. Research is a ton of what I do. But fanboys give unrealistic limits without much thought to their character, and use craptacular examples to back themselves up. Which, up until this post, you were doing.



Feats are good and all. But you have to see the bigger picture. Bigger feat doesn't exactly make a win. Hulk has the potential to lift mountains, yet I definitely wouldn't give him a win over a DBZ character at any stage in the series.



Comparisons demand thinking in scientific terms. When people just go off the handle at "Oh, we don't care about any form of progressive thought, we'll just use our own terms for one character, and a different set for another," you get stupid battles. And you get stupid people to fill them.

To compare people, you have to use the SAME conditions. And since DBZ feats have never (at least to me) moved too far outside the world of physics (Energy redistribution is hardly against the rules, though just amplifying your strength and stuff like that needlessly might be.) they can easily be put into a physical environment.



And while those are good for general things, Superman and Goku are more fine tuned, and have to be observed from more standpoints than that. They're not in their normal environments, so we have to assume potentials more than feats.



Agreed. Though that was a potential comparison, which is exactly what I'd love to see used.



I don't see Superman taking Goku's strongest attacks, but all of Goku's strongest attacks take up way too much time for a speedster like Superman to use. And since this environment has to favor both characters, speed is of the essence.

Though through this speed, Goku has the greatest advantage. Goku, and most Z fighters, are juggernauts in the speed fighting category, where Superman hardly uses his speed in the same fashion, and would definitely struggle in the keep up category with Goku. Superman would have to rely purely on his raw power to actually defeat Goku. And since we assume it's on a planet that this fight takes place (Goku cannot breath in space), only if it's nightfall will Goku have the greatest advantage, since Superman has no replenishing source, where Goku might by simply pulling in the energy around him.

Based on pure potential, Superman definitely has the win. Goku has far too many disadvantages for someone with an allegedly genius like intellect such as Superman's to make a win.



Not all DBZ fans are total idiots. Just most.

Acutally Goku can stay in space for a couple of minutes,Baradock in the manga was in space when he fought Freeza and he was fine.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Acutally Goku can stay in space for a couple of minutes,Baradock in the manga was in space when he fought Freeza and he was fine.


and brolly was flying in space destroying meteors and planets. even vegeta was on some type of moon or planet that wasnt earth's witout any space gear on and survived(b4 he turned ssj)

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

plus goku would never get stuck in space since he has i.T

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually Goku did.

ssj2 Goku took punches from majin vegeta who was destroying all the mountains around him just with the shockwave of his punches.

And kaio-ken 10 Goku kicks Freeza in the face so hard that Freeza hits an island destroying part of it and hits another island destroying part of it and Freeza didn't even felt it.

Perfect Cell punched fpssj Goku so hard that he went right in a mountain destroying it.

Oozura Gohan destroyed a 50 m stone pillar with one punch and he had a power level of 2100 and Gohan with a power level of 2800 kicks Nappa so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys it completely.
Vegeta punches Reccom so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys part of it.

Ussj Vegeta throws Cell so hard that he takes down the top of a mountain.

And there is more.

Edit:And ssj2 Goku was destroying all the mountains around him as well.


See? Examples! These I love. Absolutely love. Love them more if Piccolo were involved, but even girls like myself can't have everything.


Let's start then anyway. To destroy a mountain from the inside out would be far easier than destroying it from the outside. But this definitely lends to the durability of the DBZ characters through their energy amplification techniques.

And Goku destroyed an island on a dying planet which was entirely unstable.

The shockwave thing I'll ask for some form of proof since I don't remember it.

Nappa didn't destroy a mountain by colliding with it. They were surrounded by foot hills at the most.

And unless Oozaru Gohan had a comparative destructive event, you can't really utilize him for an arguement.


However, those fights were people showing out at nearly peak power levels under strain. Superman's strength level lends him mountain shattering ability at a cruising level.

[LouFerignoDemon]

i mean buu's puches could break through mountians but when he punched goku, goku just smiled at it. it also happened with hildegarn in movie 12or 13 i forget.... and you say supes can go fighthing hours with someone in his strength class but if thats so, then like i said before goku is the better fighter. just cause superman can lift a planet doest mean that equals a good fighter. plus superman cant dodge all gokus hits and pretty much after awhile goku will predict all supes' moves. why? because supermans fighting ability is far less superior than the people that goku has faced in his time. goku has unlimited moves and techniques which he can switch at anytime, while supes has a few in comparison.remember..Also, goku would know where to hit superman to cause damage. i think this fight is decided based on experience alone and nothing more

Not all of Buu's punches were mountain shattering level. And Buu, especially during that fight, was more or less just playing around with Goku.

I'll just ask politely to not use movies, since they're not considered cannon.

As for Supe's fighting ability? He's hardly a pushover, and his pure durability makes most of Goku's punches on a more useless level. He probably won't even try to dodge most of his punches. A full charging Superman is basically an unstoppable force of physical power.

And while I do agree Goku will be able to predict Supe's moves, I also move to say he won't have to. Goku's reaction time is far superior to Superman's, and will be able to dodge without prediction. Like I said, Superman has low experience in hyperspeed combat.

Goku's moves are actually kind of limited it seems. While he has a few more tricks up his sleeve over Superman, Superman isn't exactly a one trick pony himself.

But this is where Superman's stamina comes in. Goku is basically a low level stamina in comparison. And while Goku CAN fight for hours, they're always in a constant state of decline and exaustion, where Superman hardly feels those effects for a long long time.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Acutally Goku can stay in space for a couple of minutes,Baradock in the manga was in space when he fought Freeza and he was fine.


Upper atmosphere, not pure outerspace. DBZ at least obeys the laws of not being able to talk where there's no air for them to use. (Not sound, just them not talking, like underwater and such.)

However, a few minutes of holding your breath is pretty much nothing to someone who can just live out there.

[LouFerignoDemon]

and brolly was flying in space destroying meteors and planets. even vegeta was on some type of moon or planet that wasnt earth's witout any space gear on and survived(b4 he turned ssj)

Vegeta could've been on a planet with an atmosphere. Namek would be an example, though he wasn't actually at Namek obviously.

[LouFerignoDemon]

plus goku would never get stuck in space since he has i.T

That would be fine, if (and we have to assume a blood thirsty Superman and Goku respectively) Superman wasn't ripping him into space as he came back.

Telescopic vision is awesome.

[saiyan jedi]

ok but this is vegeta not goku

[LouFerignoDemon]

And Vegeta is considered the poor man's Goku.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

so wat kind of power does it take to deflect an energy beam capable of destroying a city or planet with one hand with too much effort. one of the beams could relate to one of supes punches

[LouFerignoDemon]

so wat kind of power does it take to deflect an energy beam capable of destroying a city or planet with one hand with too much effort. one of the beams could relate to one of supes punches


See, Superman lacks this ability. Goku and the others use their own stored energy to literally deflect, or hold, other people's energies. Their control over this specific type of energy give them this power.


It's like their energy sensitivity. Chances are Superman wouldn't rank too much over a human since he doesn't literally store the same energy they do.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

See, Superman lacks this ability. Goku and the others use their own stored energy to literally deflect, or hold, other people's energies. Their control over this specific type of energy give them this power.


It's like their energy sensitivity. Chances are Superman wouldn't rank too much over a human since he doesn't literally store the same energy they do.

wat i mean is that they deflect them with their hands and nothing more.. or just guard their face a just take it head on with getting damaged

[LouFerignoDemon]

wat i mean is that they deflect them with their hands and nothing more.. or just guard their face a just take it head on with getting damaged

Their energy is charged through them. It's how they actually seem to do everything. Granted physical training is a big thing too. But too often do I see them scratched up from hitting the ground for me to believe otherwise.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

traningin in 450 times gravity for instance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTK4TcYxx3k


without going ssj