Do you think the Ultimate Universe will still be around 40-50 years from now?

[TheSumOfGod]

Do you think it has any staying power, that it will last as long as 616 already has, that one day our grandchildren will be picking up Ultimates 37 issue 1?

Personally, I think that a few years from now, when the Ultimate Universe will have become boring, when every 616 story will have been re-done and re-re-done, and sales will be dropping, they'll simply MERGE 616 and Ultimate continuities together in a "Crisis"-type event, and re-start Marvel all over again.

What do you think?

[Red]

Give it 5 years.

[Harlekin]

I give it another two/three years at best.

[jaydawg]

No way. It'll last at least five more years. After all the point was to tell stripped down stories of classic characters without years of continuity bogging them down. The fact that USM is about to reach 100 pretty much makes an assload of continuity.

[Red]

Well USM has gone through about 20 years of Spidey storys in 100 issues. Bendis will soon have to make his own stories.

[Harlekin]

Wow, I totally misread it. I thought it said Ultimates. Nah, the Ultimate Universe will be around for a good more 5 years at least.

[THANOSRULES]

I wit last as long as it continues to sell.

But I will say...I am seeing signs that may anger fans.

the first is the delays of the "flagship book" Ultimates...delay a book like this , where continuity depends on the outcomes , and fans may get mad.

and with the crews to the next couple ultimates annouced, it may well continue with delays.

Ultimates has in some ways sabatoged other books, like the Gah lak tus arc .

Ultimates was created as a means for uber creative teams to have a shot at re-launching the Marvel universe...when enough time passess and the Ultimate books are equally daunting in terms of past history and their own estblished continuity, one may wonder what the point of it all will be.

But in terms of reality...as long as it sells it will be around.

[THANOSRULES]

I wit last as long as it continues to sell.

But I will say...I am seeing signs that may anger fans.

the first is the delays of the "flagship book" Ultimates...delay a book like this , where continuity depends on the outcomes , and fans may get mad.

and with the crews to the next couple ultimates annouced, it may well continue with delays.

Ultimates has in some ways sabatoged other books, like the Gah lak tus arc .

Ultimates was created as a means for uber creative teams to have a shot at re-launching the Marvel universe...when enough time passess and the Ultimate books are equally daunting in terms of past history and their own estblished continuity, one may wonder what the point of it all will be.

But in terms of reality...as long as it sells it will be around.

[Kevin]

i give it 10 to 20 years tops

[Genesis 1.0]

I can definitely see the Ultimate line around at the very least, 10 years from now. They've still got 616 arcs to run and then they'll be writing their own new stories, unhindered by decades of continuity and eventually making their own tangle that is the 616.

[The Ether]

I think marvel's gonna merge it with 616 universe. It's bound to happen I guess.

[Varient]

Do you think it has any staying power, that it will last as long as 616 already has, that one day our grandchildren will be picking up Ultimates 37 issue 1?

Personally, I think that a few years from now, when the Ultimate Universe will have become boring, when every 616 story will have been re-done and re-re-done, and sales will be dropping, they'll simply MERGE 616 and Ultimate continuities together in a "Crisis"-type event, and re-start Marvel all over again.

What do you think?
yes it will last for a good long while,.. and when it gains too much "continuity" it will split off an alt called the Ultimates Power Universe,.. then in twenty years that will split off to be the Ultimates Power Real-deal universe.
Marvel will have a few "universes running off at the same time,.. taking a critical twist from the one before it
So that by the time you reach UPRD Universe,.. Spiderman will be a Jewish muslim child of the superspy dad who survived and gained the same powers mechanically while working for the Canadian weapon "Y" program which the original intent was to grant animal like abilities to special agents,... As the son of Mecana-spiderman and Wasp-Woman,... Peter-mohamad-jones-parker gained actual spiderpowers that emerged at puberty.

[Darthphere]

No because if it goes on that long it makes its purpose irrelevant.

[MyPokerShirt]

batman took harley quinn from the cartoon.
superman took origin ideas from smallville (i think. i know theyre always robooting the exact origin of lex and clark etc)
spider-man took the organic webbing from the movie.

life imitating art imitating life. or in this case art imitating art imitating art imitating art... you get the idea.

good ultimate ideas (as it becomes more and more its own universe, rather than the rehashing its often done), such as new characters, i fully expect to merge into 616. But not all of them. Ultimate will last a while but would be dropped forever with a drop in sales (i.e. with another industry crash) where as 616 will always have the most effort put into it to save the books, no matter what state they are in.

so: merging of some ideas, but basically 616 will outlive ultimate as ultimate will disappear within the next 20 years (im forcasting good times over the next 10...)

[Badfish40oz]

I can't believe nobody is voting for the "merging." That is clearly what will happen. It will still mostly be the mainstream Marvel universe (616), but any great ideas that catch on in the Ultimate Verse will be put into main continuity.

[MyPokerShirt]

merging makes it sound like a reboot. i cant see them trying to wipe out stan lee's amazing fantasy 15 AGAIN. surely you can see why thats an unattractive idea. name ideas in ultimate that would change 616. i cant see anything they could do at the moment.
a monster hobgoblin? done that, demogoblin.
black ben reilly research assistant being evil genius? no, thatd be another reboot and retcon.
most changes would be retcons/ make no difference as it stands. i think the series has a while to go before this discussion becomes truly relevant. both amazing SM and ultimate are doing well. as it stands it wont happen in the forseeable future anyway

[SLVRSR4]

:o :down i can see "Ultimates" itself lasting forever with only 3 isues coming out a year!:mad:

[rjb182]

I think the Ultimate line is a really cool idea. I love the idea of new takes on characters, updating, etc. So in terms of fun/coolness value, it deserves to last.

But in terms of its main purpose-- simplifying Marvel's backlog of continuity-- it's a short-term solution to a long-term problem. As others have point out above, the Ultimate 'verse gets more of that bothersome continuity with every issue.

So what's really going to have to happen is, Marvel has to decide where it stands on long-term continuity.

If they just don't want the stuff, then they need the Ultimate line to employ frequent reset buttons, little to no time passing, and more standalone/short-term stories so that it remains something distinct from the 616, without a significant continuity of its own. (It may already be too late for this in some cases-- would they need to launch an Ultimate Ultimates? Maybe...) It would have to have a whole different philosophy from 616 books, not just a new starting point. Comics the way they were 30 years ago, essentially.

If they decide to stop sweating it so much and just write good stories, they can either cancel the Ultimate line and just do 616 OR if it keeps doing well, they can keep both and maintain two separate continuities-- or more. Really, you can do whatever the heck you want if you go the route of actually trusting your readers. The concern would be whether you can make that sell, but I think you could.

Or they can start doing what DC has done-- kick-starting the whole 'verse with a Crisis reboot every few years and either merge Universes eventually or change their whole product line every time it starts to get stale.

Any of those things is workable, really. But it's got nothing to do with the fate of the Ultimate line specifically. It just depends on what Marvel's next business philosophy turns out to be.

[hippy fascist]

The point of ultimates is to bring in new kid readers, if it does it'll stay for 5-6 if it doesn't...gone in 2

[hippy fascist]

mc2 didn't exactly do very well did it

[choskins]

I said no

[TheCorpulent1]

mc2 didn't exactly do very well did it
Spider-Girl's still going. :confused:

[hippy fascist]

one title, (albeit a great title) considering mc2 was supposed to be big deal

[FlameHead]

I don't think OUR universe (world) will still be around in 40 or 50 years, let alone the comic-verse.

[TheCorpulent1]

one title, (albeit a great title) considering mc2 was supposed to be big deal
But that one title is still doing well and bringing in new readers. The whole reason it was renewed for Amazing Spider-Girl is because it's been selling well outside of the typical comic geek venues.
I can't believe nobody is voting for the "merging." That is clearly what will happen. It will still mostly be the mainstream Marvel universe (616), but any great ideas that catch on in the Ultimate Verse will be put into main continuity.
Merging would be the end of my already tenuous readership of Marvel's comics.

[hippy fascist]

it would suck everyone's history is interconnected so you can't just pick and choose you're favourites from each universe...it'd be a continuity nightmare!!!:eek:

I wouldn't mind them switching the wolverine's though since the ultimate one still requires more than 10secs to heal after being completely vapourised ;)

[CORNRUS]

Forgive me if this already on a thread, but isn't the current UFF Zombie fest interconnected with an alternate universe not to unlike 616 as the heroes used were more 616ish than ultimateish?

I think they will merge even though Quesada has said point blank that they would not.

It will start with alternate universes going to both 616 and Ultimate, (btw what numbers are the Ultimate universe and the Supremeverse?) and then a gradual cross over. First of these? Probably Exiles).

[Dread]

Do you think it has any staying power, that it will last as long as 616 already has, that one day our grandchildren will be picking up Ultimates 37 issue 1?

Personally, I think that a few years from now, when the Ultimate Universe will have become boring, when every 616 story will have been re-done and re-re-done, and sales will be dropping, they'll simply MERGE 616 and Ultimate continuities together in a "Crisis"-type event, and re-start Marvel all over again.

What do you think?
To be realistic and frank, Marvel rarely has a decent idea of what they want to do and where they see their company and characters headed in TWO years. 40-50 years is way beyond the tenure of anyone who was involved in creating Ultimate.

With that said, originally, Ultimate was supposed to offer a sort of "new" Marvel Universe for "new" fans, as well as give older ones a rejuvenated shot at the classic formulas, only revisioned to work better in the 21st century, and since it had no baring on the original, classic 616, it was like havin' cake and eating it too, yes? But then a few years passed and things that were a "hit" in Ultimate started leaking into Marvel. The best examples are:

1). Spider-Man's ability to keep his mask or his identity secret going from "mildly competant" to "careless teenage girl" level

2). SHIELD in 616 being mistaken and handled like another "extention" of the U.S. like it is in Ultimate, which it isn't, and Nick Fury being a completely unreasonable, almost Fascist figure, which he isn't.

Plus, after a few years Marvel tried "expanding" the line into other extentions, like they do with all franchises (SPIDER-MAN, X-MEN), and as predictable, the stuff that has merit flys, and everything else falls. After USM and UXM, you had UMTU, which flopped after a while. Then you had ULTIMATE ADVENTURES published out of an inside company dare than a need to tell a story (although I actually enjoyed it to some extent), which is a retarded reason to publish ANYTHING. And then two stabs at ULTIMATE ELEKTRA & DAREDEVIL, which obviously didn't take because it'd have become an ongoing if it had. And then you have the random "Ultimate event" mini that has some story that intermingles 1-2 books at once for some grand plot, and these stories almost always aren't worth all the hype. The only two "extention" titles were ULTIMATES (and its sequal), which became a book so riddled by lateness that you almost forget it, since only about 3-4 issues are published a year, and ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR, which thankfully was a worthwhile extention of the line because it added one of Marvel's original franchises to the universe.

More time passes, and Marvel realizes that they need to "rejuvenate" some characters for a new audience, and feel like retconning their entire history and start from scratch, with a more "modern" approach to their mythos. The logical place for that would be an Ultimate version, but since when did logic factor into Marvel editorial meetings? So you have relaunches like BLACK PANTHER (least the first arc or so) or STRANGE that bulldoze past the 616 stuff but aren't Ultimate, and so really have no use or value. The fact is that Marvel's editorially lost interest in Ultimate to some degree, especially since Ultimate "events" always suck and underperform, getting big name "Hollywood" talent like Brian Singer has been impossible, and naturally without "events", they only sell on "successful formula", a concept Marvel feels has no place in a modern market. So really the only reason Ultimate books have lasted this long is because they all still sell within the Top 20-30 every month (at least the ongoings do). Heck, they sometimes used to outsell their 616 counterpart titles by tens of thousands of issues before Marvel changed gears back to "event full of death and destruction a year, no downtime, repeat" from about 2004, which always lead to a short term surge in sales, but need extended "events" year after year to maintain. And here we are.

40-50 years is too long to predict. But in a way, the Ultimate formula is a formula that is rather "old school" but has done well in a modern day. Have a strong central idea and themes for characters, have a very small line of comics that are essential (nature takes care of the unfit titles), and rather than throw all your eggs into one basket with events, spread them out with high quality single titles. Marvel doesn't seem to want to do that with 616 comics anymore.

[Sun_Down]

My guess is that they'll eventually have so many cross-overs that even thought the two universes are separate, no one will be able to tell.

[DBM]

Merging would be the end of my already tenuous readership of Marvel's comics.

Ditto.

[Shockdingo]

I used to think it would last a long time, but recently I've just been feeling that it's not having the appeal to me that it had when it first came out. I now only really care about Ult X-men.

[Mike059jig]

They have their fanbase...and I guess marvel doesn't want to take it away from them...it depends on sales....Ultimate Marvel fanbase are very loyal the Ultimate Universe..I for one have only ready keep getting only two title after droppin all of them in the first arcs and..Those being the Ultimates and Ultimate Wolv vs hulk..but now its down to one with Ult Wolv vs Hulk being off the market so long

[Darthphere]

I can't believe nobody is voting for the "merging." That is clearly what will happen. It will still mostly be the mainstream Marvel universe (616), but any great ideas that catch on in the Ultimate Verse will be put into main continuity.


Im sorry you cant believe there arent more people who would agree with such a horrendously stupid idea. It should always be the other way around, I dont care what anyone says or thinks.

[3dman27]

i don't think the ultimate u will last too many years longer

[Arkady Rossovich]

Im willing to say that the Ultimates line will end,im also willing to bet money on it.The Ultimate Universe was never ment to be permanent,it was just a method to help Marvel escape bankrupcy.As for when,im not sure..

[yenaled]

Ditto.

Ditto.

[Darthphere]

Ditto.


Xeroxed.

[gildea]

Whilst I'd rather they were allowed to finish with issue 150 (or 50 in ultimates case) i don't see it happening.

Merging wouldn't bother me too much mind you.

[Darthphere]

Thus, eliminating its main purpose and many a fan. I can see someone saying that dropping all marvel books because of Spidey revealing his identity might be seen as overreacting. But merging two different universes into one deserves only one response, and thats to drop Marvel for good. I doubt it will ever happen but if it does count me in with the others who will give up on marvel.

[gildea]

Thus, eliminating its main purpose and many a fan. I can see someone saying that dropping all marvel books because of Spidey revealing his identity might be seen as overreacting. But merging two different universes into one deserves only one response, and thats to drop Marvel for good. I doubt it will ever happen but if it does count me in with the others who will give up on marvel.

Eliminating its original purpose I agree. But I think it may be possible to tell better stories in the ultimate framework than 616. I just don't subscribe to one version of a character being more real than another is all, a good story featuring spiderman is more important to me than an average story featuring a particular version of spiderman.

I accept I am probably a minority of one in this :)

As I said though I'd prefer just to end it.

[Darthphere]

Well, when you take a character like Spider-Man, both versions are completely different, there really is no way to merge that character succesfully.

[gildea]

Well, when you take a character like Spider-Man, both versions are completely different, there really is no way to merge that character succesfully.

Yeah it said merge, but to be honest i'm more thinking in the context of replace.

[Darthphere]

It still stands. Some have grown to love the 25 year old teaching Peter parker with a hot ass wife Mary Jane. Others prefer the yong 15 year old slightly emo Peter Parker. There would be outrage of some sort either way. Unless you make him a 20 year old intern with a hot girlfriend thats slightly emo. :confused:

[gildea]

It still stands. Some have grown to love the 25 year old teaching Peter parker with a hot ass wife Mary Jane. Others prefer the yong 15 year old slightly emo Peter Parker. There would be outrage of some sort either way. Unless you make him a 20 year old intern with a hot girlfriend thats slightly emo. :confused:


Spidey's always been slightly emo (heck i'd argue some of the stories under stans pen were worse than anything in ult). But yeah there is no way to make everyone happy doing this and it would piss off too many people for marvel to actually do it.

[hippy fascist]

I think the problem is they had to much freedom, again I return to the point of the goblin. They make him all Hulk-esque and lame because they want to explore something new, but the jekyl hyde thing has already been done to death. The concept of a MAN who has gone completely over the edge allows for a wider variety of far more complex stories to be told. GRRR I'm a big scary green demon -looking thing only lasts for so long.:(

Continuity is a good thing, by placing a strict set of rules around characters writers are forced to dig deep into character motiviation. They have to really think about who the characters are and how past events have shaped them and continue to do so. Examples where they have ignored this and just done whatever they wanted are inevitably crap...cough...the other...cough. The early ultimate stuff is great new starts etc but these days it just feels like there's no cohesion. Personally I like stoires to have some planning behind them rather than just have the writers come in each day and go "well what do you fancy doing today".

As a final point look at issue 97 of USM, they are finally starting to work with the concept of a framework, with self referencing, and it was great. Hobgoblin on the other hand...well let's just say harry was there and hope no-one notices we're making this up as we go along...suckage!

If ultimate is ever gonna work they need to get a cohesive vision for the titles, then they might stand a chance

[gildea]

dunno aside from the stuff umtu created I'd say ultimate is significantly more cohesive than 616.

Oddly enough I just reread all of ult spidey the other day and was surprised by how much I enjoyed the hobgoblin arc, it references some stuff from earlier arcs pretty heavily.

[TheCorpulent1]

Eliminating its original purpose I agree. But I think it may be possible to tell better stories in the ultimate framework than 616. I just don't subscribe to one version of a character being more real than another is all, a good story featuring spiderman is more important to me than an average story featuring a particular version of spiderman.

I accept I am probably a minority of one in this :)

As I said though I'd prefer just to end it.
Spider-Man is one story. The Ultimate and 616 versions honestly aren't all that different. But if there's a merging of, say, Ultimate Thor and 616 Thor? I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that 616 Thor is the one who'll end up shafted and marginalized down to practically no representation within the amalgamation. Why? Ultimate Thor is pretty much universally popular while 616 Thor's fans are few and far between. Same with Captain America. Never mind that Ultimate Cap and 616 Cap represent wholly different concepts--the more popular character is bound to become dominant in the resultant character from any merging. I'm not one to throw around the "If X happens, I'm done with Marvel" threat, but I can honestly say that if Marvel loses the 616 characters in favor of merged characters with heavy Ultimate influences, I would not be able to enjoy their comics any longer.

[Harlekin]

Like hell I'll still be reading Marvel if they merge 616 with UU.

[3dman27]

I think the problem is they had to much freedom, again I return to the point of the goblin. They make him all Hulk-esque and lame because they want to explore something new, but the jekyl hyde thing has already been done to death. The concept of a MAN who has gone completely over the edge allows for a wider variety of far more complex stories to be told. GRRR I'm a big scary green demon -looking thing only lasts for so long.:(

Continuity is a good thing, by placing a strict set of rules around characters writers are forced to dig deep into character motiviation. They have to really think about who the characters are and how past events have shaped them and continue to do so. Examples where they have ignored this and just done whatever they wanted are inevitably crap...cough...the other...cough. The early ultimate stuff is great new starts etc but these days it just feels like there's no cohesion. Personally I like stoires to have some planning behind them rather than just have the writers come in each day and go "well what do you fancy doing toinrermeber reading
back whe a refference ti marvels continuity day".

As a final point look at issue 97 of USM, they are finally starting to work with the concept of a framework, with self referencing, and it was great. Hobgoblin on the other hand...well let's just say harry was there and hope no-one notices we're making this up as we go along...suckage!

If ultimate is ever gonna work they need to get a cohesive vision for the titles, then they might stand a chancei agree with the comments about continuity whe one writer once said continuity made no sense because quote"i come from earth" he should have been told "
you WILL abide by marvels continuity polocy or find your emplyment ELSEWHERE"

[ang_hulk]

I dont think will be around in another 50 years but i know we wont be getting comics of the shelf so i think they will disapear entirly,the ultimate u will be an early sacrafice.

[Arkady Rossovich]

I dont think the Ultimate and 616 Universes will be merged either,the continunity and events would be messed up.It cant be done,besides some fans might not like certian Ultimate things in 616.

Example-Ultimate Nick Fury,who is black.

[SouLeSS]

No because if it goes on that long it makes its purpose irrelevant.

I'm with him.

[RAMORE]

Do you think it has any staying power, that it will last as long as 616 already has, that one day our grandchildren will be picking up Ultimates 37 issue 1?

Personally, I think that a few years from now, when the Ultimate Universe will have become boring, when every 616 story will have been re-done and re-re-done, and sales will be dropping, they'll simply MERGE 616 and Ultimate continuities together in a "Crisis"-type event, and re-start Marvel all over again.

What do you think?

I too think this will happen. But i think they will just kind of pick and choose what they want to use out of each universe. It will allow them to make all characters young again. Ultimate wont replace 616 though. For example if a character is just flat out better and more well liked in ult. then they will use primarily (with a couple of tweaks) that character and vice versa if the 616 is better. Now if both do well like spidey they will frankenstein them together for the new spidey.

[RAMORE]

I dont think the Ultimate and 616 Universes will be merged either,the continunity and events would be messed up.It cant be done,besides some fans might not like certian Ultimate things in 616.

Example-Ultimate Nick Fury,who is black.


Read my first post for how i think they will do what you think they can't. If you haven't learned by now marvel likes to piss us off.:mad: :spidey:

[SpideyInATree]

Well, I'm more concerned with whether or not I'm going to be around for another 40 or 50 years...or if this earth is still here 40 or 50 years into the future what with people shooting missles all over the place. :eek: And our president being the biggest, most redneck douche bag in all of American history. But...back on topic....

No, I don't see it being around for another 40 or 50 years. Eventually it will fade out and be axed. Maybe it will be revisted again by newer writers or artists who enjoyed the Ultimate line...but I don't see it thriving for that long.

The regular universe had a hell of a time itself getting to 50 years.

But if the Ultimate Universe survives that long, God bless it. But I just don't see it.

[TheSumOfGod]

When I said "merge", I meant that they would pick and choose what they like best from 616 and Ultimate. If they think Ultimate Cap is better than 616 Cap, they'll keep Ultimate Cap for the new re-started continuity, and if they think 616 Doctor Doom is better than Ultimate Doctor Doom, they'll keep 616 Doctor Doom (obviously, since Ultimate Doctor "goatlegs" Van Damme is pure s**t).

[Darthphere]

They wont merge the two.

[TheSumOfGod]

They wont merge the two.

Never say never. Marvel is the Fox Studios of the comic book industry, they go fast, cheap and stupid all of the time. Anything to increase sales. They brought back Bucky, with a cyborg arm. They had Gwen Stacy have sex with Norman Osborne and give birth to super-powered twins. Nothing is below them.

I fully expect them to bring Uncle Ben back from the dead any day now, and say that it was a Skrull in disguise that got killed years ago, and that Uncle Ben had been in cryogenic suspension for all these years. Or is it merely a CLONE of Uncle Ben? Clone Saga, the return. :rolleyes:

[Darthphere]

Never say never. Marvel is the Fox Studios of the comic book industry, they go fast, cheap and stupid all of the time. Anything to increase sales. They brought back Bucky, with a cyborg arm. They had Gwen Stacy have sex with Norman Osborne and give birth to super-powered twins. Nothing is below them.

I fully expect them to bring Uncle Ben back from the dead any day now, and say that it was a Skrull in disguise that got killed years ago, and that Uncle Ben had been in cryogenic suspension for all these years. Or is it merely a CLONE of Uncle Ben? Clone Saga, the return. :rolleyes:


Yeah, replacing 616 Cap with Ultimate Cap wouldnt increase sales. Or replacing 616 Spidey with USM.