Is Nolan abusing his reputation?

[Dark Phantom]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

I'm sorry. i just had to get that off my chest.

[theShape]

Well, here are my thoughts:

Obvsiously, this wasn't a decision that Nolan made all by himself. It's not like he kept this a secret from the rest of his film-making team. I'm sure there was much discussion with his collaborators on this decision. For all we know, he may have even taken this to DC writers and asked for their opinions.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter. This film is his vision, not the fans. He doesn't need to ask us who we think would make the best Joker, because we really don't know what's best for the film, and we don't have one, definitive candidate in mind, anyway. There's Hulme...Bettany...and endless others that we were campaigning for.


Nolan must have seen something in Heath Ledger that made him realize he was the best choice for the role. And right now, we have to put our trust in Nolan that he was right. Sure, he surprised us with this casting. But when the movie is released in 2008, and we see an amazing Joker, will it really matter that we weren't "in the know" for a few months?

I think not.

[Batty Belfry]

Dark Phantom, I didn't know what to think yesterday...but the more I thought about it, the more I think it will work, really well too! All I can say is that he must've done something that made Chris Nolan extremely content. For a movie like this, they've got to do a screen-test, right? Maybe his screen-test was awesome. He's not the first person to come to mind when thinking of the Joker, but IMO, he's not the worst.

Patience in the face of adversity grasshopper!!! I think (and hope!) that we'll get a kick-arse movie with a kick-arse Joker.

[X Knight]

but....then......Nolan is not obligated to keep us fan informed with every decision..........nor is he obligated to consult with us..........

I'm a bit surprised by the announcement.....assuming it is official. I would not have thought of Heath Ledger as the Joker........but Nolan assembled a terrific cast for the Begins......so I trust he will do the same for the sequel.

[Mee]

But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue

Out of the blue for us maybe, but obviously Nolan has met with him and screentested him and thinks he's best for the job. It's not like he just put a bunch of names in a hat and came out with Ledger.

[DA Harvey Dent]

I think Nolan puts some stock in fan input, but ultimately he goes for who is right for the part. He said of Bale's casting, "its clear when you look in his eyes this is someone who can make you believe in someone devoting their life to something this extreme." It shows that he has a clear understanding of what the character is about and then connects this with the actor he feels best fits the part. I'm as shocked as everyone else about the Ledger casting, but he must be what Nolan is looking for in the joker. As outsiders, we can only judge an actor by their performance in movies. Ledger can act and has the look but more importantly he had something that Nolan saw - something that we can't judge, yet.

[Cinemaman]

I trust Nolan and his vision. He is very smart and good director, who knows what he is doing with Batman franchise.

He made masterpiece like Memento and he returned Dark Knight to life.

:mad: :up:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, if he listened ALL the time to the fans......we would not have gotten Murphy as Scarecrow. Or Caine as Alfred. Or maybe even Oldman as Gordon.

All those actors OWNED the roles.....so, I think you need to think about that too.

And...I don't think he got approval from anyone anywhere. He took advice, and ran with it. I don't think anyone had to approve anything at DC. He just did his homework.

[Two-Face]

Like everyone else said Nolan must have seen something in Ledger that made him think "yep, he's or Joker" so I trust Nolan.

[Ronny Shade]

I thought Nolan only had a rep with Bat-fans :confused: I mean Begins was successful, but it wasn't Spider-Man successful

[TheBat812]

This seems like an odd casting choice to me, but I trust Nolan implicitly, and Ledger is an incredible actor. I'm not worried.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Uh....isn't POTC2 the ONLY film that's Spidey successful?

Or twice that?

But..Batman Begins pwns both Spidey films.

[Ronny Shade]

you know what I mean though. It's not like he's Speilberg to the general public. just to us bat-fans

[Batty Belfry]

This is only my opinion, but...

I'm not a comic-geek across the board, I like some, like Batman and X-Men. Not a Spidey fan. The Spiderman movies appealed more to my 8 year-old than me. Didn't really care for it. But Batman Begins had the psychological mind-frell that I was looking for...a more mature and adult oriented film. The box office $$ doesn't really matter to me. I was just happy folks gave the movie the respect it deserved...

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Nah, I think he is getting a rep. Batman Begins did that for him.

Look at the new Presitge trailer....it's got him as a headliner...."FROM THE DIRECTOR OF BATMAN BEGINS AND MEMENTO".........so, the studio wouldn't put that in there if they didn't think people would be like "Oh he's done good work".

Plus....he's still a very young director. Dude has made leaps and bounds in a handful of films. He might not be a Speilberg.....atleast not yet. But, if he keeps up the way he is...he'll become a huge name director some day.

[LadyVader]

Listen to the fans? Listen to what!? Everybody squabbled, pledging their undying loyalty to one actor or another. Joker's casting is far more difficult a process then Batman's casting. There was no other way then for him to go with his gut and hope that the fans will trust him, given the fact that he did deliver in the first one.

And yes. We have not details as to how this decision was made just yet. I doubt Nolan just went through a mental list and thought: "Hey, that australian bloke who isn't Hugh Jackman might do. Let's get him."
:)

[Two-Face]

I can imagine now:

nolan: "Hey Bat-fans, I'm considering Haeth Ledger as Joker what do you think"

Bat-fans: "No way" some would say "yes way"


but seriously Nolan has to do nothing to ask us who should be joker

[ChrisBaleBatman]

LOL....yeah...I think most people here assume he just pulled the Ledger's name out of his magic hat.

**** went down, we didn't know.....that's it.

[Mr. Socko]

Seriously, I never thought Bale would have pulled off Batman.

[Batty Belfry]

Nah, I think he is getting a rep. Batman Begins did that for him.

Look at the new Presitge trailer....it's got him as a headliner...."FROM THE DIRECTOR OF BATMAN BEGINS AND MEMENTO".........so, the studio wouldn't put that in there if they didn't think people would be like "Oh he's done good work".

Plus....he's still a very young director. Dude has made leaps and bounds in a handful of films. He might not be a Speilberg.....atleast not yet. But, if he keeps up the way he is...he'll become a huge name director some day.

:up:

The man is definitely great at crafting a good story!

[Mr. Socko]

Woah, Nolan ain't that young is he

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, I think he was the fan favorite choice who got the part.

But, actors like Murphy, Caine, Wilkenson, and even Oldman to an extent were all met with a huge "Wtf" attitude.

[Mr. Socko]

I remember when Sirius Black was cast as Gordon. I was like "WTF R THEY THINKING"

[Saint]

This topicv is silly; Nolan never based his casting decisions on what the fans wanted. The fans never said Gary Oldman, Liam Neeson, Ken Watanabe, or Cillian Muprhy should be in the film in any capacity. The ONLY casting that lined up with fan choice was Christian Bale--and I'd wager Nolan only cared about Bale's talent, not that he was a fan favourite.

Nolan doesn't cast who the fans want, he casts who's best for the role--so I guess that's Heath Ledger.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yup. Well said.

[The Batman]

why did you say this is not a "Nolan shouldve listened to the fans" thread when it clearly is?

Nolan dosent have to do anything. All he needs to do is cast a guy who matches the joker from the comics. thats it. Stop your whining

[El Payaso]

Let the man do his work.

THE worst thing any director can do is listen to fans.

[Alonsovich]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

I'm sorry. i just had to get that off my chest.

He only listened about Bale... in the rest he kicked our asses...

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, Bale was the best choice I think. I can't think of anyone else who had any hype around him that was good enough or better.

[mcflytrap]

Nah, I think he is getting a rep. Batman Begins did that for him.

Look at the new Presitge trailer....it's got him as a headliner...."FROM THE DIRECTOR OF BATMAN BEGINS AND MEMENTO".........so, the studio wouldn't put that in there if they didn't think people would be like "Oh he's done good work".

Plus....he's still a very young director. Dude has made leaps and bounds in a handful of films. He might not be a Speilberg.....atleast not yet. But, if he keeps up the way he is...he'll become a huge name director some day.

I agree completely.

[StorminNorman]

I miss the IN NOLAN WE TRUST thread :(

[xwolverine2]

I miss the IN NOLAN WE TRUST thread :(
the trust if officially gone:mad:

[WormyT]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

I'm sorry. i just had to get that off my chest.


Does Nolan have your number? because I'm pretty annoyed he didn't call me and keep me informed too.

[The Chairman]

I have to admit I was a bit taken aback by the announcement of Ledger as a candidate (and the amount of time it took for the confirmation of him getting the part to leak out), but now that I think about it, I really like the idea. As others have said, Nolan has made some smart casting decision thus far, and if he sees something in Ledger, then it must be something good.

[mcflytrap]

I miss the IN NOLAN WE TRUST thread :(

Hey Normin, you've probably been asked this a million times, but are you holding up? LOL

I was typing a reply to someone about a Ledger manip and I instantly without thinking typed Bettany and had to backspace...I've got Bettany on the brain....but I'm really intrigued by this pick of Ledger. I'm assuming you are game for it as your avatar is now Ledger.

[xwolverine2]

Hey Normin, you've probably been asked this a million times, but are you holding up? LOL

I was typing a reply to someone about a Ledger manip and I instantly without thinking typed Bettany and had to backspace...I've got Bettany on the brain....but I'm really intrigued by this pick of Ledger. I'm assuming you are game for it as your avatar is now Ledger.
:( dont say bettany anymore......it makes me cry:(

[mcflytrap]

:( dont say bettany anymore......it makes me cry:(

Damnit!!!

BETTANY FOR RIDDLER!!!!! **** **** ****!!! EEEEEEYAAAAHH! MY LOVE FOR THE BETT WILL NEVER DIE!!!

http://www.paulbettany.net/gallery/albums/highres/05.jpg

[Saint]

why did you say this is not a "Nolan shouldve listened to the fans" thread when it clearly is?

Nolan dosent have to do anything. All he needs to do is cast a guy who matches the joker from the comics. thats it. Stop your whining
Wait... do you like Ledger being cast? I would have pegged you as someone who would disagree with it, because, historically, we agree on nothing, haha.

[The Batman]

I'm indifferent, really. Chris nolan is a good director, so whining because ledger has been cast is really stupid, imo. not to mention DP will probably be praising him by the time the flick comes out

[StorminNorman]

Hey Normin, you've probably been asked this a million times, but are you holding up? LOL

I was typing a reply to someone about a Ledger manip and I instantly without thinking typed Bettany and had to backspace...I've got Bettany on the brain....but I'm really intrigued by this pick of Ledger. I'm assuming you are game for it as your avatar is now Ledger.

LOL, actually I am surprisingly fine - I really really really like Ledger, I just loved Bettany :( This casting decision is one I am extremely happy with because I am convinced that Ledger can deliever the goods. If Hulme was chosen I would be biting my fingernails for the next two years because an untested actor was taking the role of my favorite villian.

Also....BETTANY FOR BLACK MASK or RIDDLER DAMMIT! :)

[thorstone]

I'm not a fan of the casting decision to go with young good looks before personality (Nicholson set the bar high on this character), but I will admit I am more pleased with Ledger than Betany or Hulme.

[StorminNorman]

I'm not a fan of the casting decision to go with young good looks before personality (Nicholson set the bar high on this character), but I will admit I am more pleased with Ledger than Betany or Hulme.

Yes, because Nolan was CLEARLY going for Young Good Looks over Personality when he made this decision - I mean that sounds like a move Nolan would make. :rolleyes:

[fabman]

Not @ all, Norman. Nolan tested people and thought Ledger'd be the best, my theory at least...

[Saint]

Of course he tested people. You don't cast a role like this without screentests.

[explode7]

Bale Vs Heath won't make a good on screen presentation. I just don't see it.

[Alonsovich]

Bale Vs Heath won't make a good on screen presentation. I just don't see it.

Wow... then you're going to see it TWICE in the next year...:o

[The Sage]

I don't know about Nolan's reputation. I just know he can make a damn good Batman film, and that's what matters to me.

Now let's see what Ledger can do. (If it's true.)

[Swordmaster]

Dark Phantom got owned :o

[Batgort]

In Nolan we trust.

Don't be a wanker. :supes:

[StorminNorman]

Not @ all, Norman. Nolan tested people and thought Ledger'd be the best, my theory at least...

...yea thats what I was getting at :)

[Doc Holliday]

the trust if officially gone:mad:

Why, because he didn't cast Williams after all that ridiculous amount of spamming you did about him?

Guys, honestly, Ledger wasn't my first choice either, but the more I think about it, the more I like him for the role. He is a great actor, really, and he's got a good smile. I think he can do it.

[StorminNorman]

Heath Ledger was always my first choice - because, you know, I am just good like that.

[Abaddon]

Is that really that serious? He can make whatever decision he ****ing wants.:confused:

[The Last Meatbag]

Is it a concrete thing of Heath being the Joker?

[Doc Holliday]

Is it a concrete thing of Heath being the Joker?

Basically, at this point, the concrete is poured, we're just waiting for it to dry.

[Parker]

Heath Ledger as the Joker sounds crazy to me, I almost couldn't think of anyone worse for the role. But Brandon Routh proved me totally wrong in Superman Returns, so I learned my lesson about prejudice. I'll have to wait until I actually see the sequel to Batman before I cast my ballot.

[The Last Meatbag]

Basically, at this point, the concrete is poured, we're just waiting for it to dry.






...............what?

[Doc Holliday]

It's on Latino Review, BOF, IGN, etc., but we haven't had an official announcement yet. That's expected tomorrow or Sunday at Comic-Con.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Who knows....they could keep us hanging all summer if they want to.

[Doc Holliday]

Who knows....they could keep us hanging all summer if they want to.

Indeed they could. But it's expected at Comic-Con. And damn Nolan if we don't get something.

[griffolyon12]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

I'm sorry. i just had to get that off my chest.I know what you are saying,but at the same time we aren't the people sitting in a room hearing all of these guys read the script for them.And Ledger wouldn't of been offered the part unless he was the best person who read for the part or the people in front of him couldn't work in the filming schedule.I have trust that Nolan won't let us down,he never really has done anything to make me not trust him.And from how good he cast the parts in BB I don't think he will let me down now.And it could be worst,he couldn't even listen to fans at all.Another thing I've always said,just because a guy looks like the character and can pull off the look it doesn't necessarily mean they are the best actor for how the role is written.

[kpjoon]

I think Nolan has spoiled us too much.
Fanboys are crazy.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah, like some here already said.

Don't listen to the fans, most of them really don't know what they want......and since they're not behind the scenes....well, ya know...

[Superman4ever]

Heath was an out-of-the-box kind of choice. NO ONE had him pegged for the role...no one even considered him. I personally think that he must have been spectacular during the screen test. He must have done something to impress Nolan, which sorta gives me chills. '08 can't get here fast enough. :D

INWT!

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, there had to have been a screentest....I imagine. Unless he saw something in his other roles........but even then, WB would need a screentest to greenlight him....I guess.

[Sharkboy]

exactly! there MUST have been a screentest, and if nolan was impressed with Ledgers screentest, then thats good enuf for me. nuff sed really : /

[griffolyon12]

I have enough trust in Nolan to know he wont let me down.

[Karea07]

whoa are you ****ing kidding me?

[FaT_tONle]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

I'm sorry. i just had to get that off my chest.

This is the biggest load of ***** ever... directors never should go by what the "fan" thinks... maybe use their thoughts to get an idea of what they might be looking for... but no way should the fan's influence Nolan's decision...

[explode7]

HEy guys next week you should watch Celebrity Death Match there're showing Christian Bale Vs Adam West. Will be interesting to watch.

[kpjoon]

hahahaha I can't wait for that.
They should do a Bale vs Clooney one next.

[explode7]

Who do you want to win. Although I have a pretty good idea :D

[kpjoon]

Bale of course.

[explode7]

Fanboys would cry if he didn't or got hurt. The thing about that show is everyone gets hurt badly but how they got hurt is what is interesting. So how will Adam hurt Bale or vice versa.

[Boom]

Adam West will win.

[explode7]

Yeah I know that becuase they already showed that episode in the past. Really wanted Bale to win though. Oh well. They should do a Routh Vs Tobey.

[Loki225]

I trust Nolan completely for one main reason... Cillian Murphy. I was a fan of Murphy before Batman Begins mainly because of 28 Days Later, but he was never someone that I saw as being capable of being a Batman villian... especially the Scarecrow. I like the idea of Christopher Eccleston but not Murphy. In the end Nolan couldn't of made a better decision because Cillian Murphy's performance was one of my favorite performances in a film where I pretty much loved everyone. He was without a doubt my favorite Batman villian to ever grace the screen. Nolan saw something in him as I'm sure he's seen something in Ledger. Because of that I have no fears. I think he'll be great. Besides... this isn't going to be Nicholson. I have a feeling ( or atleast I'm truly hoping ) that we'll be seeing a much darker version of the Joker and that is something I'm very much looking forward to.

[Raiden]

Nolan may check to see how the fans react to his casting choices, but by no means he should be slave to their opinions. BB was his vision, not the fans', and once a movie get made by a committee it'll fell apart, due to the lack of common vision (and we all know how fickle fans are, esp. comic fans).

If Nolan likes Ledger (who is an exceptional actor), then the fans should give him a chance. It's not the same as Nolan casting Katie Holmes as Rachel, and even then the fans seemed to gel with the decision eventually.

[Dark Knight]

Nolan may check to see how the fans react to his casting choices, but by no means he should be slave to their opinions. BB was his vision, not the fans', and once a movie get made by a committee it'll fell apart, due to the lack of common vision (and we all know how fickle fans are, esp. comic fans).

Exactly!


If Nolan likes Ledger (who is an exceptional actor), then the fans should give him a chance. It's not the same as Nolan casting Katie Holmes as Rachel, and even then the fans seemed to gel with the decision eventually.


:up:

[Bruce Logan]

Does anybody think that the casting of Bale wasn't just because so many fans wanted it but because for once in a blue moon, the fans choice and the director's choice just happened to be the same. I mean, how many of the other roles really went to the actors the majority of the fans wanted? I certainly don't recall tons of threads devoted to Gary Oldman as the Joker.

[Katsuro]

Does anybody think that the casting of Bale wasn't just because so many fans wanted it but because for once in a blue moon, the fans choice and the director's choice just happened to be the same. I mean, how many of the other roles really went to the actors the majority of the fans wanted? I certainly don't recall tons of threads devoted to Gary Oldman as the Joker.

I take it you mean Gordon. Cuz Gary Oldman as Joker is just plain craziness!

[Franklin Richards]

What I find amusing is that I can replace the word "Alba" for the word "Ledger" and this looks exactly like the threads over in the FF forums. The same threads that alot of Batfans were ridiculing a couple of years ago.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, he still had a good point....even though he kinda fumbled it.

Nobody saw Oldman coming, but hey....he ****ing pwned the role. So....

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What I find amusing is that I can replace the word "Alba" for the word "Ledger" and this looks exactly like the threads over in the FF forums. The same threads that alot of Batfans were ridiculing a couple of years ago.


That's slightly different, I would think.......

[Franklin Richards]

Not until we see Ledger portray Joker it's not.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, has Alba ever been up for an oscar?

And....was her face be hidden under make up and prosetetics?

Plus, there was heat like this for Cillian Murphy, Ken Watanabe, Gary Oldman, Michael Caine.

So......no, I don't really think it is much like the Alba thing.

[Octoberist]

"abusing" isn't the word to use. In fact, it's quite overly dramatic. "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpson quite of dramatic.

Hell, is Nolan a slave to the fans? Let the man do his thing, for God's sakes.

[Katsuro]

What I find amusing is that I can replace the word "Alba" for the word "Ledger" and this looks exactly like the threads over in the FF forums. The same threads that alot of Batfans were ridiculing a couple of years ago.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Pshh, I WISH Jessica Alba was in a homosexual cowboy movie!

[Franklin Richards]

It's exactly like the Alba thing. Heath Ledger is a good actor. I admit. But he's a bit of a robot. Exactly the wrong thing you need for the Joker. Alba was ridiculed for being a body and not right for the part.

Everyone wanted McAdams or Theron and got Alba. Everyone wanted Bettany or Hulme and got something they were NOT expecting. An android.

And when some posters over at the FF Boards thought they would give Alba a chance, they were ridiculed by alot of Batfans for being "unfaithful" to the source material. Now I see Batfans defending the unlikely choice of Ledger.

I think the comparison holds some weight.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

lol....yeah, I think that would have won the oscar. I mean, ****....ALba....and...well...doesn't really matter who the other girl is, but if she's hot all the better....

[ChrisBaleBatman]

It's exactly like the Alba thing. Heath Ledger is a good actor. I admit. But he's a bit of a robot. Exactly the wrong thing you need for the Joker. Alba was ridiculed for being a body and not right for the part.

Everyone wanted McAdams or Theron and got Alba. Everyone wanted Bettany or Hulme and got something they were NOT expecting. An android.

And when some posters over at the FF Boards thought they would give Alba a chance, they were ridiculed by alot of Batfans for being "unfaithful" to the source material. Now I see Batfans defending the unlikely choice of Ledger.

I think the comparison holds some weight.


Android?

Whoa.....maybe you should hit the Trek forums or something......

I really don't think the comparisons hold much weight, b/c for one....ALL of the casts for Batman Begins were unlikely. Except for Bale, who....c'mon...the man is god.

And....nobody's being ridiculed here. LOTS of fans are accepting it b/c it's a good cast, and....we worship the ground Nolan walks on.

And, the oscar thing again...it counts for something.

[Franklin Richards]

You're saying that Oldman is an unlikey casting choice?

Caine?
Freeman?
Neeson?

Dude, wake up!

As for The Oscar thing. I got two words.

Marisa Tomei

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Galactical]

my cousin thinks He'd make a good Robin.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, not all.

Caine, got heat for not being Gough. Oldman got heat b/c he was playing a good guy. Neeson got heat b/c he'd played the "teacher" role before, Murphy got heat for not being 6'8 and being too "pretty".

Yes....those casts got heat. More than people remember. So....uh....dude, wake up on that.

Marisa Tomei

****ing hot, son. I'd hit that in a milisecond....

[ChrisBaleBatman]

my cousin thinks He'd make a good Robin.


You mean Nightwing, don't you. He's too old to play Robin......

[Franklin Richards]

I can see that the Rose Colored Glasses you wear have blinded you to the truth. So much that you are rewriting history.

Go to the FF Forums and read some of those responses. Then you'll know what "heat" really is. A few smarmy remarks does not add up to heat. The Batfans were sucking Nolans dick from day one. As soon as everyone found out about Bale. I think your revisionist ideas are completely exagerated.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[BatJeff7786]

With so much talk about Bettany and Hulme, how could you NOT expect them to cast someone else? If people talk too much about one person it always seems like the opposite is chosen, which is what happened

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I'm not saying the heat is as bad as over at the "warzone" FF boards. Infact, I'm saying what's going on here was NOTHING alike.

But, I am saying that the heat Ledger is getting is about the same we've seen before, here on THE BAT BOARDS. That's all.

And, yeah....I think we've got reason to suck on him, I mean...he cast Bale. That earned him like 100,000,000 points right off the bat. Genuis. Plus, he's a really good director.

But, don't kid yourself dude.....not every move Nolan made for BB was welcomed with magically open arms as you imagine.

This a'int the FF boards......that's all I'm saying. So, the cuthroat attitude just isn't as you describe.

[Franklin Richards]

Admittedly most of what I see is the business end of the gun when it comes to Batfans. But my original argument stands.

For the apologists who are saying give Ledger a chance. It sounds alot like what a few of us were trying to say when Alba was cast.

It just sounds funny coming from the Batfans is all I'm saying. Especially since they would string me and some others up for saying the same thing in the past.

I'm just keeping an eye out. It amuses me. :D

No hard feelings. But I will be hiding in the corner and laughing. Heh.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[xwolverine2]

how EXACTLY do you abuse your OWN reputation?

[Jack Napier]

What's great about Nolan is that he served us a Batman movie that was faithful to the comics, all the while being totally original. We had never seen a Batman film like that. It worked astronomically well.
I've never really approved of the "IN NOLAN WE TRUST" crap, not because it's blind faith though. At this point, I'd let Nolan do what he wants with the series. When they were midway through postproduction on BB, I was skeptical of the batmobile. Won over. Skeptical of the batsuit. Won over. I don't approve of the "IN NOLAN WE TRUST" banner, because in a way, it's people's way of saying "I trust you to make the Batman movie I want to see. I want to see Bettany as the Joker, so Nolan will make it right. I want the Joker to kill off Rachel, I trust that Nolan will work that into the story." Let the man make his movie.
If this was '89, and you were all this involved with THAT Batman movie, every single one of you would be disappointed. What good would it do you to know the plot to that, that Joker kills Grissom, the Joker poisons people? Walk into the movie and be surprised, that's the magic of the experience!

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Admittedly most of what I see is the business end of the gun when it comes to Batfans. But my original argument stands.

For the apologists who are saying give Ledger a chance. It sounds alot like what a few of us were trying to say when Alba was cast.

It just sounds funny coming from the Batfans is all I'm saying. Especially since they would string me and some others up for saying the same thing in the past.

I'm just keeping an eye out. It amuses me. :D

No hard feelings. But I will be hiding in the corner and laughing. Heh.


That doesn't make much sense......

I mean, have you been to the Superman boards at all? Go there, and you'll see alot of the things your talking about.

Got to any of these boards. It happens to every character, every film....Bat-fans are no exception.

But, I guess Bat-fans kinda have a great rep on these boards.

[Franklin Richards]

Shall I dumb it down for you?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, you could dumb down the crazy.....

[xwolverine2]

It's exactly like the Alba thing. Heath Ledger is a good actor. I admit. But he's a bit of a robot. Exactly the wrong thing you need for the Joker. Alba was ridiculed for being a body and not right for the part.

Everyone wanted McAdams or Theron and got Alba. Everyone wanted Bettany or Hulme and got something they were NOT expecting. An android.

THERON IS AN ANDROID!!!:mad: :o :down

LOL...please keep posting....you make me laugh:D

[Franklin Richards]

A while back...

Joe FFfan : We should give Alba a chance.
LouBatfan : You are an idiot!

Now...

LouBatfan : We should give Ledger a chance.
JoeFFfan : WTF?


How's that?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Franklin Richards]

THERON IS AN ANDROID!!!:mad: :o :down

LOL...please keep posting....you make me laugh:D

Didn't Theron get an Oscar?

Doesn't being nominated or getting an Oscar immediately make you a good actor? That's what I keep hearing about Ledger.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[xwolverine2]

When they were midway through postproduction on BB, I was skeptical of the batmobile. Won over. Skeptical of the batsuit. Won over. I don't approve of the "IN NOLAN WE TRUST" banner, because in a way, it's people's way of saying "I trust you to make the Batman movie I want to see. I want to see Bettany as the Joker, so Nolan will make it right. I want the Joker to kill off Rachel, I trust that Nolan will work that into the story." Let the man make his movie.

im not sure i see your position in the situation....


i loved the batmobile/suit/bale at first sight......in production i saw nothin but gold.

now heath comes along:(

[xwolverine2]

Didn't Theron get an Oscar?

Doesn't being nominated or getting an Oscar immediately make you a good actor? That's what I keep hearing about Ledger.


:ff: :ff: :ff:
THATS BULL****!!..... uma thurman got screwed.that was the day i completely ended whatever trust i had with the oscars.

oscars mean ****!!....

and please......dont make me say why heath won an oscar

[ChrisBaleBatman]

So......you got it out for Bat-fans b/c a Bat-fan offended you?

That's kinda petty, dude.

And, ONE fan doesn't stand for MILLIONS. I think most REAL Bat-fans were too focused and obsessed with Batman Begins to even care about what was going on with FF.

Seriously......c'mon, you gotta get past that stuff. I mean, that EXACT convo has happened in EVERY board when a cast was made. Superman boards are a clear cut of it.

Oh, and...what the ****? Why you gotta name the Bat-fan Lou? FF fans get a good name like Joe....I mean, what about a good 'ol american name like Steve....or Jack......or Bob?

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Didn't Theron get an Oscar?

Doesn't being nominated or getting an Oscar immediately make you a good actor? That's what I keep hearing about Ledger.


Well, have you seen the movie? I mean.....unless he bought the nomination....

And Theron did a good job in MONSTER, did she not?

[Franklin Richards]

Heh heh. Just yankin' your chain.

And he lost. Was just nominated. Hoffman won.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

JUST nominated?

Well....I think it's still worth mentioning, since it's something most ads, commericals, and hype would lean on.......I mean, it does count for something.

[xwolverine2]

So......you got it out for Bat-fans b/c a Bat-fan offended you?

if by batman fan you mean:

people who for a year now have a BULLETPROOF idea of how they want joker to be........"BETTANY!!...ECCELSON(?)!!....robin!!:( "......

then......-HEATH IS JOKER-

"oh.......this is awesome!!".....
like where they brainwashed by WB or something?:confused:

......:then yes

[Franklin Richards]

So......you got it out for Bat-fans b/c a Bat-fan offended you?

Not all Batfans. Just the hypocrites.

That's kinda petty, dude.

Hell yeah.

And, ONE fan doesn't stand for MILLIONS. I think most REAL Bat-fans were too focused and obsessed with Batman Begins to even care about what was going on with FF.

Oh no. They had plenty of time to come over and rag FF.

Seriously......c'mon, you gotta get past that stuff. I mean, that EXACT convo has happened in EVERY board when a cast was made. Superman boards are a clear cut of it.

That's why I'm pointing out the hypocrisy. It fills the space between.

Oh, and...what the ****? Why you gotta name the Bat-fan Lou? FF fans get a good name like Joe....I mean, what about a good 'ol american name like Steve....or Jack......or Bob?

I like Lou!!!



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[xwolverine2]

JUST nominated?

Well....I think it's still worth mentioning, since it's something most ads, commericals, and hype would lean on.......I mean, it does count for something.
the average audience (RETARDS) dont know that the oscars are all bull****

[Franklin Richards]

Well, have you seen the movie? I mean.....unless he bought the nomination....

And Theron did a good job in MONSTER, did she not?

I liked both their performances in both movies. I just think Ledger is a wrong fit for Joker.

But I could be wrong. I haven't seen him play such an animated character in the past.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[xwolverine2]

I just think Ledger is a wrong fit for Joker.

But I could be wrong. I haven't seen him play such an animated character in the past.

xwolverine2 agrees.


i bet you if/when a few weeks ago someone would mention that they would like heath to play joker...people would be like "OMGZ HELL NO!...thank god nolan doesnt listen to your crazy ass".

sad:(

[Parker]

the average audience (RETARDS) dont know that the oscars are all bull****

:D :up:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

if by batman fan you mean:

people who for a year now have a BULLETPROOF idea of how they want joker to be........"BETTANY!!...ECCELSON(?)!!....robin!!:( "......

then......-HEATH IS JOKER-

"oh.......this is awesome!!".....
like where they brainwashed by WB or something?:confused:

......:then yes

Well, I actually wanted Brody.....but, I think it's a good casting choice. Not my first choice, but it's a good choice. I mean....trust me, if it were a bad one.....this entire board would shake like the mighty hell of a thousand storms.

And, this kinda kicks down what Richards was saying, doesn't it? I mean....he was saying that this was getting the same reaction as the Alba thing....so....wtf?

Oh, and US trusting Chris Nolan is part of what's going on here. We TRUST his judgement and we TRUST his direction. That's why nobody's killing themselves over this.

Yet, atleast. But there's been a few reported missing....:up:

Not all Batfans. Just the hypocrites.

Okay.

Hell yeah.


Well, that's good.


Oh no. They had plenty of time to come over and rag FF


LOL..........Okay......

[B]That's why I'm pointing out the hypocrisy. It fills the space between.


And...so, what? Nothing wrong with that.......I guess.......

I like Lou!!!



Change it to Steve, and less people might be angry.

the average audience (RETARDS) dont know that the oscars are all bull****

Good for them.

I liked both their performances in both movies. I just think Ledger is a wrong fit for Joker.

But I could be wrong. I haven't seen him play such an animated character in the past.


Well, then that would suggest that he's got quite some acting to do....heh?

Nolan cast him, and considering how he NAILED every character down to they're comic counterparts....it's hard to doubt the man this time out.

What do you know about the Joker?B]

[ChrisBaleBatman]

xwolverine2 agrees.


i bet you if/when a few weeks ago someone would mention that they would like heath to play joker...people would be like "OMGZ HELL NO!...thank god nolan doesnt listen to your crazy ass".

sad:(

Don't cry.....please, God all mighty....don't cry....

[Raiden]

It's exactly like the Alba thing. Heath Ledger is a good actor. I admit. But he's a bit of a robot. Exactly the wrong thing you need for the Joker. Alba was ridiculed for being a body and not right for the part.

Everyone wanted McAdams or Theron and got Alba. Everyone wanted Bettany or Hulme and got something they were NOT expecting. An android.

And when some posters over at the FF Boards thought they would give Alba a chance, they were ridiculed by alot of Batfans for being "unfaithful" to the source material. Now I see Batfans defending the unlikely choice of Ledger.

I think the comparison holds some weight.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Ledger, an android? Maybe you should check some of the movies he did, like The Patriot, Brothers Grimm, and Ten Things I Hate About You.

Ledger is far from being an android.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, maybe he was sent from the future to kill John Connor......

[xwolverine2]

Brothers Grimm,

HELL NO!!!

Don't cry.....please, God all mighty....don't cry....
I WASTED MY MONEY ON Brothers Grimm!!:(

-cries-

[CConn]

A while back...

Joe FFfan : We should give Alba a chance.
LouBatfan : You are an idiot!

Now...

LouBatfan : We should give Ledger a chance.
JoeFFfan : WTF?


How's that?


:ff: :ff: :ff:LouBatfan: 1
JoeFFfan: 0

:o

[Franklin Richards]

Well considering I have a Masters Degree in Theatre, I think I know a little bit about acting and I'm telling you with that monotone delivery of Ledger's his acting style is robot-like. He did good in his films but he wasn't being asked to play such a bigger than life character like the Joker.

90% of film and theatre is casting. I think he was miscast.

What do I know about The Joker? I've been reading comics for thirty years. I think I know a little about The Joker. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

LouBatfan: 1
JoeFFfan: 0

:o

:up:


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, he was pretty good in that. It's kinda like Jackman in Van Helsing.....I mean, the premise and execution kinda blew....but the actors did pretty well with what they had.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What do I know about The Joker? I've been reading comics for thirty years. I think I know a little about The Joker. :D


That wasn't what I asked though......your very cynical man.

[xwolverine2]

Well, he was pretty good in that. It's kinda like Jackman in Van Helsing.....I mean, the premise and execution kinda blew....but the actors did pretty well with what they had.
he was like a bad acting version of the retard from OF MICE AND MEN(john malchovitz(sp?))

90% of film and theatre is casting
:mad: there is no movie/play without sound/dialog/story/lights

everything is an esemble:o.....

...and heath is the annoying flute player that plays too loud

[Katsuro]

xwolverine2 agrees.


i bet you if/when a few weeks ago someone would mention that they would like heath to play joker...people would be like "OMGZ HELL NO!...thank god nolan doesnt listen to your crazy ass".

sad:(

Well, if some random fan had suggestd Heath Ledger, you'd probably be right. None of us saw Ledger screen test, so there really would've been nothing to suggest he'd be a good Joker. Sure, he has a physical resemblence to the character, but that wouldn't have been enough to sway me off Bettany.

However, if Ledger has indeed been cast, it means that he did screen test, and Nolan was impressed enough to cast him over any other actor in the world, even the great Paul Bettany. So, since he looks like the Joker, and can apparently act like the Joker, why shouldn't I support his casting?

That's what I.N.W.T. means. It means he did a great job on the first one, and we support whatever decisions he might make for the second one and believe he'll make the sequel even better. I never really saw anything in Ledger, but if Nolan did, then I trust that he'll be a good Joker.

[Franklin Richards]

What do you know about the Joker?B]

Sorry. Don't know how I could have misunderstood that.

:p


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

By being cynical, that's how.

I was actually asking the question, not attacking.....jeesshh....I hope all FF fans aren't this antsy....

[xwolverine2]

Well, if some random fan had suggestd Heath Ledger, you'd probably be right. None of us saw Ledger screen test, so there really would've been nothing to suggest he'd be a good Joker. Sure, he has a physical resemblence to the character, but that wouldn't have been enough to sway me off Bettany.

However, if Ledger has indeed been cast, it means that he did screen test, and Nolan was impressed enough to cast him over any other actor in the world, even the great Paul Bettany. So, since he looks like the Joker, and can apparently act like the Joker, why shouldn't I support his casting?

That's what I.N.W.T. means. It means he did a great job on the first one, and we support whatever decisions he might make for the second one and believe he'll make the sequel even better. I never really saw anything in Ledger, but if Nolan did, then I trust that he'll be a good Joker.
yeah but you completely trashed your own opinions.....

like:"WTF WAS I THINKIN WITH BETTANY!....heath is the perfectest! *changes avvy and sig to HEATH RULZ DA BATS*.."

trusting nolan means he will make a great movie.......

but he CAN make mistakes

[xwolverine2]

I hope all FF fans aren't this antsy....
ive never really seen one up until now:confused:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

lol....rare creatures, you think?

[Franklin Richards]

I am what the Batfans made me. Ask CConn how ruthless things were.

"Ya see, kids are like dogs. You beat them long enough, pretty soon, they'll think they deserve it." --- Sawyer.

:D

Also, you should lighten up a bit, Chris. I've been putting a crap load of smilies in so that you would understand that I'm just having a friendly debate. It's hard to express an air of calm with only text.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Katsuro]

yeah but you completely trashed your own opinions.....

like:"WTF WAS I THINKIN WITH BETTANY!....heath is the perfectest! *changes avvy and sig to HEATH RULZ DA BATS*.."

trusting nolan means he will make a great movie.......

but he CAN make mistakes

What's wrong with someone being able to accept that their personal first choice didn't make it, and just be happy that someone decent did. Yeah, I could be upset Bettany didn't get the role, but I could also be glad Robin Williams didn't.

I still think Bettany would be a damn good Joker, but he didn't get the role and there's really no point in campaigning for him anymore. I said long ago that even if Bettany didn't make it, while I would be dissappointed a bit, i'd most likely accept Nolan's choice.

[xwolverine2]

lol....rare creatures, you think?
"welcome to jurassic park" - old guy

Also, you should lighten up a bit, Chris.
stop saying chris

[Franklin Richards]

Also, you should lighten up a bit, Jerk.


How's that?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[xwolverine2]

i'd most likely accept Nolan's choice.
you and every bat-crazy(:D ) would accept it no matter what

[Katsuro]

you and every bat-crazy(:D ) would accept it no matter what

No. If he cast someone like, say, Crispin Glover, i would realize that Christopher Nolan has lost his mind and gone insane, and would not support his decision. But he dind't do that, he cast someone who although i have no indication that he would make a good Joker, I also have no indication that he wouldn't. That's basically my stance on Ledger. I dont know that he can play Joker, but I dont know that he can't. So if Nolan thinks he can, then maybe he can. Does that confuse you?

[xwolverine2]

No. If he cast someone like, say, Crispin Glover, i would realize that Christopher Nolan has lost his mind and gone insane, and would not support his decision. But he dind't do that, he cast someone who although i have no indication that he would make a good Joker, I also have no indication that he wouldn't. That's basically my stance on Ledger. I dont know that he can play Joker, but I dont know that he can't. So if Nolan thinks he can, then maybe he can. Does that confuse you?
nah it doesnt...... though the looping got me dizzy for a while:(

i might be okay if ive seen a movie where he has a personality like joker.
let me explain with an example.

(in no way do i hate keanu)......heath is like keanu reeves,in the way that he almost plays the same person in every movie but with a slight difference that still hooks you.

keanu can never be joker

[Tanin]

you and every bat-crazy(:D ) would accept it no matter what


I'm just glad that Ghost Rider has a flaming head. The less Nic Cage in the movie the better! :eek:

[xwolverine2]

I'm just glad that Ghost Rider has a flaming head. The less Nic Cage in the movie the better! :eek:
:o :down that was completely random and uneccesary!:ghost:

GR has done nothin but be as faithful as BB is:mad: .......

franklin complains about FF.......but look at the GR people!

[Tanin]

:o :down that was completely random and uneccesary!:ghost:

GR has done nothin but be as faithful as BB is:mad: .......

franklin complains about FF.......but look at the GR people!

Ghostrider actually looks really good. Except the whole flaming skull thing.

But that is more cause I'm not used to seeing a guy walking about with a flaming skull :ghost:

[xwolverine2]

Ghostrider actually looks really good. Except the whole flaming skull thing.
But that is more cause I'm not used to seeing a guy walking about with a flaming skull :ghost:
there is no GR without the flamming skull!!!!:ghost: :ghost: :ghost:

[Tanin]

Heath's screen test better of been better than Jack's if he is going to pull this off.

[Katsuro]

nah it doesnt...... though the looping got me dizzy for a while:(

i might be okay if ive seen a movie where he has a personality like joker.
let me explain with an example.

(in no way do i hate keanu)......heath is like keanu reeves,in the way that he almost plays the same person in every movie but with a slight difference that still hooks you.

keanu can never be joker

Lords of Dogtown.

[xwolverine2]

Lords of Dogtown.
there is no measure as to how much i loathed the commercials for that movie

[LadyVader]

nah it doesnt...... though the looping got me dizzy for a while:(

i might be okay if ive seen a movie where he has a personality like joker.
let me explain with an example.

(in no way do i hate keanu)......heath is like keanu reeves,in the way that he almost plays the same person in every movie but with a slight difference that still hooks you.

keanu can never be joker

Pray tell, how are Ennis del Mar and William Thatcher the same person? How are Patrick Verona and Ned Kelly the same person?
Just because he hasn't played a villain doesn't mean he plays the same person.

[Tanin]

there is no measure as to how much i loathed the commercials for that movie

I agree. Might be Heath's best performance. But I ****ing hate skateboarding.

[xwolverine2]

Pray tell, how are Ennis del Mar and William Thatcher the same person? How are Patrick Verona and Ned Kelly the same person?
Just because he hasn't played a villain doesn't mean he plays the same person.
keanu doesnt play the same person......he just plays different people in his same style.

unlike johnny depp....hes like mystique. i bet he could play an oscar worthy hooker too.


heath hasnt really been mystique-ish in all his roles.

[xwolverine2]

I agree. Might be Heath's best performance. But I ****ing hate skateboarding.
INDEED:o :mad:

[LadyVader]

keanu doesnt play the same person......he just plays different people in his same style.

unlike johnny depp....hes like mystique. i bet he could play an oscar worthy hooker too.


heath hasnt really been mystique-ish in all his roles.

Keanu is low key. He never plays it over the top, that much I'll give ya.

But Heath is not like that. He can lose himself completely in his roles like he did in Brokeback and in Brothers Grimm (despite it being a giant POS movie, I feel Ledger turned in a very good erformance). I haven't seen Lords of Dogtown yet, but you have made me very curious. Anyway, I don't think it's fair to compare him to Depp either. Depp hasn't always been the skilled actor he is now. Could you imagine the kid playing Edward Scissorhands years ago one day being able to do a character like Jack Sparrow?

[xwolverine2]

He can lose himself completely in his roles like he did in Brokeback and in Brothers Grimm (despite it being a giant POS movie, I Could you imagine the kid playing Edward Scissorhands years ago one day being able to do a character like Jack Sparrow?
i didnt see BBM but i saw clips on every late night show and he just had his head low and with a sad face the whole time.im sorry but he sucked in BG because it just had a ****ty script

and yes johnny has always completely gotten into his roles.. and thats a fact.
even the little ones like sleepy hollow.

[The Kid]

So some are a fearing nolan's going to pull a Batman Returns and make batman more in his vision than the comics'?

I welcome it.

[Dark Knight]

Some of you need to relax and just trust Nolan......

[xwolverine2]

So some are a fearing nolan's going to pull a Batman Returns and make batman more in his vision than the comics'?

I welcome it.
batman returns wasnt bad

[Galactical]

Indeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeed.

[mcflytrap]

Well considering I have a Masters Degree in Theatre, I think I know a little bit about acting and I'm telling you with that monotone delivery of Ledger's his acting style is robot-like. He did good in his films but he wasn't being asked to play such a bigger than life character like the Joker.

90% of film and theatre is casting. I think he was miscast.

What do I know about The Joker? I've been reading comics for thirty years. I think I know a little about The Joker. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Oooh, a master's degree in theater. Aren't you the chump?

[COME ON !]

Oooh, a master's degree in theater. Aren't you the chump?

I got a good laugh from this comment:up: :D

[Darknightnomis]

batman returns wasnt bad

No, but it wasn't good either....at least compared with the original one.

It was too weird, too inconsistance, and too much of Tim Burton's zanniness to be a good BATMAN movie. He had to much of his own "out-there" visions in that movie and not enough of Batman Lore.

Penguins in a sewer. Ugh.

A mutate Oswald Copperpot Penguin with black goo sprewing out his mouth with a birthright complex? What the...

Resurrection of Selina Kyle from falling from a building by alley cats? Okay that was kinda cool.

And we knew more about the Penguin and Catwoman than we did of Batman in that movie. All Batman really was was the clean up man in that movie.

People forget how much a bad taste 'Batman Returns' left in the mouth of a lot of movie goers and fans mainly because 'Batman and Robin' was beyond bad. Which is why the when in another direction in the style of movie and new director for 'Batman Forever'

I have faith and trust that Nolan will not follow the same pattern that Burton did and learn from the mistatkes of the past movie Batman series.

[The Only Woj]

So some are a fearing nolan's going to pull a Batman Returns and make batman more in his vision than the comics'?

I welcome it.

Nolan already made the film exactly the way he wanted in the first one. Burton had to deal heavily with Jon Peters and the studio in #1 before getting complete control in #2. Nolan already has the control.

[Darknightnomis]

Nolan already made the film exactly the way he wanted in the first one. Burton had to deal heavily with Jon Peters and the studio in #1 before getting complete control in #2. Nolan already has the control.

Exactly. Nolan don't need to strugle with a producer's vision on the direction of the movie because the Studio have already given him absolute control of everything and we have the brillant 'Batman Begins' becasue of it and my eternal thanks.

By the way, Jon Peters help to reign in some of the weirdness that Burton originally wanted to put in the first Batman movie, but becasue it was so phenominally successful the studios thought he could do no wrong for the sequel and why Batman Returns is so weird and more of his vision.

If you have the special edition DVDs of the Batman movies that came out last year there are some very revealing updated interviews of the movies on the extras DVD of the acotrs and the people behind the scenes and how they really feel about some of the decisions that was made for those movies.

Sam Hamm couldn't distance himself further from the decision to have Joker kill the Waynes.

And if you can stomach the 'Batman and Robin' interviews you will actually hear Joe Shcumacher apologize for the film. its' almost worth it.

[Galactical]

freeze! put the straw-men down. What I think he's saying is that Nolan could possibly, like burton, might want to stray away from the source a little more in the next than he did in the first.

If he does, it'd be interesting. I'd give his interpretation a chance.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

But, Batman Begins is HIS interpretation. A blend of the comics with hyper realism.

No, as far as what rumors say....he's got his brother and Goyer really going into the Batman Comics vault looking for stuff. The same way they did with Batman Begins.

I mean, why fix what isn't broke?

Nolan understands that for it to work, he NEEDS to stay true to the source. That's why Batman Begins pwned all, that's why it was such a sucess, and that's why fans now worship the ground he walks on.

So, I really wouldn't worry. It'd say it's very certain he'll keep to the source material. That's why David Goyer is still onboard.

[Batty Belfry]

And if you can stomach the 'Batman and Robin' interviews you will actually hear Joe Shcumacher apologize for the film. its' almost worth it.

That's funny! I'm sorry you are sitting on your couch right now watching my horrible movie. I'm sorry you only bought it complete your collection. LOL!

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah, he made excuses too. He kinda blamed WB a bit. He even tosses his darker films, like 8MM, at us as to tell us he CAN do dark films.

But, he never actually says sorry in the commentary. He does say sorry in the featurette on the dvd though. It was tough for him, but he did it.

It saved his life, b/c it finally called off fanboys who'd hired hitmen.

Well, his apology and Batman Begins. Those two called off the hitmen. Probably more Batman Begins, though.

[heypapajinx]

man, i think there's a reason he makes trillions of dollars doing what he's doing. and his careers on the line if he makes a bad choice and the movie bombs.
plus! what good is power if you can't abuse it just a little.?

[regwec]

I don't think that Nolan has a duty to listen to us, but I do think that he has a duty to talk to us. The casting of Ledger in a plum role should have been supported by a public announcement, an explanation, and maybe even an interview with a fan-news source. This would have helped us to understand his reasoning, and probably would have enthused us for the film much more during our long wait. Instead, it feels as if this milestone was not even worthy of comment, and that our faith in the director and his vision is being rewarded with neglect and silence. I don't find that to be satisfactory.

[explode7]

^Why not give us a trailer while your're at it.

[SentinelMind]

^LOL.exactly.A good director doesn't have to make an announcement after every rumor hits.

Did Raimi make an announcement when rumors of Topher Grace being Venom. No, and look how things have changed in SM3 forum after that announcement.

[GEDRedemption]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

I'm sorry. i just had to get that off my chest.

Nolan has been quoted as saying "everyone can expect what Bettany or [Hugo] Weaving will bring to the table as Joker. With Heath, everyone's going to be in for a big surprise"

[Katsuro]

Nolan has been quoted as saying "everyone can expect what Bettany or [Hugo] Weaving will bring to the table as Joker. With Heath, everyone's going to be in for a big surprise"

I'd love to know where you got that quote. Nolan hasn't even confirmed he's been cast, let alone commented on his reasons for it.

[Octoberist]

I really think that the person who made this thread was very very dramatic. I swear...

[Eros]

Nolan is not abuseing his "Power" if you call a mildly succesfull Batman movie power. What he needs do, is make a batman movie that can appeal to more then one group of people. Take away the batman character from the movie, and leave only Bruce Wayne, Begins turns into a urban crime drama film. The second movie needs to be less "realistic" and actually have a real Batmobile, with cool gadgets. That tumbler crap is to high profile for a detctive, he can't sneak into anywhere driving an army vechile. The fightscenes were badly shot, and look like student films. The editing and certain real effects looked terrible, 150 millions dollars and yet Nolan can't spend it properly.

[Two-Face]

That tumbler crap is to high profile for a detctive, he can't sneak into anywhere driving an army vechile. The fightscenes were badly shot, and look like student films. The editing and certain real effects looked terrible, 150 millions dollars and yet Nolan can't spend it properly.


......

[COME ON !]

Nolan is not abuseing his "Power" if you call a mildly succesfull Batman movie power. What he needs do, is make a batman movie that can appeal to more then one group of people. Take away the batman character from the movie, and leave only Bruce Wayne, Begins turns into a urban crime drama film. The second movie needs to be less "realistic" and actually have a real Batmobile, with cool gadgets. That tumbler crap is to high profile for a detctive, he can't sneak into anywhere driving an army vechile. The fightscenes were badly shot, and look like student films. The editing and certain real effects looked terrible, 150 millions dollars and yet Nolan can't spend it properly.

You make me sad:(

[fabman]

eros... what y said is BS ;)

[Octoberist]

eros has his opinion. But he's making as if Nolan failed on the movie.

Not everyone can like the movie but thankfully, Batman Begins is an universally loved movie.

[regwec]

Well, I suppose the fact that Ledger may well not have accepted the part explains Chris's silence. Jett really needs to apply a little more restraint to his reportage of rumours.

[Cinemaman]

I think nobody knows will Ledger sign or not.

Even Nlan is waiting.

But if Ledger doesn't sign, Nolan should hurry to find his Joker until November.

[LostSon88]

I'm a little upset over the casting of Ledger as Joker, although I would have preferred Lachy Hulme or even Paul Bettany. But the main reason I'm mad is because Nolan just picked Ledger out of the blue and we had knowledge of this what so ever. Now I may sound whiny like, "Nolan should listen to the fans first." But thats not the case.

So?

Nolan built up a reputation with Batman Begins. He listened to the fans for casting choices before making his own. He went over to DC comic writers to ask for their approval before making any neccassary changes. My point is, it seems that Nolan is taking advantage of his status as a director. Many fans put their faith into Nolan, accepting mostly anything that will be developed in BB2. But now its like a stab in the back. Its like Nolan doesn't care who the fans want as Joker.

You didn't take part in the development of Batman Begins...STOP acting like you did.

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film. But Nolan should have kept the fans informed that Ledger was a candidate. Its like he's forgetting to do everything that made BB such a huge success.

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion? He's a critically acclaimed Hollywood director. Get off your high horse and come back down to reality with the rest of us.

We're fanboys...not executives of DC or the WB. Nolan doesn't have to answer to any of us about anything.

[Swordmaster]

It's funny, looking back on this thread and seeing all the skepticism over Heath's casting when, now, there's almost universal praise for the role.

Things like this is one of the many things I'll miss after the movie comes out :(

[ActuallyRobin]

what a funny old thread.

[android fusion]

Wow, it is pretty interesting to look back on!

I have a question. Can someone link me to the 1st thread where people talked about the 1st revealing of Heath's joker from WSS? And a link to the 1st thread when Heath was 1st announced as the Joker?

[batman44]

LOL, this thread is quite hilarious to read now.

[android fusion]

Bale Vs Heath won't make a good on screen presentation. I just don't see it.

Even back then, Explode7 said the most wrong things.

[JokerLedger]

This thread proves the ignorance of fanboys :)

[turtlefocker]

what a bunch of fools

[Batman713]

^ yea, and the threadstarter sounds like a total *****

[TheDarkVictory]

i love the threadstarter's current avvy is ledger joker and his signature is all about ledger...how opinions change...goes to show some fanboys should just wait before they run their mouths off..i hope this guy is kicking himself.

[StillTheKing]

People who doubted Heath will never admit it. Quite funny actually (the majority of people wont admit it)

[Swordmaster]

I'm actually good friends with Dark Phantom, and he really has come around to praising Ledger's Joker whole heartedly, from what he's seen

This thread was just to good to let die :o

[Marvolo]

I will admit I had my doubts about Heath as the joker, and I am glad to say that I was wrong. Heath has turned at to be perfect casting. Thanks for the hard work, and dedication you put into the role!:)

[Keyser Soze]

HAHA! Awesome thread bump!

Dark Phantom, Franklin Richards, xwolverine2, take the walk of shame. :woot:

[Keyser Soze]

EDIT: So nice I said it twice.

[Andrex]

Maybe Ledger was really good in his screentest and Nolan saw something. Maybe Ledger will prove me wrong and make a great Joker in the film.

This is so funny. It's ironic coming from someone who now has a Ledger avatar and mentions Ledger twice in his sig. XD

THIS is why people sometimes don't listen to fans. Fanboys can be whiny, self-centered little ingrates who don't really know what's best usually. Sometimes it takes more courage and conviction to stand up for your own choices than cave into retarded whining such as this.

[regwec]

Or alternatively, they are often right and some were merely proven wrong in this instance.

[SuperHotSexyGuy]

Well considering I have a Masters Degree in Theatre, I think I know a little bit about acting and I'm telling you with that monotone delivery of Ledger's his acting style is robot-like. He did good in his films but he wasn't being asked to play such a bigger than life character like the Joker.

90% of film and theatre is casting. I think he was miscast.

What do I know about The Joker? I've been reading comics for thirty years. I think I know a little about The Joker. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:



LOL where did you get your master's degree from? :huh:

[Boom]

You guys think this ****'s funny, try digging up the "Latino Review: Heath Ledger is The Joker" thread from two years ago.

[Andrex]

Or alternatively, they are often right and some were merely proven wrong in this instance.

Nah. Every single time when it's either "Wait and see" vs. "OMG FREAKOUT NERD RAGE", wait and see is always the best option. Always.

[regwec]

Except that many people opt for the third option, hailing every dingle studio decision as inspired.

TDK looks to be very good, so this appears less blatant at this stage, but a synoptical reading of the course of message board commentary for a movie like Spiderman 3 or Superman Returns makes it quite obvious.

[sarg2k]

I didnt realise this is an old thread, I got to page 3 and I was like wtf?!

I finally woke up and read the dates of the posts.

That will teach me to have a hang over

[Batmania]

Amusing reading. :woot:

Although, I have to say, the majority of the early replies (didn't read thru the whole thread) were quite mature and dare I say...sensible regarding Ledger's casting. Give yourselves a pat on the back, lol. ;)

[android fusion]

Amusing reading. :woot:

Although, I have to say, the majority of the early replies (didn't read thru the whole thread) were quite mature and dare I say...sensible regarding Ledger's casting. Give yourselves a pat on the back, lol. ;)
Well the majority of people on here, are very intelligent, open-minded people. It's a shame that the select few, are the ones that give all us fan boys a bad name, with their close-mindedness.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

WOW how did this thread come back?

[kyuubijavi1]

x]
i bet the guy who made this thread wishes he could take it back
but you know every one was like Ledger???
and the only response was Nolan knows what hes doing
but.. Damn! He knew exactly what he was doing, everything shown by Ledger is gold and I gotta agree with Leterman they should of made a spin off movie of just the Joker ( Played by Heath of course ) I would of so seen that movie xD

[Octoberist]

LOL where did you get your master's degree from? :huh:

Wait. are you actually responding to a quote from 2006? lol

[Hole Shot]

Well the majority of people on here, are very intelligent, open-minded people.

OMGZ WUT SUPURHERO HIPE BORED DO YOU REED???1!!!

[Mister J]

Wait. are you actually responding to a quote from 2006? lol
:lmao:

[jm9843]

Wait. are you actually responding to a quote from 2006? lol

His post was likely for comedic effect, at least I hope so.

[Sun_Down]

Or alternatively, they are often right and some were merely proven wrong in this instance.

Except that many people opt for the third option, hailing every dingle studio decision as inspired.

TDK looks to be very good, so this appears less blatant at this stage, but a synoptical reading of the course of message board commentary for a movie like Spiderman 3 or Superman Returns makes it quite obvious.

LMAO, it's funny to see people like you continue to defend fanboy whining, while ignoring the real point. Sure, fanboys can be right when it comes to obvious things, like FF2 being an unholy mess. But that's something anyone can see.

The point here is that people like you jump to premature negative conclusions based on their own ego and sense of somehow being wronged. That sort of immature whining just takes a big old *****slap when you look at a thread like this. You lose. Deal with it.

[Keyser Soze]

LMAO, it's funny to see people like you continue to defend fanboy whining, while ignoring the real point. Sure, fanboys can be right when it comes to obvious things, like FF2 being an unholy mess. But that's something anyone can see.

The point here is that people like you jump to premature negative conclusions based on their own ego and sense of somehow being wronged. That sort of immature whining just takes a big old *****slap when you look at a thread like this. You lose. Deal with it.

I wouldn't go that far. In this thread at least, regwec kept an open mind, being cautious about putting himself on either side of the fence. So I'd hardly say this thread is of any relevance to his later grievances with The Joker in this film.

[regwec]

Thanks, Keyser. Sometimes its nice not to be obliged to converse with illiterate riff-raff like that. :)