The Che Guevara Thread

[Man-Thing]

http://che-mart.com/images/Che_carkeys.jpg
Che Guevara is the Great Salesman of Communism. He started his glamorous life by killing people who didn't buy his ideas of universal happiness and equality. Although this selling method worked well in South American and African countries, young Ernesto quickly realized that to conquer the world he had to learn other techniques.

He noticed that in the Land of Big Capital some idealistic college students, as well as pimple faced white middleclass teens had already begun to put his unwashed visage on their T-shirts and dorm room walls. Bingo! Like all communists faced with the prospect of making a few dollars, Che decided to try his hand at the mysterious entity known as "work" and "business investment".

A brilliant salesman, Che performed an ingenious maneuver by faking his own death and thus achieving the Jim Morrison type icon status. As the progressive world mourned and idolized his image, Che quietly started printing his own T-shirts in the humble basement of a Bogota Laundromat.

http://che-mart.com/images/Shirt_blood.jpg

At first the process involved dunking his head in a bucket of ox blood and physically pressing his face on the T-shirt. After sales began to pick up he was able to apply for a small business loan and purchased a screen printing machine.

Che has marketed his brand name brilliantly over the years, selling to specific niche in the market: young people who have no clue what Che has done or what he stands for. The cash keeps flowing as most college dorms world-wide are being adorned with his face, and more and more middle class sons and daughters wear Che products in order to, among other things, wash away the guilt of their well-heeled upbringing.

"It's just cool to wear my stuff. Who cares what I'm about!" says a confident Guevara from his 36th floor office of his world headquarters on Madison Avenue in New York City. His unique product sells solely on popularity, coolness and young people looking to gain acceptance in social circles. "You can essentially turn out complete junk and people will still wear it because they want to be in," declares John Hayden of Consumer Reports magazine.

"Sales go through the roof as anti-war protests grow in popularity!"

In the near future Che-Mart intends to diversify its global image into several different product lines. There's an Apprentice-style TV show called "The Revolutionary" in the pipeline. The show will pit several left-leaning young people against each other, charging them with such tasks as fermenting revolution in small counties, organizing protests against McDonalds and attacking the police. The winner will receive.????

http://che-mart.com/images/Time_Che_sm.jpg

Today Mr. Guevara commands a huge global business empire with offices in New York, Paris, London and Tokyo. He has been featured in Forbes and Fortune magazines no less than 8 times. With houses in New York, Los Angeles and Aspen, Che has come a long way from his humble revolutionary beginnings. His company has been listed in the Fortune 500 for the last 6 years and Che-Mart has been voted one of the Ten Best Employers in the United States. Recently featured in Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, he is an avid collector of fine art and Ferraris. Che spends his spare time on the slopes of Aspen or socializing with his good friend and business associate Donald Trump. With a fleet of Leer jets he is never too far from corporate boardrooms of the world.

The future is looking bright for Che-Mart as the endless supply of liberal college professors and college students will keep his global empire afloat for the foreseeable future.

http://che-mart.com/images/German_Che_sm.jpg

http://che-mart.com/images/Che_site_new_02.gif (http://che-mart.com/)

:up:

[Man-Thing]

Sweatshop Guaranteed!
http://che-mart.com/images/SG.gif

All our products are guaranteed to have been made in the dingiest sweatshops of the world's worst hellholes, improving the living standards one child laborer at a time.

Don't you wish you had a job when you were eight?

Imagine how big your 401(K) would be now! You could retire by 35!

http://che-mart.com/images/Sweatshop.gif
This photo was taken in Mumbai (Bombay) in the region called Kamathipura, the largest red-light district in Asia, home to over 100,000 prostitutes, including 5,000 eunuch-transvestites, a recognized third gender in India. This shop is the size of some larger bathrooms or closets in Upper East Side condos. Many such sweatshops employ people 12-14 hours a day, with virtually no light other than from the sun - 100% energy-efficient and environment-friendly.

[Man-Thing]

Hollywood Loves Che!

http://che-mart.com/images/Che_The_Importance_350.gif

http://che-mart.com/images/SnuggleB_WeekendAtErnies_sm.gif

http://che-mart.com/images/Poster_motorcycle_CheMart_s.jpg

[Hades]

I think you've made your point...

You know, I don't think I've ever seen anyone wear any actuall che merchandise.

[Man-Thing]

Lifestyle (be like Che)

Your Five-Year Plan
At this point in your life you may find yourself deeply embedded in some great academic experience such as college. The lice-ridden pothead in the campus cafeteria pours out his great socialist ideas day after day. Only he and Michael Moore speak the truth; anything else is corporate propaganda. The following is a "how to" guide on being the great socialist you so dearly wish to be (please refer back to this after your first job, first child, first mortgage, and first home. See if you would like to distribute it equally to those who are more deserving).

http://che-mart.com/images/che_Africa.gif

To be like Che we must:

1.Disassociate ourselves from our trust-fund money and middle-class parents.

2.Attain the "I've been in the Amazon jungle for six weeks" look. Those clean clothes from Old Navy aren't going to cut it. Rush out and buy a Che T-shirt first. A bedraggled combat jacket is also essential. Heavy boots are a must.

3.You've had your last wash buddy! From now on all forms of personal hygiene are to be abandoned. Haircuts are a thing of the past.

4.Induce Mom and Pop to buy an old, beat-up Volvo (something from the mid 80s should do). Your fellow revolutionaries dare not see you in the Lexus or the Infinity.

5.If you have to leave the revolution (campus) for a trip home to Mom and Pop (capitalist pigs), try sleeping in the basement or outside with the trash. Your revolutionary look must be kept up at all costs.

6.Endear yourself to your fellow revolutionaries by making up tall stories of a hard life under capitalist oppression. Something along the lines of "my father was small turd farmer in Nebraska until the Republicans ruined everything."

7.Visit Starbucks not more than once a week. That stuff is expensive; you're supposed to behave like a common peasant.

8.Never be seen leaving or entering the bank.

9.Diss America.

10.Develop a mild dependence on recreational substances.

11.Exhibit utter disdain for large corporations, such as, McDonalds (until you seek employment from one, in about five years). If Che were alive today he would be actively fighting against such an "enemy."

12.Your Internet access is strictly for gathering information on the revolution.

13.While on spring break, practice revolutionary skills. Try to collapse the local government with your band of revolutionaries (drunken buffoons). Remember to bring MasterCard or Visa in case of bail.

[Tangled Web]

Ya know, making a thread titled Che Guevara is a communist ***** would have been more effective.

[Slipknot]

...aren't these the same exact pictures you posted in another thread because someone liked Che Guevara?

[kainedamo]

It's weird how incredibly trendy Che t-shirts have become.

Seriously, you can walk into a clothes store, and find a Che t-shirt that's all like... super trendified and stuff. It's just weird, 'cause he's such a big symbol of communism.

[kypade]

I dun really know or care one way or another about him or history or whatever...but I'd wear the tshirt. He's hot.

[kypade]

His little silhouette image is hot, that is.

[IAmHe9]

He is an ******* who, in whole or in part, had to do with the spread of communism throughout central and south america. He helped Castro achieve a regime in Cuba so totalitarian that it'd be more apt to call the Cuban people 'slaves', not 'citizens' or 'comrades'.

[kainedamo]

Ernesto Guevara de la Serna (June 14, 1928Birthdate[›] – October 9, 1967), commonly known as Che Guevara or el Che, was an Argentine-born physician, Marxist, politician, and leader of Cuban and internationalist guerrillas. As a young man studying medicine, Guevara traveled "rough" throughout Latin America, bringing him into direct contact with the poverty in which many people live. Through these experiences he became convinced that only revolution could remedy the region's economic inequality, leading him to study Marxism and become involved in Guatemala's social revolution under President Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán.

Some time later, Guevara became a member of Fidel Castro's paramilitary 26th of July Movement, which seized power in Cuba in 1959. After serving in various important posts in the new government and writing a number of articles and books on the theory and practice of guerrilla warfare, Guevara left Cuba in 1965 with the intention of fomenting revolutions first in the Congo-Kinshasa (later named the Democratic Republic of the Congo) and then in Bolivia, where he was captured in a CIA/ U.S. Army Special Forces-organized military operation. Guevara died at the hands of the Bolivian Army in La Higuera near Vallegrande on October 9, 1967. Participants in, and witnesses to, the events of his final hours testify that his captors executed him without trial.


Che Guevara kicks ass.

[kainedamo]

This is what the whole thing boils down to in simple terms.

As far as I can see, the people that think Che was a bad guy and not a revolutionary, are the same type of people that STILL think communism is a dirty word.

[IAmHe9]

This is what the whole thing boils down to in simple terms.

As far as I can see, the people that think Che was a bad guy and not a revolutionary, are the same type of people that STILL think communism is a dirty word.

Have you ever lived in a communist country?

[kainedamo]

Have you??

Have you ever lived in a communist country?

Translation: Yes, I do still think that communism is a dirty word.

[IAmHe9]

Have you??



Translation: Yes, I do still think that communism is a dirty word.

I don't think it's a dirty word, I think it's a ****ed up way to run a country. I have visited a communist country and have family that have lived there, and if YOU think it's right to have every one be equal (translation: poor) than that's your problem, don't pretend like the entire world thinks communism is the way to go.

[Tangled Web]

Communism sucks, so do most Conservatives.

[IAmHe9]

Communism sucks, so do most Conservatives.

Exactly. Both extremes are terrible. It's kind of odd that I'm arguing against it, because most of my friends know me as the guy that hates huge corporations like Wal-Mart, but everything should be handled in moderation. Communism is not the way.

[kainedamo]

I don't think it's a dirty word, I think it's a ****ed up way to run a country. I have visited a communist country and have family that have lived there, and if YOU think it's right to have every one be equal (translation: poor) than that's your problem, don't pretend like the entire world thinks communism is the way to go.

Which country? How long did they live there? Where exactly did you visit?

Communism ain't perfect, but there are some better ideas in communism than this... false democracy that we have.

[Man-Thing]

https://www.protestwarrior.com/store/files/master/communism.gif

[Tangled Web]

How many US Soldiers have died as a result of Bush and Cheny's greed?

[Corinthian™]

Che Guevara was a hitman

And everyone else needs to die, please

[IAmHe9]

Which country? How long did they live there? Where exactly did you visit?

Communism ain't perfect, but there are some better ideas in communism than this... false democracy that we have.

Havana, Cuba. My grandmother migrated from Europe when she was a little girl, and stayed there until she was about 40. Same story with my grandpa, only he stayed longer. My father lived there from the moment he was born until he was 18. Let me tell you, the things I've seen, and the things I've heard, are enough to make me hate communism with enough passion to kill over. I agree that this is a false democracy, but communism is not the answer. The power should be given to the people, not to oppresors. And save the line about Castro not knowing how to run a communism correctly. His communism is perfect. And all sorts of ****ed up.

[Harlekin]

This is what the whole thing boils down to in simple terms.

As far as I can see, the people that think Che was a bad guy and not a revolutionary, are the same type of people that STILL think communism is a dirty word.
Because lord knows revolutionaries can't be bad guys. :rolleyes:

[Matt]

No one has ever lived in a REAL communist society. The best anyone has ever accomplished are socialist societies.

Just sayin'...

[blind_fury]

Che fought for the underdog. The world needs more people like him and fewer like Dick Cheney and Paris Hilton.

He fought against racism, the exploitation of the poor, and imperialism. No wonder so many Americans hate him.

Here's his speech to the United Nations: http://ils.unc.edu/~michm/Che/unations.html

[bulok]

I think you've made your point...

You know, I don't think I've ever seen anyone wear any actuall che merchandise.

It's probably because you've never been to a moonbat rally...

http://hotair.cachefly.net/media.michellemalkin.com/archives/images/che.gif

http://hotair.cachefly.net/media.michellemalkin.com/archives/images/che002.gif

http://hotair.cachefly.net/media.michellemalkin.com/archives/images/che004.gif

[Hudson]

I love this thread:D

[Danalys]

Ya know, making a thread titled Che Guevara is a communist ***** would have been more effective.

i have it was an upper class person i went to university with. he was probably being ironic.

[Danalys]

https://www.protestwarrior.com/store/files/master/communism.gif
how many has democracy killed :o

[bulok]

how many has democracy killed :o

you tell us

People have died to attain democracy but I dont think a democratic government has ordered the execution of its citizens before but if I am wrong you tell me

[Hudson]

I have nothing personally again Communism. I do have something against Che :o

[Danalys]

hitler was democratically elected. he then used war time powers to kill many. millions of prisononers have been executed. and once a country has been claimed in the spread of democracy, the indiginous are subjects of that nation. they however contest the ownership and are often killed for it.

now i don't have pithy banner about a serious issue and i don't have numbers that are probably incalculable. but i know death is constant. it's just when it occurs that changes. you would have to guess at whether those countries would have had less death if they were democratic. i don't think this world has seen true communism since the invention of bartering. the amish might be the closest example tho.

[logansoldcigar]

you tell us

People have died to attain democracy but I dont think a democratic government has ordered the execution of its citizens before but if I am wrong you tell me

Hitler gained power in a completely legal and legitimate fashion.
It was after he gained power that he started down the road of createing a totalitarian state. He went the legal route because a previous attempt at gaining power by force had failed

[Fred_Fury]

filthy communist

[Fred_Fury]

hitler was democratically elected. he then used war time powers to kill many. millions of prisononers have been executed. and once a country has been claimed in the spread of democracy, the indiginous are subjects of that nation. they however contest the ownership and are often killed for it.

now i don't have pithy banner about a serious issue and i don't have numbers that are probably incalculable. but i know death is constant. it's just when it occurs that changes. you would have to guess at whether those countries would have had less death if they were democratic. i don't think this world has seen true communism since the invention of bartering. the amish might be the closest example tho.

Hitler was not democratically elected, go back to history class.

[Danalys]

he was legally the leader in a democracy tho so my point still stands. i'll take history if you take a lesson in getting to the crux of an arguement rather than picking on a detail that didn't effect anything.

[Erzengel]

He sang to Evita in that movie. I forgot what it was called.

[JLBats]

Man-Thing, what the **** was the point of this thread?:confused:

I'm going to go make a thread called "Who is Hitler?". And inside, it will say "He was kinda, you know, a douchebag. Yeah, he was basically a douchebag"

:confused::rolleyes:

[Danalys]

che guevara keeps man thing up at night. he need to get him off his chest. :)

[JLBats]

che guevara keeps man thing up at night. he need to get him off his chest. :)

Lol, Man-Thing has the funniest name on the Hype.

[logansoldcigar]

Hitler was not democratically elected, go back to history class.

To Germans burdened by reparations payments to the victors of World War I, and threatened by hyperinflation, political chaos, and a possible Communist takeover, Hitler, frenzied yet magnetic, offered scapegoats and solutions. To the economically depressed he promised to despoil “Jew financiers,” to workers he promised security. He gained the financial support of bankers and industrialists with his virulent anti-Communism and promises to control trade unionism.

Hitler had a keen and sinister insight into mass psychology, and he was a master of intrigue and maneuver. After acquiring German citizenship through the state of Brunswick, he ran in the presidential elections of 1932, losing to the popular war hero Paul von Hindenburg but strengthening his position by falsely promising to support Chancellor Franz von Papen, who lifted the ban on the storm troops (June, 1932).

When the Nazis were elected the largest party in the Reichstag (July, 1932), Hindenburg offered Hitler a subordinate position in the cabinet. Hitler held out for the chief post and for sweeping powers. The chancellorship went instead to Kurt von Schleicher, who resigned on Jan. 28, 1933. Amid collapsing parliamentary government and pitched battles between Nazis and Communists, Hindenburg, on the urging of von Papen, called Hitler to be chancellor of a coalition cabinet, refusing him extraordinary powers. Supported by Alfred Hugenberg, Hitler took office on Jan. 30.
from here:

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0858634.html

In 1932, Hitler ran for President and won 30% of the vote, forcing the eventual victor, Paul von Hindenburg, into a runoff election. After a bigger landslide in July 1932 (44%), their vote declined and their movement weakened (Hitler lost the presidential election to WWI veteran Paul von Hindenburg in April; elections of November 1932 roughly 42%), so Hitler decided to enter a coalition government as chancellor in January 1933.

from here:

http://www2.dsu.nodak.edu/users/dmeier/Holocaust/hitler.html

Hitler had embarked on a nationwide campaign promising employment to the unemployed, land to the peasants, re-armament to the army and most of all, he promised a strong leadership. he also blamed the 'november criminals' for the signing of the versailles treaty and he openly critiscised jews and communists, and the weakness of the weimar germany as being a contributory factor to germanys ills. industrialists nicknamed him ' the man of steel'.

By 1932 the nazi party was the largest in the reichstag and soon the number of seats rose from 12 to 288. Politicians did not trust him but the people wanted him in charge and so in january of 1933, hitler became chancellor of germany. As soon as hitler was given power he beagn to dismanntle democracy. he called a general election, however on the night of 27th of february 1933, the reichstag was set alight , 'supposedly' by a communist. Hitler led people to believe that this was the beginning of a communist plot to take over the country.

from here:

http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/2962.php

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis waged a modern whirlwind campaign in 1930 unlike anything ever seen in Germany. Hitler traveled the country delivering dozens of major speeches, attending meetings, shaking hands, signing autographs, posing for pictures, and even kissing babies.

Joseph Goebbels brilliantly organized thousands of meetings, torchlight parades, plastered posters everywhere and printed millions of copies of special editions of Nazi newspapers.

Germany was in the grip of the Great Depression with a population suffering from poverty, misery, and uncertainty, amid increasing political instability.

For Hitler, the master speech maker, the long awaited opportunity to let loose his talents on the German people had arrived. He would find in this downtrodden people, an audience very willing to listen. In his speeches, Hitler offered the Germans what they needed most, encouragement. He gave them heaps of vague promises while avoiding the details. He used simple catchphrases, repeated over and over.


His campaign appearances were carefully staged events. Audiences were always kept waiting, deliberately letting the tension increase, only to be broken by solemn processions of Brownshirts with golden banners, blaring military music, and finally the appearance of Hitler amid shouts of "Heil!" The effect in a closed in hall with theatrical style lighting and decorations of swastikas was overwhelming and very catching.

Hitler began each speech in low, hesitating tones, gradually raising the pitch and volume of his voice then exploding in a climax of frenzied indignation. He combined this with carefully rehearsed hand gestures for maximum effect. He skillfully played on the emotions of the audience bringing the level of excitement higher and higher until the people wound up a wide-eyed, screaming, frenzied mass that surrendered to his will and looked upon him with pseudo-religious adoration.

Hitler offered something to everyone; work to the unemployed, prosperity to failed business people, profits to industry, expansion to the Army, social harmony and an end of class distinctions to idealistic young students, and restoration of German glory to those in despair. He promised to bring order amid chaos, a feeling of unity to all and the chance to belong. He would make Germany strong again, end payment of war reparations to the Allies, tear up the treaty of Versailles, stamp out corruption, keep down Marxism, and deal harshly with the Jews.

He appealed to all classes of Germans. The name of the Nazi party itself was deliberately all inclusive - the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

All of the Nazis, from Hitler, down to the leader of the smallest city block, worked tirelessly, relentlessly, to pound their message into the minds of the Germans.

On election day September 14, 1930, the Nazis received 6,371,000 votes, over eighteen percent of the total, and were thus entitled to 107 seats in the German Reichstag. It was a stunning victory for Hitler. Overnight, the Nazi party went from the smallest to the second largest party in Germany.

It propelled Hitler to solid national and international prestige and aroused the curiosity of the world press. He was besieged with interview requests. Foreign journalists wanted to know - what did he mean - tear up the Treaty of Versailles and end war reparations? - and that Germany wasn't responsible for the first World War?

Gone was the Charlie Chaplin image of Hitler as the laughable fanatic behind the Beer Hall Putsch. The beer hall revolutionary had been replaced by the skilled manipulator of the masses.

On October 13, 1930, dressed in their brown shirts, the elected Nazi deputies marched in unison into the Reichstag and took their seats. When the roll call was taken, each one shouted, "Present! Heil Hitler!"

They had no intention of cooperating with the democratic government, knowing it was to their advantage to let things get worse in Germany, thus increasing the appeal of Hitler to an ever more miserable people.

Nazi storm troopers dressed in civilian clothes celebrated their electoral victory by smashing in the windows of Jewish shops, restaurants and department stores, an indication of things to come.

Now, for the floundering German democracy, the clock was ticking and time was on Hitler's side.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/elect.htm

shall I keep going?

[Fred_Fury]

Hitler was not elected, dumbass, he was appointed. The nazis won majority seats, but every time Hitler ran for president he lost.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Hitler.27s_appointment_as_Chancellor

Hitler's appointment as Chancellor
Meanwhile Papen, resentful because of his dismissal, tried to get his revenge on Schleicher by working toward the General's downfall, through forming an intrigue with the camarilla and Alfred Hugenberg, media mogul and chairman of the DNVP. Also involved were Hjalmar Schacht, Fritz Thyssen and other leading German businessmen. They financially supported the Nazi Party, which had been brought to the brink of bankruptcy by the cost of heavy campaigning. The businessmen also wrote letters to Hindenburg, urging him to appoint Hitler as leader of a government "independent from parliamentary parties" which could turn into a movement that would "enrapture millions of people."[2]

Finally, the President reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and DNVP. Hitler and two other Nazi ministers (Frick, Göring) were to be contained by a framework of conservative cabinet ministers, most notably by Papen as Vice-Chancellor and by Hugenberg as Minister of Economics. Papen wanted to use Hitler as a figure-head, but the Nazis had gained key positions, most notably the Ministry of the Interior. On the morning of January 30, 1933, in Hindenburg's office, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor during what some observers later described as a brief and simple ceremony.

[Elijya]

I think the idea is THE NAZI PARTY was elected, and Hitler emerged as their leader

sort of like how the president isn't elected by the people, but by the electoral college

[JLBats]

Hitler was not elected, dumbass, he was appointed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Hitler.27s_appointment_as_Chancellor

Hitler's appointment as Chancellor
Meanwhile Papen, resentful because of his dismissal, tried to get his revenge on Schleicher by working toward the General's downfall, through forming an intrigue with the camarilla and Alfred Hugenberg, media mogul and chairman of the DNVP. Also involved were Hjalmar Schacht, Fritz Thyssen and other leading German businessmen. They financially supported the Nazi Party, which had been brought to the brink of bankruptcy by the cost of heavy campaigning. The businessmen also wrote letters to Hindenburg, urging him to appoint Hitler as leader of a government "independent from parliamentary parties" which could turn into a movement that would "enrapture millions of people."[2]

Finally, the President reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and DNVP. Hitler and two other Nazi ministers (Frick, Göring) were to be contained by a framework of conservative cabinet ministers, most notably by Papen as Vice-Chancellor and by Hugenberg as Minister of Economics. Papen wanted to use Hitler as a figure-head, but the Nazis had gained key positions, most notably the Ministry of the Interior. On the morning of January 30, 1933, in Hindenburg's office, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor during what some observers later described as a brief and simple ceremony.

You missed the part where he was technically elected.

On election day September 14, 1930, the Nazis received 6,371,000 votes, over eighteen percent of the total, and were thus entitled to 107 seats in the German Reichstag. It was a stunning victory for Hitler. Overnight, the Nazi party went from the smallest to the second largest party in Germany.

[Danalys]

Lol, Man-Thing has the funniest name on the Hype.
he's not giant sized man-thing tho.

[logansoldcigar]

he was appointed to chancellor, in the same way the the prime minister is appointed by the Queen in this country. By controlling the majority of the reichstag through (in hitlers case a coalition) . similar to berlusconi, the recent Italian prome minister. Its the fundamental flaw in a proportional representation voting system

[JLBats]

I think the idea is THE NAZI PARTY was elected, and Hitler emerged as their leader

sort of like how the president isn't elected by the people, but by the electoral college

If his logic is that Hitler was not elected, but the Nazi party was, he may as well say that Stephen Harper was not elected:down:confused:

[Elijya]

who is Stephen Harper?

[Danalys]

i suggest a split to a was hitler elected thread. well done you've been unable to challenge my arguement what so ever.

[JLBats]

who is Stephen Harper?

Current Prime Minister of Canada.

[logansoldcigar]

Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party at the time of the elections in which they gained enough seats to be the second largest party in the reichstag.As with most PR voting systems, it leads to a coalition government, in which the largest party is invited to form a government and so on down the line until a party can form a government. the leader of said coalition is then offered the role of governemtn leader by the head of state (in the UK, by the queen. in germany at the time, by the President). they are not appointed per se...they have been elected to a position of power by the people.

[Fred_Fury]

You missed the part where he was technically elected.

On election day September 14, 1930, the Nazis received 6,371,000 votes, over eighteen percent of the total, and were thus entitled to 107 seats in the German Reichstag. It was a stunning victory for Hitler. Overnight, the Nazi party went from the smallest to the second largest party in Germany.

no he wasnt "technically elected" he was technically appointed.

Hitler came in second in the elections, just like John Kerry came in second.

In 1932 Hitler intended to run against the aging President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Germany) Paul von Hindenburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg) in the scheduled presidential elections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_presidential_election%2C_1932). Though Hitler had left Austria in 1913, he still had not acquired German citizenship and hence could not run for public office. In February however, the state government of Brunswick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick-L%C3%BCneburg), in which the Nazi Party participated, appointed Hitler to some minor administrative post and also gave him citizenship. The new German citizen ran against Hindenburg, who was supported by a broad range of reactionary nationalist, monarchist, Catholic, Republican and even social democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democracy) parties, and against the Communist presidential candidate. His campaign was called "Hitler über Deutschland" (Hitler over Germany). The name had a double meaning. Besides an obvious reference to Hitler's dictatorial intentions, it also referred to the fact that Hitler was campaigning by airplane. This was a brand new political tactic that allowed Hitler to speak in two cities in one day, which was practically unheard of at the time. Hitler came in second on both rounds, attaining more than 35% of the vote during the second one in April. Although he lost to Hindenburg, the election established Hitler as a realistic and fresh alternative in German politics.

[logansoldcigar]

for the extraordinarily simple minded: in the simplest of terms, if you get 20% of the popular vote, you get 20% of the seats in you elected body. In a multiparty system it leads to coalition government, which is generally weak. In a two party stsem it works better than first past the post.

[Danalys]

elected apointed irrelevant, still a democracy.

[JLBats]

I don't think Fred Fury understands other governmental systems.

[Danalys]

he takes the names too literally.

[logansoldcigar]

By his terms, Tony Blair isnt elected. as the person leading the largest parliamentry group, he was invited by the queen to attempt to form the government, and was technically appointed by her. technically, all acts of parliament in this country are only law once approved by the queen(or king)..giving them "royal ascent"

[Danalys]

when really it is an outmoded formality.

[logansoldcigar]

exactly. Its a bit of pomp n circumstance, (any attempt by the royals to refuse to sign an act into law would cause a constitutional crisis, and probably end up bringing the monarchy down in its present form.)

[Gonking]

http://che-mart.com/images/Che_carkeys.jpg
Che Guevara is the Great Salesman of Communism. He started his glamorous life by killing people who didn't buy his ideas of universal happiness and equality. Although this selling method worked well in South American and African countries, young Ernesto quickly realized that to conquer the world he had to learn other techniques.

He noticed that in the Land of Big Capital some idealistic college students, as well as pimple faced white middleclass teens had already begun to put his unwashed visage on their T-shirts and dorm room walls. Bingo! Like all communists faced with the prospect of making a few dollars, Che decided to try his hand at the mysterious entity known as "work" and "business investment".

A brilliant salesman, Che performed an ingenious maneuver by faking his own death and thus achieving the Jim Morrison type icon status. As the progressive world mourned and idolized his image, Che quietly started printing his own T-shirts in the humble basement of a Bogota Laundromat.

http://che-mart.com/images/Shirt_blood.jpg

At first the process involved dunking his head in a bucket of ox blood and physically pressing his face on the T-shirt. After sales began to pick up he was able to apply for a small business loan and purchased a screen printing machine.

Che has marketed his brand name brilliantly over the years, selling to specific niche in the market: young people who have no clue what Che has done or what he stands for. The cash keeps flowing as most college dorms world-wide are being adorned with his face, and more and more middle class sons and daughters wear Che products in order to, among other things, wash away the guilt of their well-heeled upbringing.

"It's just cool to wear my stuff. Who cares what I'm about!" says a confident Guevara from his 36th floor office of his world headquarters on Madison Avenue in New York City. His unique product sells solely on popularity, coolness and young people looking to gain acceptance in social circles. "You can essentially turn out complete junk and people will still wear it because they want to be in," declares John Hayden of Consumer Reports magazine.

"Sales go through the roof as anti-war protests grow in popularity!"

In the near future Che-Mart intends to diversify its global image into several different product lines. There's an Apprentice-style TV show called "The Revolutionary" in the pipeline. The show will pit several left-leaning young people against each other, charging them with such tasks as fermenting revolution in small counties, organizing protests against McDonalds and attacking the police. The winner will receive.????

http://che-mart.com/images/Time_Che_sm.jpg

Today Mr. Guevara commands a huge global business empire with offices in New York, Paris, London and Tokyo. He has been featured in Forbes and Fortune magazines no less than 8 times. With houses in New York, Los Angeles and Aspen, Che has come a long way from his humble revolutionary beginnings. His company has been listed in the Fortune 500 for the last 6 years and Che-Mart has been voted one of the Ten Best Employers in the United States. Recently featured in Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, he is an avid collector of fine art and Ferraris. Che spends his spare time on the slopes of Aspen or socializing with his good friend and business associate Donald Trump. With a fleet of Leer jets he is never too far from corporate boardrooms of the world.

The future is looking bright for Che-Mart as the endless supply of liberal college professors and college students will keep his global empire afloat for the foreseeable future.

http://che-mart.com/images/German_Che_sm.jpg

http://che-mart.com/images/Che_site_new_02.gif (http://che-mart.com/)

:up:

why you hate so much Che Guevara?
He was a great revolucionary who fought for more social equality and had an alternative vision of Comunism different from the Soviet one. If you don't understand the reality of latin america dont' talk about it. Here, there was (and there is) a lot fo people excluded of the society living in poverty without any education or laboral possibility, and the capitalism has not solved this situation. I don't know if Guevara would done it but at least, he tried and died for it.

[Gonking]

how many has democracy killed :o

the question is how many people has killed UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?, how many dictatorships in the world (that killed hundreds of people) has supported?, and in how many wars was involved?.

[maxwell's demon]

Man-Thing, i think i missed you most of all.

[Danalys]

you killed a **** load forming it. you give guns to countries all over the world to help them kill people you want killed. you fight and kill by proxy. then you send bombs raining down on civilian targets. all for a good cause or so you think. it's the ends justifying the means question again. but your means are self serving. your ends destructive. every now and then you kill more people to clean up the mess you made. my country did the same.

[Elijya]

please don't speak of America as if all of it's citizens agreed and supported every step it's made

[Danalys]

i just refer to your countries foreign policy. excuse my imprecision. i talk to those who agree with that policy. often through argueing with those that don't so we can have a concensus, or at least be closer to one. i play devil's advocate to those that would demonize others by showing them what it is like to be demonized.

[maxwell's demon]

look, no society has ever been truly communist- so no "communist" society has ever killed ANYONE ever.

likewise no society has ever been truly democratic, so no "democratic" society has ever killed ANYONE ever.


no society is ever truly any one thing. and it takes a brave buncha kooks to be able to look at a society that calls itself "x" or "y" or "z" and say- 'actually you know what? you're a buncha idiots. that's all.' because pretty much every society has been run by a buncha idiots. and what makes an idiot and idiot? blaming a formless, dimensionless ideology instead of holding that ideologies failed practitioners accountable.

[Gonking]

By his terms, Tony Blair isnt elected. as the person leading the largest parliamentry group, he was invited by the queen to attempt to form the government, and was technically appointed by her. technically, all acts of parliament in this country are only law once approved by the queen(or king)..giving them "royal ascent"

England is a parlamentary democracy and Constitutional Monarchy. The Queen can only act according to the councel of the Gabinet.

[lars573]

elected apointed irrelevant, still a democracy.
Hitler rigged all the elections he was in. Using SA thugery. They would stand outside polling boths and influence (usually with a bat) people into voting for the "right" party. Guess which. In the presidential election he didn't use much. But in the parlimentary elections after he lost the precidency he went all out there were SA thugs at nearly every polling station to try an influence people.

[jaguarr]

che guevara keeps man thing up at night. he need to get him off his chest. :)

You make Man-Thing's relationship with Guevarra sound like a Cleveland Steamer. :confused:

jag

[The Incredible Hulk]

hot lunch comin' up!

[Ahura Mazda]

Yes there has never been true communism as written about by Marx and Hegel but both negated one fundamental element in their equation and that is human nature. However, what they proposed is very attractive but it is only theory and I do not think it could ever work even if applied to an advanced industrial state (on which the theory was written for and not a rural state like what was in Russia at the time).

Socialo-communism, practiced in the Soviet Union at best breeds mediocrity and totalitarism. The modern market economy is a mix of Keynesian and Smith economics (in reality other theorists have made great contributions but the top 2 are these). The reality of it is that it does allow for the most advancements and the greatest achievements but it also does create a class system and a certain level of poverty. On a conceptual basis, this may seem unattractive but it may be the best we as humans can do....

[Danalys]

You make Man-Thing's relationship with Guevarra sound like a Cleveland Steamer. :confused:

jag

that's one of the interpretations i was thinking of when i wrote what i wrote.

[Danalys]

Hitler rigged all the elections he was in. Using SA thugery. They would stand outside polling boths and influence (usually with a bat) people into voting for the "right" party. Guess which. In the presidential election he didn't use much. But in the parlimentary elections after he lost the precidency he went all out there were SA thugs at nearly every polling station to try an influence people.

and what should be done in that situation to stop voter intimidation. hitler used his tactics and won. his tactics then eventually were fought against. could have saved alot of lives by standing up to thuggery in the first place. in presenting a united front against those who come to attack you and lie in wait for you. in places you have a right to be.

[sinewave]

I've never followed Che Guevara, but just the fact that Man-Thing hates him so much is making me consider buying one of his fashionable t-shirts.

[kainedamo]

:up:

If nothing else, Motercycle Diaries is a good flick!

[Tangled Web]

I like how Man-Thing hasn't responded to us.

[Man-Thing]

I like how Man-Thing hasn't responded to us.
and what is there to respond too? All I see is mindless drivel with things like:
"actually a true communist country hasn't never existed", which is just stupid.
Out of all the ones who attempted it, have failed. If it is unacheiveable to the point where it's citizens aren't murdered, then it's worthless.

Oh I guess I should have jumped in on the Hitler discussion?:rolleyes:

BTW, I have a life outside of here, so sorry if I can't follow up to your witty reparte (:rolleyes:) at the snap of your fingers.

[Man-Thing]

hmmm....

I wonder why TW hasn't responded yet? It's been nine minutes.

[Tangled Web]

hmmm....

I wonder why TW hasn't responded yet? It's been nine minutes.
There have been some good questions, for one how many people have Bush and Cheny killed?

[Man-Thing]

There have been some good questions, for one how many people have Bush and Cheny killed?
Cheney almost killed that lawyer dude but failed. I don't think Bush has killed anyone.:confused:

[Hades]

Cheney almost killed that lawyer dude but failed. I don't think Bush has killed anyone.:confused:
Except for all innocent people from Iraq when he dropped the missles on them.

[Tangled Web]

Except for all innocent people from Iraq when he dropped the missles on them.
Oh and don't forget all the young American troops he sends to their death at a constant rate.

[Man-Thing]

Except for all innocent people from Iraq when he dropped the missles on them.


Oh and don't forget all the young American troops he sends to their death at a constant rate.


You guys are like those silly meteorologist that said that Hurricane Katrina was "mad" when it was down in the gulf.

Here's a news flash. George Bush didn't drop missles on people in Iraq. He doesn't send young American troops to their death.

You see, we have an all volunteer military, which means no one is forced to be in it. So, if we use a little logic, George Bush isn't the person who made young American soldiers go off to war. It is a highly probably thing that can happen in today's world, so in effect the young American soldiers are at fault themselves if they have a problem with warfare. The military isn't just for paying for college.

All your examples are not even remotely comparable to the deaths in which Communist countrys have inflicted upon their OWN people. War is one thing, but having your brains blown out by the military in your own country is another.

Try again.

[Tangled Web]

Wow, so you're saying that the troops chose to go out to God forsaken Iraq and get killed?
You know alot of the kids who join the service do so to get to college right? They're under the impression that we have a competent ruler who won't invade Iraq and lie to the people.

Maybe this is a more appropriate shirt
http://www.superherostuff.com/bush_sucks_tshirts/images/bush_sucks_m2.jpg
Try again

[Man-Thing]

Wow, so you're saying that the troops chose to go out to God forsaken Iraq and get killed?
You know alot of the kids who join the service do so to get to college right? They're under the impression that we have a competent ruler who won't invade Iraq and lie to the people.

Maybe this is a more appropriate shirt
http://www.bant-shirts.com/close/*******-img/*******-ph-1.jpg

Try again

So it's the president's fault if a young GI makes a mistake by not looking at world events before joining the military?

And what's the deal with college anyway. People act as if it's the only way you can survive today. "Oh poor johnny doesn't get to go to college", big deal. If he wants to go to college, and be in the military he should realize that there might be a possiblity he be deployed in to armed conflict.

I really don't think there are any military personel currently active who thinks that their military training is just "grown up boyscouts".

Here's a ticker:

IF YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY, YOUR PURPOSE OF TRAINING IN THE MILITARY IS TO FIGHT IN ARMED WARFARE. (not to got to college)

BTW, I could care less about GWB.:up:

[Man-Thing]

Maybe I should've voted for Kerry. After all, if he were pres Christopher Reeve wouldn't have died- he would be walking :eek:, and this whole conflict in the M.E. wouldn't be happening right now.

:rolleyes:

[screech_turbo]

Hollywood Loves Che!



http://che-mart.com/images/SnuggleB_WeekendAtErnies_sm.gif



i know it's just a joke, but damn. i would LOVE to see that movie. especially if silverman and mcartney were involved.

[Hades]

You guys are like those silly meteorologist that said that Hurricane Katrina was "mad" when it was down in the gulf.

Here's a news flash. George Bush didn't drop missles on people in Iraq. He doesn't send young American troops to their death.

You see, we have an all volunteer military, which means no one is forced to be in it. So, if we use a little logic, George Bush isn't the person who made young American soldiers go off to war. It is a highly probably thing that can happen in today's world, so in effect the young American soldiers are at fault themselves if they have a problem with warfare. The military isn't just for paying for college.

All your examples are not even remotely comparable to the deaths in which Communist countrys have inflicted upon their OWN people. War is one thing, but having your brains blown out by the military in your own country is another.

Try again.
What about the bombings?

And whether or not the troops voluntered they were still sent by Bush to kill people.

[Tangled Web]

So it's the president's fault if a young GI makes a mistake by not looking at world events before joining the military?
World events? What world events, Cheny and Bush looking to make money? And you're making it sound as if these troops are all guys who joined up when Bush declared action, most of the guys there are guys that have been recalled. Under Bush they extended the time in which a guy can get recalled.

And what's the deal with college anyway. People act as if it's the only way you can survive today. "Oh poor johnny doesn't get to go to college", big deal. If he wants to go to college, and be in the military he should realize that there might be a possiblity he be deployed in to armed conflict.
Wow, one of the dumbest things that I've read. You bashing on people who seek knowledge.

I really don't think there are any military personel currently active who thinks that their military training is just "grown up boyscouts".
What ever that means.
Here's a ticker:

IF YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY, YOUR PURPOSE OF TRAINING IN THE MILITARY IS TO FIGHT IN ARMED WARFARE. (not to got to college)
Yeah, most of the guys there are under the impression that if they fight at all it'll be for something worth fighting for not to put money in some fat cat's pocket.
BTW, I could care less about GWB.:up:
Well it's people who don't care that let idiots like George W. Bush get in to office.
So there.

[Man-Thing]

What about the bombings?

And whether or not the troops voluntered they were still sent by Bush to kill people.

What about the bombings?

I think they've done some good at bringing terrorist to the judgement seat of Allah.

Washington sent military to kill people. Lincoln sent soldiers to kill people. FDR sent military to kill people. Kennedy sent people to kill people.

Sorry, it's a tuff job (being the president). Sending people flowers and stuff asking them to "quite being mean" is nice in fantasy land, but this is the real world.

[Man-Thing]

1. World events? What world events, Cheny and Bush looking to make money? And you're making it sound as if these troops are all guys who joined up when Bush declared action, most of the guys there are guys that have been recalled. Under Bush they extended the time in which a guy can get recalled.

2. Wow, one of the dumbest things that I've read. You bashing on people who seek knowledge.

3. What ever that means.

4. Yeah, most of the guys there are under the impression that if they fight at all it'll be for something worth fighting for not to put money in some fat cat's pocket.

5. Well it's people who don't care that let idiots like George W. Bush get in to office.

So there.

1. EVERY military personel I know said they felt they needed to go to Iraq.

And for those that don't, they need to read the constitution (of which they are sworn to protect). In it somewhere in article 2 it says that allthough the president is a civilian- he is still commander in chief of the military, so even if they hate the war and think it is unjustified, they SHOULD have known what they were getting into before they joined or the possible consequences (changes in laws).

2. No I'm not bashing people who seek knowledge, it's pretty obvious I was only bashing people who think college is the only way to gain knowledge...

Let me guess... College student?

3.Exactly what it means.

4. All of the guys I've talked like I said earlier think that their being in Iraq is justifiable.

5. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I didn't want Christopher Reeve to walk again.

[Tangled Web]

What about the bombings?

I think they've done some good at bringing terrorist to the judgement seat of Allah.

Washington sent military to kill people. Lincoln sent soldiers to kill people. FDR sent military to kill people. Kennedy sent people to kill people.

Sorry, it's a tuff job (being the president). Sending people flowers and stuff asking them to "quite being mean" is nice in fantasy land, but this is the real world.
Washington fought for our Freedom

Lincoln fought to keep the keep the Union from breaking up.

FDR fought for WWII, nuff said.

Kennedy knew when enough was enough.

Bush went in to Iraq and told us that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction, where are they?

[Man-Thing]

Washington fought for our Freedom

Lincoln fought to keep the keep the Union from breaking up.

FDR fought for WWII, nuff said.

Kennedy knew when enough was enough.

Bush went in to Iraq and told us that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction, where are they?

I don't care about WMD's, it would be nice if they found some, but I think it's nice that the terrorist using their rescources over there than here.

I'm not defending Bush on the WMD claim it bothers me too.

I will not defend Bush on his failed campaign promise which he said no to nation building either.

[Tangled Web]

1. EVERY military personel I know said they felt they needed to go to Iraq.

And for those that don't, they need to read the constitution (of which they are sworn to protect). In it somewhere in article 2 it says that allthough the president is a civilian- he is still commander in chief of the military, so even if they hate the war and think it is unjustified, they SHOULD have known what they were getting into before they joined or the possible consequences (changes in laws).

2. No I'm not bashing people who seek knowledge, it's pretty obvious I was only bashing people who think college is the only way to gain knowledge...

Let me guess... College student?

3.Exactly what it means.

4. All of the guys I've talked like I said earlier think that their being in Iraq is justifiable.

5. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I didn't want Christopher Reeve to walk again.
1. The soldiers that I know, are curious as to why they are there.

So, just because Bush can declare war doesn't mean he should. Does he even have a reason for why we are there?Where are the WMD's?

2. By down playing the importance of college you are contributing to the downfall of the United States.

No, but one day I will be.

3. You mean irrelevence?

4. As I said ealier, it looks like my guys don't think that we are justified to be there.

5. Classy.

[Tangled Web]

I don't care about WMD's, it would be nice if they found some, but I think it's nice that the terrorist using their rescources over there than here.

I'm not defending Bush on the WMD claim it bothers me too.

I will not defend Bush on his failed campaign promise which he said no to nation building either.
Ok then, why are we in Iraq? Bush lied, that is reason for impeachment, not having an extra marital affair.

[Man-Thing]

1. The soldiers that I know, are curious as to why they are there.

So, just because Bush can declare war doesn't mean he should. Does he even have a reason for why we are there?Where are the WMD's?

2. By down playing the importance of college you are contributing to the downfall of the United States.

No, but one day I will be.

3. You mean irrelevence?

4. As I said ealier, it looks like my guys don't think that we are justified to be there.

5. Classy.

1. Actually the Constitution says that only Congress can declare war.

2. lol, when you get out of college you will be working for people like me.:up:

3. ...

4. Okay, the are the minority then...

5. Actually sarcastic heartlessism. Seeing as how one of Kerry's campaign promises through the mouth of John Edwards was that "people like Christopher Reeve will get up out of their chairs and walk".

[Man-Thing]

Ok then, why are we in Iraq? Bush lied, that is reason for impeachment, not having an extra marital affair.

We are in Iraq fighting terrorist.

High crimes and misdeaenors are reason for impeachment, you know like LYING UNDER OATH (which is what Clinton was impeached for).:up:

[Hades]

What about the bombings?

I think they've done some good at bringing terrorist to the judgement seat of Allah.

Washington sent military to kill people. Lincoln sent soldiers to kill people. FDR sent military to kill people. Kennedy sent people to kill people.

Sorry, it's a tuff job (being the president). Sending people flowers and stuff asking them to "quite being mean" is nice in fantasy land, but this is the real world.
Then why do you have so much beef about Che Guevara killing people?
Isn't that somewhat hypocritical?

He did so because he believed it was necessary for what he believed. It may not have been right, or the best course, but that could very well just depend on what side you're on. By circumstance or not.

War is stupid period

[Man-Thing]

Ok then, why are we in Iraq? Bush lied, that is reason for impeachment, not having an extra marital affair.
I don't care, impeach him. Won't hurt my feelings at all.

[Tangled Web]

1. Actually the Constitution says that only Congress can declare war.

2. lol, when you get out of college you will be working for people like me.:up:

3. ...

4. Okay, the are the minority then...

5. Actually sarcastic heartlessism. Seeing as how one of Kerry's campaign promises through the mouth of John Edwards was that "people like Christopher Reeve will get up out of their chairs and walk".
1. You mean the congress that Bush lied to?
2. Maybe, who knows.
3....
4. I doubt it. Of course on TV, you won't see a soldier giving his honest opinion. Ask Deemar about that sometime.
5. You have to give iit up to Kerry for making a statement like that. JFK promised a man on the moon and we got it.

[Man-Thing]

Then why do you have so much beef about Che Guevara killing people?
Isn't that somewhat hypocritical?

He did so because he believed it was necessary for what he believed. It may not have been right, or the best course, but..

I have a problem with Che Guevara being glorified by confessed pacifist as being a revolutionary by middle class white kids.

Plus I don't like him because he was a commie, because Communism takes away individuality and freedom from ones own government.:up:

VIVA LA CAPITALISM!!!

[Tangled Web]

I have a problem with Che Guevara being glorified by confessed pacifist as being a revolutionary by middle class white kids.
As do I.

Plus I don't like him because he was a commie, because Communism takes away individuality and freedom from ones own government.:up:
I can agree with that, but you must be able to not have a bias and see one of our own as a one who has brought upon us needless death.

[Man-Thing]

1. You mean the congress that Bush lied to?
2. Maybe, who knows.
3....
4. I doubt it. Of course on TV, you won't see a soldier giving his honest opinion. Ask Deemar about that sometime.
5. You have to give iit up to Kerry for making a statement like that. JFK promised a man on the moon and we got it.


1. Yeah the same congress that had access to the mush of the same intelligence, and who voted to give authorization to the Pres.

Once again, your talking to me as if I'm a die hard Bush supporter. I'm not.

2. I do.

3.

4. So your doubts, should replace my first hand expeirence talking with military persons.

5. *throws up

[Man-Thing]

I can agree with that, but you must be able to not have a bias and see one of our own as a one who has brought upon us needless death.

I never said I like needless death, but we live in a fallen world it's a part of it. Killing civilians in war however sad, is a truth in ANY conflict today. Killing your own countrymen for different opinions that you is murder.

[Hades]

I have a problem with Che Guevara being glorified by confessed pacifist as being a revolutionary by middle class white kids.

Plus I don't like him because he was a commie, because Communism takes away individuality and freedom from ones own government.:up:

VIVA LA ClAPITALISM!!!
http://www.gospelwarriors.org/gonorrhea.jpg

[Man-Thing]

http://www.gospelwarriors.org/gonorrhea.jpg
http://www.rochester-citynews.com/binary/c4dc788b/Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

[Tangled Web]

1. Yeah the same congress that had access to the mush of the same intelligence, and who voted to give authorization to the Pres.

Once again, your talking to me as if I'm a die hard Bush supporter. I'm not.

2. I do.

3.

4. So your doubts, should replace my first hand expeirence talking with military persons.

5. *throws up
1. Well excuse them for trusting their President. He calls himself a war president right?

2. That's nice.

3. Your ad here

4. My neighbor is back from Iraq. So mine are also first hand experiences.

5. Hey, it's better than not supporting research for cures, alternate fuels, ect...

[Man-Thing]

okay, I gotta go now, just so you guys won't say I'm avoiding you and your "pwnage" (lol).:up:

[maxwell's demon]

1. Yeah the same congress that had access to the mush of the same intelligence, and who voted to give authorization to the Pres.


freudian typo.
PS- agree. to the mush.

and what is there to respond too? All I see is mindless drivel with things like:
"actually a true communist country hasn't never existed", which is just stupid.
i guess you missed the point of my whole discussion?:confused: The point is its stupid to place all the blame on an idea when an idea can't kill people. you know, like the NRA says?: Communism never killed anyone, Greedy, Suspicious, and/or Paranoid people did.

But i know you didn't really "miss" that point. you just chose to think it's stupid. ok.
So yes- i understand your point too. but by that same yardstick a true Democracy has never been achieved. All we've had is Republic after Republic after Republic. so all this Bush talk of installing "democracies" all over the world is nonsense. he's installing Republics. and he should say so.

[Man-Thing]

freudian typo.
PS- agree. to the mush.


i guess you missed the point of my whole discussion?:confused: The point is its stupid to place all the blame on an idea when an idea can't kill people. you know, like the NRA says?: Communism never killed anyone, Greedy, Suspicious, and/or Paranoid people did..

welcome back block-head

No I totally saw your argument FOR COMMUNISM (you commie scum! lol)

That was the point of my post.
Saying communism hasn't been "fully acheived" is just silly comment because it takes away automatically ANY criticizim against communism. It's silly... I know that capitalism hasn't ever been into full fruitition in any civilization either, because just like communism it's nearly impossilbe. The only way it could come about is through an anarchy, but not just of any ordinary anarchy but of one through which all people are nearly identical in behavior and tastes.

Still though, even in our mixed economy I can with confidence say that capitalism kicks much ass with confidence, because I have seen the benefits of it first hand.

But i know you didn't really "miss" that point. you just chose to think it's stupid. ok.
So yes- i understand your point too. but by that same yardstick a true Democracy has never been achieved. All we've had is Republic after Republic after Republic. so all this Bush talk of installing "democracies" all over the world is nonsense. he's installing Republics. and he should say so.

Oh yes, I agree. I wish Bush would read the constitution and what the founding fathers thought of democracies.

[Hades]

http://www.rochester-citynews.com/binary/c4dc788b/Joseph_McCarthy.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/F/c/pope_bono.jpg

[maxwell's demon]

welcome back block-head


i really did miss you most of all. (after muscles, that is):(


No I totally saw your argument FOR COMMUNISM (you commie scum! lol)

That was the point of my post.
Saying communism hasn't been "fully acheived" is just silly comment because it takes away automatically ANY criticizim against communism. It's silly... I know that capitalism hasn't ever been into full fruitition in any civilization either, because just like communism it's nearly impossilbe. The only way it could come about is through an anarchy, but not just of any ordinary anarchy but of one through which all people are nearly identical in behavior and tastes.

Still though, even in our mixed economy I can with confidence say that capitalism kicks much ass with confidence, because I have seen the benefits of it first hand.

bah! im no communist! i'm not an ANYthing-ist!:o

and hey- criticize whatever you want- all i was saying is maybe it'd be more sensible to to criticize people instead of ideas, and even better- to criticize people's actions instead of people themselves. that's all.
you might say democracies (republics) have worked better, but whats the criteria? money generated? life lost or gained? is that all you got? those things say nothing about the quality of life. those are only quantities.


Capitalism does kick much ass, apparently. Too bad its a bastardized form too. If people were more honest about commiting to it, it'd work a heck of a lot better.
i mean realllly, if you think there's "free", "fair" competition out there when little mom and pop shops get run out of town, and giant corporations get subsidized by our government (and with OUR tax dollars), and then spend large portions of that ginormous clout to even get laws written that help them get bigger and bigger, EVEN AS THEY CLAIM TO NOT want government "interference" then....i mean, you see the inherent comedy there. right?


Oh yes, I agree. I wish Bush would read the constitution and what the founding fathers thought of democracies.

i don't think he really likes reading much.:( he likes other people to read and then tell him how they feel about it all.

[Gonking]

Cheney almost killed that lawyer dude but failed. I don't think Bush has killed anyone.:confused:

hahahaha you are so ignorant. No lider of the Soviet Union, even Stalin, or of the United States has killed people with his own hands.

[Gonking]

I have a problem with Che Guevara being glorified by confessed pacifist as being a revolutionary by middle class white kids.

Plus I don't like him because he was a commie, because Communism takes away individuality and freedom from ones own government.:up:

VIVA LA CAPITALISM!!!


MUERTE AL CAPITALISMO!!!!!!

[Gonking]

I never said I like needless death, but we live in a fallen world it's a part of it. Killing civilians in war however sad, is a truth in ANY conflict today.

If in a war dies someone of your family, you will keep thinking like this?

I don't think so, but if you do you are insane.

[sinewave]

this thread only reinforces my distaste for conservativism.

[Gonking]

We are in Iraq fighting terrorist.


again... hahahahahahahahaha, please, stop making me laugh

[JLBats]

this thread only reinforces my distaste for conservativism.

Really? I would think Man-Thing's flaming narcissism would make you love him. He definitely shouldn't have his children taken away. I'm sure he's a lovely person.


:down

[sinewave]

Really? I would think Man-Thing's flaming narcissism would make you love him. He definitely shouldn't have his children taken away. I'm sure he's a lovely person.


:down

:confused: you lost me on that one. when did i say he should have his kids taken away?

[JLBats]

:confused: you lost me on that one. when did i say he should have his kids taken away?

...it's a secret hope of mine

[sinewave]

.....

[sinewave]

EVERY military personel I know said they felt they needed to go to Iraq.

The soldiers that I know, are curious as to why they are there.

Okay, the are the minority then...

read this. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html)

[Hooligan32]

He was a great man.

[Tangled Web]

read this. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html)
That's a very good article. Thanks for posting that.

[sinewave]

That's a very good article. Thanks for posting that.

you're welcome.

[The Overlord]

I don't care about WMD's, it would be nice if they found some, but I think it's nice that the terrorist using their rescources over there than here.

I'm not defending Bush on the WMD claim it bothers me too.

I will not defend Bush on his failed campaign promise which he said no to nation building either.

If the terrorists are so busy in Iraq then how did they find the time to pull off the 7-11 attacks in England last year?

[Speedball]

If the terrorists are so busy in Iraq then how did they find the time to pull off the 7-11 attacks in England last year?
Their is more than one terrorist group in the world. If it was the same organization as the people in Iraq, then it was a different cell.

[The Overlord]

Their is more than one terrorist group in the world. If it was the same organization as the people in Iraq, then it was a different cell.

So what's the point of the Iraq war, we are still going to have terrorists over here regardless. Al-Qaeda doesn't spend all its resources in Iraq and still has cells in various Western countries, so the whole "we're fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here" thing doesn't work.

[Speedball]

So what's the point of the Iraq war, we are still going to have terrorists over here regardless. Al-Qaeda doesn't spend all its resources in Iraq and still has cells in various Western countries, so the whole "we're fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here" doesn't work.
Your right, it doesn't work.
The only way to get rid of them is to hunt them down and kill them all, but that's just immorale and wrong.
America was built on beliefs that prevent that, so the easiest way to stop them is to take away their base of power, and Iraq, I think, is only the beginning.

[The Overlord]

Your right, it doesn't work.
The only way to get rid of them is to hunt them down and kill them all, but that's just immorale and wrong.
America was built on beliefs that prevent that, so the easiest way to stop them is to take away their base of power, and Iraq, I think, is only the beginning.

Saddam was a secular dictator, what does he have to do with Al-Qaeda?

[Speedball]

Saddam was a secular dictator, what does he have to do with Al-Qaeda?
He was a Dictator, he shouldn't have been in power in the first place.

[The Overlord]

He was a Dictator, he shouldn't have been in power in the first place.

The Saudi Monarchy is just a bunch of dictators and they get invited to Bush's ranch. Why the double standard on dictators?

[Speedball]

Whatever, politics is overrated.

[Tangled Web]

The Saudi Monarchy is just a bunch of dictators and they get invited to Bush's ranch. Why the double standard on dictators?
Because Bush is and always will be their *****. Why? For the oil. They were probably behind 9/11.

[Tangled Web]

Man-Thing, I know that your attitude towards our troops getting killed over there is that they shouldn't have enlisted in the firts place, but I found this quote
"I've always been amazed that the very people forced to live in the worst parts of town, go to the worst schools, and who have it the hardest, are always the first to step up, to defend that very system. They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is remarkable — their gift to us. And all they ask for in return, is that we never send them into harm's way unless it's absolutely necessary. Will they ever trust us again?"-Michael Moore

You must realize that many of the kids who are there are trying to immprove their situation and trust that they won't be sent in to action unless it is completely neccessary.

[Mr Sparkle]

He was a Dictator, he shouldn't have been in power in the first place.

he was a dictator in 86 too, and he was getting military aid from the US back then.
oh, and he was also a nutty genocidal creep.
didn't bother the US (or, strangely, it's citizens) much.

[Tangled Web]

he was a dictator in 86 too, and he was getting military aid from the US back then.
oh, and he was also a nutty genocidal creep.
didn't bother the US (or, strangely, it's citizens) much.
Very good point. How come these guys didn't have a problem with Sadamm back then, but they have a problem with a guy who's been dead for 50 years.

[Man-Thing]

Capitalism does kick much ass, apparently. Too bad its a bastardized form too. If people were more honest about commiting to it, it'd work a heck of a lot better.
i mean realllly, if you think there's "free", "fair" competition out there when little mom and pop shops get run out of town, and giant corporations get subsidized by our government (and with OUR tax dollars), and then spend large portions of that ginormous clout to even get laws written that help them get bigger and bigger, EVEN AS THEY CLAIM TO NOT want government "interference" then....i mean, you see the inherent comedy there. right?


I agree. A free market should be free of any government interference. No subsidizies, but likewise no government charity.

No lobbyist, no energy companies setting up an administration's energy policy.

Your right that's not capitalism.

It's actually closer to facism in the sense that it's the exact opposite of communism.

[maxwell's demon]

wow.:eek:

didn't expect we'd agree so easily.

but yeah...i agree that capitalism isn't such a bad system, if properly administrated and practiced. however i DO think some sort of limits have to be set in place by the goverment.
not limits as they're currently addressed, but rather tighter enforcement of laws, higher penalties, etc. Whenever one group gets too big for its britches, its really game over for everyone else. And its rare they can get that big without being unlawful or at least unethical* along the way.
And Communism is unworkable, at least in the current world climate (in any large scale). i agree to that. but I also don't think socialism is horrible (if not overly institutionalized).

Basically any "system" put in place has to be flexible enough to change/adopt to what the current times need. To not remain blind to its surroundings.
SO really, any succesful, sustainable system is going to have to utilize aspects of many different systems; at times more "b" and "d" than "q", at times more "q" and "w" than "b".


*ethics. that's really the absent element these days, isn't it?

[Man-Thing]

wow.:eek:

didn't expect we'd agree so easily.

but yeah...i agree that capitalism isn't such a bad system, if properly administrated and practiced. however i DO think some sort of limits have to be set in place by the goverment.
not limits as they're currently addressed, but rather tighter enforcement of laws, higher penalties, etc. Whenever one group gets too big for its britches, its really game over for everyone else. And its rare they can get that big without being unlawful or at least unethical* along the way.
And Communism is unworkable, at least in the current world climate (in any large scale). i agree to that. but I also don't think socialism is horrible (if not overly institutionalized).

Basically any "system" put in place has to be flexible enough to change/adopt to what the current times need. To not remain blind to its surroundings.
SO really, any succesful, sustainable system is going to have to utilize aspects of many different systems; at times more "b" and "d" than "q", at times more "q" and "w" than "b".


*ethics. that's really the absent element these days, isn't it?

ummm...
I would like to see things eased off a bit from the government as they are now.

But you are correct, there aren't ANY true free markets. The government has to limit some things like polution, and monopoloies.

But as far as "inside trading" goes, it doesn't really bother me.

[Karem-Knight]

What do you think of Che Guevara?

My thoughts are that I agree with him helping the poor and shaping Cuba to a better economy (Brazil which I come from would be better of with communism) Che helped Cuban people but he went over board with the killings.

[KingOfDreams]

I think he had his heart in the right place, as Castro did at one time but the means he used to justify the ends weren't so great much of the time. There's that old saying, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. As for Che, my opinion falls between the two.

[Manic]

"The road to hell is paved in good intentions."

[Harlekin]

Exactly. I hate how people often conveniently forget the fact that Che was also, essentially, a mass murderer.

[TheSumOfGod]

He reminds me of Pancho Villa, for some reason.

[Hudson]

He was a butcher, with good intentions. :o

[TheSumOfGod]

And he looks good on a poster or t-shirt. A true capitalist.

[SpideyLad]

And he looks good on a poster or t-shirt. A true capitalist.

I hate the fact that alot of people wander around with the picture on their T-Shirt or bag or something......

[TheSumOfGod]

Che Guevara, the Nike logo, a happy face, all the same.

[Outsiderzedge]

Guevara was hispanic. He was insignificant.

[Lurk]

Che Guevara, the Nike logo, a happy face, all the same.

Ah, the irony!

[Harlekin]

I hate the fact that alot of people wander around with the picture on their T-Shirt or bag or something......
Same here. Those people largely disgust me. It's also completely against everything Che stood for, being a dirty commie and all that.

[SpideyLad]

Same here. Those people largely disgust me. It's also completely against everything Che stood for, being a dirty commie and all that.

Exactly. 99% of them don't even know who the guy was. They probably think it's Hugo Boss or someone........

[Harlekin]

They frustrate me. They tend to forget the bit that comes after Che Guevara, freedom fighter, the little bit saying: murderer. Che Guevara isn't a good role model kids.

[Karem-Knight]

Guevara was hispanic. He was insignificant.

So everyone who is Hispanic is insignificant?

[SpideyLad]

Guevara was hispanic. He was insignificant.

Not the smartest of things to say.....

[TheSumOfGod]

Che had the decency of dying young and staying cool. Castro got old and lame. :o

[Lurk]

Ignore Outsiderzedge, he's just a -****disturber.

[Karem-Knight]

Che had the decency of dying young and staying cool. Castro got old and lame. :o

Yeah but you’re still young but lame. :o I wonder are you one of those people who think that tooth paste is evil?

[Lurk]

WTF are you talking about Karem?

[Outsiderzedge]

I'm sorry if my comment offended you.

[Karem-Knight]

WTF are you talking about Karem?

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239109

[Karem-Knight]

Yes. They possess neither the intelligence nor the inclination to lead humanity forward. It is unfortunate that not every people on this planet shows promise for intellectual development, but it is undeniably the reality of the matter.

You don’t know about Hispanic nations, The governments are powerfully corrupt, They cannot get better, It’s not the peoples fault it’s the leaders.

[Lurk]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239109 I figured you pigeon-holed him as a whacko, but your toothpaste comment baffles me.

[Karem-Knight]

I figured you pigeon-holed him as a whacko, but your toothpaste comment baffles me.

I think some whackos think toothpaste is evil :huh:

[SpideyLad]

Getting back on topic......

[Outsiderzedge]

You don’t know about Hispanic nations, The governments are powerfully corrupt, They cannot get better, It’s not the peoples fault it’s the leaders.





If a government is currupt and it's people fail or neglect to overthrow or change it, then they deserve to be ruled by such a government.

[hippie_hunter]

What do you think of Che Guevara?

My thoughts are that I agree with him helping the poor and shaping Cuba to a better economy (Brazil which I come from would be better of with communism) Che helped Cuban people but he went over board with the killings.

If history has shown, communism is a complete failure. Countries that are still communist are technically capitalist (China and Vietnam) or aren't exactly in the best of shape (Cuba and North Korea).

As a person who beleives in small government, I tend to beleive that communism is not the way to go.

Anyways, I love the irony that Che, a man who hated capitalism, is now being used by capitalists to sell t-shirts and posters :p

[Karem-Knight]

If a government is currupt and it's people fail or neglect to overthrow or change it, then they deserve to be ruled by such a government.

Why do you think? The rebels live in the shanti towns and get s*** from the cops. The citzens are powerless, the only way is what Che Guverara did, And it will end the same way.

[TheSumOfGod]

Yeah but you’re still young but lame. :o I wonder are you one of those people who think that tooth paste is evil?

Fluoride eventually causes brain damage, which is why I brush my teeth with baking soda. :o

[Karem-Knight]

Fluoride eventually causes brain damage, which is why I brush my teeth with baking soda. :o


I KNEW IT!

[EXCELSIOR]

Gents,
Let’s keep it civil shall we...

[Gonking]

Guevara was hispanic. He was insignificant.

so, are you nazi or something?

[Darthphere]

As a hispanic, Outsiderzedge is correct. :(

[Gonking]

As a hispanic, Outsiderzedge is correct. :(

For god's sake....

Si sos hispano debes entender esto: das lastima. Ninguna raza o civilización es insignificante. Outsiderzedge lo dijo en un sentido peyorativo, como si fueramos una mierda, no existieramos. Debes odiar mucho a tu propia cultura para hablar asi...

[Darthphere]

For god's sake....

Si sos hispano debes entender esto: das lastima. Ninguna raza o civilización es insignificante. Outsiderzedge lo dijo en un sentido peyorativo, como si fueramos una mierda, no existieramos. Debes odiar mucho a tu propia cultura para hablar asi...


Lo que no entiendes es que Outsiderzedge siempre dice cosas asi para poner la gente de punta. Esta bromeando, siempre lo hace, es su tipo de humor que algunas gente va a entender y otros se ofenden. Pero solo son bromas.

[Darthphere]

Also, its not safe to assume I knew how to read spanish only because im hispanic.

[Gonking]

Also, its not safe to assume I knew how to read spanish only because im hispanic.

... :huh:

[Colossal Spoons]

Lo que no entiendes es que Outsiderzedge siempre dice cosas asi para poner la gente de punta. Esta bromeando, siempre lo hace, es su tipo de humor que algunas gente va a entender y otros se ofenden. Pero solo son bromas.

I get the point :D

[kainedamo]

Outsiderzedge is either a racist or a troll, judging from his comments here and on other topics.

[Darthphere]

Outsiderzedge is either a racist or a troll, judging from his comments here and on other topics.


Or someone with a very dark sense of humor.

[Lurk]

Can his comments really be construed as humor of any kind?

[KingOfDreams]

Now how did I know that Man-Thing would post something like that? :whatever:

[kainedamo]

Can his comments really be construed as humor of any kind?


It is possible that he is giggiling away to himself.

[Darthphere]

Can his comments really be construed as humor of any kind?


Sure.

[Colossal Spoons]

I thought Outsiderzedge was a woman :confused:

[kainedamo]

I do not know anything about the man's personal philosophy, but after having read The Motorcycle Diaries I can say that he writes beautifully.


Does the book not say anything about his personal philosophy?

[Outsiderzedge]

I am sorry if my comments offended anyone.

Yes, its unfortunate what happened to Che. Zidane did avenge him, though.
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/d/6/f/d6f463cf8700363fa91c20b342722f62.gif

[CConn]

Generally, my feelings can be summed up as such:

Dude: Che Guevara.
Me: Who?
Dude: *explains who Che Guevara is*
Me: Haha. Communism.

Outsiderzedge is hilarious and apparently asian, btw.

[Outsiderzedge]

I am an african-american man.

[Jerry]

Well my thoughts on Che..zzzzzZZZZzzzzzzz...zzzzZZZZZzzzzzz...zzzZZZ.. .....

[heypapajinx]

my thoughts are that he was a very intelligent man who genuinely wanted to assist the people and change the social structure in Latin America. unfortunately, corruption is sometimes easier to give in to than to overcome.

and as far as the progess that Mexico and central America are making, there are many guerillas fighting for the power of the people and the overthrow of the government. but with unruly order, the process is slow and brutal. it's easy to say that "if people wanted it bad enough they could have it." but to be honest, for most people, all it takes is a gun in a loved ones face to get them to think otherwise.

and being a hispanic woman, i think it's safe to say that if anyone really believes that hispanics are insignificant, they should consider the SIGNIFICANT impact we have on this economy.

[Jerry]

Too bad half of them are illegal and are marching in the streets wanting citizenship and get free healthcare while honest working Americans struggle for things like that. What the hell is with that? You're an illegal alien and you march on OUR streets wanting citzenship? They should have just rounded them all up while they were doing that asinine march . Stop sprouting that bull****.

[Outsiderzedge]

my thoughts are that he was a very intelligent man who genuinely wanted to assist the people and change the social structure in Latin America. unfortunately, corruption is sometimes easier to give in to than to overcome.

and as far as the progess that Mexico and central America are making, there are many guerillas fighting for the power of the people and the overthrow of the government. but with unruly order, the process is slow and brutal. it's easy to say that "if people wanted it bad enough they could have it." but to be honest, for most people, all it takes is a gun in a loved ones face to get them to think otherwise.

and being a hispanic woman, i think it's safe to say that if anyone really believes that hispanics are insignificant, they should consider the SIGNIFICANT impact we have on this economy.

lol... the small amount of money illegal immigrants collectively acquire is insignificant compared to the wealth their non-hispanic employers have.

[Gonking]

Lo que no entiendes es que Outsiderzedge siempre dice cosas asi para poner la gente de punta. Esta bromeando, siempre lo hace, es su tipo de humor que algunas gente va a entender y otros se ofenden. Pero solo son bromas.


Bueno, si fue en broma me quedo mas tranquilo pero no sono a eso. En fin, supongo que cuando tu dijiste que eramos insignificantes tambien estabas bromeando...

[Darthphere]

Bueno, si fue en broma me quedo mas tranquilo pero no sono a eso. En fin, supongo que cuando tu dijiste que eramos insignificantes tambien estabas bromeando...


Pues claro.

[WilcofanAshes]

Che was a good man who, after realizing that it was impossible to stop the capitalist Americanism (that's spreading all over the world killing millions every day) by non-violent means, became a murderer. I feel the same way about Che Guevera as I do about Shell, Exxon/Mobil, DeBeers, Nike, Disney, etc. They are all murderers, the difference is that Che was trying to prevent these crimes from continuing.

[Manic]

Che was a good man who, after realizing that it was impossible to stop the capitalist Americanism (that's spreading all over the world killing millions every day) by non-violent means, became a murderer. I feel the same way about Che Guevera as I do about Shell, Exxon/Mobil, DeBeers, Nike, Disney, etc. They are all murderers, the difference is that Che was trying to prevent these crimes from continuing.
...by not leaving anyone left for the corporations to kill.

[Cyclops]

I think he's on way too many high school kids' T-shirts without those kids knowing a damn thing about who he was or what he did.

[heypapajinx]

lol... the small amount of money illegal immigrants collectively acquire is insignificant compared to the wealth their non-hispanic employers have.
i wasn't JUST talking about illegal immigrants. i was talking about all the hispanics and latinos in this country, illegal and legal, who contribute to the economy.
why does everyone assume that when talking about Hispanics you're talking about illegal people? there are plenty of legal citizens here that are from Spanish decent. and let's NOT forget that this was OUR land to begin with, so i don't consider ANY of the the people here from Mexico illegal aliens.

[heypapajinx]

Too bad half of them are illegal and are marching in the streets wanting citizenship and get free healthcare while honest working Americans struggle for things like that. What the hell is with that? You're an illegal alien and you march on OUR streets wanting citzenship? They should have just rounded them all up while they were doing that asinine march . Stop sprouting that bull****.
really?
how do they get free healthcare? the illegal immigrants from Mexico i know go to the health clinics where you have to pay up front cash for vaccinations. and if they are seriously injured, go to the emergency room where they ALSO pay in cash.
and how is it wrong for them to protest for their right for legal citizenship?
do you know how many immigrants we allow every year from other countries? and NOOOOone complains about THEM taking their jobs. and how many people in here really want to have the jobs that these people "take" anyways?
cleaining hotel rooms?
working construction?
washing dishes?
and most for less than what everyone else who is doing the same job are getting paid?

[Matt]

Well? I mean, people make this guy out to be some sort of hero or liberator when he was the exact opposite. This was a man who oppressed and killed hundreds of innocent people who simply had ties to those who opposed Castro. Kinda strange that he has become an icon for freedom.

[The Incredible Hulk]

yeah but he looks cool on a t-shirt so....


;)

[Malice]

Dont even know who this is.

[Franklin Richards]

Isn't he that Planet of the Apes guy?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[SuBe]

they are making a movie about him too

[ShadowBoxing]

I've seen kids with his T-shirt on. I always ask them "so, who is that?". They never know.

[Bathead]

Reminds me of the hero-worship of convicted cop-killer
Mumiya-Abu-Jamal. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't this "looks good on a T-shirt" effect.

[DeaDheaD]

I've seen kids with his T-shirt on. I always ask them "so, who is that?". They never know.

He's the guy from Rage Against the Machine.........duh FIGHT THE SYSTEM!!!!!

[The Senator]

Well? I mean, people make this guy out to be some sort of hero or liberator when he was the exact opposite. This was a man who oppressed and killed hundreds of innocent people who simply had ties to those who opposed Castro. Kinda strange that he has become an icon for freedom.

But I think we can agree that Benicio del Toro will kick ass as Che in the upcoming biopic from Steven Soderberg, no?

[The Incredible Hulk]

But I think we can agree that Benicio del Toro will kick ass as Che in the upcoming biopic from Steven Soderberg, no?

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news06/deltoro.jpg

[rdh007]

If I can rewind a couple of years:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee144/rdh007/Brian-guevaraLOGO.jpg
Viva La Peppers!!!

[Manic]

Reminds me of the hero-worship of convicted cop-killer
Mumiya-Abu-Jamal. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't this "looks good on a T-shirt" effect.
I thought the thing with Mumia was that there were people who genuinely believed he was innocent. You know, despite the half-dozen eye witnesses who either saw him do it or approach the victim shortly before gunshots were fired, the murder weapon being in his name, Mumia admitting it at the hospital, the mysterious "real shooter" only being seen by one witness, and Mumia's refusal to take the witness stand to defend himself.

[BobJM]

It's absolutely ridiculous. And what's worse is that people who wear shirts with him have no idea who he is.

[kainedamo]

I've seen kids with his T-shirt on. I always ask them "so, who is that?". They never know.

This happened to a friend of mine in a bar. Only, it wasn't a kid, it was a guy in his 20s. My friend figures he can strike up a conversation about Che, the guy had no ****ing clue who it is.

The t-shirt has become a trend.

[kainedamo]

Well? I mean, people make this guy out to be some sort of hero or liberator when he was the exact opposite. This was a man who oppressed and killed hundreds of innocent people who simply had ties to those who opposed Castro. Kinda strange that he has become an icon for freedom.

Look at it this way.

Bush killed a heck of a lot more people.

Some of the same people that make a villain out of Che think of Bush as a hero.

[Hobgoblin]

I've seen kids with his T-shirt on. I always ask them "so, who is that?". They never know.

People are ignorant and the corporations know it. All they have to do is say that Che was a freedom fighter and people will buy his image. In a hundred years, people could put Hitler's face on a T-Shirt and say he was a war hero, an artist and the leader of a nation that adored him.

[SuBe]

People are ignorant and the corporations know it. All they have to do is say that Che was a freedom fighter and people will buy his image. In a hundred years, people could put Hitler's face on a T-Shirt and say he was a war hero, an artist and the leader of a nation that adored him.
That probably won't happen, everyone knows how bad Hitler was. But, Mussoulini on a Tee-Shirt. I can see that. People will think its the Pringles Can Man.

[Hobgoblin]

That probably won't happen, everyone knows how bad Hitler was. But, Mussoulini on a Tee-Shirt. I can see that. People will think its the Pringles Can Man.

Ok, maybe Hitler was a stretch. But Mao? Stalin? Pol Pot? Idi Amin? How many people know their faces?

[SuBe]

Ok, maybe Hitler was a stretch. But Mao? Stalin? Pol Pot? Idi Amin? How many people know their faces?
Completely agree.

[kainedamo]

Do you guys think its possible that some of the hatred against Che comes from the fact that he helped to overthrow the US backed dictator Batista?

Overall it seems that some of Guevara's methods to eliminate opposition after Castro won, were extreme.

He was obviously a very intelligent person. He had a lot of writing, he wrote passionately about the cause of revolution that he helped to achieve.

So I mean, there are two sides to Che. The medical student that saw something very wrong with his country, and the soldier that went too far for his ideals.

[SuBe]

Do you guys think its possible that some of the hatred against Che comes from the fact that he helped to overthrow the US backed dictator Batista?

Overall it seems that some of Guevara's methods to eliminate opposition after Castro won, were extreme.

He was obviously a very intelligent person. He had a lot of writing, he wrote passionately about the cause of revolution that he helped to achieve.

So I mean, there are two sides to Che. The medical student that saw something very wrong with his country, and the soldier that went too far for his ideals.
You are right Kaine, I feel so bad now because I didn't like the Murdering Fascist, I didn't realize that he was just a Teddy Bear on the inside.

:whatever:

[fewbutcrazy]

There are multiple sides to everything. In many ways he was a liberator, trying to bring freedom to thousands of people. He has even been called "the most complete human being of our age." His image is being used now to merely make a profit without actually spreading any of his beliefs or ideals.

[Handsome Rob]

You are right Kaine, I feel so bad now because I didn't like the Murdering Fascist, I didn't realize that he was just a Teddy Bear on the inside.

:whatever:

My thoughts exactly. If only the world would focus on Hitler the student who wanted to express himself through art . . . that whole thing about killing Jews, cripples, Gypsies, homosexuals, the retarded--these don't really show the whole Fuhrer. :dry:

[ShadowBoxing]

And my, how the Fuhrer could dance :heart:
K08akOt2kuo

[Handsome Rob]

And my, how the Fuhrer could dance :heart:

Swing heil! Swing heil! :o

[dnno1]

yeah but he looks cool on a t-shirt so....


;)

So does Bob Marley.

[Matt]

Look at it this way.

Bush killed a heck of a lot more people.

Some of the same people that make a villain out of Che think of Bush as a hero.

That comparrison is absurd. Bush was not the personal executioner of children. He did not line up political dissidents on their knees and then personally put a bullet in their heads. To compare the two is ABSURD.

[luke1234]

That comparrison is absurd. Bush was not the personal executioner of children. He did not line up political dissidents on their knees and then personally put a bullet in their heads. To compare the two is ABSURD.

agreed, i cant believe he even has a following, its absurd. When ever i see the shirt i always *always call the person out wearing the shirt. 75% they dont know who he is

[ShadowBoxing]

Ok, maybe Hitler was a stretch. But Mao? Stalin? Pol Pot? Idi Amin? How many people know their faces?
Che was a freedom fighter though, so he rallied against the establishment, so I think most of those you list would be seen as too powerful. You'd have to pick a smaller figure I'd think. It's funny you mentioned Mao Zedong, because in his earlier life you could say he was a lot like Che in terms of his cultural relevance.
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/China/03/van/mao1.gif
That's an early picture of Mao, back when he was known as "Mao: man of thought and action".

[Manic]

I'll put it on a t-shirt and make millions!

[Hobgoblin]

Che was a freedom fighter though, so he rallied against the establishment, so I think most of those you list would be seen as too powerful. You'd have to pick a smaller figure I'd think. It's funny you mentioned Mao Zedong, because in his earlier life you could say he was a lot like Che in terms of his cultural relevance.


Couldnt the same be said about Lenin or Stalin? They both started out a minor revolutionaries who became absolute dictators. Just like Mao. They all started out small.

[ShadowBoxing]

Couldnt the same be said about Lenin or Stalin? They both started out a minor revolutionaries who became absolute dictators. Just like Mao. They all started out small.
Che never became powerful though. Also, while Stalin and Lenin weren't nearly as popular in their youth as Mao.

[hippie_hunter]

I always found it funny that the system that Che opposed is the one making a profit off his image :)

[CaptainClown]

I always found it funny that the system that Che opposed is the one making a profit off his image :)
I find it hilarious as well.

I have read a lot of biographies on Che and admire him for certain qualities and like Anakin Skywalker had good intentions but everything fell through in the end. I think why I admired him was his transformation of being a med student "doctor" to someone who was completely devoted to a cause. His means though is a totally different story.

[bunk]

Ha ha, cult following... hardly.

[Hobgoblin]

Che never became powerful though. Also, while Stalin and Lenin weren't nearly as popular in their youth as Mao.

Why does it matter if they became powerful or not? I would think that would be part of the attraction.

[ShadowBoxing]

Why does it matter if they became powerful or not? I would think that would be part of the attraction.
If he become the ruler of his society then he would be the established order and it would diminish his standing as a counter culture figure. Che is sort of immortalized as a rebel, unlike Castro who is seen more as a corrupt political leader. I'm not saying Che is necessarily different than other figures, but he died rebelling against his Government, and never became the Government. That's why he is so powerful in death. I'm sure if he became leader though, he'd just turn into another Castro.

[raybia]

Well? I mean, people make this guy out to be some sort of hero or liberator when he was the exact opposite. This was a man who oppressed and killed hundreds of innocent people who simply had ties to those who opposed Castro. Kinda strange that he has become an icon for freedom.

I don't know. They are kind of cute...in a culty type way.

[CaptainClown]

the che shirts remind me of this girl who bought a rolling stones shirt because it looked cool and had no idea who the rolling stones were.

[Hobgoblin]

If he become the ruler of his society then he would be the established order and it would diminish his standing as a counter culture figure. Che is sort of immortalized as a rebel, unlike Castro who is seen more as a corrupt political leader. I'm not saying Che is necessarily different than other figures, but he died rebelling against his Government, and never became the Government. That's why he is so powerful in death. I'm sure if he became leader though, he'd just turn into another Castro.

Yeah, I dont understand rebels. Being "the rebel" but going nowhere with it just makes you a tool. Its fun for a while, but then you want to overturn the established order and create your own. At least, thats my dream. :o

[Manic]

Unless you're V. Then you want to overturn the established order, and hope to god nobody tries to establish a new one after you die.

[The Senator]

Unless you're V. Then you want to overturn the established order, and hope to god nobody tries to establish a new one after you die.

Speaking of cult followings, I have had ENOUGH of these anti-Scientologists parading around the gayborhood here in DC with their V masks and literature quoting that damn movie. I want to go to a club, not stand around dressed in Halloween costumes protesting a religious organization which has NO EFFECT on my life whatsoever.

[gap5ewl]

Yes thankyouuuuuu for making a thread on this. I'm sick of people who consider a man who was notorious for beating people to death with a baseball bat in the streets if they were against his ally Fidel Castro a marytr. Come on people we have computers now it is so much easier to find out information on people. BTW, Guevera was a hardcore anti-materialist and I'm sure he would be pissed with all the tshirts and cofee mugs made in his honor.

[psychocheeseman]

It's absolutely ridiculous. And what's worse is that people who wear shirts with him have no idea who he is.
I know it sucks! I make it my duty to go up to people wearing Che shirts and tell them that he's my favorite mass murderer! - the awkward expressions are hilarious!

Also the irony of having a socialist leader depicted on a capitalist commodity that was probably made in an exploitative sweat shop, under the very conditions che was fighting against, is somehow lost on most young trendy kids with the shirts..

[Microchip]

If only they could channel that irony, have a shirt with Che having a big grin on his face with the thumbs up, and a big speech bubble saying "Just do it!"

[CaptainClown]

If only they could channel that irony, have a shirt with Che having a big grin on his face with the thumbs up, and a big speech bubble saying "Just do it!"
but I think the Irony is best when the kid is ignorant of who is on his shirt.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Firstly if you go in front of the UN an make an impassioned anti-imperialism speech, then fight imperialism around the world with rag tag groups of revolutionaries only to be targeted by the CIA and assassinated you're going to inspire millions in death.

Anyone anti-authoritarian can appreciate Che and what he had the balls to do. Most rebels are just going through "a stage", Che was the real deal. He was good-looking with rich parents but decided to fight with the poor in insect infested jungles in a global war against exploitation and imperialism. He could've lived like a rock star yet decided to fight with the poor in the jungles guerrilla style. No wonder he inspired so many poor and privileged alike. He was the ideal rebel. A real life robin hood.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Also the attemps to demonize the man are hilarious.

"He killed hundreds of people!!!"

"He killed children with baseball bats!!!"

"omg, teh commie raped and ate teh babies!!1!"

Like a game of telephone his legend has been distorted over time no doubt with the help of the CIA who killed him. Masters of misinformation that they are.

Che executed Batista sympathizers which was revenge for all the rebels Batista's dictatorship executed over years of tyranny. This is standard for any coup in 20th century Latin and South America. It's not what I would've done but I can understand why since it was traditional in that time and place. They weren't all going to go out for ice cream after being victims of violent oppression for decades.