Naughty Dog PS3

[Topdawg]

http://uk.media.ps3.ign.com/media/812/812550/vids_1.html

Trailer rom the E3 press conference.

its old but i havent seen a thread on this so.

this looks like a very cool game.:up:

[Sabretooth]

I wish they did another Jak game. Jak X was horrible.

[h2olover]

yay? pshhh. :thumbsdown:

[Topdawg]

^ you dont like anything that has to do with the ps3 do you?

[TheCardPlayer]

^ you dont like anything that has to do with the ps3 do you?Same for you about 360. Who cares? Fanboys will be fanboys. I'm one, you're one...whatever.

[Topdawg]

^ I actually i do like some games on the 360.lol

[h2olover]

ya there irrestible even for sony fanboys like you.

[Topdawg]

TROLL+N00b=H20lover.

[Mr. Vice]

I knew this thread was gonna be trouble:o

[h2olover]

TROLL+N00b=H20lover.
OH M***** AND ******************=TOP**TTYDAW**********
******** ********
UGH I HATE YOU.

[Topdawg]

^ Stfu Idiot.

[TheCardPlayer]

TROLL+N00b=H20lover.Any posts of yours that can't be easily turned against you?

[h2olover]

^ Stfu Idiot.
1)you are the worst idiot on the hype
2)im done with you, these arguments are pointless
3)take me out of your sig i dont wish to be in there.

[Topdawg]

Any posts of yours that can't be easily turned against you?

Are you in love with h2olover or something? Lemming:down

[Topdawg]

1)you are the worst idiot on the hype
2)im done with you, these arguments are pointless
3)take me out of your sig i dont wish to be in there.


1.Youre a retard
2.Youre a retard
3.no.

****ing n00b:down

[Extromaniac]

Are you in love with h2olover or something? Lemming:down

No, it's just true man. You have some pretty bad and trollish posts as well. H20lover has just as many, but you have to realize you do some of that **** too. Intentionally or not.

[h2olover]

dude i think we all know topdawg is much worse than me. oh and btw topdawg, your officially in my sig now.

[Topdawg]

^ So are you TWiCE!

[Extromaniac]

^ So are you TWiCE!

Dude, best solution is just to ignore it. That goes to both of you. :o

[h2olover]

oh wow that makes you really cool doesnt it.

[h2olover]

and that was intended for topdawg btw.

[Topdawg]

stop trolling n00b.

[WhatsHisFace]

It looks okay, I think Crysis is doing a much better job with rendering jungles, as this seems a bit behind the curve.

The guy reminds me of Hal Sparks, which is unfortunate. :(

[h2olover]

im done with you in this thread.

[Mr. Vice]

Is there one thread where anybody is NOT flaming each other?

[Zenien]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1827/nd8dv.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3728/nd26cy.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1881/nd64jn.jpg

The game will be great, since Naughty Dog is one of the most talented developers in the industry today. I'm terying to find a few gifs of the trailer that really help sell you on how detailed it actually is.

Basically everything on the main character has acurate physics, from his necklace to the bead thing on it, his shirt actually stretches and creases realistically and everything as well. I wish they were making another Jak game, but this could turn out great.

[Mr. Vice]

I hope that's real...

[Zenien]

It's Naughty Dog, the only think that would be scripted about that trailer would be the animations I'm betting. It's not nearly flawless enough looking to be fake.

But yet agin this is Naughty Dog, they'll hit that animation bar.

[Mr. Vice]

It's Naughty Dog, the only think that would be scripted about that trailer would be the animations I'm betting. It's not nearly flawless enough looking to be fake.

But yet agin this is Naughty Dog, they'll hit that animation bar.

That's good to hear then:up:

[Spidey-Bat]

They should just stick to Jak :o

[h2olover]

Is there one thread where anybody is NOT flaming each other?
ever since topdawg came no.

[Zenien]

You are not helping.

[TheCardPlayer]

Jeebus, this game looks gorgeous.

[The Last Meatbag]

I want more Jak and Daxter.......and a Ratchet and Clank game, but no more arena **** :mad:

[Sabretooth]

They're making another Ratchet game for PSP,and another one after that for PS3 I think....


No Jak though:(

[Manny Calavera]

Naughty Dog is one of the most talented developers in the industry today.
No, that's almost the exact opposite of reality. I'll admit that Sony has two talented first party devs (Insomniac and Sucker Punch), but the rest are awful, including Naughty Dog. The only thing they've ever made are bad games and repulsively annoying characters, how can you say they're are one of the most talented out there? :(

[Mr. Credible]

wow... that game looks freaking great.

[WhatsHisFace]

Crysis has much, much better graphics and the world is much more open.

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/705/705664/crysis-20060508022308296.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/702/702309/crysis-20060419092903240.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/702/702309/crysis-20060419092917942.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/702/702309/crysis-20060419092928348.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/702/702309/crysis-20060419092926676.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/702/702309/crysis-20060419092922785.jpg

Naughty Dog is one of Sony's more talented developers, but compared to the rest of the industry, they're really average.

[Zenien]

That's some broken logic if I've ever read any.

Compared to the rest of the industry... that must be why Gabe from Valve has said that Naughty Dog is the furthest developer along parrallel coding out of all the devs he knows in the industry.

And Crysis on those shots is running on 2 gigs of ram with specs beyond the 360 or PS3. Crysis is not 'the rest of the industry' it's the top bar as far as technical platform requirements go. Which gives them a huge window to work with in terms of what they can do.

Your troll attempt failed, sorry, and Naughty Dogs game is years away.

[Zenien]

Annnd before you finish that Reply:

They've already said Crysis wouldn't be on consoles due to technical constraints.

But

The 'magic' of Crysis is its LOD system and having all that ram to work with.

[WhatsHisFace]

Compared to the rest of the industry... that must be why Gabe from Valve has said that Naughty Dog is the furthest developer along parrallel coding out of all the devs he knows in the industry.
And that has to do with...? First of all, Gabe Newell apparently doesn't know Epic, Starbreeze, Bungie, Ubisoft, Bethesda or Id Software because their games all look better than this. Second, Naughty Dog is by and large, a rather lousy developer. They peaked with Jak and Daxter 1, and then POP'd it.

And Crysis on those shots is running on 2 gigs of ram with specs beyond the 360 or PS3. Crysis is not 'the rest of the industry' it's the top bar as far as technical platform requirements go. Which gives them a huge window to work with in terms of what they can do.
The Crysis engine is also being ported to those two consoles as we speak, and you should believe that it will look very close to Crysis in the end. I remember being surprised in how well they got Farcry onto the Xbox, which had incredibly lower specs than even the minimum System Requirements. I went from playing it at Max settings on the PC to the Xbox, and while they weren't identical, they were shockingly close, character models aside.

[Zenien]

Yes they doing the engine, but have said no to Crysis. It might happen, who knows.

So you know more the Gabe now?

[WhatsHisFace]

They've already said Crysis wouldn't be on consoles due to technical constraints.
It's engine is being ported over, prepare for the game.

The 'magic' of Crysis is its LOD system and having all that ram to work with.
That's true, but LOD isn't exactly a RAM whore, as models cost very little memory.

Also keep in mind that Crysis is rendering an island, whereas this game looks like a hallway of trees, more POP than GTA.

[WhatsHisFace]

Yes they doing the engine, but have said no to Crysis.

So you know more the Gabe now?
They also said no Farcry, and this is EA we're talking about. Crytek probably won't (once again) handle the port, but EA will not be sitting on a highly anticipated property such as this for long.

EA's doing a lot of PC-to-Console ports this gen already, so dont expect their most anticipated IP to stay in one spot.

[Zenien]

But having all those textures and advanced lighting/effects is a ram whore, which is where Crisis benefits the most.

[WhatsHisFace]

But having all those textures and advanced lighting is a ram whore, which is where Crisis benefits the most
Textures are a RAM whore unless you're using John Carmack's mega-texture technology (we're seeing a form of it in Quake Wars but the full version will be in the upcoming Wolfenstein 2) and advanced lighting is more of a GPU whore, but luckily the 360 GPU has unified shader architecture which thankfully frees up a lot of processes and it will all flow very nicely.

[Zenien]

USA for Xenos is overall weaker then the pixle and vertex shaders (you can't just pick and choose which you want delegated and they don't work on the fly, you have to balance them) for the RSX. USA has its advantages for sure, but it's not a magic bullet and there are trade offs.

Q&A: Naughty Dog's PS3 Project
The famed developer brings us jungle action, hidden treasure, and the legacy of Jak and Daxter... any questions?
by Jeremy Dunham
May 26, 2006 - Among the several premiere games unveiled at Sony's 2006 E3 press conference was a brand new untitled project from the guys at Naughty Dog. Void of an official title and one of the best looking games at the presentation, the unnamed project had show-goers and viewers at home wondering if the jungle-themed trailer was built using target renders or if it was actual in-game action.



To find out, we hooked up with Naughty Dog's own game designer Evan Wells. With previous credits that include work on titles like Crash Team Racing, Crash: Warped, Enter the Gecko, and ToeJam and Earl, Evan has experience in the realm of fun. We shot over some quick questions about his team's new mystery project and this is what he had to say:


IGN: To begin, let us just say that your trailer looks pretty awesome and we were immediately interested the moment we saw it. We weren't the only ones either; did you expect it to go over as big as it did?

Evan Wells: We've been working hard on this game for quite some time so it is good to hear that the debut of our trailer was met with enthusiasm.

IGN: Definitely. Of course, we think that the most important question that a lot of people have right now is "how much of that footage was CG and how much was real-time?"

Wells: The entire trailer was rendered in real-time using our PS3 game engine. All of the models, textures, shaders and effects are in-game.

IGN: Important question number two: what the heck is this game called? "Untitled Naughty Dog PS3 game" can't be final. But if it is, that's awesome!

Wells: We are working on the title of the game. You'd be surprised at what a complicated process that can be.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/710/710266/naughty-dog-ps3-project-untitled-20060526042802867-000.jpg

IGN: How long has the game been in development?

Wells: We have been ramping up development for over a year and a half. At first it was just a few programmers working on technology but slowly over time designers and artists were added to the team as the game moved from pre-production into full production.

IGN: When we first saw the trailer and screenshots we immediately thought the main character looked like Jason Rubin. Is that just our imagination or are you just paying homage?

Wells: It's interesting that we've received so many questions about who our hero looks like. I've literally been told that he looks like over half a dozen different people. We weren't trying to model him after anybody specific and the concept artist who drew the original sketches hasn't even met Jason Rubin. So, as they say in the movies… "Any similarities to persons living or dead are purely coincidental."

IGN: What sort of game is it anyway? Our Initial impressions here is that it looks to be a cross between Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 4 with a heavy emphasis on action? Lenny Croft?



Wells: Sticking with Naughty Dog tradition, this is a third-person action adventure game with heavily story-based gameplay. There will obviously be a lot of traversal mechanics, two-fisted brawling, gunplay, and puzzle solving. We're trying to evoke the mood and emotions from a classic pulp adventure, but give it a modern day twist so you can expect a lot of dramatic stunts and exciting cliff-hanging moments.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/710/710266/naughty-dog-ps3-project-untitled-20060526042800195-000.jpg

IGN: How close will the actual gameplay be to what was shown in the trailer?

Wells: This trailer is really just the tip of the iceberg as far as what you can expect from the gameplay in the final product. Animation has been a huge focus for us in terms of where we've been spending our development resources and is really something that we think will set next-generation games apart from current-gen. Bringing a realistic human character to life in a believable way, but still maintaining the controllability has been our emphasis.

IGN: There are some really cool moves shown in the trailer, especially the fight moves. The scene where the lead character smacks that guy against the wall; is that possible in the real game?

Wells: As I mentioned, fighting and brawling are important aspects of the gameplay and our animation system allows us to take it to the next level on the PS3 -- but we also want to give a very cinematic presentation to the action. This means a heavily-scripted camera that highlights key moments of gameplay. We've actually hired the designer behind the camera of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time to head up our camera efforts.

IGN: Is the entire games set in the jungle or are there other locations?

Wells: The game takes place primarily on a jungle island. However, there are a large variety of settings on, around and below the island where the adventure will take place.

IGN: What can you tell us about the storyline? The trailer hints at a treasure and a curse. What sort of background are we looking at?

Wells: Unfortunately, at this time, the hints in the trailer are all that we can reveal about the storyline so far.

IGN: Does this more realistic look mean that Naughty Dog is done with "mascot" type titles?



Wells: As mentioned before, the technology of the PS3 allows us to achieve this more realistic style in a believable manner, but it doesn't exclude us from working with a more stylized approach as we have in the past. So really, our options have just been expanded.

IGN: What is it like programming for the PlayStation 3 compared to the PS2?

Wells: Like the PS2 the PS3 is a sophisticated and powerful piece of hardware. Our engineers are working very hard at making specific optimizations to take full advantage of the Cell and its SPU's. However, there is so much depth to this machine, that much like the PS2, you will continue to see developers squeeze more and more out of it over the course of what I am sure is going to be a lengthy life-cycle.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/710/710266/naughty-dog-ps3-project-untitled-20060526042751368-000.jpg

IGN: The art style is actually pretty cool. It's definitely unique. What can you tell us about its origin and your decision for going after this kind of style?

Wells: It was a very conscious decision to head in this particular direction. Looking at the landscape of next-generation games being developed it was clear that there were a gluttony of titles that featured bald, buff space marines wearing body armor and fighting aliens. Fortunately for us, we didn't have much interest in heading in that direction and we felt that we could work in a style that really excited us and stand out from the crowd at the same time.

IGN: What kind of technology are you using? Is it a proprietary engine or does it use a popular toolset like Unreal of Offset?

Wells: The engine we are using is completely proprietary and is being developed here at Naughty Dog. We have some of the industry's top engine programming talent dedicated to getting the most out of the PlayStation 3 possible.

IGN: Insomniac and Naughty Dog have a history of sharing assets and technology. Is that the case this time as well? Does Resistance and this game work on similar stuff?

Wells: With the introduction of the SCE Worldwide Studio there has been an increased sharing effort between the internal teams. It extends far beyond Naughty Dog and Insomniac this time and I think you'll see a lot of first party titles that reap these benefits.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/710/710266/naughty-dog-ps3-project-untitled-20060526042752539-000.jpg

IGN: When is it coming out?

Wells: We have not announced the release date yet, so please be patient.

IGN: Any last comments you'd like to add as a goodbye to IGN readers?

Wells: I hope you're as excited about the next title coming out of Naughty Dog as we are. This trailer is just the beginning and you can expect many more details to follow over the coming months.

[arachnid-guy]

wow.


just....wow.

[WhatsHisFace]

USA for Xenos is overall weaker then the pixle and vertex shaders (you can't just pick and choose which you want delegated and they don't work on the fly, you have to balance them) for the RSX. USA has its advantages for sure, but it's not a magic bullet and there are trade offs.
It's been said by basically every developer that the 360 GPU is superior to the PS3's, and unlike the PS3's, it supports the Direct X API (huge advantage) and once again, will perform better and faster thanks to USA.

What you're saying doesn't make sense, as pixle and vertex shaders fall under that umbrella.

[Zenien]

No it makes sense WHF and I'm not going to repond anymore to let you use this thread as your soap box for trolling the PS3.

[WhatsHisFace]

No it makes sense WHF and I'm not going to repond anymore to let you use this thread as your soap box for trolling the PS3.
Don't Spiderdogg me!

[Zenien]

I didn't say I was. :confused:

[WhatsHisFace]

Oh, but you are.

I've always seen this coming, I just can't believe it's actually happening.

[Zenien]

I'm not putting you on ignore... :confused:

[zeptron]

I wish Naughty Dog will do another Crash Bandicoot game.

[WhatsHisFace]

I wish Naughty Dog will do another Crash Bandicoot game.
Sorry, that's Traveller's Tales territory now that they let Vivendi have their way with the franchise.

But Traveller's Tales are onto bigger and better things now, like Lego Starwars.

Just hope Eurocom doesn't get development. :(

[Manny Calavera]

That's some broken logic if I've ever read any.

Compared to the rest of the industry... that must be why Gabe from Valve has said that Naughty Dog is the furthest developer along parrallel coding out of all the devs he knows in the industry.

And Crysis on those shots is running on 2 gigs of ram with specs beyond the 360 or PS3. Crysis is not 'the rest of the industry' it's the top bar as far as technical platform requirements go. Which gives them a huge window to work with in terms of what they can do.

Your troll attempt failed, sorry, and Naughty Dogs game is years away.
Gabe Newell also thought that "hey, let's turn a good FPS into a bad game that has no plot, a ton of boring ass vehicle sequences, and 90% annoying enemies" was a good idea. I don't really care about Gabe Newell. Naughty Dog is untalented.

[Manny Calavera]

It's been said by basically every developer that the 360 GPU is superior to the PS3's, and unlike the PS3's, it supports the Direct X API (huge advantage) and once again, will perform better and faster thanks to USA.

What you're saying doesn't make sense, as pixle and vertex shaders fall under that umbrella.
She's right in that the unified shaders aren't perfect and there is a downside to them, but I'd just like to make sure that everyone knows that even so, Xenos still outperforms RSX, hugely.

[Zenien]

Hugely is a bold statement. Carmack said they had a 'slight' GPU advantage while the PS3 has a CPU advantage when they utilize the SPE's (which all devs will). and SPE's can be used for graphics. :o

[Manny Calavera]

Yeah but Carmack meant to say "huge" GPU advantage while the 360 has a huge CPU advantage as well. He just slipped up.

[Topdawg]

the interview says it all.....

[Zenien]

This part evokes cool things:

Sticking with Naughty Dog tradition, this is a third-person action adventure game with heavily story-based gameplay. There will obviously be a lot of traversal mechanics, two-fisted brawling, gunplay, and puzzle solving. We're trying to evoke the mood and emotions from a classic pulp adventure, but give it a modern day twist so you can expect a lot of dramatic stunts and exciting cliff-hanging moments.

I'm looking forward to this. You can never go wrong with a Naughty Dog game.

[Manny Calavera]

Unless you attempt to purchase one, or worse, play one, which is very wrong.

[Topdawg]

I cant wait for this game....

[Speedball]

It looks OK at best.
It doesn't have anything that makes me go WOW!
It's pretty, but how does it play?

[The Last Meatbag]

I think it looks awesome, but I dont have enough munnies :(

[Topdawg]

lol. save for it.

[The Last Meatbag]

I have to buy Dead Rising and the Wii and a new TV :(

[Speedball]

I have to buy Dead Rising and the Wii and a new TV :(
Get those, forget this game.

[The BatDude]

This game looks really nice

[블라스]

That game looks really nice, but...Indy Jones much? :mad:

[Speedball]

Is this really the first time you people have seen this trailer?
I saw it months ago when E3 happened.
I thought is was kinda dull then, and i still do.
It looks like a Tomb Raider/Indiana Jones wanna be.

[Topdawg]

^ Only better than those two.

[Speedball]

WOW!
You really are a Sony fan boy.
Let me guess, you have a Sony Computer, TV, Cellphone.
Even your avatar is Sony.
why don't you get your own life instead having Sony own it.

[Topdawg]

WOW!
You really are a Sony fan boy.
Let me guess, you have a Sony Computer, TV, Cellphone.
Even your avatar is Sony.
why don't you get your own life instead having Sony own it.

No,No and NO!

I like spiderman not sony, retard:down

[Speedball]

And Spider-man was made by Columbia Pictures owned by none other than- SONY.

[Zenien]

Is this really the first time you people have seen this trailer?
I saw it months ago when E3 happened.
I thought is was kinda dull then, and i still do.
It looks like a Tomb Raider/Indiana Jones wanna be.

The assertion that it would be a better game then either the new Indiana Jones game or the newest Tomb Raider isn't a stretch. This is Naughty Dog and neither of those games are amazing.

[Speedball]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
That was a Joke right? cause it was hilarious!

[Zenien]

I look forward to blowing you the frack away in Beyond the Red Line (in a Viper Mark III no less).

[Speedball]

What the frack is beyond the red line?

[블라스]

Tomb Raider: Legend is amaaaaazing, and the new Indy Jones will be 10,000 times better.

This game? Looks very fun! I just don't like the ripoff character....but I do love his converse shoes :up: :o

[WhatsHisFace]

I'm looking forward to this. You can never go wrong with a Naughty Dog game.
Unless it's Jak 2, 3, or X.

[WhatsHisFace]

She's right in that the unified shaders aren't perfect and there is a downside to them, but I'd just like to make sure that everyone knows that even so, Xenos still outperforms RSX, hugely.
That's basically what I was trying to say.

And Zenien, Carmack was so impressed with the 360 that for the first time ever, he abandoned the PC as his primary development platform in favor of the 360.

[Zenien]

Unless it's Jak 2, 3, or X.

And you couldn't be more wrong.

[블라스]

I played one of the Ratchet y Clank games (I think the 2nd. one) and it was pretty good :up:
So Naughty Dog has some good games, I guess.

[The Last Meatbag]

Ratchet and Clank is supah fun....ceptin' the damn spaceship missions :(
and they find a way to do things that are actually funny without making it an M rated game :o
Jak 2 was fun, really hard, to an annoying degree, but still fun. And Jak 3 was great :mad:

They were able to pull off humor in a not really vulgar way as well :o

[The Last Meatbag]

I played one of the Ratchet y Clank games (I think the 2nd. one) and it was pretty good :up:
So Naughty Dog has some good games, I guess.

Ratchet and Clank are owned by Insomniac :o

still a good game though

[블라스]

Oh :O

[Sabretooth]

Unless it's Jak 2, 3, or X.
Jak 2 was the greatest game in the series......:confused:

[Zenien]

Agreed, Jak II owns.

[Extromaniac]

I didn't care for any of the Jak games.. I have more respect for RPGs and FPS genres. I didn't think the games sucked THAT bad though. : /

[Manny Calavera]

Jak 2 was the greatest game in the series......:confused:
The greatest game in a series of ****ty games = another ****ty game.

[Sabretooth]

How is it possibly ****ty?

[The FallenAngel]

Jak II is so badass. How could it be ****ty? :confused:

[Manny Calavera]

By not being fun, visually impressive, or any way NOT ****ty?

[Sabretooth]

Not visually impressive? Sorry it's not photo realistic like 99% of the games on the market today. The cartoony look is almost Naughty Dog's signature thing. Which is why it's suprising they went for a more realistic game with this PS3 thing. :o

As for not being fun,whatever dude. I thought it had a really nice balance between the guns and Dark powers. Not to mention how badass the hoverboard was.

[Manny Calavera]

That's cool. Jak II and Naughty Dog are still terrible blights upon the games industry though.

[titan101]

That's cool. Jak II and Naughty Dog are still terrible blights upon the games industry though.jak2 AND naughtydog pwn your pathetic soul.


and how is it not visually impressive? i loved the graphics.

[Manny Calavera]

Yes, they do "pwn" my soul, because I've never been as depressed as I am when playing them. As for how they're not visually impressive, well there's the ****ty art assets and art design and rendering engine to start with...

[titan101]

Yes, they do "pwn" my soul, because I've never been as depressed as I am when playing them. As for how they're not visually impressive, well there's the ****ty art assets and art design and rendering engine to start with...man, you have no taste. if you think the game looks " ****ty " you've obviously haven't been to haven forest. you probably just don't like the game because it's "too hard " for you.

[Manny Calavera]

Yeah, I started playing games before the playstation came out and turned the gaming populace into a bunch of pussies. It's not that they're "hard", because they're actually kind of easy, even compared to modern stuff, it's that they're "bad" and that they "suck ass".

[titan101]

It's not that they're "hard", because they're actually kind of easy, even compared to modern stuff. yeah, right. :rolleyes: i bet you couldn't even make it through the first level!!

[Manny Calavera]

You honestly think I don't like them because they're too "hard"? What are you, five? http://media.teamxbox.com/forum/smilies/lol.gif

[titan101]

You honestly think I don't like them because they're too "hard"? What are you, five? http://media.teamxbox.com/forum/smilies/lol.gif i think that because that's usually WHY five year olds like you whine and whine about video games.http://media.teamxbox.com/forum/smilies/lol.gif


so anyway, i'm done right now because i don't want to continue this "epic flame war " over a video game so let's get back on topic.

[Manny Calavera]

You caught me. I dislike the games because they're too hard. Wow :dry:

[batman7289]

down

[Trigger]

up?