Goyer's Venom script?

[Sabretooth]

Anybody know where I can find the script for the Venom film that got canned?

[gvcool2]

there was a script?

[ScarletSpider]

Yeah I remember being told about it before, something about the symbiotes coming from some ancient spider-planet, so Spider-Man wasn't needed for the origin, and Carnage was the villain etc. I don't know where the script can be found I'm affraid.

Thank ***** that film was never made.

[nolan's roll'n]

Yeah I remember being told about it before, something about the symbiotes coming from some ancient spider-planet, so Spider-Man wasn't needed for the origin, and Carnage was the villain etc. I don't know where the script can be found I'm affraid.

Thank ***** that film was never made.


:up:

[Sabretooth]

Wow. Nobody has the script?

[Joker]

the script never leaked, there was a review on some site, or goyer talked about it or something, that's all we ever saw

[Donnie Darko]

is there anywhere we can see a review of the script or anything?

[jaydawg]

I've read a plot summary that broke it down, but not the actualy script. Just like everything Goyer, it was ass.

[gvcool2]

I've read a plot summary that broke it down, but not the actualy script. Just like everything Goyer, it was ass.

you mean everything except batman begins right?

[Scar Predator]

Yeah I remember being told about it before, something about the symbiotes coming from some ancient spider-planet, so Spider-Man wasn't needed for the origin, and Carnage was the villain etc. I don't know where the script can be found I'm affraid.

Thank ***** that film was never made.

Now that Raimi is gutting Venom, I'm wishing more and more that Goyer could have made that film. It would have been edgy and dark like Blade instead of having a band camp reject playing a ferocious villian.

[CConn]

Now that Raimi is gutting Venom, I'm wishing more and more that Goyer could have made that film. It would have been edgy and dark like Blade instead of having a band camp reject playing a ferocious villian.I don't know about you, but I'd take a comic accurate Brock/Venom played by a band camp reject than a movie based on this crap:
Yeah I remember being told about it before, something about the symbiotes coming from some ancient spider-planet, so Spider-Man wasn't needed for the origin, and Carnage was the villain etc. I don't know where the script can be found I'm affraid.

Thank ***** that film was never made.

[Dr.Dude]

While I'd love to get a chance to read the script, mainly out of curiosity.... I can tell even from just the bits of information that have leaked out and Goyer's own disinterest in the project, that overall it sounds like this movie just wouldn't have.... worked.

The fact of it is, Venom's entire character is too latched onto Spider-Man to ever be seperated. The character is sooo closely connected to the ol' wallcrawler that taking Spidey out not only changes the story, but fundamentally alters both Eddie and the symbiote's characters and prime motivations.

Spider-Man 3 has the right idea with its approach --- Venom is the climax, the third act to Spider-Man's symbiote saga. It all ties together and makes for a terrific, full story in the end that just wouldn't work if you cut out any of the necessary elements or rushed any of it.

But all that said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a Venom spinoff movie someday.... as long as Carnage is in it.... ;)

[Scar Predator]

I don't know about you, but I'd take a comic accurate Brock/Venom played by a band camp reject than a movie based on this crap:

That's just it, the Venom in SM3 is going to be anything but accurate.

[Scar Predator]

While I'd love to get a chance to read the script, mainly out of curiosity.... I can tell even from just the bits of information that have leaked out and Goyer's own disinterest in the project, that overall it sounds like this movie just wouldn't have.... worked.

The fact of it is, Venom's entire character is too latched onto Spider-Man to ever be seperated. The character is sooo closely connected to the ol' wallcrawler that taking Spidey out not only changes the story, but fundamentally alters both Eddie and the symbiote's characters and prime motivations.

Spider-Man 3 has the right idea with its approach --- Venom is the climax, the third act to Spider-Man's symbiote saga. It all ties together and makes for a terrific, full story in the end that just wouldn't work if you cut out any of the necessary elements or rushed any of it.

But all that said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a Venom spinoff movie someday.... as long as Carnage is in it.... ;)

That's true. There would need to be a very good reason for Venom to harbor the animosity that is the basis of the Venom character. Apart from Spidey, it would have to be a completely new backstory.
However, that's what Goyer did with Blade. He overhauled the character and made it work on the big screen. If he had worked from a decent premise, then I'm sure he could have brough out Venom's attributes.
In the future, I'd be 100% behind a spinoff movie w/ Venom & Carnage.

[Hunter Rider]

Spider Planet ?:confused:

[CConn]

That's just it, the Venom in SM3 is going to be anything but accurate.How so? From what (limited) information we have, his origin seems to have remained relatively intact, and his characterization (as Brock at least) was pretty spot on in the Comic Con trailer. Venom's screen time looks like it's going to get short-changed (and I am quite concerned about that), but that's not a matter of accuracy.

And in any case, all of that is a thousand times better than an effing Spider-Planet.

[cerealkiller182]

What if a Venom spin off can be made? I know Goyers script involved a train wreck the was holding two criminals (Brock and Cassidy) and two symbiotes. Instead, Brock is being transported with the symbiote and Cassidy. The symbiote "gives birth" and then the wreck and eventually Venom vs. Carnage (the whole lesser of two evils style)

[Lord Blackbolt]

I won't mind a Venom spin-off at all....After Spiderman 3... if that movie really is the last Spidey movie for a while. Though...that's only if Brock or Venom even survives Spidey 3

[Sabretooth]

I think Venom could definitely work as a spin off. Just please,no Spider Planet.:(

[Lord Blackbolt]

I wonder where Venom will come from in Spidey 3?

[Mr. Vice]

Yeah I remember being told about it before, something about the symbiotes coming from some ancient spider-planet, so Spider-Man wasn't needed for the origin, and Carnage was the villain etc. I don't know where the script can be found I'm affraid.

Thank ***** that film was never made.

If that would've ever been created, then....http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-019.gif

[kaijunexus]

That's just it, the Venom in SM3 is going to be anything but accurate.

lol @ you, dude. just...lol @ you.

[Scar Predator]

How so? From what (limited) information we have, his origin seems to have remained relatively intact, and his characterization (as Brock at least) was pretty spot on in the Comic Con trailer. Venom's screen time looks like it's going to get short-changed (and I am quite concerned about that), but that's not a matter of accuracy.

And in any case, all of that is a thousand times better than an effing Spider-Planet.

Raimi's stupid "mirror image" route is anything but accurate. Instead of getting a massive, brooding Brock, we get a whiny, teenager style envy story. The story vaguely resembles Brock origin and Topher doesn't resemble Brock's essential physicality in the slightest.

I hope--with all my heart--that a director comes along someday and gives Venom his just due. A guy like Goyer would be the man for that.

[gvcool2]

Raimi's stupid "mirror image" route is anything but accurate. Instead of getting a massive, brooding Brock, we get a whiny, teenager style envy story. The story vaguely resembles Brock origin and Topher doesn't resemble Brock's essential physicality in the slightest.

I hope--with all my heart--that a director comes along someday and gives Venom his just due. A guy like Goyer would be the man for that.

ye just look at Blade trinity for evidence :confused:

[ShadowBoxing]

Raimi's stupid "mirror image" route is anything but accurate. Instead of getting a massive, brooding Brock, we get a whiny, teenager style envy story. The story vaguely resembles Brock origin and Topher doesn't resemble Brock's essential physicality in the slightest.

I hope--with all my heart--that a director comes along someday and gives Venom his just due. A guy like Goyer would be the man for that.
Actually I was rather impressed with the final look of Topher as Brock. He has obviously put some weight on. Also I heard the Venom will be bulky from reports and will preserve the comic look.

Furthermore, while Topher may not look like Brock, in the trailer he certainly captured the facial expressions and manurisms I associate with the character from the comic.

[Mr. Magoo]

Raimi's stupid "mirror image" route is anything but accurate. Instead of getting a massive, brooding Brock, we get a whiny, teenager style envy story. The story vaguely resembles Brock origin and Topher doesn't resemble Brock's essential physicality in the slightest.

I hope--with all my heart--that a director comes along someday and gives Venom his just due. A guy like Goyer would be the man for that.

The fact that you think Goyer is a better filmmaker than Raimi is hilarious.

Spider-Man 2.

Blade: Trinity.

End of discussion.

How is Eddie Brock more "brooding" in the comics than he is in the movies? What are you basing that on? He was ALWAYS jealous of Peter Parker. It looks to be almost the exact same story in the movie except he's not all huge and musclebound. Big frickin' deal.

[Scar Predator]

The fact that you think Goyer is a better filmmaker than Raimi is hilarious.

Spider-Man 2.

Blade: Trinity.

End of discussion.

How is Eddie Brock more "brooding" in the comics than he is in the movies? What are you basing that on? He was ALWAYS jealous of Peter Parker. It looks to be almost the exact same story in the movie except he's not all huge and musclebound. Big frickin' deal.

He's not a better director but he's a great writer and could make a solid script. However, as a director at least Goyer would stay true to the comic book fans. He would have taken one look at Twig boy Grace and shown him the door.
Moreover, Venom's brooding look is essential to the character. Topher looks like a junior high kid and simply can't pull this off. Also, Brock's muscle mass is part of what makes him so dangerous. His body was formed from years of obsession with destroying Spider-man. Venom's stroy cannot be properly told without it.

[CConn]

Raimi's stupid "mirror image" route is anything but accurate. Instead of getting a massive, brooding Brock, we get a whiny, teenager style envy story. The story vaguely resembles Brock origin and Topher doesn't resemble Brock's essential physicality in the slightest.Why exactly is Brock's physicality so important to his character? I mean, I've never really seen his size used as a plot point in anything, or really anything other than a visual matter. Brock's story has always been about faith, about hating Peter Parker, and about turning into this ferocious...thing that is Venom. And, from what blurry footage we've seen, Venom looks pretty ferocious to me.
I hope--with all my heart--that a director comes along someday and gives Venom his just due. A guy like Goyer would be the man for that.You would accept ridiculous things like a "Spider-Planet" - not to mention Goyer's poor track record as a director - simply to have a "buff" Brock?

[Scar Predator]

Why exactly is Brock's physicality so important to his character? I mean, I've never really seen his size used as a plot point in anything, or really anything other than a visual matter.

Try Spider-man 300. Try the Venom mini series. BTW, how many times has Spidey said that Venom is his most feared enemy because he has the same abilites but more muscle?!!



Brock's story has always been about faith, about hating Peter Parker, and about turning into this ferocious...thing that is Venom. And, from what blurry footage we've seen, Venom looks pretty ferocious to me.
You would accept ridiculous things like a "Spider-Planet" - not to mention Goyer's poor track record as a director - simply to have a "buff" Brock?

The footage shows a decent but not nearly big enough Venom and a watered down band camp version of Eddie Brock. At least Goyer would take the character seriously and cater to the comic book purists like in Batman Begins.

[kaijunexus]

He's not a better director but he's a great writer and could make a solid script. However, as a director at least Goyer would stay true to the comic book fans. He would have taken one look at Twig boy Grace and shown him the door.

Hannibal King, dude. Hannibal King.

Like...have you actually seen any of Goyer's films? lmao...

Moreover, Venom's brooding look is essential to the character. Topher looks like a junior high kid and simply can't pull this off. Also, Brock's muscle mass is part of what makes him so dangerous. His body was formed from years of obsession with destroying Spider-man. Venom's stroy cannot be properly told without it.

You obviously haven't seen the very early renditions of Brock, pre-Venom. He basically looked like Peter. And frankly, this whole "Brock's muscles = Venom" routine your throwing together has no basis. You need to accept defeat in this conversation before you embarass yourself further.

[Scar Predator]

Hannibal King, dude. Hannibal King.

Like...have you actually seen any of Goyer's films? lmao...

Yes. He is a great writer. See Blade 2 and Batman Begins.


You obviously haven't seen the very early renditions of Brock, pre-Venom. He basically looked like Peter. And frankly, this whole "Brock's muscles = Venom" routine your throwing together has no basis. You need to accept defeat in this conversation before you embarass yourself further.

Yes I have seen them and the evolution of Brock's body tells the tale in an instant without a word. He trained hardcore style for years in hole- of an -apartment for one reason: kill the Spider. Those are the facts. The character deserves a better script and better actor.

[CConn]

The footage shows a decent but not nearly big enough Venom and a watered down band camp version of Eddie Brock.How is "I come to you today. Humbled and humiliated to ask; Kill Peter Parker" at all band camp?

And you still haven't answered my question of why Brock's physicality is such an important feature of his character.

[Scar Predator]

How is "I come to you today. Humbled and humiliated to ask; Kill Peter Parker" at all band camp?

And you still haven't answered my question of why Brock's physicality is such an important feature of his character.

Topher has a goofy ,band camp look that doesn't change with his expressions. The script can't change his natural ( lack of ) screen prescence.
Brock's physicality is part of the basis for Venom's character. The symbiote enhances his emotions. It drives him to new peaks of rage that was funneled into his weightlifting. Morever, it has been said in the Venom minis that in the better shape Brock is in, the healthier the symbiote is. It feeds on Brock's adrenaline. Do you need more proof?!!

[kaijunexus]

Yes. He is a great writer. See Blade 2 and Batman Begins.

Because he definitely didn't take any liberties with Blade...

And just for the record, I'm not bashing Goyer. Most of his stuff is good (often bordering on great). However, you praise him like a god. The man's talents are truly far from godly. This whole Venom nonsense is proof enough of that.

Yes I have seen them and the evolution of Brock's body tells the tale in an instant without a word. He trained hardcore style for years in hole- of an -apartment for one reason: kill the Spider. Those are the facts. The character deserves a better script and better actor.

You know what? You're right. Raimi's so dumb. We should start the movie with skinny Brock, have Pete piss him off, and then skip ahead several years to meet the new, pumped-up, and rage-filled Eddie so he can become Venom. That's an awesome idea. We can even throw in a five-minute...no, TEN-MINUTE 80's style montage of Brock lifting weights to Eye of the Tiger! YEAH! YAY CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!

Holy god am I glad you'll never be anywhere near a movie script. lmao @ you.

[Scar Predator]

[/color][/size]Because he definitely didn't take any liberties with Blade...


He made Blade darker which was more like the current incarnation rather than the shaft style 70s Blade. He didn't water the character down because Joe Schmo can't relate to a powerlifter.

[size=3][color=red]


You know what? You're right. Raimi's so dumb. We should start the movie with skinny Brock, have Pete piss him off, and then skip ahead several years to meet the new, pumped-up, and rage-filled Eddie so he can become Venom. That's an awesome idea.

Holy god am I glad you'll never be anywhere near a movie script. lmao @ you.

If they would have used Topher to play a 17 year old Brock ( this is about the age Topher looks ) in a flashback sequence, that would have been ok. Then, they could have had a talented AND physically imposing actor play the adult Brock for the bulk of the film. Goyer would have written it that way, I bet.

[kaijunexus]

Whatever, dude. All that matters is that I'm right and your wrong. In fact, basically everyone else has accepted, even embraced Topher as the film version of Brock because they understand why the choice was made.

But I guess you can just forgo seeing Spider-Man 3 in favor of fantacizing about a failed script that rejects all source material of the character...a script that even the writer himself abandoned. Yeah. You should do that.

[Scar Predator]

Whatever, dude. All that matters is that I'm right and your wrong. In fact, basically everyone else has accepted, even embraced Topher as the film version of Brock because they understand why the choice was made.

But I guess you can just forgo seeing Spider-Man 3 in favor of fantacizing about a failed script that rejects all source material of the character...a script that even the writer himself abandoned. Yeah. You should do that.

This is all subjective so right/wrong is in the eye of the beholder. However, I will again state that I'm a purist and though Goyer's script would have been lacking in some elements, he would have been more on target with the essence of the Venom character. Raimi is waaaaaay off.

Morever, there are plenty of Spidey fans ( more accurately , Venom fans ) who will never accept Blowpher as Venom. We'll see Spidey 3 in spite of Twig boy and hope it spawns interest in bringing a true version of Venom to the big screen.

[Mr. Magoo]

How would he have been more accurate with Venom? Spider-Man wouldn't have even been in the movie! So he may have made him all big like a weightlifter, but this so-called important reason why he's big (to kill the spider) wouldn't exist.

[gvcool2]

Yes I have seen them and the evolution of Brock's body tells the tale in an instant without a word. He trained hardcore style for years in hole- of an -apartment for one reason: kill the Spider. Those are the facts. The character deserves a better script and better actor.

what the hell? you've read the script?! tell me about it?, or are you truly talented enough to judge the script based on like 12 words at most

[Movies205]

I won't mind a Venom spin-off at all....After Spiderman 3... if that movie really is the last Spidey movie for a while. Though...that's only if Brock or Venom even survives Spidey 3

Personally Venom striving to do good was the most interesting part of the Venom mythos, in a world full of heros where could Venom possibly fit in, it'd make for a lovely tragic story and Venom eventually being forced back to the dark side, again part of that is my own take on it.

[gvcool2]

Personally Venom striving to do good was the most interesting part of the Venom mythos, in a world full of heros where could Venom possibly fit in, it'd make for a lovely tragic story and Venom eventually being forced back to the dark side, again part of that is my own take on it.

thats a good plot for a venom movie, but studios would find it hard to produce a movie where the hero is essentially evil

[Movies205]

thats a good plot for a venom movie, but studios would find it hard to produce a movie where the hero is essentially evil

Well not suppose much evil, just misunderstood, I mean it's an interesting story to handle, the person who was blessed with powers but didn't know how to use them properly, I think I've seen that in one form or another but it still be cool, perhaps I'll write a story like that one of these days, sans Venom, I doubt they'd make anything that cool, it'd probably be something lame and shallow meant for a quick buck.

[Scar Predator]

what the hell? you've read the script?! tell me about it?, or are you truly talented enough to judge the script based on like 12 words at most

I don't know the whole script, of course. After reading dozens of interviews with Raimi, I can safely say I know what the basis for the movie verison of Eddie Brock/Venom will be. It's no secret and it's nothing like it should be.

[DACrowe]

Well the Venom character in the movie is being portrayed pretty spot on, and I'm not talking physicality here. At least Brock and his motivations seem to be realtively accurate as does the origin and Venom seems to look good in his big screen glory (even if it probably adds up to 15 minutes). My only concern is that he doesn't kidnap someone or at least do more than scare them. The whole kidnapping a loved one or endangering innocence is boring now and out of character from the comics. But him maybe just scaring the **** out of MJ to psyche Peter about before battle would be pretty awesome as long as he didn't harm her or take her prisoner or anything.

But I digress if you want Goyer to do a Venom movie than you go ahead because there is no arguing with someone who thinks Goyer will do anything justice. Goyer was the weak link in BB and has a much diminshed presence in The Dark Knight thankfully and Blade II was so good because of the director. Blade Trinity gave us raw unfiltered Goyer, and trust me, it is not pretty.

[Scar Predator]

Well the Venom character in the movie is being portrayed pretty spot on, and I'm not talking physicality here.

You can't seperate Venom from his physicality any more than you can do it to Hulk, Thing, Juggernaught etc...It robs Venom of his initial intensity and psychosis. Goyer would have understood this and at least tried to do the character justice.


But I digress if you want Goyer to do a Venom movie than you go ahead because there is no arguing with someone who thinks Goyer will do anything justice. Goyer was the weak link in BB and has a much diminshed presence in The Dark Knight thankfully and Blade II was so good because of the director. Blade Trinity gave us raw unfiltered Goyer, and trust me, it is not pretty.

Goyer was great in BB and Trinity was a very good flick, it just wasn't up to the high standards set by the first two movies.

[Arcturus]

I'm glad Goyer never made a Venom movie, this here is an old article;

http://www.comics2film.com/ProjectFrame.php?f_id=217

Venom belongs in Spider-Man movies, imo.

:sym:

[Scar Predator]

I'm glad Goyer never made a Venom movie, this here is an old article;

http://www.comics2film.com/ProjectFrame.php?f_id=217

Venom belongs in Spider-Man movies, imo.

:sym:

His first appearance should have been in a Spidey movie--looking and acting like the Eddie Brock/Venom from Spidey #300. Goyer would have been handicapped by not having the Parker/Sin-Eater story with which to work but he might have made something dark, violent and cool like he did w/ Blade.

[cryptic name]

Personally Venom striving to do good was the most interesting part of the Venom mythos, in a world full of heros where could Venom possibly fit in, it'd make for a lovely tragic story and Venom eventually being forced back to the dark side, again part of that is my own take on it.

sounds a little like Frankenstein. cool

[CConn]

Topher has a goofy ,band camp look that doesn't change with his expressions. The script can't change his natural ( lack of ) screen prescence.We were talking about lines while Topher wasn't even on-screen. :confused:
Brock's physicality is part of the basis for Venom's character. The symbiote enhances his emotions. It drives him to new peaks of rage that was funneled into his weightlifting. Morever, it has been said in the Venom minis that in the better shape Brock is in, the healthier the symbiote is. It feeds on Brock's adrenaline. Do you need more proof?!!That's rather technical and unimportant. I mean, to me at least, that's the same as Spidey's webshooters. Sure, in the comics Spidey creates them himself, and shows (at least a bit) about Peter Parker's character and intelligence, but the movies were hardly hurt (IMO, at least) by leaving it out.

[Scar Predator]

We were talking about lines while Topher wasn't even on-screen. :confused:
That's rather technical and unimportant. I mean, to me at least, that's the same as Spidey's webshooters. Sure, in the comics Spidey creates them himself, and shows (at least a bit) about Peter Parker's character and intelligence, but the movies were hardly hurt (IMO, at least) by leaving it out.

I agree with you on the webshooters. It may seem like a small change but PP making the shooters at such a young age showed his resourceful nature in the comics.
I have to disagree on the symbiote. The symbiote merged with Eddie because it shared Eddie's loathing of Spidey. The loathing was nursed and enhanced by years of hyperfocused training that would have lead to Eddie being both the emotional AND physical host that the symbiote needed. That's not minor. As I've said before, there are characters that can't be seperated from their physicality. Venom falls in that category.

[Retroman]

I'm glad Goyer never made a Venom movie, this here is an old article;

http://www.comics2film.com/ProjectFrame.php?f_id=217

Venom belongs in Spider-Man movies, imo.

:sym:
Agreed. :up:
I had no idea that they were planning to make a Venom spin-off and that Goyer wrote a script for it. At least he's honest that he doesn't like the character.:D

Thanks for the link btw.

[Ceb-Man]

As intersting as a Venom film would be good to see. I am just not very keen on Goyer's script. Venom belongs first in a Spider-Man film, then a spin-off might be nice.

[Silver Sable]

I don't understand this.Was Goyer's script supposed to take after a Spidey film where Venom was in it or he just wanted to make a Venom movie w/o him meeting Spidey?

[Scar Predator]

I don't understand this.Was Goyer's script supposed to take after a Spidey film where Venom was in it or he just wanted to make a Venom movie w/o him meeting Spidey?

No, there was no Spidey connection. There aren't alot of plot details known but the symbiotes were going to make there way to earth and find Brock and Kasady. Venom was going to be the anti-hero of the flick. Venom4life posted a link in this thread to an article with a brief description of the script.
It certainly wouldn't have been the best way to introduce Venom to the big screen. Goyer is creative and is great at writing dark comic book characters but it still wouldn't have been the same. I wasn't longing for this film to happen until Raimi cast Jack Skellington as Venom in SM3. It seems like the Lethal Protector is screwed until someone in the future wants to give him his due. Someday, I hope.

[Silver Sable]

I see.Thanks