Red Hood? [Archive] - The SuperHeroHype Forums

microchip_emozi

08-02-2006, 02:48 AM

Yes, it could be cool :eek:

By the way they could use "Batman: The Killing Joke" (by Alan Moore) because seems to be more on the story because in "Under the Hood" Robin is with Batman when Joker became Himself!!!

I'm really excited about the Joker's backstory because Nolan did a great work with Bruce's backstory!!! :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/Batman_UnderTheHood.jpg/225px-Batman_UnderTheHood.jpg
(the firts Hood)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d7/RH0002.jpg/180px-RH0002.jpg
(the second)

I've found this great article on wikipedia :spidey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hood

Edit: ops..Majik1387 found it before :P

Cinemaman

08-02-2006, 02:50 AM

Well, as for me, I liked TKJ, but I dont want to see Red Hood, because it would be a bit strange to see him in Nolan's movie.

Cinemaman

08-02-2006, 02:54 AM

So people, how will they show his backstory? Will they use flashbacks?

I think flashback is the best way how to tell his story.

NOFX

08-02-2006, 02:58 AM

Nah I dont think sooo, remember guys the story will evolve around Batman/Bruce wayne! Not the joker.

E-Mack

08-02-2006, 03:02 AM

Eh, I prefer if they just referred to his chemical accident. Have him be some random bad-guy or whatever, but no Red Hood. Or at least the one we are used to seeing. I always thought he looked retarded. It's a freakin' Red bucket he's wearing for gods sake.

All you realism-freaks tell me how to explain that one. And you can forget about bringing up that double-sided mirror thingy he uses to see. That ain't enough. :p

Retroman

08-02-2006, 03:06 AM

By all means bring on the Red Hood as long as they can come up with a a good costume.:up:

If they don't use it go with the chemical accident perhaps caused by the terror in the narrows.

Two-Face

08-02-2006, 05:51 AM

Nah I dont think sooo, remember guys the story will evolve around Batman/Bruce wayne! Not the joker.

I llike if Nolan did like Ra's screentime. I don't want Batman has a suporting character to his villains.

hitpehoaos

08-02-2006, 06:45 AM

the red hood thing will look wierd on film. I dont really know how they are gonna do the jokers back story to follow the same realistic tones of the first movie. Frankly falling in a vat of chemicals wouldnt make your hair green, face white and lips really red

Ronny Shade

08-02-2006, 07:57 AM

The red hood is a very very good way to create a mystery around the origin of the Joker. Since we will be getting an origin, I think the red hood story will leave the largest percent of people in the dark, mainly because not many people know the connection between red hood (or have even heard of the red hood for that matter) and the Joker.

BatFitz

08-02-2006, 07:57 AM

Well chemicals can bleach your face though. And the red lipstick and green hair is added by himself...to give him the appearance of being clown-like...I could be wrong but that's what I've been going with for a long time

Avernus

08-02-2006, 08:08 AM

I think the red hood thing would be genius....it sounds similar to what Nolan did with scarecrow in BB....

instead of making the joker a clown....even though he can make him look disfigured....the red hood angle would be genius IMO..

Spider-Fan83

08-02-2006, 08:23 AM

edited: heres a comic panel of the red hood
http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2004/jan7/jokerrevealed.jpg

microchip_emozi

08-02-2006, 08:23 AM

By all means bring on the Red Hood as long as they can come up with a a good costume.:up:

If they don't use it go with the chemical accident perhaps caused by the terror in the narrows.

"Red Hood" story is directly connected to the chemical accident:

the man later known as the Joker was a master criminal going by the name of the Red Hood (his costume consisted of a large domed red helmet and a red cape.) While attempting to rob a chemical plant, his men were dispatched and then he was suddenly surrounded on a catwalk by Batman and Robin. Left with no alternatives, he dove into a catch basin for the chemicals and swam to freedom, surviving because of a special breathing aparatus built into the helmet. The toxins in the vat permanently and grotesquely disfigured him, however, turning his hair green, his skin white and his lips red. Upon discovering this, he went insane and became the Joker.

Spider-Fan83

08-02-2006, 08:32 AM

What you wrote contradicts what the comic panel shows.
sure if you cut up what I wrote and not take it for its full contact
I meant, the scene from the batman movie, he fell a big chemical bath, were in the comic panel, I posted he drove in to a steam of chemical waste, and my point was that, it wasn't the chemical alone that disfigured him, but, the coloring came from the shemical fusion of the colors from the cards

Rynan

08-02-2006, 08:33 AM

I was thinking about this topic myself. I don't want them to go too much into it. They just make a nod to it, maybe having pre-Joker where a red ski mask.
http://www.varsitytheatre.org/store/img/cache/a/c/5/ac5b9b7ed3bed5107e55778e7ec8c815-83-200x200.gif

But, as I said, I don't want them to go much into it. Make it quick, so we can get on to the rest of the movie.

Katsuro

08-02-2006, 08:42 AM

sure if you cut up what I wrote and not take it for its full contact
I meant, the scene from the batman movie, he fell a big chemical bath, were in the comic panel, I posted he drove in to a steam of chemical waste, and my point was that, it wasn't the chemical alone that disfigured him, but, the coloring came from the fusion of the colors for the cards

It didn't say that anywhere in the comic panel you posted. read it again.

Rynan

08-02-2006, 08:44 AM

I read the full thing, you still contradicted the panel.

Where does it say that the cards gave him the coloring of the skin, hair and lips?

Maybe he means the chemical dyes...

Ronny Shade

08-02-2006, 08:45 AM

It's impossible for the same chemicals to wash over somebody and change the skin lips and hair all different colors. kthanxbye

Katsuro

08-02-2006, 08:50 AM

It's impossible for the same chemicals to wash over somebody and change the skin lips and hair all different colors. kthanxbye

Well... i think the lips could be lipstick and that wouldn't be too much of a problem. then we'd only have to worry about it changing his skin one color, and his hair another color. I dont think that's too farfetched, is it?

either way, this is why i dont want an origin. Joker should show up with no explanation as to why he looks the way he does, save for possibly him telling it but then admiting he's not entirely sure it's the truth.

Ronny Shade

08-02-2006, 08:53 AM

Well... i think the lips could be lipstick and that wouldn't be too much of a problem. then we'd only have to worry about it changing his skin one color, and his hair another color. I dont think that's too farfetched, is it?

either way, this is why i dont want an origin. Joker should show up with no explanation as to why he looks the way he does, save for possibly him telling it but then admiting he's not entirely sure it's the truth.
No, I agree. The chemicals bleach his skin. He manually adds the lipstick and hair dye.

not far fetched at all.

Rynan

08-02-2006, 08:56 AM

*sigh* For this I would have to say...

LOGIC

Out This:
http://www.loewen-window-centre.com/double-hung.jpg

Ronny Shade

08-02-2006, 08:58 AM

there's no reason to throw out logic.

If you're going to throw him in a pit of chemicals, have it bleach his skin.

Then have him add hair dye and lipstick

easy!

Spider-Fan83

08-02-2006, 09:00 AM

I read the full thing, you still contradicted the panel.

Where does it say that the cards gave him the coloring of the skin, hair and lips?
it was implied, from the fact that it is a card company, that the waste would have a mixture of card coloring paints, which in the (89) movie version, they took that concept to him have the card on him when he fell in the waste, in the movie you see him reaching out of the chemicals and the card floating up. I am, wasn't make an argumentative statement
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8606/jokercardpanelnl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

NinjaTurtleFan

08-02-2006, 09:56 AM

In Batman: The Killing Joke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_The_Killing_Joke), Alan Moore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore) wrote an alternate possible origin of the Joker, and thus the Red Hood; the Joker is a former chemical technician, now a struggling stand-up comedian with a pregnant wife. Approached by the Red Hood gang to lead a raid of his former workplace, the Ace Chemical plant, he accepts, in order to make enough money to start a better life for his family. The gang gives him the costume of the Red Hood, which has been worn by many men like the Joker before - this way, the gang are able to falsely identify the Red Hood as their leader on all the crimes they perform, with the police unaware that a different dupe is behind the hood every time. The day of the proposed robbery, however, police inform him that his wife died in a freak accident. He attempts to back out of the robbery ("There's no point now") but the gang tell him if he backs out now, they will kill him. During the robbery, the plant's security men spot the intruders and shoot the other criminals dead. The Joker tries to flee, but Batman appears and corners him on the plant's catwalk. Terrified, he believes Batman to be a demon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon) sent from Hell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell) to punish him and leaps off the catwalk into the chemical basin to escape. From there on, this origin is largely identical to the original.

^ I want this! It'd make sense too because Joker could be doing the job at the time when Scarecrow releases his fear serum on Gotham. Joker becomes disoriented and delusional, Batman gets the call from Gordon that there is a robbery going on, and finds Joker there. Then, Joker under the fear serum sees Batman thinking he is the demon bat from "Batman Begins" and leaps into the vat of chemicals and then you see flashbacks of how he became to be.

They got to go the Alan Moore way because if Joker is just some Arkyum inmate or is just some guy with no explanation of why he has green skin, red lips, and bleached skin than I'm sorry but I won't be happy.

Cinemaman

08-02-2006, 10:05 AM

So we will see just flashback, because if Gordon gives Batman this card, it means that Joker has alreavy become Joker.

NinjaTurtleFan

08-02-2006, 10:05 AM

That wouldn't work with the ending from Begins. Gordon gives the Joker card to Batman before Batman even knows who the Joker is or his backstory.

But he doesn't know Joker is the man behind the card. Batman could just show up there going to prevent a robbery until later he finds out the guy he could've saved from falling into the chemicals is actually the man Gordon wanted him to look for.

I see it working.

Cinemaman

08-02-2006, 10:09 AM

But he doesn't know Joker is the man behind the card. Batman could just show up there going to prevent a robbery until later he finds out the guy he could've saved from falling into the chemicals is actually the man Gordon wanted him to look for.

I see it working.

No, it wont work well.

The Joker becomes Joker, after falling in the chemicles. But in BB, they show the card. So Joker couldn't be Joker (with his cards), if Gordon didn't show that card.

microchip_emozi

08-02-2006, 10:15 AM

^ I want this! It'd make sense too because Joker could be doing the job at the time when Scarecrow releases his fear serum on Gotham. Joker becomes disoriented and delusional, Batman gets the call from Gordon that there is a robbery going on, and finds Joker there. Then, Joker under the fear serum sees Batman thinking he is the demon bat from "Batman Begins" and leaps into the vat of chemicals and then you see flashbacks of how he became to be.

This one could be good!
:up:

NinjaTurtleFan

08-02-2006, 10:16 AM

No, it wont work well.

The Joker becomes Joker, after falling in the chemicles. But in BB, they show the card. So Joker couldn't be Joker (with his cards), if Gordon didn't show that card.

But if you pay attention to the old Burton films, he is seen playing with a deck of cards. I mean why not set it up where Joker is a big gambler who makes alot of foolhardy risks and have the whole flashback to his past where he lived in a broken home, got abused, had kids tease him, etc.

Give the man humanity before making him into a monster.

Cinemaman

08-02-2006, 10:22 AM

But if you pay attention to the old Burton films, he is seen playing with a deck of cards. I mean why not set it up where Joker is a big gambler who makes alot of foolhardy risks and have the whole flashback to his past where he lived in a broken home, got abused, had kids tease him, etc.

Give the man humanity before making him into a monster.

Actually, Gordon says some details about his bank robberies, so he have already turned into the Joker.

Besides, Nolan said that he makes his own vision on this franchise, so i doubt he will do what Burton did.

NOFX

08-02-2006, 11:45 AM

Red Hood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hood)
I've just read, Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs, The Long Halloween, and Batman Year one on that site!!! :up: Its going to be intersting what kinds of stories Nolan will use in the movie.:o Now when someone says do you read comics I can finally say yes:o

BmAaTn3625

08-02-2006, 12:50 PM

I could see the Joker's backstory showing him as a Mob Lt. for Rupert Thorne or some other mob cheif. He has been doing the dirty work for the mob boss in question for a few weeks leading up to the end of Begins. He has come to enjoy what he does and has earned the nickname Lucas "The Joker" Carlson for the Joker cards he leaves at his crimes scenes. He finally gets a big job with a big payout for him and it could possibly increase his status in the Mob circles. He takes a few of his men to the job which is taking out the owner of a large local business. Batman has caught wind of this and foils the whole thing. It ends up exposing a great deal of the plans of the mob boss in question which in turn makes the mob boss very angry. The mob boss calls Carlson(the Joker) in for a visit. As Carlson comes into the office of the mob boss, the boss' hench men grab Carlson to the floor. The mob boss proceeds to tell Carlson how his failure has extreme consiquences. He informs Carlson that he had his wife "taken care of" as well as the manner in which "it" was done. The mob boss also orders his men to take care of Carlson. The men take Carlson bound and gagged to a near by chemical plant. They take him up to the top catwalk. They say various things to him and proceed to put a burlap sack over his head and push him over the railing. As he tips over, his hand ropes are caught on the railing. He hangs upside down. The one goon walks over and takes a knife out and cuts the rope, sending Carlson down 4 floors down to a chemical vat below. The men proceed to leave. After they do a strange silence falls over inside of the factory. The camera is ground level as it slowly moves toward the vat. All of a sudden there is an eruption from the vat and causes the camera to go black. (Just my thoughts. Just came up with it now so really haven't had time to polish it but I do think personally it could work. As we have heard the Joker acts out against batman and the mob. This is just one way it could be told how and why the Joker dislikes both the mob and Batman. Or he could just be soooo far gone that he doesn't really care. Like I said, just my thoughts.

BmAaTn3625

08-02-2006, 10:30 PM

any thoughts?

Spidey_Zombie

08-02-2006, 11:23 PM

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i282/BatmanBeyonder2/1111joker1111.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i282/BatmanBeyonder2/3333joker3333.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i282/BatmanBeyonder2/4444jokeer44444.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i282/BatmanBeyonder2/5555joker5555.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i282/BatmanBeyonder2/lastjokwe16.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i282/BatmanBeyonder2/joker2222222.jpg

The Fallen

08-02-2006, 11:40 PM

Red Hood would look kinda silly on film. With the red bucket and cape, people would find it silly. I honestly don't think it'll be a facor in The Dark Knight (I love saying that title!)

JSZ

08-02-2006, 11:52 PM

Dude guys who cares if we saw he card already!!

IT CAN STILL BE RED HOOD!

*gasp*

Think about it. Did Gordon name the bad guy? No. He said he has a thing for the theatrical and has taken out a few people. And that he leaves a calling card. THAT IS ALL!

For all we know he MAY INFACT BE the Red Hood and slowly evolve into Joker. We do not know. Come on, can't we be a bit more open minded here? Be more fun in speculation, more possibilities.

On topic...I don't care what they show as long as Joker is done right. God I wanna see Joker on film again.

heypapajinx

08-05-2006, 07:38 AM

I was thinking about this topic myself. I don't want them to go too much into it. They just make a nod to it, maybe having pre-Joker where a red ski mask.
But, as I said, I don't want them to go much into it. Make it quick, so we can get on to the rest of the movie.
i TOTALLY agree with this. since he's already been prefaced as a burglar i think when Batman first encounters he could be wearing a dark red ski mask. true fans would get the reference, but it would still translate to the rest of the audience. yes!! and then his face could be regular clown Joker after the accident, so we never really have to see that it's pretty boy Heath. first a menace then a freak.

Rynan

08-05-2006, 08:19 AM

i TOTALLY agree with this. since he's already been prefaced as a burglar i think when Batman first encounters he could be wearing a dark red ski mask. true fans would get the reference, but it would still translate to the rest of the audience. yes!! and then his face could be regular clown Joker after the accident, so we never really have to see that it's pretty boy Heath. first a menace then a freak.

When compared to the "Killing Joke", I belive Batman 89's and Paul Dini's explanation for his orgin seems more belivable. A sociopath who gets scarred in a chemical accident then snaps and becomes the killer crime clown The Joker. An evil man who becomes more evil.

His Red Hood personia could be like Ted Bundy before he snapped and killed 30 people.

Cinemaman

08-05-2006, 08:31 AM

I liked more B89's explanation, but I dont want him to be crime guy before he turns into Joker.

So I'd prefer TKJ story without Red Hood's stuff.

Agentsands77

08-05-2006, 08:57 AM

Personally, I'm against featuring an origin at all in THE DARK KNIGHT. I'd like subtle hints and speculation, but I'd largely like the Joker's background to remain shrouded in mystery. I want very little idea of who he was before he became the Joker.

I think that ultimately *any* origin that is given the Joker dampens the character's impact, and he's above an origin anyhow. We don't need an origin to understand to the character (in fact, I like it better when he's somewhat inhuman and hard to comprehend - I love the running story in the comics that psychologists can never get into his head).

Metallo22

08-05-2006, 09:32 AM

Red Hood would look kinda silly on film. With the red bucket and cape, people would find it silly. I honestly don't think it'll be a facor in The Dark Knight (I love saying that title!)

It looks too much like Magneto to me. If they go with it, lose the cape and make it a red ski mask.:up:

Carnotaur3

08-05-2006, 09:42 AM

But if you pay attention to the old Burton films, he is seen playing with a deck of cards. I mean why not set it up where Joker is a big gambler who makes alot of foolhardy risks and have the whole flashback to his past where he lived in a broken home, got abused, had kids tease him, etc.

Give the man humanity before making him into a monster.

No, because Gordon already said the guy had a pension for the theatrics just like Batman, so Joker has to already be the joker. It could possibly go back in time with Joker like they did with Bruce Wayne for BB.

NinjaTurtleFan

08-05-2006, 09:52 AM

No, because Gordon already said the guy had a pension for the theatrics just like Batman, so Joker has to already be the joker. It could possibly go back in time with Joker like they did with Bruce Wayne for BB.

So what? Doesn't mean anything, it could just mean he's a burgular that likes to hide a mask and persona---The Red Hood and he's obsessed with leaving a Joker calling card. Nowhere does it mean or try to say he's already The Joker. If that is the case though I'll be pissed, because some explanation must be made.

Burton's "Batman" had the right story down where he became the Joker and went after his former mob boss, the problem was they left out him as The Red Hood, and also made him obssessed with Prince songs. Now, they could reinvent that whole scene where Nicholson's Jack Napier/Joker does swan-dive into the chemical vats, but change some things to make all new.

Cinemaman

08-05-2006, 09:55 AM

So what? Doesn't mean anything, it could just mean he's a burgular that likes to hide a mask and persona---The Red Hood and he's obsessed with leaving a Joker calling card. Nowhere does it mean or try to say he's already The Joker. If that is the case though I'll be pissed, because some explanation must be made.

Burton's "Batman" had the right story down where he became the Joker and went after his former mob boss, the problem was they left out him as The Red Hood, and also made him obssessed with Prince songs. Now, they could reinvent that whole scene where Nicholson's Jack Napier/Joker does swan-dive into the chemical vats, but change some things to make all new.

I think you should let it go, he is right. Most likely we will see just flashbacks.

Also it wasmentioned that there will be backstory of Joker, what means flashback.

Cinemaman

08-05-2006, 09:55 AM

Avernus

08-05-2006, 10:46 AM

I think you should let it go, he is right. Most likely we will see just flashbacks.

Also it wasmentioned that there will be backstory of Joker, what means flashback.

yeah...the flashbacks could consist of red hood.....even Batman wore a black ski mask when he 1st started....this isn't very far fetched..

Cinemaman

08-05-2006, 10:53 AM

cine you do rock

I know, soon the world will meet a new superhero, CINEMAMAN!!! :D :up:

You also do rock!!! :up:

Rynan

08-05-2006, 04:41 PM

I liked more B89's explanation, but I dont want him to be crime guy before he turns into Joker.

So I'd prefer TKJ story without Red Hood's stuff.

Why? A pitiful faliure of a human being just has a "bad day" and becomes Gotham's greatest criminal? I didn't know the "Dark Knight" was going to be a tale about overcoming the odds...

HA HA! But seriously, he has to be. There's no way around it. The Joker had to have been a sociopath in his "Former Life". No one ever goes from "normal" to an insane intelligent killer just after a chemical bath. He had to be wired that way. He had to have devolped with no remorse, no pity, no fear. A sociopath. He just has to.

Cinemaman

08-05-2006, 04:42 PM

Why? A pitiful faliure of a human being just has a "bad day". Bring out the tissues, boys, The "Dark Knight" is gonna tear jerker.

HA HA! But seriously, he has to be. There's no way around it. The Joker had to have been a sociopath in his "Former Life". No one ever goes from "normal" to an insane intelligent killer just after a chemical bath. He had to be wired that way. He had to have devolped with no remorse, no pity, no fear. A sociopath. He just has to.

I won't argue with you and will wait for Nolan's version.

Rynan

08-05-2006, 04:50 PM

I won't argue with you and will wait for Nolan's version.

Fair enough.

But I don't see why there's an origin in the first place.

E-Mack

08-05-2006, 04:54 PM

Why? A pitiful faliure of a human being just has a "bad day" and becomes Gotham's greatest criminal? I didn't know the "Dark Knight" was going to be a tale about overcoming the odds...

HA HA! But seriously, he has to be. There's no way around it. The Joker had to have been a sociopath in his "Former Life". No one ever goes from "normal" to an insane intelligent killer just after a chemical bath. He had to be wired that way. He had to have devolped with no remorse, no pity, no fear. A sociopath. He just has to.
I'd like to think that while he wasn't completely a bad guy, he was just a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. And that chemical bath is what set him over.

It's certainly my belief that most, if not all, serial killers are wired in some degree to be that way from an early age.

Savage

08-05-2006, 04:55 PM

hmm. I'm not sure. In the movies Joker is already does exist. The significant thing about the deal with The Red Hood is that Batman was responsible for the Joker becoming who he is. They'd have to somehow write where inbetween this whole thing came to be. It's a tight fit though and will probably take a little more suspension of disbelief than usual.

I think they'd be better off without it. They can do the whole comedian down on his luck thing, doing a job for Falcone/Crane during Begins and Batman botches it trying to get info and leaving with nothing. That could be why the scene wasn't shown...But this thread is about the Red Hood so I really have no clue.

Avernus

08-05-2006, 06:33 PM

I actually wouldn't mind it because the production team can redesign the red hood you know. It doesn't have to look like a bucket and he doesn't need to have a cape.

exactly....there are few things in that movie portrayed as they were in the comics....and I don't expect Red Hood/Joker to be either....

Agentsands77

08-05-2006, 07:27 PM

I actually wouldn't mind it because the production team can redesign the red hood you know. It doesn't have to look like a bucket and he doesn't need to have a cape.
If they did use any part of the Red Hood costume, I'd actually demand they changed the costume because the costume has always looked incredibly laughable (mostly due to the cape and bucket-like helmet).

Artos

08-05-2006, 07:39 PM

I'd like to think that while he wasn't completely a bad guy, he was just a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. And that chemical bath is what set him over.

It's certainly my belief that most, if not all, serial killers are wired in some degree to be that way from an early age.

After doing a research project on serial killers and anti-social personality disorder (a mental condition where the person has no conscience or remorse for his actions) what would make sense realistically is that the Joker would have had a predisposition (as there are both genetic and enviromental factors that combine to make a serial killer) to anti-social behavior but did not nessicarily act on it. In many cases there is a breaking point, often abuse or neglect, etc. However, in the Joker's case this could be an accident involving chemicals that bleached his skin.

Agentsands77

08-05-2006, 07:43 PM

I've never viewed the Joker as just another serial killer that we could pscyhoanalyze like every other psycho. I've always viewed him like Hannibal Lecter in the sense that he's just beyond diagnosing - he's brilliant and insane, somebody we can't entirely comprehend. I've always somewhat loved the running theme throughout the comics that the doctors at Arkham have no idea what to do with the Joker.

I think that reducing him to just another psycho takes away a lot of his impact as a character. He's more than that - he's an enigma. He's the living embodiment of chaos, a sort of inhuman monster that we can somewhat gain glimpses of his inner workings, but overall don't know what makes him click.

That's why I don't like knowing his origins, or at least conclusively knowing his origins (hints and suggestions would be great). But if we know his origins, we entirely comprehend him, we understand him, and we can essentially take him apart and examine him. He should be something of a mystery to us.

explode7

08-05-2006, 07:48 PM

UM, what does red riding hood have to do with the joker???

Artos

08-05-2006, 07:54 PM

I've never viewed the Joker as just another serial killer that we could pscyhoanalyze like every other psycho. I've always viewed him like Hannibal Lecter in the sense that he's just beyond diagnosing - he's brilliant and insane, somebody we can't entirely comprehend. I've always somewhat loved the running theme throughout the comics that the doctors at Arkham have no idea what to do with the Joker.

I think that reducing him to just another psycho takes away a lot of his impact as a character. He's more than that - he's an enigma. He's the living embodiment of chaos, a sort of inhuman monster that we can somewhat gain glimpses of his inner workings, but overall don't know what makes him click.

That's fair enough. And I agree with you, to a point. But there are some basics that, well I don't want to say standard or anything like that, but do seem to be common in most killers.

Even Lector can be analyzied though maybe not thouroughly. This is a great article about the "facts" if you will behind Hannibal: All about Hannibal Lector - Facts and Fiction (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/lecter/1.html)

We don't have to explain all the details about Joker, but there is a scientific basis behind why he does what he does.

E-Mack

08-05-2006, 08:02 PM

After doing a research project on serial killers and anti-social personality disorder (a mental condition where the person has no conscience or remorse for his actions) what would make sense realistically is that the Joker would have had a predisposition (as there are both genetic and enviromental factors that combine to make a serial killer) to anti-social behavior but did not nessicarily act on it. In many cases there is a breaking point, often abuse or neglect, etc. However, in the Joker's case this could be an accident involving chemicals that bleached his skin.
Very well said. That's what I was trying to say but I couldn't get the right terms out. :o

Nice job. :up:

Agentsands77

08-05-2006, 08:02 PM

That's fair enough. And I agree with you, to a point. But there are some basics that, well I don't want to say standard or anything like that, but do seem to be common in most killers.
But the Joker really isn't a serial killer to begin with, at least in the truest sense of that term. Sure, he's a murderer, but he's a very different breed of criminal than anything that exists in the world as we know it.

Even Lector can be analyzied though maybe not thouroughly. This is a great article about the "facts" if you will behind Hannibal: All about Hannibal Lector - Facts and Fiction (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/lecter/1.html)
Oh, I know. Lecter *can* be somewhat comprehended as to his motives. But he's also enshrouded in mystery all the same. I don't think the Joker's motivations would ever be entirely incomprehensible, but there should be a big mystery about it, which can be partially be achieved by not knowing exactly what made him the way he was.

Things like THE KILLING JOKE take it all away and explain everything. I mean, I'm fine with us knowing that the Joker's appearance was created by chemical scarring, but knowing what events created his mental state? Nah.

We don't have to explain all the details about Joker, but there is a scientific basis behind why he does what he does.
Yeah, but part of the running commentary in the comics is that science only gets so far with the Joker, and at a certain point, they're left wondering whether he's actually insane (see the story "Case Study" from BATMAN: BLACK AND WHITE) or something else entirely (the super-sanity theory from ARKHAM ASYLUM).

Anita18

08-05-2006, 09:03 PM

After doing a research project on serial killers and anti-social personality disorder (a mental condition where the person has no conscience or remorse for his actions) what would make sense realistically is that the Joker would have had a predisposition (as there are both genetic and enviromental factors that combine to make a serial killer) to anti-social behavior but did not nessicarily act on it. In many cases there is a breaking point, often abuse or neglect, etc. However, in the Joker's case this could be an accident involving chemicals that bleached his skin.
I definitely agree with your post, but I'm also intrigued at the prospect of AKJ's origins of the Joker. I think people are more frightened by a book/movie if they realize that it could happen to anyone, and the prospect of tipping over the edge because of one bad day is certainly part of that.

Although, I suppose that Two-Face's origins would take care of that aspect as well...Hmmm...

heypapajinx

08-05-2006, 11:50 PM

cryptic name

08-06-2006, 01:15 AM

i don't want an in depth origin for the joker, hell, even he doesn't really know the details of his past. the killing joke was just one possibility. personally i think any attempt to give reasons as to why he is the way he is will make him overly sympathetic. i don't want him to have an excuse, like patrick bateman in american psycho, he shouldn't have a reason to do the things he does other than he thinks it's funny. that's why he's such a great villain for batman, he represents true anarchy and the random nature of crime.

Cinemaman

08-06-2006, 09:00 AM

Lord Blackbolt

08-06-2006, 09:25 AM

Cinemaman

08-06-2006, 09:31 AM

I really hope Scarecrow is at least caught in this movie. I hate that he's still out there. And I don't want to see him team up with Joker. I'd love if the movie opened with Batman capturing the Scarecrow

:eek: :up:

That would be excellent, but again I doubt Nolan will use him :(

I can see that openiong scene with short fight between Batman and him.

But most likely we will see some thief from Arkham trying to escape from Batman.

Lord Blackbolt

08-06-2006, 09:40 AM

Cinemaman

08-06-2006, 09:42 AM

Well...it's not like you'd even need the original actor to return as Scarecrow...cause I think the mask is now fused to his face? I think I remember the actor saying he might return though for a sequel???

Yeah I know, but you didn't understand me right. I meant that Nolan could not use Scarecrow again.

But anyway, I hope he will.

E-Mack

08-06-2006, 09:48 AM

Well...it's not like you'd even need the original actor to return as Scarecrow...cause I think the mask is now fused to his face? I think I remember the actor saying he might return though for a sequel???
What? Since when did the mask permanently stay on his face?

:confused:

Avernus

08-06-2006, 01:56 PM

What? Since when did the mask permanently stay on his face?

:confused:

maybe when Rachel tasered him in the face?....that could be an angle...

E-Mack

08-06-2006, 02:41 PM

That'd be a weird explanation, I don't see how that's possible.

Plus the guy would be dead in like a week if he couldn't eat with his mouth. There goes that idea. :o

Eros

08-06-2006, 04:00 PM

Well...it's not like you'd even need the original actor to return as Scarecrow...cause I think the mask is now fused to his face? I think I remember the actor saying he might return though for a sequel???

fused to is face? what heck are you talking about?:confused: The mask is NOT fused TO his face becasue RACHEL TEASERED HIM. LOL

Artos

08-06-2006, 09:50 PM

I think people are more frightened by a book/movie if they realize that it could happen to anyone

I think if Joker is played out realistically that fear will still be there. Because a serial killer is a real thing. It's not like a giant half-man half-bat or a scientist who has to keep his body temperature below 0 degrees. Sure there are elements of the Joker that are a bit out there, but then again the same could be said about Batman.

I have faith in Nolan that he will deliver a Joker that will be true to character but at the same time grounded in reality.