The Official Batman Comic Thread

[Nightwing]

Like the "Detective Comics thread" I created one for just the "Batman" book. That way both are seperate and evade confusion. This is also the thread to discuss Morrison's new arc "Batman and Son".

What are your thoughts on it thus far?

[The Spirit]

Thankyou, for making this thread Batman!

This was a great start to Morrison's run. It had everything. Even Bono (any one else catch that?). And if this truely is the end of The Joker, I've always thought he should die at the hands of a cop who has had enough. With this and Dini's wonderful first issue of Detective Comics, this may be the best time to be a Batman fan in a long time.

Great ish.

[The Batman]

Jokers Not Dead. I doubt they'd kill him like that.

[Mister J]

The Joker will be back and sooner than later, methinks. No way he goes out like that.

I caught the Bono thing on a second read. Funny, especially with the all the monitors ala ZooTV. :D

The ninja Man-Bats at the end were kinda creepy, but I think this arc is gonna be really good. I like the duality in the title, as 'son' is applicable to both Tim and (who appears to be) Ibn.

[Joker]

seeing as they clearly said Joker was alive in the issue, I really doubt he's dead...nothing much really happened this issue, but it was very well written, and I'm betting it really picks up next issue

[The Batman]

Morrison described the next issue as 22 pages of batman fighting ninja man bats.

[Nightwing]

Death is rarely forever in comics anyway, and I really doubt that the Joker will be killed off forever. Assuming that is even what Morrison is doing. The real deal is that they always comes back.

I think it would be pretty hard to forever kill the Joker off. Post-COIE he became much more than just another one of Batman's kooky villians. He went from being a zany prankster to a truly frightening, completely insane and unpredictable stone cold killer - even more lethal than when he was first written back in the day.

The upshot of this, as I see it, is that he became Batman's true nemesis. Ra's and Bane might appear to be Batman's opposite numbers in that they are very much LIKE Batman but on the opposite side of the fence. But the Joker, in his modern incarnation, he is everything Batman is not. Bane and especially Ra's operate with a kind of sense of honor, as twisted as it might be. They function within a set of rules they define for themselves and ulimately (like Batman) appear to have lines they will not or cannot cross.

The Joker, however, has none of these things. Batman has precious few lines he won't cross, but he has them. The Joker has no lines, appears to have no motive, no reasons for doing what he does. To taunt Batman? Why? Because he enjoys killing? Perhaps, but why dress it up in the garish clown scenario? The only person who understands why the Joker does what he does, is the Joker himself. And he might not even know. Never forget that line in the Killing Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I have to have a past, I prefer it to be a multiple choice."

If Batman is a respresentation of the struggle of order against chaos, the Joker is like the Norse god Loki. Chaos personified. He might sometimes actually BE funny. He says a couple of good ones in the Killing Joke. Or he is just terrifying like in DKR, but at the end of the day he isn't like Riddler, leaving clues for Batman to follow. Some will argue that the silver age Joker was testing Batman's intellect by giving him clues, but that verison of the Joker wasn't dangerous. Testing Batman's mind didn't make the Joker Batman's real rival. It's the utter, lethal and complete mahem that he inflicts.

Once you add the personal grief the Joker has unleashed on Batman - murdering Gordon's wife, murdering Jason Todd, shooting Barbara, etc, you have a character that is linked forever, perhaps in a sick way, to Batman. And their relationship appears to be the most fatal kind. It is often implied they are fated, at some point, to destroy each other. Like Holmes and Moriarty they are doomed to go over the falls together. (That is why I always thought Miller got the Joker bang on in DKR..without his "other half" the Joker falls into a near catatonic state, only to come back to life on the heels of Batman's return).

Any "new" Joker will simply not be this sort of fundamental opposite to Batman. If, and lets face it at this point it is a big IF, Morrison is creating some kind of new Joker, the challenge will be to create a different kind of Joker. Whatever form this character takes, it won't take the same kind of toll out of Batman that the "classic" Joker does. He might be interesting to read, if Morrison is doing it then you know it will at least be unique, but it won't tap into the same kind of twisted and fatal Rota Fortuna that the "real" Joker and Batman are locked in. If it did, it wouldn't be a "new" Joker.

Ultimately, I think it will be very hard for a "new" Joker to be anywhere near as compelling. In one of the Batman documentaries on the Tim Burton Batman DVDs Kevin Smith put it best, IMO. He said that like Batman, the Joker begins with some kind of devastating tragedy. But where Batman dedicates himself to trying to impose order so no one else has to suffer like he did, the Joker has decided to impose chaos so that EVERYONE suffers like he has.

It's going to be pretty hard to top that, and that is why even if the Joker is "killed", he'll be back.

[Joker]

there's also the fact that ever time they've killed Joker off, he's came back. Hell, they killed him at the end of his first appearance even, and he came back 4 or 5 issues later. He always finds a way to cheat death, some way or another. But like I said, they stated clearly in the issue as they were taking him away that he was still alive.

[SpideyInATree]

This thread was in much need of creation. :up:

My favorite part of Morrison and Kubert's run so far has been Bruce Wayne getting back into his millionaire playboy routine. And, basically, how he kind of forgot how to do it since he's been focused on being Batman the bad ass for quite a while. It was awesome how Alfred had to help him out, heh.

And the end of the issue leaves a lot of question marks. Morrison has set it up, now its time to start knocking them down.

[Darthphere]

It was an alright issue, average set-up for the rest of the arc. Morrison has a lot of ideas out there, some really out there but I hope he does a good job. Kubert (I dont care which one) art was good.

[Orko Is King]

Not too much action, but this was a nice set-up issue. I haven't read much GM, but what I have read, I really enjoyed. AK's art was really nice as well. It seems a bit smoother and tighter than his stuff on Ult. X-Men. Overall, this is a great time to be reading Batman comics.

[CConn]

I absolutely loved the first issue - which, honestly, surprised me slightly as I didn't think a story involving Batman with a son would feel as...classic as that issue felt - but it really did.

And that's what made me enjoy it so much - it really felt like a classic, sorta definitive Batman story. Something I'd see in TAS as much as I would in a comic. The interaction between Batman and Alfred, the re-integration of Bruce Wayne into the story. It really seemed like the set-up to a really good story to come.

[The Batman]

+It felt like the 70's batman....especially with batman not being in gotham. the old stories where batman would be in different countries were always great.

[Bullseye]

As much as I dislike Grant Morrison writing superheroes, however, I do enjoy his writing when he writes Batman. Batman is the only superhero I can imagine Morrison writing.

Death is rarely forever in comics anyway, and I really doubt that the Joker will be killed off forever. Assuming that is even what Morrison is doing. The real deal is that they always comes back.

I think it would be pretty hard to forever kill the Joker off. Post-COIE he became much more than just another one of Batman's kooky villians. He went from being a zany prankster to a truly frightening, completely insane and unpredictable stone cold killer - even more lethal than when he was first written back in the day.

The upshot of this, as I see it, is that he became Batman's true nemesis. Ra's and Bane might appear to be Batman's opposite numbers in that they are very much LIKE Batman but on the opposite side of the fence. But the Joker, in his modern incarnation, he is everything Batman is not. Bane and especially Ra's operate with a kind of sense of honor, as twisted as it might be. They function within a set of rules they define for themselves and ulimately (like Batman) appear to have lines they will not or cannot cross.

The Joker, however, has none of these things. Batman has precious few lines he won't cross, but he has them. The Joker has no lines, appears to have no motive, no reasons for doing what he does. To taunt Batman? Why? Because he enjoys killing? Perhaps, but why dress it up in the garish clown scenario? The only person who understands why the Joker does what he does, is the Joker himself. And he might not even know. Never forget that line in the Killing Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I have to have a past, I prefer it to be a multiple choice."

If Batman is a respresentation of the struggle of order against chaos, the Joker is like the Norse god Loki. Chaos personified. He might sometimes actually BE funny. He says a couple of good ones in the Killing Joke. Or he is just terrifying like in DKR, but at the end of the day he isn't like Riddler, leaving clues for Batman to follow. Some will argue that the silver age Joker was testing Batman's intellect by giving him clues, but that verison of the Joker wasn't dangerous. Testing Batman's mind didn't make the Joker Batman's real rival. It's the utter, lethal and complete mahem that he inflicts.

Once you add the personal grief the Joker has unleashed on Batman - murdering Gordon's wife, murdering Jason Todd, shooting Barbara, etc, you have a character that is linked forever, perhaps in a sick way, to Batman. And their relationship appears to be the most fatal kind. It is often implied they are fated, at some point, to destroy each other. Like Holmes and Moriarty they are doomed to go over the falls together. (That is why I always thought Miller got the Joker bang on in DKR..without his "other half" the Joker falls into a near catatonic state, only to come back to life on the heels of Batman's return).

Any "new" Joker will simply not be this sort of fundamental opposite to Batman. If, and lets face it at this point it is a big IF, Morrison is creating some kind of new Joker, the challenge will be to create a different kind of Joker. Whatever form this character takes, it won't take the same kind of toll out of Batman that the "classic" Joker does. He might be interesting to read, if Morrison is doing it then you know it will at least be unique, but it won't tap into the same kind of twisted and fatal Rota Fortuna that the "real" Joker and Batman are locked in. If it did, it wouldn't be a "new" Joker.

Ultimately, I think it will be very hard for a "new" Joker to be anywhere near as compelling. In one of the Batman documentaries on the Tim Burton Batman DVDs Kevin Smith put it best, IMO. He said that like Batman, the Joker begins with some kind of devastating tragedy. But where Batman dedicates himself to trying to impose order so no one else has to suffer like he did, the Joker has decided to impose chaos so that EVERYONE suffers like he has.

It's going to be pretty hard to top that, and that is why even if the Joker is "killed", he'll be back.

That is one of the most brilliant post of seen written in the Batman comics forum.

[CConn]

It felt like the 70's batman....especially with batman not being in gotham. the old stories where batman would be in different countries were always great.Yeah. I mean, Loeb's great, Miller's good, but whenever it feels like O'Neil or Englesham wrote it, that's when I'm really reminded why Batman's my favorite character.
As much as I dislike Grant Morrison writing superheroes, however, I do enjoy his writing when he writes Batman. Batman is the only superhero I can imagine Morrison writing.Have you read his Animal Man run?

[Darthphere]

I absolutely loved the first issue - which, honestly, surprised me slightly as I didn't think a story involving Batman with a son would feel as...classic as that issue felt - but it really did.


Except nothing involving his "son" has even happened yet.:confused:

[CConn]

Generally speaking, the tone of a story is set from the very beginning. Especially one that only spans four issues.

[SpideyInATree]

Except nothing involving his "son" has even happened yet.:confused:

Well, there kind of was that little boy at the end of the issue watching Bruce Wayne on the camera, pointed right at him and said, "That's my father. What are we going to do now, mama?"

And then gigantic werebats dropped down behind the boy and his "mama".

[Darthphere]

Well, there kind of was that little boy at the end of the issue watching Bruce Wayne on the camera, pointed right at him and said, "That's my father. What are we going to do now, mama?"

And then gigantic werebats dropped down behind the boy and his "mama".


I would hardly call that an event.

[Nightwing]

We'll see much more most likely in part two of the arc. And especially in part three, when Ibn meets Tim for the first time.

[Darthphere]

We'll see much more most likely in part two of the arc. And especially in part three, when Ibn meets Tim for the first time.


Yup, im not hating on the book but its way too early to call it a success considering the kid only showed up in like a page and 3 panels and hasnt interacted with Bruce.

[SpideyInATree]

I would hardly call that an event.

I wouldn't either. But you originally said that "nothing happened involving his son". But that was definitely SOMETHING if you ask me. :)

[Fledermaus]

I'll be glad when we find out the little bastards name. That's the "event" I'm waiting for.

[Darthphere]

I wouldn't either. But you originally said that "nothing happened involving his son". But that was definitely SOMETHING if you ask me. :)


It was hyperbole, but I still stand behind that statement. A couple of pices of dialogue and a splash page arent what id call happenings.

[SpideyInATree]

It was hyperbole, but I still stand behind that statement. A couple of pices of dialogue and a splash page arent what id call happenings.

But it's not nothing.

[Darthphere]

But it's not nothing.


But its not enough to claim this to be the best Batman comic ever.:o

[SpideyInATree]

But that's not what we're talking about here.

Maybe that certain poster thinks that it's going to be the greatest Batman comic ever. And you think otherwise. He is not wrong. You are not wrong.

[Darthphere]

But that's not what we're talking about here.

Maybe that certain poster thinks that it's going to be the greatest Batman comic ever. And you think otherwise. He is not wrong. You are not wrong.


I never said they were wrong SIAT. Im just saying I dont think we have enough comic to start making such claims. Im loving this title so far, but Morrison can easily mess this up.

[SpideyInATree]

I never said they were wrong SIAT. Im just saying I dont think we have enough comic to start making such claims. Im loving this title so far, but Morrison can easily mess this up.

Oh, he could very easily mess this up.

[Darthphere]

Then were in agreement and we wasted countless minutes bickering. Its all your fault.

[SpideyInATree]

It's not all my fault. It takes two to tango.

[Darthphere]

It's not all my fault. It takes two to tango.


But three to lambada.:confused:

[Mee]

My issue finally came today, overall pretty good. I didn't really get why Bats through Joker in the dumpster other than he hates him. But I like Alfred trying to help Bruce be a playah. Kubert's art is great, should be cool to see Bats vs. the ninja-bats. :ninja:+ :bat: =:up:

[CConn]

But its not enough to claim this to be the best Batman comic ever.:oI never said it was one of the best Batman comics ever. I said I enjoyed this one issue created ands was surprised about how classic-feeling it was. What was so outlandish about that statement?

[Darthphere]

I never said it was one of the best Batman comics ever. I said I enjoyed this one issue created ands was surprised about how classic-feeling it was. What was so outlandish about that statement?


Im not referring to your statement.

[CConn]

This two page argument all started with your complaint to me. Just seems like rather pointless reason to get into all this about.

[Darthphere]

This two page argument all started with your complaint to me. Just seems like rather pointless reason to get into all this about.


It wasnt a complaint, it was a statement, then SIAT interjected and we moved on. So no, it may have started with your post but it moved beyond that. Dont take it so personally.

[Benstamania]

Picked it up at my comic shop a day or so ago (Along with Justice League Issue Zero, the Flash #2 and the original printing of Son of the Demon) and I freakin love this book. Morrison was VERY sucsessful in giving us classic Batman.

Can't wait for the second issue.

[Bullseye]

A little disapointed with Kubert in this first issue. His run on the X-books look a better than what he is doing with Batman. Then again, its his first issue.

[The Spirit]

How long is Morrison's arc for?

[Nightwing]

How long is Morrison's arc for?

Morrison's arc is four issue's long.

[Bullseye]

I'd take Loeb writing Batman over Morrison any day.

[trustyside-kick]

I never said it was one of the best Batman comics ever. I said I enjoyed this one issue created ands was surprised about how classic-feeling it was. What was so outlandish about that statement?

Yea, just like the arc Face the Face gave a real good BTAS vibe we haven't seen in a while...this arc with just one issue has given off the classic Batman vibe.

I am really looking forward to this arc but I highly doubt they would kill off the Joker. You do not have to go into detail as to why they would not kill him off...he is The Joker...enough said.

It was cool to see Bruce trying to re-adjust to playing his civilain role. We have not really seen him as Bruce Wayne lately so to see that he himself is having trouble adjusting to it is interesting.

I cannot wait for Ibn (isn't that the kid's name?) to meet Tim.

[Comic Book Boy]

A little disapointed with Kubert in this first issue. His run on the X-books look a better than what he is doing with Batman. Then again, its his first issue.
Wasn't that the other Kubert? (I'm thinking of the guy who did the first UX arc) The one on BATMAN is different (I think).

[Comic Book Boy]

Morrison's arc is four issue's long.
I actually kinda like how it wont be drawn out for a ridiculous length. A four issue story is nice. (Though the best ones are often one issue stories).

[Nightwing]

Wasn't that the other Kubert? (I'm thinking of the guy who did the first UX arc) The one on BATMAN is different (I think).

It was Adam Kubert who drew for UX. Andy is the one currently on Batman.

I actually kinda like how it wont be drawn out for a ridiculous length. A four issue story is nice. (Though the best ones are often one issue stories).

When I heard it would be Morrison taking over the Batman title, after Face to Face, I expected a few more issues. But considering it's only to bring Ibn back into continuity, and introduce him to the Bat family, I can understand why it's only four. Which I'm fine with.

[The Batman]

Morrison's doing at least 15 issues

[The Sage]

Morrison rocks. The issue was great. I agree with MJZ that Bermejo has the best Batman currently, but in terms of mainstream, Kubert's Batman is the best right now. Reminds me of Neal Adams.

I loved the Son of the Demon story, so it's great to see it brought back into continuity. I'm sure Morrison will handle it well.

[Bullseye]

Wasn't that the other Kubert? (I'm thinking of the guy who did the first UX arc) The one on BATMAN is different (I think).

Both Kuberts had a run on UXM and various X-Men titles.

[Nightwing]

Morrison's doing at least 15 issues

At Comic-Con, Morrison said he had around 18 issues plotted. As well as the option of continuing afterward.

[Nightwing]

Also, there was this little tibit from Andy Kubert.

Andy Kubert: "Batman's son is nuts."

http://www.newsarama.com/WW_Chicago_06/DCUniverse.html

[Darthphere]

Well yeah, look he raised the kid.

[Bullseye]

At Comic-Con, Morrison said he had around 18 issues plotted. As well as the option of continuing afterward.

I'm so happy to hear that.:rolleyes:

Although, I am looking forward to what Morrison does with his time on Batman.

[squeekness]

Howdy, I am new to Batman but not new to comics. I asked my comic book guy what to pick up for Batman and he suggested not only the Detective Comics, but this one as well. I've been a long time marvel reader so I am familiar with Morrison and all the Kuberts as well. Granted this is only one issue, but I really liked it. The only other Batman I've read is Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Year One. Well, All Star Bats, too, but that thing is so late and so small a run, I don't think it counts. I hope this Batman arc proves compelling enough to keep me on. So far so good. :)

[trustyside-kick]

Howdy, I am new to Batman but not new to comics. I asked my comic book guy what to pick up for Batman and he suggested not only the Detective Comics, but this one as well. I've been a long time marvel reader so I am familiar with Morrison and all the Kuberts as well. Granted this is only one issue, but I really liked it. The only other Batman I've read is Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Year One. Well, All Star Bats, too, but that thing is so late and so small a run, I don't think it counts. I hope this Batman arc proves compelling enough to keep me on. So far so good. :)

It will be hard to get a hold of but The Man Who Laughs Graphic Novel is like a must; also The Killing Joke is huge hit.

[squeekness]

I've heard about the Killing Joke, that it was good. I think I saw the trade for that somewhere recently, too. I was curious about Hush, but I only saw the second half in the trades. Didn't make sense to grab it if I couldn't find the first part...

[trustyside-kick]

I loved Hush...but I know some people who did not like it. I recommend getting it along with The Killing Joke and (the rare) The Man Who Laughs.

[Mee]

Hush is great, but yeah you have to get both parts. Killing Joke is great too, if somewhat overrated.

[trustyside-kick]

Hush is great, but yeah you have to get boths parts. Killing Joke is great too, if somewhat overrated.

Yes TKJ is somewhat overrated...but I feel YO and DKR are also overrated but good.

[squeekness]

I started with the two Loeb/Sale trades because I loved their work at Marvel -- Gambit/Wolverine Victims, Daredevil Yellow, Spiderman Blue and Hulk Gray. I love the two Batman series they did and it only made me want to pick up some kind of a Batman ongoing. As I said, All Star Bats which is now quarterly at best, doesn't count.


I will add those other trades to my watch list. Thanks. :)

[trustyside-kick]

What do you mean by this:

As I said, All Star Bats which is now quarterly at best, doesn't count.

You like that series? Most fans hate it because the Batman Frank Miller presents in that series is completely different with stuff like his attitude and morals. I for one dislike the Batman in that story but am hoping it gets better.

[squeekness]

Well, I was like that at first until I reminded myself just who Frank Miller is. I said, "Oh, this is Sin City Batman" and then it all made a sort of sense. Do I think it's as good as the Loeb/Sale stuff I just read? It ain't even close. That's part of the reason I was saying I needed to pick up some other, hopefully more satsifying ongoing. I only started with All Star Bats because it was just starting (think Ultimate Batman) and was going to be outside of regular continuity. Think about it. Batman is up to what? 855? That's pretty intimidating to a newblet like me. All that back history. But between all the trades I just read, I feel a little more comfortable on who everyone is and now I am less confused. I just hate picking up a book in the middle of things and not knowing who is who and what is going on. :)

[trustyside-kick]

Yea there is an extremely huge Sin City vibe in it. While I like the Sin City story and its vibe...it doesn't mix well with Batman for me...for Punisher? Sure. Possibly for Daredevil? Maybe.

[squeekness]

I'm not a real big fan of the uber violence, it bores me after a while, and that's one reason I can't read the Punisher. It just gets to be too much. They just said All Star Bats is going to end at 12 so maybe I'll get the whole run. If it had kept going, I probably would have dropped it if that's all it had going for it. Right now, I am curious what role Black Canary and Supes are going to have in this book. If it was going to be endless pages of Bruce abusing Robin, I would have dropped it already. :)

[trustyside-kick]

Yea, well...time to get back to topic! :O

I was a shocked in the beginning of the issue where Batman pointed the gun at Joker. And then he goes and blasts him in the face? The GCPD says "Batman--no--he's still alive!" but I do not see how when he shot him in the face; but I know DC would never kill off the Joker.

Also, did anyone else notice that the gun came from out of his utility belt? He did not just pick if up from the floor...or did he? The panel doesn't exactly show him reach down...it shows one picture with Batman's hand near his belt and the next with a gun in his hand. If he did get it from his belt...I am also shocked Batman would carry a gun in his belt. :eek:

[JTStarkiller]

You do know that wasn't Batman, right?

[Mee]

Yeah that was an ex-cop gone coo-coo.

[Kool-Aid]

I got Andy Kubert sig on the first issue he did with Grant today.

Okay now that I've posted in this thread its officially official.http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/5112/jockeywl4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[trustyside-kick]

You do know that wasn't Batman, right?

Whoops. I didn't look carefully at that page. I assumed it was one of those motion pictures you know? But both Batman are different; one being clean and the other torn up. My bad. :O

[Kool-Aid]

Yes, it is your bad prepair for a spanking.http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/1456/msnohau8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Kraven]

Just read this issue today, and I really liked it. Especially the art. I also enjoyed seeing the whole "Bruce is a playboy" thing going on. I thought it was a pretty good story overall.

[Ceb-Man]

I picked my issue up today and really loved it. It will be interesting to see what Morrison and Kubert have in store for us.

[LinternaVerde]

Hush is great, but yeah you have to get both parts. Killing Joke is great too, if somewhat overrated.

what WHAT?

alan moore is god among men
the killing joke is a perfect comic. no more. no less.

[Hush]

Just read this issue and I loved it. Cant wait til the next ish but I will have to.

[Mee]

what WHAT?

alan moore is god among men
the killing joke is a perfect comic. no more. no less.
I wouldn't say perfect. The whole thing feels a bit...rushed? It's a very quick read. And the ending with Bats laughing didn't seem right to me.

It's still a great book, I like it, but it's overrated IMO.

[Bullseye]

I'm guessing I'm the only one who thinks Kuber'ts art is a little off in this issue. I had a discussion about that today and you can definately notice a difference.

On another note, since Batman Confidential will debut soon, is there a thread for that comic in this forum made yet?

[Mee]

What do you mean by off? I thought it was good.

[Bullseye]

I didn't say it was bad, just that the art varies from his work on a few of the X-Men titles. That's all.

I think Kubert might have done the inks for Batman #655, that could be the reason.

[squeekness]

I thought the art was very decent myself. :D

[Mee]

I didn't say it was bad, just that the art varies from his work on a few of the X-Men titles. That's all.

I think Kubert might have done the inks for Batman #655, that could be the reason.
I guess it's bound to be different some, moving from Marvel to DC. Just look at Jim Lee.

[Bullseye]

Was Scott Williams the inker for all of Lee's issues on X-Men? Because whoever the inker is, it makes quite a difference.

Actually, I think I'm wrong about there being a different inker for Lee's X-Men and his Batman work. I think Scott Williams was the inker for both.

I'll have to research it more.

[The Joker.]

The latest issue was class. Loved Joker's bit at the start. Killing Batman in front of little children.

Now that is evil :joker:

[Nightwing]

I thought the art was very decent myself. :D

Honestly, I thought it was decent. It should improve more as the run continues. This was only the first issue.

[Kraven]

On another note, since Batman Confidential will debut soon, is there a thread for that comic in this forum made yet?

When does this come out? Who's working on it? Am I asking too many questions?

[JTStarkiller]

I think not til November.

From Wikipedia: The first story arc by Andy Diggle and Whilce Portacio will feature Batman’s first encounter with Superman’s nemesis Lex Luthor.

[Bullseye]

I know there was a thread for Batman Confidential, perhaps it was in the DC Comics Forum. I think Superman Confidential looks a bit better from the news about the first story arc.

[Nightwing]

I know there was a thread for Batman Confidential, perhaps it was in the DC Comics Forum. I think Superman Confidential looks a bit better from the news about the first story arc.

There was a thread made for the book's announcement here. (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235150)

[Nightwing]

Preview for issue #656.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P10.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P11.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P8.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P9.jpg

[Darthphere]

I wonder if DC will ever decide, Blue or Black?

[Mee]

Somehow, I doubt it. The belt though, yellow forever.

[Darthphere]

I like the blue, but it just looks off in those pages.

[Mee]

It's too light if you ask me. But I guess it's an homage to Neal Adams.

[Darthphere]

But the thing with Neal Adams was the blue was a contrast to the darkness around him, everything on that page is bright.

[squeekness]

Do any of you know if the Loeb/Sale Haunted Knight trade is worth buying?

[Darthphere]

Pretty much anything Loeb/Sale is worth buying.

[squeekness]

Pretty much anything Loeb/Sale is worth buying.I have the Long Halloween and Dark Victory trades and love them, but the Haunted Knight, by its description, is a collection of Halloween one shots. I just didn't know if it was as good if it wasn't a series in the same way as the others. :)

[Mee]

It's not TLH or DV, but it's a good read. A few different stories all in one book, pretty cool.

[squeekness]

It's not TLH or DV, but it's a good read. A few different stories all in one book, pretty cool.Kewl. I think I will pick it up. Amazon had it for about $10. :)

[GNR]

I've heard about the Killing Joke, that it was good. I think I saw the trade for that somewhere recently, too. I was curious about Hush, but I only saw the second half in the trades. Didn't make sense to grab it if I couldn't find the first part...

Avoid Hush squeek.

You're money is better spent on Year One and Dark Knight Returns by Miller.

[Mee]

I wouldn't say avoid Hush. And how can you, didn't you say you haven't read it?

I thought it was great.

[squeekness]

Avoid Hush squeek.

You're money is better spent on Year One and Dark Knight Returns by Miller.Year One I have and really liked. Don't have Dark Knight Returns tho....*adds to wish list* Hush apppeals to me because I saw Loeb's name on the writing credits and Jim Lee for the art. Amazon had both parts in trades on sale if you buy them together. I think I am still going to grab it becuase enough of you guys have really liked it. :)

[GNR]

I'm looking for other Batman trades now that I've picked up the "essentials",Year 1,DKR,LH and DV.

Once I pick up Secret Identity,both my Bats and Supes trades will be set for a while.I'm still pondering if I should pick up Monster Men and Trinity.

[Fledermaus]

Monster Men and Trinuity are both great. I'm a big fan of Matt Wagner, so I guess I'm biased. You should read New Frontier. Batman plays a somewhat small, but key role in the overall story.

[Nightwing]

I wonder if DC will ever decide, Blue or Black?

Through out the old days, it was a techonology type machine with the type of color separators they used. You even got humorous comments where someone like Alfred would refer to the batsuit as black and gray, even as Batman is standing there in blue and gray.

Today it can be rendered in black and it will look really good. But some artists for nostologia sake, stick with shade of blue.

[Darthphere]

I never doubted that, I just wish they chose a color and went with it.

[Nightwing]

I personally like the shade of blue in the preview.

[CConn]

I actually really like the light blue suits as well.

Although it is sorta nonsensical how they can have Batman in a light blue suit in one comic, a dark blue suit in another, and an all black one in even another, and have them all supposed to take place around the same time. :o

[SpideyInATree]

Great previews. I'm really looking forward to this book big time. I really like the light blue suit, though it doesn't really mesh well with the suit over in Detective comics.

I'm looking for other Batman trades now that I've picked up the "essentials",Year 1,DKR,LH and DV.

Once I pick up Secret Identity,both my Bats and Supes trades will be set for a while.I'm still pondering if I should pick up Monster Men and Trinity.


You should definitely pick up Monster Men. You've read Year One and Monster Men is basically like a Batman Year 1.5

I'd also suggest A Death in the Family, Blind Justice, Tales of the Demon, The Killing Joke, and Knightfall - all three parts...if you read this in long sittings it turns out a pretty great story.

[Bullseye]

Preview for issue #656.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P10.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P11.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P8.jpg


http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Aug06previews/BM656P9.jpg



See, I think this looks better than what was shown in the previous issue. Either that, or I'm just being a silly goose.

[Darthphere]

On the first page I really like the pop art reference in the background with the BANG! Its a nice touch, akin to Steranko.

[Black Canary22]

I personally like the shade of blue in the preview.

Agreed, Bats. ;)

I also think the bigger question is what was his definative look? I mean Batman has had a lot of costume and logo changes.

[Nightwing]

Agreed, Bats. ;)

I also think the bigger question is what was his definative look? I mean Batman has had a lot of costume and logo changes.
That's akin to the famous comment from Issac Asimov. When asked "What is the Golden Age of science fiction", he replied; "Twelve". A lot of it is about what you grew up with and enjoyed most.

[Bullseye]

I personally like the shade of blue in the preview.

I prefer Bat's costume in All Star Batman & Robin. From time to time, I like to see variations of Batman's costume.

[Nightwing]

Cover to #659.

http://images.newsarama.com/dcnew/Nov06/bat_nov/BM_Cv659_solicit.jpg
BATMAN #659
Written by Grant Morrison
Art and cover by Andy Kubert
Writer Grant Morrison continues his acclaimed run on BATMAN with fan-favorite artist Andy Kubert! After the shocking events of BATMAN #655, in which the Joker was shot point-blank in the face, the Clown Prince of Crime makes his triumphant return to Gotham to wreak havoc on the city and take his revenge on Batman! And as citizens of Gotham City will soon discover, the Joker’s reappearance is no laughing matter.
On sale November 22 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US

[Kraven]

Definately looking forward to see how different the Joker is from the point-blank shot.

[Two-Face]

WOW! that's cool.

[The Joker]

Excellent. The clown prince of crime returns :up:

Love that Joker :joker:

[Bullseye]

I think I might be the only one not enjoying Morrison's first issue of BATMAN and I willl probably feel the same way about the rest of Morrison's run on this book.

I never liked Morrison's work on superheros anyway, or at least his work on characters with powers.

[The Caped Knight]

I knew he'd return . He's BATS greatest villian , their's no way Dc would kill off BATMAN's number 1 Archnemesis . I'm looking forward to reading the issue of The Clown Prince of Crime Return .

[SpideyInATree]

Sweet, Joker comes back. I wonder if he'll be all disfigured and stuff now...well, more than he already is, heh.

Definitely looking forward to that story. :up:

[squeekness]

Sweet, Joker comes back. I wonder if he'll be all disfigured and stuff now...well, more than he already is, heh.

Definitely looking forward to that story.



[trying her best not to sound like a complete Batman noob even though she is] What happened to the Joker? Are you saying he should be disfigured because he got shot in the face? [/noob]

[SpideyInATree]

[trying her best not to sound like a complete Batman noob even though she is] What happened to the Joker? Are you saying he should be disfigured because he got shot in the face? [/noob]

That's what I'm figuring. You gotta figure he's gonna have a scar or something where he got shot. It'll just be interesting to see how badly it looks, if there is anything at all.

[squeekness]

That's what I'm figuring. You gotta figure he's gonna have a scar or something where he got shot. It'll just be interesting to see how badly it looks, if there is anything at all.That's true. You wouldn't walk away from something like that unscathed. It would be cool if he was even crazier from having a near death experience, though he's pretty nutty as it is. :p

[Darthphere]

I dont know, I wouldnt be too happy if someone shot me in the face, but thats just me.

[Nirr]

yeah I started Out On batman, OH and this New issue Is good, I love the begining

[CrimsonMist]

so, in 656, did anyone else find the panel with Talia and Batman kissing, with Batman butt-naked, with the exception of his cowl, hilarious? I found it kind of weird as well, being as how Batman didn't wear the cowl in Son of The Demon. Damned continuity errors! ::shakes fist::

[Binker]

BATMAN #656

PLOT:
While Bruce is meeting a lovely Jezebel Jet at the art museum (that is showing off comic book art), the ninja Man-Bats attack forcing Bruce to change into the caped crusader. With the battle ending with a draw, the father meets the son.

REVIEW:
Ninja Man-Bats is what you get from this book. From the battle, its very interesting. The art is fine and its nice seeing Batman using the knowledge of bats (since he lives with them) against the man-bats. Basically the whole issue is Batman vs. the Ninja Man-Bats.

In a quick note, I wonder if the New Earth is the reason why we have actual comic books of the DCU heroes in the DCU. I maybe wrong but that never happened before.

Two things from Talia and Batman's son: the son is named Damien. If that sounds familar, thats the name to the kid in "The Omen" thats Satan's son. Does this foreshadow the future of the son? Maybe. Damien may sound like "demon" but its not that. There is also a Christian saint of the third century see Saints Cosmas and Damian whom healed people and asked for no money. Another example is Father Damien of Hawaii, who died while establishing leper colonies there another saint figure. Hell, Damien is also the first name of Father Karras in The Exorcist.

So the question is; why is he named Damien and does this reflect the future of the character? Is it because since Damien is like demon, and thats why he is still the heir to Ra's Al Ghul "The Demon's Head"? Or is it because its somewhat related to bats, which are symbols of sorts to evil, like an evil version of Batman, or maybe its saying he will be a good guy (kid) and take over the Batman mantle from his old man and not be like whom he was the heir for. Either way, we ahev to wait and see.

Also, Talia I thought was gonna like on the same page as Batman in future issues but she seems to be more in like her father. She says they will meet in the future so thats another reason to wait and see.

Overall, the issue was all about the fight with the Man-Bats. Besides that and Batman meeting his son and his name and the question of what that means, that was it. A standard rating of "7" fits well. Not bad, not great, just ok. But I will say still get it, its still needed story-wise. I want to see how Robin takes this in the next issue.

RATING: 7/10

[Nightwing]

A very worth reading interview with Morrison. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Morrison/Morrison_Batman.html)
Having said that, Batman will always reflect his times: the idea here is not to soften or emotionally reset Batman as an exercise in nostalgia but to make him more real and relatable, while at the same time offering some rationale for his complex multi-faceted personality I want to see a Batman that combines the cynic, the scholar, the daredevil, the businessman, the superhero, the wit, the lateral thinker , the aristocrat. He terrifies the guilty but he has great compassion for the weak and the downtrodden and will lay his life on the line for anybody who's in trouble. He's a master of yoga and meditation who has as much control over his body and his feelings as any human. He has a wider range of experiences than most people will dream of in ten lifetimes. This is not a one-note character! So, while I won't pretend we all live on Sunnybrook Farm, I don't think its appropriate - particularly in trying times - to present our fictional heroes as unsmiling vengeance machines. I'd rather Batman embodied the best that secular humanism has to offer - a sour-faced, sexually-repressed, humorless, uptight, angry, and all-round grim 'n' gritty Batman would be more likely to join the Taliban surely?
I love that he understands comics are not about real life ...but can reflect aspects of real life. Most of all I love how he understands that the primary objective for comics is to entertain. Morrison has an insight into things that often is quite different than most people think and it's why his titles tend to be so good and original.

[Benstamania]

That interview with Morrison was fantastic. I also like the fact that he believes the same thing I believe, comic's do NOT have to be real life. I'm all for reflecting somethings but like it was said above, comics are for entertainment.

I can't wait to pick up the latest issue, won't be able to do so until Friday. I haven't been this excited about Batman comics (along with Detective) in years.

[Bullseye]

Grant Morrison: Batman has traditionally been the 'superhero' book, while Detective Comics has always been the crime and mystery book, so it worked out perfectly when Paul Dini chose to focus on the self-contained whodunnits and left me with the superhero action soap opera.

I know that's been said before about Batman being the 'superhero' book and Detective Comics being the crime and mystery book. I just can't remember who else said that.

I do agree with Morrison about that. At the very least, its one of the few things a agree with him.

[JTStarkiller]

I'm glad the actual panels weren't as bright as those previewed on the last page of this thread. Overall, a decent read. I still prefer Dini's Detective issues over this, but the last two should be good.

[Mister J]

Outside of the shot towards Miller (which I see has its own thread), I really liked from the Morrison interview.
As I say, I have fifteen issues planned and there's a good chance I'll do more. My goals are to make the Joker soul-destroyingly scary again, to get the reader further into Bruce Wayne's head than ever before and to create at least one good new Batman villain.

As far as 656, that was a big can of a ninja-bat whoop-ass that got opened up. Unfortunately, it wasn't big enough. The payoff with Talia was nice and I'm still laughing at that shot of Bats about to do the horizontal mambo with his cowl on. :up:

I what to see Talia's plans for the Prime Minister's wife. Her holding "the whole world hostage to a new kind of terror" sounds interesting. The fireworks between Tim and Damien should be good too.
"Father. I imagined you taller."...? Kids today, no respect, I tell ya.

[The Spirit]

Ok, I can't help it anymore...I have a few questions.

1) People think that Batman doesn't know how to love. Is that true?

2) What was that girl's name in the beginning of the latest issue? I only scanned through it at my shop, but I'm curious.

3) How does everyone know the kid's name is Damien? Was it mentioned in the issue?

[Nightwing]

1) People think that Batman doesn't know how to love. Is that true?
What?

In order to be the World's Greatest Detective, he would have to have a pretty profound understanding of human relationships, behavior, and emotion, including an understanding of love. It's not possible to understand human emotion without ever experiencing it; it can not be put into words.
2) What was that girl's name in the beginning of the latest issue? I only scanned through it at my shop, but I'm curious.
Jezebel Jet.
3) How does everyone know the kid's name is Damien? Was it mentioned in the issue?
No. It wasn't in the issue specifically. But in the very last page previewing #657. It mentions Bruce and "Damien" returning to Gotham. Where he will eventually meet Tim.

[The Batman]

Batmans loved

Talia...Selina...Julie Madison....Vicki Vale...Vesper Fairchild. I'm pretty sure he's loved all those girls.

Even without romantic love, I'm sure bruce loves alfred, dick, tim, jason, babs, etc

[celldog]

Who wants to bet that when this is over, Damien is a clone of Bruce??

I can't believe they used the name "Damien". :eek:

[celldog]

Batmans loved

Talia...Selina...Julie Madison....Vicki Vale...Vesper Fairchild. I'm pretty sure he's loved all those girls.

Even without romantic love, I'm sure bruce loves alfred, dick, tim, jason, babs, etc


Sasha too.........

http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/fanq/h/a/haines2/sasha2.jpg

[The Batman]

forgot about her....

[Daredevil TMWF]

Ok, I understood the issue perfectly. But who in the high hell is Aunt Agatha? Was she only created for this issue?

[Nightwing]

Ok, I understood the issue perfectly. But who in the high hell is Aunt Agatha? Was she only created for this issue?
Aunt Agatha is an old Silver Age character. She wasn't created just for the issue.

[The Spirit]

What?

In order to be the World's Greatest Detective, he would have to have a pretty profound understanding of human relationships, behavior, and emotion, including an understanding of love. It's not possible to understand human emotion without ever experiencing it; it can not be put into words.
Thanks for the help Bats.

Y'know there are also people who are on the borderline ofpsychotic,emotionally repressed and emotionless. Marine bootcamp does that to alot of kids right out of high school. It does happen and it is realistic, What helped make Batman like that was when Frank Miller made him like that. Just my two cents....

[The Spirit]

Also, doesn't the name Damien have some sort of meaning?

[The Joker]

Batmans loved

Talia...Selina...Julie Madison....Vicki Vale...Vesper Fairchild. I'm pretty sure he's loved all those girls.


I can't believe The Batman forgot Silver St Cloud ;)

[CConn]

Also, doesn't the name Damien have some sort of meaning?It's sorta related to the Greek word for "Spirit" (ironic, I'm telling you that :confused: ), but most of it's meaning just comes from the Omen movie. :o

[Nightwing]

Y'know there are also people who are on the borderline ofpsychotic,emotionally repressed and emotionless.
Yes there are. But in general they are not high achievers. Just the opposite, in fact, people like that don't thrive in our society. And you generally won't find them employed as detectives, or in any other position that involves interacting with people.
Marine bootcamp does that to alot of kids right out of high school.
Most Marines I've met are pretty well adjusted. Boot camp is an intense experience, to be in sure, but Marines marry, socialize, party, etc. Just like everyone else. They don't lock themselves away in the dark and brood all the time.
It does happen and it is realistic, What helped make Batman like that was when Frank Miller made him like that. Just my two cents....
Except Miller's Batman wasn't like that. His Batman was intense, driven, even obsessed, but he had people skills. DKR Batman is able to have a relationship of sorts with Selina Kyle. He stops to correct a young child's bad language. Year One Batman interacts with Gordon, Alfred, even Holly in ways that may not be warm, but are compassionate and feeling. Year One Batman is more concerned with saving James Jr. from going off the bridge than with catching the real people who did it.

[Nightwing]

Also, doesn't the name Damien have some sort of meaning?
Yes. It derives from from the Greeks. It means "to divine power", "to subdue" or "to tame".

[The Spirit]

Except Miller's Batman wasn't like that. His Batman was intense, driven, even obsessed, but he had people skills. DKR Batman is able to have a relationship of sorts with Selina Kyle. He stops to correct a young child's bad language. Year One Batman interacts with Gordon, Alfred, even Holly in ways that may not be warm, but are compassionate and feeling. Year One Batman is more concerned with saving James Jr. from going off the bridge than with catching the guys who did it.
You're right, Batman. :D:up:



Anyway folks, I'm taking a 2 week vacation. So gooooodbye! :o

[The Spirit]

It's sorta related to the Greek word for "Spirit" (ironic, I'm telling you that :confused: ), but most of it's meaning just comes from the Omen movie. :o
Yeah. That is ironic, man. :confused: Seriously I...didn't know that...:o

[Kool-Aid]

I wish Alan Moore would write a tripple size issue for Batman #666.

[SpideyInATree]

Read # 656 today. Man, that was a lot of Ninja Man-Bat ass whupping. Though even Batman has his limits, heh.

And I too thought that it was a nice touch by Morrison when he was about to nail Talia in that flashback that he was naked...minus the cowl. I laughed but I'm sure Morrison had Kubert draw that on purpose. Drugged or not, Bruce is a weird dude sometimes. :O

[GNR]

I'm going to wait a bit on this arc.The whole man-bats thing sounds nuts.

[SpideyInATree]

I'm going to wait a bit on this arc.The whole man-bats thing sounds nuts.

With Grant Morrison as the writer you're going to get some crazy things, usually for the good.

[Darthphere]

The Man-Bats thing was so meh anyway. The highlight of this issue was the art.

[Mister J]

The art was rather vivid. I'm not sure if it was the art setting as a background or what, but the visuals were great.

[mightiest_mortal]

Only really read a couple of trades of Batman, but gotta pick this up cos its Morrison AND Kubert. Am actually liking it so far... the art in the last issue was fantastic.. i loved the contextual use of all of the Pop art images. Was great seeing some "BLAM"s and stuff in there, old school style :D

[Bullseye]

I don't quite get it what everyone sees in Morrison's writing. And really, I appreciate more of what Miller has done with is time on Batman titles than what Morrison has so far.

I'm trying to be optimistic about Morrison's run on the book.

[squeekness]

I am a bit of Batman newb, but I like this arc so far. I do find it ironic that during the convention, Alfred is pushing Bruce to do the whole "Playboy" thing, when at the end of the issue, we see Bruce supposedly has a son he never knew about. Maybe Alfred wouldn't be pushing Bruce so hard if he knew Bruce wasn't being as "careful" as he should be. :p

[OtepApe]

I have enjoyed Morrinson's run so far. I haven't been blown away by it which is what I think most of us were expecting. Morrison has a balls to the wall style of writing and I am pretty sure most of us were expecting something big from him in the first issue. He's going to give us some crazy stuff during his run and with Morrison it'll be a lot of fun I am sure.

[Darthphere]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/darthphere/gm.jpg

[CConn]

Grant Morrison scares me. :)

[Darthphere]

Thats always a good thing.

[Mee]

"Don't Do Drugs. You'll write great comics, but you'll be completely insane/Scottish."

[Mee]

Finally got my issue, great read. Although Damien's first line to Bats was somewhat cliche'.

Also, I dunno if it's been pointed out before, but I think it amusing the son of Batman has the name of the Anti-Christ.(in the movies anyway)

[trustyside-kick]

What happened in the second issue was completely obvious: ninja man-bats would attack some public place, take Batman captive, Talia break the news to Bruce, Ibn and Bruce finally meet.

Not saying I didn't like it, just saying was obvious. The art is great but just looks too much like Jim Lee's Batman.

[JLBats]

Good issue, a little bit too much set-up to be great, but good nonetheless. One thing I liked was that it took Talia, a woman who has always been defined, for the worse, IMO, by the men in her life, and recast her as a strong, independent character in her own right.

[Two-Face]

Since this is a " Batman Comic Thread" I want to ask what was the first comic that featured Two-Face?

[Fear of god]

it's 'tec 66

http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/batman/twoface-tec66.jpg

There are more Golden Age Two Faces and he is called Harvey Kent.

Here's the origin (Harvey Apollo) from a newspaper

http://www.goldenagebatman.com/batmansunday1a.jpg


http://www.goldenagebatman.com/batmansunday2a.jpg

[Two-Face]

Thanks Fear.

Why Harvey was turned into acting? When DC change it to DA?

[Ibn]

Finally got my issue, great read. Although Damien's first line to Bats was somewhat cliche'.

Also, I dunno if it's been pointed out before, but I think it amusing the son of Batman has the name of the Anti-Christ.(in the movies anyway)

WAIT.......... SO HIS NAME'S NOT IBN?!! Or do they say that Damien is the translation of his name?!

****in ChristianBaleBatman! This is his fault!

[Ibn]

Good issue, a little bit too much set-up to be great, but good nonetheless. One thing I liked was that it took Talia, a woman who has always been defined, for the worse, IMO, by the men in her life, and recast her as a strong, independent character in her own right.

Thank God. Last time I saw her, she was a damn drone (God I hat Death and the Maidens). Where the hell is Nyssa in all of this anyway?

[Fledermaus]

WAIT.......... SO HIS NAME'S NOT IBN?!! Or do they say that Damien is the translation of his name?!

****in ChristianBaleBatman! This is his fault!

It said it in the next issue blurb on the last page of the comic.

Where the hell is Nyssa in all of this anyway?

She's pretty busy being dead right now.

[Nightwing1984]

it's 'tec 66

http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/batman/twoface-tec66.jpg

There are more Golden Age Two Faces and he is called Harvey Kent.

Here's the origin (Harvey Apollo) from a newspaper

http://www.goldenagebatman.com/batmansunday1a.jpg


http://www.goldenagebatman.com/batmansunday2a.jpg

Sweet!

[Nightwing1984]

Those pics are really cool. :D

[Nightwing]

Thanks Fear.

Why Harvey was turned into acting? When DC change it to DA?
Apocrypha. Books or ideas that aren't included in the canon. Specifically, it refers to books that didn't make it into the Bible, like the Gospel of Peter or other Gnostic books. So, what you saw there was an idea that has nothing to do with the "real" Harvey Dent, but it appeared in the newspaper strips.

Those are from the Sunday comic strip that ran in the 40s or 50s. Their version of Two-Face was named "Harvey Apollo" and was an actor. The real Harvey was never an actor.

[Two-Face]

Apocrypha. Books or ideas that aren't included in the canon. Specifically, it refers to books that didn't make it into the Bible, like the Gospel of Peter or other Gnostic books. So, what you saw there was an idea that has nothing to do with the "real" Harvey Dent, but it appeared in the newspaper strips.

Those are from the Sunday comic strip that ran in the 40s or 50s. Their version of Two-Face was named "Harvey Apollo" and was an actor. The real Harvey was never an actor.

Thanks Bats. :up:

[Super_Child]

I will wait a while before jumping on this bandwagon. I have chosen Dectective Comics as my current Bat-Book. Though it was a tough decision.

[Teen Lantern]

What issue is the book at now?


I haven't been to the Hype in awhile, LOL. :D

[Nightwing]

What issue is the book at now?


I haven't been to the Hype in awhile, LOL. :D
Batman #656. And currently on part two of Batman and Son.

[Ibn]

It said it in the next issue blurb on the last page of the comic.



She's pretty busy being dead right now.

What? God I need to get back into comics. How'd she die?

[Fledermaus]

Car bomb. In the first OYL issue of Robin, I believe.

[Nightwing]

What? God I need to get back into comics. How'd she die?
She was seen in Northern Africa during Robin #148. Nyssa looked to be planning some sort of plot, which was unknown. As she was leaving, and entering her car, it later exploded. Lady Shiva confirmed the death.

[Teen Lantern]

Batman #656. And currently on part two of Batman and Son.


Thanks Bats, can you tell me what happend in the issue please? :D:up:

[Teen Lantern]

oh, I almost forgot, what year was Talia's first appearence?

[Nightwing]

Thanks Bats, can you tell me what happend in the issue please? :D:up:
This issue starts with Bruce meeting Jezebel Jet, who is the sponsor of the fundraiser he's attending. Ms. Jet is now the leader of a small African nation. Her goal is to make Africa more than just a fashionable cause. They keeping talking and she later asks this is her chance to become a “Wayne Girl.” Jet says Bruce has a reputation. Jet goes to talk to some more guests and tells Bruce that she knows where he lives. Suddenly, a couple more women walk up to Bruce’s arms and appear quite willing to become Wayne Girls.

Then we see Dr. Langstrom and his wife being tossed out of the back of a truck on a street corner near the charity gala event. Alfred, waiting in the limo, sees what happens and immediately recognizes Langstrom. Alfred rushes to his side and Langstrom tells Alfred that he gave “them” the Man-Bat serum.

Suddenly, we see an army of 6 Man-Bats. But, wait, they aren’t just man-bats; they are ninja Man-Bats. And in the words of Bruce these ninja Man-Bats are an “Alarming twist.”

Alfred enters the building and gives Bruce his briefcase with his suit in it. Bruce slips into something a bit more comfortable and suddenly Batman is on the scene. He takes out the six Man-Bats one by one. And he does so quite brutally. After he takes them all out, re-enforcements begin to arrive. Batman dives straight ahead and takes them on. He eventually takes them out in a vicious fashion as well.

Then even more Man-Bats fly into the museum and finally overpower Batman and he blacks out. He then wakes up in a some remote location near the water. An army of Man-Bats are around him. Talia approaches. He seemed hardly surprised that Talia was behind all of this. Talia congratulates Batman for taking out at least 30 of her elite Man-Bats. Talia then proceeds to take him down amnesia lane. She mentions a certain night in the desert where they spent the time getting to know each other better.

Talia tells him that they had a son and since birth he has been trained by the masters of the League of Assassins. However, he is growing even beyond Talia’s control. That he lacks discipline and needs the guiding hand of a great man. With that introduction, Damien appears. He looks at Batman and says “Father. I imagined you taller.”

[Nightwing]

oh, I almost forgot, what year was Talia's first appearence?
Detective Comics #411. May 1971.

[menicafan327]

Aunt Agatha is an old Silver Age character. She wasn't created just for the issue.





Batman, do you have a picture of Aunt Agatha in the oldie days, please, please.

[Nightwing]

Batman, do you have a picture of Aunt Agatha in the oldie days, please, please.
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4408/auntagathabatman89cd3.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=auntagathabatman89cd3.jpg)

[FreeRadical]

Bought #655 and #656 today, and.....it was a nice read with the man-bats and the ex-cop dressed as Batman shooting Joker point blank.

But, LOL at Bruce keeping his cowl on while making :heart: with Talia

:woot:

[Buttman]

Wasn't she in the 60s tv show...? Like.. the female Alfred..?

[Fledermaus]

That was Aunt Harriet.

[Buttman]

That was Aunt Harriet.
Oooh.

[SpideyInATree]

Bump, because the Hype pooped on my subscribed threads. :cmad:

Oh, and Morrison's run is so far, so good. I can't wait to see Robin and Damien go at it. :yay:

[Kraven]

BATMAN #660 & 661
Written by John Ostrander
Art by Tom Mandrake
Covers by Gregory Lauren
Don't miss a 4-part murder mystery by the acclaimed team of John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake (THE SPECTRE), starting with two chapters in December! Three horrific murders rock Gotham with only one gruesome connection: parts of the victim's faces have been carved away. Meanwhile, a brutal Russian gangster called Perun threatens Amina Franklin, a doctor working at Leslie Thompkins clinic, which brings in not only the Batman but his bizarre new foe: Grotesk!
And as the mystery of Grotesk deepens, a vicious new player enters the game — a Japanese yakuza named Johnny Kareoke! Batman confronts Kareoke and his murderous Geisha Grrls while the monstrous Grotesk strikes once again!
Issue #660 on sale December 13; #661 on sale December 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Dec06/BM/BM_Cv660solicits.jpg

Something's wrong here.... What happened to Morrison & Kubert? And the whole Joker thing?

[Ceb-Man]

The Joker returns in Batman #659 by Morrsion and Kubert.

[Ceb-Man]

I am very anxious to see how this goes. Morrison and Kubert re doing a great job!
Damien Wayne vs. Tim Drake... very interesting!

[Kraven]

Oh, I knew that he was going to return in #659, but I was under the impression that it might take up an arc. Looking back, I don't know why, as it didn't say anything of the sort in the solicit.

[Cobblepot]

BATMAN #660 & 661
Written by John Ostrander
Art by Tom Mandrake

Sounds great. Tom did a few older issues way back, I'll see if I have these.

[Nightwing]

BATMAN #660 & 661
Written by John Ostrander
Art by Tom Mandrake
Covers by Gregory Lauren
Don't miss a 4-part murder mystery by the acclaimed team of John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake (THE SPECTRE), starting with two chapters in December! Three horrific murders rock Gotham with only one gruesome connection: parts of the victim's faces have been carved away. Meanwhile, a brutal Russian gangster called Perun threatens Amina Franklin, a doctor working at Leslie Thompkins clinic, which brings in not only the Batman but his bizarre new foe: Grotesk!
And as the mystery of Grotesk deepens, a vicious new player enters the game — a Japanese yakuza named Johnny Kareoke! Batman confronts Kareoke and his murderous Geisha Grrls while the monstrous Grotesk strikes once again!
Issue #660 on sale December 13; #661 on sale December 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Dec06/BM/BM_Cv660solicits.jpg

Something's wrong here.... What happened to Morrison & Kubert? And the whole Joker thing?
If they need a fill-in team, at least it's going to be a great one. A quality fill-in. Mandrake on the book and Ostrander as writer. It should be good. Hopefully the arc won't disappoint...

[Orko Is King]

BATMAN #660 & 661
Written by John Ostrander
Art by Tom Mandrake
Covers by Gregory Lauren
Don't miss a 4-part murder mystery by the acclaimed team of John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake (THE SPECTRE), starting with two chapters in December! Three horrific murders rock Gotham with only one gruesome connection: parts of the victim's faces have been carved away. Meanwhile, a brutal Russian gangster called Perun threatens Amina Franklin, a doctor working at Leslie Thompkins clinic, which brings in not only the Batman but his bizarre new foe: Grotesk!
And as the mystery of Grotesk deepens, a vicious new player enters the game — a Japanese yakuza named Johnny Kareoke! Batman confronts Kareoke and his murderous Geisha Grrls while the monstrous Grotesk strikes once again!
Issue #660 on sale December 13; #661 on sale December 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Dec06/BM/BM_Cv660solicits.jpg

Something's wrong here.... What happened to Morrison & Kubert? And the whole Joker thing?

I've never read anything by these guys before. Hopefully, they'll be decent.

[Cobblepot]

Sadly I don't own this comics http://img.search.com/8/8a/300px-Bat386.png
The art is by Tom Mandrake.
I'm sure he'll revise his design but his art is great.

[Ceb-Man]

Oh, I knew that he was going to return in #659, but I was under the impression that it might take up an arc. Looking back, I don't know why, as it didn't say anything of the sort in the solicit.
Yeah I agree. I figured it would be more than one issue.

[Ceb-Man]

Sadly I don't own this comics http://img.search.com/8/8a/300px-Bat386.png
The art is by Tom Mandrake.
I'm sure he'll revise his design but his art is great.

I have that issue. One of my first comics I got back in the1980's. I was impressed then and impressed now. Mandrake did excellent in that issue. That to me is the best Black Mask story, which in fact is his origin.
I cannot wait for this arc and seeing a new villian introduced. I like the main Rogues Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Two-face, and Catwoman, but I am always interested on on a new Batman villian.

[SpideyInATree]

Huh. Ostrander and Mandrake definitely look like they've got an interesting tale to tell, I'll be checking it out most definitely, though I hope Morrison and Kubert return...I would hate to think their run would be THAT short. :wow:

[Kraven]

Batman #657 Preview:
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Sept06/previews/sept28th.html

[Ceb-Man]

Looks like Batman will have his hands full with Damien. It will be very interesting to see. Jason Todd was Problem Child #1. Could Damien be Problem Child #2?

[Mee]

$10 says after that last panel Damien kicks Robin in the groin.

[Nightwing]

Interview with Ostrander. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Mandrake/Ostrander_BM.html)

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Mandrake/BM660p8.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Mandrake/BM660p9.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Mandrake/BM660p10.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Mandrake/BM660p11.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/Mandrake/BM660p12.jpg

[The Caped Knight]

badass BATMAN !!!!!!!!!!!!! :batty:

[Mister J]

Christ, Damien's annoying. I figured he would be so as soon as I spotted that ridiculous Power Ranger outfit he was wearing; all he needed was a helmet. Tim should have just slapped the **** out of him and been done with it. Damien beheading The Spook was a surpirse. I guess that's another body on the lower-list villain pile post-OYL. In closing, 1) What did that little bastard do to Alfred?! and 2) As ridiculous as the Power Ranger look was, the Power Ranger/Robin/Spectre look at the end was exponentially worse. I will definitely be checking out 658. :up:

[The Joker]

Damn right, that Damien is one screwed up little ass hole!!

I laughed when Alfred was wittering on about showing him to his room etc, and Damien just says "F*** you" to Alfred. LOL!

Great issue.

[Cobblepot]

I loved it too. I like the panel where Bat's gets really pissed at him.

[Bullseye]

Well, Morrison got one thing right about this issue. Morrison made me dislike Damien. I want to see the persona of Batman from All Star Batman confront Damien.

[Fledermaus]

Great issue. In the next issue blurb, it says "the ultimate sacrifice will be made"
I think I know what we all hope that means. And when Batman gets pissed at Damian? Damn, I cringed. I was astounded at Batman's patience with Damian.

[SpideyInATree]

Well, Morrison got one thing right about this issue. Morrison made me dislike Damien. I want to see the persona of Batman from All Star Batman confront Damien.

HAHA! I was thinking the same exact thing. "Shut up, Damien! Are you dense? Are your retarded?! I'm the godddamn Batman, *****!" :cmad:

Damien would poop himself around All Star Batman. :oldrazz:

This was a cool issue though. Damien is rather annoying but that's to be expected. I thought he kind of took care of Tim a bit too quickly, but it definitely makes things a whole hell of a lot interesting. And the beheading thing was rather intense.

[Kraven]

http://images.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/batpics/BM_Cv662_solicits.jpg

BATMAN #662
Written by John Ostrander
Art by Tom Mandrake
Cover by Gregory Lauren
The creative team of writer John Ostrander and artist Tom Mandrake continues the 4-part tale of Grotesk! As a blizzard tightens its hold on Gotham, the monstrous Grotesk engineers a bloody confrontation between the forces of Perun and Johnny Kareoke — with Batman caught in between! The lovely Dr. Amina Franklin holds the key to the mystery, but her silence may seal her fate.
On sale January 10 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US

[Kraven]

Preview pages of #658:
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Nov06/previews/nov1st.html

[Jimmylavalette]

Hey does anybody know how old Barbara Gordon was in Batgirl year one

[Quimby2999]

It's an amazing story.

Of course, I didn't expect less from Morrison.

I hope Damien remains a recurring character and isn't killed (to pile on more guilt and angst) or turns out to be some deteriorating clone or hallucination.

[cass]

He's Ra's brought back. Mark my words.

[Kraven]

That would be really interesting, but how would that work?

[Fledermaus]

Here's how:













wait for it.........







RETCON PUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!

[cass]

That would be really interesting, but how would that work?

Havent figured that one out yet.

[Morgoth]

http://images.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/batpics/BM_Cv662_solicits.jpg

BATMAN #662
Written by John Ostrander
Art by Tom Mandrake
Cover by Gregory Lauren
The creative team of writer John Ostrander and artist Tom Mandrake continues the 4-part tale of Grotesk! As a blizzard tightens its hold on Gotham, the monstrous Grotesk engineers a bloody confrontation between the forces of Perun and Johnny Kareoke — with Batman caught in between! The lovely Dr. Amina Franklin holds the key to the mystery, but her silence may seal her fate.
On sale January 10 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 USSo this is the artist after Andy? I like it. :woot: :word:

[Binker]

BATMAN #658

PLOT:
Coming to the batcave, Batman helps Robin with his wounds. Damien says he only has done what he was taught to do. He ends up helping Batman with where Talia is. There, she makes an offer to Batman.

REVIEW:
Well the final part (well maybe the second to last final part) of this arc is here. The reason why I say second to last is because the next one, where the Joker will return, seems to be the finale. Ever since I started the arc, I seem to lowing the rating issue by issue. Was it bad? No really, it was just that this is one of those stories that you would have to read the whole thing to get the final rating. So while again this maybe the second to last issue of the story, I'll still do this and give my overall for the whole arc.

In this issue, we were told about Talia's motive behind the scenes. At first I thought she was going to be with Bruce by the end of the arc with Damien, and that would leave off the path for him and Tim to get along. As it turned out, it wasn't the case and Talia has become more like her father. Her plan was to have Batman join her with their son to rid of the world of evil like her father, or in her mind: a love story of her and Batman. And if he refused like always did, she would kill herself, Damien & Batman together. The Ninja Man-Bats were just "there" to get Batman to where she wanted him.

In the last issue, Damien did a bad thing for Robin fans as he took down Robin, nearly killing him, and appeared with his Robin costume. Now in this, Batman didn't do anything to him to "teach him a lesson". He was angry (he would have to be) but I think he didn't do anything to him because of where Damien was born from. And when Batman went to save Tim's life, that must've shocked Damien and know that there was a miss. Then he started to become okay. I ended up thinking "well if he can do that with Batman, add Robin into that and you have double trouble Robins" (corny, I know). I would like him to come back. I know many thought he was annoying, or wanted him dead, but I see something in him that would be nice to expand in a next appearence. I saw that in the end where Talia was speaking her intentions that Damien was seeing something was a miss, was wrong. So if he were to come back, I would like him to be with Batman and know, and learn, what is normal than what he lived. And improved the relationship between him and Tim Drake.

BTW, I like Damien's Robin costume (I still love Tim Drake/Robin's OYL costume) because, and it must be because its sorta similar to Smallville's Green Arrow costume, but its sorta like Batman's cowl. Where the addition of the hood with the mask helps out covering the head thus hiding his identity. I like that.

There were some themes, some homages, connections, that I saw with this issue and the whole arc. For one thing was the son theme between Tim Drake and Damien. Tim Drake represents Dick Grayson and Damien may represent Jason Todd. Whereas Tim and Dick are the Batman that was the crimefighter and knew what was the right thing to do even in the dark city of Gotham. Jason and Damien are like Batman if he decided to take the law into his own hands and become the kill and the evil that he fought. This could be proven in the fact that Damien uses Jason Todd's Robin costume to create his own. In a way, if Batman can't save Jason Todd from waht is he, at least he could save Damien from what he could become.

I forgot to mention that another Silver Age element was in this issue. Batman has a new vehicle: the BAT-ROCKET! Yes, the one where he can go to space in. It surprised me, and surprised Damien.

Overall, this issue was good. It had its moments and we got a surprise or two. Again, while it may seem my ratings for each issue seem to say the arc is bad, its not. You just have to read the whole arc as one. And again, it seems the next issue is the finale as it deasl with the Joker's return. So, good issue and I hope Damien returns.

ISSUE RATING: 7/10
OVERALL ARC RATING: 8/10

[LinternaVerde]

i didn't see the "big" surprise...

bad issue

Much Ado About Nothing

[squeekness]

I still liked it. I just don't get why Talia thought Batman would just up and marry her and spawn little batlings for the security of the world. She needs some medication ro something... :p

[SpideyInATree]

It wasn't a terrible arc, but I feel it was a little overrated with all the big talk that it got leading up to it. Honestly, I believe Winick's run was a little better than this. The ending was just a bit predictable but we did get a crazy new element added to the Batman mythos. The question will be, "Will is stick?".

[Kraven]

The next issue is the one I'm most excited about for GM's run. Anyone know if it'll be delayed past Nov. 23rd since this one only just came out?

[SpideyInATree]

I'm really looking forward to that Joker story as well, and in a weird kind of way I'm kind of looking forward to Ostrander's arc as well. I really thought Morrison would deliver the goods but it was just so-so. :csad:

[CConn]

This latest issue was probably my least favorite of the arc. It seemed like it was just missing something to really tie it all together and make it truly awesome.

That said, I still pretty much loved the arc overall, and can't wait for Morrison's following issues. :up:

[CConn]

It wasn't a terrible arc, but I feel it was a little overrated with all the big talk that it got leading up to it. Honestly, I believe Winick's run was a little better than this. The ending was just a bit predictable but we did get a crazy new element added to the Batman mythos. The question will be, "Will is stick?".Winick's run numbered what, 15 issues? We've barely had 4 from Morrison.

And while, I agree, at the moment, Winick's run is better, Winick's first 4-5 issues were damn mediocre.

[Bullseye]

I'm really looking forward to that Joker story as well, and in a weird kind of way I'm kind of looking forward to Ostrander's arc as well. I really thought Morrison would deliver the goods but it was just so-so. :csad:

The only character that Morrison writes well and and it was at best a decent story. Morrison could've have done better or worse. Still, a dissapointing story.

[Kraven]

Well this is news to me... Morrison's Joker issue is pushed back to February, with a newly-colored cover:

http://images.newsarama.com/dccomics/Feb07/b_man/BM_Cv663.jpg
BATMAN #663
Written by Grant Morrison
Art by John Van Fleet
Cover by Andy Kubert
Writer Grant Morrison continues his acclaimed run on BATMAN! After the shocking event of BATMAN #655, in which the Joker was shot point-blank in the face, the Crown Prince of Crime makes his triumphant return to Gotham to wreck havoc on the city and take his revenge on Batman! And as citizens of Gotham City will soon discover, the Joker’s reappearance is no laughing matter.
On sale February 14 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US

[CConn]

Wait...something's gotta be wrong with the solicits. #663 should be Part 4 of Ostrander's fill-in story.

[Kraven]

I think the first part was pushed to #659, which was originally the story above. So that way the story would end on #662, and Morrison's issue would come next.

[CConn]

Yeah, that's probably what's going on. We're still missing the solicit for Part 4 of the fill in, though.

[JTStarkiller]

So Joker's appearance in the next Dini issue doesn't take place after the point blank gunshot?

[Nightwing]

Issues #659 through #662 will be the Ostrander/ Mandrake arc. Morrison & John Van Fleet do the Joker story in #663. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=91064)
DC Comics announces that the next four issues of BATMAN will have a change of contents, with the 4-part story “Grotesk,” written by John Ostrander and illustrated by Tom Mandrake moving up an issue to begin in BATMAN #659.

Each of these issues will keep their original Diamond item codes and instore dates.

Regular series writer Grant Morrison will return in February with BATMAN #663, featuring the story previously scheduled to appear in BATMAN #659, illustrated by guest artist John Van Fleet.

• BATMAN #659 (SEP060191), featuring part one of the 4-part story “Grotesk,” is scheduled to arrive in stores on November 29.

• BATMAN #660 (OCT060154), featuring part two of “Grotesk,” is scheduled to arrive in stores on December 13.

• BATMAN #661 (OCT060155), featuring part three of “Grotesk,” is scheduled to arrive in stores on December 27.

• BATMAN #662 (NOV060174), featuring part four of “Grotesk,” is scheduled to arrive in stores on January 10.

Writer Grant Morrison returns in February with BATMAN #663 (DEC060180), illustrated by guest artist John Van Fleet. In this issue, the Joker makes his triumphant return to Gotham City to take revenge on Batman! BATMAN #663 will be solicited in the December Previews (Volume XVI #12) and is scheduled to arrive in stores on February 14.

Because of these changes, DC will make BATMAN #659-662 returnable at a later date.

[Punch]

Wow, what a pointless story. Boring, poorly written, and just plain stupid. GM's worst by far.

[Βatman]

That should be cool.

[Kraven]

I wonder if Andy Kubert is having trouble with the art or something.

[hippie_hunter]

Winick's run numbered what, 15 issues? We've barely had 4 from Morrison.

And while, I agree, at the moment, Winick's run is better, Winick's first 4-5 issues were damn mediocre.

Batman #650 makes up for the first mediocre issues and it certainly did pick up.

And look on the bright side, at least Winick didn't have Robin or Nightwing turn out to be gay or end up with AIDS.

[Mee]

Who's John Van Fleet?

[SpideyInATree]

Who's John Van Fleet?

The artist on Batman # 663.

:oldrazz:

[Mee]

Ba dum tsh!


Now I must stoop to google! Google I say! :cmad: :csad:

[Nightwing]

Who's John Van Fleet?
He's worked on graphic novels such as Batman: The Ankh, and Batman: Cast Shadows. As well as Batman: The Chalice with Chuck Dixon.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7534/batmanchalicevt6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://imageshack.us/transload.php)

[Mee]

Haven't read em, but that cover looks good. :up:

[CConn]

Batman #650 makes up for the first mediocre issues and it certainly did pick up.Oh, of course. I loved Winick's run as a whole. I was just trying to illustrate how pointless it can be to compare Morrison's run to Winick's when Morrison has yet to write anywhere near as many issues as Winick did.

[Morgoth]

Well, I finally picked up the new issue today 'cause I haven't had a chance to get to my comic shop these past two weeks, and I loved it!

I can't wait to see the next story with the Joker!!!

I gotta' admit, I didn't like the kid, but I liked his "Robin" costume somewhat.:woot:

Not a bad story, all in all. One of the best Batman stories I've read in awhile, it was so nice to have Andy's artwork on Batman, there was one shot of him in this latest issue where he looked like one of Dick Giordano's drawings of Batman. :batty: :up:

[CConn]

The Joker issue was pushed back to February.